Speaker 1: Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello Call It Crew, and welcome to a new episode
Speaker 2: of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, Hi, how are you? I'm in the summer.
Speaker 1: You're in summer saying? Yeah, oh, this is the home
Speaker 1: edition for me. This is my first time at home
Speaker 1: talking to you. It's coming live from my bedroom.
Speaker 2: From your bedroom. I love it, intimate, sexy, we're bringing
Speaker 2: the sexist episode. No, when I say summer, I don't
Speaker 2: mean like relaxing summer vibes. I mean like kids, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you mean that moment when you realize that they're
Speaker 1: out of You're so excited for them to be out
Speaker 1: of school, You're so excited for summer mode, and you
Speaker 1: have like that first couple of days where you're like,
Speaker 1: I don't need to wake up for anything, I don't
Speaker 1: need to do that morning rush, I don't need to
Speaker 1: do anything. And then it's day three or four and
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, but what do I need to do
Speaker 1: with them now?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Where do they go? Who's going to entertain them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like where are your parents?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Where are your parents?
Speaker 3: There's there someone to take care of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's taking care of you? It's not me?
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I signed Hayden up for every camp under this some
Speaker 2: of them I don't even know. I'm like, what is that?
Speaker 2: Can't you know like a horror movie camp? Great? Sign
Speaker 2: her up?
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 2: Nine to nine pm? Perfect?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I signed her for so many camps and then this
Speaker 2: week I did not have her any in any camps,
Speaker 2: and next week I don't And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was because I was like thinking to myself, Oh,
Speaker 2: this will be so nice. She'll be at home. We
Speaker 2: can we can make smores.
Speaker 3: We can like guess how long it takes to make smores?
Speaker 2: Five minutes?
Speaker 3: And how many hours in the day?
Speaker 2: Now not many hours.
Speaker 3: No, there's like twelve hours of the day experiments to
Speaker 3: make smores. What do you do with the rest of
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: That is the problem in my mind. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: s'mores right. And it's like ten am this morning, and
Speaker 2: she was like I hate today? What are we doing?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god, Like what camp? Is
Speaker 2: there an emergency camp?
Speaker 3: Uh huh? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Just to shove them in.
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Are your kiddos too old for camp.
Speaker 1: No, they're all in camp. They're all in camp. I
Speaker 1: love camp. They don't all love camp. But I didn't
Speaker 1: love camp as a kid, so I have compassion for
Speaker 1: their not loving camp. But we finally did find a
Speaker 1: camp that they love, and so now I'm very excited.
Speaker 3: About that camp. But Josie goes begrudgingly to camp.
Speaker 2: What doesn't she like about it?
Speaker 3: She's a homebody. You know, there's four of them.
Speaker 1: They all have very distinct personalities, and Josie would definitely
Speaker 1: be the homebody. She's really happy to just chill. She
Speaker 1: likes to, you know, I know, do the things that
Speaker 1: happen at home. But this week, well, this past week,
Speaker 1: I mean it's well, you know, it was full of
Speaker 1: firsts for me because this past week was the first
Speaker 1: week of having a child who technically as a young man.
Speaker 1: M hmm, he has a driver's license, Tamilla. He has
Speaker 1: a license to drive, and he's using it.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I my soul left my body for a second,
Speaker 2: is back in because I remember Luke so little still
Speaker 2: and the fact that he might be behind the wheel.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, I don't how do you do? Tell me everything?
Speaker 3: All right, so here's what I sort of feel like.
Speaker 1: So after going through this first week, there's the first
Speaker 1: feelings that are just excitement and really really dipping into
Speaker 1: what I remember getting a license feeling like, which was
Speaker 1: sking great.
Speaker 3: It was like independence.
Speaker 1: I mean, the minute I could get my license, I
Speaker 1: got it, I was like, the world is my oyster.
Speaker 3: I was ready to read those wings and fly. And
Speaker 3: was I completely responsible?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: But was that okay with me in that moment? Yes?
Speaker 3: And did my parents need to know about it?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: There were little things I was keeping to.
Speaker 1: Myself, but I was free is what I want? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could pick up my friends, I could go do
Speaker 1: my stuff. It was fantastic. So I could really feel
Speaker 1: that for him and how exciting that was. And I
Speaker 1: didn't want to clip his wings at the same time
Speaker 1: that I felt total panic. Yes, because just like you said,
Speaker 1: he's my baby, but he's not a baby, he's a
Speaker 1: young man. So it felt the most like bear with
Speaker 1: me in this analogy. It felt like the beginning of
Speaker 1: a new relationship where you don't want to seem like
Speaker 1: too needy but not too independent. So I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be calling him all the time like hey, what
Speaker 1: time did you leave and where are you going? And
Speaker 1: can you text me when you leave the place and
Speaker 1: then text me when you get to the place. But
Speaker 1: I also didn't want to seem like I didn't care,
Speaker 1: and I did feel like I needed to know that
Speaker 1: information to also just like regulate my nervous system.
Speaker 2: Are you tracking him? Like? Do you can you find?
Speaker 2: Can you track him so that you can see where
Speaker 2: he's going?
Speaker 1: Okay, so we all share our locations with each other
Speaker 1: and our family. Yes, I don't. I don't honestly look
Speaker 1: at that very much. I sort of depend on good
Speaker 1: old fashioned communication. I mean, I get that I could
Speaker 1: find him if I wanted to, but I would rather
Speaker 1: work on the relationship piece where he understands that I
Speaker 1: care where he is and there's a responsibility in our
Speaker 1: relationship for him to let me know, as opposed to
Speaker 1: me just pulling out my phone and seeing a moving dot.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I just I think that I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have to by the way I think. I think that's
Speaker 2: the way to do it. However, I do feel like
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in minority report and when they're driving,
Speaker 2: I will be like like Matt, don't talk to me. Okay,
Speaker 2: she's on Ventura Boulevard, she's just past the McDonald's. It's like, yes,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I won't be able to track
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: By the way, little known fact because it was a
Speaker 1: blink and you might miss it moment, but I was
Speaker 1: a helicopter pilot in minority report. Doesn't matter right now.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it later. Actually, there's nothing to talk about.
Speaker 1: It was a blink and you would miss it.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the internet misses nothing, so social media
Speaker 2: bring that up place for us right now.
Speaker 1: I will tell the story later on because I was
Speaker 1: in a scene with Tom Cruise and there's a funny
Speaker 1: story from that.
Speaker 3: Anyways, we digress.
Speaker 2: By the way, you can't really digress. We will let you,
Speaker 2: but we're coming back to what Tom.
Speaker 3: We will come back to it. Oh, all the Tom
Speaker 3: Cruise stories. Okay.
Speaker 1: So that's how it's been this week. And I'm really
Speaker 1: proud of him.
Speaker 3: And I'm really proud of myself.
Speaker 1: And it also happened to be a week where Christopher
Speaker 1: it was a little divide and conquer a week for
Speaker 1: our family. Christopher took the two older girls even Poppy
Speaker 1: on a incredible adventure whitewater rafting, so they were completely offline.
Speaker 1: So actually it really only was me that was, you know,
Speaker 1: checking with him. And I definitely feel like as I'm
Speaker 1: a little Christopher's far better at you know, he believes
Speaker 1: in that, like that play based childhood and like, you know,
Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna slip and fall, they're gonna make
Speaker 1: mistakes and we're here to like help and I can
Speaker 1: run a little more. I can futurize a little bit more.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that I'm I.
Speaker 3: Don't feel anxious.
Speaker 1: I don't like worry, but I definitely think about what
Speaker 1: could happen a little bit more than maybe he does.
Speaker 1: So it's been interesting because again it's the beginning of it,
Speaker 1: and I don't want him. I don't want Luke to
Speaker 1: feel stress for me. I want him to feel excitement
Speaker 1: and also expectation of doing like doing this the right way.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I have a question because does it help you,
Speaker 2: because my fear is that my kids will be learning
Speaker 2: to drive possibly in Los Angeles? Does it help you
Speaker 2: that you have like two roads in your town, like
Speaker 2: a road in and out.
Speaker 1: There's just things I can rely on from you.
Speaker 2: I hope, Like I'm being honest, though.
Speaker 3: The one blinking light in the center of town.
Speaker 2: Is exactly like it he's gonna be. There's only one
Speaker 2: light to deal with. Does it help that you live
Speaker 2: in a smaller town? Honestly? Does it help that? Because
Speaker 2: imagine him learning. Would you feel differently if he was learning,
Speaker 2: if you had just got his license and he was
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, would you feel any different?
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I understand what you're saying, and yes,
Speaker 1: on some level, there's there's a little more room to
Speaker 1: practice in like a one lane street type situation that
Speaker 1: he said, We do have highways.
Speaker 2: Around here, So is he allowed all this?
Speaker 1: They connect because they connect people in places. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: I think that it. It feels like the system that
Speaker 1: the government or the DMV, the Department of Motor Vehicles
Speaker 1: has laid out is probably a good one, right. They
Speaker 1: ask for certain things of them, And so he got
Speaker 1: his parent and then he was able to drive with us.
Speaker 1: So we've been driving with him for the past six months.
Speaker 3: And he's a good driver.
Speaker 1: So I mean, although that's a whole other thing too,
Speaker 1: because when you're in the drivers when you're in the
Speaker 1: passenger seat.
Speaker 3: I was definitely guilty of a lot of mom like.
Speaker 2: Who's worse? Who was the worst? You or Christopher were
Speaker 2: worse in the passenger seat.
Speaker 3: Oh, we're gonna have to have Luke come on as
Speaker 3: a guest to tell.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, whould Christopher pick?
Speaker 1: I would actually say, I would give this one to Crystal.
Speaker 1: I think that crystaler drove with him more. They would
Speaker 1: go on longer like road trips and he would drive.
Speaker 3: I mean, thank you, Christopher.
Speaker 1: I think Christopher did a really really great job of
Speaker 1: driving with him. And I mean I drove with them
Speaker 1: all that I could, but it wasn't I don't think
Speaker 1: as much as him. And then he took real driver's
Speaker 1: lessons with the you know, of course driving lesson people.
Speaker 2: When I first moved to Los Angeles, I could not
Speaker 2: drive here. I didn't have my driver's.
Speaker 3: Life right and also opposite side of the road.
Speaker 2: Yes, very different. And I took the bus for the
Speaker 2: first like four years that I lived here, and then
Speaker 2: I finally because driving lessons are very expensive, so I
Speaker 2: started my driving lesson and I remember driving with this
Speaker 2: guy in England. It's very very serious, right, and here
Speaker 2: here it's I think it's serious too. But the guy
Speaker 2: I was taking driving lessons with. I remember we were
Speaker 2: going down the street and he was like, okay, take
Speaker 2: a left to take a right, and I'm like, where
Speaker 2: are we going? He had me pull into a drive
Speaker 2: through because he was hungry. Part of my lesson was
Speaker 2: going through in and out drive through. This is not
Speaker 2: a joke. He ordered food and I was like, I
Speaker 2: guess we're doing this. He was like leaning over me,
Speaker 2: like a milkshake, and I'm like, okay, one milkshake. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I guess this is how you learn a drive in
Speaker 2: the US. You gotta do that. That was part of
Speaker 2: my driving lesson. And to be honest, once I passed,
Speaker 2: I was like, I know how to go through the
Speaker 2: drive through. Once I passed, it was still terrifying. I mean,
Speaker 2: they're freeways in it's the wild West. In Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: I always think of clueless.
Speaker 2: It is like clueless it is I have had when
Speaker 2: you're pulling in and the freeway is seventeen lanes wide
Speaker 2: on one side, you're screaming. Yeah, you're full on screaming
Speaker 2: and you're praying, and you make it through and then
Speaker 2: you're like great. Yes, that was my driving lesson experience
Speaker 2: in the state. It's very different England, I will tell you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the new thing that came up this week
Speaker 1: was just again, these things just jump right out in
Speaker 1: front of you. Didn't expect this one. He will be
Speaker 1: driving other people, right, So the driver's license has restrictions
Speaker 1: about who. But then you can drive certain people over eighteen,
Speaker 1: under eteen blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: And then you think, whoa. I mean, do you need
Speaker 3: to do a.
Speaker 1: Whole interview with a passenger to make sure that they're
Speaker 1: not impulsive, they're not distracting? There, you're a good co pilot,
Speaker 1: because now I don't have to just trust my kid.
Speaker 3: I gotta trust the best.
Speaker 2: Be honest. Is there anyone that you're like, listen, you're
Speaker 2: not to Bob that is not that passenger. Princess is
Speaker 2: being a princess somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Luckily there's no Bob, because I'm not sure there are
Speaker 1: any Bobs under the age of like forty five. It
Speaker 1: was a Bob.
Speaker 2: There's a Bob in every general he's.
Speaker 3: Taken a Bob. I want to know why Bob's.
Speaker 2: Bob in the car. We have a lot of questions
Speaker 2: about Bob, but maybe.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, is he taking a Will or a Jake? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there are Wills and Jakes, and I think that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna have to now get to them.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be there's gonna be some protocol. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: need to get to know these friends a little more
Speaker 1: than I do.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, what's the cell phone situation. Here's what I
Speaker 2: would want to do. I'd want to call to make
Speaker 2: sure they're okay, but I don't want to call because
Speaker 2: I don't want them picking up the phone.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: We had a huge, huge, huge thunderstrom yesterday, like again,
Speaker 1: buckets and buckets and buckets of water coming out of
Speaker 1: the sky, and I thought he's on the road. It was,
Speaker 1: it was actually, it was definitely my most worried moment because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's driven in rain before. It's okay, but it's
Speaker 3: like you just want to know it's hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, so I had that moment I thought should I
Speaker 1: call him or is calling him going to be distracting?
Speaker 3: That's when you pull out the minority life.
Speaker 2: That's when you were like, that's when you do this
Speaker 2: is the dots and you're like, the storm's moving this way,
Speaker 2: the cars moving this way. You know, you want to
Speaker 2: know how many lightning strikes there are? Yeah, no, that's
Speaker 2: what that's when you got a minority report it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been real interesting, but I got I have
Speaker 1: to say on the positive note again going back to
Speaker 1: how I felt, it's such a huge moment in your independence,
Speaker 1: and it's so important, like trust, right, you've been talking
Speaker 1: about your whole life with them, and we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before. It's the whole thing, right, and been building
Speaker 1: your and moving your children towards independence and adulthood. Is
Speaker 1: like we've been doing things with them for so long,
Speaker 1: and they're going to have to do them on their own,
Speaker 1: and and you're going to have to trust that they can.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's why it's been a big week.
Speaker 2: Thank God. Honestly hearing this, I'm not ready for this.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to have my three year old who loves
Speaker 2: Buzz light Year and my seven year old I do.
Speaker 2: I have been there've been camps this summer. We've also
Speaker 2: been in and you know this when you have little
Speaker 2: kids more so than anybody, a lot of birthday parties.
Speaker 2: I am hitting up every birthday party in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I talked to you on Saturday. You sounded exhausted.
Speaker 2: I hit up to that day. But my social life
Speaker 2: arc is kids' birthday parties. And luckily, I really love
Speaker 2: all the parents that I have to socialize with for
Speaker 2: these parties, and their kids are wonderful. But we started
Speaker 2: to have this conversation at one of the birthday parties.
Speaker 2: We were at about the pressure of throwing a party,
Speaker 2: and I blame social me for this. I blame reality
Speaker 2: TV shows for this. Even though I do like reality TV.
Speaker 2: The pressure to throw a birthday party from when we
Speaker 2: were kids to now is really hard and I think
Speaker 2: we gotta forget it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, take the thut off the gas? Are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Just like the fact that everything needs to be instagram worthy?
Speaker 2: Do we need fifty fucking balloon arches? Do I need
Speaker 2: a balloon arch to go to the bathroom?
Speaker 1: And you know they're not good for the environment, They're
Speaker 1: not good for anyone here.
Speaker 2: No, I know, but you can't. Also, you know, everyone's
Speaker 2: there's some sort of organic you know, balloon arch that
Speaker 2: you know will help feed a tree, so that you
Speaker 2: can't it's not even an excuse anymore. But like, I
Speaker 2: don't need literally a balloon arch to go pee. It's fine.
Speaker 2: I don't need one over the toilet and then the sink. No,
Speaker 2: there is a faking balloon arch in every And by
Speaker 2: the way, I've been guilty. Have I done a balloon
Speaker 2: arch in my time? I've done a couple. I'm guilty
Speaker 2: of the arches. But did my mom do a balloon arch? No,
Speaker 2: she tied some balloons together and she threw them over there.
Speaker 2: And like we both had the tradition because I stole
Speaker 2: it from you that we send them up to the
Speaker 2: scene and that's cute, but like it's it's out of control.
Speaker 2: Now you have the characters. And by the way, I've
Speaker 2: had the character show up. I've had Mickey show up
Speaker 2: to the party.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's too much. It's too much, it's
Speaker 3: too much.
Speaker 1: I definitely definitely succumbed the pressure to have that kind
Speaker 1: of party. Also, I kind of I enjoyed it. I did,
Speaker 1: I kind of liked it and then and then I didn't.
Speaker 1: So I feel like as we moved through the years,
Speaker 1: I definitely dressed up as Elsa myself.
Speaker 3: And I have Yeah, I have photos.
Speaker 2: Guess who's gonna be buzz light Year in August.
Speaker 1: Me?
Speaker 3: By the way, guess who's not cute as Elsa?
Speaker 2: Me?
Speaker 3: You can't, Jessica.
Speaker 1: No, I'm going to post. I'm gonna post them. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give you a visual. That wig does mean no favors.
Speaker 2: Would you wear the wig you wore them? You're blonde?
Speaker 3: Does my hair look like Elsa's?
Speaker 1: No, I needed like the big it was the white flock.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, those things are a fire hazard. By the way,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what they're made of.
Speaker 1: But Josie was three or something, and she definitely I
Speaker 1: actually don't.
Speaker 3: I actually think she might have thought she was part Elsa.
Speaker 3: She would just stand there and like speak to the water.
Speaker 2: Anyway, the pressure for birthday parties, yes, too much. I
Speaker 2: think we got to do away with we use simplicity
Speaker 2: back because by the way, I have thrown I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say this really quick. I thrown birthday parties that feel
Speaker 2: like way too extravagant and the kids at the end
Speaker 2: of the day end up playing Chase. They just want
Speaker 2: to play tag, some pizza, some music, call it a day.
Speaker 3: Absolutely true.
Speaker 1: You know, I was actually think about it because I
Speaker 1: was thinking about Luke driving and I was sort of
Speaker 1: thinking about what. You know, you start with this little
Speaker 1: baby in your arms, and it's just and he was
Speaker 1: our first, and there's just all the feelings and you
Speaker 1: have all these ideas about what kind of parent you're
Speaker 1: gonna be and everything else, and then through parenting you
Speaker 1: realize there's some things that you expected from yourself and
Speaker 1: some things that surprise you. Do you feel like you
Speaker 1: have a parenting style? Do you feel like you have
Speaker 1: an idea of how you like.
Speaker 3: Move through parenting?
Speaker 2: No, which is a problem because I want to label it.
Speaker 2: I love I love a label. I want to be
Speaker 2: like I'm a you know, I think I'm all of
Speaker 2: the labels that you can be. I feel like sometimes
Speaker 2: my parenting is not consistent, which is probably not great. No,
Speaker 2: I don't. Honestly, sometimes I just feel like I'm freaking
Speaker 2: winging it take me hour by hour, Like I don't
Speaker 2: know that's okay today and then tomorrow? Am I getting
Speaker 2: trouble for that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Like I don't know that's that's the move?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 2: What? Get you want to have chocolate for dinner? Like
Speaker 2: I don't have it. I don't care anymore. It's fine,
Speaker 2: It's fine. And then tomorrow when you ask me for dessert,
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you out of your goddamn when asking
Speaker 2: for dessert? What is this okay?
Speaker 1: But that all seems completely okay as long as you
Speaker 1: communicate that, right, I mean, I think that as long
Speaker 1: as our kids, I mean, I think we actually probably
Speaker 1: are more consistent than You're, probably more consistent than than
Speaker 1: you think you are, and your kids get to know
Speaker 1: you so they know that when today it's chocolate for dinner,
Speaker 1: it's because you know X, Y or Z was happening.
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I feel like I have. I feel like.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not authoritative, Like it's not like my way
Speaker 1: or the highway, although I definitely was far more.
Speaker 3: Rigid when I first started parenting, like in.
Speaker 1: My ideas of what was right or wrong, or even
Speaker 1: the fact that I thought there was a right or wrong.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't feel that way anymore. And I'm definitely
Speaker 3: not permissive. So I feel like I'm in the middle.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: I love my kids so much and I want to
Speaker 1: have a great time with them, and I want to
Speaker 1: raise them and to being like young adults that like
Speaker 1: I want to.
Speaker 3: I want to hang out.
Speaker 2: Like I want.
Speaker 3: I want them to get older and want to keep
Speaker 3: coming back.
Speaker 1: And that being said, I don't want to give up
Speaker 1: any of my own, you know, my integrity or my
Speaker 1: ideas of what I.
Speaker 3: Think is best for them.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's something that that comes into
Speaker 1: my mind a lot, like how do you parent in
Speaker 1: a way that that sets your boundaries at the same
Speaker 1: time that allows for the play and the fun and
Speaker 1: the the the yummy, the part that's like exciting and
Speaker 1: fun and adventurous and.
Speaker 3: Not full of a ton of rules.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard because for me, this is our struggle.
Speaker 2: For me for sure, because growing up, my mom felt
Speaker 2: very much like my best friend and I always wanted
Speaker 2: that relationship again. When Hayden was born, I was like,
Speaker 2: I know what this is going to be, like, She's
Speaker 2: going to be my little buddy. That's how I was,
Speaker 2: and she came out a completely different person to me, obviously,
Speaker 2: and it was I have to say it was an
Speaker 2: adjustment because I felt like, Okay, this relationship is going
Speaker 2: to be different. And by the way, I've realized with
Speaker 2: time that my mom probably should have had more boundaries
Speaker 2: with me than she had. I was a little bit
Speaker 2: too much her buddy. I don't think I should have
Speaker 2: been maybe privy to certain things that were happening, for example,
Speaker 2: like in my you know, I was very privy to
Speaker 2: money problems we had and when I was very young,
Speaker 2: and I think that it was stressed me out. But
Speaker 2: I think she shared a lot and it made me
Speaker 2: feel close with her. But then I am so I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm really having a hard time a little
Speaker 2: bit loving that relationship I had with my mom my
Speaker 2: kid is completely different to how I was, and then
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how it's going to work for
Speaker 2: me but keep that closeness. So it's sort of a
Speaker 2: it's a daily struggle for me a little bit. And
Speaker 2: I that's what I'm saying, Like, fucking it's our by
Speaker 2: hour sometimes I feel like it's our by hour with
Speaker 2: both of them. And by the way, what's so surprising
Speaker 2: is is that really truly surprising, and that I'm sure
Speaker 2: any mom missing to this can attest to this. Your
Speaker 2: kids are so different, and so the way I'm parenting
Speaker 2: one works for one and doesn't work for the other,
Speaker 2: and so that adjustment back and forth and then having
Speaker 2: trying to not look like you're favoring one over the
Speaker 2: other or you're you're punishing one in a different way
Speaker 2: over the other. It's all I'm learning on the job.
Speaker 2: That's what's hard about parenting. Your learning on the job
Speaker 2: every day. And I want to do well. I want
Speaker 2: it to be success. I want to get I'm the
Speaker 2: responsible for their childhoods want them to have amazing memories.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, who knows how I'm doing speaking of
Speaker 2: you treat them differently ultimately, what how that playsut when
Speaker 2: they get a little older, is you start hearing in stereo?
Speaker 3: Well, well that's not fair. Well she got that or
Speaker 3: he got that.
Speaker 2: Oh you think that's happening when they're old, that's happening now.
Speaker 3: Well but that was right for him, and that you
Speaker 3: know that's not nice for you.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it is a time you gotta be It's
Speaker 1: you gotta think on your feet. You gotta think on
Speaker 1: your feet. But I do feel like it's okay to
Speaker 1: think on your feet and have things be different again.
Speaker 1: I go back to like relationship, like if you're honest,
Speaker 1: if you are if you're if you're saying when you're
Speaker 1: frustrated and you're letting something happen because you don't have
Speaker 1: the bandwidth, or if you are you know, tired, or
Speaker 1: if you're full of energy. I mean all the different
Speaker 1: things that you can be in a day. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're not robots, right. We have an idea of how
Speaker 1: we want this to go, but that doesn't always it
Speaker 1: doesn't always go like that, So we have to be adjustable.
Speaker 1: And and I do say that to them a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, this is my first time parent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm going to.
Speaker 1: Get it right sometimes, and I'm going to get it
Speaker 1: wrong sometimes, and I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Just of the right to walk him back right.
Speaker 1: Like I may make a decision about something and say
Speaker 1: this is okay, or we can do this, and then
Speaker 1: tomorrow I may feel differently, and I will explain that,
Speaker 1: I'll explain why, because I do think that's what's amazing
Speaker 1: about family, Like I think it's so incredible.
Speaker 3: Is that you're a team.
Speaker 1: You're a team that's bound no matter what, by the
Speaker 1: fact that you're family. And that's an incredible, incredible thing.
Speaker 1: So I do try to remind them, like we always
Speaker 1: team family, and so you cannot like what's happening on
Speaker 1: a team, or you can think you know expart Z,
Speaker 1: but ultimately you're stuck with that team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're stuck with me, So I don't know what
Speaker 2: to tell you.
Speaker 3: Buck up, Buttercup.
Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna use that. This is why, this is
Speaker 2: why I love you, Capshaw, I will use that too.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go home and be like, listen, team the
Speaker 2: leader doesn't know what they're doing today. But you're on
Speaker 2: the team.
Speaker 3: You made the team, and you can't get.
Speaker 2: On the team, you can't get off. You might get benched.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure why. I'll explain tomorrow exactly. I'll have
Speaker 2: more idea what's going on tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I feel like the heading, the heading of this conversation
Speaker 1: about Luke and getting his driver's license should have been
Speaker 1: buckle up, Buttercup, welcome to parenting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, cool up?
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2: We have some We have some incredible people that have
Speaker 2: written us today. I love them so our episode.
Speaker 1: By the way, I like to say that I'm very,
Speaker 1: very grateful for all of these incredible people that write
Speaker 1: in like truly to trust us with these questions and
Speaker 1: to be excited to write them.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it's really wonderful.
Speaker 2: I want to get into the first one because this
Speaker 2: person has very similar ages to my kids. So Jess
Speaker 2: wrote in and she said, my husband and I have
Speaker 2: two adorable boys, ages two and seven. We are talking
Speaker 2: about a third child, but we can't decide if it's
Speaker 2: the right decision. How did y'all both know your families
Speaker 2: were complete? I can answer this very easily. My family
Speaker 2: is complete with just two kids, because I know myself
Speaker 2: as a mom, and I know the anxiety that I have,
Speaker 2: and I think I would be a better mom to
Speaker 2: two kids than three. I think that it would overwhelm
Speaker 2: me to the point where, yeah, I just don't think
Speaker 2: I would be as good of a mom. And I
Speaker 2: think that Matt and I are both feel that way,
Speaker 2: and I feel very complete with two myself. You have
Speaker 2: four those so this is a different answer for you.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it well.
Speaker 1: I think that the answer is that it's a very
Speaker 1: personal answer, and you have to The first thing you
Speaker 1: can do is be really really touch and really really
Speaker 1: honest with yourself and with your partner. And I do
Speaker 1: think it's one of those things where you both have
Speaker 1: to be on board. You know, you hear a lot
Speaker 1: of times partners say, you know one would like another
Speaker 1: or you know whatever are you so are you hear
Speaker 1: people say you know I didn't want any or I
Speaker 1: only wanted one and.
Speaker 3: We had three. But I do think, you know, you
Speaker 3: have to do it's right for you.
Speaker 1: But I obviously it is far far better when you
Speaker 1: have both parents or multiple parent families, even you're all
Speaker 1: on the same page, because I think that it you
Speaker 1: up for success. For me, I came from a big family,
Speaker 1: so I think that it was very natural and I
Speaker 1: didn't feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 3: I didn't feel overwhelmed by more.
Speaker 1: And Luke is three years older than Eve, and then
Speaker 1: Poppy is only twenty months younger than Eve. So we
Speaker 1: went like boom boom with Luke and a break then Eve,
Speaker 1: and then I got pregnant when.
Speaker 3: Eve was ten months old.
Speaker 1: So we were in it, and I don't think that
Speaker 1: I thought about having a fourth. And then Poppy was
Speaker 1: then around like two, and I thought, I think I
Speaker 1: really want a fourth. I said to Christopher, what do
Speaker 1: you think and He's like, yeah, I think that would
Speaker 1: be fantastic.
Speaker 3: And then we.
Speaker 1: Sort of opened up the possibility for that to happen,
Speaker 1: and I got pregnant and I was so excited and
Speaker 1: I had never had any issues before getting pregnant. I
Speaker 1: was very lucky and I'm very grateful. And then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, at my ten week appointment went in
Speaker 1: for the ultrasound, was by myself totally unsuspecting, and there
Speaker 1: was no heartbeat, and.
Speaker 3: That was.
Speaker 4: Horrible.
Speaker 1: It was the most shocking and deeply, deeply sad thing,
Speaker 1: and I really honestly couldn't believe it. I could not
Speaker 1: believe it. So when I found out that there there
Speaker 1: was no heartbeat, and when I found out that I
Speaker 1: was not going to have a baby, I was not
Speaker 1: going to have that baby. I didn't know what happened next.
Speaker 1: It had never happened to me before, so I didn't
Speaker 1: know if that meant I was going to get my period,
Speaker 1: if I was how this baby was going to pass
Speaker 1: through my maddie. I had no idea, and that was
Speaker 1: when I then and again, your brain is like not working,
Speaker 1: no of it's making sense, And obviously, you know, the
Speaker 1: biggest part was then because you don't know when it's
Speaker 1: going to happen. And so I remember calling Christopher and
Speaker 1: I remember like, just do you say it over the phone?
Speaker 1: Do you wait till you're together there's just such deep sadness,
Speaker 1: and then sharing with him that that's what was happening,
Speaker 1: and then feeling that together, just that deep sadness and
Speaker 1: disappointment and disbelief. In a lot of ways, there was disbelief,
Speaker 1: and then us going to the doctor and sort of saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: so what happens next? And I didn't like, I said,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't know if that meant I
Speaker 1: was going to get my period or what was going
Speaker 1: to happen. And then she was very the best doctor
Speaker 1: in the whole world. I love her so much. She
Speaker 1: delivered three of our babies. And she said, well, what
Speaker 1: happens next is you have a DNC because that needs
Speaker 1: to be cleared out of your body. And these are
Speaker 1: the steps that we're going to take.
Speaker 2: And that's healthcare. That's called health care.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And I was very very very fortunate. I was very
Speaker 1: very fortunate that I had a doctor who was so
Speaker 1: compassionate and took her time to explain to me what
Speaker 1: was going on and to teach me, and then to
Speaker 1: be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,
Speaker 1: and that I had a partner that was there to
Speaker 1: be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,
Speaker 1: and then you know, life carried on, you know, and
Speaker 1: I had I had a chance to take care of
Speaker 1: myself and my body and my relationship and my other children,
Speaker 1: and it was really incredible. And you know what was
Speaker 1: also very strange to me saying this now because I
Speaker 1: feel so differently about it obviously, is that I, all
Speaker 1: this sudden was very aware that people don't talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that women have miscarriages all the time, every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we don't talk about that. And I didn't talk
Speaker 1: about it. I didn't talk about it at work. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I talked about it with my close friends. But I
Speaker 1: didn't go to work the next day before I had
Speaker 1: a DNC, by the way, so I knew that I
Speaker 1: was still that I still had this body. And I
Speaker 1: went to work the next day and I didn't tell anybody,
Speaker 1: and I went to work with that feeling and with
Speaker 1: that knowledge. And you know, I think that looking back
Speaker 1: on it now, again, I'm not sure exactly how, but
Speaker 1: I think that the people who are in relationship with you,
Speaker 1: whether they're at work or in your family, if you
Speaker 1: can and if it's okay with you, I think it
Speaker 1: actually should be talked about so that people can help
Speaker 1: take care of you, so that maybe at work that day,
Speaker 1: people could have been a little more even more, you know,
Speaker 1: understanding or had a chance at understanding what it was
Speaker 1: that I was going through, because it is total. It
Speaker 1: is a total body experience, a mind and body experience.
Speaker 1: And anyways, I do think that I do think it
Speaker 1: should be talked about and that it would allow for
Speaker 1: people to understand where people are coming from. And everybody
Speaker 1: wants to deal with it differently, right And by the way,
Speaker 1: if you don't want.
Speaker 3: To talk about it, I think that that's okay too.
Speaker 1: It really is what is personal to you and what
Speaker 1: you need in that moment from your community.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that The thing that I'm very aware
Speaker 1: of in my own particular story is that I tell
Speaker 1: the story with the perspective of having had three children
Speaker 1: already and then not that I knew it, but I
Speaker 1: would go on to have another and again, because people
Speaker 1: don't often share these stories, we don't know what other
Speaker 1: people are going through, and there are so many stories
Speaker 1: of people who endure miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage that
Speaker 1: don't already have children or their story isn't that they
Speaker 1: go on to have another child. And sometimes that means
Speaker 1: that other things happen, and sometimes that means that they
Speaker 1: end up having their children through surrogates, or they end
Speaker 1: up adopting, or they end up fostering, or they end
Speaker 1: up becoming incredibly close and having an insanely unique relationship
Speaker 1: with a friend's child or a relatives child. You know,
Speaker 1: we all have different stories, and I'm very mindful in
Speaker 1: telling mine to be very clear that mine is only
Speaker 1: from my perspective. And the sadness that I felt was
Speaker 1: my sadness, and it was unique to me in a
Speaker 1: lot of moments, defied reason because again I had children.
Speaker 3: But what I realized in going through it was.
Speaker 1: The very very sharp pain of loss like that, it's
Speaker 1: a very very unique sense of loss. So my heart
Speaker 1: is with any and all the women, the partners, the
Speaker 1: family members that deal with it, because it is.
Speaker 3: Truly very very hard.
Speaker 1: And then, you know, we got through that, and then
Speaker 1: I had never been more convinced. I was like absolutely
Speaker 1: there as a fourth and then I did end up
Speaker 1: getting pregnant not soon thereafter, and then I had a
Speaker 1: very different relationship with the first trimester.
Speaker 2: Obviously, At what point did you feel like you could relax.
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely I loved being pregnant. I really
Speaker 1: really really loved being pregnant. So I would not say
Speaker 1: that me and my fourth pregnancy was fraught by any stretch.
Speaker 1: And that first trimester, I was very mindful. I was mindful.
Speaker 1: I was mindful of my expectation of you know, all
Speaker 1: the other pregnancies. I you know, I just everyone crossed
Speaker 1: my mind that you wouldn't I wouldn't have a baby
Speaker 1: in my arms, you know, forty weeks later, and in
Speaker 1: this situation, I was very much aware that that could
Speaker 1: not be the story, and so I was cautious, you know,
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: I wasn't dressed rehearsing tragedy. I wasn't thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is going to be terrible, or this is going
Speaker 1: to happen again. I was just cautious with my excitement,
Speaker 1: with my feelings. And I definitely think that I got
Speaker 1: a real dose of living in the moment. This is
Speaker 1: the moment that I am, you know, this many weeks pregnant,
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful for this and and and all that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but it.
Speaker 1: Was, it was it was a bit different it was
Speaker 1: a bit different. And then when we had Josie, I
Speaker 1: was so just over the moon and I absolutely to
Speaker 1: answer your question.
Speaker 3: Just she came out and I was like, I'm done,
Speaker 3: We're done. Yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 2: I also just cannot imagine you without Josie.
Speaker 4: I mean, I know, the little caboose, Oh, the cabooz booze.
Speaker 3: Let's go to Milly.
Speaker 2: Let's go to Milly.
Speaker 1: I'm Milly and I'm a first time mom with a
Speaker 1: four months old. Do I really need mom friends with
Speaker 1: babies of similar ages? None of my friends have babies yet,
Speaker 1: But does that matter? Can I just wait until my
Speaker 1: baby is going to preschool to find more moms to
Speaker 1: be friends with. How much do you think it's important
Speaker 1: to make friends at this point with people who have
Speaker 1: babies the same age. Well, first of all, don't stress. Yeah,
Speaker 1: make friends. You're gonna make friends. You're gonna have babies
Speaker 1: in your life. It's all gonna be fine, So don't
Speaker 1: worry about this. But I do think that another little,
Speaker 1: dirty little secret about parenting.
Speaker 3: I don't know if this happened to Chicamila, was.
Speaker 1: I thought you were to have a baby, and again
Speaker 1: it was like you and the baby against the world
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be hanging out and everything else.
Speaker 3: And then the baby comes in.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that baby has done a very good conversationalist.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, baby's not talking, and the baby sleeps a lot.
Speaker 3: That baby just needs stuff all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so the beginning of having a baby can
Speaker 1: be like the tiniest bit I'm not sure if this
Speaker 1: is the right word, but like a little bit lonely
Speaker 1: because you're in full caretaking mode.
Speaker 2: A little bit. I think it can be super fucking lonely. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just too isolating, yep. Yeah, because also you don't
Speaker 2: trust that you can get out of the house in time. No,
Speaker 2: you're told like, hey, don't hate you know, watch when
Speaker 2: they're young because they're succeptible. And you're like, okay, so
Speaker 2: you're kind of you almost like you're quarantining a little bit.
Speaker 2: Not everyone feels that way. I felt like I was,
Speaker 2: you know, me and my health triggers and anxiety. I
Speaker 2: was like, if we go out, we're gonna get a
Speaker 2: bola I go to Starbucks.
Speaker 3: Leprosed diphoid fever is coming for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Whatever. From eighteen oh five, it'll be back in
Speaker 2: that Starbucks and I'll get it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I definitely stayed home. I did not have family
Speaker 2: around me. I had no family. Me and Matt do
Speaker 2: not have family in the city. I did not have
Speaker 2: a nanny I had. I didn't. I was me and
Speaker 2: Hades and Matt and it was isolating. It was really hard.
Speaker 2: I do think that you don't have to worry about
Speaker 2: having moms with babies that age, although I can see
Speaker 2: the benefit because you're like, is this happening to you?
Speaker 2: Is this happening to me? I mean I wish, I
Speaker 2: kind of wish I had, But I think it's a
Speaker 2: personal thing. I think as long as you feel support
Speaker 2: from people, it can be it can be enough.
Speaker 1: Well, And I think that yes, And so I think
Speaker 1: because I think that this question is interesting, It's like,
Speaker 1: do you need to have friends with babies?
Speaker 3: No? Can it be really additive? And is it fun.
Speaker 1: To have friends who also have babies, you know, at
Speaker 1: similar ages? Yeah, because you you do this, you talk
Speaker 1: about it, like, Hey, what's going on for you?
Speaker 3: What's going on for me?
Speaker 1: Talking about the things and then also doing these things
Speaker 1: together can be very a lot more interesting than staring
Speaker 1: at a baby who doesn't talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can both stare together, Yeah, your own babies
Speaker 2: or talk well the babies you're talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can stare and you can have a conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I definitely think so. I do think that naturally,
Speaker 2: once your kids are in play school in England preschool here,
Speaker 2: like you will, you will absolutely find community. But there
Speaker 2: are benefits to finding other mamas that age. But again,
Speaker 2: again it's a personal thing because some people might not
Speaker 2: need that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I could have done with that, I
Speaker 2: think Okay. Denise writes my lockdown baby, Oh I feel
Speaker 2: Ya is starting preschool in September. She's four and has
Speaker 2: very big emotions. It takes time for her to build
Speaker 2: trust with adults, and our stay and play sessions have
Speaker 2: not gone well. I've done this three times before, but
Speaker 2: she is the most emotional about it. Is it lockdown?
Speaker 2: Do I just have a totally different child? It's stressing
Speaker 2: me out. Help. I was this kid big feelings. I
Speaker 2: had very big feelings. I wanted to be around my
Speaker 2: mom all the time. I cried at birthday parties if
Speaker 2: she went out of my sight. I was this child.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's lockdown. I mean, it could be
Speaker 2: part of it, that could be part of it. But
Speaker 2: I do think that some children just are not you know,
Speaker 2: they don't want to be left away from their parents.
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, when I dropped Hayden
Speaker 2: off at her school for the first time, she was
Speaker 2: actually totally fine, very independent, and then I dropped when
Speaker 2: we dropped her off at school for the first time,
Speaker 2: she was one of the last kids to be okay
Speaker 2: with it. She was crying for a long time, and
Speaker 2: I kept hearing that it does get better, and it
Speaker 2: really feels like it doesn't. You feel like it's going
Speaker 2: to be an absolute nightmare, and somehow, at some point,
Speaker 2: before you know it, they're just waving goodbye to you,
Speaker 2: and you feel like it's not going to happen. I
Speaker 2: felt like all the I guld see all the other
Speaker 2: kids doing it, she was still crying. It really does happen,
Speaker 2: So I would not quite simply, I don't think you
Speaker 2: would have a different child. I understand the stress. I
Speaker 2: was also this kid, And it gets better, it really does.
Speaker 2: It feels daunting, but it gets a lot better.
Speaker 3: I totally agree with that, and.
Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of kids who
Speaker 1: just have big feelings and they actually don't go away.
Speaker 3: That's just how they're built, how they're put together.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of quite frankly, if this helps
Speaker 1: you to think this way, geniuses.
Speaker 3: Total geniuses just have really big feelings.
Speaker 1: They have access to a whole other emotional well, and
Speaker 1: it might be deeper than another.
Speaker 3: I think that it's then about you.
Speaker 1: And how you manage your parenting and how you manage
Speaker 1: them and how you help them feel different degrees of
Speaker 1: safe or secure or heard and seen, because typically I
Speaker 1: find that the kids that feel out of control or
Speaker 1: have the super big feelings are not connecting the feeling
Speaker 1: with what's going on, Like what I mean, Am I
Speaker 1: scared that my mom's going to leave because she's not going.
Speaker 2: To come back?
Speaker 3: Is that what I'm dealing with?
Speaker 1: Or am I scared about my mom leaving because I
Speaker 1: mean like fill in the blank. I think it's so
Speaker 1: obviously you know, for as verbal, but as they get
Speaker 1: more and more able to communicate with you is just
Speaker 1: asking those questions, get really getting really curious about, like
Speaker 1: tell me what you're worried about?
Speaker 3: Like how do we solve for these things?
Speaker 1: How do we what are you worried about what do
Speaker 1: you think is going to happen. Let's run through those
Speaker 1: scenarios and if that happens.
Speaker 3: What will you do? How do you become more prepared?
Speaker 3: Because ultimately, again going back to Luke and his driver's.
Speaker 1: License, you're you're raising them to trust themselves, to trust
Speaker 1: themselves to fix any problem that comes their way, because ultimately,
Speaker 1: in strength and in confidence they will they will know,
Speaker 1: and they will know it with your help for quite
Speaker 1: a while, but then they will know it on their own,
Speaker 1: or they'll make mistakes and then they'll learn it a
Speaker 1: different way. Right, But ultimately that you continued to be
Speaker 1: curious about helping them help themselves.
Speaker 2: I also did this little thing. Yes it does. And
Speaker 2: I also do this little thing that I still do
Speaker 2: now with hate. And when she gets nervous about stuff,
Speaker 2: when we're leaving her we have to travel or something
Speaker 2: like that, we take a marker pen and we draw
Speaker 2: a heart. We let her draw heart on us, and
Speaker 2: we draw a heart on her hand, and so we're connected.
Speaker 2: And if you have feelings, I want you to look
Speaker 2: at the heart. And it's like this thing that I
Speaker 2: feel like reminds her that we're there or reminds her
Speaker 2: of the conversation of like I'm coming back, just a
Speaker 2: little thing that we've always done. Yeah, Jessica Capshaw, I
Speaker 2: love you so much. I love you, and I love
Speaker 2: you for sharing because I know these things are not easy.
Speaker 2: Wish they were easier to share, and I just think
Speaker 2: you're so sking awesome for telling that story today.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm very glad to have shared it, and I'm
Speaker 1: also very I'm very grateful to have you know, it
Speaker 1: sounds crazy, but I'm grateful to have had it happen
Speaker 1: and to be able to move through it and another
Speaker 1: proof that you know, really hard, really terrible things can
Speaker 1: happen and you can still be okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm gonna let you call it.
Speaker 3: Call it. The end of the episode.