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Speaker 1: Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,

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Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello Call It Crew, and welcome to a new episode

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Speaker 2: of Call It What It Is?

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, Hi, how are you? I'm in the summer.

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Speaker 1: You're in summer saying? Yeah, oh, this is the home

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Speaker 1: edition for me. This is my first time at home

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Speaker 1: talking to you. It's coming live from my bedroom.

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Speaker 2: From your bedroom. I love it, intimate, sexy, we're bringing

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Speaker 2: the sexist episode. No, when I say summer, I don't

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Speaker 2: mean like relaxing summer vibes. I mean like kids, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you mean that moment when you realize that they're

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Speaker 1: out of You're so excited for them to be out

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Speaker 1: of school, You're so excited for summer mode, and you

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Speaker 1: have like that first couple of days where you're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to wake up for anything, I don't

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Speaker 1: need to do that morning rush, I don't need to

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Speaker 1: do anything. And then it's day three or four and

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Speaker 1: you're like, okay, but what do I need to do

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Speaker 1: with them now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Where do they go? Who's going to entertain them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Like where are your parents?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Where are your parents?

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Speaker 3: There's there someone to take care of you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who's taking care of you? It's not me?

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: I signed Hayden up for every camp under this some

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Speaker 2: of them I don't even know. I'm like, what is that?

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Speaker 2: Can't you know like a horror movie camp? Great? Sign

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Speaker 2: her up?

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Speaker 4: What is that?

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Speaker 2: Nine to nine pm? Perfect?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I signed her for so many camps and then this

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Speaker 2: week I did not have her any in any camps,

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Speaker 2: and next week I don't And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was because I was like thinking to myself, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this will be so nice. She'll be at home. We

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Speaker 2: can we can make smores.

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Speaker 3: We can like guess how long it takes to make smores?

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Speaker 2: Five minutes?

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Speaker 3: And how many hours in the day?

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Speaker 2: Now not many hours.

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Speaker 3: No, there's like twelve hours of the day experiments to

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Speaker 3: make smores. What do you do with the rest of

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: That is the problem in my mind. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: s'mores right. And it's like ten am this morning, and

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Speaker 2: she was like I hate today? What are we doing?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god, Like what camp? Is

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Speaker 2: there an emergency camp?

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Speaker 3: Uh huh? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Just to shove them in.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Are your kiddos too old for camp.

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Speaker 1: No, they're all in camp. They're all in camp. I

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Speaker 1: love camp. They don't all love camp. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: love camp as a kid, so I have compassion for

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Speaker 1: their not loving camp. But we finally did find a

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Speaker 1: camp that they love, and so now I'm very excited.

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Speaker 3: About that camp. But Josie goes begrudgingly to camp.

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Speaker 2: What doesn't she like about it?

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Speaker 3: She's a homebody. You know, there's four of them.

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Speaker 1: They all have very distinct personalities, and Josie would definitely

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Speaker 1: be the homebody. She's really happy to just chill. She

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Speaker 1: likes to, you know, I know, do the things that

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Speaker 1: happen at home. But this week, well, this past week,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's well, you know, it was full of

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Speaker 1: firsts for me because this past week was the first

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Speaker 1: week of having a child who technically as a young man.

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Speaker 1: M hmm, he has a driver's license, Tamilla. He has

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Speaker 1: a license to drive, and he's using it.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I my soul left my body for a second,

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Speaker 2: is back in because I remember Luke so little still

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Speaker 2: and the fact that he might be behind the wheel.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, I don't how do you do? Tell me everything?

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Speaker 3: All right, so here's what I sort of feel like.

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Speaker 1: So after going through this first week, there's the first

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Speaker 1: feelings that are just excitement and really really dipping into

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Speaker 1: what I remember getting a license feeling like, which was

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Speaker 1: sking great.

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Speaker 3: It was like independence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the minute I could get my license, I

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Speaker 1: got it, I was like, the world is my oyster.

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Speaker 3: I was ready to read those wings and fly. And

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Speaker 3: was I completely responsible?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: But was that okay with me in that moment? Yes?

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Speaker 3: And did my parents need to know about it?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: There were little things I was keeping to.

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Speaker 1: Myself, but I was free is what I want? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I could pick up my friends, I could go do

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Speaker 1: my stuff. It was fantastic. So I could really feel

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Speaker 1: that for him and how exciting that was. And I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to clip his wings at the same time

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Speaker 1: that I felt total panic. Yes, because just like you said,

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Speaker 1: he's my baby, but he's not a baby, he's a

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Speaker 1: young man. So it felt the most like bear with

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Speaker 1: me in this analogy. It felt like the beginning of

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Speaker 1: a new relationship where you don't want to seem like

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Speaker 1: too needy but not too independent. So I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be calling him all the time like hey, what

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Speaker 1: time did you leave and where are you going? And

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Speaker 1: can you text me when you leave the place and

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Speaker 1: then text me when you get to the place. But

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Speaker 1: I also didn't want to seem like I didn't care,

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Speaker 1: and I did feel like I needed to know that

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Speaker 1: information to also just like regulate my nervous system.

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Speaker 2: Are you tracking him? Like? Do you can you find?

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Speaker 2: Can you track him so that you can see where

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Speaker 2: he's going?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we all share our locations with each other

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Speaker 1: and our family. Yes, I don't. I don't honestly look

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Speaker 1: at that very much. I sort of depend on good

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Speaker 1: old fashioned communication. I mean, I get that I could

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Speaker 1: find him if I wanted to, but I would rather

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Speaker 1: work on the relationship piece where he understands that I

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Speaker 1: care where he is and there's a responsibility in our

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Speaker 1: relationship for him to let me know, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: me just pulling out my phone and seeing a moving dot.

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Speaker 3: Does that make sense.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I just I think that I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: have to by the way I think. I think that's

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Speaker 2: the way to do it. However, I do feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be in minority report and when they're driving,

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Speaker 2: I will be like like Matt, don't talk to me. Okay,

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Speaker 2: she's on Ventura Boulevard, she's just past the McDonald's. It's like, yes,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I won't be able to track

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Speaker 2: twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 1: By the way, little known fact because it was a

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Speaker 1: blink and you might miss it moment, but I was

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Speaker 1: a helicopter pilot in minority report. Doesn't matter right now.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about it later. Actually, there's nothing to talk about.

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Speaker 1: It was a blink and you would miss it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean the internet misses nothing, so social media

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Speaker 2: bring that up place for us right now.

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Speaker 1: I will tell the story later on because I was

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Speaker 1: in a scene with Tom Cruise and there's a funny

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Speaker 1: story from that.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, we digress.

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Speaker 2: By the way, you can't really digress. We will let you,

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Speaker 2: but we're coming back to what Tom.

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Speaker 3: We will come back to it. Oh, all the Tom

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Speaker 3: Cruise stories. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So that's how it's been this week. And I'm really

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Speaker 1: proud of him.

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Speaker 3: And I'm really proud of myself.

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Speaker 1: And it also happened to be a week where Christopher

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Speaker 1: it was a little divide and conquer a week for

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Speaker 1: our family. Christopher took the two older girls even Poppy

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Speaker 1: on a incredible adventure whitewater rafting, so they were completely offline.

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Speaker 1: So actually it really only was me that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: checking with him. And I definitely feel like as I'm

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Speaker 1: a little Christopher's far better at you know, he believes

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Speaker 1: in that, like that play based childhood and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna slip and fall, they're gonna make

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Speaker 1: mistakes and we're here to like help and I can

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Speaker 1: run a little more. I can futurize a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that I'm I.

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Speaker 3: Don't feel anxious.

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Speaker 1: I don't like worry, but I definitely think about what

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Speaker 1: could happen a little bit more than maybe he does.

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Speaker 1: So it's been interesting because again it's the beginning of it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want him. I don't want Luke to

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Speaker 1: feel stress for me. I want him to feel excitement

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Speaker 1: and also expectation of doing like doing this the right way.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I have a question because does it help you,

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Speaker 2: because my fear is that my kids will be learning

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Speaker 2: to drive possibly in Los Angeles? Does it help you

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Speaker 2: that you have like two roads in your town, like

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Speaker 2: a road in and out.

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Speaker 1: There's just things I can rely on from you.

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Speaker 2: I hope, Like I'm being honest, though.

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Speaker 3: The one blinking light in the center of town.

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Speaker 2: Is exactly like it he's gonna be. There's only one

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Speaker 2: light to deal with. Does it help that you live

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Speaker 2: in a smaller town? Honestly? Does it help that? Because

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Speaker 2: imagine him learning. Would you feel differently if he was learning,

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Speaker 2: if you had just got his license and he was

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, would you feel any different?

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I understand what you're saying, and yes,

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Speaker 1: on some level, there's there's a little more room to

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Speaker 1: practice in like a one lane street type situation that

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Speaker 1: he said, We do have highways.

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Speaker 2: Around here, So is he allowed all this?

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Speaker 1: They connect because they connect people in places. Yeah, listen,

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Speaker 1: I think that it. It feels like the system that

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Speaker 1: the government or the DMV, the Department of Motor Vehicles

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Speaker 1: has laid out is probably a good one, right. They

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Speaker 1: ask for certain things of them, And so he got

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Speaker 1: his parent and then he was able to drive with us.

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Speaker 1: So we've been driving with him for the past six months.

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Speaker 3: And he's a good driver.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, although that's a whole other thing too,

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Speaker 1: because when you're in the drivers when you're in the

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Speaker 1: passenger seat.

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Speaker 3: I was definitely guilty of a lot of mom like.

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Speaker 2: Who's worse? Who was the worst? You or Christopher were

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Speaker 2: worse in the passenger seat.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we're gonna have to have Luke come on as

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Speaker 3: a guest to tell.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, whould Christopher pick?

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Speaker 1: I would actually say, I would give this one to Crystal.

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Speaker 1: I think that crystaler drove with him more. They would

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Speaker 1: go on longer like road trips and he would drive.

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Speaker 3: I mean, thank you, Christopher.

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Speaker 1: I think Christopher did a really really great job of

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Speaker 1: driving with him. And I mean I drove with them

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Speaker 1: all that I could, but it wasn't I don't think

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Speaker 1: as much as him. And then he took real driver's

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Speaker 1: lessons with the you know, of course driving lesson people.

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Speaker 2: When I first moved to Los Angeles, I could not

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Speaker 2: drive here. I didn't have my driver's.

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Speaker 3: Life right and also opposite side of the road.

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Speaker 2: Yes, very different. And I took the bus for the

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Speaker 2: first like four years that I lived here, and then

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Speaker 2: I finally because driving lessons are very expensive, so I

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Speaker 2: started my driving lesson and I remember driving with this

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Speaker 2: guy in England. It's very very serious, right, and here

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Speaker 2: here it's I think it's serious too. But the guy

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Speaker 2: I was taking driving lessons with. I remember we were

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Speaker 2: going down the street and he was like, okay, take

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Speaker 2: a left to take a right, and I'm like, where

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Speaker 2: are we going? He had me pull into a drive

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Speaker 2: through because he was hungry. Part of my lesson was

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Speaker 2: going through in and out drive through. This is not

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Speaker 2: a joke. He ordered food and I was like, I

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Speaker 2: guess we're doing this. He was like leaning over me,

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Speaker 2: like a milkshake, and I'm like, okay, one milkshake. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I guess this is how you learn a drive in

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Speaker 2: the US. You gotta do that. That was part of

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Speaker 2: my driving lesson. And to be honest, once I passed,

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Speaker 2: I was like, I know how to go through the

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Speaker 2: drive through. Once I passed, it was still terrifying. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they're freeways in it's the wild West. In Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: I always think of clueless.

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Speaker 2: It is like clueless it is I have had when

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Speaker 2: you're pulling in and the freeway is seventeen lanes wide

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Speaker 2: on one side, you're screaming. Yeah, you're full on screaming

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Speaker 2: and you're praying, and you make it through and then

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Speaker 2: you're like great. Yes, that was my driving lesson experience

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Speaker 2: in the state. It's very different England, I will tell you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean the new thing that came up this week

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Speaker 1: was just again, these things just jump right out in

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Speaker 1: front of you. Didn't expect this one. He will be

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Speaker 1: driving other people, right, So the driver's license has restrictions

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Speaker 1: about who. But then you can drive certain people over eighteen,

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Speaker 1: under eteen blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: And then you think, whoa. I mean, do you need

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Speaker 3: to do a.

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Speaker 1: Whole interview with a passenger to make sure that they're

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Speaker 1: not impulsive, they're not distracting? There, you're a good co pilot,

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Speaker 1: because now I don't have to just trust my kid.

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Speaker 3: I gotta trust the best.

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Speaker 2: Be honest. Is there anyone that you're like, listen, you're

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Speaker 2: not to Bob that is not that passenger. Princess is

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Speaker 2: being a princess somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: Luckily there's no Bob, because I'm not sure there are

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Speaker 1: any Bobs under the age of like forty five. It

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Speaker 1: was a Bob.

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Speaker 2: There's a Bob in every general he's.

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Speaker 3: Taken a Bob. I want to know why Bob's.

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Speaker 2: Bob in the car. We have a lot of questions

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Speaker 2: about Bob, but maybe.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, is he taking a Will or a Jake? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there are Wills and Jakes, and I think that.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna have to now get to them.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be there's gonna be some protocol. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: need to get to know these friends a little more

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Speaker 1: than I do.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, what's the cell phone situation. Here's what I

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Speaker 2: would want to do. I'd want to call to make

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Speaker 2: sure they're okay, but I don't want to call because

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Speaker 2: I don't want them picking up the phone.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: We had a huge, huge, huge thunderstrom yesterday, like again,

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Speaker 1: buckets and buckets and buckets of water coming out of

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Speaker 1: the sky, and I thought he's on the road. It was,

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Speaker 1: it was actually, it was definitely my most worried moment because.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's driven in rain before. It's okay, but it's

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Speaker 3: like you just want to know it's hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, so I had that moment I thought should I

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Speaker 1: call him or is calling him going to be distracting?

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Speaker 3: That's when you pull out the minority life.

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Speaker 2: That's when you were like, that's when you do this

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Speaker 2: is the dots and you're like, the storm's moving this way,

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Speaker 2: the cars moving this way. You know, you want to

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Speaker 2: know how many lightning strikes there are? Yeah, no, that's

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Speaker 2: what that's when you got a minority report it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been real interesting, but I got I have

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Speaker 1: to say on the positive note again going back to

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Speaker 1: how I felt, it's such a huge moment in your independence,

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Speaker 1: and it's so important, like trust, right, you've been talking

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Speaker 1: about your whole life with them, and we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this before. It's the whole thing, right, and been building

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Speaker 1: your and moving your children towards independence and adulthood. Is

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Speaker 1: like we've been doing things with them for so long,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to have to do them on their own,

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Speaker 1: and and you're going to have to trust that they can.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's why it's been a big week.

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Speaker 2: Thank God. Honestly hearing this, I'm not ready for this.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to have my three year old who loves

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Speaker 2: Buzz light Year and my seven year old I do.

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Speaker 2: I have been there've been camps this summer. We've also

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Speaker 2: been in and you know this when you have little

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Speaker 2: kids more so than anybody, a lot of birthday parties.

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Speaker 2: I am hitting up every birthday party in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I talked to you on Saturday. You sounded exhausted.

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Speaker 2: I hit up to that day. But my social life

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Speaker 2: arc is kids' birthday parties. And luckily, I really love

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Speaker 2: all the parents that I have to socialize with for

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Speaker 2: these parties, and their kids are wonderful. But we started

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Speaker 2: to have this conversation at one of the birthday parties.

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Speaker 2: We were at about the pressure of throwing a party,

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Speaker 2: and I blame social me for this. I blame reality

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Speaker 2: TV shows for this. Even though I do like reality TV.

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Speaker 2: The pressure to throw a birthday party from when we

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Speaker 2: were kids to now is really hard and I think

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Speaker 2: we gotta forget it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, take the thut off the gas? Are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: Just like the fact that everything needs to be instagram worthy?

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Speaker 2: Do we need fifty fucking balloon arches? Do I need

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Speaker 2: a balloon arch to go to the bathroom?

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Speaker 1: And you know they're not good for the environment, They're

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Speaker 1: not good for anyone here.

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Speaker 2: No, I know, but you can't. Also, you know, everyone's

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Speaker 2: there's some sort of organic you know, balloon arch that

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Speaker 2: you know will help feed a tree, so that you

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Speaker 2: can't it's not even an excuse anymore. But like, I

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Speaker 2: don't need literally a balloon arch to go pee. It's fine.

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Speaker 2: I don't need one over the toilet and then the sink. No,

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Speaker 2: there is a faking balloon arch in every And by

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Speaker 2: the way, I've been guilty. Have I done a balloon

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Speaker 2: arch in my time? I've done a couple. I'm guilty

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Speaker 2: of the arches. But did my mom do a balloon arch? No,

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Speaker 2: she tied some balloons together and she threw them over there.

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Speaker 2: And like we both had the tradition because I stole

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Speaker 2: it from you that we send them up to the

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Speaker 2: scene and that's cute, but like it's it's out of control.

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Speaker 2: Now you have the characters. And by the way, I've

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Speaker 2: had the character show up. I've had Mickey show up

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Speaker 2: to the party.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's too much. It's too much, it's

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Speaker 3: too much.

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Speaker 1: I definitely definitely succumbed the pressure to have that kind

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Speaker 1: of party. Also, I kind of I enjoyed it. I did,

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Speaker 1: I kind of liked it and then and then I didn't.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like as we moved through the years,

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Speaker 1: I definitely dressed up as Elsa myself.

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Speaker 3: And I have Yeah, I have photos.

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Speaker 2: Guess who's gonna be buzz light Year in August.

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Speaker 1: Me?

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Speaker 3: By the way, guess who's not cute as Elsa?

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Speaker 2: Me?

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Speaker 3: You can't, Jessica.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm going to post. I'm gonna post them. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give you a visual. That wig does mean no favors.

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Speaker 2: Would you wear the wig you wore them? You're blonde?

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Speaker 3: Does my hair look like Elsa's?

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Speaker 1: No, I needed like the big it was the white flock.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, those things are a fire hazard. By the way,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what they're made of.

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Speaker 1: But Josie was three or something, and she definitely I

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Speaker 1: actually don't.

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Speaker 3: I actually think she might have thought she was part Elsa.

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Speaker 3: She would just stand there and like speak to the water.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the pressure for birthday parties, yes, too much. I

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Speaker 2: think we got to do away with we use simplicity

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Speaker 2: back because by the way, I have thrown I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: say this really quick. I thrown birthday parties that feel

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Speaker 2: like way too extravagant and the kids at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day end up playing Chase. They just want

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Speaker 2: to play tag, some pizza, some music, call it a day.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was actually think about it because I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about Luke driving and I was sort of

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Speaker 1: thinking about what. You know, you start with this little

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Speaker 1: baby in your arms, and it's just and he was

384
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Speaker 1: our first, and there's just all the feelings and you

385
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Speaker 1: have all these ideas about what kind of parent you're

386
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Speaker 1: gonna be and everything else, and then through parenting you

387
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Speaker 1: realize there's some things that you expected from yourself and

388
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: some things that surprise you. Do you feel like you

389
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 1: have a parenting style? Do you feel like you have

390
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Speaker 1: an idea of how you like.

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Speaker 3: Move through parenting?

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Speaker 2: No, which is a problem because I want to label it.

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Speaker 2: I love I love a label. I want to be

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Speaker 2: like I'm a you know, I think I'm all of

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Speaker 2: the labels that you can be. I feel like sometimes

396
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Speaker 2: my parenting is not consistent, which is probably not great. No,

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Speaker 2: I don't. Honestly, sometimes I just feel like I'm freaking

398
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Speaker 2: winging it take me hour by hour, Like I don't

399
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 2: know that's okay today and then tomorrow? Am I getting

400
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:49,919
Speaker 2: trouble for that?

401
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 1: You know?

402
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 2: Like I don't know that's that's the move?

403
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Speaker 5: You know?

404
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 2: What? Get you want to have chocolate for dinner? Like

405
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,159
Speaker 2: I don't have it. I don't care anymore. It's fine,

406
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 2: It's fine. And then tomorrow when you ask me for dessert,

407
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you out of your goddamn when asking

408
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 2: for dessert? What is this okay?

409
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 1: But that all seems completely okay as long as you

410
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,679
Speaker 1: communicate that, right, I mean, I think that as long

411
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 1: as our kids, I mean, I think we actually probably

412
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 1: are more consistent than You're, probably more consistent than than

413
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 1: you think you are, and your kids get to know

414
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 1: you so they know that when today it's chocolate for dinner,

415
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 1: it's because you know X, Y or Z was happening.

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Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I feel like I have. I feel like.

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely not authoritative, Like it's not like my way

418
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Speaker 1: or the highway, although I definitely was far more.

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Speaker 3: Rigid when I first started parenting, like in.

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Speaker 1: My ideas of what was right or wrong, or even

421
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Speaker 1: the fact that I thought there was a right or wrong.

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Speaker 3: Like, I don't feel that way anymore. And I'm definitely

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Speaker 3: not permissive. So I feel like I'm in the middle.

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Speaker 2: That's great.

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Speaker 1: I love my kids so much and I want to

426
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Speaker 1: have a great time with them, and I want to

427
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Speaker 1: raise them and to being like young adults that like

428
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Speaker 1: I want to.

429
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Speaker 3: I want to hang out.

430
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Speaker 2: Like I want.

431
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Speaker 3: I want them to get older and want to keep

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Speaker 3: coming back.

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Speaker 1: And that being said, I don't want to give up

434
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Speaker 1: any of my own, you know, my integrity or my

435
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 1: ideas of what I.

436
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Speaker 3: Think is best for them.

437
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Speaker 1: So I think that that's something that that comes into

438
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Speaker 1: my mind a lot, like how do you parent in

439
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Speaker 1: a way that that sets your boundaries at the same

440
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Speaker 1: time that allows for the play and the fun and

441
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: the the the yummy, the part that's like exciting and

442
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 1: fun and adventurous and.

443
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 3: Not full of a ton of rules.

444
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 2: I think it's hard because for me, this is our struggle.

445
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 2: For me for sure, because growing up, my mom felt

446
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 2: very much like my best friend and I always wanted

447
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 2: that relationship again. When Hayden was born, I was like,

448
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 2: I know what this is going to be, like, She's

449
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 2: going to be my little buddy. That's how I was,

450
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 2: and she came out a completely different person to me, obviously,

451
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 2: and it was I have to say it was an

452
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 2: adjustment because I felt like, Okay, this relationship is going

453
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 2: to be different. And by the way, I've realized with

454
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 2: time that my mom probably should have had more boundaries

455
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 2: with me than she had. I was a little bit

456
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 2: too much her buddy. I don't think I should have

457
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 2: been maybe privy to certain things that were happening, for example,

458
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 2: like in my you know, I was very privy to

459
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: money problems we had and when I was very young,

460
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 2: and I think that it was stressed me out. But

461
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 2: I think she shared a lot and it made me

462
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 2: feel close with her. But then I am so I

463
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 2: feel like I'm really having a hard time a little

464
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 2: bit loving that relationship I had with my mom my

465
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: kid is completely different to how I was, and then

466
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how it's going to work for

467
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: me but keep that closeness. So it's sort of a

468
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 2: it's a daily struggle for me a little bit. And

469
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 2: I that's what I'm saying, Like, fucking it's our by

470
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: hour sometimes I feel like it's our by hour with

471
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 2: both of them. And by the way, what's so surprising

472
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 2: is is that really truly surprising, and that I'm sure

473
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 2: any mom missing to this can attest to this. Your

474
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 2: kids are so different, and so the way I'm parenting

475
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 2: one works for one and doesn't work for the other,

476
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 2: and so that adjustment back and forth and then having

477
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 2: trying to not look like you're favoring one over the

478
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: other or you're you're punishing one in a different way

479
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 2: over the other. It's all I'm learning on the job.

480
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 2: That's what's hard about parenting. Your learning on the job

481
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: every day. And I want to do well. I want

482
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 2: it to be success. I want to get I'm the

483
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 2: responsible for their childhoods want them to have amazing memories.

484
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 2: But but yeah, who knows how I'm doing speaking of

485
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: you treat them differently ultimately, what how that playsut when

486
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 2: they get a little older, is you start hearing in stereo?

487
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 3: Well, well that's not fair. Well she got that or

488
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: he got that.

489
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: Oh you think that's happening when they're old, that's happening now.

490
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: Well but that was right for him, and that you

491
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 3: know that's not nice for you.

492
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it is a time you gotta be It's

493
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: you gotta think on your feet. You gotta think on

494
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: your feet. But I do feel like it's okay to

495
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: think on your feet and have things be different again.

496
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: I go back to like relationship, like if you're honest,

497
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: if you are if you're if you're saying when you're

498
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: frustrated and you're letting something happen because you don't have

499
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: the bandwidth, or if you are you know, tired, or

500
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: if you're full of energy. I mean all the different

501
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: things that you can be in a day. I mean,

502
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: we're not robots, right. We have an idea of how

503
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: we want this to go, but that doesn't always it

504
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: doesn't always go like that, So we have to be adjustable.

505
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: And and I do say that to them a lot.

506
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, this is my first time parent.

507
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm going to.

508
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: Get it right sometimes, and I'm going to get it

509
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: wrong sometimes, and I'm gonna.

510
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: Just of the right to walk him back right.

511
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: Like I may make a decision about something and say

512
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: this is okay, or we can do this, and then

513
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,239
Speaker 1: tomorrow I may feel differently, and I will explain that,

514
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: I'll explain why, because I do think that's what's amazing

515
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: about family, Like I think it's so incredible.

516
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: Is that you're a team.

517
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: You're a team that's bound no matter what, by the

518
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: fact that you're family. And that's an incredible, incredible thing.

519
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: So I do try to remind them, like we always

520
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: team family, and so you cannot like what's happening on

521
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: a team, or you can think you know expart Z,

522
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: but ultimately you're stuck with that team.

523
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're stuck with me, So I don't know what

524
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 2: to tell you.

525
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: Buck up, Buttercup.

526
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna use that. This is why, this is

527
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: why I love you, Capshaw, I will use that too.

528
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go home and be like, listen, team the

529
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: leader doesn't know what they're doing today. But you're on

530
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: the team.

531
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 3: You made the team, and you can't get.

532
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 2: On the team, you can't get off. You might get benched.

533
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure why. I'll explain tomorrow exactly. I'll have

534
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 2: more idea what's going on tomorrow.

535
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: I feel like the heading, the heading of this conversation

536
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 1: about Luke and getting his driver's license should have been

537
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: buckle up, Buttercup, welcome to parenting.

538
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, cool up?

539
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, Okay.

540
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: We have some We have some incredible people that have

541
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: written us today. I love them so our episode.

542
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: By the way, I like to say that I'm very,

543
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: very grateful for all of these incredible people that write

544
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: in like truly to trust us with these questions and

545
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: to be excited to write them.

546
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it's really wonderful.

547
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: I want to get into the first one because this

548
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: person has very similar ages to my kids. So Jess

549
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: wrote in and she said, my husband and I have

550
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: two adorable boys, ages two and seven. We are talking

551
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: about a third child, but we can't decide if it's

552
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: the right decision. How did y'all both know your families

553
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: were complete? I can answer this very easily. My family

554
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 2: is complete with just two kids, because I know myself

555
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 2: as a mom, and I know the anxiety that I have,

556
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: and I think I would be a better mom to

557
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 2: two kids than three. I think that it would overwhelm

558
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: me to the point where, yeah, I just don't think

559
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: I would be as good of a mom. And I

560
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 2: think that Matt and I are both feel that way,

561
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: and I feel very complete with two myself. You have

562
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: four those so this is a different answer for you.

563
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 3: Well, I think it well.

564
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: I think that the answer is that it's a very

565
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: personal answer, and you have to The first thing you

566
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: can do is be really really touch and really really

567
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: honest with yourself and with your partner. And I do

568
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: think it's one of those things where you both have

569
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: to be on board. You know, you hear a lot

570
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: of times partners say, you know one would like another

571
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: or you know whatever are you so are you hear

572
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: people say you know I didn't want any or I

573
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: only wanted one and.

574
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 3: We had three. But I do think, you know, you

575
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: have to do it's right for you.

576
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 1: But I obviously it is far far better when you

577
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: have both parents or multiple parent families, even you're all

578
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: on the same page, because I think that it you

579
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: up for success. For me, I came from a big family,

580
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: so I think that it was very natural and I

581
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: didn't feel overwhelmed.

582
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: I didn't feel overwhelmed by more.

583
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: And Luke is three years older than Eve, and then

584
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: Poppy is only twenty months younger than Eve. So we

585
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: went like boom boom with Luke and a break then Eve,

586
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: and then I got pregnant when.

587
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 3: Eve was ten months old.

588
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: So we were in it, and I don't think that

589
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: I thought about having a fourth. And then Poppy was

590
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: then around like two, and I thought, I think I

591
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: really want a fourth. I said to Christopher, what do

592
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: you think and He's like, yeah, I think that would

593
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: be fantastic.

594
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 3: And then we.

595
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: Sort of opened up the possibility for that to happen,

596
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: and I got pregnant and I was so excited and

597
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: I had never had any issues before getting pregnant. I

598
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: was very lucky and I'm very grateful. And then all

599
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: of a sudden, at my ten week appointment went in

600
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: for the ultrasound, was by myself totally unsuspecting, and there

601
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: was no heartbeat, and.

602
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: That was.

603
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 4: Horrible.

604
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: It was the most shocking and deeply, deeply sad thing,

605
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: and I really honestly couldn't believe it. I could not

606
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: believe it. So when I found out that there there

607
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: was no heartbeat, and when I found out that I

608
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: was not going to have a baby, I was not

609
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: going to have that baby. I didn't know what happened next.

610
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: It had never happened to me before, so I didn't

611
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: know if that meant I was going to get my period,

612
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: if I was how this baby was going to pass

613
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: through my maddie. I had no idea, and that was

614
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: when I then and again, your brain is like not working,

615
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: no of it's making sense, And obviously, you know, the

616
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: biggest part was then because you don't know when it's

617
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: going to happen. And so I remember calling Christopher and

618
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: I remember like, just do you say it over the phone?

619
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: Do you wait till you're together there's just such deep sadness,

620
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: and then sharing with him that that's what was happening,

621
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: and then feeling that together, just that deep sadness and

622
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: disappointment and disbelief. In a lot of ways, there was disbelief,

623
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: and then us going to the doctor and sort of saying, Okay,

624
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: so what happens next? And I didn't like, I said,

625
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't know if that meant I

626
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: was going to get my period or what was going

627
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: to happen. And then she was very the best doctor

628
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: in the whole world. I love her so much. She

629
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: delivered three of our babies. And she said, well, what

630
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: happens next is you have a DNC because that needs

631
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: to be cleared out of your body. And these are

632
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: the steps that we're going to take.

633
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: And that's healthcare. That's called health care.

634
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: Yes.

635
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: And I was very very very fortunate. I was very

636
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: very fortunate that I had a doctor who was so

637
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: compassionate and took her time to explain to me what

638
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: was going on and to teach me, and then to

639
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,

640
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: and that I had a partner that was there to

641
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,

642
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: and then you know, life carried on, you know, and

643
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: I had I had a chance to take care of

644
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: myself and my body and my relationship and my other children,

645
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: and it was really incredible. And you know what was

646
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: also very strange to me saying this now because I

647
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: feel so differently about it obviously, is that I, all

648
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: this sudden was very aware that people don't talk about it. Yeah,

649
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: that women have miscarriages all the time, every day. Yeah,

650
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: and we don't talk about that. And I didn't talk

651
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: about it. I didn't talk about it at work. I didn't.

652
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: I talked about it with my close friends. But I

653
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: didn't go to work the next day before I had

654
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: a DNC, by the way, so I knew that I

655
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: was still that I still had this body. And I

656
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: went to work the next day and I didn't tell anybody,

657
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: and I went to work with that feeling and with

658
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: that knowledge. And you know, I think that looking back

659
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: on it now, again, I'm not sure exactly how, but

660
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: I think that the people who are in relationship with you,

661
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: whether they're at work or in your family, if you

662
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: can and if it's okay with you, I think it

663
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: actually should be talked about so that people can help

664
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: take care of you, so that maybe at work that day,

665
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: people could have been a little more even more, you know,

666
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: understanding or had a chance at understanding what it was

667
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: that I was going through, because it is total. It

668
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: is a total body experience, a mind and body experience.

669
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: And anyways, I do think that I do think it

670
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: should be talked about and that it would allow for

671
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: people to understand where people are coming from. And everybody

672
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: wants to deal with it differently, right And by the way,

673
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: if you don't want.

674
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: To talk about it, I think that that's okay too.

675
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: It really is what is personal to you and what

676
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: you need in that moment from your community.

677
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

678
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that The thing that I'm very aware

679
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: of in my own particular story is that I tell

680
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: the story with the perspective of having had three children

681
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: already and then not that I knew it, but I

682
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: would go on to have another and again, because people

683
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: don't often share these stories, we don't know what other

684
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: people are going through, and there are so many stories

685
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: of people who endure miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage that

686
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: don't already have children or their story isn't that they

687
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 1: go on to have another child. And sometimes that means

688
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: that other things happen, and sometimes that means that they

689
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: end up having their children through surrogates, or they end

690
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: up adopting, or they end up fostering, or they end

691
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: up becoming incredibly close and having an insanely unique relationship

692
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: with a friend's child or a relatives child. You know,

693
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: we all have different stories, and I'm very mindful in

694
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: telling mine to be very clear that mine is only

695
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: from my perspective. And the sadness that I felt was

696
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: my sadness, and it was unique to me in a

697
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: lot of moments, defied reason because again I had children.

698
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,959
Speaker 3: But what I realized in going through it was.

699
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: The very very sharp pain of loss like that, it's

700
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: a very very unique sense of loss. So my heart

701
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: is with any and all the women, the partners, the

702
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: family members that deal with it, because it is.

703
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: Truly very very hard.

704
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: And then, you know, we got through that, and then

705
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: I had never been more convinced. I was like absolutely

706
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: there as a fourth and then I did end up

707
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: getting pregnant not soon thereafter, and then I had a

708
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: very different relationship with the first trimester.

709
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: Obviously, At what point did you feel like you could relax.

710
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely I loved being pregnant. I really

711
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: really really loved being pregnant. So I would not say

712
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: that me and my fourth pregnancy was fraught by any stretch.

713
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: And that first trimester, I was very mindful. I was mindful.

714
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: I was mindful of my expectation of you know, all

715
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: the other pregnancies. I you know, I just everyone crossed

716
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: my mind that you wouldn't I wouldn't have a baby

717
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: in my arms, you know, forty weeks later, and in

718
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: this situation, I was very much aware that that could

719
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: not be the story, and so I was cautious, you know,

720
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: it was.

721
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: It was.

722
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: I wasn't dressed rehearsing tragedy. I wasn't thinking like, oh,

723
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: this is going to be terrible, or this is going

724
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: to happen again. I was just cautious with my excitement,

725
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: with my feelings. And I definitely think that I got

726
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: a real dose of living in the moment. This is

727
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: the moment that I am, you know, this many weeks pregnant,

728
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful for this and and and all that.

729
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, but it.

730
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: Was, it was it was a bit different it was

731
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: a bit different. And then when we had Josie, I

732
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: was so just over the moon and I absolutely to

733
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: answer your question.

734
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 3: Just she came out and I was like, I'm done,

735
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 3: We're done. Yeah, I think yeah.

736
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: I also just cannot imagine you without Josie.

737
00:36:48,040 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I know, the little caboose, Oh, the cabooz booze.

738
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 3: Let's go to Milly.

739
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 2: Let's go to Milly.

740
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: I'm Milly and I'm a first time mom with a

741
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: four months old. Do I really need mom friends with

742
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: babies of similar ages? None of my friends have babies yet,

743
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: But does that matter? Can I just wait until my

744
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: baby is going to preschool to find more moms to

745
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: be friends with. How much do you think it's important

746
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: to make friends at this point with people who have

747
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: babies the same age. Well, first of all, don't stress. Yeah,

748
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: make friends. You're gonna make friends. You're gonna have babies

749
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,439
Speaker 1: in your life. It's all gonna be fine, So don't

750
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 1: worry about this. But I do think that another little,

751
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: dirty little secret about parenting.

752
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: I don't know if this happened to Chicamila, was.

753
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: I thought you were to have a baby, and again

754
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: it was like you and the baby against the world

755
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be hanging out and everything else.

756
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: And then the baby comes in.

757
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that baby has done a very good conversationalist.

758
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, baby's not talking, and the baby sleeps a lot.

759
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 3: That baby just needs stuff all the time.

760
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so the beginning of having a baby can

761
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: be like the tiniest bit I'm not sure if this

762
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: is the right word, but like a little bit lonely

763
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: because you're in full caretaking mode.

764
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: A little bit. I think it can be super fucking lonely. Yeah,

765
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: it's just too isolating, yep. Yeah, because also you don't

766
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: trust that you can get out of the house in time. No,

767
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: you're told like, hey, don't hate you know, watch when

768
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: they're young because they're succeptible. And you're like, okay, so

769
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: you're kind of you almost like you're quarantining a little bit.

770
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: Not everyone feels that way. I felt like I was,

771
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: you know, me and my health triggers and anxiety. I

772
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: was like, if we go out, we're gonna get a

773
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: bola I go to Starbucks.

774
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: Leprosed diphoid fever is coming for you.

775
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Whatever. From eighteen oh five, it'll be back in

776
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: that Starbucks and I'll get it.

777
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

778
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: So I definitely stayed home. I did not have family

779
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: around me. I had no family. Me and Matt do

780
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: not have family in the city. I did not have

781
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: a nanny I had. I didn't. I was me and

782
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: Hades and Matt and it was isolating. It was really hard.

783
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: I do think that you don't have to worry about

784
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: having moms with babies that age, although I can see

785
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: the benefit because you're like, is this happening to you?

786
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: Is this happening to me? I mean I wish, I

787
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 2: kind of wish I had, But I think it's a

788
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: personal thing. I think as long as you feel support

789
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 2: from people, it can be it can be enough.

790
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: Well, And I think that yes, And so I think

791
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: because I think that this question is interesting, It's like,

792
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: do you need to have friends with babies?

793
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: No? Can it be really additive? And is it fun.

794
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: To have friends who also have babies, you know, at

795
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: similar ages? Yeah, because you you do this, you talk

796
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: about it, like, Hey, what's going on for you?

797
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: What's going on for me?

798
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: Talking about the things and then also doing these things

799
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: together can be very a lot more interesting than staring

800
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: at a baby who doesn't talk.

801
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can both stare together, Yeah, your own babies

802
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: or talk well the babies you're talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

803
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 2: you can stare and you can have a conversation.

804
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

805
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: No, I definitely think so. I do think that naturally,

806
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: once your kids are in play school in England preschool here,

807
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: like you will, you will absolutely find community. But there

808
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 2: are benefits to finding other mamas that age. But again,

809
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: again it's a personal thing because some people might not

810
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: need that.

811
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

812
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I could have done with that, I

813
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: think Okay. Denise writes my lockdown baby, Oh I feel

814
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 2: Ya is starting preschool in September. She's four and has

815
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 2: very big emotions. It takes time for her to build

816
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: trust with adults, and our stay and play sessions have

817
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: not gone well. I've done this three times before, but

818
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: she is the most emotional about it. Is it lockdown?

819
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: Do I just have a totally different child? It's stressing

820
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: me out. Help. I was this kid big feelings. I

821
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: had very big feelings. I wanted to be around my

822
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: mom all the time. I cried at birthday parties if

823
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: she went out of my sight. I was this child.

824
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: I don't think it's lockdown. I mean, it could be

825
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: part of it, that could be part of it. But

826
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 2: I do think that some children just are not you know,

827
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 2: they don't want to be left away from their parents.

828
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, when I dropped Hayden

829
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: off at her school for the first time, she was

830
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: actually totally fine, very independent, and then I dropped when

831
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: we dropped her off at school for the first time,

832
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: she was one of the last kids to be okay

833
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: with it. She was crying for a long time, and

834
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: I kept hearing that it does get better, and it

835
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: really feels like it doesn't. You feel like it's going

836
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: to be an absolute nightmare, and somehow, at some point,

837
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: before you know it, they're just waving goodbye to you,

838
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: and you feel like it's not going to happen. I

839
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: felt like all the I guld see all the other

840
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 2: kids doing it, she was still crying. It really does happen,

841
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 2: So I would not quite simply, I don't think you

842
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: would have a different child. I understand the stress. I

843
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 2: was also this kid, And it gets better, it really does.

844
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: It feels daunting, but it gets a lot better.

845
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: I totally agree with that, and.

846
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of kids who

847
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: just have big feelings and they actually don't go away.

848
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: That's just how they're built, how they're put together.

849
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of quite frankly, if this helps

850
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: you to think this way, geniuses.

851
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: Total geniuses just have really big feelings.

852
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: They have access to a whole other emotional well, and

853
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: it might be deeper than another.

854
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: I think that it's then about you.

855
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: And how you manage your parenting and how you manage

856
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: them and how you help them feel different degrees of

857
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: safe or secure or heard and seen, because typically I

858
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: find that the kids that feel out of control or

859
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: have the super big feelings are not connecting the feeling

860
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: with what's going on, Like what I mean, Am I

861
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: scared that my mom's going to leave because she's not going.

862
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 2: To come back?

863
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: Is that what I'm dealing with?

864
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: Or am I scared about my mom leaving because I

865
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: mean like fill in the blank. I think it's so

866
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: obviously you know, for as verbal, but as they get

867
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: more and more able to communicate with you is just

868
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: asking those questions, get really getting really curious about, like

869
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: tell me what you're worried about?

870
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 3: Like how do we solve for these things?

871
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: How do we what are you worried about what do

872
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: you think is going to happen. Let's run through those

873
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: scenarios and if that happens.

874
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 3: What will you do? How do you become more prepared?

875
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: Because ultimately, again going back to Luke and his driver's.

876
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: License, you're you're raising them to trust themselves, to trust

877
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: themselves to fix any problem that comes their way, because ultimately,

878
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: in strength and in confidence they will they will know,

879
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,439
Speaker 1: and they will know it with your help for quite

880
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: a while, but then they will know it on their own,

881
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: or they'll make mistakes and then they'll learn it a

882
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: different way. Right, But ultimately that you continued to be

883
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: curious about helping them help themselves.

884
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: I also did this little thing. Yes it does. And

885
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: I also do this little thing that I still do

886
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 2: now with hate. And when she gets nervous about stuff,

887
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 2: when we're leaving her we have to travel or something

888
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: like that, we take a marker pen and we draw

889
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: a heart. We let her draw heart on us, and

890
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,959
Speaker 2: we draw a heart on her hand, and so we're connected.

891
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: And if you have feelings, I want you to look

892
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: at the heart. And it's like this thing that I

893
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: feel like reminds her that we're there or reminds her

894
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: of the conversation of like I'm coming back, just a

895
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: little thing that we've always done. Yeah, Jessica Capshaw, I

896
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: love you so much. I love you, and I love

897
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: you for sharing because I know these things are not easy.

898
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: Wish they were easier to share, and I just think

899
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 2: you're so sking awesome for telling that story today.

900
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: Well, I'm very glad to have shared it, and I'm

901
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: also very I'm very grateful to have you know, it

902
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: sounds crazy, but I'm grateful to have had it happen

903
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: and to be able to move through it and another

904
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: proof that you know, really hard, really terrible things can

905
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: happen and you can still be okay.

906
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm gonna let you call it.

907
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 3: Call it. The end of the episode.