1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: There's a good chance you've heard of Talia Jane, even 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: if you don't recognize her name. When the country seemed 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: to be having a love affair with crapping on millennials, 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: Talia basically became the poster child for the whiny, entitled 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: millennial brat. But she also ignited a conversation about the 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: living wage and took on one of the world's biggest 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: tech companies and actually kind of one. My name is 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Talia Jane. I am a low wage worker, labor activist 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: and occasional writer. Um my pronouns are she? They also 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: and I live in Brooklyn, New York. Um my social 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: Security number? I don't wait, that's not how this works. 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: Talious upbringing was complicated, to put it mildly, When she 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: was a kid, her mom got involved in a convoluted 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: criminal plot that left five people dead. You probably want 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: to know more about that. There's a Wired profile about 19 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: her that you can find on the episode description I lived. 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: My mom was a single mother. She was working low 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: wage jobs. She was, you know, like a secretary. She 22 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: worked for Marrymaids, the cleaning company. She did all sorts 23 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: of stuff like that. Um. We moved around a lot, 24 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: lived in a lot of low income housing, UM, a 25 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: lot of food insecurity. As soon as I was old 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: enough to read, it was expected that I make my 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: own food and do my own laundry and kind of 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: be the parent very very early on. Uh um. And 29 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: on top of that, when I was eleven, my mom's 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: three best friends were arrested for murdering five people, which 31 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: I you know, obviously I had a response to issues with, 32 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: but it really spoke to her sort of chronic need 33 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: to be liked by people and to go along with 34 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: whatever people wanted, uh, to secure a sense of like 35 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: stability and friendship, which was not translated to me. It 36 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: was not a good environment that I was in. And 37 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: when that happened, UM, I went to live with my 38 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: grandparents in southern California, and I was put in a 39 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: stable environment for the first time in my life. Someone 40 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: else was making dinner and someone else was doing my laundry, 41 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: and they were very they were very firm that the 42 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: only thing I had to focus on was school, UM, 43 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: and then I bounced around a little bit more between 44 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: my mom, family friends, UM. Finally went back with my grandparents, 45 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: and then when I graduated high school, it was like 46 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: all right, because they, you know, they're from a different 47 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: generation where it's normal as soon as you graduate high 48 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: school you are out and ideally also married for some reason. 49 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: So on graduation day, my grandpa walked into my room 50 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and he was like, congrats, you have thirty days to 51 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: find a new place to live. Um. And so it's 52 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: just been a lot of UM instability, moments of stability 53 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: that are sort of shrouded by this sense that, um, 54 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: the circumstances that I'm in are not going to last, 55 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: and that they are not normal. Talia took out loans 56 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: to attend cal State Long Beach, but eventually found herself 57 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: having to decide between going to college and working so 58 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: she could support herself. She chose working. She found a 59 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: job lead that sounded promising at the food delivery site, 60 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: which was then owned by Yelp. She'd be starting out 61 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: with minimum wage, which she said worked out to about 62 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: eight dollars an hour after taxes, but it was a 63 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: job and there was talk of her being able to 64 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: move into a position with better pay. This job also 65 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: meant that she could be closer to her father. I 66 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: thought this would be a good chance to connect with 67 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: my dad, who lives in the Bay Area and who 68 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: I never really had much of relationship with um. So 69 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, we're gonna do it. Like 70 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: I just opened a credit card and I put like 71 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: moving expenses on there. I went up there and spent 72 00:04:54,040 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: uh two weeks for two weekends searching for apartments, and 73 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: I finally found one that was extremely expensive, but at 74 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: a point like it was month to month, So I figured, 75 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, I could live here and I'll find someone 76 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 1: at work to room with, and then I can move 77 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: and it'll be fine, Like it'll it'll all sort itself out. 78 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: Tell you did something a lot of people have done 79 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: at some point in their life, packed up on the 80 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: hope that what she was leaving for would be worth 81 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: it when she got there, and it was a chance 82 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: at something that she really didn't get much of as 83 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: a child living with her mom stability. Only that stability 84 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: never came. I wasn't able to find a roommate. I 85 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: did not get transferred to the position that would have 86 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: me earning something like a dollar more per hour um. 87 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: I was working full time minimum wage. I was living 88 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: thirty miles away and paying something like eleven dollars a 89 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: day to commute to and from work. And the very 90 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: quickly it went from this is difficult, but if I 91 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: just keep pushing, something will break and it'll be fine too. Oh, 92 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: this is not tenable. I was. By the time my 93 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: letter happened, I was I hadn't eaten an actual meal 94 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: in a while, and I had noticed that my hands 95 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: were shaking constantly, and all I was doing like when 96 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: I went to sleep, I wasn't dreaming. I would just 97 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: lay down and then my alarm would go off and 98 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: I would wake up. And I would have been doing 99 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: that for a few weeks, and I had something like 100 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: twenty or sixteen dollars in my bank account. I had 101 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: gotten into positions where I couldn't afford to get to 102 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: work because I couldn't afford to put money on my 103 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: Clipper card to take the train, and I couldn't have 104 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: put forward to pay the toll because I didn't have 105 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: any ash um. And it just the situation devolved very quickly, 106 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: and on top of it all, I didn't even get 107 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: to like nurture relationship with my dad. We got coffee once, um, 108 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: on our birthday. We share a birthday, and we got 109 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: coffee for like fifteen minutes, and I was like cool, 110 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: Like that's you know, it was not great. Um, yeah 111 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was a lot of like 112 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: you know when when people read my letter and they 113 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: responded to it with like, oh, this girl is so entitled, 114 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, no, I was attempting to create 115 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: something better. And I had been told by numerous institutions 116 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: and people that if I did certain things, and if 117 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: I followed a certain play book, and if I worked 118 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: really hard and threw myself completely into the work and 119 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: dedicated everything of myself to that that things would work out. 120 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: And obviously that is not true. And I'm not saying 121 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: that just because of what happened to me. But if 122 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: we look at like the world, that is the whole 123 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: concept of the American dream and pulling yourself up by 124 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: your bootstraps, like, these things aren't based in reality. They 125 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: are pretty lives that we tell ourselves to make ourselves 126 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: feel better for being constantly chronically in pain. One day 127 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: at work, Talius boss yelp CEO, Jeremy Stoppleman sent out 128 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: a cheerful all staff video blog something you did pretty 129 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: regularly and something I just have to say. It sounds 130 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: like the kind of soul crushing, semi mandatory motivational tactic 131 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: right out of the movie Office Space. Seriously tell you 132 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: says that one of this logs is about how he 133 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: styles his hair in the morning. Hearing her boss speak 134 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: so cheerfully about her company at a time when she 135 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: was struggling was her breaking point in true tally of fashion. 136 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: It started with a sarcastic little joke on Twitter. She 137 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: tweeted at the CEO offering to edit and watch his 138 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: vlogs if he agreed to pay a living wage. Then 139 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: she wrote him a scathing open letter on Medium. If 140 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: you've ever found yourself in an economically precarious situation, her 141 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: letter will probably sound very familiar. It's written with Talius 142 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: trademark dark sarcastic humor, but in it she writes about 143 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: not being able to afford groceries or heat and making 144 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: rice for dinner most days. She describes how her coworkers 145 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: teetered on the brink of homelessness and eviction. Your employee 146 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: for your food delivery app that you spent three million 147 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: dollars to buy. Can't even afford to buy food, she writes, 148 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: So walk me through how you were feeling when you 149 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: wrote that letter in twenty six, Like, what was the 150 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: Was there like a moment where you were just like 151 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: I am over this or was it something that was 152 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: just like a slow burn inside of you? So I 153 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: remember I was standing in my kitchen and I was 154 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: drinking some water because I had tried to go to 155 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: sleep and I couldn't sleep because I was hungry, and 156 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: so I was drinking water because my stomach was cramping, 157 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and I was waiting for some rice to boil. And 158 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: I noticed that my hands were shaking, and I suddenly 159 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: realized that these things that I had started doing, drinking 160 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: water to get myself through the twenty minutes it takes 161 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: to boil rice so that then I have food in 162 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: my stomach so I can sleep for a few hours 163 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: while my hands are shaking, and like all these things, 164 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: I suddenly zoomed out very quickly, and I went, oh, 165 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: this is fucked, and I I was just like, holy shit, 166 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: I am I am wait? Am I allowed to cuss? Absolutely? 167 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: I was like holy sh it, I cannot believe I'm 168 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: in this situation. And it immediately became clear that I 169 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: had been doing all of the things that we tell 170 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: ourselves we have to do, and I had been putting 171 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: in the work, and I had been making plans A, 172 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: B and C to make something happen. But the problem 173 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: was that I was in a circumstance and in a 174 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: place where none of those things were going to work, 175 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: because the area in the Bay Area has become unlivable 176 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: for people who earn six figures, and yet there are 177 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: still jobs that pay a minimum wage in that area, 178 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: where people have to commute several hours so then they 179 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: can live somewhere slightly more affordable, and they are still 180 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: failing to get by, you know. Like I suddenly like 181 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: it'll click together, and I was like, oh ship, I 182 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: should be earning a living wage. And I started typing, 183 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: and I thought about saving it as a draft, and 184 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: I remember I like sent a picture to my friend 185 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: of the rice that I was eating with my laptop open. 186 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm inventing really hard right now, and 187 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: the picture was blurry because my hands were shaking from 188 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: being you know, malnourished. Um and I was reading it, 189 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: because usually what I do is I will write something 190 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: out just to get the emotion out. And it occurred 191 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: to me that like, there were more people that were struggling, Like, 192 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: if I have it bad, there are other people at 193 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: the same job who also have it bad, and it's 194 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: not fair to them to stay silent and to just 195 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: go along with it when it's so clear how fucked 196 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: up things are. And of course there was like a 197 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: part of me, I was like, they shouldn't fire me though, 198 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: because this is protected concerted activity. I'm speaking on my 199 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: circumstances and on the circumstances of my coworkers and demanding 200 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: something better, like I'm taking a stand for all of us. 201 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: They would be very ignorant to um fire me. And then, 202 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: of course, two hours later, my email got deactivated and 203 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yep, i'mp fired And that's when 204 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: everything blew up. It was bad by over two million 205 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: people in less than two hours, and hitting published she 206 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: was fired from Yelp. Her time at Yelp might have 207 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: been over, but this was just the beginning, it turns out, 208 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: just asking the question of whether it's okay for a 209 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: company based in one of the most expensive cities in 210 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: the world to be paying staff minimum wage was enough 211 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: to spark a lot of about rage. What was the 212 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: fallout like after that letter went viral, So there was 213 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: two waves to it. The first wave was people being like, 214 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: holy sh it, this is awful. Oh my god. And 215 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: there was a lot of people in Silicon Valley who 216 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: were like, whoa, this is huge, like the fact that 217 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: someone said something about Yelp paying minimum wage in like 218 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: to work in San Francisco, one of the most expensive 219 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: cities in the country, that this is a whistleblower. And 220 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: then about four days later, conservative media started to pick 221 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: up on it because their crusty asses are always late, 222 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: and that was when they were like, oh, she's entitled, 223 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: Like who does she think she is? Demanding a living wage? 224 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: Who does she think she is? The responses were really 225 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: personal and angry. Talia Jane shows that she has a 226 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: lot to learn about adulthood. One headline sneered Talia Jane 227 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: she was a Yelp employee. She went on medium dot 228 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: com wrote this blog post basically calling out the CEO 229 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: and being yeah, blaming the company that is actually the 230 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: one that's paying her bills, allowing her to function. One 231 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: of the most popular responses was by Stephanie Williams. She wrote, 232 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: the Talia lect work ethic and that if only she 233 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: had hustled harder, like getting a second job in the 234 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: service industry like she did, she could have pulled herself 235 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: up by her bootstraps. Her response made a lot of 236 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: assumptions about Talia's life, like how she was probably able 237 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: to get support from her family, when in reality that 238 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: wasn't really an option Talia head. After her response to 239 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: Talia went viral, Williams did a series of TV interviews 240 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: about Talia and entitled Millennials. Here's Williams segment from Fox 241 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: News called the Wusification of America. The whole thing kind 242 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: of sounded very Dickens esque, like I am so poor. 243 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so poor. But when I got 244 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: to the end and I realized that she had included 245 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: a link to her Venmo account and a PayPal account 246 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: asking for people to help her to pay rent, I 247 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: just sat there and was like, you have got to 248 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: be kidding me. After doing a media circuit about Taliot, 249 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: Williams successfully sold a TV show, writing on Medium that 250 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: her viral rebuttal about Talia's lack of work ethic had 251 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: been quote her golden ticket. Well, the thing that I 252 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: had trouble with is that she was, you know, listing 253 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: all the ways that she worked hard, but she was 254 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: also putting it in the context of privileges that I 255 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: don't have access to. Um, she was living at home 256 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: when she was working. She when she lost her job, 257 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: she was able to move back home. Those were not 258 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: options that I had. I, like I said, like my 259 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: grandparents were like all right, Sea, Like I couldn't. I 260 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:59,239 Speaker 1: didn't have a home where I could share the financial 261 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: burden while getting myself in line. You know. The response 262 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: is to Italian's letter, calling her lazy and entitled or 263 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: a woos reveal a big problem about how we talk 264 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: about poverty and work in America. It isn't always about 265 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: individual choices or people. And while it's great that some 266 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: folks were able to hustle hard enough out of tough situations, 267 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: if someone is working a full time job, they should 268 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: make a wage they can actually live on. And it's 269 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: not entitled to expect this in America. You're not being 270 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: a woos by simply posing the question of whether things 271 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: could be better and having to work multiple jobs just 272 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: to get by isn't a badge of honor. It's a 273 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: sign that something larger is a miss. Obviously, you should 274 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: not need to work multiple jobs to survive. The minimum 275 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: wage when it was created was was enough to cover 276 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: a family of three, that's two adults and a child. 277 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: Today it cannot cover a single person by themselves working 278 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: full time, and that is the thing that we should 279 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: be discussing. It's not you as an individual are failing. 280 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: It's this system does not want you to succeed. We'll 281 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: be right back, okay, and we're back. After her letter, 282 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: people cone Talia social media to prove she wasn't struggling 283 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: as much as she said she was. They found pictures 284 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: like ones of her eating a homemade roast, or once 285 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: of her using facial scrub to suggest she was exaggerating 286 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: her financial situation. That, too, reveals a big problem with 287 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: how poverty is framed. It doesn't always look how you 288 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: might think, and we've made it seem like it's justified 289 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: to question the financial choices of someone who's poor, and 290 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: we expect that someone who's poor should project that poverty 291 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: at all times. You can't be poor and have an 292 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: iPhone or a laptop, or nice nails, or eat the 293 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: occasional good meal. And in the age of social media, 294 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: the problem gets even trickier. Everyone knows the reality we 295 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: present on Instagram, it's better than the one we actually live. 296 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: So is it reasonable to judge someone's financial situation and 297 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: what's essentially their digital highlight reel? So I think an 298 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: important thing that people don't realize is that when you're 299 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: struggling financially, you have a limited number of ways that 300 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: you can release stress to help you get through it. 301 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: And for a lot of people that might be drinking 302 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: or um, you know, going to the beach or experiencing 303 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: something beautiful as an escape from the ugliness of your 304 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: day to day. For me, it's cooking, like I made 305 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: these Bang and Ask cupcakes from scratch with like candied 306 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: lime slices or something like like, and it was a 307 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: joyous thing for me to be able to escape all 308 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: the other stuff. So that way then I can take 309 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: a breath and get back into it. And when we 310 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: look at these things and say, oh, well, you're not 311 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: really struggling, we have to consider the fact that people 312 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: need outlets to get through ship. On top of that 313 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: social media. We every single person curates their social media 314 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: to appear better than it is. You never see someone 315 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: posting a picture of their infant with a huge diaper 316 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: blowout screaming their face off, even though that happens. You 317 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: only ever see those little babies looking cute and drubic, right, Like, 318 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: we tailor our social media to present a better version 319 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: of our lives. And this happens throughout the you know, 320 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: the financial spectrum. What it boils down to is why 321 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: do you feel the need to police other people? Like why? Also, 322 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: like why do you need a ton of context to 323 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: justify someone's experience. Like I had a picture of a 324 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: oven roast that I made and people said that it 325 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: was steak, and I'm like, no, you're just being a cliche. 326 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm not making fucking steak and lobster. It was an 327 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: oven roast, it costs like seven dollars, and someone else 328 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: purchased it for me to cook for us. But I'm 329 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: not going to put that context on social media because 330 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: if my family and friends found out that other people 331 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: were buying food because I couldn't afford a seven dollar roast, 332 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: then it's going to be like a huge thing and 333 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: I didn't want my family to be worried about me 334 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: because they don't have the resources to help me, and 335 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: they would just feel really bad that I was struggling, 336 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to put that on them, Like 337 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: it's just it's just ridiculous, like these assumptions of of uh, 338 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: feigning poverty or feigning excess or like anything like that. 339 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: Like who gives a ship if someone on food stamps 340 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: wants to buy themselves steak in lobster because that steak 341 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: in lobster is the first meal, first real meal that 342 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: they've eaten that makes them feel human after months of 343 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: struggle and houselessness and all these different things. If they 344 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: want to do that, that's their prerogative. They're a grown up. 345 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: You're a grown up. Act like one. I feel like 346 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: we're all Most people that I know, even people who 347 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: are pretty comfortable, are all like one or two calamitous 348 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: things from not being so comfortable. And I knew someone 349 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 1: who was living pretty comfortably and then, like many folks, 350 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: lost their job, and then, like many folks lost their 351 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: health insurance, and then, like many folks, had a health emergency. 352 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: When that person was doing comfortably, their car was an 353 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: older and earlier model BMW, but so many people were like, 354 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: I can't believe you d have a BMW and you're 355 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: on your on within for the baby, you're on food stamps, 356 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: And she was like, what am I supposed to do? 357 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: Sell my car to make you all feel better about 358 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: me being on food stamps and government at distance? Like, 359 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: how would that make sense? For? Like, how is that 360 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: a choice that makes sense? Maybe the point of the 361 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: matter is that, like, it's not really your business to 362 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: make sure that I have what you assume to be 363 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: the trappings of poverty to be, you know, adequately broke 364 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,239 Speaker 1: down enough that I deserve to eat. I deserve you know, 365 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: government assistance or what have you. We have this like 366 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: really fucked up. I feel like it probably has roots 367 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: in that bullshit thing of the welfare queen. I feel 368 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: like it has roots in that where you have to 369 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: kind of present yourself. You have to put on like 370 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: a performance of your struggle for people to believe it's real. 371 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: You're not allowed to have acrylics or nice hair. You're 372 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: not allowed to have, you know, in fashion clothes or 373 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 1: things that fit you comfortably and that are clean. You 374 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: can't have any of these things. You have to be 375 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: like dirty, grimy, tattered clothes, Like you have to put 376 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: on this charade for people to be like, oh, yeah, 377 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: you really are struggling. I've been saying all of these things. 378 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: But unless I'm doing the song dance to make you 379 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: think that, you're like to make you believe my reality, 380 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: it's somehow like, oh, well, what's your personal fault, Like, 381 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: what's your failing? Like if you have a laptop, you're 382 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: not poor, like most people in the US have a laptop. Also, 383 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: it's not that hard to purchase a laptop and then 384 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: put it on credit and you're paying like a small 385 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: amount every single month. It's not hard to purchase an 386 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: iPhone and every single month you're only paying twenty dollars 387 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: a month to pay off that phone. Like you don't 388 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: see all of the other debts that go into just 389 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: like maintaining an existence in modern society. But because you're 390 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: seeing the aspects of existing in modern society, you're just 391 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: going to assume that people are faking it. Like I 392 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: don't need to walk out of nineteen thirty two for 393 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: you to believe that I am depressed, because it was like, yeah, 394 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: the Great Depression. Um, thank you for that context, you like, 395 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: I don't need I shouldn't need to be like Sepia, 396 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: toned and dusty and like with dingy dirty nails for 397 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: you to recognize that earning a minimum wage is not 398 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: a living wage? Right? Why do I need to live 399 00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: in a shack out in the middle of the woods 400 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: for you to believe that my struggling is valid? Like, 401 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: we have to, really, I think, examine our biases when 402 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: it comes to what poverty looks like, what poverty sounds like, 403 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: and what poverty feels like. Because so many people they 404 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: assume certain types of people are poor, They assume they 405 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: are poor in certain types of way, and that there's 406 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: nothing that can be done because it's their own personal failing. 407 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: And it's just like a big funk you to to 408 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: all that, because it couldn't be further from the truth. 409 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: These are systemic issues that need systemic fixes, and one 410 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: of the best ways to get started on a systemic 411 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: fix is to recognize your internal personal adherents and enabling 412 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: of that system and to uncouple yourself from it, you know, 413 00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: And then you go through and be like, oh, I 414 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: realized that even though I'm not struggling as hard as 415 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: someone in the third world country, my struggles are valid. 416 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: Or I realized that my income does not reflect my value, 417 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: and I recognize that your income doesn't reflect your value. Yeah. So, like, 418 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: there's so much that we can uncouple in ourselves, and 419 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: when we do that, we are able to remove the 420 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: power that these systems have over us and demand better. 421 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: But if we don't do that, it's not going to 422 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: get better. Two months after hitting published on our open letter, 423 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: tell You, a story faded from the headlines, and for 424 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: as many media outlets brand pieces about entitled millennials like 425 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: tell You much, fewer followed up on the story and 426 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: the fact that tell You was actually right and that 427 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: her letter triggered real change, not only to tell you, 428 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: I get people talking and thinking about the living wage. 429 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: Two months after her letter, Yelp increased pay from twelve 430 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: to fourteen dollars, They increased the number of paid time 431 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: off days from five to thirteen, and they added eleven 432 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: paid holidays, up from their previous number of zero. Even 433 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: though a Yelp representative told Recode that the company did 434 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: agree with many of the points in her letter, Yelp 435 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: still says these changes had nothing to do with her 436 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: and that they were already in the works. Do you 437 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: think this was in response to your letter? Absolutely, Um, 438 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: they'll never tell you that. So here's the thing is that, Um, 439 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: the city of San Francisco had previously enacted a thing 440 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: where the minimum wage was set to increase up to 441 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: fifteen dollars by uh I think or something like that. 442 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: So no matter what, they would have had to raise 443 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: the wages, but that first bump would have been much 444 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: less and it wasn't going to go into effect until June. 445 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: So they raise wages more than the bump that they 446 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: needed to and prior to they needed to do it, 447 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: and then they're going to go ahead and claim that 448 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: it wasn't because of me. When at the same time 449 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: as my letter was going viral, the customer support managers 450 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: were having one on one meetings with all of the 451 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: customer support staff to gauge how they were feeling and 452 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: to basically try and prevent a mutiny. And workers were like, yeah, 453 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: it is fucked. I'm working full time. I should be 454 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: making a living wage. And they were like, oh, we 455 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: need to do some changes real quick. And then that's 456 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: when they rolled it out like it's obvious. They're never 457 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: going to admit it, but it's obvious. Do you feel vindicated? No, 458 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: because the amount that a rate or like the mount 459 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: that they increased it, it's still not a living wage. 460 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: The workers that are working for these tech companies are 461 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: still not earning a living wage. The rental costs in 462 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: the Bay Area is still unlivable, and there's still all 463 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: this stupid like Nimby in fighting against building housing and 464 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: capping rental prices and all of these toxic things occurring 465 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: in the Bay Area. So people are still struggling. You know, 466 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: I do feel like it's like, yeah, I was right, 467 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: but also the fight continues, like we're not done yet more. 468 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: After this quick break, let's get back to it. In 469 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: the last few weeks, workers across industries have been speaking 470 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: at it it's unfair, racist, toxic work environments. After Matt 471 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: Hunzie at the food publication Bone Appetite tweeted about racist 472 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: workplace practices within the organization, he was put on leave. 473 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: Tally is happy to see more workers. No, they don't 474 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: have to keep quiet when something bad is happening at 475 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: their job. Every time I see an open letter, I'm like, yeah, 476 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: you're welcome. Like I remember when Medium posted like an 477 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: app update, and they in their in their debug log, 478 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: they called it an open letter to medium users talking 479 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: about talking about like what the update included. And I'm like, 480 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: my legacy, but I do feel like people I was, 481 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: I was early, but I was also right on time, 482 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: I think because obviously I spoke up in a very 483 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: loud and a very um indignant and like direct way, 484 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: which you know you don't usually see. You see like 485 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: leaks from people, uh speaking to media off the record 486 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: or whatever it is, in this sort of like closed 487 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: door method to get the information out there. And instead 488 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: I was like, funk that I'm just gonna hip post, 489 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:20,479 Speaker 1: and I think it might not be direct, but I 490 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: think that I did get caught like the early part 491 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: of people realizing that they have the capacity to use 492 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: their own voice and say this stuff out loud directly. Um. 493 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: I'm hesitant to say that I was the originator of that, 494 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: but I do think that people can look at it 495 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: what I said and be like, I can do this 496 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: but in like a less sarcastic way, and and then 497 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: and they do it, you know, like like Hunsie went on, Um, 498 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: you know Matt Hunsie, if for b A he was 499 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: like yeah, stuff is racist and bad things are bad here. 500 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: And then they're like, oh, we're putting him on paid 501 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: leaves and he's like, look, they're so afraid of people 502 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: just saying the thing. But if you just say the thing, 503 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: then it's out there and people have to uh reconcile 504 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: with it. If you don't say it, who will, you know. 505 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: I think a lesson that a lot of people take 506 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: for me is like, oh, you have to be really 507 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: scared of like your social media presence and like whatever 508 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: you post on there, and it's like who gives a ship? 509 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: I make beautiful cupcakes and I say stuff that needs 510 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: to be said, Like, just say it if it needs 511 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: to be said, put it out there. If you're scared 512 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: of blowback, do it anyway. You're gonna have people who 513 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: are going to come out of the woodwork and be 514 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: like hell yes, you know, like the risk that we 515 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: create in our minds being afraid of like uh like 516 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, like for me, I obviously am still working 517 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: low wage job. Um, but that's not like I I 518 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: used to see it as like punishment, like oh, I'm 519 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: never going to have a good job because I did 520 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: this thing and I'm and now I'm like, there are 521 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: no good jobs. I don't care. I did the things 522 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: you say, the thing, do the thing? That's it. So 523 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: thinking about organizations like Uber and Amazon and insta car, 524 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: you know they're fueled by working people, but yet those 525 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: same people don't really have a loud voice in the 526 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: conversation about those same companies. So what could what can 527 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: we like, how can we make sure that we're meaningfully 528 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: centering those voices um in conversations about about things like 529 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: Uber and Amazon and instac pay them to write the 530 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: articles about the companies. We just have people who you know, 531 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: went to journalism school contacting workers and asking them questions 532 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: that other like that journalists are thinking of, but that 533 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: other workers aren't necessarily like. The workers know the problem 534 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: more than a journalist asking questions does UM. I saw, 535 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: especially among COVID reporting early on, so much of the 536 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: coverage would detail how hard it was at a company 537 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: for low wage workers, and then every single quote from 538 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: workers boiled down to essentially quote like I'm frustrated and scared, 539 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: and then there was no deeper dive. The best thing 540 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: I have seen, like, the best article I've seen about 541 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: workers in COVID was written by an mt A worker 542 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: who had the piece published, I think in the Washington Post, 543 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: and they wrote about the terror of seeing people that 544 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: they saw every day just vanish and die, and like, 545 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: these are things that you are seeing as your working 546 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: in it, and you're able to mediate like and like 547 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: think on these things as you're experiencing them. The journalist 548 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: is just popping into a space and being like, Hey, 549 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: how's it going good? No, dad, okay, and then like 550 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: that's their story. If you want to see these stories 551 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: reflected accurately, pay the people who live them to write 552 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: about it. Get a good editor who doesn't mind spending 553 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more time and nurture the story. Don't 554 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: take their voices and and put it into your mouth 555 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 1: and then speak for them. If you knew now all 556 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: the things that are going to happen, if you published 557 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: your letter, would you would you do it again? That's it? Yes, 558 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's the trolley problem, right, would you, 559 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: uh sacrifice one to save a hundred? Yeah? I don't mind. 560 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: If I'm the one, that's fine, And I mean I've 561 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 1: definitely still had issues. But the further way I get 562 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: from it, the more obvious it is that uh, socially 563 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: and culturally, whether people realize it or not. If they 564 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: were to go back and read my letter today, they'd 565 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, obviously, Uh, like we've we've moved 566 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: into a place where what I wrote is like, it's 567 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: not controversial anymore. Telly is right for all the hate 568 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: she got for her letter. By a wide margin, Americans 569 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: say they favor raising the federal minimum wage. Two thirds 570 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: of Americans support raising the minimum wage to fifteen an hour, 571 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 1: including who say they strongly favor that kind of increase, 572 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: according to a twenty nineteen Pew Research Center survey. So 573 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: we'll tell you be remembered as someone who was an 574 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: early adopter that most people now agree with. Do you 575 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: think that you'll be remembered as a whiney, entitled millennial 576 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: or someone who amplified the conversation around living wages and 577 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: actually made tangible change. I think both. You know. Senator 578 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Ben says in his book he called me an entitled millennial, 579 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: and that book is going to be on shelves, you know, 580 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: and certain people are going to choose to read that. 581 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: He said, Um, what was this quote? Uh, the founding 582 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: fathers would panic at the survivability of the nation. If 583 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: we were to have too many mss Janes, I think 584 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: about that. A sitting senator says that there were too 585 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: many people like tell you, our country might not have 586 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: been able to survive. But what she did was actually 587 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: see a problem in her country, and at great risk 588 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: her own comfort and stability, asked why couldn't it be better? 589 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: What's more patriotic than that? Got a story about an 590 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: interesting thing in tech? I just want to say Hi. 591 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. 592 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi 593 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was 594 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: created by me bridgetad. It's a production of I Heart 595 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: Made an Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. 596 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato 597 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If 598 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us 599 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check 600 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: out the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 601 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.