1 00:00:15,210 --> 00:00:15,730 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,290 --> 00:00:25,770 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Hello, Hi, hello, Hi. Here we all are 3 00:00:25,850 --> 00:00:30,050 Speaker 2: in the studio. Yes, indeed, and today we've got something 4 00:00:30,370 --> 00:00:31,770 Speaker 2: a little different. 5 00:00:32,450 --> 00:00:34,890 Speaker 1: Ooh but kayleie, I don't like different things. 6 00:00:35,290 --> 00:00:38,050 Speaker 2: Well, Jonathan, you might just have to give it a chance, 7 00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:42,050 Speaker 2: because sometimes trying new things can be scary but rewarding. 8 00:00:42,330 --> 00:00:45,489 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, well here comes the chuo choo train 9 00:00:46,450 --> 00:00:48,330 Speaker 1: of listening. What do we got here? 10 00:00:49,290 --> 00:00:52,610 Speaker 2: Recently you're a guest on a show called Wildcard? Do 11 00:00:52,610 --> 00:00:53,170 Speaker 2: you remember that? 12 00:00:53,650 --> 00:00:56,010 Speaker 1: Of course? I remember? How can I forget? I was 13 00:00:56,050 --> 00:00:57,650 Speaker 1: interviewed by Rachel Martin. 14 00:00:58,250 --> 00:01:01,490 Speaker 3: How did it feel, Jonathan to be in the guest seat? 15 00:01:01,730 --> 00:01:04,569 Speaker 1: It felked. I didn't like it. It's a tremendous loss 16 00:01:04,569 --> 00:01:06,410 Speaker 1: of control. I have to say. It was like the 17 00:01:06,530 --> 00:01:09,010 Speaker 1: spider had become the fly or something. But you know, 18 00:01:09,530 --> 00:01:13,090 Speaker 1: here's the incredible. This is nuts. It doesn't even make 19 00:01:13,130 --> 00:01:17,010 Speaker 1: sense to me. I'm just looking at their past episodes. Okay, 20 00:01:17,050 --> 00:01:22,770 Speaker 1: of wild Card, you know who was on two weeks ago? 21 00:01:23,210 --> 00:01:27,929 Speaker 1: Someone that's so famous they're known by one name, sure, Adele. 22 00:01:28,210 --> 00:01:31,770 Speaker 1: It wasn't Share or Adel someone more? Actually, dare I 23 00:01:31,810 --> 00:01:33,290 Speaker 1: say maybe someone more famous? 24 00:01:33,970 --> 00:01:34,490 Speaker 3: Obama? 25 00:01:34,850 --> 00:01:37,970 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say as famous as Obama may be more famous. 26 00:01:38,570 --> 00:01:44,210 Speaker 1: What all right, I'll just tell you Oprah interviewed Oprah 27 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:46,850 Speaker 1: last week, she interviewed Melinda Gates. 28 00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:48,530 Speaker 3: She's got more money than you. 29 00:01:49,210 --> 00:01:51,450 Speaker 1: Oprah has more money than me. Let's see who else has. 30 00:01:52,370 --> 00:01:56,570 Speaker 2: I would say almost every guest is probably richer than you. 31 00:01:55,850 --> 00:01:58,210 Speaker 1: You know, honestly. So I'm on her website right now, 32 00:01:58,250 --> 00:02:01,010 Speaker 1: on the wild Card website, and I'm schooling, and I'm like, 33 00:02:01,330 --> 00:02:05,330 Speaker 1: I'm looking like Melinda Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Harrison Ford, I 34 00:02:05,330 --> 00:02:08,010 Speaker 1: mean crazy, And then I saw my name and I 35 00:02:08,010 --> 00:02:11,410 Speaker 1: got nervous. I thought, like, that's a mistake. 36 00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:13,450 Speaker 3: Do you think they had someone fall through that week? 37 00:02:13,770 --> 00:02:15,890 Speaker 1: Well, it's funny, okay. So I did ask her that, 38 00:02:16,049 --> 00:02:19,090 Speaker 1: like why am I on the show? Basically? And I thought, 39 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:21,450 Speaker 1: you know, the answer would be something like, oh, what 40 00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:24,130 Speaker 1: are you talking about? Like of course you you know, 41 00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:26,810 Speaker 1: But she was honest. She was like, well, you know 42 00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:29,170 Speaker 1: how it is, like sometimes you do like a biggie 43 00:02:29,210 --> 00:02:31,450 Speaker 1: and then sometimes you just do a small one or 44 00:02:31,490 --> 00:02:32,090 Speaker 1: something like that. 45 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:32,410 Speaker 3: I don't know. 46 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:34,730 Speaker 2: I think she was more compliment than that. 47 00:02:36,130 --> 00:02:36,450 Speaker 3: I don't know. 48 00:02:36,450 --> 00:02:38,010 Speaker 1: If she called me a small sounds like. 49 00:02:37,970 --> 00:02:40,450 Speaker 3: She just wanted to talk to you, which is really nice. 50 00:02:40,530 --> 00:02:44,650 Speaker 1: It is it is what thank you? That is very nice. 51 00:02:44,850 --> 00:02:48,410 Speaker 2: You know, Me and Stevie usually are in on like 52 00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:51,610 Speaker 2: the you know, we're producing the conversations you have. This 53 00:02:51,770 --> 00:02:54,169 Speaker 2: is one that we got to come to just as listeners. 54 00:02:54,250 --> 00:02:56,730 Speaker 2: We just heard the edited version at the end, and 55 00:02:56,850 --> 00:03:00,290 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. I felt like it covered a 56 00:03:00,330 --> 00:03:04,090 Speaker 2: lot of territory beyond just the typical like how did 57 00:03:04,090 --> 00:03:06,090 Speaker 2: you come up with the show? Like, like I felt 58 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:07,650 Speaker 2: like you guys kind of went deep in a really 59 00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:08,650 Speaker 2: interesting way. 60 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:11,850 Speaker 1: I got an interesting text from my mother in law 61 00:03:11,890 --> 00:03:13,570 Speaker 1: after she had listened to it. She said that she 62 00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:18,770 Speaker 1: had never had anybody express something about life and death 63 00:03:19,050 --> 00:03:22,650 Speaker 1: that she had always felt. WHOA, yeah that's cool. 64 00:03:22,770 --> 00:03:23,730 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 65 00:03:23,850 --> 00:03:27,010 Speaker 1: And after I got the text, I told my wife, 66 00:03:27,290 --> 00:03:34,930 Speaker 1: I said, Emily, you married your mother gradually. Yeah. 67 00:03:34,970 --> 00:03:37,130 Speaker 2: So we're going to listen to that episode. 68 00:03:37,370 --> 00:03:39,090 Speaker 3: I think listeners will really enjoy it. 69 00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:39,930 Speaker 2: Yeah, we did. 70 00:03:40,410 --> 00:03:44,050 Speaker 1: And if you don't, will we'll we'll send you a 71 00:03:44,170 --> 00:03:47,690 Speaker 1: check returning your full purchase price. 72 00:03:48,370 --> 00:03:51,530 Speaker 2: If you don't, try try the Oprah episode. You know 73 00:03:51,690 --> 00:03:52,450 Speaker 2: maybe I like that. 74 00:03:55,530 --> 00:04:02,570 Speaker 1: But first, a word from our sponsors, just. 75 00:04:02,490 --> 00:04:05,370 Speaker 4: A heads up. This episode does have some strong language. 76 00:04:05,970 --> 00:04:08,170 Speaker 4: Do you think people can really change? 77 00:04:08,370 --> 00:04:08,570 Speaker 3: Oh? 78 00:04:08,690 --> 00:04:11,850 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I have to believe that. I mean, 79 00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:13,930 Speaker 1: even if I don't believe it, I have to believe that. 80 00:04:13,970 --> 00:04:16,890 Speaker 1: And I think that's the struggle. It's like the paradox. 81 00:04:16,930 --> 00:04:20,210 Speaker 1: I mean, like we are who we are, but I 82 00:04:20,210 --> 00:04:23,890 Speaker 1: think as long as we're alive, we're able to change. 83 00:04:24,610 --> 00:04:27,650 Speaker 4: I'm Rachel Martin and this is wild Card, the show 84 00:04:27,690 --> 00:04:33,370 Speaker 4: where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers 85 00:04:33,450 --> 00:04:36,529 Speaker 4: questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. 86 00:04:36,849 --> 00:04:39,609 Speaker 4: They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one 87 00:04:39,770 --> 00:04:43,089 Speaker 4: back on me. My guest this week is Jonathan Goldstein. 88 00:04:43,450 --> 00:04:47,049 Speaker 1: I was writing and no one was buying what I 89 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:50,130 Speaker 1: was selling. I just couldn't get anywhere, and I just 90 00:04:50,210 --> 00:04:52,810 Speaker 1: kept doing it because I felt compelled to do it, 91 00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:54,729 Speaker 1: like a spider spinning a web. 92 00:04:55,010 --> 00:04:59,289 Speaker 4: Jonathan Goldstein believes enclosure, which is what is massively popular 93 00:04:59,369 --> 00:05:02,890 Speaker 4: podcast Heavyweight, is all about helping people move on from 94 00:05:02,890 --> 00:05:05,849 Speaker 4: some kind of unfinished business in their lives. Maybe that's 95 00:05:06,169 --> 00:05:09,289 Speaker 4: helping someone make amends or to say thank you to 96 00:05:09,330 --> 00:05:12,370 Speaker 4: a stranger, or to help a person turn a page 97 00:05:12,450 --> 00:05:15,890 Speaker 4: on a traumatic experience. And yes, the word heavy is 98 00:05:16,010 --> 00:05:18,290 Speaker 4: in the title, but it doesn't feel that way, in 99 00:05:18,409 --> 00:05:22,330 Speaker 4: large part because Jonathan is very funny, and he's also 100 00:05:22,450 --> 00:05:25,969 Speaker 4: got this lightness about him. He's the kind of guide 101 00:05:26,450 --> 00:05:28,809 Speaker 4: who makes it clear no matter what happens around the 102 00:05:28,849 --> 00:05:31,970 Speaker 4: next bend, he'll be there rooting you on. I am 103 00:05:31,969 --> 00:05:35,490 Speaker 4: so very happy to welcome Jonathan Goldstein to Wild Card. Hi. 104 00:05:36,089 --> 00:05:38,089 Speaker 1: Hi, thank you so much. It would have taken me 105 00:05:38,369 --> 00:05:41,489 Speaker 1: about ten tries to get that, and so much editing. 106 00:05:43,049 --> 00:05:45,130 Speaker 1: I don't believe you, but it is, it's true, and 107 00:05:45,250 --> 00:05:45,849 Speaker 1: yet it's true. 108 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:53,210 Speaker 4: I'm going to hold up three cards. You pick randly one, 109 00:05:53,250 --> 00:05:56,969 Speaker 4: two or three. Okay, first three cards, First three cards. 110 00:05:57,130 --> 00:05:59,770 Speaker 1: Now, one is on my left. 111 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:03,529 Speaker 4: I tend to think of one being this on my right. 112 00:06:03,969 --> 00:06:05,529 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, that's my left. 113 00:06:05,729 --> 00:06:06,089 Speaker 4: Okay. 114 00:06:06,529 --> 00:06:08,610 Speaker 1: I'm trying to make this as confusing as possible for 115 00:06:08,609 --> 00:06:13,729 Speaker 1: perfect because I'm hoping, I guess my my subconscious wish 116 00:06:13,770 --> 00:06:15,009 Speaker 1: is that you're just going to say, you know what, 117 00:06:16,330 --> 00:06:21,529 Speaker 1: forget it, We're gonna do a rerun this week. Okay, sorry, 118 00:06:21,529 --> 00:06:23,609 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, you know what. I get the impression, 119 00:06:23,729 --> 00:06:26,729 Speaker 1: as a as a child magician, that you're trying to 120 00:06:26,770 --> 00:06:29,370 Speaker 1: force the number two cards. It's poked out a little 121 00:06:29,409 --> 00:06:33,249 Speaker 1: bit more. Yeah, yeah, Okay, now you're forcing the one 122 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:37,449 Speaker 1: in the two. I just I just want to please you. 123 00:06:37,570 --> 00:06:39,049 Speaker 1: I'll take I'll take the number two. 124 00:06:40,489 --> 00:06:46,409 Speaker 4: I'm not pushing, I promise, Although I do like this question. Okay, 125 00:06:46,489 --> 00:06:50,450 Speaker 4: look what happened there? Okay, what's an ordinary place that 126 00:06:50,489 --> 00:06:53,210 Speaker 4: feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there? 127 00:06:57,250 --> 00:06:59,050 Speaker 1: Okay. You see, it's very difficult for me to talk 128 00:06:59,089 --> 00:07:03,449 Speaker 1: about places because I I'm not very place aware. Oh. 129 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:06,289 Speaker 1: I live so much of my life up in my head. 130 00:07:08,489 --> 00:07:12,050 Speaker 1: For many years, I thought of it as like internal 131 00:07:12,250 --> 00:07:15,689 Speaker 1: and then like through therapy, I've begun to see it 132 00:07:15,730 --> 00:07:21,210 Speaker 1: as disassociative. Possibly, I will say broadly, movie theaters I 133 00:07:21,250 --> 00:07:25,210 Speaker 1: are kind of like I think Pauline Kle called them 134 00:07:25,250 --> 00:07:27,250 Speaker 1: like her church, and I think that's a little bit 135 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:30,410 Speaker 1: the way that I feel about movie theaters. Yeah, and 136 00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:34,090 Speaker 1: there's one particular. I live in Minnesota, Minneapolis, and there's 137 00:07:34,090 --> 00:07:38,930 Speaker 1: an old mid century theater that used to be walking 138 00:07:38,970 --> 00:07:40,769 Speaker 1: distance from my house, and I would just go see 139 00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:43,809 Speaker 1: anything that was playing there and always sit way way 140 00:07:43,810 --> 00:07:46,050 Speaker 1: way back in the back row because I like to 141 00:07:46,050 --> 00:07:50,650 Speaker 1: take it all in by yourself, by myself. Yeah, it 142 00:07:50,690 --> 00:07:53,050 Speaker 1: had I'd like going there with people, but I you know, 143 00:07:53,410 --> 00:07:55,370 Speaker 1: if I had my drothers, it was by myself, and 144 00:07:55,410 --> 00:08:02,530 Speaker 1: that just felt like my place in the dark, looking 145 00:08:02,610 --> 00:08:06,610 Speaker 1: up at this big screen, feeling like a baby being 146 00:08:06,650 --> 00:08:10,410 Speaker 1: held by somebody. You know. Maybe that's a part of it. 147 00:08:10,489 --> 00:08:15,210 Speaker 4: I don't know what was the extraordinary part of that experience. 148 00:08:15,690 --> 00:08:20,610 Speaker 1: I think this particular theater because it's mid century. I 149 00:08:20,690 --> 00:08:23,290 Speaker 1: had the experience last Christmas of going to see It's 150 00:08:23,330 --> 00:08:27,210 Speaker 1: a Wonderful Life there and I found it to be 151 00:08:27,290 --> 00:08:34,050 Speaker 1: a very emotional experience. Like it it's just I mean, 152 00:08:34,090 --> 00:08:38,370 Speaker 1: it's just a room. But I don't know, all of 153 00:08:38,370 --> 00:08:40,530 Speaker 1: this stuff sounds very corny. I mean, my father used 154 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:43,210 Speaker 1: to watch these black and white movies and refer to 155 00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:47,330 Speaker 1: it as like a time machine, and it is kind 156 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:53,290 Speaker 1: of like that. There is this feeling of the past 157 00:08:53,370 --> 00:08:56,850 Speaker 1: kind of erasing, and you're kind of existing in all 158 00:08:56,890 --> 00:09:02,770 Speaker 1: times at once. Beyond that, it's probably just pretty banal. 159 00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:10,290 Speaker 1: It just yeah, there's just something extraordinary about in this 160 00:09:10,370 --> 00:09:12,810 Speaker 1: day and age being able to kind of like turn 161 00:09:12,850 --> 00:09:14,330 Speaker 1: your phone off and shut out the world for a 162 00:09:14,370 --> 00:09:15,170 Speaker 1: couple of hours. 163 00:09:15,370 --> 00:09:20,490 Speaker 4: I mean, thank God, hold on, there's one sound on 164 00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:22,610 Speaker 4: here I need to make sure goes away. 165 00:09:23,770 --> 00:09:28,290 Speaker 1: Is it my voice? You figured out the one thing 166 00:09:28,290 --> 00:09:29,770 Speaker 1: that's dragging down this podcast? 167 00:09:33,010 --> 00:09:34,410 Speaker 4: Okay, three more cards. 168 00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:35,890 Speaker 1: I'll take one this time. 169 00:09:37,810 --> 00:09:40,890 Speaker 4: Were you intimidated or excited about leaving your parents' house? 170 00:09:42,970 --> 00:09:47,330 Speaker 1: Leaving my parents' house? I have to say, And you know, 171 00:09:47,410 --> 00:09:49,210 Speaker 1: and this is kind of like you just don't know 172 00:09:49,210 --> 00:09:51,370 Speaker 1: what you don't know back then, But I was nothing 173 00:09:51,410 --> 00:09:55,770 Speaker 1: but excited. I didn't enjoy my childhood very much, and 174 00:09:55,810 --> 00:10:00,929 Speaker 1: the idea of being able to make my own rules 175 00:10:02,050 --> 00:10:05,970 Speaker 1: was very exciting. And I remember when I I harken 176 00:10:06,050 --> 00:10:07,410 Speaker 1: back to it now that I got a kid, I 177 00:10:07,450 --> 00:10:09,570 Speaker 1: think about how sad my mother was. She was sitting 178 00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:13,450 Speaker 1: on the edge of my bed and yelling at me 179 00:10:13,730 --> 00:10:17,170 Speaker 1: for what she called dismantling my room, for the stuff 180 00:10:17,210 --> 00:10:19,450 Speaker 1: that I was taking, you know, And all I was 181 00:10:19,490 --> 00:10:21,690 Speaker 1: taking was these milk rates. I didn't even have like 182 00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:23,890 Speaker 1: a bookshelf. It was just like I kept my books 183 00:10:23,930 --> 00:10:25,930 Speaker 1: and stuff in milk crates. And she was like very 184 00:10:26,010 --> 00:10:29,730 Speaker 1: upset that I was taking them. And I remember I 185 00:10:29,770 --> 00:10:34,570 Speaker 1: wore cowboy boots, which were a very impractical thing to 186 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:38,730 Speaker 1: wear in the summer when you're moving boxes. But there 187 00:10:38,770 --> 00:10:43,130 Speaker 1: was something about it that felt very romantic. I had 188 00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:45,650 Speaker 1: these cowboy boots that I only wore like once a year. Yeah, 189 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:48,130 Speaker 1: and it felt like that was an occasion for the 190 00:10:48,170 --> 00:10:50,010 Speaker 1: cowboy boots, even though they were slippery. 191 00:10:50,410 --> 00:10:52,690 Speaker 4: Where were you going to? Where were you moving from 192 00:10:52,730 --> 00:10:52,970 Speaker 4: and to? 193 00:10:53,330 --> 00:10:55,330 Speaker 1: So I was living in Montreal, That's where I grew up, 194 00:10:55,370 --> 00:10:57,370 Speaker 1: and I was moving to a very cheap part of 195 00:10:57,410 --> 00:10:59,930 Speaker 1: town called Pointing Charles. 196 00:11:01,570 --> 00:11:01,770 Speaker 3: Yeah. 197 00:11:01,810 --> 00:11:03,290 Speaker 1: It was probably no more than like a half an 198 00:11:03,290 --> 00:11:04,010 Speaker 1: hour car drive. 199 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:06,210 Speaker 4: Yeah, but it can be a whole world away. 200 00:11:06,970 --> 00:11:12,690 Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt great. There was a five dollars liter 201 00:11:12,850 --> 00:11:16,090 Speaker 1: of apple wine that they sold at the corner store, 202 00:11:17,130 --> 00:11:21,410 Speaker 1: and there was all these like dollar ninety nine breakfast places. 203 00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:23,970 Speaker 4: It was like nineteen thirty four. 204 00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:29,130 Speaker 1: It was yeah, back, this is back in the thirties. Yeah. 205 00:11:29,450 --> 00:11:33,650 Speaker 1: I could listen to all the jazz music I wanted. Yeah, No, 206 00:11:33,730 --> 00:11:35,410 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was just yeah, it was just 207 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:40,890 Speaker 1: the feeling of being free. It really Yeah, it felt 208 00:11:40,930 --> 00:11:41,530 Speaker 1: it felt free. 209 00:11:42,090 --> 00:11:48,850 Speaker 4: Yeah, last one in this round one, two or three? 210 00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:49,970 Speaker 1: I guess three. 211 00:11:50,730 --> 00:11:53,850 Speaker 4: Oh, I feel like I'm putting all these place questions 212 00:11:54,330 --> 00:11:57,970 Speaker 4: to you. What details do you remember about your childhood. 213 00:11:57,570 --> 00:12:05,490 Speaker 1: Bedroom, the milk crate, the wall to wall posters of 214 00:12:05,970 --> 00:12:10,410 Speaker 1: David Bowie. Nice, very big David Bowie fan. To this day, 215 00:12:10,490 --> 00:12:12,010 Speaker 1: my father will call me up on the phone if 216 00:12:12,090 --> 00:12:15,050 Speaker 1: David Bowie's on TV and I'll say, oh, your buddy's 217 00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:19,250 Speaker 1: on TV. He just didn't get it. 218 00:12:21,210 --> 00:12:23,890 Speaker 4: That he knows that you like him, and he was 219 00:12:23,930 --> 00:12:25,010 Speaker 4: like trying to connect with you. 220 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:30,490 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, just a lot of like pictures taken out 221 00:12:30,570 --> 00:12:37,130 Speaker 1: of magazines and newspapers. And I don't it must still 222 00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:38,850 Speaker 1: be the same way for kids, But it was like 223 00:12:40,410 --> 00:12:43,890 Speaker 1: your whole personality was splayed across your bedroom walls. Like 224 00:12:43,970 --> 00:12:46,090 Speaker 1: if it wasn't on your bedroom wall, then you weren't 225 00:12:46,490 --> 00:12:49,130 Speaker 1: in the world properly. You know, you had to lead 226 00:12:49,170 --> 00:12:52,530 Speaker 1: with all of these things on your wall. I had 227 00:12:52,570 --> 00:12:56,490 Speaker 1: this little card table that with a type with an 228 00:12:56,530 --> 00:12:58,850 Speaker 1: electric typewriter that I wrote on. 229 00:12:59,610 --> 00:13:00,770 Speaker 4: What were you writing at the time? 230 00:13:02,370 --> 00:13:07,570 Speaker 1: Such junk. I remember when I applied into the creative 231 00:13:07,570 --> 00:13:13,570 Speaker 1: writing program at the University in Montreal Concordia with such 232 00:13:13,650 --> 00:13:17,010 Speaker 1: high hopes because from a very young age I was 233 00:13:17,010 --> 00:13:24,370 Speaker 1: always writing and making plays and making radio plays and 234 00:13:24,490 --> 00:13:27,850 Speaker 1: you know, forcing my friends into performing in them. And 235 00:13:27,930 --> 00:13:31,290 Speaker 1: I applied put together what I thought was my best work, 236 00:13:31,650 --> 00:13:34,690 Speaker 1: and I applied to this creative writing program and the guy, 237 00:13:34,890 --> 00:13:38,450 Speaker 1: the professor running the program rejected me. And I couldn't 238 00:13:38,490 --> 00:13:40,410 Speaker 1: understand why. And I made a meeting with him, and 239 00:13:40,810 --> 00:13:43,090 Speaker 1: he said that someone that wrote the way that I 240 00:13:43,130 --> 00:13:46,090 Speaker 1: did needed a therapist more than they needed a creative 241 00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:49,370 Speaker 1: writing program, which was probably true, but was still like 242 00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:53,010 Speaker 1: a very heavy thing to hear at like eighteen, you. 243 00:13:52,970 --> 00:13:54,410 Speaker 4: Know, not helpful guidance. 244 00:13:54,890 --> 00:13:56,930 Speaker 1: But it was all like nuts. I mean, like young 245 00:13:56,970 --> 00:13:59,650 Speaker 1: men are, or at least me and my friends, I 246 00:13:59,690 --> 00:14:05,090 Speaker 1: mean we were just nuts. We were just really pushing 247 00:14:05,130 --> 00:14:08,570 Speaker 1: boundaries and you know, loved Hunter S. Thompson and Jack Kerouac. 248 00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:12,890 Speaker 4: There's nothing, no offense, but there's nothing extraordinary about that. 249 00:14:12,890 --> 00:14:16,490 Speaker 4: That's that doesn't signal depression. That's just being an angstret No. 250 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:19,250 Speaker 1: I was just depressed on top of that. Yeah, that 251 00:14:19,330 --> 00:14:22,970 Speaker 1: was that was just a whole other side project. Yeah, 252 00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:28,850 Speaker 1: various dark places, you know, very caught up in like 253 00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:33,930 Speaker 1: what's it all about? I had, like during my teen years, 254 00:14:33,970 --> 00:14:43,130 Speaker 1: like a foray into becoming religious and then kind of 255 00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:45,930 Speaker 1: losing my faith and feeling that that brought on a 256 00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:50,290 Speaker 1: really heavy depression. I wanted to believe and I just 257 00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:56,570 Speaker 1: couldn't figure my way into it. And yeah, just like 258 00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:58,570 Speaker 1: very from a very young age is very caught up 259 00:14:58,570 --> 00:15:01,290 Speaker 1: in the big questions, I guess, and not that that's 260 00:15:01,370 --> 00:15:06,370 Speaker 1: necessarily a formula for depression, but for me, I don't know, 261 00:15:06,410 --> 00:15:09,610 Speaker 1: there was something very dire and desperate about it. Remember 262 00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:12,690 Speaker 1: asking my father like at a like at a very 263 00:15:12,770 --> 00:15:16,210 Speaker 1: very young age, like where God came from? And that 264 00:15:16,330 --> 00:15:19,090 Speaker 1: feeling like a very basic question because God was given, 265 00:15:19,170 --> 00:15:21,050 Speaker 1: but like, okay, so then where does God come from? 266 00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:22,810 Speaker 1: And I remember him telling me that I should look 267 00:15:22,810 --> 00:15:27,810 Speaker 1: it up, and I had these childs encyclopedia set and 268 00:15:28,050 --> 00:15:28,850 Speaker 1: looking up. 269 00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:30,570 Speaker 4: What did you look at God? 270 00:15:30,610 --> 00:15:33,930 Speaker 1: And under g yeah, like God, And like I thought, oh, well, 271 00:15:33,970 --> 00:15:35,290 Speaker 1: I'm going to get to the bottom of this in 272 00:15:35,290 --> 00:15:39,490 Speaker 1: two seconds. Everybody wanted to hear this, and it wasn't. 273 00:15:39,890 --> 00:15:42,730 Speaker 1: I remember like looking at the Bible and thinking like, oh, 274 00:15:42,770 --> 00:15:46,290 Speaker 1: it must be before Genesis, like before but you know, 275 00:15:46,330 --> 00:15:50,490 Speaker 1: there's like no preface, there's no you know, it just 276 00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:54,410 Speaker 1: starts with the big bang and that's it. But I 277 00:15:54,410 --> 00:15:57,330 Speaker 1: don't know, it was probably also more banal, like I 278 00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:59,890 Speaker 1: probably couldn't meet any girls, you know. 279 00:16:02,170 --> 00:16:04,770 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big existential stew of things. 280 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:10,850 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very profound, very yeah. Well Schopenhower asks, is 281 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:11,330 Speaker 1: that a word? 282 00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:11,850 Speaker 3: Sure? 283 00:16:12,370 --> 00:16:15,850 Speaker 4: Now, yeah, yeah, but I think dealing with that the 284 00:16:15,970 --> 00:16:19,450 Speaker 4: uncertainty of life at that end, but. 285 00:16:19,450 --> 00:16:20,970 Speaker 1: I couldn't see. Yeah, but I know, you know, it's 286 00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:23,130 Speaker 1: still something that I struggle with. I mean, I just 287 00:16:23,170 --> 00:16:27,010 Speaker 1: want to really let go and and give myself over 288 00:16:27,130 --> 00:16:31,370 Speaker 1: to life. But I don't know, there's always just been 289 00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:36,410 Speaker 1: this feeling of like if you're not totally invested in it, 290 00:16:36,410 --> 00:16:38,610 Speaker 1: it'll make death easier. You know, like if you live 291 00:16:38,650 --> 00:16:43,570 Speaker 1: your life as though like you're kind of you know, 292 00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:46,690 Speaker 1: here's life and here's death, and they kind of are 293 00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:49,210 Speaker 1: side by side, adjacent to one another on a shelf, 294 00:16:49,890 --> 00:16:56,530 Speaker 1: it'll be more of a lateral move. Good night, folks, 295 00:16:56,730 --> 00:16:58,890 Speaker 1: it's not too it's not too late to like run 296 00:16:58,930 --> 00:16:59,490 Speaker 1: the rerun. 297 00:17:03,290 --> 00:17:06,290 Speaker 4: I'm just trying to understand it. It means putting as 298 00:17:06,369 --> 00:17:10,290 Speaker 4: much effort into the thinking about death as the thinking 299 00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:13,850 Speaker 4: about life, and they are equal experiences, and so then 300 00:17:13,889 --> 00:17:14,850 Speaker 4: it's a lateral. 301 00:17:14,689 --> 00:17:18,170 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're sort of like braced for death from 302 00:17:18,169 --> 00:17:22,090 Speaker 1: a young age, you know, if you don't fully you know, 303 00:17:22,209 --> 00:17:26,649 Speaker 1: throw yourself into the whole life thing. Then when the 304 00:17:26,689 --> 00:17:28,609 Speaker 1: carpet is yanked out from under you, you're going to 305 00:17:28,649 --> 00:17:29,609 Speaker 1: be braced for your fall. 306 00:17:29,770 --> 00:17:31,969 Speaker 4: No, I get it. I like do this in my 307 00:17:32,050 --> 00:17:36,889 Speaker 4: own mind. I am the worst case scenario person. It 308 00:17:36,970 --> 00:17:38,609 Speaker 4: is how I live My life is to prepare for 309 00:17:38,649 --> 00:17:42,770 Speaker 4: the worst things, and so I practice not being around anymore. 310 00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:43,369 Speaker 4: It's dark. 311 00:17:43,889 --> 00:17:46,649 Speaker 1: But and you don't want to model that for your No, I. 312 00:17:46,530 --> 00:17:49,330 Speaker 4: Have two of them. I don't think that's a great 313 00:17:49,330 --> 00:17:51,210 Speaker 4: way to live. But it actually doesn't bring me down. 314 00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:54,090 Speaker 4: I don't get bummed about it. It just go there 315 00:17:54,129 --> 00:17:58,009 Speaker 4: for a little bit. I try it on, and then 316 00:17:58,010 --> 00:18:00,330 Speaker 4: I come back and I'm like, everyone was okay. Everyone 317 00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:03,730 Speaker 4: when I was gone in my imaginary death, everyone grieved 318 00:18:03,770 --> 00:18:08,090 Speaker 4: and then they lived beautiful lives and then it was fine. 319 00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:11,929 Speaker 1: Oh that's wonderful. So you're thinking about your own absence 320 00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:17,409 Speaker 1: from the perspective of those you love, Yeah, I guess 321 00:18:16,649 --> 00:18:21,489 Speaker 1: that's the mark of a superior human being. That's not 322 00:18:21,570 --> 00:18:24,329 Speaker 1: how I was thinking about it. I was thinking more, 323 00:18:24,409 --> 00:18:27,170 Speaker 1: fuck all, y'all. No, no, no, I'm just kidding. 324 00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:52,330 Speaker 4: Let's talk about your show for a few minutes, because 325 00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:54,850 Speaker 4: it is a wonderful thing. It is a wonderful thing 326 00:18:54,850 --> 00:18:55,449 Speaker 4: that you have made. 327 00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:55,969 Speaker 1: Thank you. 328 00:18:56,090 --> 00:19:00,369 Speaker 4: Have you wait been nine years? Over nine years? 329 00:19:00,409 --> 00:19:02,649 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were doing their ninth season. 330 00:19:02,810 --> 00:19:05,330 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a little break the show was cancel 331 00:19:05,409 --> 00:19:10,209 Speaker 4: was yeah, at the end of twenty twenty three, and 332 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:15,530 Speaker 4: then it found new life and it's as a listener, 333 00:19:15,850 --> 00:19:19,049 Speaker 4: I think this is a wonderful thing. I'm sure when 334 00:19:19,090 --> 00:19:21,609 Speaker 4: it was canceled you were like, yeah, maybe maybe I'm 335 00:19:21,609 --> 00:19:24,010 Speaker 4: going to do something else, lean into my writing and 336 00:19:24,689 --> 00:19:28,450 Speaker 4: you know, but but you were given this other shot. 337 00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:30,810 Speaker 4: What do you love about making this show? 338 00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:35,330 Speaker 1: Well, the simplest is that I like having a job. 339 00:19:36,169 --> 00:19:38,609 Speaker 1: I found out when the show was canceled that I 340 00:19:38,730 --> 00:19:41,529 Speaker 1: wasn't very good at not having a job. I had 341 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:43,889 Speaker 1: been kind of on various deadlines, Like before this, I 342 00:19:43,889 --> 00:19:47,649 Speaker 1: had a show in Canada on the CBC for eleven years. 343 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:51,610 Speaker 1: It had been just kind of like twenty years of deadlines. 344 00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:56,969 Speaker 1: This is wiretap right wire type. Yeah, that's right. I 345 00:19:57,010 --> 00:20:00,890 Speaker 1: found not having a job difficult, and being back at 346 00:20:00,929 --> 00:20:03,369 Speaker 1: it has given me a renewed appreciation. But I love 347 00:20:03,810 --> 00:20:09,249 Speaker 1: I think I love it is a way from me 348 00:20:09,449 --> 00:20:17,489 Speaker 1: to feel things and live, interact with people, and life 349 00:20:17,770 --> 00:20:21,649 Speaker 1: in a way that for me is preferred. I guess 350 00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:26,369 Speaker 1: there's a certain kind of safety about being alone in 351 00:20:26,409 --> 00:20:29,490 Speaker 1: the attics studio a lot of the time and thinking 352 00:20:29,530 --> 00:20:31,929 Speaker 1: things through in a way that I can't in real time. 353 00:20:32,250 --> 00:20:34,369 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm great in real time. 354 00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:36,850 Speaker 4: We should just take a second and explain to people 355 00:20:36,889 --> 00:20:39,330 Speaker 4: who haven't heard the show. I mean I nodded to 356 00:20:39,369 --> 00:20:42,570 Speaker 4: it a little bit in the intro, but you really 357 00:20:42,609 --> 00:20:46,169 Speaker 4: are getting into very intimate parts of people's lives. You're 358 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:53,570 Speaker 4: helping them through specific regrets and longing and helping them 359 00:20:53,649 --> 00:20:58,169 Speaker 4: find closure, like someone who's you know, did something to 360 00:20:58,209 --> 00:21:02,449 Speaker 4: someone wronged them twenty thirty years ago. More. You literally 361 00:21:02,530 --> 00:21:07,649 Speaker 4: go find that person for them and help them sometimes 362 00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:12,370 Speaker 4: come confront them and have a one on one exchange. 363 00:21:12,369 --> 00:21:14,529 Speaker 4: Sometimes you don't find the person, but somehow through the 364 00:21:14,609 --> 00:21:18,369 Speaker 4: journey they've been able to understand their life in a 365 00:21:18,409 --> 00:21:22,450 Speaker 4: more intimate way. I mean, it's very emotionally intense work. 366 00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:25,010 Speaker 4: I mean, you say you do this work in part 367 00:21:25,090 --> 00:21:28,529 Speaker 4: just to feel things. That's a lot of feelings, Jonathan, Like, 368 00:21:28,570 --> 00:21:34,850 Speaker 4: it's a lot of living that you are You're navigating 369 00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:37,170 Speaker 4: through other people's experience. 370 00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:45,050 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's definitely, like you say closure, I think 371 00:21:45,129 --> 00:21:47,289 Speaker 1: like that is. Yeah, that is always kind of like 372 00:21:47,369 --> 00:21:50,330 Speaker 1: the imaginary finish line. I don't think most of the 373 00:21:50,369 --> 00:21:53,330 Speaker 1: episodes get there, but it is true what you also 374 00:21:53,369 --> 00:21:57,090 Speaker 1: say about the process of getting there, and sometimes it's 375 00:21:57,689 --> 00:22:00,050 Speaker 1: the thing that people are searching for is somewhat of 376 00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:04,330 Speaker 1: a mcguffin. Like there was one episode called Scott where 377 00:22:04,810 --> 00:22:10,530 Speaker 1: this former heroin addict had sold all of like many 378 00:22:10,609 --> 00:22:13,809 Speaker 1: prize possessions that belonged to his father, among which was 379 00:22:13,889 --> 00:22:18,770 Speaker 1: this gun that his grandfather, his father's father had taken 380 00:22:18,810 --> 00:22:21,810 Speaker 1: off a Nazi in World War Two, and he had 381 00:22:21,850 --> 00:22:27,369 Speaker 1: sold this this gun to a pawn chop to buy 382 00:22:27,449 --> 00:22:29,810 Speaker 1: drugs and he wanted to get the gun back and 383 00:22:29,889 --> 00:22:31,529 Speaker 1: he felt like he owed it to his father and 384 00:22:32,490 --> 00:22:35,449 Speaker 1: spoiler alert, he gets the gun after I mean, I 385 00:22:35,490 --> 00:22:37,689 Speaker 1: didn't think we were ever going to find this gun again. 386 00:22:38,209 --> 00:22:41,090 Speaker 1: It might have taken him a couple of years. We 387 00:22:41,209 --> 00:22:43,489 Speaker 1: finally got it. He gives it to his dad and 388 00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:48,889 Speaker 1: his dad's like, oh, thank you, you know, and it's 389 00:22:48,970 --> 00:22:51,649 Speaker 1: just sort of like Jesus Christ, like that's not going 390 00:22:51,689 --> 00:22:54,410 Speaker 1: to make a very satisfying end. It is the closure 391 00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:57,210 Speaker 1: that we thought we wanted. But then it turns out 392 00:22:57,250 --> 00:22:59,409 Speaker 1: that the conversation he ends up having with his father, 393 00:23:00,850 --> 00:23:04,010 Speaker 1: the gun is merely a pass key that allows us 394 00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:09,209 Speaker 1: into this emotional space where his dad is able to 395 00:23:09,250 --> 00:23:11,609 Speaker 1: talk about his feelings about his dad and that gun, 396 00:23:11,689 --> 00:23:15,850 Speaker 1: which he never liked, and he had mixed feelings about 397 00:23:15,889 --> 00:23:20,729 Speaker 1: his own father, And it ends up getting to this 398 00:23:20,810 --> 00:23:22,850 Speaker 1: point where the dad's able to say to him like, 399 00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:25,770 Speaker 1: I don't really give a shit about the gun. I 400 00:23:25,810 --> 00:23:28,850 Speaker 1: was afraid of losing you, and I'm so glad to 401 00:23:28,929 --> 00:23:30,850 Speaker 1: have you back, and I don't care about getting the 402 00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:34,210 Speaker 1: gun back, but I got you back. And it's sort 403 00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:37,330 Speaker 1: of like we spent two years searching for the gun 404 00:23:38,770 --> 00:23:40,890 Speaker 1: just to get us to this other place. So it's 405 00:23:40,889 --> 00:23:44,090 Speaker 1: sort of like sometimes like if things wrap up too 406 00:23:44,129 --> 00:23:47,570 Speaker 1: neatly and too quickly, it's not good. There needs to 407 00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:52,210 Speaker 1: be that struggle in order to get to really get someplace, 408 00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:55,770 Speaker 1: and you know, to get someplace emotionally and internal, and 409 00:23:56,330 --> 00:23:58,850 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to dramatize that. You know, sometimes you 410 00:23:58,929 --> 00:24:01,090 Speaker 1: just need the gun. You need that mcguffin. 411 00:24:02,929 --> 00:24:06,889 Speaker 4: I really love interactions with strangers. They make me very happy, 412 00:24:07,330 --> 00:24:10,889 Speaker 4: They give me life, They make me feel connected and alive. 413 00:24:11,369 --> 00:24:13,129 Speaker 4: And I think you might love strangers even more than 414 00:24:13,129 --> 00:24:18,409 Speaker 4: I do, because it's your whole thing. Is like a 415 00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:21,609 Speaker 4: random person will come into your inbox and all of 416 00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:25,289 Speaker 4: a sudden, you, I imagine you fall in love a 417 00:24:25,290 --> 00:24:29,090 Speaker 4: little bit with them and their plight or their struggle. 418 00:24:30,169 --> 00:24:36,049 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's complicated. When you said that about like 419 00:24:37,090 --> 00:24:42,050 Speaker 1: loving to talk to strangers, I don't even know if 420 00:24:42,050 --> 00:24:44,169 Speaker 1: this is really if this makes sense, but it occurred 421 00:24:44,169 --> 00:24:45,649 Speaker 1: to me this morning. I was on a run and 422 00:24:45,689 --> 00:24:49,530 Speaker 1: I saw these two kids. There's something very sweet about 423 00:24:49,570 --> 00:24:54,330 Speaker 1: the two of them. They were they were wandering, you know, wandering. 424 00:24:54,929 --> 00:24:57,889 Speaker 1: I was kind of like a on a running path 425 00:24:57,929 --> 00:24:59,929 Speaker 1: and they were just taking a leisurely stroll and they 426 00:24:59,929 --> 00:25:02,929 Speaker 1: were coming towards me, and they had such open faces. 427 00:25:03,810 --> 00:25:06,930 Speaker 1: They looked like they were wearing pajama bottoms. Maybe that's 428 00:25:06,929 --> 00:25:09,329 Speaker 1: just what kids do. It had the affect of like 429 00:25:09,409 --> 00:25:12,449 Speaker 1: feeling like they just rolled out of bed and maybe 430 00:25:12,490 --> 00:25:18,770 Speaker 1: they were, you know, in love and we're just happy 431 00:25:18,810 --> 00:25:21,850 Speaker 1: to be spending the morning together, and or maybe they 432 00:25:21,889 --> 00:25:23,770 Speaker 1: were on ecstasy. I don't know, but they just their 433 00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:28,810 Speaker 1: faces just seem so open, and I felt like stopping 434 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:33,250 Speaker 1: and telling them that that's a wonderful thing to see. 435 00:25:33,770 --> 00:25:35,729 Speaker 1: And then I also thought about how like if I 436 00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:39,449 Speaker 1: was their age, that would be like yeah, and made 437 00:25:39,449 --> 00:25:43,250 Speaker 1: me also it makes me aware of just like how 438 00:25:43,609 --> 00:25:47,090 Speaker 1: like clenched my faces like I'm just waiting to get 439 00:25:47,129 --> 00:25:49,289 Speaker 1: punched in the face, and like I'm just all like 440 00:25:50,530 --> 00:25:53,689 Speaker 1: you know, and it's my natural like at this age, 441 00:25:53,929 --> 00:25:55,889 Speaker 1: I mean, this is what my face has become. And 442 00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:59,250 Speaker 1: I realized that a part of my fear is going 443 00:25:59,290 --> 00:26:01,690 Speaker 1: through life with my face open like those two kids, 444 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:03,530 Speaker 1: for fear that a weirdo like me is going to 445 00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:06,889 Speaker 1: come up to them. And so I kind of keep 446 00:26:06,929 --> 00:26:09,609 Speaker 1: I've kind of like, after fifty odd years, my face 447 00:26:09,649 --> 00:26:10,570 Speaker 1: has just become this. 448 00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:12,770 Speaker 4: Closed and don't talk to me. 449 00:26:12,850 --> 00:26:15,409 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like what am I afraid? What would be 450 00:26:15,490 --> 00:26:17,529 Speaker 1: the worst case scenario if I did walk through the 451 00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:22,570 Speaker 1: through the world with an open face and meeting people's 452 00:26:22,609 --> 00:26:26,969 Speaker 1: gaze and not afraid of having people approach me, strangers 453 00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:29,050 Speaker 1: approach me? What would be the worst case scenario? 454 00:26:29,609 --> 00:26:32,489 Speaker 4: But you've developed a way, You've made a whole job 455 00:26:32,609 --> 00:26:37,729 Speaker 4: for yourself where you get to meet strangers under your. 456 00:26:37,810 --> 00:26:42,809 Speaker 1: Infety in a way like in with parameters and the context. 457 00:26:46,929 --> 00:26:48,929 Speaker 4: Round two insights cars and. 458 00:26:48,929 --> 00:26:49,729 Speaker 1: I haven't even skipped a. 459 00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:52,369 Speaker 4: Flipped but you're not judged either. 460 00:26:52,369 --> 00:26:54,770 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what's in there. There might 461 00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:57,209 Speaker 1: be something that's so embarrassing. So that's why I've been 462 00:26:57,209 --> 00:26:59,449 Speaker 1: saving them. We've moved from the yellow carts of the 463 00:26:59,449 --> 00:27:02,250 Speaker 1: blue cards, so I believe. So I can only imagine 464 00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:02,690 Speaker 1: that this is. 465 00:27:02,649 --> 00:27:08,929 Speaker 4: Getting more intense, okay, one two three one. What's a 466 00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:15,090 Speaker 4: sound that instantly puts you at ease? That's a person 467 00:27:15,129 --> 00:27:20,690 Speaker 4: who lives in sounds. I think a laugh, maybe anyone 468 00:27:20,689 --> 00:27:23,330 Speaker 4: in particular or all of them, all the laughing. 469 00:27:26,290 --> 00:27:28,770 Speaker 1: And this is coming from someone who does not, unfortunately 470 00:27:28,810 --> 00:27:30,810 Speaker 1: for me, like have an easy laugh. Being in the 471 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:32,969 Speaker 1: business that I am in, it would be a nice 472 00:27:33,449 --> 00:27:39,169 Speaker 1: signal to somebody of like, hey, I'm enjoying you. But 473 00:27:39,449 --> 00:27:44,570 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, all kinds of different laughs. It lets 474 00:27:44,609 --> 00:27:47,369 Speaker 1: me feel like the person isn't taking me too seriously. 475 00:27:50,530 --> 00:27:54,490 Speaker 1: I feel dangerous when I'm being taken too seriously. 476 00:27:55,409 --> 00:27:58,010 Speaker 4: You feel dangerous or the situation that erous. 477 00:27:58,169 --> 00:28:00,130 Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I shouldn't be taken too seriously. 478 00:28:00,169 --> 00:28:02,570 Speaker 1: And I feel like my old friends don't take me 479 00:28:02,609 --> 00:28:08,050 Speaker 1: that seriously. Like my friend Jackie, who opens the show 480 00:28:08,649 --> 00:28:13,850 Speaker 1: who I phone, who has a very endearing, distinct, kind 481 00:28:13,889 --> 00:28:18,249 Speaker 1: of insane laugh. I like hearing it. It makes me 482 00:28:18,369 --> 00:28:24,009 Speaker 1: feel like it makes me feel free to say all 483 00:28:24,090 --> 00:28:26,889 Speaker 1: kinds of really dumb things, you know, because I feel 484 00:28:26,889 --> 00:28:29,050 Speaker 1: like I'm not hurting anybody. When I hear the laugh, 485 00:28:31,250 --> 00:28:34,769 Speaker 1: it's a signal that I'm not hurting anybody. And I 486 00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:37,649 Speaker 1: think that's a big eie. I have a friend who 487 00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:40,130 Speaker 1: told me a while ago, He's like, is this stupid? 488 00:28:40,130 --> 00:28:41,850 Speaker 1: I go through life just always being afraid that I'm 489 00:28:41,850 --> 00:28:44,330 Speaker 1: gonna get yelled at? And I was like, no, I 490 00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:46,930 Speaker 1: think I relate to that. You're afraid that you're gonna 491 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:52,570 Speaker 1: hurt somebody get yelled at or Yeah, you just want 492 00:28:52,570 --> 00:28:56,370 Speaker 1: to be You just want to feel like you're not 493 00:28:57,970 --> 00:29:00,850 Speaker 1: you're not messing anything up. And I don't know. Yeah, 494 00:29:00,970 --> 00:29:02,330 Speaker 1: laugh is like a really nice thing. 495 00:29:02,490 --> 00:29:05,490 Speaker 4: Yeah, one, two or three? 496 00:29:06,530 --> 00:29:07,330 Speaker 1: Three? 497 00:29:07,810 --> 00:29:13,890 Speaker 4: How much do you rely on the validation of others? 498 00:29:14,770 --> 00:29:19,090 Speaker 1: I think, in some ways not a lot, because you know, 499 00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:23,410 Speaker 1: hearkening back to that story about trying to get into 500 00:29:23,410 --> 00:29:26,610 Speaker 1: a writer's program when I was eighteen, for a very 501 00:29:26,690 --> 00:29:31,410 Speaker 1: long time, I mean, I was writing and no one 502 00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:33,770 Speaker 1: was buying what I was selling like and I was 503 00:29:33,810 --> 00:29:36,289 Speaker 1: getting rejections and I'm not talking like big magazines, but 504 00:29:36,450 --> 00:29:41,090 Speaker 1: like zines and chapbooks, and no one would I couldn't. 505 00:29:41,130 --> 00:29:44,010 Speaker 1: I just couldn't get anywhere. And I just kept doing 506 00:29:44,050 --> 00:29:46,969 Speaker 1: it because I felt compelled to do it, like a 507 00:29:47,010 --> 00:29:50,690 Speaker 1: spider spinning a web, like I I And in that sense, 508 00:29:50,770 --> 00:29:54,769 Speaker 1: I think I was kind of like free of needing 509 00:29:54,850 --> 00:29:58,810 Speaker 1: any validation. And maybe that's just the cockiness of youth 510 00:29:58,930 --> 00:30:01,450 Speaker 1: or not knowing any better, but I think I still 511 00:30:01,490 --> 00:30:03,810 Speaker 1: have that. I think I would still be doing what 512 00:30:03,850 --> 00:30:08,290 Speaker 1: I'm doing regardless of whether anyone liked it. That being said, 513 00:30:10,050 --> 00:30:14,370 Speaker 1: I do like to know what people are thinking. I 514 00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:16,930 Speaker 1: think laughter, you know, getting a laugh or something is 515 00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:22,249 Speaker 1: a form of validation, and I like that. 516 00:30:22,250 --> 00:30:25,090 Speaker 4: That sounds like just the right healthy amount of caring. 517 00:30:25,730 --> 00:30:28,690 Speaker 4: Not that you need me to validate your sense of 518 00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:30,250 Speaker 4: whether validation is important. 519 00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:48,209 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm doing something healthy. 520 00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:54,090 Speaker 4: We're moving to round three. 521 00:30:54,370 --> 00:30:56,850 Speaker 1: Beliefs, all right, Oh, the red cards? 522 00:30:57,090 --> 00:31:01,130 Speaker 4: Red cards one, two, or three? 523 00:31:02,330 --> 00:31:03,569 Speaker 1: I'll take one. 524 00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:06,010 Speaker 4: Do you believe in ghosts? 525 00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:13,050 Speaker 1: I don't not believe in them. I don't know that 526 00:31:13,090 --> 00:31:17,570 Speaker 1: I've ever seen one or experienced one, but I believe 527 00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:21,010 Speaker 1: in the idea of them. We moved in a couple 528 00:31:21,010 --> 00:31:25,930 Speaker 1: of years ago into this turn of the century Victorian 529 00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:30,009 Speaker 1: that I catch all kinds of weird smells in that 530 00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:33,410 Speaker 1: I feel are kind of like ghostly remnants of people 531 00:31:33,410 --> 00:31:36,410 Speaker 1: that lived here, that died here probably. 532 00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:43,370 Speaker 4: And do sensations like that? Are they pleasant to you? 533 00:31:43,570 --> 00:31:47,170 Speaker 4: Is that something you enjoy thinking about or is it disconcerting? 534 00:31:48,250 --> 00:31:48,370 Speaker 2: Mm? 535 00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:49,810 Speaker 4: Or neutral? 536 00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:55,410 Speaker 1: Neutral? Yeah, Like I'll smell cigarettes all in a sudden 537 00:31:55,770 --> 00:31:58,530 Speaker 1: and I'll be like, that's so weird. So there must 538 00:31:58,530 --> 00:32:01,570 Speaker 1: have been there's something about the weather that's bringing out 539 00:32:01,570 --> 00:32:05,770 Speaker 1: the smell. But it you know, of some long dead 540 00:32:05,770 --> 00:32:09,570 Speaker 1: smoker who lived here. It feels like you just kind 541 00:32:09,570 --> 00:32:10,650 Speaker 1: of passing through. 542 00:32:12,050 --> 00:32:12,130 Speaker 3: That. 543 00:32:12,209 --> 00:32:17,249 Speaker 1: Maybe one day you'll just be a faint smell. I 544 00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:20,489 Speaker 1: think it's probably more towards the positive. Yeah, if I 545 00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:25,890 Speaker 1: had to, if I had to choose, yeah, yeah, I mean, 546 00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:28,650 Speaker 1: you know, if I saw someone crab walking on the 547 00:32:28,690 --> 00:32:33,410 Speaker 1: ceiling less so, but just something subtle, you like a 548 00:32:33,450 --> 00:32:37,810 Speaker 1: wisp face right right, like a kind of spectral sort 549 00:32:37,810 --> 00:32:43,290 Speaker 1: of you know, zero mostelle. Maybe one of the first 550 00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:46,530 Speaker 1: long text exchanges I had with my wife was about ghosts. 551 00:32:46,770 --> 00:32:49,529 Speaker 1: She had finished reading a book about ghosts, and I thought, wow, 552 00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:51,090 Speaker 1: this is a real kooky chick. 553 00:32:52,330 --> 00:32:54,850 Speaker 4: Tell me more. I mean not not you tell me more, 554 00:32:54,890 --> 00:32:57,410 Speaker 4: but you were like, tell me more. I'm into this. Yeah. 555 00:32:57,410 --> 00:32:58,650 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, bring it on. 556 00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:05,810 Speaker 4: Yeah, three more cards one two or three two? Have 557 00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:07,970 Speaker 4: you made peace with mortality? 558 00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:13,090 Speaker 1: Some days I feel like, yeah, take me, this is 559 00:33:13,130 --> 00:33:15,930 Speaker 1: a good day to die, and I feel like one 560 00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:18,890 Speaker 1: of these stoic guys in a spaghetti western. And then 561 00:33:19,050 --> 00:33:23,529 Speaker 1: other days, no, I guess it. Really it's crazy to 562 00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:26,130 Speaker 1: think that something like that would be so mood dependent. 563 00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:27,530 Speaker 1: Is that possible? 564 00:33:27,650 --> 00:33:28,730 Speaker 4: It's so final. 565 00:33:30,610 --> 00:33:35,490 Speaker 1: Sometimes it just feels okay, and sometimes it just doesn't. 566 00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:39,650 Speaker 1: Sometimes it just doesn't make sense, and then other times 567 00:33:39,690 --> 00:33:42,209 Speaker 1: it just feels like, well, we all got to go sometime. 568 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:46,130 Speaker 1: That's one of the things I liked about drinking, was 569 00:33:46,170 --> 00:33:51,370 Speaker 1: that feeling of like of getting philosophical about that, like 570 00:33:52,290 --> 00:33:56,130 Speaker 1: I was someone I'm not a great flyer, and that 571 00:33:56,330 --> 00:33:59,850 Speaker 1: was when I relied the most on. You know, I 572 00:33:59,850 --> 00:34:05,009 Speaker 1: would travel with the little bottles of booze in my pockets, 573 00:34:06,010 --> 00:34:08,330 Speaker 1: so it just feeling them there gave me a sense 574 00:34:08,370 --> 00:34:13,370 Speaker 1: of security. And sometimes during turbulence. I'd pop one of 575 00:34:13,410 --> 00:34:15,730 Speaker 1: those or two of those, and it just felt kind 576 00:34:15,770 --> 00:34:18,490 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, you know, we all got to go sometime. 577 00:34:19,130 --> 00:34:28,410 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that AH planes often summon internal conversations 578 00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:30,650 Speaker 4: about living and dying. I mean for me for sure 579 00:34:30,730 --> 00:34:31,529 Speaker 4: too as well. 580 00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:34,210 Speaker 1: But but and sometimes it's like sorry, go ahead, no no, 581 00:34:34,450 --> 00:34:36,290 Speaker 1: you say no, no, I was just going to ask 582 00:34:36,330 --> 00:34:38,410 Speaker 1: you like it. It's that's sometimes not a bad feeling. 583 00:34:38,410 --> 00:34:40,730 Speaker 1: It's sort of like you feel like crying sometimes when 584 00:34:40,770 --> 00:34:42,850 Speaker 1: you watch sentimental movies on a flat. 585 00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:46,770 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and the complains are my favorite place to cry. Yeah, 586 00:34:47,290 --> 00:34:51,250 Speaker 4: it feels like safe. There's like strangers around and that 587 00:34:51,570 --> 00:34:53,810 Speaker 4: I find comforting. One of them might say something to 588 00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:56,370 Speaker 4: me and I might be open to that or I 589 00:34:56,450 --> 00:34:58,570 Speaker 4: might not. I don't know, but I like the idea 590 00:34:58,610 --> 00:34:59,330 Speaker 4: that it could happen. 591 00:35:01,370 --> 00:35:02,170 Speaker 1: What did they say to you? 592 00:35:03,850 --> 00:35:04,010 Speaker 3: Oh? 593 00:35:04,090 --> 00:35:06,970 Speaker 4: Just the possibility that they could say, are you okay? 594 00:35:07,170 --> 00:35:09,290 Speaker 4: And then that look at it makes me emotional thinking 595 00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:13,650 Speaker 4: about it. That breaks me. When you're in a vulnerable 596 00:35:13,690 --> 00:35:20,290 Speaker 4: place and a stranger extends themselves at all, it makes 597 00:35:20,330 --> 00:35:26,850 Speaker 4: me feel good. But now I pivoted this to myself 598 00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:27,650 Speaker 4: and I didn't want. 599 00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:29,490 Speaker 1: To No, no, no, no, not at all. What do 600 00:35:29,530 --> 00:35:30,930 Speaker 1: you say? What do you say if someone asks you 601 00:35:30,930 --> 00:35:32,370 Speaker 1: are you okay? Do you say not at all? Or 602 00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:33,170 Speaker 1: do you say yes? 603 00:35:34,450 --> 00:35:34,610 Speaker 3: Oh? 604 00:35:34,610 --> 00:35:40,570 Speaker 4: I'm thinking of one circumstance in particular, and I said no, 605 00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:44,250 Speaker 4: And I didn't want to talk about I didn't want 606 00:35:44,290 --> 00:35:47,610 Speaker 4: to say anymore. But I really appreciated that. 607 00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:49,770 Speaker 1: They asked, did you tell them that? 608 00:35:51,730 --> 00:35:51,890 Speaker 3: No? 609 00:35:51,970 --> 00:35:55,210 Speaker 4: But I said no, but it's okay, And that was it. 610 00:35:56,890 --> 00:36:02,610 Speaker 4: And and I think, am I trying too hard to 611 00:36:02,610 --> 00:36:05,250 Speaker 4: sew this together? But I do think there's something about 612 00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:09,850 Speaker 4: being suspended in air in a situation where you could 613 00:36:09,930 --> 00:36:15,290 Speaker 4: die because planes don't make sense, and those being more 614 00:36:15,290 --> 00:36:17,970 Speaker 4: truthful spaces because what the hell do you have to lose? 615 00:36:19,850 --> 00:36:23,490 Speaker 4: So I get I get the plain thing for sure. 616 00:36:24,450 --> 00:36:26,330 Speaker 1: And I also think that, yeah, yeah, you said no, 617 00:36:27,490 --> 00:36:28,810 Speaker 1: I know, please please no. 618 00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:33,130 Speaker 4: I was just going to say you you were saying 619 00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:36,890 Speaker 4: at the beginning that it feels like dangerous to be 620 00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:41,610 Speaker 4: so dependent on one's emotional state to determine whether or 621 00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:46,529 Speaker 4: not one is okay with dying on a particular day. 622 00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:48,890 Speaker 3: But I all, maybe this is just me. 623 00:36:49,410 --> 00:36:51,650 Speaker 4: I think that's a sign of a healthy person who 624 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:56,410 Speaker 4: wakes up and and like observes the question, you know, 625 00:36:56,970 --> 00:37:01,610 Speaker 4: like how is my life? And and when you're saying 626 00:37:01,930 --> 00:37:04,210 Speaker 4: today's a good day to go, what you're really saying 627 00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:06,690 Speaker 4: is I have lived a good life. 628 00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:09,930 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if this is a quick story, 629 00:37:09,970 --> 00:37:15,009 Speaker 1: but I felt I feel like I kind of got 630 00:37:15,370 --> 00:37:18,170 Speaker 1: felt like I got the license to think about it 631 00:37:18,210 --> 00:37:21,130 Speaker 1: in that way. From a story, a heavyweight story. It 632 00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:24,890 Speaker 1: was about this woman who was in her forties and 633 00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:27,170 Speaker 1: felt like her life had kind of gone off track 634 00:37:27,250 --> 00:37:34,610 Speaker 1: because her foster mother didn't allow her to stay in 635 00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:38,330 Speaker 1: stay with basketball because her grades weren't good enough, and 636 00:37:38,570 --> 00:37:40,330 Speaker 1: she felt like her life would have been better if 637 00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:42,770 Speaker 1: she could have pursued basketball, she would have gone in 638 00:37:42,810 --> 00:37:46,970 Speaker 1: a scholarship. And so we went and found this foster 639 00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:48,890 Speaker 1: mother who she hadn't spoken to in years, who was 640 00:37:48,970 --> 00:37:51,690 Speaker 1: now this ninety four year old woman, to ask her 641 00:37:51,730 --> 00:37:55,050 Speaker 1: why why didn't she allow her to pursue basketball when 642 00:37:55,050 --> 00:37:58,170 Speaker 1: she saw it was her one passion. And this woman 643 00:37:58,330 --> 00:38:00,290 Speaker 1: was a tough old bird, like it would have been 644 00:38:00,330 --> 00:38:02,650 Speaker 1: so easy to say, oh, I'm sorry, and like she 645 00:38:02,890 --> 00:38:05,970 Speaker 1: just wouldn't, and she had had a hard life herself, 646 00:38:06,730 --> 00:38:09,970 Speaker 1: and I and I felt it was almost like she 647 00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:13,730 Speaker 1: was unclear on the concept of regret, you know what 648 00:38:13,770 --> 00:38:15,010 Speaker 1: I mean, And I was trying to explain it to 649 00:38:15,050 --> 00:38:16,450 Speaker 1: her and she was like, no, no, no, I know what 650 00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:19,570 Speaker 1: you're saying, and I don't. I honestly don't know if 651 00:38:19,650 --> 00:38:21,410 Speaker 1: I had a chance to do it over again with her, 652 00:38:21,450 --> 00:38:23,290 Speaker 1: whether I would have done it differently. And I think 653 00:38:23,290 --> 00:38:26,410 Speaker 1: it really depends on my mood, what mood I was in. 654 00:38:26,610 --> 00:38:26,850 Speaker 3: Wow. 655 00:38:26,850 --> 00:38:28,970 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, Wow, that is something that is 656 00:38:29,010 --> 00:38:31,290 Speaker 1: seldom acknowledged. It is, you know what I mean. 657 00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:33,930 Speaker 4: It is, but it isn't the whole ballgame. Not to 658 00:38:34,690 --> 00:38:36,489 Speaker 4: make that bad pun but it. 659 00:38:36,450 --> 00:38:41,770 Speaker 1: Is like, yeah, I get or more of it then 660 00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:44,730 Speaker 1: we acknowledge. You know, just how drunk a lot of 661 00:38:44,730 --> 00:38:48,050 Speaker 1: these Founding fathers were when they were coming up with 662 00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:52,250 Speaker 1: their laws and ideas, you know what I mean, and 663 00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:53,610 Speaker 1: they echo through the years. 664 00:38:55,210 --> 00:38:57,969 Speaker 4: That was a journey. That question, this is the last one, 665 00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:00,090 Speaker 4: Jonathan one, two or three? 666 00:39:01,610 --> 00:39:01,850 Speaker 1: Three? 667 00:39:03,930 --> 00:39:07,250 Speaker 4: Do you think people can really change? Oh? 668 00:39:07,330 --> 00:39:09,810 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I have to believe that. I mean, 669 00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:11,890 Speaker 1: even if I don't believe it, I have to believe that. 670 00:39:11,970 --> 00:39:18,330 Speaker 1: And I think like that's the struggle is to really 671 00:39:18,490 --> 00:39:23,170 Speaker 1: try to believe that. And I do think people are 672 00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:30,170 Speaker 1: capable of change within limits. You know. It's like the paradox. 673 00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:37,090 Speaker 1: I mean, like we are who we are, but I 674 00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:43,770 Speaker 1: think as long as we're alive, we're able to change. 675 00:39:43,810 --> 00:39:46,890 Speaker 1: You know. I'm working on a story that should come 676 00:39:46,890 --> 00:39:49,370 Speaker 1: out this season. It's about a woman who is one 677 00:39:49,410 --> 00:39:56,490 Speaker 1: hundred and two years old who one day her kids, 678 00:39:56,650 --> 00:39:58,850 Speaker 1: who are you know, in their seventies, said, you know, 679 00:39:58,890 --> 00:40:00,890 Speaker 1: you're getting on in age, we should probably clean up 680 00:40:00,890 --> 00:40:03,450 Speaker 1: the storage room. And while they were doing that, they 681 00:40:03,450 --> 00:40:07,170 Speaker 1: found this box containing two hundred and fifty six letters 682 00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:12,570 Speaker 1: that had been sent to her by her fiance at 683 00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:19,330 Speaker 1: the time when she was like twenty, who was in 684 00:40:19,410 --> 00:40:21,970 Speaker 1: the war, this was World War Two, who died in 685 00:40:22,010 --> 00:40:25,290 Speaker 1: the war. And she had not opened up this box 686 00:40:27,250 --> 00:40:31,050 Speaker 1: and looked at these letters in over eighty years, and 687 00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:36,930 Speaker 1: had never really mourned the loss of this man and 688 00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:41,970 Speaker 1: this relationship. She put it aside, and she married a 689 00:40:42,010 --> 00:40:45,489 Speaker 1: man named Irving, stayed married with him for sixty odd years, 690 00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:48,250 Speaker 1: had three kids, and then finds his box and then 691 00:40:48,250 --> 00:40:49,850 Speaker 1: finds herself at the age of one hundred and two, 692 00:40:49,890 --> 00:40:53,530 Speaker 1: falling in love with this with this long dead young 693 00:40:54,290 --> 00:40:58,850 Speaker 1: man from her past, and in that process like she, 694 00:41:00,370 --> 00:41:04,090 Speaker 1: you know, a person who was very used to and 695 00:41:04,130 --> 00:41:06,290 Speaker 1: maybe that's a little generational. Two is like you just 696 00:41:06,730 --> 00:41:08,850 Speaker 1: pack it up and put it in a box and 697 00:41:09,610 --> 00:41:12,410 Speaker 1: move on, but it sticks with you, you know what 698 00:41:12,450 --> 00:41:15,130 Speaker 1: I mean. And like you know, she went through a 699 00:41:15,130 --> 00:41:17,130 Speaker 1: lot of changes even at that age, which is kind 700 00:41:17,130 --> 00:41:22,250 Speaker 1: of like a beautiful thing to see, you know what 701 00:41:22,290 --> 00:41:24,890 Speaker 1: I mean. As long as like we're alive, and as 702 00:41:25,690 --> 00:41:27,690 Speaker 1: you know, as long as we keep going, there's always 703 00:41:27,730 --> 00:41:30,930 Speaker 1: going to be change. You know, maybe not the change 704 00:41:30,930 --> 00:41:32,970 Speaker 1: that other people want to see, but we're there's going 705 00:41:33,010 --> 00:41:33,650 Speaker 1: to be changes. 706 00:41:38,530 --> 00:41:40,650 Speaker 4: We end the show the same way every time, with 707 00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:44,570 Speaker 4: a trip in our memory time machine where you go 708 00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:47,930 Speaker 4: back and revisit one moment from your past. It's not 709 00:41:48,010 --> 00:41:50,370 Speaker 4: a moment you would change anything about. It's just a 710 00:41:50,410 --> 00:41:53,370 Speaker 4: moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. Oh, 711 00:41:53,890 --> 00:41:56,090 Speaker 4: I know, there are many you could pick anything whatever 712 00:41:56,090 --> 00:41:58,330 Speaker 4: comes to the fore. 713 00:41:58,570 --> 00:42:00,569 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the first thing that comes into 714 00:42:00,610 --> 00:42:10,730 Speaker 1: my head is my child's birth. Yeah, I guess. My 715 00:42:10,810 --> 00:42:16,690 Speaker 1: wife says that. I you know, like I was saying, 716 00:42:16,690 --> 00:42:18,890 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not an easy laugh. I don't. I 717 00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:21,610 Speaker 1: wish I smiled more. But she said that like all 718 00:42:21,650 --> 00:42:23,930 Speaker 1: through labor, I had such a big smile on my 719 00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:27,970 Speaker 1: face which kept her going. Just such a wonderful, wonderful 720 00:42:28,050 --> 00:42:37,770 Speaker 1: day and just filled with so much hope and wonderful 721 00:42:37,810 --> 00:42:45,530 Speaker 1: expectation and beginning. And yeah, I think that. And I 722 00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:50,890 Speaker 1: also really love the hospital cafeteria. It was at NYU. 723 00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:51,890 Speaker 1: It was really good. 724 00:42:56,810 --> 00:43:00,370 Speaker 4: Jonathan Goldstein, It's been such a pleasure. You can hear 725 00:43:00,570 --> 00:43:05,130 Speaker 4: Jonathan on the newest season of his amazing show, Have Youweight. 726 00:43:05,810 --> 00:43:09,850 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, thank you. 727 00:43:13,890 --> 00:43:16,170 Speaker 4: Thanks so much for listening. If you liked this episode, 728 00:43:16,410 --> 00:43:19,890 Speaker 4: I think you would also dig my interview with Jonathan's 729 00:43:19,890 --> 00:43:23,250 Speaker 4: former boss and host of This American Life, Ira Glass. 730 00:43:23,810 --> 00:43:27,290 Speaker 4: Ira was super open and honest and way funnier than 731 00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:28,010 Speaker 4: I expected. 732 00:43:28,530 --> 00:43:28,969 Speaker 3: Check it out. 733 00:43:29,410 --> 00:43:31,810 Speaker 4: This episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by 734 00:43:31,890 --> 00:43:35,490 Speaker 4: Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray and Jimmy Keeley. 735 00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:40,170 Speaker 4: Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangwini. Our theme music is 736 00:43:40,210 --> 00:43:42,850 Speaker 4: by rom team Ara Bluie. You can reach out to 737 00:43:42,930 --> 00:43:46,730 Speaker 4: us at Wildcard at NPR dot org. We're going to 738 00:43:46,770 --> 00:43:49,009 Speaker 4: shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. 739 00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:49,810 Speaker 4: Talk to you then. 740 00:43:50,970 --> 00:43:55,010 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Jonathan here again breaking out of the straight 741 00:43:55,090 --> 00:43:58,930 Speaker 1: jacket of being a guest. I just had one further announcement. 742 00:43:59,610 --> 00:44:02,890 Speaker 1: We here at the show have started a free newsletter 743 00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:06,650 Speaker 1: and it's a lot of fun. Khalil a Holt. Wouldn't 744 00:44:06,690 --> 00:44:09,690 Speaker 1: you say, yeah, come on, step it out, step it up. 745 00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:10,570 Speaker 2: It's fun. 746 00:44:11,450 --> 00:44:13,850 Speaker 1: I'm still not convinced in these. 747 00:44:13,690 --> 00:44:17,410 Speaker 2: Dark days you can open up your inbox and have 748 00:44:17,490 --> 00:44:19,370 Speaker 2: a little sunshine. 749 00:44:19,690 --> 00:44:22,930 Speaker 1: That's right, as opposed to all of those phishing scams 750 00:44:22,970 --> 00:44:25,890 Speaker 1: and viruses in there. And we will not. 751 00:44:25,850 --> 00:44:28,450 Speaker 2: Try to take your information. No, well, we will take 752 00:44:28,450 --> 00:44:31,050 Speaker 2: your email address. I guess that's how you get the newsletter. 753 00:44:31,410 --> 00:44:36,050 Speaker 1: Well, yes, yes, indeed, But in return you're gonna get fun, fun, 754 00:44:36,450 --> 00:44:40,970 Speaker 1: fun till your daddy takes your Patreon newsletter away. 755 00:44:41,810 --> 00:44:44,410 Speaker 2: No social Security number required. 756 00:44:44,730 --> 00:44:47,290 Speaker 1: If you get something in your inbox the claiming to 757 00:44:47,330 --> 00:44:50,090 Speaker 1: be from us, where they're telling you to trace your 758 00:44:50,130 --> 00:44:54,330 Speaker 1: safety deposit box key onto some tracing paper and mail 759 00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:56,690 Speaker 1: it into them, you'll know right away that it was 760 00:44:56,770 --> 00:44:57,210 Speaker 1: not us. 761 00:44:57,610 --> 00:44:58,969 Speaker 2: No, we would never do that. 762 00:44:59,090 --> 00:45:02,290 Speaker 1: Would We just wouldn't do that. So sign up for 763 00:45:02,410 --> 00:45:05,890 Speaker 1: our newsletter at patreon dot com. Slash Heavyweight