1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Ruby. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 2: I have hundreds of videos of me doing contrast therapy 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: and many many have gone very, very viral, so I'm 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: sure I'm probably part of the problem. 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 3: And then when I started seeing things online and then 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 3: I saw a local contrast therapy business pop up just 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 3: a few miles from our house, I was like, Okay, 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 3: let me try this out. 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 4: And then you have like the social media or so 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 4: you're like, I just feel really good, you know I 11 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 4: need to do this contrast therapy. It makes me thinks straight. 12 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: Contrast therapy might sound like the latest wellness craze, but 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: you probably experienced a version of it before. Ever stepped 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: from a hot shower into a cold room or grabbed 15 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: an ice pack after a sweaty workout. That's the basic idea, 16 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: alternating between heat and cold. Today's trend takes it a 17 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: bit further, with people cycling between saunas and ice bats 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: in search of everything from faster muscle recovery to better 19 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: mental health. But does the science support the hype. Search 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: on social media and you'll find plenty of people jumping 21 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: from icy plunge baths into bubbling hot tubs or steamy 22 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: saunas and back again, over and over. And over, and 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: then raving about the benefits people like fitness fanatic Andy Glaze, 24 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: a forty eight year old ultra runner and firefighter who 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: believes it's the secret too fast recovery from intense training. 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: The immediate results would be like, you feel better, but 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: then I also noticed that, like I recovered quicker and 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: was sore for shorter periods of time. I've just kept 29 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: doing it because I see results. 30 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: And Aaron Giles, whose wellness content targets women over thirty. 31 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: Five, you know, it's very invigorating to get into the 32 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: cold water and then go back into the heat. So 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: I definitely felt like, you know, more focused, more awake overall, 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: like full body invigoration because it really wakes you up. 35 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: But does contrast therapy really help your body recover or 36 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: your mind find it's hidden zen? Does it actually improve 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: blood flow or reduce inflammation? Is the intense shock to 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: your skin and psyche actually the long lost secret to 39 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: better mental resilience? To answer those questions, doctor Chelsea Evans, 40 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: a sports medicine physician at Lehigh Valley Health Network, joins 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: the conversation. 42 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 4: I think in general, people are looking to be healthy 43 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 4: and feel better, and I think people are realizing that 44 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 4: shoving your body with more supplements en vitamins and paying 45 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 4: for expensive therapies aren't necessarily yielding that Welcome. 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: Back to health versus hype with the American Medical Association, 47 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm your host Trace Domingez. Today we're talking about contrast therapy. 48 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: What exactly is that? Are there health benefits to changing 49 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: temperatures quickly? And what does contrast therapy actually do to 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: your body? Join me as we find out whether contrast 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: therapy is all health or just hype. Contrast therapy is 52 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: a good example of an ancient practice experiencing a modern resurgence. 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: It's been around for thousands of years. In ancient Rome, 54 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: public bath houses were designed with a progression of rooms, 55 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: including caldarium hot baths and frigidarium cold plunge pools. Nordic 56 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: cultures paired intense sauna sessions with icy lake plunges or 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: rolling around in the snow, and for centuries in Japan, 58 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: alternating between hot, mineral rich onsend baths and cooler water 59 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: has been a common cultural bathing practice. Our more modern 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: version of this seems to have been recently rediscovered by 61 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: the online sports and wellness communities. I'm curious why this 62 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: practice has endured for so long and what the appeal 63 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: of it really is. Here's Andy explaining. So there's a 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: couple of things. 65 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: Like, first of all, like I said, I'm forty eight, 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: I'm considered a master athlete, right, which means I'm old. 67 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: I'm on a three hundred and seventeen streak of running 68 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: over one hundred miles a week that averages like fifteen 69 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: to twenty miles a day, so I'm constantly having to 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: recover like rapidly. I have like a pretty intense recovery 71 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: routine that involves contrast therapy is like definitely one of 72 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: the main components, but you know, it's one component and 73 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: a series of lots of things that I do so 74 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: my body recovers like faster. 75 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Can you describe what it's like to do this kind 76 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: of contrast therapy, you know, the sauna, the cold plunge 77 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: in detail, what does it feel like? 78 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: So sauna is is not like a passive sort of exercise. 79 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: It's work, and when you're in there, it is so 80 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: hot and uncomfortable that your heart rate elevates and you 81 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: you want to get out because you're just so hot. 82 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: And then you get into the cold plunge, and it's 83 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: really uncomfortable in the cold plunge too, like. 84 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: You immediately want to get out. 85 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: You're fighting to stay in there, and then you get out, 86 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: and then you go back in the hot And when 87 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: you first get in the hot it was cold in 88 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: there because it's just your body is so cold, and 89 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: then it heats up really fast again. I mean, your 90 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 2: body's going into shock and it wants to get out 91 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: of that cold water. 92 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: Aaron had a similar description of her contrast therapy experience. 93 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: When we got to the Contrast therapy place, of course, 94 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 3: first we had to change our clothes. I wore my 95 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: bathing suit. My husband was in his trunks, and you're 96 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: basically alternating between fifteen to twenty minutes in the sauna, 97 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 3: and I think it's like two to five minutes in 98 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: the cold plunge tank. But you know, after two to 99 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: five minutes in that cold plunge tank, you are definitely 100 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 3: very ready to get back into the sauna. And you 101 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 3: know that lasts for an hour, so it's a few 102 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: times in both. 103 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: Aaron, it sounds like you liked the sauna part just 104 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: a little bit more. 105 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean absolutely. Every time it was time to 106 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: get out of the cold plunge, I was ready to 107 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 3: move into the sauna. So I would definitely say the 108 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: sauna was preferred and welcomed and loved and appreciated and 109 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 3: probably adored. My teenager would say, it's a vibe. You know, 110 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 3: there's the sauna has aura. Okay, so it's you know, 111 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: it's the red light. 112 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: It's just it's quiet. 113 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: But then when you got to open the door and 114 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: get in the cold plunge tank, it's like a complete 115 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: shock to your system. 116 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: For me, just like the overall. 117 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 3: You know, dopamine rush that probably came with the cold 118 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 3: to heat was fun, I guess I could say. 119 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: And it's that shock to your system and rush that 120 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: people are chasing. 121 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: The cold plunge is like a dopamine enhancing like activity. 122 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: So if you have a headache, if you feel sad, 123 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: you know you got PTSD symptoms, and you get in 124 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: that cold plunge, a lot of times you're gonna feel 125 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: pretty good for like an hour or two afterwards. 126 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: I shared that last bit with our medical expert for 127 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: this episode, doctor Chelsea Evans. I wanted to know what 128 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: the science was behind the reaction and he just described. 129 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,799 Speaker 1: Here's doctor Evans. 130 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 4: So when you talk about cold exposure again, let's talk 131 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 4: about like chemics. You're looking at nora an epinephyrin where 132 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 4: you have a surge at that and that causes that 133 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 4: harry to increase. You have alertness and you have that energy. 134 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 4: You have endorphins, and you're looking at some pain relief, 135 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 4: and then you have some of that mood enhancing effect 136 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 4: of the endorphin. The interesting part about the endorphin piece 137 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 4: of it. Endorphins especially be endorphins. They're an opioid receptor agonist. 138 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 4: And then like Andy said, there is an increase in dopamine, 139 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 4: and then you know with dopamine you have more motivation, 140 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 4: real board and focus. The thing about this is these 141 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 4: are all temporary changes. There nothing that you're going to 142 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 4: see in terms of long term So he's not wrong. 143 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, what you're saying, let me get this right, 144 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: is b endorphins beta endorphins. They're an opioid receptor agonist. 145 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: You're saying that our bodies own natural chemicals. When triggered 146 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: by something like a cold plunge, they're activating the same 147 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: receptors involved in the body's opioid system and they help 148 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: reduce pain and promote feelings of well being. All that 149 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: sounds amazing exactly, So doctor Evans, I do want to 150 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: play something else from Andy. 151 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: As a firefighter, I have PTSD and so I've found 152 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: that cold plunging is very beneficial for like PTSD symptoms. Again, 153 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: I'm not a scientist, but I am a paramedic, And 154 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: the way I understand it and the way it makes 155 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: me feel is when I get into the sauna, my 156 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: pipes get really big, meaning my veins, my arteries get 157 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: really big. And then when I get into the cold plunge, 158 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: my pipes get really small. And then when I go 159 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: back they get big again. And so that gives you 160 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: a certain feeling in your body which is quite nice. 161 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: Some would say like euphoric. 162 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, dopamine rush, but also like it 163 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: just makes you feel good. 164 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: Why do we feel euphoric after something like a cold plunge. 165 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 4: Because it releases those endorphins, and those endorphins make our 166 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 4: moods a lot better. So yeah, it's the release of 167 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 4: dopamine in the beta endorphin are the two chemicals that 168 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 4: we're really looking at that really can affect our moods. 169 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: Andy also described his pipes getting smaller and bigger by 170 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: alternating hot and cold. Doctor Evans, what's he talking about here? 171 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: What happens to our bodies when we're doing contrast therapy. 172 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 4: So when your body gets in a cold environment, you 173 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 4: have something called vasoconstriction, which is when your blood vessels 174 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 4: shrink and they tighten down, and as a result of that, 175 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 4: you essentially reduce inflammation and swelling. There's also some literature 176 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 4: to say that it blunts what the nerve's signaling is 177 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 4: and so as a result of that, you have less 178 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 4: pain in that area. 179 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: And then what about sitting in a sauna a similar idea. 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 4: So when you're in a hot environment or a sauna 181 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 4: or a hot tub or something like that, what happens 182 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 4: is you have a bunch of vasodilation that increases blood 183 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 4: flow and oxygen to delivery of tissue. 184 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: So you have. 185 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: Tissue that's damaged or needs repairing, that's when you want 186 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 4: a lot of blood float in there, because that's when 187 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 4: you have those healing cells come and they help to 188 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 4: repair the tissue. So that's a thought behind using the 189 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 4: heat therapy. 190 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: Got it, So the cold plunge tends to make your 191 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: blood vessels contract and might reduce inflammation and some other things. 192 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: And then in a hot environment like a hot tubber asana, 193 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: the blood vessels open up and deliver more of your 194 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: natural healing capabilities to that tissue. Correct what happens then 195 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: when we're alternating between those two environments. 196 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 4: So you know, there's a term that's been coined. It's 197 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 4: a pumping effect. And so when you have this effect 198 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 4: of contraction and then vasodilation, you're able to get the 199 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 4: benefits of both healing and pain reduction. Whether or not 200 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 4: the literature supports this, this is in theory, what people 201 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 4: are going for when they seek this type of therapy. 202 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: Okay, so in theory, we're going to get to the 203 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: evidence of it in a minute. But first I'm wondering, 204 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: are there some people who should altogether avoid trying contrast therapy? 205 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: Like what are the risks? 206 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 4: So when we talk about some of the risks, you 207 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 4: have to be careful about people that have cardiac arrhythmias 208 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: because it can lower their threshold for having a cardiac arrhythmia. 209 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 4: People that have uncontrolled high blood pressure. The last thing 210 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 4: that you want is to do anything to increase their 211 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 4: blood pressure and they'll stroke out. We don't want to 212 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 4: be responsible for that heart disease. In general, if you 213 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 4: think about what cold therapy does, it causes vasoconstriction. So 214 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 4: do you really want vasoconstriction around your coronary arteries? Probably not. 215 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 4: Do we really want to cause STEMIs? Probably not? And 216 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 4: that goes along with people with vascular disease. Right, So 217 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 4: if you have a bunch of blood vessels that are 218 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 4: littered with calcium deposits or lipids, and you know, a 219 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 4: cholesterol around their blood vessels, less than you want as 220 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 4: any type of vasoconstriction as well. So I think you 221 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 4: need to approach this with a degree of caution in 222 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 4: certain populations, but particularly those for cardiovascular events. 223 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, forgive me. What is a STEMI heart attack? Oh? 224 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: We don't want that. 225 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't want to cause those. 226 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: Definitely not. Yeah, all right, y'all. STEMY stands for st 227 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: elevation myocardial infarction. It's the most severe kind of art 228 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: attack where a coronary artery gets completely blocked. The reason 229 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: cold plunging could theoretically cause one comes down to what's 230 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: called the cold shock response. Your heart rate spikes, your 231 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: blood vessels clamp down and stress hormones flood your system 232 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: the second you hit that cold water. If you already 233 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: have some hidden plaque build up in your arteries, the 234 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: sudden shock could be a thing that cracks it open, 235 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: triggering a full clot. Actual heart attacks from sauna or 236 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: cold plunge use are genuinely rare. The bigger real world 237 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: risk factor isn't the cold, it's mixing all this with alcohol. Okay, 238 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: now that we've all dug into our curiosity here, let's 239 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: go back to the interview. So doctor Evans Aaron had 240 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: a question for you. Here's what she wanted to know. 241 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: If I could ask a doctor about contrast therapy, I 242 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 3: would say, if it's something someone did consistently for maybe 243 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 3: I don't know, sixty ninety days, maybe they did it 244 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 3: two to four times a week, and maybe they had 245 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: a serious health concern, or maybe they had an injury 246 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 3: and they're in their forties, because I know those things 247 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: happen a lot. Would that speed things up? Or would 248 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,599 Speaker 3: the benefits be obvious after being that consistent? 249 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: So what do you think about this question? Would the 250 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: benefits be obvious for someone who consistently does contrast therapy. 251 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 4: Truthfully, if somebody is dealing with muscle soreness and they're 252 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 4: working on exercise recovery where they have certain chronic aches 253 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: and pains, they may notice some improvement over that sixty 254 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 4: to ninety day period. Thing is like contrast, therapy alone 255 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 4: is not going to have dramatic effects on accelerating healing, 256 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 4: and it's not going to reverse any health conditions per 257 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 4: se that you have. I think it's more of one 258 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 4: of those things you need to use as a supportive 259 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 4: recovery tool rather than that therapy alone. So yeah, it'll 260 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 4: help a little bit. Is it going to be mind blowing? 261 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 4: Probably not. 262 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: And then we'll play another clip from Aaron. 263 00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: Those extreme cold temperatures for women, especially women, you know perimenopause. 264 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: Menopause is not. 265 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: Good for our bodies. 266 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: I guess the easiest way for a non doctor person 267 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 3: like myself to say it would be as like high cortisol, 268 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 3: which were already kind of in a high stress hormone 269 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 3: time in our lives. I was open to trying it though, 270 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 3: because I did see that he had one tank that 271 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: was the temperature for men, and then he had one 272 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 3: tank that was more ideal for women. 273 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: Is that accurate. Is that something that we should consider 274 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: are extreme cold tempts not as good for people who 275 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: are perimenopausal or menopausal? And is there something where there's 276 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: like this temperature is better for the sex men or women. 277 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 4: There is no evidence to say that extreme cold temperatures 278 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 4: are worse for perimenopausal menopausal women. There is an interesting 279 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 4: study about women who were perimenopausal and menopausal that swim 280 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 4: in fifty degree temperatures on a regular basis, and it 281 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: actually showed that they had less perimenopausal and menopausal symptoms 282 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 4: doing the colder therapy. It's not a great study, right, 283 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 4: they're women who exercise on a regular basis, But there's 284 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 4: no evidence to say being perimenopausal and menopausal should have 285 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 4: any effect on if you can do contrast therapies. 286 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: Aaron's comment got me thinking about how cold is a 287 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: cold plunge? Here's Andy, So I keep mind in like 288 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: the low forties. 289 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: When I first started, it was like a like a 290 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: like I think, like a macho thing or like an 291 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: ego thing, and like I would keep it at like 292 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: thirty three and we would do like how long can 293 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: you stay in? You know, we do like eleven minutes 294 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: and you know, go out and like break the ice, 295 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: you know, and then get in. 296 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: And as time. 297 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: Goes by, I've realized that that doesn't necessarily matter quite 298 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: as much. And so yeah, like low forties, mid forty five, 299 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: forty three, something like that. 300 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: Oh that sounds pretty cold, but it actually brings me 301 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: to another question about the protocol for contrast therapy. How hot, 302 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: how cold, how long those sorts of things for someone 303 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: looking to relieve muscle soreness and to speed their recovery. 304 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: What does the science say. 305 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 4: So, this is one of those things that when you 306 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 4: look at the literature, this is what makes it really difficult. 307 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 4: It's because it's so inconsistent with the protocols that people use. 308 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 4: But I will tell you the majority of them, and 309 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 4: really what my patients tell me. They usually say, you know, 310 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 4: if they're going to be in hot water like a 311 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 4: hot tub, you're looking at three to five minutes, and 312 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 4: then you're doing one to three minutes in the cold. 313 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 4: If you're in a saunet, takes a little bit longer 314 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 4: to get that internal temperature up, and then you're looking 315 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 4: at fifteen to twenty minutes. Obviously I wouldn't start there. 316 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 4: I would work your way up. And when you're looking 317 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 4: at cold, you're looking at ten to fifteen degrees celsius 318 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 4: or fifty to fifty nine degrees fahrenheit. When you're looking 319 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 4: at hot water, so like the hot tub, you're looking 320 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 4: at one hundred to one hundred and four. Sauna's start 321 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 4: at one hundred and twenty. I've seen temperatures all the 322 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 4: way up to one hundred and sixty hundred and seventy. 323 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 4: That seems a little extreme. What you're really looking for 324 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 4: is a solid sweat. So if you're solid sweating, you 325 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 4: got it hot enough in there. But yeah, you just 326 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 4: want to be mindful work your body up to that 327 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 4: because your body has to adjust and adapt to these 328 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 4: temperature changes. 329 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And is that sweating important? Like is that part 330 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: of the help is having all of your pores excreting 331 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: everything they can. 332 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 4: No, that's just that tells you that your body temperature 333 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 4: is rising, which is what part of the heat therapy 334 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 4: is a lot of athletes will do this and they'll 335 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 4: cycle it two or three times, so they'll do the 336 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 4: you know, three to five minutes in the hot tub, 337 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 4: one to three minutes in the cold, or use the 338 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 4: sauna for a little bit longer, and then they'll cycle 339 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 4: through it two or three times. So I think it's 340 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 4: just a commitment of time. Right, If you have to 341 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 4: do that two or three times, you're looking at an 342 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 4: hour commitment. So depending on what modality you use as 343 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 4: your heating source. 344 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: That makes sense the timing, does it? It kind of matter? 345 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,479 Speaker 1: Should people avoid the ice bath immediately after, you know, 346 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: coming out of their workout jumping in the ice bath, 347 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: or should they wait a little bit, or should they 348 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: do heat first? Does it sort of matter? 349 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 4: So this is interesting. For a really long time, it 350 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 4: was always you want to do cold immersion early on. 351 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 4: The thought behind that is if you had the basoconstriction, 352 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 4: you reduce the craten and kindness build up, which is 353 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 4: what you typically have that can make your muscles not 354 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 4: function as well as you want. However, there's a growing 355 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 4: literature suggesting that by doing the cold therapy rate after exercise, 356 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 4: you're also decreasing your body's ability to form new muscle. 357 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 4: So while it may allow you to work out sooner 358 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 4: because your K levels are better, it might not in 359 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 4: turn allow you to build up as quickly as you 360 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 4: want it. Because you know, we don't fully understand all 361 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 4: the hormones in the body and all the chemicals in 362 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 4: the body that we create, and sometimes they carry benefits 363 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 4: that we're not aware of yet, and there's something going 364 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 4: on there that's preventing the muscle from building up as 365 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 4: fast with doing direct ice therapy afterwards. I think at 366 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 4: the end of the day, it really depends what you're 367 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 4: looking for. If you have back to back soccer games, 368 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 4: you're not going to care if your muscles built or not. 369 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 4: You want that quick recovery so that you can perform 370 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 4: the next day. So I think for that indication, it 371 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 4: makes more sense to do the cold immersion therapy. But 372 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 4: if you're looking for long term gains, maybe that's not 373 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 4: the best option for you. Evidence is controversial. I think 374 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 4: the more we know, the more we're changing our protocols 375 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 4: for what we should be doing. 376 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: So what are the biggest mistakes you would say people 377 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: would attribute to something like a cold plunge and a 378 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: saun or routine when they're doing it. 379 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 4: So when we talk about people trying new health trends, 380 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 4: there's those quick adaptors, the ones that try everything under 381 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 4: the sun and they go from zero to one hundred. 382 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 4: I think that's a really bad idea. If your body's 383 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 4: not ready for those temperature changes, you can cause a 384 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 4: lot of systemic effects. So biggest mistakes that we see. 385 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 4: You're staying in the cold too long, you're staying in 386 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 4: the hot too long, you don't know your tolerances, you 387 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 4: drink alcohol before afterwards. You don't want to jump from 388 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 4: one extream to the next until your body gradually adjusts 389 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 4: when you first start. This isn't to say that you 390 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 4: can't eventually work your way up to that, but that's 391 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 4: not where I would start. 392 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: So I shouldn't go from the sauna and just go 393 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: like jump right into a cold plunge like cannon ball 394 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: style day one. 395 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 4: I wouldn't recommend that. 396 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: Because when we were talking about this episode, I grew 397 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: up in Michigan and we would definitely go from the 398 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: sauna to the snow as teenagers. 399 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, yep. 400 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: It was not probably smart, no, but it was hilarious. Yep. 401 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 4: I was just in Norway and they did the same 402 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 4: thing there too. They have all these saunas and then 403 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 4: you jump in the forty seven degree ocean. I'm like, 404 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 4: this is awful, but that's a thing. 405 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we did it all the time. My 406 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: Mom was like, it's good for your pores, and I'm like, okay, Mom, not. 407 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 4: Sure if it's the pores, but sure whatever closes them 408 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 4: right when you jump in the cold. 409 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, okay, doctor Evans. Let's get into some of 410 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: the more specific claims about contrast therapy. Let's start with 411 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: any evidence of long term benefits. What do we know? 412 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: What do the studies actually show us? 413 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 4: So studies when you look at big ARS meta analysis, 414 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 4: the evidence is really weak in terms of true benefit 415 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 4: of long term benefit of it. And that's because there's 416 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 4: inconsistencies with the studies in terms of the protocols that 417 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 4: are used. So to say that it works or doesn't work, 418 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 4: I think it's difficult to say. Literature doesn't really have 419 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: enough evidence to say, hey, this should be standard of 420 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 4: care for if you have this type of injury. So 421 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 4: I think for pain relief, there's evidence that cold exposure 422 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 4: that piece of it can really help temporarily to cause 423 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 4: long term benefit. Probably not for stiffness and mobility. Is 424 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 4: it the heat piece of it or the thermal therapy 425 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 4: to make it a medical term that can help in 426 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 4: terms of the mobility and the muscle relaxation. But to 427 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 4: say that it's actually speeding up recovery. There's no literature 428 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 4: rate now saying that it is actually effective in doing that. 429 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: That's interesting and that seems to be something that maybe 430 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: in the future we can do more studies and they 431 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: can be a little more consistent and perhaps we'll find something, 432 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: But as of now, we don't have a lot to 433 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: support it. 434 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 4: That's where we're at right now. There's just not enough 435 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 4: studies out there. I think the best studies that have 436 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 4: been done have been published in the twenty twenty four 437 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 4: and twenty twenty five range and their meta analysis. But 438 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 4: that's the literature that we have right now. There's some 439 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 4: older studies, but they're really limited in consistent protocols, so 440 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 4: you can't really I don't really think they're good enough 441 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 4: to use as standard of care or to base recommendations 442 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 4: off of those. 443 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you say between or I guess overall, 444 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: what's the most impactful part of contrast therapy? Where do 445 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: you get the most benefit? 446 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 4: I think it's what you're looking for. So I think 447 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 4: if you're looking for pain reduction, I think you're going 448 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 4: to find it with the cold therapy. And I think 449 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 4: if you're looking for tissue repair and theory, the heat 450 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 4: therapy really should be doing the most. So I think 451 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 4: it's really what your goal is at the end of 452 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 4: the therapy piece. And it also depends on the population 453 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 4: that you're coming from. If you're somebody with chronic aches 454 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,719 Speaker 4: and pains, who are you know in your forties, fifties 455 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 4: and sixties, I think your goals are going to be 456 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 4: different than in athlete per se, who is looking to 457 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 4: get a competitive edge off of the next athlete that's 458 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 4: sitting next to them, that's looking to take their position. 459 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 4: So I think they're two different goals. Cold therapy once again, 460 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 4: it's better for pain reduction, for healing properties, and to 461 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 4: get those muscles moving a little bit. You want the 462 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 4: heat to work. So it just depends where you're at 463 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 4: in terms of what you need. 464 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what does the research say about you know, 465 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: muscle soreness and other recovery strategies that you can use 466 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: in general. 467 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 4: So it was interesting there's an article published about doms 468 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 4: or delayed on set muscle soreness and that contrast therapy 469 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 4: may help restore functional performance faster than passive therapy, which 470 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 4: is what most people do. It's you know, like light 471 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 4: activity after if they do the contrast therapy following a 472 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 4: period of excessive physical exertion, there is some evidence to 473 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 4: say that the contrast therapy following this does provide quicker 474 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 4: return to activity, which could be that competitive edge if 475 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 4: you're really thinking about it, If they have an next 476 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 4: day where they can exercise because their muscles aren't sore, 477 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 4: you know what, maybe that extra day is going to 478 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 4: be what can get them ahead of their competition. 479 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, give them a just a little bit of edge. 480 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 481 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: Can contrast therapy improve just overall circulation? Is it just 482 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: in the extremities? What about cardiovascular health? Like, does it 483 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: work all the way through the body or is it 484 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: just in parts of it. 485 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 4: Let's talk about the short term benefit of contrast therapy. 486 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 4: So when you go and you get dumped in that 487 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 4: cold water, Yes, you're going to have an increase in 488 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 4: your heart rate, increase in blood pressure, increase in your 489 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 4: breathing rate. You're going to have an increase in that 490 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 4: nora epinephrin and those cortisol levels, which temporarily help, but 491 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 4: long term, there's no studies to say that the benefits 492 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 4: of those changes are long standing. So we don't want 493 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,239 Speaker 4: our bodies to sustain some of these effects of the 494 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 4: cold therapy. We want the results of it, but we 495 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 4: also want the benefits of that nora epinephrin rush and 496 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 4: that cortisol rush from doing that. It's just right now 497 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 4: when they check blood levels over a period of time 498 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 4: after having frequent exposure to this type of therapy, there's 499 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 4: nothing saying that it's lasting in the system long enough 500 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 4: to have true long standing cardiovascular benefits. 501 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the main benefit from my perspective is that 502 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: little scream that everybody does when they get in. 503 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 4: I think that's the best part, that rush, you know, yes, 504 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 4: I completely agree. 505 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: So then when it comes with those kind of things, 506 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: is something like cardiovascular health impacted by these hot and 507 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 1: cold and you know alternating. 508 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 4: So, once again, it is temporarily. It's just not long term. 509 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 4: There's no evidence to say that you have sustained effects 510 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,239 Speaker 4: of it. There's risk of doing this if you have 511 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 4: cardiovascular disease as well because of the short term changes 512 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 4: that it can change in your cardiovascular system. So once again, 513 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 4: I think there needs to be more research done in 514 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 4: this topic. 515 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: A lot of people claim the cold plunge is helping 516 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: them with their mental health, as well, and they're like 517 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: stress resilient. Is there any evidence there at all or 518 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: is this something we see on social media? 519 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 4: Okay, so this is an interesting one. There's a couple 520 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 4: studies out there that show that there's temporary mood improvement, 521 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 4: there's temporary improvement in sleep quality, and there's also reduced 522 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 4: sickness related work absences. The problem with these studies they're 523 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 4: done in populations that do regular cold therapy as part 524 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 4: of an exercise routine, So it's difficult to distinguish if 525 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 4: these benefits are from the exercise alone or if they're 526 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 4: from repetitive contrast therapy that they have because the populations 527 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 4: that they use are generally healthier populations to exercise on 528 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 4: a regular basis. So there's no published literature that shows 529 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 4: any long term benefit of contrast therapy having any effect 530 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 4: on depression, anxiety, or chronic stress. So I think while 531 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 4: it may give you temporary euphoria, in terms of long 532 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 4: term benefit, I don't think we're there yet to say 533 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 4: that contrast therapy adequately can change those symptoms. 534 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're using the term like short lived and temporary. 535 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Does that mean hours? Does that 536 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: mean days? Does it mean weeks, like it means hours hours. 537 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, it means within a couple hours of the time 538 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 4: that you do the contrast therapy. Yeah, and obviously some 539 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 4: hormones hang around a little bit longer, right, so increases 540 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 4: in cortisol. Cortisol can be in your bloodstream for one 541 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 4: to two weeks before it starts to change when you're 542 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 4: exposed to a certain environment. However, is it significant. The 543 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 4: study really didn't show that there was a significant change 544 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 4: in cortisol levels. So to say that it's in your 545 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 4: bloodstream for an extended period of time with a significant 546 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 4: change in your cortisol level probably not an accurate statement 547 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 4: at this point. 548 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that puts it in a 549 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: lot of perspective. You know, I'm not going to jump 550 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: in a cold plunge in a sauna multiple times a 551 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: day every day in order to be able to try 552 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: and maintain some kind of level. But that's sort of 553 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: what we're talking about we would have to do in 554 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: order to maintain those kind of hormone levels. 555 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 4: Yep, correct. 556 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So, doctor Evans, if there's not a huge long 557 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: term benefit in some ways, what about things that people 558 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: talk about online a lot immunity, for example, is there 559 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: any benefit there long term? 560 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 4: So there's no long term benefit. There's a couple studies 561 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 4: out there publishing showing short term benefit of the cold 562 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 4: specific therapy, which is the one you know, is the 563 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 4: part of the contrast therapy, but any long term benefit 564 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 4: of immunity is There's still lots to be desired in 565 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 4: terms of research. 566 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, Before I let you go, our wellness 567 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: influencer Aaron wondered about one more thing, and she's got 568 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: me wondering about it too, So here she is. 569 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 3: I always wonder, Like you know, doctors don't always, you know, 570 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 3: they sure they know the science behind things, but have 571 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 3: they tried it? 572 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 573 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: Have they experienced it? 574 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: So, doctor Evans, have you tried contrast therapy or any 575 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: of the separate components? 576 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 4: Yes? I did. I decided it would be a good 577 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 4: idea to run the Princess Half Marathon, and I probably 578 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 4: didn't train long enough, and so yes, I did cold 579 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 4: therapy after words. I was a little less sort than 580 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 4: I anticipated, so I didn't do the heat following it, 581 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 4: but I did do the ice therapy and the cold 582 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 4: therapy afterwards. So have I tried it again since no, 583 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 4: am I running another Disney Princess race? No, so maybe 584 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 4: if I do something crazy again like that, then we'll 585 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 4: talk about it. 586 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to hold you do that. Thanks 587 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: a lot for being here and talking to our audience 588 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: about contrast therapy. 589 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. 590 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: So let's turn this into a math problem. Cold therapy 591 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: can in the short term, reduce inflammation, accelerate muscle recovery, 592 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: stimulate the nervous system, and trigger the release of mood 593 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: boosting neurotransmitters like dopamine and beta endorphins. Heat therapy can, 594 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: in the short term, relieve chronic pain, relax muscles, and 595 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: increase circulation. The sum of these two parts. Contrast therapy, 596 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: in theory accelerates circulation, reduces inflammation, and triggers faster tissue 597 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: recovery by forcing blood vessels to rapidly dilate and constrict. 598 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: But more studies need to be done to confirm this 599 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: and investigate if any long term benefits exist. So do 600 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: you think contrast therapy adds up? Let us know what 601 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: you think about it in the comments. As always, be 602 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: sure to check with your physician first if you plan 603 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: to take the plunge and try contrast therapy for yourself. 604 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: Thanks again to doctor Chelsea Evans for breaking down the 605 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: science behind contrast therapy, and thanks to Andy Glaze and 606 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: Aaron Giles for sharing their stories and experiences with us. 607 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: We did it again. Believe it or not. This was 608 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: our seventh popular health trend, which means we only have 609 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: one more episode left this season. Don't worry, though, we 610 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: still have plenty of interesting information to cover, because next 611 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: week we're going to dive into the world of red 612 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: light therapy and all the social media claims around it. 613 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: If you haven't already, please hit the subscriber follow button 614 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: and join us next time on Health versus Hype with 615 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: the American Medical Association. For more information on all the 616 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: topics we're covering, visit AMA Health versus Hype dot org. 617 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: That's AMA Healthvshype dot Org. Health Versus Hype is a 618 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: production of Ruby's Studio from iHeartMedia and the American Medical Association. 619 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: I'm traced Tom Guez. Our producers are Matt Stillo and 620 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: Pamela Lawrence. Michael Depoe Wilson is our writer. The show 621 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: is engineered and features original music by Matthew Ernest filler 622 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: heals versus hype is intended for educational and informational purposes 623 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: only and does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 624 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician with any questions 625 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: you may have regarding a medical condition.