1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you were in control of your 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: life or do you feel like shopping is running? 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget and this is 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 2: there are No Girls on the Internet. So I love TikTok, 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: but lately it kind of feels like the vibes are off. 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: What I've always liked about TikTok was that it feels 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: like watching kind of user generated Netflix, regular people telling 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: interesting stories. We're doing interesting things and ways that feel 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: genuinely captivating, as opposed to Instagram, where eventually, for me 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: it kind of came to feel like, you know, good 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: looking people, pretty polished people selling me something like those 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: are the people that I felt like were taking up 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: the most space on Instagram. Comparatively, on TikTok, it didn't 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: feel like I had to wade through a ton of 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: intrusive ads to use the platform. When you did encounter 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: an ad, it just said sponsored at the bottom, you 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: swiped up and that was that. But lately I feel 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: that that has changed. Now you scroll alongside regular ads, 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 2: but near those you also get these tiktoks that look 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: kind of like normal tiktoks, but they say eligible her 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: commission on the bottom. They're not exactly ads ads, But 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: the person in them, who was talking to you like 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: a friend, does just happen to be telling you about 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: a product that they maybe get a cut on if 26 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: you pull the trigger on buying TikToker. Grace Brissell recently 27 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 2: called out how dystopian this all feels, saying TikTok feels 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: like Chian and Ali Express had a baby. There's links everywhere, 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: there's one hundred ads. Why is there a seventeen year 30 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: old girl trying to sell me thirty five cent ring lights? Now, 31 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: none of this is entirely new. There was always stuff 32 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: to be bought and sold after folks hyped it up 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: on TikTok. You know, there was that expression TikTok made 34 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: me buy it. But now to me, it feels different. 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: So what's going on? Welcome to TikTok Shop, TikTok's affiliate 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: creator program that was officially rolled out in September after 37 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: months of testing. TikTok describes it in their September twelfth, 38 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three press release when it launched, quote, TikTok 39 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: Shop empowers brands and creators to connect with highly engaged 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: customers based on their interest, and it combines the power 41 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: of community, creativity, and commerce to deliver a seamless shopping experience. 42 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: So here's how it works. Creators with five thousand followers 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: or more can get a cut of stuff that they 44 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: sell on the platform. TikTok takes a five percent cut 45 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: as well. We've talked about fast fashion like she and 46 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: on the podcast before, but when you add in that 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: same powerful TikTok algorithm and the way that it can 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: quickly boost videos to millions of people on consumerism, while 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: that feels like fast fashion meeting fast selling. So what 50 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: does this all mean? How do we get here? Is 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: it here to stay? And how is it shaping the 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: platform ta get into all of this? We're joined by 53 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: the most successful TikTokers that I know, Tamika, also known 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: as pretty Critical on TikTok, who uses their platform to 55 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: have frank and funny discussions about wellness, beauty, consumerism, all 56 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: with a critical eye. Tamika, thank you so much for 57 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: being here. I cannot think of a person that I 58 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: would rather be getting into all of this with. Ven you. 59 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for being here. 60 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me. 61 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: So your platform is at once like a celebration of 62 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: one of my favorite hobbies, which is buying things, but 63 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: also doing so in this like critical lens with a 64 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: critical eye. How did you come to be making content 65 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: like this? 66 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a really natural reflection of my 67 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: favorite hobbies, which are yes, buying things, but also personal finance. 68 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: I've just been really into personal finance since I was 69 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: very young. It was something my mother really instilled in me, 70 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: and of course there's always been that tension between I 71 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: love to shop and I have all these future financial goals. 72 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: And before I ever started making TikTok content, I was 73 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: watching it so consuming this content. I really started to 74 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: see there's people making great content around beauty, around fashion, 75 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: around wellness, and at the same time there's also people, 76 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: sometimes the same people, that very clearly have some kind 77 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: of over consumption problem, and that social media itself just 78 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: kind of opens the door for over consumption and normalizes it. 79 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: You know, you think of like halls and all of 80 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: these different ways of showing like how much you bought, 81 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: not necessarily what you bought, was was it smart? Asking 82 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: those kinds of questions. It was just like here volume. 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: You know, I am a creative and most of my 84 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 2: career has spent freelancing or being self employed, and so 85 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: I didn't do any kind of saving. I wasn't saving 86 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: for retirement or putting together a furrow one k or 87 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: any of that, nor did I really know anybody who did. 88 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: And it was your content that really got me thinking 89 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: more serious about it. I am embarrassed to admit that 90 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: it wasn't until I started seeing your tiktoks that I 91 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: started thinking more about, oh, my own personal finance journey, 92 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: Like you made a lot of content about for O 93 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: one case, and like, what are we doing for a retirement? 94 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: We're not all like it's maybe it seems funny or 95 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: cute to pretend like none of us are saving, but 96 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: honey saved. Like don't you want to go shopping when 97 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: you're when you're a little older, Like save your money. 98 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: So you definitely are someone who makes these conversations sort 99 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 2: of accessible but also critical because like, I don't know, 100 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 2: I do think that TikTok is the kind of place 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: where over consumption is perhaps not as questioned as it 102 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: should be, Like the halls where you have bought so 103 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: many things that you couldnot possibly use all of those, 104 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: you know, water tumblers in one lifetime, Like that's not 105 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: really questioned the way that maybe it should be on 106 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: platforms like TikTok. 107 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think part of the issue is that it's entertainment, right. 108 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: No one wants to be the skuld that comes in 109 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: and is like why did you buy so many Stanley cups? 110 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: And because it's entertainment, it also kind of normalizes your 111 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: own shopping. You're like, well, she's doing it, I'm doing it. 112 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: The people on these platforms seem like regular, everyday people 113 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: just like you. It kind of obscures the fact that 114 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: they have a reason to be buying these items, right, 115 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: they are selling these items back to you, They're getting 116 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: commission off these items. So it's definitely a platform that 117 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: makes your shopping feel very normal, even when it's very 118 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: out of control. 119 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: What has it been like? Kind of walking this balance 120 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: of somebody who you know likes to shop for quality 121 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: goods and make content about shopping and consumerism, but in 122 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: a way that has that critical eye like what has 123 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: that been like for you? 124 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: It's definitely a tough type rope to walk because I 125 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: think that there's a certain point where you're like, am 126 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: I really being honest with myself? So I like to shop. 127 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that shopping is part of 128 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: my identity because that sounds so sad, but it's something 129 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: I really like to do, I really enjoy doing, and 130 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: I would say that beauty and fashion are parts of 131 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: my identity. That being said, I have all of these 132 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: financial goals that I'd like to reach, and by participating 133 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: in my hobbies, I'm immediately taking away from my ability 134 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: to reach those And so making the content is hard 135 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: because I think of that for other people as well. 136 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: Like if I'm telling you this sweater from Ralph Lauren 137 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: is amazing quality, I think it'll last you. If the 138 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: design is amazing, at the end of the day, you 139 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: don't need this sweater. And if people go and buy 140 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: the sweater, nine times out of ten, I'm not getting 141 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: a kickback out of anything I'm selling quote unquote selling. 142 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: I'm just sharing what I like. And so if I'm 143 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: just sharing what I like, they're buying it when there 144 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: may be an I in a position to buy it. 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm not making money. They're not making money, they're losing money. 146 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: It's like who really won at the end of the 147 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: day just Roth Lauren, and I love Roth Lauren. No, 148 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: no shame to rolp Lauren. But it's a tough, weird 149 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: space to be in because I do want people to 150 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: make smart choices. I want to make smart choices. I've 151 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: been very honest on the platform about my own struggles 152 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: with over consumption where I'm in a weird space where 153 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: being personal finance obsessed. I am not in any trouble 154 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: with money. I'm on track for retirement, I have my 155 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: emergency savings, like I'm right where I should be. But 156 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: at the same time, my shopping can feel out of control. 157 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: And so I've been very honest in talks on the 158 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: platform with my followers around the emotional aspect of shopping 159 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: and it being about more than just what you can afford. 160 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: It's like, do you feel like you are in control 161 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: of your life or do you feel like shopping is 162 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: running you? 163 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something I've had to really get honest with 164 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: myself about that when it comes to shopping. So the 165 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: mix of shopping with social media consumption, they're two things. 166 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: They're like, you know, two evils in my life that 167 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: have now been like merged. Where I feel like with 168 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: social media it really encourages me to compare my life 169 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: to others. And then shopping is like, oh, do you 170 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: feel insecure in this way? Here's the solution. By this thing, 171 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: this will make you feel better. 172 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel insecure, you feel sad, you feel lonely, 173 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, like any of these negative feelings, like shopping 174 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: is there to fill the void. It's not any different 175 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: than binge eating, you know, any sort of thing that's 176 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: just tamping down your emotions. And at the same time, 177 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: shopping is essential in a very similar way to eating 178 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: is essential. Right, You're not going to stop shopping altogether. 179 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 1: You will need new clothes at a certain point, you 180 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: will need a lo bottle at a certain point. You 181 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: may not need forty Stanley tumblers. But like you are 182 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: going to have to make decisions about your shopping. 183 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: So like me, have you seen these like TikTok shop 184 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: videos taking over your fyp? 185 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: Oh, it's been astronomical. There are so many every time 186 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: I swipe through, and I almost feel like I'm not 187 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: in a position to be able to critique them, even 188 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: though I'm so tired of them because I've made like 189 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: two or three. I made two I was supposed to 190 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: make three. Because how it works is that TikTok gives 191 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: you a certain amount of credit to spend in the 192 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: TikTok shop, so you can get free credit. I got 193 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: two lip glosses and a cream blush for free, and 194 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: I think I got sixty dollars worth of credit. And 195 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: then you have to make videos about whatever you bought 196 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: through TikTok shop. And so I made one video, didn't 197 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: do great, made another one did do great, and I 198 00:10:58,280 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: was like, I didn't even want to make the third one, 199 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: Like the loop glass I got is fine, it's not amazing. 200 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: This color. The first one I got was like a 201 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: nice color. This color doesn't look as good on me. 202 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to make this content, 203 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: but you have to, and I didn't make it, so 204 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: I have like a mark against my account. So I 205 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: feel for I feel for the people who are making 206 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: their required videos, the people that are making like video 207 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: after video after video and they don't have the requirement. 208 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: They bug me, but I get them because I get them. 209 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: It's you have all these followers. You probably don't make 210 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: that much money at your job, because like who does 211 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: these days, you have a platform that you can monetize 212 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: it's easy to do. TikTok is boosting some of those 213 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: videos with the algorithm. Why wouldn't you do it? 214 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: This is why I love you and I love your 215 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: content because I feel like I can trust you. You like, 216 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: keep it so fucking real, Like I didn't know any 217 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: of what you just said, but it makes so much sense. 218 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: Is being an influencer somebody who is trying to get 219 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: people to buy things at odds with being somebody who 220 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: is fundamentally honest and critical because I see you as both. 221 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: How does that work? 222 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: I mean how it works is that I don't make 223 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: very much money. 224 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: You're like, I have another job. 225 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a full time job, and I've gone 226 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: through some of the economics of being a TikTok influencer 227 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: before on my account, where there's essentially three different ways 228 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: you can make money. It's probably more income streams that 229 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: are available to certain people, but these are the three 230 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: ways that are available for me. One, you can do 231 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: an AD with an outside company, right, so you'll create 232 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: a TikTok they'll pay you for it. I've done one 233 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: ad before. You can also do affiliate links, so you 234 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: show something on TikTok. You have a platform like like 235 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: to Know It or like shot my I have a 236 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: shot my page personally, and so they go and they 237 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: click through on the page and they can click through 238 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: what you were talking about, and if they buy through 239 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: your link, then you'll get a kickback from that, you'll 240 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: get commissioned. Same with the Amazon storefront. It's the same 241 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: exact idea, except for the platform as Amazon. So through 242 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: my shot my page, I've made under one hundred dollars. 243 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: Through my Amazon storefront, I made a couple thousand because 244 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: I was I had made a video about a walking pad. 245 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 2: I the inclined walking pad. I'm possibly about to pull 246 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: the trigger because of you on that walking pad. By 247 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: the way, I. 248 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 1: Still recommend it, especially as the weather's getting colder and 249 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: you don't want to do your walks outside. But because 250 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: that's a more high dollar amount item, I was able 251 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 1: to get a bigger commission back, which is why I 252 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: made a couple thousand through Amazon, which is that was 253 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: just a short period of time that's definitely slowed. And 254 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: then the third way money is the Creativity program. So 255 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: there's the Creator's Fund and then there's a Creativity Program Beta, 256 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: and I think they're kind of trying to move people 257 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: to the beta. But if you make a video over 258 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: one minute long, then it's eligible for a kick maack 259 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: based on how many people view the video. So and 260 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: that is I mean, it depends. I guess how many 261 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: abews you're getting. People that are have like way way 262 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: way high views all the time are gonna make can 263 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: make so much money. But I mean I have like 264 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: forty thousand followers. I probably have like one or two 265 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: viral videos a month, and that comes out to a 266 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: couple hundred dollars. It is much harder to be honest 267 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: when there are a bunch of brands knocking down your door. 268 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: I did a Empties video for those who don't know. 269 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: An Empties video is your skincare and makeup Empties things 270 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: you finished, You go through and you talk about them, 271 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: what you liked, what you didn't like. This video was 272 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: all about ones that I've repurch so I like them 273 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: so much. I boughted again and I said, I tend 274 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: to stick with my same old skincare, same old makeup. 275 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: I try a couple of new things, but I buy 276 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: what I like. Realistically, if another brand comes knocking down 277 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: my door, I say, I've been using this retin All 278 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: to Hide serum for three years now, and you come 279 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: knocking down my door and you're like, I want you 280 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: to sell this retin all to Hide zerrum. For me, 281 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: that's a tough position to be in. Someone's offering you, 282 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: like a couple thousand dollars to try the retin all 283 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: to Hide serum. And here's the thing. It could be 284 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: a great serum. And it's not a lie. I'm not 285 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: saying you're going to be tempted to lie, but you 286 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: are kind of pretending that this item was so good 287 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: that it broke you out of your routine, that the 288 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: whole reason you tried a new item was just because. 289 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: And it's like, no, this company came to me and 290 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: said try this. And here's the thing. If a company 291 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: came to me and said try this, I would try it. 292 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: If I liked it, I would talk about it. But 293 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: more likely than that, you're going to see me come 294 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: back to my old prom. And that's the part about 295 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: being an influencer where it's so tricky and so murky. 296 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, you liked the product, but did you 297 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: like it like it? Did you love it? Love it? 298 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: Should I really buy it? 299 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break ed er back. So I 300 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: do feel like that tightrope of like I'm'm watching a 301 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: friend who is just genuinely giving me a tip, genuinely 302 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: just giving me advice about a product they loved, or 303 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: is this like it's they have a financial incentive or 304 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: a little bit of both. I think that's something that 305 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: makes TikTok a little bit unique because on Instagram it 306 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: is full of like pretty people who look polished and perfect, 307 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: who are obviously getting paid and they probably don't use 308 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: these products. I know that when I'm scrolling Instagram, So 309 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: if I get taken and I buy something, it's kind 310 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: of on me. I get that. On TikTok, it feels 311 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: a little bit different because the vibe, the nature of TikTok, 312 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: I don't know, it just makes it a little hard 313 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 2: to resist. I think like it's like there is a 314 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 2: vibe where it's just someone who seems like a friend 315 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: chatting with me about a product they found that they 316 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: really love, and it kind of mixes what I think 317 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: makes TikTok good in the first place, right, Like this 318 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: aspect of like an interesting person that I can sort 319 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 2: of see myself in telling me something on Instagram, It's 320 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 2: like very aspirational, right, the person that I suppire to 321 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: be on TikTok, It's like the person that I aspire 322 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 2: to be is like polished, effortlessly beautiful. On TikTok, it's 323 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: the person who I actually am, right, like lazy and 324 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: easily entertained by novelty. And that is what gets me. 325 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: There is something about TikTok that I think is uniquely 326 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: poised to make me want to buy shit that I 327 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 2: don't need more than other platforms. Do you ever find that? 328 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely. I think one thing that people will sometimes 329 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: say to me in my comment is it feels like 330 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: we're just friends chatting on FaceTime. And I think that's 331 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of what you're getting at where it's so low fi. 332 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: People are just very casual. It's like you're talking to 333 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: a buddy, and of course they're going to trust your buddy. 334 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: Why was your buddy lie to you? 335 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: Right? 336 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: And I think that that piece of it not being 337 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: polished is what makes it so dangerous, because everyone seems 338 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: just like you. But one thing that I feel like 339 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: nobody really thinks about when they're watching these creators is 340 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: that to be a creator in a lot of instances, 341 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: you have to come in with a certain amount of money, right, 342 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 1: Like you need money to buy the items that you 343 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: are then reviewing and recommending. You need money to buy 344 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: the clothes that you're showing off. And so you look 345 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: at this person and you're like, oh, you're just like me. 346 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: You're buying this. I could buy this, you can afford this, 347 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: I can afford this. But chances are they're not, Like, 348 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: even if they are not making a bunch of money 349 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: on TikTok, they are probably in a cushier financial situation 350 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: than you, and that's why they're able to make such 351 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: varied content. 352 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not necessarily showing their like rich partner, and 353 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: I'm thinking like, oh, we're in the same income bracket, 354 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 2: and it's like, no, you're actually not, Like you are 355 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 2: actually making a bad financial decision right now. So from 356 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 2: my own unscientific anecdotal experiences, TikTok shop content is taking 357 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: over the platform and increasing the overall amount of ad 358 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: content on the platform. I'm not alone. Business Insider actually 359 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 2: looked into it. They had one of their reporters watch 360 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: five hundred videos on TikTok. One found that about seventy 361 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: two percent for regular TikTok videos, while thirty percent were adds. 362 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 2: Another found that sixty four percent of the content was 363 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: normal content and thirty six percent was product related. So 364 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: it does seem like there is more and more of 365 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: this kind of content on TikTok right now. The products 366 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 2: that I'm seeing, they range from like fitness products, which 367 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: always get me, electric bathroom scrubbers, which like in your 368 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: face TikTok algorithm, I would never buy a fucking like 369 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 2: bathroom cleaning products, so you're off on that one. Like 370 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: this chair that you can sit however you want, which 371 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: like speaks to me as a queer person, because the 372 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: Internet supposedly says that like queer people love to sit 373 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: in chairs in unusual ways, we won't sit in a 374 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 2: chair a normal way. Two products that I have to 375 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: say I did buy on TikTok shop. One was a 376 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: set of water color paints that I am perfectly happy with. 377 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: I saw it everywhere and I was like, I gotta 378 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 2: buy this. So another purchase from TikTok that I'm a 379 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: little more embarrassed about was this jar of perfumed body oil. Well, 380 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: keep in mind, I have never worn perfume in my life. 381 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 2: I am not a perfume person. So it's this TikTok 382 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 2: that shows a woman who bought this body oil. She 383 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: puts it on, and then she has a hidden camera 384 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: that I guess is meant to show her partner his 385 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 2: genuine reaction to her wearing this body oil. He comes, 386 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: he hugs her, and he kind of, upon smelling this 387 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: body oil, scoops her up in this warm, loving, seductive embrace. 388 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 2: I don't even wear perfumes. I am kind of bothered 389 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 2: by sense, but even I was like, I want to 390 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 2: be scooped up lovingly and seductively. I gotta buy this 391 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 2: body oil. So it just goes to show that TikTok's algorithm, 392 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 2: we know, is so good at getting a sense of 393 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 2: and projecting back to you your own triggers, your own weaknesses, 394 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: your own tension spots, the things that you maybe have 395 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 2: a little bit of a hang up about. And then 396 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: when you add in this consumerism aspect of TikTok shop, 397 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: it then adds in that knowledge about us all and 398 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: reflects back to you this product that purports to like 399 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 2: fill the need that that week spot opens. And when 400 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 2: that happens, well then you're like me, and you're pulling 401 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 2: the trigger on a jar of perfumed body oil when 402 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: you don't even like perfumes. I do want to say 403 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: that TikTok Shop is available for both small businesses and 404 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 2: also fast big retailers as well. So you could be 405 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: getting like a lovingly created small artists and piece that 406 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: or you could be getting like a piece of crap 407 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: that might not even be legit. In a piece called 408 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: the junk is Winning for the Atlantic, Amanda Mall argues, 409 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: the quality of items that are being hogked on TikTok 410 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: might be a little bit questionable, plastic junk that will 411 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 2: could immediately break or even counterfeit goods, and this might 412 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: actually be a feature of the program itself. Mall rights because, 413 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 2: like Amazon, TikTok Shop uses a marketplace model which aggregates 414 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: listings created by more than two hundred thousand third party 415 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 2: sellers into a single shopping with a single checkout system. 416 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: This system allows retailers to offer lots of products without 417 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: taking the financial risk of buying and managing inventory upfront. Amazon, Walmart, Target, 418 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 2: among both other major retailers and upstarts, use variations of 419 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 2: this marketplace model. For a significant chunk of inventory. Sellers 420 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: buy the inventory, create the listings, and in many cases 421 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: ship the orders themselves, assuming most of the risks and 422 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 2: doing most of the work. The platform takes a cut 423 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 2: of their sales in exchange for access to their audience 424 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 2: of potential buyers. This model has become popular because it 425 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: allows wanna be retailers to spin up the online equivalent 426 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 2: of a big box store relatively quickly and with less invement. 427 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: An obvious downside of this model is that the inventory 428 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 2: just has less hands on management, so that can be misleading, unreliable, 429 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: or even dangerous. Amandamal Atlantic Journalists spoke to a TikTok 430 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: spokesperson who said the algorithm plus human moderation is supposed 431 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 2: to weed out bad products that do not meet their standards. However, 432 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: this does not always account for problem listings, saying quote, 433 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 2: Sometimes problems go unnoticed until people start reporting issues, like 434 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 2: listings that will use stock images that do not depict 435 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: the product they are actually selling, or omit important details 436 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: on sizing or material composition, or offer counterfeit and potentially 437 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 2: unsafe products. Even legitimate listings from scrupulous sellers can make 438 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: for a confusing or scammy feeling shopping experience because sellers 439 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 2: create a lot of duplicate listings for save the same products. 440 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: That is especially common on TikTok, where sellers rush to 441 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 2: meet demand for a handful of products that have captivated 442 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 2: the platform at any particular moment. So if you've ever 443 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: thought that like shopping on TikTok, or just like being 444 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 2: on TikTok felt kind of scammy, this is probably partially why. 445 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 2: And I think that there's like just something about this 446 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: that feels a little bit scammy. This journalist Amanda Mola 447 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: describes being served an ad for a hair brush where 448 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: some places advertise it for five dollars, some people two dollars, 449 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: some people fifteen, some people ten, and it makes people 450 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: wonder like is this a counterfeit hair brush? Like is 451 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: this an add I can really trust? Then other people 452 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 2: go on and they're like, no, no, some people are 453 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: selling scammy counterfit hair brushes. I will give you the 454 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 2: like real hair brush at this price. And it just 455 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: creates this experience where it just doesn't feel good. Let 456 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 2: alone feel like a place where you want to like 457 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: add in your financial or credit card information. You know, 458 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: who wants to hang out in a digital place where 459 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: it feels like there's a scam behind every corner. More 460 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: after a quick break, let's get right back into it. 461 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: So also with how quickly TikTok has rolled this out, 462 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 2: it feels like moderation is kind of becoming an issue. 463 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: NBC News is Cat ten Barge found last month that 464 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 2: young people like miners, are cashing in on selling stuff 465 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: on this newly rolled out TikTok shop. In a statement 466 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: responding to questions about the present of teens on TikTok shop, 467 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 2: a TikTok representative said, as TikTok Shop rolls out in 468 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 2: the US, we continue to evolve our safeguards and are 469 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: taking steps to address this issue. TikTok asks users for 470 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: their age when they sign up for an account, but 471 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 2: there's an obvious, like easy to evade loophole, which is 472 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: like people can just lie about their age and pretend 473 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 2: to be older than they are. There's also this a 474 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 2: big issue of counterfeit products. Now, you and I both 475 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 2: know TikTok is big on doops that they love being like, oh, 476 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 2: you want this product that's really pricey. Here's a doop 477 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 2: where they show a similar product for less money. But 478 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: This could also include products that are illegal counterfeits. TikTok 479 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: says they ban quote the advertising and sale of all 480 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: counterfeit products. By ensuring the safety and authenticity of products 481 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: sold on our platform, we create a positive shopping experience 482 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 2: that users can have confidence in the policy ads. But 483 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 2: a report by The Guardian back in April suggests that 484 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 2: maybe the rules are not being super effectively enforced, with 485 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 2: illicit beauty products routinely being promoted to users via their 486 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: content feeds and search results. Since TikTok takes a cut, 487 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: they're kind of essentially profiting off of the sale of 488 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: counterfeit goods. The Guardian report reads, not out of the 489 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 2: first twelve results shown to people searching quote perfume in 490 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: the TikTok Shop section of the app appeared to be counterfeit. 491 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: The products included variations of do Your's Savage perfume I'm 492 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: probably mispronouncing that savage perfume with names such as swab 493 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,719 Speaker 2: or Savage, and a copy of Victor and Rolf's flower 494 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: Bomb perfume, which looks the same at first glance but 495 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: was actually called mark In. So I don't think that 496 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: like buying counterfeit goods is great, but like I'm not 497 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 2: crying tears for do you or they have plenty of money. 498 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: But it's not just that these products can be fake 499 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: and scamy and maybe illegal, they can also be harmful. 500 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 2: TikTok bans the sale of prescription only medicines such as 501 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 2: acne skin creams and skin whitening creams that contain banned ingredients. 502 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 2: But when the skin cream trett None was taking off 503 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: on TikTok, for instance, which you need a prescription to buy, 504 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: you could also buy it on TikTok shop. So there's 505 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 2: a reason why this is prescription only. It contains products 506 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: that might interact with medications and cause fetal abnormalities if 507 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: you're pregnant, so it's generally recommended to use under like 508 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: medical or like doctors supervision. The Guardian spoke to doctor 509 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: Jane Ravencroft of the British Association of Dermatologists, who said 510 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: the illicit sale of skin creams was a major concern 511 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: and a major public health risk. She said, Unfortunately, people 512 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 2: selling these prescription products illegally are on people's insecurities and naivete. 513 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: Social media adds fuel to the fire. Now I should 514 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: say that TikTok eventually did add a block for searches 515 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: for this product and then removed listings from third party 516 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: vendors that you know referred to this ingredient in their 517 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: in their posts after this this report was published. So 518 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: it does seem like the rollout of this has maybe 519 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 2: been a little bit iffy. But the question that I 520 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: want to ask is like, is it here to stay 521 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 2: From the research that I have seen, the answer is 522 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: maybe question mark. This kind of shopping platform functionality. It's 523 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: much more common in places like China, where TikTok is based, 524 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: with brands like Timu, and I think that TikTok is 525 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: kind of betting that it's going to take off in 526 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: the United States too, So like imaginative Amazon and TikTok, 527 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 2: we're to merge into one super app where you consumed content, 528 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 2: made content, but also shopped every day. It's kind of 529 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: like an everything app, the kind of thing that I 530 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 2: think that Elon Musk is hoping to turn Twitter or 531 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 2: x into. But so far, I do think it might 532 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: be a bit of an abrupt cultural shift to bring 533 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 2: that kind of app to the United States. Facebook and 534 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 2: Instagram both tried out live shopping functionality, only to later 535 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 2: face them out. In Indonesia, one of the countries where 536 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: TikTok first rolled out, TikTok Shop, TikTok Shop has now 537 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 2: been banned and shut down after the country banned commerce 538 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 2: on social media platforms. According to The New York Times, 539 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: the rules essentially mandate the separation of e commerce and 540 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 2: social media, and they're meant to protect local merchants, prevent 541 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: algorithms from dominating the market, and stop the use of 542 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: personal data for business purposes. So to be clear here, 543 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: I am not trying to demonize people who make content 544 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: on TikTok shop to make money, because, on the one hand, 545 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 2: like I kind of respect it. You know, making money 546 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: from platforms like TikTok is difficult as a creator, especially 547 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: considering what you said that like TikTok is kind of 548 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: shying away from their creator platform. You know, this billion 549 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 2: dollar product money that was to be doled out to 550 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: people who make viral tiktoks and such like. I understand 551 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 2: that people need to make money. I've also heard reports 552 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: of small businesses saying that they really find success from 553 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 2: TikTok and like it will blow up their blow up 554 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: their businesses. And I think that's great, So I don't 555 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: want to demonize the people who are, you know, making 556 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: money get your check. I'm with you. However, I do 557 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: think that it's fair to be critical of the way 558 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: that TikTok shop is being rolled out and how it's 559 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: impacting the platform. You know, if we're seeing more and 560 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: more ads on TikTok and it's feeling like walking around 561 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: us scamming flea market, it is a problem. Maybe it's 562 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 2: one of those like don't hate the player, hate the 563 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: game kind of things where it's like, yeah, don't demonize 564 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 2: individual creators, but do ask questions about why and how 565 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: one of the biggest social media platforms in the world, 566 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: why their endgame is ultimately to become this like massive 567 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: e commerce app, you know. And I also just think 568 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: it's like tiresome that, like all we can expect from 569 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 2: our digital experiences is being told to buy more stuff. 570 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: I can understand why people feel this is like almost dystopian. 571 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: You know, A teenager taking breaks in between classes to 572 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 2: tell me a grown woman what kind of bathroom scrubber 573 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: to buy does feel fundamentally kind of bleak. And I think, 574 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 2: especially in this moment in time, that we're in right 575 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 2: now that feels like genuine, you know, social and political upheaval. 576 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: Having our largest communications platforms turning toward feeling more like 577 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: digital scammy flea markets rather than places to find information, 578 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: connection and community does feel weird. Like I feel like 579 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 2: I would rather open TikTok right now and find information 580 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: about what's going on in the world, not like, hey, 581 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: buy this whatever you know it might fall apart in 582 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: three days when you open it. I get why people 583 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: are expressing that it feels dystopian or weird. And I 584 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: also think it feels like a fundamental lack of imagination 585 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: that we can't have better because I do fundamentally think 586 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: that we can have I mean, I think that you 587 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 2: embody this that like we can have consumerism, we can 588 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: buy things that we like, we can say for things, 589 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 2: we can make smart financial decisions and make intentional choices 590 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: about where and how we spend our money and also 591 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 2: be critical about consumerism, be critical about how we spend 592 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 2: our money, where we put our money, where the platforms 593 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: that we that we make purchases on like the their practices. 594 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: I think it's possible that we can do both, like 595 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 2: have there be buying things that we like while also 596 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 2: being critical of the system in which we buy them. 597 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think that it's definitely difficult to hold both 598 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: of those, but it's definitely essential to as well. These 599 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: pms take up a ton of our time and our 600 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: attention and now a bunch of our money, and I 601 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: think it's important to be really reflective and really critical 602 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: of why you're shopping, where you're shopping, who you're shopping from, 603 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: and if you're shopping is putting you in a good 604 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: financial position. 605 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the over consumerism part I think is 606 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 2: so important that you bring up on TikTok. Things move 607 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: so quickly, including trends, So one week the trend is 608 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 2: one thing, the next week the trend is something else. 609 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 2: No one could possibly keep up with how quickly these 610 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: trends come and go on TikTok. So one week the 611 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: trend might be everybody's buying this pastel mirror. The next 612 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: week it's going to be something else. It creates this 613 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: digital churn and burn where you're constantly buying. The algorithm 614 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 2: itself is inflaming that, keeping us all locked into this 615 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 2: never ending cycle of digital fueled consumerism, and at the 616 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: heart of it, is really this empty idea that if 617 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: you buy the exact right thing, buy the thing that's 618 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 2: gonna make your house look exactly a certain way, you 619 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 2: will be happy. This need inside of you will be fulfilled. 620 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 2: But it keeps you locked into this algorithmically generated cycle 621 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: of never ending consumerism, and that cycle just keeps you 622 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: away from the fact that maybe your house is fine 623 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 2: the way it is. Maybe you don't need to buy 624 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 2: a million things to make your house look a certain 625 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 2: way for you to feel fulfilled and happy. Yeah. 626 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: I think once you hit the point where you're emptying 627 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: out your spices into different spice stars so that they 628 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 1: all match, like you're too far gone, like you gotta 629 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: reel it in. And I've caught myself like why, I'm like, oh, 630 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't that be nice? And it's like no, that's honest, 631 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: that's like psychotic, and like, yes, I'm pulling myself, pulling 632 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: myself back to reality. I think it's a reality check. 633 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: Is something we could all use when it comes to 634 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: social media. 635 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 2: Definitely, the spice thing is a good one. I saw 636 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 2: somebody's bridge on TikTok and I was like, guy, should 637 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 2: dump all my eggs into a clear plastic thing and 638 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: then write eggs and coursive. But I was like, wait, no, 639 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: I would never use them. This would be like, this 640 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,919 Speaker 2: is a setup for me to have all my food 641 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 2: items go to waste. I would never use that. So, 642 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 2: if you really really are listening to this and you're like, 643 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 2: I hate TikTok shop, what can I do if you 644 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 2: never want to see it again? You actually can turn 645 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 2: it off. You can go to your profile, open the 646 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 2: menu in the top right, hit settings and privacy and 647 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 2: then content preferences, filter video keywords, and then add hashtag 648 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 2: TikTok shop, and you will never see it again. If 649 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 2: you really are like over it, you're welcome. Tamika. Thank 650 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 2: you so much for like explaining all of this to 651 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 2: us and just helping us understand that you can enjoy shopping, 652 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 2: enjoy being pretty, enjoy buying things while also being critical. 653 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 2: Tell us where folks can find your content and what 654 00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: you're up to. 655 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: You can find me on TikTok it is at pretty critical, 656 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: and then I am to a lesser extent but working 657 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 1: on it on Instagram, which is at pretty critical. 658 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 2: Underscore. You are one of my favorite social media follows. 659 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 2: If you want someone who will tell you what to buy, 660 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 2: but also like give you a sense behind a curtain 661 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 2: of like what's going on with how we spend, how 662 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 2: we decide what to buy. Definitely follow Tamika. You are 663 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 2: a real one. Thank you so much for being here. 664 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,439 Speaker 2: This was so fun. 665 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, it really was. 666 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or 667 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 2: just want to say hi? You can be just said 668 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 2: Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts 669 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 2: for today's episode at tenggody dot com. There Are No 670 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. 671 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland 672 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and 673 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, 674 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 2: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate 675 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 2: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 676 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 2: check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 677 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: get your podcasts.