WEBVTT - The Final Autopsy 0:00:07.565 --> 0:00:15.005 The School of Humans. We found a tape in Ron 0:00:15.045 --> 0:00:19.285 Ward's boxes from two thousand and seven. In it, he's 0:00:19.325 --> 0:00:22.645 reading a letter that his lawyer, Jerry Sallings, had received 0:00:22.685 --> 0:00:26.245 from the Special Prosecutor Tim Williamson. If you and your 0:00:26.285 --> 0:00:30.325 clients do not wish to state to attempt to obtain 0:00:30.445 --> 0:00:35.885 additional forensic evidence to be used in this criminal investigation, 0:00:36.325 --> 0:00:40.245 I suggest you buy your request for any youngty's relief. 0:00:40.845 --> 0:00:43.365 The letter informs him that the state intends to do 0:00:43.445 --> 0:00:47.805 another exhumation and autopsy on Jennie. Great efforts have been 0:00:47.845 --> 0:00:55.085 taken to schedulist exhamation and autopsy. My experts cannot be 0:00:55.205 --> 0:01:00.205 present again for several weeks, and doctor Burnell or whichever 0:01:00.445 --> 0:01:07.525 family medical expert is present and only observed. Now, come on, now, 0:01:08.285 --> 0:01:12.925 Ron is frustrated. He doesn't understand why Tim Williamson doesn't 0:01:12.965 --> 0:01:16.445 trust doctor Burnell's conclusion that Jennie was hit in the 0:01:16.485 --> 0:01:19.885 face with a blunt object, that her death was a homicide. 0:01:20.165 --> 0:01:24.245 Doctor Burnell not just some kind of backyard warm dog. 0:01:24.405 --> 0:01:29.605 You know, he's a high incredible pathologist. Why on earth 0:01:29.725 --> 0:01:35.965 that he wanted to question a renowned pathologists that him 0:01:36.005 --> 0:01:39.285 back here? I have no speculation. The Word family had 0:01:39.365 --> 0:01:43.485 painstakingly had Janie's body exhumed and autopsied a second time. 0:01:44.485 --> 0:01:47.525 Why did Tim Williamson need to do this again? We 0:01:47.645 --> 0:01:52.645 have got to file an injunction. Otherwise we'd be saying 0:01:52.725 --> 0:01:56.405 we didn't believe doctor Buranell. We go along with the state. 0:01:57.325 --> 0:02:00.125 We didn't believe doctor Burnell. We don't want our daughter's 0:02:00.165 --> 0:02:03.805 remains removed and affered with again. No, but we know 0:02:03.885 --> 0:02:09.725 it's it's we can't prevent, but we can in assert. Hey, hey, look, 0:02:10.405 --> 0:02:13.765 we don't agree with this. We agree with doctor Vernell's 0:02:13.805 --> 0:02:17.485 find these and all of the investigation that we've done 0:02:17.485 --> 0:02:21.005 is just born. Now what your excuse? We're not agreeing 0:02:21.405 --> 0:02:25.805 with doctor Vernell. Three years and over ten thousand dollars later, 0:02:26.565 --> 0:02:30.245 Tim Williamson said he did not find any conclusive evidence 0:02:30.485 --> 0:02:34.765 that Janie's death was a homicide. In the end, he 0:02:34.805 --> 0:02:39.165 can't determine anything, So in August of two thousand and seven, 0:02:39.725 --> 0:02:44.445 they exhumed Janey's body one more time for a final autopsy. 0:02:45.845 --> 0:03:23.125 I'm Catherine Townsend and this is hell and gone. Janey's 0:03:23.125 --> 0:03:28.725 third autopsy is a spectacle. With Mike Masterson's columns Arkansas's 0:03:28.765 --> 0:03:32.285 attention is on the case. Everyone is waiting to see 0:03:32.485 --> 0:03:36.205 what will happen this time. Tim Williamson finds an out 0:03:36.245 --> 0:03:39.885 of state pathologist to perform the autopsy. He wants someone 0:03:39.925 --> 0:03:44.805 whose credentials are impeccable, someone who is not controversial, someone 0:03:44.925 --> 0:03:47.605 who can help him convince the Ward family and the 0:03:47.605 --> 0:03:50.685 rest of the state that he is being completely impartial 0:03:51.205 --> 0:03:55.245 the cause of the conflicts and the concerns of the family. 0:03:55.285 --> 0:03:58.845 Of anyone in the state of Arkansas doing this, they 0:03:58.845 --> 0:04:03.285 had questions that everybody's involvement completely. So we were trying 0:04:03.325 --> 0:04:06.565 to stay as independent as possible and give them the 0:04:06.605 --> 0:04:11.445 greatest assurance and afford them the opportunity to know that 0:04:11.485 --> 0:04:15.045 we've done everything we possibly could do to do an independent, 0:04:15.405 --> 0:04:20.965 totally independent, complete review. I got to looking for medical 0:04:21.325 --> 0:04:24.725 examiners or pathologists nationally recognized so that we could bring 0:04:24.765 --> 0:04:28.565 somebody from out of state inn to actually do this investigation. 0:04:28.885 --> 0:04:32.965 And doctor John Plus out of Indianapolis. It was by 0:04:33.045 --> 0:04:37.805 far and above the most appropriate choice. We've had a painstaking, 0:04:37.925 --> 0:04:42.005 step by step process for the exhumation. The family had 0:04:42.005 --> 0:04:45.085 a right to be president as a representative president. We 0:04:45.605 --> 0:04:48.125 did not want anyone saying that we had in any 0:04:48.165 --> 0:04:53.845 way interfered for a manipulated Jamie's body before this could 0:04:53.845 --> 0:04:57.005 be done. So when we had her exumed, there was 0:04:57.005 --> 0:04:59.925 a state police president, law enforcement president and a press 0:04:59.965 --> 0:05:04.485 presence at the cemetery. We transported her to the state 0:05:04.525 --> 0:05:10.085 crime Lab, and because of the family's concerns about they 0:05:10.125 --> 0:05:13.405 were concerned that the crime lab might similar another try 0:05:13.405 --> 0:05:18.085 to manipulate the findings or tasts, or again the body 0:05:18.125 --> 0:05:21.565 before a chance to be examined. We placed her body 0:05:21.605 --> 0:05:25.765 into a sealed, locked room and we sealed it controlled 0:05:25.805 --> 0:05:27.645 access to it. E Woun put a camera in motion 0:05:27.765 --> 0:05:31.365 sens her cameras up. I think they alleviated any concerns 0:05:31.685 --> 0:05:35.965 that might be about any manipulation of any evidence. The 0:05:36.005 --> 0:05:39.485 words make it clear they don't trust Tim Williamson or 0:05:39.565 --> 0:05:42.885 the crime lab. They want to make sure that the 0:05:42.925 --> 0:05:47.685 pathologists selected doctor John Plus will do an accurate autopsy. 0:05:49.005 --> 0:05:51.845 They asked doctor Barnell to be present, and the autopsy 0:05:51.885 --> 0:05:54.525 had been rescheduled so that he could attend, but at 0:05:54.525 --> 0:05:58.085 the last minute doctor Burnell had a conflict and sent 0:05:58.125 --> 0:06:01.485 a different pathologist to be present for the family. There 0:06:01.485 --> 0:06:05.045 were other people supervising the autopsy as well, including an 0:06:05.085 --> 0:06:10.165 FBI consultant from ABC and a forensic anthropologist. The first 0:06:10.205 --> 0:06:13.165 stop was the University of Arkansas Medical Center, where the 0:06:13.205 --> 0:06:16.445 team put Janey's body through a CT scan to see 0:06:16.445 --> 0:06:20.365 a three D rendering of her skeleton. Then they brought 0:06:20.365 --> 0:06:23.485 the body to the Arkansas Crime Lab where every part 0:06:23.525 --> 0:06:27.485 of the body was dissected. Ron and Mona and their lawyer, 0:06:27.565 --> 0:06:31.005 Jerry Sellings met with doctor Plus and with Tim Williamson 0:06:31.445 --> 0:06:36.725 after they completed the autopsy. Ron recorded the meeting. It 0:06:36.765 --> 0:06:41.405 begins with doctor Plus explaining his results. We went quite 0:06:41.445 --> 0:06:45.365 a bit further than either doctor Malick or doctor Banell 0:06:46.605 --> 0:06:50.085 by literally removing all of the skin from the body 0:06:50.165 --> 0:06:53.605 so that we could see any evidence of hemorrhage in 0:06:53.645 --> 0:06:58.045 the soft tissues around the bond. We had the advantage 0:06:58.125 --> 0:07:02.085 of the three D X ray examination, so we knew 0:07:02.605 --> 0:07:05.325 what all was intact before we really went in there 0:07:05.965 --> 0:07:11.245 to do that. We found bruises or hemorrhages also referred 0:07:11.245 --> 0:07:16.285 to as contusions of the right elbow of the left 0:07:16.325 --> 0:07:21.765 back where doctor Mallick had made his incision. I also 0:07:21.845 --> 0:07:26.845 found multiple small hemorrhages in the eppibilotis and that's where 0:07:27.125 --> 0:07:30.445 sometimes you can get a crouton or a small piece 0:07:30.485 --> 0:07:33.805 of bread caught back in your throat and in the 0:07:33.885 --> 0:07:39.125 trachea ah, And in my experience, hemorrhages of that type 0:07:39.285 --> 0:07:43.085 are seen in people who choke on things. Those are 0:07:43.165 --> 0:07:47.725 basically my findings in the examination and my opinion that 0:07:47.845 --> 0:07:51.885 at some point or another, just prior to her collapse, 0:07:52.685 --> 0:07:57.165 she got something caught in her throat, couldn't breathe couldn't talk, 0:07:58.205 --> 0:08:03.885 and as the oxygen level was reduced, she finally collapsed. 0:08:04.645 --> 0:08:08.125 After all this time, the words get another opinion that 0:08:08.125 --> 0:08:11.485 doesn't make sense to them. No one ever described her 0:08:11.565 --> 0:08:17.085 daughter as choking and coughing. They said she was run 0:08:17.125 --> 0:08:21.005 on the ground and she would guess, but that was it. 0:08:21.125 --> 0:08:26.685 I didn't ebscribe her cho choking, though, is just an opinion. Officially, 0:08:27.285 --> 0:08:32.045 doctor Plus leaves the cause and manner of death as undetermined. 0:08:32.925 --> 0:08:36.445 He also suggests that Janie could have had a heart arrhythmia. 0:08:37.645 --> 0:08:41.845 After Janie's first and second autopsies, her organs were put 0:08:41.965 --> 0:08:45.725 in a bag inside her abdomen, but doctor Plus couldn't 0:08:45.765 --> 0:08:50.525 make an official diagnosis because Janie's heart was missing. And 0:08:50.645 --> 0:08:55.885 you know what happened to the arm someone probably a 0:08:55.965 --> 0:09:02.005 h person. An envoment must have hand those in those 0:09:02.725 --> 0:09:05.165 That's the only reason I can think of why they 0:09:05.165 --> 0:09:08.605 wouldn't be there. Is that normal for a heart to 0:09:08.645 --> 0:09:12.245 be missing when you have the other organs. It's not normal, 0:09:12.685 --> 0:09:15.525 but it happens. I've seen it had a before. Doctor 0:09:15.605 --> 0:09:20.965 Plas also completely disagrees with doctor Manew's most significant findings. 0:09:21.685 --> 0:09:25.725 He says he sees absolutely no evidence of his spinal injury. 0:09:25.965 --> 0:09:29.085 Ron is shocked and pulls out the photos that doctor 0:09:29.125 --> 0:09:35.685 Malik said to him. Photograph sent to doctor Malik himself 0:09:36.885 --> 0:09:41.245 that shows the voter ragmen cut in a levelment deck demand. 0:09:41.965 --> 0:09:47.565 It shows the spinal chord exposed. Did you put jagging torn? 0:09:47.645 --> 0:09:52.845 Did you say that? All? Yes? Okay? And that was 0:09:52.925 --> 0:09:56.845 all done by doctor Malik and his examination of an X. 0:09:58.085 --> 0:10:03.285 There's no evidence of any hemorrhay. I know this looks red, 0:10:04.525 --> 0:10:07.805 and this looked pretty bad when you look at it, 0:10:07.845 --> 0:10:11.565 but there's no hemorrhage there that you would expect to 0:10:11.605 --> 0:10:15.645 see if it were a blunt force injury of any kind. 0:10:15.805 --> 0:10:20.005 And what he made of thought final could conflict. That 0:10:20.165 --> 0:10:24.725 was part of his examination of the body. If not 0:10:25.525 --> 0:10:28.765 anything that was done prior to the autopsy. It's all 0:10:28.845 --> 0:10:32.925 modifications that he has made in his examination on the body. 0:10:33.965 --> 0:10:37.285 Doctor Plus also says he didn't see any evidence of 0:10:37.325 --> 0:10:41.325 abrasions or trauma on Janie's face. When pressed by the 0:10:41.365 --> 0:10:44.805 ward's lawyer, he admits he didn't take any samples from 0:10:44.805 --> 0:10:48.405 the face to look out microscopically. Doctor Plus says it's 0:10:48.405 --> 0:10:51.125 because it wouldn't have made any difference because he didn't 0:10:51.125 --> 0:10:54.125 see any hemorrhaging. Why didn't you tell the samples because 0:10:54.125 --> 0:11:00.405 there was no hemorrhy in associatedation with those areas, kailed 0:11:00.885 --> 0:11:04.285 that there was no underlying hemorrhage, so there was no 0:11:04.365 --> 0:11:07.685 reason to take sections. And again, if for no other 0:11:07.725 --> 0:11:12.085 reason than to discuss the findings that doctor Burnell has, well, 0:11:12.285 --> 0:11:14.365 that would be true, but I don't think it really 0:11:14.365 --> 0:11:18.805 would have made any difference. You understanding interesting? Ron Ward 0:11:18.885 --> 0:11:22.645 again pulls out the photographs that doctor Mallick had given him. 0:11:23.325 --> 0:11:26.085 Ron says, it looks like there's bruising on Janie's face 0:11:26.525 --> 0:11:29.245 and a cut across her nose and blood in her mouth. 0:11:30.605 --> 0:11:35.005 And doctor Plus says this, yeah, and you did not 0:11:35.085 --> 0:11:38.045 see this a braid in the with her nose, And 0:11:39.125 --> 0:11:43.125 I think pecially those blood and there, all right, that's 0:11:43.125 --> 0:11:45.045 what it looks like. Again, I would agree with you. 0:11:45.885 --> 0:11:48.365 And I don't know what this Isn't a little bit 0:11:48.405 --> 0:11:51.685 of blooding are on top of her nose? That's well, 0:11:52.325 --> 0:11:55.485 I don't know that either. You do, Yes, I do 0:11:55.565 --> 0:11:58.685 you know? I saw my daughter. It wasn't no blood 0:11:58.765 --> 0:12:04.645 up here. This meeting gets pretty heated. The words keep 0:12:04.685 --> 0:12:07.365 going back to the photographs they got from doctor Mallet 0:12:07.645 --> 0:12:10.405 and the x rays that they insist were different from 0:12:10.405 --> 0:12:12.645 the ones they saw at the crime lab. And I 0:12:12.685 --> 0:12:14.645 don't know when, and I don't know who was involved, 0:12:15.685 --> 0:12:18.285 but I think sometimes or none of you've gotten the 0:12:18.325 --> 0:12:23.085 wrong idea about what these x rays are. And it 0:12:23.125 --> 0:12:27.245 may be just a misunderstanding. Uh. And I don't know 0:12:27.285 --> 0:12:31.005 who is misunderstanding, but it's hard for me to believe, 0:12:31.125 --> 0:12:38.005 having seen her body and examined her skeleton personally removed 0:12:38.045 --> 0:12:42.205 all the soft tissue, what I see is what what 0:12:42.285 --> 0:12:47.045 I saw, is what these photographs show, and nothing else. 0:12:48.165 --> 0:12:52.245 And there is no there is no injury. I mean, 0:12:52.285 --> 0:12:56.485 we you will accept the fact that I did examine 0:12:56.485 --> 0:13:01.485 her body, is that right? Yes? We did a thought 0:13:01.565 --> 0:13:08.845 feeling about sayin circumstances, right, this is Mona talking. She 0:13:08.965 --> 0:13:13.125 tells Doctor Plas about all the suspicious circumstances around Janie's death, 0:13:13.965 --> 0:13:17.725 but Doctor Plus says the forensic evidence doesn't match what 0:13:17.805 --> 0:13:20.605 she's telling him. People tell me all these things that 0:13:20.765 --> 0:13:23.285 you've just told me. I mean, I'm not ignorant of 0:13:23.325 --> 0:13:26.965 any of these things. People have made statements about this, 0:13:27.685 --> 0:13:33.205 mostly coming from you, Law. But when I look at 0:13:33.245 --> 0:13:37.205 a body, I have to develop my opinions from the 0:13:37.245 --> 0:13:42.645 body as welf, not from what people may feel are 0:13:42.685 --> 0:13:47.605 the circumstances. But I have to look at the body 0:13:48.125 --> 0:13:52.485 and scientifically to make an opinion about what went on. 0:13:54.245 --> 0:14:00.165 And of no injury. There's just not any injury here 0:14:00.885 --> 0:14:08.885 that would have caused your daughter's death. After the meeting 0:14:08.885 --> 0:14:12.165 with Tim Williamson and Doctor Plus, there's a press conference. 0:14:13.045 --> 0:14:17.045 It's packed with news stations from across the state. As 0:14:17.125 --> 0:14:21.765 Ron and Mona leave the press conference, they're surrounded by reporters. 0:14:23.125 --> 0:14:25.605 Ron and Mona are trying to hurry through the interviews 0:14:26.045 --> 0:14:28.885 because they know that Jane's body is being driven away 0:14:29.245 --> 0:14:32.125 back to the cemetery to get reburied. Well, we thought 0:14:32.165 --> 0:14:37.165 they were waiting for us, actually, because we were supposed 0:14:37.205 --> 0:14:41.485 to be there when they reburied her, because the first 0:14:41.525 --> 0:14:46.445 time we got to pray, you know, like a funeral, 0:14:47.085 --> 0:14:51.845 you know, like it was another funeral, and like when 0:14:51.885 --> 0:14:55.325 we had her exhumed, we got to do that. It's 0:14:55.405 --> 0:14:59.085 just so callous, you know, to just do that. It 0:14:59.165 --> 0:15:03.485 meant something. There'd been nothing to them. By the time 0:15:03.525 --> 0:15:07.125 they got to the cemetery, Janie was buried and the 0:15:07.205 --> 0:15:10.765 crew was driving away. They were supposed to have waited 0:15:10.765 --> 0:15:13.125 for the wards so that they could pray as their 0:15:13.205 --> 0:15:15.805 daughter was lowered into the ground for the third time 0:15:17.325 --> 0:15:21.925 once again. Journalist Mike Masterson was outraged at the treatment 0:15:21.965 --> 0:15:25.485 of the Wards and thought the third autopsy was horrific 0:15:25.685 --> 0:15:29.325 and supposedly they just absolutely skinned her. They there's nothing 0:15:29.405 --> 0:15:31.805 left if they wanted to do another autopsy, and that 0:15:31.925 --> 0:15:35.085 was not necessary, but they did it so they made 0:15:35.085 --> 0:15:38.325 sure there wasn't going to be a fourth exhamation. He 0:15:38.445 --> 0:15:42.045 still thinks it's totally illogical that doctor Malick would have 0:15:42.085 --> 0:15:45.005 cut and removed part of Janie's spine instead of it 0:15:45.085 --> 0:15:47.845 being torn from an injury. See Whybret, you reach out 0:15:48.245 --> 0:15:52.085 and tear her spinal cord in the canal. So no, 0:15:52.125 --> 0:15:54.845 it's just all a bunch of words. It's dissemblings. What 0:15:54.925 --> 0:15:57.285 it is, just words to try to fill air and 0:15:57.365 --> 0:16:01.685 try to confuse people. I mean, it didn't confuse me 0:16:01.805 --> 0:16:05.125 at all, and it didn't confuse most of Arkansas, I 0:16:05.125 --> 0:16:09.405 mean around the state today, all these years later, and 0:16:11.085 --> 0:16:14.445 one or two of the questions I'm ask invariably deal 0:16:14.485 --> 0:16:16.885 with Jenny Ward's case. You know, are they ever going 0:16:16.965 --> 0:16:19.725 to do anything with the Jenny Ward case? What about 0:16:19.805 --> 0:16:24.845 Jenny Ward? So it really touched the nerve this whole mess. 0:16:27.285 --> 0:16:40.805 We'll be right back. Doctor Plus's autopsy didn't provide definitive 0:16:40.805 --> 0:16:45.365 answers to how Janie died. He said she could have choked, 0:16:45.645 --> 0:16:48.485 she could have had a heart problem, and doctor Plus 0:16:48.565 --> 0:16:51.165 seemed pretty convinced that there was no sign of his 0:16:51.245 --> 0:16:54.205 final injury or a blunt forced trauma to the face. 0:16:55.005 --> 0:16:59.805 According to the forensic evidence provided by this autopsy, Jane 0:16:59.925 --> 0:17:03.005 didn't die from falling off the porch. She wasn't hitting 0:17:03.045 --> 0:17:06.325 the face with a baseball bat, didn't run into the 0:17:06.325 --> 0:17:08.805 post and then fall off the porch, as Steve Ward 0:17:08.805 --> 0:17:12.725 had suggested, and she didn't sustain a spinal injury in 0:17:12.765 --> 0:17:14.845 the truck on the bumpy roads. Back to the bank 0:17:14.885 --> 0:17:19.445 parking lot. So with this third autopsy, there is very 0:17:19.485 --> 0:17:23.205 little pointing to homicide in the forensic evidence, but at 0:17:23.205 --> 0:17:27.445 the same time, nothing is definitive about it. Her cause 0:17:27.525 --> 0:17:32.565 and manner of death remain undetermined. This seems incredible to 0:17:32.605 --> 0:17:36.805 have three different autopsies with three completely different results, and 0:17:36.845 --> 0:17:39.565 we needed to know more about how this could be possible. 0:17:40.805 --> 0:17:44.845 We found a forensic pathologist through the College of American Pathologists. 0:17:45.725 --> 0:17:48.765 Her name is Gray Stuke's and she's a board certified 0:17:48.765 --> 0:17:53.565 pathologist and a member of the College's Forensic Pathology Committee. 0:17:53.645 --> 0:17:56.365 We asked her to review the three autopsies. Our job 0:17:56.405 --> 0:18:00.085 as medical examiners is to determine a cause of death 0:18:00.405 --> 0:18:02.445 and usually the manner of death, but that can vary 0:18:02.485 --> 0:18:04.165 by a law depending on the state that you're in. 0:18:04.245 --> 0:18:08.005 Sometimes the coroner makes it distinction. At our autopsy, we 0:18:08.925 --> 0:18:13.365 can see what we see grossly and microscopically, and then 0:18:13.685 --> 0:18:17.205 the cause of death ultimately is our opinion. So in 0:18:17.245 --> 0:18:21.685 these three cases, people looked at the body, drew their 0:18:21.725 --> 0:18:25.525 own conclusions, and then formed their own opinions. I think 0:18:25.645 --> 0:18:29.525 some of the variation in the opinions comes from the 0:18:29.605 --> 0:18:33.165 fact that the body was in different states each time. 0:18:33.485 --> 0:18:37.645 You know, there had been dissections performed on it two 0:18:37.645 --> 0:18:40.725 different times by the time the third autopsy happened. So 0:18:40.765 --> 0:18:46.565 there's substantial autopsy artifact. There's decomposition artifact. You know, there's 0:18:46.645 --> 0:18:50.685 embalming artifact. There are all these factors that could alter 0:18:50.965 --> 0:18:53.845 potentially the way that things look. And then even it 0:18:54.885 --> 0:18:58.565 you know, someone doing their you know, best job at 0:18:58.605 --> 0:19:02.685 an autopsy, there can still be variability in the opinion 0:19:02.765 --> 0:19:07.845 that people draw from those findings. To review the complicated 0:19:07.965 --> 0:19:12.565 history of Janey's autopsies, let's go back to nineteen eighty nine. 0:19:13.005 --> 0:19:18.205 Two days after Jane died, doctor Fowmi Mallick conducted an autopsy. 0:19:18.245 --> 0:19:20.685 He said that the cause of death was a hyper 0:19:20.685 --> 0:19:24.685 extension neck injury from falling off the porch. The manner 0:19:24.725 --> 0:19:29.765 of death was undetermined. Doctor Malick was a controversial figure 0:19:29.805 --> 0:19:34.685 in Arkansas. In nineteen ninety one, he quit amid allegations 0:19:34.725 --> 0:19:38.925 that he bought several autopsies. In nineteen ninety two, two 0:19:39.045 --> 0:19:43.205 out of state pathologists reviewed doctor Malick's work. They didn't 0:19:43.245 --> 0:19:46.205 perform their own autopsy, but they did have access to 0:19:46.245 --> 0:19:49.445 the report, the photos, and the x rays, the ones 0:19:49.445 --> 0:19:51.685 where the side view had a white blob that blocked 0:19:51.685 --> 0:19:54.925 most of Jane's neck. These are also the X rays 0:19:54.965 --> 0:19:57.365 that the words said were different from the ones they 0:19:57.365 --> 0:20:00.925 saw at the crime lab. At the crime lab, they 0:20:00.965 --> 0:20:03.965 insisted that they saw X rays where it was clear 0:20:04.085 --> 0:20:07.005 that Janey had a broken neck, but the pathologists in 0:20:07.085 --> 0:20:10.085 nineteen ninety two said they were not convinced that Janey 0:20:10.125 --> 0:20:14.005 had his final injury. They also said the X rays 0:20:14.085 --> 0:20:18.205 looked like those of a male skull. They changed Janey's 0:20:18.205 --> 0:20:21.365 death certificate, leaving both the cause of death and the 0:20:21.405 --> 0:20:26.765 manner of death as undetermined. Then doctor Burnell conducted his 0:20:26.805 --> 0:20:30.885 autopsy in two thousand and four, fifteen years after Janey died. 0:20:32.205 --> 0:20:35.245 He also concluded that Janey died from a neck injury 0:20:35.765 --> 0:20:39.125 and had blunt forced trauma to the face. He said 0:20:39.485 --> 0:20:43.005 the manner of death was homicide. Doctor Cox was a 0:20:43.045 --> 0:20:45.845 medical examiner at the crime lab at that time, and 0:20:45.925 --> 0:20:49.525 he wrote a scathing review of doctor Burnell's findings, mostly 0:20:49.565 --> 0:20:53.165 citing the lack of evidence and documentation for doctor Burnell's conclusions. 0:20:54.725 --> 0:20:58.485 Doctor Pluss's autopsy was in two thousand and seven, eighteen 0:20:58.565 --> 0:21:03.285 years after Janey died, and after two other autopsies he 0:21:03.405 --> 0:21:06.605 left the death certificate as undetermined in both cause and 0:21:06.685 --> 0:21:09.445 manner of death, and said he saw no evidence of 0:21:09.485 --> 0:21:13.565 a spinal injury. We discussed doctor Cooke's review of doctor 0:21:13.565 --> 0:21:17.885 Burnell's autopsy in episode five. We asked doctor Grace Dukes 0:21:18.005 --> 0:21:21.685 her impressions of that autopsy. Normally, an autopsy, you know, 0:21:21.685 --> 0:21:27.885 would include the external exam, documentation of identifying Marx injuries, 0:21:28.205 --> 0:21:32.045 you know, any sort of distinctive feature. Then you know, 0:21:32.085 --> 0:21:34.485 there would be an internal examination where we examine the organs. 0:21:34.525 --> 0:21:38.805 Obviously in an embalmed, decomposing body with a bag of 0:21:38.885 --> 0:21:41.605 organs in the abdomen, you know that's going to be limited. 0:21:42.325 --> 0:21:45.285 And then you know, putting in sections for microscopic exam, 0:21:45.365 --> 0:21:48.445 which would also be relatively limited because the tissues will 0:21:48.485 --> 0:21:53.485 be decomposing, and then potentially photographs and X rays, et cetera. So, 0:21:53.765 --> 0:21:58.885 I mean, many of those tasks were performed. I think 0:21:59.365 --> 0:22:03.605 he is a bit more brief in how he documents them. 0:22:04.445 --> 0:22:08.645 It is a significantly you know, more brief report than 0:22:08.765 --> 0:22:13.965 say doctor Plus's report, which is very thorough. But the 0:22:14.045 --> 0:22:19.165 conclusion that the second autopsy came to that this was 0:22:19.205 --> 0:22:22.165 a homicide. You know, if you're going to change a 0:22:22.205 --> 0:22:25.125 manner of death to especially to a homicide where people 0:22:25.125 --> 0:22:29.245 could be prosecuted. I think it's important to do all 0:22:29.285 --> 0:22:33.485 of the documentation of those injuries that you say, you 0:22:33.525 --> 0:22:38.165 know were the lethal injuries causing the death in a homicide. 0:22:38.565 --> 0:22:41.765 And I think some of that isn't isn't present and 0:22:41.925 --> 0:22:45.645 wasn't subject to examination later. You know, doctor Plus couldn't 0:22:45.645 --> 0:22:48.645 go back and look at the photographs and look at 0:22:48.645 --> 0:22:51.245 the detail and the report necessarily and come to that 0:22:51.285 --> 0:22:55.205 same conclusion, and other pathologists couldn't either. Much of doctor 0:22:55.245 --> 0:22:59.365 Plus's autopsy and doctor Barnell's, to an extent, are dedicated 0:22:59.365 --> 0:23:03.725 to autopsy artifact, that is, observations about the changes on 0:23:03.765 --> 0:23:06.725 the body that are due to previous autos, not the 0:23:06.765 --> 0:23:10.645 original injury. And so much of the debate over Jane's 0:23:10.725 --> 0:23:14.165 cause and manner of death has come from observations of 0:23:14.205 --> 0:23:19.365 her face. Ron Wards said he saw bruising, and even 0:23:19.405 --> 0:23:23.405 doctor Plus admitted that according to ron Ward's pictures, it 0:23:23.565 --> 0:23:27.325 did look like Jane had discoloration to her face. But 0:23:27.405 --> 0:23:31.325 there is post mortem lividity. So lividity is the natural 0:23:31.485 --> 0:23:35.125 settling of the blood within the blood vessels after a 0:23:35.165 --> 0:23:38.365 person dies, so everything just sort of, you know, flows 0:23:38.405 --> 0:23:42.405 down to the dependent portions dependent to gravity, and so 0:23:42.645 --> 0:23:45.165 the blood is within those vessels, and then over a 0:23:45.205 --> 0:23:48.045 matter of hours, the blood can lice and link out 0:23:48.045 --> 0:23:51.325 of those vessels and it'll become what we call fixed, 0:23:51.765 --> 0:23:53.805 where you know, when it's just in the vessels, you 0:23:53.805 --> 0:23:55.485 can push on it and you can make a white 0:23:55.485 --> 0:23:58.805 spot on the skin. Once it becomes fixed, well you 0:23:58.805 --> 0:24:01.285 can push on it and it'll it'll stay fixed there. 0:24:02.485 --> 0:24:05.365 So that happens over a matter of hours. Doctor Do 0:24:05.685 --> 0:24:08.245 said it can be hard to tell between injuries and 0:24:08.325 --> 0:24:11.645 libidity because if a body isn't embalmed in a timely 0:24:11.685 --> 0:24:14.925 manner after death, both of these things can cause what 0:24:15.005 --> 0:24:18.565 looks like hemorrhaging under the skin. But in his autopsy, 0:24:19.045 --> 0:24:22.405 doctor Plus said there was no hemorrhaging underneath the surface 0:24:22.405 --> 0:24:25.845 of the face, so it seems that any discoloration on 0:24:25.925 --> 0:24:30.965 Jane's face happened after death. Doctor Plus's other huge finding 0:24:31.405 --> 0:24:34.045 was that doctor Malick had removed part of the spinal cord, 0:24:34.565 --> 0:24:38.405 which doctor Plus said was an unusual autopsy practice, and 0:24:38.445 --> 0:24:43.325 he concluded that there was in fact no spinal injury. 0:24:43.445 --> 0:24:47.005 Doctor Duke said that conclusion seems definitive because of the 0:24:47.085 --> 0:24:50.285 use of the CT scanner. So the CT scan is 0:24:50.765 --> 0:24:55.965 performed at some medical examiner's offices, but it's few. Uh. 0:24:56.085 --> 0:24:59.525 It's helpful because you get an image of the skeleton 0:25:00.125 --> 0:25:03.365 without having to cut it or scrape tissue off. It's 0:25:03.485 --> 0:25:04.965 just as you know, as if you went into a 0:25:04.965 --> 0:25:07.285 hospital and they were imaging you and they could see 0:25:07.325 --> 0:25:10.485 your skeleton and if there was fracture, if there was abnormality, 0:25:11.365 --> 0:25:14.485 and so to have the CT scan of the whole body, 0:25:14.725 --> 0:25:17.925 you know, and show having a radiologist examine it and 0:25:17.965 --> 0:25:21.885 show that there was not trauma there, there were not fractures, 0:25:22.605 --> 0:25:26.125 is very very helpful. Whereas you know, in the first autopsy, 0:25:26.325 --> 0:25:29.445 he was the pathologist was looking at all of these 0:25:29.485 --> 0:25:33.125 and feeling them and you know, I don't know how 0:25:33.205 --> 0:25:35.045 much of the tissue he scraped off or what he 0:25:35.085 --> 0:25:37.845 removed or what he cut, but you know, he came 0:25:37.885 --> 0:25:40.165 to the conclusion that there were fractures there, and then 0:25:40.205 --> 0:25:43.605 the CT scan was able to definitively show that that 0:25:43.725 --> 0:25:47.085 wasn't true. We also asked doctor Dukes about a couple 0:25:47.085 --> 0:25:51.405 of other theories, including the one that Janie drowned. So 0:25:51.765 --> 0:25:54.845 there's a in one of the early reviews of the autopsy, 0:25:54.885 --> 0:25:58.845 there's mention of or and in the investigative reporting there's 0:25:59.165 --> 0:26:02.045 mention of her clothing being wet and there's sand under 0:26:02.045 --> 0:26:06.845 her undergarments, And so I think that's a reason a proposal. 0:26:07.485 --> 0:26:11.605 But ultimately, you know, drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion, 0:26:12.765 --> 0:26:17.685 so it relies heavily on investigative findings, and as far 0:26:17.725 --> 0:26:21.365 as I could tell from what I looked at, investigative 0:26:21.365 --> 0:26:27.085 findings in the interviews don't support that the choking. You know, 0:26:27.285 --> 0:26:30.605 to have a food bullus stuck in your throat and 0:26:30.645 --> 0:26:33.885 you're you know, trying to inhale past it or breathe 0:26:33.885 --> 0:26:36.325 past it in your straining and you're you're increasing the 0:26:36.365 --> 0:26:39.445 pressure in your lungs, in the blood vessels of your lungs, 0:26:40.365 --> 0:26:43.405 in your airways. So you can get those little particual 0:26:43.445 --> 0:26:47.365 hemorrhages in a situation like that. But you know that 0:26:47.365 --> 0:26:52.325 that can happen. It's it's reasonable. Again, you know, nothing 0:26:52.325 --> 0:26:57.445 about the investigation suggests that she was choking. There was 0:26:57.485 --> 0:27:00.805 no food bowlus noted in her airway at the first autopsy. 0:27:01.645 --> 0:27:03.925 I mean, if it were lodged in there, you know, 0:27:04.085 --> 0:27:06.765 in ems didn't suction it out, which is a thing 0:27:06.805 --> 0:27:10.005 that happens too as they're trying to clear the airway. 0:27:10.045 --> 0:27:11.525 I don't know how much she was I don't know 0:27:11.565 --> 0:27:15.365 how much resuscitation was done on her. When Kathy, who 0:27:15.445 --> 0:27:18.445 worked at the Ambulance Service, talked with investigators in two 0:27:18.485 --> 0:27:21.925 thousand and seven, she said she didn't see anything visibly 0:27:21.965 --> 0:27:25.045 wrong with Janie's spine, and she also said she didn't 0:27:25.045 --> 0:27:28.125 see any blockage in the windpipe, which could have indicated 0:27:28.245 --> 0:27:32.125 that Jennie choked, Which leaves just one more question for 0:27:32.205 --> 0:27:36.925 doctor Duke's Could Janey have had a heart problem? Yeah, 0:27:36.965 --> 0:27:41.205 I think that has to be considered a possibility because 0:27:41.525 --> 0:27:47.005 there are basically negative findings on her. There's the finding 0:27:47.045 --> 0:27:49.325 of the larynx and I don't you know this many 0:27:49.405 --> 0:27:52.285