1 00:00:07,565 --> 00:00:15,005 Speaker 1: The School of Humans. We found a tape in Ron 2 00:00:15,045 --> 00:00:19,285 Speaker 1: Ward's boxes from two thousand and seven. In it, he's 3 00:00:19,325 --> 00:00:22,645 Speaker 1: reading a letter that his lawyer, Jerry Sallings, had received 4 00:00:22,685 --> 00:00:26,245 Speaker 1: from the Special Prosecutor Tim Williamson. If you and your 5 00:00:26,285 --> 00:00:30,325 Speaker 1: clients do not wish to state to attempt to obtain 6 00:00:30,445 --> 00:00:35,885 Speaker 1: additional forensic evidence to be used in this criminal investigation, 7 00:00:36,325 --> 00:00:40,245 Speaker 1: I suggest you buy your request for any youngty's relief. 8 00:00:40,845 --> 00:00:43,365 Speaker 1: The letter informs him that the state intends to do 9 00:00:43,445 --> 00:00:47,805 Speaker 1: another exhumation and autopsy on Jennie. Great efforts have been 10 00:00:47,845 --> 00:00:55,085 Speaker 1: taken to schedulist exhamation and autopsy. My experts cannot be 11 00:00:55,205 --> 00:01:00,205 Speaker 1: present again for several weeks, and doctor Burnell or whichever 12 00:01:00,445 --> 00:01:07,525 Speaker 1: family medical expert is present and only observed. Now, come on, now, 13 00:01:08,285 --> 00:01:12,925 Speaker 1: Ron is frustrated. He doesn't understand why Tim Williamson doesn't 14 00:01:12,965 --> 00:01:16,445 Speaker 1: trust doctor Burnell's conclusion that Jennie was hit in the 15 00:01:16,485 --> 00:01:19,885 Speaker 1: face with a blunt object, that her death was a homicide. 16 00:01:20,165 --> 00:01:24,245 Speaker 1: Doctor Burnell not just some kind of backyard warm dog. 17 00:01:24,405 --> 00:01:29,605 Speaker 1: You know, he's a high incredible pathologist. Why on earth 18 00:01:29,725 --> 00:01:35,965 Speaker 1: that he wanted to question a renowned pathologists that him 19 00:01:36,005 --> 00:01:39,285 Speaker 1: back here? I have no speculation. The Word family had 20 00:01:39,365 --> 00:01:43,485 Speaker 1: painstakingly had Janie's body exhumed and autopsied a second time. 21 00:01:44,485 --> 00:01:47,525 Speaker 1: Why did Tim Williamson need to do this again? We 22 00:01:47,645 --> 00:01:52,645 Speaker 1: have got to file an injunction. Otherwise we'd be saying 23 00:01:52,725 --> 00:01:56,405 Speaker 1: we didn't believe doctor Buranell. We go along with the state. 24 00:01:57,325 --> 00:02:00,125 Speaker 1: We didn't believe doctor Burnell. We don't want our daughter's 25 00:02:00,165 --> 00:02:03,805 Speaker 1: remains removed and affered with again. No, but we know 26 00:02:03,885 --> 00:02:09,725 Speaker 1: it's it's we can't prevent, but we can in assert. Hey, hey, look, 27 00:02:10,405 --> 00:02:13,765 Speaker 1: we don't agree with this. We agree with doctor Vernell's 28 00:02:13,805 --> 00:02:17,485 Speaker 1: find these and all of the investigation that we've done 29 00:02:17,485 --> 00:02:21,005 Speaker 1: is just born. Now what your excuse? We're not agreeing 30 00:02:21,405 --> 00:02:25,805 Speaker 1: with doctor Vernell. Three years and over ten thousand dollars later, 31 00:02:26,565 --> 00:02:30,245 Speaker 1: Tim Williamson said he did not find any conclusive evidence 32 00:02:30,485 --> 00:02:34,765 Speaker 1: that Janie's death was a homicide. In the end, he 33 00:02:34,805 --> 00:02:39,165 Speaker 1: can't determine anything, So in August of two thousand and seven, 34 00:02:39,725 --> 00:02:44,445 Speaker 1: they exhumed Janey's body one more time for a final autopsy. 35 00:02:45,845 --> 00:03:23,125 Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend and this is hell and gone. Janey's 36 00:03:23,125 --> 00:03:28,725 Speaker 1: third autopsy is a spectacle. With Mike Masterson's columns Arkansas's 37 00:03:28,765 --> 00:03:32,285 Speaker 1: attention is on the case. Everyone is waiting to see 38 00:03:32,485 --> 00:03:36,205 Speaker 1: what will happen this time. Tim Williamson finds an out 39 00:03:36,245 --> 00:03:39,885 Speaker 1: of state pathologist to perform the autopsy. He wants someone 40 00:03:39,925 --> 00:03:44,805 Speaker 1: whose credentials are impeccable, someone who is not controversial, someone 41 00:03:44,925 --> 00:03:47,605 Speaker 1: who can help him convince the Ward family and the 42 00:03:47,605 --> 00:03:50,685 Speaker 1: rest of the state that he is being completely impartial 43 00:03:51,205 --> 00:03:55,245 Speaker 1: the cause of the conflicts and the concerns of the family. 44 00:03:55,285 --> 00:03:58,845 Speaker 1: Of anyone in the state of Arkansas doing this, they 45 00:03:58,845 --> 00:04:03,285 Speaker 1: had questions that everybody's involvement completely. So we were trying 46 00:04:03,325 --> 00:04:06,565 Speaker 1: to stay as independent as possible and give them the 47 00:04:06,605 --> 00:04:11,445 Speaker 1: greatest assurance and afford them the opportunity to know that 48 00:04:11,485 --> 00:04:15,045 Speaker 1: we've done everything we possibly could do to do an independent, 49 00:04:15,405 --> 00:04:20,965 Speaker 1: totally independent, complete review. I got to looking for medical 50 00:04:21,325 --> 00:04:24,725 Speaker 1: examiners or pathologists nationally recognized so that we could bring 51 00:04:24,765 --> 00:04:28,565 Speaker 1: somebody from out of state inn to actually do this investigation. 52 00:04:28,885 --> 00:04:32,965 Speaker 1: And doctor John Plus out of Indianapolis. It was by 53 00:04:33,045 --> 00:04:37,805 Speaker 1: far and above the most appropriate choice. We've had a painstaking, 54 00:04:37,925 --> 00:04:42,005 Speaker 1: step by step process for the exhumation. The family had 55 00:04:42,005 --> 00:04:45,085 Speaker 1: a right to be president as a representative president. We 56 00:04:45,605 --> 00:04:48,125 Speaker 1: did not want anyone saying that we had in any 57 00:04:48,165 --> 00:04:53,845 Speaker 1: way interfered for a manipulated Jamie's body before this could 58 00:04:53,845 --> 00:04:57,005 Speaker 1: be done. So when we had her exumed, there was 59 00:04:57,005 --> 00:04:59,925 Speaker 1: a state police president, law enforcement president and a press 60 00:04:59,965 --> 00:05:04,485 Speaker 1: presence at the cemetery. We transported her to the state 61 00:05:04,525 --> 00:05:10,085 Speaker 1: crime Lab, and because of the family's concerns about they 62 00:05:10,125 --> 00:05:13,405 Speaker 1: were concerned that the crime lab might similar another try 63 00:05:13,405 --> 00:05:18,085 Speaker 1: to manipulate the findings or tasts, or again the body 64 00:05:18,125 --> 00:05:21,565 Speaker 1: before a chance to be examined. We placed her body 65 00:05:21,605 --> 00:05:25,765 Speaker 1: into a sealed, locked room and we sealed it controlled 66 00:05:25,805 --> 00:05:27,645 Speaker 1: access to it. E Woun put a camera in motion 67 00:05:27,765 --> 00:05:31,365 Speaker 1: sens her cameras up. I think they alleviated any concerns 68 00:05:31,685 --> 00:05:35,965 Speaker 1: that might be about any manipulation of any evidence. The 69 00:05:36,005 --> 00:05:39,485 Speaker 1: words make it clear they don't trust Tim Williamson or 70 00:05:39,565 --> 00:05:42,885 Speaker 1: the crime lab. They want to make sure that the 71 00:05:42,925 --> 00:05:47,685 Speaker 1: pathologists selected doctor John Plus will do an accurate autopsy. 72 00:05:49,005 --> 00:05:51,845 Speaker 1: They asked doctor Barnell to be present, and the autopsy 73 00:05:51,885 --> 00:05:54,525 Speaker 1: had been rescheduled so that he could attend, but at 74 00:05:54,525 --> 00:05:58,085 Speaker 1: the last minute doctor Burnell had a conflict and sent 75 00:05:58,125 --> 00:06:01,485 Speaker 1: a different pathologist to be present for the family. There 76 00:06:01,485 --> 00:06:05,045 Speaker 1: were other people supervising the autopsy as well, including an 77 00:06:05,085 --> 00:06:10,165 Speaker 1: FBI consultant from ABC and a forensic anthropologist. The first 78 00:06:10,205 --> 00:06:13,165 Speaker 1: stop was the University of Arkansas Medical Center, where the 79 00:06:13,205 --> 00:06:16,445 Speaker 1: team put Janey's body through a CT scan to see 80 00:06:16,445 --> 00:06:20,365 Speaker 1: a three D rendering of her skeleton. Then they brought 81 00:06:20,365 --> 00:06:23,485 Speaker 1: the body to the Arkansas Crime Lab where every part 82 00:06:23,525 --> 00:06:27,485 Speaker 1: of the body was dissected. Ron and Mona and their lawyer, 83 00:06:27,565 --> 00:06:31,005 Speaker 1: Jerry Sellings met with doctor Plus and with Tim Williamson 84 00:06:31,445 --> 00:06:36,725 Speaker 1: after they completed the autopsy. Ron recorded the meeting. It 85 00:06:36,765 --> 00:06:41,405 Speaker 1: begins with doctor Plus explaining his results. We went quite 86 00:06:41,445 --> 00:06:45,365 Speaker 1: a bit further than either doctor Malick or doctor Banell 87 00:06:46,605 --> 00:06:50,085 Speaker 1: by literally removing all of the skin from the body 88 00:06:50,165 --> 00:06:53,605 Speaker 1: so that we could see any evidence of hemorrhage in 89 00:06:53,645 --> 00:06:58,045 Speaker 1: the soft tissues around the bond. We had the advantage 90 00:06:58,125 --> 00:07:02,085 Speaker 1: of the three D X ray examination, so we knew 91 00:07:02,605 --> 00:07:05,325 Speaker 1: what all was intact before we really went in there 92 00:07:05,965 --> 00:07:11,245 Speaker 1: to do that. We found bruises or hemorrhages also referred 93 00:07:11,245 --> 00:07:16,285 Speaker 1: to as contusions of the right elbow of the left 94 00:07:16,325 --> 00:07:21,765 Speaker 1: back where doctor Mallick had made his incision. I also 95 00:07:21,845 --> 00:07:26,845 Speaker 1: found multiple small hemorrhages in the eppibilotis and that's where 96 00:07:27,125 --> 00:07:30,445 Speaker 1: sometimes you can get a crouton or a small piece 97 00:07:30,485 --> 00:07:33,805 Speaker 1: of bread caught back in your throat and in the 98 00:07:33,885 --> 00:07:39,125 Speaker 1: trachea ah, And in my experience, hemorrhages of that type 99 00:07:39,285 --> 00:07:43,085 Speaker 1: are seen in people who choke on things. Those are 100 00:07:43,165 --> 00:07:47,725 Speaker 1: basically my findings in the examination and my opinion that 101 00:07:47,845 --> 00:07:51,885 Speaker 1: at some point or another, just prior to her collapse, 102 00:07:52,685 --> 00:07:57,165 Speaker 1: she got something caught in her throat, couldn't breathe couldn't talk, 103 00:07:58,205 --> 00:08:03,885 Speaker 1: and as the oxygen level was reduced, she finally collapsed. 104 00:08:04,645 --> 00:08:08,125 Speaker 1: After all this time, the words get another opinion that 105 00:08:08,125 --> 00:08:11,485 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to them. No one ever described her 106 00:08:11,565 --> 00:08:17,085 Speaker 1: daughter as choking and coughing. They said she was run 107 00:08:17,125 --> 00:08:21,005 Speaker 1: on the ground and she would guess, but that was it. 108 00:08:21,125 --> 00:08:26,685 Speaker 1: I didn't ebscribe her cho choking, though, is just an opinion. Officially, 109 00:08:27,285 --> 00:08:32,045 Speaker 1: doctor Plus leaves the cause and manner of death as undetermined. 110 00:08:32,925 --> 00:08:36,445 Speaker 1: He also suggests that Janie could have had a heart arrhythmia. 111 00:08:37,645 --> 00:08:41,845 Speaker 1: After Janie's first and second autopsies, her organs were put 112 00:08:41,965 --> 00:08:45,725 Speaker 1: in a bag inside her abdomen, but doctor Plus couldn't 113 00:08:45,765 --> 00:08:50,525 Speaker 1: make an official diagnosis because Janie's heart was missing. And 114 00:08:50,645 --> 00:08:55,885 Speaker 1: you know what happened to the arm someone probably a 115 00:08:55,965 --> 00:09:02,005 Speaker 1: h person. An envoment must have hand those in those 116 00:09:02,725 --> 00:09:05,165 Speaker 1: That's the only reason I can think of why they 117 00:09:05,165 --> 00:09:08,605 Speaker 1: wouldn't be there. Is that normal for a heart to 118 00:09:08,645 --> 00:09:12,245 Speaker 1: be missing when you have the other organs. It's not normal, 119 00:09:12,685 --> 00:09:15,525 Speaker 1: but it happens. I've seen it had a before. Doctor 120 00:09:15,605 --> 00:09:20,965 Speaker 1: Plas also completely disagrees with doctor Manew's most significant findings. 121 00:09:21,685 --> 00:09:25,725 Speaker 1: He says he sees absolutely no evidence of his spinal injury. 122 00:09:25,965 --> 00:09:29,085 Speaker 1: Ron is shocked and pulls out the photos that doctor 123 00:09:29,125 --> 00:09:35,685 Speaker 1: Malik said to him. Photograph sent to doctor Malik himself 124 00:09:36,885 --> 00:09:41,245 Speaker 1: that shows the voter ragmen cut in a levelment deck demand. 125 00:09:41,965 --> 00:09:47,565 Speaker 1: It shows the spinal chord exposed. Did you put jagging torn? 126 00:09:47,645 --> 00:09:52,845 Speaker 1: Did you say that? All? Yes? Okay? And that was 127 00:09:52,925 --> 00:09:56,845 Speaker 1: all done by doctor Malik and his examination of an X. 128 00:09:58,085 --> 00:10:03,285 Speaker 1: There's no evidence of any hemorrhay. I know this looks red, 129 00:10:04,525 --> 00:10:07,805 Speaker 1: and this looked pretty bad when you look at it, 130 00:10:07,845 --> 00:10:11,565 Speaker 1: but there's no hemorrhage there that you would expect to 131 00:10:11,605 --> 00:10:15,645 Speaker 1: see if it were a blunt force injury of any kind. 132 00:10:15,805 --> 00:10:20,005 Speaker 1: And what he made of thought final could conflict. That 133 00:10:20,165 --> 00:10:24,725 Speaker 1: was part of his examination of the body. If not 134 00:10:25,525 --> 00:10:28,765 Speaker 1: anything that was done prior to the autopsy. It's all 135 00:10:28,845 --> 00:10:32,925 Speaker 1: modifications that he has made in his examination on the body. 136 00:10:33,965 --> 00:10:37,285 Speaker 1: Doctor Plus also says he didn't see any evidence of 137 00:10:37,325 --> 00:10:41,325 Speaker 1: abrasions or trauma on Janie's face. When pressed by the 138 00:10:41,365 --> 00:10:44,805 Speaker 1: ward's lawyer, he admits he didn't take any samples from 139 00:10:44,805 --> 00:10:48,405 Speaker 1: the face to look out microscopically. Doctor Plus says it's 140 00:10:48,405 --> 00:10:51,125 Speaker 1: because it wouldn't have made any difference because he didn't 141 00:10:51,125 --> 00:10:54,125 Speaker 1: see any hemorrhaging. Why didn't you tell the samples because 142 00:10:54,125 --> 00:11:00,405 Speaker 1: there was no hemorrhy in associatedation with those areas, kailed 143 00:11:00,885 --> 00:11:04,285 Speaker 1: that there was no underlying hemorrhage, so there was no 144 00:11:04,365 --> 00:11:07,685 Speaker 1: reason to take sections. And again, if for no other 145 00:11:07,725 --> 00:11:12,085 Speaker 1: reason than to discuss the findings that doctor Burnell has, well, 146 00:11:12,285 --> 00:11:14,365 Speaker 1: that would be true, but I don't think it really 147 00:11:14,365 --> 00:11:18,805 Speaker 1: would have made any difference. You understanding interesting? Ron Ward 148 00:11:18,885 --> 00:11:22,645 Speaker 1: again pulls out the photographs that doctor Mallick had given him. 149 00:11:23,325 --> 00:11:26,085 Speaker 1: Ron says, it looks like there's bruising on Janie's face 150 00:11:26,525 --> 00:11:29,245 Speaker 1: and a cut across her nose and blood in her mouth. 151 00:11:30,605 --> 00:11:35,005 Speaker 1: And doctor Plus says this, yeah, and you did not 152 00:11:35,085 --> 00:11:38,045 Speaker 1: see this a braid in the with her nose, And 153 00:11:39,125 --> 00:11:43,125 Speaker 1: I think pecially those blood and there, all right, that's 154 00:11:43,125 --> 00:11:45,045 Speaker 1: what it looks like. Again, I would agree with you. 155 00:11:45,885 --> 00:11:48,365 Speaker 1: And I don't know what this Isn't a little bit 156 00:11:48,405 --> 00:11:51,685 Speaker 1: of blooding are on top of her nose? That's well, 157 00:11:52,325 --> 00:11:55,485 Speaker 1: I don't know that either. You do, Yes, I do 158 00:11:55,565 --> 00:11:58,685 Speaker 1: you know? I saw my daughter. It wasn't no blood 159 00:11:58,765 --> 00:12:04,645 Speaker 1: up here. This meeting gets pretty heated. The words keep 160 00:12:04,685 --> 00:12:07,365 Speaker 1: going back to the photographs they got from doctor Mallet 161 00:12:07,645 --> 00:12:10,405 Speaker 1: and the x rays that they insist were different from 162 00:12:10,405 --> 00:12:12,645 Speaker 1: the ones they saw at the crime lab. And I 163 00:12:12,685 --> 00:12:14,645 Speaker 1: don't know when, and I don't know who was involved, 164 00:12:15,685 --> 00:12:18,285 Speaker 1: but I think sometimes or none of you've gotten the 165 00:12:18,325 --> 00:12:23,085 Speaker 1: wrong idea about what these x rays are. And it 166 00:12:23,125 --> 00:12:27,245 Speaker 1: may be just a misunderstanding. Uh. And I don't know 167 00:12:27,285 --> 00:12:31,005 Speaker 1: who is misunderstanding, but it's hard for me to believe, 168 00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:38,005 Speaker 1: having seen her body and examined her skeleton personally removed 169 00:12:38,045 --> 00:12:42,205 Speaker 1: all the soft tissue, what I see is what what 170 00:12:42,285 --> 00:12:47,045 Speaker 1: I saw, is what these photographs show, and nothing else. 171 00:12:48,165 --> 00:12:52,245 Speaker 1: And there is no there is no injury. I mean, 172 00:12:52,285 --> 00:12:56,485 Speaker 1: we you will accept the fact that I did examine 173 00:12:56,485 --> 00:13:01,485 Speaker 1: her body, is that right? Yes? We did a thought 174 00:13:01,565 --> 00:13:08,845 Speaker 1: feeling about sayin circumstances, right, this is Mona talking. She 175 00:13:08,965 --> 00:13:13,125 Speaker 1: tells Doctor Plas about all the suspicious circumstances around Janie's death, 176 00:13:13,965 --> 00:13:17,725 Speaker 1: but Doctor Plus says the forensic evidence doesn't match what 177 00:13:17,805 --> 00:13:20,605 Speaker 1: she's telling him. People tell me all these things that 178 00:13:20,765 --> 00:13:23,285 Speaker 1: you've just told me. I mean, I'm not ignorant of 179 00:13:23,325 --> 00:13:26,965 Speaker 1: any of these things. People have made statements about this, 180 00:13:27,685 --> 00:13:33,205 Speaker 1: mostly coming from you, Law. But when I look at 181 00:13:33,245 --> 00:13:37,205 Speaker 1: a body, I have to develop my opinions from the 182 00:13:37,245 --> 00:13:42,645 Speaker 1: body as welf, not from what people may feel are 183 00:13:42,685 --> 00:13:47,605 Speaker 1: the circumstances. But I have to look at the body 184 00:13:48,125 --> 00:13:52,485 Speaker 1: and scientifically to make an opinion about what went on. 185 00:13:54,245 --> 00:14:00,165 Speaker 1: And of no injury. There's just not any injury here 186 00:14:00,885 --> 00:14:08,885 Speaker 1: that would have caused your daughter's death. After the meeting 187 00:14:08,885 --> 00:14:12,165 Speaker 1: with Tim Williamson and Doctor Plus, there's a press conference. 188 00:14:13,045 --> 00:14:17,045 Speaker 1: It's packed with news stations from across the state. As 189 00:14:17,125 --> 00:14:21,765 Speaker 1: Ron and Mona leave the press conference, they're surrounded by reporters. 190 00:14:23,125 --> 00:14:25,605 Speaker 1: Ron and Mona are trying to hurry through the interviews 191 00:14:26,045 --> 00:14:28,885 Speaker 1: because they know that Jane's body is being driven away 192 00:14:29,245 --> 00:14:32,125 Speaker 1: back to the cemetery to get reburied. Well, we thought 193 00:14:32,165 --> 00:14:37,165 Speaker 1: they were waiting for us, actually, because we were supposed 194 00:14:37,205 --> 00:14:41,485 Speaker 1: to be there when they reburied her, because the first 195 00:14:41,525 --> 00:14:46,445 Speaker 1: time we got to pray, you know, like a funeral, 196 00:14:47,085 --> 00:14:51,845 Speaker 1: you know, like it was another funeral, and like when 197 00:14:51,885 --> 00:14:55,325 Speaker 1: we had her exhumed, we got to do that. It's 198 00:14:55,405 --> 00:14:59,085 Speaker 1: just so callous, you know, to just do that. It 199 00:14:59,165 --> 00:15:03,485 Speaker 1: meant something. There'd been nothing to them. By the time 200 00:15:03,525 --> 00:15:07,125 Speaker 1: they got to the cemetery, Janie was buried and the 201 00:15:07,205 --> 00:15:10,765 Speaker 1: crew was driving away. They were supposed to have waited 202 00:15:10,765 --> 00:15:13,125 Speaker 1: for the wards so that they could pray as their 203 00:15:13,205 --> 00:15:15,805 Speaker 1: daughter was lowered into the ground for the third time 204 00:15:17,325 --> 00:15:21,925 Speaker 1: once again. Journalist Mike Masterson was outraged at the treatment 205 00:15:21,965 --> 00:15:25,485 Speaker 1: of the Wards and thought the third autopsy was horrific 206 00:15:25,685 --> 00:15:29,325 Speaker 1: and supposedly they just absolutely skinned her. They there's nothing 207 00:15:29,405 --> 00:15:31,805 Speaker 1: left if they wanted to do another autopsy, and that 208 00:15:31,925 --> 00:15:35,085 Speaker 1: was not necessary, but they did it so they made 209 00:15:35,085 --> 00:15:38,325 Speaker 1: sure there wasn't going to be a fourth exhamation. He 210 00:15:38,445 --> 00:15:42,045 Speaker 1: still thinks it's totally illogical that doctor Malick would have 211 00:15:42,085 --> 00:15:45,005 Speaker 1: cut and removed part of Janie's spine instead of it 212 00:15:45,085 --> 00:15:47,845 Speaker 1: being torn from an injury. See Whybret, you reach out 213 00:15:48,245 --> 00:15:52,085 Speaker 1: and tear her spinal cord in the canal. So no, 214 00:15:52,125 --> 00:15:54,845 Speaker 1: it's just all a bunch of words. It's dissemblings. What 215 00:15:54,925 --> 00:15:57,285 Speaker 1: it is, just words to try to fill air and 216 00:15:57,365 --> 00:16:01,685 Speaker 1: try to confuse people. I mean, it didn't confuse me 217 00:16:01,805 --> 00:16:05,125 Speaker 1: at all, and it didn't confuse most of Arkansas, I 218 00:16:05,125 --> 00:16:09,405 Speaker 1: mean around the state today, all these years later, and 219 00:16:11,085 --> 00:16:14,445 Speaker 1: one or two of the questions I'm ask invariably deal 220 00:16:14,485 --> 00:16:16,885 Speaker 1: with Jenny Ward's case. You know, are they ever going 221 00:16:16,965 --> 00:16:19,725 Speaker 1: to do anything with the Jenny Ward case? What about 222 00:16:19,805 --> 00:16:24,845 Speaker 1: Jenny Ward? So it really touched the nerve this whole mess. 223 00:16:27,285 --> 00:16:40,805 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Doctor Plus's autopsy didn't provide definitive 224 00:16:40,805 --> 00:16:45,365 Speaker 1: answers to how Janie died. He said she could have choked, 225 00:16:45,645 --> 00:16:48,485 Speaker 1: she could have had a heart problem, and doctor Plus 226 00:16:48,565 --> 00:16:51,165 Speaker 1: seemed pretty convinced that there was no sign of his 227 00:16:51,245 --> 00:16:54,205 Speaker 1: final injury or a blunt forced trauma to the face. 228 00:16:55,005 --> 00:16:59,805 Speaker 1: According to the forensic evidence provided by this autopsy, Jane 229 00:16:59,925 --> 00:17:03,005 Speaker 1: didn't die from falling off the porch. She wasn't hitting 230 00:17:03,045 --> 00:17:06,325 Speaker 1: the face with a baseball bat, didn't run into the 231 00:17:06,325 --> 00:17:08,805 Speaker 1: post and then fall off the porch, as Steve Ward 232 00:17:08,805 --> 00:17:12,725 Speaker 1: had suggested, and she didn't sustain a spinal injury in 233 00:17:12,765 --> 00:17:14,845 Speaker 1: the truck on the bumpy roads. Back to the bank 234 00:17:14,885 --> 00:17:19,445 Speaker 1: parking lot. So with this third autopsy, there is very 235 00:17:19,485 --> 00:17:23,205 Speaker 1: little pointing to homicide in the forensic evidence, but at 236 00:17:23,205 --> 00:17:27,445 Speaker 1: the same time, nothing is definitive about it. Her cause 237 00:17:27,525 --> 00:17:32,565 Speaker 1: and manner of death remain undetermined. This seems incredible to 238 00:17:32,605 --> 00:17:36,805 Speaker 1: have three different autopsies with three completely different results, and 239 00:17:36,845 --> 00:17:39,565 Speaker 1: we needed to know more about how this could be possible. 240 00:17:40,805 --> 00:17:44,845 Speaker 1: We found a forensic pathologist through the College of American Pathologists. 241 00:17:45,725 --> 00:17:48,765 Speaker 1: Her name is Gray Stuke's and she's a board certified 242 00:17:48,765 --> 00:17:53,565 Speaker 1: pathologist and a member of the College's Forensic Pathology Committee. 243 00:17:53,645 --> 00:17:56,365 Speaker 1: We asked her to review the three autopsies. Our job 244 00:17:56,405 --> 00:18:00,085 Speaker 1: as medical examiners is to determine a cause of death 245 00:18:00,405 --> 00:18:02,445 Speaker 1: and usually the manner of death, but that can vary 246 00:18:02,485 --> 00:18:04,165 Speaker 1: by a law depending on the state that you're in. 247 00:18:04,245 --> 00:18:08,005 Speaker 1: Sometimes the coroner makes it distinction. At our autopsy, we 248 00:18:08,925 --> 00:18:13,365 Speaker 1: can see what we see grossly and microscopically, and then 249 00:18:13,685 --> 00:18:17,205 Speaker 1: the cause of death ultimately is our opinion. So in 250 00:18:17,245 --> 00:18:21,685 Speaker 1: these three cases, people looked at the body, drew their 251 00:18:21,725 --> 00:18:25,525 Speaker 1: own conclusions, and then formed their own opinions. I think 252 00:18:25,645 --> 00:18:29,525 Speaker 1: some of the variation in the opinions comes from the 253 00:18:29,605 --> 00:18:33,165 Speaker 1: fact that the body was in different states each time. 254 00:18:33,485 --> 00:18:37,645 Speaker 1: You know, there had been dissections performed on it two 255 00:18:37,645 --> 00:18:40,725 Speaker 1: different times by the time the third autopsy happened. So 256 00:18:40,765 --> 00:18:46,565 Speaker 1: there's substantial autopsy artifact. There's decomposition artifact. You know, there's 257 00:18:46,645 --> 00:18:50,685 Speaker 1: embalming artifact. There are all these factors that could alter 258 00:18:50,965 --> 00:18:53,845 Speaker 1: potentially the way that things look. And then even it 259 00:18:54,885 --> 00:18:58,565 Speaker 1: you know, someone doing their you know, best job at 260 00:18:58,605 --> 00:19:02,685 Speaker 1: an autopsy, there can still be variability in the opinion 261 00:19:02,765 --> 00:19:07,845 Speaker 1: that people draw from those findings. To review the complicated 262 00:19:07,965 --> 00:19:12,565 Speaker 1: history of Janey's autopsies, let's go back to nineteen eighty nine. 263 00:19:13,005 --> 00:19:18,205 Speaker 1: Two days after Jane died, doctor Fowmi Mallick conducted an autopsy. 264 00:19:18,245 --> 00:19:20,685 Speaker 1: He said that the cause of death was a hyper 265 00:19:20,685 --> 00:19:24,685 Speaker 1: extension neck injury from falling off the porch. The manner 266 00:19:24,725 --> 00:19:29,765 Speaker 1: of death was undetermined. Doctor Malick was a controversial figure 267 00:19:29,805 --> 00:19:34,685 Speaker 1: in Arkansas. In nineteen ninety one, he quit amid allegations 268 00:19:34,725 --> 00:19:38,925 Speaker 1: that he bought several autopsies. In nineteen ninety two, two 269 00:19:39,045 --> 00:19:43,205 Speaker 1: out of state pathologists reviewed doctor Malick's work. They didn't 270 00:19:43,245 --> 00:19:46,205 Speaker 1: perform their own autopsy, but they did have access to 271 00:19:46,245 --> 00:19:49,445 Speaker 1: the report, the photos, and the x rays, the ones 272 00:19:49,445 --> 00:19:51,685 Speaker 1: where the side view had a white blob that blocked 273 00:19:51,685 --> 00:19:54,925 Speaker 1: most of Jane's neck. These are also the X rays 274 00:19:54,965 --> 00:19:57,365 Speaker 1: that the words said were different from the ones they 275 00:19:57,365 --> 00:20:00,925 Speaker 1: saw at the crime lab. At the crime lab, they 276 00:20:00,965 --> 00:20:03,965 Speaker 1: insisted that they saw X rays where it was clear 277 00:20:04,085 --> 00:20:07,005 Speaker 1: that Janey had a broken neck, but the pathologists in 278 00:20:07,085 --> 00:20:10,085 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two said they were not convinced that Janey 279 00:20:10,125 --> 00:20:14,005 Speaker 1: had his final injury. They also said the X rays 280 00:20:14,085 --> 00:20:18,205 Speaker 1: looked like those of a male skull. They changed Janey's 281 00:20:18,205 --> 00:20:21,365 Speaker 1: death certificate, leaving both the cause of death and the 282 00:20:21,405 --> 00:20:26,765 Speaker 1: manner of death as undetermined. Then doctor Burnell conducted his 283 00:20:26,805 --> 00:20:30,885 Speaker 1: autopsy in two thousand and four, fifteen years after Janey died. 284 00:20:32,205 --> 00:20:35,245 Speaker 1: He also concluded that Janey died from a neck injury 285 00:20:35,765 --> 00:20:39,125 Speaker 1: and had blunt forced trauma to the face. He said 286 00:20:39,485 --> 00:20:43,005 Speaker 1: the manner of death was homicide. Doctor Cox was a 287 00:20:43,045 --> 00:20:45,845 Speaker 1: medical examiner at the crime lab at that time, and 288 00:20:45,925 --> 00:20:49,525 Speaker 1: he wrote a scathing review of doctor Burnell's findings, mostly 289 00:20:49,565 --> 00:20:53,165 Speaker 1: citing the lack of evidence and documentation for doctor Burnell's conclusions. 290 00:20:54,725 --> 00:20:58,485 Speaker 1: Doctor Pluss's autopsy was in two thousand and seven, eighteen 291 00:20:58,565 --> 00:21:03,285 Speaker 1: years after Janey died, and after two other autopsies he 292 00:21:03,405 --> 00:21:06,605 Speaker 1: left the death certificate as undetermined in both cause and 293 00:21:06,685 --> 00:21:09,445 Speaker 1: manner of death, and said he saw no evidence of 294 00:21:09,485 --> 00:21:13,565 Speaker 1: a spinal injury. We discussed doctor Cooke's review of doctor 295 00:21:13,565 --> 00:21:17,885 Speaker 1: Burnell's autopsy in episode five. We asked doctor Grace Dukes 296 00:21:18,005 --> 00:21:21,685 Speaker 1: her impressions of that autopsy. Normally, an autopsy, you know, 297 00:21:21,685 --> 00:21:27,885 Speaker 1: would include the external exam, documentation of identifying Marx injuries, 298 00:21:28,205 --> 00:21:32,045 Speaker 1: you know, any sort of distinctive feature. Then you know, 299 00:21:32,085 --> 00:21:34,485 Speaker 1: there would be an internal examination where we examine the organs. 300 00:21:34,525 --> 00:21:38,805 Speaker 1: Obviously in an embalmed, decomposing body with a bag of 301 00:21:38,885 --> 00:21:41,605 Speaker 1: organs in the abdomen, you know that's going to be limited. 302 00:21:42,325 --> 00:21:45,285 Speaker 1: And then you know, putting in sections for microscopic exam, 303 00:21:45,365 --> 00:21:48,445 Speaker 1: which would also be relatively limited because the tissues will 304 00:21:48,485 --> 00:21:53,485 Speaker 1: be decomposing, and then potentially photographs and X rays, et cetera. So, 305 00:21:53,765 --> 00:21:58,885 Speaker 1: I mean, many of those tasks were performed. I think 306 00:21:59,365 --> 00:22:03,605 Speaker 1: he is a bit more brief in how he documents them. 307 00:22:04,445 --> 00:22:08,645 Speaker 1: It is a significantly you know, more brief report than 308 00:22:08,765 --> 00:22:13,965 Speaker 1: say doctor Plus's report, which is very thorough. But the 309 00:22:14,045 --> 00:22:19,165 Speaker 1: conclusion that the second autopsy came to that this was 310 00:22:19,205 --> 00:22:22,165 Speaker 1: a homicide. You know, if you're going to change a 311 00:22:22,205 --> 00:22:25,125 Speaker 1: manner of death to especially to a homicide where people 312 00:22:25,125 --> 00:22:29,245 Speaker 1: could be prosecuted. I think it's important to do all 313 00:22:29,285 --> 00:22:33,485 Speaker 1: of the documentation of those injuries that you say, you 314 00:22:33,525 --> 00:22:38,165 Speaker 1: know were the lethal injuries causing the death in a homicide. 315 00:22:38,565 --> 00:22:41,765 Speaker 1: And I think some of that isn't isn't present and 316 00:22:41,925 --> 00:22:45,645 Speaker 1: wasn't subject to examination later. You know, doctor Plus couldn't 317 00:22:45,645 --> 00:22:48,645 Speaker 1: go back and look at the photographs and look at 318 00:22:48,645 --> 00:22:51,245 Speaker 1: the detail and the report necessarily and come to that 319 00:22:51,285 --> 00:22:55,205 Speaker 1: same conclusion, and other pathologists couldn't either. Much of doctor 320 00:22:55,245 --> 00:22:59,365 Speaker 1: Plus's autopsy and doctor Barnell's, to an extent, are dedicated 321 00:22:59,365 --> 00:23:03,725 Speaker 1: to autopsy artifact, that is, observations about the changes on 322 00:23:03,765 --> 00:23:06,725 Speaker 1: the body that are due to previous autos, not the 323 00:23:06,765 --> 00:23:10,645 Speaker 1: original injury. And so much of the debate over Jane's 324 00:23:10,725 --> 00:23:14,165 Speaker 1: cause and manner of death has come from observations of 325 00:23:14,205 --> 00:23:19,365 Speaker 1: her face. Ron Wards said he saw bruising, and even 326 00:23:19,405 --> 00:23:23,405 Speaker 1: doctor Plus admitted that according to ron Ward's pictures, it 327 00:23:23,565 --> 00:23:27,325 Speaker 1: did look like Jane had discoloration to her face. But 328 00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:31,325 Speaker 1: there is post mortem lividity. So lividity is the natural 329 00:23:31,485 --> 00:23:35,125 Speaker 1: settling of the blood within the blood vessels after a 330 00:23:35,165 --> 00:23:38,365 Speaker 1: person dies, so everything just sort of, you know, flows 331 00:23:38,405 --> 00:23:42,405 Speaker 1: down to the dependent portions dependent to gravity, and so 332 00:23:42,645 --> 00:23:45,165 Speaker 1: the blood is within those vessels, and then over a 333 00:23:45,205 --> 00:23:48,045 Speaker 1: matter of hours, the blood can lice and link out 334 00:23:48,045 --> 00:23:51,325 Speaker 1: of those vessels and it'll become what we call fixed, 335 00:23:51,765 --> 00:23:53,805 Speaker 1: where you know, when it's just in the vessels, you 336 00:23:53,805 --> 00:23:55,485 Speaker 1: can push on it and you can make a white 337 00:23:55,485 --> 00:23:58,805 Speaker 1: spot on the skin. Once it becomes fixed, well you 338 00:23:58,805 --> 00:24:01,285 Speaker 1: can push on it and it'll it'll stay fixed there. 339 00:24:02,485 --> 00:24:05,365 Speaker 1: So that happens over a matter of hours. Doctor Do 340 00:24:05,685 --> 00:24:08,245 Speaker 1: said it can be hard to tell between injuries and 341 00:24:08,325 --> 00:24:11,645 Speaker 1: libidity because if a body isn't embalmed in a timely 342 00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:14,925 Speaker 1: manner after death, both of these things can cause what 343 00:24:15,005 --> 00:24:18,565 Speaker 1: looks like hemorrhaging under the skin. But in his autopsy, 344 00:24:19,045 --> 00:24:22,405 Speaker 1: doctor Plus said there was no hemorrhaging underneath the surface 345 00:24:22,405 --> 00:24:25,845 Speaker 1: of the face, so it seems that any discoloration on 346 00:24:25,925 --> 00:24:30,965 Speaker 1: Jane's face happened after death. Doctor Plus's other huge finding 347 00:24:31,405 --> 00:24:34,045 Speaker 1: was that doctor Malick had removed part of the spinal cord, 348 00:24:34,565 --> 00:24:38,405 Speaker 1: which doctor Plus said was an unusual autopsy practice, and 349 00:24:38,445 --> 00:24:43,325 Speaker 1: he concluded that there was in fact no spinal injury. 350 00:24:43,445 --> 00:24:47,005 Speaker 1: Doctor Duke said that conclusion seems definitive because of the 351 00:24:47,085 --> 00:24:50,285 Speaker 1: use of the CT scanner. So the CT scan is 352 00:24:50,765 --> 00:24:55,965 Speaker 1: performed at some medical examiner's offices, but it's few. Uh. 353 00:24:56,085 --> 00:24:59,525 Speaker 1: It's helpful because you get an image of the skeleton 354 00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:03,365 Speaker 1: without having to cut it or scrape tissue off. It's 355 00:25:03,485 --> 00:25:04,965 Speaker 1: just as you know, as if you went into a 356 00:25:04,965 --> 00:25:07,285 Speaker 1: hospital and they were imaging you and they could see 357 00:25:07,325 --> 00:25:10,485 Speaker 1: your skeleton and if there was fracture, if there was abnormality, 358 00:25:11,365 --> 00:25:14,485 Speaker 1: and so to have the CT scan of the whole body, 359 00:25:14,725 --> 00:25:17,925 Speaker 1: you know, and show having a radiologist examine it and 360 00:25:17,965 --> 00:25:21,885 Speaker 1: show that there was not trauma there, there were not fractures, 361 00:25:22,605 --> 00:25:26,125 Speaker 1: is very very helpful. Whereas you know, in the first autopsy, 362 00:25:26,325 --> 00:25:29,445 Speaker 1: he was the pathologist was looking at all of these 363 00:25:29,485 --> 00:25:33,125 Speaker 1: and feeling them and you know, I don't know how 364 00:25:33,205 --> 00:25:35,045 Speaker 1: much of the tissue he scraped off or what he 365 00:25:35,085 --> 00:25:37,845 Speaker 1: removed or what he cut, but you know, he came 366 00:25:37,885 --> 00:25:40,165 Speaker 1: to the conclusion that there were fractures there, and then 367 00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:43,605 Speaker 1: the CT scan was able to definitively show that that 368 00:25:43,725 --> 00:25:47,085 Speaker 1: wasn't true. We also asked doctor Dukes about a couple 369 00:25:47,085 --> 00:25:51,405 Speaker 1: of other theories, including the one that Janie drowned. So 370 00:25:51,765 --> 00:25:54,845 Speaker 1: there's a in one of the early reviews of the autopsy, 371 00:25:54,885 --> 00:25:58,845 Speaker 1: there's mention of or and in the investigative reporting there's 372 00:25:59,165 --> 00:26:02,045 Speaker 1: mention of her clothing being wet and there's sand under 373 00:26:02,045 --> 00:26:06,845 Speaker 1: her undergarments, And so I think that's a reason a proposal. 374 00:26:07,485 --> 00:26:11,605 Speaker 1: But ultimately, you know, drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion, 375 00:26:12,765 --> 00:26:17,685 Speaker 1: so it relies heavily on investigative findings, and as far 376 00:26:17,725 --> 00:26:21,365 Speaker 1: as I could tell from what I looked at, investigative 377 00:26:21,365 --> 00:26:27,085 Speaker 1: findings in the interviews don't support that the choking. You know, 378 00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:30,605 Speaker 1: to have a food bullus stuck in your throat and 379 00:26:30,645 --> 00:26:33,885 Speaker 1: you're you know, trying to inhale past it or breathe 380 00:26:33,885 --> 00:26:36,325 Speaker 1: past it in your straining and you're you're increasing the 381 00:26:36,365 --> 00:26:39,445 Speaker 1: pressure in your lungs, in the blood vessels of your lungs, 382 00:26:40,365 --> 00:26:43,405 Speaker 1: in your airways. So you can get those little particual 383 00:26:43,445 --> 00:26:47,365 Speaker 1: hemorrhages in a situation like that. But you know that 384 00:26:47,365 --> 00:26:52,325 Speaker 1: that can happen. It's it's reasonable. Again, you know, nothing 385 00:26:52,325 --> 00:26:57,445 Speaker 1: about the investigation suggests that she was choking. There was 386 00:26:57,485 --> 00:27:00,805 Speaker 1: no food bowlus noted in her airway at the first autopsy. 387 00:27:01,645 --> 00:27:03,925 Speaker 1: I mean, if it were lodged in there, you know, 388 00:27:04,085 --> 00:27:06,765 Speaker 1: in ems didn't suction it out, which is a thing 389 00:27:06,805 --> 00:27:10,005 Speaker 1: that happens too as they're trying to clear the airway. 390 00:27:10,045 --> 00:27:11,525 Speaker 1: I don't know how much she was I don't know 391 00:27:11,565 --> 00:27:15,365 Speaker 1: how much resuscitation was done on her. When Kathy, who 392 00:27:15,445 --> 00:27:18,445 Speaker 1: worked at the Ambulance Service, talked with investigators in two 393 00:27:18,485 --> 00:27:21,925 Speaker 1: thousand and seven, she said she didn't see anything visibly 394 00:27:21,965 --> 00:27:25,045 Speaker 1: wrong with Janie's spine, and she also said she didn't 395 00:27:25,045 --> 00:27:28,125 Speaker 1: see any blockage in the windpipe, which could have indicated 396 00:27:28,245 --> 00:27:32,125 Speaker 1: that Jennie choked, Which leaves just one more question for 397 00:27:32,205 --> 00:27:36,925 Speaker 1: doctor Duke's Could Janey have had a heart problem? Yeah, 398 00:27:36,965 --> 00:27:41,205 Speaker 1: I think that has to be considered a possibility because 399 00:27:41,525 --> 00:27:47,005 Speaker 1: there are basically negative findings on her. There's the finding 400 00:27:47,045 --> 00:27:49,325 Speaker 1: of the larynx and I don't you know this many 401 00:27:49,405 --> 00:27:52,285 Speaker 1: years later. I don't know if there's something else that 402 00:27:52,325 --> 00:27:55,165 Speaker 1: could cause that or not. But so they're the petiqui 403 00:27:55,685 --> 00:27:58,565 Speaker 1: and then there's the history of the wet clothing in 404 00:27:58,605 --> 00:28:02,925 Speaker 1: the sand, and so there are other possibilities. There's not 405 00:28:03,485 --> 00:28:07,125 Speaker 1: definite proof of any of those scenario. But in terms 406 00:28:07,165 --> 00:28:11,765 Speaker 1: of a cardiac arrhythmia, anytime you have a death, especially 407 00:28:11,765 --> 00:28:16,525 Speaker 1: in a young healthy person with no findings, you have 408 00:28:16,605 --> 00:28:20,125 Speaker 1: to consider that a possibility, just some natural disease process 409 00:28:20,165 --> 00:28:24,925 Speaker 1: where she suddenly, you know, collapsed. Like the ward's lawyer, 410 00:28:25,005 --> 00:28:29,445 Speaker 1: Jerry Sallings said about the investigative evidence, there's really nothing 411 00:28:29,485 --> 00:28:33,165 Speaker 1: more that can be done in the forensic field, and 412 00:28:33,205 --> 00:28:36,445 Speaker 1: that's because of a series of errors that built up 413 00:28:36,645 --> 00:28:40,205 Speaker 1: over time. It started with doctor Mallet, who removed part 414 00:28:40,205 --> 00:28:44,165 Speaker 1: of the spinal cord with no explanation. Jane's fingernails were 415 00:28:44,205 --> 00:28:49,525 Speaker 1: never swabbed, the X rays were either poorly taken or lost. Also, 416 00:28:49,965 --> 00:28:53,845 Speaker 1: doctor Mallet mislabeled his cause of death. He said it 417 00:28:53,885 --> 00:28:57,245 Speaker 1: was a hyper extension injury, but based on his theory 418 00:28:57,285 --> 00:29:01,245 Speaker 1: of how she died falling back in her head snapping forward, 419 00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:06,125 Speaker 1: it's actually a hyperflection injury. Doctor Bonnell's lack of documentation 420 00:29:06,485 --> 00:29:10,605 Speaker 1: made it impossible to understand his findings. He made claims 421 00:29:10,645 --> 00:29:14,405 Speaker 1: that were not backed up by the evidence. His descriptions 422 00:29:14,405 --> 00:29:17,725 Speaker 1: of the injuries were brief, and by the time doctor 423 00:29:17,765 --> 00:29:24,925 Speaker 1: Pluss did his autopsy, Jane's body had significant autopsy artifact. Still, 424 00:29:25,605 --> 00:29:29,285 Speaker 1: because of the CT scan, it seems pretty convincing that 425 00:29:29,325 --> 00:29:32,805 Speaker 1: she didn't have a spinal injury. We'll be right back. 426 00:29:45,885 --> 00:29:49,605 Speaker 1: The third autopsy concludes that there was no injury to 427 00:29:49,685 --> 00:29:53,605 Speaker 1: Janie's spine, but we wanted to go back one more 428 00:29:53,685 --> 00:29:56,885 Speaker 1: time and take another look at the spinal cord because 429 00:29:56,925 --> 00:29:59,725 Speaker 1: that has been the focus of the investigation into Janie's death, 430 00:30:00,405 --> 00:30:03,525 Speaker 1: and with no spinal injury, most of the theories about 431 00:30:03,525 --> 00:30:07,885 Speaker 1: how Janie died don't make any sense. Even doctor Plus 432 00:30:07,885 --> 00:30:10,805 Speaker 1: agreed it is odd that doctor Malick would have removed 433 00:30:10,845 --> 00:30:14,005 Speaker 1: part of the spinal cord in that first autopsy. That 434 00:30:14,165 --> 00:30:17,005 Speaker 1: is not typical, and because that part of the spinal 435 00:30:17,045 --> 00:30:21,125 Speaker 1: cord was removed, neither doctor Burnell nor doctor Plus could 436 00:30:21,165 --> 00:30:23,645 Speaker 1: actually see the part of the spinal cord that would 437 00:30:23,685 --> 00:30:27,725 Speaker 1: have been injured. Unlike the cord, the vertebrae were intact 438 00:30:28,525 --> 00:30:31,565 Speaker 1: and the CT scan in the third autopsy did not 439 00:30:31,685 --> 00:30:35,205 Speaker 1: show any fractures to these bones. When we talked with 440 00:30:35,245 --> 00:30:39,325 Speaker 1: a journalist, Jason Peterson, the reporter who did the demonstration 441 00:30:39,405 --> 00:30:42,165 Speaker 1: of Janie falling off the porch, he brought up one 442 00:30:42,165 --> 00:30:45,925 Speaker 1: more theory that Jane had been injured before the party, 443 00:30:46,805 --> 00:30:51,405 Speaker 1: but that she hadn't collapsed until hours later. Doctor Plus's 444 00:30:51,445 --> 00:30:54,645 Speaker 1: autopsy revealed that Janie did have bruising on her elbow, 445 00:30:55,005 --> 00:30:57,445 Speaker 1: and he did confirm that she had the large bruise 446 00:30:57,485 --> 00:30:59,685 Speaker 1: on her back. Although a lot of people really didn't 447 00:30:59,725 --> 00:31:01,405 Speaker 1: want to talk with me when I called, there were 448 00:31:01,405 --> 00:31:03,285 Speaker 1: some who did, and there were some who were actually 449 00:31:03,365 --> 00:31:07,805 Speaker 1: quite chatty, And one of them was Billy. He was 450 00:31:07,845 --> 00:31:11,565 Speaker 1: one of the three people who said he saw Jane 451 00:31:11,765 --> 00:31:14,805 Speaker 1: fall off the porch, and so I wanted to talk 452 00:31:14,845 --> 00:31:16,845 Speaker 1: to him and see if he had any theories. And 453 00:31:16,885 --> 00:31:19,205 Speaker 1: when I asked him what his theory of what happened was, 454 00:31:19,925 --> 00:31:22,005 Speaker 1: he said, and I'm quoting for my notes here, I 455 00:31:22,045 --> 00:31:24,485 Speaker 1: know she fell off the porch, but I don't think 456 00:31:24,525 --> 00:31:26,845 Speaker 1: the fall killed her. I think she was suffering from 457 00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:29,525 Speaker 1: a previous injury. I think something happened to her either 458 00:31:29,645 --> 00:31:32,405 Speaker 1: hours before or maybe a couple of days before, that 459 00:31:32,645 --> 00:31:35,645 Speaker 1: just caught up with her caused her to fall. And 460 00:31:35,685 --> 00:31:38,365 Speaker 1: then Janie had been at the cabin earlier in the day. 461 00:31:38,645 --> 00:31:40,685 Speaker 1: I seem to recall that she had gone down to 462 00:31:40,725 --> 00:31:43,765 Speaker 1: the river to swim. I also remember hearing that the 463 00:31:43,765 --> 00:31:46,525 Speaker 1: guy who drove her down there he was spinning donuts 464 00:31:46,565 --> 00:31:48,365 Speaker 1: and Janie was thrown out of the back of the 465 00:31:48,405 --> 00:31:51,725 Speaker 1: truck and was injured. That way, and maybe she thought 466 00:31:51,765 --> 00:31:54,565 Speaker 1: she was okay but was really injured more seriously than 467 00:31:54,565 --> 00:31:57,725 Speaker 1: she thought. Kids take their trucks down to the Buffalo River, 468 00:31:57,845 --> 00:31:59,685 Speaker 1: which is about two miles from the cabin, all the 469 00:31:59,685 --> 00:32:02,845 Speaker 1: time to do that. And so this is the first 470 00:32:02,885 --> 00:32:06,245 Speaker 1: I heard anything about an earlier trip day to the river, 471 00:32:06,605 --> 00:32:08,645 Speaker 1: and who may have may or may not have been there. 472 00:32:09,205 --> 00:32:11,765 Speaker 1: And so but as I started to think about his 473 00:32:12,165 --> 00:32:17,325 Speaker 1: theory and the physical evidence, you know, she had unexplained 474 00:32:17,365 --> 00:32:20,685 Speaker 1: sand and gravel, and her clothes were wet, I mean 475 00:32:20,725 --> 00:32:23,685 Speaker 1: sand and gravel like under her undergarments, and you know, 476 00:32:23,805 --> 00:32:26,525 Speaker 1: falling out of a truck or another person said there 477 00:32:26,565 --> 00:32:28,845 Speaker 1: was a fight down by the river. You know, those 478 00:32:29,325 --> 00:32:32,525 Speaker 1: those things explained the presence, the unexplained presence of the 479 00:32:32,565 --> 00:32:35,245 Speaker 1: sand and gravel in her you know, under her clothes, 480 00:32:35,325 --> 00:32:38,085 Speaker 1: and why her clothes were wet. If she saw out 481 00:32:38,085 --> 00:32:40,725 Speaker 1: of a moving truck and landing on her head, you know, 482 00:32:40,805 --> 00:32:43,205 Speaker 1: face first, that could explain how her neck could have 483 00:32:43,245 --> 00:32:47,125 Speaker 1: been that badly injured. Now, how you get to that 484 00:32:47,245 --> 00:32:50,205 Speaker 1: middle ground where you're hurt really bad, but you're still 485 00:32:50,285 --> 00:32:53,365 Speaker 1: kind of like a walking wounded. You know, you'd need 486 00:32:53,405 --> 00:32:56,725 Speaker 1: to talk to someone with more medical knowledge than myself 487 00:32:56,805 --> 00:32:58,805 Speaker 1: to see if that's even possible. From what I saw 488 00:32:58,805 --> 00:33:02,045 Speaker 1: in the case file, most of Janie's day appears to 489 00:33:02,045 --> 00:33:05,605 Speaker 1: be accounted for in the investigative evidence she was is 490 00:33:05,605 --> 00:33:08,245 Speaker 1: that her friend Leslie's house, then went to the grocery 491 00:33:08,245 --> 00:33:10,925 Speaker 1: store in the pool hall, and then got picked up 492 00:33:10,965 --> 00:33:13,645 Speaker 1: by Ron to go to the party. So this theory 493 00:33:13,645 --> 00:33:15,565 Speaker 1: that she went down to the river before the party 494 00:33:15,965 --> 00:33:18,765 Speaker 1: seems like a stretch. But I bring it up because 495 00:33:18,765 --> 00:33:20,805 Speaker 1: I did talk to someone who knows a lot about 496 00:33:20,845 --> 00:33:24,805 Speaker 1: spinal injuries. His name is Douglas Cohen, and he's a 497 00:33:24,845 --> 00:33:29,125 Speaker 1: Harvard educated neurosurgeon who operates on catastrophic spinal injuries daily. 498 00:33:30,525 --> 00:33:32,325 Speaker 1: I wanted to get to the bottom of all of 499 00:33:32,325 --> 00:33:36,245 Speaker 1: our remaining spinal cord questions. Could Janey have had a 500 00:33:36,245 --> 00:33:39,285 Speaker 1: previous injury that led to her collapse, and is there 501 00:33:39,325 --> 00:33:41,565 Speaker 1: any way she could have had a spinal cord injury 502 00:33:41,925 --> 00:33:45,725 Speaker 1: if the vertebras surrounding the cord weren't broken. I guess 503 00:33:45,725 --> 00:33:48,565 Speaker 1: the first question I would have is having seen the 504 00:33:48,605 --> 00:33:54,605 Speaker 1: autopsy report. Apparently in the first autopsy the cord the 505 00:33:54,645 --> 00:33:59,365 Speaker 1: spinal cord was either taken out or her parents seemed 506 00:33:59,405 --> 00:34:02,485 Speaker 1: to think that the spinal cord was cut by some 507 00:34:02,525 --> 00:34:04,765 Speaker 1: type of injury, but then it didn't break any bones, 508 00:34:04,805 --> 00:34:07,045 Speaker 1: And we're trying to how likely that would be to happen. 509 00:34:07,605 --> 00:34:11,365 Speaker 1: Exceedingly unlikely in a young, healthy, young adult. You can 510 00:34:11,405 --> 00:34:14,365 Speaker 1: see something like that in an infant where the bones 511 00:34:14,405 --> 00:34:18,725 Speaker 1: aren't kind of well formed and there's more cartilaginous connections. 512 00:34:19,645 --> 00:34:24,685 Speaker 1: But I have never seen any direct damage to the 513 00:34:24,725 --> 00:34:28,005 Speaker 1: spinal cord without significant bony damage. That would not be 514 00:34:28,405 --> 00:34:33,245 Speaker 1: your expectation in somebody who was a young adult. Okay, 515 00:34:33,285 --> 00:34:36,165 Speaker 1: so the theory that what about the theory that some 516 00:34:36,245 --> 00:34:38,965 Speaker 1: other people have that earlier in the day she was 517 00:34:39,005 --> 00:34:42,845 Speaker 1: injured and the injury didn't manifest until she just and 518 00:34:43,125 --> 00:34:46,285 Speaker 1: that injury caused her to collapse at the party. You know, 519 00:34:46,565 --> 00:34:52,845 Speaker 1: those things are possible, but to get exceedingly rare. Generally, 520 00:34:53,005 --> 00:34:56,925 Speaker 1: when you have a traumatic injury, you're going to get 521 00:34:57,245 --> 00:35:02,245 Speaker 1: some kind of symptoms, significant complaints, even if you go 522 00:35:02,325 --> 00:35:05,165 Speaker 1: on to develop what is known as an unstable cervical spine, 523 00:35:05,165 --> 00:35:07,845 Speaker 1: which is reason why you know we see him and 524 00:35:07,965 --> 00:35:12,285 Speaker 1: instead of putting hard collars on patients, theoretically you injured 525 00:35:12,325 --> 00:35:16,445 Speaker 1: your spinal the structures so that you have an unstable 526 00:35:16,725 --> 00:35:19,805 Speaker 1: cervical spinal canal even though the spinal cord itself is 527 00:35:19,805 --> 00:35:23,485 Speaker 1: not injured. In theory, that is, a person who without 528 00:35:23,565 --> 00:35:28,365 Speaker 1: proper bracing can go on to develop worsening spinal cord injury. 529 00:35:28,645 --> 00:35:31,685 Speaker 1: But it is not somebody who will have no complaints 530 00:35:31,725 --> 00:35:34,485 Speaker 1: of pain, who will be up and walking around, who 531 00:35:34,565 --> 00:35:36,645 Speaker 1: will be, you know, feeling well enough to go to 532 00:35:36,685 --> 00:35:39,365 Speaker 1: a party and drink beer. In that circumstance, you can 533 00:35:39,405 --> 00:35:42,685 Speaker 1: have a patient with you know, at landish and almost 534 00:35:42,685 --> 00:35:46,525 Speaker 1: insufferable amounts of neck pain, very difficult to move around, 535 00:35:47,485 --> 00:35:50,125 Speaker 1: great deal of pain literally to get up from a 536 00:35:50,125 --> 00:35:53,005 Speaker 1: seated position, let alone to walk around. So it's not 537 00:35:53,165 --> 00:35:56,885 Speaker 1: something that you would expect to be clinically subtle enough 538 00:35:57,125 --> 00:35:59,965 Speaker 1: for a person to kind of go about is or 539 00:35:59,965 --> 00:36:01,845 Speaker 1: her business for the next several hours and then will 540 00:36:01,845 --> 00:36:05,405 Speaker 1: of a sudden sustain a life ending injury like this. 541 00:36:05,565 --> 00:36:09,525 Speaker 1: That would be very, very unlikely. Is it possible for 542 00:36:09,965 --> 00:36:13,045 Speaker 1: a you know, otherwise healthy teenager to fall of the 543 00:36:13,085 --> 00:36:15,565 Speaker 1: step less than ten inches high in such a way 544 00:36:15,605 --> 00:36:18,765 Speaker 1: that she would sustain this type of entury? Have you 545 00:36:18,805 --> 00:36:22,165 Speaker 1: seen that? Well? What I will tell you is that 546 00:36:22,525 --> 00:36:28,085 Speaker 1: you can yes a fool like that. Generally, although unusually, 547 00:36:28,325 --> 00:36:32,005 Speaker 1: can cause somebody's death. It does not cause somebody's death 548 00:36:32,005 --> 00:36:35,685 Speaker 1: through serviable spine injury. However, that would be exceedingly rare 549 00:36:36,045 --> 00:36:41,445 Speaker 1: and almost unheard of without any significant bony aftermaldies. When 550 00:36:41,485 --> 00:36:45,565 Speaker 1: I operate on, you know, a traumatically injured spinal cord, 551 00:36:45,965 --> 00:36:48,845 Speaker 1: it is looking mess in there. Things are torn and 552 00:36:48,925 --> 00:36:52,725 Speaker 1: bleeding and bones are broken, so it's not something that's subtle. 553 00:36:53,165 --> 00:36:57,205 Speaker 1: What generally kills people when they fall is if they 554 00:36:57,485 --> 00:37:00,485 Speaker 1: fall in a particular fashion, either kind of hitting the 555 00:37:00,485 --> 00:37:02,405 Speaker 1: back of their head or the front of the head, 556 00:37:02,845 --> 00:37:05,845 Speaker 1: they can go on to develop a significant contusive injury 557 00:37:05,885 --> 00:37:09,725 Speaker 1: of the brain increased into cranial pressure, and that can 558 00:37:09,805 --> 00:37:14,045 Speaker 1: potentially cause death. It generally doesn't happen suddenly. It can 559 00:37:14,165 --> 00:37:17,045 Speaker 1: happen suddenly, but at least that would be consistent with 560 00:37:17,165 --> 00:37:21,845 Speaker 1: kind of pathophysiologic processes of which I'm familiar. A person 561 00:37:22,005 --> 00:37:26,765 Speaker 1: falling off a tan inge step, sustaining a hyperflection injury 562 00:37:26,805 --> 00:37:30,205 Speaker 1: with essentially minimal or no bony injury, and then dying 563 00:37:30,245 --> 00:37:34,165 Speaker 1: because of a cervical cord injury. It is, as I 564 00:37:34,205 --> 00:37:36,165 Speaker 1: mentioned in my experience unheard of, at least in the 565 00:37:36,165 --> 00:37:40,325 Speaker 1: clinical setting, right, And what about someone hitting her in 566 00:37:40,325 --> 00:37:42,605 Speaker 1: the face, if that had happened, someone hitting her in 567 00:37:42,605 --> 00:37:45,645 Speaker 1: the face of baseball bat and her dying from that, well, 568 00:37:46,125 --> 00:37:51,165 Speaker 1: that's certainly possible. Again, if you hit somebody hard enough 569 00:37:51,165 --> 00:37:53,285 Speaker 1: in the face and they lose consciousness and fall back 570 00:37:53,325 --> 00:37:55,485 Speaker 1: and hit the back of their head, that also can 571 00:37:55,565 --> 00:37:58,965 Speaker 1: be potentially lethal injury. But you know, you would expect 572 00:37:59,125 --> 00:38:02,725 Speaker 1: a profound amount of contucive injury where the bat made 573 00:38:02,725 --> 00:38:07,045 Speaker 1: contact with the scalp or skull or no eyescke. I 574 00:38:07,085 --> 00:38:10,525 Speaker 1: do recall some mention of some kind of orbital echumoses 575 00:38:10,605 --> 00:38:14,605 Speaker 1: on like the second or third uh what autopsy, And 576 00:38:14,645 --> 00:38:17,485 Speaker 1: I don't recall specifically, But if you hit somebody court 577 00:38:17,565 --> 00:38:21,805 Speaker 1: enough in the face to kill them, you're gonna without 578 00:38:21,845 --> 00:38:26,045 Speaker 1: be too facetious, you're gonna leave a mark. The coroner, 579 00:38:26,325 --> 00:38:29,165 Speaker 1: most of the witnesses of the party, Kathy who worked 580 00:38:29,165 --> 00:38:33,085 Speaker 1: at the ambulance service, and investigator Bill Beach. None of 581 00:38:33,125 --> 00:38:35,765 Speaker 1: these people said they saw obvious injuries on Janey the 582 00:38:35,845 --> 00:38:38,885 Speaker 1: night she died. And no matter how we stretch the 583 00:38:38,885 --> 00:38:43,525 Speaker 1: theories around Janie's death, it seems very unlikely that Jane 584 00:38:43,605 --> 00:38:46,685 Speaker 1: could have died from a spinal injury. That means that 585 00:38:46,725 --> 00:38:50,925 Speaker 1: any evidence that supports doctor Bannell's conclusion of homicide does 586 00:38:50,965 --> 00:38:55,245 Speaker 1: not seem to exist. On June fifth, two thousand and nine, 587 00:38:55,765 --> 00:38:58,205 Speaker 1: the Judge of the Third Division of the Sarcey County 588 00:38:58,205 --> 00:39:03,325 Speaker 1: Court signed an order. It reads, the Special Prosecuting Attorney 589 00:39:03,445 --> 00:39:06,285 Speaker 1: has found no probable cause for the filing of any 590 00:39:06,285 --> 00:39:09,245 Speaker 1: criminal charges as a result of his investigation and the 591 00:39:09,285 --> 00:39:13,125 Speaker 1: forensic reports, nor has he found it necessary to request 592 00:39:13,165 --> 00:39:16,405 Speaker 1: the calling of a grand jury. It is further ordered 593 00:39:16,765 --> 00:39:21,045 Speaker 1: that the Special Prosecutor, Tim Williamson is relieved from any 594 00:39:21,085 --> 00:39:30,605 Speaker 1: further responsibility. I'm Katherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. 595 00:39:30,805 --> 00:39:34,085 Speaker 1: Helen Gone is a joint production between School of Humans 596 00:39:34,205 --> 00:39:38,605 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. It is written and recorded by me. Katherine Townsend. 597 00:39:39,285 --> 00:39:43,045 Speaker 1: Taylor Church and Gabby Watts are our producers and story editors. 598 00:39:43,805 --> 00:39:47,525 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Brandon Barr, Brian Lavin, and L. C. 599 00:39:47,685 --> 00:39:50,845 Speaker 1: Crowley for School of Humans and Connell Byrne and Chuck 600 00:39:50,885 --> 00:39:55,805 Speaker 1: Bryant for iHeart. Our field producer is Miranda Hawkins. Theme 601 00:39:55,885 --> 00:39:59,645 Speaker 1: and original score are by Ben Sale. Available wherever you 602 00:39:59,685 --> 00:40:03,485 Speaker 1: get your music. Please visit us at helen gonpodcast dot 603 00:40:03,525 --> 00:40:18,685 Speaker 1: com or follow us on socialcial media. School of Humans