1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Ruby. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Leah Palmery and I met Stillo. Welcome to 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: grown up Stuff. Today's episode is not just about a 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: buzzy phrase, but actually something that Matt and I have 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: discussed a bunch. 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 3: That's right, We're going to explore what it means to 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 3: be sober curious. Now, if you're also curious about the 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 3: phrase sober curious, we have Derek Brown joining to explain more. 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: I am curious, Matt, how did you know? 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 4: So? 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: Derek is an author, a wellness coach, and co founder 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: of the Mindful Drinking Fest. So this is a guy 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 2: who knows a thing or two about the lifestyle and 14 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: also about bringing people together to celebrate their sober curiosity. 15 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 3: Because it's not just about having less wine, right, I mean, 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 3: it's also about feeling relaxed on a date without drinking, 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 3: or making it through a family dinner without pounding beers 18 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 3: to cope, or learning new ways to unwind at night exactly. 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: And here's Derek to help us learn so much more 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: about being sober curious. He has amazing tips. He knows 21 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 2: firsthand how to do this. We learned a lot and 22 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: guess what, we're going to implement a lot too. 23 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 4: My name is Derek Brown, and I'm a hospitality consultant, 24 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 4: wellness coach, mindful drinking advocate, and the author of the 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 4: National Academy of Sports Medicine Mindful Drinking Course, as well 26 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 4: as two cocktail books, one called Spirit Sugar Water Biitters, 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 4: How the Cocktail Conquered the World, and the other one 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 4: Mindful Mixology, A Comprehensive Guide to know and low alcohol Cocktails. 29 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: Okay, Derek, tell us a little bit about your experience 30 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: with alcohol and how do you describe it today. 31 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 4: Well, I learned to drink growing up in restaurants. I 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 4: mean literally, I started working in restaurants when I was 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 4: sixteen years old, and they're really wonderful plays to learn 34 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 4: lots of things, but in terms of a healthy relationship 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 4: with alcohol, not so much. It turns out that one 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 4: in five people in the hospitality industry have a substance 37 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 4: use issue, and that person was me, and it was 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 4: something that became so normalized. I mean, when you start 39 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 4: spending time in restaurants when you're sixteen and everyone around 40 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 4: you is drinking all night, all week long. They're drinking 41 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,559 Speaker 4: at high intensity, five to ten drinks a night minimum, 42 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 4: it just becomes so normal, and that was my life. 43 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 4: I started when I was sixteen, and I'm now turning 44 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 4: fifty one this year. You know that moment that the 45 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 4: doctor asked you how many drinks? 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, yep. Are we going to be honest here 47 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: or are we going to tell you what you want 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: to hear? 49 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 4: Yeah? Well I would say something like ten, and they'd go, well, 50 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 4: we'd like you to cut down a little bit, but 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 4: that's not bad for a week, and then realizing, hey, 52 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 4: I actually drank ten last night is what I meant, 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 4: and then it was ten the night before. I didn't 54 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 4: really understand a lot about how that was affecting my life. 55 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: In fact, I thought it was normal and healthy because 56 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 4: it was all around me. And so by the time 57 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 4: I got into my forties and there was a lot 58 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 4: of things that I started to notice were let's say, 59 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 4: not optimal in my life. I wasn't in a ditch somewhere. 60 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 4: There's this quintessential sort of like I am an alcoholic 61 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 4: story about everything's ruined, and I do know people go 62 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 4: through that, so I want to empathize with that, but 63 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 4: it wasn't exactly where I was. There were things in 64 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 4: my life that weren't optimal. There are things that I 65 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 4: wasn't happy about. My relationships restrained, my finances restrained, my 66 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 4: health wasn't as good as it could be. But it 67 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 4: wasn't like I identified in that classic sense as somebody with 68 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 4: an alcohol use disorder. And so when I finally woke 69 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 4: up to that, I realized, oh my gosh, this was 70 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 4: affecting so many aspects of my life. I had to 71 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: make a change. 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: Was there something that really triggered that? And what was 73 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: the change that you made from that point? Was it 74 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: just like I'm done or was it how do I 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: implement this in a daily way? 76 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a very specific moment, and it involved 77 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: me drinking a lot, not surprisingly, and that it involved 78 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 4: me also taking other substances along with it, and waking 79 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 4: up in the morning and realizing that it was a 80 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 4: bad night. Everything had gone wrong, and I felt very low, 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 4: I felt at the edge, and I knew that I 82 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 4: had to make a change. And so once that happened, 83 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 4: I was able to stop the way that I was drinking, 84 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 4: but specifically because I addressed aspects of my mental health. 85 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 4: So I want to clarify something here. There's a term 86 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 4: that most people associate with people who drink too much, 87 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 4: and that's an alcoholic. Alcoholism is the colloquial term that 88 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: we use for a clinical disorder called substance use disorder 89 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 4: more specifically alcohol use disorder, and alcohol use disorder has mild, moderate, 90 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 4: and severe cases. And so in some cases people are 91 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 4: never able to drink again, But when it comes to 92 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 4: other people, maybe it's something that they address and it 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 4: has other features as well. For me, it was co 94 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 4: occurring with a mental health issue, which specifically was bipolar disorder, 95 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 4: and so once I addressed that aspect of it, I 96 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 4: was actually able to return to drinking moderately. I could 97 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 4: have one or two drinks a months. Now, I really 98 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 4: want to qualify. That's my story, and everyone has their 99 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 4: own recovery story, and this is not something I'm advocating 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 4: that people should go do. If you do feel like 101 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 4: you have a problem, it's great to talk to your 102 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 4: primary care physician, it's great to talk to a therapist. 103 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 4: It's great to go to one of these mutual aid 104 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 4: meetings like Alcoholics Anonymous or Smart Recovery, and that's where 105 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 4: you can really dive into it. But for me, I 106 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 4: realized that I could drink moderately after that, and so 107 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 4: I did that for a while. It was probably maybe 108 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: a year, and then I just stopped drinking. And the 109 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 4: reason why is because I got so excited about this 110 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 4: new revival of no and low alcoholic cocktails, specifically on 111 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 4: alcoholic spirits and wines and beers and the cocktails I 112 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 4: could make out of it. And so I actually kind 113 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 4: of realized, I don't want to drink the same way 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 4: I was drinking, and I don't need this. I'm exploring 115 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 4: a whole new area of mixology, so to say. There 116 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 4: were so many new products and so many new drinks 117 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 4: that I was just excited about it. 118 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 3: But at the same time, this sober curious low alcohol 119 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 3: lifestyle has really gained a lot of popularity in the 120 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: last several years, and so I'm curious to hear a 121 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: little bit of what counts as sober curious and how 122 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 3: has this movement evolved. 123 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 4: In twenty eighteen, Ruby Warrington wrote a book called Sober Curious, 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: which kind of gave us this term, right, And it's 125 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 4: exactly as it sounds. It's not that you are sober 126 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 4: in the sense that you don't drink alcohol ever. Again, 127 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 4: it's somebody who's curious about why they drink, and so 128 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 4: I like to put that term as well as sobriety, 129 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 4: as well as some of the other terms like soberish 130 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 4: that we hear under the rubric of mindful drinking. And 131 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 4: what mindful drinking really means is that we're drinking in 132 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 4: relationship to our goals and values, health or otherwise. It 133 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: means that we're taking a pause to think why do 134 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 4: we drink alcohol? And that's something that's happening as a trend, 135 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 4: but that is something that is just a good practice 136 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 4: in general. I don't know if you've seen this gallop 137 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 4: pole that came out in August where more and more 138 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 4: people are associating moderate drinking with harm. And in fact, 139 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 4: fifty four percent of Americans drink, which is a thirty 140 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 4: year low. 141 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: Which is pretty wild. 142 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 4: But all of it falls under this rubric of mindful drinking, 143 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 4: where we take a pause and we go, hey, listen, 144 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 4: if no amount of alcohol is healthy for us, then 145 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 4: maybe it's a sometimes maybe thing rather than always definitely, 146 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 4: you know. And that's been the problem is that if 147 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 4: you go out on the weekend, what are you going 148 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 4: to do? Everybody's going to drink and in fact, when 149 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 4: you don't drink, that's when you're pointed out. You feel 150 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 4: like you have to tell your entire life story just 151 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 4: because you don't want to consume this particular drug. 152 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: I feel like the movement really has probably gone arm 153 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: in arm with science. I remember when I was younger 154 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: growing up, everyone drank. My parents' drank and their friends drank, 155 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: and it was a social thing whatever. And then yeah, 156 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: you started to get the sense that there was some 157 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: science coming out around, like, oh, well, wine is actually 158 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: good for you because antioxidants, And slowly and surely science 159 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 3: has come to a conclusion that like zero amount of 160 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: alcohol is good for you. And it seems along those trends, 161 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: really the industry and people getting curious about their own 162 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: sobriety as I have, has fallen along that trend. I 163 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: kind of felt the same way. I don't really feel 164 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 3: like I'm getting that much out of this anymore, maybe 165 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 3: as much as I used to when I was in 166 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 3: college or whatever, But at the end of the day, 167 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 3: I feel like it is nice to have a fun drink. 168 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: Are there any other scientific reports that have come out 169 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 3: along those lines that you can kind of trace the 170 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 3: movement in tandem? With yeah, well, let's. 171 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: Start with the nineteen eighties and nineties, when I think 172 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 4: is what you were talking about, that people had this 173 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 4: concept of this idea that drinking was healthy for you, right, 174 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 4: especially red wine. And they were looking at red wine 175 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 4: because they believed that it had these antioxid It's never 176 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 4: mind that these antioxidants are in chocolate and grapes and 177 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 4: many other things. It was on an episode of sixty 178 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 4: Minutes of Morally Safer. It was called the Inviting Glass, 179 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 4: and they were talking about something called the French paradox. 180 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: And this paradox is that French people consumed huge amounts 181 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 4: of fat in their diet, right, butter and all kinds 182 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 4: of stuff. We know what French food is like, it's 183 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 4: rich and it's delicious. But they had less instances of 184 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 4: heart disease. And so that led some scientists to study 185 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: wine is a potential mitigating factor and that and so 186 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 4: because of that, Morally Safer raised his glass and said 187 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 4: it could be in the Inviting glass. Americans went out 188 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 4: and bought cases in cases of red wine because that's 189 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 4: all that they needed to go say yes, okay, great. 190 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 3: I've got a green light, a green light. 191 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 4: I'm ready to go. Unfortunately, it didn't look at a 192 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 4: lot of things, and since then we've seen science that 193 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 4: has certainly contradicted that. Although there are some mild protective 194 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 4: factors that drinking might have in terms of heart disease, 195 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: now here's the kicker And if you paid attention to 196 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: the surge in general. As he was leaving Vivicmurthy, doctor Murphy, 197 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 4: he put out a report about alcohol and cancer. So, yes, 198 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 4: there might be some mild protective factors that alcohol has 199 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 4: in terms of heart disease, but it actually is correlated 200 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 4: with seven different types of cancer, everything from esophagal to 201 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 4: colorectal cancer and especially breast cancer that's the one where 202 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 4: they have the most smoking bullet And so that's one 203 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 4: of the things that has really changed people's perspective because 204 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 4: cancer is obviously such a huge part of our society 205 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 4: in terms of health, it's something that we need to 206 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 4: be super concerned about. 207 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: I'm imagining that as you continue to share your story, 208 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: other people feel very comfortable to share their stories with 209 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: you as well. What are some of the most common 210 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: reasons that people give you for why they became sober 211 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: curious or why they're practicing mindful drinking. 212 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 4: I think that it's exactly as Matt said earlier, because Matt, 213 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 4: I understand you're changing your relationship with alcohol, which I 214 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 4: think is a common theme. There's a lot of people 215 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 4: in that boat, and the reason that they're saying is 216 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 4: because they just stopped and thought about it. For some people, 217 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 4: it might be I have a job that doesn't allow 218 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 4: me to be hungover in the mornings, right, Or I 219 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 4: have a kid and I can't be hung over in 220 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 4: the mornings. Even one or two glass of alcohol can 221 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 4: have a certain effect on your focus and your sleep. 222 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 4: For other people, it's because they feel like they're getting 223 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 4: trapped into it through peer pressure or social conformity. So 224 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 4: I think that it's just people asking the question why 225 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 4: do I drink alcohol? Not to say that there's no 226 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 4: good reason to drink alcohol. The fact is that it's 227 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 4: enjoyable to go out and have a drink with friends. 228 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 4: We don't want to sacrifice our social wellness to not drink, 229 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 4: So I want to be really, really clear about that. 230 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 4: None of this is to say you should sit in 231 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 4: your bedroom and sip soda water. Okay, that's not the answer. 232 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: Some days, it is some days that amazing. 233 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, fair enough day is wisely yeah, fair, but that 234 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 4: just happens. So go along with this new growing enthusiasm 235 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 4: for non alcoholic drinks. So people have choices. And I 236 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 4: think that's what is at the heart of what I 237 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 4: preach and what I think is really important. I don't 238 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 4: tell anybody drink or don't drink. I only want you 239 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 4: to have the options and the choices. And I don't 240 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 4: want people to feel pressured to drink if they don't 241 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 4: want to. 242 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 3: I love how you put it, which if or to 243 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 3: distill it, myself would be alcoholic just started having more 244 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: negative impacts on my life than positive. Yeah. And so 245 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 3: if you were talking to someone today, let's say one 246 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: of our audience members, maybe this is their first brush 247 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 3: with this idea of becoming sober curious, where would you 248 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 3: direct them to start if they wanted to explore this lifestyle. 249 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 4: Well, I think the first and easiest thing is to 250 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 4: start some research. I don't just mean go off into 251 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 4: chat GPT and start saying why shouldn't I drink? Right? 252 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 4: But let's start with asking yourself three questions and put 253 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 4: a journal in front of you, or take a walk 254 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 4: if you don't feel like writing it down. And ask yourself, 255 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 4: what is the ideal situation where I drink, what is 256 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 4: the best time, what are the worst times that I drank? 257 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 4: And how would I like to do it going forward. 258 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 4: So it's comparing and contrasting the experiences you've had, because certainly, 259 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 4: if you've had good experiences and you feel like you 260 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 4: can continue to drink, not a problem at all, continue 261 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 4: to drink. So being able to think it through ask 262 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 4: yourself a couple of questions is a good start from there. 263 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 4: If you've decided that you can still drink alcohol and 264 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 4: you want to incorporate let's say no and low alcoholic drinks, 265 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 4: I think there's a whole new world out there for you, 266 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 4: which is really exciting. And ultimately, I don't think it's 267 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 4: about what we give up. I think it's what we gain. 268 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of giving up to do you recommend people 269 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: try to quit drinking cold turkey? Do you think that 270 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: is something that works? Is that something that helps them 271 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: then readjust and balance and say, okay, I can incorporate 272 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: one more back in or something like what are your 273 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: thoughts on just like completely stopping drinking. 274 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 4: I think one of the easiest ways to do it 275 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 4: is to look at one of these temporary abstinence months. 276 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: Now we have Sober October coming up, there's going to 277 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 4: be dry January, and then dry July. Trust me, they're 278 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 4: going to come up with a month for every single 279 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 4: one of these. But let's just focus on dry January 280 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 4: and Sober October as it kind of book ends there. 281 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: This is a perfect opportunity because one of the struggles 282 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 4: is that you go out and maybe you're having a 283 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 4: non acqholic beer, sipping water or whatever, and somebody says, 284 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 4: why aren't you drinking, And all of a sudden, again 285 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 4: you have to tell your whole life story just to say, like, 286 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 4: I'm just trying to figure out whether I want a 287 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 4: drink or not. So during Dry January Sober October, you 288 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 4: have the perfect cover. You say, I'm doing dry January, 289 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 4: I'm doing this challenge. I'm doing thirty days to see 290 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 4: if I can go without alcohol. 291 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: And if that. 292 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 4: Works well for you, then maybe you want to keep 293 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 4: it going. Or if that doesn't work well in the 294 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 4: sense like you have a lot of trouble doing it, 295 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 4: then maybe that's a good signal to you that you 296 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: may need external help for this. So I think to me, 297 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 4: temporary absence months are a great place to start. But 298 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 4: I've actually come up with an acronym called rate, as 299 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 4: in the rate that you're drinking, and it has four 300 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 4: different strategies that you can use to reduce the way 301 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 4: you drink. R stands for replace, A stands for avoid, 302 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 4: T stands for temper, and E stands for illicit. So 303 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 4: replace is simple. In some cases, it could be as 304 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 4: simple as maybe at the end of a run you're 305 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 4: used to having a cold beer, replacing it with a 306 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 4: non alcoholic beer, or if you're used to having a 307 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 4: old Fashion at the end of the day, that's a 308 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 4: great drink. I don't want to take it from you. 309 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,479 Speaker 4: There's some wonderful ready to drink cocktails, there's some wonderful 310 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 4: non alcoholic bourbon replacements. Believe it or not, they don't 311 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 4: taste like bourbon, but if you mix them into an 312 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 4: old fashion, they taste really good. Love that, So replacing 313 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 4: it is a simple way that you don't have to 314 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 4: feel like you're missing out from your ritual, from your 315 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 4: usual experience, from going out. 316 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 3: Do you cover the old fashion in your books, because 317 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 3: that is a drink that I do miss very much, 318 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 3: and I might need to pick up a recipe or 319 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: two from your book. 320 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely yeah, my book Mindful Mixology, I definitely talk 321 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 4: about how to make a good old fashion without alcohol. 322 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 4: But Matt, I'm going to send you the recipe and 323 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 4: you all can post it for your audience too if 324 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 4: you'd like. 325 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: That'd be incredible. 326 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 4: So the A and rate is pretty obvious, but in 327 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 4: some cases it means just avoiding things that you are 328 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 4: used to drinking it. So let's say that you're dating. 329 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 4: This is a really scary one if you don't have alcohol, 330 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 4: I get it. But maybe avoiding bars, maybe inviting somebody 331 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 4: out to a cultural event or a movie theater that 332 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 4: doesn't have alcohol, or a climbing gym, something that's slightly 333 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 4: different so that you can avoid the usual scenario. But 334 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 4: as you can see, I'm not saying avoid it, like 335 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 4: never go there. I'm saying find an alternative that I 336 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 4: think feels equally attractive. 337 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: Also, just to say it, having an activity on a 338 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 3: first date especially great way to have a first date. 339 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 3: Huge fan of the activity first date that isn't drinking. 340 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 2: And also no rock climbing places should be serving alcohol 341 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: at all any So. 342 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 4: That's a win win, Yeah, rock climbing and alcohol not 343 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 4: the best mix. Then the T and rate is for 344 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 4: temper and what I mean is just reduce the amount 345 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 4: you drink. So let's say that you are worried about 346 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 4: giving it up cold turkey, maybe drinking low alcohol alternatives, 347 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 4: you know, maybe where you usually go for that martini 348 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 4: which is hitting about thirty percent ABV or alcohol by volume, 349 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 4: having a glass of wine instead, or there's something called 350 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 4: zebra striping. Are you familiar with this term? Oh no, 351 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 4: So it means that you have a non alcoholic drink, 352 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 4: an alcoholic drink. 353 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: A non alcoholic drink. 354 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 4: So it's a way that you don't have to feel 355 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 4: like you'll never have alcohol again, and you can stay 356 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 4: in the moment and spend time with your friends, have three, 357 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 4: maybe four drinks and zebra stripe all along. So I 358 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 4: think that's a way to temper it. And then finally 359 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 4: the last one E is illicit, And that's illicit help 360 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 4: because sometimes we do need support, even if we don't 361 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 4: feel that we have alcohol used disorder. So there are 362 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 4: apps that you can get. Yes, there's an app for everything, 363 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 4: and there are apps that you can get that will 364 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 4: help you track the amount that you drink, which is 365 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 4: really useful. And there's like SMS texting that'll help you 366 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 4: report the amount that you drink. They send you nice messages, 367 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 4: and there's some empirical evidence that SMS texting will actually 368 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 4: help reduce the amount you drink. There's a lot more. 369 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 4: That's just a small bag of tricks that you can 370 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 4: use to reduce drinking. 371 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a quick. 372 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: Break, and we're back with more grown up stuff. 373 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 3: How do I don't. 374 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: There are so many benefits from this, but what are 375 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: some of the ones that both you have experienced and 376 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 2: you either witnessed or you've heard from other people that 377 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: they feel physically and mentally better in ways that you 378 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: maybe never even imagined. Help motivate us to feel like, 379 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 2: you know what, this is the journey I'm going to 380 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: go on because it's going to make me feel better 381 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 2: in this way. 382 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: Well, the first thing that I want to say is 383 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 4: that not all the benefits hit everyone equally, So I 384 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 4: can't promise anybody all of these benefits. Okay, but here's 385 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 4: the one that I'm pretty sure everyone will experience. Better sleep. Yes, 386 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 4: alcohol is not very good for sleep. It turns out 387 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 4: we wake up in the middle of the night after 388 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 4: we've been drinking, as soon as the effects of the 389 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 4: alcohol wear off, and it causes a restless night. It 390 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 4: doesn't allow us to go into deeper stages of sleep, 391 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 4: and we wake up and we feel less focus, our 392 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 4: mood is worse, we're hungrier. So it leads to this 393 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 4: array of all these things that we don't want. So 394 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 4: just getting good sleep is one of the easiest benefits. 395 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 4: And I challenge anybody to especially if you're wearing a wearable. 396 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 4: You know, I gu is that what they call them 397 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 4: a wearable. It's like a ring or a watch that's 398 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 4: monitoring your sleep. Check it after you've had a night 399 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 4: of drinking. Compare that to the nights that you don't drink, 400 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 4: and you're going to see a radical change. But you know, 401 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 4: the other part of it is that it's obviously going 402 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 4: to help us reduce our risk of disease. In each 403 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 4: individual case, it might be different, but it certainly helps. Overall. 404 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 4: It helps us to live longer and live better. So 405 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 4: that old concept or idea that drinking alcohol is going 406 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 4: to make you live longer and better is discredited. It's different. 407 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 4: Now we recognize that living a healthy life means that 408 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 4: we're going to either reduce or eliminate alcohol from our diet. 409 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 4: So people talk about skin benefits. Alcohol does have a 410 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 4: certain effect on our skin. You'll have to talk to 411 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 4: a dermatologists for more specifics about that, but I've noticed. 412 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 3: I was going to say, Derek, the first thing when 413 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 3: I popped on I was like, this man's skin is 414 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 3: just fantastic. I know you're just one case, but it's 415 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 3: working for you, Derek. I'll say that, Yeah, that's right. 416 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 4: That fifty one, I have glowing skin that, believe me, 417 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 4: around thirty eight was not as glowing. So Yes, and 418 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 4: anxiety because alcohol is this immediate effect where it reduces 419 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 4: our anxiety in the moment, we think, ah good. I 420 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 4: don't know anybody who doesn't have a little bit of 421 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 4: anxiety in their life, right, It's just part of being 422 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 4: in the modern world. But all of a sudden, alcohol, 423 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 4: which seemingly relieves it in the moment, actually causes more 424 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 4: anxiety and a long run. 425 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, anxiety is a real thing. 426 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 4: Oh yeah. There was an author that called it the 427 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 4: metaphysical hangover. When you wake up the next day and 428 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 4: you're just like, oh what did I do? And you 429 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 4: start texting your friends like, hey, was I okay last night? 430 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 3: You know, not a good look. No, I'll just jump 431 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: in and corroborate all this stuff. I think I'm like 432 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 3: six weeks maybe into my sober curious journey. And that's 433 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: just the number one thing is that, like we were 434 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 3: tapering off, maybe we would have a drink every other 435 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 3: night or every night two three, whatever, and we've just 436 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: slowly tapered off to like we were having no drinks 437 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: and oh then we'd go out and we'd have a 438 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: drink with a friend and yeah, I would just wake up. 439 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 3: The more you're like, I just feel bad, Like I 440 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 3: don't know if it's that I have a headache or 441 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 3: that it's just my digest assistant isn't happy, or I 442 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: didn't sleep enough. I just feel better when I don't drink. 443 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 3: And as we've started rolling, although getting the flywheel going, 444 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 3: like just having six weeks of great sleep and not 445 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 3: really missing it because we have been substituting with those 446 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 3: near beers, we've both kind of realized we just wanted 447 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 3: a fun drink, it didn't necessarily need to have alcohol 448 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 3: in it, and yeah, just feeling a lot better. But 449 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: for people who do want to go down this sober 450 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,719 Speaker 3: curious journey, but they're still a little anxious about not 451 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: having a sort of social lubricant. How might you direct 452 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 3: them to be able to relax in social environments without 453 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 3: alcohol's the sort of crutch. 454 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, the first thing is making sure that they 455 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: have a non alcoholic beverage on the ready. That might 456 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 4: mean that going into environments they know that they're going 457 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 4: to be non alcoholic beverages. That helps, or just having 458 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 4: a soda water and bidders. Obviously bidders do have alcohol, 459 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 4: but not a lot of alcohol, so adding a couple 460 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 4: of dashes to a drink is probably not going to 461 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 4: put you in a state of intoxication. Having that drink 462 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 4: really helps. And let me explain why, because alcohol and 463 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 4: the way we drink is a piece of this is 464 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 4: going back to my days of anthropology and school embodied 465 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 4: material culture, and what it really means is it just 466 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 4: becomes so part of who we are in our bodies 467 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 4: that when we go to a party, your hand just feels. 468 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 3: Like a cup. 469 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 4: Immediately you're like, what do I do if I don't? 470 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 4: You know, it's like that anchor man, what do I 471 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 4: do with my hands? You get anxious just from not 472 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 4: having that drink, and so I really think it's important 473 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 4: to have an alternative in mind. So I think that's 474 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 4: a really good start. The other part of it is 475 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 4: I find it really useful. And this goes under the 476 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 4: E and rate elicit help having a buddy to go with, right, 477 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 4: So choosing somebody that you feel comfortable will call them 478 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 4: emotional support human somebody who you feel like will support 479 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 4: you and not going to get hammered themselves, and you 480 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 4: all can talk in between if everyone else is drinking 481 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 4: and you feel uncomfortable, like, hey, what's going on? Should 482 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 4: we stay? Should I have another drink? That sort of 483 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 4: thing is really useful to have a buddy or a 484 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 4: goal partner. But just also recognizing that the same positive 485 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: emotions that we get from drinking, because there are moments 486 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 4: where we're drinking, we're having a great time. I don't 487 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 4: want to undermine that. I don't want to tell anybody 488 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 4: that that's fake. That's not true. Of course they have 489 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 4: great experiences where they've had drinks, but those same positive 490 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 4: emotions are caused by laughing, storytelling, eating, drinking complex and 491 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 4: interesting drinks that aren't alcohol. All of those things can 492 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 4: help elicit those positive emotions too, So allow yourself to 493 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 4: experience that right, allow yourself to be there without alcohol 494 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 4: causing what we call an expectancy effect, because that's the 495 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 4: other part is alcohol. We think it's going to cause 496 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 4: an effect on us, and so it does. It's fascinating before. 497 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 2: I find my emotional support human, how do I explain 498 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: my sober curiosity to my friends, to my family, and 499 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 2: most importantly, to somebody I'm on a date with? Because 500 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: I think being a woman of a certain age, we 501 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: know better than to question why or why not somebody 502 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: might be drinking, whether they're trying to start a family 503 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: or health reasons. Is it weird to just lie and 504 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 2: be like, Oh, I'm on medication, so I can't drink 505 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 2: alcohol right now? Are there better ways to explain it 506 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 2: to the people that we're hanging out with why you're 507 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 2: making this decision without freaking them out? 508 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 3: And is it weird that Leah always lies and says 509 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 3: that she can't take a medication to fee with the alcohol. 510 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 4: Well, I never advocate lying, but it does turn out 511 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 4: that it's none of anyone's business whether you drink or 512 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 4: don't drink, And that means even your family and friends. 513 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 4: If you don't want to tell them, you don't have 514 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 4: to tell them. So if anyone's looking for permission not 515 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 4: to tell people about their most intimate details of their life, 516 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 4: tell them. Derek gave you permission. As a bartender and 517 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 4: as a wellness coach. You don't have to tell anybody anything, 518 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 4: but I will share this. It is nice to tell 519 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 4: people's stuff, and people do ask, and sometimes you don't 520 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 4: want to say speak to the hand, so I get it. 521 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 4: I would say that one of the easiest ways is 522 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 4: something I call propping, and that is having a drink 523 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 4: in your hand that looks like an alcohol drink and 524 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 4: never telling anybody. You don't have to lie about it. 525 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 4: In that case, you just make a pact with the bartender. 526 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 4: You go over to the bar, and bartenders love people 527 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 4: who don't drink too much. Yeah, trust me, it's the 528 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 4: people who drink too much that we never enjoyed having 529 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 4: around us. So I think if you make a pack 530 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 4: to the bartender and say, hey, listen, I'm not drinking, 531 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 4: but will you just make me a drink in one 532 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 4: of those stout glasses with a lime on the side. 533 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 4: Just give me a tonic water. Every time somebody orders 534 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 4: it round, I'll get that tonic water and then they'll 535 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 4: never know that I'm not drinking. So propping is a 536 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 4: really easy way to do it without lying. But other 537 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 4: than that, I think, like I said, temporary absence months 538 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 4: are really good because that is one that most people 539 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 4: at this point have heard of. But I think, even 540 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 4: though I don't advocate lying in a situation where somebody 541 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 4: is pushing you to say it, certainly I understand if 542 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 4: you have to say, hey, listen, I can't drink tonight 543 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 4: because XYZ. But I love the idea also of just 544 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 4: sharing with somebody I'm just not drinking right now, but 545 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 4: I'm glad to be here with you. That's also a 546 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 4: really simple way to put it. And hopefully if they're 547 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 4: a good friend of yours, they'll accept them. 548 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 3: Or you could try my new thing, which is to 549 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 3: convert people, like I'll start telling people what I'm doing. Also, 550 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 3: how much better I feel, how fun it can be 551 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 3: to not drink. The great market of wines and beers 552 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: and all these non alcoholic things you can partake in 553 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 3: if you want to go the other way, though, do 554 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: you want to know what a gin and tonic looks 555 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: exactly like a glass of Seltzer with aligne in it, 556 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 3: So you can just get that and then drink that 557 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 3: all night and pay zero dollars. 558 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: I'm glad you bring this up because we've learned a 559 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: lot from Derek already. But I do have a very 560 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: hard hitting question, which is why when I order a mocktail, 561 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: is it still fifteen dollars. Yeah, that's a bunch of 562 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: juices and a glass. Most of the time it is delicious. 563 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: But if they're not even using non alcohol in it, 564 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: and it's literally just like here's pineapple juice, orange juice 565 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 2: and a little umbrella, and I'm still buying fifteen dollars 566 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: like I have alcohol in it, do you have any 567 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: insight behind this? 568 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: Well, before that, they were just using cheap rail rum 569 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 4: and pineappletity, So if they were out to cheat you, 570 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: they were already cheating you with or without alcohol. I 571 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 4: hate to say it, that's true, but yeah, I don't 572 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 4: suggest anybody pay fifteen dollars for a can pineapple juice 573 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 4: and grenadine. That's terrible. Yeah, and that's a ripoff, and 574 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 4: bar should be ashamed of themselves if they're doing that. However, 575 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 4: if they are making really complex, interesting non alcoholic cocktails 576 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 4: using distilled non alcoholic spirits, then that's the cost. Right. 577 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 4: Non alcoholic products can be even more expensive than alcohol 578 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 4: to make. I'll give you an example. So there's a 579 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 4: Bidder's company in Chico, California called All the Bitterers. His 580 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 4: family company, Ian and Carly Blessing, friends of mine. Great 581 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 4: product and it's an alternative to like Angus store. If 582 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 4: you've ever seen those biders or orange bitters, you know 583 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 4: they use putting old fashions of various cocktails. They make 584 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 4: a non alcoholic version. The base of it is glycerine, 585 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 4: which is a totally reasonable and healthy substitute. But because 586 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 4: alcohol is such a great solvent and glycerin not as much, 587 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 4: you have to use four five times the amount of product, 588 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,719 Speaker 4: and they use real fruit, real things to put in it. 589 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 4: So that means that they are going to use more 590 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 4: material to make that product than somebody who's making it 591 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 4: with alcohol. And it's a smaller scale because obviously at 592 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 4: a large scale you can save money, but when you're 593 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 4: making a small craft products, it costs more. So I 594 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 4: would say that even though these non alcoholic cocktails sometimes 595 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 4: are expensive, if there's all the effort of all the 596 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 4: care is put into it, then it's worth it. 597 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: Okay, fair, You've brought me around to their side, Derek, 598 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: and you know what, look they look beautiful. So I 599 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: get my Instagram picture and really that's priceless. So I 600 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 2: think they've solved that today. Are there any hurdles that 601 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 2: you were surprised by in this or other people have 602 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: shared with you that they were like, Oh, I didn't 603 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: expect this to be a thing that came up while 604 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: figuring this out for themselves. 605 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to tell you the biggest hurdle that 606 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: I had because my life had been alcohol had in 607 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 4: every part of it, right. It was my job, it 608 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 4: was my hobby, it was how I made friends, it 609 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 4: was everything. When I stopped drinking at that rate, I 610 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 4: was actually legitimately scared what am I going to do? 611 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 4: I felt almost like I had lost a friend in 612 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 4: a weird way, like a companion. Alcohol had becomes so 613 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 4: much a part of my life and my experience that 614 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 4: it felt sad not to have it there. So initially, 615 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 4: I have to say that I felt I had a 616 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 4: lot of anxiety about just going out and being around 617 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 4: other people that was short lived. I don't miss it 618 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 4: at all. I think there's so many great cocktails and 619 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 4: spirits and all this stuff. You still can't get a 620 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 4: great non alcoholic Scotch yet. I get it if you're 621 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,959 Speaker 4: a connoisseur. But at the end of the day, my 622 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 4: life is far better for not drinking, and I never 623 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 4: think about it. 624 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just say that people you want to 625 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 3: have in your life, for the people who are supporting 626 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 3: you and being your champion no matter what you decide 627 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 3: to do. So to kind of round out here, Derek, 628 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 3: I'd love to hear. Is there anything that we didn't 629 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 3: ask you that you wanted to talk about or final thoughts? 630 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 631 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 4: I think the really important thing is that we need 632 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 4: more bars, restaurants, hospitality spaces, concerts, venues to have options. 633 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 4: I think that's really important. So I really encourage those 634 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 4: listening who own those spaces to consider having a few 635 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 4: options that people could choose one, because you're leaving money 636 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 4: on the table if you don't. There was already twenty 637 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 4: five percent of the population that didn't drink alcohol anyway, 638 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 4: and that's when this whole movement started, and now it's 639 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 4: just growing. But besides that, it's good for people to 640 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 4: have options, so that's one thing. And those of you 641 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 4: who maybe don't own a place but go to bars 642 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 4: and restaurants and concert venues regularly ask for them. I 643 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 4: go to a minor league baseball team and Maryland that 644 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 4: I really like, and I've asked maybe a dozen times 645 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 4: for a non alcoholic beer, and finally they got one. 646 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 3: WHOA, And it was great. 647 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 4: Yeah me, because it is a really wonderful experience being 648 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 4: in a game and having a cold beer. So I 649 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 4: really was grateful for that, And yes it did take 650 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 4: a little bit insistence, but it happened. 651 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 2: I wish there was like a costco setup where you 652 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: could try the non alcoholic beer so that people could 653 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 2: not have to pay for it yet and just have 654 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: a little sip and realize how tasty it actually is 655 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 2: and how much it is like a perfect swap for 656 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: the real thing, so that then they would then order more. 657 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's made the journey so much easier living in 658 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 3: a major city where I've been surprised at the amount 659 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 3: of bars that have non alcoholic beers or functions that 660 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 3: have gone to where there are non alcoholic options, and 661 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 3: so couldn't agree more with you that it's just so 662 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 3: important that more people get on the bus because to 663 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 3: your point, they're leaving money on the table and this 664 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 3: might be the nudge that some people need to really 665 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 3: take the plunge. And then lastly, Derek would love to 666 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: shout out to the people where they can find you 667 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 3: and more of your work. 668 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 4: Sure, the first thing I'd encourage people is to check 669 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 4: out Mindful Drinkingfest dot com. We have an annual event. 670 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 4: We had twelve hundred people this past year. We had 671 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 4: over two hundred and twenty products. If you want to 672 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 4: try the products, this is a great environment to do it. 673 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 4: Programming over three days and we had a bunch of 674 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 4: wellness classes and that sort of thing. It was a 675 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 4: really great fun experience, including just fun parties. I do 676 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 4: hospitality consulting at Drink Company dot com, so if anybody 677 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 4: wants some good nine o'clock beers cocktails, check that out 678 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 4: and feel free to reach out to me for help. 679 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 4: Other than that, the National Academy of Sports Medicine has 680 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 4: a great course on mindful drinking if you're interested in 681 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,240 Speaker 4: taking that course. It self led and it's a wonderful start. 682 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 3: Derek, thank you so much. This has been a sobering conversation. 683 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Derek. 684 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure. 685 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: Okay, Matt, what is something that you're taking away from 686 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 2: our conversation with Derek That I. 687 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 3: Was too mean to my friend Andrew when he was 688 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 3: starting Sober Curious journey. We ride bikes together every week 689 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 3: to a bar, and he was always like not drinking, 690 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 3: and I gave him some shit about it. And I 691 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 3: feel bad as he really encouraged me to go on 692 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 3: the journey, and so I want to thank him, Thank you, Andrew. 693 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 3: But also I feel like I could have played more 694 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 3: of a supportive role in his journey. I mean, he's 695 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 3: like steadfast. There was nothing I was going to do 696 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 3: is going to knock him off of his game. But 697 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 3: I think everything that people are doing, whether it's drinking 698 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 3: less or trying to be more healthy, it's something that 699 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 3: they're doing for themselves. And so I would only say, 700 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 3: if someone in your life is going through the same 701 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 3: kind of journey, be supportive or go on the journey 702 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 3: with him and maybe start converting more people. This is 703 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 3: something that I think it's going to be a challenge 704 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 3: for me when I go home for the holidays this 705 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 3: year because of the wine flows at my parents' house 706 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 3: when we go home for the holidays. I think I 707 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 3: might have to do a little preemptive work to maybe 708 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 3: work some non alcoholic beverages into the holiday this year. 709 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: Ship a few bottles there ahead of time, ship it out, 710 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 2: get it there before you even get there. I appreciate 711 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 2: you admitting that and also paying it forward and trying 712 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 2: to bring other people on this wellness journey. Obviously, the 713 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: thing that I am taking away from this is the 714 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 2: understanding of why my mocktails cost so damn much, because 715 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 2: I was going to get angry about why the juices 716 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 2: were so expensive. But with the way that he put it, 717 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: and look, it is basically a drinkable art. Like sometimes 718 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 2: when they bring these things over to you, the places 719 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 2: that do them well and do them right, they bring 720 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: you over something that is like a really beautiful chemical concoction, 721 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 2: and so like, I do have a new appreciation for 722 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 2: these beautiful mocktails, and don't cheap me out, don't try 723 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 2: to just give me orange juice. But the ones that 724 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 2: are really well done, I have a new appreciation for me. 725 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 3: Too, because here's the thing about the price of these mocktails. 726 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 3: They're so high that they might drive someone to drink. 727 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 3: So it's good to know that there's a reason behind 728 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: the high price tag. 729 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: Well that is true, Matt, and you know what we 730 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: always say, until next time, good luck being a grown up. 731 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 3: This is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. Our 732 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 3: executive producers are Leopel Mary. 733 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 2: And Matt Stillo. This episode was edited and engineered by 734 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: Sierra 735 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 3: Spreen and we want to thank our teammates at Ruby Studio, 736 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 3: including Sarah You, Ethan Fixel, rachels Wan, krasnov Lydia Kim, 737 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 3: Abby Aguilar, Harper Wain, Celia Verpleu, Deborah Garrett, and Andy Kelly.