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Speaker 1: I miss the green.

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Speaker 2: For example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball

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Speaker 2: in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 1: And when I find my.

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Speaker 3: Ball in a Frida Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida

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Speaker 3: Egg Friday Friday Bride Egg.

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Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off a golf course.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another edition of the

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Speaker 3: Friday Egg Podcast. Today we will dive back into golf

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Speaker 3: course architecture and we are joined by Riley Johns. Riley

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Speaker 3: is an up and coming architect from Canada who recently

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Speaker 3: completed his first solo design with Keith Rabb at Winter

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Speaker 3: Park and has worked under great architects such as Tom Doak,

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Speaker 3: Bill Krer, Ben Crenshaw and Rod Whitman.

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Speaker 2: Riley, welcome on, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of your up and coming success

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Speaker 1: as a as a professional podcaster.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about that after the intro music, it

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Speaker 3: takes a sharp decline, So I'd love to you know,

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people probably aren't familiar with

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Speaker 3: your name, but would love to hear a little bit

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Speaker 3: about your background, how you got into golf course design,

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Speaker 3: and a little bit about you.

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Speaker 1: Well. You know, I kind of came from I'm Canadian obviously,

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Speaker 1: so you know, golf is being is a big part

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Speaker 1: of our you know, our country up here, along with

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Speaker 1: other sports like hockey. But you know, I kind of

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Speaker 1: came from a different side of things. I came from

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Speaker 1: more of a construction background rather than you know, I

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Speaker 1: was never the kid that was drawn you know, golf

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Speaker 1: holes on the back of his you know, restaurant place, Matt.

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Speaker 1: You know, I never you know, my father was never

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Speaker 1: a member at a prestigious club, and and so I

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Speaker 1: never really had a you know, golf centric kind of background.

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Speaker 1: I came from more of a you know, I love

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Speaker 1: the outdoors.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was always the kid that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we never had TV or anything like that. We you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't go outside and play. We'd build sports out

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Speaker 1: in the forest. And you know, I was pretty lucky

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Speaker 1: to grow up in a in a town, mountain town

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Speaker 1: in Canada, right right next to you know, damps, and

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Speaker 1: it's a beautiful part of the country. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time outdoors, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: we we you know, I was always a kid that

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Speaker 1: was we'd always we'd have sandbox right, We had tongo toys,

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Speaker 1: and we'd you know, we we'd shape things with the

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Speaker 1: sand and build, you know on our version of a

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Speaker 1: big hydro dam and get the garden hose and fill

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Speaker 1: it up to the brim and you know, breach the

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Speaker 1: hydro dam and watch the sandbox flood and you know,

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Speaker 1: do those kinds of things. So, you know, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of how I grew up. And a lot of my

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Speaker 1: summer jobs included outdoor you know type work, whether it

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Speaker 1: be land landscaping or land surveying, golf course maintenance, or

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Speaker 1: ski lift construction or even you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: civil kind of you know, outdoor civil projects. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I was never you know, other than being

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Speaker 1: the ball boy picking up golf balls and doing golf

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Speaker 1: course maintenance. I was never really part of golf until

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Speaker 1: later on in my life. And that was when I

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Speaker 1: was doing golf course maintenance that I realized that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed golf as a sport, but also the

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Speaker 1: whole design aspect, uh and the strategy that came along

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Speaker 1: with it, and just the whole you know, golf as

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Speaker 1: being h you know, something that meet you know, the

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Speaker 1: development like that was one thing I, you know, never

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Speaker 1: thought of as as a kid growing up either was

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know there was even a profession

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Speaker 1: out there called golf course architecture, golf course design. That

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Speaker 1: was something I just never thought of until I remember, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we were serving land serving a golf course. Uh here

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Speaker 1: here in my hometown. My dad was a land surveyor,

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Speaker 1: so I've you know, worked with him quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: And we're surveying, you know, a golf course. And this

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Speaker 1: was before GPS and you know that fancy technology now

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Speaker 1: that you can pretty much do it from from a computer.

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Speaker 1: We had to go out in the into the four,

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Speaker 1: into the bush and you know, a cut a cup

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Speaker 1: line so he could get the shot. And I remember

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Speaker 1: cutting his cut line and you know, about two hundred

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Speaker 1: yards down he said, okay, and I'll move the you know,

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Speaker 1: move the steak over to the left, okay, and I'll

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Speaker 1: put that on the ground now right down eighth green, right.

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Speaker 1: And I'm here in the middle of the forest and

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Speaker 1: going on eighth green right here. This doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: And that was kind of a kind of an AHA

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Speaker 1: moment for me as far as wow, golf is a

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Speaker 1: big development and there's people that you know, are are

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Speaker 1: fundamental in the creation of golf and it's something that

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Speaker 1: needs to be traded. So, you know, I went on

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Speaker 1: to working for you know, various golf course related entities,

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Speaker 1: whether it be you know, doing golf course and maintenance.

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Speaker 1: You know, I worked. I worked actually at a golf

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Speaker 1: course here in town where I did. I worked on

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Speaker 1: the maintenance, true in the morning, and then I worked

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen at night. And so I was working

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Speaker 1: you know, twelve hour days, uh, getting up early and

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Speaker 1: staying late and just kind of lived at the golf

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Speaker 1: course for for an entire season. So I was it

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Speaker 1: was an interesting, you know, kind of interesting aspect. Two,

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Speaker 1: just to being involved in a golf course where you

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Speaker 1: can kind of see the operations from all different at

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Speaker 1: different angles, was you know, that was that was pretty

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Speaker 1: interesting too. And you know as I as I you know,

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Speaker 1: decided to kind of take this, you know a little

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Speaker 1: bit further. I I, you know, sent some sent some

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Speaker 1: resumes out and got on a golf course contractor team

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Speaker 1: and started building golf in the Calgary area. You know,

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Speaker 1: just picking rocks on a fairway, you know, like you

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Speaker 1: don't there's no h there's no glorious path to say

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Speaker 1: any of this, and I don't even know if right

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Speaker 1: or wrong. I'm sure as you interview more people, you

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Speaker 1: realize that everyone's kind of taking their own, you know,

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Speaker 1: path to get to. So where they went in mind

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Speaker 1: was a very hands on, you know, construction path, and

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Speaker 1: you know, working for a golf contractor just really opened

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Speaker 1: my eyes to you know, what is actually involved in

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Speaker 1: creating golf and how much goes into it, how many

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Speaker 1: people are involved, and all the nuances involved in that.

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Speaker 1: And they also had fantastic you know access to some

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Speaker 1: seasoned professionals and architects and a variety of you know

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Speaker 1: people in the industry who you know mentored me and

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Speaker 1: educated me and taught me, and you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: before you know it, I was seventeen years old and

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Speaker 1: sitting in the dozer and you know, pushing dirt and

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Speaker 1: fell in love with it from that day and started

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Speaker 1: shaping and doing some finishing work, learned drainage and learn

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Speaker 1: you know, I worked for irrigation contractors. I can you know,

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Speaker 1: install irrigation, So I just kind of learned as much

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Speaker 1: as I could about about golf and golf course design

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Speaker 1: and construction, you know, reading, reading golf course architecture books,

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Speaker 1: you know, while shaping on a project. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: while you know, picking picking people's brains on you know,

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Speaker 1: questions that I had and having access to those kind

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Speaker 1: of people was it was critical, and you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of them were very supportive and and you know

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Speaker 1: suggested that I, you know, I had a knack for

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Speaker 1: it and that I take it, you know, to the

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Speaker 1: next level and you know, keep pursuing it and encourage

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Speaker 1: me to basically you know, go to school was kind

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Speaker 1: of the next step. You know, I'd been you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd worked on dozens of projects, you know, whether they

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Speaker 1: were brand new builds or renovations or restorations or remodels

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Speaker 1: or what have you. And I want and you know,

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Speaker 1: learning architecture from from books and that kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: is is good, but you know it has its, you know,

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Speaker 1: limitations as far as what you can get out of it.

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Speaker 1: And and so you know, I've enrolled in the University

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Speaker 1: of Gwelph's Landscape Architecture program with the intent or the

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Speaker 1: focus of kind of concentrating on golf and golf design

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Speaker 1: and golf architecture and you know, and any sort of

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Speaker 1: engineering anything that you know, I took per science as

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Speaker 1: kind of a minor and just kind of piece together,

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Speaker 1: you know, an education that I thought would be beneficial

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Speaker 1: going forward, and it was fantastic. It was, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've learned so much in that in that four years

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Speaker 1: of you know, things that I just wouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to kind of pull from a book. And I was

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Speaker 1: able to you my experience that you know, that I

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Speaker 1: already had, you know, ten years of shaping and and

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Speaker 1: building golf, so new things, you know, and having having

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Speaker 1: a lens surveying background as well, just you know, I

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Speaker 1: felt like I had a pretty good understanding of you know,

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Speaker 1: spatial spatial analysis and three D and development and you know,

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Speaker 1: contours and grading and all that stuff was you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty natural to me by that point. So I

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Speaker 1: was able to focus my studies more on some of

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Speaker 1: the you know, the meat potatoes are kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of the nuances of design and learn, you know, learn

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Speaker 1: theories on you know, whether it be you know, conceal

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Speaker 1: and reveal, prospect refuge, or you know, any sort of

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Speaker 1: kind of landscape architecture theories. And then I started kind

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Speaker 1: of looking at that through the through the lens of

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Speaker 1: golf course architecture, and I, you know, I started to

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Speaker 1: find a lot of simil larities and and how and

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Speaker 1: and how golf course architecture and landscape architecture where they

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Speaker 1: met and where they differed. And you know, I was

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Speaker 1: able to kind of learn on a deeper level, I

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Speaker 1: suppose kind of what I wanted to get out of

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Speaker 1: a university and and so you know, that was that

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Speaker 1: was fantastic. You know, I just paid my way to

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Speaker 1: university was through shaping. So I was kind of just

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Speaker 1: immersed and golf course and golf course designed for you know,

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Speaker 1: for for a long time. And and and then you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to trying to get to the next level. You know,

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Speaker 1: we don't I don't have the luxury of having a

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Speaker 1: you know, a father who was a golf course architect

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Speaker 1: or a professional golfer or anything like that. So you know,

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Speaker 1: the next and the next step was to hound hound

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Speaker 1: Tom Doak and ask him if he would ever consider,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking taking me on as a as an intern.

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Speaker 1: And that took about three years of letter writing and

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Speaker 1: he finally said, you know what, We're got some projects

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Speaker 1: on the go and in China and a few domestically

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Speaker 1: and and uh just could be the right time. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I jumped on that opportunity. And so I know.

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Speaker 3: I've heard that Tom has a you know, an application

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Speaker 3: process for the internship where you kind of do a design.

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Speaker 3: Did Is that was that the case when you got

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Speaker 3: into the program?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I you know, I remember doing a design. Had

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Speaker 1: it had like some contour contour maps and you do

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Speaker 1: design and but you know, and I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if there was an official application process when I did

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Speaker 1: it. It was more of a you know, Traverse City was

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Speaker 1: you know, driving from out West where I lived to

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Speaker 1: you know, guelf Ontario, which is in Toronto. Basically, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was kind of going through his neighborhood, so I

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Speaker 1: stopped by the office and hang out and introduce myself

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Speaker 1: kind of face to face sort of thing. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I did the application process properly, but

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Speaker 1: it was more of a you know, how's it going.

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Speaker 1: My name's Riley. If he was ever an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: you know, work with you guys, sort of learn from you,

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm very much like that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I do remember some sort of contour map

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Speaker 1: and he came up with a designer. But I remember

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Speaker 1: that was kind of very early and maybe the first

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Speaker 1: time I I contacted him, he had something like that

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Speaker 1: on his website. But yeah, and then yeah, so spent

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Speaker 1: spent a year at him and and the Renaissance guys,

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Speaker 1: which was, you know, outstanding. I did a little a

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Speaker 1: little workout in China with Eric Iverson out there, and

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Speaker 1: but for the most part, you know, I was I

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Speaker 1: was really just looking for the office experience and and

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to learn the business side of the profession.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had enough dozer time and excavator time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, enough golf courses kind of my under

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Speaker 1: my belt as far as construction and implementation. But the

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Speaker 1: one thing that you just have a tough time learning

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Speaker 1: about in this industry is you know, how to write

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Speaker 1: a consulting reporter, you know how to structure a contract

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Speaker 1: or you know, how do you go you know, how

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Speaker 1: do you you know all the kinds of you know,

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Speaker 1: business accounting and you know, structuring a company. And just

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Speaker 1: like there's there's so many things that you know, you

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Speaker 1: just can't learn from a book or school and you

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Speaker 1: can only learn by you know, kind of placing yourself

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Speaker 1: in into a situation or working with someone who's done it.

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Speaker 1: And and Tom was u extremely open and and accommodating

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Speaker 1: and generous. And I spent a lot of time in

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Speaker 1: the Traverse City office helping him with you know, plans,

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Speaker 1: and going on consulting trips with him out to you know,

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Speaker 1: Long Island and you know, golfing golfing with him at

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Speaker 1: Crystal Downs and being able to you know, really have

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Speaker 1: a lot of one on one time with him, and

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Speaker 1: also being you know in the in the den, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, when you know, phone calls are happening and

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out budgets and you know,

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Speaker 1: working on you know, time construction timelines and you know,

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Speaker 1: getting phone calls from from clients and helping with you know,

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Speaker 1: writing up reports and stuff like that. So that was

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Speaker 1: kind of what I was really looking to get into

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Speaker 1: Zoo because as I'm glamorous, as a lot of people

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Speaker 1: pay think that is, that's like that's a hard thing

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Speaker 1: to learn in this industry. And it was so important

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Speaker 1: he and he was so open, and it was a

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Speaker 1: it was a it was a big, you know kind

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Speaker 1: of piece still the gap, so to speak, for all

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Speaker 1: my other kind of education.

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Speaker 3: So I'm curious with Tom, you know, in having spent

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Speaker 3: so much time with Tom, uh, what you think is

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Speaker 3: kind of you know, you know, if you had to

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Speaker 3: look at one thing that he does just extremely well

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Speaker 3: and maybe you know, the best you know of the

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Speaker 3: modern era at one aspect of design, what would you

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Speaker 3: say it is?

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Speaker 1: M hmm, you know, I would say he you know,

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Speaker 1: being he's very mathematical, very analytical too. I would say routing.

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Speaker 1: He's very you know, and I think that's what really

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Speaker 1: interests him in the profession too, is is is the

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Speaker 1: solving or cracking of the puzzle, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: also creating a puzzle at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of the art to the craft of

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Speaker 1: you know, golf course architects. You get this land, and

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Speaker 1: you get this these contours, and you get all these

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Speaker 1: you know, views and constraints and you know, all these

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Speaker 1: all these kind of pieces to a puzzle that you

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Speaker 1: then need to kind of analyze and then and then

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Speaker 1: and then come up with the best solution you know,

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Speaker 1: for the for that piece of land with you know,

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Speaker 1: the intention of you know, you have some constraints, like

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Speaker 1: you know, golf is eighteen holes typically and you know,

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Speaker 1: seven thousand yards is a pretty average number for you

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Speaker 1: know that, and you know you want a variety of

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Speaker 1: part threes and fours, but for the most part, you

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Speaker 1: could put you know, you could route that golf course

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Speaker 1: a million different ways on that one piece of land.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think he really relishes that that

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Speaker 1: kind of challenge. And and you know, working with him

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Speaker 1: on the A for Students project, you know, being able

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Speaker 1: to you know, sit in the office and watch and

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Speaker 1: learn and work with them on how routing of a

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Speaker 1: golf course not in just one direction, but two directions.

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Speaker 1: You know, that was like that was a master's class

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Speaker 1: and routing sort of thing. So you know, he's very

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Speaker 1: you know when it comes to to routing, he's very

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Speaker 1: you know, he's he can like another an example is

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Speaker 1: he's when he's when he's taling up his you know,

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Speaker 1: yardages or you know, wants to see what what the

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Speaker 1: power ends up being. You know, I'm maybe it's just

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Speaker 1: the next generation that pulls out a calculator, but he

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Speaker 1: just looks at it and he can he can just

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Speaker 1: crunch all those numbers and say sixty eight and seventy

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Speaker 1: two yards sort of thing. You're like, okay, I know,

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Speaker 1: and routing is a bit of a mathematical game too,

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Speaker 1: and when you get into the core of it. But

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Speaker 1: I would say that's his you know, what he enjoys

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Speaker 1: doing the most and what he's one of the best

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Speaker 1: of the world.

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Speaker 3: So you've referenced you know, reading books a couple of times,

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Speaker 3: and a question I get all the time is, you know,

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Speaker 3: what are what are your favorite architecture books? And I'm

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Speaker 3: curious what you think are some of the best architecture books,

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Speaker 3: whether it's for a beginner or for somebody that's you know,

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Speaker 3: gotten through all the you know, the introductory materials.

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Speaker 1: There's so many out there now and there's so much

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Speaker 1: resources that you know, and being able to purchase books

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Speaker 1: now so easy and Google an animalst Amazon. So you know,

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Speaker 1: my library is a little bit overgrown, is one way

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Speaker 1: of putting it. But you know, there's one book that

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Speaker 1: for beginners, Like a lot of people ask me the

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Speaker 1: same question, and it's like, well, you don't want to

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Speaker 1: get into you know, too heavy and stuff right out

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Speaker 1: of the gate, because it's kind of you know, probably

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Speaker 1: boring for most people, but you know, to get to

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Speaker 1: get a sense of golf course architecture, and but also

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Speaker 1: have some visuals to kind of go along with it.

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Speaker 1: There's there's a book that there's Jeff Shackelford did it

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Speaker 1: with Michael Miller, the painters for the artists, and it's

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Speaker 1: called The Art of Golf Design, and it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a coffee table book, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: got a lot of good information in there, just kind

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Speaker 1: of has a really nice way of explaining golf course architecture.

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Speaker 1: It's features, it's principles, it's theories, it's you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: and also give some great examples of you know, it

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Speaker 1: in practice. But they also do this cool thing where

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Speaker 1: they take you know, they take images or they try

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Speaker 1: to recreate what the golf course used to look like

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Speaker 1: and then paint it so like you can find like

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Speaker 1: pictures of you know, Pine Valley and you know mid

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty eas and they'll do a you know, a

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Speaker 1: depiction of it. You know, Michael Miller will do a

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Speaker 1: sweet picture of it with you know, paintings and clouds

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Speaker 1: to just animate it and bring it to life. And

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Speaker 1: then Jeff shack but there is like essays on you know,

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Speaker 1: what the you know, some of these finer features of

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Speaker 1: golf course architecture are like you know, temptation, you know,

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Speaker 1: just try to get into it, but not overwhelming. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, anyone that's kind of interested in golf course

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Speaker 1: architecture but doesn't want to pick up a novel, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and also wants to look at some cool pictures that

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Speaker 1: I would say the the art of golf design is

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Speaker 1: a good as a good starter. And then for something

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Speaker 1: that's a little bit heavier. You know one book that

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Speaker 1: I always liked, and it's not really heavier, but it's

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Speaker 1: the Golf has Never Failed Me, The Donald Ross Book.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've if you have that one,

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Speaker 1: if you read it, but.

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Speaker 3: I haven't as I've outgrown my books.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a good one. It's like it's kind

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Speaker 1: of they've taken a bunch of notes they're almost like

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Speaker 1: diary type entries from Donald Ross and just pieced it together.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like an eclectic note book that that

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Speaker 1: of of the of Donald Ross, and and he just

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Speaker 1: talks about just everything really everything from from turf to

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Speaker 1: design to construction to his opinions on things you know,

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Speaker 1: golf related, whether that's you know, attire or mannerisms and

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Speaker 1: it and it's this kind of fascinating little book. It's

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Speaker 1: quick to pick up. You don't have to sink into it,

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Speaker 1: like it's they're all segregated into small little chapters and

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Speaker 1: some of them are only a page long sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I just always like the the way

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Speaker 1: those guys wrote and spoke back in the day, Like

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Speaker 1: they had a way of saying, you know, their quotes

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Speaker 1: are anything that a way of same things in one

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Speaker 1: sentence that you know, in this day and age, it

380
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: seems like we have to use a paragraph to say

381
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: that the same thing. And they just had this this witty

382
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Speaker 1: kind of you know, way of just making their point.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you've come across a lot of them,

384
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Speaker 1: and ye've seen a lot of quotes. They could summarize

385
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: things so beautifully and and and and succinctly. And who knows,

386
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Speaker 1: maybe that's also transcended into their adult course design, that

387
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: the less is more kind of model, Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that they all they had

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Speaker 3: like a good little snarp to him too, you know.

390
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Speaker 3: Where That's something I always like is, you know, reading

391
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Speaker 3: the old quotes and you know, these guys had had

392
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Speaker 3: so much more attitude, and in today's their quote would

393
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Speaker 3: just get mangled and and just you.

394
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Speaker 2: Know, picked apart.

395
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Speaker 3: But back then they could, you know, just they could

396
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Speaker 3: just land the blast things.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, in general, I.

398
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Speaker 3: Think that writing writing short and concise is a lot

399
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 3: harder than writing you know, long. I think it's definitely

400
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 3: an art. So, you know, I think you've got a

401
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 3: really interesting background and unique background that got you into

402
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Speaker 3: the game.

403
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: And you know.

404
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: It, it might not be the typical path to architecture,

405
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: but you know, doing maintenance and learning, you know, learning

406
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 3: about turf and and and having early experience with construction,

407
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: it's had to have helped you a ton. And I

408
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: know that you you are of like the design build nature. Like,

409
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Speaker 3: how much of an advantage do you think your background.

410
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: Has given you in your career?

411
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I guess it's an advantage.

412
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: It's a you know, I certainly rely on it heavily

413
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: when when when doing design work or you know, coming

414
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: up with with with ideas. It's it super helpful to

415
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: have the wherewith all their ability to to not just

416
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: design something, but to know exactly how to achieve it.

417
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: How to actually build it how it you know, what's

418
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: feasible and what's not. I feel like I have a

419
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: pretty good sense. It's very it's very intuitive now, right,

420
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: And I think that's maybe you know, what helps me

421
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: the most is just to be able to understand, you know,

422
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: from having mode greens you know what, you know, what

423
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: the what the limitations of a you know, a greens

424
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: mower is, or what the limitations of a fly mo

425
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: is when it comes to say, maintaining you know, seat faces,

426
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: or you know what the implications of sands splashed up

427
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: on a bunker faces and in a rainy climate and

428
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: having washouts and you know all that stuff. So I

429
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: think it really I think it really does help me actually,

430
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: and I think and I think it's you know, it

431
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: just really helps create a full a bigger picture, a

432
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: fuller picture of the design work at hand, and it

433
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: just helps inform a lot of the design decisions and

434
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: I and I find it's going to definitely help, you know,

435
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: in the future. I'm very thankful and glad that I

436
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,959
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to learn a lot of these, you know,

437
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: from a lot of these seasoned professionals on techniques, whether

438
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: that's you know, you know, understanding how an irrigation head

439
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: is wired to why you know pipe sizes need to

440
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: be a certain size, you know, to get to water pressure,

441
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, efficiently from one side of the site to

442
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: the other, and you know all those kind of all

443
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: those things that perhaps if you were never in the

444
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: trenches doing it, you might not even have an understanding

445
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: on how that works or why. And who knows, maybe

446
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: maybe had you had that kind of background or knowledge,

447
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: you might have designed something slightly different. Not that I'm

448
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: saying no, well, design should definitely be you know, you know,

449
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: form and function and all that debate, but there's definitely

450
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: something something there that's helpful. And I think it just

451
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: for me, it boils down to a bit more of

452
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: an intuitive kind of feel to how golf courses function

453
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: after you've done building.

454
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 2: I imagine that a golf courses.

455
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 3: You know, when you design it, you're kind of designing

456
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: almost like a It's like an animal and where you know,

457
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: all all the person to work together, and you know,

458
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 3: if one of them doesn't work, it never will live

459
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 3: up to what you know it originally was intended for.

460
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know you can also you know, fall

461
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: in the trap of overthinking things, over analyzing them. And

462
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes times mistakes are what breathed life to

463
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: the character of a golf course too. You know, unintended

464
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: mistakes could very well turn to bode well for a

465
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: golf whole or golf course or whatever it might be.

466
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: And and just you know, it's you know, it's not

467
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: like it's a skyscraper or bridge or a highway or

468
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: something you know, something of that's that's yea or anything

469
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: like that, but it's you know, it's a some you know, golf,

470
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a fluid process, and it's

471
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: a living, breathing, you know, entity once you're done with it,

472
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: and it evolves over time. With this, you know, the

473
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: elements and and sometimes trying to you know, the hubrits

474
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: of trying to think that you can figure it all

475
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: out and control that, you know, you might be handcuffing

476
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, the potential of a of a golf course

477
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: or a golf whole by by trying to control all

478
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: those elements. And sometimes you know, and you'll talk to

479
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: anyone in the industry who's been been doing this for

480
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: a while, like sometimes mistakes or unintended you know, things

481
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: that happen on a golf course. Inspired, you know, you'll

482
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: leave it or you get inspired to you know, maybe

483
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: you use that too. You know, we're gonna we're gonna

484
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: shape off of that. You know. Funny sometimes you know,

485
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: things like irrigation blow and if a mainline blows out,

486
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: that carves this huge casm and you know, on the

487
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: side of the fairway and go back to the tea

488
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: and you're like, hey, and this has happened. And I'm

489
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people out there that similar situations

490
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: happened like this. But you know, an irrigation break could

491
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: turn into a cool cross bunker pretty quick.

492
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like almost anything.

493
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: Sometimes your your biggest you know, I make mistakes all

494
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: the time and sometimes they work out. So I know

495
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: you it seems like you're pretty well read, and I'm

496
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: curious with you know what, what Golden Age architects do

497
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: you have you studied the most and kind of have

498
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: the most appreciation for. Maybe maybe some that you know,

499
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: obviously everybody loves Mackenzie, but you know some uh, some

500
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: off the off the beaten path names that uh, you know,

501
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: not every casual golf fan knows.

502
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: Well, uh, that's a that's a tough question to I mean,

503
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: the reason that those guys are so popular is because

504
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: they were you know, they they put a lot of

505
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: their thoughts and theories and principles and and all that

506
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: stuff into writing and and a lot of them were

507
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: quite sounds. I mean, you know, I've taken a lot

508
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: from from different different architects and and and try to

509
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: piece together kind of my own eclectic you know, theories

510
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: and ideas and and and stuff like that. But you know,

511
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: I would say, not that he's obscure by any means,

512
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: but Smiley Thompson up here in Canada as a big,

513
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: big influence for me, especially being a you know, a

514
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: member and next door to the bamp Springs golf course,

515
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: and you know, I haven't seen, seen, and played that,

516
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much my whole life. And you know,

517
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: I would say Stanley Thompson has that had a big influence.

518
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: And I think he's I think he's pretty underrated too.

519
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, if he's just overshadowed by

520
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: the Mackenzies and the Rosses and the Colts and the

521
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: McDonald's and all that. But he, you know, he was

522
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: pretty pretty groundbreaking and his ideas, and you know kind

523
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: of there was a bit of a parallel universe kind

524
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: of happening up here as those guys were, you know,

525
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: finding their stride and starting to really push the profession

526
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: and and you know, discover an experiment and all that.

527
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: He was doing the same thing up here, and and

528
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: he built some amazing golf courses, and you know, he

529
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: thought really deeply about design. He wrote about it. Uh

530
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, for instance, I remember seeing this and I

531
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: don't even know where I've seen it. It's like a

532
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: graph and Stanley Thompson judus graph. This is probably you know,

533
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, and the graph kind of is his attempt

534
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: at explaining ebbs and flow of a round of a routing,

535
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: and how you know, it's kind of like music. How

536
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's a peak, and there's you know,

537
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: there's an introduction and and you know you'll want to

538
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: make it too hard out of the gate sort of thing,

539
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: and you know where to put the parfires in the

540
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: trees so that so that the course, the routing has

541
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: a has a has a flow to it that that

542
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: is harmonious with either the land or the type of golf.

543
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: It's in a golf it or what have you. And

544
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty pretty groundbreaking, not just to

545
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: think about it, but also then to attempt to put

546
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: it into some sort of you know, visuals that he

547
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: could then communicate it to others. And you know, I

548
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: thought that was pretty pretty groundbreaking.

549
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. You know.

550
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: The round is you know, kind of like a song

551
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: where you know, all the great songs have some sort

552
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: of a bill, like you know, it can start out

553
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: strong and then but there's always like a lull or

554
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: you know, some aspect of it. There has to be

555
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: you know, contrasts for a golf course to be great.

556
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: You know, if you know hard every hole being a

557
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: ball buster is nothing anybody wants. But you know, a

558
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: course that's filled with you know, short part four is

559
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 3: also you know, you you want variety and you want

560
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: different things. So it's pretty interesting to think of how

561
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: he you know, kind of tried to come up with

562
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: a formula like a you know, some sort of put

563
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 3: it into context. I'm interested, you know, I I've stumbled

564
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: across this question, and you know, I've been asked it

565
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: a few times. What do you think about the role

566
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: of the first hole of a golf course because it

567
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: seems like, you know, there's differing logic where some people

568
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 3: think it should be you know, a like a warm handshake,

569
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: like I think it was Rainer said that it should be,

570
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: you know, a friendly opening hole. I think Ross was

571
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 3: that belief. But then there are others that think that

572
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: it should be represented of the course to come. And

573
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: you know, you find these you know a lot more

574
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: challenging first holes.

575
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: You know, do you have a thought on that.

576
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's like it's tough to you know,

577
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: paint to paint every golf course with one overriding theory, right, Yes,

578
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: that's you know, as you know, the variety is just

579
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: key in golf. And you know, if you opened every

580
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: golf hole with a warm handshake, then you're getting rid

581
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: of variety, right, So you know there's samily Johnson also

582
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: spoke of it, you know, he was a proponent of

583
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: the part five, you know, starting off and there's there's

584
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: a couple of different ways you can look at it.

585
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: I think I think the one is more of a

586
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: logistics point of view, right, It's it's you don't want

587
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: to have a log jam on your golf course, you know,

588
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: after the first hole, so you don't want to make

589
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: it so for instance, you don't want to make it

590
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: difficult you know, long hole, wu's say, water and hazards

591
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: and opportunity to lose your golf ball, and then follow

592
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: that up with a you know, a par three that's

593
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: notoriously you know three pts. So like right out of

594
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: the gate, you've you've designed a you know, a one

595
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: two punch that is going to start everyone's around slow.

596
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: And so you know that's that has nothing to do

597
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: with anything other than you you know, you've designed you

598
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: can it's inherent now in that golf course, so it

599
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 1: is important. But you know, would just sacrifice a good

600
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: golf hole for the sake of it being you know,

601
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: should you you know, should it be a four, should

602
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: it be a five? Should it be a long five?

603
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: Should it be an easy five? Should it be you

604
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: know all those things. I think it's really site specific.

605
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: But you know, if if you twisted my rubber arm,

606
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: and you know, obviously starting with a par three, not

607
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: that it's not uncomm you know it's uncommon, but it's

608
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: out there. You know, I wouldn't start a golf course

609
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: with a par three. You know, A part four Part

610
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: five I think is preferable. I'm I like the par

611
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: five starting to just get the golfer out into the

612
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: property quicker. And you know, a short five, you know,

613
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 1: gives a guy an opportunity to get an eagle right

614
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: out of the gate. And you know, at the end

615
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: of the day, I'm all about fun golf and the

616
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: experience of golf, and and if someone can start their

617
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: round with a with a birdie, what's more fun than that.

618
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I want I want to talk a little

619
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 4: bit about your you and Keith Reb's project down at

620
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 4: winter Park where you guys teamed up to do each

621
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 4: of your first solo work, as I believe, and you

622
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 4: took you know, basically a municipal nine whole course.

623
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 3: It's it's I went and played it a couple of

624
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: months ago.

625
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 2: It's a great, great little course.

626
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: It's you know, shorts twenty four hundred yards, but you

627
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: you really gave it a big facelift, and I think

628
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: it's a it serves as a good model for you know,

629
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 3: the future of municipal golf with you know, interesting green

630
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 3: complexes and and great bunkering work. But I'm curious about

631
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 3: you know, venturing off and doing you know, what was

632
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: the thing that you know you learned most from doing

633
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 3: something on your own for the first time.

634
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: Hmm, you know it was he learned a lot, You

635
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: learned a lot. It's not I'd just say one thing.

636
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're quite lucky. I mean, we we

637
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: surrounded ourselves with the right team, which I think you know,

638
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: we kind of always knew that was critical for any

639
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: project is guys that yeah, that you bring on to it.

640
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: So you know, we'd learned that from other other projects thankfully,

641
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: so that so we didn't make any mistakes with that.

642
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone that was involved in that project was

643
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: the right guy for the job. And we just had

644
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: such a good time building it, you know, I would

645
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,439
Speaker 1: say working and and and also being a foreigner doing

646
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: working on that project, right, there was a there was

647
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: another level you know, added to it for for me

648
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: at least, but navigating the municipal I don't know if

649
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: geocracy is the right word, but just the corridors of

650
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: of getting pert a project like this off the ground.

651
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: So everything from you know, permitting approvals, you know, having

652
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: to having to explain and and come up with designs

653
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: to help communicate to people that are in you know,

654
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: the municipal government who are not necessarily golfers and look

655
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: at this as just a you know, an infrastructure type project, right.

656
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: So there, so it's not like you're dealing with a

657
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: client who is all about golf and loves golf and

658
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: his golf and understand, you know, you had to almost

659
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: you almost had to explain very simple ideas that you

660
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: almost assume most people would would would know. But when

661
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: you're working with a municipality, I mean they're working on

662
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: all sorts of different projects, right, and they've created a

663
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: committee to look at the golf course, right, just like

664
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: they created a committee to you know, revitalize the museum

665
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: or the library. Right. It's not necessarily these people are

666
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: are you know, golf fanatics. So you know, navigating you

667
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: know the municipal ropes, avenues or whatever you want to

668
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: call it, and also educating the people who were ultimately

669
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: hiring us on why we were doing things. I would

670
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: say that was you know the biggest thing we learned.

671
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: And you know, everything from like even things like insurance

672
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: and bonding. You know, like this the very unglamorous part

673
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: of the of this industry or this profession is you know,

674
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: all that stuff matters, and you know, we had to

675
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: we had to learn it and learn it quick and

676
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: there was no no room to kind of stumble on something.

677
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: So that was a that was a quick quick learn

678
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: for sure.

679
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: What what would you say about that project?

680
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 3: Were you most proud of walking away, whether it's a

681
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: you know, a specific feature or you know, just you know,

682
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: something that you know occurred while you guys were on site.

683
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: I would say it was the just teamwork and and

684
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,479
Speaker 1: and how we did it. I mean, you know, I'm

685
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: sure Keith told you the story about how we you know,

686
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: had everything lined up ready to go and you know,

687
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: our D five somehow turned into a D three and

688
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: so they delivered there. We were completely underpowered. So I

689
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: mean the fact that you know, you just you just

690
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, spare down and get it done and and

691
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: work through the problems and problem solved, and and the

692
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: fact that we were able to do what we did

693
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,479
Speaker 1: out there with a you know, essentially a D three,

694
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: a little excavator, tractor trailer, and a skid you know,

695
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: those were those were I think for all of us.

696
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: It was the fact that we were able to do

697
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: it was so little I think was you know, and

698
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: that was what we set out to do, right. We

699
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to overcomplicated or make a big production out

700
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: of it. We just wanted to you know, get in there,

701
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: get into get into the sandbox, so to speak, and

702
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: start start creating fun, interesting golf. And you know, when

703
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: when we when we completed it and we walked away,

704
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: I feel like we achieved achieve that goal. So that

705
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: was that was the most I think rewarding aspect of

706
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: that project.

707
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it.

708
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 3: I'd recommend everybody that is in Orlando, you know, especially

709
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 3: if you're down there for business, like, it's great to

710
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 3: go out there and play as the sun's going down.

711
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: You can get around in you know, an hour and

712
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: twenty minutes.

713
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: And I think that's so key too, right. It's affordable,

714
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: it's not going to cost you an arm in a leg.

715
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: It's inclusive. You can just show up. You don't have

716
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: to necessarily plan in advance or make tea times. You know,

717
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: they're they're very combinating and and you know, it's it's

718
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: just fun urban golf. It's it's uh, you know and

719
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: one and on the same kind of thread. One of

720
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: the more rewarding things too, is when we were you know,

721
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: going back there and hanging out on the patio. I

722
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: just loved sitting there and watching people either putt on

723
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 1: nine or teeming off on one. And I remember seeing

724
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: a group of seniors, they must have been in their eighties,

725
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,959
Speaker 1: foursome heckling each other on the first tee and hitting

726
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,959
Speaker 1: it down and taking off and starting their round. And

727
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: right behind them was a he must have been like

728
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: four maybe five, his first time on a golf course

729
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: with his dad, and and the dad was telling us

730
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: that he'd been you know, hitting balls on the range

731
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: for you know, practicing for this moment, and and and

732
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: the kid was his first time on a on a

733
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote real size golf course, is what

734
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: he is, what the kid said, and his dad caddied

735
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: for him. And so so now you have this, you know,

736
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: four year old or five year old following a foursome

737
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: of eighty five year olds and everything in between. And

738
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: each each one of them are you know, experiencinging the

739
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: golf course and having a you know, enjoying it on

740
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: their own level, which I think for us was was

741
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: very rewarding.

742
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can only imagine it's got to be really

743
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 3: cool just to watch people play.

744
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: All that, like your course and everything.

745
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: So I'm curious, uh, you know, with the you know,

746
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 3: as you're starting to build your you know, your individual

747
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 3: design career, what what would you say if you could,

748
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 3: you know, what.

749
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: Would be a dream project?

750
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: You know, whether it be a particular area or a

751
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: particular type of course, you.

752
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: Know, what what would you most want to build?

753
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: Uh, that's an easy one for me. I'm I'm I

754
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: love surfing, traveled traveled quite a bit surfing, and uh,

755
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's something, there's something connected, you know,

756
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: whether it's a spiritual thing or or just the same

757
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: type of I don't know, the surfing and golfing, I

758
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: guess is what I'm trying to say. I have similar

759
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: threats to connect and I would love to do a

760
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: my dream my dream project and anyone that knows, you know,

761
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: to talk about this all the time is my surf

762
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: and turf resort. I call it. It's a I want

763
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: to I want to find a surf break somewhere in

764
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: the world that also on the shore has just the

765
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 1: perfect landscape for for golf, and it'd be cool to

766
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: combine a you know, Cabot band in style golf resort

767
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: where it's about just a golf right, not about the

768
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: amenities and all that, but just a great piece of

769
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: golf golfing terrain. But also there's a surf break and

770
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: the clubhouse acts as the clubhouse for both the surfing

771
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: people that are surfing and the people that are golfing.

772
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: And you know, when there's no waves and it's not

773
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: pumping out out there, you can go right, but when

774
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: the waves pick up, everyone kind of goes to the

775
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: surf breaks. You kind of have, you know, two amenities

776
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: at this one resort. And I think if partnering up

777
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: with a you know, a professional surfer or something like

778
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: that to kind of get this off the ground would

779
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: be a dream job. For sure. It would be you know,

780
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: I think it'd be a hit because I think I

781
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of you know, commonality between surfing

782
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: and golfing, and I think exploring that with some sort

783
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: of surf and turf resort, uh, I think it would

784
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: be would be pretty fun.

785
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's uh. I have never surfed, but I've always

786
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 3: been curious and wanted to. So you know, you'd need

787
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 3: to have like somebody there to teach beginners like.

788
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: Myself, exactly, and same with same with the surfers that

789
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: can surf and want to go need less hoping. Every

790
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: year I watched the cow you know, the what is

791
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: it not high on day anymore? Whatever that tournament is

792
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: now the Champions tournament at Kapalua. Just watching those kind

793
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: of surfing in the and the whales breaching and and

794
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. It's uh. I always I

795
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: always get reinspired every year after after watching that golf

796
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: tournament as it's snowing outside my I feel here.

797
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 3: I feel like the hang at that spot would be

798
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: you know, unparallel. It would just be the most laid back,

799
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 3: you know, low key, no care in the world.

800
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: Kind of place. That's it exactly. So I'd love to

801
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: hear a little bit about what you're working.

802
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 3: On these days now that you got Winter Park done,

803
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 3: What's what's in the hopper and what what are you

804
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 3: working on now?

805
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: Well, I've got a couple of irons in the fire

806
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: with potential projects and some some other projects that were

807
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: you know, still continuing to work on. But now I

808
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 1: was just hired by golf club out in Vancouver called

809
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: Point Great and so I'll be there consulting architect and

810
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: they want to go forward with a long range master

811
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: plan and kind of reassess their their club and take

812
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,479
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of take a look a fresh

813
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: look at it, right They they they want to take

814
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: a look at what their character is or what their

815
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: genre is, what their identity is, and you know, there's

816
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: some trees that need to be dressed, and you know

817
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: just overall just kind of starting from from the ground floor.

818
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be working with them, uh to

819
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: help them kind of achieve their goals. And so I'm

820
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 1: really looking forward to that as it's somewhat close to

821
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: my home and you know, as I as I get

822
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: more into the project, the more I'm learning about the

823
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: history of Point Grant. It's it's quite fascinating with the

824
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: connection that they have, you know, Saint Andrews and the

825
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: Golden Adra of the nineteen twenties course, and it was

826
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: laid out or designed by a golfer named David Ayton,

827
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: who is you know, part of this golfing family from

828
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: Saint Andrews. And we discussed this yesterday when his brothers

829
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: ended up in Chicago golfing there and David ended up

830
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: going to Vancouver, and you know, they ended up playing

831
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: an exhibition match against you Harden Smith and Walter Hagen

832
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: and just some really fascinating, uh you know, tidbits of

833
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: information that I'm that I'm collecting right now and I'm

834
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: starting to piece together and and the more I discovered

835
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: a kind of more more interesting I get. So so yeah,

836
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about working with with Point Gray and

837
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: and exploring a bit more on this. David Ayton the

838
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: guy was and why he came out to Vancouver and

839
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: designed a golf cour m hm.

840
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: So, you know, with with consulting on a project, you know,

841
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: it's it's a little different than getting to you know,

842
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 3: sink your teeth in. How do you approach kind of uh,

843
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: you know, conveying information and just do you is it?

844
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: You know, do you have like a list of things

845
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 3: that you want to do and and you kind of

846
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 3: you know, go one by one, like you know, how

847
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 3: do you lay out that master plan for a consulting

848
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 3: word like this?

849
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: Well, it's I mean, yeah, the consulting is just the

850
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: beginning part, right, But I'm I'm a huge believer in

851
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: the design process and how that you know, shape informs

852
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: your decisions. Basically, it's, uh, you know, the last thing

853
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: I want to do is come to the club like, yeah,

854
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: I've seen I've seen a feature that looked really cool

855
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: and New York was put it here, right, Like, it's

856
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: not about it's not about me, It's not about my

857
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: chase or you know, because golf is you know, so

858
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: subjective that it's you know, there's no right or wrong answer.

859
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: There's only you know, I think better and best sort

860
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: of thing as far as an answer goes. But you know,

861
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: I'm a huge believer in the design process, you know,

862
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: evidence based design. You know, my theory is, you know,

863
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: a well researched project basically just designs itself. Right. So

864
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: the first thing I do is just kind of a

865
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: mass and collect as much information and data and history

866
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: and you know, just take a look at what's there,

867
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, and then and then get their wishless the

868
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: client's wish lists basically, and say well, what do you

869
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: what do you guys want? Right? And a lot of times,

870
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, what it is that they that they thought

871
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: they want isn't isn't what they wanted, right, So I

872
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: don't necessarily ask them what they want. I just kind

873
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: of asked who's it for? Right, And why why do

874
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: you want it for them? And then I'll try to

875
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: figure that out, try to get a little bit deeper

876
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: into the in the subject for them, and and kind

877
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: of let that guide all my decision making. So you

878
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: kind of get all your you know, you get goals

879
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: and objectives and and you kind of marry that with

880
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: your site analysis and your site inventory and and and

881
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: then you pull from pull from your own experience and

882
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: what you've seen and built and and and then try

883
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: to marry all those together into a concept design. And hopefully,

884
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: if you've done your your research and you got your

885
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: goals and objectives were all right, your concept design should

886
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:35,919
Speaker 1: address the club's needs or desires and and then some

887
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So that's kind of where I started basically,

888
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: And that comes back down to learning that stuff from

889
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: you know. The design process is the same for landscape architecture,

890
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: is the same for you know, skyscraper architecture, you know,

891
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: or any sort of designing is is kind of you know,

892
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 1: the core of it is always comes from a design process,

893
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: because that's that's kind of where you get into the

894
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: the soul of a project and you learn, you know,

895
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: why why are we doing this? Right? Yeah? It's not

896
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: a not an easy question always answer.

897
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

898
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 3: So we got we got a lot of great Twitter

899
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 3: questions and I wanted to touch on those on a few

900
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: of them here. And I think the first one I

901
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 3: thought was really interesting. I forgot to write down the

902
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 3: person who asked us the name. Uh would destination golf

903
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 3: work in the Canadian sand hills like it does in

904
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 3: Nebraska sand Valley area?

905
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: I mean, let me grab my crystal ball here. Would

906
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: the destination golf work in the sand hills? I don't know,

907
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: Like it's one of those things where good you know,

908
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: who would have thought that the sand hills you know

909
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: in Nebraska would have worked? Right? It's a it's a

910
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: very it was a very unlikely story that changed golf

911
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: course design and architecture and to eat those quite substantially.

912
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: So it's hard to say no. I think you'd have

913
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: to have the right person backing it, you know, the

914
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: other factors. And I don't know if this is a

915
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but just

916
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 1: the seasonality, you know, we're just we're just that much colder,

917
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: and you know there are seasons just that much shorter,

918
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 1: and so it would be a you know, it would

919
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: be a tough kind of question from a financial point

920
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: of view, you know, if that's kind of the angle

921
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: that the question was was a more of a you know, financially,

922
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: is it feasible or is it you know, if you're

923
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: a billionaire and you want to do it, and you

924
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: just want to cool golf course and making money is

925
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: not the objective, then then yeah, it's definitely definitely feasible,

926
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: and then everything to being a perfect place for for golf,

927
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: except for the fact that there's low population and harsh,

928
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 1: harsh climate, so you know, the isolation in the weather

929
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: is are kind of the two factors. But you know,

930
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: it's hard question to answer. I would say soap, but

931
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: it depends what your criteria are.

932
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I imagine it have to be built, and you know,

933
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 3: if you were looking to make money, and it'd have

934
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 3: to be very minimal and in pure golf and and

935
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 3: built in a way that keeps all the costs really down.

936
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe, but I mean it's like things like even

937
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 1: just bringing power out to you know, like if you're

938
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: isolated and you know, how do you how do you

939
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: get power to your resort? Right it's water or even

940
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: road water, road access like all that kind of stuff is.

941
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: You know, I don't not necessarily think the golf is

942
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: the expensive parts. The operating of the operations of the

943
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: of the club would be I think the most challenging thing.

944
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you got to think of things like, Okay,

945
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: we've got this beautiful piece of land, it's sand. We

946
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: can sculpt this, no no problem. Build a golf course,

947
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, for very reasonable price. But then it's like,

948
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 1: who's going to maintain it?

949
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: M hyah?

950
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: Who lives out there? You know? Where you get staff,

951
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: where they stay right? So that's there's as a lot

952
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions.

953
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 3: You gotta you gotta find somebody that loves golf but

954
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: also loves cold weather. It's you know, that'd be probably

955
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 3: the tough tough thing to find. And isolation.

956
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to see that job posting.

957
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love love a cold weather.

958
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: We got a job for.

959
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 3: You and by myself for nine months.

960
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: Of the year. Yeah. Do you like being alone in

961
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: the dark?

962
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: So Patrick Law wants to know what is the most

963
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: overlooked feature on a golf course in your opinion?

964
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: Overlooked feature in a golf course, I would say, you know,

965
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: as weird as this might sound, you know, I would

966
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: say greens. I'd say a lot of guys just don't

967
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: put enough time into really sculpting or crafting interesting greens, right.

968
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's an interesting thing because having built many

969
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: greens for many different people, you know, you kind of

970
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: learn a lot of different you know, techniques or reasons

971
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: or theories and and you know what have you regarding

972
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, putting services and the purpose. And I feel

973
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: like a lot of golf courses and this might just

974
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: be a you know, a result of things is like

975
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: computer aided design, and you know, the form follows function,

976
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: which is probably more of what it is, you know,

977
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: due to drainage, you know, does screens just have this

978
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: kind of typical if we put some undulation in it,

979
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: you know, we have how this looks like a shape

980
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: like a potato chip, you know, and we got three

981
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: exits right for water to drain off of it, and

982
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, make sure that we're sloping that towards the

983
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: golfer so it receives the golf ball. And then that's it, right,

984
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: That's all they really put into it. And you know,

985
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: for me, some of the most interesting aspects of seeing

986
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: cool golf courses around the world. Socially quirky golf courses

987
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: is how non typical their putting surfaces are, and how

988
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: how much how varied they are, and how much variety

989
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: is in them. And also you know how you couldn't

990
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: build some of those things today because people would say,

991
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how am I supposed to

992
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: maintain that or where you know, you can't have one

993
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: exit for water and you know you can't you can't

994
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: have it sloping away from the golfer or you know,

995
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 1: whatever whatever it is. But for me, that's kind of

996
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: the that's the essence of a good golf courses is

997
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: an interesting, perplexing set of greens that make me really, uh,

998
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: played the course differently the second time I play it,

999
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: after I learned you know, where to be, where not

1000
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: to be, and all those kind of things. So I

1001
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: think a lot of guys just don't really put the

1002
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: the thought into the greens as much as as perhaps

1003
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: they used to, or maybe back in the day it

1004
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: was less of a there's less criteria and it was

1005
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: a bit more freehand, and you know, the you know,

1006
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: functions very important, But to design a green based on

1007
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: drainage parameters well, you're going to get a green that

1008
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: looks like designed by drainers parameter right, So it's a

1009
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: tough it's a tough one. But I would say I

1010
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: would say greens if if I had to choose one

1011
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: one element on a golf course, I think is you know,

1012
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: critical to the sport. But it's also not getting enough thoughts.

1013
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's interesting. Somebody once said to me, and

1014
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 3: I'll never forget it. They asked me, have you ever

1015
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 3: played a great hole that doesn't have a great green?

1016
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,479
Speaker 3: And it's it's almost impossible to think. So I mean, yeah,

1017
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: it's yeah, it's it's hard to do. And you know,

1018
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 3: like just like you said, you know, if you're if

1019
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 3: you're designing just for for draining, it's like you you

1020
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 3: risk the variety.

1021
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: Because I was while you were talking, I was thinking

1022
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: through you know, my course.

1023
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 3: I think might have the best greens in all of Chicago,

1024
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 3: and uh, you know it probably you know, some of

1025
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 3: the best in the world. And and I thought, you know,

1026
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 3: the first green slopes away from.

1027
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 2: You, the the.

1028
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 3: Second green slow, it has a good big back to

1029
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 3: back to front slope. The next green has a huge

1030
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 3: right to left slope. You know, the next green is

1031
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 3: small and narrow and has this left to right slope

1032
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 3: and there's just all this variety and they're simple greens,

1033
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: but you know, no greens like another one on the

1034
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 3: golf course, and it's just you know, that course was

1035
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 3: built in you know, nineteen hundred or eighteen ninety.

1036
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: Nine, Yes, and you and you notice it too when

1037
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: you're playing it, like that's that's the one thing. You know,

1038
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: my friends, when I was out there's about a month ago,

1039
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: I was out on the West coast there and I

1040
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: would played passa tempo and you know, I've heard obviously

1041
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: read a lot about it and heard, you know, amazing

1042
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: things about the greens. But man, those greens are so good.

1043
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: They're so good. They're so interesting. There's so much variety,

1044
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: and you know, and what I liked about, you know,

1045
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: what was done there. What Mackenzie did there was he

1046
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: took the green shape was kind of dictated by where

1047
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: it sat on the land sort of thing. So you know,

1048
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,959
Speaker 1: the whole six thousand square foot oval thing just does

1049
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: not apply to there, because there's there's some narrow ones

1050
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: that kind of kind of snake or zigzag or kind

1051
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 1: of have an S shape. Because or even if it's

1052
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, super wide but not deep, right, it's a

1053
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: you know, and it was all a product of him

1054
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: fitting a green into a particular area, but then using

1055
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: that area as the inspiration for what the green does

1056
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: sort of thing, you know. So it's kind of like

1057
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: you went, he's just really masterfully put some amazing green

1058
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: and they just fit the site so well. And I think,

1059
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: you know, a place like that, I think wouldn't be

1060
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: nearly wouldn't be half the golf course without the greens

1061
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: that they're blessed with. So I think, you know, I think,

1062
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: I think really you know, looking at greens from different perspectives,

1063
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, like you mentioned, you know, whether it's the

1064
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: slope that sloping towards you or left or right right,

1065
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: the left back to the front, you know, that kind of thing,

1066
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: but also the shape of the green right the the

1067
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's also something that's overlooked. And

1068
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I may, I don't know. I

1069
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: don't know why. Maybe it's has something to do with

1070
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: it's easier to mow with a triplex, or it's the

1071
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: most economical to build, or it's a it's a standard

1072
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: that somehow seeped into the work golf, construction or design world.

1073
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm I'm a huge fan of of

1074
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: oddly shaped greens like yeah, you know, shaped in the

1075
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: like an L or an S or you know an e.

1076
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: You know, like the E green. You know, those are

1077
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 1: the kinds of greens that I find the most fascinating.

1078
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: And you know, pass the tempoint I think just did

1079
01:03:59,200 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: it beautifully.

1080
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's on my bucket list of places to go see.

1081
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 3: So Ellie Phillip wants to know your top three Stanley

1082
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 3: Taps of Courses Man of the Hour.

1083
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I have to go with Damps as number one.

1084
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: You know, I've been very lucky to the golf that

1085
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: many times, and every time I golf that I just

1086
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: learned something new about about the place.

1087
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 2: And is that is that the course that you started

1088
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 2: working maintenance on?

1089
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: No is, I worked maintenance at Stuart Creek, which was

1090
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, that was actually the golf course that I

1091
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: helped survey. It's kind of weird. I've kind of surveyed,

1092
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: then helped grow it in and then then maintained it

1093
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 1: started Stanley Thompson, Yeah, No, I have to go with Damp.

1094
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: It's it's timeless. It's it's obviously the you know, the

1095
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: sea is spectacular. But you know, the only shame is

1096
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: the routing has kind of been named with UH been

1097
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: introducing the new clubhouse back in the in the eighties,

1098
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: I think it was their late seventies or now it

1099
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: was early eighties, and they kind of injected the clubhouse

1100
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: on the fourth hole, which should have been the fourth hole,

1101
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: which is now first. And this goes back to our

1102
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: conversation about flow ebbs and flow kind of the you know,

1103
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: the how the course plays from a from a golfer's

1104
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: experience perspective. They've they've kind of they've changed that. They've

1105
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: altered it. The DNA of the of the routing has

1106
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 1: been altered. And you noticed it right because it was

1107
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: a it was a nine out nine in routing, which

1108
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: was super cool for you know, a mountain course. But

1109
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, the Devil's culturing was kind of at the

1110
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: end of the you know, as you at the turnpoint

1111
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: and you know, it was an anticipation factor and you know,

1112
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: there's there's all these kind of emotions play that he

1113
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: did so well. And it's the opening tea shot over

1114
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: Spray River from on top of this cliff and it's

1115
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: just like, man, it would have been such a good

1116
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: golf course when it had first opened back you know,

1117
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: back in the day. So I'm a huge fan Springs fan.

1118
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about it. Highland Link definitely,

1119
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: second h once again, the routing is phenomenal. Sammy Thompson

1120
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: I thought was a genius when it came to that,

1121
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: and he was able to get you, you know, from

1122
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: the coast up into the hills, up into the mountains,

1123
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: into the valleys and then back down to the coast.

1124
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a lot of elevation that you

1125
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: climb but you just don't notice it. And some fantastic

1126
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: golf holes, some fantastic fairway conters. I love the fairway

1127
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: concuring out there. Just the old world, rustic dimple, you know,

1128
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: just just has so much character, and so does you

1129
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: know kpe Branton in general. So it's like it's it

1130
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: just fits its environment, just feel things. And then I

1131
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: would say, I go with Jasper, had to go with

1132
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 1: the local the local courses, you know. I Jasper is

1133
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: just such as it's a little bit different than Barff.

1134
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't have the mountains, just looming over you, and

1135
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like you can hit your golf ball

1136
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 1: off the cliffs sort of thing. But it just has

1137
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: this just real subtle and artfully routed and interesting golf

1138
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 1: holes that it's just it's just pleasant. Right. So I

1139
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 1: would say those are my three, but I mean there's

1140
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: more obscure. What I mean, Capilano fantastic. They will play

1141
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: that a week or two ago, and once again the

1142
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: routing phenomenally is able to get you all the way

1143
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: down down the hill. You got these just cool you know,

1144
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: it's kind of like an urban, urban kind of feel

1145
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: to it when you're looking at the skyline of Vancouver

1146
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 1: and it's got these big, old, you know, stumps that

1147
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: are kind of scattered everywhere from when they built the place,

1148
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: and it's got a neat character to it. But one

1149
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: other Stanley Thompson track. Oh, there's a there's a course

1150
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 1: in Canora, which is in Ontario, right on the Manitoba

1151
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: Ontario border, and it's a Stanley Thompson track and it's, uh,

1152
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 1: you know, I like to think it's it's kind of

1153
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: like Yale. You know, it's got a built on the rock, right,

1154
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: and they weren't able to last all the rock away,

1155
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 1: and so they kind of just followed the contours of

1156
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:32,759
Speaker 1: the of the bedrock and had some really cool, bold, bold,

1157
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: big undulations, big hog back plat you know, bear ways

1158
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: and just greens tucked tucked around the property and just

1159
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 1: has this really neat feel to it. And I don't

1160
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: think a lot of people played played it, but you know,

1161
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: Canor Golf Club is whenever I'm out in that area.

1162
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of one of bat Mel versus the

1163
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: first two golf courses that I go play a lot

1164
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: of good Stanley Thompson tracks up here.

1165
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, for Americans, there's a I know, Clevel

1166
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: and it's got a public access one called Sleepy Hollow.

1167
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 3: I think Stanley Thompson's. Uh, it's supposed to be really good.

1168
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 3: And I've actually heard that there's a Stanley Thompson down

1169
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 3: in Florida.

1170
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 2: In like the Jacksonville area that refuses to.

1171
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 3: You know, it keeps saying it's a Donald Ross and

1172
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 3: not a Stanley Thompson because they think the value of

1173
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 3: having a Ross is greater than having a Thompson, even

1174
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 3: though it would be a rarity. And and in the

1175
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 3: US to have a Stanley Thompson designed golf course.

1176
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: So there's a bunch actually in the Ohio area. Yeah,

1177
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: I think there's several.

1178
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,879
Speaker 3: It's uh yeah, we might need to do a profile

1179
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 3: on him one of these days.

1180
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. It's a fascinating character. I mean, like

1181
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: all these guys, as you read more and more about them,

1182
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 1: but he was there, you know, whiskey, Drinkin's cigars smoking,

1183
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 1: died penniless, but you know, left was just a remarkable

1184
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: human who you know, pioneered a lot of things in

1185
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:10,759
Speaker 1: golf course architecture that I think, you know, perhaps get overlooks.

1186
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: That would be an interesting profile for you.

1187
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's also so cool that he was

1188
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 3: He grew up caddying at Toronto Golf Club, which was

1189
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 3: like Harry Colt's first Canadian design and you know, Canada's

1190
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 3: first like pre eminent golf course.

1191
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 1: It makes you wonder, like I've always wondered about that

1192
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: because who you know, there was no precedence back then

1193
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: really for routing. I mean you could go over to

1194
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: the British Isles and that's where all those guys kind

1195
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: of learned, you know, some of the craft, but you know,

1196
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,719
Speaker 1: there was nothing really on routing, right. I mean Colt

1197
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 1: wrote about routing and he kind of pioneered a lot

1198
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: of the you know, returning nine and you know the

1199
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: way you can triangulate and loop golf holes and just

1200
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: of smart routing and why. But you know, makes you

1201
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: wonder Stanley met Colt at any point and talks because

1202
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 1: I mean, how does someone go about, you know, being

1203
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 1: new to a brand new industry right, let alone new

1204
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: to a profession, but there was no no one else

1205
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: doing it, and he gets so many things right out

1206
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: of the gate, especially with routing right to wonder where

1207
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: he picked if maybe he was just antural on it

1208
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:33,719
Speaker 1: and is a very intuitive thing for him, or maybe

1209
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: he had some contact with someone like Colt well you know,

1210
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: in Toronto, and uh, the I don't know, maybe I'm

1211
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 1: just I'm just conspiracy theory right now, But I don't know.

1212
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 1: That's always boggled me how someone comes out of the

1213
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 1: gate and gets so much right without you know, ever

1214
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: having the failures to learn off of right he did.

1215
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 1: He did a lot of good golf courses early on

1216
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: in his career and some some major ones too, you

1217
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 1: know where he uh really pioneered things.

1218
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 2: I mean, you got.

1219
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 3: You have to think of the bare minimum that he

1220
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 3: looked at Toronto Golf and and used so much of

1221
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 3: what he learned from walking around there in his first design,

1222
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 3: like at the very least, and you have.

1223
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 2: To imagine, you know, you could have definitely foreseen him.

1224
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:26,600
Speaker 3: You know you maybe he can for Colt and you

1225
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,759
Speaker 3: know they talked to you know, who knows.

1226
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 1: There's a who knows.

1227
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a I.

1228
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 1: Mean he was a good golfer here. That helped. But

1229
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I don't necessarily think being a

1230
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 1: good golfer necessarily translates into knowing how to route a

1231
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:42,759
Speaker 1: golf course.

1232
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I wouldn't know what how I was doing

1233
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 3: if I handed me a topography man.

1234
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 2: So hey, you know you've been more than generously at

1235
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 2: your time. We will get you out of here.

1236
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 3: On h on our our overrated underrated. It's uh, you know,

1237
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 3: a Friday podcast tradition here. So we've got we've got

1238
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 3: a couple of teed up for okay, uh playoff hockey.

1239
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: Oh underrated? Who's hockey on the planet after World Genius?

1240
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: So who's your who's your horse in the race this year?

1241
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: Oh, Edmonton's going all the way all the way after

1242
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,759
Speaker 1: Calgary's just pointing lost last night. I am now fully

1243
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: fully on Edmonton and a huge fan of with David

1244
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:40,679
Speaker 1: and I just love the the you know, relentless young,

1245
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 1: the young guns. You know, Edmonton is just such a

1246
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, every shift type team and you know, no

1247
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: giving up and you know, all all of the stuff

1248
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: I love about hockey, Edmonton's doing right now. So in

1249
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: playoff hockey, it just accentuates all that. So yeah, it's

1250
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:04,560
Speaker 1: it's it's Canada's Canada's year. This year is a disappointing

1251
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 1: one last year not having anyone in there, but this

1252
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 1: year we got we got a few teams that could

1253
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: go all the way.

1254
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Edmonton's a lot like my black Hawks

1255
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 3: ten years ago. You know, lots of young talent and

1256
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 3: hungry talent, and you know, they just go at it,

1257
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 3: hop hoping for a miracle for my Hawks that are

1258
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 3: now down three as.

1259
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: If you're gonna need one.

1260
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they if any team can do it, they can.

1261
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 3: But we'll see template holes.

1262
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: And I uh, it's bizarre. I don't know, I've never

1263
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 1: heard so much conversations about template holes than I have

1264
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: in the last five years. So I'm gonna have to

1265
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: go with overrated just because it's you know, it's not

1266
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of old news. I mean, they're

1267
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: they're they're fundamentally they're sound for golf, you know, that's

1268
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: why they you know, so prolific in architecture. But you know,

1269
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: I think I think taking template holes and using them

1270
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:17,719
Speaker 1: as inspiration and adopting them and tweaking them, I think

1271
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: I think that's the Yeah, I think that's the important

1272
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: thing of template holes, not necessarily replicating them, if you

1273
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's so I don't know, I'm

1274
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: gonna go overrated. Yeah.

1275
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 2: I like the idea of the twist.

1276
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 3: You know, I came up I was writing something about

1277
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 3: the double plateau, and I came up with an idea

1278
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 3: for one, as I called the double plat bowl.

1279
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 2: Where you've got you've.

1280
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 3: Got the front to you know, you've got the one

1281
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 3: at ground level, and then you've got the one raised

1282
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 3: on the left or whatever. You could flip flop those,

1283
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 3: but then the back one is a punch bowl.

1284
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I did for the uh for

1285
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 1: the uh Leedle Prize. Basically, the the punch bowl was

1286
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 1: obscured by a big blowpunker on the left, but then

1287
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: on the right you had full full visual. But it

1288
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: was a tricky pot to get it back there because

1289
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: of the because of the plateau. You had to you

1290
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 1: had to choose whether you're going to kind of put

1291
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: the faith in your in your iron shot and you

1292
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 1: kind of you know, landed in the punch bowl and

1293
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 1: and and you know a bit of a bit of

1294
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 1: a throwback to you know, the the Dell Hole in

1295
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,560
Speaker 1: Ireland sort of thing where you just swing it and

1296
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: the anticipation of going around to see where it actually is,

1297
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, or you or you played it kind of

1298
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: more strategically where you uh, you know, knock your ball,

1299
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: uh and and you keep it in sight and then

1300
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 1: you put the premium on your on your lag putt

1301
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: sort of things.

1302
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, or you could run it in there, you know,

1303
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,799
Speaker 3: it'd be cool. It's and then you use that bunker

1304
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 3: slope right as the kind of.

1305
01:16:58,120 --> 01:16:58,919
Speaker 2: Great mind.

1306
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 1: Nature nature did a similar thing. What you're talking about

1307
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: is called a platypus. Platypus cramming these two things together,

1308
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,560
Speaker 1: building a chimera of up sorts.

1309
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously, I haven't thought about a platypus since like

1310
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 3: grade school.

1311
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 2: Uh so, uh, we're gonna go with a Canadian hero here,

1312
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 2: Mike Weird.

1313
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: Oh man, you know winning the Masters. H you know,

1314
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: I think for for and anyone that's one of the Masters,

1315
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 1: I think you have to say that it made an

1316
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: impact on golf. So and he certainly did up here

1317
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: in Canada. I mean, Canada doesn't really have any megastar

1318
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: is what you call it PGA golf? Is that you

1319
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 1: know a guy that we've all kind of we don't

1320
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: have our Rory Opera Roy, you know. Yeah, so he

1321
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: was kind of that, I suppose, and I would say,

1322
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 1: I would say underrated. I mean he was when his

1323
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: prime he was good.

1324
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think there there has to be,

1325
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 3: like you see, there's a.

1326
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 2: Lot of great Canadian players. Now, I asked a Canadian.

1327
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 3: I had a Canadian on my last podcast who was

1328
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 3: a PGA tour writer, Adam Starson, and he and I

1329
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 3: asked him if he if he thought there was a

1330
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 3: Mic Weir effect in Canada, and he said he thinks.

1331
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 2: So.

1332
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 3: I think I think he's I think he meant a

1333
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 3: lot to that country. And and uh, I would agree

1334
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 3: that he's underrated.

1335
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 2: You know, and then uh final one here Pete died.

1336
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: Hmmm. I would say underrated because of what he did

1337
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:57,839
Speaker 1: for golf course architecture, right he you know, he blazed

1338
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 1: the trayal He he was the guy that kind of

1339
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 1: started stirring the pot and started creating golf courses and

1340
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: started implementing ideas as as controversial as they as they

1341
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 1: may be, you know, he he, he devoted the motion

1342
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 1: out of people. He got golf course architecture kind of

1343
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: out of the rut. I guess he'd color you know,

1344
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: kind of pulled it out of the pulled it out

1345
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: of its rut and and you know, went for it

1346
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 1: and and you know, started building architecturally sound golf courses

1347
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 1: and golf holes that you know are very you know

1348
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 1: some there might be a lot of controversy around some

1349
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 1: of them and and all that. But I mean, without

1350
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: without putting yourself out there, without taking that risk or

1351
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,680
Speaker 1: that that that leap, you know, we're all going to

1352
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: just be doing the same thing and just kind of

1353
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 1: you know, reak or stayed in the same golf courses

1354
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 1: all over, you know, over and over, and it's just

1355
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: something I think that he kind of took and shook

1356
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: shook the hornets nest and got people inspired and got

1357
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 1: people talking about golf and golf course architecture, and you know,

1358
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: started doing all these you know, amazing things as far

1359
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 1: as building you know, like some you know, like the

1360
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: Island Green, I mean like that. You know, he was

1361
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: he went and did it, and so I would say

1362
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 1: he's underrated for what he did for golf course architecture.

1363
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 1: And I think history is gonna look back upon it

1364
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: as as that being a defining moment, right and in

1365
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: in in the lineage of golf course architecture, because I

1366
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 1: mean you just look at the guys who who were

1367
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: inspired or preceded him, right, Yeah, it's an amazing list

1368
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 1: of you know, whether it's Dope or Bill Cooorr or

1369
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:57,480
Speaker 1: Rod Whitman, Right, these guys are all kind of students

1370
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 1: of the Pete Dye era, and golf is better for it.

1371
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:03,879
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would agree.

1372
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 3: I think that's I think the mentorship aspect of it

1373
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 3: is is one piece that often goes overlooked. You know,

1374
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:14,600
Speaker 3: he he ushered in the big change. So I'm on,

1375
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 3: I'm on the same I'm on the same boat as

1376
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 3: you there. So but Riley, I really appreciate the time,

1377
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 3: and it was it was fun having you on and

1378
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 3: we'll have to do it again, UH sometime. For those

1379
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,719
Speaker 3: that you know wanna want to follow Riley, he's pretty

1380
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 3: active on social media. I think it's at Integrative Golf

1381
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 3: on both Instagram and Twitter, right, I think so? Yeah,

1382
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 3: I think so. You could search Riley John's too. But Riley,

1383
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 3: thanks so much for the time and we'll look forward

1384
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 3: to UH to to watching UH what's what's next for you?

1385
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 1: Thanks and appreciate it that time.

1386
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 2: Named at a consent content to anything anoder