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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, you think a lot about aliens visiting us, right.

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Speaker 2: I do, Actually, I fantasize about it happening.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, Well, what science fiction depiction of alien arrival

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Speaker 1: do you think best matches what you hope and dream about.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think the most fun scenarios are

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Speaker 2: when we get to talk to the aliens and like

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Speaker 2: learn secrets of the universe from them, you know, like

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Speaker 2: in Star Trek.

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Speaker 1: Not the kind where it's like an action movie and

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Speaker 1: there's a big war.

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Speaker 2: I think that's probably much more realistic that the Aliens

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Speaker 2: show up and just zap us from orbit or they're

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Speaker 2: so weird we can never talk to them.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like less of than a happy ending there

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Speaker 1: or exciting movie.

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Speaker 2: I do think in reality it's more likely to go

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Speaker 2: badly than well. When have two civilizations come into contact

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Speaker 2: and then happily lived ever after.

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Speaker 1: I think there are lots of examples in human.

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Speaker 2: History, physicists and cartoonists for example.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go to totally alien civilizations still working

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Speaker 1: together after all these years.

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Speaker 2: We're a beacon of hope in the universe.

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Speaker 1: There you go, But do you still want aliens to

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Speaker 1: come down? If you think it's going to turn out badly.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I want to know that they exist.

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Speaker 1: That's just better for you, not for the rest of us.

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Speaker 2: Everybody benefits from this kind of knowledge, man, not.

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Speaker 1: As they get eaten. I guess you. Just please don't

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Speaker 1: run for world president.

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Speaker 2: Not's going to happen, and I have no chance of

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Speaker 2: winning anybody.

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Speaker 1: Hi am Jorge Amrick, cartoonists and the author of Oliver's

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Speaker 1: Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 2: at u C Irvine. And please don't vote for me

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Speaker 2: for world president. That's the best campaign slogan I've ever heard. No, then,

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Speaker 2: please do vote for me, I gues I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be a real president.

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Speaker 1: Just don't run. Just don't run, is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: You never know, you never know how people. They're crazy

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Speaker 1: voters out there.

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Speaker 2: There are crazy voters out there. But I have enough

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Speaker 2: politics in my department and my collaborations. I don't need anymore.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's enough drama, I guess in our everyday lives,

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Speaker 1: which is why it's good that we have things like

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Speaker 1: science fiction and TV shows.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly, so we can watch other people's drama.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: In which we sit back and enjoy the incredible drama

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Speaker 2: that is our universe, all of its deep mysteries, all

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Speaker 2: of its mysterious functioning, all of the mysterious beings and

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Speaker 2: critters that might live out there in the universe and

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Speaker 2: might one day come to talk to us about their experience.

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Speaker 2: Our goal is to understand the entire universe. We think

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Speaker 2: it's possible, and to explain all of it to you.

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Speaker 2: We are sure that part is possible.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because it is an amazing universe, full of things

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Speaker 1: beyond our imagine and things that are actually maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bit within our imaginations, which can be pretty wild

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Speaker 1: for some people.

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Speaker 2: And part of trying to understand the universe is expressing

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Speaker 2: it in our terms, is getting answers to our questions

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Speaker 2: like how did it all begin? And what's going on?

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Speaker 2: And what are the rules? Questions that help shape the

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Speaker 2: context of our lives, that help us understand how we

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Speaker 2: should live and why we should live, and what we

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Speaker 2: should do with this time we have on Earth. So

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Speaker 2: it can be a fundamentally human experience, even if we're

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Speaker 2: digging into the nitty gritty of how reality works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and thinking about reality and the universe is the

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Speaker 1: job of scientists, but it's also the job of everyday people.

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Speaker 1: Lunch is people who consume science, but also artists and writers.

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Speaker 2: And a super fun way to explore these issues is

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Speaker 2: to go beyond the questions of science and into the

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Speaker 2: realm of science fiction, to imagine what might be out

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Speaker 2: there in the universe. How could the universe work, what

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Speaker 2: other critters could it be filled with? And what do

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Speaker 2: they want for lunch?

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Speaker 1: Hopefully not us, hopefully somebody else, or hopefully they're vegan.

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Speaker 1: Has anyone ever made a movie where the aliens are vegan?

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Speaker 4: Hmm?

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Speaker 2: But maybe they consider us plants?

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Speaker 1: Oh maybe they are plants.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, they're here for revenge against the vegans.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the ethical thing for them is to eat animals.

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Speaker 2: Or maybe they come and kill all the vegans and

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Speaker 2: leave only the carnivores. What if their plants, then they're

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Speaker 2: out for revenge against the plant eating vegans. Right.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you're saying, But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everyone eats, you know, some kind of plant.

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Speaker 2: I guess there are microbes out there that just eat sunlight.

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Speaker 2: But I think the point of the comparison is that

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Speaker 2: a lot of times these questions about aliens where they want,

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Speaker 2: what are their values, who would they eat if they

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Speaker 2: came are really questions about ourselves. How do we feel

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Speaker 2: about the choices we're making in our lives? And is

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Speaker 2: our experience typical? So I love watching science fiction and

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Speaker 2: reading science fiction to see people push those boundaries, to

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Speaker 2: try to think outside the box of what the intelligent

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Speaker 2: experience might be Like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's useful to think about what we

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Speaker 1: would do if we went out into the stars or

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Speaker 1: if we landed on the moon. How would things change

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Speaker 1: for us. It's kind of a useful exercise, right to

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Speaker 1: prepare us mentally and maybe socially as well.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so I'm a big fan of science fiction,

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Speaker 2: And on the podcast, we have a whole series of

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Speaker 2: episodes where we read science fiction novels or watch science

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Speaker 2: fiction television shows and then talk to the authors about

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Speaker 2: how they built their science fiction universes and what it

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Speaker 2: means to them.

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Speaker 1: And by we, Daniel mean said he does, and he

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Speaker 1: tells me about it on the podcast for the benefit

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Speaker 1: of everybody.

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Speaker 2: That's right. I have Kelly on some of those episodes

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Speaker 2: and she actually reads the book.

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Speaker 3: Mmmmm.

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Speaker 1: So today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the science

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Speaker 1: fiction universe of invasion.

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Speaker 2: Right. Invasion is a show on Apple TV. They have

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Speaker 2: a whole season out already in season two is just

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Speaker 2: now coming out, and as you might expect, this basic

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Speaker 2: topic is invasion by aliens.

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Speaker 1: Didn't they have a couple of alien invasion shows Apple TV?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to watch this. There's so many alien

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Speaker 2: invasion shows, you know, there's like War of the Worlds,

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Speaker 2: but that's not on Apple. So there's a bunch of them.

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Speaker 3: Mmm.

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Speaker 1: How come there are on any alien like alien visitation shows,

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Speaker 1: you know, and just like hey, they're coming by for

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Speaker 1: a visit.

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Speaker 2: Put out some cookies, make the good coffee. Aliens are coming.

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Speaker 1: Or like alien science shows, you know, like they come

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Speaker 1: to study us.

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Speaker 2: Mm wow, we are part of alien science.

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Speaker 1: It's like a documentary.

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Speaker 2: Exactly narrated by David Attenborough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe there's a alien David Attenborough out there with

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Speaker 1: a soothing voice and a cool British accent.

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Speaker 2: The humans all gathered around the television once again.

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Speaker 1: To watch more television about aliens visiting.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are lots of depictions of alien invasion on television.

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Speaker 2: This one I thought was kind of unique and sort

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Speaker 2: of fascinating in lots of respects.

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Speaker 1: Mmmm, so you watched the whole first season.

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Speaker 2: I watched the whole first season and I'm caught up

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Speaker 2: on season two.

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Speaker 1: Well, how is it different this show?

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Speaker 2: Well, this show is a little bit less of like

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Speaker 2: an action show. It's not really like a video game

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Speaker 2: where you're seeing ships blast each other. Really more from

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Speaker 2: the point of view of people on Earth, and it

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Speaker 2: tries to describe like how confusing and disorienting and weird

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Speaker 2: it would be if aliens arrived, because you're not always

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Speaker 2: having perfect information about everything that's happening across the planet.

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Speaker 1: Mm. Sounds a little frustrating first of all. So no,

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Speaker 1: no laser blasters.

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Speaker 2: No laser blasters, no Will Smith, Yeah, no Will Smith.

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Speaker 2: No like zapping the White House and then everybody knows

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Speaker 2: exactly what to do. It actually kind of reminded me

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Speaker 2: a little bit of how we felt in the early

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Speaker 2: days of the pandemic, when like, clearly something was going on.

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Speaker 2: Nobody liked it, but nobody exactly knew how bad it

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Speaker 2: was and what was happening and what was dangerous and

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Speaker 2: what wasn't. You know, information gets distorted and propagates slowly

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Speaker 2: and weirdly.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm. I wonder if that was partly inspired by the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: I think probably it was. And it makes Her a

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Speaker 2: really fascinating show because it tries to give you a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a preview of what it would be

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Speaker 2: like for you if aliens invaded. They don't like come

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Speaker 2: to your home or like appear on the television and

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Speaker 2: explaining everything that's happening.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess maybe it depends on how the aliens

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Speaker 1: come and visitors. Right, they might do all any kind

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Speaker 1: of thing when they come visit, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they might. Absolutely. This explores one particular kind of experience,

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Speaker 2: and it's fun as a viewer because it forces you

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Speaker 2: to sort of put the puzzle pieces together and figure

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Speaker 2: out what might be happening and what the aliens might

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Speaker 2: be like. And they don't show you the Aliens until

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Speaker 2: very close to the end of season one.

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Speaker 1: You have to wait a whole season to see the Aliens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, because you know, most people don't get to

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Speaker 2: meet those foreign visitors immediately you're just on the ground

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Speaker 2: trying to survive with your family or get home from

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Speaker 2: your field trip that went awry because of the aliens attacked.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's the basic premise? Are they here for

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Speaker 1: good reasons or bad reasons or I guess if they're

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Speaker 1: being sneaky about it, it must not be for a

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Speaker 1: good reason.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely not for good reasons. I mean, they're killing people,

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Speaker 2: they're terraforming the planet. When they arrive, it definitely looks

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Speaker 2: like they're set up for colonization. But the basic story

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Speaker 2: follows like five different threads from around the world, people

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Speaker 2: what they experience, what they see, and then as a

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Speaker 2: viewer you're trying to put it all together.

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Speaker 1: Sounds interesting. Who are these main characters?

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Speaker 2: So one group is a bunch of kids on a

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Speaker 2: field trip which goes horribly wrong. You know, their bus

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Speaker 2: is like bombarded with metal shrapnel and it falls into

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Speaker 2: a quarry and have to like survive. It's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of like a Lord of the Fly situation. And

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Speaker 2: one of the kids has a bit of a neurological

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Speaker 2: issue already, and he gets these weird visions which later

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Speaker 2: we understand are him sort of weirdly communing mentally with

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Speaker 2: the arriving aliens.

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Speaker 1: Wait, what, like he can he can think with the aliens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it turns out the aliens have really interesting and

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Speaker 2: creative way of communicating with each other, and some neuro

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Speaker 2: atypical humans can sort of pick up on those signals.

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Speaker 1: WHOA interesting they can somehow think aliens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not so much that they're thinking in the

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Speaker 2: alien language, is that they're like receiving the transmissions. And

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Speaker 2: it's not a whole lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: It's not fun.

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Speaker 2: It's not fun to get alien messages beamed into your brain.

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Speaker 2: According to this TV show.

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Speaker 1: Does it depend on what the aliens are thinking or

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Speaker 1: it's just not a pleasant experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a pleasant experience for this kid.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's another really cool thread about an engineer who's

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Speaker 2: in contact with an astronaut on the Space Shuttle. The

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Speaker 2: Space Shuttle gets destroyed when the aliens arrive, but then

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Speaker 2: they keep getting messages from the potentially dead astronaut. So

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Speaker 2: then there's a mystery there of like is she really

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Speaker 2: alive or has she been absorbed into the alien mother

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Speaker 2: ships somehow? It's a fun puzzle.

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Speaker 1: WHOA, wait, so the space shuttle out there in orbit

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Speaker 1: and they think it got destroyed or do you see

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Speaker 1: it get destroyed?

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Speaker 2: You definitely see it get bumped into by the arriving

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Speaker 2: alien ship. Whether the astronauts survive is sort of the

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Speaker 2: question I see.

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Speaker 1: So what else is going on around the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a few threads like that. There's another

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Speaker 2: group of school kids who all get spontaneous nosebleeds except

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Speaker 2: for again, one neuro atypical kid. Then he goes home

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Speaker 2: and his neighborhood is like weirdly bombed, except for his

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Speaker 2: house is left standing and his neighbors are a little

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Speaker 2: bit suspicious. But how that might have happened?

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Speaker 1: Wait? What like somehow his house was spared?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, somehow. So he's like a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: weird kid. That's something of a feme in the show

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Speaker 2: that certain humans get treated differently by the alien invasion,

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Speaker 2: and that of course causes tension among the humans, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: how come your house didn't get blown up and mine did?

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Speaker 1: Is because they're tastier or because they taste bad?

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Speaker 2: It's not clear.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned for season fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it's a lot of fun and they're

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Speaker 2: definitely creative, and they're doing their best to show us

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Speaker 2: aliens we haven't seen before. I think I can talk

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Speaker 2: about it without spoiling it too much because season one

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Speaker 2: has been out for a while.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, maybe you should give a spoiler

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Speaker 1: warning though. I mean, if you have to wait for

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Speaker 1: the whole season to see these Aliens, you're basically spoiling

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Speaker 1: the whole season.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so maybe I won't spoil it. I'll

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Speaker 2: just say that the Aliens.

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Speaker 1: No, just give a spoiler alert, then you can spoil it.

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Speaker 2: That's how it works, all right, Skip forward fifteen seconds

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Speaker 2: if you don't want to hear this. But the Aliens

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Speaker 2: are these weird black blobs that can sort of grow

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Speaker 2: legs in any direction to move. So the way they

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Speaker 2: move is this really strange kinetics sort of dance. They're

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Speaker 2: like constantly growing legs out in front of them to

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Speaker 2: touch stuff and move forward. It's very weird. They're sort

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Speaker 2: of like microbes blown up to the macroscopic scale.

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Speaker 1: WHOA sounds a little bit weird and scary. Are they

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Speaker 1: friendly looking or are they sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the alien movies, terrifying.

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Speaker 2: They're not like the alien movies. They don't look like

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Speaker 2: a predator, but they're definitely not friendly. And they get

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Speaker 2: this sort of like creepiness from being so weird, from

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Speaker 2: being so different from anything you've ever seen before. Like

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Speaker 2: there's no face there to even like try to connect with.

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Speaker 1: Do they have like a mouth?

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Speaker 2: At least they do have a sort of kind of

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Speaker 2: orifice that they used to gobble people up.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, they do gobble people up.

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Speaker 2: They do gobble people up, like eat them whole. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you could describe it as digesting. But

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Speaker 2: yet people definitely get killed and consumed.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, at least the tasty ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I really like this show, and the

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Speaker 2: science of it is interesting.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: They have these new ways for the aliens to communicate

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Speaker 2: with each other, which might weirdly overlap with human brain patterns.

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Speaker 2: The ships that arrive are these incredibly huge, like of

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Speaker 2: Star Wars size destroyers, and they have really interesting terraforming

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Speaker 2: technology to try to convert the atmosphere to something that

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Speaker 2: the aliens could naturally breathe.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. All right, Well, let's get into the science of

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Speaker 1: the Apple TV show Invasion. And then later on Daniel

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Speaker 1: has an interview with some of the writers from the show.

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Speaker 1: So let's dig into those things. But first let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break. All right, welcome back. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the science fiction universe of Invasion, the Apple TV show,

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Speaker 1: which is about an invision of the alien kind.

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Speaker 2: Finally something that's well named.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it takes a writer to do that.

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Speaker 2: They did not have a physicist in charge.

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Speaker 1: Maybe all those tracking writers should go work for science

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Speaker 1: help give better names.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if we had funding, we would definitely hire more writers.

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Speaker 1: There you go. So we're talking about the TV show Invasion,

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Speaker 1: which has a new season out right now. You can

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Speaker 1: go watch the first season, I guess if you're subscribed

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Speaker 1: to Apple TV, right, mm hmm. And we talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the tone of the show and what's

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Speaker 1: going on. It's kind of a big mystery box. But

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Speaker 1: why the aliens are here? Are though? It's pretty clear

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Speaker 1: they're not friendly.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty clear that they want what we have.

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Speaker 1: They're not here to do science with the physicists. You're

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Speaker 1: here to do dinner with the.

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Speaker 2: Physicists exactly, dinner of the physicists.

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Speaker 1: That's right, it's physics for dinner. So then you're saying

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Speaker 1: there's some interesting science or at least science fiction in it, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always looking for a science fiction that creates

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Speaker 2: new rules and then follows them that gives us a

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Speaker 2: new sort of mental space to play with, because the

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Speaker 2: fun part for me in a science fiction show is

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Speaker 2: the mystery and trying to solve it and trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out like, huh, if the aliens can do this,

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Speaker 2: then maybe this is the rule they follow, and trying

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Speaker 2: to uncover what those rules are, just the same way

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Speaker 2: we're trying to uncover the rules of the real universe.

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Speaker 2: And so it's important to me that they're actually following

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Speaker 2: some rules so that the detective game is fair in

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Speaker 2: some respects. And this one, I think is definitely creative

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Speaker 2: and follows those rules.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, what are some of the rules?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the aliens have some weird way of communicating supposedly

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Speaker 2: with each other, and one crucial aspects of the plot

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Speaker 2: is that some of the kids on the planet can

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Speaker 2: sort of overhear it or can understand that they get

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Speaker 2: these visions of what the aliens are seeing. So what's

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Speaker 2: the science of that? Like, Well, you know, there's lots

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Speaker 2: of waves you could communicate invisibly between brains all sorts

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Speaker 2: of electromagnetic waves or sound waves you know infrasound or

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Speaker 2: whatever you could use to communicate.

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Speaker 1: Meaning, Like the aliens talk to each other telepathically to

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Speaker 1: each other, I guess they don't speak. Somehow they're transmitting

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Speaker 1: information between their brains.

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Speaker 2: Somehow they're transmitting information between their brains.

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Speaker 1: Which could just be like an electromane and the signal

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Speaker 1: or like a radio signal.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely the same way that our phones talk to each other.

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Speaker 2: You don't hear them speaking, but they're definitely passing messages

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Speaker 2: back and forth. And the question is, like, is it

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Speaker 2: plausible for the human brain to be able to pick

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Speaker 2: up those messages and interpret them as images. I mean,

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Speaker 2: android and iPhones can't even really talk to each other.

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Speaker 1: Right, that seems pretty unlikely. It's almost like you could

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Speaker 1: overhear yourself your cell phone, right, like you could somehow

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Speaker 1: envision what picture you're sending one person is sending another

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Speaker 1: person through your brain, like somehow that seems unlikely that

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Speaker 1: it would resonate in your brain.

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Speaker 2: Somehow, it seems unlikely that your brain would know how

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Speaker 2: to interpret that. You know that those signals could be

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Speaker 2: assembled by your brain into an image in your mind

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Speaker 2: it seems pretty hard to imagine, but you know, it

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Speaker 2: stretches the bounds of plausibility but doesn't quite break it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is possible that there's just sort of

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Speaker 2: like the natural way for a brain to represent images,

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Speaker 2: and aliens in humans happen to have it in common.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems unlikely, but it's not impossible.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see, like maybe they map it out in

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Speaker 1: a similar way or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are studies that show that when you

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Speaker 2: think about a memory, you have an image in your mind,

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Speaker 2: there's a physical representation of that in the neurons in

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Speaker 2: your brain that have a similar physical relationship. Like see

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Speaker 2: images in people's brains of what they are thinking if

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Speaker 2: you scan it in the right way. So it's not

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Speaker 2: impossible that an alien image could you know, tweak your

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Speaker 2: neurons in a certain way to make you see something.

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Speaker 1: It's possible, all right, what else do we have in

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Speaker 1: this world?

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Speaker 2: The rest of the world is pretty straight up, like

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Speaker 2: huge ships. Yeah, sure, aliens could probably build huge ships.

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Speaker 2: Would they have terraforming technology? Yeah? Probably. Terraforming is pretty

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Speaker 2: challenging if you want to do it on a short

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Speaker 2: time scale, If you need to replace the atmosphere of

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Speaker 2: an entire planet. It's a pretty big project. You can't

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Speaker 2: just like have one pump to create methane or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is you need to breathe. You need pretty massive,

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Speaker 2: industrial sized converters. But they bring those along and so

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Speaker 2: that is totally plausible that the Aliens could convert our

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Speaker 2: atmosphere to theirs in a fairly short time. They do

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Speaker 2: have these very powerful pumps.

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Speaker 1: One thing about huge ships is I always wonder how

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Speaker 1: they land and how they stay afloat. Now do these

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Speaker 1: big ships of the Aliens? Did they land on Earth

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Speaker 1: or did they stay hovering above the White House and

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Speaker 1: things like that.

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Speaker 2: No, they just hover above. Then they send down little

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Speaker 2: landing ships.

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Speaker 1: Like are they in orbit or are they actually just floating?

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I hadn't considered the orbital mechanics

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Speaker 2: of it. They're pretty close to the surface, so I

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Speaker 2: think it'd be pretty challenging to be in orbit. So

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Speaker 2: they must be hovering someway.

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Speaker 1: Just magically floating. That's one thing that always gets me.

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Speaker 1: It's like the amount of energy you need to hold

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Speaker 1: something up that big would be huge unless they have

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Speaker 1: some sort of like anti gravity.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you're right, and that would be applying a

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Speaker 2: force downwards on the ground, and so you'd be able

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Speaker 2: to see them on the ground if they're not just

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Speaker 2: like manipulating gravity somehow.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, we need to manipulate gravity. Cool. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things to think about here, and

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Speaker 1: to check out the Apple TV show Invasion. Now, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: you got to interview a couple of the writers from the.

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Speaker 2: Show I did. I got in touch with Tatiana Suarez

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Speaker 2: Pico and a DT Brendan Kapil. Both of them are

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Speaker 2: writers on season two of the show, and both of

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Speaker 2: them have really interesting stories about how they came to

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Speaker 2: become science fiction writers. They both started as playwrights actually,

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Speaker 2: and one of them was an actor before becoming a writer.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. All right, Well, here's Daniel's interview with Invasion writers

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Speaker 1: Tatiana Suardrez Pico and Aditi Brennan Capill.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so then it's my great pleasure to welcome to

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Speaker 2: the program the writers Tatiana Suarez Pico and Adit Brennan Capil,

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Speaker 2: who are both science fiction writers. Extraordinary. Thank you very

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Speaker 2: much for joining us today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having us.

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Speaker 2: So first, tell us a little bit about your background,

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Speaker 2: how you guys got into writing, how you got into

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Speaker 2: science fiction and television. Tell us the story I am.

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Speaker 3: This is a dit speaking. I am originally a playwright,

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Speaker 3: and I drifted into TV and film writing the way

444
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,439
Speaker 3: that many playwrights do. You know, TV and film actually

445
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 3: got really really exciting at one point, and oddly, possibly unusually,

446
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: my plays tended to have a little bit of a

447
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,199
Speaker 3: genre twist to them, like I actually wrote things that

448
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 3: were like epic, metaphoric sci fi ish work or you know,

449
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 3: mythologically inspired work, Like there was always some kind of

450
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 3: something in there, which when people ask me about it

451
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 3: back then, I think I might have attributed it to

452
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 3: being Indian, because I feel like Indian people have like

453
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 3: a really specific like if you look at the like

454
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 3: the Ramayana, there was a spaceship like I think we

455
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 3: have very very old school sci fi cred and when

456
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 3: I got here and started writing TV and film, I

457
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,199
Speaker 3: think a lot of what I ended up doing was

458
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 3: in the genre space, and specifically in the sci fi space.

459
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 3: For me, I think it has a lot to do

460
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 3: with the fact that if you want to tell radical stories,

461
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 3: oftentimes it's both more fun and easier to tell them

462
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,479
Speaker 3: if you're in another world in a way, so that

463
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 3: you can sort of take the pieces of it that

464
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: may have been too close to home that there might

465
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 3: have been resistance to in terms of oh, I'm uncomfortable

466
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 3: with that subject matter, or I'm feeling a little you know,

467
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 3: preached to or something. You put it in a grand adventure,

468
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 3: you put it in space, and all of a sudden

469
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 3: you can talk about really difficult topics and people are like, yeah,

470
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 3: but it's just a yarn and I'm having a good

471
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 3: time and I get to sneak more radical content and

472
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 3: on people that way. And that was true when I

473
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 3: was writing plays, and it's true for writing TV and film.

474
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: It's amazing to me how many people don't realize that

475
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 2: Star Trek is like deeply political and progressive. You know,

476
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, it's about aliens, so it's no reflection

477
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 2: on us.

478
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get really feminist too when you get

479
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 3: into like, yeah, it's really interesting, which you can get

480
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 3: away with that. There would be serious resistance too if

481
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 3: you were like in a more grounded space.

482
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Tatiana, what's your story?

483
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 5: You know, I didn't know it was my dream, so

484
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 5: I was an actor first. Then I went to grad

485
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 5: school for that, and then I went to did a

486
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 5: POSTCRAD program for playwriting, and so I did that for

487
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 5: a little bit, probably not as extensively as I would

488
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 5: have liked to, because as soon as I graduated from

489
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 5: that program, I ended up working in television. And that's

490
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 5: just because I wrote a play that an agent liked

491
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 5: and said, I think I can get you a job

492
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 5: in LA And I said, what do I have to

493
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 5: do and he said, just be yourself and I said, okay,

494
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 5: I got this.

495
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 2: So you were discovered.

496
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean sure, the way that any agent will

497
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 5: look for material that they think they can market in

498
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 5: some way, because at the end of the day, it

499
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 5: is a business. So that's how I ended up doing this.

500
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 5: And like I said, I really didn't know it was

501
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 5: a job. I loved movies and I thought there were

502
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 5: actors and producers, and I never thought about writers. I

503
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 5: don't know why, and I certainly, even though I wrote

504
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 5: for a long time before, I consider myself myself a writer,

505
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 5: I never thought anyone would pay me actual money to write,

506
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 5: And somehow I thought people would pay me to act.

507
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 5: So it's kind of silly, but that led me to

508
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 5: a variety of jobs in the genre space. And what

509
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 5: I realized is that the things that I wanted to

510
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 5: do as an actor, which was be able to pay

511
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 5: a play a variety of characters and actions and places

512
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 5: and people and things, I actually gravitated toward that and

513
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 5: writing like that, the ability to create worlds seemed really

514
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 5: really exciting and really will suit it to me, Like

515
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 5: I was able to jump into that, into whatever the

516
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 5: space is with I think with a spirit of play.

517
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, go, so I think that that's how

518
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 5: I ended up here.

519
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: It's incredible to me how important it is to sort

520
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 2: of know what the possibilities are in order to get

521
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 2: access to them. Do you think there are still like

522
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: jobs out there you don't even know exist that it

523
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: might be well suited to you, Like, oh, I didn't

524
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: know you could be a studio head and control entire

525
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: production budgets or things beyond that.

526
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 5: I think there are less jobs now that I know,

527
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 5: just because of the experience, But I am certain there

528
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 5: are things that I'm like, wow, who does that? I mean,

529
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 5: even when when I think of science, I'm like, maybe

530
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 5: I should have studied science that that's actually changing the world.

531
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 5: And you know, sort of forgives in humanity in some

532
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 5: very tangible way. But I'm sure there are jobs out

533
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 5: there and possibilities. I should say that I have yet

534
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 5: to explore and understand and know.

535
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 3: I have a very limited skill set.

536
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 4: I think I managed to find the exact right groove.

537
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: For my skill set.

538
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so glad that happened.

539
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 4: As am I there was a possibility of just what

540
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 4: are we gonna do? I don't know. It's a really

541
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 4: good thing. I was able to monetize the.

542
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 3: Thing I do.

543
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: That's wonderful. So we have a set of questions that

544
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 2: we ask all all science fiction writers that we bring

545
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: on the show to sort of like put them on

546
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: the spectrum of concepts. So these are generic questions, not

547
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: necessarily about your writing. And the first one is a

548
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: little bit of philosophy. Do you think that Star Trek

549
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: transporters kill you and clone you on the other side

550
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: or actually transport your atoms somewhere else? Is it a

551
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: murder machine or a teleportation device.

552
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: I need to believe that it's a teleportation device. I'm

553
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable with a murder machine.

554
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 4: Because there's those times when they get like lost and

555
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 4: they have to be found and.

556
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: If they were in fact death No, no, no, no,

557
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: I'm going with teleportation.

558
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: Machine because you think it's true or because you need

559
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: it to be true.

560
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: I would never travel by that means if it wasn't, like,

561
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: I don't know why any of them would get on

562
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: that little like thingy if it wasn't I don't yeah, no,

563
00:25:58,359 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: uh huh.

564
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 5: I think that that would be it might be a

565
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 5: selling point for people if they were actually killing you,

566
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 5: like you you know, cross and to the other side,

567
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 5: and that you're new, you're born again. You know that's

568
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 5: a thing.

569
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: Hey, why disassemble? Could you actually take out this thing

570
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 4: that I don't like? That would be great.

571
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 5: Could you make me a little taller.

572
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 4: It's like a really in depth colonoscopy here. We're just

573
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 4: going to disassemble. You will take out the stuff that's

574
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 4: not great, we'll put you back together. Not to worry,

575
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: but but I do.

576
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 5: I do think that it would be sort of like

577
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 5: a selling point if you were actually dying, like what

578
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 5: what happens? And that are you conscious in the between

579
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 5: and the in between? You know what I mean?

580
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 4: Like what I don't even take roller coasters? Like, no,

581
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 4: you can have trouble.

582
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: I think convincing certain types of people to ever be

583
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: transported would be in a shuttle every time.

584
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 5: That is there and trained to get there. Exactly could

585
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 5: I row If anybody piloting thing.

586
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 4: Give me one of those little like rocket packs, I'll

587
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: just he'll be there.

588
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 5: I like the deav in between, But I don't think

589
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 5: they're actually killing you. It feels like it's like some

590
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 5: sort of three D printing something, something that transports you.

591
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 4: So now you're being cloned.

592
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I'm thinking, opened up a whole thing

593
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 3: where there are several of me existing on several different

594
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: places because I've been killed and reassembled so many times,

595
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: And what if I wasn't really dead?

596
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 4: What if that big transportation device.

597
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: Now has created these theories of alternate We're so screwed you.

598
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: Guys, which one is really you?

599
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 5: That would be really interesting, like what happens, But.

600
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: It's a fundamental flaw in the construction, Like, you do

601
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: not want that machine. You want a simple machine that

602
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: guarantees that you're the same person on the other.

603
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: Side, like a robot. Yeah. No, that's the advantage philosophical

604
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 2: advantage of a rowboat right there, all right? So second

605
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 2: general question is what technology in science fiction would you

606
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: most like to see become reality.

607
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: Well, frankly, teleportation really excellent. That would be super convenient.

608
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 3: I really don't enjoy the time it takes to travel places.

609
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's a version of time travel, right,

610
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we do it in the like

611
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 5: in the present when you get on a plane and

612
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 5: you end up in the future someplace else in the world.

613
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 5: I mean, it's also like the ability to I don't know,

614
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 5: fly at the speed of light. I don't know, like

615
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 5: travel is whatever that is. But the idea that you

616
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 5: could go back and forth in time and somehow effect

617
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 5: your future and then know at what point in your

618
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 5: future you could show up.

619
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm learning so much about Tatiana right now.

620
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: I feel like just the fact that your brain is

621
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: like the little is fascinating.

622
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 4: Also, time travel is an airplane.

623
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 5: It is it is. I mean, I als would make

624
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 5: a joke about this, but I'm like, how is the future?

625
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 5: Because they are technically in the future eight hours and

626
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 5: hours eighteen hours ahead, You're like, how you know?

627
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: Time slippery? All right? Last general question is what's your

628
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: personal answer to the Fermi paradox. If the galaxy is

629
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: vast and old, why haven't we been visited by aliens?

630
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 5: I think we have Okay, I don't have any tangible

631
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 5: scientific proof, so I you know, other than it's a conjecture.

632
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 5: But I I mean, maybe those videos that you see

633
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 5: on the internet of UFOs are made up, right, those

634
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 5: like where you see an aircraft going, Maybe they are.

635
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 5: Maybe they're just a trick. But who says that they

636
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 5: have not? And maybe we're not very interesting, Maybe we're

637
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 5: too primitive. Maybe it's just a couple of people who

638
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 5: visited or I don't know, and you know the way

639
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 5: that you would visit a foreign country and be like

640
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 5: maybe not there.

641
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: They stop by, they didn't like the coffee, they left.

642
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 5: These people are doing, I mean, they're you know, they're

643
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 5: they're gonna end up killing each other anyway, So can

644
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 5: we just like observe and then leave. So that's what

645
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 5: I mean. Who's to say that they have a visited?

646
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 5: I think that's my take on it.

647
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: I guess I think, what if we're just a blip,

648
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: you know, what's to visit? Do you know what I mean?

649
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: Like it's such an insane accident of biology and evolution

650
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: and cosmic dust, that we even are like this, you know,

651
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: and that we have a planet that's like teeming with

652
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: life and perhaps that weird cosmic accident is and then

653
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: at some point, which is maybe soon in a cosmic sense,

654
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: will no longer be and uh, that's just kind of

655
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: there is to it. And maybe there's a blip of

656
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: some kind elsewhere, but is that something that we're really

657
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: privy to given what a blip we.

658
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: Are, you know, meaning that we don't live for very long,

659
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: and so our civilizations just might not overlap with other blips.

660
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: Sure, and we're not very important, so why like it's

661
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: sort of it feels like, though, why haven't we been

662
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: visited and why haven't we encountered? Is such a human

663
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: centric way to think to begin with. If we're not

664
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: the center of the universe, then it's just a it's

665
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: an accident of whatever what we do encounter and what

666
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 3: we don't encounter and what we'll never encounter, and we'll

667
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: just sort of like live our weird little ephemeral existence

668
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: and that'll be that and whatever we get to see

669
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,239
Speaker 3: that that's cool, I guess, But I don't know, like

670
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: something you know, I work in theater. I used to

671
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: work in theater where things are and then they aren't, Like,

672
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: I'm all about the ephemeral. Yeah, I guess I just

673
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: don't think that the universe versus organized around our experience.

674
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's fascinating in science fiction how a

675
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: lot of it really is the projection of the human

676
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: experience to say, well, if we were around for long enough,

677
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: we would explore the whole galaxy, so therefore other aliens

678
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: must also be doing that. But really we're just thinking

679
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: about what we would do, and it's impossible to really

680
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: put ourselves in the minds of aliens and.

681
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: Our desire to encounter something that we can understand so

682
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 3: that we can interpret it. I mean, I also think

683
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: that if we do presume alien life, which I'm totally

684
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: fine with presuming alien life, what are the odds that

685
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 3: we would even understand it, you know, that it would register.

686
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 5: Or they even want to understand us.

687
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, or have wants, I mean wants seem like a

688
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 3: very human thing.

689
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: Well, that brings me to a question I wanted to

690
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: ask you. When you're writing science fiction and you're portraying aliens,

691
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: seems to me like there's a bit of a choice there, Like,

692
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: you can make aliens extremely alien, which I think is

693
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: probably more realistic, and it makes them emotionally totally inaccessible.

694
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: Right we can't see what they're thinking, we can't know

695
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: what they're feeling, we can't even talk to them. Or

696
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: you can make them less realistic and more human, but

697
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: then you can know what they want and there's motivations

698
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: and you see their internal politics. What do you like

699
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: to write on that spectrum? More realistic but inaccessible, or

700
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: less realistic but more understandable.

701
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: I guess Philosophically, I think the exploration of the something

702
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: that is completely other is really interesting and can reflect

703
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: interestingly on our humanity and how we perceive the world,

704
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: how we think about ourselves in the context of the universe. However,

705
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: pragmatically speaking, if you want to have scenes with said aliens,

706
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: it really helps if they have a face.

707
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: Like it really really.

708
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: Helps if they have a face. It is incredibly hard

709
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: for us with our human brains, because ultimately, here's the thing.

710
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: We are writing and filming and communicating and acting for

711
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: a human audience. So ultimately we really really have to

712
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 3: gear what we're doing to a human brain and how

713
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 3: a human brain receives information. It is really hard to

714
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 3: have a scene with something that doesn't have a face.

715
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 3: It's hard to invest it with emotion, intent, it's hard

716
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 3: to give it any of those things. So I enjoy

717
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 3: the inscrutability of you know, cosmic dust, I guess. But

718
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: I think depending on the nature of the show, if

719
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 3: it is a show that wants to actually interact and

720
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 3: have conversations, then you need to anthropomorphize just a little bit.

721
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I think that.

722
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 5: You know, my dad used to watch Star Trek, but

723
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 5: I grew up in Columbia, so I used to watch

724
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 5: it in Spanish, soa he Lesstrades, that was I think,

725
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 5: and I think what he was most excited about, and

726
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 5: what I got most excited about, by proxy, was that

727
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 5: there were all these aliens, right, these other planets, and

728
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 5: people that lived inhabited these other planets, that had wants

729
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 5: and needs and whichever way they were using them to

730
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 5: this because a variety of themes and topics that applied

731
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 5: to humans and humanity in our world, those other people,

732
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 5: those other creatures or beings were being used to reflect

733
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: our own wants and needs and things. But I think

734
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 5: that in order to have actual drama. Like Aditi said,

735
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 5: you do need them to want something. And that's not

736
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 5: to say that you don't relish some degree of alertness, right,

737
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 5: Like via the invasion, they were like lizards, right and

738
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 5: there was scary and hard to look at, and Diana

739
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 5: was evil and all of that, and I think, but

740
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 5: I think that that's their otherness. Was scary and interesting,

741
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 5: and I think you can make a meal out of

742
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: that in any scenario, in any sort of sci fi

743
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 5: show or world. But yeah, I agree with ideally you

744
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 5: want them to want.

745
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: Something, like you feel like it's Wars where they had

746
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 3: kind of a medley. You just need eyes, Like if

747
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: you just have eyes and maybe noise, you're okay. You

748
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 3: can get emotion like Chewy. And honestly, the robots are

749
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: like some of my I get. So they make me

750
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: emotional as emotional, if not more, as you know, the humans.

751
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: Even Jaba the Hut has needs.

752
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 5: We're gonna say that Jaba Hut. I mean, I said

753
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 5: so little, but yet so much. You know, like you

754
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 5: understand which side Jaba is on.

755
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: So then what about on invasion? We see the aliens

756
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: very briefly, but when we do see them, they're very other.

757
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: There are no eyeballs, there's no faces. We get some

758
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: sense of like, you know, malevolence. Tell us about writing

759
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: with such weird aliens.

760
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: Actually, I should say neither of us worked on the

761
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: first season of Invasion. We both worked on the second

762
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: season and for the second season because we're in the

763
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: middle of airing. In addition to the fact that we're

764
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: on strike and not promoting, we also Canton shouldn't spoil,

765
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: so there's that component. But I think what I in,

766
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: you know, what I'll talk about the first season. I

767
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 3: think what I enjoyed about the aliens on Invasion, and

768
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: also about the slow burn of the kind of invasion

769
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: approach to sci fi was the very, very creepy, eerie

770
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 3: unknown of what is happening to us, which feels so

771
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 3: radical in a kind of in a filmography where we

772
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,959
Speaker 3: are accustomed to we're under attack, how do we fight back?

773
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: We fight back, and usually it's literally DC fighting a

774
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 3: mother ship. Like you know, it's like the White House

775
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: is blown up, we shoot the thing. You know, it's

776
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: very binary and very literal and very linear, and who

777
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: is the enemy is very clear.

778
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: It's like a video game.

779
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 3: Usually, yeah, very much so, and it's nice, it's very

780
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: convenient for storytelling, like you got your hero, you know

781
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 3: where to point your hero. But there's something so disruptive

782
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 3: and disturbing about not about something is happening to us,

783
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: to the planet, to us as a humanity, and we

784
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 3: can't quite figure out what and how do we go

785
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: about that? And how does the information reach the various

786
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 3: pockets that it reaches when it reaches them, and how

787
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: do you interpret the weird fragments of information that you have,

788
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 3: And that includes what the aliens look like. I mean,

789
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: they're incomprehensible, They're like, well, they don't have eyes, you

790
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 3: know what I mean, they have a mouth, which is

791
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: good and scary or like something that feels oritificy anyway,

792
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 3: But it's that sort of I think that the game,

793
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: especially in season one, and I shall refrain from spoiling

794
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 3: season two, the game that season one plays is very

795
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: much that's sort of like down to the ground realistic.

796
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: How do you figure out from the rapnels of information

797
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: that you have what is happening? And how terrifying is

798
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 3: it to not even be able to identify the nature

799
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: or the source of this threat that is clearly killing you.

800
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: You know, it's scary in a human way. It's scary

801
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: the way disease is scary, which I think is fascinating

802
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: and I take no credit for because I didn't work

803
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: out season one.

804
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 5: I think there was also an effort to make those

805
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 5: particular creatures unlike any human or anything that you've ever seen,

806
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 5: because the less they look like you, the less you're

807
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 5: able to think or imagine that you can relate to

808
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 5: these things that are in front of you. And I

809
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 5: think the little bit that I can say of a

810
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 5: season two is once again because it's airing and strike stuff,

811
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 5: I feel like the joy and the Jews and that

812
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 5: story is that it's discovering how they are unlike us,

813
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 5: or how they are like us, you know, where and

814
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 5: how could we possibly communicate with a language and a

815
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 5: language that we don't understand. So like the way that

816
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 5: you know, what's your name, Amy's the language a specialist,

817
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 5: the linguist tries to communicate with beings that do not

818
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 5: communicate the way that you do. So I think that

819
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 5: there's a joy in that and an excitement and a

820
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 5: fear for the characters.

821
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, wonderful. Tell me a little bit about what it's

822
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: like to work on a project like this where the

823
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: universe has been somewhat set up already, because I know

824
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: the season one was written basically by the creators of

825
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 2: the show, and then you guys got brought in for

826
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: season two. Do they like read you in in all

827
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 2: the secrets that are coming down the roads to make

828
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: sure that your writing is consistent with it? What's that

829
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: like to sort of operate in somebody else's universe that

830
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: they've begun to build.

831
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I would say that yes to what

832
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 5: you said. I believe they had like a writer's room before,

833
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 5: and that was done a way, and that was for

834
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 5: season one, and then there was a fairly mostly new

835
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 5: writers from for season two, and I think the spirit

836
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 5: of that season two room was We're going to let

837
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 5: you in on all the secrets, but also we are

838
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 5: so open to you bringing in ideas and also your

839
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 5: ideas as a viewer. Right. I think by now I

840
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 5: watch season one like six times, you know, and there's

841
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 5: you know, because of all the clues and the things,

842
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 5: and where can we grow the story? So there was

843
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 5: a spirit of openness and what else can you bring

844
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 5: to the table, How can we make this exciting? What

845
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 5: was exciting for you as a viewer watching the show

846
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 5: in the first season.

847
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 2: I mean, ye, all right, I have lots more things

848
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 2: they want to talk about, but first, let's take a

849
00:41:48,400 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: quick break. Okay, we're back and we're talking to the

850
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: writers of the TV show Invasion. Compare what it's like

851
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: for us working on a big studio project like this

852
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: with a lot of your other work you both worked on,

853
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, as playwrights, where it's just you and the

854
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: blank page and nobody's giving you notes. I'm assuming to

855
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: working on a project like this with this many levels

856
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 2: of review and discussion, And what's that like? Which one

857
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 2: is more fun for you? Or are the pros and cons?

858
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 3: Oh they're such wildly different beasts. Kind of the beauty

859
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: of TV writing. But also the biggest difference for me

860
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: between it and writing a play, or even writing a

861
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: screenplay or you know, an audio play or anything that

862
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 3: is just mine is that in TV, the showrunner is

863
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 3: the lead artist, and everything you do in a really,

864
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: really fantastic, gorgeous I love this aspect of it, wait,

865
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 3: is in service to the lead artist's vision. So it's

866
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: like in the case of Invasion, Invasion is Simon Kinberg's

867
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: show and the case of the show I did for

868
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 3: Netflix years ago away the showrunners were the really really lovely,

869
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: amazing Wise Andrew Hinderocker and Jessica Goldberg. And when you

870
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: come into any TV room where you're inventing together, and

871
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 3: you have to invent together, and you have to all right,

872
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 3: and you have to all live in the same world,

873
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: and you have to somehow get into that space where

874
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: you're all inhabiting the same world. But what's helpful to

875
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 3: always remember is that ultimately that world is the showrunner's creation.

876
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: That's their baby.

877
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 3: That's who has in their gut the knowledge of what

878
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: this needs to be and wants to be. And you're

879
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: playing in that sandbox. So the really stark difference for

880
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 3: me is when it's mine, it's all my sandbox. It

881
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: is mine like I am. I'm not even the showrunner.

882
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: I'm just like the god of that little universe. My plays,

883
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 3: they are mine, they are my universe. I create them,

884
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 3: I make them go any which direction I please. At

885
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 3: some point I might be in service to someone else,

886
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: but not even really Like I'm in dialogue. I love collaboration.

887
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: What's fun about a writer's room is it's like improv

888
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: all day long with your friends, and then thankfully there's

889
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 3: someone who invented this world who can go, yeah, I

890
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: love that. Now let's not do that. Yeah great, go

891
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 3: that way. No no, no, no, I don't like that

892
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: at all, and you're like, cool, I'll go that way.

893
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 3: And when it's my world, I spend quality time thinking

894
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 3: really hard about what it is I'm trying to communicate

895
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 3: to the world. I spend quality time thinking about, you know,

896
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: like what the truth underneath a scene is that I

897
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 3: have to excavate in order to make it the most honest, profound,

898
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 3: insightful thing that I can say. And it's hot, and

899
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 3: it's like taking your innerds and smearing them across a

900
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 3: page and it takes forever, and it's agonizing writers' rooms. Yes,

901
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: it's like that when you're writing, because you want to

902
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 3: give them your best work, but it's not quite that painful.

903
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 3: It's like play with your friends, you know what I mean,

904
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 3: Because you have buddies. I can be like Gadiana, I

905
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: hate this scene so much, tell me something and she

906
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: tells me a.

907
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 4: Joke and I go, okay, wait, I think I got it,

908
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 4: and I go, you.

909
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: Know, it's just a visceral difference in terms of process

910
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 3: and also in terms of whether you're in service or

911
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: whether you are the artist who is just stating a thing.

912
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's also a degree of community work, right,

913
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 5: because theater is community work once there is a project

914
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 5: and a creation on the table, right, And then you

915
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 5: bring in a designer, and you have a director, and

916
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 5: you have the actors, and you have a sound designer,

917
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 5: and you may have a theater. An artistic director of

918
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 5: a theater is also chiming in. And it feels like

919
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 5: TV is very much a community effort from the get go.

920
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 5: You know, even even with the creator slash showrunner, a

921
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 5: creator and a showrunner that work together, having those people

922
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 5: as people who are have created or given birth to

923
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 5: quote unquote given birth to a project in a world

924
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 5: it's very community oriented from the get go. And it

925
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 5: also depends on how flexible your creators or showrunner and

926
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 5: or show runner are and how willing they are to

927
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 5: stretch and open up the world in different ways that

928
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 5: they could have ever imagined. Some people are like, no,

929
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 5: it is this way, this is the only way I

930
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 5: want it, and that is completely fine, and then the other,

931
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 5: you know, the other end of that spectrum is like,

932
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 5: I'm very open to shaping this and taking it to

933
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 5: a place where I never imagined it could go.

934
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: Well. I'm wondering also about the process of like setting

935
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: up the rules for the world. Is it more like,

936
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: here's the universe we created, let's figure out what the

937
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: natural stories are, what it's like to be human in

938
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 2: this world, what it's like to live through this experience.

939
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 2: Or is it more like, here are the stories we

940
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: want to tell. You know, we'll figure out the rules

941
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: as we go along, which is a sort of more

942
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: natural process for you.

943
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 5: It's a very personal question, right because and it also

944
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 5: depends on the story. Some stories require that you have

945
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 5: rules from the get go, even this tell Transporters, right like,

946
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 5: I know that they added like a machine that control

947
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 5: the tele transporting device and Star Trek, and then they

948
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 5: were like, oh, this falters. Here's a problem, you know

949
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 5: if you mess with it. But I think that there

950
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 5: are rules like maybe we never see the in between.

951
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 5: That's the rule, you know, because we don't want people

952
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 5: to go there. But I think it really depends on

953
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 5: the story that you're telling. I tend to do characters

954
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 5: and wants and needs and then go like, well, they

955
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 5: can't have it because, or they can't have this, or

956
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 5: they can or they want something forbidden because and why

957
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 5: is it forbidden in that world? And the rules Store

958
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 5: is sort of populating the world. But I've certainly worked

959
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 5: on shows where it was like the rules are you know,

960
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 5: I worked on the second iteration of this is in

961
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 5: sci fi, but it's genre certainly in period Penny Dreadful,

962
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 5: but it was in la and the rules were very clear.

963
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 5: You know, it's like it's period and the level of

964
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 5: horror is this, and this is what the person who's inhabiting,

965
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 5: the who's being inhabited were possessed by the devil. This

966
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 5: is what they can do. You know, they can't walk

967
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 5: through walls, but they can get into your head, you

968
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 5: know what I mean. But they can't. So those rules

969
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 5: were very clear, and they were set by the showrunner,

970
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 5: by John Logan. So as an example of rules are clear,

971
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 5: you cannot break them Otherwise, you know, you're sort of

972
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 5: pulling apart and tearing apart the fabric of the world

973
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 5: in the show.

974
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 3: It's so particular, it's so particular the creator, I think,

975
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 3: just search for the story and the perfect vessel to marry,

976
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 3: like I is my thing, Like I feel like I

977
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 3: can meander through bazillion thoughts in my head. But unless

978
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 3: I come across one where I go, ooh, this story

979
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: inside this vessel look like a perfect marriage to me,

980
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 3: then I don't. I can't start, like I need the

981
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: vessel too in order to begin. So I think I

982
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 3: tend to have structure and some rules a universe in mind.

983
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 3: That there's to what degree is your project, your story,

984
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 3: accountable to rules?

985
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 4: How much do you care about them?

986
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 3: Because I think about I think about really geeky sci

987
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 3: fi stories where they clearly care so much about the science, right,

988
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 3: that's what gives them that tingle in their spine, right.

989
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 3: And then I think about others where it's really just

990
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 3: there to be a metaphor, it really truly is, you know,

991
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 3: Like I remember, I might get in trouble for this.

992
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 3: I remember when I saw gravity. We got to the end,

993
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: and I was like, it was just a metaphor. There

994
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 3: was no space travel.

995
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 4: As far as I'm concerned, it was entirely a metaphor

996
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 4: about coming out of.

997
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 3: Grief, how one comes out of grief. When she walked

998
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 3: out of that water.

999
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 4: At the end, I was like, how she even alive?

1000
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 3: That's right, Oh, it's just a metaphor, just a metaphor,

1001
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,439
Speaker 3: And that's great. As long as the thing knows what

1002
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 3: it is, I think it holds up as a narrative.

1003
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: And I'm completely fine with the story existing in space

1004
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 3: and just being an emotional metaphor. And I'm completely fine

1005
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: with the meticulous math of you know, Chris Nolan figuring

1006
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 3: out exactly how many layers of reality he needs his

1007
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 3: characters to drop through.

1008
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 4: Where I'm like, oh my god, I can't. So it's

1009
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 4: like those rules, also, I think are so particular to

1010
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 4: the individual, and I think probably both Tatiana and I

1011
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 4: have worked for people who fall everywhere that spectrum of

1012
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 4: what it is they care about for the purposes of

1013
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 4: their story.

1014
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 3: And I find that it takes me a minute to

1015
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 3: calibrate my brain to oh, I may be more obsessed

1016
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 3: right now with the science than you are, and I'm

1017
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 3: going to have to just go icee ice, Ice. Okay,

1018
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 3: it's a different vibe. This is a different vibe of story.

1019
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: This is where this hangs out. Let me step back

1020
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: and try to place myself there, because again, I am

1021
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 3: of service, right, But it's so particular. It's it's such

1022
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 3: an interesting thing. It's voice. It's the artist's voice.

1023
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 5: So DT and I worked on Invasion for like eighteen

1024
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 5: months straight without break. I feel like add you were

1025
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 5: keeping us. You were like keeping us on track in

1026
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 5: terms of the whatever rules we had created for the world.

1027
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 5: You were like, but the rules, but but wait, why

1028
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 5: are we how could they possibly? No? I just remember

1029
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 5: a couple of times in ways from where you were like,

1030
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 5: my mind is exploding because how could possibly do this

1031
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 5: when we've said this about the world. So I think

1032
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 5: it was a very good You were great to have

1033
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 5: in the room because when we thought about it, we

1034
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 5: were like, she's.

1035
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: Right, I can't.

1036
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 5: They can't.

1037
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 4: It's true, they can't.

1038
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 5: Do what we want him to do. That's ridiculous.

1039
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 4: That's actually a really good thing.

1040
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 3: Also, in a TV writer's room, you can sort of

1041
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 3: have a variety of people who care about a variety

1042
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 3: of things, and they will give voice to those things,

1043
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 3: and then the showrunner, the lead artist, whoever the lead

1044
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 3: artist is, can be like, yep, I care about that.

1045
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 4: I don't care about that.

1046
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 3: I have care about that, And yes, I think my

1047
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 3: jam On actually probably a couple of shows I've worked on.

1048
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 4: Is but guys, the sciences, the rubles.

1049
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 5: I want to say that that's really important. And this

1050
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 5: is why, because whenever I've watched the show just as

1051
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 5: a viewer and the logic just doesn't add up with

1052
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 5: the rules that you've given me, I'm like, check out.

1053
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 5: I'm like, doesn't make sense. I stopped watching and start

1054
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 5: judging because I can't engage any longer because I've suspended

1055
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 5: my disbelief and you've given me rules, and I'm like, okay, great,

1056
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 5: I've got the rules of the world. I'm now going

1057
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 5: to you know, and the moment those things are start

1058
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 5: to fall away, you start to check in with reality

1059
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 5: and suspend your suspension of disbelief, is going like, oh

1060
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 5: shut up, that would never happen because you told me

1061
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 5: this before. So I think that that it is really important.

1062
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 5: And once again, as a ditt said, the showrunner will decide,

1063
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 5: you know, whether that's a rule that we want to

1064
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 5: sustain for a particular scene or not. But I think

1065
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 5: it's really important to keep that and you definitely did

1066
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 5: that for us in that room. So on behalf of everybody.

1067
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 2: Thank you, yes, thank you very much. Personally, as a scientist,

1068
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 2: whenever I see science fiction, I'm always trying to solve

1069
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 2: the puzzle. Why is it this way? What's going on?

1070
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: And if I feel like the rules aren't being followed,

1071
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: then I feel like it's the puzzles unsolvable, and then

1072
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 2: it's like I feel betrayed.

1073
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just a metaphors, just a metaphor.

1074
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,280
Speaker 2: So my last question for you is, having spent eighteen

1075
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: months working on this show and thinking deeply about Aliens

1076
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 2: and arrival and all this kind of stuff. If you

1077
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 2: heard that Aliens were arriving, would you think, ye, good

1078
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 2: news for Earth, We're going to learn secrets of the universe,

1079
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: or a bad news We're going to be lunch.

1080
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: Definitely bad news.

1081
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 5: I was going to say the same, but only because

1082
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 5: we did spend that amount of time being like, you know,

1083
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 5: all these horrible things happening on Earth, and there were

1084
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 5: so many downsides to that. How that ends up in

1085
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 5: the story is a different story altogether. But you know what,

1086
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 5: it's also because of so because so much sci fi

1087
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 5: depicts the other the visitors as evil, I think my

1088
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 5: first thought would be nothing good could come out of us,

1089
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 5: But I want to be proven wrong. I there everybody

1090
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 5: out there if they could listen to this podcast to pen,

1091
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 5: I love for you to come and have coffee with

1092
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 5: us and prove me wrong that there is much to

1093
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 5: learn from other people and beings and that they may

1094
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 5: possibly could learn something from us, if I could be

1095
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 5: so arrogant to say that.

1096
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 3: So this probably falls back into my but we're cosmic

1097
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 3: dust thing. Have you guys read this really really kind

1098
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: of fascinating thinky sci fi novel called The Sparrow. It's

1099
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 3: Mary Doria, Maria Doria Russell. Mary's something Doria Russell apologies,

1100
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 3: I should fix that. So I think colonialism is why

1101
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,439
Speaker 3: I think it's bad news. Not because they come here

1102
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 3: because they're determined to wipe us out with their amazing

1103
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 3: super weapons, necessarily because that feels again very human centric

1104
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 3: to me, but because is there a story of first

1105
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 3: contact that we know that hasn't resulted in some couldn't

1106
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 3: have foreseen it disaster.

1107
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: Not with humans involved.

1108
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 4: Now, I don't know if.

1109
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 3: We're going to be bad for them or they're going

1110
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: to be bad for us. But if they're coming, I'm

1111
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 3: going to say they're the colonizers. But even if they

1112
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 3: come with the best of intentions, you know, that the

1113
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: smallpox are coming, you know what.

1114
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: I mean, like cosmic smallpox.

1115
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 4: I don't see how that's not the case.

1116
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 3: And that was sort of the kind of inner workings

1117
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 3: theme of the well intentioned space travelers in the Sparrow,

1118
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 3: which I thought was a really clever novel, really kind

1119
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: of like well etched story.

1120
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 5: So what do you think, Dan, would you think if

1121
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 5: you know they came to visit they what's your take

1122
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 5: on it.

1123
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 2: I think there's an incredible opportunity there to learn about

1124
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: the universe from a really alien perspective. I think so

1125
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 2: much of our science is probably colored by our humanity

1126
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 2: in a way that we can never unravel, in the

1127
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 2: way that you can never really see your own cultures

1128
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 2: imprint on your choices and your values. So I think

1129
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: there's an incredible opportunity there. But I think it's much

1130
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: more likely that if they do come, they will be

1131
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: so alien and so other that we will never be

1132
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: able to communicate with them and learn those secrets if

1133
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: they do have them, and probably, you know, we'll end

1134
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 2: up like in that Far Side cartoon where they look

1135
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: like a hand and some farmer picks them up and

1136
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 2: shakes them and dooms the earth to devastation, you know,

1137
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: some simple mistake of miscommunication, disaster. You don't know every

1138
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 2: Far Side cartoon by heart that it depicts aliens. Oh

1139
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: my gosh, But I'm an optimist at heart, and I'm

1140
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 2: looking forward to it. If aliens come, then at least

1141
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: we will have learned one thing about the universe, which

1142
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: is there are aliens. So before we get zapped from orbit,

1143
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: you know, we'll have gained a tiny bit of knowledge.

1144
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 5: So somebody can ask what to kiss a long exactly?

1145
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 3: Do you think we'd accurately be able to identify them

1146
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 3: as Like? Do you think we even have the ability

1147
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 3: to identify life as life?

1148
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

1149
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 2: Like, we don't even know what life is. We can't

1150
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 2: even define it very well. So part of that learning

1151
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: would be understanding what kind of things we can discover

1152
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: and we can't discover, and you know where those boundaries are.

1153
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 2: The more we learn about life, the more we realize

1154
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: we should be looking for it in all sorts of way.

1155
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 5: Your places, it assumes that they are, like there's some

1156
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 5: sort of degree of consciousness, right, So we just don't

1157
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 5: know what package it would come in.

1158
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 4: Guys.

1159
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: Earlier today I was walking around in my backyard, and

1160
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: I think I stepped on an alien and wept out

1161
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 3: an entire species.

1162
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 4: And that's the end of that. It looked like dust.

1163
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 4: It was dust.

1164
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: How many times have you done that without even knowing?

1165
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 4: So many?

1166
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: All right, well, thanks very much for sharing all of

1167
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: your thoughts about your process, about your experience and the

1168
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 2: philosophy of Star Trek. Really appreciate your time and your

1169
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: jokes and for sharing your gift of writing with us.

1170
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 3: Thank you for having us this, Yeah, thank you?

1171
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: All right, pretty invasive conversation, sort of are they actually aliens?

1172
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: Do you think? Is that how they know so much?

1173
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: Well? On the video, they seemed like humans and they

1174
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: definitely had a human sense of humor, and you could

1175
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 2: tell that they really enjoyed working together. They spent a

1176
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 2: lot of time in that writer's room together, hammered a

1177
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 2: lot of stuff out, and they got pretty deep and philosophical.

1178
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: So this is a pretty thoughtful group.

1179
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 5: All right.

1180
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: Well, the show is called Invasion. It's on Apple TV.

1181
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: You can check out the second season right.

1182
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 2: Now, that's right, And if you are a fan of

1183
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: science fiction and you like these episodes, right to me

1184
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 2: to send your recommendations. For authors and writers we should

1185
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 2: talk to. Send it to questions at Danielandjorge dot com.

1186
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: All right, well, we hope you enjoyed that, and next

1187
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: time you look up to this guy, you think about

1188
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: who might be out there and what might happen if

1189
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: they come visit us or if we come visit them. Eventually.

1190
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time.

1191
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 2: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social media,

1192
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter,

1193
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 2: disc Word, Insta, and now TikTok. Happy holidays from everyone

1194
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: here at the podcast. If you're looking for a science

1195
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 2: themed gift for someone in your family, or just to

1196
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 2: treat yourself, please consider buying one of our books. Our

1197
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: first book, We Have No explores all of the things

1198
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: science does and doesn't know about the world, from what

1199
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 2: is mass to what happened before the Big Bang. It's

1200
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: essential reading for fans of the podcast, and it's filled

1201
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: with lots of hilarious cartoons drawn by Jorge, which you'll

1202
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 2: miss if you only listen to the pod. And it's

1203
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: available in dozens of languages, from Greek to Korean to English.

1204
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: Of course, and this is an audiobook read by me

1205
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: so check out. We have no idea our second book

1206
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: frequently ask questions about the universe answers many of the

1207
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: common questions we get from listeners. Where's the center of

1208
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 2: the universe? Why can't we travel through time? What happens

1209
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: if you fall into a black hole? Frequently Ask questions

1210
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 2: about the universe is also available in audio and in

1211
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: many many languages. So treat yourself for your family to

1212
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 2: a dose of science and humor this year. If we

1213
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 2: have no idea or frequently ask questions about the universe,

1214
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 2: available at reputable and disreputable booksellers everywhere. They make a

1215
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 2: wonderful gift for you, and it's the best way to

1216
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 2: support your favorite pot. Happy holidays.

1217
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 6: Hi, this is Kelly Wienersmith.

1218
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 7: You may remember me from such dju conversations as that

1219
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 7: one time Daniel said something that would scare my kids,

1220
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 7: or that other time Daniel said something about how we're

1221
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 7: all gonna.

1222
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 6: Die, which would probably scare my kids.

1223
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 7: Anyway, my husband and I wrote a book about the biological, psychological, technical, legal,

1224
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 7: and ethical issues we still need to solve before we

1225
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 7: settle space. The book is called A City on Mars,

1226
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 7: and the bottom half of the expanses.

1227
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 6: James sa Corey liked it, so we think you should too.

1228
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: Thanks, and remember that Daniel and Jorge explain The Universe

1229
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1230
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1231
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: into your favorite shows.

1232
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: Hey Tore from the podcast. This holiday season, if you're

1233
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: looking for a great gift for your kids, give him

1234
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: a copy of Oliver's Great Big Universe, my new book

1235
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: filled with signs, cartoons, and a hilarious story. It's a

1236
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: big hit with kids and curious adults who love to read,

1237
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: so check it out at Great Big Universe dot net.