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Speaker 1: The Marlins just barely missed making the playoffs here in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, Yet the show goes on. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the official show here on the Fish on First podcast channel. I,

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Speaker 1: of course, Eli Sussman still here with you, bring you

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Speaker 1: all your Miami Marlins coverage all year round Fish on

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Speaker 1: First dot Com. Despite being so far removed from the

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Speaker 1: playoff picture this year, the Marlins is very much in

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Speaker 1: the news this past week for wholesale changes making. They're

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Speaker 1: being made to so many different departments of this organization.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get some perspective on all those changes

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Speaker 1: from somebody that it was part of those changes. An

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Speaker 1: outgoing analytics guy, Bradley Woodrum right here, recently unemployed after

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Speaker 1: being with the Marlins for parts of seven seasons, most

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Speaker 1: recently the we get this right the coordinator of Baseball

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Speaker 1: Information Services, and we're recording this right before Hurricane Milton

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Speaker 1: makes its impact. So we're gonna try to be concise

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Speaker 1: about here, and if anybody watching or listening to this,

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Speaker 1: hoping that all goes well through the storm on your

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Speaker 1: end and specifically on Brad's end right here, I appreciate

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Speaker 1: you so much making the time to join us and

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Speaker 1: just give us your perspective on being with the Marlins

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Speaker 1: for so long.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you so much. Yeah, So, I guess my

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Speaker 2: high level resume is that I was spending my evenings

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Speaker 2: as a baseball writer before being hired by the Marlins,

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Speaker 2: and I was writing for Fangrafts doing research for MLB

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Speaker 2: trade rumors, and I saw an opening with the Marlins,

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Speaker 2: and so I joined back in twenty eighteen. And it

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Speaker 2: was a wild write honestly, Like, I have no regrets.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the frustrations I have are more like

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Speaker 2: I wish we had performed better while I was there,

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Speaker 2: and in terms of the work at that I saw

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Speaker 2: from everybody involved, Like it's just it's a difficult industry

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Speaker 2: by design. Everybody's trying their absolute best, and everybody's hungry

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Speaker 2: and there's a lot of intelligent, hardworking people on every

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Speaker 2: team and so but yeah, definitely it's been it's been

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Speaker 2: a tough week or two now. We've seen a great

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Speaker 2: deal of turnover with the Marlins, and I'm one of

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Speaker 2: those folks who has endured the turnover. But I'm super

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Speaker 2: grateful to be on this podcast. By the way, as

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Speaker 2: somebody who for seven years was a fan of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed the content that you guys created, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's eli You've been a fantastic voice of

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Speaker 2: reason and times when it felt like the maybe the

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Speaker 2: national media was a little more uninformed or quick to

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Speaker 2: judge on some things that we were doing our best on.

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Speaker 2: So I really appreciate the effort that you have put

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Speaker 2: into these past seven years. Absolutely well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, And I've been aware of you, Brad for

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Speaker 1: quite a while now. But on your way out this

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Speaker 1: Reddit AMA discussing your time in reaction to our isaacah

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Speaker 1: Zoo kind of talking about how all the changes that

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Speaker 1: were being made, you put yourself out there in this

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Speaker 1: AMA that touches on a lot of the topics. Will

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Speaker 1: be going to hear about your time and your experience

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Speaker 1: with certain people with this Marlins organization, and you were clear,

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Speaker 1: just as you are now in this AMA that you

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Speaker 1: had a good experience with the team. If anybody out

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Speaker 1: there listening had a different experience working with the Marlins

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Speaker 1: and they want to discuss it with us, I would

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Speaker 1: just want to get the everybody's perspective on this. So

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Speaker 1: those people are welcome to reach out to me separately,

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Speaker 1: but This is about your experience in analytics and with

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Speaker 1: this team for parts of seven years across several different

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Speaker 1: baseball operations administrations right here, and I'm going to link

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Speaker 1: this in the description for people that haven't read it

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Speaker 1: themselves if they want some separate conversations and exchanges that is,

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Speaker 1: we'll make that available to you right here. But I

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Speaker 1: want to get into stuff that I think, specifically for

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Speaker 1: our audience is going to be really interesting. You touched

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Speaker 1: on it already in that very general intro about getting

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Speaker 1: hired in the first place. There are no doubt a

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Speaker 1: lot of people watching this, especially their Marlins fans, that

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Speaker 1: are interested in getting a job in baseball, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: specifically with the Marlins. If you could get into a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about why it is that you were

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Speaker 1: interested in that Marlins opening, specifically, what was that job

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Speaker 1: opening at the time, because around a while that maybe

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Speaker 1: your role has changed quite a bit. If you should

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Speaker 1: just get a little bit more absolutely why you think

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Speaker 1: they actually hired you in the first place back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I think that's a great question, and I

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Speaker 2: know that's one of the questions I get the most consistently,

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Speaker 2: is like, how do I break into the industry, how

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Speaker 2: do I get the job that you had, Bradley. And

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Speaker 2: the truth is is like everybody's journey is going to

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Speaker 2: be their own, and so it's worth knowing where your

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Speaker 2: skill sets lay. What you know you can bring to

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Speaker 2: a table to help a club out. What I was

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Speaker 2: doing specifically may not be of interest to a club

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Speaker 2: for the next five six years, or like maybe they've

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Speaker 2: got somebody in place. But if you have a skill

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Speaker 2: set that they don't have, then you don't want to

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Speaker 2: try to replicate what I did. But that said, I

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Speaker 2: graduated with an economics degree but also a creative writing degree.

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Speaker 2: I have a master's degree in both of those fields.

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Speaker 2: And it was one of those spaces where I felt

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Speaker 2: like there was an intersection of both analytics work and

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Speaker 2: communication that I could bring to a club, and it

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Speaker 2: was something I had been doing in the public space.

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Speaker 2: When I was originally hired by the Marlins, I was

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Speaker 2: brought in to help expand analytics department that I think

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Speaker 2: was like two to three people strong, so like it

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Speaker 2: was a really small, undersized department, and by the time

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Speaker 2: I left, the department had like seven folks working in

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Speaker 2: Miami and then another like seven working outside Miami with

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Speaker 2: them doing a lot more highert bringing more folks.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: Granted there's been turnover and that number is gonna fluctuate,

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Speaker 2: but I think the ambition now is to get it

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Speaker 2: closer to a twenty to forty type person department, which,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, like that's what we'd been asking for

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Speaker 2: for years because we were in a lot of different hats.

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Speaker 2: My title Coordinative Baseball Information Services was something that we

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Speaker 2: kind of worked on to invent something to better and

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Speaker 2: encapsulate what I was doing because I wasn't doing just

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Speaker 2: the normal work of a senior analyst. I was working

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Speaker 2: in Tableau as the lead Tableau developer to create visualizations

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Speaker 2: that was feeding into reports that went to executives, advanced

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Speaker 2: documents that went to coaches and players, as well as

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Speaker 2: just internal tools that we were using to help write

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Speaker 2: analysis on players as well. So obviously, like each club's

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Speaker 2: got their own mindset, each club has their own design

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Speaker 2: for that department. And so what your skill sets might be,

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Speaker 2: maybe you are a database engineer, or maybe you are

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Speaker 2: somebody who likes to write up reports or something like that.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a skill that

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Speaker 2: a club's gonna need it may mean actually it's a

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Speaker 2: skill that they really need. But you want to lean

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Speaker 2: into the things that a you like to do, like

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Speaker 2: if you're doing something you don't like to do. That's

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Speaker 2: the thing I got like over by the minds that

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Speaker 2: immediately went right back to baseball analysis, Like I can't

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Speaker 2: help myself. I love it. I have a YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: I've already posted a couple of videos on there. And

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Speaker 2: it's just like, if I wasn't doing this for the Marlins,

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Speaker 2: I was going to be doing it in my free

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Speaker 2: time anyway. So what I was doing for the ten

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Speaker 2: years leading up to working for the Marlins. So you

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Speaker 2: got to make sure you're pursuing that thing you like

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Speaker 2: to do, because if you end up being successful, you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have a winner's curse if you're doing something you

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Speaker 2: hate doing and you're successful and you actually get that job.

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Speaker 2: So but that said, all of that said, I interviewed

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Speaker 2: gosh hundreds of candidates and reviewed over fifteen hundred resumes

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Speaker 2: by my last count while I was with the Marlins

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Speaker 2: to help fill out positions. My experience was limited to

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Speaker 2: what it is like working for the Marlins, right, I

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Speaker 2: don't know what the Yankees hiring process is or what

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Speaker 2: the Rays do. I know what the Marlins were doing

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Speaker 2: for those seven years, and I also know what kind

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Speaker 2: of resumes. I saw a lot in that period of time,

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Speaker 2: so it's I think that can be helpful information. And

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Speaker 2: what I saw is there's a lot of folks coming

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Speaker 2: from college who don't have necessarily a portfolio of their

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Speaker 2: work built up. And I know that like that sucks

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Speaker 2: when you need to build up a portfolio of work.

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Speaker 2: That might be like a bunch of free work you're doing,

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Speaker 2: But even just creating a blog that's got two readers

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Speaker 2: on it, three readers, it doesn't really matter if you're

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Speaker 2: creating a body of work to show that you can

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Speaker 2: do baseball analysis, to show that you know how to

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Speaker 2: code and Python, or are that's going to be very

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Speaker 2: valuable in separating your resume out from other candidates resumes.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sorry I can really dietribe here. I don't

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Speaker 2: mean to run off the rails here, but I will

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Speaker 2: say that when I first came to the club, I

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Speaker 2: was hired as an analyst, and at that point I

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Speaker 2: had already been a baseball writer for ten years. I

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Speaker 2: had just published some Tommy John Research. A second revision

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Speaker 2: of it on MLB Trade Rumors, which is incredibly prestigious

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Speaker 2: location to be publishing research in the first place. It's

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Speaker 2: an incredibly high traffic baseball website, and it was a

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Speaker 2: research product that used machine learning algorithms to try to

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Speaker 2: predict the next case of Tommy John surgery. So like

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Speaker 2: that kind of research in the public space. Obviously, when

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Speaker 2: you're doing it in that public of a space, you

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Speaker 2: get a lot of criticism and feedback, which can be

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Speaker 2: really helpful to make you better or really hurtful to

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Speaker 2: make you give up on everything. But thankfully I had

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Speaker 2: a lot of positive feedback, and that made it so

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Speaker 2: that when I applied to the Marlins, they knew who

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Speaker 2: I was. And even folks who have really small blogs,

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Speaker 2: you'd be surprised who that two person readership is. It

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Speaker 2: might actually be an executive like I myself was visiting

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Speaker 2: really small blogs. If they were writing about the Marlins,

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Speaker 2: I was intrigued to know why did they think Tim

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Speaker 2: Anderson was struggling? Why did they think Jesus Sanchez's batted

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Speaker 2: ball metrics were different from the on field performance. Like

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Speaker 2: that kind of information we're searching it out. We're constantly

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Speaker 2: digging into it. And yeah, you can see the article

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Speaker 2: here that predicting Tommy John surgeries. It was a really

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Speaker 2: difficult task. I don't think I actually fully answered the

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Speaker 2: question there, But at the same time I was able

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Speaker 2: to demonstrate I knew how to code and are I

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Speaker 2: knew how to do machine learning algorithms, and I knew

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Speaker 2: how to write up those reports in a way that

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Speaker 2: could be understood by a general population. Because the readership

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Speaker 2: of trade rumors at that ranges a broad spectrum of

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Speaker 2: baseball fans. So I always encourage folks, encourage them to

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Speaker 2: build that portfolio, show us what you can do. Maybe

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Speaker 2: that's a GitHub, maybe that's a personal blog, maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a YouTube channel. Doesn't really necessarily matter what you ultimately make.

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Speaker 2: As long as it's something you're enjoying to do, you're

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Speaker 2: going to find that eventually success can flow out of

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Speaker 2: that space. The original question, I can't even remember what

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Speaker 2: it was, but I'm just gonna dietrup for another one

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Speaker 2: more second here, And that is one of the big

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Speaker 2: problems with the industry, and something that very much frustrated me,

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Speaker 2: is there is a significant pay gap between what teams

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Speaker 2: are willing to play pay people and what skill sets

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Speaker 2: might actually demand. If you were wanting to work in baseball,

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Speaker 2: you need to recognize that there is a fifty to

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Speaker 2: seventy five percent discount on what you're actually worth to

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Speaker 2: the market in terms of your skill sets. I was

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Speaker 2: working as an economist for the Air Force, and I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna divulge my salaries here, and I hope that's

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Speaker 2: helpful to folks, and I hope they also keep in

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Speaker 2: mind this is from twenty seventeen twenty eighteen kind of timeline,

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Speaker 2: so the inflation and whatnot has changed these numbers. But

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Speaker 2: I was making seventy thousand dollars as a economist for

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Speaker 2: the Air Force, and I was working as a filthy

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Speaker 2: government contractor. But when I was hired by the Marlins,

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Speaker 2: I had to take a fifty percent pay cut. They

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Speaker 2: paid me thirty five K to work as an analyst.

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Speaker 2: That's actually better than a lot of entry level pay rates.

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Speaker 2: Most entry level folks are coming in as a minimum

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Speaker 2: wage intern I personally find that to be like morally

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Speaker 2: problematic as the multimillion dollar industry, a multi billion dollar

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Speaker 2: industry paying folks minimum wage and asking them to work,

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Speaker 2: and the expectation is you're working weekends, you're working seventy

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Speaker 2: two one hundred hours a week. I was hired brought

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Speaker 2: in at thirty five K. I made it clear to

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Speaker 2: them initially like I have a wife and a kid,

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Speaker 2: like I can't I can't survive at this pay rate

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Speaker 2: for a long time. So they were able to get

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Speaker 2: me to seventy K as a senior analyst, and then

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Speaker 2: from my second year with the club to the two

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Speaker 2: weeks ago when they let me go, I only went

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Speaker 2: from seventy K to ninety two K. My promotion to

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Speaker 2: coordinator of Baseball Information Services was a promotion and name only.

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Speaker 2: I got no pay raise with it, and that said

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Speaker 2: that ninety two K that I was making by the

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Speaker 2: end there meant that my salary was worth threeish interns.

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Speaker 2: So it is one of those tough things that the industry.

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Speaker 2: We get. Within the first seventy two hours of any

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Speaker 2: opening that we posted, we got over three hundred applications,

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Speaker 2: And so if you want to work in baseball, make

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Speaker 2: sure you're applying in the first twenty four hours, keep

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Speaker 2: an eye on all the openings that are out there,

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Speaker 2: but also just be aware that like your expectation for

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Speaker 2: income needs to be on the floor. Because if I

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Speaker 2: didn't have a wife who was able to support me

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Speaker 2: as I was working as a baseball analyst, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if we would have been able to make things

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Speaker 2: work as neatly as Because they often these jobs take

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Speaker 2: place in major metropolitan cities, it tends to be very

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Speaker 2: expensive to live in those locations. I'm sure my family

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Speaker 2: out in Mississippi hearing me making thirty five k sounds great,

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Speaker 2: But like in Jupiter, Florida, where I was living, that's

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Speaker 2: an incredibly expensive area. When we lef Jupiter, we sold

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Speaker 2: our house for more money than we can afford to

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Speaker 2: buy it back. So like it's it's just that's the

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Speaker 2: nature of the industry. So I can't remember what the

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Speaker 2: original question is, and I apologize for going on a

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Speaker 2: long ramp, but that's something I really want to get

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Speaker 2: out there. I'm a big believer in labor rights, and

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Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in the labor not having enough

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Speaker 2: power in this situation. So I want to empower folks

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Speaker 2: by letting them know what I made and what that

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Speaker 2: looks like. To get into that industry.

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Speaker 1: Right and as best you can understand that you don't

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Speaker 1: feel that this is a Marlin specific problem that across baseball,

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Speaker 1: that this is just the reality because of the leverage

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Speaker 1: that these teams have. And I've heard that demands that

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Speaker 1: people have.

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Speaker 2: I've heard that some teams pay more than others. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it is a matter of like, again, of those

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Speaker 2: three hundred applications that we would get in the first

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Speaker 2: seventy two hours, the you know, the majority of them

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Speaker 2: were people who were actually overqualified. And I've had folks

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Speaker 2: reach out to me who got to like the final

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Speaker 2: stage of the interview and they're like, hey, why didn't

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Speaker 2: I get hired? And first of all, I wasn't able

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Speaker 2: to really say a lot of specifics. But secondly, the

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Speaker 2: real reason most of the time was like we're splitting hairs.

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Speaker 2: You're all super overqualified for any opening that we're hiring.

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Speaker 2: We often got college professors, people with PhDs, known baseball bloggers,

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Speaker 2: known baseball writers applying to internship level positions. And so

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Speaker 2: when the industry has that much demand to work in it,

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Speaker 2: they know they don't have to pay a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: And I've heard it said two and I don't agree

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Speaker 2: with this personally, but I've heard it said that like

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Speaker 2: you want to pay them little so that you end

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Speaker 2: up filtering down to just the people who really want

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Speaker 2: to work in baseball. And I would hope that like

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Speaker 2: anybody who's applying is already like really eager to work

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Speaker 2: in baseball. There are times where I think the business

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Speaker 2: side of a baseball organization can be more like a

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Speaker 2: job to folks, whereas the operations baseball operations, because each

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Speaker 2: club is split into like two major silos, baseball ops

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Speaker 2: and business ops. Business ops seales tickets and billboards, and

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Speaker 2: they do a lot of like the you know, keeping

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Speaker 2: the lights on kind of work. Baseball ops is all

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Speaker 2: about making a winning team. People who work in baseball

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Speaker 2: ops they're living their dream. I was in the major

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Speaker 2: leagues of my career field for seven years, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's pretty legit. I'm super happy that I got

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Speaker 2: that experience. For people working on the business ops side,

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Speaker 2: I mean a lot of those folks that you know,

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Speaker 2: they got a business degree, maybe baseball is in their

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Speaker 2: passion and that's fine, Like they don't have to So

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Speaker 2: that's a different kind of a duality within the organization sometimes.

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Speaker 2: But and I've heard that's again like that's a truism

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Speaker 2: across the sport, but for for folks in baseball's you

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Speaker 2: kind of it has to be your passion because the

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Speaker 2: expectations are so extreme in terms of the amount of

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Speaker 2: hours you're continent to it, in terms of your knowledge

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Speaker 2: of the game and your ability to like watch every

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Speaker 2: single game and continue to learn and adapt and and

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Speaker 2: if you're not hungry for it for the time that

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Speaker 2: you're working for the club, you end up burning out.

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Speaker 2: And it because it is. It's I will say, for

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Speaker 2: seven years, I didn't work a day in my life,

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Speaker 2: even though I was spending over one hundred hours a week,

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Speaker 2: you know, working, So it is. It's tough because like

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Speaker 2: I loved what I did, But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I also recognize that, like that's what made me somewhat replaceable.

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Speaker 2: Is there's a lot of people who want to do this,

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Speaker 2: who love to do this, and I think they're looking

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Speaker 2: to realign a lot of the skill sets that are

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Speaker 2: within that analytics apartment. So that resulted in, unfortunately, in

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Speaker 2: a lot of turnover.

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Speaker 1: We're with Bradley Woodsrum, formerly of the Marlins, and he's

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Speaker 1: already given me so much. You've already picked apart so

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Speaker 1: many the items that I had spread out like across

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Speaker 1: to discuss in one paro. So no, E've been at

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Speaker 1: the same time long winded but also extremely efficient and

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Speaker 1: touching on things that I think people really care about

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Speaker 1: and are interested in. I did want to get your

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Speaker 1: take on some individual people that you corresponded with being

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Speaker 1: in Baseball OPS. There were several different changes during the

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Speaker 1: course of your time there. Starting with initially was Michael Hill,

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Speaker 1: who was the President of Baseball Operations at the time

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Speaker 1: for those first three years or so with the organization,

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Speaker 1: and he's somebody that comes from primarily a scouting background.

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious one at a time, from him Kim

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Speaker 1: Ang to Peter Bendix, what sort of interactions did you

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Speaker 1: have with him those first few years with the organization?

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Speaker 1: Who exactly did you work closely with, and who did

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Speaker 1: you report to? What exactly was the jobs as an

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Speaker 1: analyst in what you were doing. But of course, as

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Speaker 1: you already touched on having responsibilities beyond that, was that

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Speaker 1: like initially for a department when the department was still

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Speaker 1: very small.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say that for six of my

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Speaker 2: seven years it was an incredibly small department and the

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Speaker 2: final year, it did balloon up and I ended up

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Speaker 2: with quite a few direct reports, which was really awesome.

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Speaker 2: Finally able to like do some stuff in the play

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Speaker 2: development space, specifically where I was. I was focused in

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Speaker 2: on that we couldn't have done in the past because

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Speaker 2: I was spread so thin. But like, because of those

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Speaker 2: six years with a smaller department, like we all wore

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Speaker 2: many hats. We worked a lot of different folks. I

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Speaker 2: worked a lot with not a lot. I worked with

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Speaker 2: mister Hill on various projects. I was one of the analysts. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I was the analyst who was doing analysis of what

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Speaker 2: moving the outfield walls might result in in our hopes

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Speaker 2: of improving the offensive situation. And in lone Depot Park

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Speaker 2: we considered things like moving home plate further out as well,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I think the cost situation of that,

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Speaker 2: like moving natural foul poles, was too prohibitive, and honestly,

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Speaker 2: creating that much foul territory behind home plate would have

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Speaker 2: also had a potentially negligible impact on the offense because

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Speaker 2: you get home runs a little bit closer, but you

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Speaker 2: end up a lot more popouts. Anyway, that's a totally

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Speaker 2: another I will get absent minded professor really quick, So

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Speaker 2: I apologize that said Michael Hill. I really love Michael Hill.

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Speaker 2: He's a fantastic thinker. He's an exceptional negotiator, and just

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Speaker 2: like a there are personality types that I came to

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Speaker 2: kind of associate with general manager POBO types, and he,

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Speaker 2: Kim and Peter are all cut from a very similar cloth.

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Speaker 2: They're very even keeled, they're thoughtful, they're patient, and I

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Speaker 2: think that kind of mentality is really essential. I can

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Speaker 2: only think of, like I've sat on a number of calls,

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Speaker 2: to my estimation, only Alex Anthropolos seems like the high

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Speaker 2: energy GM. Everybody else seems to be really in that

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Speaker 2: same sort of zone of like even keeled, thoughtful, patient,

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Speaker 2: And you know, there's a lot of lawyers in that

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Speaker 2: space who know how to be careful in negotiation, and

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Speaker 2: so Michael will incredibly smart guy. I think one of

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Speaker 2: the the great frustrations was that we multiple times during

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Speaker 2: my tenure lost I think some exceptionally talented folks, Michael Hill,

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Speaker 2: Kim being a big notable one as well, and the

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Speaker 2: organization obviously wanted her back, but obviously in a different capacity,

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Speaker 2: and that wasn't the right fit. But so yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think with Hill and honestly with Kim, there was a mindset,

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Speaker 2: especially as it pertained to my department, that analytics was

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Speaker 2: one of the tools we're going to take into battle

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Speaker 2: with us. It was one of the pieces to the puzzle.

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Speaker 2: And I think the big paradigm shift and the thing

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Speaker 2: that ultimately maybe resulted in the rift that developed between

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Speaker 2: Derek and the other owners was there was a desire

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Speaker 2: to develop analytics not as a tool, but as the

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Speaker 2: glue that held everything together. And I'll be honest like,

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Speaker 2: I'm sympathetic to that mindset. I think that's why I

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Speaker 2: really have high hopes for where the Marlins are still going,

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Speaker 2: even though they're going to be unfortunately going without me.

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Speaker 2: But I think Peter sees analytics as this unifying force

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Speaker 2: that is ingesting scouting reports, is ingesting reports from the coaches,

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Speaker 2: is ingesting data in a way that then becomes actionable.

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Speaker 2: And you know, not to get like history lesson on this,

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Speaker 2: but like branch Ricky is arguably like the original analyst

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Speaker 2: general manager. He is the general manager for many of

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Speaker 2: the historical franchises that were so great, the Gas House Gang, Cardinals,

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Speaker 2: the Brooklyn Dodgers, when Jackie Robinson integrated. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's it's important to know that branch Ricky was using

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Speaker 2: on base percentage, he was using scouting reports. He's the

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Speaker 2: one who invented the twenty eighty scale. That mindset of saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: there's information out there, how do I bring it together?

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Speaker 2: How do I combine it? And I think that's the

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Speaker 2: direction Peter's going with this is he wants to take

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Speaker 2: information from every absolute possible location, assimilate it all, and

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Speaker 2: that take that assimilation and then apply it in a

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Speaker 2: way that's action effective. That mentality takes analytics from being

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Speaker 2: a tool chest a voice in the room, to being

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Speaker 2: the the power that the actual process that brings that

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Speaker 2: information together in a way that combines it, assesses the

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Speaker 2: validity and impact of each of those different pieces of information,

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Speaker 2: and then applies it in a way that's meaningful. So

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Speaker 2: that that like I don't know if that sounds too nuanceing,

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Speaker 2: but like that's the difference in that I saw. It's

434
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 2: not that Kim and mister Hill or Derek didn't use

435
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 2: analytics at their disposal like that. We we created a

436
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 2: ton of analytics tools that you know, we Mel was

437
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: using analytics to help create cy Young pictures, like it

438
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: was very much a piece of the puzzle for all

439
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 2: those years. But that paradigm shift also comes with sort

440
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 2: of a different expectation in staffing. And I think one

441
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: of the things that Kim had said to me even directly,

442
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 2: is like the idea is having a smaller, more lean

443
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 2: front office makes sense because it can help you know,

444
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 2: coalesce that decision making power, which I think there is

445
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 2: some truth to that, but there's also like the flip

446
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 2: side of that coin, and like there were just so

447
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: many projects we couldn't get done because we just didn't

448
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 2: have enough staffing. And while it was great that I

449
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: had I had a finger on the pulse of a

450
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 2: lot of different projects, I had the ability to weigh

451
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: in on things that would have been normally out of

452
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: my scope in a larger analytics department, it also meant that,

453
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 2: like there were just so many things that coaches would

454
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: ask us for, like scouts would want that players could

455
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 2: use that we just simply didn't have time to build out.

456
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 2: So we had to build the essentials, which was great

457
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: because then you like, really you do that process of

458
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: thinking through what is essential, what isn't essential, and we

459
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: for many years operated on a lean analytics department. Relative

460
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 2: to the league. We were one of the smallest ones

461
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: in the league, but we were punching above our weight.

462
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 2: That's why everything we heard from any player that we

463
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: brought in from another organization as wow, you guys' stuff

464
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: is as good or better than this other analytically leaning

465
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: organization I just came from, and that we took pride

466
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: in that as our department. Like we you know, we

467
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: recognized we were seven strong, but we were gonna make it,

468
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: you know, work. We were going to over leverage our

469
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 2: abilities here and we did. But at the same time,

470
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: we also like couldn't embed analysts at Triple A and

471
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: Double A and HYA like a lot of other clubs

472
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: are starting to do. We had video managers at those levels.

473
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 2: We didn't have an analyst who could sit and talk

474
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: through track man data or pitch shapes with a pitcher

475
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 2: or played approach with a hitter. And and this last

476
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: year we did. And I think that's part of what

477
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: Peter's doing. He's helping flesh out I mean, one of

478
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: the greatest frustrations that I myself had, and I think

479
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: anybody who worked with this club in this last seven years,

480
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 2: would echo is that we didn't develop hitters. It was

481
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 2: really frustrating. We we spent twice as much in the

482
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: draft on position players than we did on pitchers, and

483
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 2: yet our draft products that kept making the majors was

484
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: Nick Fortes and a bunch of pitchers. And the same

485
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: was happening in the international space too, And so that

486
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 2: degree of frustration was real, and it was real inside

487
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: the Org, even probably more so than publicly was being

488
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: talked about. But at the same time, like it also is,

489
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: it's frustrating to look around the league and see Stone, Garrett,

490
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: JJ Blade, other players position players who were in our

491
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,239
Speaker 2: system who started to come up with us and then

492
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: ended up having success elsewhere, in part because maybe we

493
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: pulled the trigger on getting a little too scared away

494
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 2: too early, but also in part because, like I think,

495
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: we lacked the resources in the player development pipeline to

496
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: really affect the changes that we wanted. I think there

497
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: was also, maybe to a degree, an overly optimistic hope

498
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 2: that we can improve strikeout rates in the minors, and

499
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: that was, you know, something we had really hoped was possible,

500
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: and it would have made the difference with Monte Harrison

501
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: and Lewis Princeton. Those guys would have been absolute rockstar

502
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 2: superstars if we had just been able to get that

503
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: ball and play a little bit more often for either

504
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: of those guys, Isan Diaz and in that same bucket.

505
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: But at the same time, those kinds of intellectual mistakes

506
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: are very different from just not having enough manpower to

507
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 2: affect the changes that we knew would make a difference

508
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: for JJ Blede And so all that said, JJ's awesome

509
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 2: and I'm super much I'm rooting for him a ton,

510
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: and it's it's very fun to see his success with

511
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: Oakland right now.

512
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: I think people listening to this are going to be

513
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: pretty amazed by how similar your The way that you

514
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: process this stuff is so similar to the fans themselves

515
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: in terms of taking notice of how other guys do

516
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: once they lead the organization and having those exact same

517
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: concerns about how close guys may have been to turning

518
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: a corner here and what really was the issue. And

519
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 1: you already started off by kind of dispelling the myth

520
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: that for all the money that the Marlins say they're

521
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: investing internally, you know, you know, on an individual per

522
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: analyst basis that's kind of limited because they're able to

523
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: get people relatively cheap salaries compared to other industries. But

524
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: what other ways would you be able to spend money

525
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: on analytics or spend money as an organization in ways

526
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: that would either catch up to other teams or surpass

527
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: other teams?

528
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: Is it?

529
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: What kind of technology did you guys want that could

530
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: have maybe made a difference aside from just hiring more

531
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: and more bullet entry level positions. How exactly do you

532
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: think money could be put to effective use in a

533
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: way that it wasn't at least in previous years prior

534
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: to Bendic's coming in here.

535
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 2: I think that's a fantastic question. And I want to

536
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: also emphasize too that one of the frustrations that was

537
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: happening on the inside is that, like there was so

538
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: much talked about our payroll, especially in those earliers eighteen

539
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: and nineteen, when we had the money from Chim Mingwong's

540
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: contract on the payroll, We had Martin Prodo money still

541
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 2: going out, and folks didn't realize that the payout structures

542
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: of those might have been slightly different than what was

543
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 2: being talked about, and we were still paying into that

544
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: money well beyond the time people were talking about it,

545
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: and the reality is is that, yeah, that's dead money,

546
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 2: and dead money means that players not on the field,

547
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: but it's still money, like it's money that the club

548
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: had to pay. And so that really hemmed us in

549
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: significantly in terms of what we could actually put in

550
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: terms of payroll onto the field. But one of my

551
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: very first projects for the club was to build out

552
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: an analysis of how much return on investment is there

553
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: in spending a lot on the draft. The previous ownership

554
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 2: group was not very interested in maxing out their draft budget,

555
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: but Derek wanted to see a research project on that,

556
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 2: and so I went into Derek's office up in Lone

557
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: Depot Park, sat up there with my boss, and we

558
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: talked through the expected wins above replacement for high school

559
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: players taking an X level within the draft. And you know,

560
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: my research ultimately led us to maxing out spending money

561
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: on Connor Scott and Seam Nunez and Osyrus Johnson guys,

562
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: unfortunately many of whom didn't actually pan out for us,

563
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: but willingness to spend in that space is an incredibly

564
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: meaningful The return on investment for in the both the

565
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 2: domestic draft and the international space is so disproportionately high

566
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: relative to the free agent market. The free agent market,

567
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: your return on investment is actually like for every dollar

568
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: you spend, you tend to get like seventy five cents

569
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: of value. But in the draft, every dollar you spend

570
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: tends to be closer to ten dollars of value, and

571
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: in the international space, every dollar you spend its close

572
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: to one hundred dollars a value, So like there's an

573
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: enormous return on investment. And personally, I think when you

574
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: invest in analysts, when you invest in staff, the return

575
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: on investment is like one thousand dollars per every dollar

576
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 2: you spend because it's such a significant impact through some

577
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 2: unfortunately very lowly paid affiliate level analysts can do things

578
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: that meaningfully impact your million dollar prospect in a way

579
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 2: that turns them into a ten million dollar prospects. That's

580
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: an incredibly valuable return on resources. That's why clubs that

581
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: historically are small budget teams like the Tampa Bay Rays,

582
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 2: they flesh out that minor league player development staff, they

583
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: flesh out their analytics staff, because if you have enough

584
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: people to check every box in terms of all the

585
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: different research projects on your wish list, then you're going

586
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: to be able to leverage that information in a way

587
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: that the rest of the league isn't ready to do.

588
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: And so I really again like I think that's what

589
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: Peter is building. He's trying to replicate that mindset of

590
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: we need to staff up as much as possible. There's

591
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: an enormous return on investment in that staffing space. But

592
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: that said, the Marlins for the time I was there,

593
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: meaningfully redirected resources to the international space, to the draft,

594
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: and honestly, like Victor Mason Junior probably going to be

595
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: the majors next year if I had a if I

596
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: had to guess, it may not be with the Marlins,

597
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: but I think the timeline is there. He's incredibly talented.

598
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: He's an exceptional young man, like truly, like if you

599
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: get a chance to meet him, he's the real deal.

600
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: And all that said, like that was because of money

601
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: Willingly invested in both him and his brother, and his

602
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: brother unfortunately didn't that didn't work out. I think, you know,

603
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: obviously that story tells itself, but that's the risk that

604
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: is incurred. And while that doesn't look great when somebody

605
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: doesn't turn around and become a superstar. When you signed

606
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: Ronald Kunya Junior for ten thousand dollars and he turns

607
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: into Ronald Lecunya Junior, that investment well makes it worth

608
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: all the million dollar investments you may have missed on

609
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: earlier because you've exhausted that market. You've done your best

610
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: to bring in as many talented young folks as you

611
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: can through that avenue. So that said, I wouldn't be

612
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: surprised if I think the worst kept seek around the

613
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: league is that an international draft is probably not too

614
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: far away. And if that is the case, then that's

615
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: gonna have to continue to be a space where the

616
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: Marlins find a way to bring money to bear in

617
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: that space because there's still a ton of value out there.

618
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: And if an international draft ends up affecting things like

619
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,239
Speaker 2: KBO and NBP players, we're gonna be talking about like

620
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: Major League ready players potentially available if a team is

621
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: willing to spend on that signing bonus. And again, so

622
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: I think the Marlins in my time there began to

623
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: redirect those resources. Historically, the Wayne Heizinga and the Laurier regimes,

624
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: they were more interesting in beefing up that major league roster,

625
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: and they never built that underlying core of talent in

626
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: the minor leagues. You need that pipeline of talent. You

627
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: look at where the Marlins farm system ranked in circa

628
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, and it was a decently ranked farm system.

629
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: And where did we end up in twenty twenty, Well,

630
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: we end up in the playoffs. Where we end up

631
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two players. That is not a coincidence

632
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: historically speaking, and this is analyst works work in the

633
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: public space has confirmed this for years that when you

634
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: build up a farm system that's ranked in the top

635
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: ten or or even just like top fifteen, your odds

636
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: of making playoff runs massively increase because no roster is

637
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: truly forty persons deep. And the Marlins really proved it

638
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: this year. And when you you know, cross that seventy

639
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: player boundary, you're really proving the point that you need

640
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 2: a lot of depth for any club to work. And

641
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: you can't build that depth just with free agent signings,

642
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: whether it be minor league free agent or major league

643
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: fre agent. You've got to find a way to build

644
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: a pipeline of talent up to that minor league system.

645
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: So I can't remember what the original question was, but

646
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: hopefully somewhere along there I answered it.

647
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And honestly, it's irrefutable that the team did a

648
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: better job at maximum maximizing what they could spend in

649
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: those amateur spaces in recent years. For people unfamiliar with

650
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: the draft bonus pool, not only one hundred percent of

651
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: your bonus pool, but there's a five percent overage you

652
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: can spend, and there were several years recently where the

653
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: Marlins did spend basically every sense that they could in

654
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: order to piece together those classes with as much talent

655
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: as they felt was available. And same internationally, I think

656
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: as of just a few days ago, they reached another

657
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: deal with an international free agent that soaked up most

658
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: of the money that they had remaining in their current

659
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: bonus pool for this year, the money that in both

660
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: cases you either use it or you lose it, or

661
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: you use it or the ownership pockets it, and in

662
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: this case they've actually been using it. So the results

663
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: themselves may take a little bit longer to pan out,

664
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: just because of how young those guys are when they

665
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: enter pro baseball in the first place. That has been

666
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: something that has been really observable. It is from my

667
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: hands that that's been difference, and I'm glad to see

668
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: that that was done actually, as there was a process

669
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: in order to arrive at that conclusion for them to

670
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: do things a little bit differently that had been done previously.

671
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: I did want to get your take on a couple

672
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: other characters that are still with the organization right now

673
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: that came up in that Reddit ama that you did recently,

674
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: one of them being Gabe Kepler, mentioning in reply to

675
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: somebody that I freaking love Gabe and there are a

676
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: lot of people from Afar, a lot of heterosexual women

677
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: who might agree that they are He's a very attractive man.

678
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: But I think you meant this in a baseball sense,

679
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: a baseball operation sense. He's the assistant general manager for

680
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: the Marlins right now by all accounts, staying on for

681
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: a second year under Peter Bendix. I'm just curious about

682
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: what your interactions with Gabe have been like and why

683
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: it is that you feel very strongly about his future

684
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: as a front office guy.

685
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I got to work with Gabe a good

686
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: amount while I was there, and obviously our time didn't

687
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: intersect for very long, but for this last year I

688
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: would working a lot in the player development space, and

689
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: that's where he was primarily leveraging his ability as well.

690
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: So I got to work with him and Rachel, and

691
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: Gabe is just genuinely like He's an intelligent, friendly dude.

692
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: He's easy to talk to. He's obviously he's played the game,

693
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: he's played at the highest levels. He is or was

694
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: a fantastic ballplayer, and he's got a great mind for

695
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: looking for what's next. And I think he's a creative

696
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: thinker who honestly his time in the managerial space, he

697
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 2: showed that off a little bit, but I think there's

698
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: a lot more ways you can be creative in a

699
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: front office capacity than you can as a manager on

700
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: the ballfield. That's a space that's been really publicly explored

701
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: for one hundred and fifty years because people see what

702
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: you're doing as a manager on the field, but when

703
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: you talk about what happens behind closed doors in a

704
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: front office capacity, that's a lot more unknown. We don't

705
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: know exactly how other clubs are operating, so creativity really

706
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: pays dividends in that space. And I think he's an

707
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: exceptionally creative guy and he's open to new ideas So

708
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: I really loved working with Gabe. I think he's got

709
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: exciting possibilities for the Marlins in the future. And I

710
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: think him also working with Rachel, who sees no boundaries

711
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: like she she truly just is happy to hire a

712
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: hitting coach who who has no hitting coach experience, but

713
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: who is a creative thinker or who brings a dynamic

714
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: that you know no other club has like that, that

715
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: kind of mindset. That's how you get the most out

716
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: of every person on your staff, is bringing in folks

717
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: who really do break the expectations of what you think

718
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: is possible. So yeah, I think Gabe is fantastic, and

719
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: I really I'm bummed I didn't go to work with

720
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: him more this coming season, because you know, he's again

721
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: he's got that same demeanor that a lot of general

722
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: manager president baseball operation folks do, where he's he's absorbing opinions,

723
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: he is thoughtful, he's again like thinking through problems from

724
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 2: different directions, and I really appreciate that. And you know,

725
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: I don't know what the long term future is it

726
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: I know he's part of the more recent group of

727
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: higher so I'm going to guess he's going to be

728
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: with the Marlins for quite some time, but I wouldn't

729
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: be surprised if another club comes knocking on that door

730
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 2: fairly soon, because he was absolutely making waves immediately within

731
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: that player development side of things.

732
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: Another name that came up that is much less recognizable

733
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: to the general fan base is this person for people

734
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube, that is David Ott, who is one

735
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: of the minority owners of the Marlins. People that aren't

736
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: familiar Bruce Sherman. He is the principal owner, he is

737
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: the chairman, he is the decision maker. He's not the

738
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: only one that is invested in this team. David Ott,

739
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: by some calculations, might even have a more resources from

740
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: his previous careers in order to invest in this team

741
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: owns a chunk of it. I believe his title like

742
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: the Director of the Marlins something like that. But he

743
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: came up in that AMA as somebody that you feel

744
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: is very intelligent and analytics savvy, and I don't think

745
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: people realize that he had any sort of hands on

746
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: involvement with this team, but apparently he does. So if

747
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: you can fill us in terms of what you got

748
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: to know about David Att moving forward and what he

749
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: does that people might not be aware.

750
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: Of Yeah, absolutely, and I hope David doesn't get upset

751
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 2: about me talking about I think he does like to

752
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: play a bit more in the shadows, but I know

753
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: in the last year or two he did start to

754
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: come out. Obviously. You can see him in the screenshot.

755
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: He's on a blue waill who's broadcast there. David was

756
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: part of the ownership group that took over in twenty eighteen.

757
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: He is the second largest owner of the club. He

758
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 2: comes from a background in finance, and he is very

759
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: much a He strikes me having a conversation. It's like

760
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: talking to an old economics professor, not say he's old,

761
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: but like one of my previous economics professors. It's just

762
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 2: really a fantastic, thoughtful mind. And he has been leveraging

763
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: his own expertise within the analytics space since day one.

764
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: He has been directly involved in some of the projects

765
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: that we were working on. He was weighing in a

766
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: lot on like surplus values calculations, and that was a

767
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: project that I had been running up with the idea

768
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: of like how much more valuable is this player than

769
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: their contract, because that should determine how much you get

770
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: in return for a trade. And his leverage or his

771
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: his ability has been leveraged a bit more I think

772
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: since Derek departed, And so if I had a guess,

773
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: just kind of filling in the blanks, it does seem

774
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: like maybe that was part of where that rift existed,

775
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: Whereas I think David is much more analytically inclined, incredibly

776
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: analytics savvy owner, Whereas I think Derek had a lot

777
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: more of the mixed approach that it is very successful

778
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: for other organizations. I should, you know, emphasize that, like

779
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 2: the Yankees have an enormous analytics department, but they also

780
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: see it maybe more as as a tool, not necessarily

781
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: a glue. And so David, however, I think he's much

782
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: more in that space of like wanting to have analytics

783
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: feed the decision process from the ground up. And I

784
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: honestly like that's That's one of the reasons I think

785
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: Marlin should have a lot of high hopes for the

786
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: future for the club is that David's incredibly intelligent owner.

787
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: And it's worth vo Bruce is a Marlins fan, like,

788
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 2: he's an extremely passionate Marlins Like he's not just an

789
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: owner who's here to make a buck, and I that

790
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: is always one of the things that blows my mind.

791
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 2: You watch any interview with like Bruce, he's just like,

792
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: he's really adamant that he just wants the club to win,

793
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 2: and I think he's willing to do whatever it takes.

794
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: And David it has that analytical mindset to like he

795
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: knows what it takes, and so I think they actually

796
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: make kind of a great pairing in that regard, and

797
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: in all honestly, like David's increased role with the organization

798
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 2: I think is gonna gell really well with with Peter's

799
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: approach to things too, And I think it having tension

800
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: at that highest level is never a great thing, and

801
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: I think that what we're seeing now is a lot

802
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 2: smoothing almost smoothing of that tension. So hopefully that yields

803
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: benefits for the Marlins, because I want to also just

804
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: take a moment to say, uh, there are no greater

805
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: fans on Earth than Marlins fans. There are like and

806
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: I mean that specifically to say, like, no fan are

807
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: we allowed to swear on this podcast?

808
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,240
Speaker 1: What's the word still ahead?

809
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 2: No fan base has put up with more shit than

810
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: Marlins fans. The simple matter of the fact is if

811
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: you still root for the Marlins after the club was

812
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: sold off multiple times, after the stadium was built with

813
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: malicious processes, after the frustration and anguish of seeing Derek depart,

814
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: of seeing the team not fulfill expectations, And if you

815
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: still root for the Marlins, you are truly one of

816
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: the select excellent fans out there. You are truly fanatic

817
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 2: by definition. And so I just want to commend the

818
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 2: Marlins fans who were listening to the podcasts, who are

819
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: just in general rooting for this club, because like I

820
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: would go to those games and I would see fans

821
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: out there cheering their lungs out seventh inning of a

822
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: game that like didn't frankly matter at all, and they're

823
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 2: they're cheering as if it's the World Series. And yeah,

824
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 2: I know, I know the stadium's not jam packed full,

825
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: but those are like the real fans that are there

826
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: right now, and one day, I really do hope that

827
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 2: that stadium is going to be consistently packed, and when

828
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: that is, I hope those fans take that as their

829
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: just reward for those years of suffering, those years of

830
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: torment and sticking with it. I think we in the

831
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: front office space, we recognize you guys are out there

832
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: and we can't like, I mean, you pay our salaries,

833
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 2: so like we can't thank you enough. And I now,

834
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 2: as an unemployed person, I will say like, I still

835
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: recognize that that Marlin fan base is truly exceptional and

836
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: huge plots to you guys. I hate that the club

837
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: has not loved you back, and that's the unfortunate thing

838
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: about baseball's based. You can love it all you want,

839
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: but it won't love you back. And I hope everybody

840
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: continues to be in a healthy mind space. But at

841
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: the same time, I think the plaudits are due for

842
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 2: Marlins fans.

843
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: One more thing. They wanted to get you out on here.

844
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: As you've referenced a couple of times, worked very directly

845
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: with player developments, and that is going to be the

846
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: players that are in their system right now are going

847
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: to be so crucial to how quickly that team returns

848
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: to being competitive. Are there particular players either broke out

849
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: this year or ones that you think are on the

850
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: verge of breaking on twenty twenty five and beyond, Are

851
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: they're particular guys that you are high on in this

852
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: Marlins organization moving forward? Based on what you've been able

853
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: to see from them firsthands, and what you've been able

854
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 1: to sing underneath the hood.

855
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: I wish I had better news in terms of like

856
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: the farm system as a whole. I think it was

857
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: one of the things we recognized pretty early on is

858
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: that like, we are not satisfied or we weren't satisfied

859
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: with the state of the farm system. And that was

860
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: not a surprise to us. I mean, I think we

861
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: could see this kind of developing when some of the

862
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: higher draft pick prospects come. They don't hit the ground running.

863
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 2: You don't trade a guy like Khalil Watson within what

864
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: two years of having drafted him, thinking it was this

865
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: huge steal if things are going great, right and so

866
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: unfortunately things did not go great in that space. But

867
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: the byproduct of that is that it creates an opportunity

868
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: for all the people who are in there to surprise us.

869
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: The Jonah brides to surprise to come out as a

870
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 2: minor leagueree agent or to join the club via free

871
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: agency or a trade, and really, you know, make an

872
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: impact in a way that's unexpected. I will say, for

873
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: my personal opinion, and this is the guy I stuck

874
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: my neck out for multiple times and doing different research

875
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 2: projects on and working with Griffin Co nine defies all expectations.

876
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: I really also just for like the storybook aspect of it.

877
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 2: I really hope this guy is who I think he

878
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: can be. The power is obviously extremely legitimate, but also

879
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: the person is somebody you can bet on, like it's

880
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: somebody you can expect is going to do well. He's

881
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: a hard worker. I remember one of my first interactions

882
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: with him. I was walking up the batting cages and

883
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: I just heard him speaking in Spanish to some of

884
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: the players, and I was like, what the heck is

885
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: going on here? Like he's flut in Spanish. Absolutely fantastic

886
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: human being. He's going to put in the effort to

887
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: make it work. And he's a guy who has recognized

888
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: that the strikeout rate was a problem in the minor leagues,

889
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 2: and so he put in the work to make it better.

890
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: And he's also a guy who is you know that

891
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: defense is going to sneak up on you. There's not

892
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: a lot of arms like that in the minor league's. Honestly,

893
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: the only other arm I saw that was anything like

894
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: that was Victor Victor's arm, And honestly, this is it's not,

895
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: you know, center field defensive ability, but it's gonna be

896
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: a right field defense that you're gonna be happy with

897
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: for a decade. And so I really do hope that

898
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: the needle is as pointed as high for him as

899
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 2: I think it is. And with regards to Xavier Edwards,

900
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: I think we might be looking at a superstar in

901
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,479
Speaker 2: the making. This guy is from a like a wins

902
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: above replacement perspective. I think he's going to be like

903
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: a five win player, which is like, that's huge, that's

904
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: I think he's a potential like Ozzie Albi's type player

905
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: for the Marlins, and our internal metrics were a lot

906
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: more optimistic of what can happen at shortstop. I think

907
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: there is. That's one of again, like the divides between

908
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 2: maybe what the scouting and sort of older school mindset

909
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 2: would would dictate in terms of how arm strength really

910
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: plays at shortstop. He's just got such fast hands, really

911
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: great footwork that you can make up for a lot

912
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 2: of sins with arm strength. Dansby Swanson keeps showing up

913
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: is really weak arm strength for years, but he still

914
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: was putting up excellent defensive run saved values. So, like

915
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 2: I think it's a space where they're wanting to see

916
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: if if it's possibly you can stick it shorts up,

917
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 2: that's a huge boon to the club. I think there's

918
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: other like role players like Otto, Lopez and Bride who

919
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 2: I mentioned, who really could be quite useful long term.

920
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: I think Lopez's defense at second is going to keep

921
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: them in the league for a long time in some capacity,

922
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: potentially as a starting second baseman. He strikes me as

923
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: like Darwin Barney with a little power, which is that's

924
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 2: a that's a very potent looking player. But I think

925
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: the elephant in the room is I've not named any

926
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: minor leaguers. I think there's a there's a there's a

927
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: hope that some of these new guys who have come in,

928
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: who are boosting the system a little bit, are going

929
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 2: to really develop into something very promising. But if there's

930
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: not a lot of like slam dunk big names coming

931
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 2: down the pipeline. And one of my sort of truisms

932
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: is that like you tend to see hitting prospects far off.

933
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 2: When Vladimir Guerrero Junior was in rookie ball, it was

934
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 2: kind of clear he was going to be a major

935
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: leaguer Wan Soto made the Majors at nineteen. Michael Harris,

936
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: the second comes up straight from double A. You can

937
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: kind of see the hitters from a far off. Pictures

938
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: can appear out of nowhere, and that was something we

939
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: made a good deal of cash off of. Essentially, we

940
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 2: were able to find pictures who were on the cusp

941
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 2: or who were like who were there but didn't get

942
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: like the proper credit, and we were able to leverage

943
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: them into trades or into high leverage bullpen spots, or

944
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 2: make them starting pitchers. Even so, you can have a

945
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: guy like Brian Hoeing who switches to relief adds three

946
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: miles an hour, which is uncommon for a reliever to

947
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: add three three miles an hour to his fastball, or

948
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: Cody Pote showing up with two more miles on hour

949
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 2: on his fastball. Like, guys like that can kind of

950
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: appear as pictures, but on the position player side is

951
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 2: a lot harder for them to just kind of appear

952
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. And so that's why I think losing

953
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: Nasim Nunia is really hurts. It was one that we

954
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: were really hoping he wouldn't stick. What the Nationals have

955
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 2: done to him this year is I think borderline a

956
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 2: moral but they certainly have paid him, so I'm happy

957
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: for him in that regard. But at the same time,

958
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: like we really didn't think any team had the gumption

959
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 2: to take him and hold him for this long because

960
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: he's simply he's like the hitting needs more work, and

961
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: I honestly think he's another great guy, like he's going

962
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 2: to get there, but and the defense is already major

963
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: league quality. But like, losing him for the Marlins was

964
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 2: really tough because, especially since we weren't confident Xavier could

965
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: fit it short then like losing Nasim, who is absolutely

966
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: a shortstop, means that you've just slimmed that depth even

967
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: further in that space. So that said, you know, I

968
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: really do hope that the current minor league system for

969
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: the Marlins has another like four or five major leaguers

970
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: in it right now. There were some guys that our

971
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: analysts were working with on a daily basis, really working

972
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: on trying to find where that next breakthrough is. Jacob

973
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: is The surface level numbers are not as exciting, and

974
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: it's not what you would expect, not I think what

975
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: he expected, what we expected taking him so high in

976
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: the draft, but he really turned a corner mid season.

977
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: The analysts he was working with where just they were

978
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: through the moon with what they were seeing. I have

979
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: high hopes that there is a JJ Bledet type late

980
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: bloom happening for him right now, and so I think

981
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: there's a real possibility Jacob Barry is going to be

982
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: a right fielder or first baseman for the Marlins in

983
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: the future. I think third base might be uh might

984
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: be a little too hard on our on blood pressure,

985
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: but yeah, so I think there is absolutely some position

986
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: player possibilities in the minors, but the club is really

987
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: lacking those major prospects in the way that we we

988
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: tried to build that pipeline, but we failed. I mean that,

989
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: there's no there's no two ways about it. I think

990
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: we recognized that we were frustrated by that, Whereas on

991
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 2: the pitching side, I think it continues to be a

992
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: very exciting pipeline. Pitching wise. I think this is a

993
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: year where multiple of our clubs had really great pitching staffs,

994
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: and that was with Dax Fulton out for the whole season.

995
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: That was with Evan Fitterer having issues when he got

996
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 2: up to Triple A. Like I mean, there are still guys.

997
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: There are major league quality pitchers in this system, and

998
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 2: I can say that with a lot more confidence, and

999
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 2: I think that has a lot to do with Again, unfortunately,

1000
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: these are I'm not sure if Tommy's still with the club,

1001
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 2: but Tommy Phelps and Scott Aldred, our pitching coordinators with

1002
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: the club, were fantastic. They let Scott go and I

1003
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: think he needs to catch on somewhere. Scott's fantastic, Tommy's fantastic.

1004
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: They're a big reason why our pipeline has been so

1005
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: successful at developing major league quality pitching. So I don't

1006
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: know that hopefully that it continues. I honestly, you look

1007
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: at what the Rays do and I don't think there's

1008
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: too much reason to doubt that's going to continue under Peter.

1009
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: I think there's an increased emphasis on the things that

1010
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: Scott and Tommy were doing successfully, So it only should

1011
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: get better from here. That's my hope, But again I

1012
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: can't say for sure. I work in predictive analytics, but

1013
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: sadly and not a true suit sayer.

1014
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: Right, And that is going to be the essential question

1015
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: moving forward, where there's so much change across so many

1016
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: different departments, including people that were doing their job well

1017
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: and right at the end mentioning that the guys that

1018
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: were so crucial to this whole pitching development operation and

1019
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: even though there's going to be imagine a good search

1020
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: to find replacements, and that Peter has a vision in

1021
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: mind for how this all fits together and it's yeah,

1022
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: it makes so much change. Is a pretty bold decision,

1023
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: and guys that are on their way out they can't

1024
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: take it personally, and that includes you. I mean by

1025
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: this conversation, this has really been incredible, Brad, to hear

1026
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: your perspective on these type of things. And no doubt,

1027
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: if you are still interested in working in baseball and

1028
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: still earning that fraction of what you might actually be

1029
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: worth in terms as an analyst, then I imagine there's

1030
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: gonna be a whole lot of interest in what you

1031
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: have to do because from you, around the league and

1032
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: from other clubs. So I hope you enjoyed this downtime

1033
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: with your family. I hope everybody's safe. And during the

1034
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: course of this, this went way over our expected time,

1035
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: as you predicted it would, but this is funny to

1036
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: make sure that, yeah, this one you got to make

1037
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: sure that get out of the way of this upcoming storm.

1038
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: So I'm sure we could talk again in the future

1039
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: because we could really go on all day about this

1040
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: type of stuff. This is really great insight.

1041
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, one hundred percent, And I will say I

1042
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: want to just kind of to throw this out there too.

1043
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: If you are interested in working for the Marlins in

1044
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: the future and you want to work specifically in the

1045
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 2: analytics department, I think one of the big pushes is

1046
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: they're they're trying to build up that our Shiny skill set.

1047
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: So if you don't know how to code in our

1048
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 2: the our programming programming language, please do dig into that

1049
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 2: and develop a competency, develop an excellence with the r

1050
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: shiny program that's within the our programming language. So it's

1051
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: it's one of those spaces that I know, like folks

1052
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: listening to this may be interested in working analytics in

1053
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: the future, and they're going to be building up, like

1054
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: you said, like this is they got a lot of

1055
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: vagancies now, and so that's a skill set that I

1056
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: know they're eagerly hunting and people who not just have

1057
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: the competency, but who excel in that space. So if

1058
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 2: you are one of those folks, like build that portfolio,

1059
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: show it off. Make sure that you're gonna have because

1060
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: there's gonna be postings here soon, so I would I

1061
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: would recommend folks keep an eye on that for sure.

1062
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: Bradley Woodrum, former Marlins coordinator of Baseball Information Services, thank

1063
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: you so much for hopping on the show to go

1064
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: through all that. Really learned a lot and I'm sure

1065
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: people are gonna appreciate.

1066
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 2: Listening to this absolutely. I should also, Oh my gosh,

1067
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 2: I'm so bad at this. I should plug something right.

1068
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: I have a YouTube channel. It's under my name, Bradley Woodrum.

1069
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: I write, you know, baseball scripts for that, so you know,

1070
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: check it out. I've at least a video on Monday morning,

1071
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: nothing to do with the Marlins, but like it's baseball

1072
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: intensive and if you like hearing me rant, then you'll

1073
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 2: hear a little bit more of that with some charts

1074
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 2: and graphics and whatnot. So I thank you again, Eli

1075
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 2: so much for letting me on here. I love talking baseball.

1076
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: Be happy to join any time.

1077
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, all, I'm excited. Now watch you yourself as resuming

1078
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: your former career as a content creator and a public analyst.

1079
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Speaker 1: I think we're all better off having you now. From

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00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: out behind the curtain and being able to share some

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00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 1: of your insights with the world again. So I look

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Speaker 1: forward to that. I'll be sure to plug that in

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00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: the description here as well. So, Eli Susman, you're on

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00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: the Fish on First podcast. Thanks everybody for listening. Season's over,

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00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: but our work is just beginning. A whole lot of

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00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: content coming at you throughout the entire year covering our Marlins.

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00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: Now the Brad Readiley Woodroom lists Marlins, but there's still

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00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: seem that I know you guys are very cures and

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00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: following the rest of the way. So yeah, until the

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00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 1: next time people, with the rest of our stuff Fish

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00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: on First dot com. We appreciate the support all year

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00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: round from you Marlins fans out there. As always, go

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00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 1: Fish