WEBVTT - Anti-Racist Hoods Fighting in Ukraine (with Jake Hanrahan) 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:11.000 Oh it could happen here. UM is the podcast. We're 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.880 talking about things falling apart, and you know a place 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.319 where things have fallen apart a bit is large chunks 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.919 of Ukraine due to a Russian invasion. UM. And you 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:24.680 know we've chatted about this a bit on the show. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.639 We've had some interviews with some folks who are living 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.800 and fighting over there, and today we're going to talk 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.480 with Jake Hanrahan a friend of the pod UM who 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.519 has been over a couple of times this year, including 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.120 since the more expanded conflict began. It has just released 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.760 a new documentary on the popular front YouTube called Ukraine's 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.800 Anti Fascist Football Hooligans Fighting the Russian Invasion. Jake, how 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.720 you doing, Thanks for having me back, Thanks for being 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.000 on now. Jake. First off, I guess we can get 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:59.520 into YouTube censorship stuff, but UM, I want to chat 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.360 about like how this story came about and when you 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.679 kind of got in contact with these people, because kind 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.760 of in brief, what you have, you know, the clips 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.000 notes that you hear from like folks who have kind 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.160 of an ax to grind is that like you know, 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.360 Ukraine is all neo Nazis and the government's all run 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.080 by neo Nazis. And the reality is that Ukraine obviously 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.880 has a substantial Nazi problem. And as with any country 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.080 where you have a substantial Nazi problem and some degree 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.840 of freedom in terms of you know, your ability to 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.280 organize for other political purposes, you also have a shipload 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.160 of people who are anti fascists and who have been 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:39.120 fighting those fascists in the street, um, often with intense 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.360 levels of violence. UM. And this is a story about 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.360 a group of those people, UM, who have now kind 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:51.480 of retooled their organization and capacity towards fighting the Russian invasion. Yeah, man, exactly, No, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.160 I mean, so what I wanted to do with Popular fund. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:58.280 You know, I've been reporting from Ukraine since and I've 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.080 been there more than ten times on the ground in 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.240 the dombas like way before you know, people were focused 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.760 on the area and before the invasion, so I was 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.960 very aware of. Yeah, there is a significant fascist element 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.200 to the militias out there, but it's the same Any 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.400 country in Europe that would have a war would have 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.120 the exact same thing. Trust me, if we had it 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.560 in Britain, we would have a similar issue. You know, 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.440 Eastern Europe obviously, it's a little bit more hardcore. Um, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.560 but that's the way it is. That's Eastern Europe for you, 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.480 and I will mention just at the top as well, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.919 I would argue that Russia has a much worse neo 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.240 Nazi problem. They had more than fifteen people were killed 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:39.040 between by an actual neo Nazi serial killer gang in 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.240 Moscow that filmed these attacks. They have a massive neo 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.760 Nazi party. Um, you know, they're they're they're exporting Nazis 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.079 all across Europe, and we know there is several, um, 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.760 you know, well trained neo Nazi battalions fighting for the 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:53.959 pro Russian So it's neither here nor there. Yes, there's 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.080 Nazi problems in the region, but I didn't want to 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.239 constantly be on this back foot like you know, actually, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.120 yes there's a Nazi problem, but not there's not that. 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:02.680 I was like, how can we do a documentary that's 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.079 kind of a positive way to be like, well, instead 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.560 of saying no, not everyone is this, or having to 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.720 film with a unit and then being like, actually, these 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.640 guys are fascists. How can I show you know, like 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.519 they're uncomfortable. Yeah, right, like oh a total cough again, 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.600 Like it was like, how how can I kind of 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.760 put a doc out there where it's like, oh no, actually, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.320 like here's a different side to it, and you know, 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.600 this group obviously as soon as the war started again. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.320 Ukraine is a country of forty four million people and 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.800 it's a very diverse, a very smart, very open country 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.200 in terms of people tell you what they think and 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.800 they will argue with you and you won't be you know, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.880 you can have like really serious discussions with people about 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.600 politics there and not fall out. You know. Um, so 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.840 they're very I think, like a very clever people, are 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.080 really nice people. I love Ukraine, I love Ukrainians. So 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:57.400 so it's to me it was I knew about the players, Like, yeah, 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.440 of course there's a massive anti fascist element in Ukraine. Okay, 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.280 it's definitely smaller than the fascist element, but already since 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.640 the war started with there's Eco platform, there's Harky hardcore, 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.480 there's the Resistance Committee, Let's hold towards Klan. There's operational solidarity, 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.520 like there's a Nestor mac No machine gun repair unit. Like, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.120 there's so many different anti fascist left wing elements to 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.800 the conflict. They just get a lot less attention because 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.400 the fascists have got really good at propaganda over the years, 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.000 and and let's be honest, a lot of the fascist 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.720 groups are fighting in the East and right now it's 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.720 kind of well, it all hands on deck, right It's 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.320 like everyone's like, yeah, okay, we don't really care, like 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.880 we just want to not die, which is understandable. So 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.640 my point is, um, I looked at this this group, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.839 the Resistance Committee, which is this kind of anti authoritarian 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.919 um you know, coalition of various different units. They have 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.400 um Red Deer under their wing, which is an anarchist 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.599 group in Ukraine that I made a documentary with a 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.320 few years ago. So I was looking at maybe we'll 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.160 do a dock of Deer again now that they're fighting 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.320 on the front. But then I see this other group 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.520 with them, hood towards Clan and it's like what who Like, Firstly, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.320 the name is kind of weird in the US. That 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.200 brings up some unpleasant connotation in the US. Yeah, I 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.560 mean it didn't really click to me. But what does 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.480 what does like hoods? Hoods mean? So basically, when they 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.040 would go and do you know, when they would go 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.040 and beat up fascists, they'll be like, right, hood's up 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:29.520 because you're you're like putting your hoodie app so you 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.640 don't get like sparted, right, exactly true. The bards up, um, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.120 there's totage of them beating up Nazis as well chanting. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.680 They had a chance towards like, you know, to put 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.760 the fucking fear into them, like as hell yeah yeah. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.920 And then Clan, I mean the Ukrainian translation of clan. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.480 It's with the k. It's not about the you know, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.719 it's just as Anglicization can lead to some unfortunate things, 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.160 right right. But also you know, they're smart guys and 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.080 at first I thought this wasn't true, but then I 0:05:58.080 --> 0:05:59.960 spoke to me it was true. They were kind of aware. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.200 They're like yeah, HHK who tolds Klan. They're kind of 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.279 trolling KKK, like it's like a second meaning because in Ukraine, 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.720 you know, they've got that culture. They're very cheeky. They 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:11.800 think it's very funny to be like ha ha, you know, 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.120 fuck you. Um, So for them, they were like, yeah, 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.119 we're basically trolling the fascists, like they hear who towards 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.200 Clan and they're like surprised, Sorry, we're anti fascists, you 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.200 know what I mean, your head's broken so it was 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.000 kind of that vibe, and you know, they didn't really 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.920 think about it. And when I asked Anton, you know, 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.160 he's like the kind of the fact old leader. He 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.039 was like he told me this, and then he was like, 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.600 I just kind of wanted to piss people off as well. Um. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.080 And you you gotta remember, these guys started over ten 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.240 years ago, before you know, politics was as online as 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.800 it is, um, and they started off in the hardcore 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.080 punk scene. Now you know, I'm sure you know, like 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.320 you know, hardcore punk, especially in Europe is like a 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:51.080 very very exciting, very fun, very happy and like Gnali 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.360 fucking scene. So for them, it was like yeah, with 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.240 a who towards clan, like you know what I mean. 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.120 But but unfortunately some people in America are like why 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.200 they go to hood to clan? I don't believe they're 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.600 anti fast. It's just like, mate, there's olvers seventy videos 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:08.400 of them beating up Nazis. Successfully. It's a whole continent 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.200 that doesn't have the same history as the United States, right. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.880 You can't mean yeah, yeah, I mean even if you 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.160 said in England like KKK, like now, people would be 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.560 like who oh yeah, Like yeah, I've heard of that. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.720 It's not like we didn't have it here like that. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.880 You know, yeah, it's one of those. So, I mean 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.520 one of the things that's um, that's interesting here that 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.000 you you hit on in your documentary is like these folks, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.160 the that that these are not just like um, anti 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.880 authoritarian folks, They're they're very much committed to anti racism, 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.960 which is um, you know a place like Ukraine where uh, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.160 the history of their being you know, folks who are 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.080 not white is not quite as extensive as it is 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:47.800 in a lot of places. It's really interesting to me 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.880 to have people who are kind of organizing specifically for 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.080 that purpose. Um, and I think, really cool. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:55.920 it is really cool. And it's for them what I 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.280 found very fascinating is it's just natural. So you know, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.720 I said, know their political I geology. Some of them 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.200 are like, well, some of us are anarchists, some of 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.920 us are kind of anti fascists, but otherwise kind of 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.160 a political and you know, when it's very simple for them, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:11.920 it's like why are you I asked, how come you 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.080 guys are anti fascists? And they're like, well, we just 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.880 see life differently, Like you know, it's like obviously like 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.600 there was no big political theory. It was just like, no, 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.120 it's just basically they were like it's just wrong, you know, 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.320 like fascism is just wrong, and we're tough guys, you know, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.920 and we joined. We were we wanted to be the 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.120 ones that said no, we're not the fascists were the 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.079 anti fascists, and luckily for them, they had a really 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.000 good friendship group and a very solid group who were 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.960 all very good at combat sports, and like in the dock, 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.240 you know, Anton says, our enemies is almost every other 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.840 Ukrainian football firm in the whole of the country. You 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.240 will ask even their enemies, they will tell you like, yeah, unfortunately, 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.640 those guys are tough. You know, they can fight, you know, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.960 they have to be, so yeah, exactly, they had to be. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.760 They were like we had to be, you know. So 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.280 I mean, I do my research. I've found um kind 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.319 of a fascist football ultras forum in Eastern Europe that 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.320 banned any mention of Hoodswood's Klan, And it kind of 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.600 boiled down to the fact they were just so embarrassed 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.000 that so many of the fascist groups were getting beaten 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.960 up like by by anti fascists and often outnumbered. You know, 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.240 it even got to a point where Hudswards Clan weren't 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.960 allowed to They wouldn't even talk to them to do 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.400 like arranged fights anymore in the field. So instead of quitting, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.600 Hudson's Clan said, okay, then when we see you, we'll 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.240 just beat you up in the subway, We'll beat you 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.439 up in the street like you know. And a lot 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.240 of people might say, oh, well, this is violent. So 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.880 for me, the football Holuganism side of it, I don't 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.880 see an issue with it personally. I mean, they're not 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.240 attacking anyone innocent, they're not attacking by standards. It was 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.080 all very contained. It was all very you know, it 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.040 was that was their thing, you know, so that that 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.600 to me is whatever. And when you're talking about neo 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.080 Nazi groups that were i mean in Ukraine that they've 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:57.000 stabbed up the Roma community, they're destroying LGBT events, and 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:58.880 you know, hu Clan were just like, no, we're not 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.840 about that. We don't I think you should do that. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.559 And so they formed and for ten years they were fighting. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.200 But now they have called a truth because they're like 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.199 you know, Anton explains in the dock, he says, look, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.960 there's a bigger problem now because Ukraine is actually not 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.080 a Nazi junta, as the Kremlin says, it's actually quite 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.240 easy to kind of you know, it's a very small 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.600 subset in the in the relative size of the actual military, 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:23.920 so you know, it's actually for them, they said, well, yeah, 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.280 it makes sense we put all our other political differences 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.320 aside because this is way bigger. You're talking about one 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.560 of the most powerful militaries on earth invading our country 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.280 and killing our people. I mean, we've seen the massacres 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.080 in Boucher and up in Um. You know, people killed civilians, 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.520 hands behind their back, executed in the street. Um. Thirty 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.520 of the people killed in Butcher with children. But you know, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.240 this is just insane. So for them they were like, yeah, 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.640 we we can, we can call the truth. You know, 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:52.760 we don't like them, but right now we're not going 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.360 to beat each other up on the front line. Um. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.080 But I think it really kind of shows the testament 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.520 of how serious for towards Clara about fascism that even 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.800 whilst in the truth, most of them actually still joined 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.760 the resistance committee, the anti authoritarian groups, so they're not 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.120 just directly next to fascist battalions. But again you know, 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:14.720 a lot is changing out there on the front now. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.480 I think, yeah, I don't know. Anton said to me, 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:17.840 he was like, I'll be honest with you, like we 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.360 didn't put this in the DOT said, to be honest, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.680 I think after this war a lot of these far 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.240 right guys might change their minds because now we see 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.720 what totalitarianism brings death, you know what I mean. Whether 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.920 that whether however that's which we'll thinking or not, I'm 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.560 not sure, but you know what I'm saying, because obviously, 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.480 like the I mean, I I would obviously I would 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.000 hope that that's that's what happens, but I tend to 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.559 do it. But yeah, the thing that scares me, of course, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.720 is there's just as at least as much a chance 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.040 that you know, they get more powerful. Um, which is 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.400 again part of why it's important for folks like Hudson's 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.080 plan to be organizing and getting weapons and being prepared 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:58.560 because like, yes, that if that conflict comes after the war, 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.760 you know, you don't want the fascist militias to be 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.440 the best armed and most organized. Yeah, and this is 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.120 the issue. No, but I think for them it's like, Okay, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.000 we'll deal with that when it comes. You know, like, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.600 I think they're very aware that this war is going nowhere, 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.439 you know, and you know they say and our dog, Oh, 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.520 we just want to go and kill Russian pigs. I mean, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.160 you know what they mean is I mean some people 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:23.839 are like, ooh, that's really bad. I was like, mate, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.319 you're talking about there. There they were. It's a war, right, 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.880 they were. They were guarding the areas where the massacres happened, 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.120 you know, to client got shelled, trying to get civilians 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.360 out of Boradanka when Russians were shelling. You're talking women 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.920 and children. Yeah, I'm surprised they said that mildly, you know, 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.000 like yeah, like you know, it's a woman, it is 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.000 what it is. And also their football holligans they're wild people, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.680 you know. Yeah, it's it's um. I mean that is 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.160 kind of interesting though. I'm curious, Um, do you have 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.720 kind of a an assessment of what kind of numbers 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.160 they're looking at, like how many folks they've actually got 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.280 in the field on a regular basis. Yeah, so the 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.000 Resistance Committee is I don't know, like fifty hundred right now. 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.520 Hoodswoods Clan they have like maybe twenty to thirty year 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.000 their guys in that group. But then they also have 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.960 other people, um that join different units in the East. 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.400 So they were like already military so they didn't have 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.800 to go you know, former militia. They just joined the military. 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.640 So there's like quite a strong Hoodswoods Clan um mortar 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.280 group um. And I know that. So so one of 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.720 the footage we included in our documentary where a Russian 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.040 tank gets blown up, like very close courters, he gets 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.040 hit with the javelin, he's like a hundred feet away. 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.040 That was a Hood towards Clan attack. That was one 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.640 of their guys doing it, you know. So yeah, so 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.000 that there's they're all over the place. Um. Unfortunately, due 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.960 to various bureaucracy within the Territorial Defense, I do think 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.439 that the resistance Committee might have to split up to 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.240 actually get to the front, you know what I mean, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.280 Like they're they're probably gonna have to join other units 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.480 because there's some issues that the you know, various people 0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:59.760 they're just not sending them out there. It's not because 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.640 they're anti fascist or I think there's nothing to do that. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.760 It's it's because you know, it's corruption, man, There's there's 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.840 some corruption emerging some some commanders just want to sit, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.840 sit around and not actually have to go to the 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.560 front um, Whereas you know, the fighters themselves are desperate 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.680 because they're like, you know, our people are dying. We 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:17.640 want to avenge them and we want to stop it. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.800 So you know, right nowhoods have planned essentially on their way. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:22.720 They're doing a lot more training right now. They've been 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.600 given the go ahead. Yeah, they're going to the east 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:26.840 um and as far as I know, they're they're kind 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.760 of on route obviously stopping off doing training. I think 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.840 they have an up. They're going to be an RPG unit, 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:33.760 so they'll be a very close quarters you know what 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:45.880 I'm saying. So there's going to be Narlie for them. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.920 These guys, as you stated, all kind of started out 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.040 as a friend group, right Like they weren't. This isn't 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.200 a political party, these aren't like these guys didn't start 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.720 as ideological cameras. They were like buddies who were into 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.800 the same team and into the same kind of combat sports. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.640 Now they're you know, they're going to be some of 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.280 them are going to be dying in front of the others, 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:09.000 which is like a difficulty I think. Um, I'm interested 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.960 in kind of how how are they actually organizing sort 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.800 of in the field or is it just as I've 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.080 heard of a number of like militia units kind of 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.200 along the lines of the Ukrainian military, or have they 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.000 have they kind of adopted different organizational styles in their 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.400 their hoods hoods units as befits sort of their unique 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.880 kind of origins. Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.320 mean it's kind of tricky because essentially there, you know, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.480 I guess, I guess they formed as a militia. You know, 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.720 as soon as they were stired, they got guns. But 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.280 then you know, Anton was like, we have everything from 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.600 the anti fascist networks, everything we need apart from the weapons. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.000 So they had to sign up as a part of 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.040 the territorial defense the weapons. So they're under the territorial defense, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.280 as are you know, a hundreds of different people that 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.600 did the same thing. Um, so luckily forward towards clan, 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.200 I think because they're so close friends. I mean, you 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.000 can see it in the dock, you know. I even 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.200 the subtitle of our Dock is like, you know, this 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.880 is a film about friendship, m violence and resistance, because 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.000 that's essentially what it is, you know, So they're very 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.960 close friends. So commanders have recognized that that, yeah, this 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.320 is a group that is disciplined as well. A lot 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.000 of them are straight edge, which is actually a discipline 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.440 in itself, you know what I mean. So they're very 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.920 well disciplined. They're very good. You know, the training is 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.160 very good. They know what they're doing. But they have 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:27.160 like a commander that is from the Territorial Defense if 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.200 you like, it's not he's not hood towards clan. He's 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.640 ever been assigned a commander sort of thing. Um. So 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.400 they're being taught just the same kind of tactics as 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.200 anybody else. As they're an RPG unit, I think, you know, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.200 there will be a lot of close quarters stuff, but 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.280 they're just doing a lot of a lot of arms training. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.040 There's you know, Constantine and the dock. One of them 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.040 is like, I just want to get better faster. They're 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.560 just they're very they're very focused on being like not 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.440 an elite unit, but they want to get it perfect. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.160 They're not just like, yeah, let's go and kill. They're like, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:56.880 now we have to be good, you know what I mean. 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.680 We have to go in there and have the same 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.560 discipline and organization and as we had in the streets 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:03.760 when we were fighting. There was a reason that they 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.240 were renowned as being a good street fight in football, 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.680 looking firm despite being completely outnumbered. It's because they had 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.760 good discipline. Um, they're tough, they trained, and also because 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.919 they're good friends. They will have each other's back. It's 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.480 it's not hobby for them as a lifestyle, you know. Um. Yeah, 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.359 it's just so much went into it. You know. Husklan 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.440 started off the back of um anti fascist punk punk 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.000 hardcore in Ukraine, and then that itself was a scene, 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.160 and then the football organism and then yeah, and now 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.520 it's it's crazy, really, it's it's honestly one of the 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.440 most fascinating stories I've covered. Now they're fucking frontline unit. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.520 You know. It's it's sad and I hope to guard 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.920 nothing happens to any of them. Probably the nicest guys 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.320 are filled with you know, um, but yeah, it's it's 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.399 it's it's it's a good question, man, and it's very 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.120 tricky to know how it's going to happen for them 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.080 once they're on the front. I mean, Anton, the main guy, 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.760 he has served before he joined the militia to fight 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.320 in the Dombas, so they do have some experience, you know, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.680 and it does seem like um kind of their natural 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.280 the skills that they've been developing because there's there's, broadly 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.320 speaking from my understanding, kind of two main types of 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.760 combat going on in Ukraine. There's the what you're seeing 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.399 a lot in you know, the down boss, which is 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.040 this kind of like meat grinder like frontline ship, and 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.200 then there's sort of the seek and destroy kind of stuff, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.960 where you've got people sort of hunting convoys and and 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.960 doing ambushes. And it does strike me like these guys 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.760 talents would lend themselves more to the ambushes than I mean, 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.560 there's not really any talent that helps you in the 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.560 in the sitting in a trench meat grinder kind of ship, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.480 but obviously you don't have that choice when you're when 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:43.280 you're serving under you know, the national military. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.600 it's I think you're right, Like they would be much 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:50.760 better um placed as like you know, I guess like 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.840 a kind of shooting scoop kind of unit exactly. Yeah, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.560 And I think they will be because you know, the 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.720 train with RPG UM some of their fighters already have 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.280 javelins on the front um and and laws. So yeah, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.080 I think that's where it will be if they just 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.919 put them in some kind of meat grind of position, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.239 which very much could happen, you know. I mean it's 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.960 bad for anybody. Let's be realistic. It's getting very bad 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.520 in the Don Boss right tonight, man, Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.280 I mean, and that's one of the there's been posts 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.879 and stuff from people talking about like, um, you know, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.720 the a lot of the funk ups that are happening 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.560 because you know, Ukraine started this war with everyone being 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.720 kind of overwhelmed by the competence of their military effort, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.760 and now that things in in the Don Boss have 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.360 turned into this kind of ugly slog Um, there's been 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.239 some you know, oh the you know units getting hit 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.399