Speaker 1: Oh it could happen here. UM is the podcast. We're
Speaker 1: talking about things falling apart, and you know a place
Speaker 1: where things have fallen apart a bit is large chunks
Speaker 1: of Ukraine due to a Russian invasion. UM. And you
Speaker 1: know we've chatted about this a bit on the show.
Speaker 1: We've had some interviews with some folks who are living
Speaker 1: and fighting over there, and today we're going to talk
Speaker 1: with Jake Hanrahan a friend of the pod UM who
Speaker 1: has been over a couple of times this year, including
Speaker 1: since the more expanded conflict began. It has just released
Speaker 1: a new documentary on the popular front YouTube called Ukraine's
Speaker 1: Anti Fascist Football Hooligans Fighting the Russian Invasion. Jake, how
Speaker 1: you doing, Thanks for having me back, Thanks for being
Speaker 1: on now. Jake. First off, I guess we can get
Speaker 1: into YouTube censorship stuff, but UM, I want to chat
Speaker 1: about like how this story came about and when you
Speaker 1: kind of got in contact with these people, because kind
Speaker 1: of in brief, what you have, you know, the clips
Speaker 1: notes that you hear from like folks who have kind
Speaker 1: of an ax to grind is that like you know,
Speaker 1: Ukraine is all neo Nazis and the government's all run
Speaker 1: by neo Nazis. And the reality is that Ukraine obviously
Speaker 1: has a substantial Nazi problem. And as with any country
Speaker 1: where you have a substantial Nazi problem and some degree
Speaker 1: of freedom in terms of you know, your ability to
Speaker 1: organize for other political purposes, you also have a shipload
Speaker 1: of people who are anti fascists and who have been
Speaker 1: fighting those fascists in the street, um, often with intense
Speaker 1: levels of violence. UM. And this is a story about
Speaker 1: a group of those people, UM, who have now kind
Speaker 1: of retooled their organization and capacity towards fighting the Russian invasion. Yeah, man, exactly, No,
Speaker 1: I mean, so what I wanted to do with Popular fund.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been reporting from Ukraine since and I've
Speaker 1: been there more than ten times on the ground in
Speaker 1: the dombas like way before you know, people were focused
Speaker 1: on the area and before the invasion, so I was
Speaker 1: very aware of. Yeah, there is a significant fascist element
Speaker 1: to the militias out there, but it's the same Any
Speaker 1: country in Europe that would have a war would have
Speaker 1: the exact same thing. Trust me, if we had it
Speaker 1: in Britain, we would have a similar issue. You know,
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe obviously, it's a little bit more hardcore. Um,
Speaker 1: but that's the way it is. That's Eastern Europe for you,
Speaker 1: and I will mention just at the top as well,
Speaker 1: I would argue that Russia has a much worse neo
Speaker 1: Nazi problem. They had more than fifteen people were killed
Speaker 1: between by an actual neo Nazi serial killer gang in
Speaker 1: Moscow that filmed these attacks. They have a massive neo
Speaker 1: Nazi party. Um, you know, they're they're they're exporting Nazis
Speaker 1: all across Europe, and we know there is several, um,
Speaker 1: you know, well trained neo Nazi battalions fighting for the
Speaker 1: pro Russian So it's neither here nor there. Yes, there's
Speaker 1: Nazi problems in the region, but I didn't want to
Speaker 1: constantly be on this back foot like you know, actually,
Speaker 1: yes there's a Nazi problem, but not there's not that.
Speaker 1: I was like, how can we do a documentary that's
Speaker 1: kind of a positive way to be like, well, instead
Speaker 1: of saying no, not everyone is this, or having to
Speaker 1: film with a unit and then being like, actually, these
Speaker 1: guys are fascists. How can I show you know, like
Speaker 1: they're uncomfortable. Yeah, right, like oh a total cough again,
Speaker 1: Like it was like, how how can I kind of
Speaker 1: put a doc out there where it's like, oh no, actually,
Speaker 1: like here's a different side to it, and you know,
Speaker 1: this group obviously as soon as the war started again.
Speaker 1: Ukraine is a country of forty four million people and
Speaker 1: it's a very diverse, a very smart, very open country
Speaker 1: in terms of people tell you what they think and
Speaker 1: they will argue with you and you won't be you know,
Speaker 1: you can have like really serious discussions with people about
Speaker 1: politics there and not fall out. You know. Um, so
Speaker 1: they're very I think, like a very clever people, are
Speaker 1: really nice people. I love Ukraine, I love Ukrainians. So
Speaker 1: so it's to me it was I knew about the players, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course there's a massive anti fascist element in Ukraine. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's definitely smaller than the fascist element, but already since
Speaker 1: the war started with there's Eco platform, there's Harky hardcore,
Speaker 1: there's the Resistance Committee, Let's hold towards Klan. There's operational solidarity,
Speaker 1: like there's a Nestor mac No machine gun repair unit. Like,
Speaker 1: there's so many different anti fascist left wing elements to
Speaker 1: the conflict. They just get a lot less attention because
Speaker 1: the fascists have got really good at propaganda over the years,
Speaker 1: and and let's be honest, a lot of the fascist
Speaker 1: groups are fighting in the East and right now it's
Speaker 1: kind of well, it all hands on deck, right It's
Speaker 1: like everyone's like, yeah, okay, we don't really care, like
Speaker 1: we just want to not die, which is understandable. So
Speaker 1: my point is, um, I looked at this this group,
Speaker 1: the Resistance Committee, which is this kind of anti authoritarian
Speaker 1: um you know, coalition of various different units. They have
Speaker 1: um Red Deer under their wing, which is an anarchist
Speaker 1: group in Ukraine that I made a documentary with a
Speaker 1: few years ago. So I was looking at maybe we'll
Speaker 1: do a dock of Deer again now that they're fighting
Speaker 1: on the front. But then I see this other group
Speaker 1: with them, hood towards Clan and it's like what who Like, Firstly,
Speaker 1: the name is kind of weird in the US. That
Speaker 1: brings up some unpleasant connotation in the US. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it didn't really click to me. But what does
Speaker 1: what does like hoods? Hoods mean? So basically, when they
Speaker 1: would go and do you know, when they would go
Speaker 1: and beat up fascists, they'll be like, right, hood's up
Speaker 1: because you're you're like putting your hoodie app so you
Speaker 1: don't get like sparted, right, exactly true. The bards up, um,
Speaker 1: there's totage of them beating up Nazis as well chanting.
Speaker 1: They had a chance towards like, you know, to put
Speaker 1: the fucking fear into them, like as hell yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Clan, I mean the Ukrainian translation of clan.
Speaker 1: It's with the k. It's not about the you know,
Speaker 1: it's just as Anglicization can lead to some unfortunate things,
Speaker 1: right right. But also you know, they're smart guys and
Speaker 1: at first I thought this wasn't true, but then I
Speaker 1: spoke to me it was true. They were kind of aware.
Speaker 1: They're like yeah, HHK who tolds Klan. They're kind of
Speaker 1: trolling KKK, like it's like a second meaning because in Ukraine,
Speaker 1: you know, they've got that culture. They're very cheeky. They
Speaker 1: think it's very funny to be like ha ha, you know,
Speaker 1: fuck you. Um, So for them, they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're basically trolling the fascists, like they hear who towards
Speaker 1: Clan and they're like surprised, Sorry, we're anti fascists, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, your head's broken so it was
Speaker 1: kind of that vibe, and you know, they didn't really
Speaker 1: think about it. And when I asked Anton, you know,
Speaker 1: he's like the kind of the fact old leader. He
Speaker 1: was like he told me this, and then he was like,
Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to piss people off as well. Um.
Speaker 1: And you you gotta remember, these guys started over ten
Speaker 1: years ago, before you know, politics was as online as
Speaker 1: it is, um, and they started off in the hardcore
Speaker 1: punk scene. Now you know, I'm sure you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, hardcore punk, especially in Europe is like a
Speaker 1: very very exciting, very fun, very happy and like Gnali
Speaker 1: fucking scene. So for them, it was like yeah, with
Speaker 1: a who towards clan, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But but unfortunately some people in America are like why
Speaker 1: they go to hood to clan? I don't believe they're
Speaker 1: anti fast. It's just like, mate, there's olvers seventy videos
Speaker 1: of them beating up Nazis. Successfully. It's a whole continent
Speaker 1: that doesn't have the same history as the United States, right.
Speaker 1: You can't mean yeah, yeah, I mean even if you
Speaker 1: said in England like KKK, like now, people would be
Speaker 1: like who oh yeah, Like yeah, I've heard of that.
Speaker 1: It's not like we didn't have it here like that.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it's one of those. So, I mean
Speaker 1: one of the things that's um, that's interesting here that
Speaker 1: you you hit on in your documentary is like these folks,
Speaker 1: the that that these are not just like um, anti
Speaker 1: authoritarian folks, They're they're very much committed to anti racism,
Speaker 1: which is um, you know a place like Ukraine where uh,
Speaker 1: the history of their being you know, folks who are
Speaker 1: not white is not quite as extensive as it is
Speaker 1: in a lot of places. It's really interesting to me
Speaker 1: to have people who are kind of organizing specifically for
Speaker 1: that purpose. Um, and I think, really cool. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is really cool. And it's for them what I
Speaker 1: found very fascinating is it's just natural. So you know,
Speaker 1: I said, know their political I geology. Some of them
Speaker 1: are like, well, some of us are anarchists, some of
Speaker 1: us are kind of anti fascists, but otherwise kind of
Speaker 1: a political and you know, when it's very simple for them,
Speaker 1: it's like why are you I asked, how come you
Speaker 1: guys are anti fascists? And they're like, well, we just
Speaker 1: see life differently, Like you know, it's like obviously like
Speaker 1: there was no big political theory. It was just like, no,
Speaker 1: it's just basically they were like it's just wrong, you know,
Speaker 1: like fascism is just wrong, and we're tough guys, you know,
Speaker 1: and we joined. We were we wanted to be the
Speaker 1: ones that said no, we're not the fascists were the
Speaker 1: anti fascists, and luckily for them, they had a really
Speaker 1: good friendship group and a very solid group who were
Speaker 1: all very good at combat sports, and like in the dock,
Speaker 1: you know, Anton says, our enemies is almost every other
Speaker 1: Ukrainian football firm in the whole of the country. You
Speaker 1: will ask even their enemies, they will tell you like, yeah, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: those guys are tough. You know, they can fight, you know,
Speaker 1: they have to be, so yeah, exactly, they had to be.
Speaker 1: They were like we had to be, you know. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I do my research. I've found um kind
Speaker 1: of a fascist football ultras forum in Eastern Europe that
Speaker 1: banned any mention of Hoodswood's Klan, And it kind of
Speaker 1: boiled down to the fact they were just so embarrassed
Speaker 1: that so many of the fascist groups were getting beaten
Speaker 1: up like by by anti fascists and often outnumbered. You know,
Speaker 1: it even got to a point where Hudswards Clan weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to They wouldn't even talk to them to do
Speaker 1: like arranged fights anymore in the field. So instead of quitting,
Speaker 1: Hudson's Clan said, okay, then when we see you, we'll
Speaker 1: just beat you up in the subway, We'll beat you
Speaker 1: up in the street like you know. And a lot
Speaker 1: of people might say, oh, well, this is violent. So
Speaker 1: for me, the football Holuganism side of it, I don't
Speaker 1: see an issue with it personally. I mean, they're not
Speaker 1: attacking anyone innocent, they're not attacking by standards. It was
Speaker 1: all very contained. It was all very you know, it
Speaker 1: was that was their thing, you know, so that that
Speaker 1: to me is whatever. And when you're talking about neo
Speaker 1: Nazi groups that were i mean in Ukraine that they've
Speaker 1: stabbed up the Roma community, they're destroying LGBT events, and
Speaker 1: you know, hu Clan were just like, no, we're not
Speaker 1: about that. We don't I think you should do that.
Speaker 1: And so they formed and for ten years they were fighting.
Speaker 1: But now they have called a truth because they're like
Speaker 1: you know, Anton explains in the dock, he says, look,
Speaker 1: there's a bigger problem now because Ukraine is actually not
Speaker 1: a Nazi junta, as the Kremlin says, it's actually quite
Speaker 1: easy to kind of you know, it's a very small
Speaker 1: subset in the in the relative size of the actual military,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's actually for them, they said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes sense we put all our other political differences
Speaker 1: aside because this is way bigger. You're talking about one
Speaker 1: of the most powerful militaries on earth invading our country
Speaker 1: and killing our people. I mean, we've seen the massacres
Speaker 1: in Boucher and up in Um. You know, people killed civilians,
Speaker 1: hands behind their back, executed in the street. Um. Thirty
Speaker 1: of the people killed in Butcher with children. But you know,
Speaker 1: this is just insane. So for them they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we we can, we can call the truth. You know,
Speaker 1: we don't like them, but right now we're not going
Speaker 1: to beat each other up on the front line. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think it really kind of shows the testament
Speaker 1: of how serious for towards Clara about fascism that even
Speaker 1: whilst in the truth, most of them actually still joined
Speaker 1: the resistance committee, the anti authoritarian groups, so they're not
Speaker 1: just directly next to fascist battalions. But again you know,
Speaker 1: a lot is changing out there on the front now.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I don't know. Anton said to me,
Speaker 1: he was like, I'll be honest with you, like we
Speaker 1: didn't put this in the DOT said, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I think after this war a lot of these far
Speaker 1: right guys might change their minds because now we see
Speaker 1: what totalitarianism brings death, you know what I mean. Whether
Speaker 1: that whether however that's which we'll thinking or not, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure, but you know what I'm saying, because obviously,
Speaker 1: like the I mean, I I would obviously I would
Speaker 1: hope that that's that's what happens, but I tend to
Speaker 1: do it. But yeah, the thing that scares me, of course,
Speaker 1: is there's just as at least as much a chance
Speaker 1: that you know, they get more powerful. Um, which is
Speaker 1: again part of why it's important for folks like Hudson's
Speaker 1: plan to be organizing and getting weapons and being prepared
Speaker 1: because like, yes, that if that conflict comes after the war,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't want the fascist militias to be
Speaker 1: the best armed and most organized. Yeah, and this is
Speaker 1: the issue. No, but I think for them it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll deal with that when it comes. You know, like,
Speaker 1: I think they're very aware that this war is going nowhere,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know they say and our dog, Oh,
Speaker 1: we just want to go and kill Russian pigs. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know what they mean is I mean some people
Speaker 1: are like, ooh, that's really bad. I was like, mate,
Speaker 1: you're talking about there. There they were. It's a war, right,
Speaker 1: they were. They were guarding the areas where the massacres happened,
Speaker 1: you know, to client got shelled, trying to get civilians
Speaker 1: out of Boradanka when Russians were shelling. You're talking women
Speaker 1: and children. Yeah, I'm surprised they said that mildly, you know,
Speaker 1: like yeah, like you know, it's a woman, it is
Speaker 1: what it is. And also their football holligans they're wild people,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's it's um. I mean that is
Speaker 1: kind of interesting though. I'm curious, Um, do you have
Speaker 1: kind of a an assessment of what kind of numbers
Speaker 1: they're looking at, like how many folks they've actually got
Speaker 1: in the field on a regular basis. Yeah, so the
Speaker 1: Resistance Committee is I don't know, like fifty hundred right now.
Speaker 1: Hoodswoods Clan they have like maybe twenty to thirty year
Speaker 1: their guys in that group. But then they also have
Speaker 1: other people, um that join different units in the East.
Speaker 1: So they were like already military so they didn't have
Speaker 1: to go you know, former militia. They just joined the military.
Speaker 1: So there's like quite a strong Hoodswoods Clan um mortar
Speaker 1: group um. And I know that. So so one of
Speaker 1: the footage we included in our documentary where a Russian
Speaker 1: tank gets blown up, like very close courters, he gets
Speaker 1: hit with the javelin, he's like a hundred feet away.
Speaker 1: That was a Hood towards Clan attack. That was one
Speaker 1: of their guys doing it, you know. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: that there's they're all over the place. Um. Unfortunately, due
Speaker 1: to various bureaucracy within the Territorial Defense, I do think
Speaker 1: that the resistance Committee might have to split up to
Speaker 1: actually get to the front, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like they're they're probably gonna have to join other units
Speaker 1: because there's some issues that the you know, various people
Speaker 1: they're just not sending them out there. It's not because
Speaker 1: they're anti fascist or I think there's nothing to do that.
Speaker 1: It's it's because you know, it's corruption, man, There's there's
Speaker 1: some corruption emerging some some commanders just want to sit,
Speaker 1: sit around and not actually have to go to the
Speaker 1: front um, Whereas you know, the fighters themselves are desperate
Speaker 1: because they're like, you know, our people are dying. We
Speaker 1: want to avenge them and we want to stop it.
Speaker 1: So you know, right nowhoods have planned essentially on their way.
Speaker 1: They're doing a lot more training right now. They've been
Speaker 1: given the go ahead. Yeah, they're going to the east
Speaker 1: um and as far as I know, they're they're kind
Speaker 1: of on route obviously stopping off doing training. I think
Speaker 1: they have an up. They're going to be an RPG unit,
Speaker 1: so they'll be a very close quarters you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So there's going to be Narlie for them.
Speaker 1: These guys, as you stated, all kind of started out
Speaker 1: as a friend group, right Like they weren't. This isn't
Speaker 1: a political party, these aren't like these guys didn't start
Speaker 1: as ideological cameras. They were like buddies who were into
Speaker 1: the same team and into the same kind of combat sports.
Speaker 1: Now they're you know, they're going to be some of
Speaker 1: them are going to be dying in front of the others,
Speaker 1: which is like a difficulty I think. Um, I'm interested
Speaker 1: in kind of how how are they actually organizing sort
Speaker 1: of in the field or is it just as I've
Speaker 1: heard of a number of like militia units kind of
Speaker 1: along the lines of the Ukrainian military, or have they
Speaker 1: have they kind of adopted different organizational styles in their
Speaker 1: their hoods hoods units as befits sort of their unique
Speaker 1: kind of origins. Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean it's kind of tricky because essentially there, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess they formed as a militia. You know,
Speaker 1: as soon as they were stired, they got guns. But
Speaker 1: then you know, Anton was like, we have everything from
Speaker 1: the anti fascist networks, everything we need apart from the weapons.
Speaker 1: So they had to sign up as a part of
Speaker 1: the territorial defense the weapons. So they're under the territorial defense,
Speaker 1: as are you know, a hundreds of different people that
Speaker 1: did the same thing. Um, so luckily forward towards clan,
Speaker 1: I think because they're so close friends. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can see it in the dock, you know. I even
Speaker 1: the subtitle of our Dock is like, you know, this
Speaker 1: is a film about friendship, m violence and resistance, because
Speaker 1: that's essentially what it is, you know, So they're very
Speaker 1: close friends. So commanders have recognized that that, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a group that is disciplined as well. A lot
Speaker 1: of them are straight edge, which is actually a discipline
Speaker 1: in itself, you know what I mean. So they're very
Speaker 1: well disciplined. They're very good. You know, the training is
Speaker 1: very good. They know what they're doing. But they have
Speaker 1: like a commander that is from the Territorial Defense if
Speaker 1: you like, it's not he's not hood towards clan. He's
Speaker 1: ever been assigned a commander sort of thing. Um. So
Speaker 1: they're being taught just the same kind of tactics as
Speaker 1: anybody else. As they're an RPG unit, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: there will be a lot of close quarters stuff, but
Speaker 1: they're just doing a lot of a lot of arms training.
Speaker 1: There's you know, Constantine and the dock. One of them
Speaker 1: is like, I just want to get better faster. They're
Speaker 1: just they're very they're very focused on being like not
Speaker 1: an elite unit, but they want to get it perfect.
Speaker 1: They're not just like, yeah, let's go and kill. They're like,
Speaker 1: now we have to be good, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: We have to go in there and have the same
Speaker 1: discipline and organization and as we had in the streets
Speaker 1: when we were fighting. There was a reason that they
Speaker 1: were renowned as being a good street fight in football,
Speaker 1: looking firm despite being completely outnumbered. It's because they had
Speaker 1: good discipline. Um, they're tough, they trained, and also because
Speaker 1: they're good friends. They will have each other's back. It's
Speaker 1: it's not hobby for them as a lifestyle, you know. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just so much went into it. You know. Husklan
Speaker 1: started off the back of um anti fascist punk punk
Speaker 1: hardcore in Ukraine, and then that itself was a scene,
Speaker 1: and then the football organism and then yeah, and now
Speaker 1: it's it's crazy, really, it's it's honestly one of the
Speaker 1: most fascinating stories I've covered. Now they're fucking frontline unit.
Speaker 1: You know. It's it's sad and I hope to guard
Speaker 1: nothing happens to any of them. Probably the nicest guys
Speaker 1: are filled with you know, um, but yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a good question, man, and it's very
Speaker 1: tricky to know how it's going to happen for them
Speaker 1: once they're on the front. I mean, Anton, the main guy,
Speaker 1: he has served before he joined the militia to fight
Speaker 1: in the Dombas, so they do have some experience, you know,
Speaker 1: and it does seem like um kind of their natural
Speaker 1: the skills that they've been developing because there's there's, broadly
Speaker 1: speaking from my understanding, kind of two main types of
Speaker 1: combat going on in Ukraine. There's the what you're seeing
Speaker 1: a lot in you know, the down boss, which is
Speaker 1: this kind of like meat grinder like frontline ship, and
Speaker 1: then there's sort of the seek and destroy kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: where you've got people sort of hunting convoys and and
Speaker 1: doing ambushes. And it does strike me like these guys
Speaker 1: talents would lend themselves more to the ambushes than I mean,
Speaker 1: there's not really any talent that helps you in the
Speaker 1: in the sitting in a trench meat grinder kind of ship,
Speaker 1: but obviously you don't have that choice when you're when
Speaker 1: you're serving under you know, the national military. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I think you're right, Like they would be much
Speaker 1: better um placed as like you know, I guess like
Speaker 1: a kind of shooting scoop kind of unit exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think they will be because you know, the
Speaker 1: train with RPG UM some of their fighters already have
Speaker 1: javelins on the front um and and laws. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's where it will be if they just
Speaker 1: put them in some kind of meat grind of position,
Speaker 1: which very much could happen, you know. I mean it's
Speaker 1: bad for anybody. Let's be realistic. It's getting very bad
Speaker 1: in the Don Boss right tonight, man, Yeah, yeah, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's one of the there's been posts
Speaker 1: and stuff from people talking about like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the a lot of the funk ups that are happening
Speaker 1: because you know, Ukraine started this war with everyone being
Speaker 1: kind of overwhelmed by the competence of their military effort,
Speaker 1: and now that things in in the Don Boss have
Speaker 1: turned into this kind of ugly slog Um, there's been
Speaker 1: some you know, oh the you know units getting hit
Speaker 1: by their own artillery fire, the kind of messy stuff
Speaker 1: that happens when you have a fight like this, right
Speaker 1: like it is it is unavoidable, um, when you have
Speaker 1: like a situation like has developed in the Don Boss.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't make it any less unpleasant, uh, to
Speaker 1: endure as an actual soldier, Like It's just it's one
Speaker 1: of those I mean, the there's only so much that
Speaker 1: like competence and training can do if you wind up
Speaker 1: getting squeezed into that kind of position. Yeah, and there's
Speaker 1: this is why at a lot of people are even
Speaker 1: Ukrainian has actually had a conversation with Ukrainian friend yesterday
Speaker 1: that was saying, like, you know, the situation is so
Speaker 1: bad in the East. We really need to be honest
Speaker 1: about this because you know, if people think it's going
Speaker 1: better than it is, okay, it's good for morale, but
Speaker 1: it's not good for the guys on the ground, like
Speaker 1: they're not going to get what they need. And the
Speaker 1: reality is that it's getting really bad and it's not
Speaker 1: anything to do with incompetence from the fighters. It's just
Speaker 1: the war. The level is being so hot, and you know,
Speaker 1: Russia has learned from its mistakes unfortunately from the start
Speaker 1: where they completely fucked up. But now you know, things
Speaker 1: are getting a little bit hairy. Um, Ukrainians are doing
Speaker 1: like an incredible effort. But again it's like, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: talking about decades and decades of armor and you know,
Speaker 1: um weapons that Russia has and it's all very well,
Speaker 1: us being like oh their armories blah blah. I doubt it,
Speaker 1: you know, I very much doubt that. Um, it doesn't
Speaker 1: look like that, certainly from when people I'm talking to
Speaker 1: in the East, you know, so I think again, when
Speaker 1: when you know Ukrainians are like, well we do need
Speaker 1: more weapons, it's because they need more weapons, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, they really do. Well, this is like
Speaker 1: one of the this is uh one of the things
Speaker 1: that's that's difficult to I think get across to people, um,
Speaker 1: because there is such a you know that we are
Speaker 1: dealing with the legacy of decades of shipping weapons places, um,
Speaker 1: and not having that helped the conflict in a lot
Speaker 1: of in a lot of ways, um, and decades of
Speaker 1: stories like you know, all the weapons that got sent
Speaker 1: to the Iraqi government and then wound up in isis
Speaker 1: is armory and ship um. Which creates kind of an
Speaker 1: easy narrative for folks who are like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: you're just trying to prolong the conflict in making it
Speaker 1: worse by shipping and weapons. But the reality is one
Speaker 1: side of this war has a substantial percentage of all
Speaker 1: of the artillery that exists on the planet and the
Speaker 1: other side does not. Yeah, I do understand the argument,
Speaker 1: or like, I totally get it, but it's it's I
Speaker 1: lived through the early two thousand's as well. I understand it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's like war isn't a template. It's not like does
Speaker 1: this happened there, this will happened there or whatever, And
Speaker 1: it's like you have to weigh it up no matter
Speaker 1: what bad is going to come from this. Do you
Speaker 1: want the bad to be Okay, there's a problem with
Speaker 1: arms in Eastern Ukraine, which the Eastern Europe, which there
Speaker 1: already is and it gets worse, or do you want
Speaker 1: the bad problem to be Russia has taken over the
Speaker 1: whole country, massacred everybody and is unlike undoubtly going to
Speaker 1: try and move into other countries. So do you want
Speaker 1: aids or do you want cancer? I don't know, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Do you want the Do you
Speaker 1: want the lesson from this to be that if you're
Speaker 1: just willing to burn a couple of hundred thousand human
Speaker 1: lives as a state like Russia or any other state,
Speaker 1: you can easily gain access to, you know, a pile
Speaker 1: of wealth right in the shape of a country, um,
Speaker 1: which is into positive It's not like a good lesson
Speaker 1: for anyone to take out of this, but like if
Speaker 1: if that's a lesson, right, yeah, yeah, no, that's the reality.
Speaker 1: Like it's all very nice having a fifty tweet Twitter
Speaker 1: threat about why this that and aferred should or shouldn't happen.
Speaker 1: But that's just completely removed from real life. I mean
Speaker 1: a real life is it's going to be very bad,
Speaker 1: very nasty no matter what happens, and you just have
Speaker 1: to weigh it. Oh, I don't like natal. Oh I
Speaker 1: don't like this. Yeah, I mean either, but I care
Speaker 1: about people that die for no reason, you know, Like
Speaker 1: I think that's the real issue. Um. I think people
Speaker 1: need to stand with the people, you know, and if
Speaker 1: that means okay, use the tools that you have, Okay, Like,
Speaker 1: oh I don't like natal. We Yeah, but they're going
Speaker 1: to give them weapons. Do you think that Ukrainians like
Speaker 1: having Russian firearms? Probably not. But they also don't give
Speaker 1: a ship because they shoot. It's it's that simple, you know.
Speaker 1: End up coming back to the subject of your dak menorate. Um,
Speaker 1: if weapons are going to be going over there, and
Speaker 1: by God they are, um, I would hope that as
Speaker 1: many of them as possible are going into the hands
Speaker 1: of people like the Hood's Hood's client, right, yeah, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that is that is a yeah, a lot.
Speaker 1: There's definitely this isn't from them telling me, but it's
Speaker 1: just from research I've done. There's definitely a discrepancy in
Speaker 1: terms of which groups get what weapons. And it's not
Speaker 1: based on ideology, but it's definitely based on some serious
Speaker 1: buoxy that needs to be sorted out. You know. I
Speaker 1: have some some Western volunteers that I know that are
Speaker 1: on the front right now, and they're saying, like, for
Speaker 1: some reason, you know, one unit that is not an
Speaker 1: RPG unit, for example, will have more rockets than the
Speaker 1: RPG unit, you know, And it's like, what like, And
Speaker 1: that's not because they've used them all. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: supply lines are again. It's it's not even corruption often
Speaker 1: it's just supply lines are wrecked or whatever. But it
Speaker 1: has to be addressed as to be looked at. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm no tactician. I don't know anything of all that
Speaker 1: side of things. I'm just based on what you know,
Speaker 1: people are telling me, because you know, I like to
Speaker 1: talk to them and hear what's happening. Yeah, um, I
Speaker 1: think we should move into you know, when I when
Speaker 1: I pull up your documentary on YouTube, which is again
Speaker 1: for folks at home titled Ukraine's anti fascist football hooligans
Speaker 1: fighting the Russian Invasion. The first thing that I see
Speaker 1: is this video maybe inappropriate for some users. Um yeah, flash, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and it's we've talked a lot on our various shows
Speaker 1: on this network about all of the fascist propaganda that
Speaker 1: you can find and not even find on YouTube that
Speaker 1: will be like spoon fed. Do you if you wind
Speaker 1: up like watching a video game review or something. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is something that you've been dealing with. Unpopular front
Speaker 1: somebody seems to have like an ax to grind with
Speaker 1: you guys. I don't know. Maybe it's just the algorithm,
Speaker 1: but I'll be honest, I felt like it was just
Speaker 1: the algorithm until this recent one. Right, So so yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said, if people want to fight, I mean
Speaker 1: the docs called front Line Huligan, but yeah the for
Speaker 1: s c O. Um yeah, it's it's Ukraine's anti fascists
Speaker 1: fighting Russian invasion. But yeah, the second it was uploaded,
Speaker 1: it got age restricted. Now that to me is very odd.
Speaker 1: I don't get why there's no gore in it. Um Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's violence, but there's a guideline where you can show
Speaker 1: violence in if it's relative to report in which obviously
Speaker 1: it is because it's an anti fascist football looking firm
Speaker 1: fighting Russia. So of course we're going to show what
Speaker 1: that looks like. But there's there's no there's no gore. Um,
Speaker 1: there's no there's there's just it's just lads hanging out
Speaker 1: talking about their lives now they've been tipped upside down
Speaker 1: and how they really dislike the far right. Now, to
Speaker 1: give you an idea of how messed up this is, um,
Speaker 1: there's a real, a real parasite YouTuber is called Danny
Speaker 1: Mullen and he has a video on YouTube where him
Speaker 1: and his his friend both for them scoundrels, go to
Speaker 1: the Mexican border and the whole video is trying to
Speaker 1: get with quote like hot Ukrainian refugees. Now, it's the
Speaker 1: most disgusting thing you've ever seen. They're praying on young girls,
Speaker 1: some of them are very clearly underage. Um. And that
Speaker 1: is monetized. That is monetized, and it is even on
Speaker 1: the algorithm. I found it because I was watching Ukraine
Speaker 1: war stuff and it was put onto my recommended Now,
Speaker 1: these are the biggest parasites you've ever seen in your life, um,
Speaker 1: And they have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subscribers
Speaker 1: and they're making money from content like that that is
Speaker 1: not age restricted. There is no censorship thing. There is
Speaker 1: no message saying this might be offensive. But a documentary
Speaker 1: which is one journalistic covering anti fascists fighting one of
Speaker 1: the worst invasions we've seen in Europe, is suddenly deemed
Speaker 1: inappropriate and his age restricted on YouTube. Tell me what's
Speaker 1: going on there that doesn't seem right to me. So
Speaker 1: basically YouTube by doing that as saying we're actually happy
Speaker 1: to make money off of people that exploit underage Ukrainian refugees,
Speaker 1: but we're not happy for people showing the world a
Speaker 1: different side to the war. That to me is madness,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't make any sense to me, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's nothing but soft censorship. Some people are tell
Speaker 1: me it's not it's not censorship. Of course, it is censorship.
Speaker 1: This is the way the world works now, Yeah, Because
Speaker 1: I mean a huge chunk of the success or the
Speaker 1: visibility of anything that you're putting on YouTube is whether
Speaker 1: or not the algorithm is going to like suggest it
Speaker 1: to people, even people who have watched you or other
Speaker 1: like that, not even talking about like suggesting it to
Speaker 1: somebody who's never heard of popular front, but like people
Speaker 1: who have watched multiple things that you've done and are
Speaker 1: just on YouTube. The thing that would make sense is
Speaker 1: for when you put out a new thing, them to
Speaker 1: get like YouTube and be like, hey, we know you've
Speaker 1: watched the ship, check out this. But that's not going
Speaker 1: to happen for a lot of folks because of this
Speaker 1: kind of thing, which is yeah fucked up, yeah yeah right.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's not just me that like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's other people it's happening as well. And basically what
Speaker 1: it is is if we wanted somebody the doc somehow
Speaker 1: be allowed to be monetized or not even monetored. I
Speaker 1: don't even want the monetization. The whole channel is demonetized.
Speaker 1: I just want it to not be a restricted because
Speaker 1: that is an algorithm torpedo. And you know, it's like
Speaker 1: I would have to red the whole documentary. I say, actually,
Speaker 1: sense of myself, my own journalism, make you excuse me,
Speaker 1: make the integrity of the doc weaker just to be
Speaker 1: able people to see it like this is war, this
Speaker 1: is real life. I just it's just really depressing, you know,
Speaker 1: and this is something I mean, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook have
Speaker 1: all been guilty of degrees of this, but there's this
Speaker 1: of all of the things that don't that that are
Speaker 1: allowed to spread unchecked on those platforms, they have this
Speaker 1: consistent maybe because it's it's easier to algorithmically go after,
Speaker 1: but this, this consistent pattern of going after war journalism. Um.
Speaker 1: And like your you know what's happening to your documentary
Speaker 1: is a piece of this, but like the much scarier pieces,
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of documentation of war crimes in places
Speaker 1: like Syria have been deleted um kind of automatically over
Speaker 1: the years, which means that like again, evidence of crimes
Speaker 1: against humanity has been lost forever because of these kind
Speaker 1: of like purges of of war content that um, I
Speaker 1: don't think are actually protecting anybody from anything, but are
Speaker 1: are perhaps even making things worse. Yeah, of course, and
Speaker 1: it and it allows um look Russian propaganda or whatever like,
Speaker 1: people are going to seek that out and they're going
Speaker 1: to digest it whatever way they can. So then surely
Speaker 1: you should say, okay, take the breaks off. Let's you know,
Speaker 1: if you care, which I mean YouTube is a media platform,
Speaker 1: you would think that they would say, Okay, well, this
Speaker 1: is kind of our duty to balance it out, to
Speaker 1: allow all the free information. And I'm not even saying,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, throttle Russian propaganda. I think people have a
Speaker 1: choice to see whatever they want to see, even if
Speaker 1: it is completely ridiculous. But the fact that they're they're
Speaker 1: censoring the stuff that you you would think is okay
Speaker 1: to see because for for for I know, you know
Speaker 1: our content that you won't find a lie in that documentary.
Speaker 1: You know, we're very honest, very frank with the situation.
Speaker 1: We're not white washing fascism in Ukraine. Um, and we're
Speaker 1: certainly not putting out Russian propaganda. We're just telling an
Speaker 1: interesting journalistic story. So you would think as a media
Speaker 1: platform that would be like yeah, right up their street.
Speaker 1: But it's not really a media I mean some money
Speaker 1: making platform and you know, they just they just survived
Speaker 1: for adverts yep, um. And I think that is kind
Speaker 1: of where we're gonna. We're gonna leave off for the
Speaker 1: day unless you have do you have anything else you
Speaker 1: wanted to get into on your documentary, Jake, no, man,
Speaker 1: I just I guess the last thing I would say
Speaker 1: is I want people to kind of know that there
Speaker 1: are many different factions out there. This isn't you know.
Speaker 1: I saw some comment being like, oh, you found the
Speaker 1: only fascists and anti fascists in Ukraine. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: there's there's literally I've been documenting them. There's thousands. There's
Speaker 1: so many, you know, and not just like oh anti fascists. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we this is what we believe, like people forming units.
Speaker 1: There's a whole pipeline of um anti authoritarian activists there,
Speaker 1: there's loads and generally like Ukrainians um happy. You know,
Speaker 1: they'll they'll take that out they can get. It's not
Speaker 1: like Ukrainians are like god damn those anti fascists. Not
Speaker 1: they love them. They love them the same way they
Speaker 1: love anybody that's defending the country. You know. It's it's
Speaker 1: just normal and I think people should really, you know,
Speaker 1: if they want to watch our doc as well, like
Speaker 1: if they can share it, that would be great because
Speaker 1: it's just very it's a struggle to get people to
Speaker 1: watch it now because of because if it's been torpedo
Speaker 1: on the algorithm, so if they go to YouTube dot
Speaker 1: com slash popular front, they'll find it's the first top there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, if people can share it. I'll be great,
Speaker 1: all right, Well check it out again. The title is
Speaker 1: Ukraine's anti fascist football Julians fighting the Russian Invasion on
Speaker 1: the Popular Front YouTube channel. We're also going to have
Speaker 1: a link in the bio if you are someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't like the type things. Yeah, thank you, Jake. All right, everybody,
Speaker 1: that's the episode It Could Happen Here as a production
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources
Speaker 1: for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone
Speaker 1: Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.