WEBVTT - Why Trump Is Losing His Lawyers 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:05.360 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grassoe from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.640 The Trump campaign has seen a revolving cast of lawyers 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:14.480 pursuing its lawsuits challenging the election results, particularly in Pennsylvania, 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.560 where the lawsuits have been concentrated. The law firm Porter Wright, 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.680 Morris and Arthur withdrew from representing the campaign on Friday, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.560 and the lawyer who took over the case, Linda Currents, 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.240 moved to withdraw on Monday. The Lincoln Project, group of 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.280 Republicans who opposed President Trump, had started a media campaign 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.760 against the law firms helping the Trump administration to contest 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.400 Joe Biden's victory, specifically naming Porter Wright and Jones Day, 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:46.080 the nation's tenth largest law firm. Trump's communications director Tim 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.040 Murtas said leftist mobs descended upon some of the lawyers 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.320 representing the president's campaign and they buckled. The President's team 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.680 is undeterred and will move forward with rock solid attorneys 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.680 to ensure free and fair elections for all Americans. Trump 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.800 has picked Rudy Giuliani, his personal attorney, to lead his 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.039 post election legal battles, and Giuliani filed an application to 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.560 join the case in Pennsylvania, which the other lawyers had 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.920 left just hours before a hearing was set to start. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.320 Joining me is Christopher for Bloomberg Law Team leader for 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.480 the Business of Law. So Chris tell us about jones Day. Sure, 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.399 Jay is one of these just massive law firms. It's 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.360 the tenth largest firm in the country with more than 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.320 a billion dollars with a b in gross revenue per year. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.360 I think they've got more than a thousand attorneys across 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:43.560 the country. Based originally founded in Cleveland, Ohio, but has 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.200 been come to be known as one of these white 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.920 shoe Washington d C firms. UM. That's really been a 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.600 revolving door with sending attorney into high ranking positions in 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.120 the federal government throughout the years, but certainly in during 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.640 the Trump administer ration. Jones Day has been the law 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:07.400 firm most closely associated by many people with the Trump administration. 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:12.040 The firm itself UM advise the Trump's campaign back for 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:17.040 the election, continued to advise the campaign UH and the 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.920 RNC throughout the next four years leading up to the 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.520 most recent election. UM and has continued to be involved 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.120 in lawsuits related to the election. UM since election Day, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.480 just a few weeks ago, and so during Trump's administration 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.480 we saw several notable jones Day lawyers bill top roles 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.800 within the government. The one that most people are familiar with, 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.040 of course, is Don McGann, who was formerly White House 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:49.560 Council before returning to Jones Day last year. Another lawyer 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:54.720 named Noel Francisco was Solicitor General, which is essentially the 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.800 fate of the Trump administration in the Supreme Court, arguing 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.160 any cases on behalf of government in the High Court. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.200 He was there for most of President Trump's first term 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.480 before returning to jones Day last year. The Lincoln Project 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:14.600 started a social media campaign about Jones Day. What was 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.079 the message of that campaign and how successful was it? Well, 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.639 the message was really that the Jones Day attorneys and 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.560 the firm itself, in the eyes of the folks, that 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.920 the Lincoln Project should be ashamed of themselves for participating 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.160 in these post election lawsuits um which at least according 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.280 to the folks that at the Lincoln Projects are nothing 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:40.240 more than an assault on American democracy, baseless attempt to 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.760 undo the the results of the fair and free election. 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.280 And so it was too prong number one. They were 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.880 building and sort of a online public sense of outrage 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.520 against the firm itself, and then they were attempting to 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.880 pressure major Jones Day clients, including companies like General Motors, 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.280 to stop doing business with the firm over this issue. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.480 Did it work? What kind of repercussions did Jones Day 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.680 have from this media campaign? Well, it certainly had some impact. 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.480 Um so that the same campaign was also aimed at 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.440 a smalller law firm called Supporter Right, which was involved 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.040 in some of the other cases involving the Trump administration, 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.440 and that firm has been pretty quickly backed away and 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.920 withdrawn from participating in those studs. Jones Days involved in 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.400 one single suit right now, and they're actually representing the 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.120 Republican Party of Pennsylvania rather than the Trump campaign itself. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.719 But it's one of those lawsuits that aimed it challenging 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.840 the results of the election in Pennsylvania overall, and and 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.320 and certainly is affiliated with the Trump administration and the 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:54.080 campaign efforts there. And so they have not sacked and 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.280 it seems unlikely that they will back away given the 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.000 firm's history and leadership just not the type of folks 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.400 who will to this sort of public pressure. But um 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.840 it has caused quite a stir within UM the halls 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.440 of Jones Staying, particularly at his Washington, d C. Office. 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.720 We reported that late last week a large group of 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:21.160 attorneys there at jones Days CC office, in a series 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.159 of meetings with the head of the DC office, raised 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:29.440 some um a number of concerns regarding the firms involvement 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:34.000 in the case. That meeting was described as very tense 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.520 by some of the people who were there. Basically, the 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.280 attorneys were saying that the firm is risking it's good name, 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:45.640 it's sort of professional names in in getting involved in 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.160 something like this. So Chris Jones Day said, it's not 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.960 representing any entity in any litigation challenging or contesting the 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.920 results of the general election in light of that Pennsylvania case. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:04.120 Is that strict true? That is incorrect, UM. And so 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.600 John Stay has has made a big deal of not 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.760 representing the Trump campaign or the RNC itself in much 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.480 of the ongoing litigation. And it is true that the 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.560 firm is not involved in many of the cases UH 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.320 that have already been thrown in out the court, both 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.440 in Pennsylvania and Michigan, Arizona and elsewhere. But the case 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:28.120 that the firm is involved in is representing the Republican 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:33.520 Party of Pennsylvania. Essentially, they're challenging UM Pennsylvania's mail in 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:38.080 ballot system. They say that the state has created this 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.000 two tier system where people who sent their ballots in 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.039 via mail did not have to jump through the various 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.800 hoops uh to prove that they are who they say 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.840 they are, that folks who voted in person had to 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:55.200 do things like uh, signatures, UM, just sort of all 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.800 the id requirements that you face when you go into 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.239 vote in person. And a say, the jones Day lawyers 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:06.000 say that this is created in a constitutional two tier 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:10.920 system where the restrictions and the requirements for voting depend 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.040 on whether or not you do it in by mail 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.880 or in person. And so, while that may not be 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.440 UM directly aligned with the Trump campaign, if the court 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.000 were to rule in favor of jones Day certainly would 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:29.360 be helpful to the Trump campaign's effort to disrupt the 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:36.160 election force recounts, UM and just generally so some uncertainty 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.480 into the entire election process. So jones Day is might 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.360 be feeling pressure tell us about it's a leadership structure. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.080 Whether or not it pulls out of these suits, is 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.560 that dependent on the managing partner certainly seems that way. 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.400 The managing partner, Steve Brogan, who's been there for quite 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.800 a while, is a hard nose leader that some say 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.400 are very much in the mold of the Donald Trumps 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:04.200 and that the buck stops with him. He's making UM 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.520 a lot of these decisions, and certainly in such a 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.480 high profile case like this one, a decision to remain 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.480 on the case sort of withdrawal certainly wouldn't wouldn't happen 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:19.760 without Brogan's UM uh input for sure. And you know, 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.320 by by all accounts, he's just not the title guy 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:26.200 who's going to UM decide not to do something simply 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.960 because of the public pressure. What's interesting is that Brogan, 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.600 of course comes from UM sort of a Republican leaning background. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.959 He's a Notre Dame law school guy UM and some 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.400 of the most high profile Jones State attorneys in DC 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.280 are also Republican background, including some of the folks who 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.960 works for the Trump administration. But when we went back 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.760 and look at the Federal Election Commission records, we found 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:58.240 that eighty percent of donations UM for political candidates in 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.400 the last cycle from Jones State turneath individually of those 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.320 went to Democratic candidates, And what we've heard from people 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.599 inside the building is that they've always thought of it 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.200 as an largely a political place. And while there may 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.880 be some um grumbling about Jones Day's work on behalf 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.439 of the Trump administration, it wasn't until recently with these 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.040 election cases where folks really thought this is different, this 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:29.400 is something where we're actively working to potentially undo a 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.520 free and fair elections. Jones Days of October nineteenth had 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.280 received two point nine million dollars in legal fees from 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.240 the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee. But that's 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.679 just a drop in the bucket to Jones Day, isn't it. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.120 It sure is. Yeah, we're talking about a firm that 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.640 um clock more than a billion dollars in gross revenue 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.959 every year and so certainly not doing it for the money, UM, 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.559 although you could say that, um, they're developing a client 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.680 relationship and certainly making clear here that they're not going 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:08.079 to stand down when they're representing their clients. UM. But 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.559 you know, one of the arguments that the firm has 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.880 been making, including in response to some of the concerns 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.360 that were raised by his own attorneys about their involvement 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:20.760 in this particular Pennsylvania case is that they're fighting for 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.760 the rule of law. And so their argument is that 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.280 we filed this case long before the election because we 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.480 thought that there was a problem with Pennsylvania's um election system. 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.560 We did not know at the time um, at least 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.000 according to Jones, say that this was going to become 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.480 this uh closely uh tightly contested election and that all 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.360 of these other lawsuits were going to follow. The firm 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.559 is simply telling their their attorneys that we're fighting for 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.400 the rule of law here. We want to make sure 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:54.199 that the Pennsylvania election system is constitutional um, whether that 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.040 favorite Democrats or Republicans. The other law firm you mentioned 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.640 port to right, they withdrew from the Pennsylvania case and 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.640 that they no longer represent the Trump campaign and didn't 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:12.920 say why. And the Trump communications director said leftist mobs 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.560 descended upon some of the lawyers representing the president's campaign 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:21.120 and they buckled. Any hints as to why report or 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.319 write Withdrew Well, we can say for sure that it 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.760 came after some of the same pressure, much of the 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.360 same pressure really that that Jones stay was facing both 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.600 externally and internally. Reportedly there were similar meanings to quarter right, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.400 where associates at the firm we're raising very similar concerns 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.880 UM and reportedly at least one lawyer resigned as a 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.760 result of those concerns. But at the same time, I 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.439 think it's interesting to keep an eye on the dockets 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.120 and what happens in these cases because myself and some 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.240 of my reporters have been talking to legal ethics experts 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.200 who have said, you really want to watch and see 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.840 how long some of these lawyers stay on these cases 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:06.160 because of the potential ethics concerns and potential penalty, sanctions, etcetera. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:12.120 For pushing baseless cases. Um, anybody can do any one 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.840 else for just about anything. But as the legal process 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:17.719 goes on, at some point you have to present some 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.000 evidence to back up what you're claiming. And if you 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.680 don't have that evidence and it becomes clear that these 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.839 cases are nothing more than trying to clog up the 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.440 system or slow down election counts, uh, those attorneys may 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.439 be facing some sort of sanctions or penalty. And so 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.400 the ethics folks that we spoke to said, if you 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.800 see them start dropping out, that may be very well 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:45.160 a recognition that there towing up against those ethical lines, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.880 and their professional integrity is on the line. So do 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.559 you see that as a concern to some of the 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.840 lawyers within these firms that the integrity of the whole 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.160 firm gets tarnished because of these cases. I think so. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.600 And you you've particularly see that from attorneys at these 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.319 huge firms. Remember we're talking about Jones Day is a 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.840 firm with more than a thousand attorney, So there are 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.600 just tons and tons of attorneys who are jones Day 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.199 attorneys who have absolutely no involvement in this case whatsoever. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.400 And you can see that they're saying, you know, we're 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.880 being tarnished because of the jones Day name, despite having 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.240 no involvement in the case. What seems like a clear 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:32.960 example of the pressure is a lawyer for Trump's campaign 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.920 yesterday said they're dropping out of the Pennsylvania lawsuit challenging 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.239 the election results. And this is a day after complaining 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.920 about being harassed for her work, including by an attorney 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:50.079 from a firm representing the state of Pennsylvania. Absolutely so, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.280 Linda Tarns, who is a solo practitioner there in Pennsylvania. 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.880 She actually became the lead attorney on that state after reporter, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:04.800 Wright dropped out in the face of pretty significant public pressure. Uh. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.439 And then shortly after that, she told the court that 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.720 she had received a threatening phone call from an attorney 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.320 at Kirklin and Ellis, which is one of the firms 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.680 on the opposite side of that litigation representing the state 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.240 of Pennsylvania. Um and and she told the court straight 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.160 up that she was bowing out because of some of 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:29.360 these attacks. Interestingly enough, the attorney who is now the 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.960 lead Trump campaign attorney in that case, some some eagle 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.880 eyed reporters noticed that on his firm's website, they're already 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:43.160 calling President elect Joe Biden the president elect. Um and 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.000 so there's some question there about how the campaign will 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.400 feel about that. Interesting. So, Chris, you study law firms. 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.760 Have we seen law firms before? Law firms are sort 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.840 of viewed in a different light than companies, at least 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.440 to my mind, because they don't necessarily they aren't necessarily 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.560 endorsing the views of the people that they represent. You know, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.600 everyone's entitled to a lawyer. So is this attack on 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.960 lawyers for whom they represent a change or has it 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.760 been going on for a while. I think you're you're 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:23.480 hearing voices opposing and criticizing law firms work on behalf 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:29.560 of certain clients. Uh. Louder and growing certainly over time, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.400 you know, going back decades. Particularly firms that work in 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.040 criminal defense are often get a hard time and get 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:43.040 a significant amount of public criticism for representing people or 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.880 companies that have been accused of these just really heinous things. 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.520 But but there has always been this idea that lawyers 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.440 represent clients and the and the fact that a lawyer 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.960 is representing a client doesn't necessarily mean that the lawyer 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.600 um supports the client, agrees with the client, thinks that 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:06.280 what they did was right or what they're arguing is correct, um. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.920 But that everyone gets their day in court, and everyone's 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.480 entitled to a lawyer. What we'll be looking to see 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.360 is that if any of the sticks and what happened next. Uh. 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.560 Just because Porter Wright dropped out of these particular cases, 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.600 that doesn't mean that the firms are going to stop 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:25.200 representing either the Trump campaign or the RNC going forwards. Uh. 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.880 And just because Jones States getting some heat here over 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.920 this one case, I don't expect that to stop the 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.240 firm from continuing to work in this space. Thanks for 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.040 being the Bloomberg Law Show Chris. That's Chris Offer, Bloomberg 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.360 Law Team leader for the Business of Law. President Trump 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.200 has resumed with one of his most successful priorities as president, 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.720 the appointment of federal judges, to make the judiciary more 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.280 conservative and set a majority. Leader Mitch McConnell is poised 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.120 to continue pushing the confirmations to the lifetime appointments through 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.920 until Trump's term is over. The Fair confirmed more than 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.600 two lifetime judicial appointees to the federal courts, including three 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.359 Supreme Court justices. Joining me is Professor Carl Tobias of 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.800 the University of Richmond School of Law. Carl, So far, 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.680 have any judges been confirmed during the lame duck session, Yes, 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.639 they have. Two were confirmed last week for the district bench, 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.480 and this week five are scheduled. One was just confirmed 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.359 this morning and the other four will be confirmed this week, 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.280 a second one today and then the others by Thursday, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.920 and so the seven will have been confirmed in the 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.120 lame ducks so far for the district courts. Are these 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.280 openings that have been in place for a while? Did 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.720 they just come up? Most of them have existed for 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.920 some time, and of course, as someone's confirmed this week, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.840 it means they've been through the process. They've been nominated 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.399 and had committee hearings, approval votes in the committee, and 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.840 then up for debate, and then a vote on the floor. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:10.480 So they are not new, virtually all of them. So 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:16.320 there are a few that are. And so for example, 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.879 there is a UH circuit they can see that was 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:25.399 just created when one Torriella died who served on the 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.280 first circuit, and someone was just recently nominated for that 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.640 position after the election. Let's concentrate on the district court 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.200 nominations for a moment. Are these going through on party 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.840 line votes as we've seen with most of the circuit 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:45.640 court nominations, or are these different? Well, some are. For example, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.560 the one this morning nominee for the Southern District of 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:54.800 Mississippi was relatively close to forty three UH. And so 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.680 we may see that with some of these nominees, especially 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.480 if there's some controversy. And there's also the feeling I 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:09.280 think among some Democrats that Mitch McConnell is jamming through 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:15.000 people at the last minute after the voters have spoken 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:20.120 UH in terms of who they want to be nominating judges. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:26.320 Has this happened before. Yes, Um, you know, in recent administrations, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:32.760 at the end of Obama's time the Senate, when McConnell 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:37.840 was in the majority, Republican Senate confirmed no one after July. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:44.120 So that gives you a sense of discrepancy between then 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.720 and now. On the other hand, at the end of 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.280 Bush in two seven two eight, uh, Democrats were in 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.680 the majority and they confirmed fifty eight district judges and 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:02.080 ten circuit judges, as opposed to Republican majority in two thousand, 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:10.400 fifteen sixteen confirmed only two circuit judges and eighteen district judges. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:15.440 And so there have been disparities depending on who's in 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.760 the White House and who is in the control of 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:23.640 the Senate. Just explain once again the difference between these 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.600 district court judges, who are sort of like the trial 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.399 judges in the federal system, and what we normally concentrate on, 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.439 which is the circuit court judges. Well, Um, this administration, 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.840 the Trump administration, has focused like a laser on the 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:41.600 appeals courts, and so there are only three vacancies now 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:46.359 and there were no vacancies for a short period, which 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.040 is the fewest since Ronald Reagan was president. Um, but 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:55.040 has neglected to some extent the district vacancies and emergency vacancies. 0:20:55.880 --> 0:21:00.520 But the difference is at the appellate level, the rulings 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.560 cover all of the states in a particular circuit, as 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:09.560 opposed to a district judge who really only can't even 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:14.520 buying people in the judge's own courthouse. And so essentially 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:22.480 the appellate judges make more policy and of cases. The 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:27.200 court of last resort is the appellate court that decides 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.600 because of Supreme Court here so few cases and so 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.200 that's why the administration has tried to keep all of 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.320 those seats filled and may fill all three vacancies. Now 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:44.560 I think tomorrow will have just this Amy Cony Barrett's replacement, 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:50.639 who's been nominated before Judiciary for hearing, and then the 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.800 idea is to confirm him to her seventh Circuit vacancy. 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.280 So what do we know about Thomas Kirsch who has 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:02.560 been nominated Phil Coney Barrett's seat. He is presently the 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.600 U S Attorney for the Northern District of Indiana and 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.359 has experience in private practice with Winston Strawn, I believe 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.960 in Chicago from and hasn't served in and out of 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.119 the Justice Department. You have attorney's office in Northern District 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:22.359 of Indiana in his career, and I think is well regarded. 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.320 But he looks like a number of other nominees of 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:29.080 President Trump, I think, but we'll see, has some strong 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.280 support from the home state senators in Indiana. So tell 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.080 us about Judge roll Arius Mark Squatt, who was nominated 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.160 to fill the vacancy on the First Circuit Court of Appeals. 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.480 And he is a district judge whom Trump appointed to 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.119 the District of Puerto Rico and has served for eighteen 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:51.399 months in that capacity, and so he's a nominee for 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.760 the First Circuit, and I think they will try to 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.200 move his nomination as well. There's a third vacancy on 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:03.200 the seventh Circuit. Judge Blom assumed senior status on November 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:07.399 and the Republicans may try to feel that they can 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:12.359 see as well. And so I think it was a 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.440 smart or choice on the part of the administration to 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.200 try to elevate someone who was already on the district 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:23.119 bench and someone from Puerto Rico, because there's a bit 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:28.000 of a tradition there um to have someone from Puerto 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:34.040 Rico on the first Circuit um. And so the administration 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.800 as someone Uh, they've already sent through the process, and 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.640 the Puerto Rico District judge was confirmed on a nineties 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:48.520 three vote. Um, and I had a very smooth nomination 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.240 confirmation process. Uh. And so I think the hope is 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:57.119 that he would be as smoothly confirmed h in this situation. 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.440 So again, it's after the election when he was mainated 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.200 and would be confirmed if that happens. Is there enough 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:11.520 time to get all the confirmations for the seventh Circuit done? Well? 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.600 Maybe I think the one that's already been made and 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.200 has the hearing tomorrow the courage. I think that could 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.880 be done because then he would just need a committee vote, 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.480 which could happen in December, and then a final vote, 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:28.280 which could happen in December. The others are more difficult. 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.920 It depends on when the first circuit nominee has a hearing, 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:36.760 and then there's no nominee yet for Judge Blaumbsy. So 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:39.920 that could be tight because they only have a small 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.160 number of working days after Thanksgiving when they come back, 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.879 and then the Senate turns over I believe on the 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:53.159 fifth or so of January. And so um, it's just 0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:56.480 not clear that there are enough, you know, legislative days 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:02.399 two approve all three of the of circuited judges, and 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:07.320 then the questions also about district judges. There are five 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:12.840 others who um are on the floor and so they've 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:18.119 had hearings and committee votes, and those five could easily 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:23.440 be confirmed in December. But there are twenty more who 0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:26.879 have been nominated by the President but not even had 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:29.480 a hearing yet. And I think there's a big question 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.640 mark as to those we'll know. We don't know yet 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:35.440 who's gonna be on the hearing tomorrow. Besides Kurse, it 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:39.399 could be some district nominees, but that's not clear, and 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.200 so it's not at all clear that any of those 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:45.160 twenty would be able to get through the process if 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:49.520 the earrings are not held till December. That's a very 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:53.080 tight time frame given what has to happen in that period. 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.680 So look back and on the four years of judicial 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.840 nominations and tell us what is it in Trump and 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:06.440 Mitch McConnell have accomplished well. They've named three extremely conservatives 0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:12.440 and confirmed three extremely conservatives Supreme Court justices fifty three 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:17.600 so far and counting similar Appellate Court judges and one 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:22.639 and sixty nine district judges after this week, which is 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:28.159 relatively strong record, especially at the appellate level. So, for example, 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:33.040 President Obama in two terms was able to confirm fifty 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:38.840 five appellate judges, so if only two more are confirmed 0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:42.560 in President Trump would have matched that. And if he 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:46.760 has all three confirmed, that would mean he named more 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:51.080 in one term than Obama did in two. Since Mitch 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:55.720