Speaker 1: Welcome to Jay dot Ill, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, Hi,
Speaker 1: good people, Hi good people. I'm so hoping that you're well.
Speaker 1: We are well. This is Jay dot Ill the podcast.
Speaker 1: This is Joe Scott with my sister friends like st
Speaker 1: Clair and the Lovely Age of Graden Dons. Hello. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she that was her lovely voice. Yes, this is my
Speaker 1: deep I have been running the streets. The streets are
Speaker 1: calling my name and sleeping. You've been having a good time,
Speaker 1: I girl, lovely, you know what I'm saying. After a
Speaker 1: year and a half of straight boom, Yeah, yes, I
Speaker 1: had a lovely week. I got to see the faces
Speaker 1: of some people who have not seen in a very
Speaker 1: long time, and there was plenty of joy to go around. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm tired, but I'm here. I may be black, and
Speaker 1: i may be ugly, but I'm here. Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 1: Always yes to the color purple quotes, yes, however and
Speaker 1: ever and ever. That's how you know, because we do
Speaker 1: never that who. I've been trying to figure out, how
Speaker 1: in the world do you transition into this conversation and
Speaker 1: what we're about to talk about right now? My goodness,
Speaker 1: how does one how does one just kind of get
Speaker 1: into it. You could, I don't know you can. You
Speaker 1: can blame me if you want to. It's always been
Speaker 1: a question on my mind. Yes, let's blame, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: why not, let's start with the blame. Yes, this is
Speaker 1: all is fault. Like they had a conversation that we
Speaker 1: feel like uncomfortable having amongst folks sometimes times baby in
Speaker 1: our head, or we have it with our girlfriends, and
Speaker 1: you just be like, I'm just trying to understand because
Speaker 1: and the truth is, it's still a conversation that we
Speaker 1: have with our girlfriends. You know, we don't really talk
Speaker 1: about it that much anymore. It it's still a talk.
Speaker 1: And if it's a talk, it's more like a you know,
Speaker 1: at this that's true, you know, that's that's kind of
Speaker 1: the gist of it. It's in regular life. But then
Speaker 1: when we talk about and I know, y'all wonder what
Speaker 1: we're talking about, we're gonna get to it. But when
Speaker 1: we talk about like folks who are living and breathing
Speaker 1: this work, then it becomes acause I gotta see this
Speaker 1: person every day telling me about my struggle in my history,
Speaker 1: But you're not going home to me. What are we
Speaker 1: talking about? People? We were talking about our favorite black activists,
Speaker 1: people in the struggles, speaking on our missions and our
Speaker 1: history and stuff going home to women who don't look
Speaker 1: like us. And I don't know, maybe it sounds tedious
Speaker 1: that some people, but sometimes to be on my spirit
Speaker 1: because I have rectified with the Everybody can find love
Speaker 1: in different places, that's fine, but everyday people, but the
Speaker 1: folks that make a living speaking on our mission and
Speaker 1: what we do and how we can live more beautiful
Speaker 1: and how beautiful we are, how dopeful people we are.
Speaker 1: But why you don't sleep with her? Or him? H? Him?
Speaker 1: I'm just grious. I just I think it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a soft metaphor, but it's it's
Speaker 1: like the chef who doesn't eat meat, you know, but
Speaker 1: the butcher who doesn't eat meat. Yeah, well that kind
Speaker 1: of I don't know. It's likely, he'll say the chef,
Speaker 1: because you know, they gotta they gotta endorsements. They're all
Speaker 1: over your television, they're um receiving money and of all
Speaker 1: kinds to go and speak up and speak out about
Speaker 1: how to make this delicious? You know, beef? I don't know,
Speaker 1: burning is that a word? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, But
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually taste it, It doesn't actually eat it.
Speaker 1: M Well, okay, so here's a here's the vibe. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say something that I think you guys are
Speaker 1: just not going to agree with. Well, let's see. Okay,
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. To me, I think it is
Speaker 1: possible two engage romantically with someone who is a support
Speaker 1: to you and them not really understand your work. And
Speaker 1: I know we're talking about a specific kind of work around,
Speaker 1: you know, around racial justice and around a specific kind
Speaker 1: of experience that you would want your mate to identify is.
Speaker 1: But I just think typically speaking, your mate doesn't identify
Speaker 1: with your work no matter what it is. Now right,
Speaker 1: but see if but this is the issue, This is
Speaker 1: the issue across the board. I think if if there's
Speaker 1: an issue around being in love with and being married
Speaker 1: to somebody who does not understand your lived experience, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to race, that I don't think the
Speaker 1: fact that you do work in that really makes a
Speaker 1: big difference. I think the difference is just the difference
Speaker 1: is like, is that something that you can do with
Speaker 1: having a really conscious mind around racial justice? Period? Because
Speaker 1: any all of us, as we talked to, even when
Speaker 1: we talk to Moon with pressure. She's talking about how
Speaker 1: it's always a pushback, even for black folks, every day
Speaker 1: pushing back in white supremacy. You have to do it.
Speaker 1: You have to do it in a personal way. You
Speaker 1: have to do it in the external way. When you're
Speaker 1: raising your children, everything that you're doing, that's a constant,
Speaker 1: that's constant self work. And so if your mate doesn't
Speaker 1: understand that work, I think the issue lies there not
Speaker 1: in that whether or not you're uh, you know, Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King or somebody, or whether or not you're you know,
Speaker 1: anybody else a little bit more current. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I went straight from Mirt Luther King, but because
Speaker 1: touching one right there, you know, let me think of
Speaker 1: another activist that got a real strong black wom move
Speaker 1: beside hold on mething about this coming coming. Do you
Speaker 1: all think that you all think with all of the
Speaker 1: stress and drain, that's escapism escapism? Do you think that No,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just that was question. That was exactly
Speaker 1: what was coming out of my mouth. Next, is that
Speaker 1: maybe you know this is escapism if you're dealing with
Speaker 1: the monument of stress and and troubles and and legalities
Speaker 1: that we have to fight through. Maybe this is maybe
Speaker 1: who you marry is your escape from all of it.
Speaker 1: But can I just inject this yours y'all know how
Speaker 1: sometimes when you're connected to your mate so well that
Speaker 1: like words don't have to be said, even if something's
Speaker 1: heavy going on and he comes to come home and night,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we don't have to discuss it. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's just a really tight hug and it's like then
Speaker 1: that hug we've said to each other, I love you,
Speaker 1: I got you when you ready, I'm here, blah blah,
Speaker 1: we said it in a hug. You know. Then listen there. Yes,
Speaker 1: it must be said. When President Obama and the first
Speaker 1: Lady Michelle Obama, when they gave each other a pound,
Speaker 1: there was something in me they lifted and sang and
Speaker 1: did a dancer through. It was something magical about that.
Speaker 1: I felt that, like yaws. But well, maybe that's part
Speaker 1: of our issue though, right, But we will take we
Speaker 1: will take performative backness over people who actually work hard
Speaker 1: for black people. I'm saying that that omative. What I'm
Speaker 1: saying is that a fist bump. I'm just saying a
Speaker 1: fist bump, a fist bump, right, is a specific type
Speaker 1: of black behavior that we associate with a certain kind
Speaker 1: of black lived experience right the culture. And I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that they haven't done anything to
Speaker 1: help black people, but they're not particularly people who are
Speaker 1: working in black liberation. This we know that's another topic
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But and so what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: that what I'm saying is that on on the level
Speaker 1: of importance in terms of their mating together, right, that
Speaker 1: seeing two black people together, that that that image, the
Speaker 1: image of that the image of their their cultural interaction
Speaker 1: is something that we that's important to us. But is
Speaker 1: it as important as the actual work around our liberation
Speaker 1: Because honestly speaking, I've had some problematic conversations with black
Speaker 1: men in particular about black liberation that have saddened me
Speaker 1: and hurt me to the core, about their thoughts around gender,
Speaker 1: around rays of our rights, supremacy, and all kinds of things.
Speaker 1: And I can say that having a mate who doesn't
Speaker 1: have that understanding them being black doesn't make the pill
Speaker 1: go down easy. No, it wasn't gonna make it going
Speaker 1: down easy. It's just a communication that we have as
Speaker 1: a people. I mean, it's just some basis these that's
Speaker 1: my point. But that what Jill was thinking fist bump,
Speaker 1: and she was saying fist bump. I was like, I
Speaker 1: was thinking about phinny other things that the Obama's kind
Speaker 1: of show black love, even in a touch, even in
Speaker 1: the way you grabbed my back, even then, there's something
Speaker 1: in conversation between black men and black women and a
Speaker 1: rhythm in a way. To me, I don't know, Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I actually we agree you're asking right, there
Speaker 1: is that is a rhythm that cannot be duplicated period. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm not speaking on just interracial relationship,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not talking about that. That's why this
Speaker 1: is specific to you know, like people like you said,
Speaker 1: doing during the work and doing that work and then
Speaker 1: leaving that work at work. It doesn't it doesn't doesn't
Speaker 1: go down the same though, does it. There would be
Speaker 1: the big dogs too, he'd be like, damn him, like
Speaker 1: damn me, do my whole geneology, you know everything about me?
Speaker 1: Like he know the dopeness of all this, and okay,
Speaker 1: but maybe at the time when he was young, she
Speaker 1: was supportive. I don't I mean, but that's that's typically
Speaker 1: the response. You know that she was there when I
Speaker 1: had nothing, and you know she was supportive. And who
Speaker 1: who doesn't want support when you're down at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the barrel? Who doesn't want that? Anyway? I don't
Speaker 1: know more conversation after the break. I also wonder about
Speaker 1: environments that I worry about access I worry about. I
Speaker 1: think about things sometimes where how we look at activists
Speaker 1: and intellectuals and people who find themselves in all these
Speaker 1: different circles. It's like, there's there's always gonna be activists
Speaker 1: no America where you go. I mean, if there's people suffering,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be people speaking up for them. But we
Speaker 1: have a tendency to also elevate people from academia. We
Speaker 1: elevate people who are from certain flagship organizations, things of
Speaker 1: that nature. A lot of times they come from you know,
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools, They come from the middle class upbringings.
Speaker 1: These are the upbringings that us as black people, have
Speaker 1: aspired to. And then their children, these young people go
Speaker 1: off to to Harvard, they go off to University of Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: they go off to all these different places. And though
Speaker 1: their parents might have instilled a sense of of of
Speaker 1: identity within them, their access to black folks and black
Speaker 1: folks who think like them. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm throwing it out there. That's not
Speaker 1: my living. Yeah, I'm just saying world. The world is
Speaker 1: planes and trains and and busses and such. You know,
Speaker 1: you can get what you want. You know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: find me some of the two boys. He said it himself.
Speaker 1: He was just like, listen, I was there, but I
Speaker 1: know they didn't want me there. I found the black
Speaker 1: folks and I had dinner with them. Yeah. So my
Speaker 1: mom always had this argument with her her friends who
Speaker 1: send their kids off to certain schools, because she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I get the elitism of it all, but
Speaker 1: you know you're already setting your son up to kind
Speaker 1: of date outside of what because he doesn't have access.
Speaker 1: And it's just funny that you said that, because I
Speaker 1: was like, sometimes it starts in It does start in
Speaker 1: education often times when you see that, that's how you
Speaker 1: see it. Who meet in college? Yeah, that these athletes
Speaker 1: who want to have these amazing athletic careers, they got
Speaker 1: to go to white schools to do that, and so
Speaker 1: how did you know allegedly I know they're changing that
Speaker 1: big up to Diana Sanders, And can I also say this,
Speaker 1: One thing I have noticed, having had a child attend
Speaker 1: to HBCU and done work with University of Pennsylvania and
Speaker 1: a lot of the staff with University of Pennsylvania, is
Speaker 1: that what I will see. What I see is that
Speaker 1: a lot of times black students who are more involved
Speaker 1: in black liberation work tend to come out of white schools.
Speaker 1: And a lot of that has to do with the
Speaker 1: fact that they're dealing with so much of that kind
Speaker 1: of on slot of racism. You'll find I hate this
Speaker 1: term woke, but this is like, you know, because people
Speaker 1: have messed it up. It used to be a good word.
Speaker 1: But the point is that it's like most of the
Speaker 1: wolt kids that that are our next you know, activists,
Speaker 1: they're coming out of those environments. So unless they picked
Speaker 1: from the Black Student Union with fifteen people at the
Speaker 1: at the freaking state school, then who are we talking about?
Speaker 1: Who are these people? Who? Who where are we at
Speaker 1: black people cent of the population in the United States
Speaker 1: of America. So but that's why, again, were you systems
Speaker 1: that got to change That's why Dion Sander said, I'm
Speaker 1: going to a black school to teach, you know, to
Speaker 1: teach to coach football. It's kind of like systems have
Speaker 1: to change. So I guess it's a process in that way.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what got me? Okay, like what
Speaker 1: got me right? I've had a I would say this,
Speaker 1: but at first, before I tell you what got me
Speaker 1: right or what got me in a different place, I
Speaker 1: won't say right. But you know, I've I've had some
Speaker 1: experiences like being on an elevator and I was particularly
Speaker 1: cute this day and I was in an elevator in
Speaker 1: the l a and the door open and a very
Speaker 1: attractive black man open comes in the elevator. He's followed
Speaker 1: by some other some men brothers with him, and um,
Speaker 1: I could tell that the one that you know walked
Speaker 1: in first was like and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: And then we're standing there and it feels like he's
Speaker 1: about to say something and the other man says to him,
Speaker 1: there were two other ones. One of the other two says,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't do that no more, right, and
Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, you're right, and they got off
Speaker 1: the elevator. Then that I'm sorry with the Lord. Yeah. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: I definitely felt that. I definitely felt that that there
Speaker 1: is a generation or I won't even say a generation
Speaker 1: of black men that are not dating black women at all,
Speaker 1: Like it's now a rule like we don't do that,
Speaker 1: you know, where we're past that or whatever the idea is.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I know that I've seen quite
Speaker 1: a bit of that. I've seen quite a bit of that.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you look at certain groups of
Speaker 1: brothers that you know, all of them, oh I hate
Speaker 1: to say, oh, but I know some brothers that they
Speaker 1: went to to a school and all their friends have
Speaker 1: all all married to Asian women, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: a it's a thing, like it's their thing. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think that this kind of stuff occurs with with black men.
Speaker 1: I've seen it. I don't think I know it. I've
Speaker 1: seen it. I've seen plenty of it, that there's a
Speaker 1: group think about not dating black women or being married with,
Speaker 1: you know, black women anymore. Okay, So when I said
Speaker 1: what got me, I don't know, I don't even know
Speaker 1: what to call it. I mean, a different mind state
Speaker 1: is when I met some black men that were married
Speaker 1: to Asian women and their kids were eating sushi with
Speaker 1: Kyla greens. You know, it sounds it sounds like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about. I'm saying that they're mixing the
Speaker 1: cultures together in a way where they're not forgetting that
Speaker 1: they are black because in the world their children are
Speaker 1: brown and you know, will automatically be assumed black. But
Speaker 1: also they were acknowledging their Asian descent as well, And
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, if relationships go like that, where there's
Speaker 1: an honor in it, a respect in it, then bully
Speaker 1: on Bravo. You know, if that's what it is, and
Speaker 1: that's what it is, like, I just don't like to
Speaker 1: see this, particular when there's a brother that is married
Speaker 1: to or is dating a white woman because he does
Speaker 1: not like himself. Now we have seen this and because
Speaker 1: he needs a break. I'm we've seen it. We've seen it.
Speaker 1: Sorry you know that that. Oh no, no, we know
Speaker 1: what's true. We know what's true. And it goes both
Speaker 1: ways for sisters too, and they're like me, need my
Speaker 1: baby to have good hair. I I I you know,
Speaker 1: I mean we definitely know that it's real. Yes, Like
Speaker 1: we're not making this off. There are situations in which
Speaker 1: people are most definitely like existing in a way that's
Speaker 1: deeply respectful of their culture. But in an example you used,
Speaker 1: I have to say to me, feel like it's slightly
Speaker 1: different because you know, out in the world today a
Speaker 1: person will call an Asian person a person of color
Speaker 1: and that and it also to to say to say
Speaker 1: to to say that I am Asian, it is not
Speaker 1: to say that I'm anti black. To embrace whiteness is
Speaker 1: to embrace anti blackness. And so if you're going to
Speaker 1: raise children or you're gonna do liberation work and you
Speaker 1: are or you're attached to somebody who is attached to
Speaker 1: whiteness and its committed to whiteness on on any level,
Speaker 1: then yeah, that's a huge problem. And that's way different.
Speaker 1: That's way different than than you know it does. It's
Speaker 1: still toxic to say, oh, I'm only gonna date this
Speaker 1: type of girl or this type of woman that is
Speaker 1: not only not black, but specific to a certain kind
Speaker 1: of you know, trajectory in life. Then I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's super toxic and and anti black at the same time.
Speaker 1: But it's just I just think that for us, at
Speaker 1: the core of it, it's still stings, and I don't
Speaker 1: I think we need to unpack that part, like why
Speaker 1: does this still hurt even in the slightest bit, especially
Speaker 1: when you see it over and over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. Well listen, I want to see and then
Speaker 1: defending myself. Years ago, I wrote an article for Essence magazine.
Speaker 1: It was supposed to be called I'm just saying, but
Speaker 1: they entitled it, uh Jill Scott on interracial marriage, which
Speaker 1: was not the topic of the article at all, which
Speaker 1: was not my intent or position. I was disturbed that
Speaker 1: they would throw me under the bus like that, you know,
Speaker 1: to sell magazines. And we we definitely Essence and I
Speaker 1: have made our way back from you know, never dealing
Speaker 1: with each other again to where we are now. But
Speaker 1: I felt so betrayed, so betrayed, and then I ended
Speaker 1: up being on CNN defending myself, you know, like, well
Speaker 1: that was racist, and I was like saying that, saying
Speaker 1: that it feels like a mosquito bite under a sundress.
Speaker 1: You know, you feel it, you feel it, and then
Speaker 1: you can still still keep moving and moving forward. And
Speaker 1: the worst when you know somebody no not no better.
Speaker 1: Because I don't want to say to you black on
Speaker 1: black love is better. It is, But what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: is is that you know this person even and even
Speaker 1: my favorite has so many it's like, damn, y'all got
Speaker 1: a black dude like you put you speak on this
Speaker 1: every day, you speak on our people. You hear you
Speaker 1: in the struggle, and okay, he keep holding you down,
Speaker 1: all right? This is mm hmm. I don't know. I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess. For me, I don't know. I just feel
Speaker 1: like the proof is kind of in the pudding For me,
Speaker 1: I don't And I notice is odd for me to
Speaker 1: say this based on what I would where I would
Speaker 1: typically be coming from, especially when we talk about safe
Speaker 1: spaces Agent, because earlier on, you know, when we started
Speaker 1: to show, we're talking about safe spaces for us and
Speaker 1: tribunals and how we can trust people, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: and I definitely felt like a tribunal and something that's
Speaker 1: cultural is different, because, like I said, even when you
Speaker 1: start looking into Indigenous people, they're certain power as you
Speaker 1: can't go to you can only certain people can go
Speaker 1: to so in that way, and if they following the rules,
Speaker 1: like she can't she can't go to the to the
Speaker 1: to that particular thing. You know, you can't come to
Speaker 1: the tribunal. Well, well, no, if that's what the culture
Speaker 1: of it, if that's the culture and that's the culture
Speaker 1: is accepted by the person who is a part of
Speaker 1: that culture, then no. But it's no different than like
Speaker 1: I said, any person like so if if if, if,
Speaker 1: if you have a ceremony for young boys coming into
Speaker 1: their mannerod, then know their mama can't go. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just a part of the way that people do things.
Speaker 1: And if that's a decided thing culturally, then I understand
Speaker 1: that that exclusion. But the thing is that people who
Speaker 1: are fighting is a particular late labor. That's a particular
Speaker 1: kind of labor. And I want them to have whatever
Speaker 1: it is they want to have, whatever there and I
Speaker 1: mean just whatever, whatever love that they have in their
Speaker 1: lives is fine with me. My problem is if we
Speaker 1: get to a point where we have to mince our
Speaker 1: words about whiteness because your mate is white. So that
Speaker 1: that part of it is And I know some people
Speaker 1: in struggle work or in liberation work who don't mince
Speaker 1: any words and don't require anyone else to mince words,
Speaker 1: But I think that that's the key for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But because you gotta trust that that other in the
Speaker 1: room when they hear these non mince words, that they
Speaker 1: don't take them with them and use them incorrectly or
Speaker 1: weaponize or whatever. Because I was literally gonna say I
Speaker 1: was dating dude once who told me, and it sounded
Speaker 1: so crazy when he said it, but he was like,
Speaker 1: he doesn't allow white people in his house. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, why is that. He was like, because
Speaker 1: black people seem to get start acting differently, and I
Speaker 1: wanted everybody to be comfortable in my home. That's why.
Speaker 1: So he wasn't there for the coast, which right, And
Speaker 1: so in that conversation, that's where we go back to
Speaker 1: our activist leaders and everything. I'm like, you're talking about you, like,
Speaker 1: can you be your full self all the time everywhere
Speaker 1: you are when your mate is also not doesn't have
Speaker 1: that live experience. And I guess the argument from that
Speaker 1: from that man would be that he's, um, you know,
Speaker 1: he's living past color, but doing this work. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm just assuming. I'm just assuming that
Speaker 1: that would be the argument that you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: my color, you know, but I see these issues and
Speaker 1: struggles in my community, and I'm here to fight for
Speaker 1: my community. I'll just I'll put this way, I'm put
Speaker 1: outside of the rhythm that we discussed, which I completely
Speaker 1: agree with, I just want to circle back to this point.
Speaker 1: Is that m politically okay and just in terms of
Speaker 1: just how we think about critically think about race, gender,
Speaker 1: white supremacy, whatever. That For me, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of the importance has to be placed on people's kind
Speaker 1: of you know, political education, because I feel like outside
Speaker 1: of the rhythm that we had, that is very easy
Speaker 1: to get into a relationship with another black person who
Speaker 1: is even less informed. Then let's say a white person
Speaker 1: who's married to a black person who does liberation work,
Speaker 1: and that can be really a difficult situation because you know,
Speaker 1: I find that to be just as problematic. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, You can really I find that to
Speaker 1: be just as problematic. And you can have a black
Speaker 1: person who's literally in the baby stages of their political education,
Speaker 1: right and they're in a room with a an interracial couple,
Speaker 1: and that white person is way further down the road
Speaker 1: than they. However, Asia, I kind of think that's that
Speaker 1: is definitely possible, and it definitely happens, but that collective
Speaker 1: is small. These women, your speaking. I don't know how
Speaker 1: long you say that population is call themselves and allies
Speaker 1: out loud. Did you know who was married to a
Speaker 1: white woman? Stop it, I need you to Yes, I
Speaker 1: didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yes, it didn't
Speaker 1: know that, Yes it did. Did you know he was
Speaker 1: by racial himself? Also? What I mean, yeah, most of
Speaker 1: us are? He was bye bye? I mean, was his
Speaker 1: parents in love or no? But he received a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot of privilege because of his skin color. Now
Speaker 1: privilege considering the time period, because of course, this is
Speaker 1: a man who survived slavery. Let me put that there,
Speaker 1: So I have no right to call him privilege, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said, in comparison to yeah, okay, the other black
Speaker 1: people of his time period now understand that. But I
Speaker 1: also understand that he still didn't take that ship lying
Speaker 1: down and said what the hell he thought? When he's
Speaker 1: like saying what he thought? This is true, But he
Speaker 1: was also extremely establishment. He was very much believed in
Speaker 1: the constitution, believed in this country. He wanted this country
Speaker 1: to work, where some of his peers wanted to leave.
Speaker 1: Of his peers were way more radical now. He even
Speaker 1: at Harriet Tubman. Yeah, he even talks about how Harriet
Speaker 1: Tubman that she was the radical that he was in
Speaker 1: all of her bravery. But so even when you look
Speaker 1: at a situation like him, you have certain ways that
Speaker 1: we look at people who are connected to white people
Speaker 1: in an intimate way. We tend to look at those
Speaker 1: people as conformists. And it's hard to think, how can
Speaker 1: you be radical and think outside of that conformity when
Speaker 1: you want to make a family with you want to
Speaker 1: be intimate with someone who doesn't have that same lived
Speaker 1: experience or that same investment in our liberal but if
Speaker 1: but a white person who understands things, understands their liberation
Speaker 1: is also tied to ours. Here but who he's like people?
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I know they exist. I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's his wife and his wife and
Speaker 1: you like, these are not the wives that I know
Speaker 1: things are the wives that I've seen it on these
Speaker 1: men's arms. Uh make me I wanna call names uh
Speaker 1: over here and sing and specialist person over there and
Speaker 1: actor actor actor rash over here. I listen, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying listen. I can't even argue with you. No, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be willing to say it's more of that
Speaker 1: I need a break. It's I think it may be
Speaker 1: a little bit more of that. I need a break,
Speaker 1: and you need a break from your mama. And Mike
Speaker 1: do Mike? Could? I guess could could Mike do? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let me say something bad. But for the women, for
Speaker 1: black women, being in relationship with black men as a
Speaker 1: double marginalized person can be very taxing, can be very
Speaker 1: very TAXI We'll be right back. Have you noticed at
Speaker 1: all if if you go on TikTok? Like the first
Speaker 1: time I went on TikTok, I was like, wait, every
Speaker 1: couple is in a racial like I had to go
Speaker 1: and change my algorithm. I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker 1: Every every couple, every couple that popped up on TikTok
Speaker 1: was it was a black man with a white woman
Speaker 1: and they had so much to say about so many things.
Speaker 1: And I was like, wait, okay, oh, y'all know, we
Speaker 1: know Ti we know TikTok is the land of I
Speaker 1: don't know. I stay away from the from China, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't. This was it was. It was everyone I said,
Speaker 1: aren't there any black couples on TikTok? Like there are?
Speaker 1: I mean, but I had to find them, find them.
Speaker 1: I had to find a whole TikTok and itself in
Speaker 1: their relationship with Big up to our our young TikTokers start,
Speaker 1: you know, protesting out there. Going back to Butoana, the
Speaker 1: king of Butanakoma, he married a white woman in London
Speaker 1: and almost lost. The respect was out the window from
Speaker 1: his people, and Mutowana people are are very kind and generous,
Speaker 1: but this was too much. He went off to school
Speaker 1: to study, as most Mutawana people do, but then here
Speaker 1: he comes shows up with a whole white woman that
Speaker 1: he was like insanely in love with and they were
Speaker 1: married and he had the country. Uh. Ben then for
Speaker 1: him the movie to David Owllio made nobody went to
Speaker 1: go see because he was like, God, paying your white wife. Uh,
Speaker 1: that very well could have been a portion of it,
Speaker 1: but I know that that happened. It's it's not just
Speaker 1: a movie. That's that's reality. I think it would be
Speaker 1: really nice. It would be really nice if the black
Speaker 1: man in particular would kind of acknowledge this thing that
Speaker 1: we all see and nobody talks about that. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: if you're famous and you're influential and you're a black man,
Speaker 1: you are married to a white woman, or you're married
Speaker 1: to a really light skinned, racially ambiguous looking woman or
Speaker 1: that has that same look, and it's like, yes, you
Speaker 1: can love whoever you want. Yes, we want love for you.
Speaker 1: Yes this is It feels like an old, raggedy conversation.
Speaker 1: But at the same time too, it's like, y'all, we're
Speaker 1: not blind, like I'm not blind like blind with Harry
Speaker 1: and and Sydney did it so kind of like I
Speaker 1: don't know, they just they started and they kept going right.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, and big up stair Harry,
Speaker 1: who was an amazing who is an amazing fighter. Jack Johnson,
Speaker 1: I think that's his name. Jack Johnson is a fighter.
Speaker 1: He got well, he got arrested for going over state lines.
Speaker 1: He had a he had a white woman with him,
Speaker 1: but he definitely was an advocate for that. He meant
Speaker 1: that thing he was gonna get him a white woman
Speaker 1: ain't married one, you know, I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's a thing, guys. I know. And then and
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta say to Asia, you know, if
Speaker 1: you said that to the black men in Hollywood, especially one,
Speaker 1: they will hit you back with. But y'all doing the
Speaker 1: same thing in Hollywood. They will hit you back with well,
Speaker 1: Shonda Ryn's um started a whole uh revolution, didn't she not.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this is what I've heard from black men, like,
Speaker 1: you know, okay they I mean, listen. I feel like
Speaker 1: it's a fair conversation either way. I just don't like
Speaker 1: that we are at this point now we all see it,
Speaker 1: and we just like, oh wow, we can't say that,
Speaker 1: Oh don't because I feel like it's keeping us from
Speaker 1: an important conversation, maybe about colorism, maybe it's a conversation
Speaker 1: about this or that. I just think it's some there's
Speaker 1: something in there in that pot that we're not talking about,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to do with your right to
Speaker 1: love anyone else. I think it's some old ship. It's
Speaker 1: some old ship that we still carry that that if
Speaker 1: you are more successful, you know, or you've done better
Speaker 1: in life, if you you know, if you have a
Speaker 1: light skin or a white woman, you know. It seems
Speaker 1: like that's the way, isn't isn't that the way that
Speaker 1: black men becomes I seen this with him. I say
Speaker 1: this within the gay community as well. Yeah, with men
Speaker 1: and women and um so I see. Yeah, I've seen
Speaker 1: some really women. They are really successful black men who
Speaker 1: are married to white men. See that's that, that's it's
Speaker 1: that's like. That's why I told you guys when I
Speaker 1: was watching this in mind was when I was watching
Speaker 1: April doing a documentary the thirteenth, and I was like
Speaker 1: looking at all the men that were doing their thing,
Speaker 1: and I was like, from gay to straight, I don't
Speaker 1: think any of these men are with black partners. And
Speaker 1: she had you know, like gay and straight black men commentating,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, not him, not not him, well,
Speaker 1: just man, because at this point, at this point, you're like,
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence, right, no, no, And it's not
Speaker 1: supposed to hurt us. We're not posted, I mean, and
Speaker 1: and I've I've changed my I've not changed my mind,
Speaker 1: but I've tried to put myself, you know, be progressive
Speaker 1: and be like like it's not supposed to hurt like that.
Speaker 1: So that's why I refrained this whole thing on activists
Speaker 1: and people who are doing the work, because I'm working
Speaker 1: so that the regular as white dude, black dude that
Speaker 1: I see loving on this white woman don't bother me.
Speaker 1: Don't we don't bother me like you're used to, m h.
Speaker 1: But then the ones to do the work and they're
Speaker 1: just talking about how dope we are and how we
Speaker 1: stuff and were struggling us just just too much. Well, honestly,
Speaker 1: you know how I feel. I feel hardly anybody who
Speaker 1: is not a black woman is advocating for black women.
Speaker 1: So any man I challenge I'll put the challenge out
Speaker 1: there right now. Any man, any black man who was
Speaker 1: doing serious work around black women's liberation, I invite you
Speaker 1: please come on this show and shut it all the
Speaker 1: way down, because I honestly don't see it. So I
Speaker 1: think part of that might be it too, is that
Speaker 1: we see people doing work, and this work is very
Speaker 1: male centered, is very black male center. It's not centered
Speaker 1: on the liberation of black women, and it's definitely not
Speaker 1: centered around the intersectional liberation of black women. So for me,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like, maybe that's really what it is.
Speaker 1: We just don't believe you mm hmm. Listen, we we
Speaker 1: talk about this all the time. We say it, I said,
Speaker 1: I know, I say it often at least, you know,
Speaker 1: once every other episode. But this is conversation to spark
Speaker 1: conversation where we're limiting ourselves. You know, we're not We're
Speaker 1: not being honest, we're not facing ourselves. There's there's something here.
Speaker 1: It sits in the in the it out of your gut,
Speaker 1: and then you reach out and you just like, thank
Speaker 1: you Lord for Samuel Jackson and maybe then Washington and
Speaker 1: a couple of others, but I want to name some more.
Speaker 1: But I also am careful not to dig too deep
Speaker 1: into this moment that I feel because I feel like this,
Speaker 1: this this aversion to to interracial couples. It is also
Speaker 1: a characteristic of politics that I can't stay. So it's like,
Speaker 1: so a lot of other people who think, who are
Speaker 1: really really have an issue with it. They also have
Speaker 1: issues with things that to me are are very misogynistic.
Speaker 1: And you know the quote unquote hotel situations that everybody
Speaker 1: talks about, you know that whole very misogynistic, very anti woman.
Speaker 1: So I'm careful not in my mind, I'm like, uh,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. I want to be honest,
Speaker 1: but I want to be careful not to align myself
Speaker 1: with politics and spaces that are shared with people who
Speaker 1: are like deeply problematic for me. Okay, okay, look, look Okay,
Speaker 1: let me put it on a different playing field. I
Speaker 1: have I have some white girlfriends that I genuinely love,
Speaker 1: and I think what I love most about them, obviously
Speaker 1: is their personalities and their life experiences and the things
Speaker 1: that that they share with me and I share with them.
Speaker 1: You know that it's friendship. But what I think works
Speaker 1: for me most is that they are white women that
Speaker 1: do not try to act like black women at all.
Speaker 1: They're you know, they're not my my, my white girlfriend
Speaker 1: who acts black. You know, it's like, so they ain't that,
Speaker 1: But but do they understand? Are you comfortable saying everything,
Speaker 1: saying anything I want to say at any time I
Speaker 1: want to say it, or we wouldn't be friends. You
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, We wouldn't be friends at all.
Speaker 1: I felt like I had to to bite my tongue
Speaker 1: about anything. I don't have to do that, and and
Speaker 1: and neither do they. And I can't imagine having a
Speaker 1: friendship and not being you know, completely one hunted and
Speaker 1: authentic with it. I'm saying, like, why I waste my
Speaker 1: time or why waste my time? But I like, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that I didn't put Stacy Wilson through the struggle.
Speaker 1: That did Um, we've been through the struggle. Have you
Speaker 1: been through the struggle. We've been through the struggle. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you something and I struggle. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you for what I'm saying this sense. That's why I don't.
Speaker 1: I have a couple of white I have a few
Speaker 1: white girlfriend But as far as me and Stacy Wilson go,
Speaker 1: like the trust that I have in her as a
Speaker 1: white woman and not doing and saying certain things because
Speaker 1: we've had these hard conversations, because she learned how I
Speaker 1: felt about interracial dating when I was on the radio
Speaker 1: and I'm living with her and when while she's dating
Speaker 1: a black man and we had to have these really
Speaker 1: hard conversations. Yeah, so it's hard for me to true
Speaker 1: love like white woman one percent because you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to raise your I gotta know that you will never
Speaker 1: You don't want to say nigga, you don't feel it.
Speaker 1: Even in the song, it's it ain't even something. You
Speaker 1: ain't jealous. You're just like that's just not for me,
Speaker 1: Like he's no what you're telling. What you're telling me
Speaker 1: is that because of her close relationship with you, a
Speaker 1: very informed black woman, that she is a part of
Speaker 1: that minority of white women who you're saying doesn't exist,
Speaker 1: because clearly it does. It does. But I'm not the
Speaker 1: only But I'm only gonna say, but that's because you
Speaker 1: have the intimate relationship with her. So therefore, these other
Speaker 1: people have an intimate relationship with somebody who I can't
Speaker 1: imagine them to have and not not in every search
Speaker 1: of intimate relationship because they're other white women. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Asia, I have other white girlfriends that I
Speaker 1: love them dearly. However, I also it's just not um,
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to. They're not listening.
Speaker 1: I just can't. I don't trust them as much as
Speaker 1: I trust her. I don't trust it. But I love
Speaker 1: them and in their marriage, what I noticed is that
Speaker 1: the girls on the surface, their children on the surface,
Speaker 1: don't seem to be very dialed into Black culture. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't seem where they live, where the whole environment
Speaker 1: just doesn't seem like that. And and like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, seem like because I don't live with them. Uh,
Speaker 1: this is just my outside of a pinion. Now, when
Speaker 1: this past year, when the conversation around at least violence.
Speaker 1: All this stuff comes up. It's almost like you would
Speaker 1: have to pretend like you didn't see it in order
Speaker 1: to not talk about it. And I have black children
Speaker 1: of any sort to act like you weren't talking about
Speaker 1: that with your kids. And I noticed that the attempt
Speaker 1: to engage the children about this tends to come tend
Speaker 1: to come from like a spiritual space because they're very
Speaker 1: involved with their church and this kind of Okay, now
Speaker 1: we have to kind of have this conversation of out
Speaker 1: blackness with our children, you know, and observing it from
Speaker 1: the outside, and it's like, wow, okay, So at first
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit judgmental. I won't even lie. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at it like really, y'all, like the whole world
Speaker 1: got to be on fire now for the kids to
Speaker 1: to be having this conversation, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And then it's still kind of what we are the world,
Speaker 1: the type of energy, and and I was a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, upset to one day my cousin's wife reached
Speaker 1: out to me and she asked me about her stepdaughter's hair,
Speaker 1: and she said, Okay, these are my stepdaughters, and I
Speaker 1: know their mom was also white. May not know everything
Speaker 1: about this, and I can kind of tell. So she
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I just want to know, like
Speaker 1: if you know what I should do, And so I'm
Speaker 1: like sure, because and then I kind of give her
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of information and blah blah blah blah
Speaker 1: bah blah, because these are my you know, they're my
Speaker 1: cousin's children. But they're like nieces, you know how blacks
Speaker 1: are anybody younger than you as your niece, anybody older
Speaker 1: than you was, you know. And so I'm like, these
Speaker 1: are my nieces. I'm you know, I'm going to help out.
Speaker 1: I walked away from that situation and thought, wow, And
Speaker 1: all the time I've known this woman, this is the
Speaker 1: first time we've ever had a conversation about the fact
Speaker 1: that she was raising black girls. She was just raising girls.
Speaker 1: She was just raising girls, right, So this is like
Speaker 1: my first time doing it. And this is a person
Speaker 1: who I know deeply loves my cousin. This is a
Speaker 1: person who I know deeply loves these girls. This is
Speaker 1: a person who was absolutely comfortable around my family. Who
Speaker 1: I know. She you know, she attends her church, she's
Speaker 1: a she's a good, you know, good Christian warman. Man,
Speaker 1: she's a good Christian woman, but she didn't just didn't
Speaker 1: dive into anything about black hair, didn't open up a book,
Speaker 1: you knowhing, But this is our first conversation, even having
Speaker 1: any conversation about being black at all. She follows me,
Speaker 1: y'all know how I talk. So it's like no conversation.
Speaker 1: But this is the first conversation. So what does that say.
Speaker 1: What is said to me is that people enjoy the
Speaker 1: bubble that they are in. When they feel loved, when
Speaker 1: they feel like their needs are being met, that's all
Speaker 1: that they care about. And I don't think that changes
Speaker 1: simply because you do liberation work. In fact, I think
Speaker 1: it increases, you know what I'm saying. And I think
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, you talk about
Speaker 1: things when the necessity comes up. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's a family systems issue that when you're in a family,
Speaker 1: when things come up, you discuss it. People are very
Speaker 1: rarely capable of thinking about things that had of time,
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, in a place in a country that tells
Speaker 1: you that you're the most important person in the room
Speaker 1: and that your race is the default, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: bring that up. You're not gonna bring that up unless
Speaker 1: somebody tells you that you should. Abody gives. So that
Speaker 1: means that she didn't get no black hair books for
Speaker 1: our little girls to learn how beautiful their hair is
Speaker 1: because they can do all kinds of things, and no conversations.
Speaker 1: Just I'm gonna come and put some moose in the
Speaker 1: ship for the first two years of your life until
Speaker 1: it gets difficult. I don't know. I more conversation after
Speaker 1: the break. I see very often the people care more
Speaker 1: about their ship suits than they do their black children.
Speaker 1: You see, you thought I said, I'm not kidding. I'm
Speaker 1: not kidding. I see it very often, you know, the
Speaker 1: little girl, you know, even at church. You know, I'd
Speaker 1: go into a church and I saw this baby and
Speaker 1: her hair was it was so mad at and it
Speaker 1: was like, okay, oh, I'm looking. I'm trying not to
Speaker 1: look at it, but at the same time, I can't
Speaker 1: help it, and I'm thinking she didn't get these braids out.
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to shave her head, like it's it's
Speaker 1: that bad. So I say to the mom at the church, Hey,
Speaker 1: how you doing um? And she says, I'm fine, how
Speaker 1: are you praise the Lord? That's all right? Break, you know,
Speaker 1: praise the Lord. And then let's say, I hope you
Speaker 1: don't mind, I'm noticing your daughter's braids. And she was like,
Speaker 1: I know, and I said, you know, you know what
Speaker 1: she said, I'm gonna take him out. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: them out. I'm gonna get him out. And then I
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, first of all, you gotta attitude in
Speaker 1: the church. I'm just trying to help, man, I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to help. Like and maybe you've heard it a lot,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm the fifth person today to say it. Then
Speaker 1: go in the parking lot and started start like you
Speaker 1: started taking out and start taking the braids out there
Speaker 1: got the bottoms of let me see some progress, some progress.
Speaker 1: It matters. It matters because what's gonna happen is she's
Speaker 1: gonna grow up hating her hair that part because her
Speaker 1: hair and like her mama hair, right, because my mama
Speaker 1: hair not like yours mommy. So come on now, of
Speaker 1: responsibility that comes along with that too, You know that,
Speaker 1: I promise that to me is just just as bad
Speaker 1: as the fact that black women a child be to
Speaker 1: two seconds out the woman, they'll be trying to put
Speaker 1: a PCJ in their head as a cut jab. It's like,
Speaker 1: we have a problem with anti blackness in this country
Speaker 1: and our kids are and our families are deeply affected
Speaker 1: by it. And to me, it's like, okay, yes, in
Speaker 1: my mind, my preference is to have my children in
Speaker 1: in a black community and surrounded by black people and
Speaker 1: having that rhythm that they would have with black folks
Speaker 1: at all times. And when you have a parent who's
Speaker 1: not black, that has to be an intentional thing as
Speaker 1: the plack parents to make sure that that happens. But
Speaker 1: that's on period when you got a black husband or
Speaker 1: wife too, because guess what black folks do, they get
Speaker 1: super anti black even when they got a black mat
Speaker 1: one time. No, that could happen. Happens, happens as a
Speaker 1: matter of culture, because I promise you I posted one
Speaker 1: time on my Instagram as an elder ever told you
Speaker 1: something deeply toxic And they thought they were teaching you
Speaker 1: something but taught you something deeply toxic. It was a
Speaker 1: telling thread because I promise you a lot of things
Speaker 1: came up. But we've talked about that before because it
Speaker 1: always go back to white supremacy and what they like
Speaker 1: it does. But this is my point at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, is that the coupling of it all,
Speaker 1: it's going to drag anti blackness into it no matter what,
Speaker 1: because that's the type of state we live in. That
Speaker 1: is the more this, this is the country we live in,
Speaker 1: the world that we live in. These systems are built
Speaker 1: on anti blackness, and no matter who we coupled with,
Speaker 1: will be contending with that, no matter what I am,
Speaker 1: And yeah, we'll be contending with that in a deep
Speaker 1: way no matter what. It'll just be different. You know.
Speaker 1: A black person's anti blackness is going is going to
Speaker 1: you know, uh, come to the surface in a different
Speaker 1: kind of way, you know. But it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: it's not happening, you know. I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: know I would you know. We were talking about Ursula
Speaker 1: Rucke the other day, who got the whitest the white
Speaker 1: mama's and she bought the black oftiest black person that
Speaker 1: I haven't, Which is interesting because most of my most
Speaker 1: of my girls that are have mixed parents usually them
Speaker 1: their mom is they usually have a black mom, which
Speaker 1: makes them even more conscious of who they are. So
Speaker 1: I find that interested about Ursela in that way, like
Speaker 1: that's dope. I mean so that that's the thing is
Speaker 1: that it's like it's hard for me to kind of
Speaker 1: put my finger on I know, I know the feeling
Speaker 1: that we're talking about, you know what I'm saying, But
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to pinpoint the union itself as
Speaker 1: the issue because it's not it's the it's the anti
Speaker 1: blackness that's the issue, right, It's the anti blackness. To
Speaker 1: get into the union, right, feel like into that union
Speaker 1: has to require a certain amount of anti black Yes,
Speaker 1: I do, because even when we say stuff like well
Speaker 1: maybe they feel like they need a break because they
Speaker 1: do the work, I'm like, well, that's anti blackness, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, yes, so, but does everybody that's what's saying.
Speaker 1: I don't know if everybody's thinking that one, right, you
Speaker 1: know what we have to do when yeah, we have
Speaker 1: to talk to to several people. We have because we're
Speaker 1: just because because other than that, we're assuming and it's
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of conjecture and we don't really understand
Speaker 1: and we ultimately are based somewhere. I mean, obviously there's
Speaker 1: information that we're aware of and things me. Yes, I
Speaker 1: did why because he was fine and we got along
Speaker 1: he was actually Jewish. I can't say. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you're talking about dating, it's like, you know, sleeping with
Speaker 1: or something. None of that ever happened. But we went
Speaker 1: on a date, and this is it changed everything, quite frankly.
Speaker 1: He came to pick me up. He had a cabriole
Speaker 1: and he had a convertible cabriole. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you guys remember that, but it was super cute. It
Speaker 1: was very cute. We worked at the ice cream poler together,
Speaker 1: you know, and he was he was inten was like,
Speaker 1: I'm coming to pick you up. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't think you should do that. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm coming to pick you up from your house. I'm
Speaker 1: coming to pick you up. So that's what he did.
Speaker 1: And I remember coming outside and my whole neighborhood in
Speaker 1: in in mid jump brokes everything and everybody stopped and
Speaker 1: was staring everything on the block. Everybody on the block
Speaker 1: was looking singing, dude, we it was quiet, okay. And
Speaker 1: I got in the car and I was so nervous.
Speaker 1: I was so nervous that you know, somebody was gonna,
Speaker 1: I don't know, hurt him. He's a nice guy, didn't
Speaker 1: want anybody anyway, We go um to South Street because
Speaker 1: that's what you did, you know then, so many many
Speaker 1: years ago. So we go to South Street and the
Speaker 1: brothers lost it. They were hollering, screaming down the street.
Speaker 1: No says no says no, you know what, And it
Speaker 1: could have done it definitely could have been peer pressure
Speaker 1: at that moment. But I was like, I don't ever
Speaker 1: want another black man to feel this way when they
Speaker 1: see me. I just don't. You don't give him no
Speaker 1: look when you see uh no, no, what you mean
Speaker 1: when you see interracial couple, you're saying that you don't
Speaker 1: want another black men to feel that way when he's
Speaker 1: on a white woman. I don't want to. I didn't
Speaker 1: want another black man to feel that way about me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, we already got so much going on. I
Speaker 1: don't want them the betrayal, the betrayal. I didn't want
Speaker 1: them to feel like that. I didn't. I didn't like that.
Speaker 1: I didn't like how it felt. But what if he
Speaker 1: was going to teach you real good, Jill? But I
Speaker 1: mean I can still learn. I don't know what else
Speaker 1: he could have feel like, the chances are still. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just did not like that feeling, and it was
Speaker 1: enough for me. It was enough for me. Black men
Speaker 1: don't seem to have those feelings because we're also not
Speaker 1: in the street like no, no brother, No, We're not
Speaker 1: like just I don't know, I don't don't know that
Speaker 1: we ever did. I don't know that we did. We didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't say no brother when we don't. We didn't
Speaker 1: feel that empowered. We just gave a look or dirty
Speaker 1: look or I think it was more dirty looks. I
Speaker 1: can't a lie to you guys on in social media
Speaker 1: when people can't When when when when I've heard, when
Speaker 1: I've seen this conversation happening. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: black women are like, this is an outdated conversation. Care
Speaker 1: be cares who you're married to? Who da da da da?
Speaker 1: And I think maybe, like I said earlier, we just
Speaker 1: got to get to the core of what the betrayal
Speaker 1: is and where why we feel it, because that is
Speaker 1: a really important conversation. Otherwise we're just tucking it under
Speaker 1: the rug and pretending to be okay with something that
Speaker 1: we're not really okay with. And when when At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, it is other people's personal decision
Speaker 1: to when they don't need our permission to do anything
Speaker 1: and their life at the end of the day, that
Speaker 1: like the numbers are are dwindling, right. So like when
Speaker 1: I moved to l A, I had two girlfriends that
Speaker 1: had to have a talk with me out me opening
Speaker 1: my dating mind because I wasn't meeting anybody, and they're like, like,
Speaker 1: you got to date out of your race. And I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, I'm open to it. Like you know,
Speaker 1: he liked me, I like him. Man, this time I'm
Speaker 1: single and I'm I'm looking for something, and I was
Speaker 1: open to it. But what I also realized is that
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm not that approachable for a
Speaker 1: lot of white men because I don't get approached by
Speaker 1: white man They're not aggressive. And I like a man
Speaker 1: the cup and tell me how he feels and how
Speaker 1: I look and all of that stuff, and and he's say,
Speaker 1: you're fine, motherfucker. Won't you back that thing exactly? And
Speaker 1: maybe that those white oneings just I think in the
Speaker 1: South sometimes, like I was in Tennessee a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago and a white man was like, hey, yallow dress.
Speaker 1: But that was the first time that a white man
Speaker 1: had hollered at me since I can remember. So I
Speaker 1: think that from a numbers point to for some single
Speaker 1: black women out there who do want to date a
Speaker 1: black man, it even though this is an outdated conversation,
Speaker 1: it ain't when you start dating and you realize it
Speaker 1: ain't nothing out there and you're competing, shout up to
Speaker 1: my girlfriends with your Asian and your white girlfriend because
Speaker 1: they don't want the day Asian of white men that one.
Speaker 1: So this is where it becomes not outdated when you
Speaker 1: are looking for black love and and then there's an
Speaker 1: argument in the back of your head, well, if you
Speaker 1: want family, I don't want him anyway. But it's still
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, but we yea though, But I feel
Speaker 1: like I feel like and I don't think you do this,
Speaker 1: by the way, but I think we have to be
Speaker 1: very careful that we understand black love the way black
Speaker 1: love just shows up. I think we have a tendency
Speaker 1: and I and I saw this happen when for Tam
Speaker 1: and I got started. They're like, why y'all want to
Speaker 1: talk about your marriage? What you want to talk about that? For? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing. But then we've seen
Speaker 1: it grow over the years. Now, black love is like
Speaker 1: a thing, you know what I mean. It's like hashtag
Speaker 1: goals thing, right, It's a whole TV show. And so
Speaker 1: for me, I think we're we're we gotten to this
Speaker 1: point also to somewhat romanticize it, and I want to
Speaker 1: see black love be looked at as something that just
Speaker 1: shows up as it is, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And I think we gotta be real careful with that,
Speaker 1: because when you're out in the dating pool, I can
Speaker 1: imagine that this this this ideal is competing with your
Speaker 1: reality and that that is making it harder on black
Speaker 1: women in particular. Then it has to be you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. On on the TikTok, the black ladies
Speaker 1: show a look on the tik the black with white dudes.
Speaker 1: They look happy. White men like to wear the snugly, right,
Speaker 1: the snuggly, the little thing that the don't sits in
Speaker 1: and the thing that the baby sits in that attached
Speaker 1: to the front of your body. A white men like
Speaker 1: the baby. They like they like to wear the snuggly.
Speaker 1: That's my one thing and that men like to do
Speaker 1: that dude ain't doing. It's a joke. It was like
Speaker 1: a bad racial joke. Sorry, I apologize, I'm sorry. It's sorry.
Speaker 1: I did on these streets every day, but I finally
Speaker 1: did get a black dude of l a. I had
Speaker 1: so many sisters. How you do that? You do that?
Speaker 1: Like he's gonna sat Louis. I got a preference, and
Speaker 1: that is what it is, what it is I have.
Speaker 1: I have many I have many reasons that I don't
Speaker 1: need anybody else to understand. But I definitely have always
Speaker 1: wanted to to be with a black man. That's all.
Speaker 1: That's all I maybe, you know, maybe the girl that
Speaker 1: fell in love with her dad. You know, hey, what
Speaker 1: do you what do you want? I get it, I
Speaker 1: get it. People are gonna love who they love. You
Speaker 1: already know that ship like you know about it. Listen,
Speaker 1: we are out here, okay, we're having conversations to spark
Speaker 1: conversations hopefully revealing some thoughts and feelings and issues concerns. Well, um,
Speaker 1: help us get to the other side of the road.
Speaker 1: That's the goal, which is, in fact, screw the road.
Speaker 1: We're really trying to get to the other side of
Speaker 1: the sky, you know, trying to understand what this whole
Speaker 1: humanity business is all about and if you can open
Speaker 1: your head in your heart and maybe comment you maybe
Speaker 1: talk about it amongst sure people you know, maybe send
Speaker 1: us a message. We can get a little further. We're
Speaker 1: not trying to land at the exact answer, but we
Speaker 1: do want to go further than where we are. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. This has been j dot
Speaker 1: l the Podcast. Hi, if you have comments on something
Speaker 1: we said in this episode called eight six six, Hey Jill,
Speaker 1: if you want to add to this conversation that's eight
Speaker 1: six six three nine five, four five five. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to tell us your name and the episode you're referring to.
Speaker 1: You might just hear your message on a future episode.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Jill Scott presents Jay dot
Speaker 1: Il the Podcast. This podcast is hosted by Jill Scott,
Speaker 1: Layah st Clair and Agr Graden Danceler. It's executive producers
Speaker 1: are Jill Scott, Shawn g and Brian Calhoun. It's produced
Speaker 1: by Layah st Clair and me Eves Jeff Cope. The
Speaker 1: editing and sound design for this episode we're done by
Speaker 1: Christina Larenger. J dot Ill is a production of I
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