1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: straight Fire Fame. It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for Wednesday, February. 3 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Thank you guys for allowing me to take a rare 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: day off on Tuesday. Um, just you know what the 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Monday holiday, I worked early in the morning, did the 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Dan Patrick Show, but put out a podcast of Straight 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: Fire and on the road for a little mini road 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: trip um this week with the FAM for what is 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 1: called Ski Week in California. And um, I was able 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: to take a day off. And uh, you know the 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: beauty of taking a day off in February is that 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff that happened that you don't really 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: want to talk about happen, and it's just like there's 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: no wind, there's no upside, like our people that interested. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: And then you wait and lo and behold as Tuesday unfold, 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers decides to pipe up pipe. But Aaron Rodgers, 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: you know it's funny the guys who have made news 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: here in the last two weeks, right post Super Bowl 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: or like in and around the Super Bowl. You've got 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: Tom Brady, I think I'm gonna retire. You've got Lebron James, Oh, 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna play with my son in two 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: years wherever that is. And now Aaron Rodgers who posts 23 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: a cryptic Instagram post about his breakup with his fiance 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: Shyeleen Woodley, and I know some of the real conspiracy 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: theorists will say, boy, Aaron Rodgers has dated a lot 26 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: of famous girls and he has really broken up with them, 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: like just as the off season begins every single time. 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: What's that all about. During the season he's with football 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: while engage slash dating, and then the off season happens 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: and he breaks up. I'll let you, guys, let that 31 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: one marinate for a little bit. I'm not going to 32 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: dive into that Aaron Rodgers dating game. But what was 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: more interesting was after where he went on a radio show. 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: I think he went on a show on Serious Tuesday 35 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: and decided, you know what, I'm gonna talk about some 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: important stuff and he goes on this rant about a 37 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: twelve day cleanse that he took. First of all, I 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: gotta give Aaron Rodgers props because if anybody has done 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: a cleanse twelve days is unheard of. I've tried to 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: do like four days, three days. That's tough. As hell 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: man just drinking water for two days and that's it. Now, 42 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers went dump. I mean, like off the reservation deep. 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna try to say any of the 44 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: words these um in depth yoga ish healing sort of 45 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: things where he basically does a cleanse and he's it 46 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: comes out of it and he's all gratitude. I'm just 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: so thankful for everything, not normally thankful. I don't know 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: to me my big takeaway, and this one's obvious. I 49 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: should surprise nobody. But this is the second coming of 50 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: Brett Farve in Green Bay, where every year it's drama 51 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: drama king in Green Bay. Brett Farve, Well, I think 52 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna retire. Now I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna retire. 53 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna come back. Wait, you don't want me back. Okay, 54 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: I'll go play for the Jets because you guys won't 55 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: trade me in the Division five. I'm going to Minnesota 56 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: this year. And like this was like a four year 57 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: dalliance that Brett Farve had with the Packers, and they 58 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: got annoying an old quick and frankly, I'm already sick 59 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: of the Aaron Rodgers this is the second offseason of 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: Willie or won't He and it's it's like, really, are 61 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: we doing this already? I mean, bro, it's February, like 62 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: we've We're still a month away from any big moves 63 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: in a NFL free agency, any moves even potentially happening. 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: And I know that obviously the franchise tag stuff starts 65 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: up this week, but overall, it's just such an embarrassment 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: for Rogers. And I get it, he wants some attention. Okay, 67 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: that's your bad, go for it, you know, but this 68 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: is just gonna be Brett Farve read Ducks, and it's 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: gonna be annoying. And with the amount of media coverage 70 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: that we have now versus that we had I don't know, 71 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: ten years ago, fifteen years ago when far I was 72 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: doing his thing, I think it's gonna get old quick. Personally, 73 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: it's already all for me. I'm one of these guys. 74 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: Ship or get off the pot? Aaron Rodgers? Do you 75 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: want to leave? What do you want to say? These 76 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: cryptic Instagram posts? I know you think they're cool, but man, 77 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: that's lame. I love how he put in the last 78 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: slide of his Instagram post the picture of the Packers 79 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: lining up for the anthem against the Chiefs. Rogers was 80 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: not there and he had They left space where he 81 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: would be standing in between two players, and he posted 82 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: that picture. You know why, because he wants attention. He 83 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: wants people like me. He wants people on the radio, 84 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: on TV, on party. And we're writing online, writing about 85 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers, prattling on about Aaron Rodgers. What does it mean? 86 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: This is right out of the Lebron playbook. Tom Brady 87 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: has done this. Lebron has done this. All the big 88 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: stars do this. The guys who really want attention, they 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: get it. And now here I am five minutes in, 90 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: all about Aaron Rodgers and is he gonna stay? What 91 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: is the pot? What? What was the Instagram post mean? 92 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: And I could I know, it's obviously exciting when you 93 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: get Aaron Rodgers, you're gonna go somewhere. But a couple 94 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: of people have made the point to me, h, a 95 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: are are we sure wherever he goes is instantly a contender? 96 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: And I made yeah, the Packers are a contender every year. 97 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: And then the counter as well, they haven't won a 98 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: Super Bowl or gotten to one in a minute, so 99 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: why do we think it's a lock. Well again, now 100 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: you can get granular and break down all the Packers 101 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: playoff failures. How many can you pin directly on Rogers? 102 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: I'll wait, I'll hang up and wait. As they say 103 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: in the streets, the answer is not many. Um, Aaron 104 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: Rodgers is instantly going to make Denver or whomever a 105 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: legit contender. They will vault into the top five, maybe 106 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: top three of Super Bowl odds, and the Packers will 107 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: come down the list because Jordan's love is not gonna 108 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: do Jack squat in Green Bay. I am still of 109 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: the belief Rogers is leaving. I don't think he's coming back. 110 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: Part of is part of it is that part of 111 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: that heart overhead, you know, the usual boy. I would 112 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: love him to go to Denver. There's the amount of 113 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: content that it will provide us content providers, podcast, TV, radio, digital, 114 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: social media. If you talk about football in any way, 115 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: shape or form, you would love Aaron Rodgers to leave. 116 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: It's the better story. He stays, Oh he's staying green Bay. 117 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: Good again, They're gonna win the division. Shrug speaking of 118 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: we got a great guest today, No shrugs about it. 119 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: Ian O'Connor, former ESPN guy. He's at the New York 120 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: Post now and he just wrote a book on Coach 121 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: K that I think is going to be a big deal. 122 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: And I've known in before i've interviewed him. I was 123 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: a huge fan of his watching him on the Sports 124 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: Reporters back in the day, back when it adder John 125 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: Saunders R. I P. This is like two thousand and two, 126 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: maybe thousand four, and you O'Connor's great journalists, and it's 127 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: it's funny. Some of the stuff he says about Coach 128 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: K you know, you expect and the other stuff was like, oh, 129 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: as the great Rapper Redman said, press rewind if I 130 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: haven't blown your mind right, it's not a bad line. 131 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: Oh speaking of uh, you guys are gonna love the 132 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: O'Connor in an interview. And I need to give a 133 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: two thumbs up to the TV show bell Air on Peacock. 134 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: I checked out the first episode. I was like, Wow, 135 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: this is great. You've got basketball fighting, trash talk, the 136 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: fresh Prince in the modern version. My wife was like 137 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: thirty minutes and no thanks, this is la okay. So 138 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: I showed it to my son who's ten about to 139 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: be eleven, and you know, it has a lot of 140 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: the N word and the forward and all this stuff, 141 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: and I was a little skittish, but you know, when 142 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: he's going to middle school next year, he's got to 143 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: know this stuff. And some of it he already knows, 144 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: but he's way into it, like he really likes bell Air. 145 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: I highly recommended. Um. Again, it's it's probably not gonna 146 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: be for everyone. But if you like sports and you 147 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: like the original Fresh Prince, and you like shows that 148 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: are kind of remade and modernized a k. A. Cobra Kai, Um, 149 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: I think you're gonna like this. I have two thumbs up. 150 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: Highly recommended. Also recommended the interview now with Ian O'Connor 151 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: of The New York Post and his book on Coach 152 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: k Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup 153 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox 154 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio 155 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: app search f s R to listen live. Jason likes 156 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: to think he knows everything when it comes to sports. 157 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: You know what sports fans want, But for everything he doesn't. 158 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: He knows a guy who does. Let's just say, I 159 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: know a guy who knows a guy he knows another guy, 160 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: all right, let's welcome into straight Fire, a long time column. 161 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: This TV guy I used to watch him on The 162 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: Sports Reporters, but basically the best sports debate show ever 163 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: before all these other debate shows happened. He is Ian O'Connor, 164 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: and he wrote a book recently out this week, Coach K, 165 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: The Rise and Rain of Mike Shasky Ian. How are 166 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: you man? Hey, Jason, good to see again. How are you? Yeah? 167 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: It's great, great to talk and uh catch up a 168 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, obviously you're in the news a ton. 169 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: The timing of this could not be better. Uh, Coach 170 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: K swan song March Madness coming up. Um. What's the 171 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: response been so far from the passionate Duke Blue devil 172 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: fans who love to defend Showski. I think yes, some 173 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: fans were a little taken aback by some of the 174 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: excerpts and maybe got the impression that this was some 175 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: sort of takedown of Mike Sachowski, which it is not. 176 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: It's just an historical documented as you know, Jason. For 177 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: it for it to be a fair, honest and thorough 178 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: examination of what really has been a great American life, 179 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: the negatives have to be in there too. Can't just 180 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: be the positives, and so I think it's very fair. 181 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: That's the one thing. And this is my fifth book. 182 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: That is the ultimate goal for me and and I 183 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: feel like i've I've met that goal every time out 184 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: of the box with these books is to be fair. 185 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: And fair sometimes means to uh, listen, You're asking the 186 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: subject sometimes to accept things that are are hard for 187 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: people to accept. If somebody, I mean nobody outside of 188 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: my immediate family cares about my life, but if somebody 189 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: did and wrote a book about me, I'm sure I 190 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't love the negatives and the flaws and the mistakes 191 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: being in there. So I'm asking Mike Kaschowski, like I 192 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: did Bill Belichick, to understand that's just part of it. 193 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: It has to be part of it. But that's not 194 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: an easy thing to accept. But he was asked about 195 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: it yesterday and he said he hadn't read it yet, 196 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: but he said some things about about me. So my 197 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: suspicion is he had a family member or two or 198 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: three read it and the report back to him was 199 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: that it was fair. But that's just my my best guess, right, 200 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: I do want to back up and ask when you 201 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: approached him about the book or you know how that 202 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: process went. Was he receptive, was there a face to face, 203 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: was a resume a call? Because he can be a 204 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: prickly fellow. From my very very limited dealings with him, 205 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: he can right for start, as Belichick tried to block 206 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: everybody my last book from from talking to me and 207 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: asked a lot of people not to talk to me, 208 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: and some listen to him, some maybe not so much. 209 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: But Mike did not do any of that. And I 210 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: believe my first communication with him or anybody at Duke 211 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: was an email to John Jackson, his chief communications officer 212 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: at the university, and asking for an audience that before 213 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: he says yes or no, can I just sit in 214 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: front of him and explain what I want to do, 215 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: what my purposes with this project, and then whatever decision 216 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: he makes, certainly I'll live with and and go forward. 217 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: But I didn't get that audience. My understanding is he 218 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: met with his family, which he does for any significant decisions, 219 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: his wife and his three daughters, and they came to 220 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: a decision will take a pass on it. But again 221 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: to his credit, he didn't block anybody, and so I 222 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: ended up seeing him not long after that at Madison 223 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: Square Garden talked to him a little bit about it, 224 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: and he said at the time, I have nothing against 225 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: you or or the project. I'm not going to contribute, 226 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna block anybody. And he did live 227 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: up to that pledge. Interesting and now I do know. Uh, 228 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: sometimes when you chase uh stories about certain people, you'll 229 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: go to them, they'll say no, then you may be 230 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: traded back channels. Did you try any of his other guys? Hey, 231 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: can you put in a word to Mike. I've got 232 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: kind of a decent reserve here, well known you wrote 233 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: for ESPN for over a decade, Like, did you try 234 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: any of that and had that go? I did? Obviously 235 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: I've done that too with excuse me, past the subjects, 236 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: and uh, there wasn't any real movement on it. What 237 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: I also did, Jason was last spring I I went 238 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: down to Duke and basically laid out the significant negatives 239 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: in the book in the hope that Mike would then 240 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: want to sit down on the record to provide counterpoints, 241 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: context explanations for some n c A rules issues and 242 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: and that have popped up over the years in his program. 243 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: And that frankly, a lot of rival schools believe that 244 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: the n c A does give Duke the benefit of 245 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: the doubt, that the n doesn't afford anybody else. So 246 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: uh So, anyway, I laid those negatives out, which I 247 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: actually believe is the right way to do it. You 248 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: give the subject a chance to answer to that, and 249 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: and before it's in print, so there are no surprises. 250 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: And I was hoping there that maybe he would agree 251 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: to sit with me, and he didn't. So uh he 252 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: stayed true to what he said he was going to 253 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: do on on both sides of it. And I will 254 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: say this, I had an experienced once with I wrote 255 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: a book on Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicholas. Arnold Palmer 256 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: declined to cooperate, initially politely in his office in Orlando, 257 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: but then he said to me as I left, if 258 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: Jack decides to help you, let me know. So I 259 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: took that to mean Arnold did not want Jack to 260 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: define this book and this rivalry. So I needed Jack 261 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: to say, yes, I'll help you, and he did. And 262 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: once Jack said that and I called Arnold back, he said, okay, 263 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: I'll sit down with you. I mean, yeah, I found 264 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: pretty humorous. I am curious that the Bob Knight's stuff 265 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: obviously is making the rounds. We know Bob Knight's history checker, 266 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: great coach. I'll don't let other people decide what they 267 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: want to say about him as a person. I'm curious, 268 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: how did he handle it when you reached out or 269 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: did you not reach out or to Tonight about the book? Oh? No, 270 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: I reached out to him. I sent him messages, text 271 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: and then I went to friends of his and asked 272 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: them to carry listen. I believe he's in declining health, 273 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: and so I don't know where he is in terms 274 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: of command of of thought and so forth. But I 275 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: certainly reached out to people close on and reached out 276 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: the family members, friends in an attempt to try to 277 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: get some form of communication or establish a line of 278 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: communication to him directly, and just didn't get any response. 279 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: But I certainly made the effort, and I wanted his 280 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: side of the story in terms of the fracture and 281 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: that relationship, but unfortunately I didn't get it. It's weird. 282 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: I'm a huge college basketball fani and but I feel 283 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: like the prime of the sport when it was at 284 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: its best was kind of eighties nineties. Now that could 285 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: be a reflection on me when I was growing up, 286 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: and it was I was highly impressioned by college basketball. 287 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: But Night and coach k early nineties, late eighties, like 288 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: that feels like the pinnacles of sport. I don't want 289 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: to say it's going downhill. It's just not the same 290 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: product it once was. Would you agree? I would, Jason, 291 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: I think you're right. In the eighties to me and 292 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: the and the nineties, going to the Big East Tournament 293 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden, there was nothing more electric than that, 294 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: and and to see and back, and of course you 295 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: had four year rivalries develop over time, Mullen versus Ewing 296 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: and and just some some great coaches and figures in 297 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: the Big East and elsewhere, of course. But uh, the 298 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: only college basketball figure I would consider writing a book 299 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: on at the time I made this decision was the 300 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: one I wrote the book on. And I would not 301 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: have said that back in the eighties and nineties, I 302 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: thought there were a lot of figures worthy of of 303 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: that treatment. You could argue John Calipari now maybe, um, 304 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: but yeah, college basketball is just it ain't what it 305 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: used to be. And that's a shame. And I wonder, um, 306 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: you know, coach k Roy Williams, Bob Knight, a distant past. Um, 307 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, where where is the sport now? Because it's 308 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: coach k gonna significantly hinder things for college but like 309 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: he's easy to market, right he was coaching Team USA basketball. 310 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: I just wonder if his you know, departure, really, do 311 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: you think it will not cripple college basketball? But it's 312 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: gonna definitely, yes, And it's a blow to the sport 313 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: and one that really can't afford too many of these. 314 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: It's a gut punch, no question. He gave you there 315 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: was something you could identify with tethered to college basketball 316 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: that's now gone. And what's there the Trans REPORTAL. And 317 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm generally pro player rights. I believe in n I L. 318 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: I think they should have been paid long ago. Free agency. 319 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: I think players should have the same free agency as 320 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: as coaches. Coaches walk out of contracts all the time, 321 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: so I have no problem with that. But it does 322 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: have an effect on the sport where you're trying to 323 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: figure out who's coming and going, and it's hard to 324 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: really with the free agency through the Trans REPORTAL on 325 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: top of one and done and now significant coaching figures 326 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: like Schowski leaving. Yeah, where is college basketball? I don't know. 327 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: I see seven hundred games on seven hundred different cable 328 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: channels and trying to follow it. I think it's a 329 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: very difficult sport to keep track of. Fox Sports Radio 330 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch 331 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com 332 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: and within the I Heart Radio app search f s 333 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: R to listen live. I do want to point out 334 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: something Coach K. You know, he started in the Duke 335 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: in the early eighties. I'm looking at his record IAN 336 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: and he was below five hundred twice and then lost 337 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: in I believe the first round of the n c 338 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: A Tournament twice five years in and I seem to 339 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: remember not from I was too young at the time, 340 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: but in the aftermath, like coach K was nearly fired 341 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: after the first five years. Do you think that any 342 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: coach now who had this lack of success that Coach 343 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: K did at Duke in the first five could survive 344 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: in this current era. No, and and frankly that that 345 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: coach would not have been hired at Duke. There's no 346 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: question the idea at the time, as a guy named 347 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Tom Butters hired a nine and seventeen coach from Army 348 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: to take over at Duke. Duke had been in the 349 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,479 Speaker 1: national championship game a couple of years before Bill Foster 350 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: and and lost to Kentucky. And they're gonna hire a 351 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: nine and seventeen guy from Army whose name nobody could 352 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: spell or pronounce. And there was another official in the 353 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: athletic department, Steve v. Sendek, who was a former very 354 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: good player. He had seen Showski coach a little bit 355 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: at Army and really liked him, and and the a 356 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: D like defense. Showsky was all about defense, and he 357 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: just had a good feel about him. When he interviewed him. 358 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: He's like, I think this guy's special. Uh. And so 359 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: he he couldn't pull the trigger on it. I can't 360 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: hire a nine and seventeen coach at Army at Tuke. 361 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: But he finally did. And in the early years, the boosters, 362 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: the fans, the alums, the students, even the faculty wanted 363 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: him gone. They wanted Stowsky out of there. And and 364 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: you have Dean Smith winning the national title in eighty two, 365 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: you have Valvano winning the national title in eighty three 366 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: right in his backyard, and this guy is losing games 367 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: he lost to Wagner at home Wagner, which was a 368 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: really bad E C a C Metro team, And so 369 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: then then there was a scene in the book he 370 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: loses at Princeton, which wasn't a terrible loss, but they 371 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: lost I think by his seventeen points. And there's a 372 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: scene where the assistant coaches after the game at Princeton 373 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: are looking for Mike and they can't find them. Well 374 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: one Bobby Dwyer walks into a side room and there's 375 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: Mike sitting there crying alone because he thought he was 376 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: losing hold of his dream job or a dream job. 377 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: So there were some really dark moments in the first 378 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: particularly three three and a half years, and Butters gave 379 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: him a contract extension, which is unbelievable today that would 380 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: have never happened. Shoski would have been gone. So credit 381 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: to the A D. And it was a different time 382 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: and place in the sport. Was there a certain player, 383 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, Danny Ferry, j billis Mark Allery. Was 384 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: there a certain player that turned it around? Because you know, 385 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: the fortunes went from you know, sputtering sputtering, sputtering two 386 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: I believe five street trips to the final four, which 387 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: is crazy Johnny Dawkins, Johnny Dawkins, and that was a 388 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: listen the class did. There was the documentary on ESPN, 389 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: The Class That Save Coach K. So it was a 390 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: class of billis Allery. Allery was really good, Henderson, a 391 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: couple of other guys, and of course Dawkins was the 392 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: key getting him. Change everything for Coach K. Finally they 393 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: had some talent to compete with Carolina in the first 394 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: round NBA picks they had on a regular basis, and 395 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: Dawkins was afraid of nobody, so that changed it and 396 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: getting him, and of course in eighty six they get 397 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: to the National championship game against Louisville and Jason. They 398 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: should have won that game. Coach Coach K actually took 399 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: the air out of the ball. They had a lead 400 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: of five seven points save five minutes left, and he 401 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: tried to work the shot clock, and I remember Billy 402 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: Packer on the broadcast saying, this is a mistake because 403 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: they're they're getting they're waiting till the end of the 404 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: shot clock, and they're taking bad shots and missing. And 405 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: the Cardinals game back and won the game. And really, 406 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: Coach K might have cost Duke a national title by 407 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: doing what he did in those final moments, and that 408 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: they were really the Buffalo Bills before the Buffalo Bills. 409 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: They couldn't win the Big one, eight six, lose the 410 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: championship game, eight eight, lose the Final four, eight nine 411 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: lose final four, and nine gets destroyed by Vegas in 412 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: the championship game. So it's amazing to think that he 413 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: was Marv Levy before there was Marv Leavy. That's crazy 414 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: to think of. I never thought of it like that, 415 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: But the struggle before success is is a pretty great theme. 416 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: I am curious, um, you know that that UNLV game, um, 417 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: the the loss and then the victory the following year. 418 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: I felt like maybe that was the one of the 419 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: big moments in college basketball of the last I don't know, 420 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: fifty years. Obviously there was the shot against Kentucky, but 421 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: simply beating that UNLV team, which was a juggernaut. Uh. 422 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: Is that figure prominently in the Bookie? Yes, Jason absolutely 423 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: changed everything for Duke and UNLV is the best team 424 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: I've ever seen an undefeated juggernaut across two seasons. And 425 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: I was on the UNV plane fly into u Indianapolis, 426 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: sitting with Tart for part of that ride for the 427 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: final four in one, and of course they destroyed Duke 428 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: by thirty and ninety. Bobby Hurley was sick, but still, 429 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: I mean, Vegas just blew them out of the building 430 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: in Denver, and so people thought a similar thing would 431 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: happen this time around. Duke was a little bit of 432 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: a different team with Grant Hill very much a different team. 433 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: That changed things for for Mike. But Titanian on the 434 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: plane said to me, I'm worried about later I have 435 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: nobody to cover him. And I thought he was just 436 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: saying that as a an overdog coach who was just 437 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: throwing things out there. He knew I was going to 438 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: write that. So as it turned out, he was right. 439 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: They could not defend Laterner in that game. And if 440 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: you recall now, everybody remembers the Latner shot against Kentucky 441 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: and ninety two is probably the greatest shot in college 442 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: basketball history, but the most important shot in Duke history 443 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: was made by Bobby Hurley in that Vegas semi semifinal. 444 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,959 Speaker 1: Duke was down five late two minutes to go, Hurly 445 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: stepped into a three and made it, and that changed 446 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: the whole field of that game. And if Duke loses 447 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: that game. Who knows what happens to that program, but 448 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: they win it. Bobby makes that three. They go on 449 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: to beat Kansas, and then, of course the following year, 450 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: you have the Latener shot in the Elite eight. You 451 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: have Showsky beating bot Night in the Final four, and 452 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: that really started. That was the beginning of the end 453 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: of their relationship. And then Duke beats the Fab five 454 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: in the National Championship game. Yeah. Crazy, those those are 455 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: the days. You know, it's not to sound like an 456 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: old guy. You go look at those games on YouTube 457 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: and they're amazing. Um I do want to ask j. J. 458 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: Reddick has like some sort of video streaming thing or podcast, 459 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: and he had Jason Tatum on and they told the 460 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: story about Coach K. Obviously they were telling many stories, 461 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: and you know, Coach K saying some really tough stuff 462 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: to players. But this happens all the time. I am curious, 463 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: how did when you reach out to players such as 464 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: a Latener. I'm sure they had great memories of winning 465 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: a lot, but at the same time, Coach K can 466 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: be extremely rough with some of these players and verbally. 467 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: At least one player told me there are a lot 468 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: of confrontations where you were one step away from a 469 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: punch in the face. Either we were going to punch 470 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: him in the face or he was going to punch 471 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: us in the face. That the conferencea would get that heated. 472 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: I remember Reggie Love was a player at Duke and 473 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: he became an aid to President Obama. Later on, he 474 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: told me he witnessed a confrontation in the locker room 475 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: between Coach k And and Jay Williams that was so 476 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: awkward and intense it reminded him of an argument he 477 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: witnessed that Reagan National Airport on the tarmac between Hillary 478 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: and then candidate Barack Obama and and so, I mean, 479 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: things in that program got got ugly, and and Coach 480 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: k would get in your face. He is the most 481 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: profane coach I think I've ever been around. And I 482 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: sat behind him for the first time Jason in ninety 483 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: nine in the Meadowlands in the sweet sixteen game against 484 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: Steve Alford and Southwest Missouri State, and for two hours 485 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes it was extreme profanity and occur. So 486 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't morally offended, but I was entertained. I just 487 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: couldn't believe the profanity that came out of his mouth 488 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: directed at his assistance, his players, the refs. I mean, 489 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: it was. It was unbelievable, and so that's a surprise 490 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: to most people the first time they sit near the 491 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: duke bench. I didn't know was that bad. Two straight 492 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: hours of stuff. It was extreme. And I think he's 493 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: calmed down a little bit now. He's seventy five now, 494 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 1: so I don't know in the last five years that's 495 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: been the case. But in his prime he let it 496 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: ripped and it was. It was rough. So when he 497 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: listen the difference between him and Bob Knight, Bob Knight, 498 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: you would see it was more conspicuous. He threw a 499 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: chair in the middle of the game. The player at 500 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: Army told me when Coach k was there, he threw 501 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: a chair in practice when nobody could see it. Bobby 502 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: Night would do it on national TV. So Ka was 503 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: pretty good about picking his spots. It didn't seem like 504 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: on camera often he got caught absolutely berating a player, 505 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: But in practice, man, he he got in your face 506 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: and said some pretty degrading things at times. That's like 507 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: an old school thing, right, Bob Knight, remember Cheney back 508 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: in the day at temple. A lot of these guys 509 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: get Tarkanian. But I'm wondering, do you think that kind 510 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: of thing we're now does it work as well with 511 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: these young players? No way. I think that players today, 512 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: and it's a generational thing. It's not just athletes, it's kids. 513 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna sound like the fifty seven year old 514 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: guy that I am, but they're just more sensitive today. 515 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: You have to you know, back in the day, you 516 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: when you braided a kid, you still had to know 517 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: at some point you have to put your arm around 518 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: that player and and remind that player we're in this together. Yeah, 519 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 1: I just destroyed you, but we're on the same team. 520 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: These days, you have to put that arm around players 521 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: a lot more than you did back then. And and 522 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: if you're going to offer criticism, it better be surrounded 523 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: by positive reinforcement so or else it's it's not going 524 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: to work now. Listen, Coach k had to adapt to 525 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: Lebron and Kobe and company at the Olympics. Obviously he 526 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: couldn't destroy those guys verbally. They would have laughed at him. 527 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 1: So he did. He changed and he didn't scream at 528 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: those guys, and he came back from that experience, particularly 529 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: in Beijing, and O eight a more player friendly coach. 530 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: According to the Duke players I talked to interesting, um, 531 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: I wonder he never went to the NBA. Do you 532 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: think part of it is the Nick Saban idea? Hey man, 533 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: I know where all my guys are all the time 534 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: on campus. I am total control. I can say what 535 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: I want. It's my ship. I can't control these millionaire athletes. 536 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: And Nick Saban goes to the Dolphins and kind of flopped. 537 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: Do you think I'm sure there's plenty of Coach K 538 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: NBA talking there, but do you think that's probably the 539 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: primary reason why. I don't know if it's the primary 540 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: reason why. I think it always comes down to winning. 541 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: With coach K and at Duke, you have more control 542 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: over winning than you would in the NBA. Right Let's 543 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: say you win an NBA title, you get penalized right away, 544 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: you're drafting last in the first round. In college, you 545 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: win a national title more high school, all Americans want 546 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: to play for you, So you get rewarded in college 547 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: for winning. You get penalized in the NBA for for winning. 548 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: And that's the way pro sports works. Because of parody 549 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: and trying to give teams a chance and breaking it 550 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: up and not having dynasty's. Although I like dynasty's, I've 551 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: never quite understood that, But so I I think it 552 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: was more about if I go to the n b 553 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: A with the cap and free agency and player movement 554 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: and drafting last, if we have a great season or 555 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: close to last, and how about I stay here and 556 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: hope I get the Olympic job someday and coach the NBA. 557 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: So you got the best of both worlds. He stayed 558 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: at Duke controlled winning and losing a little bit more 559 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: or a lot more than he would in the NBA, 560 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: and coach the greatest NBA players in the world to 561 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: three Olympic gold medals. Um, you know, I gotta ask. 562 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: One of the most famous columns I ever read on 563 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: Coach K was by a guy we both know woach 564 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: when he was at Yahoo, and I reread that before 565 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: we spoke here. And you know, I don't want to 566 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: say historically the media has been extremely friendly to Coach K. 567 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: But you know, Durham kind of a small town. He's 568 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: running the show. You gotta be nice with Coach kor 569 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: you gotta cut off access. Don't do you think the 570 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: media has been a little too friendly with him. It 571 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: sounds like your book offers some balance, which we really 572 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: need out here. Yeah, I think so it's possible as case, 573 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: and maybe that's the case. And just covering college sports 574 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: in these towns where you don't have professional teams, it's 575 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: not like covering St. John's in New York, where the 576 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: mentality is is completely different. And really a St. John's 577 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: coach and players often get covered like like the pros 578 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: because you're in a pro town. And so I think 579 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: when you're not in a pro town and the college 580 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: team is the only game in town, and it changes 581 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: the dynamic between the coach, particularly a historically successful one 582 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: like Mike Schowski, and those around him who are covering him, 583 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: I think without question. So I think what I wanted 584 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: to do in this book was offer a balanced account, 585 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: a fair account, provide the negatives and certainly the positive. 586 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: A lot of positives in this book, but I was 587 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: never going to shy away from the negatives. And I 588 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: told Duke that, and I told them exactly what I 589 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: was going to write, because I wanted to see if 590 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: I could draw Mike out and comment, and he didn't 591 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: do it. But there were no surprises. They knew I 592 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: was right. They knew that I knew about the Pinehurst 593 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: incident that ended the Bob Knight relationship. They had very 594 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: good reason to know that. I that I found that 595 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: the university offered the coaching job to Tommy Americer first, 596 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: and that coach k ultimately effectively blocked that and and 597 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: got Shire in there. So so they were And the 598 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: n c A issues I addressed in the book I 599 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: addressed with Duke before publication. So I think that's important 600 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: as well, to give your subject the opportunity to comment, 601 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: and particularly when it's something that's either a negative or 602 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: a perceived negative. I was going to wrap up on 603 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: the the America thing, but one other question. But one 604 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: of my favorite college basketball announcers ever has been Billy Packer, 605 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: who is much maligned. You know, the social media guys 606 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: hate and they tried to run him out. Maybe they did, um, 607 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: I haven't heard from him anywhere in years. Was he 608 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: part of the book and how how was he he 609 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: was not part of the book, I have to say, Jason, 610 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: it was it was fun to go back and entertaining 611 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: to listen to him do games. I always loved listening 612 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: to him as an analyst, and so as I watched 613 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: old Duke National Championship in final four games to hear 614 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: his voice, it was it was great, it was entertaining. 615 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: And I did not talk to him for this book, 616 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: and I think college basketball misses him. He's one of 617 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: those figures that brought the game, made it alive and 618 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: made it feel big. And so when you talk about 619 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: the figures who have left the games, say in the 620 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: last ten, fifteen years and now coach k which is 621 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: almost a death blow, not a death blow, but just 622 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: a it's a it's a pretty big punch to the gut. 623 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: And I think the sport isn't a little bit of trouble. 624 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: I do. There's so much movement now, player movement, which 625 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: I was for, but it's it's hard to keep tracking. 626 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: There's so many games on so many different channels that 627 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: really the regular season has become kind of irrelevant. Some 628 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: of these leagues where seven teams make the n c 629 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: A tournament, so it's it could be a tough watch. Yeah, 630 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: and like they're starting these like overtime leagues, so the 631 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: high school kids have options. Uh, it's just it's wild. Anyways, 632 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: I'll wrap up on the America thing, which was absolutely 633 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: mind blowing. And um, I'm personally surprised that Duke didn't say, fine, fine, 634 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: coach Cab will talk to you now. Just leave that 635 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: part out of the book or or something. Try to 636 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: make some kind of trade. But this is a bit 637 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: of a stunner to hear they offered Amaker and Coach 638 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: Case didn't know, I want Shire. Yeah, that's that's what happened. 639 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: And listen, Tommy Amaker. They did have a conversation and 640 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: Coach k laid out his reasons, why if you come, 641 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: you'd be a successor in waiting for a year. I'd 642 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: have to demote somebody from my staff. I just promoted 643 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: in Nolan Smith from director of basketball operations, so I'd 644 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: have to demote him. Then you've got the weird dynamic 645 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: with Shire on the same staff, and I really don't 646 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: think that's good for Duke basketball. Tommy Amaker could have said, sorry, 647 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: you feel that way, coach, but I'll see you in 648 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: two weeks. He could have done that and he would 649 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: be the head coach of Duke right now, but he 650 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: decided that to go there without his without his mentors blessing, 651 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: would be a mistake. Could be uncomfortable. He's got a 652 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: great life, good job obviously at Harvard. His wife's got 653 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: a really good job there, and he decided to stay. 654 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: But it was a fascinating thing the way that played out. 655 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: Showski wanted John Shire in there because he molded him. 656 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 1: He's young and coach k with Shire in place, would 657 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: have a lot more influence and control over that program 658 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: in retirement than he would have with a guy in 659 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: his mid fifties like America, who has been a Division 660 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: one head coach at three different places right right, So 661 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: he can kind of pull the strings from behind the 662 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: scenes because Shires his guy and he got him in there. 663 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: I think Shire is strong enough to to lead his program, 664 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: but he Mike's keeping his office, and Mike got him 665 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: that job, and so clearly he's going to listen to 666 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: him and he's going to take his advice. And it 667 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: will be esting to see where that relationship goes in three, 668 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: four or five years. So you've covered sports for decades. 669 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: This is not a This cannot possibly be a good 670 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: look for goods game. I don't think so. But he's 671 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: not a man with a lot of hobbies. He doesn't 672 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: god off, he's he gardens a little bit. He does 673 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: a little gardening, and he's not a big reader. He's 674 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: not like Roy Williams. And he's on the golf course 675 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: a lot. So I think he's going to be involved 676 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: in that program. He's going to be present and and 677 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: John Shire will feel his presence. Yeah, geez al right, 678 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: Ian O'Connor, great stuff. The book Coach k The Rise 679 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: and Reign of Mike Shasky out this week. Ian Hey, 680 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 1: thanks a lot. Congrats on the book and all your success. 681 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: Man Hey, it's my pleasure. Jason, congrats on all your success.