WEBVTT - Let’s Have Accountability...For a Change.  Lanhee Chen Talks to A&G

0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Instead of our regularly scheduled Clips of the Week, which

0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.040
<v Speaker 1>will happen in just a few minutes. We're looking forward

0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.520
<v Speaker 1>to talking to ln Hitchen, David and Diane Stephy, fellow

0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.440
<v Speaker 1>in American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, the

0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:20.120
<v Speaker 1>director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University, frequent commentator

0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:25.480
<v Speaker 1>on CNN, and rumored to be running for high office.

0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Mr Chen, how are you, sir? Hey, Joe. Good to

0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.120
<v Speaker 1>do with you this morning. Great, It's always a pleasure

0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.920
<v Speaker 1>to talk. So listen, we've kind of been bugging you

0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.360
<v Speaker 1>to run for office because we think your ideas are

0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.000
<v Speaker 1>sound and productive. Are you actually can we talk about this?

0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Are you thinking you're running for office in cal Unicornia?

0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I am. I am considering it seriously because you know,

0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:50.800
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about a lot of these problems, Joe. I mean,

0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.680
<v Speaker 1>I think what it comes down to is we've got

0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.960
<v Speaker 1>some basic, very basic sort of blocking and tackling issues

0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.960
<v Speaker 1>that we need to handle in California. We just don't

0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.360
<v Speaker 1>seemed to be doing the basic things right. And I

0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.760
<v Speaker 1>think bringing a sort of common sense, ideas based approach

0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:08.920
<v Speaker 1>is kind of what we need. And that's why I'm

0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:10.920
<v Speaker 1>looking at an office like controller, which you know, I

0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.120
<v Speaker 1>people don't really think very much about it, maybe no

0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.560
<v Speaker 1>very much about but has a tremendous opportunity to change

0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.080
<v Speaker 1>things for the better. And that's why I'm looking at it. Well,

0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.240
<v Speaker 1>let's first of all talk about what the controller does.

0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.920
<v Speaker 1>What do they do well? The controllers actually the think

0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.040
<v Speaker 1>of it as a chief financial officer for the state

0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.919
<v Speaker 1>of California, the person who is in charge of overseeing

0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.440
<v Speaker 1>the finances, how we're spending the state's money, accounting for

0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.440
<v Speaker 1>all of that, making sure that when politicians make promises,

0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.880
<v Speaker 1>they're held accountable for it. And unfortunately, if you look

0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.560
<v Speaker 1>back over the last I don't know, twenty years, the

0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.120
<v Speaker 1>controller really hasn't done any of that, you know, really

0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.880
<v Speaker 1>hasn't held anybody responsible for anything. You know, We've got

0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.000
<v Speaker 1>all of these different crises in our state, all these

0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.960
<v Speaker 1>different things that are going on, and the controller probably

0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.400
<v Speaker 1>could have made things better along the way many times

0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.280
<v Speaker 1>and simply didn't. So, you know, I just take one

0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.520
<v Speaker 1>basic example where there was a report that last year

0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.720
<v Speaker 1>the controller was responsible for signing off on over three

0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.720
<v Speaker 1>hundred billion dollars spending billion with a B but could

0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.960
<v Speaker 1>not produce a line item list of where all that

0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.760
<v Speaker 1>money went. Now, that's right, and I understand the other

0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.600
<v Speaker 1>forty nine states were able to. It's a very basic thing, right, Joe.

0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:25.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you think about your family, you think about

0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.680
<v Speaker 1>any business, and it's like if if if you went

0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.919
<v Speaker 1>out and said, you know, we spent a bunch of money,

0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.480
<v Speaker 1>I actually don't know where we spent it. First of all,

0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.320
<v Speaker 1>if you were a business owner, you'd be in jail.

0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.880
<v Speaker 1>If if you were a family trying to budget that way,

0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.079
<v Speaker 1>you'd be bankrupt. And yet we continue to allow the

0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.160
<v Speaker 1>state to do these sorts of things, and nobody wants

0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:45.760
<v Speaker 1>to do anything about it. So I think it's time

0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:47.760
<v Speaker 1>for voters to say, you know what, enough is enough,

0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.320
<v Speaker 1>and let's let's switch things up and have accountability for

0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.400
<v Speaker 1>a change. Well, I would absolutely love to see that.

0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the examples of scandal and wastefulness are legion

0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.840
<v Speaker 1>from the defrauding of the Apartment of Unemployment. That's not

0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.920
<v Speaker 1>the proper name, but that's what it is. Thirty perhaps

0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.320
<v Speaker 1>forty billion dollars to the utter obscenity that is the

0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.440
<v Speaker 1>regular train. I won't call it a bullet train because

0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not going to be a bullet train. It's the

0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.800
<v Speaker 1>suburbs of Fresno to suburbs of Bakersfield, sixty billion dollar

0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.720
<v Speaker 1>train nobody wants. My concern is, and you can address

0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.480
<v Speaker 1>those if you want, but my concern is California voters

0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.160
<v Speaker 1>are so brutally unaware of the way the states being

0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.520
<v Speaker 1>run that that you can't get their attention. Well, frankly,

0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 1>it's it's the job of candidates, and if I become

0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.400
<v Speaker 1>a candidate, I'm gonna spend every day trying to help

0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.200
<v Speaker 1>California voters understand these are the basic issues that we

0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.640
<v Speaker 1>need to get fixed. And this is not a partisan thing, Joe.

0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, I get a lot of questions a well,

0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're you're well known to be somebody who's

0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.760
<v Speaker 1>right of center, who's got views about fiscal conservatism. How's

0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.040
<v Speaker 1>that going to play in California. I have not talked

0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to a single voter, whether they're liberal or conservative or

0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.960
<v Speaker 1>in the middle, who looks at something like you've referred

0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.920
<v Speaker 1>to the fraud in the unemployment insurance system thirty billion

0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.920
<v Speaker 1>dollars at least a fraud and by the way, bigger

0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.320
<v Speaker 1>than Bernie made off, Bigger than all sorts of different

0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.920
<v Speaker 1>frauds that we've seen, probably the biggest fraud at the

0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.520
<v Speaker 1>governmental level, at the state governmental level and the history

0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.240
<v Speaker 1>of our country. Nobody looks at it and says, yeah,

0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.000
<v Speaker 1>I'd like that to continue. You know. Nobody looks at

0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.760
<v Speaker 1>the challenges with the choo Choo train that that you've

0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.320
<v Speaker 1>talked about, where there's all these promises made about the spending,

0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.240
<v Speaker 1>creating jobs, creating a train. We still have a train

0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.960
<v Speaker 1>to nowhere. I've talked to no California who thinks, hey,

0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.760
<v Speaker 1>that's a great idea, let's continue that. So I think

0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.080
<v Speaker 1>part of the challenge Jo, You're right is that people

0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:39.960
<v Speaker 1>are really busy with their lives, and they should be.

0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.960
<v Speaker 1>But part of the job of public officials is to

0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.000
<v Speaker 1>raise the attention and the awareness on these issues and

0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:47.680
<v Speaker 1>talk about them and say how can we fix them,

0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.080
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to continuing to cover them up and just

0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:54.440
<v Speaker 1>perpetuating the Sacramento monopoly that exists right now. Amen to that.

0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.120
<v Speaker 1>We're talking to Alan hi Chen, who Politico listed twice

0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.839
<v Speaker 1>on their annual list of Thinkers, do or and visionaries

0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.040
<v Speaker 1>the top fifty in American politics. Uh thinking about running

0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.480
<v Speaker 1>for the controller gig in California, which is essentially, as

0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.000
<v Speaker 1>he told us, the CFO of California. You know, you're

0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.200
<v Speaker 1>also an educator, and as an educator, i'd love to

0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.480
<v Speaker 1>have your perspective on the story we've been talking about

0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.880
<v Speaker 1>the last couple of days. This is high school in

0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:24.080
<v Speaker 1>northern California where a passer by, a student passed by

0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.680
<v Speaker 1>a classroom in the hallway, glanced in saw Nazi flag,

0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.000
<v Speaker 1>went to the administration said I'm disturbed by that, and

0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:35.159
<v Speaker 1>they have suspended the teacher and launched a full investigation.

0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.919
<v Speaker 1>And and now everybody's going to pieces and afraid to

0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.400
<v Speaker 1>talk and the rest of it. What's happening in education

0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.800
<v Speaker 1>these days? What the hell is that? Well, you know,

0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.800
<v Speaker 1>and I'm sorry that he was teaching World War two,

0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:55.880
<v Speaker 1>specifically a senior seminar on propaganda and symbols. Yeah. Well,

0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.240
<v Speaker 1>one of the things in general about our our system

0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.600
<v Speaker 1>of education is that one of the I don't know,

0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.560
<v Speaker 1>basic hallmarks of of education in the classroom is the

0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:11.040
<v Speaker 1>ability of educators to um to to essentially teach based

0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:15.320
<v Speaker 1>on the things that they believe are our best for

0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.640
<v Speaker 1>the students in their classrooms. And we have this principle

0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.320
<v Speaker 1>of local control of education, which is also very important

0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.080
<v Speaker 1>and and and so one of the challenges we have

0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.359
<v Speaker 1>is this concept of academic freedom, which was supposed to

0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.440
<v Speaker 1>be core and central, particularly at the university level. I mean,

0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.320
<v Speaker 1>that's the level I'm familiar with. It's where I where

0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.360
<v Speaker 1>I teach. And I'll just say that the measure of

0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.720
<v Speaker 1>academic freedom that we see in the classroom at the

0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.080
<v Speaker 1>university level, uh, it just isn't the same as it

0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:42.719
<v Speaker 1>used to be. You used to be you could present

0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.160
<v Speaker 1>lots of different alternate points of view and say, look,

0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, you, as a student get to choose. And

0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.200
<v Speaker 1>now the idea that you would present certain points of

0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.960
<v Speaker 1>view is for vote. You know, you you you, you

0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.520
<v Speaker 1>will be under attack unless you present a particular point

0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.520
<v Speaker 1>of view, a particular way of thinking about the world.

0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's not academic freedom. And by the way, that's

0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.440
<v Speaker 1>not how we strengthen the minds of young people, but

0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.240
<v Speaker 1>the way we strengthen the minds of young people in

0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.840
<v Speaker 1>our educational systems to say, well, here's all sorts of ideas.

0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.200
<v Speaker 1>You figure out which ideas you believe in, and you

0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.480
<v Speaker 1>a spouse and defend those ideas. So I'm a little

0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:19.120
<v Speaker 1>worried that the concept of academic freedom is going away,

0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.760
<v Speaker 1>and that's something that's been degraded for for many many

0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:25.560
<v Speaker 1>years now. Well, and what's truly frightening is the enforcement

0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.840
<v Speaker 1>mechanism for that is a bunch of a bunch of

0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.720
<v Speaker 1>students who we have taught to have pathologies. We've given

0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.080
<v Speaker 1>them pathologies, like the idea that if they are challenged

0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.200
<v Speaker 1>or here's something they don't like, that's an offense, they've

0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.720
<v Speaker 1>been aggrieved, there should be uh, some sort of repercussion

0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:45.680
<v Speaker 1>for that, which is a bizarre idea. Yeah. I mean again,

0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.040
<v Speaker 1>this gets back to, you know, do we punish people

0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.320
<v Speaker 1>for expressing different points of view? Uh? You know, do

0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.480
<v Speaker 1>we do we punish educators? Do we punish students who

0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.720
<v Speaker 1>want to express different points of view? Now, of course,

0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.760
<v Speaker 1>there are certain points of view that are arguably be

0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.800
<v Speaker 1>on the bounds of uh, you know, civil and normal conversation,

0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.040
<v Speaker 1>and we can have a conversation about how you deal

0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.440
<v Speaker 1>with those things. But fundamentally, the concept of academic freedom

0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.840
<v Speaker 1>means that in a marketplace of ideas, the bad ideas

0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.160
<v Speaker 1>get defeated, the good ideas rise to the top. And

0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.400
<v Speaker 1>that's the kind of system we want because it reflects

0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.440
<v Speaker 1>what happens in American society. You know, we are a

0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.560
<v Speaker 1>pluralistic place. People are allowed to express different points of view,

0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.160
<v Speaker 1>and you know that there are very specific requirements the constitutions.

0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.440
<v Speaker 1>That's about freedom of speech, and we need to be

0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.880
<v Speaker 1>serious about that. And and that extends to the classroom.

0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.199
<v Speaker 1>We want to have in the classroom freedom of thought,

0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.559
<v Speaker 1>freedom of expression, and we allow people to debate reasonable ideas.

0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.160
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's something unfortunately you just see less

0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.840
<v Speaker 1>on less of these days. Lyne Channel the Hoover Institution

0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.120
<v Speaker 1>and Stanford University on the line. In a couple of

0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.400
<v Speaker 1>minutes we have left. Let's do a little compare and

0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.640
<v Speaker 1>contrast between the challenges the divide, if you will, in

0:08:55.720 --> 0:09:00.480
<v Speaker 1>the GOP, the Trumpers and the no More Trump and

0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.280
<v Speaker 1>the battle going on in the Democratic Party between the

0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Wolke crowd is personified by the squad and the mainstream Democrats.

0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.079
<v Speaker 1>Who's got the bigger challenge or how do you see

0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.760
<v Speaker 1>those two divides? Well, first of all, you're right, Joe,

0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.719
<v Speaker 1>to talk about the divide on both sides of the

0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.240
<v Speaker 1>political spectrum. There's a tendency to focus on gosh, look

0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.640
<v Speaker 1>at the Civil War quote unquote in the Republican Party.

0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.199
<v Speaker 1>And the point I make is, look, both sides have

0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.439
<v Speaker 1>these divisions that are driving, uh, you know, the politics

0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.440
<v Speaker 1>of both sides, unfortunately towards towards what I think are

0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.640
<v Speaker 1>are more extreme positions on the on the left and

0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.120
<v Speaker 1>certainly some of that on the right. Um. My own

0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.440
<v Speaker 1>view on what's happening amongst conservatives and the Republican Party

0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.160
<v Speaker 1>is I think we ought to be focused on welcoming

0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:48.200
<v Speaker 1>as many people as we can into the conservative movement

0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.800
<v Speaker 1>into the Republican Party. We should be creating a bigger tent,

0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.120
<v Speaker 1>not a smaller one. And so what I would love

0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.439
<v Speaker 1>to see is instead of talking about how do we

0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.719
<v Speaker 1>make the party better by subtraction or how do we

0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.439
<v Speaker 1>make the movement better by something action, I think we

0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.080
<v Speaker 1>should talk about how do we make it better by addition? Uh?

0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:04.880
<v Speaker 1>And I don't see that on the left, by the way,

0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I think there is a very strong desire amongst many

0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.880
<v Speaker 1>on the left to cancel voices that are considered more

0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.120
<v Speaker 1>reasonable or more moderate. And I'd hate to see the

0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.280
<v Speaker 1>same thing happen on the political right as well. Be

0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.880
<v Speaker 1>here here, I think Hispanic America is going to be

0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.840
<v Speaker 1>a force for conservatism within twenty years personally and Asian

0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Americans too, by the way I think, I think, I

0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.520
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of uh, you know, racial and ethnic

0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.000
<v Speaker 1>minorities in this country. They want to be able to

0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.719
<v Speaker 1>maximize their freedom, to increase their opportunity and be in

0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.280
<v Speaker 1>a society where you know, they can raise their families

0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.920
<v Speaker 1>peacefully and with the knowledge that we have the rule

0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.360
<v Speaker 1>of law. And those are all basic principles. By the

0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.240
<v Speaker 1>way that I know, I mean certainly many conservatives I

0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.920
<v Speaker 1>know a spouse, and and so I think making the

0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.040
<v Speaker 1>case in that way, Joe is part of the challenge,

0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's something that I you know, take very seriously.

0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.360
<v Speaker 1>If you do decide to run for office, let me

0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.640
<v Speaker 1>know the maximum contribution. I'll give you a triple that. Okay, well, Michael,

0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.719
<v Speaker 1>let it that out when this hairs. Yeah, no, no, no,

0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.240
<v Speaker 1>I I appreciate that. Joe and Lani Chandens the David

0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and Diane Stephie Fellow in American Public Policy Studies at

0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.000
<v Speaker 1>the Hoover Institution, Director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University. Lani,

0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.880
<v Speaker 1>great to talk to you, have a great week. Thank

0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.160
<v Speaker 1>you and