1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 2: Welcome to our Bloomberg TV and radio audiences around the world. 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: A recurring theme of recent tech m and a has 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 2: been deals to bring in talent in so called aquahiers. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: The Federal Trade Commission is taking notice. One member of 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: the FTC worn Thursday that these quote creative deal structures 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: could raise antitrust concerns. Let's discuss and delighted to welcome 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: Andrew Ferguson, Chairman of the FTC, to the program. We 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: cover the topic of aquahiers on Bloomberg Tech regularly. It 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: was a mainstay story in twenty twenty five. When does 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: a talent deal stop being a talent deal and become 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: more than that, become a merger? What are the rules 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: based approach that the FTC would take chairmen to look 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: at that. 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we are examining. 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 3: Looks have been around, especially in the sort of startup 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: founder space, for a long time, and they've gotten bigger 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 3: basically in the last ADMIN and a lot of people 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 3: were of the view that these things were sort of 20 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: being constructed in these big deals to try to escape 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 3: you know, Hart Scott Rodino Review, which is pre merger 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 3: anti trust review in the United States because the Biden 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 3: administration was trying to block all deals, and I think 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: generally they were that isn't you know, necessary anymore. 25 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: We don't need. 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: Clever workarounds for around anti trust review anymore because at 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 3: the FTC under the Trump administration, you get a fair shake. 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm not saying your deal will go through. 29 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 3: I've sued to block several deals this year, and I've 30 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 3: won those cases. But if your deal's not illegal, we 31 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 3: get out of the way and sort of let the 32 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: market take care of things. So we are beginning to 33 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 3: examine that the HSR Act has a provision that says 34 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 3: you're not allowed to structure deals in order to escape 35 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: pre merger review, and so we are beginning to examine 36 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 3: the exactly to make sure that they aren't an attempt to. 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: Get around HSR review. 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 3: But the message I want to send sort of Silicon 39 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: Valley and to the M and A infrastructure generally is 40 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 3: you don't need to structure deals as a clever, you know, 41 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 3: attempt to get around pre merger review. You'll get a 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: fair shake at the FTC. Deal may not go through, 43 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: but if your deal is legal, I will get out 44 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: of your way very quickly, and if it's not, I'll 45 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: take you to court and I'll fight to win there. 46 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 3: We're not going to let the process be the punishment anymore. 47 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: But Jem, you know it is important to us to 48 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: us to. 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 3: Make sure that people aren't going to use clever deal 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 3: structures to get around pre merger review. 51 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: The language of clever or creative deal structures that I 52 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: cited at the beginning of our conversation was from your 53 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: colleague and fellow Commissioner Mark made Or Right, who is 54 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: speaking at a conference in California yesterday. I think what 55 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 2: the industry hopes to understand from you is what the 56 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: threshold is, or what the set of rules. 57 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: Would be where a hiring. 58 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: Proposal situation should be reported to antitrust authorities. It should 59 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: be Yeah, as simple as that. It should be by 60 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: right reported. 61 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 62 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: And you know, we are beginning to examine how these 63 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 3: deals work. Aqu higher deal structures vary from deal to deal, 64 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: and so there wouldn't necessarily be sort of a one 65 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: size fits all rule. But we are beginning to examine 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: these big aqui higher deals that raise a lot of 67 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 3: attention so that we can understand when an aqui higher 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 3: is in fact an acquisition that might be covered by 69 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: the pre merger review laws and when it's not, and 70 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: we need to understand them before we're sort of out 71 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: there telling people what the rules are. But this is 72 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: you're right, this has become a big enough deal that 73 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: we are beginning to look very closely at how these 74 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 3: things work, including you know, determining whether we need to 75 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 3: promulgate additional guidance here in the coming months about how 76 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: we understand these acquires. 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: Is there a fact that that matters is more to you, 78 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: you know, the number of employees hired, or putting a 79 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: value on the intellectual capital or the competitive advantage that 80 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: such a transaction would give the aquira. 81 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: So the value that matters for HSR is set by 82 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 3: the statute. 83 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: That's not really here or there. 84 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: But the HSR Act applies to deals where assets or 85 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 3: stock are being purchased, and that's what triggers HSR review. 86 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: And so what we need to understand, which is why 87 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 3: we're beginning to examine this question now, is when does 88 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: an acqui hier you know, involve the sale of the 89 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 3: acquisition of assets or stock in a way that would 90 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: trigger the statute. Look at the end of the day, 91 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: I'm a lawyer and a law enforcer, and I enforced statutes, 92 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 3: and those statutes have texts, and so it's my job 93 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: to understand whether things happening in the marketplace trigger the 94 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 3: text that Congress has actually passed for us. 95 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: But that's what we're looking at. 96 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: We're not trying to set sort of we wouldn't be 97 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 3: setting like aqui hier rules. Generally, we would be looking 98 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: at deals and trying to understand, you know, does this 99 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: in fact involve the acquisition or sale of assets or 100 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 3: stock and are is anything being structured as an attempt 101 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 3: to circumvent review. But you know, I'm not here to 102 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 3: say this is what the rules are. There will be 103 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: you know, hard and fast, clear rules. There aren't even 104 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: for the ordinary deals. We've got the you know, the 105 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: HSR Act and the HSR rules. But deal structure is 106 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: even an ordinary in then a very widely, and so 107 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: we have to apply the text that Congress actually wrote 108 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 3: to specific deals. But aqui hiers have become frequent enough 109 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 3: and large enough that we are beginning to look at 110 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: the appropriate way to apply the law that Congress actually 111 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 3: adopted to aqui hires. 112 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: I don't It's not my job. 113 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 3: As an enforcer to sort of fit square pegs into 114 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: round holes. But it is my job to make sure 115 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 3: that the will of Congress, which is the will of 116 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 3: the people at the end of the day, is being followed. 117 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 3: And that's what we're here to try to do. We're 118 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 3: trying to figure out how that applies in the case 119 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: of acquay hires. 120 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: CHAM and how common is this in the field of 121 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 2: oftficial intelligence or how often is this particular scenario arising 122 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: and crossing your desk from the AI industry. 123 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: We've seen a couple in the last twelve months. 124 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: My understanding is that the act we hire sort of structure, 125 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: if you want to call it that, where you know, 126 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 3: a firm acquires a lot of the talent and another 127 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: firm is pretty old. Has been going on for a 128 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 3: long time, but it often involves very small firms, and 129 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: I think the reason that a lot of people are 130 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 3: starting to notice it is because now it involves much 131 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 3: larger firms and the sort of price being attached to 132 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: obtaining the talent into licensing IP is in the billions. 133 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 3: So I've definitely seen a couple in the AI space 134 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 3: this year, which is why has attracted a lot of 135 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 3: the attention, and it's why we're beginning to try to 136 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: examine how are these working and how does the law 137 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: that Congress passed governing pre merger review actually apply here 138 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: as well as the provision in the pre merger review 139 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 3: law that says you can't structure a deal in order 140 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: to try to escape HSR review. So that is what 141 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: we are trying to understand now. But certainly, I mean 142 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 3: you are reported on them. You can read them about 143 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: them on the Wall Street Journal. It's definitely true that 144 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: there have been a couple of these big ones in 145 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: the AI area. 146 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: You're alive with us on Bloomberg Television, Bloomberg Radar around 147 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: the world. Were speaking to Andrew Ferguson, Chairman of the FTC. 148 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: I think the biggest case study of late which just 149 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: to give an example of the structure, is Nvidio and 150 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: GROC Because you know what in Vidia CEO Jen Mung 151 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: told me a couple of weeks ago is they hired 152 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: about four hundred engineers, but it also included the licensing 153 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: of the core technology at a twenty billion dollar value. 154 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: But over a set time horizon, Grock exists as a 155 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: company still but with a focus on one of its 156 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: business lines, that hiring and licensing technology fullmats. Is there 157 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 2: anything specific that Shaman? 158 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can't talk about specific deals or specific 159 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: potential investigations. As a law enforcer, you know, I have 160 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: to maintain a lot of confidentiality about the work of 161 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: the commission. But I mean, you know that particular structure 162 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: of the aquahier was different from example, from the one 163 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 3: that Meta conducted earlier in the year. These things vary 164 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: pretty wildly. The terms of the aile I'm sorry of 165 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: the software and IP licensing can vary, the number of 166 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 3: employees obtained in the transaction can vary. So we're trying 167 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 3: to understand these things, first of all, because the last 168 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 3: thing I want to do is sort of blindly charge 169 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: ahead with a bunch of you know, sort of pre 170 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: determined assumptions and start trying to apply the law to 171 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: something we don't understand. But it is very important to me, 172 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: because it's very important to Congress that people not try 173 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: to come up with ways to attempt to get around 174 00:08:59,240 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 3: pre merger review. 175 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: And that's what we're looking at. And again, it's just 176 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: not necessary. 177 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: I get why people wanted to do this in the 178 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 3: previous administration, where the anti trust enforcers tended to use 179 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 3: the process as a way to block deals rather than 180 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: you know, sort of being a lot more honest about 181 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 3: it than taking people to court. But under the Trump administration, 182 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: we are either going to get out of your way 183 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 3: very quickly or we are going to take you to court. 184 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 3: We're not letting the process be the punishment, and so 185 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: people don't need to try to come up with ways 186 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: to get around HSR. 187 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: You will get a fair shake at the FTC. 188 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: Chevan, there's a lot of interest in the FTC and 189 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: consumer protection and what the FTC's remit is in the 190 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: domain of AI. 191 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: It's an example. 192 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: I know you won't comment on specific cases, but x 193 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: and Elon musk s XAI and Grock have been in 194 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 2: the news because of the use of the tool to 195 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: generate non consen sensual sexualized images. Does the FTC have 196 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: a role in regulating from a consumer protection standpoint that domain? 197 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the president. 198 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: Congress passed and the President signed in spring of last 199 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: year that Take It Down Act, which is seminal groundbreaking 200 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 3: legislation to protect people from artificially generated non consensual intimate images. 201 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 3: The criminal component of that law that the Department of 202 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 3: Justice enforces is already in effect. The part that we enforce, 203 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: where we have to compel platforms to take down these 204 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 3: images and then bring enforcement actions that they fail, will 205 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: take effect in the spring. 206 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: We are getting ready for that. 207 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 3: I have been meeting with the elite child protection prosecutors 208 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 3: and investigators at the Department of Homeland Security to make 209 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 3: sure that we're synced up on that mission. This is 210 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 3: relatively new to the FTC, and I want to make 211 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 3: sure we hit the ground running when the authority takes effect. 212 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: Right now, we are hiring. 213 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 3: Specialists, prosecutors, lawyers, investigators, and IT experts to enable us 214 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 3: the second that this thing takes effect to start bringing 215 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: enforcement actions wherever these things are happening. And I don't 216 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: care what kind of company you are, if you are 217 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: a platform, whether you're a legacy social media company a 218 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: burgeoning AI company, I don't care. If you are violating 219 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: to take a down Act, you are going to hear 220 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: from us, and we are going to be ready to 221 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: do it. This is incredibly important legislation. I'm really excited 222 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: that the FTC has a role in this. I lobby 223 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 3: Congress very heavily to make sure that we had enough 224 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: money to get this program off the ground when it 225 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 3: takes effect in the middle of this year. 226 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: You're getting that money and we will be ready, Chairman. 227 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: President Trump has nominated David McNeil to the Commission. Our 228 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: audience have asked me to ask you your thoughts on 229 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: that someone perhaps without antitrust experience, legal experience, the Commission experience, 230 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 2: and somebody, you know, frankly with high net wealth. 231 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: Your thoughts, please look. 232 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 3: I am generally of the view that Washington has too 233 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: many lawyers. I think it is great that the President 234 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: has decided to nominate someone who isn't a lawyer, who 235 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: doesn't sort of think in the pathways that lawyers always think. 236 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 3: I think it's great that the President has nominated. You know, 237 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 3: I've never met mister McNeil. I've talked to him a 238 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 3: little since the nomination. The man is a true American patriot. 239 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: He's created thousands of jobs in this country. He has 240 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 3: been one of the most outspoken proponents of manufacturing here 241 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 3: in America. That has been one of the President's principal 242 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: economic priorities is to make sure we make and build 243 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 3: things in America. 244 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: David McNeil has done that. 245 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: He has been successful in doing that, and I think 246 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 3: it's great that there is going to be sort of 247 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: someone with that perspective who isn't coming at this like 248 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 3: I am from fancy law schools with a long sort 249 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: of litigation. 250 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: And law enforcement background. 251 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: He's coming at it as a job creator, as a 252 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: wealth creator, and as one of the most outspoken proponents 253 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 3: of manufacturing in America that there is in this country. 254 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: You know, is it an unconventional pick, Yeah, of course 255 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 3: it is. But part of what has made President Trump 256 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: so successful is that he doesn't always think in the 257 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: conventions that governed DC. And I think that this is 258 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: a really really good idea to bring someone with mister 259 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 3: McNeil's perspective here to the Commission chairman. 260 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: The major concern to the consumer right now is affordability. 261 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: What is the TC able to do on pricing pressure, 262 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: bringing prices down? Addressing that consumer concern? 263 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's one of my main concerns too. 264 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: We're doing a lot on this front. On the merger 265 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 3: review front, my first two merger enforcement actions were in 266 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 3: the healthcare space. We just won one of those healthcare 267 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 3: enforcement actions last week and several months before, the judge 268 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 3: denied our injunction, but only because after I sued them, 269 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: they offered to divest the assets that were. 270 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: The problem, so that was a win for the Commission 271 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: as well. 272 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: Another merger enforcement action I brought is about industrial adhesives 273 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 3: that are used to build homes. We have a real 274 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: home building crisis in this country. Although under President Trump, 275 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 3: home sales went up last year for the first time 276 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 3: in a while, we still have a home affordability crisis 277 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 3: in this country. And I have focused intently on the 278 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: competition side, on making sure that we are active in 279 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 3: markets grocery, healthcare, homes to try to bring prices down 280 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 3: to consumers and to make sure that all Americans get 281 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: the advantages that come with vigorous competition. On the other side, 282 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: I sued ticket Master and a groundbreaking lawsuit charging them 283 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 3: with having basically inflated all the prices of tickets in 284 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 3: violation of multiple federal laws. Americans have been complaining justly 285 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: for a long time that it has become almost impossible 286 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 3: to take your family to a ballgame or to a 287 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: concert without having a fork over the value of a 288 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: mortgage payment to do it. We have been very active 289 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 3: in the ticketing space to make sure that those prices 290 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 3: are going to come down. We have been bringing actions 291 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: on the consumer protection side in the healthcare space. We've 292 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: also been bringing a lot of consumer protection cases and 293 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 3: competition cases to protect the value of wages again non 294 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 3: competes against job scams. 295 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: The FTC is a little agency. 296 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 3: Our budget is even half a billion dollars, but we 297 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 3: have returned literally billions of dollars of wrongfully taken money 298 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 3: just in the last year back in the pockets of 299 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 3: the American consumers. We are doing everything we can within 300 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 3: our little remit to try to bring down prices and 301 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 3: to make this country a more affordable place to live, 302 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 3: which is exactly what President Trump has been telling us 303 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 3: to do. 304 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Chairman. 305 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: Very quickly, Bloomberg's reported that the White House is considering 306 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 2: you for a DOJ fraud role. What would that entail 307 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: and legally would it be possible for you to take 308 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: on that role while remaining chair of the FTC. 309 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: I can tell you definitively, I'm not leaving the Federal 310 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 3: Trade Commission and I'm not going to the Department of Justice. 311 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 3: This is an important full time job that the President 312 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: entrusted me with to try to help the American people 313 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 3: that just voted in their tens of millions to make 314 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 3: Donald Trump president. That's what we have done. We've sent 315 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: billions of dollars wrongfully taken money back to Americans, and 316 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: I'm focused on fighting fraud and protecting competition right here 317 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 3: at the FTC. 318 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: Andrew Ferguson, the FTC Chairman, thank you for your time 319 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg Tech. Okay, coming up, Jermaina Alaman of 320 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: Prometeer joins us to discuss the future of banking within AI. 321 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: That's next. 322 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech.