WEBVTT - Mike Schur - Pt. 2 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.879 My name is Michael Shore. I was a writer for 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.760 the first four point two seasons and a producer on 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:26.360 the Office. Hi, everybody, Welcome to a new day, and 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.040 a new day brings a new episode of the Office 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:35.599 Deep Dive with me your host Brian baum Gartner. Now, 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.160 I'm thrilled to tell you that today I am bringing 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:42.320 back the incredible Mike Shure for part two of our conversation. 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.199 This is going to be a good one to remind you, 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.600 Mike was one of our original writers and producers on 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.760 the Office. He went on to co create Parks and 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.880 Wreck with Greg Daniels, as well as some other huge 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.360 TV shows of our time like Brooklyn, The Good Place, 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.360 just to name a few. Now, as I mentioned in 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.160 the last episode, which you should definitely check out if 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.280 you haven't already, Mike as a writer, as a producer, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.400 as an artist, he's had some insane achievements, and we're 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:17.479 gonna get into some of those. But more importantly, you're 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.959 going to get to hear about the one thing that 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:25.640 he always hated, that he described as a quote waking nightmare. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:33.360 That's right, his role as mos Shrewd. Now, I was, Oh, 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.119 you have no idea how happy I was to find 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.679 out that my suspicions were correct, that Mike had to 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.039 play Mos as kind of a cruel joke in the 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.360 writer's room, a writer's room joke because they found it 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.440 funny to make him do all of the stupid stuff 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.680 that he had to do. And boy, he had to 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.640 do some really stupid stuff. But I'm glad he did, 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.920 and I'm glad he is back joining us today because 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.560 Mike is a force in the world of TV, and 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.440 more than that, he was a huge and important part 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.760 of the Office family. So please join me in welcoming 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.280 the man who helped create so many of the iconic 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:23.640 TV personalities we know and love. Mike. Sure, Bubble and Squeak. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:30.440 I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:45.040 Cookie every month left over from the night before. You 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.320 and I. You may have forgotten this, but you and 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.640 I share an Emmy. We do we do yes for 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:57.520 the webisodes, for the webisodes. Yes, um, did you ever 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.000 get yours? I don't think I have a actual trophy 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:05.160 for it now. Well I did, I do, partly or 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:11.040 all because we were invited to the ceremony and we 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.840 accepted them, and it came home with me. Great. Yeah, 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.880 so I have it. Look it's great. Actually, it's really 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.560 was really fun. I have nothing but fun memories of 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.480 that little crazy day that we spent around you and 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.839 Paul wrote them and it was longer than a day. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.800 It was three days and three days. It was ten 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.840 episodes over three days. That was like before everyone did 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.560 webisodes all the time and these little extra things like 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.280 that was a really fun like side project that we 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:48.600 just sort of threw together. They're really funny too, they are, yes, 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.400 And I think Randall's idea was we were able to 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.880 do some things there that we well, we couldn't necessarily 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.920 do that without the full camera crew. I think, yes, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.640 it was. The premise was it was like a holiday 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.280 or something because we didn't have everyone to be in 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.120 the background. So yeah, that was right. It was. We 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.320 had a lot of backstory for why it was the 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:15.480 way it was, but um, the accounts significant because um, 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.080 I have an Emmy, congratulate an actual emmy, but you 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.720 also want an Emmy. But we were never paid for it, 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:28.359 and it led to the writers strike. I've watched a 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.479 video of you yesterday from when we were on strike. 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.160 When you were on strike, Yeah, you guys produced a 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.760 video and you said a number of things in the video. Okay, 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.400 I don't remember any of them, but I saw it 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.400 and I was like, oh my god. And then we 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.640 were joking that you guys were coming up with bits 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.920 as you were walking the picket line and making the video. 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:52.320 Kind of funny anyway, um, but you said in part 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.120 that you're watching this on the internet, a thing that 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.680 pays us zero dollars. They were put on NBC dot 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.440 com and they so old ads and we won a 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.839 Daytime Emmy and didn't make any money. The writer strike 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.680 was a really big deal. I don't know. Just talk 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.400 to me about that time and what you remember of 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.640 Greg saying no, we're not going to produce material for free. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.760 There It was a very inspiring moment for me personally, 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.160 because the central issue at the time, this is two 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.520 thousand and seven. The central issue at the time was 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.200 jurisdiction over the internet because Netflix hadn't started making original 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.839 shows yet, but people felt like they were going in 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.279 that direction, and NBC and every every network had a 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.000 website and they were starting to like stream in primitive fashion, 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.320 the stream things on the over the internet, and suddenly 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:45.760 it was like, well, if this is the future. It 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.599 didn't take a genius to think like, well, this is 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.800 the future, Like who cares whether you it's a television 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.680 screen you hang on your wall or sit on a platform, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.279 or whether it's your computer screen. This is how people 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.600 are consuming the work we do, and we ought to 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.240 get paid for them. So so those episodes were like 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.200 a big part of that because I they were shot 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.320 with the union labor and no one got paid. So 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.360 that was like the you know, it wasn't like because 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.040 of those episodes that the writers could want one strike. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.880 Those we episodes were an example of the kind of 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:18.400 thing that we were trying. We were saying, like, if 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.359 this is the way things are going, we gotta do 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.560 something about this, right. So because the companies at the time, 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.720 we're saying like, you know, we don't have enough information. 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.720 Let's just let's just let's just wait three years from now, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.920 we'll have more information and then we'll know what the 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.080 future of this is. And we were like, no, you're 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.360 you're trying to you're basically trying to grandfather in the 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:41.320 internet as like a thing that you don't pay for him. So, um, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.200 we went on strike and it was a huge deal 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.640 and it was very scary. It was like unclear what 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:53.040 was going on. The communication wasn't sublime. And Greg was like, well, 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.360 we're gonna pick out our own show. And the reason 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.080 we're gonna pick out our own show is isn't a 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.279 show of solidarity. Isn't a saying like this is the 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.560 thing we care about the most in the world. And 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.520 we were in that little Chandler studios out in the 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.599 middle of Van Eyes and it was not on a 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.520 major studio lot, and so we all showed up to 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.320 work at six in the morning and we pick it 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.640 at our own show. And we were in the middle 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.119 of season four. We were about to shoot the Dinner 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.360 Party episode, one of the most famous episodes of the 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.360 show of all time, the best read through I think 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.760 we ever had. You remember that read through? That read 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.680 there was was like it was like a rock concert. 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.760 And we had finished that script. That script is ready 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.040 to go, and that script could have been shot. The 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.200 actors could have just executed the script and the directors 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.920 were on strike and the crew wasn't on strike. But 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.760 Steve Carrell said, um no, I'm not. This is the 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.320 way we make this show is collaborative. And there's writers 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.120 on the set and there's producers on the set, and 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.520 we changed things and we work out new little moments 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.800 and pitched new jokes, and I don't think I'm gonna 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.080 make the show without the writers. And he didn't shot up, 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.560 and so they shot a couple of scenes from the 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.840 episode that Michael Scott was in, and then there was 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.280 nothing else to do and the show shutdown. And that 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.960 was such a heroic thing. He just stayed home and 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.520 he got calls from a lot of lawyers and a 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.040 lot of studio executives, from really really powerful people saying 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:16.560 you have to do this, and he was like, no, 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:21.920 don't watch me. And Greg called him and he was 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.240 home and Greg was like, hey, I know that you've 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.000 been had a lot of pressure coming at you. Are 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:27.560 you okay? And he was like, yeah, I'm home, I'm 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.280 playing with my kids, and was totally unfazed by it 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.080 and had the attitude of like, this is a collaborative effort, 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.080 this is a thing that we do together. We don't 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.280 do this, this isn't without writers on the set. We 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.000 don't make the same show. And I'm not going to 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.679 make that show fire me basically, was what he was saying, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.640 he called their bluff and the show shut down and 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.160 writs around strike for four months, and then they gave 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.080 up jurisdiction of the internet. We went back to work 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:53.960 and then we made the Dinner Party, which is amazing, 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.320 and it was truly the story of what he did 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.000 spread like wildfire. Um, he did not have to do that. 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.880 There were very few people who were in the position 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.040 that he was in, obviously as the star of a 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.960 very popular, successful, gigantic, monolithic hit show. But still he 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:13.920 didn't have to do that. He could no one would 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.280 have been mad at him. He wasn't on the actor 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.320 and I was, you know, I remember having a huge, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.160 long conversation with my representation saying like, how can I 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.440 walk past them? How can I cross how can I 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.560 cross the line? And he said that that you know, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.560 you have no choice. You have to show up, and 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.520 we knew that, and Ed, I remember Ed came out 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.360 and was like hey, guys, and he hung out with us, 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.560 and I remember Ed going, I'm really sorry, but I 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.000 have and we're like, no, no, no, we get it. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.160 Your union is not on strike here, like you're not. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.600 We get it. It's fine. No one's bad at you. Like, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.120 no one had any animosity towards any of the actors 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.880 because you were in breach of contract if you didn't 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.440 show up. Steve was in breach of contract. He just said, 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.600 I don't care fire me. And it's easier for the 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.600 star of the show to do that than it is 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.360 for anyone else. But the story spread like wildfire, and 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.320 Mindy wrote a sign in marker um hung it on 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.960 his trailer that said like Steve Corral American hero or 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.040 something and took a picture of it, and it spread 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.760 very quickly around the town and it was a real 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.040 like wind beneath the wings of the guild at the time. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:22.640 It's amazing. I mean he you can't sort of overstate 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:28.520 just what an amazing guy he is and person to 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.360 work with ya, I mean, the person who's number one 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.840 on the call sheet sets the tone of the show 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.840 age He or she just does. It's people take their 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.920 cues from that person. That person kind of says like, 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.160 this is what's allowable behavior, and this is what isn't 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.360 allowable behavior in a in a number of different ways, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.360 actively and passively. And his presence at the top of 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.960 the call sheet, especially in that early going, but his professionalism, 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.760 his his dedication. He was never late a day in 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.920 his life. He knew all of his lines, and when 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.880 he didn't, he improvised something that was funnier than what 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.200 we had written. Um. I don't know if you know 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.920 this story, but there was a even on successful shows. 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:15.600 In fact, especially on successful shows, networks are always trying 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.120 to slash budgets, right, Like it's when something's making money. 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.400 It's not like thank God, we're making money, it's how 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.120 do we make more money? And there was a budget 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.400 meeting with NBC and Greg. It must have been after 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.240 season four because Greg and I were developing Parks and 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.280 Wreck and he asked me to come to say, like, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:31.920 you're gonna have to deal with this kind of crap 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.760 and you should see what it's like. And there was 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.559 a budget terry meeting and they were trying to slash 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.400 the budget and one of the things on the table 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.040 was reducing the size of the cast because at that point, 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.000 how many series regulars were there? Twenty two or something. 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.199 It was a lot by far, the largest cast of 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.200 any show on television. And Greg was like, I don't 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.800 think that's a good idea that people invest in these characters. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.400 Everyone has a different favorite character, and even a side character, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.320 a character like you know, Jan or something who was 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.040 not even a series regular, Like if you don't have 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.880 her on the show in a certain number of episodes, 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.679 it doesn't feel like the same show. And they were like, well, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.640 we have to find the money somewhere, you know, and 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.480 we're only making seven eight million dollars a year on 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.439 this thing. And so we went back and we had 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.840 a meeting with Steve and I can't remember who was there, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.719 but Greg was like, okay, so here's what happened in 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.320 the meeting, and they want to cut the budget in 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.240 this and that, and they threw out a number of options, 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:34.040 one of which was reducing the cast, and Steve went no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.559 Like he said no like eight times in a row. 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:38.800 And Greg was like, well that was my reaction to 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.199 and Steve just went, no, it's not happening. That is 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.000 not happening. We with that is not going to happen, 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.160 Like he just so completely shut it down as even 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:48.760 he was like, this is the show. These are the 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.360 people on the show. This is how the show will 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.600 be until the end of the show. That's it. That's it, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.480 And and there were executives in the room, and it 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.200 was like that ended the discussion. It was just over, 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.959 like there was no It was a little bit like 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.880 sue me or fire me. It was like, in so 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.560 many words, he was saying, I won't do the show 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.000 if you do that, like I will walk away, and 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.760 it just shut it down and shut it down forever, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.600 and no one ever ever came up again, never once. 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.560 So mazing. Yeah, he's just he's just such a mench 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.600 and and his like it wasn't angry, he wasn't pounding 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.320 his fist. He was just saying, no, that's not going 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:32.199 to happen, that nonstarter. Move on, what's next. And that's 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.280 the way he is he was. It was just this quiet, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.840 firm leadership that he exhibited all the time in every direction. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:44.160 And he there was another time in two the big 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.439 future of TV was product placement. That's where money was 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.520 going to really be made, right, you were gonna Greg 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.640 used to say, like the deal was you have to 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.760 take some medicine when you watch TV in the medicine 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.520 as these ads, but then you get a yummy treat 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.280 and the treat is the show you like, right, And 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.360 product placement was they were going to try to whirld 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:05.160 of medicine into the the and um Ben was like 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.440 a big proponent of it, and so was it by 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.240 the way everyone else like it was like this is 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.960 the future, Like the futures were going back ironically to 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:13.800 like the fifties, and it was like the Lucky Strike 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:19.080 comedy exactly, this is delicious. So we have this big meeting, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.000 all hands on deck meeting. Um we had done the 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.720 Staples thing, remember the Staples where you had it. You you 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.160 you bore the brunt of it because you had to 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.800 play with that shredder and Staples didn't send me a check. No, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.440 Well that was that was that was partly. That was 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.520 a big part of Greg's objection to it was like, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.240 if Brian wants to do a Staples ad, then he 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:38.920 can go do a Staples ad and they can pay 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:43.040 him money. But Staples is getting free Brian baum Gardner 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.480 and free Rain Wilson and free whoever by like giving 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.320 NBC money and the show doesn't even really benefit. It's 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.800 this kind of complicated calculus, right, But we had this 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.880 big meeting where we were really being sold on product placement, 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.880 and it was it was getting away from us. It 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.560 was being put to us in a way where it 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.120 was like, you're going to say yes to this. We're 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.040 going to keep telling you to do this until you 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.960 say yes. Talk talk talk talk, talk talk. And then 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.280 Craig went, Steve, what do you think? Which was a 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.520 brilliant idea, and Steve said, you know, I started in commercials, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.800 and commercials are great when you're a struggling actor and 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.240 you need money and stuff. But what happens in commercials 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.320 is you do a commercial for coke, and you know, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.000 you do a take where you take a sip of 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.320 coke and you say mmmmm, coke tastes great, and then 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.040 they go, okay, cut, can you rotate the can a 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.880 little more like this and hold it like this? Okay, good, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.360 Go again and you go coke. I love coke. Coke 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.160 takes right, and they go great, But can you raise 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.080 it up to your lips an inch higher when you 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:47.800 take the sip? Because you just do that over and 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.240 over and over again. And he said, the idea that 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.440 anyone would have that kind of influencer control over our 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.800 show and the way we make our show, which is 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.320 loose and fun and collaborative, and the operators are diving 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.680 for different things, and the actors get to try different 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.280 things every time. I remember him saying the idea that 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.120 Rain would say something funny and we wouldn't be able 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:10.920 to use it because he wasn't holding the coke can 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.680 at the right angle. I don't think that's a good idea. 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.200 And there was a pause and then it was like, Okay, well, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.480 let's we'll pick up this discussion, you know, next week 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.440 or something. Never brought it up again. He just like 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.360 he was just the He was the guardian of the show. 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.680 In that way, he and Greg were just they had 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.480 two different versions of the job, but the onset world 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.240 of the show. Steve was the guardian protector of what 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.680 we did and how it was done and who did 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.120 it and no one messed them. It was just like 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.480 he was the final arbiter because he knew, he understood 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.520 so implicitly what made it great and he wasn't interested 0:16:52.520 --> 0:17:16.720 in letting anyone mess it up. What to you makes 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:21.800 the office the office? Or what does the office mean 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.920 to you? Oh? God, well those are those are even questions? 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:27.879 What makes the office the office? And what does the 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.960 office mean to me? What? What what does the office 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:37.200 mean to you? Well? I mean, it's where the Office 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.240 is where I learned how to write. And I mean 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.840 that in exactly as fundamental a way as I'm saying. 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.920 And I didn't know how to write before I got 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:45.919 the job, and now I do. And it's because of 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.800 that show, not just Greg's tutelage, but the mechanics of 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.520 the stories that we told and the the obstacles we 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.119 had to overcome. Obstacles are good for comedy, and the 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.280 Office had the basic obstacles of being a network show 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.480 and having to cram a story into twenty two minutes 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.240 and all that stuff, which are great obstacles everyone should 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.639 learn how to write on a network sitcom. But then 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.200 it had all these other artificial obstacles the Greg added 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.359 and the mocumentary style added, and the number of characters 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.560 that in the show. So Greg taught me how to 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.920 actually write, and then the show taught me how to write. Well, 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.040 I think, because any episode you did, you would look 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.359 at it and go like, well, it's like a jigsaw puzzle. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.000 There are twenty people in the cast, and there's there's 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.000 three stories, and I have twenty one minutes and thirty seconds, 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.399 and how do I put this all together? And you 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.840 learn to be really non precious with your own writing. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.440 You learn like these things are disposable. They're not poems. 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.679 Greg used to say that the scripts aren't poems, right, 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.800 their architectural blueprints there. They're living documents, and they change, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.480 and it's okay for them to change, Like you can 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.560 think this is great. There's only a couple of times 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.760 in my life where something didn't really play well and 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.640 I really really odd for it, knowing that it wasn't 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.040 gonna play well. One of them, this is like, this 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.159 is like my own, this is my own like indulgence, 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.199 but I wrote it. I wrote a Dwight has a 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.000 talking head where he says, um, it was always backstory 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:20.040 that Dwight's and maternal ancestors were maybe Nazis, And so 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.880 we did a talking head where Dwight says, um, my 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.400 maternal grandmother is like a hundred and two and still 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:30.080 puttering around down in Argentina, And then he says, um, 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.359 I tried to visit her once, but my visa was 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:37.480 protested by the show of Foundation, and I just I 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.960 it didn't really It got like a moderate laugh because 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:42.480 a lot of people probably didn't what the show of 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.760 Foundation was. But like I remember fighting really hard for 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.720 that in the edit, like Greg wanted to cut it, 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.600 I think, and I was like, please, please, please, please please. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.800 But that's the exception that proves the rule. Mostly it 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.280 was like you watch, we watched these cuts together, and 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:57.639 you see what works and what doesn't work, and you 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.000 just cut everything that doesn't work, like you don't get precious? 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.400 Was the show foundation in there? Yeah? That that aired? Okay, Yes, 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.080 that totally aired, and it makes me laugh every time 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.200 I remember that. I remember that part of it. No, 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.879 it aired, It definitely aired because I was basically like, 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.200 I will never ask you for anything for the rest 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.640 of my life if you leave this in. Was there 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.440 anything that got cut that you wish hadn't. I'm sure 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.480 there was. I don't remember offhand. So in the Job 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.480 I think it was. In the Job we wrote talking 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.440 Hand for Dwight that was I think an entire page long. 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.480 It was insane. It was like, um, a version of 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.280 a much shorter version of it aired, but there was 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.040 a It was about how one of his cousins, I 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.400 think or Moses brother or something was had one leg 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.359 that was shorter than the other one, and when he 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.679 ran to the bus he would have to curve in 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.760 like a long arc because the natural awkward gait of 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:53.760 one leg being shorter than the other one would cause 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:55.879 him to run in like a into like a long curve. 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.600 And it was nonsense. I mean it was. It went 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.480 on for so long on Paul and I were just 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.840 in a crazy giggle fit and we wrote like the 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.359 Endless talking Head for Rain and he loved it and 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.959 he like memorized the whole thing and like nailed it. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:11.760 And I was like, I wish this could air, but 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.879 there's no way to justify it. It's complete. There's nothing 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.760 to do with the story at all, you know. Um. 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.200 Greg Greg also introduced this concept of double duty. Have 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.640 people talking about double duty. Greg's thing was like, look, 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.359 we have such a limited time here, and he said 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:33.119 the bad sitcoms split there lines. Some are jokes and 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.840 some are are like story, because he said, what happens 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.800 is if you've separated the story and the jokes, you 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:40.320 cut all the jokes to get the story, and then 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.040 you have nothing but stories. So he was like really 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.639 hard on us of like, you have to make the story. 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.840 Minds funny. They have to do double duty, and if 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.040 they don't, then it's not good enough and you gotta 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.400 do it again, do it again, and do it again. Yeah, 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.040 and it's that was an amazing lesson to learn it 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:58.600 because it was like, yeah, you don't have time. You 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.080 can't have talking heads that are jokes, except for when 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.400 they were about the show A Foundation. Yeah, I mean, 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.840 they're definitely worse. So that's so funny. Yeah, I want 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:08.840 to get you out of here. You have talked so 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.280 much about Greg and so poetically and articulately. Is there 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.399 anything that you want to say about you leaving with 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:19.359 Greg to start Parks and Wreck? Yeah? So he was 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.120 actually during the writers strike, we were picketing UM at 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:25.840 Paramount and he was like, Hey, I want to talk 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.400 to you, and he basically said like the network wants 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:29.639 me to do a new show, and I want to 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.840 do it with you, which was like, you know, I remember, 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:35.800 I remember, like what what does this feel like? And 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.440 I was like, oh, it feels like Mozart told me 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.560 he wants to design a piano with me or something like. 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.520 That's the closest analog I could come. Was like, this 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:46.679 is the this is it, Like this is the moment 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.600 that my life changes even more than it has already 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.200 and so at the time Ben wanted to do a 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.399 spinoff of the Office for obvious reasons. But I was like, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:58.000 is that? What was that? What this is? And he 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:00.639 was like, I don't know. I told Ben in the 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:04.160 network that I would do another show with with you 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.119 and if it turned out that the best idea this is, 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:09.560 It's classic Greig. It's like, if the best idea is 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:11.480 to do a spinoff of the from the Office, great, 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.080 But if the best idea is something else, then we 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:15.720 should do something else. Which is such a again like 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.640 Greg also is a man of enormous integrity, creative integrity, 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.359 and personal integrity. But the idea that he wouldn't just 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:24.600 cash in. He could have cashed in so easily. He 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.200 could have taken every department. He could have taken the 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.280 accountants and spun them into his own show. And he 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.359 could have taken Kelly and spun her into a show. 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.120 And he could have taken Jan and spun that into 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:34.760 which he could have it. He could be the dick 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:37.399 Wolf of comedy if he wanted to. But he was like, 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:41.160 I don't want to harm the integrity of the office proper. 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.439 If there's a way to do it that doesn't do that, 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.359 then great, but if not, then we'll do something else. 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.000 And so the strike ends and we go back and 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.439 we make I don't know fifteen or sixteen episodes of 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.040 the show that year. And then he and I started meeting. 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:58.280 We went to um Norm's diner, and we met for 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:03.000 breakfast like three times a week, and I pitched him 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:05.280 I don't know, two hundred and seventy five ideas for 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:07.800 TV shows, and he and he picked, and he to 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:09.720 me like it wasn't a one way street. Some of 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:11.200 them were spin off. Some of them was like, well, 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.199 maybe we could do something with the warehouse, you know, 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:15.520 or maybe a different branch. I mean, he called the show. 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.000 I don't if you've ever heard this story, but the 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:20.280 reason the show is called the Office cole in an 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:24.600 American Workplace is because he, thinking a thousand chest moves ahead, 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.480 was like, if this works, you could do the school 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.159 an American workplace and do a show about teachers. You 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:33.120 could do like, you know, the Team, an American workplace 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.320 about a monor league baseball team. Whatever. So some of 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:38.240 them were spinoff, some of them weren't. We ended up 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:40.920 settling on what became Parts and Wreck, which was basically 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:44.160 like the Office is an investigation of the private sector, 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:45.600 and we could do it at the same thing with 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:47.639 the public sector. And then we got really excited about 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:51.200 like we can invent dunder Mifflin, but an entire town, 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.879 like an entire ecosystem with media outlets and restaurants and 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:59.080 city hall and local celebrities and all and a history 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.080 and all that stuff and now. So that was what 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.879 set our brands on fire. So I was around for 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:07.000 the beginning of season five through Weight Loss and a 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.960 couple other episodes, but really mostly what I was doing 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.800 was focusing on Parks and Rack from that time. So, 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.720 I mean, I I was very nervous because The Office 0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:19.520 is the best job I had ever had in my 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:23.240 life by a factor of a thousand. But again I 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.359 was like, I don't you don't turn down the chance 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:28.399 to develop a show with Greg Daniels would be like 0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:31.240 telling Mozart, no thanks, I can find a better piano teacher, 0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.359 you know. Um. So it was very scary, but it 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:36.160 was also I was like, yeah, this is right, this 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:40.000 is the right move. And obviously I was correct. Right, 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:42.719 here's a I don't know, this just occurred to me. 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:45.960 If Greg had not said that to you, would you 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:49.000 have left the office? No? God, no, No, I would 0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:50.520 have stayed. I mean I don't know if I would 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:52.760 have stayed the whole time, but I certainly would have stayed. 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:55.480 I had no plans to leave, like I was happily 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:57.480 working there. I would have worked there for at least 0:25:57.520 --> 0:25:59.840 another I think my contract was like two more years 0:25:59.840 --> 0:26:02.920 at so yeah. I mean I wasn't looking to leave 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:05.480 at all, Like, there was no part of me that 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.000 was itching. I mean when he offered me that chance, 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:11.679 and I sort of did my evaluation of like, is 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:13.919 there any reason not to do this? The only reason 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:16.200 not to do it was how much I love working 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:19.000 on my current job. And like any obvious risks involved 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:22.120 with starting something new, there is a real scary thing 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:24.560 in this business of like if you've got a bird 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:27.639 in the hand, man take like leave in your hands, 0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:29.880 Like what are you doing? But then I was like, well, 0:26:30.240 --> 0:26:34.879 if it blows up, I'll bet he'll hire me. Still 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.200 find some junior writer to kick out of the way. 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:39.440 Can I tell you my favorite here's my favorite Greg 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:43.159 story maybe ever And it doesn't even really involve Greg. 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:45.359 So we're trying to come up with the idea for 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.720 Parks and Wreck, and I got really excited about it. 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:50.840 And I was like, oh yeah, it's like it's like 0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:53.159 a comedy West Wing. That's the like, if the stakes 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.240 of the West Wing are Russia and China are going 0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:59.080 to go to war in Kazakhstan, the stakes of this 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:01.160 show are the boys soccer team and the girls soccer 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:03.800 team both are trying to use the same soccer field, right, 0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:06.320 And I just saw the whole thing. I saw and 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:07.800 Greg was the one who came up with the idea 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:09.680 that there's like a pit that she's trying to fill in. 0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.040 And and so we talked and talked and talked about 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:13.960 like a full day session where we'd like pitch and 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:19.000 it's usually with ideas for episodes or anything like you know, 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:21.880 it's good when, like you, it feels like you accidentally 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.600 hit an oil vein, you know, the oil spurt, like 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:27.720 ideas are just flying. But because he's Greg, he didn't 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:29.560 commit to it. He was like, Okay, good, we've got that. 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:31.280 Let's keep let's keep pitching, trying to come up with 0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:33.240 something else. And we talked about a family show, a 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:36.480 mockumentary about a family, and we talked about I can't 0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:39.439 remember what else, but just day after day after day 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:41.000 after day, and the whole time, I was like, no, 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:42.679 we have the idea, we know what it is, we 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:44.760 know what it is. So Greg used to have people 0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:47.119 over to his house to watch episodes, right were the 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:48.879 whole cast and all the writers, everybody who come to 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:51.960 his house. And I saw his wife, Suzanne, and she 0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:53.520 was like, how's it going? And I was like, it's 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:55.919 going great, you know. And she was like, do you 0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:57.679 know what the ideas yet? And I was like no, 0:27:57.880 --> 0:27:59.600 and she was like, I kind of hope it's that 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:02.520 government at one And I was like I kind of 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:05.840 couldn't mask my like anxiety. And I was like, yeah, yeah, 0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:10.280 me too, me too. And she laughed and was like, 0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:13.119 let me tell you a story. And I said okay, 0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:16.640 and she said, so early on in Gregg's in my marriage, 0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:19.800 we were driving, I think they were driving from Chicago 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:23.639 to New York and she says, uh, it's ten o'clock 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:27.000 at night and I'm starving and we're driving through like 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.560 shull Kill, Pennsylvania. And I said, honey, you gotta you 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:32.720 gotta start, you gotta pull around, starving. I just need 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:34.200 I need someone to eat and he was like, okay. 0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:36.480 So we pull off the highway and we see I 0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:38.160 was like, there's a dinner. Go to the dinner. So 0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:40.640 we go to the diner. We walk in and the 0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:43.320 waitresses comes over and Greg starts going out, what do 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:45.280 you guys serve here? Like what is everyone like? What's 0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:47.480 everyone's favorite dish here? And she was like, oh, people, 0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:49.960 we really like the meat loaf and and he goes like, like, 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:52.320 how do you prepare it? And she doesn't meat loafing 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:54.239 and whatever, and he's like what else do people like? 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:56.680 And Suzanne says to him, can we just sit down 0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:58.920 and eat? And he goes, no, I don't want to 0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:00.640 know what kind of food they have, And so he 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:02.600 asked that hunter more questions and she goes, Honey, I'm 0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:05.200 starving less to see and he goes, Susanne, we may 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:07.720 never be in Schulkill, Pennsylvania again. This might be the 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:09.840 only time we're ever here. We have to like eat 0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:11.800 at the best place. We have to like learn everything 0:29:11.800 --> 0:29:15.960 about this place, like get the best dining experience in Scholkill, Pennsylvania. 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:18.760 And she said, Then we pulled out and we we 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:20.520 we left. We didn't sit down. We what drove to 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:24.480 another restaurant. We went in, he repeated the asked, you know, 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.240 more questions, what do you serve here? What do people like? Whatever? 0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:30.320 And finally they found like the fourth place they went to, 0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:32.280 and maybe they even doubled back and ended up going 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:35.440 back to the first one. But she tells me this 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:38.480 story and I'm like staring at her mouth agape, and 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:41.200 she goes, that's the man I chose to marry, and 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.440 that's the man you've chosen to develop a TV show. 0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:50.600 And it was like I was like, you're right, You're 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:54.400 totally right, and like the truth is, I'll bet they 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.960 did have the best meat loaf in Scholkill, Pennsylvania, and 0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:00.280 like there's no better TV show that I would have 0:30:00.320 --> 0:30:02.400 created other than the one that we created together, and 0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:25.960 like it's it's just who he is. Yeah, well let's 0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:30.840 let's play that. Uh played number six. I thought it 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:34.520 was weird when you picked us to make a documentary, 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:40.800 but all in all, I think an ordinary paper company 0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:43.960 like dunder Mifflin was a great subject for a documentary. 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:50.440 There's a lot of beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that 0:30:50.560 --> 0:31:01.040 kind of the point. So it's really to me clear 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:03.520 that's what Greg thought it was all about. Did Lee 0:31:03.600 --> 0:31:05.880 or anyone to talk about truth and beauty? Has that 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:09.320 phrase come up? Truth and beauty. There were a bunch 0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:12.400 of phrases that were like sort of the mantras early on, 0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:15.280 and Greg's the number one most repeated allem with truth 0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:18.440 and beauty. And he was like, everything that we make 0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:22.320 should be true, should be real, should feel like it's true, 0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:25.920 and it should be the attempt should be to find 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:28.560 the beauty. And whatever you're doing and the writing and 0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:30.560 the acting and the directing and the set design and 0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.480 the costumes and everything, truth and beauty, Truth and beauty. 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:36.240 And it just got deeply ingrained in us. He gave 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:40.240 us an analogy for what the show was um in 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:46.320 the first season, which was, imagine a completely paved parking 0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:49.239 lot in an office park. It's stretching out as far 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.960 as you can see, and you're walking across it, and 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:54.880 it's a hot day and as you're just in a 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:57.800 corporate industrial waste land, and then you look down and 0:31:57.800 --> 0:31:59.920 there's a crack in the asphalt and there's a single 0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:03.600 little dandy lion growing through the crack. He's like, that's 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.280 what the show is. It's finding that Dandylion right, finding 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:10.400 that little tiny glimmer of truth and beauty and happiness 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:15.960 in aggressively unbeautiful landscape. Greg used to say, I'm really 0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:19.040 I found like like a like a cult member. It's 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:20.960 we're talking about Greg as much as I am, but 0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:24.360 it's impossible to talk about the show without talking about him. 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.400 The truth and beauty was like, it didn't surprise me 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:29.800 when that was the end of the show. I remember thinking, like, yeah, 0:32:29.920 --> 0:32:32.880 he nailed He like at the very end of the day, 0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.840 he sort of laid out his view of what why 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:39.800 the show mattered for everyone through Pam, which is the 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:43.400 right character to do it through. You know, Pam believes 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:50.080 that Michael may have been whatever lead, but that Pam 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:52.520 was truly the heart of the show. Who said that, 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:57.120 Jenna Jenna, I think she's probably right. Um. I've had 0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:00.160 this conversation with a bunch of people in the US 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.320 with the with the weird resurgence of the show in 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:05.440 the last couple of years. I've talked to Gentilata and 0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:09.440 Paul and and Lee and Mindy. I think about like 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:12.320 just when you rewatch it, one of the episodes that 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:17.200 hit you the hardest. I think that the maybe maybe 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:21.320 the best episode that we ever did was Pam's art show. 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:24.480 The ending of that episode is no one comes to 0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:26.280 her art show because no one likes her at that 0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:28.360 moment in the show, and at the end of it, 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:30.600 Michael shows up and one of the things that she 0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:35.320 drew was the office and he is just like so 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:38.880 blown away by it, and it's so meaningful that he's 0:33:38.920 --> 0:33:40.800 there for her because no one else showed up, Jim 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:45.240 didn't show up, nobody showed up and um, and she 0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:47.920 hugs him and then there's a great joke that I 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:52.440 think they added on the set where she's like, what's 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:54.720 in your pocket? And he goes chunky and she looks 0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:56.200 at him and he pulls it out and it's an 0:33:56.200 --> 0:34:00.640 actual chunky. But that the moment where he shows up, 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:04.360 I think is the is maybe the best moment and 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:06.320 that we ever did, like him showing up at her 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:09.239 our show and her reaction to it and her hugging him, 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.320 like I think she's right, Like Pam, that is the 0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:15.600 She is the person in those moments who makes Michael 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:19.319 feel better when the bird dies, and who like he's 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:22.720 kind of the gatekeeper of everybody's emotional status and stuff 0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:25.480 and yeah, I know, well it's interesting that you bring 0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:30.919 that up because that coupled with that talking head. That's 0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:33.680 the last moment of the show, is Pam picking up 0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.480 that drawing and taking it with her. That's right, Yeah, 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:40.440 I know. And it was very That episode was very 0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:43.920 hard to break. I remember I think Brent wrote it 0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:46.960 Brent Forrester. As we did every episode, we rewrote it 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:48.960 over and over and over and over again, and like 0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:52.360 that was the that was like a late addition, was 0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:54.560 like that the way out of this. We're always looking 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:56.319 for the for the off ramp for Michael of like 0:34:56.360 --> 0:35:00.000 how does he get out of his whatever miserable circumstance 0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:02.560 hands he put himself in. And it was like, oh, 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:04.200 the way out is he goes to Pam's art chow 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:06.920 and then the idea that she drew the office and 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:08.920 he takes it back and hangs it up like he's 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.759 It was like that was the emotional solve, and uh, 0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:15.040 it was like, oh, he should that's where he should 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.040 hang it, right outside his office. It should be the 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:19.000 thing that he sees every day before he goes to work, 0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:23.200 you know. Is I mean those little those little tiny consistencies, 0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:24.959 that's what's so great about having a show that lasts 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:26.440 for a long time as you get to do these 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.799 things in season three or whatever that are there and 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.440 that like end up mattering a whole lot in season 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:35.920 I mean, as a fan, I wrote the episode with 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:38.279 the teapot and the note and everything, and then it 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:40.279 was like in season nine when I was watching just 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:41.719 as a fan and I was like, oh my god, 0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:47.080 it's coming back, right, and we had I had um 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:50.920 John write the note himself and I said, don't tell 0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:54.080 anyone what you're writing. Write whatever you want, right, whatever 0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:55.880 you think Jim would write. And I don't know what 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.239 he wrote. I no, I've never seen it, and I 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.560 don't think he ever told anyone. I don't think Jenn 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.040 ever told anyone. Like it's like I think I believe 0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:05.080 it's like a secret shared by the two of essentially 0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:08.520 by the two of them and maybe the props department 0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:14.200 if they steamed it open and looked at Wow, Um, 0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:18.480 what do you think it's legacy is? I mean, it's 0:36:18.560 --> 0:36:23.000 legacy is Uh, it's going to be enormous, I think. 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:25.160 I mean for a couple of reasons. One is it's 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:29.279 really good. Two is the cast is incredible. And every time, 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:33.000 every time someone discovers Jenni Fish or John Krasinski or 0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:37.400 Rain Wilson or you or Angelo or anybody or Craig Robinson, 0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:39.280 they're going to go, like, where did this person start? 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:41.160 And then they're gonna go back and watch the show. 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:43.719 But also it just was on. It did that, We 0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:46.279 did two episodes, Like there aren't many shows that do 0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:49.399 that anymore. That era is over, Like there, how many 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:51.920 more shows are going to even do a hundred in 0:36:51.960 --> 0:36:54.680 this era that we're in a six episode, eight episode, 0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:56.960 ten episodes seasons, even shows that last ten years do 0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:01.000 eight episodes or something. And I think the reason why 0:37:01.000 --> 0:37:03.080 so many people have discovered it and have like really 0:37:03.960 --> 0:37:06.920 sat with it is because it's one of the last shows, 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:08.800 one of the most recent shows where you feel like 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:11.480 you can watch a new episode every night. And and 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:13.880 you know, my son is eleven now. My son was 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:16.560 was born in season four of the show, and he's 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:20.279 now eleven, and he just watched every single episode, and 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:22.719 every kid in his grads watched every single episode. By 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:24.800 the way, here's another thing Greg did. We used to 0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:27.879 try constantly to like put pop culture references in the show, 0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:31.799 and Greg was like, you know, no no pop culture references. Um, 0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:34.360 this show needs to feel like it could. It's timeless, 0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.840 like it could be happening in any moment in time 0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.319 from the seventies until like two thousand fifty. And I 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.480 remember thinking at the time, like, all right, you're pretty 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:45.719 high on yourself there. But they just think that this 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.640 show is gonna matter. And now look it's twenty years 0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:50.879 later and it matters just as much. And my son 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:53.360 doesn't know that that show isn't on the air. Netflix 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:57.439 shows and ABC shows and are the same. And it's 0:37:57.480 --> 0:37:59.400 crazy because now you can watch it and it doesn't 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:03.520 feel dated because there's no references to, you know, things 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:05.759 that were happening in two let's see. I think it's 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:09.879 different than that. I respectfully slightly disagree. Interesting because when 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.560 you watch it, which I recently did, it doesn't feel dated. Yeah, 0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:16.720 we'll see when I think it was? Was you guys 0:38:16.880 --> 0:38:21.360 in the writing, we're so specific. The characters were written 0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:25.680 so specifically, and so it almost functions that because you 0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:28.319 don't watch a documentary about the seventies and go that 0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:31.720 feels dated, right, It's just like that's when it happened. 0:38:32.120 --> 0:38:36.320 So now we're watching a documentary about this very specific 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:40.160 placement at this very specific moment. I I think maybe 0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:42.640 it's both things, right. It's like we didn't call attention 0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:44.799 to when it was happening, and also we were very 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.440 specific about what was happening. And then that way, it 0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:50.320 just feels like it's a moment in time, of place 0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:52.840 in time, wherever you want to put it. So I 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:55.520 like the in terms of its legacy. To get back 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.040 to that, I keep getting off topic, but I think 0:38:58.040 --> 0:39:00.200 that people settle into the show and watch this show 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:06.080 because it has this incredible specificity and it has this 0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:10.640 just deep It feels like you're eating the richest dessert 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:13.520 a tiny bit at a time, and that is a 0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:16.640 really lovely feeling to have. Like, you know, it's a 0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:21.800 different kind of hangout show from other successful hangout shows, 0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:24.239 from Cheers or Friends or the It's a it's a 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:28.080 hangout show that that feels like the emotional lives of 0:39:28.120 --> 0:39:33.759 the characters are completely wrought and thick and juicy, and 0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:37.920 you can really follow people's psychologies and their lives as 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:39.880 they grow over the course of nine years. And I 0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:42.319 don't I think a show like that is very rare, 0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:44.320 and I think that people will still be watching this 0:39:44.400 --> 0:40:06.279 show a very long time right now. When was the 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:09.719 decision made for writers to start acting in the show 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:12.880 from the before the before the pilot, I mean Greg 0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:17.120 coming from SNL, Greg wanted SNL is very um. The 0:40:17.200 --> 0:40:20.960 membrane between writers and actors is very thin, and all 0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:23.280 the actors write stuff, and a lot of the writers 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.000 are in sketches and stuff. And almost everyone there's a 0:40:26.000 --> 0:40:28.839 writer performer, even if he or she is only on 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.759 staff as a writer or something. And he liked that, 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.360 and he wanted to get rid of the false dichotomy 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.280 of writers and actors. So he hired Mindy specifically because 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:40.879 she was a performer. She was in a play called 0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:42.799 Mattin Band that she had written in New York. He 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:44.800 hired b J because BJ was a stand up and 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:49.320 a writer. He and then like we made Paul against 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.120 his will play Toby in the first season, like we forced. 0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:55.239 He did not want to do it. He hated it, 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.000 he hated acting, but we forced him to do it 0:40:58.000 --> 0:40:59.799 because he was so funny to have him be the 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:02.799 guy that Michael Scott hates more than anybody. But it 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:04.720 was that was always the design. I think he wanted 0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:08.600 everybody to to write and perform ideally except for me, 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:13.239 because he made me a freak. Most famously and most 0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:18.200 annoyingly to me, played the character most shrewd. Oh my god. 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:24.360 We never talked about most Oh my god. I assumed 0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:26.000 it was gonna be your first question. I I know, 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:27.960 I have a whole section on it. But you were 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:33.360 so great? Um, all right, well then just very quickly 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:36.359 sure you were cast as most I was, and you're 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:39.600 happy about that. Hated it. I hated every second of it. 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:42.000 Why did you hate it? Because I was wearing wool 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:44.560 clothes and had a neck beard and it was always 0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:47.640 really hot, and I didn't The joke was I didn't talk, 0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:53.760 and that's not a funny joke. And it was always 0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:55.360 like I had to get up at four thirty in 0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:57.239 the morning and drive to the middle of nowhere and 0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:59.799 wear wool clothes and it was. And then the joke 0:42:00.040 --> 0:42:01.600 came with the writers because they knew how much I 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.160 hated it. They loved like, what if you're shirtless, what 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:06.239 if you're on a seesaw, What if you're on a trampoline, 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:09.200 What if you're running as fast as you can alongside 0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:11.480 a car like a dog I was at Parks and 0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:13.279 wreck and they would call me and they like, we 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:15.360 need mos And I was like, I have a job, 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:17.840 I have a life, I have young children, and they 0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:20.560 would just make me do it. They would compete with 0:42:20.600 --> 0:42:22.800 each other to see what was the most humiliating possible 0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:25.239 thing they could have me do. But that that episode 0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:28.080 Paul So, Paul wrote that episode where they were Jim 0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.719 and Pam go to Shreot Farms, and he wrote in 0:42:30.760 --> 0:42:33.359 the in the script, it literally says, Mose appears out 0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:35.080 of nowhere and runs along the side of the car 0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:37.560 like a dog. That's what it says. That's I'm a 0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:41.160 human being. And so we did that scene. It was 0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:43.760 a hundred and forty degrees. I was in woolf clothes 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:46.600 and and old work boots that like didn't fit properly. 0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:50.800 And that sprint is probably a hundred and fifty yards 0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:53.399 down that dirt road from the time I come out 0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:55.319 to the time I had to run all the way 0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:58.800 up into Shrewt Farms. Of course cuts off long before 0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:00.279 I ever get there, of course, but they like, you 0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:02.040 got it, Paul was directing, was like, you gotta run 0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:05.640 all the way there. So I did over and over 0:43:05.719 --> 0:43:08.839 and over again, probably twelve or fourteen takes because Paul 0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:11.200 delighted in it so much. And then later in that episode, 0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:14.360 I'm in Jurassic Park pajamas that don't fit me properly. 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:16.719 And then Greg pitched the thing where he was like, 0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:19.040 what if there's a loud noise and Pam goes to 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:20.759 the window and looks at it, and Moses in the 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:24.160 outhouse with his pants down and the doors flapping clothes. 0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:26.279 I mean it was like it was aggressive. It was 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:29.000 They knew I never should have been. If I had said, like, 0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:30.840 I love doing this, they never would have put me 0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:32.640 in the show again. But because I hated it so 0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:35.120 much and was so vocal about hating it, well, you 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:39.520 have confirmed something. Moses a is a fan favorite. You 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:43.480 hear about people loving most. Okay, let me tell you something. 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:47.040 What I have always said is I think Moses a 0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:51.960 writer's room joke. Oh, you have now confirmed without a 0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:55.919 doubt that it was literally a writer's room meant to 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:59.799 torture you, meant specifically to make me miserable. Yes, yes, 0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:04.200 was in a coffin. I was like hanging upside down somewhere, 0:44:04.320 --> 0:44:06.080 like there were a bunch of things that we did 0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:08.880 that were then just cut out of the show. I 0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:12.360 was riding a moped over like trying to jump a 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.440 bunch of cars. They made me do that moped thing. 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:17.399 I don't know how to drive a moped. I don't 0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:19.040 know how to drive a moped. No one taught me 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:20.600 how to drive. They were like, just get on and 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:23.080 just rev the thing, because the point was if I 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:26.239 wipe out, it'll be really fun now, and then run 0:44:26.280 --> 0:44:29.520 across the roofs of these cars again. If you slip 0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:32.280 and fall and break your pelvis, it'll be really funny. 0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:35.840 Like they was. The subtext was always the worst this goes, 0:44:36.000 --> 0:44:38.879 the funnier it will be when it happens. Well, I 0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:41.680 this was after you left. I mean sort of from 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:45.440 the beginning, but then more and more Kevin started having 0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:49.080 a lot of physical comedy type stuff. And there would 0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:53.560 be times where I would go to the writer's room 0:44:53.719 --> 0:44:55.680 and say, I don't remember if you were ever there, 0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:58.440 but I would say, you guys are writing for Homer 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:03.040 Simpson right now, and a cartoon you can force to 0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:06.960 do whatever you'd like him to do. He can do whatever, right, 0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.880 but I can't. My body doesn't work that way. No 0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:14.200 one does right, like the most painful. I feel like 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.480 I still have pain from it. Is the most innocuous. 0:45:17.480 --> 0:45:20.640 You would never ever ever know. The office workers have 0:45:20.719 --> 0:45:23.359 to go to the warehouse and move boxes, so they 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:26.480 decide they're gonna put remember that episode Boiled Down, so 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:30.759 they could move boxes to get to the troll. And 0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:34.319 everyone thought the big guy falling is really funny. So 0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:38.920 I just kept falling slipping and which means on a 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:44.680 concrete surface with oil, kneecap on concrete over and it's like, guys, 0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:50.080 I can't keep You've got to like, yeah, there has 0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:52.960 to be some other solution. We had a We had 0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:55.799 a similar thing on Parson Wreck, where Nick Offerman's character 0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:58.280 Ron Swanson was a sort of he was a little 0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:01.839 cartoonish in his abilities to do various things, and we 0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:03.680 wrote this joke where he wanted to get he was 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:06.920 eating a he got lunch and he was eating as hamburger, 0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:09.359 and and the joke was he wanted to get out 0:46:09.360 --> 0:46:11.240 of the lunch as quickly as possible, so when the script, 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:13.560 he shoved the entire hamburger into his mouth and ate 0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:16.400 it in one bite. So they Dean Holland was directing 0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:18.520 it and he was like okay action and Nick did 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:21.839 his best, but then Dean was like, you you really 0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:23.360 need to eat the whole thing in one bite, and 0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:26.800 he was like this is a like a half pound hamburger. Okay, 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:29.680 Like I maybe the character can do this, but a 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:34.560 human can't. And yeah, all right, yeah right, sorry, yeah, 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:40.000 you're not your character, right, Okay, I almost wiped out 0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:42.279 super hard on that moped. Like well, first of all, 0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:44.239 the joke was someone pulls up in the car. It 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:46.480 was the Garden Party episode. Someone pulls up in the 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.520 car night and I'm the valve most of the valet 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:49.960 and I get in and they're like, just get in 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.919 and tear off down this road, right, And the joke 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:55.160 at the time is why is most driving so fast 0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:58.560 and so insistent? And so I did, and like I 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:01.799 tore off down the road and I'm not a stunt driver. 0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:04.200 I don't know, like and suddenly I'm going sixty five 0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:07.400 on a dirt road and on a set and the 0:47:07.440 --> 0:47:10.319 back tires fish tail because it's a dirt road, and 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:14.080 I like slowed down and was like, oh right, I'm 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.880 not This isn't a no One's gonna like save me 0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:19.879 if I crashed this car, I'll die because I also 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:22.000 got in and didn't put my seatbelt on because the 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:24.520 joke was you get in and take off, and I 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:26.560 was like, oh my god, I just I forgot for 0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:28.920 a second that I'm not fictional. I'm like, sure, I'm 0:47:28.920 --> 0:47:35.319 not fictional. I'm a human could suffer consequences. Mine very 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:37.919 similar to that was I think it was when there's 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:41.640 the storyline of Dwight telling Holly that that Kevin is slow, 0:47:42.200 --> 0:47:44.920 and there was a scene we did a number of 0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:49.080 different ways. This didn't end up in but where I'm 0:47:49.160 --> 0:47:51.759 driving and she's like you're driving. You have a car, 0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:55.839 and I'm like, yeah, I have a car, And at 0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:59.080 one point they were like, okay, so do that, but 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:03.440 then get out of the car, but leave it running, 0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:07.719 like leave it, leave it like leave it, leave it 0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:10.200 in gear. So like as you step out, the car 0:48:10.280 --> 0:48:12.080 is going to move forward and then we'll have somebody 0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:16.360 else who can jump in and stop it. Yeah, I 0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:21.560 did ideas like profound Meanwhile, it's vedas car, right like 0:48:21.640 --> 0:48:26.399 her real car. I uh. That joke that they did 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:28.359 with Kevin in the later years where he didn't know 0:48:28.400 --> 0:48:33.920 the alphabet elemento. Paul pitshed that in season two and 0:48:33.960 --> 0:48:37.120 we were like, Paul, that's insane, Like you can't say 0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:39.319 that he doesn't know that he's an accountant. He's a 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.040 working accountant. Like he might not be the best accountant, 0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:45.480 he's an accountant. It made Paul laugh so hard. And 0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:49.040 the second that Paul took over the show, that joke aired, 0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:51.319 and I was like, well, that's what he got what 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:54.239 he wanted. Six years later, he told me it was 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:57.920 his favorite joke that he ever wrote. Yeah, yes, element 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:01.520 he told me and us that and and tried to 0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:03.319 get it into the show and like season two or 0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:06.880 three or something, and we're like, you know, there's crazy 0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:08.680 stuff like that. I mean, you know, again, this is 0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:11.040 a writer's room joke that no one would ever know. 0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:14.959 But what was Kevin's band going to be? And having 0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:18.799 it be the Police? This sounds like a you thing actually, 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:23.160 But the idea that I was a drummer lead singer 0:49:23.680 --> 0:49:27.880 of the police, and with the Police, the lyrics and 0:49:27.920 --> 0:49:31.120 the singing is off of the beat of the drums 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:34.440 because they had like rhythms. You would have to be 0:49:34.480 --> 0:49:39.000 a musical savant to be able to play drums and sing. Well, 0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:41.799 it wasn't the Police Originally it was Steve was Steve 0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:44.080 Miller band and they were called the Midnight Tookers. My 0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:47.760 friend scotts Olvery was in a Steve Miller cover band 0:49:47.760 --> 0:49:50.160 in high school called the Midnight Tookers. Scott's a writer, 0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:53.040 and I always thought that was the perfect amount of 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:56.239 stupid for a cover. But like Midnight Tookers is like, oh, 0:49:56.280 --> 0:49:58.080 what a great and so it's a Steve Miller band. 0:49:58.120 --> 0:50:00.319 And then they didn't give us the rights to the music, yes, 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:02.600 and so we had to change it. And so I 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:07.000 think Mindy maybe pitched Scrantnicity Mindy or Paul. But I 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.480 remember being so bummed out that it couldn't be the 0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:11.560 Midnight Pokers, just because I had really had my heart 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:15.720 set on it. I sang, we did the whole video, right, 0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:18.279 that's right, and we're trying to volume down because it 0:50:18.400 --> 0:50:22.319 was too like jet Airliner or whatever, remember what it was. 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:24.040 But yes, and maybe it was the Joker. I don't 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:27.480 know it was, yeah, right, But I'm happy at the 0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:29.799 end of the day, I'm happy that it was Scrantnicity. Yes, 0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:36.600 that was a good solution to that stupid problem. Um, okay, 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:39.160 you've given us so much time. Thank you so much, 0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:43.719 so really fun. I like walking down memory Lane. It's fun. Yeah, 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.919 it's such a I mean, it's just actually awesome to see. 0:50:48.000 --> 0:50:51.080 I know it's been too long, I know. And congratulations 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:55.200 on everything, and um, thank you so much, my pleasure, 0:51:07.360 --> 0:51:11.920 wow the things that could have been. Thank you Mike 0:51:12.560 --> 0:51:15.480 for coming back and sharing so much of your story 0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:18.680 with us. It was so great to have you and 0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:23.600 just so great to talk the office with you. And 0:51:23.680 --> 0:51:27.759 thank you all as always for listening week to week 0:51:28.040 --> 0:51:32.560 or day to day. Don't forget to come back next Tuesday, 0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:38.120 same time, same place, for another very special episode, because 0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:41.840 that day, next Tuesday, is the day that we, or 0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:45.560 at least I have been waiting for. It will finally 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:51.120 be here the launch of our brand spanking new book 0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:55.960 Next Tuesday. Head to Amazon dot Com, Barnes and Noble 0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:59.640 Books a million, wherever you get your books. Basically, go 0:51:59.800 --> 0:52:03.120 the pre order your very own copy of Welcome to 0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:06.319 dunder Mifflin, The Ultimate Oral History of the Office, and 0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:09.720 if you do, you could be reading it one week 0:52:09.920 --> 0:52:14.759 from today. Grab one for yourself, grab one for everyone 0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:17.880 that you know, because when it comes to a gift, 0:52:18.520 --> 0:52:23.399 you shouldn't have a hard time getting it in. That's 0:52:23.400 --> 0:52:26.560 what she said. Wait, no, you shouldn't have a hard 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:30.880 time getting it in time for the holidays or you know, 0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:34.680 any day, because every day is a holiday when you're 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:48.920 with me. Oh okay, have a great week everyone. The office. 0:52:48.960 --> 0:52:52.520 Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian 0:52:52.560 --> 0:52:57.440 bond Gartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer 0:52:57.600 --> 0:53:01.800 is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Is Hayes and Diego Tapia. 0:53:02.200 --> 0:53:05.239 My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our 0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:08.840 theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend 0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:28.800 Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Olandsky.