WEBVTT - S4: EP 4 — Shock to the Conscience 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.680 Hey guys. Before we get into the episode, a quick note. 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.360 We're looking for news stories of betrayal for our weekly 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:10.840 Betrayal series, which returns in August. If you've experienced betrayal 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.680 and feel ready to share your story, now is a 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.959 great time to reach out. Email us at Betrayal Pod 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:24.680 at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.960 She starts screaming and yelling at us, and we just 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.840 got up and started to walk away, and then as 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.559 we were walking out of their house, she's fallen behind us, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.720 and then she says, I'm going to ruin. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:37.519 Your fucking lives. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.560 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, Episode four, 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:07.480 Shock to the Conscience. In our last episode, we saw 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.399 Joel Kern's double life, a side by side comparison of 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.720 two different realities, but those two realities were on a 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:20.240 collision course because Joel's reckoning day at the Colorado Springs 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:25.839 Police Department was rapidly approaching. This was the day he'd 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.959 be forced to answer for his lies, and this time 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.520 it wouldn't be Caroline who was left in disbelief. It 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:37.000 would be Joel's coworkers, officers he'd worked closely with for 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.920 over two decades men. He graduated from the police academy 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:48.000 with men who'd been close friends and mentors. In March 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.680 twenty twenty two, Joel was under investigation at the CSPD 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.280 because a couple came in to file a complaint against him. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.360 The wife confessed to having sex with Joel in his 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.360 police car. He was making amends for her actions, and 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.920 part of that was alerting the department that one of 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:09.200 their officers was up to no good. So the department 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.799 launched an internal investigation and dug into the claims. Then 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.799 they called Joel in for his official interview with internal Affairs. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.880 He was even able to bring an attorney. His future 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:26.040 hinged on what happened in this meeting. We've got it 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:30.480 all on tape and we want you to hear it. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.280 Good to see you again. It's been a while, okay, Joe, 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.760 being in the form you've been up be here, so 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:38.720 I'll let you read that. 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.440 They start the interview by having Joel sign a garrity advisement. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.959 It's an acknowledgment that he's under investigation, it explains the process, 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:54.200 and most importantly, it requires him to answer truthfully. After 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.200 he signs this document. A lie could mean termination. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.639 Sir, Okay, we'll get started. It's Lieutenan ron Field Chancellor 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.160 with the Coloria Springs Police Department Internal Affairs Section. Today's Monday, 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.000 March twenty first, twenty twenty two. I'm an interviewing on 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.040 Lieutenant Joel Kern in regards to Internal Affairs case twenty two. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:16.560 That's zero two three. Also present are Lieutenant James Sokolick 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:21.400 and Lieutenant Kern's attorney, Joan John Newson. Joel, I know 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.680 you were a peer, so before going on the record 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.600 where you provided a tight garrity advicetment, I was did 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:28.799 you signed up voluntarily? 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:29.320 Yes? 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.680 Do you have any questions regarding the garrity advicement? 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:32.760 No? Okay. 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:35.760 Will you be answering all of our questions concerning this 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:37.600 matter truthfully today? 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:38.000 Yes? 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.880 You may remember in episode two, Joel's boss, Commander Strawsner, 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.000 reported a conversation he had with Joel where Joel denied 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.200 knowing the couple and was worried that someone was impersonating 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:56.480 him or filing a false complaint. Strawsner believed him. 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.400 This is now under garrity. This is your opportunity to 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.160 just let us know what happened. I don't want you 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.760 to feel tied to whatever you said to Strustner. Anything 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:09.080 that was said there is that good? Is that? Bear? 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.080 I'll tell you exactly what I told you. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.640 Okay, tell us why do you think those allegations against 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:18.920 you were brought forward? 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:25.080 I don't know why specifically these allegations were made, but 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:33.279 I have some ideas. I think maybe the the persons 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.919 making allegations got in over their head or something, and 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:42.480 I suspect that they're catfished me in whatever communication they 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:42.919 were having. 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.039 But before they got into that, Chancel wanted to focus 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:53.080 on the incident at Joel's house the day a stranger 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.000 showed up accusing Joel of having sex with his wife 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:57.800 and his police cruisers. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.359 My wife out there, the one that you thought in 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.880 your cruiser? What are you talking about that? 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.920 Joel wasn't aware that the man had secretly recorded the 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.320 entire encounter, and Joel didn't know that the man gave 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.960 the recording to the CSPD. Chanza gave Joel an opportunity 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.479 to recount what happened from his point of view, I 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:17.800 was just. 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.560 In shocked that someone was standing there saying this to me. 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.000 So I said, I don't know who you are, but 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.760 I'm not fucking your wife or anybody else's wife. 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.440 And he. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.279 Looked at me again and then he said, well, I 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.000 don't even really know if it's you, and if it's 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:43.320 not you, I'm really sorry. And I took pause for 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:47.400 a second because I'm like, you're coming to my house 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.880 banging on my front door, and then you dropped this 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.479 bomb on my household, and then you're going to say 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.039 that you don't even know if it's me. So I said, 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.080 you need to get the fuck off my property. I 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.039 walked onto the sidewalks so I could look in the 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.120 car just to see who this is. And when I 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.479 saw the person, I didn't recognize them at all. And 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.560 then she gets out of the car and then like 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.080 she's staring at me, and then she has these huge, 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.360 huge sunglasses on, like so huge I couldn't even see 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.600 her face really, but they weren't like total blackout, and 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.400 I could see through the sunglasses that looked like she 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.520 had like two black eyes, and she's crying. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.240 It seemed like Joel, in an effort to deflect the 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.600 attention off of his own actions, was slightly suggesting this 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:40.960 man was beating his wife. 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:47.440 And then this guy slams the back of their car 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.920 and says, is that him like screaming at her? And 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:57.479 she startles and she starts to cry even more, and 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.280 then she shakes her head yes, and then gets right 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:05.240 back into the car. And then he said, well, the 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:10.280 least that you can do is apologize for ruining my family. 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.960 And then so I started walking away and I said, 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.680 I have nothing to apologize for because I don't know you, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.000 I don't know your wife. I'm not fucking your wife. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.200 I'm not fucking anybody else. And then I just started 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.760 to walk back in my house and then they drove 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:26.560 away eventually. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.360 Okay, so you have never seen either one of them. 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:39.320 No going back to catfishing. You made a comment about 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.640 that at the beginning when we opened up. What does 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.040 that have to do with them coming to your front door? 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:54.480 And like two years ago there was a essentially like 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.920 a breakup of friendships with like four different couples. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.560 It seemed like Joel had come prepared with a backstory. 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.520 He says it all started at a dinner party that 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.520 he and Caroline attended. It was with a group of 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.640 couples an argument broke out. The couple hosting got into 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.160 it with Caroline and Joel. The wife in particular was enraged, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:18.880 so she. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.960 Starts screaming and yelling at us, and we just got 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.800 up and started to walk away, and then as we 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.400 were walking out of their house, she's fallen behind us, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.840 and then she says, I'm going to ruin your fucking lives. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.760 The story was over the top ridiculous. Even then it 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.480 got even stranger, Joel said. Another woman got pulled into 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.720 the conflict, and the two women teamed up to take 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:43.760 down the Kerns. 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.920 There was another couple who was friends with this lady 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.400 that said that she's gonna fucking. 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.040 Ruin my life or ruin our lives. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.360 And she, when we were all friends, used to brag 0:08:54.400 --> 0:09:00.079 about how she would make fake social media accounts and 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.839 then converse with people using the fake account. Her idea 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.520 of fun was to impersonate a friend of a person 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.160 that they already have on Facebook, and then she would 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.040 start conversing with him on the instant messaging. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.240 Chanza asked more questions about the women Joel believed targeted 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.400 his family, but eventually they got to the heart of 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:22.839 the matter. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.480 Have you ever had any kind of sexual contact insite 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.040 your city, a scign take on vehicle? 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:28.320 No? 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.960 Have you ever had any sexual contact with anyone while 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:37.760 on duty? No? Okay, so the allegations that are being 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.640 brought against you are absolutely not true. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:40.880 No. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.160 Chanza then showed Joel a photograph of a woman. It 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.360 was not the woman who filed the complaint, it was 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:50.000 someone else. 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:51.880 Have you ever met this lady? 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:53.360 No? 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:58.120 No. Have you ever uploaded WhatsApp on your work cell 0:09:58.120 --> 0:09:58.679 phone number? 0:09:58.800 --> 0:09:58.839 No? 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.400 Obviously you're aware we took your phone, and, as you 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:09.920 may imagine, we dumped your laptop. What if I were 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.959 to tell you that you did communicate with someone directing 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:13.880 them to go to WhatsApp? 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:27.079 With that, refresher memory? 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.960 Lieutenant Chanza began to lay out the evidence they collected. Immediately, 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:47.439 Joel's tone shifted, so did his story. These guys worked 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.679 with Joel for years. This was the last situation they 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:51.560 wanted to be in. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.320 Obviously, you're aware we took your phone, and, as you 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.839 may imagine, we dumped your flaptop. What if I were 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.920 to tell you that you did communicate with someone directing 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:04.840 them to go to WhatsApp? 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.720 With that, refresh your memory? 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:08.480 Now? 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:13.120 I don't remember in what context you said that her names? 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:18.800 What would to help you if batold you she has 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.880 a Denver number? 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:31.440 Yeah? I met her at a brew function. I'm sorry 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.280 to what a brewery function like a beer function? 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:35.880 Can you describe that? 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.800 FORCE just met her. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:44.640 Through there and then we started talking and then share 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:48.200 common interests and became friends. But I just know her 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.880 as her first name. I don't know her last name 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.120 or anything like that. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:58.120 Well, you recognize the pictures, right, Yeah? Now I do? Yep, Julie. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:11:58.920 You know how that's looking? 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:05.960 Right? Is this the person making allegations? We'll get to. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:10.480 That, But I mean, if we're trying to establish credibility veracity, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:12.840 I'm showing you a picture, I'm giving you a chance 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.520 to take a look at it, and you're telling me 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.640 to my face that you don't recognize them. 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.480 Well, I was mistaken. I apologize for that. 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.000 I recognized her because I just met her at the 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:28.559 prow functions. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.880 But that's it. 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:33.920 The woman in the photo was the same woman we 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.360 heard from in an earlier episode. We're not using her 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.200 name here. She was the one Joel had sex with 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.280 in the parking lot of a sporting good store. The 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.120 one Joel was texting when he said, there's been some 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.400 drama and I deleted everything. The CSPD had copies of 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:51.080 their messages. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.920 You don't have any kind of leather relationship with her? No. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.360 Have you communicated with her through WhatsApp? 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:04.079 Yes, just as friends talking through that about different things, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.400 but that's it. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.560 Do you have a romantic relationship with her, Joel. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:15.920 I do not. Would she say differently, I don't know. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.440 I don't have a romantic relationship with her. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:20.600 You've been intimate with her? 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:21.360 No? 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.280 When I say intimate, I'll be very brontu belueal. So 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:25.960 we don't have any to have you even the physically 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.800 intimate or had sex with her. 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.960 Before Joel could say anything, so Glik decided to lay 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.480 it all out there. He was done with Joel's denial. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.680 Before you answer that could of pausing I want to say, 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:40.720 is I want to make sure it's very clear that 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.720 the internal affairs detectives are in Denver right now to 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:43.960 contact or during this meeting. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:46.840 So this should be a really easy question, Joel. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:48.760 We're another hear to tricky Joe. This is whe're trying 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.640 to get to the bottom of this. I mean, do 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:51.520 you know both of us. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.040 So I think let me stop things for a second here. Okay, 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:57.760 I really want to clear I know you're talking about 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.840 catfish all this. That is not the allegation. The allegation, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.200 you very clear is you had sex with this person, 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.040 not that she talked to you about having sex. That 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.760 you have had sex with this person in your department vehicle. 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.640 That's not a catfishing situation. It's a very serious allegation. 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.839 And it's not like a misunderstanding. I'm talking to the 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.839 wrong person online. This person's identifying that they had sex 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.760 with you, Joel Kern in your department car, and I'll 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:22.960 be honest that it doesn't sound as you being a 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.080 one hundred percent honest to your Joel. So we're asking 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.200 again real quick understanding. The detectors are out there to 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.200 talking to her right now. Have you in physically intimate 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:32.200 with this individual? 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:32.920 Yes? 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:36.080 Did you have sex with them? 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:36.760 Yes? 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.000 Did that occur inside the department vehicle? 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:39.760 No? 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:41.240 Did it occur on duty? 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.640 No? I mean I guess it could have. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.520 Are you familiar with fat Life. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.200 I've heard of it, but yeah, bet life is a 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.680 cank and fetish social networking website. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:56.200 Did you meet her through fat Life. 0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.200 I can't remember if I did or not. 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.840 You have a fat life account? Did you have a 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:02.680 fat Life account? 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:02.960 No? 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.720 Okay, So in order to go through fat Life, you 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.800 have to have an account in order to have those 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.760 conversations back and forth or do dms of that kind 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.880 of stuff. So how would you have met her potentially 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.560 there if you do have an account of that life. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.360 I don't remember how I met her exactly. It's been 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:20.760 a few years. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:22.920 So we're not gonna let's just give them this one. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.720 You just said I might have. So clearly you have 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.400 been on fed life. Can we establish that. 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:33.520 I looked at it. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.840 Yes, But and what Jimmy just said is that you 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:42.440 cannot get on there without having an account. We've tested 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:43.000 all this out. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:48.160 Hm, I deleted I had an account, and then I 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.560 deleted it when I was trying to get my life 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:53.200 back on track. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.160 Okay, that's a step in our direction. So you had 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.280 an account, but you don't know if you've met her 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:01.480 through that life. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.240 I think I think I did. Yeah, but it wasn't. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:10.520 You're painting it out to be. 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.200 Passing judgment, Joe. I'll stop you there. We're not. We're 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.000 giving you an opportunity. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.120 To talk to us. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.520 All we're trying to establish is that you violate policy, 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.040 and if you did, obviously we have to be held accountable. 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.600 Period I mean, that's it. We're not here to pass judgment. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:39.080 So there's periods in my marriage and home life that 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:44.200 were bad and then you know, I met her and 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.640 talked to her and then we just became fast friends. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.160 But to the question of violating policy and. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:57.240 All that, okay, but you said that possibly you met 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.760 her while you were on duty. You were coming back 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:04.160 from Denver when you went to this trip that you're 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.680 thinking about where you're driving your take home vehicle. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.119 Yes, okay, So how does that happen? 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:12.320 How do you meet her? 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.560 You said you went to a brewery. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:21.560 It was coming back from a training and then she 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:26.840 suggested that we meet, and then so we met on 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.920 the way back, and then coming back, we just. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.359 Met at the I forget the name of the store. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.679 Is an outdoor store like around Lincoln and by twenty 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.120 five okay. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:45.560 And then where do you guys go and have intimate relationships. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.119 Well, she came over into my car and then we 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.240 just talked and everything, and then kissed. 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.280 A part of the car front passenger. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.360 Seat, any other area of the car she might have been. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.920 And I'm sure you can probably guess where we're going 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.119 with this. We obviously took the car, we had the 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:22.959 lab search it and do what they do. Would there 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.520 be any chance for her DNA to be in the 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:26.359 back of that car? 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.000 Oh, sure, she's in the car. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.959 Or so, Joel, is your name besides kiss? 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:43.600 Well, this is all very embarrassing and humiliating, but yeah, 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:44.639 we had sex. 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:52.160 Whereabouts in the car, in the in the back only 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:52.720 the one time. 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:59.800 Okay, Joel admitted to certain details, but when and only 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.480 then he realized they already knew it. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.360 So the picture that we're getting, Joel, is that there 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.440 might be more than one person, And so we want 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.600 you to think about it. Pause, if you need to 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.800 take a break, if you need to use the restroom, 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.920 get some water, and then we can talk about that 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:20.680 when we get back. 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.919 They took a break, and when they returned, Chanza and 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.640 so Click continued their questioning, did. 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.840 You have conversations during that light I don't know her name. 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.560 Or who she is or anything like that, but yeah, 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:39.919 I think you had conversations or I did have conversations 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.200 with her flight did. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.000 You arrange per the download to what's appen so you 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.040 guys can have conversations privately on your phone. 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:48.800 Yes. 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.000 Did you arrange to meet her at a oil park? Yes, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.600 then basically you had sex with her at a oil park. 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.879 Didn't have sex, there's no penetration. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.679 So that was oral sexallently. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:00.399 Yes. 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.000 Juel is treading carefully here, because admitting to having sex 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.159 in public is not only admitting to a violation of 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.640 his duty, but a violation of the law. 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.439 During this conversation, said when you arranged that, basically she 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.440 is submissive and you were dominant. She says you struck 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.119 her several times, leading bruises. I will say before in 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.760 front of our two. She says this was a consensual accounter. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.160 She is not alleging a sexual assault. 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.840 And remember you're within the confines of garrety. 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.000 Remember the garrity advisement is a warning given to police 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:39.200 officers during an internal investigation. The individual signing this advisement 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.919 is declaring that they will tell the truth. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.359 This is not having to do anything to do with 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.160 a criminal investigation. I'm just trying to lock in her statement. 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.680 She said you left bruses, physically struck her, pull her hair, 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:55.080 that type of thing. No, okay, So obviously at some 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.680 point in time after this takes place, you break. 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:02.920 Contact with her. Yes, yes, you have any further contact 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:03.399 with her. 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.719 Just here there afterwards, but nothing what is here and there? 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:15.600 Mean just texting a little bit on the app, but 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.240 no physical meetings at westoever. 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:21.280 So when her husband showed up, you know what he 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:21.960 was talking about? 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:24.840 You know who I am? 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.880 No, guess my wife felt there when that you're talking 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.680 your cruiser. What are you talking about? 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:40.440 Well, yeah, but again I didn't have sex with her, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:47.400 as in you know, sexual intercourse or anything like that. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.040 So but yeah, I had an idea. 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:53.520 Did you recognize her that day? 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:55.080 Vaguely? 0:21:55.280 --> 0:22:00.640 Yes, So just to clarify the make sure that I'm 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.160 showing you here, Joe ass the lady that was there 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.639 that day in front of your house. 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:06.080 Yes. 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:11.200 Then the investigators turned to an important element in this case. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.200 They have a selfie. Joel sent to this woman, a 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.880 photo where he's wearing his police uniform. You can clearly 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:22.119 see his badge on his chest, and the investigators needed 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:24.800 to know why. What was Joel's intention? 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:32.439 You sent a picture of yourself to the complainant in 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:38.040 this case, the person that you met at Memorial Park. Yes, okay, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:44.320 four you in uniform, can't remember? Did you identify yourself 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:45.840 as a police officer to this person? 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:48.760 And after some time after we were talking to me, is. 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:49.960 Why did you do that? 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.440 Because she said that she works in law. 0:22:55.960 --> 0:23:01.159 And the intent was a developing friendships and all that 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:02.879 and having friendships. So it's just more of like a 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:03.480 getting to know. 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.720 The information we received is that she was nervous. Is 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:10.040 that why you sent a picture of yourself or is 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.480 that why you identified yourself as a police officer to 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.080 now make her feel more comfortable? 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.560 No, absolutely not, But you. 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:21.440