1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:13,440
Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,

2
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all

3
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best

4
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,919
Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard

5
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more

6
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit

7
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While

8
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast,

9
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,240
Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship

10
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so

11
00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: much for joining me for session one oh three of

12
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 1: the Arapy for Black Girls Podcast. In today's episode, we'll

13
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 1: be chatting with Dr Magdala Sherry about how you can

14
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,839
Speaker 1: partner with your primary care physician for better health outcomes.

15
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:17,000
Speaker 1: But first, a quick word about our sponsor. This week's

16
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 1: episode is sponsored by Natural Sious. Natural Sious is the

17
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,040
Speaker 1: world's first vegan, high performance hair care line that delivers

18
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,320
Speaker 1: the results of twelve products and only three. It's designed

19
00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 1: to reduce time spent on hair care and it's proven

20
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,440
Speaker 1: to save up to eighty percent of time on wash day.

21
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 1: Natural is Sious was founded by innovator Gwen Jamir, who

22
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 1: was the first and only African American woman to hold

23
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 1: a patent on a natural hair care product. These products

24
00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 1: are great specifically for busy women with curly and coily

25
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: hair also known as foresea hair, and they are all natural.

26
00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:01,560
Speaker 1: Their sulfate, parabin mineral oil, petroleum, glute and cruelty free.

27
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 1: I've been using the products on my hair for the

28
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: past two months and I am officially sold. I'm currently

29
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,240
Speaker 1: rocking a week old twist style that is everything. I

30
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 1: actually shared a picture of it yesterday on Instagram, so

31
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,639
Speaker 1: you can go to my page at Hello Doctor Joy

32
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 1: and see it in action. The products have really been

33
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 1: a game changer for me. They leave my hair entangled

34
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 1: after washing, shiny and super moisturized. The first step in

35
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: the process is a Moroccan Ussele five and one clay

36
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,600
Speaker 1: treatment that is your shampoo conditioner, deep conditioner, and detangler

37
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 1: all in one. Step two is a moisturizing cream you

38
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: can use the style your hair, and step three is

39
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 1: the Divine Shine moisture lock and frieze Fighter. These products

40
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 1: all work beautifully together and take far less time for

41
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 1: me to do my hair than any process I've ever

42
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,799
Speaker 1: used before. Their complete lifesaver. So if you want to

43
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: cut down on the amount of products you use and

44
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 1: get some time back in your busy schedule, then I

45
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 1: highly recommend you try them. You can find the Naturalicious

46
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 1: products in over twelve hundred family stores nationwide, or you

47
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 1: can buy them online at natural sious dot net. And

48
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 1: just for y'all, because I know many of you are

49
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,919
Speaker 1: itching to try them, we have a ten percent off

50
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 1: promo codes so you can go ahead and get your

51
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,239
Speaker 1: life together with these products. Use the promo code and

52
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,640
Speaker 1: natural sious dot net and enter the code joy at

53
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,280
Speaker 1: checkout to get ten percent off. Now let's get back

54
00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 1: to our episode. For this conversation, I was joined by

55
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 1: Dr Magdalens Sherry, who is a boy certified internal medicine physician,

56
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 1: motivational speaker, and health policy enthusiast. Dr Sherry currently practices

57
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 1: as a primary care general internist and Assistant professor at

58
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 1: Rowan Medicine in New Jersey, serving the South Jersey and

59
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 1: Greater Philadelphia community. Her career focuses include women's health, lifestyle,

60
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: behavioral coaching for chronic diseases, and addressing health disparities. And

61
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 1: vulnerable populations. Dr Sherry and I discussed how primary care

62
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,040
Speaker 1: physicians are involved in screening for mental health concerns, how

63
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: they collaborate and refer to mental health professionals, how you

64
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,599
Speaker 1: can better advocate for yourself with physicians, and she shared

65
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,719
Speaker 1: her thoughts on what PCPs need to do to ensure

66
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 1: better health outcomes for black women. If you hear anything

67
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: while listening that resonates with you, please share with us

68
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag tv G in Session.

69
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today,

70
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,359
Speaker 1: Dr Sherry, Thank you. I'm excited. I'm very happy to

71
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,240
Speaker 1: have you here. As therapists, we typically do lots of

72
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:50,279
Speaker 1: collaborations with you know, primary care physicians and other health professionals,

73
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,640
Speaker 1: all in the name of making sure that we're treating

74
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 1: our clients well. So I'm very happy to have you

75
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 1: here to hear from the physician side about like what

76
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,600
Speaker 1: that collaboration looks like and what kinds of things are

77
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 1: happening in your office. Is to make sure that we

78
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 1: are helping our clients tend to their mental health. Absolutely absolutely, yeah.

79
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,920
Speaker 1: So can you tell me about some of the things

80
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 1: that you may have in place in your practice or

81
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: that may be kind of commonplace for positions in terms

82
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: of helping to screen them for any mental health concerns.

83
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 1: What is typically done in the primary care office, you know,

84
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 1: when you're coming in for your annual exam or getting

85
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 1: your check in is what we will call for our

86
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 1: preventative guidelines, which a lot of times we use the

87
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 1: US Preventative Tax Force to kind of tell us, hey,

88
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 1: what should gonna be checking for. And that's in regards

89
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,360
Speaker 1: to you know, your typical things like hypertension, diabetes, hype cholesterol,

90
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 1: but we also have some guidelines when it comes to

91
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 1: mental health, one of the big ones being depression. It

92
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 1: is advised that we do screen everyone, in particular women

93
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,120
Speaker 1: who are pregnant. Who screen our questions which we call

94
00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 1: the PHDU two, which ends up falling over if that's

95
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 1: pause stive to the PHQ nine. And this is important

96
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: because I think sometimes when patients come in and we

97
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 1: ask these questions, they get a little apprehensive, like why

98
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 1: do you want to know that? So the first question

99
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,719
Speaker 1: you typically ask is have you lost interest in doing

100
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 1: things and things that you love and things like that,

101
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,160
Speaker 1: or have you felt depressed, lonely? Of that sport, and

102
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,359
Speaker 1: if you don't have a good relationship with your doctor,

103
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: you may quickly say no, or you may overlook and say, yeah,

104
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 1: everything's been fine. But that's what we need to start

105
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: screening and say, hey, could this person in front of

106
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 1: me have something else or have some underlying major depressive

107
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 1: disorder or something going on. So I really wanted to

108
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,719
Speaker 1: bring that up. So when patients here's something along those

109
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 1: lines that the doctors asking them that they should try

110
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,159
Speaker 1: to answer as you know, honestly as possible. Now for

111
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,680
Speaker 1: people who already have a diagnosis of depression, so let's

112
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 1: just say you established with me, you came in, you

113
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 1: already told me, and you're actually on treatment. The big

114
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: thing for us is we monitor you along the way

115
00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,919
Speaker 1: because we recognize that a lot of times when the

116
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,320
Speaker 1: mental health, whatever you're going through is ignored, that can

117
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 1: actually fill into your clinical health. So your blood pressure

118
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,159
Speaker 1: might not be controlled, you know, your diabetes is not

119
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 1: where we want it to be, or you're gaining weight

120
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: and you're heading towards obesity. So a lot of times

121
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 1: it's back and forth. You may come in for something

122
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 1: medically related or a symptom, and after we ask for questions,

123
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: we have to take a step back and say, are

124
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 1: we missing something and something else going on that's complicating

125
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 1: the picture? Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, but

126
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 1: I can share it because I am curious about, like

127
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: what kinds of things a client might say that may

128
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,920
Speaker 1: make you think, oh, this may have more of a

129
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 1: mental health land than a physical slant, because I think,

130
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: especially for black women, sometimes the symptoms will present physically

131
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 1: before they will recognize that it is actually a mental

132
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,720
Speaker 1: health kind of a thing. So what kinds of things

133
00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 1: might they say that would tip you off that this

134
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,000
Speaker 1: may actually be like a mental health issue? Great question.

135
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 1: So one thing is the person who's coming in for

136
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 1: frequent visits and you know you've done the work up

137
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 1: a um and some of the common complaints you get

138
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 1: is abdominal pain. That is a huge somatic complaint, how

139
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 1: we call it something that's physical that tends to be

140
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,280
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot of psycho social is involved. And you

141
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: do the food work up for the addonnald pain. You've

142
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 1: gotten blood work, you've gotten imaging testing and there everything

143
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 1: is negative. But this person is coming in like I

144
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: still have it. Another good big one is headaches, headache,

145
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 1: tends to be a big one that people come in

146
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 1: for and you know, you make sure they're not dehydrated,

147
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,920
Speaker 1: and you know, make sure the blood pressure is okay.

148
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 1: But as you work up everything that's not going away,

149
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 1: and then the timing of the symptoms too, So sometimes

150
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,839
Speaker 1: people have symptoms only at particular times. It's always when

151
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 1: they're going home or always when they're going to work.

152
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 1: So you kind of as you're asking more questions and

153
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 1: getting more details to make sure you're not missing something medical,

154
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 1: you start to kind of get the antenna's go up.

155
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 1: And then another big one is fatique. So really it

156
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,360
Speaker 1: can present it as anything, but it's really as we

157
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: ask more questions and we start to see a pattern,

158
00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: or we see a person that's frequently coming in to

159
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 1: see us and there not really satisfied with any medical answer,

160
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 1: or they're saying they've tried it per se and it's

161
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 1: not improving, that we start to say, you know what,

162
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 1: let's take a step back, let's find out about more

163
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 1: what's going on at home they're living with the dynamic,

164
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: what's happening at work. That's a big one that I get.

165
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 1: And you find out people are you know, either they've

166
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 1: on the bridge of being laid off for their pay

167
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: cup has been decreased, or other factors, lots of stretch

168
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: at work, and you're like, now it's just starting to

169
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 1: make sense. Yeah, And I think it's encouraging to hear

170
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: you say that you kind of spend this kind of

171
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,120
Speaker 1: time with your patients to ask these questions. But I'm

172
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,440
Speaker 1: also aware that lots of people, you know, one of

173
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,959
Speaker 1: their frequent complaints you hear about, like your primary care doctors, like, oh,

174
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 1: they don't spend any time with me, or you know,

175
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,840
Speaker 1: they don't ask a whole bunch of questions. So in

176
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 1: what kinds of ways can primary care doctors maybe do

177
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,760
Speaker 1: a better job of being more thoughtful in asking these

178
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,520
Speaker 1: kinds of questions, because it sounds like you spend a

179
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: lot of time like getting this bad ground information. Yes,

180
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 1: so this is true, and I get the same complaints

181
00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 1: very often. I do believe that patients and people in

182
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 1: general need to be very proactive about the doctor they choose. So,

183
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,079
Speaker 1: and what I mean by proactive, you know, if you

184
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 1: feel like you're going to talk better with a woman,

185
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 1: then your doctor should be a woman, right, If you

186
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 1: think that you'll have a better connection especially for people

187
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,839
Speaker 1: of color. To have a doctor who's a person of color,

188
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 1: then you should actually seek that. You should ask friends

189
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,680
Speaker 1: and family to say, Hey, what doctor do you go to?

190
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 1: How do you feel about them? You know, I'm looking

191
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: to a stablish care. I know the barrier will be

192
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: insurance and cost or even distance, but I think, just

193
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,079
Speaker 1: like we proactive or everything in life, I think that's

194
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 1: the first step. So I work at an academic institution,

195
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: so I have a lot of medical students and residents

196
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: who will follow me, and a lot of times I

197
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 1: send them in the room first to go see a patient,

198
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:41,920
Speaker 1: and then they'll come back. I guess she wasn't really

199
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 1: talking to me, or she wasn't really giving any much information,

200
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, maybe something else going on.

201
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,439
Speaker 1: And then I'll go into the room and before they

202
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 1: even open their mouth, I'm like, mhm, sums up, what's

203
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,559
Speaker 1: happening here? And We'll end up talking and then I'll

204
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 1: get more information. And every time my resident or my

205
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,760
Speaker 1: medical student says, how did you do that? Like how

206
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,680
Speaker 1: did you figure that out? And I said, because we

207
00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 1: have a rapport, So that first visit when they come

208
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,199
Speaker 1: in and established care with me, you know, I spent

209
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 1: a little bit more time digging into their history, in

210
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 1: their background or just as time has gone on, and

211
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: I've seen them several times. I've seen them in happy

212
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: moments and low moments, and I really pushed them to

213
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 1: tell me what's happening in their life. So even before

214
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 1: I even utter a word, when I walk in, you

215
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 1: can pick up that dynamic and a lot of times

216
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 1: it's what doctors do. We may not see anything, but

217
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 1: we're watching you. The posture, how you're talking to us

218
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,600
Speaker 1: is anything different from before. So I think this is

219
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 1: really hard to do in primary care these days because

220
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,000
Speaker 1: what people don't know is that we're looked at, you know,

221
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 1: in regards to productivity, how many people we can see,

222
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,200
Speaker 1: you know, how much time we spend. So yeah, this

223
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 1: is very difficult. But I think if you can bridge

224
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,559
Speaker 1: the barrier and getting a doctor you feel comfortable with

225
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,839
Speaker 1: that you've been proactive about seeking, and then sell them

226
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,480
Speaker 1: up front. I had one woman say to me, so, yeah,

227
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm establishing here because I wasn't really happy with my

228
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,160
Speaker 1: last doctor and I want a doctor who's gonna partner

229
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: with me. And I paused and I asked. I was like, oh, Okay,

230
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: explain that to me, and she said, I want to

231
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,200
Speaker 1: make sure I'm hurt, and I want to make sure

232
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,199
Speaker 1: that we have a rapport. So I feel comfortable with

233
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 1: telling you what's going on in my life because I

234
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: understand that that can play a part and how my

235
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 1: health looks. So again, it took me listening because I

236
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 1: really had to stop typing. And that's the hard part

237
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 1: to the primary characters just end up typing out a

238
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 1: computer and I had to say, wait, wait, what does

239
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 1: that mean? What are you looking for? So that could

240
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 1: be something too when people are going in and they're

241
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,520
Speaker 1: seeing patients or doctors are there to say, you know what,

242
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,160
Speaker 1: what are you looking for? You're coming to see me,

243
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,240
Speaker 1: your establishing care where you haven't been here in a while.

244
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: Where do I work with you to get to where

245
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,839
Speaker 1: we need to be together? And so you know, when

246
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,679
Speaker 1: you're doing all of this groundwork as a great primary

247
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 1: care doctor, I think the tendency can be then, of course,

248
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 1: for your patients to want to come to you for

249
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,520
Speaker 1: everything right, And so even if they have a hunch

250
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 1: that it is more of a mental health of concern,

251
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,560
Speaker 1: because they feel comfortable with you, you are likely going

252
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: to be the first person that they go to. UM.

253
00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 1: So can you tell me a little bit about the

254
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 1: says because I do know that some primary care doctors

255
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,559
Speaker 1: feel comfortable like prescribing, you know, for prescribing medication for

256
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,480
Speaker 1: something like anxiety and depression or something else. So can

257
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about what that process

258
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,600
Speaker 1: might be like, like how comfortable typically or primary care

259
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 1: doctors like managing mental health issues A great question. So

260
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 1: for our training, things like depression, anxiety, that's probably the

261
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,520
Speaker 1: big ones that we typically do. Or when we're talking

262
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 1: about anxiety, not just generalized anxiety, but you know, temper

263
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,839
Speaker 1: anxiety or work stress and things like that we are

264
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 1: able to manage, whether that's through counseling in our office

265
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 1: or adding medication. The problem is the time, right, So

266
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,560
Speaker 1: a lot of times what I find is the big

267
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: issue is you've gone through all the chronic care stuff,

268
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,959
Speaker 1: the hypertension stuff, the diabetes stuff, the annual visit, making

269
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,960
Speaker 1: sure you've got all your vaccines, all that good stuff,

270
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,679
Speaker 1: and literally right about the time you're about to turn

271
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,079
Speaker 1: the doorn off and say hey, I'll see you in

272
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 1: six months, the patient will say, oh yeah, and work

273
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,400
Speaker 1: as E been killing me? And I really feel like

274
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm anxious, So it's almost an after start, and that's

275
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 1: sometimes what makes it very difficult for the primary care

276
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,720
Speaker 1: doctor to spend that time. So what I always encourage

277
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 1: patients to do is, if you think this is related

278
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,360
Speaker 1: to your mental health and you make that appointment, say that.

279
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 1: So say you know, I'm I've been really anxious, just

280
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: like you would say I have abdonald pain. I kind

281
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,800
Speaker 1: of feel it's important to empower patients to say, hey,

282
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 1: I don't like my mood, I don't feel comfortable, or

283
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 1: make that very clear when you're making the appointment, or

284
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,880
Speaker 1: even as you see you know, the m A or

285
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,120
Speaker 1: the nurse who comes in before the doctor does. So

286
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 1: I think that's huge because you know, when we're talking

287
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 1: about the primary care doctor. Yes, a lot of times

288
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 1: they come to us because they're comfortable, but we also

289
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 1: have to assess is this person's table. So do I

290
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 1: have time to say, you know what, I'm gonna start

291
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 1: you on meds because that takes a few weeks to start,

292
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: or do I say, you know what, I need help now?

293
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 1: And that help could look like crisis, you know, right

294
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 1: on the phone, right in the office, or it could

295
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 1: look like I send you right directly to the e

296
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 1: D to the hospital and let them know you're coming,

297
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: or can mean, you know what, while I'm in my office,

298
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 1: if I can, I look for resources and try to

299
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,720
Speaker 1: get you into a therapist office as soon as possible.

300
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840
Speaker 1: So for us, our primary thing is let's just make

301
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: sure this person is out harm to themselves and a

302
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: harm to others. And do we have to intervene at

303
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: that point to make sure you know they're cared for?

304
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 1: And then you know, based on that, we look at, Okay,

305
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 1: is this related to job? Do they have to take

306
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 1: time off? Which is a big thing that you know

307
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 1: your primary care doctor can help you with. But saying,

308
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 1: you know what, I need some time off because I

309
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 1: really can't get a handle on how I'm feeling or

310
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: my mental disease, and even just to have time to

311
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, go see a therapist consistently. So you know,

312
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 1: there's many ways that we're triaging and trying to figure

313
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,800
Speaker 1: out what is this person in front of me need.

314
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 1: But the big thing is I gotta make sure you're

315
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,760
Speaker 1: safe and want to make sure you're safe. I say, okay,

316
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 1: so what can I do at this point before I

317
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: plug you into other services that may be necessary for you.

318
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 1: Got it, And I appreciate you sharing that, actually sharing

319
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 1: because I think sometimes people don't necessarily have the language

320
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 1: for what's going on with them, right. You just know

321
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 1: something is off. You know, my move feels kind of

322
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: funky or whatever. But even if you say that on

323
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 1: the phone, then your primary care doctor then knows to

324
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 1: like ask more questions about that. So you don't have

325
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 1: to know exactly what's happening, but if you can kind

326
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 1: of give them a hands up there's something's going on,

327
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 1: then they can kind of ask questions to get at

328
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: the right direction. Yes, exactly, and even if you don't

329
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 1: come in just saying that and leaving a message for

330
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: the doctor. A lot of offices also have UM online

331
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: portals now where you can communicate with the doctor electronically,

332
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 1: So maybe you feel more comfortable, like you know, you're

333
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,480
Speaker 1: still in the process of articulating your feelings, right because

334
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 1: we know there's so much taboo around saying I'm depressed,

335
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm anxious, I need help in that regard, So maybe

336
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 1: you send a message to the doctor and say, you know,

337
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: I don't like how I've been feeling, and the doctor

338
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 1: can even just call you, make sure everything is good

339
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 1: and that this is not something that warrants you go

340
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: into the emergency room. But then can also make that

341
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 1: appointment for you, and maybe they know that you're very

342
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, nervous about sharing that they can make their

343
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: own dialogue and then in the visit saying, you know,

344
00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 1: give me a little bit more time with this person.

345
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 1: It's a little are small they're gonna need. So you've

346
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 1: already said doctor Sherry that sometimes you will make the

347
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 1: assessment like, Okay, this maybe feels like a case that

348
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 1: is more than I can manage. Maybe I need to

349
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 1: make a referral to a therapist or a psychi interests

350
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 1: in someone else? Can you tell us what that? Then

351
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,360
Speaker 1: collaboration process looks like between like yourself and the therapist

352
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 1: when you have a patient who is seeing both of you.

353
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 1: Great question, And to be honest, I don't think this

354
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,359
Speaker 1: is done as well as it should be because a

355
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,679
Speaker 1: lot of the big hurdles that I face in my

356
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 1: practice is knowing what therapists it's covered under someone's insurance.

357
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: So a lot of times in the office I don't

358
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,120
Speaker 1: really have that answer. So I'm giving them resources more

359
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,119
Speaker 1: so to find someone and then making them follow up

360
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,120
Speaker 1: so that I can have a check and balances, like, hey,

361
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, since more weeks, did you talk to anybody?

362
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: Did you call anybody? But to say that there's a

363
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,320
Speaker 1: direct collaboration where I can say, Hey, I know you're

364
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 1: seeing one of my patients. You know, can you tell

365
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 1: me what you think? I can't honestly say that I

366
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,919
Speaker 1: do that often, so I will say sometimes with a psychiatrist,

367
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot of confidentiality there. If I'm really concerned

368
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,199
Speaker 1: about the patient not really adhering to their medications, but

369
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 1: they're telling me they're seeing a psychiatrist and the counseling

370
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 1: that's associed with the office. There's a special records release

371
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 1: that a lot of officers will have that you know,

372
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: talks about how sensitive that information is and asking the

373
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: patients to allow me to be able to view that.

374
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: And I have a few patients that I've done that for,

375
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 1: especially when I'm really concern like if she's really taking

376
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,080
Speaker 1: on her man. She's telling me she's reporting this to me,

377
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: but I'm not really certain because the way, you know,

378
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,399
Speaker 1: some some of the symptoms are really in between for me,

379
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: and I really can't gauge, So that's when I was

380
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 1: stopping there. In regards to, you know, connecting with the therapist,

381
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 1: a lot of times what I mainly do is say,

382
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, have you seen someone you know? Is it

383
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: covered by the insurance? I do like to make sure

384
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,160
Speaker 1: financially that's an okay issue for them because it's really

385
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 1: would be horrible for someone to plug in with someone

386
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 1: and have a good rapport but then can't afford it.

387
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 1: And a lot of times, you know, once someone tries

388
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 1: a therapist, if it doesn't go well for whatever reason,

389
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 1: it's just some down from trying to go again. That's

390
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: why I kind of like to make sure you're comfortable.

391
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 1: Can you afford it? Have you guys talked about a plan?

392
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 1: Because I want to make sure that I encourage them

393
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 1: and give them some affirmation in the room as to yes,

394
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 1: it may not be the best one right now, but hey,

395
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: let's try again because this is really going to help you.

396
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 1: So asking those questions and sometimes they say, you know,

397
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 1: do you want me to reach out for them? You know,

398
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 1: I might not be able to get much information, but

399
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 1: would you like me to. Most times patients are feeling

400
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: pretty good once they get a few sessions in but

401
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: they don't feel like they need me to talk to them.

402
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,720
Speaker 1: And I can already see, like, you know, now they're

403
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 1: back on track with their health, they're eating right, they

404
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 1: just have a better mood in the office, And that

405
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 1: in itself is good for me to know. And I

406
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 1: usually just ask, you know, how frequently are you seeing

407
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: them and and things like that. Yeah, And I do

408
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 1: know that some therapists will get the release from the

409
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 1: client and then send the primary care doctor like maybe

410
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 1: a little right up every month just saying like, oh,

411
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 1: they've been keeping their appointments, this is what we've been

412
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: working on, you know, just so that the primary care

413
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: doctor is kept in the loop about what's happening. Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah.

414
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 1: Are there ways that you can think of that maybe

415
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: both primary care doctors and therapists could do a better

416
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 1: job of like making sure that we are kind of

417
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: working as a treatment team in the best interests of

418
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: the client. I think there needs to be more collaboration.

419
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 1: A lot of times, you know, the person that you

420
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 1: see for primary care is at a completely different institution,

421
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of times you know the therapist and

422
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: may be seeing maybe private doesn't necessarily work with a

423
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: health care organization. So I mean, that's a great question.

424
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,239
Speaker 1: I think that's something that needs to be explored. You know,

425
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 1: do we have you know, local questions where you know,

426
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: we invite primary care doctors in the community and surpuce

427
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: in the community kind of collaborate together, you know, if

428
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: you are working with the health care organization that does

429
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: have the therapist right there. I know a lot of

430
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 1: institutions they have like care coordination meetings, so at least

431
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's all the players are in the room,

432
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: which is ideally would be the great way to go

433
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 1: for primary care in general and just how we approach

434
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 1: you know, each individual patient in front of us. But

435
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 1: this is something that still needs to be worked on.

436
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: I know, for me, I don't really have like a

437
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 1: direct connection their therapists where I can say, hey, let's

438
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: meet up and see, you know, if we can chat

439
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: a little bit about what's going on with a few

440
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 1: of my clients because really, honestly, my patients are they're

441
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: scattered as far as who they're seeing, so it makes

442
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: it really difficult to kind of keep that collaboration direct

443
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: communication going, got you, Yeah, And I do also know

444
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: that lots of therapists will try and come and meet

445
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: with like maybe the nursing staff. You know, I know,

446
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: primary care doctors. Your schedule is really busy, but sometimes

447
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: they can meet with like the office manager or whatever

448
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: to kind of introduce themselves so that then there's a

449
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: better idea of like who's in the community, so that

450
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: when you need a referral for a therapist, you have

451
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: some ideas about who you can send your people too. Yeah,

452
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: that's like, honestly, if I don't think we've had anyone

453
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 1: in our offer speak it that a lot with nursing

454
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 1: services services in the community where they'll combine and drop

455
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: a pamphlet and kind of give information. So then when

456
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 1: you need someone who needs help at home, you're like, oh, yeah,

457
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: I remember this question to drop five. So I think

458
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 1: that actually would be a great idea if a lot

459
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: more therapists could, like, you know, make maybe a one

460
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: page pacelet or brochure about what they do their expertise

461
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: and kind of drop it at the office kind of

462
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: just get some face to face and that will help

463
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: the collaboration too. And it also helps too with certain

464
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: websites like Therapy for Black Girls, where you can actually

465
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: read a profile or I'm another one I love is

466
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: psychology today is well too. That's kind of what I

467
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: pull up in the office to kind of get a

468
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: little background and share with patients. Mm hmmm. So that, Sherry,

469
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: I know that you are involved in training. And of

470
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: course there has been lots of media coverage, lots of

471
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: stories and all of these things coming out about black women,

472
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: in particular in our relationships with our physicians and how

473
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes black women are not believed, or the

474
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: doctors will think that they have a higher pain tolerance

475
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: than they do, that they're mad seeking, like all of

476
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: these things. And so I would love to hear you

477
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,719
Speaker 1: talk about, like what kinds of things you're doing in

478
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: training your future physicians to kind of make sure that

479
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: we or you know, teaching them to be more culturally responsive. Oh. Absolutely,

480
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: So I'll share one initiative I've done. So basically, what

481
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, what you've mentioned is talking about

482
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: you know, there's not equity in regards to how we

483
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: view patients and how we're treating them, right, especially when

484
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: we're talking about the black woman so in particular, So

485
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: part of my role is not only being a primary

486
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: care doctor, but I'm also an assistant professor at Rowanbostypathic Medicine,

487
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: so I might on the same campus and because of that,

488
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: I get a lot of trainees. So one way I've

489
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: kind of helped to start tackling this topic is by

490
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: introducing a health equity module within one of my courses.

491
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: So traditionally it's said it's to shift. But traditionally what

492
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: would happen is we would learn all the medicine right,

493
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: all the hard stuff, the cancers, the chronic diseases and

494
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: how to treat them, and our focus was so much

495
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: on that. But we're realizing now, you know, if we're

496
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: really going to tackle the conversation on healthcare, we have

497
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: to start talking about social determines of health, how people live,

498
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: work and everything around them, and how that plays a

499
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,479
Speaker 1: part in their care and end. As much as we

500
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: know that's a factor, we're not translating that in medical education.

501
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: So what happened would be, you know, you get a

502
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: one week course or maybe in your family medicine rotation,

503
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: you would be trained on like, hey, yeah, I don't

504
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: forget about the fact that gun violence is important, or

505
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: trauma is important or things like that. But no, one

506
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: makes that connection, makes that correlation, and it's always done

507
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: in isolation. So with my course, what I decided to

508
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: do is, as you're learning the medicine, there would be

509
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: different module readings and videos that I would ask students

510
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: to read and as part of their grade to really

511
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: get them to say, you know what, there was a

512
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: social component to this too. It's not just black or white.

513
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: A lot of patients exist in the gray, and a

514
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: lot of times it takes a little bit more effort

515
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: on our side to really understand the community we're working

516
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: in and the people were serving. So different readings on

517
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: racism in medicine and what that looks like, the pain

518
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: bias we have for people of color versus people who

519
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: are you know, not colored. Things such as why other

520
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: components of diet and other cultures impact diabetes, or how

521
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: someone's job or what they're doing plays a huge part

522
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: and how their health translates. So just different health disparities

523
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: amongst different groups and what could be the cause of that,

524
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: not just O, hey, they don't like to go to

525
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: the doctor, they don't like to be screened. But there's

526
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: more to it. You know, There's also been a historical

527
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, background as to why there's a lack of

528
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: trust among minority communities, courts, physicians do we understand that?

529
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: So part of introducing that and being involved in that

530
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: in curriculum really allows students to understand how their advocates

531
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: and understand how it's more than just diagnosed and treat

532
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: them with medication. And have you found that as a whole,

533
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: like medical education is moving towards including more of this

534
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: in the curriculum, yes, absolutely, And a lot of it

535
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: too was is because the students, a lot of students,

536
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: especially around the time when you know, police brutality was

537
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: becoming a huge thing and was really you know, in

538
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 1: the forefront of the news. And I don't know if

539
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: you're familiar, but there was a a guy in that

540
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: was staged by medical students across the country where it

541
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: was a white coat for black lives, and students in

542
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: their white coat would be in a large area of

543
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: a tri m and beyond, you know, on the ground

544
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,959
Speaker 1: and their white coats protesting and standing up for how

545
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, racism and policepitality is a public health issue.

546
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: So it really got all the way up through the

547
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: training boards and the governing bodies that kind of oversee

548
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: curriculum and how things are carried out in medical schools

549
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: where they're like whoa, you know, students are asking for

550
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: more education on this. You didn't want to be more involved,

551
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to social injustices, especially when it

552
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: comes to addressing disparities among groups. So we kind of

553
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: had no choice but to say, oh, we gotta do

554
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: something about it. So there's a lot of curriculum at

555
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: different schools that's popping up and being able to start

556
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: to address this. But then what happens to the people who,

557
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: like myself, have already graduated, I'm done with residency, I'm

558
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: in training. What if I don't feel comfortable with this?

559
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: And I think that is where you really have to

560
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: start to tackle it, because you know, our patients in

561
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: the Committe are seeing these doctors, but we have to

562
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: make sure it's not just the people who are coming up,

563
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: but how do we address and educate the people who

564
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: are already out there? Right? And I know for lots

565
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: of therapists, um, you know we of course, I have

566
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: licenses in our states as well, and for a lot

567
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: of states, one of the continuing education credits you have

568
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: to get is around multiculturalism and diversity or something related

569
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: to that. Is there the same kind of requirement for physicians. Yes,

570
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: and a lot of that will be in the semi

571
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: trainings or different conferences you'll go to where you'll get

572
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: the credit for maintaining your licensure. We'll definitely get that.

573
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: But I mean, even part of that, I feel like

574
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: we have to challenge it a bit more because how

575
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: many times have you heard the word diversity? How many

576
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: times have you heard the word cultural competency? And quite frankly,

577
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: some people are out there and they can't even recognize

578
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: their own bias, right, I mean, hence why we see

579
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: what's happening to black women too? Right? So, yes, it's

580
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: out there. It's like the terms are there, right, we

581
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: throw it around, but are we truly dissecting what that

582
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: means and really sitting back and say, hmmm, are we

583
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: getting this right or not? Because we've been throwing this

584
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: these words around for parts in time. These aren't new,

585
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: but are we doing it the right way? Right? Right?

586
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: So what tips do you have Dr Sherry for our listeners?

587
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: You know you've already kind of shared a little bit

588
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: about how you feel like patients can be stronger advocates

589
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: for themselves. Do you have other tips related to how

590
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: our listeners can maybe do a better job partnering with

591
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: their primary care physicians. Absolutely, And if we're talking directly

592
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: um in regards to the audience, especially when we're talking

593
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: about therapy for black girls and when we're talking about

594
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: black women. One of my favorite phrases when I have

595
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: a woman of color in front of me going about everything,

596
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: and you know, I can hear her speaking like I

597
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,239
Speaker 1: think I have this, but it's probably because I work

598
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: too harder kind of minimizing her symptoms. I will pause

599
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: and I will say to her, can you please take

600
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: your superwoman cap off and leave it at the door.

601
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: And a lot of times they end up looking at

602
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: me and I'm I, guests, you don't need to be

603
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: Superwoman in here. And I think that complex, which we're

604
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: very familiar of, has been about in literature. You know

605
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people are aware, we don't realize that

606
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: we carry that into the doctor's visit and it's in there,

607
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: and part of I think the conversation needs to happen,

608
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about, you know, what's happening with

609
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: black women, especially when it comes to health care. It's

610
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: also talking to black women and saying, hey, you know what,

611
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: don't bring the superwoman complex and actually makes the time

612
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: to advocate for yourself. So some things I tell people

613
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: is don't multitask, like when it comes to your doctor's visits.

614
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: So people will just be in the office like, oh,

615
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: I have to carryup because I have to pick up

616
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: the kids. You have to go make dinner, I have

617
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: to do X, y Z. So when you're there, you're

618
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: not really there. When you're there, you're planning for the

619
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: next few hours. So pick a time to see your

620
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: doctor when you have a break, you know, if you can,

621
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: you have a babysitter, if you can, you can plan

622
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: it when you're on vacation and the kids will be

623
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: at school. Let's be intentional about how you approach it.

624
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: At times, Yes, it's gonna be difficult because maybe it's

625
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: an emergency visits, some things acutely going on. To still

626
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: value the time you have up to you can really

627
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: be there and be present and say, you know what, Doc,

628
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: I have these concerns as much as yes stressed. It

629
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: plays a huge part into our health. Do not say, oh,

630
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: I haven't done with pain, but I think it's stressed

631
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: because a lot of times to what I find is

632
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: you'll present a complaint to the doctor, but you'll suppress

633
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: it by almost adding your own commentary, Oh, it's probably nothing.

634
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm probably working too hard, you know, it's probably it's

635
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: part of being a wife. Oh the chuch pain is there,

636
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: But you know what, I just you know, I don't

637
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: have time for myself, and you almost past, like cope

638
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: right over it. And if you keep doing that, at

639
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: some point, the person who's sitting across from you and

640
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: taking notes will also start to do the same thing

641
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: because you started to just minimize it and you don't

642
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: put the urgency there too. So I think, especially when

643
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: it comes to black women, don't minimize your knees. If

644
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: it's a huge problem, you say that, doc, i've been

645
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: having this chess pain. I really want to talk about

646
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: it because I'm really worried about it, and that will

647
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: bring my attention up. So I think again, leaving the complex,

648
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: making the time for it, and really don't suppress what

649
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: you're going through. And if you don't like an answer,

650
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know the doctor who's actually

651
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: gonna listen to you and advocate for yourself. Yeah, I'm

652
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: glad you mentioned that to share, because I think there

653
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: can sometimes be like this whole difficulty challenging authority, right,

654
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: And when you think about authority, you know, a doctor

655
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: in a white coat, that kind of comes to mind.

656
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: And so you know, hearing that it's okay to like

657
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: ask for a second opinion, or it's I kind of

658
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: push back on if your doctor says something that you

659
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: don't quite agree with, like that it's okay to challenge

660
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: them and ask him to explain. One of the things

661
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: I always say to people is if the doctors I

662
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't attest, you know, whether that be blood work or

663
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: an imaging test, you say, hey, doc, what are we

664
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: doing this for? Like, what is this? What are we

665
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: doing this for? What are we looking for? So you know,

666
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: if it looks like exports positive per se, what would

667
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: be the next step? What are we concerned about? If

668
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: it's negative, what have we ruled out? What does that

669
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: you know put us that east for? So, yeah, we

670
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: should be encouraged and in the dialogue. And if you

671
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: don't understand, and we've used big words, because trust me,

672
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of it to say I don't understand what

673
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: you mean because you're playing that again. And don't be

674
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: afraid of just say yes or not. Your head really

675
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: asked the questions. I love those twos. So where can

676
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: we find you? Dr Sherry? Where can we find you online?

677
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: As well as any social media handles that you want

678
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: to share? No problem so online. I have my own website.

679
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: It's www dot Dr Magdalen Ferry dot com and you

680
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: can see different things that I'm doing and even connect

681
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: with me there. I also do have a Facebook page

682
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: which is under Dr m Ferry, and I'm also on Instagram,

683
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: so people often send me messages on Instagram. It's at

684
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: Dr Magdala Sherry. H Well, thank you so much, Liker Shrry.

685
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: All of that information will be included in the show

686
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: notes for people to find. Thanks so much for chatting

687
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: with us today. Thank you. I'm so thankful Dr Sherry

688
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: was able to share her expertise with us today. To

689
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: find out more information about her and her practice, visit

690
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

691
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: slash Session one oh three, and don't forget to show

692
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: some support for our sponsor for this episode, Naturalisious. It's

693
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: the world's first vegan performance hair care line that delivers

694
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: the results of twelve products and only three. You can

695
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: find the products and over twelve Sally stores nationwide, and

696
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: you can also get ten off your purchase online by

697
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: going to natural Sious dot net and using the promo

698
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: code joy j o y at checkout. Remember that if

699
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: you're searching for a therapist in your area, check out

700
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

701
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: slash directory, and be sure to visit our online store

702
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop, where

703
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: you can find our guided affirmation, breakup journal and your

704
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls T shirts and mugs. Thank y'all

705
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look

706
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon.

707
00:33:50,040 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: Take good care, the best, best, the best, the best

708
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: po