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Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: You're doing your sexy radio voice. I'm a ghost that

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Speaker 1: hides in the walls and he tries to raise you.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a sex ghost with a face mask, and

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Speaker 1: I'm a hot young on Janue Good and singing on

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Speaker 1: new code for pray. Yeah, I'm so excited. So okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the Bechtel Cast where we talk about the

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Speaker 1: portrayal of women in movie inspired by the Bechdel Tests,

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Speaker 1: which requires that two women in a movie of names

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Speaker 1: they talked to each other in their conversation has to

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Speaker 1: be something about something other than a man grow up.

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Speaker 1: Never happens never, never, once in the history of cinema.

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Speaker 1: This is an episode I feel like we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about doing for at least six months. Yeah, well, because

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Speaker 1: once every two to three episodes, do you find a

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Speaker 1: way to mention it? Because I loved to shoehorn inch,

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Speaker 1: Schumacher mentioned, this is our second episode of a Joel

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Speaker 1: Schumacher movie. Third, so I think only the second. We

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Speaker 1: did Flatliners and that's no, and we did bat Oh no,

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Speaker 1: that was a Tim Burton Batman. Okay, Well, lots of

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Speaker 1: Schumacher undertones in this podcast. I love a mediocre man.

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Speaker 1: That's why I will always feel like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: if it's a Joel Schumacher joint. Sure he deserves another chance,

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Speaker 1: absolutely he doesn't, but he's like five million years old.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna be making movies until he dies, and we

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Speaker 1: just have to get used to it. I love how

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Speaker 1: mediocre Joel Schumacher is. He is just emblematic of just

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Speaker 1: infinite chances for kind of no reason. I agree that

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Speaker 1: he's mediocre, and I hate him for that reason. So

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Speaker 1: we right. I mean I generally only mediocreman are not

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Speaker 1: okay for some reason. Joel Schumacher, he just he at

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Speaker 1: least tries to take creative risks that just have historically

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Speaker 1: never once worked. But he keeps doing it, and he

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Speaker 1: keeps getting opportunities to do it. And it's just like

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Speaker 1: so many female directors with challenge you're gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: diet obscurity. But Joel Schumacher is gonna make five million

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Speaker 1: movies and they're all gonna be fine there, except this

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Speaker 1: one is actually really spectacularly bad. I thought you were

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Speaker 1: going to end it spectacular and I was gonna be upset,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, I've seen this movie at least twenty times.

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Speaker 1: I was, I, Well, we'll get into it. It's the

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Speaker 1: Phantom of the Opera episode the Joel Schumacher film. The

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Speaker 1: two thousand four Christmas movie season was maybe like my

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Speaker 1: favorite Christmas movie season growing up, because a fan of

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Speaker 1: the Opera came out horny for that right. Series of

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Speaker 1: Unfortunate Events starring Jim Carrey was the first movie I

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Speaker 1: ever saw that made me viscerally angry and I really

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Speaker 1: hated and so that was fun. Also National Treasure, which

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Speaker 1: a hot season, a real hot season. Well, who can

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Speaker 1: argue with that? Hey, let's introduce our guests. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: is a writer, she's a video essay as. She has

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Speaker 1: this whole series of wonderful video essays, including an amazing

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Speaker 1: on this movie. We're so almost stinked up there, we

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Speaker 1: did it. It's early, but there, it's ten, it's happening.

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Speaker 1: What are we doing? All those little things from seven

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Speaker 1: to eleven. They put them next to the creamers, but

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Speaker 1: it's actually like caffeine shots. I've got a couple of

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Speaker 1: anyone needs me. And that voice you're hearing is our

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Speaker 1: guest who we started intro and then forgot to do

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Speaker 1: it the rest of the way. Lindsay Ellis. Thank you, guys,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. You happen to be doing a

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Speaker 1: podcast on my favorite cracks, So so here for this.

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Speaker 1: We're so excited you. So Phantom of the Opera, you

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Speaker 1: have a history with this franchise. Maybe I've done three

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Speaker 1: thirty plus minute videos we've seen on the opera. I

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Speaker 1: don't front with my Phantom, but it's like probably my

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Speaker 1: oldest fandom, and its like there's something about Phantom. Like

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Speaker 1: most things you kind of outgrow, but Phantom just the

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Speaker 1: stink never leaves you, so you just kind of got

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Speaker 1: to own it. So when did you see this two

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Speaker 1: thousand four Juel Schumacher Phantom? Well, I first when I was, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a sad fifteen sixteen year old. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I actually wasn't that sad. Like Phantom drew me out

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Speaker 1: of an even sadder phase of my life, which is

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Speaker 1: when I was like in the New Metal and limpist

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Speaker 1: get and really angry and sad all the time, and

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Speaker 1: then I discovered musical theater, so there's a logical progression

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Speaker 1: for you, and uh, I was like really obsessively into it.

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Speaker 1: And that's actually how I met, like several of my

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Speaker 1: current business partners to mostly Phantom of the Opera fandom

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Speaker 1: in two thousand one, like my current co writer Angelina,

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Speaker 1: I met on fan fiction dot net. Same with a

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Speaker 1: Lisa Hansen who now does Vampirebout You Too, and Antonello

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Speaker 1: and Sarah who used to do Nostalgic with me. Not

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Speaker 1: so much anymore because we live in different cities. But

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Speaker 1: by the time the movie came out, I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: it was over it, but it was like it was

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Speaker 1: sort of like our joke old thing. We were excited

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Speaker 1: at first, but then we saw that Schumacher was attached

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Speaker 1: to it, and then like that like Antonio Vanderis who

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Speaker 1: wanted it so bad, and they were already making this

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Speaker 1: terrible creative decision in the form of Emmy Rossim and

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Speaker 1: Gerard Butler, and we were just like, oh wow, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be like just as bad as we think

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Speaker 1: it will be, and I just remember what was really

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Speaker 1: funny was like seeing it. Did you see in theater? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I saw in theaters with my mother in Asheville, North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: We were both like, wow, how did they mess that

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Speaker 1: up so bad? You know the show that's like it's cheesy,

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Speaker 1: but it works. How it happened? Jamie? What's your history?

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Speaker 1: Oh man? I also got into fandom, I mean freakishly young,

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Speaker 1: because my mom is obsessed with Phantom of the Opera.

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Speaker 1: My mom also, as you know, completely unhinged. But's a

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Speaker 1: theme with Phantom fans exactly, like we relate to that

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Speaker 1: Phantom and there's too much of me that I see

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Speaker 1: in that because I but I have a very specific

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Speaker 1: memory of when I was really young, I mean probably

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Speaker 1: five years old. So and it's directly connects to two

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Speaker 1: of your videos. So I got those Hunchback of Notre

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Speaker 1: Dame puppets that they sold. Yes, So I got all

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Speaker 1: of this because my mom ran a daycare out of

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Speaker 1: our house, and so there'll be some time every day

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Speaker 1: where I'd be like, I want to be like by

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Speaker 1: myself because I live here. So my mom would let

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Speaker 1: me have time alone in a room and she would

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Speaker 1: give me the three puppets Esmeralda, Quasimodo, and Phoebus, and

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Speaker 1: she would turn on the original London cast of the

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Speaker 1: Fantom of the Opera and I would pretend they were

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Speaker 1: Christine and the Phantom and Raoul So and that was

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Speaker 1: when I was like five, So it's into Phantom super early.

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Speaker 1: Like some of my earliest memories are listening to the

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Speaker 1: Phantom of the Opera and playing with puppets by myself,

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Speaker 1: so very into it. And then goth teen Jamie, my

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Speaker 1: middle school choir was going to a production of Fan

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Speaker 1: of the Opera at the Boston Opera House. I remember

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Speaker 1: I like had all these fish nets and like very

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Speaker 1: like Phantom of the Operas super fan clothes on underneath

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Speaker 1: normal clothes. And then I got to school and I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm the biggest fan of fanom of the Opera.

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Speaker 1: And I had like the skirt from Trip with like

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Speaker 1: chains on it and like fish nets, and I love

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Speaker 1: this movie. It's very into it. I've seen I've seen

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Speaker 1: Fan of the Opera on stage probably fine times. I

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Speaker 1: think I've actually got to beat Yeah, I've probably seen

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Speaker 1: it at least fifteen times. It doesn't good old though,

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Speaker 1: Like if I lived in New York, it was just

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Speaker 1: sort of like tickets, it was twenty five bucks. You know.

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Speaker 1: Although like I'm so like, I'm so happy they're finally

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Speaker 1: replacing bad phantom James Barber. Finally you should have you

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Speaker 1: should never have hired him. He was not good, worse

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Speaker 1: than Gerard Butler. No, I don't what it is for

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Speaker 1: a Broadway fantom, just like you know, on top of

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Speaker 1: being like a pedophile, he's just not a good phantom. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that in the literal since he was actually

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Speaker 1: actually went to trial for it, and really, yeah, there

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Speaker 1: was an old man. It's like speaking of mediocre men

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Speaker 1: getting second chances. Yeah, he was accused and went to

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Speaker 1: trial for I think one, but then there were two

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Speaker 1: more accusers, all were under the age of fifteen, and

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Speaker 1: so they eventually he had a plea deal and so

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Speaker 1: he was never actually served any time. But that then

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Speaker 1: he was like after his probation was up in two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve or eight, I don't know, Somewhere somewhere in

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Speaker 1: the Obama years, Broadway was like, welcome back, brother, and

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Speaker 1: he's been doing pretty well. Why why do we let

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Speaker 1: criminals do the thing well? I mean that is kind

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Speaker 1: of a smooth transition right into Uh. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of praying on a minor in this movie, a lot

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Speaker 1: of it. So I had never seen the movie until

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Speaker 1: a couple of days ago. I thought I had, but

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Speaker 1: turns out I hadn't, and I didn't know what the story.

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Speaker 1: I've never this is my first. I hadn't seen the show,

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Speaker 1: not familia, never read the book. Nothing. But you don't

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Speaker 1: like music generally, I don't like musicals. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just I have. This was my first experience with Phantom

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Speaker 1: of the Opera, and boy did this movie sour my experience.

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Speaker 1: It's good, here's got a lot of pain. Okay, just

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Speaker 1: just to illustrative point of how much people love this Okay,

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Speaker 1: so it has on rotten to me as critically, no

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Speaker 1: one liked it. Everyone said get the electric guitar riff

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Speaker 1: out of there, right audience score like people love fanom

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Speaker 1: of the Opera and they hear now people people will,

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Speaker 1: I guess because like when I did the video about it,

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Speaker 1: I tended to focus mostly on the technical filmmaking. For

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Speaker 1: that reason, I think I didn't get a lot of

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Speaker 1: pushback from fans. But I definitely remember like in two

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Speaker 1: thousand five, when I guess we were. I was in

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Speaker 1: college at the time, and uh, you know that was

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Speaker 1: like when Phantom of the Opera fandom got to shut

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Speaker 1: the arm from this new movie and like there was

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Speaker 1: this new wave of people who just loved the movie,

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Speaker 1: and then there was the old guard that was just

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Speaker 1: like gate keeping. So there was like a war. I

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Speaker 1: remember it. Well, yeah, those people they live. Um, should

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Speaker 1: I do the recap? Yeah? Okay. Family the Opera is

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Speaker 1: about a young woman named Christine. She is a chorus

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Speaker 1: girl in this opera house. Also in the opera house

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Speaker 1: is a spooky phantom man. As he goes as he

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Speaker 1: really don't know, but everyone's scared of him, and everyone's like, ah,

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Speaker 1: that's literally yeah, there's there's a literal. Oh, there's there's

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Speaker 1: a really yeah, there's a really obnoxious set up to

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Speaker 1: this movie. Oh the frameming devices, and they keep going

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Speaker 1: back to it. Patrick Wilson's age makeup is Patrick Wilson

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Speaker 1: and old makeup. I'm pretty age makeup. Oh god, why Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not that bad, but mean, the makeup is not bad,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I was realized I thought that was

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Speaker 1: just an old man. But like Why wouldn't they have

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Speaker 1: just cast an old Anyway, I do love that Patrick

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Speaker 1: Wilson puts on old man voice. It sounds really connectors.

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Speaker 1: It's like, okay, we get it, you're old. I mostly

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Speaker 1: fast forwarded through those parts, but those are the worst parts.

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Speaker 1: You missed that so extraneous if they don't need to

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Speaker 1: be there. They had nothing. They had product placement. It

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Speaker 1: was like there Swarovski I think there was another one.

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Speaker 1: It was like another brand that existed in the eighteen Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the show takes place in the eighteen seventies, which

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense because that was during the Franco Prussian

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Speaker 1: War and the opera was under siege. Not an opera,

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Speaker 1: but the shows like eighteen seventy one was like okay,

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Speaker 1: So in the movie, I think they bump it back

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Speaker 1: to eighteen eight or a time that made sense when

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Speaker 1: the novel took place. So I guess this one thing

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Speaker 1: the movie fixed, thank you, We're not much else, We're

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Speaker 1: the Andrew low Wepper was like, no, let's let's kick

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Speaker 1: it back another fifteen years. For whatever reason. Well, I

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Speaker 1: guess maybe it's like the dresses were cooler in the

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Speaker 1: eighteen than in the eighties. It's true. It's true though

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Speaker 1: I didn't like those bustles. But also this movie does

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Speaker 1: not abide by any manner of like I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: some that's more realistic, but there's sometimes there's like the

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Speaker 1: time that where Christine is wearing like a slip with

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Speaker 1: like a slit on the leg. You're just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: totally on the outside of my night gown. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, oh. Let's also I'm a singer, but I'm

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Speaker 1: in the ballet right, but you're not going to see

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Speaker 1: me do much of either, Like yeah, she okay, okay, sorry,

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Speaker 1: there's a spookie ghost Carlotta. She's like the prima donna diva,

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Speaker 1: like the star of all the opera is the only

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Speaker 1: person who knows what's a movie. She's in any different

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Speaker 1: things happen where she's like, I'm not gonna sing, or

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Speaker 1: she's you know, refusing to perform. So they're like, how

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Speaker 1: about this Christine girl? She can sing, but they're like,

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Speaker 1: how how can she s? I mean that's about what

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Speaker 1: I sounded like when I was seventeen, So okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: ready to beat the prematana of the premier French opera

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Speaker 1: is how old she is in the in the movie

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Speaker 1: when she's aged down in the movie, and I think

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Speaker 1: that Emmy Rossum was sixteen she was your age because

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Speaker 1: she kisses two old men in this movie. She kisses

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Speaker 1: two men far older than he. So she's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can sing. Because it turns out she's been taking

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Speaker 1: singing lessons from a an angel of music, who she

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Speaker 1: thinks is her dead father's spirit, teaching her how to sing.

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Speaker 1: He is just like drenched in electric complex. Yes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she thinks the ghost is her daddy. No, she thinks

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Speaker 1: that the ghost is an angel sits because so it's

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Speaker 1: basically as bad, but because as he as he lay dying,

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Speaker 1: she's like, I'm gonna send you an angel County, don't

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Speaker 1: worry like the panther. Somehow her other finds out about this,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, right, how does he know about that

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Speaker 1: and know about Maybe he was No, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know watching her dad died, I don't

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Speaker 1: know for a long Maybe he was in the walls.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he died in her dressing He tends to do

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Speaker 1: that her dressing room that she has by herself alone,

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Speaker 1: which is yeah, I mean when okay, that was another

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Speaker 1: part where I was like, Okay, is she supposed to

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Speaker 1: be in Carlotta's dressing room, but it looks like it's

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Speaker 1: all her stuff, and the phantom wouldn't have rigged Carlotta's

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Speaker 1: dressing room so that he could just appear wherever, like

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Speaker 1: a two way mirror that slides. Okay, but that rules,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, that rules, and it's a very exciting

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Speaker 1: stage moment, and I'm just like in the book it

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Speaker 1: was her dressing room. So yeah, she's such a big

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Speaker 1: dressing room. She's a teen orphan. They don't get nice

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Speaker 1: dressing room in France comes orphans. She can't sing, but

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Speaker 1: she is a teen in an orphanage. Good enough, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll put her corset on the outside of her clothes. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we're about fifteen minutes where we have not got much further.

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Speaker 1: So she thinks this angel of music is singing to

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Speaker 1: her and teaching how to sing. Turns out this phantom,

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Speaker 1: who is real, approaches her and she's like, oh wait,

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Speaker 1: you're a man, but you're still my angel of music,

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Speaker 1: and they have a whole song about it. She has

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Speaker 1: no reaction to learning that he's a man. Does get

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Speaker 1: darker though, Sorry it gets very, very very smoky. It

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Speaker 1: does get Yeah, by the time she's in the gutter,

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Speaker 1: she is in full smoke. Ye. Like I said, the

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Speaker 1: further down she goes the smoky and it looks like

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Speaker 1: it looks like when I was thirteen and trying on

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Speaker 1: moms makeup for the first times, Like darker she there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of long shots of Emmy Ross. I'm just

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Speaker 1: like looking like she's basically falling a like mouth kind

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Speaker 1: of a dog. Yeah, And it's like, oh, that's what

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Speaker 1: love is, just tranced voice Yard Butler. So I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that, Like this movie does a very bad job

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Speaker 1: I think of setting up that he's supposed to be

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Speaker 1: this like seductive and she's like, oh, I like that.

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Speaker 1: Like I did not realize that they were having like

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Speaker 1: a love story. Like it didn't really not good at

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Speaker 1: things right, It's almost like he's just laying on top

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Speaker 1: of that. Gerard Butler is doing an exceptionally bad job

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Speaker 1: of being seductive. Amy Rawsom is like sixteen and has

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Speaker 1: never gone outside, so she doesn't know how to look

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Speaker 1: like seduced. I guess, which is already gross. Why did

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Speaker 1: they cast a sixteen year old Anne Hathaway really wanted

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Speaker 1: the part to really and out the way who can

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Speaker 1: sing and was the correct age in two thousand five.

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Speaker 1: I think she would have done She would have done well,

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Speaker 1: and Heathway and Antonio Banders what could have done would

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Speaker 1: entire and this like didn't really launch anyone's career in

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Speaker 1: the way that I think the movie intended to. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're Patrick Wilson's. Patrick Wilson's didn't get hurt, right, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't He wasn't actively harmed by I would I would

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Speaker 1: think perhaps that Emmy Rassam was maybe damaged by this.

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Speaker 1: I think she was like maybe on the rise and

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Speaker 1: then kind of stalled. She was in the Day after Tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: and then he went away until Beautiful Creatures switched yes myself, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was like the oh sexy older sister and she

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Speaker 1: just that looked his network on her well. And then

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Speaker 1: now she she's like relegated to TV and seems to

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Speaker 1: be doing well. But it's I feel for her this

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Speaker 1: week because imagine like having the rest of your life

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Speaker 1: affected by a mistake that didn't seem like a mistake

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Speaker 1: when you were sixteen. Sure, basically it's her teen pregnancy

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Speaker 1: so we're we're so he's like seducing her, and she's

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Speaker 1: kind of into it, question mark, I don't really know.

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Speaker 1: But he shows her this like wax sculpture he made

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Speaker 1: of her, of her in a in a wedding dress,

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Speaker 1: and she also has no reaction to that. She's just

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Speaker 1: like she passes out. She passes out because women be fainting, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is so creepy out. But then after that,

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Speaker 1: when she wakes up to me, she does not have

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Speaker 1: an appropriate reaction to a creepy man whose face is

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Speaker 1: half hot and half under a mask making a sculpture

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Speaker 1: of her. And then she's just like, yeah, okay, you're

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Speaker 1: my friend. Now there's something not to jump to anyone's devans.

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Speaker 1: But she does think that he's like an angel. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the tay she rips off the mask is

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Speaker 1: when she's like, oh, you're ugly. I guess you're not

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Speaker 1: an angel and can only be high. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's just kind of confusing because when you like both

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Speaker 1: in the show and in the movie, from that point on,

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Speaker 1: you don't see her again until the opera, right, and

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Speaker 1: and then she runs to the roof like I'm really

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Speaker 1: scared Raoul, and he's like, don't worry, honey, it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not real. So I guess like at that point

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Speaker 1: where she kind of turns on him, but it's all

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Speaker 1: really implicit, and there's like, yeah, this story is so

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Speaker 1: clunky the more you look at it. But she okay,

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Speaker 1: So she meets him, she's like, he's an angel. He

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Speaker 1: made it a wax statue of me that we have

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Speaker 1: to assume he has sex with. There's no way there's

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Speaker 1: not a cavernous hole in that wax section. So anyways,

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Speaker 1: she wakes up and she's like, well, that happened. But

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Speaker 1: then he does start to behave more and more threatening

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Speaker 1: after that, where not that her reaction at any point

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Speaker 1: in this story totally makes sense, But if I'm remembering correctly,

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Speaker 1: she gets out and that's when he starts being like

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Speaker 1: you have to recast the show. And then he like

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Speaker 1: causes the fucking chandelier. Yeah it doesn't fall yet. That's

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Speaker 1: the funny thing about the chandelier freaking people out. It

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Speaker 1: has like has no consequence. It just kind of happened.

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Speaker 1: As far as we know, no one's hurt. He does,

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Speaker 1: so right, I'm thinking, I'm sorry I'm thinking of the

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Speaker 1: show because the show, it falls at the end of

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Speaker 1: act one, whenever he goes like, you will curse the

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Speaker 1: day you did not do all that the phantom masks

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Speaker 1: of you, and then he cuts the chandelier as a threat,

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Speaker 1: and then in the movie he just cuts it because

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Speaker 1: he feels like it because I forgot to do this.

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Speaker 1: We have it on. We have to justify the framing

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Speaker 1: device right exactly. But before that he has the guy

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Speaker 1: from the rafters and then everyone's like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a ghost to be reckoned with. By the time people

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Speaker 1: are dying, I'm like, okay, it makes sense for her

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Speaker 1: to be scared now, yeah, but then she still sort

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Speaker 1: of is and then sort of isn't throughout the rest

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Speaker 1: of the movie to the point where this is. This

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Speaker 1: is kind of the genius of the Lloyd Webber version

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Speaker 1: because this was the first version where they really play

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Speaker 1: up the she's kind of into it, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's also why I know that's why this is the

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Speaker 1: most successful version. Was like in the book, he's just

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Speaker 1: kind of like a creepy guy and she's never into it,

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Speaker 1: like she pities him, like in the Proto Pity and

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00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: Gollum kind of way, but like the second she sees

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Speaker 1: him and she's like oh, and then he's like sorry

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Speaker 1: because real looks like ship. Yeah, he's wearing the masks,

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Speaker 1: but he's just like, hey, um, I'm not an angel.

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Speaker 1: I'm a fifty year old man who's in love with you.

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Speaker 1: Come to my basement. And she's like, he's going to

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Speaker 1: kill and eat me. I have to just placate him

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Speaker 1: and do whatever he says it. So she does this

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Speaker 1: for like two weeks where she's like, no, you're great,

390
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: you're awesome. I think you're really nice. Looky the things

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Speaker 1: that women have to do. I'm not getting murder. Yeah,

392
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Speaker 1: And that's so then he lets he like after two weeks,

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00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 1: she convinces him and he's like okay, final, let you

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00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: go back into the opera. And then she tells Raoul

395
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Speaker 1: everything like oh my god, there's this creepy guy and

396
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: he's gonna kill me. And then he overhears it and

397
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: that's when he snaps and loses it. That makes more sense,

398
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: not happened in this In this movie, she's kind of

399
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: into it. Toxic. Yeah. Yeah, there's like moments where he's

400
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: like wrapping his arms around her and she's not like

401
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm in a shampoo. There's there is a part and

402
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Speaker 1: this was my favorite part. I remember when I see

403
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Speaker 1: the movie when I was twelve, I was like, during

404
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: point of No Return, which is an insane number in

405
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: the movie, just looks like that. I like most of

406
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: the songs, but you should seem like, like I said,

407
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: like we watch the Royal Albert Hall version, be like, wow,

408
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: this is even better when people can sing. There are

409
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: random tango dancers there, there's but there's a point in

410
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: this version of it where Emmy Rosso looks like she's

411
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Speaker 1: straight up going to pass out again because she's so

412
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: turned on where they're like, you know the peak of

413
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: that song, it looks like her eyes are like fluttering.

414
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Speaker 1: It's like she's sick. Something someone give her. Also her

415
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: like straps of her dress falling off her shoulders and

416
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm getting more and more naked as I

417
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: get so horny with this song. And then he I

418
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: skipped half of the movie, but who cares. It doesn't

419
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 1: make any sense and it's sucking, terrible the story but

420
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: nothing but any sense. Nothing, It really doesn't. It's amazing

421
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Speaker 1: how like that doesn't bother you when it's on stage,

422
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: because there's like I think there's just a lot more

423
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: suspension of disbelief inherent in the medium of theater totally.

424
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: So I think it's just like the bizarre plot holes

425
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: just kind of wash over you in the stage version

426
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: where in the movie version and they're just spectacularly glaring

427
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: because everything is literal. There's no sort of you know,

428
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: magical realism going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it really

429
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: emphasizes how much this story makes no fucking sense. And

430
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, it's adapted really not well at all.

431
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: Like there's just there's things that could have been done

432
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: in this adaptation that would have made it transition a

433
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: little smoother, but it just didn't. And then there's like

434
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: weird moments where people are speaking dialogue that should be

435
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: sung but they're speaking rhyming diet. We're just like, why

436
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: aren't you There's like you're my bride that we don't

437
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: need to hide. That part of Masquerade drives me crazy,

438
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: where Patrick Wilson and talking to each other in the

439
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: music is still going right, I was like, why can't

440
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: you just Patrick Wilson can actually sing yeah, you get

441
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: any driver? Ironically the person who was dubbed right yeah

442
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: really yeah, alright. So the basic story is that there's

443
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: a guy who's a creep and he is gaslighting Christine

444
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: and she also is like in love with and being

445
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: gas lit by Raoul. Everyone's like, there is no phantom

446
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: and she's like there Izzy, if I don't know, he's

447
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: an angel, right, and then the Phantom gets more more

448
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: dangerous and threatening, and then by the end he is

449
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: like murdering people and like making these insane demands and

450
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: then he drops the shandeli around everyone, but no one

451
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: is hurt and it's fine, but that's like they're like, well,

452
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: this needs a consequence. I yess. It burns the opera

453
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: down and now there's no operation. And then he takes

454
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: Christine into his like swampement level apartment and had apartment

455
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: like that, and then Raoul goes to save her, of course,

456
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: and the Phantom's like, you either have to be with

457
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: me to save Raoul's life or I'll kill you both

458
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: or who knows what are And it's so funny, Like

459
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: I love the way that scene is shut, like he

460
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: just sneaks up behind role or like just walks up

461
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: to him with the noosy light here, but he'll still

462
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: he just like loops it over his head and then

463
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: like fastens him to a great. But it's just like okay,

464
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: so it's an news, which is the thing you could

465
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: hang people with. But he's like tied, tied, tied to

466
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: a great, So, um, is he just gonna strangle him

467
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: with the new like manually, like he's just gonna he

468
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: can't be hung he's tied to a great. Your video

469
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: the first time that was ever, I was like, oh, yeah,

470
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: there's no he's probably fine, Like maybe he's about to

471
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: pull out a gun and shoot him, but like the

472
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: pulling yankee at the rope, like that will eventually be.

473
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why they did it because like in

474
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: the show, it's like a magical realism thing, like yeah,

475
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: throws the rope on him, and then the rope magically

476
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: kind of lifts, so he's actually being like you know,

477
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: that's so much a phantom of like let's just throw

478
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: something into fog. People just hate how this movie doesn't

479
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: commit to the magical realism. It's just like you either

480
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: do it or don't. Like I talked about like in

481
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: the show, because they had like the Jean Cocteau arms

482
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: in the movie, which is like the sort of like, oh,

483
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm being seduced and being brought into this magical, mysterious world,

484
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: and they're like lifting this thing from Jean Coocto's Beauty

485
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: and the Beast, which are the these arms stick jutting

486
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: out of the wall and holding candles. And then they

487
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: never do anything like that for the rest of the movie.

488
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: It's just straight literal this. There's like commit to some

489
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that sty glaring plot holes, you know, just

490
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: just at least, I mean, that's like the least you

491
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,959
Speaker 1: can ask of Joel Schumachers, like commit to your bad choices.

492
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: But he doesn't do that in this one. This movie

493
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: could have been at least consistently fun and bizarre. Yeah,

494
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: but there it's just has to be serious, very disjointed.

495
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: The addition of the weird sword fighting scene, Well, the

496
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: sword fight leads to one of the talking points I

497
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: had about the treatment of women in the movie, which

498
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: is that so in that sword fight, and we see

499
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: this in a ton of movies where two men are

500
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: fighting over a woman. The men are fighting, the woman

501
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: is being fought four So it's like women are often

502
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: rendered just so passive in situations like the same thing

503
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: with like a woman having to be saved, like she

504
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: has to wait around to be saved by a man.

505
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: This isn't a huge component of this movie, but I

506
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: think it's worth mentioning that there was just like, well,

507
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: it's one of two major scenes where Christine is completely

508
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: sidelined as two men fight, Slash saying Slash argue about

509
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: her because it's that sword fighting scene where she's just

510
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: totally like literally watching like that that Quinn from Daria

511
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: being like, don't fight over me. Uh. And then and

512
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: then in the climactic scene to where dry Butler's like

513
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make your boyfriend hurt and he's like he's

514
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: like it's okay, you know, and Christine's just standing there like, oh,

515
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: she has a little more agency in that scene because

516
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: she then kisses the phantom, who would argue that it

517
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: is such a crazy like I get, I don't know.

518
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: She's sidelined for the majority of that scene. And then

519
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: it's like how do I get out of here? And

520
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: if I give him a little kissy, let us go,

521
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: which you couldn't bank on working, but it does. It

522
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: works at this show. It doesn't show in the movie.

523
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: It's just like I just feel like rolls like tied

524
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: that great in christ Post, just looking on with confusion,

525
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: like what is this supposed to? What was anyone here? Well,

526
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: the kiss that she gives to the phantom to like

527
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: placate him ignores the fact that like she's just doing

528
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: this out of desperation, because she's like, my life's in danger, Roles,

529
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: life's endangered. I've been gasp by every fucking person in

530
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: this entire movie throughout the whole fucking story. I gotta

531
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: kiss this guy to like make him not murder people.

532
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: But the movie frames it is like big romantic, the

533
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: camera spin, this is not romantic, Like what are you doing? Movie?

534
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: There's a cinema talk John Matthison is swirling around this

535
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: swab filming an underage woman kissing Gerard Butler just bleak

536
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: in every respect. But like, yeah, the point I want

537
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: to make about so often in movies, this one included,

538
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: we see a woman taking a very passive role in

539
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: whatever's happening, just sitting idly by watching as two men

540
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: fight or a man has to stave her or whatever,

541
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: and it just sends a message that women can't do

542
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: things I guess, and then we as a society or like, oh,

543
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: women can't do things because I've never seen them do

544
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: things in media, so I don't trust them to be

545
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: able to do anything. I think more than anything, it's

546
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: just like Christine's character is like, oh, you just have

547
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: to take a lot of shit, like she'd takes ship

548
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: for this entire Okay, so if we're talking about I

549
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: don't know I relate to Christine card but like so

550
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: her as a character, she's set up as she misses

551
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: her father, her father was the main figure in her life,

552
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 1: and then we're presented with to father like figures who

553
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: are fun boys that she has to choose between, where

554
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: it's like, does she choose the dangerous ghost father committing

555
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: murders or is she going to choose the useless guy

556
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: who like walked right into a trap and never But

557
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: also is like pretty consistently like you're making this up.

558
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: It's fine, just stay with men in it, and and

559
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: is visibly older than her as well, so it's like

560
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be the same age, So let's all

561
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: right because they were childhood sweethearts. Are they supposed to

562
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: because if they are the same age, unless like he

563
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: was seventeen and she was seven, which, honestly, in like

564
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: nineteenth century France, that was probably a thing, you know.

565
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's in the show. At least he's

566
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: supposed to be a year or two older than she is.

567
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: But but he has so many like successes. But he's

568
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: only supposed to be eighteen. Um, well, I mean Christine's

569
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: nineteen in the show, so he's supposed to be be one.

570
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: So I don't Again, I don't know why they age

571
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: Christine down. That does nothing for this movie. It just

572
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: makes it. Well, he's rich, but as it that, I'm

573
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: guessing he's an he's a navy officer, which is why

574
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: he like at the masquerade, he has his like naval

575
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: uniform on, so he's like a he's a vicomte, so

576
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: he like vicun died his way to the top of

577
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: the navy hierarchy, so he's like a sailor hot. So

578
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: Christine's like a girl with daddy issues who's presenting with

579
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: two daddy's and she has to pick one of them

580
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: because there has two daddies. I mean, I would actually

581
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: argue that I don't see Raoul as as a father figure. Really,

582
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: I think that in this movie, he's pretty consistently I

583
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: mean very least. Yeah, but I don't think she sees

584
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: her father in him. Okay, this or any of the

585
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: version at least that's kind of how I took it,

586
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: And that's why I guess in some ways he's less

587
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: appealing to her because she you know, she kind of

588
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: wants her dad back and so like, she has made

589
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: this association in her mind with the Phantom and her father.

590
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: But there's a level of security that comes with being

591
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: super Yeah, he got her scarf back. That's nice. Did something.

592
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: Speaking of that love triangle, I couldn't help but notice

593
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: that no time is spent developing the romance between Christine

594
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: and Raoul. They're like, oh, we knew each other as kids,

595
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: and now we're adults and we haven't seen each other

596
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: for years. I have that's what we're in love. We

597
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: have that big swell of romance number which is which

598
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: takes place right after the murder on the roof. I love.

599
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: I love that scene because it's like Bouque gets murdered,

600
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: he gets hung. She runs up to the roof and

601
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: she's like, oh god, oh god, oh god, it freaked out.

602
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: I know who did it He's gonna kill me, oh god,

603
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: and was like, don't worry, honey, it's fine, And then

604
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: like the clarinets of Romance start playing and they have

605
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: that big All I Ask of You number. They just

606
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: forgot about the killing, right, but it works, Like, yeah,

607
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work here well, especially because he's just

608
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: like creeping around, like the pantroom is just like the

609
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: whole seed, hiding behind statues and it's just like we

610
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: don't need to like this was another like point that

611
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: I made the videos, like we don't need to know

612
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: he's here. Why do you keep cutting to him? What

613
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: is the emotion you're going for? Is it tension or

614
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: are we supposed to feel bad for him? Either way,

615
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't work because this is supposed to be like

616
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: they're big row and obviously that you know doesn't stick

617
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: because like you you're like the when do they connect? Like, well,

618
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: it's there, but you don't realize it because the phantoms

619
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: like creeping around, pouting at the camera, and then in

620
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: in the musical, that's not what it is at all,

621
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: Like you don't see him just leering, you know, tiptoeing

622
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: around the stage, Like guys, it's there. It's there in

623
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: the Lawn Cheney movie. I always think it the Lawn

624
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: Chaney movie that's a reflection of the book. It's kind

625
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: of funny in the book because there's this one line

626
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: where that she's like telling role at about how ugly

627
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: he is, and then you had here this whale like

628
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: in that she lied to me and said I was

629
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: okay because I have her just because I kid not her,

630
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: and told her she could never leave damn it. Well

631
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: to the romance between Rale and Christine. This happens a

632
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: lot in movies where not I'm spent developing why these

633
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: characters would like each other or love each other, which

634
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: I think is a symptom of female characters just not

635
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: being well developed enough where they would just have a

636
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: personality or we would understand why the male lead, but

637
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, well, you know, there's a man in

638
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: the movie, and he's got to have a hot lady

639
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: to be with. So here's this lady character, but we're

640
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: not going to do anything else to develop her, and

641
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: that I think it's so true for this movie. What

642
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: is Christine's character? She has no fucking personality. She's basically

643
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: just a singing voice and then she's barely that because

644
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: well we don't see her make a lot, like most

645
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: of things happened to her made for her right, And

646
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: this is you know, I think in this version more

647
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: than any of the others, which is kind of surprising

648
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: because it's like it being the most recent, big one

649
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: that got big enough to where there were no other

650
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: versions besides the Dario or Agento version, which I do

651
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: not recommend. I haven't seen it, don't see it. There

652
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: there's I mean, I think you can out on one

653
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: hand kind of the choices we see her actually actively making.

654
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: And we don't know that she necessarily has aspirations to

655
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: be like Carla. We know she takes music lessons and

656
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: that music is important to her. We don't know that,

657
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: but she's just forced out into this role. There's no Yeah,

658
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: there's no specific goal that she has that we know

659
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: about that we don't know. Yeah, but like that's the

660
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: thing that we should probably know for any protagonist, what

661
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: their desire is, what their goal is. But just kidding,

662
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: we don't have any idea in this movie. The first

663
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: choice that she actively makes in the movie is to

664
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: kiss him at the end. Yeah, because she chooses to

665
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: go she sneaks out to go to her dad's grave.

666
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: That's one choice to see her. But that's funny, Like

667
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: she's like, they're like Christine, and you have to be

668
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: in the show. The Phantom is forcing us to put on.

669
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: We had to be in his fan fiction opera, which

670
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: is literally he's like, I really love Don Giovanni, but

671
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: it's it's not serious enough. I'm going to make serious do.

672
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 1: It's called Done Want Triumphant, and it's gonna be about

673
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: how I'm really sexy and hot and all the ladies

674
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: want me. Don One doesn't go to hell in this version.

675
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: That's literally what it is. Like. It says it's his fanic.

676
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: So they're like, Christine, you have to start and the

677
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: Phantom is fan fic. And she's like no, they's seeing

678
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: where they're like in the chapel and she's like, she says,

679
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: like I'm scared, don't make me do this. He's like,

680
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: he's like, you need to do it. Fine, he's only

681
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: killed the one guy, and then he's like I'll be there.

682
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: It's like, who cares? But I think that the choices

683
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: here make She goes to her dad's grave, only to

684
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: be sidelined pretty much but at that point, she's still confused,

685
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: apparently about who the Angel of Music is because that

686
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: song happens again. Surely she knows that they're going again

687
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: for the magical realism thing that they don't commit to,

688
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: where he's got like some sort of like hypnotic power

689
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: over her. Doesn't make any sense when she when she

690
00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: looks asleep, it's whenever she does the like you lazy

691
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: face thing, It's confusing if I didn't know Sarah Brighten face,

692
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: it is Sarah Brighten face. Yeah, just like the look

693
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: kind of asleep but kind of turned on. Like yeah,

694
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: so she she is not really inactive, not at all

695
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: protagonist at all. I'm like, I'm like having to suppress

696
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: my like my Christine stand like because I'm like, this

697
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,959
Speaker 1: is absolutely true in the movie and in the show.

698
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 1: But I'm just like, but that's not how it wasn't

699
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: the book there, It wasn't originally like this, Andrew Lloyd,

700
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: we were changed it to make her more romance novel

701
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: hair when I guess, I don't know, I mean that

702
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: totally makes sense to make this romance work. If you

703
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: give Christine a more active role, it would probably fall

704
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: apart pretty quickly. Because the male if you established, if

705
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: you had just like established a desire for her where

706
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: she will like stop at nothing to become the lead

707
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: of the opera like the new Prima Donna or whatever.

708
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: That's her driving thing. And then this fan to man

709
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: comes along who's promising to help her with that. It

710
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: would make sense why she would maybe be seduced by

711
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: him and his promises and all that stuff and then

712
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: go along with it. But because we have no idea

713
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: what her specific goal is, it's insane that she's just like, oh,

714
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm enchanted and hypnotized by his genius or what like.

715
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense to me. In the show

716
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: and certainly in the movie, it's like the closest we

717
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: can get to boiling down a motivation has to do

718
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: with her dad or somehow like recapturing boring just bad writing,

719
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: but there, But like her motivation seems pretty closely tied

720
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: to her dad, which is just crazy. And in both

721
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: the book and the show, she's just kind of coasting

722
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: like she's studying music. Dad died. I mean, well, I

723
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: guess I'll keep studying music. He paid for it, right,

724
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: But it's like the never it's like, does she want

725
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: to be here, do we know? And then that brings

726
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: me to Madame Jerry, who I just thought about this

727
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 1: like the most recent time I watched it. Of like,

728
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: Madame Jerry's basically I mean, she's in charge of the ballet.

729
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: She's like the lead choreographer of the ballet, and she's

730
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: the mother to one of the only other female characters

731
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: who speaks, Meg Jerry, who is Christine's best friend. Madame

732
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: Jerry's basically subbing in as Christine's parent. But it's so clear,

733
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: like there's a few times in the movie where we

734
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: see Madame Jerry actively make sure that Meg stays away

735
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: from the phantom. Madame Jerry, we learn knows everything about him,

736
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: knows about grew up with him, right, which is an addition.

737
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: That's that's a new addition to the movie. And I

738
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: don't like it because you know, it's like, why does

739
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: he have a friend? It's not like it doesn't It

740
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: really kind of takes some of the like impetus for

741
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: him to be so desperate and you know, obsessed with

742
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: Christine if he just has like this, you know, emotional

743
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: support all these years in the form of Madame Jerry,

744
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: who's been kind of helping you and never FLEs poorly

745
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: on her character too, because it's like, oh, she knows everything,

746
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: and his letting this child communicate openly with this very

747
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: dangerous person while keeping her daughter like and we know

748
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: she knows he's dangerous because she's keeping her biological daughter

749
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: away from him at all costs. But then she was like, oh,

750
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: well she I don't know, what are you know, I'm

751
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: not going to get in the way he had a

752
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: bad childhood. Well, just that begs the question that was

753
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: let him have his fun. That's frustrating me this time.

754
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, ma'am Jerry, you suck we totally. And

755
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: that also begs the question if I mean, it's established

756
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: with this flashback that she rescues him, has him live

757
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: in his you know, dungeon apartment or whatever, and then

758
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: so what's dungeon studio? I want to make more sense

759
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: that he was obsessed with Madame Jerry and like she

760
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: was the object of his affection because she liked him

761
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: Chase man, she's emotionally available and also, you know, women

762
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: over forties is not there for way before. He was

763
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: there for her for a little while, and he's like,

764
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: you've got too old. I made a sixteen year old also,

765
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: just like Miranda Richardson and Gerard Butler. So if they're

766
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: supposed to be the same age, then the phantom is yeah,

767
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean he would be like, well into his right,

768
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: how old is he in the book, like he's he's

769
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: about okay, Madame Jerry though there this was the first time,

770
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: and then I was like, oh, they're the way that

771
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: she's portrayed this movie does not bode well for that

772
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: character because it's like, oh, she's a poor guardian, she's

773
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: very complicit, and the fact that murders are taking place,

774
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 1: and then the whole keep the hand at the level

775
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: of I was like, what does that mean? I mean

776
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: if your hand so you're supposed to do this, you

777
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: supposed to literally keep your hand next to your head

778
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: because the pun so his like weapon of choice, is

779
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: like he'll try to noose you, but if your hand

780
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: is up, you can't noose you, and you can push

781
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: the pun. So it's like it's like I think it's

782
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: supposed to be like a whip in the book, but

783
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: they just make it a literal noose in the show,

784
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: which is like I'm gonna noose you, buddy, like that's

785
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: not a very good, you know, offensive weapon. No, it's

786
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: like get a knife there, Okay. In the Phantom's apartment

787
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: swamp next to his action figure swamp apartment actual figures

788
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: and also in addition, a bizarre edition and that's unique

789
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: to this version, plays with dolls. Dolls. He lives in

790
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 1: basically the sewer because there's waters the lake. The bathroom situation.

791
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: Just go outside. Literally, I'm just like a part where

792
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: like they're standing in water, like I mean, like Phantom, No,

793
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: the thing is like the opera has a like a drainage,

794
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: Like that's what that is. So because that's not you know,

795
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: it's it's a very you know, it's a very large building,

796
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: and so like the foundation requires there to be like

797
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: a drainage lake. So he builds a house next to

798
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: this lake. In the book, it actually has like running

799
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: water electricity because he's just that smart. So like in

800
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: the movie, they just kind of make it like a cave.

801
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: That is like he kind of threw some dropcloths, you know,

802
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: on the cave and some candles we're going to call

803
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: sexy Schumacher. Where does he poop Schumacher. It's like that,

804
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: it's like that episode of Bras City that Amy Saidaris

805
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: is in and she was like, where isn't the bathroom? Oh, Schumacher,

806
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: have you guys seen Love Never Dies? No? No, I haven't.

807
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: I've like actively avoided it for a long time. Okay,

808
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: So there's like twenty versions because they like it's terrible

809
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: and they keep work shopping it. But in the like

810
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: Madame Jerry and Meg, yeah, in the sequel they have

811
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: they both have like really beefed up parts, and like

812
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: Madame Jerry is like the Red Herring bad guy because

813
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: like she's jealous because like turns out the phantom has

814
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: a kid from the one time he and Christine did

815
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: the do and they fucked. Yeah, they sucked. They sucked

816
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: after the musical in it, like she came back and

817
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: she's like, hey, let's do it, and he's like yeah,

818
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: and then they do it and then he's like, oh,

819
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: I can't handle it and leaves and they have this

820
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: this like what a funck boy followed around and Love

821
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: Never Dies where they sing about how they sucked this

822
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: one time and then they described it in song why

823
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: did this never make it to Broadway? And then and

824
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: then he kind of puts two and two together, like

825
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: we sucked ten years ago, you have a ten year

826
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: old and then like Madam Jerry's like, no, he's gonna

827
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: take our inheritance. But then at the end of the

828
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: show it turns out Meg is the bad guy. What yeah,

829
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: and she like kidnaps the kid and she's gonna shoot it.

830
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 1: It's so funny because like the Phantom is talking her down.

831
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: Like the show ends at the Phantom talking Meg down,

832
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: and then Meg accidentally shoots Christine and Christine dies yes, yes,

833
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: and the fans like, na, oh, well, I guess I

834
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: get the kid as a constellation prize. And then it

835
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: ends actually, well, have never died. Why I'm so attached

836
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 1: to Christine. Yeah, You're saying all this stuff about Christine,

837
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you're not wrong. I'm really not wrong.

838
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: It's hard though, it's hard there, especially in this movie.

839
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: There's like because like I think there's also this sort

840
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: of like there's the discussion between overrepresentation of certain harmful

841
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: tropes and also certain harmful tropes that there is some

842
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: truth to you know, because you look at like the

843
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: story about this teenage girl that's just being led by

844
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: her nose by all these men and it's like, while

845
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: that is absolutely overdone, there's also a lot of truth

846
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: to that, you know, just like because that's just what happens,

847
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: especially in entertainment, you know, and because you see this

848
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: reflecting like the careers of so many like actresses and me,

849
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: Like I think of Kesha especially, who was just like

850
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: molded into this you know figure that wasn't her and

851
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: she didn't want to be and she they like you know,

852
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: created this public persona for her and she had to

853
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: live it for so many years. And the thing about Christine,

854
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of like why I think we

855
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: both a little protective of hers, Like there is some

856
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: truth to this for sure, and you know that's sort

857
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: of like it's sort of like a both thing where

858
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's so lame that she's so passive.

859
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you know, that's kind of

860
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: what coming of ages for a lot of women figuring

861
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: out like, oh my god, I have to do something

862
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: and make a choice because women are not socialized to

863
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: be active, you know. So I guess like I think

864
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: a little more in the stage version, not too much,

865
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: not to like act like the stage version is superior.

866
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: It's really not. I mean, it is, but it's not

867
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: story wise Christine, you know, it's just sort of her

868
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: coming into her own is sort of like she does

869
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: it in the only way she knows how, which is

870
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: to play Kate the murderer and considering the time period

871
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: as well. Like, I totally agree with you, because and

872
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: and then it just becomes the duty of the storyteller

873
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: and the filmmaker to frame that correctly and not glorify

874
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: the wrong parts. I think that we could sort of

875
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: maybe draw a comparison to Twilight here, where it's like

876
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: a young teenager who you know, young women are going

877
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: to plug themselves into. I mean, I remember doing that

878
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: with Fantom of the Opera and Twilight and then seeing

879
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: a very like sort of dangerous relationship developed, but have

880
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: the movie be like, but this is right, and that's

881
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: why this or that's why Andrew Lloyd Weber's version, not

882
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: the movie the musical is the most successful version of

883
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: Phantom was because it was he was the one that's like,

884
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: let's frame it as really sexy and let's make him

885
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: really simple, you know, sympathetic as a murderer can be.

886
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: And it's just like, you know, when you take a

887
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: step back and you're like, well, it's no wonder this

888
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: is the one that took off, But what does that

889
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: say about humanity and their taste and things? So like,

890
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: while I would agree that Christine is I mean, she's

891
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 1: not making any choices, and any sixteen year old girl

892
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: would have more of a personality than she has, or

893
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: would at least on the adopting like let's be honest,

894
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: like and I you know, and she she was again,

895
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: she was too young for the part. I'm sure there

896
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: are sixteen year olds out there that could have pulled

897
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: it off. But I think also like it's kind of

898
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: a testament to bad directing, Like Schumucker is a notoriously

899
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: bad director, and part of directing is training because you

900
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: can see, like you can see the direction in the

901
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: way that she's acting, like because he's you know, telling

902
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: her like you're seduced, you're entranced, and this is like

903
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: really like so she's just kind of clearly reacting off

904
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: of these very basic good direction and that's why she

905
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: looks the way she does. And because I feel like

906
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot you could do with that blank slate

907
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: if we had a better actor, right, it's very frustrating

908
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: to watch. She's really not that good in the movie. Man,

909
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: I was in chamber choir too. Yeah, I could have

910
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: been Christie. I can hit that high e Oh god,

911
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: Emmy Ross I'm playing that part the way she did

912
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: in a way that most teenage girls can sing. Or

913
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: it's just like you're deadly stating for talent shows for

914
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: the next several years. I'm just like, I can think

915
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: think of me like Emmy Rossum, of course you can't. Yeah,

916
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: where they're just like the h you know that really

917
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: her hitting the hind on and that one always sends

918
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: like a chill through my body because it's just not good.

919
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny how many fights I've been

920
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: in over that, like she's not good and they're like, well,

921
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: she's not supposed to be good. It's like voice of

922
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: an angel over here. It should not sound like a

923
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: gravel driveway, and the prima donna should sound better than

924
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: your high school chamber choir diva, Like right, holy no, no,

925
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: you don't get to pull that in this movie. Oh.

926
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 1: Another thing about those Christine and Carlotta is that Carlotta

927
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: is super jealous of Christine and they're sort of like

928
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: pitted against each other and like young hot women are

929
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: super threatening to older women. I feel like that's a

930
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: really it just perpetuate thing. It's just like perpetuate. I

931
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: want I want more of that because I think that's

932
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: really uh and creative. Let's see more of that. I've

933
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: been writing. It's really it's good. It's good writing, underrepresented

934
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: and it's good writing. Also, that was yeah, that was

935
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not an addition that's unique to the

936
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: Lloyd Webber version. They've been like because like she didn't

937
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: really care about Christine in the book, but that that's

938
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: been there as early as the Lawn Cheney version, right

939
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: where she's very strange a better but it's like you're

940
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: the best one, like you're she's fine. Carlotta and Christine.

941
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: I think it's, you know, a little bit of a

942
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: virgin horror trope word. It's more like Carlotta is decadent

943
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: and conceded and how did she become And it's funny

944
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: because like everyone, like especially in the movie, they play

945
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: up that like everybody hates her because she's arrogant, but

946
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: it's it's just like a she's pretty madonna for a reason.

947
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: She puts butts and seeds and b she doesn't seem

948
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: to do anything to actively offend people. But there's that

949
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: sea where she's like, you know the Prima Dona scene

950
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: where she's like chomping out and everybody's like mooning her

951
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: and being like good riddance, and it's like, this doesn't

952
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: make any sense. Why does everyone hate her? She's kind

953
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: of the reason that people have a job like gos.

954
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,240
Speaker 1: She's storming out again. Why why why are they acting

955
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: like this? I mean, well, to speak to all the

956
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: other female characters, they have just this little agency, I

957
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: would argue as Christine, because Meg basically does nothing. It

958
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: also bothered me that Christine whenever they were like, hey,

959
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: you should play Carlotta's part, and oh man, this is

960
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: what the phantom wants, so let's maybe do it, and

961
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: then she was never like, hey, wait a minute, let's

962
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: step back here for a second and like, maybe address

963
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: the problem of getting rid of this phantom rather than

964
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: just appeasing him for no fucking reason. Yeah, it was

965
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: crazy that they didn't have more of as a sixteen

966
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: year old girl, we probably should try to get rid

967
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: of him. It's just too dangerous, so let's just do

968
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: what he wants. That's like addressed several times of like

969
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: should we do to think about this? Like no, no, no, no, no, no,

970
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: you don't you don't do something about the fantaist. Do

971
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: you see the way he wiggles that chandelier A don't well,

972
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: And that's where like part of the function of Madame

973
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: Jerry's character is just every time someone offers a practical solution,

974
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: she's sort of just like, but you can't. And then

975
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: it's like, oh that. One of the last points I

976
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up was the because we just did

977
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 1: an episode on be for Vendetta the Trump the kidnapping

978
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: slash re education true kidnapping exactly, Yeah, yeah, kidnapping with

979
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: the intent being that I'm going to teach you and

980
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: you're going to be mine. And then you know, just

981
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: like uh, he's listening. I gave you music, you belong

982
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: to me, you owe me something, you owe me your

983
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: body and your talent and your presence, and it's just like, ah,

984
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: why are you falling for this? Right? And it's you know,

985
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: obviously done to a very selfish end. It barely has

986
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: anything to do with Christine at all. It sort of

987
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: seems like where he just you know, wants companionship and

988
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: wants hot companionship, and he should just fuck his wax doll.

989
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: I mean he for sure does, but he for sure

990
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: does that doll. Let's watch like smell the ngeled Phantom come.

991
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: Speaking of other other movies, I would argue that there

992
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: is a Titanic illusion in the beginning of Phantom, where

993
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: there's the big field, bear with me, Bear with Me.

994
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: There's a of the of the chandelier, and then that

995
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: all of a sudden is back. We're going to transition

996
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: into the it's so bad but whenever everything is like

997
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: dusty and shitty, and then it transitions into shiny look

998
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: at these yeah, statue nipples. That I think is a

999
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: direct allusion to when I'm Titanic, when there's a shot

1000
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: of like the old, gross, grimy underwater Titanic and then

1001
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: it fades into this like schumachers, like work for them,

1002
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: let's try it. There's also a sweeping romance. Yeah yeah, sure.

1003
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other final thoughts about the movie

1004
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: The Phantom of the Opera. I think that the two

1005
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 1: people who do very well in this movie are many

1006
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: drivers great. I think Patrick Wilson escapes unscathed and does

1007
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: as well as anyone could do in this movie. I'm

1008
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: also just like Patrick Wilson. He's good, but his characters, Yeah,

1009
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,439
Speaker 1: he's a he's a bland man. How about that he's

1010
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: kind of pushy and I don't care for him. What

1011
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: about that scene whenever she's sleeping in her room, gets

1012
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: up and then goes to the cemetery and he's just

1013
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,959
Speaker 1: like sleeping outside of her room. Why is he doing?

1014
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: Is he's looking? I guess he's like yeah. But that's

1015
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: that's why I would argue that that's a choice, because

1016
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: she sneaks past him, n't ask for permission before she

1017
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: she does make an active choice in that she doesn't

1018
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: really choose to rip his mask off. I forgot about that.

1019
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: Oh that is true, But again it makes a lot

1020
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: more sense. In the book, she does specifically tells her

1021
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: don't do this, so she's like, I think you've got

1022
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, I think I will actually get

1023
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: any sixteen year old girl thing to do, like, oh,

1024
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: you told me not to do that thing, Okay, But

1025
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: in the movies, both times it happens, it feels so unmotivated,

1026
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: like why is she doing? I also love the way

1027
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 1: it's like shot where he's just kind of like piano

1028
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: like ducking his head back and forth. And I mean

1029
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 1: it's really funny at the show because she like reaches

1030
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: and he'll kind of like duck away like to write

1031
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: something that's good stuff. They're revealing the movie so funny too,

1032
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: because it's like it's not that bad. Yeah, I don't know.

1033
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: I feel like because I say, like, definitely watch the

1034
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: Live at the Royal Elbart Hall version. It used to

1035
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: be on Netflix. Um, I think maybe it still as

1036
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: might be like on Amazon or something now because I

1037
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 1: watched it with one of my more cynical friends who

1038
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: had seen the Schumacher movie and that was all he

1039
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: had ever seen, and like after he left at that

1040
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: it was just like, you know what, I get it.

1041
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: It's not for me, but like I get the Phantom

1042
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: thing again because it is. It is honestly, like kind

1043
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: of impressive how much the movie fails to capture what

1044
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 1: worked about the show, even though it doesn't really change

1045
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: much about the story. I am just gonna go home

1046
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: and watch um Mulan Rouge the only musical I like,

1047
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: and South Park bigger, longer than on Cut everything else.

1048
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: I hate musicals. Hey, let's talk about whether or not

1049
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: the movie passes the Bechtel test. Okay, I'm going with no. Yeah,

1050
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: I don't think so either. There is a scene early

1051
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: on when Christine talks to Meg, but they're talking about Raoul.

1052
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: She's like, we were childhood sweethearts. He called me little

1053
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: Bloodie or whatever. I Then later on they have a

1054
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: song where Christine and Meg sing to each other and

1055
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: Christine is telling her about the Angel of Music, but

1056
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: they're talking about who she perceives to be a man

1057
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: who is sent Yeah, but she at this point doesn't

1058
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: know who he is and seems to never figure it

1059
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: out through the entire movie. There's a brief exchange between

1060
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: Madame Jerry and Christine. Oh, this is no it does

1061
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: pass because this is after her first performance where she

1062
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: takes Carlotta's place and Madame She's like, yeah, like you did,

1063
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: you did very well. He's very pleased. Madame Jerry is

1064
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: now my least favorite character in this entire Madame Jerry

1065
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: is just a whitewash because even that character in the

1066
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: original novel was a Persian guy who was never in

1067
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: any of the adaptations. Even in the Launcheney movie, they're

1068
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: like Psych. He's not actually Persian, he's a French guy.

1069
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: I love that reveal of like, actually they were white

1070
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: the whole time, like in the Hunchback. Yeah, she's she's white.

1071
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: It's cool. Yeah, this isn't like a hundred percent white.

1072
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: I don't think you see any people of color at

1073
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: any point, which is funny because in the original book

1074
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: that was not the case. There you see some non

1075
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: white people in the Phantom flashback, but they're the portrayal

1076
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: is not good. We're like, ha ha, you're gross. They

1077
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: were it was like the circus was run by Roma,

1078
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, I think that's also there and all

1079
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: of them, some of them. There's one book that like

1080
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: I despise in every Phantom every other Fantom fan loves,

1081
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: called Just Phantom by Susan Kay and it's in the

1082
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: romance novel section. And for you, I know you're out

1083
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 1: there getting mad. I could feel you're anger. I don't

1084
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: care like um Boy because like during his time with

1085
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: the you know, they used the g slur the Roma

1086
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: they like kidnap him, putting into circus and there's one

1087
00:59:53,280 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: named Javert who like tries to rape him and it's Wolf. Okay, Well, Okay,

1088
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: so that's a hard no. Yeah, oh they love it.

1089
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: The girls love it so much. Yeah, I don't. I

1090
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: mean if women talk in the movie, they're always talking

1091
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: about either Rale or her daddy or the phantom. I

1092
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: don't think there's an exchange about something that's not any

1093
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: of those people. So does not pass the test unsurprisingly. Um,

1094
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: let's write the movie on our would actually say surprisingly,

1095
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: but musicals are usually a lot better about that. Yeah,

1096
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: and also no shortage of opportunity, even like from an

1097
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: adaptation point, like we never hear any of the many

1098
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: female dancers we see all the time, any of female

1099
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: chorus members, and they were missed opportunities sort of scattered.

1100
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: When I say unsurprisingly, I mean more that this movie

1101
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: is not good to women or does not portray them

1102
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: in a strong specifically to Oh, he sure doesn't have

1103
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: dark guys at a right right. Put the corset on

1104
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: the outside, Captain Underpin, you're bad. Um let's write the

1105
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: movie on a nipple scale, where we rate the movie

1106
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on

1107
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 1: its portrayal of women. I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna

1108
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: say a half nimble because hey, great, that there is

1109
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: a woman in the story, even more than one, there's several,

1110
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: so that's pretty much the only positive thing about it.

1111
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: Apart from that, it's a movie about a young woman,

1112
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: again being gas lit by every person around her, being

1113
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: seduced by an old creep. She is the object of

1114
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: his affection emphasis on object because she's really literally he

1115
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: literally objectifies her in the real like he turns her

1116
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: into object. Yeah. So, and there's a dress and she

1117
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: h she fainted and then she wakes up and she's like, actually,

1118
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: I could see myself hanging out with him again. Yeah,

1119
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: he's my angel of music. It was just a bad

1120
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: first impression, right, yeah yah yeah yeah yeah. So that

1121
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: and then her having no agency, no specific desire in

1122
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: the story, despite the fact that she's supposed to be

1123
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: the protagonist of the movie, the character that we're you know,

1124
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: rooting for and plugging ourselves into and all that stuff,

1125
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: we have no idea what she wants. We hardly see

1126
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: her make any active choices or do anything. Decisions are

1127
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: either made for her or she just does fucking nothing

1128
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: and just stands by and watches. And then all the

1129
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: other female characters are similarly useless. Therefore, one half nipple.

1130
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: It belongs to the shiny um golden statue nipple that

1131
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: we see in this I just want to draw a parallel.

1132
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: But between h Christine meeting the phantom and then meeting

1133
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: someone that you met online. He's like talking through the

1134
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: wall and she's like he sounds great. He says, oh,

1135
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: he's nice. He thinks I'm so pretty, and then you

1136
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: meet him. He was like, he's a murderer. Dolls. But

1137
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, then you see them, You're like, oh, for

1138
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: sure you have a sword collection. For sure, you fucked dolls.

1139
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about your katanas, sir. That's

1140
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 1: I can think of three different examples of like going

1141
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: to a man's house for the first time and being like, Okay,

1142
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: there's a sword. I better just see myself out. Yeah,

1143
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: hard to pass. I'm gonna. I'm sorry. I'm gonna given

1144
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: of the amper two thousand and four dranted my jewel shoemaker.

1145
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: Did you give it any more than zero nipples? I'm

1146
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: gonna be furious. I'm gonna give it two nipples. I'm

1147
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: gonna do it, and I don't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

1148
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. First of all, I'm sorry. You know what,

1149
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry because Okay,

1150
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: Madame Jerry, especially in this movie, Garbage really like upset

1151
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: with her Meg nothing to do, We we don't know. Carlotta,

1152
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 1: I think, is a good character who's mistreated by the story,

1153
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: is particularly in this adaptation where she's just receiving abuse

1154
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: from angry poor people confusing. Um. So I like Carlotta,

1155
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: and I do like I think that Christine sort of

1156
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: in this movie in particular, uh and and in the

1157
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,439
Speaker 1: stage adaptation, suffers from the same thing that Bella Swan

1158
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: suffers from, where she is a very clear figure that

1159
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: a young audience can plug themselves into sort of reacts

1160
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: to a lot of things, I think, and not too

1161
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: dissimilar to a way a teenage girl would. But then

1162
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: all the bad things that are happening to her are

1163
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: framed as good things, are romantic romanticizes her being like

1164
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: just give it, just oh, and even to the abuse

1165
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: the first you're gonna want to marry them, you know,

1166
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: Like so it sucks to see not realistic, but like

1167
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 1: a clear avatar that people can plug themselves into, have

1168
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: all the bad ship that happens to them framed as like,

1169
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I just give up. That's fine. But I'm

1170
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm I gotta give it two nipples. I have to,

1171
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: I have to. Well, then I take back my happen

1172
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: and I'm giving it zero just when we averaged out.

1173
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: It's just like worse than so many of the movies

1174
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: that we've seen them. That's what I'm thinking. It's like,

1175
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: what is the scale here, because if it's not a

1176
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: scale of all movies, you know, right where it's like

1177
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: there's so many. Maybe I'm biased because I hated this

1178
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: movie so much, for sure, but there's like I mean

1179
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: I feel like if this movie is zero nipples, then

1180
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: Twilight would have to certainly. I think I gave Twilight

1181
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: pretty close to zero nipples. I mean we didn't give

1182
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: it a lot. I gave Transformers. I think zeros like yeah, yeah,

1183
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: that's right. I don't know because like to me, zero

1184
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: nimbles would be like Transformers three, you know, like, because

1185
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: I'm just like compared to that, I'm like, woit, this

1186
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: is pretty good, you guys. I don't know what you're

1187
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: talking about because I watched a lot of Transformers, which

1188
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: is a great series. Check. Oh yeah, the whole place,

1189
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: the whole place my serious about film theory and Transformers

1190
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: very good. It's great, lots of lots of things I

1191
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: had certainly never thought about it regards to Transformers. Think

1192
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: about Transformers a lot. I think on the scale of

1193
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: movies we've covered here, it certainly does not do well.

1194
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, I think we're biased

1195
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: in opperst directions. I'm certainly biased in wanting to give

1196
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: it more nipples than it deserves because I love it.

1197
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: Phantom rules. I'm going to see it again. I'll see

1198
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: the movie again. I'll see the stage adaptation again. But

1199
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: I recognize that, you know, feminist icon Phantom of the Opera.

1200
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: I think not no, no, no, no, two nipples. Christine

1201
01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: gets the nipples right. Yeah again, And for aforementioned reasons

1202
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: where if like zero is Transformers three, I'm gonna have

1203
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: to go with two and a half for reasons that

1204
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: you outlined, Like Karlotta, actually no, I'm gonna go back

1205
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: down to two because I feel like stage show, I'd

1206
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: give more because Carlotta doesn't receive that and just abuse

1207
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: and like is a little more. I mean, there's a

1208
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: lot of strange decisions in that. But you know, I

1209
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: think the fact that Christine is just sort of like

1210
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: a cipher in this or you know, as a huge disservice.

1211
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like, man, there's a

1212
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: lot of really bad representations out there on the grand scheme.

1213
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's better than Twilight. It is better than

1214
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: a Twilight. I don't know. I think it's about around

1215
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: the same. Really. I feel like that ending though, because

1216
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: like she she ends up with Edward, she does not

1217
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: end up with the Phantom, right right, But then she

1218
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: ends up with Raoul, who had also been gaslighting her

1219
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: and like being all weird, and he's like, you're a woman,

1220
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: so I need to protect you. And also there is

1221
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: no Phantom of the Opera, you're crazy. But also the man.

1222
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: Give the man some room to you know, be wrong.

1223
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: He can't be perfect and have room to grow. It

1224
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: changes my view of Rowl a little bit. That they're

1225
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: supposed to be the same age. I think that that's

1226
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: another sort of thing that is almost never true in

1227
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,439
Speaker 1: the stage version or and certainly not in the movie version,

1228
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: where they never appear to be the same age. In reality,

1229
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 1: if they are, you know, suspend your disbelief. Patrick Wilson

1230
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 1: an Emmy rosmore the same age. Sure that makes role

1231
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: a little more palatable. I mean I still don't like

1232
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: the character. And yeah, because like there's no there is

1233
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: no role fandom in the grand like everyone, there's no

1234
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: team role. There's it's funny. Well, gang, that was a

1235
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: fan of the opera episode. I hope you liked it.

1236
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: I am so glad we did it. Yeah, I really

1237
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us, thank you for having me,

1238
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: and of all the topics, I'm glad it was this one.

1239
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: And where where can people find you online? Well, I

1240
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 1: like on YouTube, it's my name on YouTube is just

1241
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 1: my name is Lindsay Ellis. You can also find me

1242
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter at at the Lindsay Ellis awesome. Yeah, you

1243
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 1: can follow us on all the platforms Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,

1244
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: everything at Bechtel Cast. You can donate to our Patreon.

1245
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: If you do, it's five dollars a month and you

1246
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: get to bonus episodes a month of the podcast. Yeah,

1247
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,719
Speaker 1: you can go to patreon dot com slash becktel Cast

1248
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: to do that. We strongly encourage it because it helps

1249
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: with our production costs and then we have great bonus

1250
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: episodes for you guys, the fans with pH I love it.

1251
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: I love it. Also, you should go to our live show. God,

1252
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: oh my words, oh heavens to Betsy. Wait, what is

1253
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: Kathy Bates and stripes? God, almighty, God, Ald God Almight.

1254
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: What we're trying to say is that we have a

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01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: live show in Los Angeles. We sure do at the

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01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 1: Nerdus Showroom at Mailtdown Comics. Yeah, we're sitting on top

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Speaker 1: of it right now. It's on Saturday, December two at

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01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: seven pm. Yes, we have a guest. Her name is

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01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 1: Debora di Giovanni. You know where you love her. She's

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01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: one of our most popular episodes of all time. Love actually,

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01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:23,959
Speaker 1: but this time we're talking with her about Die High,

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01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,799
Speaker 1: a Christmas movie that's dripping with masculinity. Oh, we cannot

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01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:34,560
Speaker 1: wait to and scream. So if you're in so cow Baby,

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01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: check it out. Can't say baby, dude, it's so cowed

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01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: baby rock on surfers and also longboards. Yeah, that's what

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01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 1: they say every time they talk about the area we

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01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: call a so cow Baby. So if you're there in

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Speaker 1: that area, please come to our live show. Um tickets

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01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: only ten dollars, and if you do come bring some

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01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: feminine hygiene products because We're going to donate them to

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01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: an organization called Project Caged Birds. They do a lot

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Speaker 1: of help with like victim advocacy of intimate partner abuse,

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01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: So we love that organization. So please, yes, bring something

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Speaker 1: with you and come to the goddamn show. You're gonna

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01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: have a blast. It's gonna be We've got a special,

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01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of treats planned treats. You might

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Speaker 1: get a free movie ticket out of it. Not to

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01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 1: spoil anything, but we talked about it yesterday and this

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01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 1: time we made a plan. So hot brags we are.

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Speaker 1: We're trying up here. We're prepared. Can't wait to try

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Speaker 1: up your Season two Saturday, December second. Yeah, see the

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Speaker 1: fine