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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's March twenty third, and guess what.

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Speaker 2: We have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker

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Speaker 2: here as always with Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

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Speaker 2: We have Tahar, our producer in the hot seat, and

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Speaker 2: we just have Sam Work in.

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Speaker 3: The boards right now.

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Speaker 2: So if you want to call him eight eight eight

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Speaker 2: three to one crime because listen, we have a huge

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Speaker 2: show ahead and a stacked night of headlines. The Air

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Speaker 2: Force General with access to classified information about UFOs. We

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Speaker 2: discussed this a few weeks ago. He is still missing.

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Speaker 2: He's completely vanished. And now there's a second signist being

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Speaker 2: added to this list and they've had some crossover. Also,

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Speaker 2: Bill Cosby back in court civil lawsuit. The woman who

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Speaker 2: accused him of sexual abuse has now been awarded over

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Speaker 2: nineteen million dollars and guess what fifty three years later.

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Speaker 2: So justice might be slow, but there is so much

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Speaker 2: to unpack there. Also, we have a very special guest tonight.

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Speaker 2: We have Attorney David Ryan. He's going to join us

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Speaker 2: to discuss the rise of online threats, something we've been

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Speaker 2: talking about so so much recently. So he's going to

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Speaker 2: give us some actionable advice and also some disturbing allegations

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Speaker 2: that are really reshaping the legacy of civil rights icon

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Speaker 2: Caesar Chavez.

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Speaker 3: I even get worked up as I'm talking about it.

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Speaker 2: So real action happening in this case as well, so

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Speaker 2: so much to talk about. Keep those talkbacks coming. If

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Speaker 2: you haven't left one recently, please do. And if remember,

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Speaker 2: there is swag written all over it. So ladies, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 3: Happy Monday.

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Speaker 4: Today it was a real Monday exactly. But now we

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Speaker 4: are here, I'm excited. We have a lot to dig

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Speaker 4: against you tonight.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes a Monday can be a Sunday, Senior, or it

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Speaker 2: is a straight Monday.

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Speaker 5: And maybe today we call it Friday the sixth, like

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Speaker 5: Henry the sixth. Right, it's Friday the sixth, and then

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Speaker 5: tomorrow will be Friday the fifth, and then we'll get.

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Speaker 6: All the way down to one and boom, there you.

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Speaker 3: Go, it's Friday.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's just count those blessings that hopefully you are

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Speaker 2: not online at an airport right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm battling through that. Wows have been ringing all day.

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Speaker 2: We've had people that work with us that are being

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Speaker 2: grounded at airports and it's really just a mess.

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Speaker 3: You know, TSA is not getting paid and as.

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Speaker 2: A result, people understandably have to call in and now

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Speaker 2: they're worried for losing their health insurance. It's been over

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Speaker 2: a month, so they're shorthanded during spring break in a

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Speaker 2: very very popular travel time and the lines could.

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Speaker 3: Be up to four hours.

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Speaker 2: But the good news is apparently ice is the answer,

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Speaker 2: which you know, we shall see how that all shakes out.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's all what like homeland security, right, like it

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Speaker 5: all falls under homeland security. So maybe maybe right, maybe

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Speaker 5: there's some crossover training there, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean training being the operative word there, because

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Speaker 2: it doesn't appear that they've had too much TSA training

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Speaker 2: or training like X rays.

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Speaker 3: Yeah the end, So.

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Speaker 2: Listen, our hearts are with the TSA agents. Though, who

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Speaker 2: are apps who are really showing up for free? And again,

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Speaker 2: I know we say this all the time, working for

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Speaker 2: free for what thirty eight days now or something there's

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Speaker 2: no real end in sight, and yeah, I don't even

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Speaker 2: have words for it. And anybody who is serving us

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Speaker 2: right now throughout the world, all of our servicemen and women,

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Speaker 2: we are thinking of you. We are praying with you

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Speaker 2: and for you, and thank you from the bottom of

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Speaker 2: our hearts.

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Speaker 3: And get home safe, please, that's right.

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Speaker 5: So speaking of working for you in the government and whatnot,

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Speaker 5: right this retired Air Force general, we're gonna go. We've

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Speaker 5: been talking about this for a hot minute, but it

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Speaker 5: seems to be gaining some momentum, you know, like it

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Speaker 5: seems to be gaining some momentum. So for our listeners,

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Speaker 5: maybe that missed the last couple of times we've talked

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Speaker 5: about it.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna tell it.

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Speaker 5: From A to Z because when it first came out,

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Speaker 5: we we were I think live when the news broke

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Speaker 5: that he was missing, so we talked about it a

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Speaker 5: little bit, but we didn't really have a lot of information,

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Speaker 5: and then the next time we talked about it, it

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Speaker 5: was just an update. So we're going to do from

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Speaker 5: start to finish, you know, excellent little ketchup, great, really

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Speaker 5: smarttle ketch up, a little set the table so that

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Speaker 5: when we talk about it in the future. The table

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Speaker 5: has been set, right. Okay, so this retired era Air

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Speaker 5: Force he was a major for it. I guess he

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Speaker 5: was right. He was a major general. His name is

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Speaker 5: William Neil McCasland. Okay, no been missing for nearly a

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Speaker 5: month after vanishing from his home in Albertquerque, New Mexico,

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Speaker 5: and investigators are describing this as a narrow and unexplained

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Speaker 5: window of time. And I'm going to get into that

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Speaker 5: in a minute. McCaslin, who he once led the Air

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Speaker 5: Force Research Laboratory. You guys like this is a smart cookie.

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Speaker 5: This guy he led the Air Force Research Laboratory. Just

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Speaker 5: let that sink in. It's one of the military's most

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Speaker 5: advanced science and technology divisions, and he had access to

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Speaker 5: highly sensitive aerospace and defense programs. Now, since he went missing,

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Speaker 5: there have been no confirmed sightings of him leaving his home.

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Speaker 5: There's no digital trail and almost no physical evidence pointing

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Speaker 5: to where he went missing. Right and then and then

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Speaker 5: there's a second disappearance that we were talking about that

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Speaker 5: might be kind of tied to this one. We're going

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Speaker 5: to get a second however, We're going to go over

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Speaker 5: the timeline of mccaslin's disappearance. First, Okay, so he went

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Speaker 5: missing on February twenty seventh, sometime between late morning and

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Speaker 5: early afternoon. His wife went out, she was running errands

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Speaker 5: and doing things, and when she came home, he was gone. Now,

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Speaker 5: investigators have narrowed it down to a one hour window.

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Speaker 5: He went missing in one hour. So authorities say there's

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Speaker 5: no surveillance footage. There's no doorbell video or neighborhood camera

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Speaker 5: evidence showing him leaving the house. His cell phone and

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Speaker 5: all his wearables were left behind, you know, eliminating the

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Speaker 5: ability to ping him somehow, right, like track his movements

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Speaker 5: or you know at you know, find me on your

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Speaker 5: Apple device, nothing like that. There's no way we can

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Speaker 5: electronically find him, right, He doesn't have his Apple Watch,

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Speaker 5: he doesn't have a device with a you know, tracker

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Speaker 5: on it.

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Speaker 3: Nothing.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't have his eyeglasses either, right, his cell phone, yeah,

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Speaker 2: his glasses.

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Speaker 5: So at the same time, there there are certain personal

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Speaker 5: items that are missing as well, so a wallet and

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Speaker 5: a backpack and a firearm. And this is creating some

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Speaker 5: conflicting signals about whether he left voluntarily or under unusual circumstances. Right, So,

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Speaker 5: despite you know, extensive search efforts, including involvement from the FBI.

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Speaker 6: They've they've deployed drones, ground teams.

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Speaker 5: There have been no confirmed sightings of him since that day.

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Speaker 2: So and you'll remember his wife had spoken out, and

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Speaker 2: his wife spoke out and kind of really kind of

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Speaker 2: hushed the idea of this being maybe connected to some

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Speaker 2: of the secret information.

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Speaker 3: He may be pretty too.

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Speaker 2: And she even made sort of a you know, a

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Speaker 2: you know, dark humor kind of a joke about, well,

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Speaker 2: I guess he may have been, you know, taken by alien.

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Speaker 2: They they might have beamed him up. That would, you know,

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Speaker 2: make as much sense as anything at this point.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, there really is.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I find it interesting that it's not

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Speaker 2: on the front page of everything. This is somebody who's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a national treasure. He's worked very hard

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Speaker 2: for the United States government. Apps they should find him.

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Speaker 2: Like this should be all hands on deck, Nancy Guthrie style.

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Speaker 2: We are smart, we are masses, we care, we are capable.

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Speaker 3: Let's find him.

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Speaker 5: They have deployed you know, expansive search teams, and they've

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Speaker 5: combed areas surrounding Albuquerque, including like really remote desert train

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Speaker 5: and like hiking zones, but again they haven't confirmed any

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Speaker 5: trace of him. But a piece of clothing was recovered

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Speaker 5: during the search, but authorities haven't confirmed whether it belongs

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Speaker 5: to him or not. But from my recollection, it was

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Speaker 5: like a gray sweatshirt that had air force right across it.

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Speaker 5: Officials haven't disclosed any condition or any details about the

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Speaker 5: condition of the house, like we don't know like did

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Speaker 5: they go in and wor things disarray. You know, they

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Speaker 5: haven't given us any information on any of the forensic

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Speaker 5: findings or whether or not there was like a sign

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Speaker 5: of disturbance, you know, like we're we're closed strewn about

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Speaker 5: from the dresser and I think we have been. You know,

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Speaker 5: these are key elements that remain unclear right now. Law

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Speaker 5: enforcement also has not publicly identified any persons of interest

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Speaker 5: or suspects obviously, and they haven't clarified whether or not

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Speaker 5: the case of being treated as criminal yet.

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Speaker 4: If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight,

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Speaker 4: and we are so glad you are with us. I'm

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Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong here with Stephanie Leidecker and body movin. We

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Speaker 4: love to hear from you always and are at eight

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Speaker 4: A eight three one Crime Sam is in the studio

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Speaker 4: to take your calls at any time, and we are

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Speaker 4: talking about the disappearance of William near Mcastland and it's

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Speaker 4: now going into several weeks where he has been gone.

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Speaker 4: I had a question body, which is that a firearm

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Speaker 4: was with him? But I have read so many me too,

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Speaker 4: so many varying reports. I feel like that piece of

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Speaker 4: coverage is hasn't been clear from what.

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Speaker 3: I've been reading.

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Speaker 5: So last week when we were talking about it, I

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Speaker 5: had mentioned that the law enforcement said that the firearm

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Speaker 5: and the wallet were in the home, And you guys

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Speaker 5: are like what, And I was like, yeah, I'm reading

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Speaker 5: it right now, and I was literally reading it for

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Speaker 5: all one of the news sources. So after that night,

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Speaker 5: you know, we went and looked and there's conflicting reports

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Speaker 5: right now. In fact, right before going live tonight, Taha

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Speaker 5: was on the phone with the sheriff's office trying to

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Speaker 5: get clarification on this because it's a really big this

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Speaker 5: is a really big shill. This is like either the

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Speaker 5: gun was there or it wasn't. But again we don't

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Speaker 5: have any clarification. There are there's many credible websites and

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Speaker 5: you know, by websites, I mean news outlets that are

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Speaker 5: saying that it wasn't and some and I don't know,

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Speaker 5: maybe it's just the way they're wording it that's a

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Speaker 5: little bit confusing, But there is some confusion there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like even just right now, the New York Post

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Speaker 2: is reporting that he left with his boots, his wallet,

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Speaker 2: and a revolver. By the way, leaving your home with

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Speaker 2: a revolver is very intentional. So he's going on a

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Speaker 2: walk or a hike without his wallet or with his wallet,

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Speaker 2: but without his phone and his eyeglasses. Yet you're taking

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Speaker 2: your wallet and your revolver, right, those seem important details.

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Speaker 2: Those I leave the house every second. If it were me,

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Speaker 2: the phone and the eyeglasses would never be with me,

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Speaker 2: and I would have forgotten them and would be looking

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Speaker 2: for those. I have a sneaking suspicion this guy is not,

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Speaker 2: you know, absent minded. He doesn't have any signs of dementia,

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Speaker 2: according to his wife, and his wife exactly, there was

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Speaker 2: nothing depressing happening in his world. But to walk out

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Speaker 2: of the house with your boots and your wallet and

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Speaker 2: a revolver, you know, Initially, I thought, oh, maybe he

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Speaker 2: to try to take his own life or something really tragic.

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Speaker 5: Well, because that's what it implies. If he took his

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Speaker 5: wallet and his revolver, right, and that's it. It implies

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Speaker 5: that he left the home to you know, he's bringing

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Speaker 5: his ID for identification, right, and his gun for you know,

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Speaker 5: sad situation. So yeah, it's a very important detail that

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Speaker 5: we're still looking for clarification on. But I wanted to

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Speaker 5: talk about the second disappearance if we could real quick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So this is an.

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Speaker 6: Interesting crossover with David of all things.

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Speaker 3: Right, So David the pop star, you were refering David

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Speaker 3: the pop.

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Speaker 5: Star like you wouldn't expect me to say that. However,

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Speaker 5: there is a six degrees of separation here kind of.

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Speaker 5: So the second disappearance involves a high level a high

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Speaker 5: level woman. She was a rocket scientist and her name

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Speaker 5: is Monica Reza, and she had professional ties to this

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Speaker 5: Air Force General William McCaslin. And she also disappeared under

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Speaker 5: unusual circumstances prior to this case. So Monica was last

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Speaker 5: seen on June twenty second of last year, so just

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Speaker 5: over the summer, around nine am. She was hiking near

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Speaker 5: Mount Waterman in California's Angels National Forest. Well, she vanished

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Speaker 5: during the hike and has not been seen or heard

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Speaker 5: from since. Literally, the person in front of her was

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Speaker 5: talking to her, stepped forward a little bit, turned around,

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Speaker 5: and she was not there, and they haven't seen her since. So,

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Speaker 5: just like the Air Force General, her disappearance has been

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Speaker 5: left very little physical evidence, with no clear trail explaining

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Speaker 5: where either of them went. Okay, And because of these ties, right, well,

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Speaker 5: guess who worked on this case. I'm guessing DAVID'SI the

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Speaker 5: PI right that has been hired by David's landlord, also

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Speaker 5: worked on Monica's case. And he he said, you know

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Speaker 5: that he has seen several reports comparing the two disappearances

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Speaker 5: right between Monica and you know, Monica Reza from the

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Speaker 5: JPL scientist and General Macaslon.

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Speaker 6: And here's what he said.

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Speaker 5: I have seen several news reports comparing the disappearance of

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Speaker 5: General Macassland to that of Monica Reza, a JPL scientist

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Speaker 5: who previously worked on top secret projects. I was heavily

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Speaker 5: involved in the search for Monica from the beginning and

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Speaker 5: continued until weather conditions forced us to stop last winter.

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Speaker 5: I probably spent thirty separate days searching for her and

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Speaker 5: spoke extensively with the group she was hiking with that day.

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Speaker 5: I am completely confident that there is no connection between

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Speaker 5: the two cases other than the fact that they both

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Speaker 5: worked in similar fields. I planned to begin assisting with

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Speaker 5: the search again in the coming weeks, and I I

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Speaker 5: hope we will finally locate her in the treacherous terrain

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Speaker 5: where she disappeared. So isn't that interesting though, because yeah,

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Speaker 5: we were just looking about you know, Listen, Steve Fisher

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Speaker 5: has been working on missing persons cases for decades. I

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Speaker 5: think he's located something like thirty people. So if he

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Speaker 5: says there's no connection, I tend to agree with him,

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Speaker 5: and I probably sound like a little bit of a simp.

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Speaker 3: I'm not.

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Speaker 5: I just do trust his instincts when it comes to

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Speaker 5: missing people.

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Speaker 3: What is it? Simp? What is that?

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Speaker 5: It's like somebody who if you sit like I simp

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Speaker 5: for you, Stephanie, that means you can never do any wrong.

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Speaker 4: By the way, Okay, that was nice, Yes, stick around.

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Speaker 3: When we come back, we're.

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Speaker 4: Going to talk about the fact that a jury awarded

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Speaker 4: millions of dollars in a decade's old Bill Cosby case.

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Speaker 3: Keep it here, true grime tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as

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Speaker 2: always with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So listen,

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Speaker 2: we will get to some new developments in Bachelor Nation,

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Speaker 2: some more fallout. Since the conversation last night, We've gotten

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Speaker 2: so many talkbacks and calls and dms, so we will

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Speaker 2: get to those, and we will keep those coming. But

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Speaker 2: also this landmark decision civilly speaking against Bill Cosby for

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Speaker 2: nineteen point five million dollars a civil lawsuit from fifty

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Speaker 2: three years ago. It's like wild listen. Sometimes justice does

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Speaker 2: take a long time. But I am so I don't

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Speaker 2: know what the word is. Excited isn't the right word?

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Speaker 2: But glad, I suppose or relieved that we're seeing some justice. Courtney,

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Speaker 2: do you want to fill us in sort of in

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Speaker 2: the backstory here?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely so this civil verdict against Bill Cosby, as you said,

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Speaker 4: it's nineteen point five million that's been awarded to a plaintiff,

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Speaker 4: Donna Mott Singer, and she filed the civil lawsuit in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, in which she accuses Cosby of drugging

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Speaker 4: and sexually assaulting her back in nineteen seventy two. At

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Speaker 4: the time, she was working as a waitress in Salsildo.

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Speaker 4: And what's kind of wonderful aside from this woman Mott

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Speaker 4: Singer getting her comeuppance, you know what, is due to her,

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Speaker 4: it's also bringing renewed attention to these decades old allegations

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Speaker 4: and it's raising new questions about accountability. Years after Bill

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Speaker 4: Cosby's criminal conviction was overturned, do you guys remember that

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Speaker 4: fact of.

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Speaker 5: Course, yes, oh yeah, because it was a non prosecutorial agreement.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And so Bill Cosby has been free walking around

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Speaker 4: except for when he is embroiled in depth positions, which

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Speaker 4: is quite a bit of his time. So a little

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Speaker 4: bit more about this specific case. Donna Martins had says

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Speaker 4: that Bill Cosby invited her to one of his shows.

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Speaker 4: He gave her wine and a pill that she thought

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Speaker 4: was aspirin. However, she became disoriented and lost consciousness, waking

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Speaker 4: up in her own bed wearing only her underwear and

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Speaker 4: believing she had been assaulted. And this is one of

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Speaker 4: the oldest claims that's now being heard in court, and

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Speaker 4: this is under revived legal windows.

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Speaker 3: Which is a big deal.

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Speaker 2: He also, in a deposition previously, had in fact said

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Speaker 2: that he had been giving her and perhaps others quayludes.

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Speaker 2: So quayludes, you know, again a little bit before my time.

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Speaker 2: But those were a straight up pill that made you.

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Speaker 2: It was a drug, right that was used I assume socially,

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Speaker 2: but could also cause you to be disoriented and really

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Speaker 2: knocked unconscious kind of the way maybe GHB or some

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Speaker 2: of the more street drugs that you see today.

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Speaker 3: Where people are getting roofeed.

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Speaker 2: But essentially he roofeed her with a kualude and then yeah,

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Speaker 2: took advantage of her. And imagine all these years has

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Speaker 2: passed and now he's finally going to see some action,

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Speaker 2: and of course it has to be the wallet.

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Speaker 4: And absolutely, and the only reason this lawsuit was allowed

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Speaker 4: was under California's Sexual Abuse and Cover Up Accountability Act,

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Speaker 4: and that act temporary temporarily lifts the statute of limitations

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Speaker 4: for older cases. So I call that a big win,

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Speaker 4: even though obviously no one should have to go through

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Speaker 4: this all the captain obvious stuff, but again, a little

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Speaker 4: bit of justice five decades plus later.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this excuse me.

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Speaker 4: There are more and sixty other women who have accused

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Speaker 4: Bill Cosby of very very similar sexual misconduct over all

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Speaker 4: these decades, and the vast majority have never been prosecuted criminally.

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Speaker 3: And we're not surprised.

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Speaker 2: I mean, cut to now twenty twenty six, and we're

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Speaker 2: seeing whether it's in the Epstein files where a minimum

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Speaker 2: of one two hundred girls were sexually abused. Pam BONDI

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Speaker 2: just said this open air, you know, in front of

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Speaker 2: a hearing, that that is not up for dispute. Yet

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Speaker 2: still no charges have been done. If you look back

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Speaker 2: on Bill Cosby, can you imagine fifty three years ago,

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Speaker 2: how difficult it must have been for a young woman

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Speaker 2: to come forward to say that a celebrity assaulted her

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Speaker 2: like it didn't happen, and nobody really believed anybody. Sixty

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Speaker 2: women have come forward for Bill Cosby, and he comes

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Speaker 2: over there on his little rocker, coming in looking all elderly,

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Speaker 2: kind of like Diddy did when he went to trial.

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Speaker 2: These are abusers, and I feel slightly hopeful, and by

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Speaker 2: slightly I mean very hopeful that we are seeing a

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Speaker 2: title wave. A title wave is hitting where the light

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Speaker 2: is coming out from the dark period. And now you

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Speaker 2: know it might take a second, it might be a

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Speaker 2: slow drip, but nineteen point five million dollars is an

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Speaker 2: astounding settlement and long overdue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and ps you said, look and old Bill Cosby

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Speaker 4: is at this point eighty eight years old, so he's

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Speaker 4: he's pretty old.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm sorries though he doesn't apologize for anything, you know, Weinstein,

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Speaker 2: you know, sits down to do a nice little interview

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Speaker 2: behind bars. There's no there's no you know, apology, there's

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Speaker 2: no remorse. There's no regret for the behavior. The regret

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Speaker 2: is that they have been publicly shamed or in some

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Speaker 2: cases shamed and released.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's not as though people have completely ostracized them, and

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Speaker 2: if they.

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Speaker 4: Have, it's deserved, warranted, absolutely anyway. So that's what we'll

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Speaker 4: call the good news. And as you said, Stephanie, maybe

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Speaker 4: this is you know, one more peg in the board

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Speaker 4: to get us toward justice for all body.

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Speaker 3: What do you know.

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Speaker 4: About another bachelorette issues.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how much more I can take of this, Honestly,

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Speaker 5: I can take it a lot. I don't know how

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Speaker 5: I like, I need not to be talking about the Bachelorette,

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Speaker 5: but I'm heavily invested. So here, here we are I

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Speaker 5: really am invested in this scandal? So there's been another scandal,

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Speaker 5: you guys in the Bachelor. What do you want to

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Speaker 5: call it?

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Speaker 6: The bachelor'sphear, Bachelor Nation, Bachelor Nation. Okay, let's let's do that. Bachelination. Well,

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Speaker 6: this one's.

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Speaker 5: Tied to a former contestant named James McCoy Taylor. All right,

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Speaker 5: and he's again in some legal trouble. Right, So he

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Speaker 5: first appeared on season twelve of The Bachelorette. So past

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Speaker 5: your time, Steph, Right.

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Speaker 2: I was season two in season one of the Bachelorette,

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Speaker 2: So okay, this is one hundred years ago, and it

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Speaker 2: was a very tight ship at that time, like Cassier

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Speaker 2: special was like they were not grading on a curve.

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Speaker 3: Which maybe has changed a bit over time.

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Speaker 5: Well, so this was in twenty sixteen when he was

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Speaker 5: on the Bachelorette and the bachelor at the time was

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Speaker 5: Jojoe Fletcher. Well, he's been arrested again, because he's been

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Speaker 5: arrested before, but he's been arrested again in connection to

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Speaker 5: an assault case involving a teenage girl. And this Kate

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Speaker 5: states back to twenty twenty four and he pled guilty

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Speaker 5: already and he made a deal. But with this latest arrest,

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Speaker 5: the case that brought him to this is now back

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Speaker 5: in the spotlight. So he first rose to national attention

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Speaker 5: on The Bachelorette helt he built a following after appearing

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Speaker 5: on Jojoe Fletcher's twenty sixteen season.

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Speaker 6: And this all.

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Speaker 5: Stands from an incident on April fourth of twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 5: or what a nineteen year old girl told woman I guess.

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Speaker 5: Nineteen year old woman told police she met James at

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Speaker 5: a bar in College Station, Texas, and according to investigators,

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Speaker 5: the two of them went back to his house, where

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Speaker 5: the woman says the situation escalated. She told police that

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Speaker 5: she when she tried to leave, James blocked the exit

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Speaker 5: and physically restrained her, preventing her from getting out.

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Speaker 7: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The woman said that he used his body weight to

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Speaker 5: pin her down and at one point took her phone,

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Speaker 5: cutting off any ability she had to like reach out

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Speaker 5: and like, you know, call for help. Right, So she

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Speaker 5: eventually she manages to break free, She flees the house

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Speaker 5: and later she calls the police. Right while officers documented

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Speaker 5: visible injuries and physical evidence that they had supported her

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Speaker 5: account of what happened. So James he denied the obligation,

436
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 5: saying the encounter was consensual and saying I would never

437
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 5: hurt anybody. So fast forward a year, right in April

438
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 5: twenty twenty five, he pled guilty to charges tied to

439
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 5: that case, and he was sentenced to community service, finds

440
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 5: and anchor management. And this is the key part. As

441
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 5: part of that agreement, he was ordered to have no

442
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 5: contact with the woman and was banned from the North

443
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 5: Gate entertainment district where they first met.

444
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 3: Right.

445
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 5: Well, now he's been arrested again in connection to this

446
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 5: same case. So officials haven't said exactly what he did,

447
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 5: but it's believed that he broke the rules of his

448
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 5: plea deal, which included no contact with the victims staying

449
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 5: away from certain areas, and that alone is obviously enough

450
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 5: to land him back in jail.

451
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 2: Wow, And we've gotten so much chatter, you know, dms

452
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: and you know, different talkbacks, et cetera, about even just

453
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: last night's discussion Lorette.

454
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting.

455
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: That's one of those sort of buttons because listen, this

456
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: is a really complicated on and you know, it's pretty

457
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: unprecedented to date. There's so many people that are also

458
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: saying play the show. We grew up on Jersey Shore

459
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: play the show, you know, like some there is a

460
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 2: call for from audiences that they straight up just want

461
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: to see it, you know. And then I was having

462
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: a discussion earlier today with a former colleague, and you know,

463
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: we were kind of talking and one of the things

464
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: that was sort of surprising just about this particular bachelorette.

465
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: You know, obviously she was on the Netflix show and

466
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: she was getting out of a marriage or you know,

467
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: a relationship with her baby daddy and has two children,

468
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: and she was very vocal about the fact that right

469
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: before her you know interview, in her first day at

470
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: The Bachelor, she was you know, basically having sex with

471
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: her ex and her baby daddy, the one that's in

472
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: question in all of these conversations, Dakota. So she wasn't

473
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: really looking for true love, you know, if you're still

474
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: completely entangled with your ex and you're you know, making

475
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 2: The Bachelor at its core, it is actually a show

476
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: to find true love, or at least it was back.

477
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 8: In the day.

478
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: Or is it just like you know, shock TV.

479
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 5: I don't know people are on people on TV for TV.

480
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 5: But you know, it's so funny about that is. As

481
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 5: you were saying that about her, Sam was like nodding

482
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 5: his head, yes, because he pays attention to that show.

483
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: Yes, Sam, don't you?

484
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 6: Sam is like invested in the show.

485
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 9: I do.

486
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 10: And I feel like it's one thing where you know,

487
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 10: this stuff happens on camera, because that's kind of controlled chaos.

488
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 10: It's another where it's like it's off camera, it's in

489
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 10: their personal lives, and that's.

490
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty utally greet Yeah, Like so what is the

491
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: point here?

492
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: You have a bachelorette, You have all of these guys

493
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 2: taking off time from work and investing thirty days of

494
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: their lives to go on this to allegedly find love.

495
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: Well, we don't know that. I mean, I don't know

496
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 3: all of them, but I don't think all them are.

497
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm just all of them.

498
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 6: No, of course not.

499
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 2: And ideally you think you're gonna go you with somebody

500
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: who's a not you know, an abuser or somebody who's

501
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: in the throes of a domestic violent relationship, but also

502
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 2: somebody who also equally wants to find love or be

503
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: in a relationship.

504
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 3: And if you're completely you know.

505
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 2: Messing around with your ex just before you go onto

506
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: the show, I don't know even as you know, producers

507
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 2: back in the day ta how correct me?

508
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 3: If I'm wrong, that would have been foul play.

509
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 8: That would have been completely a no no, And just

510
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 8: wonder I.

511
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: Would I think it would have. You would have been

512
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: kicked out of production day one. Maybe they would have

513
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 2: delayed the shoot. But the fact that they shot the

514
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: whole thing and now it's being benched is it's so

515
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: confusing to me.

516
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 11: Well, I had an issue a little bit also with

517
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 11: the you know, the five contestants that are there five

518
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 11: men that are suing right.

519
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 8: Now over it? So maybe there is a world where

520
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 8: they were. You know, you both could be true you

521
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 8: were looking for love?

522
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be both, right, get a.

523
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 11: Little clout and you want Yeah, there is a world

524
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 11: I think both exist. But going back to what you

525
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 11: were saying, Yeah, early on when we worked back at

526
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 11: the Bachelor, you know horse and Buggy days, when we

527
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 11: had to go to work in that format, I think

528
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 11: at that time they really really were scrutinized. I mean,

529
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 11: my part of my job was to let people know,

530
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 11: sorry you felt failed a psych evaluation test, or sorry

531
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 11: you have some sort of a sexually transmitted disease.

532
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 8: So you can't be a part of it.

533
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 6: Like, I mean, oh my god, no way. How many people?

534
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: Did you have a lot of people?

535
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 11: Well, I did sign something that but I supposed to

536
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 11: even say some of this, but so I was a

537
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 11: specific number. But the worst thing in the world is

538
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 11: to tell someone has no idea that they have these things.

539
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 8: Bad news, you're not going to be on the show.

540
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 3: Sorry you have That's also telling.

541
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: Like they were doing every level of STD testing, psych evaluations,

542
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, doing a deep die background investigation. If there

543
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: was any sense that you had suicidal tendencies, if there

544
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: was any sort of abuse in your life period, whether

545
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: you were a part of the abusive relationship or you

546
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: were kind of prone it, maybe you were raised in

547
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: an extreme relationship or in an extreme household. Those will

548
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: be things to take into consideration psychologically speaking, not because

549
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: that doesn't make you lovable and a great catch, but

550
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 2: mostly it might not make you a great fit for

551
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: thirty days in this pressure cooker to love, because it's

552
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 2: really an intense schedule. I mean, body, you know, it's

553
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: thirty aggressive days.

554
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 6: I was there for like sixty days. It was terrible.

555
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: Even when we worked on shows, I would come out

556
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: a body bag. You know, you really do.

557
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: It's exhausting. Every night, every everybody cries all day. Even

558
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: the staff starts to cry. It's just because the.

559
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 6: Whole every scene, I'm crying. It's ridiculous.

560
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they always say, you know, psychologically, what is it

561
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: six days in Within six days, everybody sort of starts

562
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: to kind of get emotional and you know, starts to

563
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: cry and also starts to share.

564
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: And become vulnerable. You know, it's all part of the process.

565
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: But if you have somebody who has some real late

566
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: and stuff that hasn't been dealt with again, it doesn't

567
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: make you unlovable or you know, unable to find love.

568
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: It just might not make you a great person to

569
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: have in this house for thirty days with so many

570
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: other people with cameras in your face. It might make

571
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: you more aggressive, it might make you more sensitive, It

572
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: might make you it might trigger you.

573
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's very triggering. It's very triggering isolated environments.

574
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey, make sure you stay with us because we

575
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: have an amazing guest coming up. He's an attorney who's

576
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: also going to be giving us real tips on sort

577
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: of all this online craziness that we've been talking about

578
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: you know, stuff that Courtney's been covering, the seven six

579
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: four network, online hate groups and kind of how to

580
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: keep us safe, So please stay with us. And this

581
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: devastating news that we've been covering closely. Caesar Chavez, you know,

582
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: who was this activist and civil rights greatness. It seems

583
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: like the ties are changing in that and he's being

584
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: really accused of some awful things and as a result,

585
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: major change is in the air.

586
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: Like that thought he was really devastating.

587
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 5: Actually, I mean, like person, this is just really sad,

588
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 5: so an upsetting. So there's new and disturbing, you know,

589
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 5: allegations and they're really you know, they're really reshaping the

590
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 5: legacy of civil rights icon Caesar Shavas. Okay, he's the

591
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 5: co founder of the United farm Workers and a figure

592
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 5: long celebrated for championing labor rights. Well, a recent investigation

593
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: and new public statements, including one from his longtime colleague

594
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 5: Dolores Werta, accused Caesar Shavaz of sexually abusing women and

595
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 5: girls during the height of the farm worker movement. Excuse me, frog.

596
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 5: So these allegations, and you know, some are dating back decades,

597
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 5: they're now prompting a national reckoning over how to reconcile,

598
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 5: you know, his impact with these claims, and whether or

599
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 5: not institutions should continue to honor his name. So here's

600
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 5: what's all about the allegations and who are making them?

601
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: Okay.

602
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 5: So, in March of twenty twenty six, Delores Wertha publicly

603
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: stated that Caesar Shabas sexually abused her decades ago, and

604
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 5: she said she stayed silent to protect the farm worker movement.

605
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 5: And this is such I mean, this woman, Dolores wortha

606
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 5: to me, Oh my god, what an amazing woman. She

607
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 5: put aside her own need for personal justice to help others.

608
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 5: I mean, think about that, Think about suffering in silence

609
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 5: for decades because you want to protect the farm worker movement.

610
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 5: So she really said it sounds to me, and the

611
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 5: way I read this is that she really sacrificed her

612
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 5: own happiness for many, many, many other peop people. So

613
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 5: this now, Dolores, she's a longtime labor leader herself, okay,

614
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 5: And her allegation makes her the highest profile accuser, which

615
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 5: really is adding weight to this broader investigation into Caesar

616
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 5: Sshava's behavior. So this New York Times investigation cited evidence

617
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 5: that Caesar Shavas allegedly groomed and abused multiple young girls

618
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 5: during his leadership with the United farm Workers, and some

619
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 5: allegations are dating back to the nineteen sixties, including claims

620
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 5: involving underage girls connected to the movement. Huerta Doloresauata described

621
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 5: the experience of something she carried for decades later, saying,

622
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 5: now she understands herself as a survivor of sexual abuse.

623
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 5: Oh my god, this is just so upsetting to me.

624
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 5: I mean, these it's so upsetting. They're very vulnerable. They're

625
00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 5: very vulnerable, these people, and you know, it just breaks

626
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 5: my heart that this is now, you know, coming out,

627
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 5: and you know, he just wasn't the man everyone thought

628
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 5: he was.

629
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: Thank god, it's coming out.

630
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like this, this flood is never ending,

631
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: seemingly well, you know, great people on the nose that

632
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: we all admire and look up to, that are famous

633
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: and wealthy and elite, and it's so upsetting to see

634
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 2: this fall from grace. But thank goodness, you's speaking up

635
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: and that others can hear that silence is not the

636
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: answer and helps nobody other than the predator.

637
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're absolutely right, And you know, advocates are saying

638
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 5: that all these allegations highlight this really broader culture of

639
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 5: silence and fear that exists within parts of the farm

640
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 5: worker movement, especially for the women. You know, these women are,

641
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 5: like I said, very vulnerable, and you know, for him

642
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 5: to take advantage of that situation and the environment he

643
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 5: was in just really just repulses me.

644
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: Sickening. It's sickening.

645
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 5: Orts are suggesting abuse and harassment were often underreported, of

646
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 5: course to power dynamics, and that's something of immigration, fears,

647
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 5: right and retaliation in agricultural communities. So you have to

648
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 5: understand the power imbalance here and the power that Caesar

649
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 5: like had over these people. I mean literally can take

650
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 5: you in and take you out. You know, I brought

651
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 5: you here, I can bring you back.

652
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 7: Yeah.

653
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 5: And so people say they suffer in silence and fear,

654
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 5: and women in the movement have sense built their own

655
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 5: advocacy efforts, including campaigns like the Bandana Project, which I

656
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: hope everybody goes and researches. And this project is basically

657
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 5: created to address sexual violence in the fields. So you're working,

658
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 5: right you maybe you're harvesting asparagus, okay, and you're getting

659
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 5: sexually assaulted while you're at work. Yeah, it's horrible. And

660
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 5: that's just hard labor too.

661
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: Oh it's still the son.

662
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: This is not an easy job. Now you have somebody

663
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: who you really admire in your whole life in so

664
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 2: many ways, is dedicated to you. I mean we all have,

665
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: you know, praised him. Frankly, you know, there's so many

666
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: streets named after him, and schools and museums and roads

667
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles specifically. I can think of many things

668
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: that are named after him for what seemed like all

669
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: the right reasons, and then you find out this clown

670
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: has been taking advantage of all these young girls.

671
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 4: It's just also, I don't recall if it was indeed

672
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 4: Dolores Wuerta or if it was another woman. I believe

673
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 4: it was Dolores who said something to the effect of

674
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 4: Caesar Chave said from when she was thirteen, he knew

675
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 4: they should be together. So just really, you know, the grooming,

676
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 4: which we've spoken about so much, and so many capacities.

677
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and you know there's a lot of

678
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 5: things now tied to you know, Caesar's legacy that are

679
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 5: now in question too, which I to me, aren't all that,

680
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 5: you know, the more important thing is justice and recognition

681
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 5: of what he's done. But for other people, legacy is

682
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 5: a big deal. And you know, following all these allegations,

683
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 5: organizations that have been tied to Caesar, have they been

684
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 5: canceling their events and all their public celebrations, including stepping

685
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 5: back from Caesar Shava's Day observations, which is coming up

686
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 5: it's March thirty first.

687
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they wasted no time, by the way, and Courtney,

688
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: what do you agree these This is like very fast acting,

689
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: like they are looking quick down anything and everything that

690
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: can be associated, which I do.

691
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 4: Have to say, and we were speaking about this a

692
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 4: little bit before the show. Yes, the action is swift,

693
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 4: it is public, and it's really visible down or up

694
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 4: to as you said, body cancer, canceling.

695
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: Caesar Javas Day. Well, to feel like this is.

696
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: You know, something that goes against all of the other

697
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: people of high regard. All these white men with tons

698
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 4: of cash. Their names are getting pulled off of buildings

699
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 4: per se or.

700
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: No, they're getting put on buildings real time. No, no,

701
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 2: they're getting put on buildings as we speak regularly. There

702
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: a list of names that are in the Epstein class

703
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: is abhorrent and there has been no action taken whatsoever,

704
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: Pam Bondi or Department of Justice. They have specifically acknowledged

705
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: twelve hundred women have either come forward or testified or

706
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: made reports with the FBI over twenty years, and they

707
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: don't have enough information to take a case that one

708
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: single person. Yet, Caesar Chavez, we all love and have

709
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: respected he's going down and boom.

710
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 3: Action and taken a holiday back.

711
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 6: And don't take it wrong. We do think Caesar should

712
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 6: be going down, right.

713
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 5: Yes, not that all the other ones need to as well,

714
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 5: Like I appreciate the same standard.

715
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: Right exactly that I appreciate the action ability here.

716
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 3: You know, it's I don't know what that says, but

717
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't really speak to Yeah, where are all the other ones? Right?

718
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 3: This is my point.

719
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: This feels to me like the exception that proves the rule,

720
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 4: and this exception is it's a lot easier for a

721
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 4: man with brown skin who was the face of a

722
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: immigrant farm immigrant.

723
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, to exactly, And that's because the white male

724
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 2: ex stem class wants us all fighting amongst ourselves.

725
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: We're all racially divided.

726
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: Oh, we don't want the gays in the streets in

727
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: the this color and that color.

728
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 3: They're all enemies.

729
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Uh you know what, news flash, if you think the

730
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 2: person across the street from you, who you've never spoken to,

731
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: who is a different color than you, or a different gender,

732
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: or a different they identify different than you, please go

733
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: across the street and just give them a hug. Because

734
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: this has all been manufactured. We've all been fighting with

735
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 2: each other because the people above us have wanted it

736
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: that way. And I see action like this, a holiday

737
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: being removed that certainly doesn't give these young ladies back

738
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: their lives, but it's a start, and it's a show

739
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: that we are not celebrating this demonic behavior.

740
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 6: Period period period snap. Well guess what.

741
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: Stuff.

742
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 5: That's not all they're doing, though, So cities and institutions

743
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 5: are also on top of, you know, stepping back from

744
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 5: you know, the Caesar Shabas Observation Day. They're also removing

745
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 5: statues and guess what, they're renaming streets. We were just

746
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 5: talking about the street. That's great, and they're reconsidering honors

747
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 5: that have been associated with Caesarshavas. I mean, listen, if

748
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 5: you live in LA and you live on Caesar Shauvas Street.

749
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 8: You're going to be getting your name.

750
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 5: We know you're going to be getting a new name,

751
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 5: or if you live in Irvine, you know somewhere right.

752
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 5: You know, I grew up in Orange County and it's

753
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 5: a lot of farm work out there. I mean people,

754
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 5: I don't think people understand, like in California at least,

755
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 5: like it is a lot of agriculture work there. And

756
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 5: these are people that were my friends, you know what

757
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 5: I mean, Like, I don't know.

758
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 6: It's just it's really hard to work. So it's so

759
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 6: it's such hard work.

760
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you.

761
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: I see things on the news today even I know

762
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: I'm jumping subjects right now, but I know we mentioned

763
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 2: it earlier, but even as we're talking, it's popping up again,

764
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 2: having ice agents at the airports and tackling a young woman.

765
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: With her child.

766
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: It is so upsetting if you don't have a visceral reaction,

767
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 2: no matter what your politics, no matter what your religious beliefs.

768
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: Since when do we all have to be exactly alike?

769
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: Like we should be celebrating all the differences. I thought

770
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 2: that was the whole point. And seeing that in an

771
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: air I thought that was so regulating and disgusting. I

772
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: just I feel like we're all about to shift, and

773
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: I think the masses we are good, and all of

774
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 2: this noise, it's going to keep coming up and bubbling

775
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: up until enough is enough. I don't know what the

776
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: answer is after that, but I don't know. I'm getting

777
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: itchy and my skin.

778
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 8: I'm glad it's all coming out, though, I mean.

779
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 3: I want to be productive about it.

780
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 8: I just thought I was just going to say that

781
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 8: for me, like I don't.

782
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 11: I don't know if anyone else has this, but we've

783
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 11: talked tonight about two different public figures that I've had

784
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 11: a lot of respect for growing up, like Bill Cosby.

785
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 8: They loved him Bill Cosby's. I don't know if it's

786
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 8: just me, but I don't even know how to.

787
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 11: I don't know how to deal with the emotions of

788
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 11: the fact that there was someone that I looked up

789
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 11: so highly now that I now have so little respect

790
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 11: for when I hear what they've done. I'm still I

791
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 11: guess I'm still trying to.

792
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: Know what both things can be true.

793
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: And just because somebody is a great actor doesn't make

794
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: them a person of great character. And I think speaking

795
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: for myself, growing up, there was so much there was

796
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: so much appeal to somebody having fame and fortune. Like

797
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: I remember coming to Los Angeles and being WHA, my goodness,

798
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: this is where all the magic happens in all the

799
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: movie stars. And now to find out that so much

800
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: of that was really happening in dark shadows. And you know,

801
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: I think politics is the most important thing in the world,

802
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: our government. We're in the United States of America, the

803
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: greatest country on earth. I was raised, like my father

804
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: was buried holding an American flag. We take it serious.

805
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: So to now be seeing that the people that we

806
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: voted for, and by the way, we it doesn't matter

807
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 2: who you voted for, they may have been aware of

808
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: all things happening. Epstein seems like everybody knew about it

809
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: and just kind of look the other way. And I

810
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 2: think we could all agree. Nobody likes seeing the Bachelorette.

811
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: That's violent. That doesn't work for anybody, right, even if

812
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: you love reality TV. We're all like, Eh, that doesn't

813
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 2: feel good. We don't like the pedophilia. We're seeing it everywhere,

814
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: and I know we're all getting fatigued. But I do

815
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: believe changes in the air, and we're seeing it in

816
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: small and big ways. Maybe it'll take fifty three years,

817
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 2: as in the case of Bill Cosby.

818
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 3: But you know what, justice comes. That justice does come.

819
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 5: And you know what's weird is we have to get

820
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 5: a madder about it, No we do. It just seems

821
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 5: like the amount of sexual assault cases that even just

822
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 5: we're covering has of course crippled. I feel like that's

823
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 5: all we talk about anymore.

824
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, too, it just seems as though,

825
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: and again I have to say, thank god we have

826
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 2: the ability to talk about it together and anyone listening,

827
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: and for those sharing their stories, because now imagine how

828
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: many people within the sound of my voice have been

829
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: silenced and have been living under this veil of shame

830
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 2: that they've done something wrong.

831
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: Now you find out.

832
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: Oh wait, no, no, I was the victim and you

833
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: were the survivor, and you know, you look back, you

834
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 2: get angry, can't get those.

835
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 6: Just realized how stupid I am.

836
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 5: I said that Dolores was a hero for staying silent

837
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 5: to sacrifice for the community, but just I just realized.

838
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: In her mind, yeah, okay, I don't want to make

839
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 2: sure she was that as she was. She sacrificed, but

840
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,959
Speaker 2: she shouldn't. Again, nobody do no more Dolores ing. Yeah,

841
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: you don't have to take it to the grave. You

842
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: can heal from all of it, and you're probably way

843
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 2: more backed up than you think. Honestly, like this uproar

844
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: should at least make those who have experienced you know

845
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: what I mean, you imagine and again going up against

846
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: these big names.

847
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 3: We're still afraid to do it.

848
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: Collectively, we're not doing anything actionable really of the Epstein files,

849
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: have you seen any big arrests one an investigation?

850
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 4: Well, listen, stick around because at the top of the hour,

851
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 4: we're going to be joined by Attorney David Ryan. He's

852
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 4: the former chief of the National Security Division at the

853
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 4: US Attorney's Office.

854
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about all.

855
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 4: Sorts of CI issues that we are all facing. Keep

856
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 4: it here, True Crime Tonight.

857
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

858
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

859
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

860
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 3: So listen.

861
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the first hour of the show,

862
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 2: you do not have to stress at all. You can

863
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: just catch us right after as a podcast and reminder,

864
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 2: we have TAHA here, we have Oh.

865
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 3: Sam is in the big seat tonight.

866
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 2: So he's waiting for your call eight eight eight three

867
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: one crime or please you can always leave us a

868
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: talk back.

869
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 3: We love them.

870
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: So we're really excited right now because we have Attorney

871
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: David Ryan joining us.

872
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 3: He's here to discuss all the scary.

873
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 2: Things we've been talking about about, all this online threats

874
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 2: that we've been discussing, some of the groups and things

875
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: that we covered in our podcast in Cells, and we

876
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: finally have the person here who is going to.

877
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 3: Put us all in line.

878
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 2: So David, welcome to the show. Thanks for shving me Court,

879
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: and you will give a little backstory.

880
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Court.

881
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're all so happy to have you. David, And

882
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 4: he is an attorney. David is the former chief of

883
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 4: the National Security Division Section at the US Attorney's Office

884
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles. And David Ryan's investigated and prosecuted cases

885
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 4: cases involving domestic and international terrorism efforts, cyber intrusions, cyber hacking,

886
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 4: and cyber stalking.

887
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 3: So David Ryan is really the guy.

888
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,959
Speaker 4: And he is also currently at the law firm Mongertoles

889
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 4: and Olsen. And we're going to ask you every question.

890
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 3: He sure is.

891
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 4: He's a bit of a smarty pan. Yes, and we

892
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 4: had Stephanie mentioned in Cells. We had the pleasure while

893
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 4: Katie Studios was producing the podcast series in Cells of

894
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 4: David really walking us through, for example, the seven six

895
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 4: four network, which we will go into later. But David,

896
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 4: can you just start us off and let everybody know

897
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 4: sort of what is the National Security Division and what

898
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 4: does it do?

899
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 12: Sure, the Department of Justice has a National Security Division

900
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 12: works with the FBI's national security agents to investigate prevents

901
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 12: and if necessary, prosecute crimes of terrorism, domestic terrorism or

902
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 12: international terrorism and counter intelligence or espionage crimes, which would

903
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 12: include things like foreign government sending agents into the country

904
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 12: to either steal secrets, influence the political system, influence elections,

905
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 12: or in some cases threaten or commit violence against dissidents

906
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 12: from their country or are living in our country.

907
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 2: Oh, that is a hard job, and that sounds a

908
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 2: real serious job. Yes, exactly, Like you're the one keeping

909
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: us safe because everything you just described all the stuff

910
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: that we're most fearful of, quite frankly, so you know,

911
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: thank you for doing that.

912
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's been an increasingly complex national security threat landscape,

913
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 12: to say the least, over the last ten years.

914
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 3: Oh, I have that.

915
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 4: I can you tell us a little bit about specifically

916
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 4: the counter intelligence aspect of the National Security Division.

917
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, A significant trend over the last decade in national

918
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 12: security has been the rise of the counter intelligence mission.

919
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 12: You know, after nine to eleven, the FBI and Department

920
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 12: of Justice National Security Apparatus was really set up as

921
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 12: a counter terrorism focused apparatus focused on Al Qaeda and

922
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 12: then ISIS, but really starting in earnest with the twenty

923
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 12: sixteen election, the counter intelligence focus increase, in part due

924
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 12: to the Russian influence in that election, as well as

925
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 12: an increased effort by China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia

926
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 12: to engage in other forms of what we would refer

927
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 12: to as malign foreign influence.

928
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 7: That generally falls into a couple of major buckets.

929
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 12: One is traditional espionage, attempting to steal secrets, steel military.

930
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 7: Secrets, flip or bribe, you can co opt.

931
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 12: US military service members or other government officials who have

932
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 12: access to classified information to use it for their own purposes,

933
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 12: or things like what we call sort of softer espionage,

934
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 12: light or soft power, such as there was a case

935
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 12: that our office, the US Trains Office out here prosecuted

936
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 12: last year of a man who worked on behalf of

937
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 12: the Chinese government as a campaign manager for a local

938
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 12: woman who was running for and was elected to office

939
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 12: in southern California, and he helped get her elected on

940
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 12: behalf of the Chinese government.

941
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 2: What, oh my goodness, but that makes perfect sense. That

942
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: is kind of the perfect plan, right, and again the

943
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 2: big bad web, that is a hard thing to monitor

944
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: on its biggest stage, and here we go major wow.

945
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 5: Courtney literally was like trying to configure out who it was.

946
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 5: Like I could see her thinking, like she was like,

947
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 5: who wasn't.

948
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 4: No, It's so interesting because I had read you mentioned that,

949
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 4: you know, the China infiltrating Los Angeles, and I had

950
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 4: heard a very similar story that was broken in the

951
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 4: news about in New York and how much the Chinese

952
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 4: government was absolutely.

953
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 3: Ingrained and running New York and saying the long game.

954
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 4: Interesting, what about in general? It seems there really has

955
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 4: been an increase in online threats in cyberstalking in the

956
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 4: last ten years or so that you've mentioned.

957
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 3: What what can you tell us about?

958
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 12: Yeah, so that that would fit into you know, I

959
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 12: referred earlier to domestic terrorism, and increasingly federal law enforcement

960
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 12: is addressed that sort of threat through the domestic terrorism lens,

961
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 12: and that's because there's been an increase in ideologically motivated

962
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 12: online violence. So there's sports, there's certainly a lot of

963
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 12: traditional violent crime that starts online. In terms of threats

964
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 12: in cyberstocking, that comes from personal animates and personal relationships.

965
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 12: What we've seen, though, is the rise of these groups

966
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 12: that are ideologically motivated, and so they would be referred

967
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 12: to truly as domestic terror groups or cells, and the

968
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 12: group in Cells is one of them, and another more

969
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 12: recent iteration is a group or network known as seven

970
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 12: six four. There has been also a rise in online

971
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 12: threats in cyberstocking outside of that sphere in the political context,

972
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 12: so we've seen an explosion again over the last ten

973
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 12: years in online threats related to anti government or anti

974
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 12: authority extremism. Whether those are threats against elected officials, judges, prosecutors,

975
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 12: government officials who are unelected, that has been a serious

976
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 12: problem over the last seven to ten years as well.

977
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 5: Wow, what's the line between your First Amendment right to

978
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,959
Speaker 5: say something and criminal activity?

979
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 12: It's a great question and it's an important question for

980
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 12: the government, FBI agents and prosecutors to be incredibly well

981
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 12: versed in because that's the line that they're tasked with policing.

982
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 12: You may think about it differently in two different contexts,

983
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 12: in the context of online threats and cyberstocking like you

984
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 12: just asked about.

985
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,399
Speaker 7: You know, it's a federal crime to use the.

986
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 12: Internet or place phone calls across state lines or send

987
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 12: mail across state lines. All these days, it's mostly the

988
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 12: internet to harass or threaten someone, So that's not First

989
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 12: Amendment protected activity.

990
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 7: To engage in conduct over the Internet.

991
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 12: That would cause substantial place of person in fear for

992
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 12: their life or cause them even substantial emotional harm or distress,

993
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 12: that's a crime right there. Where it's maybe trickier is

994
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 12: in the threats context, where it is not a crime

995
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 12: for someone to express a desire in the general in

996
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 12: a general chat forum, let's say, to express a desire

997
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 12: to hurt someone or something or someplace. It's not a

998
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 12: crime for someone in a general chat forum, say to

999
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 12: say that they hope or wish or want or would

1000
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 12: love for somebody to commit violence against someone else. So

1001
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 12: where that crosses the line is difficult. And then the

1002
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 12: most difficult probably is where someone is discussing their desire

1003
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:10,919
Speaker 12: to commit a mass casualty attack, whether motivated by foreign

1004
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 12: terrorist ideology connected inspired by ISIS, or domestic terror ideology

1005
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 12: most commonly motivated by white supremacy extremism, but could be

1006
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 12: motivated by any extremist ideology. And where that moves from

1007
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 12: stating a desire to planning to committing some sort of

1008
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 12: criminal offense is the most I think, the most challenging

1009
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 12: thing for national security investigations and prosecutions. The short answer is,

1010
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 12: once someone takes a substantial step towards committing the attack,

1011
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 12: then they can be charged with attempting it. What does

1012
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 12: a substantial step mean? That's the term in the law.

1013
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 12: What is a substantial step needs that.

1014
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 6: A home depot run to buy supplies?

1015
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 3: Is that you know what I mean?

1016
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: Like?

1017
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 6: What I wonder what that is?

1018
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 3: I wonder what that step is? That red flag step?

1019
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 3: I guess you could call it, right, That's exactly right.

1020
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 7: So we had a case that we prosecuted where.

1021
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 12: A man was intending to detonate.

1022
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 7: Pipe bombs at a political rally.

1023
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 12: On behalf of are inspired by ISIS, and we charged

1024
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 12: him with attempting to commit that attack after he finished

1025
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 12: building what he thought was a workable bomb, and he

1026
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 12: loaded the bomb into his truck the night before the attack.

1027
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 6: Oh my good.

1028
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 7: He went to trial and a jury found.

1029
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 12: That was enough of a substantial step to be attempting

1030
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 12: to commit the attack, even though he hadn't yet shown

1031
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 12: up to push the button.

1032
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 3: It's complicated.

1033
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 4: It's such again that fine line of what that line

1034
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 4: is between saying I wish or I want to actually

1035
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 4: committing a crime. By the way, if you are just

1036
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 4: joining us as a true crime tonight, and we're so

1037
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 4: thrilled to be joined by Attorney David Ryan. He's the

1038
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 4: former chief of the National Security Division at the US

1039
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 4: Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, and David is walking us

1040
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 4: through espionage and First Amendment protection and counter intelligence things cyber.

1041
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, all things cyber in this instance.

1042
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 4: So David, in your line of work, so there's so

1043
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 4: much vitual and aggressive language and threats like this is

1044
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 4: similar to a body ask But I don't know any

1045
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 4: more information about sort of what how do you find

1046
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 4: people before they commit the crimes? And is there any

1047
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 4: way for parents to help? I guess first, how do

1048
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 4: you guys do it?

1049
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1050
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 12: I think one misconception people have is that the federal

1051
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 12: government is out there sitting in chat rooms and trolling

1052
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,439
Speaker 12: on social media platforms with algorithms or things like that,

1053
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 12: or informants to just catch communications.

1054
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 7: In the wind. You know, think about the law of

1055
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 7: big numbers.

1056
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 12: There is a lot, There are a lot of people,

1057
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 12: There are a lot of social media profiles, and compare

1058
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 12: that to the number of FBI agents.

1059
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 7: That's not what's happening.

1060
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 12: It's also not what's happening under our constitutional system and

1061
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 12: under the rules and policies.

1062
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 7: Of federal law enforcement.

1063
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 12: So the department and the FBI investigate based on factual

1064
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 12: what they would call predication. So they need a basis

1065
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,959
Speaker 12: to investigate somebody in order to start engaging with them,

1066
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 12: looking at their social media posts, tasking an informant or

1067
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 12: undercover with communicating with them.

1068
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 7: So where does that.

1069
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 12: Initial factual predication or tip come from?

1070
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 7: Most commonly, it comes from a tip from the community.

1071
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 12: So most commonly somebody in the chat room or in

1072
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 12: real life, if the person's talking in real life, hears

1073
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 12: or sees something that they think is scary and they

1074
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 12: call the FBI, or they call their local police, and

1075
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 12: the local police refer the tip to the FBI. And

1076
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 12: if there's an there, then the FBI and the Department

1077
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 12: of Justice National security prosecutors would start digging into it.

1078
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 12: There is a lot of vitriol, as you say, out there,

1079
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 12: and most of it, the vast majority of it is

1080
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 12: not and does not escalate to criminal behavior. So I

1081
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 12: think what everybody can and should do is not feel

1082
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 12: concerned about sharing a tip. If someone sees something or

1083
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 12: hears something that they think is scary, they may never

1084
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 12: hear about it again, and the FBI or somebody may

1085
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 12: take a look at it and it may not cross

1086
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 12: that threshold, and that's fine, But that's where the cases

1087
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 12: that do cross that threshold, where someone is on that

1088
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 12: path towards mobilizing the violence, typically if.

1089
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 7: It's able to be stopped. That's the reason.

1090
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 3: Wow, I want to talk about going ahead? And you no, no,

1091
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 3: you go ahead?

1092
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 5: Can we talk about why, like these extremists and whatnot

1093
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 5: who carry out mash casualty attacks, why they make manifestos

1094
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 5: or the post on social media or then like a

1095
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 5: video or share it with friends.

1096
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 6: Can we talk about that for a moment.

1097
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 7: Yes.

1098
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 12: And what's interesting about that is that, like many other

1099
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 12: tactics and styles, it's consistent across ideology. So you see

1100
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 12: that from attackers motivated by ISIS, see it from white

1101
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 12: supremacy extremists, see it from in cells shooters, easy to

1102
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 12: appreciate from We had this Palm Springs bombing that we

1103
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 12: had last year.

1104
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 7: That's from a new ideology.

1105
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 12: Called anti natalist, basically just anti life in general. Attacked

1106
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 12: a fertility clinic based on the view that life is

1107
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 12: bad and therefore nobody should be brought into the world.

1108
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 7: It doesn't really matter the ideology they follow off in

1109
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 7: the same playbook.

1110
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 12: And that playbook does often involve manifesto these days, it's

1111
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 12: usually a video our website or a live stream. And look,

1112
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 12: on the one hand, if someone's trying not to get

1113
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 12: caught committing a crime, posting a manifesto, especially one with

1114
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 12: your face in it, is not smart.

1115
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 7: What does that tell you? Tells you Obviously, not getting

1116
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 7: caught is not their priority.

1117
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 12: Their priority is getting the message out in order to

1118
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 12: get a message out and.

1119
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 2: Putting their face to that message also, and the only

1120
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 2: way to get that message out is to do something

1121
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: so horrendous it gets a lot of coverage, right, And

1122
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: that's the main thing.

1123
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 4: Right, Then the cycle continues, and then the cycle continues.

1124
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 4: Well listen, everybody, keep it here because we are so happy.

1125
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 3: Attorney David Ryan is going to stick with us.

1126
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 4: He's going to walk us through the seven six four

1127
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 4: network and what every parent should know about this online

1128
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 4: group that not enough of us do.

1129
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 3: It's a group that targets young people. So keep it here.

1130
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 4: On True Crime Tonight, we are talking true crime all

1131
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 4: the time.

1132
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: Welcome back to your crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, We're talking

1133
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lei Decker here

1134
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 2: of course with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in, and

1135
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 2: we are very very honored to have David Ryan here.

1136
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 2: He's an attorney. If you didn't listen to In Cells

1137
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 2: the podcast, please do. It's definitely an iHeart podcast. Just

1138
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 2: download it on your iHeartRadio app. It's really important stuff,

1139
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 2: you know. Courtney, Body all worked really hard on it,

1140
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: and David also really set a stage that none of

1141
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: us were quite expecting. It was the first time that

1142
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 2: really I was aware of seven six' four and we

1143
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 2: work in true, crime and even as moms didn't know about.

1144
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: It SO i can say firsthand already just you sharing

1145
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 2: stories has already moved the needle in my, world AND

1146
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 2: i can speak For courtney on that. Front courtney was

1147
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 2: in tears multiple times just talking about seven sixty four

1148
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,479
Speaker 2: because it just it's so incredibly, scary and it makes

1149
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 2: us all feel a little paralyzed with you, know how

1150
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 2: to help and how to be productive not just around our,

1151
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 2: kids but other kids and you, know, friends et. Cetera

1152
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 2: so we're so glad you're here to set us set

1153
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 2: us up for. Success, yeah, Absolutely.

1154
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 4: DAVID i was hoping we're going to get into the

1155
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 4: details of seven sixty, four As stephanie, mentioned AND i

1156
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 4: wanted to just start by a case that you just

1157
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 4: drew our attention to that. Hit it was a press

1158
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 4: release from about a month. Ago so there's an eighteen

1159
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 4: year old man Named Matthew, fisher and the allegation is

1160
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 4: that he flew From pennsylvania To Los angeles to meet

1161
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 4: a girl who had recently turned thirteen years. Old and this,

1162
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 4: Guy Matthew, fisher allegedly met her online and groomed her

1163
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 4: over the course it seems of a very short. Window

1164
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 4: it seems they met In december and this assault happened In.

1165
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 3: February so On.

1166
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 4: February Twentieth fisher flew To Los angeles and he was

1167
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 4: found ultimately by THE fbi with this underage victim in

1168
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 4: a hotel room where there were, condoms there were bloody,

1169
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 4: tissues there were razor, blades and this girl leading up

1170
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 4: to that had been manipulated by this man to send

1171
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 4: videos of herself engaging excess sexually explicit. Acts so this

1172
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 4: is a, Case it is a horrible, case and it

1173
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 4: is also our way into the seven six four. Network, So,

1174
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 4: david if you would just start from, scratch there are,

1175
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 4: many if not, most people who don't know what the

1176
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 4: seven six four network.

1177
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 12: Is the seven to Six foard network is a network

1178
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 12: of what we call nihilistic violent. Extremists they don't have

1179
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 12: an affirmative ideological goal other than to attempt to bring

1180
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 12: down or corrupt society and young people in.

1181
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 7: Society they attempt to do that by.

1182
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 12: Essentially finding children online and sex storting, them meaning induce

1183
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 12: them to send sexually explicit videos or photographs to them

1184
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 12: over The, internet and then blackmail them with that content

1185
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 12: to force them to do increasingly destructive acts of self,

1186
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 12: harm including sexual acts but also non sexual acts of self.

1187
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 7: Harm if they're generally act in.

1188
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 12: That way over the, internet carry out from start to

1189
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,479
Speaker 12: finish their crimes over the, internet but as this case,

1190
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 12: illustrates they also in some cases then go in person

1191
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 12: to victimize the same. People, further they have also moved

1192
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 12: over the last eighteen months into other in real, life

1193
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 12: physical world, attacks including knife.

1194
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 7: Attacks and firearm. Attacks not in The United. States it's

1195
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 7: a global network.

1196
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 12: And it's, growing and THE fbi has increasingly recognized it

1197
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 12: as a domestic terror growing domestic terror, threat and you've

1198
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 12: seen a number of arrests over the last, year growing accelerating.

1199
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 5: Number what, please, body we just covered one that wasn't

1200
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 5: the little girl or he was hiding in the? Closet right's?

1201
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 5: Correct and didn't we just cover, that like?

1202
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 3: Tea, yeah it was another.

1203
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 4: Case and, Actually, david when you brought this up when

1204
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 4: we were speaking, EARLIER i didn't realize there were two

1205
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 4: cases so.

1206
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 5: Close so, YEAH i speaking more and, more more and,

1207
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 5: MORE i feel, yeah that was my point bringing it,

1208
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 5: Up LIKE i feel like there's been more and more

1209
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 5: coming out about. It and thank god because every TIME

1210
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 5: i mentioned the seven to six four Network david on social,

1211
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 5: media like people on my comments like, this isn't, Real

1212
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 5: like it's so bad people don't even believe it's.

1213
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 12: Real the most, tragic among the most tragic things about

1214
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 12: it is that they are able to achieve their crimes through.

1215
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 12: Secrecy they're able to achieve their crimes by using The

1216
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,759
Speaker 12: first of, all they target generally kids who are dealing

1217
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 12: with mental health. Challenges this, CASE i think was in

1218
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 12: the charging document that he found his victim in a

1219
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 12: chat room or chat group for chat server for kids

1220
01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 12: who are dealing with depression or anxiety or mental health.

1221
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,719
Speaker 12: Health that's often who they target because they think they're

1222
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 12: a more likely to get those victims to send the

1223
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 12: material and then be they're more likely to get those

1224
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 12: victims not to tell a parent or another adult when

1225
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 12: it turns into blackmail because the child is afraid have

1226
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 12: anyone they feel they can go talk, to and then

1227
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 12: they get taken further and further into that sort of

1228
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 12: cycle of. Abuse AND i think, OFTEN i know often

1229
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 12: because we've, spoke we speak to, them and these victims.

1230
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:35,799
Speaker 7: Think that they have no choice and no way.

1231
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,440
Speaker 12: Out and they think that if they, provide like any blackmail,

1232
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 12: plot you, think if you provide one more, time what

1233
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 12: the perpetrator asks for they will finally let you, go

1234
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 12: and they. Don't they just tighten the grip further and

1235
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 12: it happens in complete silence and. Secrecy but it also

1236
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 12: can happen really. Quickly as you, said this one went

1237
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 12: from first contact to real world sexual assault and nearer

1238
01:09:58,520 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 12: murder into much.

1239
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 4: Unbelievable unbelievable now it's, staggering and do you know how

1240
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 4: how do people even find how do people become a

1241
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 4: member or what kind of? People i'm not looking for a,

1242
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 4: playbook but it does seem so, shadowy, well so decentralized.

1243
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 7: It, yeah we.

1244
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 12: Would we refer to it as a network because it's

1245
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 12: not an organization that has membership in the way that

1246
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 12: some other groups. Do so people that being, said there

1247
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,799
Speaker 12: Are this operates largely through online chat groups Of discord

1248
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 12: has been a popular. One there are others chat groups

1249
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 12: where there is, control so you will have an admin

1250
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 12: or someone who has control over the server who can

1251
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 12: let people, in which also then is a status that.

1252
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 7: That person or person who run the.

1253
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 12: Site have status and can give access to people who share.

1254
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,879
Speaker 12: Currency the currency is the sexually explicit to the, victims

1255
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 12: and so there is a group power dynamic in a

1256
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 12: way where you have to be let in and you

1257
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 12: have to have some sort of currency to get let,

1258
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 12: In but there's not.

1259
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 7: Membership it is a.

1260
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 12: Network it forms organically online and people are attracted to

1261
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 12: it for a number of different. Reasons there's obviously a

1262
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 12: sexual component to, it and there's a component of sexual

1263
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 12: interest in young children to, it but it's not something

1264
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 12: where you see sort of more traditional pedophilia or pedophile,

1265
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:40,440
Speaker 12: involvement because it is far more focused on the violence

1266
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:44,759
Speaker 12: and the blackmail and the induced self harm or. Cutting

1267
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 12: the sexual gratification is really you might say it's a,

1268
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 12: factor but it's not the main factor that appears.

1269
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 7: To be motivating the.

1270
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 5: Conduct it's the clout that they carry from discord server

1271
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 5: to telegram to discord server to this secret channel in

1272
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 5: This WhatsApp, group you, know like it's the cloud they

1273
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 5: carry that's, important and that's the currency.

1274
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 11: TOO i just had a quick, question because so much

1275
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 11: of this happens in private chat rooms or encrypted, platforms

1276
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 11: how difficult is it to investigate or prosecute.

1277
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 3: VERY i would imagine it very very.

1278
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 12: Difficult, yeah it's like to the POINT i made, EARLIER i,

1279
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 12: mean you, know law enforcement doesn't just sit and fish

1280
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 12: in chat.

1281
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 7: Rooms there has to be.

1282
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 12: A reason for AN fbi agent to make contact or

1283
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 12: to start looking at someone's profile or. Communication so these,

1284
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 12: cases just like the cases we discussed, earlier are often

1285
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 12: made because a friend of a, victim a family member

1286
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 12: of a victim says, something or one defendant is arrested

1287
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 12: and we can find the next defendant from the computers

1288
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 12: or phone of.

1289
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 7: The first defendant because they talked to each.

1290
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 12: Other maybe there have been cases where one defendant had

1291
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 12: a library victim organized by, name which was a very,

1292
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 12: helpful obviously roadmap for law, enforcement but very. Helpful the

1293
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 12: key is in this case that where this man was

1294
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 12: arrested in the motel and he is the young victim,

1295
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 12: said you know he was going to have, them ALTHOUGH

1296
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 12: i would wager it was going to be her jump

1297
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 12: off the roof of the motel at.

1298
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 7: The end of the, End oh my, god that her

1299
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 7: mother had.

1300
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 12: In the nick of, time, frankly heroically done enough digging

1301
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 12: to find how enough of what was going on to

1302
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 12: call law enforcement and put them onto the trail and

1303
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:48,600
Speaker 12: they were able to catch up to, them but not

1304
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 12: until some you, know very very tragic crimes had already taken,

1305
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 12: place but it could have been.

1306
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 7: Worse.

1307
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:57,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

1308
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 2: Devastating and are there any like just basic things that you,

1309
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 2: know we talk about some of the basics, here but

1310
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: for anyone, listening it's a lot of dads and moms

1311
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 2: and even young people who just want to like better protect.

1312
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 2: Themselves AND i don't know THAT i have the answer to,

1313
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 2: that other than we do the, obvious you, know make

1314
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 2: sure like the parential controls that are, on and of

1315
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 2: course we should all be doing.

1316
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 3: That but let's be.

1317
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 2: Honest you, know we're raising a generation OF covid kids

1318
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 2: that are frankly smarter than all of not, You, David

1319
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 2: they're not smarter than you or and by the, way

1320
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 2: they're not smarter than anybody. Here i'm going to just

1321
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 2: make myself the person who's the dummy in the room tech,

1322
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: wise you, know it's hard to outsmart this. Generation, so you,

1323
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 2: know how do we keep them? Safe is there some

1324
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 2: one basic thing that we should just always?

1325
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 3: DO i wish it was that, simple, RIGHT i.

1326
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:50,799
Speaker 7: Know let me say a couple of things about. That

1327
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 7: number one is.

1328
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 12: One of the ways that these perpetrators are able to

1329
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 12: find victims is the victims start out a little, bit

1330
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 12: they get. Fooled they get fooled into thinking that the

1331
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:13,600
Speaker 12: perpetrator actually cares about, them or is seducing, them or

1332
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 12: is even in a relationship with.

1333
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 7: Them or is in a community with.

1334
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 12: Them maybe they're going to mutually share sexually explicit photos or.

1335
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 7: Videos they're just afraid love.

1336
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 12: Bombing it doesn't start, violent it doesn't start explicitly. Coeresive

1337
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 12: SO i do think it's appropriate for parents when talking

1338
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 12: to their kids who are going to be. ONLINE i,

1339
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 12: mean obviously monitoring online behaviors is smart but, difficult but

1340
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 12: if your kid is you, know when your kids becoming

1341
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,440
Speaker 12: a teenager and maybe going to be, online.

1342
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 7: And it's difficult to. Police to just have the understanding.

1343
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 12: That when you're communicating with someone who is, anonymous you

1344
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 12: do not know the intent men that that person has for.

1345
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 12: You and it's sad to, say but you have to

1346
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 12: remain skeptical and you aware that people out there may

1347
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 12: not have the best intention before you take that leap

1348
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 12: to be intimate and to reveal something intimate about, yourself

1349
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 12: to really know that you have someone on the other

1350
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 12: side that you can trust and that has your best

1351
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 12: interests in.

1352
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 7: Mind the second THING i want to say about.

1353
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 12: That, is so that's that's what gets them into that's

1354
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 12: what gets the perpetrator. In but then what allows them

1355
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 12: to really twist the knife literally is the kids feel

1356
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 12: like it's worse to tell their parents than it is

1357
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 12: to commit the access self, Farmer it's worse to their

1358
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 12: parents than it is to let the guy.

1359
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 7: Let the person fly all the way out across the.

1360
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 12: Country and why they feel that way when you're twelve

1361
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 12: and thirteen the level of fear at speaking to adults

1362
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:58,680
Speaker 12: or an older. Siblings SO i think the other THING

1363
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 12: i would say is to make sure that your kids

1364
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 12: or younger siblings know that there is talking to you

1365
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 12: is never going to be worse and letting something like that.

1366
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 12: Happen the consequences of telling you that they made a,

1367
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 12: mistake that they sent a video or photo that they

1368
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 12: shouldn't have. Sent the consequences of telling you that can't

1369
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 12: be worse than the consequences of not telling.

1370
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 7: YOU i think parents have to make sure their kids

1371
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 7: understand that really.

1372
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 6: Quick we only have a few minutes.

1373
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:27,560
Speaker 5: Left but how prevalent is the, network how prevalent is

1374
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 5: the seven to six for a network in The United.

1375
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 7: States that's a difficult question to. Answer the.

1376
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 12: Challenge with these groups is that a lot of people

1377
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 12: who are getting into them lurk and live in the

1378
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 12: shadows until they are till they are more. Explicit so

1379
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 12: the number of, cases right is going to be a

1380
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 12: small percentage of the number.

1381
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 7: Of people in the.

1382
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 12: Network that being, said this is, not you, know an

1383
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:07,599
Speaker 12: exploding number of tens of thousands of. INDIVIDUALS i don't

1384
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,759
Speaker 12: think there's any evidence of. THAT i think the challenge

1385
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 12: is that one perpetrator can have a large number of,

1386
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 12: victims and we've seen. That we've seen one defendant with

1387
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 12: more than twenty, victims so you, know each individual can

1388
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 12: have an outsize. Effect and the other THING i would

1389
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 12: say is similar things happen outside of the seven to

1390
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 12: six four. Network, right we see the problem of sex,

1391
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 12: stortion so this is a problem outside of that network as. Well.

1392
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 5: Well, david thank you so much for joining. Us it's

1393
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 5: been incredibly, helpful really eye. Opening we would love to

1394
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 5: have you back anytime. Again thank, You. David, ryan you're

1395
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 5: listening To True Crime tonight stick.

1396
01:18:52,720 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 2: Around welcome back To True Crime tonight An. iHeartRadio we've

1397
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 2: been talking true crime all the time for.

1398
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 3: Starters how great Is Attorney David.

1399
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 2: Ryan, yeah he's coming in here and explaining to us

1400
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 2: about seven six. Four and also like with basic clean,

1401
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 2: advice which, is you, know we can't always control everything

1402
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 2: our kids are seeing or our loved ones, are you,

1403
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:25,120
Speaker 2: know finding.

1404
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 3: Online it's really kind of impossible to.

1405
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 2: Navigate but just making sure the pregame is to make

1406
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 2: sure that your kid knows that you know you're safe

1407
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 2: and that no matter what the mistake, is that there

1408
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 2: is a safe. Landing and it was so perfectly, stated you,

1409
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:46,719
Speaker 2: know telling your appearance is it should be easier than

1410
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 2: falling for this terrible decision or you're feeling roped in

1411
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 2: by some. PREDATOR i can only imagine being, twelve thirteen years, old,

1412
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 2: heck being twenty two years old for a mistake and

1413
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 2: feeling like somebody's going to release something on the.

1414
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 3: Internet even if.

1415
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 2: Devastated you, know it's enough to to all the Things

1416
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 2: i'm saying the, obvious but you, know, body just one

1417
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 2: last thing actually funny.

1418
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 3: ENOUGH i was in a very a very.

1419
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,679
Speaker 2: Big conversation today about, safety AND i was talking about

1420
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 2: the show and how we're always looking for tips AND

1421
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 2: i repeated, yours AND i was, like you, know the

1422
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 2: number one thing that body said she would do if

1423
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:27,960
Speaker 2: she was abducted and thrown in the back of a,

1424
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 2: Car and they, SAID i, listened and she said she

1425
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 2: would lick the window because that would leave BEHIND. Dna

1426
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 2: and by the, way it's really good. Advice so you,

1427
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 2: know a couple of those. Things AND i had a

1428
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 2: few more to add to, that SO i would to

1429
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 2: be called the window looker from now on. Exactly i'm,

1430
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 2: like WHEN i see somebody licking a, Window i'm going

1431
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 2: to know that they're in.

1432
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 3: Trouble that is a.

1433
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 2: Sign but also you, know and, again if you ever

1434
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 2: find yourself in a situation where you want to call,

1435
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 2: authorities for, EXAMPLE i thought this was a good. Tip

1436
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 2: and you can't really speak on the phone because you're

1437
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 2: maybe with somebody that is.

1438
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 3: The problem and you can't share. Anything you dial five to.

1439
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 3: Five did you know? THAT i didn't know. This it's,

1440
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 3: like it's, Okay so they say dial Like i'm too

1441
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 3: afraid to.

1442
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 2: Check i'm too afraid to check BECAUSE i don't want

1443
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 2: to bother the police and have them show up at

1444
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 2: the door. Here but it sounds, like, yeah if you

1445
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 2: dial five, five then authorities would know that you can't

1446
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 2: speak and to. Come or even if you call nine

1447
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 2: one one and you pretend that you're ordering a pizza

1448
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 2: and i'd word pizza gets a lot of chatter these.

1449
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 2: Days but according to this list that was generated to

1450
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,759
Speaker 2: me that if, you you, know say to the, Police,

1451
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 2: Hi i'm calling from this address and i'd like to

1452
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 2: order a pizza or do you guys, deliver they'll get

1453
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 2: the cue that there's troubled waters.

1454
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:52,719
Speaker 3: There so that's.

1455
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 6: THAT a long time, AGO i didn't realize that was actually.

1456
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 2: True, yeah good one, Right and If god forbid you

1457
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 2: ever find yourself in the back of a, trunk if

1458
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 2: you're being like trapped in a, trunk kick out the tail.

1459
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 2: Light you can kick it out from the interior of

1460
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 2: your truck of the trunk and then stick your hand

1461
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 2: or your foot out and hopefully the person behind you

1462
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 2: sees a, limb you, know shaking outside of the tail,

1463
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 2: light and hopefully they'll call.

1464
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 3: Authorities kind of you.

1465
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 5: Something If i'm driving down the street AND i see

1466
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:29,640
Speaker 5: somebody's hand on a, leg, hang, Yeah i'm going to

1467
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 5: Be i'm gonna be like the detective body.

1468
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 3: Is on, it and you're going to follow them. Back

1469
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 3: i'll call nine one. ONE i am a, girl. GIRL

1470
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 3: i got your.

1471
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 5: Back, ladies IF i, HANGING i promise You i'm going

1472
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 5: to be.

1473
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 2: Following and also just spit. Everywhere and that's another thing

1474
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 2: we had. MENTIONED i don't know WHY i want this.

1475
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 2: KICK i feel Like David ryan covered so much. Already

1476
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 2: but vomiting also there's like A dna probably to be

1477
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,679
Speaker 2: found in, that and, frankly nobody wants to abduct the vomiting.

1478
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 2: Person probably same for urinating your pants, exactly not so.

1479
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 2: Fun also there's probably SOME dna attached to.

1480
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 3: That i've had a couple of cocktails.

1481
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 2: Exactly whatever, works is, right and then scratch and kick like,

1482
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 2: hell because REMEMBER dna under the fingertips.

1483
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 3: Scratches nobody wants to have.

1484
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,639
Speaker 2: Those how many how many cases have we covered where

1485
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 2: you know the final nail in the coffin was the

1486
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 2: person actually had scratch, marks right, yeah so you, know

1487
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 2: very very by the, way where even saw that with The,

1488
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 2: bachelorette right like that was one of the defining things

1489
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 2: was there were scratches. Involved so, anyway just like small

1490
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 2: things to either share with your loved, ones or your

1491
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 2: daughters or your nieces or yourselves and your sisters and,

1492
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 2: brothers and you, know just in case you find yourself

1493
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 2: in a funky, situation and just to, reiterate try not

1494
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 2: to get in the car even if somebody is again

1495
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 2: this is it sounds like a crazy thing BECAUSE i

1496
01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 2: would be so obedient until.

1497
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 3: Now karate chop.

1498
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 2: Them but in, theory even if somebody comes up behind

1499
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 2: you with, like first of, all give them, anything don't

1500
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 2: ever fight over your, wallet, right like come on the,

1501
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 2: Headphones like just hand it over and get on with the.

1502
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 2: Show but if, there if you're really getting into a,

1503
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 2: vehicle your chance of survival goes down fifty.

1504
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 3: Percent that's what it.

1505
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 2: Said so you just want to scream and be super

1506
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 2: annoying and scratch and apparently saliva everywhere is a great

1507
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 2: way to be.

1508
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 3: Found.

1509
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 5: Goods pulling my hairs, out pulling your hairs, out that's,

1510
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 5: right licking the.

1511
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 3: WINDOW i, MEAN i would be LIKE i would, be don't.

1512
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 2: TRY i couldn't remember in the, MOMENT i couldn't remember

1513
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 2: your other, tip and it WAS i thinking.

1514
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:50,720
Speaker 3: About does that.

1515
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 2: Time from that's WHAT i couldn't remember, it SO'S.

1516
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 3: I would be IF i did, THAT i do so,

1517
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 3: anyway those are some.

1518
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 2: Tips if anybody has, more you, know please keep them,

1519
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 2: coming because again we're, like we got to keep each other,

1520
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 2: safe especially during these wonky, times especially as all these

1521
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 2: meteors are falling out of the.

1522
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 3: Sky we didn't even talk about.

1523
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 7: That the.

1524
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 6: General is missing What Elon musk is somehow.

1525
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 3: INVOLVED i just know his, brother his.

1526
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 2: Brother like the big drone guy allegedly allegedly, ALLEGEDLY i don't.

1527
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 2: Know there's a couple of things THAT i keep seeing popping,

1528
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 2: up WHICH i know is my. Algorithm so this is

1529
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:40,719
Speaker 2: we're now gonna lead in fact as the algorithm needs

1530
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 2: to be. Crazy it's either like dogs because you, Know

1531
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:46,680
Speaker 2: i'm desperate for a. Puppy ALL i do is like

1532
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 2: watch cute dog talk videos and get choked. Up or

1533
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 2: it's pure murder and how to stay. Alive SO i

1534
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 2: in this, CASE i lost my. THOUGHT i just started

1535
01:25:56,840 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 2: thinking about cute. Dogs so the, meteorites the METEOR i,

1536
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 2: mean the meters are a real.

1537
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 3: THING i mean these are there are a. Ton Didn't, California.

1538
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:12,839
Speaker 2: Ye multiple just in Northern. California they did In, Ohio,

1539
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 2: texas you, know and they also allegedly have like kind

1540
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 2: of a green, tail which is apparently a little unusual

1541
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,080
Speaker 2: for metea or. Meteors happened that that's, LIKE i don't know,

1542
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 2: common but it seems like they're falling out of.

1543
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:26,559
Speaker 3: The sky a lot these.

1544
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:33,679
Speaker 4: Days SO i went earlier Because stephanie had sent she did, Something, well.

1545
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 3: A very big. Rock have you found that in your?

1546
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 3: Backyard do you think you wouldn't be? Floored?

1547
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 4: Absolutely no meteor that fell In. Coachella and SO i

1548
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 4: went TO i forget it. Was it was a meteor

1549
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 4: metiological institute or.

1550
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 3: Something that's WHAT i went.

1551
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 4: To and it seems it doesn't seem like there is

1552
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 4: a gross uptick in being able to know that they're

1553
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 4: here because there are so many cameras, everywhere.

1554
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 3: And that it's that and it you, know, ZELONS i

1555
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:08,240
Speaker 3: don't know They.

1556
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 8: So it's it's.

1557
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 11: This this has always been, happening but we're just seeing it

1558
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 11: more because everyone has a phone that can record. It

1559
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 11: is what it sounds, like you're, saying a.

1560
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 3: PHONE i don't buy.

1561
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 2: IT i think you, guys we're going to have to

1562
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 2: Have sam is nodding his. HEAD i know he's agreeing

1563
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 2: with but it's probably be. Me it's a mix Of,

1564
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 2: okay he's just agreed with every single one of. Us

1565
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,559
Speaker 2: BUT i, mean these meteors are falling out of the.

1566
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 2: Sky SO i keep hearing chatter about this in That,

1567
01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 2: really when there's going to be, disclosure which by the,

1568
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:43,960
Speaker 2: way there already has. BEEN i, mean The pentagon has

1569
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 2: acknowledged that there have been these unidentified, objects if you.

1570
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 2: Will but we don't know the source of. That we

1571
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 2: don't know if it's you, know it could be a foreign,

1572
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 2: government it could be a. Drone you, know it could

1573
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 2: be all kinds of. Things it doesn't mean there's an alien.

1574
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 2: Invasion and by the, way aliens don't necessarily have to

1575
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:03,240
Speaker 2: be a bad. Thing maybe they'll bring some love upon.

1576
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 2: US i think that's not a bad thing. Either allegedly

1577
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,759
Speaker 2: they're under the, water that's the big that's the. Gossip

1578
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 2: so it's based on, nothing by the, way this is

1579
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 2: based on algorithm, chatter but that we know. Less we

1580
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 2: know more about space than we do about the ocean.

1581
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 3: And the, underwater and that these orbs.

1582
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:27,639
Speaker 2: And things, allegedly allegedly allegedly are coming from beneath, us

1583
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 2: not above.

1584
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 8: Who i'm picturing all these fish.

1585
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 3: PEOPLE i don't love all that underwater. Stuff i'm a little.

1586
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 3: Afraid i'm a decent, swimmer but not a great. One

1587
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 3: i'm the first to die in this.

1588
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:44,920
Speaker 5: Movie you guys want to do some talk, box that's,

1589
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 5: good that's.

1590
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 9: TRUE i just want to talk About Taylor Frankie paul's

1591
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 9: because the thing That i'm not quite sure about is

1592
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 9: like she got let go because of her instant from

1593
01:28:55,920 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 9: twenty to twenty, three which was discussed heavily and thoroughly

1594
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 9: On Secret lives And Mormon, wise which is exactly so

1595
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:07,679
Speaker 9: under The disney reality show. Umbrella so it's just it's

1596
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 9: wild to me that they didn't seem to know much

1597
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 9: about that when they cast her On The. Bachelor when

1598
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 9: you Watch Mormon, wives the whole season that just came

1599
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 9: out was all about How taylor's going to mess it

1600
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 9: all up because she's a, mess and that's what. Happens

1601
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 9: it's wild that the people above the cast didn't seem

1602
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:28,719
Speaker 9: to watch the, show didn't seem to know anything about

1603
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 9: it before they cast her. On there love, you, guys

1604
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:31,400
Speaker 9: thank you for Your.

1605
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,599
Speaker 3: We love you such we were saying these.

1606
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:40,880
Speaker 2: In the break give me those people didn't. Know go,

1607
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 2: Ahead court sing it for.

1608
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 4: Us, no JUST i couldn't agree with. You more like

1609
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 4: the question of oh did they? Know how didn't they uncover?

1610
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 3: It they?

1611
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 4: Did of.

1612
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 3: Course flip YOUR tv. On you can know it. All

1613
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 3: you aired it all, like, right it's, yeah it's. Crazy

1614
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 3: it's a little funny thing. Though so you, look, listen

1615
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 3: love makes people crazy to some.

1616
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 2: Degree, Right so if you go on The, bachelor even

1617
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,439
Speaker 2: in the best, circumstances, right it makes you a little

1618
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 2: passionate and, listen it can put you a little off

1619
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 2: your rocker or raise your hand if you've ever been

1620
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,679
Speaker 2: on your rocker or off of it because of love

1621
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,559
Speaker 2: at some point in your. Life, Right so that's a

1622
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:21,519
Speaker 2: universal truth to some. Degree so you take thirty or

1623
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 2: twenty two saying healthy humans and put them in a

1624
01:30:26,360 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 2: house for thirty days to find. Love even with the

1625
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:33,680
Speaker 2: perfect humans that have been everything, tested all, things.

1626
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 3: You, know people go a little. Crazy, okay that's what

1627
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 3: probably the basis of a show.

1628
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 2: Is you don't go casting the. Crazy you, know you

1629
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 2: don't put somebody that is air. Quotes it's like so

1630
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,599
Speaker 2: low rent in a, way like you're just really casting

1631
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 2: because we just you just assume that we're just all

1632
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 2: like that are just eat it up because it's just

1633
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 2: because they.

1634
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 11: Know because but people will like if you know that

1635
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 11: you've got someone that is going to flip a table

1636
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:02,599
Speaker 11: or like get really overly.

1637
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 8: Emotional if one of the, GUYS i don't.

1638
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 3: Know it's like so, Old LIKE i feel like we're

1639
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 3: kind OF i feel LIKE i feel like we're over.

1640
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 3: YET i mean, listen AND i worked on all of, them.

1641
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,680
Speaker 5: Like we can count on C span and see that In, congress,

1642
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 5: right literally too.

1643
01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 3: Much let's get some better our reality.

1644
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:22,679
Speaker 2: Exactly just go to one of the, appointed the New ice.

1645
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:24,599
Speaker 2: Guy they're literally, like learn take you want to get

1646
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 2: in a. Fight so, YEAH i think that maybe the

1647
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 2: world's gotten so crazy and heated that maybe this show

1648
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 2: is being also so.

1649
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 11: CRAZY i think we're evolving's just trying to find people

1650
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:38,000
Speaker 11: like get more eyes on the. Show like everyone has

1651
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 11: shifted away from you, know Watching like.

1652
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 5: Listen people at the water, cooler they're not, like oh

1653
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 5: did you see that sweet girl in The?

1654
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 8: Bachelorette they did you see?

1655
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 3: Her go crazy like?

1656
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 2: That it's when the sweet girl, is you, know heartbroken over,

1657
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,719
Speaker 2: love you feel it a lot. More it's not your doing,

1658
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 2: television you, Know so that's like real emoent is WHAT

1659
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 2: i think the spirit of it was supposed to, be

1660
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 2: and now it just feels like, it's, oh let's just get.

1661
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:06,679
Speaker 3: Crazy emotion at all.

1662
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:09,680
Speaker 2: Costs AND i just think as, audiences we've by the,

1663
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 2: way this is like Not i'm not on a. Soapbox

1664
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 2: i've loved all these shows and that you, Know i've

1665
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:17,640
Speaker 2: worked on so many in the early, days AND i

1666
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 2: just think we're all kind of evolving a little.

1667
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 3: BIT i would.

1668
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 6: AGREE i don't think we're there, yet BUT i.

1669
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:25,599
Speaker 3: Know we don't have to bail love that. It, yeah

1670
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 3: but WHAT i really want to marry.

1671
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 2: One but like that is just because you, KNOW i

1672
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:35,800
Speaker 2: take that, Back. Luanne you know, Whatever let's do.

1673
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 3: Another talk back.

1674
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 13: Guys jordan From arizona And i'm listening to your episode

1675
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 13: about The afroman civil trials AND i hear you that

1676
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:49,719
Speaker 13: saying that After, cooley who has been in this video

1677
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 13: is now looking over his shoulder like he's afraid of

1678
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 13: the pound, cake which just, ridiculous and what a waste of,

1679
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:00,800
Speaker 13: money this whole. Lot it just sounds, Crazy and to be,

1680
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 13: HONEST i would be grateful for all of the.

1681
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:12,960
Speaker 3: Give me some. Strawberries i'm good to wait to look

1682
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 3: a gift cake in the. Mouth, yes.

1683
01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:22,640
Speaker 8: Everyone in on that case in case people had missed what.

1684
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:25,639
Speaker 5: WE i, mean listen these you have sixty, seconds, babe

1685
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 5: it's too. Long But afroman won his. Lawsuit he was

1686
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:34,599
Speaker 5: being sued for defamation by The sheriff's. Department they raided

1687
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,760
Speaker 5: his home with a warrant and they tore it. Up

1688
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 5: but you, know there was some pound cake on the

1689
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 5: counter and the, officer you, know the portly, officer kind

1690
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 5: of was looking at it a little. Bit So afroman

1691
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 5: wrote a. Song they sued him for. Defamation anyone is?

1692
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 5: That AND i agree with. You they should have what

1693
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,360
Speaker 5: a waste Of, yeah what a waste of.

1694
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:57,960
Speaker 4: Money and they should have gone and cried in a

1695
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 4: corner and been embarrassed by themselves and so up bringing

1696
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 4: this ridiculous.

1697
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 8: Litigation because everyone now went to watch the. Video if

1698
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 8: you hadn't heard about, it this, case.

1699
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 5: Now everybody's going To afroman's YouTube. Channel by the, way

1700
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:12,360
Speaker 5: he's got over a million subscribers at this.

1701
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 3: POINT i love. It i'm already.

1702
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:18,600
Speaker 5: And you know it's literally the stry sand. Effect and

1703
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 5: if you don't know what that. Is you, know just google,

1704
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:23,640
Speaker 5: it but. Listen if you don't want somebody to know about, something.

1705
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 3: Don't bring attention to.

1706
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:24,920
Speaker 9: It keep.

1707
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 3: Quiet, oh by the, way, tomorrow don't.

1708
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:29,800
Speaker 2: Forget we Have Joseph Scott morgan with us tomorrow and

1709
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:34,759
Speaker 2: finally the autopsy report of the Hideous ohio. Murderers remember

1710
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:39,439
Speaker 2: the double homicide with The tepee, Family So Joseph Scott morgan.

1711
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 3: Is going to break down the.

1712
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 2: Forensics they are far scarier than we even. Thought so

1713
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:47,000
Speaker 2: all that and, more thanks for joining us.

1714
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 3: Tonight we will be back. Tomorrow stacy