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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 2: What do we have, Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do lots of big news breaking here and internationally.

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Speaker 1: It looks like that Ukrainian counter offensive has in fact

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Speaker 1: the gun, so we'll bring you all of those details.

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Speaker 1: Also some pretty stunning details about the way the media

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Speaker 1: has been covering this conflict that we must get into.

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Speaker 1: As well some big developments in terms of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: We've actually got a new content Cornell West, doctor West,

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Speaker 1: is joining the race as a People's Party candidate. We

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Speaker 1: also have some new tea leaves. Looks like Trump may

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Speaker 1: be invited again quite imminently, so we'll tell you about

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Speaker 1: that big story in the UFO world. A whistleblower has

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Speaker 1: come forward alleging that they have actually recovered craft. We've

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Speaker 1: got a guest on to talk about this. Sager is

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Speaker 1: chomping at the bit to dig into this one as well, So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: give you all the details there. We've gotten new charges

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Speaker 1: filed against Finance, largest crypto exchange platform in the world,

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Speaker 1: and some pretty stunning revelations from within there the discovery process,

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Speaker 1: some texts that are pretty damning in terms of their case,

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Speaker 1: and a quite interesting exchange between Senator Tim Scott, who

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Speaker 1: is running for president and the ladies of the View

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Speaker 1: that we want to talk about as well. Before we

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Speaker 1: get to any of that, though, there is a reason

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Speaker 1: why we are doing the show remotely instead of in

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Speaker 1: any studio. Sager, what is that reason?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, The reason is is that, as we've said last time,

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Speaker 2: you guys have to hear about it. We are building

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Speaker 2: that brand new, beautiful set that it's all coming together.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely stunning for a big debut next week.

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Speaker 2: As a reminder, premium subscribers will get a very first

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Speaker 2: look at the set we be announcing very soon via email.

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Speaker 2: So if you want to become a premium subscriber, it's

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Speaker 2: breakingpoints dot com not only to get a first look,

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Speaker 2: but also to help us with the expense is the

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Speaker 2: largest expense in the history of Breaking Points. It's basically

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Speaker 2: like we bought several cars and houses over there, Crystal.

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Speaker 2: But the reason why, the reason why is because we

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Speaker 2: believe very much in investing in the show, giving everybody

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Speaker 2: the premium and the best experience possible, and making sure

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Speaker 2: that we are absolutely one, ready and set. We've got

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Speaker 2: some great guests already lined up for the first week

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Speaker 2: that I think everybody's going to be really really excited

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Speaker 2: about and honestly kind of shocked once they debut. So

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Speaker 2: I'm pumped, I really am. And yeah, we still got

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Speaker 2: a great show though for everybody here Counterpoints tomorrow and

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Speaker 2: they'll have another show on Thursday, remotely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And actually, Sager and I got our first look

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Speaker 1: at the CEO yesterday and it is quite I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is quite stunning.

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Speaker 2: I was blown away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally blown away. It is amazing. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: it's our new home. So can't wait to share it

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Speaker 1: with all of you guys before we jump into the show.

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Speaker 1: Just apologies for my voice struggling with a cold. Actually

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Speaker 1: feel a lot better but sound a bit worse. You

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Speaker 1: know that fad the cold, So bear with me today,

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Speaker 1: my apologies in advance.

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Speaker 2: The brutal summer cold comes for us. All okay, let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead.

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Speaker 1: These kids are killing me. Let me tell you, it's

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Speaker 1: been brutal this whole year.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure all parents can probably sympathize. All right, let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead and get to the Ukraine counter offensive. We'll

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Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen. Indications from the

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Speaker 2: intelligence community leaking to the US media and also from

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Speaker 2: the Russians saying that the Ukrainian counter offensive has begun.

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Speaker 2: Kiev is denying that the counter offensive has begun, but

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff is being picked up on open

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Speaker 2: source satellite showing some movement across several key areas of

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Speaker 2: the front. The biggest development, however, happened overnight in US

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Speaker 2: time with the Collie aaps of a major dam in

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Speaker 2: southern Ukraine, which has triggered a major emergency. Both Moscow

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Speaker 2: and Kiev are actually blaming each other for the collapse

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Speaker 2: of the dam. So I'm going to go ahead and

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Speaker 2: give everybody here the details. The dam is in the

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Speaker 2: part of southern Ukraine which is actually controlled by Moscow.

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Speaker 2: So the collapse has now triggered floods and is actually

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Speaker 2: now endangering the largest nuclear power plant inside of Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: which is currently under Russian control. Not only that, is

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Speaker 2: actually currently threatening drinking water supplies for both sides of

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Speaker 2: the war as they're currently trying to evacuate residents and

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Speaker 2: are blaming each other. So, as I said, Ukraine is

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Speaker 2: currently accusing the Russian forces of blowing up the Kakova

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Speaker 2: Dam and the hydro electric power station. Russian officials are

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Speaker 2: saying that Ukrainian military strikes in the contested area are

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Speaker 2: the ones that are responsible. Of course, nobody can verify

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Speaker 2: what exactly is going on here, But of really immediate

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Speaker 2: concern is ay all of the people in this area.

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Speaker 2: It's obviously a disaster whenever you are triggering a major

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Speaker 2: flood like this to the downstream, and emergency crews who

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Speaker 2: are having evacuations are rushing to get people out of there.

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Speaker 2: But then finally, is really that nuclear power plant, which

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Speaker 2: you know has been at the center of so much

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Speaker 2: consternation just because of scares of an accident, and especially

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Speaker 2: because you know, everyone here knows I'm pro nuclear, but

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Speaker 2: of course you know it's like whenever a foreign government

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Speaker 2: is going to invade, take it over and then effectively

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Speaker 2: try to weaponize said nuclear power plant, that's when things

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Speaker 2: get a little bit tricky, right, And same would be

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Speaker 2: safe for any other type of energy station. And clearly

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Speaker 2: this is now being contested. It's probably crystal one of

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Speaker 2: those where we will never know who is responsible. But

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a blow obviously to Russia because this

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Speaker 2: is something now that they have to deal with because

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Speaker 2: it's in their territory and also it was in Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's in territory that they controlled, and now they have

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Speaker 2: to divert resources. But also you know Ukraine, if they

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Speaker 2: do want to recapture their own territory, it's not something

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Speaker 2: that you want it to necessary be devastated. So I'm

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Speaker 2: not even even entirely sure yet about who benefits from this.

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Speaker 2: It's just a humanitarian catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, same, And I mean anytime you're talking about targeting

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Speaker 1: civilian infrastructure, this is a disaster, it's honestly a war crime.

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Speaker 1: And this was a hugely important dam in terms of

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Speaker 1: electricity and energy generation within Ukraine. So not only the flooding,

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Speaker 1: not only the concerns about the nuclear plan, but also

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Speaker 1: some you know, real concerns about power generation, which obviously

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Speaker 1: is critical for people's lives as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really sad, and you know, actually missiles continue

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Speaker 2: to rain down on Kiev and just absolutely brutal attacks

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Speaker 2: all over civilian infrastructure. Let's go ahead and put this

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Speaker 2: on the screen, Zelenski saying, quote, we are ready for

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Speaker 2: the counter offensive. This comes a month after he gave

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Speaker 2: another interview where he said that the counter offensive was beginning,

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Speaker 2: so you know, don't necessarily take it all to the bank.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, what I.

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Speaker 1: Thought was interesting in this interview too, is he really

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Speaker 1: sort of downplayed expectation for what they would be able

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Speaker 1: to achieve in the counter offensive. He also, you know,

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Speaker 1: sounded some of the notes that he sounded before about

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Speaker 1: On the one hand, he would express a lot of

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Speaker 1: gratitude for the amount of support he's received. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, he would express a lot of frustration that

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Speaker 1: there wasn't even more flowing to him and more rapidly,

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Speaker 1: which you know, I guess understandable, but he says, I

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Speaker 1: would not want such a country with regards to China

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Speaker 1: to stand by and watch people die. So also still

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Speaker 1: not totally you know, sort of severing the Chinese relationship,

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Speaker 1: being hopeful in some way, or guess holding out some

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Speaker 1: sort of possibility that China could be a good actor

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Speaker 1: here in terms of brokering an eventual peace. But those,

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Speaker 1: to me were the most noteworthy parts of that interview.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let me read here what he said, quote, we

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Speaker 2: strongly believe we will succeed. However, I don't know how

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Speaker 2: long it will take, and quote to be honest, it

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Speaker 2: can go a variety of ways, completely different. But we

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Speaker 2: are going to do it, and we are ready not

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Speaker 2: sounding the same triumphant note that they did ahead of

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Speaker 2: the offensive last year, although look, I mean the smart

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Speaker 2: thing to do is always to downplay expectation and then

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Speaker 2: to overperform so that you look good. So we have

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Speaker 2: no idea. The General Millie, actually the US top general,

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Speaker 2: yesterday gave an interview where he said that the Ukrainians

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Speaker 2: were quote well prepared, but said he didn't know how

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Speaker 2: he thought it was going to go, also basically sounding

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Speaker 2: the exact same thing. Also the Russians, even though literally

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Speaker 2: the offensive has just started, now say actually we've thwarted it.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry. Let's go ahead and put the stuff there

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Speaker 2: the Defense Ministry put out a statement yesterday saying it

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Speaker 2: has thwarted a major Ukrainian attack in Dnetsk region. And

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Speaker 2: they say that they show military vehicles under heavy fire

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Speaker 2: and claim that they have killed three hundred troops and

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Speaker 2: destroyed sixteen tanks. Something tells me that, you know, just

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Speaker 2: repelling a single attack, if that even happened, isn't exactly

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Speaker 2: repelling the entire offensive. So I have no idea how

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Speaker 2: this one is going to go. This is one of

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Speaker 2: those weight and see moments. And actually another important thing too,

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Speaker 2: which is a story we're going to get to later on.

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Speaker 2: Given media coverage, this story that we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about later in the show, just can out give the

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Speaker 2: teas away. It's basically, the Ukrainian government is heavy handed,

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Speaker 2: let's just say, in terms of how it treats American

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Speaker 2: journalists who depart from the narrative and report what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Everyone needs to be very, very skeptical of every single

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Speaker 2: thing that you see come out of Ukraine. From the

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Speaker 2: Russian side, from the Ukrainian side, we are being lied

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Speaker 2: to left, right, and center. And it's basically like you

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Speaker 2: have to try and average the three and see maybe

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Speaker 2: that one is directionally, especially in the middle of this conflict.

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Speaker 2: So do not believe a word that the Russians say,

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Speaker 2: and do not believe a word that the Ukrainians say

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Speaker 2: about what's actually going on in the ground. This is

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Speaker 2: truly like a complete wait and see moment about how

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Speaker 2: exactly the actual battle turns out. So we don't know yet.

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Speaker 2: We don't even really have confirmations in terms of maps.

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Speaker 2: I looked for several from some open source intelligence analysts.

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Speaker 2: The best that I have been able to find is

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Speaker 2: just a general consensus that yes, it has begun. We'll

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Speaker 2: see how it works out. Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's about all you can and say

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Speaker 1: it at this point.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's go to the next part here. This one

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Speaker 2: is also a very significant story and also gets to

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Speaker 2: some of the dangers who are involved. Let's go and

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Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen from CNN, leaked

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Speaker 2: to their intelligence community's favorite journalist Natasha Bertrand, Ukraine has

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Speaker 2: cultivated sabotage agents inside of Russia and is giving them

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Speaker 2: drones to stage attacks. Sources say, what you can really

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Speaker 2: read here is they say that Ukraine has cultivated a

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Speaker 2: network of sympathizers and agents inside of Russia working to

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Speaker 2: carry out acts of sabotage against Russian targets, providing them

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Speaker 2: with drones to stage attacks. US officials believe these quote

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Speaker 2: unquote pro Ukrainian agents inside Russia aka intel operatives, carried

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Speaker 2: out the drone attack that targeted the Kremlin earlier in May,

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Speaker 2: and they say that they are not yet quite ready

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Speaker 2: to ascribe the same level of attribution on these residential

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Speaker 2: neighborhood bombing, our drone attack in Moscow and then also

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Speaker 2: on the oil refineries in southern Russia. However, they believe

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Speaker 2: that the development of sabotage shells is made up of

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Speaker 2: quote a mix of pro Ukrainian sympathizers but also operatives

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Speaker 2: well trained in this kind of warfare by the intelligence officials. Also,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of interesting that they get to the exact

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Speaker 2: way that they are doing this. A lot of it

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Speaker 2: is not just ideology, A lot of it is just

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Speaker 2: straight up bribery, it says cash Works Wonders, one of

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Speaker 2: the European intelligence officials who actually has worked in the area,

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Speaker 2: says that it is quote ripe for smuggling, something that

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Speaker 2: Ukrainians have quote been doing for the better part of

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Speaker 2: a decade, and that the Ukrainian intelligence community and others

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Speaker 2: are very adept at I guess, let's just say, using

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Speaker 2: the illicit networks that they are well familiar with. Now,

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Speaker 2: obviously this is these stories only come to light when

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Speaker 2: the CIA and the intelligence community is trying to pull

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainians back, And I think that's why we should

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Speaker 2: always try to remember, all of this is controlled. All

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Speaker 2: of this is controlled opposition. You know, everything about Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: anything even remotely critical about Ukraine is always couched in

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Speaker 2: the nicest possible terms, of which we will show you

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Speaker 2: my personal favorite example in a little bit. This particular

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Speaker 2: one though, is every time that they start bombing the

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Speaker 2: Crimean Bridge, that they start you know, attacking Moscow with

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Speaker 2: drones a couple of times, you know, blowing up the

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Speaker 2: Nord Stream pipeline. That's when the CIA and all of them,

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Speaker 2: the Biden administration too, are put in a very very

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Speaker 2: difficult spot. I also think it is funny because some

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Speaker 2: of the most pro Ukraine people I see are always

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Speaker 2: defending Ukraine's right to attack Moscow, as if that's the argument.

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Speaker 2: It's never it's never somehow able to have the nuance

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Speaker 2: in their heads where someone can say it was a fool.

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Speaker 2: It is completely fine for or countries at war to

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Speaker 2: attack each other and if they, of course, quote unquote

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Speaker 2: have the right to, but the externality effects on so

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Speaker 2: said country's allies are something that those allies should calibrate

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Speaker 2: to whether they're good for their interests or not. I

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Speaker 2: really have no idea how people are incapable of separating

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Speaker 2: those two. Nobody's attacking Ukraine's rights to defend itself, only

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Speaker 2: the level of US support, and then, you know, a

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Speaker 2: level of US responsibilities should should such an attack trigger

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Speaker 2: an actual counterattack, which would be devastating and would escalate

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Speaker 2: the war. And I don't think anyone, including of course

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Speaker 2: the Biden administration and now the CIA clearly who are

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Speaker 2: leaking these stories Crystal, can even dispute that if they

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Speaker 2: supported it, then they would keep their mouth shut. They're

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Speaker 2: only leaking it because they want the Ukrainians to stop

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Speaker 2: and they want to keep making it known to all

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Speaker 2: of them. They're like, hey, yeah, we may not slap

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Speaker 2: you on the wrist, you know, in person, we're also

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Speaker 2: going to make it known in the public, like we

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Speaker 2: didn't have anything to do with this. Because this is

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Speaker 2: also probably a signal to Russia just to be like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: like this one's not on us, so you know, just

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Speaker 2: make sure this one is not with our support.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean defending yourself targeting your enemy, that's all

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Speaker 1: fair bounds. Targeting residential apartment buildings is another matter. It's

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Speaker 1: not acceptable when Russia does it. It's not acceptable when

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Speaker 1: Ukraine does it. There was, also, of course, in this

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Speaker 1: article tager the typical language about like, well it was

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Speaker 1: probably Ukrainians in Russia, but Vilenski didn't know anything about it.

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Speaker 1: They say, who exactly is controlling these assets is murky.

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Speaker 1: US officials believe elements within Ukraine's intelligence community are involved.

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian President Sala set general parameters for what is intelligent

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Speaker 1: security services are allowed to do. Two of the sources said,

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Speaker 1: but not every operation requires sign off, so again trying

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Speaker 1: to give him a little bit of distance from this operation,

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Speaker 1: which is just every single report, without fail includes a

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Speaker 1: very similar language to this. But they also have some

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Speaker 1: intel here about the way that the US feels about this,

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Speaker 1: at least the way the US wants to tell CNA

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Speaker 1: they feel about it. They say publicly, senior US officials

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Speaker 1: have condemned the strikes inside Russia, warning of the potential

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Speaker 1: for an escalation of the war. Those are the concerns,

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Speaker 1: you know, that we have been sharing and continue to

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Speaker 1: have on speaking privately to CNN, US and Western officials

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Speaker 1: said they believe the cross border attacks are a smart

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Speaker 1: military strategy that could divert Russian resources to protecting its

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Speaker 1: own territory as Ukraine gears up for a major counter offensive. Now,

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Speaker 1: it might be true that this is a smart strategy

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Speaker 1: if you are just looking at it from the Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: perspective of, you know, distracting Russia, forcing them to have

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Speaker 1: to defend their own population and not concentrate all of

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Speaker 1: their resources on the battlefield to thwart this coming counter

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Speaker 1: offensive that appears to now have begun. But what about

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Speaker 1: our interestingness, what about trying to maintain, you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to mitigate any possibility of escalation. The fact that you

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Speaker 1: have US officials signaling this, I mean, that shows you

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Speaker 1: and it kind of proves Russia's point too, that we

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Speaker 1: are tacitly backing and accepting these type of very dangerous

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Speaker 1: and potentially escalatory operations within Russia's borders certainly gives them

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Speaker 1: fodder to feel like, oh, yeah, the US is cool

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Speaker 1: with this. They've given the Ukrainians tasks that approval, and

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Speaker 1: you know, wouldn't be shocked if there's US resources involved here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I always just point back to remember

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Speaker 2: the fake story about Russian bounties back in the Trump era,

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Speaker 2: completely fake story, by the way, But when that happened,

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Speaker 2: you had US senators and other US officials saying, Okay,

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Speaker 2: now we need to kill Russians. I mean, look, Russia

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Speaker 2: is the same, They're not all that different from us.

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Speaker 2: Why wouldn't they feel the exact same way. And that

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Speaker 2: was with just TACIT support. So you know, listen, what

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Speaker 2: goes around can come around. And none of this is

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Speaker 2: an endorsement, it's just a reality other people. Every action

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Speaker 2: has an equal and opposite reaction. So every action that

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Speaker 2: you take should always be calibrated and done in such

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Speaker 2: a way that we understand exactly what might become in

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Speaker 2: our way. Let's go to the next part here. This

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Speaker 2: is I mean, these next two are something you're not

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Speaker 2: going to hear anywhere else. Friend Ben Smith over at

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Speaker 2: Semaphore doing a deeply reported column revealing some serious problems

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Speaker 2: for free press access inside of Ukraine. Let's put this

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Speaker 2: up there on the screen, inside the high stakes clash

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Speaker 2: for control over Ukraine's story. The top line thing that

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Speaker 2: jumps out to me, Crystal is New York Times reporter

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Speaker 2: Thomas gibbons Neff, who I've actually followed gibbonstph for a

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Speaker 2: long time. I knew him before he even joined the

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Speaker 2: New York Times in the days when we used to

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Speaker 2: cover the Pentagon. He is a former United States Marine

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Speaker 2: who is one of the best reads on combat, the

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Speaker 2: actual reality of combat, that I have ever encountered in

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Speaker 2: almost a decade of reading. You know about these issues

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Speaker 2: in a contemporary manner. Well. He has been banned from

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Speaker 2: Ukraine because he was embedded with the Ukrainian military and

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Speaker 2: drew anger from the government when he correctly reported that

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainians were using banned cluster munitions. The headline that

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Speaker 2: he published at the time was quote to pushback Russians,

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Speaker 2: Ukrainians hit a village with cluster munitions. The New York

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Speaker 2: Times verified Ukraine forces apperitimate buyer at least two of

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Speaker 2: these internationally banned weapons in a neighborhood, putting Ukrainian civilians

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Speaker 2: at extreme risk. This was over a year ago April

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Speaker 2: twentieth of twenty twenty two. Well, guess what, everyone, he

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Speaker 2: had his crevenials revoked as a result of that, and

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Speaker 2: his renewal to go back to Ukraine to tell us

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Speaker 2: all the truth has been denied in multiple separate instances,

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Speaker 2: ultimately only being reissued after they protested significantly. The other

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Speaker 2: was a NBC News broadcast Crystal which is totally nuts,

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Speaker 2: where during this broadcast, a pro Russiani resident of Sevastopol

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Speaker 2: inside of Crimea said, and an anchor inside of it

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Speaker 2: said that her words echoed those of most people that

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Speaker 2: NBC News spoke to in Crimea, AKA, indicating that people

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Speaker 2: who NBC spoke to inside of Crimea while they were

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Speaker 2: embedded there supported Russia. We have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a taste of this just to show you how they

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Speaker 2: handled it fairly, and then we'll tell you what the

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Speaker 2: reaction from the Ukrainians was. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 3: Ukraine's president Zelenski told the West, give us more weapons

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Speaker 3: and we'll get back what's ours. But Crimea, where we

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Speaker 3: saw new signs for air raid shelters, has many pro

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Speaker 3: Russian residents who say it's theirs. Is Crimea Russian or

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Speaker 3: Ukrainian is Russian, of course Russian. Seventy three year old

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Speaker 3: pratt Soviet tells me.

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Speaker 2: Well, that did not sit well with the Ukrainian governments.

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Speaker 2: Listen to this. The Ukrainians revoked NBC's cnterentials and then

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Speaker 2: basically confined them to their local Kiev hotel and would

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Speaker 2: not allow them to leave. Not only that, they still defended.

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Speaker 2: They say that NBC's traveled to Crimea was quote a

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Speaker 2: violation of Ukrainian legislation, and we don't want other Western

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Speaker 2: media companies doing the same. If they want to go

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Speaker 2: to Crimea to report, they can go to Crimea through Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: saying currently it is impossible. So they're trying to tell

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Speaker 2: our journalists how to do their jobs. I didn't even

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Speaker 2: point this out. Whenever you go to Ukraine as a journalist,

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Speaker 2: you have to sign a document saying that you will

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Speaker 2: comply at all times with Ukrainian government policies, which was

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Speaker 2: the grounds in which they can find these people to

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Speaker 2: their hotels. I mean, look, everyone I've seen this, so like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: Britain did this during World War Two against the Nazis.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, okay, I mean also, that doesn't make

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Speaker 2: it right. It's like, it's not a justification to say

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Speaker 2: that an authoritarian approach to free press access is bad.

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Speaker 2: It obviously is terrible. In fact, in the middle of

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Speaker 2: conflict is when we need correct information at any time,

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Speaker 2: at more so even than in neural normal times. And

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Speaker 2: then second, there we are are the ones who are

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Speaker 2: bankrolling this entire conflict. We are the ones who underwrite this,

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Speaker 2: their entire ability to exist as a nation. They would

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Speaker 2: collapse literally without us. So maybe our people have the

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Speaker 2: right to know exactly what the hell is going on

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Speaker 2: inside of Ukraine. And this is exactly why I said

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Speaker 2: it earlier. I was like, hey, guys, don't trust anything

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Speaker 2: that's coming out of there. Every you know, I recently

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Speaker 2: on Max Boot from the Washington Post. He's like, I

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Speaker 2: returned from Kiev. Here's what I saw. This is all propaganda.

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Speaker 2: It's like going to North Korea or something like that

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Speaker 2: and saying, oh, everybody in North Korea I spoke to

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Speaker 2: is happy. It's like, okay, so is that reality?

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Speaker 1: Yep, that's right. And I think we have Americans tend

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Speaker 1: to have a good understanding of the way that press

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Speaker 1: freedom is severely curtailed with regards to Russia, and so

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of very justified skepticism of what's put

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Speaker 1: out from Russian journalists, Russian media outlets, et cetera. That's

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Speaker 1: all filtered through a lens of skepticism. As it should

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Speaker 1: be really important people understand very similar limits on press

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Speaker 1: freedom and tightly controlled access, tightly controlled narrative shaping, and

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Speaker 1: also a lot of retribution if you dare step out

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Speaker 1: of bounds of what the Ukrainians want to present in

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Speaker 1: this coore. So this is just a reminder you really

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Speaker 1: need to take everything that is being reported out of this,

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Speaker 1: whether it's from a Russian outlet, a Ukrainian outlet, or

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Speaker 1: a Western outlet with a million grains of salt, and

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Speaker 1: the incredibly skeptical of the narratives that are being pushed

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Speaker 1: out there. You know, as I was reading this, Zagur,

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Speaker 1: remember that early report that came out talking about where

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Speaker 1: the weapons that we were shipping and where the resource

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Speaker 1: aware sent where that was actually going, raising a lot

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Speaker 1: of concerns about the end of viligage track exactly what's

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Speaker 1: happening here. Good report, interesting report, something that is a

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Speaker 1: vital interest to American people. Who are funding, you know,

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Speaker 1: these shipments of weapons over and over again, and that

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Speaker 1: thing got pulled down and they put on this statement saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, things have changed on the ground and we'll

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Speaker 1: do a different report in future maybe. And you know,

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Speaker 1: that was the last we heard of it. I wonder

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Speaker 1: what the reaction was from those Lenski government. I wonder

432
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 1: what was going on specifically behind the scenes now that

433
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: we know some of these details. But this is the

434
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: reason why all of the narratives that come out about

435
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: this or follow the same very simplistic, very sort of

436
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: disneyfied good versus Evil script. It's because if you even

437
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: dare step out of bounds enough to go to Crimea

438
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: and talk to a few citizens on the ground and

439
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 1: just relay what they say, you get hit, You get smacked,

440
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: and you will never get that access again.

441
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, speaking of Thomas Gibbons snaff, he

442
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: actually wrote a decent story, but I can clearly see

443
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: the heavy hand of the editors. Let's go and put

444
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: it up there on the screen headline Nazi symbols on

445
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: Ukraine's front lines highlight authority issues of history. This, guys,

446
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 2: we're not joking, is literally both siding Nazism. They say

447
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 2: the decision by some Ukrainian soldiers who wear patches with

448
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: Nazi icons threatens to reinforce Russian propaganda used to justify

449
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 2: the invasion. It could also give symbols mainstream life after

450
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: the West decades long efforts to eliminate them, and effectively,

451
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: what they try and do here Crystal is say, yeah,

452
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: there are battalions inside of Ukraine which are basically far

453
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: right Nazis and that, you know, venerate Nazi ideology. Now,

454
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: let's be very clear so that this doesn't get clipped

455
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: in some ridiculous context. Nobody is saying that Zelenski is

456
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: a Nazi, or that the Ukrainian government are Nazis, or

457
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: that the vast majority of the Ukrainian military are Nazis. However,

458
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 2: it is factually correct that there are some people who

459
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: are neo Nazis who are in the Ukrainian military, which

460
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: is used as a pretext by Russia to invade Ukraine.

461
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: That does not make it okay to invade Ukraine, but

462
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: it is just simply a fact that these battalions and

463
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: exist inside of the Ukrainian government. And what they try

464
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: to do in this story is basically say, yeah, it's true,

465
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: there are a couple of uh, you know, militias and

466
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: all these, but it's complicated. You know, they're not technically

467
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 2: real Nazis or you know the actually it's justified Russian propaganda.

468
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it truly is stunning that it's stunning

469
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: that they are trying to both side it and not.

470
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's like, if you're going to report on

471
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: it, it just tell the truth. There are yeah, battalians and

472
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: militia members inside. You can attach the Ukrainian military funded

473
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: by the US government who are Nazis. You can be

474
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: okay with that or not. Many people are okay with that.

475
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: But the problem is is that many people don't even

476
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: know about it.

477
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: That's that's okay. So there's a lot of layers of

478
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: issues with this article. Number one. The issue they point

479
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: to with this isn't that US taxpayers are funding some

480
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: amount of Nazis in Ukraine. That's not their takeaway, which

481
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: seems like a pretty obvious takeaway and something we should

482
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: all be thinking about and concerned about. The leads weighing

483
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: into these decisions. Their takeaway is that the presence of

484
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: these symbols might give Russia a talking point. That's their concern. Okay,

485
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: so that's number one, number two in terms of the

486
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: both sides in Nazism. I loved this line here. Questions

487
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: over how to interpret such symbols are as devices, as

488
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: they are persistent, not just in Ukraine and the American South.

489
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: Some of them insisted that today the Confederate flag symbolizes pride,

490
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: not a history of racism and successions. Let me just

491
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: pause you there. Can you imagine New York Times saying

492
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: that about the Confederate Flag in any other circumstance. Never

493
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: then they go on to say, I love this. The

494
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: swastika was an important Hindu symbol before it was co

495
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: opted by the Nazis.

496
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 2: That's true.

497
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: Now do you think the Ukrainians that are wearing this

498
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: in the Azon battalion are doing it out of respect

499
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: for Hindu peace traditions? Like this is absurd. And by

500
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: the way, the symbology that I'm no expert in like

501
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: Nazi symbology. But what they're using here is like, you know,

502
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: some insignia that was associated was like the worst of

503
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: the Nazis that were guarding concentration camps and stuff, and

504
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: they're trying to wave this away as like, well, maybe

505
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: it's about the Hindu part of Nasi of the swastika,

506
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: not the Nazi parts, like okay, y'all. They also go

507
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: through a long, you know, diatribe about the history of

508
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: the Nazi invasion of Ukraine and and this is factual

509
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: that initially people viewed them as potential liberators because because

510
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: they suffered under you know, some of the totalitarianism in

511
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. But then they had to go ahead

512
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: and throw a line which is also true that they

513
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: then helped the Nazis some Ukrainians and you know, were

514
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: also complicit in atrocities that were created there. It's like,

515
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: what part of this justifies and makes it okay for

516
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: you to be wearing Nazi imagery at this point? What

517
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: part of it separates you from that you know, horrific

518
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 1: tradition history, And so it's really quite an astonishing article

519
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: to reach a mostertality, like they have to acknowledge the

520
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: reality that this is happening in some significant level, but

521
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: the layers of justification cope that they go through to

522
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: make it like, yeah, it's Nazism, but it's really not

523
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: that bad. It's okay, is pretty incredible.

524
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: You know, some Americans just have the most naive view

525
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: of history. This is my immigrant speaking, because it's just

526
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: like they really believe that history began in like nineteen

527
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: ninety one or whatever, whenever Ukraine became a country, as

528
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 2: you just pointed to, Yeah, guess what. And look, I

529
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 2: mean you can somewhat understand it. You know why they

530
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: supported the Nazis when they invaded because they hated Stalin

531
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: and they literally had a famine. It was terrible. So

532
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, intellectually I can get that. Also, it's

533
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: not like they it's not like they love them the

534
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 2: entire time. Basically, after the Nazis started hanging them, then

535
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: they started fighting back against everybody and they wanted independence,

536
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: which is you know, okay, a noble I guess idea.

537
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: But also, yeah, look, there's a deep history of anti

538
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: Semitism and of anti Jewish sentiment in the region well

539
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: predating Nazism. Many American Jews whose families came here came

540
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: in the late nineteen hundred or in the early nineteen

541
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: hundreds after horrific pogroms, specifically in Ukraine and in that region.

542
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: I know many actually families who are descendants of that time.

543
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: None of it is to denigrate the Ukrainian regime or

544
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: say that they currently you know, hold those ideas, only

545
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: to say history is complicated. These areas of the world

546
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: are not, you know, it's not not. The whole world

547
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: is America, and most people in this country are frankly

548
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: so terribly traveled, badly read, or just have like naive

549
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: ideas that they have no idea how the rest of

550
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: how the old world really does conduct itself and thinks

551
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: in terms of generations and not just in terms of

552
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: you know, like whatever what happened last week. It's a

553
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: very American idea, to be honest.

554
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: Well it's also like, okay, so in the beginning, when

555
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: you're starving because of Stalin, you know, you can understand

556
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: reading the Nazis as liberators. Sure, but you are no

557
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: longer starving under the thumb of Stalin. Now you have

558
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: the benefit of history to know what a horror and

559
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: an atrocity this was. So I don't know that that

560
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: original view of what was going on there really justifies

561
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: the continued embrace of Nazi symbols and ideology. So yeah, again,

562
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine New York Times writing many of these

563
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: phrases in any other context and trying to both sides

564
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: Nazism or trying to say, you know, Confederate flag like

565
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: it's complicated, We get it. So it was pretty wild

566
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: to see. And then that the takeaway is it, Hey, guys,

567
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: maybe you know, we should consider the fact that we

568
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: are not arming some number of Nazis. Again, not everybody,

569
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: not even the majority, not the overwhelming, that's nothing like that.

570
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: But some number of Nazis we are arming. That's not

571
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: the takeaway from the article.

572
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: Pretty incredible, absolutely well said.

573
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: So let's get to what is going on with twenty

574
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: twenty four. We'll start with Donald Trump here. So we've

575
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: got some new revelations from a CNN reportedly about what

576
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: is causing a lot of a skepticism of them, making

577
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: it more likely that he is going to be indicted

578
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: with regard to the classified document situation. Let's go ahead

579
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen. This is pretty wild.

580
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: So apparently, as part of the investigation process, the Department

581
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: of Justice had originally subpoened some surveillance footage and you

582
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: know that was turned over and then in October they

583
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: asked for additional surveillance footage. Oh right, at that similar

584
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: time in October, just so happened, the mar A Lago

585
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: pool was drained, it caused a flood into the room

586
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 1: where the surveillance footage happened to be kept, and they

587
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: were then unable to turn over that amount of surveillance

588
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: footage again, according to the CNN report. Furthermore, the maintenance

589
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: worker who was charged with draining the pool that ultimately

590
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: causes the flood is the same person who is seen

591
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: in other videos moving some of the boxes around at

592
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: the time per where they're also being asked to turnover documents,

593
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: and they see on the surveillance cameras that boxes are

594
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: sort of suspiciously being moved around. Furthermore, they also have

595
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: apparently thought or received heard some testibony that the relevant

596
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: IT equipment was not even actually damaged in the flood.

597
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: So they don't come out and say this, but basically

598
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: the allegation is they use this flood to pretend like

599
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: they damage the surveillance footage so they wouldn't have to

600
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: turn it over to the Justice Department. And you know,

601
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: it's part of an alleged cover up in this case.

602
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: So the details here are pretty wild. I mean, it's

603
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: like something out of a movie. Again, this is allegations,

604
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: it's not confirmed, but it gives you some context and

605
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: some background of why they might be moving swiftly here

606
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: towards an indictment.

607
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I also know that the special Counsel,

608
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: Jack Smith, actually met yesterday with Trump's attorneys about nearing

609
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 2: the decision to possibly go ahead and charge him. So so,

610
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's one of those where we

611
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: genuinely have no idea how this is going to play out,

612
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: just because you have the political aspect of play. You

613
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: of course have President Biden, who literally got caught also

614
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: with the classified documents at his residence. Then you also

615
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: have the added you know, wrinkle I guess of Trump,

616
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: the charges they're zeroing in or not possession, but of obstruction.

617
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: Then they have to prove the obstruction in terms of

618
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: his legal team violating the confidentiality with his lawyers, and

619
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: now with the surveillance they say that they have. Now

620
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: I also heard reporting about a tape, you know, in

621
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: which Trump acknowledged that he had classified documents in his

622
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: possession while he's doing a book interview sometime in twenty

623
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: twenty one with Mark meadows, this is about Iran. So anyway,

624
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: I am one of those where this smells so much

625
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: like Mueller to me. But also look on the merits.

626
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: You know, in terms of the leaks that are coming

627
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: out like oh, they met with this and they oh

628
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: the Special Counsel is zeroing in on this. But you know,

629
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: every lawyer and legal expert that we have spoken to

630
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: Crystal just said, look on the merits the obstruction charge.

631
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: You know, this is a disaster for him, just because

632
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: it's one of those where it's really as long as

633
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: they have like a decent amount of evidence to bring

634
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: a charging document against it or charging case against him

635
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: on this, then you know, all they have to prove that,

636
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: all they have to prove to the jury is he

637
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: took an effort to try and obstruct the government from

638
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: obtaining these documents, of which you know, if they have

639
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: a tape, and if they can prevent circumstantial evidence on this,

640
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: then you know, on its merits, this may not be

641
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: that difficult to prove to the jury. The only thing

642
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: that really would save him is the political consideration about

643
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: charging a former president. But also you can see this

644
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: and say that well a former president, you know, he

645
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: was charged in New York, and it's not like it

646
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: all it changed really things all that much politically. In fact,

647
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 2: it only helped Trump. This one might be different because

648
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: of the Biden administration. Of course, I'm not downplaying it.

649
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 2: It's still extraordinary whenever it does happen, but just that

650
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: maybe that influenced our calculus. Really don't know.

651
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if the emerging reports are accurate, you have

652
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: the tape you're referring to, which would undercut his defense

653
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: that basically like, well, I declassified all these documents when

654
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: I was president, so I could do whatever I want

655
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: with them. Allegedly, in this tape he seems to indicate like, hey,

656
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: I got these classified documents and I didn't declassify them,

657
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: So it undercuts that defense of these were all declassified.

658
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: You also have a complicating factor there too, which is

659
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: that the document that he's referring to in that tape

660
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: apparently they have been unable to find and it was

661
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: very sensitive with regard to a potential attack on Iran.

662
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: So there's that piece. Then, in terms of potential obstruction

663
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: and a cover up, you've cut this wild story about

664
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: the pool draining situation flooding the room you know, maybe

665
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: it really was an accident, maybe it wasn't an accident.

666
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: But the when when you add that to the footage

667
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: they have of guys moving boxes around, and potentially even

668
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: Trump himself moving boxes that contain this sensitive material around,

669
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 1: then you start to have a pretty damning set of back.

670
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: So that's the way that that is all shaping up

671
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: at this point in terms of the time and good

672
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen. As you mentioned, Sager,

673
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: some of Trump's attorneys did meet with the Special Counsel

674
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: at the Justice Department on Monday. This was seen as

675
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: very significant because also the grand jury that had been impaneled,

676
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: they had been not been meeting for a month. Now

677
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: they are starting to meet again this week. There is

678
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: some speculation I have no idea whether this is founded

679
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: or not, that potentially that means they're wrapping things up,

680
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: and the fact that the Trump's lawyers are meeting with

681
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice is another indication that they are

682
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: coming close to an indictment. You also have Trump, remember

683
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: before he was indicted in the other case in New York,

684
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: he started raging on truth social and talking about like

685
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to be indicted imminently, etc. He sort of

686
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: started to do that again with regard to this case

687
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: and saying how unfair it is that he would be

688
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: indicted and not Biden or not other presidents, et cetera.

689
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: So I also take that as another potential sign that

690
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: you could be getting close to an indictment here. Now

691
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: in terms of the politics of all of this, with

692
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: regard to the Republican primary, I hate to say it,

693
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: I think is only good for Trump. You've had a

694
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: little bit of a media moment now with Ron de

695
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: Santis launching, You've got a bunch of other presidential contenders

696
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: launching this week, where there's been some focus that's not

697
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: just on Donald Trump in terms of the Republican primary.

698
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: The minute that you get back into another indictment and

699
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: all the details and whatever comes down, whatever that process

700
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: is going to be, then all eyes and all media

701
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: focus is right back on Donald Trump, and in terms

702
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: of a Republican primary electorate, that is only to his benefit.

703
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, chrystol.

704
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: So. At the same time, we have a new contender

705
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty four race, not a Democrat or Republican,

706
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: doctor Cornell West, Progressive activist, someone who was a surrogate

707
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: for Bernie Sanders, someone who I personally deeply respected. Meyer,

708
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: who we've interviewed before, I think multiple times. He is

709
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: announced he is running for president as a People's Party candidate.

710
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to a little bit of his

711
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: announcement video.

712
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 4: In these bleak times, I have decided to run for

713
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 4: truth and justice, which takes the form of running for

714
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 4: President of the United States as a candidate for the

715
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: People's Party. I enter in the quest for truth, I

716
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 4: enter in the quest for justice, and the presidency is

717
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 4: just one vehicle to pursue that truth and justice what

718
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 4: I've been trying to do all of my life. I

719
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 4: come from a tradition where I care about you. I

720
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 4: care about the quality of your life. I care about

721
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 4: whether you have assets to a job with a living wage,

722
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 4: decent housing, women having control over their bodies, health care

723
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 4: for all the escalating, the destruction of the planet, the

724
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 4: destruction of American democracy. Democracy creates disruption, It creates an eruption,

725
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 4: It creates an interruption. Why from below the energies of

726
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 4: everyday people as manifests And I know there are precious

727
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 4: people in your life who you care for. That's why

728
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 4: it's important for you to be involved, important for you

729
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 4: to participate. Not talking about hating anybody. We're talking about loving,

730
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 4: We're talking about affirming, We're talking about empowering those who have.

731
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 5: Been pushed to the margins.

732
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: Because neither political party wants to tell the truth about

733
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 4: Wall Street, about Ukraine, about the Pentagon, about big tech,

734
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 4: neo fascist like brother Trump or Milto's ne liberals like

735
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 4: Brother Biden. Wow, well, I'm so happy to make a

736
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 4: world shaking decision.

737
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?

738
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 4: I know gangsters when I see it, and Gangster's not

739
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 4: a subjective expression, It's an objective condition. Do we have

740
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: what it takes? We shall see. But some of us

741
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 4: are going to go down fighting, go down swinging with

742
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 4: style and a smile, accenting the best in you and

743
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 4: trying to tease out the best in me.

744
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 5: Let's do it together. Wow.

745
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 1: I think it's a great video. Yeah. And doctor West,

746
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he's an incredible force in American public life,

747
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: someone I deeply admire and respect, A brave to truth teller.

748
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone could take that away from him.

749
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: And I just love his energy. He's always brought of

750
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: reaching out to people who may disagree with him, but

751
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: never never compromising his values in any way. However, the

752
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: choice of running in this way with the People's Party

753
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: is it's just confusing to me, you know, if you're

754
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: going to run third party. The Green Party has ballot

755
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: access in almost every state. They obviously were able to

756
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: have an impact in getting more traction in twenty sixteen

757
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: when doctor Jill Stein ran the People's Party from what

758
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: is public of publicly available only has ballot access in

759
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: three states. They've been around since roughly twenty sixteen. Is

760
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: they've never been able to elect a president, so effectively,

761
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: you're signing up for what is really like a write

762
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 1: in campaign. You know, I also have questions about how

763
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 1: much your success you're able to garner as a third

764
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: party candidate, just given the structure of American politics, the

765
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: fact we have first past the post voting, the fact

766
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: we don't have ranked choice voting. So I'm sort of

767
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: confused about what the thinking is tactically here, because if

768
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: you were going to go to the third party route,

769
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: there seem to be other vehicles. And also, frankly, you

770
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: know just sort of tried the let's have an impact

771
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: or a third party run thing in twenty sixteen, so

772
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,439
Speaker 1: you kind of know with a third party like you're

773
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: not gonna win just because of the overall structure of

774
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: American politics. But if your theory of changes, all right,

775
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: this is going to put pressure on Biden the Democrats

776
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: to move more left and represent more of our values.

777
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: Well that was tried in twenty sixteen, and rather than

778
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: putting pressure on them to move left, what it actually

779
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: caused them to do was to further smear and dismiss

780
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: leftists and anyone whoever said even a single kind word

781
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: about doctor Jill Side, to redouble their efforts to crush

782
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: any sort of leftist insurgencies, to smear everyone as like

783
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, Putin's puppets, then fascist sympathizers, et cetera. And

784
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: just as a tactic it wasn't successful. So that's sort

785
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: of my take. I love doctor West, doesn't take anything

786
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: away from my respect for him, but as a tactic,

787
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm quite confused by it.

788
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: It could be he just wants media attention, he wants

789
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: to try and move the race, you know, in that way,

790
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: in that way, I mean, listen, maybe it's It could

791
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: also be a way in order to garner funding for

792
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: the People's Party in order to get them on more

793
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: ballid access, to try and get the initiatives in order

794
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,439
Speaker 2: to you know, set them up for future success. That's

795
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: I think that's, you know, one way to look at it.

796
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: I mean I think that really, you know, in fact,

797
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: that's probably the most likely scenario, which is giving you

798
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: such a well respected figure and is well known media wise,

799
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 2: gaining enough attention both in the media forced to cover

800
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: his run, but also to gain enough money and in volunteers,

801
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: then they could go out and to try and get

802
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: more ballid access so they could become maybe the next

803
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: Green Party in the future, you know, overall. I mean, look,

804
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: I think people often confuse you know, political reality for

805
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: for like a judgment like I have no issues with

806
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: third parties. It's always more I just come down to, like,

807
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: is this a real effort that's actually going to work?

808
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: And that is why, right, I mean, honestly, that's why

809
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: I respect what RFK do you and Marianne are doing

810
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: because they're running is democrats, and especially with RFK, I

811
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: mean RFK Junior is basically running you know, on the

812
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 2: same policy platform as people who were Green for decades

813
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: but he I think correctly intuited that if I run

814
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: as a Democrat, that this forces a genuine contrast with

815
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: Biden Mary Anne doing the exact same thing as well,

816
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: even though though both easily could be third party candidates.

817
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: It almost gives them, I don't want to say legitimacy,

818
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: but it gives them a more contestable ground also, you know,

819
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: the same with many other even Look, I don't think

820
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: Liz Cheney could ever win, but there's a reason she's

821
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: not running third party. She's like, no, I'm a Republican

822
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: because she wants to try and quote take back the

823
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: Republican Party. Again. I don't agree with her. I don't

824
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 2: think she will be successful, but working within the same

825
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: construct gives like a gives a ground to contest on

826
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 2: which the opponent has to fight, whereas unfortunately, in our

827
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: current system, they're able to just write you off, which

828
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: is what most people are going to do, you know

829
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 2: with this, which I don't think is right. You know,

830
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: if he had run as a Democrat. But you know,

831
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: here's the other thing. Maybe he just doesn't believe in

832
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party. Nothing wrong with that, you know, It's okay,

833
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: that's that's yeah.

834
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely that's fine, and I do think there are potential

835
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen levels of third party support, level of interest

836
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: within the American electric. You have a huge number of

837
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: Americans who are disgusted with the idea that they're going

838
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: to have to pick again between Biden and Trump, sentiment

839
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: that I deeply relate to. Right, So there, it's not

840
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: like there's not an opening for people for a third

841
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: party candidate to get some chunk of the vote. Is

842
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: that going to be a winning percentage? No, it's not

843
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: going to be just simply because of the structure of

844
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: American politics. And we've seen the way that this is

845
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: played up. I mean Bernie Sanders, there were problems with

846
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: this campaign. He was you know, was ricked against him.

847
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: He wasn't able to get across the finish line. He

848
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: came out of a lot closer than Jill Stein did,

849
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: for example. So you know, in terms of if you

850
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: actually want to win the state of American politics, the

851
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: structure of the system is such that you have to

852
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: compete in one of the two main parties if you

853
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: want to push Biden to the left. If that's your goal,

854
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: I think we have sort of run the playbook and

855
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: run the experiment before, and there's been more success, not

856
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: that this worked on amazingly, but there's been more success

857
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 1: pressuring him within the context of a Democratic primary, where,

858
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: for example, Joe Biden did not want to cancel any

859
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: student loan dead right, very clear. He would not have

860
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: taken a position in that he wouldn't have felt pressure

861
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: to do any of it in his administration had he

862
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: not been on a stage with Canada's like Bernie Sanders

863
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: that were pushing the issue and forced him to have

864
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: to take that stance. And then you know, once he's

865
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: in office, he's sort of shamed into sticking with the

866
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: very clear commitments that he made. So if your goal

867
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: is not to win but to push him left, I

868
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: think we've also seen more effective tactics. And then I

869
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: also have to say, like I'm not trying to be

870
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: mean here, but the People's Party has been in shambles.

871
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: It's been in disarray, it's been ripe with controversy. Their

872
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: board members have been resigned left and right. There's allegations

873
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: of sexual harassment and self feeling and all the rest

874
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: of it. So it's just again it's hard for me

875
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: to understand what the goal is or what the tactics are.

876
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: And that's disappointing to me because I do have so

877
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: much respect for doctor West. I would love for him

878
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: to have a huge impact on American political discourse and

879
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, the direction of the country, because I do

880
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: think he's such a powerful voice, and it's hard for

881
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: me to see how this maximizes his chances to have

882
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: the greatest impact on American political life.

883
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll turn it around. Who knows, you know, it'd

884
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: be never know, you never know.

885
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ok, let's go Karen for him always.

886
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: Of course, all right, let's go to the next part here,

887
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 2: UFO's I've been dying to get into this one ever

888
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: since the story came out yesterday. I want to really

889
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: spend some time and go through this thing to help

890
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: people understand. So, guys, let's go ahead and put this

891
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. I'm going to break down

892
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 2: I think the most relevant and the most important parts.

893
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: The headline here is the intelligence officials say that the

894
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: US has retrieved craft of non human origin. Now, first

895
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: of all, that is a massive headline, but I also

896
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: want to draw everyone's attention to the byline here, Leslie

897
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 2: Keene and Ralph Blumenthal. Now for those who are not

898
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: as initiated as I am. One of the reasons why

899
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: these two journalists are absolutely unimpeachable on this topic is

900
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: that they were the ones who brought the world the

901
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen New York Times article that actually revealed the

902
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: existence of the UFO program inside of the Pentagon, and

903
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: of course gave us those videos which are now so

904
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: many Americans have seen the go Fast video, the tic

905
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: TAC video, and others, and they really opened up the

906
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: space for respectability and acknowledgment by Pentagon officials and others

907
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: that this is a real phenomenon, and really they ignited

908
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: the congressional interests enough to try and get some information

909
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: about the program. Okay, so that's kind of the starting

910
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: point the headline, and also who these reporters are, and

911
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 2: let's get into the content. So here is what they

912
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: are saying is that a former US intelligence official who

913
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: is now turned whistleblower under the official whistleblower process, is

914
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: giving Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified

915
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: information about deeply covert programs that he says possesses retrieve

916
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: intact and partially intact craft of non human origin. This

917
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: information he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and

918
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 2: he has now filed a complaint through the program alleging

919
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: that he suffered illegal retaliation for the confidential disclosures reported

920
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 2: here in the debrief. This whistleblower, David Grusch, thirty six

921
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 2: years old, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan. He's

922
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: a veteran of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency the National

923
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: Reconnaissance Office. He apparently was one of the people who

924
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: would help compile the Presidential Daily Brief. As I understand,

925
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 2: he was given over seven hours of interviews to Newsmax

926
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: which are airing recently about the documentary that has been

927
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: working with some great UFO researchers who have been long

928
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: in this topic. And I want to sorry NewsNation. I

929
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: apologize NewsNation is too many startup cable things out there.

930
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: Here is what is very important. David grush says that

931
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: the recoveries of partial fragments of craft through and up

932
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 2: to fully intact vehicles have been made for decades through

933
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Furthermore,

934
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: he has told Congress in sworn testimony of the existence

935
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 2: of decades long, quote publicly unknown Cold War for recovered

936
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 2: and exploited physical material, competition with near peer adversary over

937
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 2: years to identify UFO crashes and landings and retrieve the

938
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 2: material for exploitation and reverse engine nearing to garner asymmetric

939
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 2: national defense advantages. Here's the other thing I think everyone

940
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 2: needs to understand. David Grush not only is a patriot,

941
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: not only is somebody who was tasked actually with assignment

942
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 2: to the UFO program to go in to discover all

943
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 2: of these secret programs, which he then says were illegally

944
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: withheld from Congress, which is why he's coming out. That's

945
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: how he got his hands really on some of these

946
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: files and became known to the existence of these seek

947
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 2: apartmentalized black highly secret black programs as they are known

948
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: but crystal. He is testifying to all of this under

949
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: oath he has signed under penalty of perjury, that he

950
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: is telling the truth not only to Congress but to

951
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: all of us through this official whistleblower process. And he

952
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: has felt so strongly about bringing this information to the

953
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 2: light that he has actually left the government, says simply

954
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: so he can bring all of the US public. This information.

955
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: Not only that. Not only that, but what I think

956
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 2: people really need to understand is that not only is

957
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,959
Speaker 2: this being done through the official whistleblower process, but that

958
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: the actual Inspector General, the Intelligence Inspector General to whom

959
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: he submitted his complaint in July of twenty twenty two,

960
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: found his complaint quote credible and urgent in an official

961
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: US government document. So this is not a crank. This

962
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: is somebody who was attached to the program, had knowledge

963
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: of the program. He was actually tasked with going and

964
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: discovering all these secret compartmentalized ones, delivering the reports to

965
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: his authorities, who would then go and give him to Congress.

966
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: He's coming forward because he says that they have been

967
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 2: illegally withheld the existence of these programs. Actually from Congress.

968
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: He submitted these documents through the internal process. The Inspector

969
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: General of the US intelligence community itself finds David Grush

970
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 2: both credible and urgent. And I mean the allegation here

971
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 2: is the most stunning allegation of all the existence of

972
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: craft and the posision of the United States government of

973
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: other foreign governments of craft and parts of craft of

974
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: non human origin. I listened to a breakdown of seven

975
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,479
Speaker 2: hours of the interviews that he gave. Apparently it's also

976
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 2: referred to quote in the plurality non human intelligences, non

977
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: human intelligences in terms of the types of craft that

978
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: are are within the possession of the government. And finally,

979
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 2: you know, the last thing I'll say before I shut

980
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: up and get your reaction is this implicates massive crimes

981
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 2: across the US government. First and foremost, the current head

982
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: of the UFO Task Force just told Congress there is

983
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 2: no existence of craft or program that we know of.

984
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: This says that he's a liar. He actually purjured himself

985
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: before Congress. Second, and then the second which is so

986
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: important also to understand, is Crush is saying that there

987
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 2: has been a decades long crime and also even collusion

988
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: between the US government and aerospace defense companies outside of

989
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: normal processes to cover this up from the US public,

990
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 2: for presidents, from Congress, and now basically you know, for

991
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 2: years and years, and from what I understand, he's alleging

992
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: crimes of such tremendous like weight that many of the people,

993
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: if they're even still alive or you know, if this

994
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 2: ever does fully come to light, they would go to

995
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 2: jail if the actual accountability happens in this process. So,

996
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: I mean, look, in some ways is the most important

997
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: story in the world. Like, this guy's one of the

998
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: most credible people probably in the UFO world to come

999
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 2: forward is David Fraber in the twenty seventeen article and

1000
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: is literally saying that the government has the possession of

1001
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: alien or you know, non human spacecraft.

1002
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: It's incredible, It's absolutely stunning, And just to underscore what

1003
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: you're saying, keep in mind, this man is risking his

1004
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 1: freedom and potentially his life in order to come forward

1005
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: and make these claims through a fish whistle blower processes.

1006
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: So it is a stunning revelation. Let me play the

1007
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: skeptic here for a moment's soccer.

1008
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 2: Sure, So, what he's.

1009
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: Alleging is that there was not only a whole of

1010
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: government within the United States cover up, but there was

1011
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: a global cover up, that there were multiple countries that

1012
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: were competing to obtain these crafts because of obviously like

1013
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: the scientific discoveries and military defense advances that you can

1014
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: make from reverse engineering this type of alien technology. Is

1015
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: it far faest to believe that everybody over all of

1016
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: these many decades kept their mouths shut and that this

1017
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: information never became public previously.

1018
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 2: Listen. I mean that's what everybody always says, and I

1019
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 2: think it's a fair point. But then JFK clearly was

1020
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: killed by somebody. We still don't know who it was,

1021
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: or at least officially. It's been decades, right, you would

1022
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: think it's one of the biggest stories in the world,

1023
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: and yet the official narrative is not out there, only questions.

1024
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 2: Or let's think about some other big ones. I mean

1025
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: the JFK assassination that we had even with the UFOs,

1026
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: I mean Roswell. The government has already admitted that they

1027
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: lied on Roswell and that was you know, nineteen forty seven,

1028
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 2: and yet we still don't know the truth about what

1029
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: happened there. So I think what is Oh, Charlie Manson

1030
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: is another one that we can think of the Manson murders.

1031
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 2: If you read the book Chaos by Tom O'Neil, it

1032
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: is very obvious that this is a CIA US government

1033
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 2: operation gone terribly wrong in which they effectively created Manson

1034
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 2: may have even been connected to Jack Ruby. Well, you know,

1035
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: Tom O'Neil, decades after the crime, is still unable to

1036
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,399
Speaker 2: get these guys to talk, and he comes as close

1037
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: as he possibly can to proving that the official story

1038
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: was complete. But yes, so, on the one hand, you know,

1039
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 2: common sense would say, yeah, you're probably right, but we

1040
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 2: have enough proven examples to show that if you keep

1041
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: the circle small enough and if you really work the system,

1042
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 2: that you could keep enough questions out of the public

1043
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 2: consciousness to make the propaganda flourish. And here's another such

1044
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 2: an important part of the story, Crystal. They brought Leslie

1045
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 2: Keane and Rob Blumenthal. Block brought this story to the

1046
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 2: New York Times, to Politico, to The Hill, to the

1047
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: Washington Post. Every single one of them passed on it.

1048
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: And wow, look read the story. It's rock solid as

1049
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: a story as it's it is unimpeachable. The only reason

1050
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: that the mainstream media and others wouldn't do this is

1051
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: because somebody in the Pentagon threatened to retaliate. Is they

1052
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 2: threatened to say, we're gonna go like, if you run this,

1053
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 2: we're gonna you're gonna burn some of your sources. I mean,

1054
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: they are trying to relegate this to the fringes of

1055
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: the internet, you know, you know, crackpots like me and others,

1056
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: to the ones who we're talking about it because they

1057
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 2: don't want it to enter the public consciousness. There is

1058
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: no question that this is a credible allegation, and yet

1059
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 2: I have not seen a single single in stream of

1060
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 2: journalists take this up. And by the way, I've talked

1061
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 2: to here previously, I was a former Pentagon correspondent. I've

1062
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: sent this to multiple form Pentagon course current Pentagon correspondents,

1063
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: and please please ask them about this. I'm already looking

1064
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 2: into ways like maybe I can, you know, try and

1065
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: you know, try and get some answers as well. I'm

1066
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 2: trying my best, you know, but I'm not within the

1067
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: system as much as I was at some point. Until

1068
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: people start pushing not only their representatives but also the

1069
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: press for answers, They're going to try and squash this

1070
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: as much as they can, because on its face, we

1071
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 2: have a credible allegation here that the current head of

1072
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 2: the UFO program lied to Congress no ifans or butts,

1073
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: and then not only that, but the sworn testimony and

1074
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: all of the documenting evidence about how credible this man

1075
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: is about you have former Army colonels and others from

1076
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: the intel community coming out openly saying that he is unimpeachable.

1077
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: That you can absolutely take into bank. You know, everything

1078
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: he's been saying. He was vetted for over fifteen months

1079
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 2: by these journalists and others who were involved with this.

1080
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 2: So just wow, I mean wow, it really, like I said,

1081
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: if it's true, it's the biggest story of the world.

1082
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean it just see it seems so wild that

1083
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: it's hard to wrap your head around. I mean, just

1084
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: to be candid, what do you think happens next saga? Like,

1085
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: what's the next part in the process, And did he

1086
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: decide to come forward now because it seemed like he

1087
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: may have some actual allies in Congress.

1088
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 2: It's certainly possible. That's something Actually we can speak with

1089
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 2: our next guest, Ryan Graves, about one of the pilots

1090
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 2: who actually has come forward about these not only this

1091
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 2: specific allegation, but just about his own encounters up in

1092
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 2: the air for years while he was in the United

1093
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 2: States Navy. I believe he is coming forward because of

1094
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: people like Christin gillibrand, of Marco Rubio, of Timbert, you know,

1095
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 2: several other members of Congress who are they've had enough,

1096
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: they've had enough of the lies from the intelligence community,

1097
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: and they want to hear the truth and you know this,

1098
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 2: this could give them the ability to get to it now. Personally,

1099
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 2: I do not underestimate the CIA, the US government, or

1100
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 2: these black programs. They didn't keep stuff secret for seventy

1101
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 2: five years by no accident, and so this is only

1102
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: the beginning. I think it could be a tipping point.

1103
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 2: It really could into disclosures and exposure of the future.

1104
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 2: But I don't think that. I don't think that things

1105
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: are going to necessarily change overnight. There's still a lot

1106
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 2: of work that has to be done.

1107
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: Not going to be an easy road.

1108
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 5: Nope.

1109
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: All right, we got a great guest standing by Ryan Graves.

1110
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 2: As I mentioned, let's get to it. Joining us now

1111
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 2: is Ryan Graves. He's the executive director and founder of

1112
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 2: Americans for Safe Aerospace, friend of the show, and he's

1113
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: got a great podcast. He's also a former pilot as well,

1114
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: who's given us some interesting revelations around the UFO phenomenon. Ryan,

1115
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: it's great to have you back on the show. Thanks

1116
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 2: for joining us.

1117
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 7: I'm happy to be here.

1118
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1119
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: Ryan. First and foremost, we just did a whole segment

1120
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 2: here on the show about the latest revelations about the

1121
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: whistleblower who has come forward and says the US government

1122
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 2: is in possession of intact of non human origin. I

1123
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: just want to get your reaction to that as somebody

1124
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 2: who's personally had experiences with the phenomenon.

1125
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, I know how hard it is firsthand coming forward

1126
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 7: and talking about this publicly, both the professional and personal

1127
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 7: risk that I can entail. So I applaud David for

1128
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 7: coming forward and the courage that he's demonstrated. These are

1129
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 7: the exact type of people that Congress was hoping would

1130
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 7: be able to step forward once they passed their legislation

1131
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 7: that would enable the whistleblower protections.

1132
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ryan, you're one of those people who was

1133
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 2: courageous in coming forward. Could you just describe why it

1134
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 2: is so difficult for people like you the pushback that

1135
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 2: you receive internally to coming out and telling Americans the truth.

1136
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 7: Well, I think we're all familiar with it to some degree,

1137
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 7: that stigma that comes with this topic, and once you

1138
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 7: really commit yourself to looking into this and investigating it,

1139
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 7: of course there are potential professional or personal ramifications from them.

1140
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 7: I haven't personally seen those been a positive experience for me,

1141
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 7: but traditionally that has been the experience. Now that we

1142
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 7: have protections in Congress, and now that this has been

1143
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 7: matured as a conversation within media, I expect to see

1144
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 7: more and more people step forward in the near future.

1145
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and so Ryan, this kind of fits with

1146
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: what you're here to talk about today, which is very serendipitous.

1147
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 2: We'd booked you long before about the Americans for Safe Aerospace.

1148
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: What are you trying to do through your experience and

1149
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: through this new organization.

1150
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 7: Exactly so, Americans for Safe Aerospace was found to help

1151
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 7: support people just like David and other aerospace workers that

1152
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 7: are impacted by this. Primarily, we're focusing on building a

1153
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 7: safe place for pilots and other aerospace workers to be

1154
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 7: able to share their experiences to talk about this. We're

1155
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 7: going to leverage those experiences to be able to provide

1156
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 7: general education to the public, but also to Congress as well.

1157
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 7: We want to destigmatize this conversation. We want to lead

1158
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 7: with the credible voices that have come forward, and we've

1159
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 7: put together a great advice board that we're going to

1160
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 7: be able to use to recommend policy legislation and advance

1161
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 7: the growing caucus of UAP support within Congress.

1162
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 2: See. This is why I think it's very important is

1163
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: you're spocusing specifically. Also, what David has been trying to

1164
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 2: do is get Congress to do its job. Can you

1165
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 2: explain this is something I've been trying to do as well,

1166
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: the role that Congress and why it really is one

1167
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 2: of the only organizations here that can, you know, destigmatize, declassify,

1168
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: and make transparent what has been happening within the government.

1169
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: Why can't just a normal person or you know, why

1170
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: can't the press necessarily get its hands on what it

1171
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 2: needs to do here?

1172
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 7: Well, certainly Congress, you know, has the ability, has the

1173
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 7: oversight ability on certain branches, and within the Department of

1174
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 7: Defense that's no different. They have a mandate not only

1175
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 7: to represent us as our representatives, but also to perform

1176
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 7: those oversight roles. And what we're seeing now through the

1177
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 7: National Defense Authorization Act of twenty twenty three and potentially

1178
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 7: with a future legislation in twenty four, we're going to

1179
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 7: see continued oversight of these programs. And that's really at

1180
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 7: the core of what is potentially the wrongdoing here is

1181
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 7: that these programs have been withheld although they were utilizing

1182
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 7: public funds in order to execute they were not being

1183
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 7: properly reported to Congress and thus our representatives, and so

1184
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 7: we're essentially cut out of that conversation.

1185
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Ran, I mean, here's what I really

1186
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 2: want you to be able to speak to is through

1187
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 2: the organization and the general public. What power do we

1188
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: have the listeners of the show, the general public, what

1189
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: do we what role can we play in helping you

1190
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: and helping David and helping so many others trying to

1191
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 2: get information out to back to all of us, because really,

1192
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 2: you know, the government's supposed to belong to us.

1193
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 7: One of the best things you can do right now

1194
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 7: is to join us at safferospace dot org. The more

1195
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 7: members we have, we're going to be able to take

1196
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 7: that message and we're going to be able to speak

1197
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 7: to that on Capitol Hill and show that your constituents

1198
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 7: care about this. This is a winner, This is an

1199
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 7: issue that people care about, and they're going to take

1200
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 7: that message and they're going to be able to continue

1201
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 7: to apply that pressure, continue to apply that oversight with

1202
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 7: the support of their voters. And that's what we want

1203
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 7: to make clear. We want to bridge that gap to

1204
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 7: show that support exists.

1205
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 5: So by just the.

1206
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 7: General public joining, raising your hand and saying you care

1207
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 7: about this topic. That's where you can start.

1208
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: Excellent. Well, we'll have a link to that in description.

1209
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 2: We appreciate so much of the work that you are

1210
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: doing here. It's very you know, it's always an honor

1211
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 2: to talk to you here. Welcome back on the show

1212
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 2: anytime to talk about this issue. And if you ever

1213
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,479
Speaker 2: need help, you know in Washington, d C. I'm here,

1214
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 2: I'm ready, willing and able to appear with you. Let's

1215
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 2: do it, all right, man, thank you so much for

1216
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 2: joining us. We appreciate it, all right, pleasure.

1217
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: So, the SEC has filed thirteen new charges against Finance,

1218
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 1: the largest crypto trading exchange platform in the entire world.

1219
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: This comes on top of charges that had been filed

1220
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: against them with the CFTC. So let's go ahead and

1221
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: break down what we've got here. This is from the

1222
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: SEC announcement. They say they filed thirteen charges against Finance

1223
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: entities and the founder here, Shengpeng Chau, who is known

1224
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: as the z. Charges include operating unregistered exchanges, broker dealers

1225
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: and clearing agencies, misrepresenting trading controls and oversight on the

1226
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: binance dot us platform, and the unregistered offer and sale

1227
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: of securities. I'm going to read a little bit more

1228
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: of this, but just as background, recall that Finance has

1229
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: been presenting themselves as they don't have any US customers,

1230
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 1: they don't appeal to US customers, they did not want

1231
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: to have to deal with the US regulatory regime. They

1232
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: have gone through and CZ specifically has gone through great

1233
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: lengths to make it so that the company is really

1234
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: like headquartered nowhere, so that they can be subject to

1235
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: the laws of effectively no jurisdiction. And so what the

1236
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: US is saying here in part is we see through

1237
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: your game. Clearly you are offering securities. You're violating a

1238
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: whole host of our laws. And it's very clear cut

1239
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: that you know you are doing this and you have

1240
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: knowledge of the way that you are violating our own laws.

1241
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: So let me read you a little bit about some

1242
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: of the charges here saga. They say, through thirteen charges,

1243
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 1: we allege that CZ and Finance entities engage in an

1244
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: extensive web of deception, conflicts of interest, lack of disclosure,

1245
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: and calculated evasion of the law. This is per sec

1246
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: Chair Gary Gensler as alleged CZ and Finance misled investors

1247
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: about their risk controls, and corrupted trading volumes, while actively

1248
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: concealing who was actually operating the platform, the manipulative trading

1249
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: of its affiliated market maker and even ware, and with

1250
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 1: whom investor funds and crypto assets were custody. They attempted

1251
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: to evade US securities laws by announcing sham controls that

1252
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: they disregarded behind the scenes so they could keep high

1253
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: value US customers on their platforms. The public should beware

1254
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: of investing any of their hard earned assets with or

1255
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: on these unlawful platforms. They go on to say, we

1256
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: allege that and the Binance entities not only knew the

1257
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: roles rules of the road, they also consciously chose to

1258
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: evade them and put their customers and investors at risk,

1259
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: all in an effort to maximize their own profits. And

1260
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: just to give you a sense of how raisin this was,

1261
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: some of the messages that were exchanged among finance executives

1262
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 1: make it pretty clear that they knew they were violating

1263
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: the law and they brazenly did it anyway. Go ahead

1264
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: and put this next piece up on the screen. From

1265
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: Matt Stoler, so Binance's chief compliance officer in twenty eighteen

1266
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: said and I quote, we are operating as an effing

1267
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 1: unlicensed security exchange in the USA. Bro so pretty hard

1268
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: to deny that they knew what they were doing, that

1269
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: they knew it was illegal, and that they you know,

1270
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: this has been coming for a while, but some of

1271
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 1: the extent of the charges here soagar are still stunning

1272
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: because it's not just them operating as an effing unlicensed

1273
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: security exchange in the USA, but also lying to investors

1274
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: also pretending that they had these controls in place that

1275
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 1: they didn't really have. And this fits with some of

1276
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: what was revealed in the previous set of charges, where

1277
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 1: they were going so far as to while they're pretending

1278
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: that they don't have US customers on their exchange, they

1279
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:23,919
Speaker 1: were coaching US citizens on how they could evade detection

1280
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 1: as being US citizens so that they could continue doing

1281
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,799
Speaker 1: business on the platform. So, I mean, it all appears

1282
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: to be incredibly brazen.

1283
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 2: That's the real disaster for them because they specifically say

1284
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 2: this is the US tie in that they were working

1285
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: to subvert their own internal controls to allow high net

1286
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 2: worth of Americans and customers to continue to trade on

1287
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: their unregulated international exchange. Their compliance officer has that famous

1288
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 2: quote where they're saying they're working the unlicensed securities exchange

1289
01:09:56,040 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 2: in the US and that they saw their finance as

1290
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 2: a shield to reveal, retard, and resolve law enforcement targets

1291
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 2: and to insulate Binance itself. So some of the internal

1292
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: representations of the company are really coming back to bite them,

1293
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 2: and it really is a real issue because they show

1294
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 2: that between June of twenty eighteen and July twenty twenty one,

1295
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: they earned eleven billion dollars in revenue, almost all of

1296
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 2: which came from transaction fees. They say that since its inception,

1297
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 2: the exchange at first overtly and later furtively worked to

1298
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 2: entice US customers at the explicit direction of the CEO,

1299
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 2: and they also say that Jao himself is the one

1300
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 2: who ordered the creation of these actual the program to

1301
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 2: try and help some of these high networth investors come

1302
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 2: onto the platform. Now, the real issue why all of

1303
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 2: this matters is because it is in conjunction with the

1304
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 2: CFTC also filing similar charges against Binance, saying that they

1305
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 2: had failed to prevent US customers from accessing it, and

1306
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,799
Speaker 2: this can cause a whole host of issues for the company.

1307
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 2: Through the banking system. Because the thing is is that

1308
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 2: you know, of course, uh, you know, Bitcoin and all

1309
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 2: of that operates outside of control. But if you want

1310
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 2: to ever try and convert any of this to cash,

1311
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to touch the banking system. And at

1312
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: least in our current world, the United States has an

1313
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 2: immense amount of reach through the Treasury Department and through

1314
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 2: its sanctions regime, and through its ability to go after

1315
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 2: any banking institution in the world that does business with

1316
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 2: any US institution can try and ban Binance and its

1317
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,719
Speaker 2: financial assets. So at the very least, they are facing

1318
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,839
Speaker 2: a very serious issue here with the with the lawsuit

1319
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: and really, you know, any of their investors and others

1320
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 2: is could you know, create a world where many of

1321
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: them could never like touch US jurisdiction again, which is

1322
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 2: which is insane right to think about?

1323
01:11:54,680 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh absolutely, And Binance is vastly larger than FTX

1324
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: Sambangma Breathe outfit ever was. It's not even close. There

1325
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: are a lot of similarities here in terms of allegations

1326
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: of self dealing. I mean, most clear cut the similarity

1327
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: is the fact that you have this one dude who

1328
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 1: is controlling everything, even as he's pretending pieces of it

1329
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: are independent, he has nothing to do with it. In reality,

1330
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 1: he's making all of the key decisions behind the scenes,

1331
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 1: operating in this extraordinarily lawless manner, like overtly and intentionally lawless,

1332
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 1: trying to make sure that the company is not even

1333
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 1: headquartered anywhere, and that this legal structure is so opaque

1334
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: that they think that we'll protect them from having to

1335
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 1: face any sort of accountability or being held you know, liable,

1336
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: or having any sort of legal regime apply to them.

1337
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: So you have this, you know, lawless, chaotic, one man

1338
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: band kind of a situation. Now there are some differences

1339
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 1: with finance. You don't have the affiliated you know fund

1340
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: the way that you did with FTX and Alameda, but

1341
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 1: there are some sort of you know, commonalities here. And

1342
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 1: it's also interesting the two SBF and CZ were also

1343
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,560
Speaker 1: really rivals. CZ is the one who sort of pushed

1344
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: SBF over the ledge at the very end here, and

1345
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: now his time in the barrel, I guess has arrived.

1346
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: So in terms of the impact on the crypto world,

1347
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's hard to underestimate how massive

1348
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: this is, just given how large this platform was and

1349
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,600
Speaker 1: how integral it was to any sort of crypto transactions

1350
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 1: here or around the world.

1351
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a huge problem. It also has put coinbase

1352
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 2: at risk. From what I have read that they got

1353
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 2: a something called a wells notice from the SEC. They're

1354
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 2: trying to make sure that they are able to stay

1355
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 2: away from it. But overall, almost all of the almost

1356
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 2: all of the reporting that I've been able to look into,

1357
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 2: and financial analysts as well, is that the remedy that

1358
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 2: they could ever come to this would be a huge

1359
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 2: hit to finance because it would forbid binance from any

1360
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 2: offering of trading services, as I said, in the United States,

1361
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 2: and it would make difficult to do business in the

1362
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: US with really anyone unless it was then registered with

1363
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 2: the SEC and followed securities rules, which of course would

1364
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: be a huge problem for them. And this is the

1365
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 2: reason why they were chasing investors and traders here in

1366
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 2: the United States because of the size of our market.

1367
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 2: So overall, it's a major, major problem, and it also reveals,

1368
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 2: you know, the wild West nature of what was going

1369
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 2: on behind the scenes in some of these places, and

1370
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 2: also why post crash, you know, many of them are

1371
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 2: not in the same capitalized position to be operating or

1372
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 2: throwing around the kind of money that they were not

1373
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 2: just that long ago. And then you're really, you know,

1374
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 2: paying that you're really you know, revealing what's going on

1375
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 2: behind the curtains in the middle of the downturn right now.

1376
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: The last thing I'll say about this is that there

1377
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: was a lot of debate after the downfall of SBF

1378
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: about whether we needed new laws and place to deal

1379
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: with the with and you know, it's sort of like

1380
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 1: unique challenges. I think that's still an open question, but

1381
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,959
Speaker 1: cases like this seem to indicate you actually have sufficient

1382
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 1: laws on the books. You just have to actually do

1383
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: the investigation, you have to enforce them. That's been you know,

1384
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,799
Speaker 1: more or less the position of SEC Chair Gary Gensler.

1385
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: You'll also recall dam Pankmin Freed was doing a lot

1386
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: of lobbying to make sure that Crypto didn't fall under

1387
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: the jurisdiction of the SEC because they felt like there

1388
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,600
Speaker 1: would be stricter scrutiny, that they had more resources to

1389
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: actually go after them for the law breaking that they

1390
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: were engaged in. So there was an explicit effort by

1391
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 1: him and others to make sure it wasn't under the

1392
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: jurisdiction of the SEC, and Gary Gensler has been pretty

1393
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 1: forceful in you know, the last year or so in

1394
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 1: trying to bring the hammer down and trying to take

1395
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: control over this space and make the SEC the preeminent

1396
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:51,719
Speaker 1: agency in terms of regulating crypto.

1397
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's a really good point, all right.

1398
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 1: So we also wanted to bring in there an interesting,

1399
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 1: i would say exchange between Senator Tim Scott, who of

1400
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: course is a you know, senate black senator forum South

1401
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: Carolina who is now running for president of the United

1402
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: States on the Republican side, and Sunny Houston and the

1403
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: other latest of the view. But it was mostly Sunny

1404
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 1: Tim Scott verse on the issue of structural racism. We're

1405
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: going to play you the whole thing so you can get,

1406
01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: you know, the flavor of the entire exchange. Take a left.

1407
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 5: You have indicated that you don't believe in systemic racism.

1408
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 5: What is your definition of systemic racism? Let me ask

1409
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 5: answer the question that you've answered asked or does it

1410
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 5: even exist in your mind? Let me answer the question

1411
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 5: this way.

1412
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 6: One of the things that I think about and one

1413
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 6: of the reason why I'm on the show is because

1414
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 6: of the comments that were made frankly on the show

1415
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 6: that the only way for a young African American kid

1416
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 6: to be successful in this country is to be the

1417
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 6: exception and not the role. That is a dangerous, offensive,

1418
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 6: disgusting message to send to our.

1419
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 5: Young people today, that the only way to succeed is

1420
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:51,799
Speaker 5: by being the exception.

1421
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 6: I will tell you that if my life is the exception,

1422
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 6: I can't imagine.

1423
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 5: I can't. But it's not. Actually, here's a fourteen years yes.

1424
01:16:58,360 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 6: So the fact of the matter is We've had an

1425
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 6: Africa American president, African American vice president, We've had two

1426
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 6: African Americans to be secretaries in the state. In my

1427
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 6: home city, the police chief is an African American who's

1428
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 6: now running from mayor.

1429
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 5: The head of the highway patrol for South Client is

1430
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 5: African American.

1431
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 6: In nineteen seventy five, there is about fifteen percent employment

1432
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 6: in the African American community.

1433
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 5: For the first time in the history of the country.

1434
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 6: It's under five percent homelessness folks in our community. Chess

1435
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 6: asked the question, I know I've watched you on the

1436
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 6: show that you like people to be deferential and respectful,

1437
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 6: So I'm going to do the same thing.

1438
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 5: So here's what I'm going to suggest.

1439
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 6: I'm going to suggest the fact of the matter is

1440
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:31,799
Speaker 6: that progress in America is palpable.

1441
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 5: It could be measured in generations.

1442
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 6: I look back at the fact that my grandfather born

1443
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,680
Speaker 6: in nineteen twenty one in Sally, South Carolina, when he

1444
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 6: was on a sidewalk a white person was coming, he

1445
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 6: had to step off and not make eye contact. That

1446
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 6: man believed then with some doubt now in the goodness

1447
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 6: of America because he believed that have faith in God,

1448
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 6: faith in himself, and faith in what the future could hold.

1449
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 5: First, kids would unleash.

1450
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 6: Opportunities in ways that you cannot imagine. Every kid today

1451
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 6: can look just change the stations and see how much

1452
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,959
Speaker 6: progress has been made in this country. ABC, NBC, c BSESBN, CNN,

1453
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 6: Fox News all have African, American and Hispanic hosts. So

1454
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 6: what I'm suggesting is that the yesterday's exception is today's rule,

1455
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 6: and for us to.

1456
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 5: Semessa has met its promise.

1457
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 6: No, of course, the concept of America is that we

1458
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 6: are going to become a more perfect union. But in

1459
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 6: fact the challenges that we faced fifty years ago and

1460
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 6: sixty years ago should not be the same challenges that

1461
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 6: we face today.

1462
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 5: And here's the way that you measured that.

1463
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 6: But my mother was born about ten percent of African

1464
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 6: Americans got a high school degree diploma today is over

1465
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 6: ninety percent.

1466
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 5: When you look at the income.

1467
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 6: When you look at the income success that we had,

1468
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 6: HBCU stat was an HBCUs. That is a good one

1469
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 6: because one of the reasons why I took the funding

1470
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 6: for HBCUs to the highest level in the history of

1471
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 6: the country, and then I helped make it permanent is

1472
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 6: because I believe that education is the closest thing to

1473
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 6: magic in America. So I'm about making sure that our

1474
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 6: kids have as many opportunities to succeed as possible. Is

1475
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 6: one of the reasons why the opportunity to because I

1476
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 6: have to go to bad the more the big real

1477
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna started.

1478
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 5: You can see the success.

1479
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 2: Wow, certainly fun exchange.

1480
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's a lot to say about this. I mean,

1481
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:13,600
Speaker 1: first of all, I think tender Scott's point about you know,

1482
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:15,759
Speaker 1: to the extent there are people out there that deny

1483
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: that there's been any progress made, like that's obviously a

1484
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,840
Speaker 1: ridiculous position. But the thing that frustrates me about this

1485
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: conversation between you know, a black conservative and a sort

1486
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 1: of classic neoliberal is that they're metric of that. The

1487
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: metric they're using here is like how many diverse spaces

1488
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: make it into the elite class? And definitionally, I mean

1489
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:43,040
Speaker 1: he's correct, like he's actually completely wrong about Obviously he

1490
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 1: is an exception, right, Obviously Sunny is an exception. Obviously

1491
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: everybody on the view as an exception. But the problem

1492
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: is that to make it into the elite class, to

1493
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: have a chance at you know, real success in America,

1494
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 1: where you don't feel precarious, you don't feel like you're

1495
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 1: going to fall over the edge at every second, not

1496
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 1: only for Black Americans, but it's proportionally for Black Americans,

1497
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: for everyone, you have to be an exception at this point.

1498
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: And that's the real problem that they should be grappling

1499
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 1: with versus having this debate about like how many black

1500
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: people are on CENA, so there was a black president

1501
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 1: of the United States, Like how many diverse spaces have

1502
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 1: ascended the elite? Well, what about lifting everybody up? What

1503
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: about making sure that we have law underneath everybody? What

1504
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 1: about making sure that we have actual pathways to success

1505
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: that are not limited to this tiny slice of America

1506
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: and everybody else left behind. So that was the part

1507
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 1: that I found really frustrating.

1508
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 2: It's funny, y, Yeah, I'm the same view. I was like, man,

1509
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 2: this is just such a stupid metric of progress. It's

1510
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: like you know, and if anything, it's actually identity politics

1511
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 2: really on votes. And by the way, look, I find

1512
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 2: the story inspirational. I think it's great. That's the story

1513
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 2: I believe in as well. However, and what I see

1514
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 2: if these ladies were smart and they actually had brains,

1515
01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 2: what they would do is be like, well, why do

1516
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 2: you vote against policies? Well, here's the thing with Tim Scott.

1517
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 2: Especially Scott is especially of the Reaganite school of economics,

1518
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 2: which believes in the power of individualism and also goes

1519
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 2: very much against social safety net programs and others. Now, listen,

1520
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 2: I have complicated views on many of those subjects, but

1521
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 2: I'm not ideologically opposed to trying to help vast swats

1522
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 2: of Americans come and come out of come out of poverty.

1523
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 2: Whereas Scott explicitly takes an economic libertarian view of this,

1524
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 2: which you could then say, well, how are you then

1525
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:35,640
Speaker 2: trying to realize and help not only Black Americans, but

1526
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,719
Speaker 2: all Americans achieve the American dreams. So actually the metric

1527
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 2: he's using is one of which is identity politics, identitarians

1528
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 2: themselves embrace. They're just arguing over whether it's quote unquote

1529
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:51,600
Speaker 2: representative enough. The metric of progress cannot be that, you know,

1530
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 2: there are more black people in the higher elite. The

1531
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 2: metric of progress has to be what is the distance

1532
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: between the higher elite, the middle class and the poor,

1533
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 2: and is the floor high enough for everyone? And also,

1534
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 2: as I've said so many times here on the show,

1535
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 2: if you lift the poor, you will do more to

1536
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 2: help black and Hispanic and white Americans without igniting some

1537
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 2: horrific you know, like racial tension and fights against each other.

1538
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 2: This you know, by the way, Black identitarians hate what

1539
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:21,800
Speaker 2: I'm really saying here the most because everybody's always trying

1540
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 2: to play like victimhood, you know, olympics about who apparently

1541
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:27,680
Speaker 2: or whatever has been more oppressed. And that's part of

1542
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 2: why the whole discussion drives me insane, is that it

1543
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 2: misses the boat almost completely about the best ways to

1544
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 2: help poor Americans in America. And look, the thing is

1545
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 2: too with Scott, he does like he believes what he

1546
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 2: believes in. I do genuinely think he seems like a

1547
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 2: nice guy. But unfortunately I almost think that they are

1548
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 2: handing him a layup if they're trying to argue about

1549
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 2: the ability to achieve you know, individual opportunity instead of

1550
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:01,880
Speaker 2: ignoring like this much broader discussion. It's that that was

1551
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 2: with a big yeah failure. The huge failure of it

1552
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 2: to me was the whoop be in Sunny basically saying, no,

1553
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 2: the the view is not black enough, and he's like,

1554
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, it's like.

1555
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 5: What is it?

1556
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 2: What are we talking about here? You know, when you

1557
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 2: reduce things to that just stupid. It misses the point.

1558
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get so. In the same way that I

1559
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: think it's silly and frustrating to deny that there's been

1560
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 1: any progress. It also is irritating to me the view

1561
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,280
Speaker 1: that Scott puts forward of like, you can't be honest

1562
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 1: about the reality of America because you'll discourage kids and

1563
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 1: make them think that they have no chance to succeed. Now,

1564
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 1: these things are intentions, right, You of course want to

1565
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: encourage people. You of course want to motivate them to

1566
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 1: be the best that they can in their lives. But

1567
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:51,680
Speaker 1: you can't use that to cover for, you know, a

1568
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: system that is wildly unjust and that is stacked against them.

1569
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 1: And that's what I you know, object to in a

1570
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,719
Speaker 1: lot of the sort of like conservative leaning like self

1571
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 1: help narrative, it's fine to have that aspirational uh, those

1572
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: aspirational goals to you know, speak to people about how

1573
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: they can better themselves in their own lives. But what

1574
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 1: Scott does and a lot of others in his ideological

1575
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: lane do is they use that as a way of

1576
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 1: completely erasing the entire rest of the conversation. And especially

1577
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 1: when you're a United States Senator and you're in a

1578
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 1: position of power to change some of those structures and

1579
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: make it so that it's more possible if you do

1580
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:33,879
Speaker 1: work on yourself, you might actually have a chance to succeed.

1581
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: Then you're really, you know, failing at the task that

1582
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,719
Speaker 1: should be in front of you. And I've also talked

1583
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:41,640
Speaker 1: to you know, in America we have this kind of

1584
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: uniquely and there's studies that back this that this isn't

1585
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 1: just my opinion, but we have this unique ethos because

1586
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: of the mythology of the American dream, of this idea.

1587
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 1: Anybody can make it. You play hard, you work, but

1588
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 1: you know you play by the rules. You work hard,

1589
01:24:56,080 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: and anybody can succeed that. Then, when people are doing

1590
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: all the right things and they're still not making it.

1591
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,720
Speaker 1: Rather than having an understanding of, well, here are the

1592
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 1: structures in place that you know were not my fault

1593
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: that kept me from succeeding, they turn it inwards. They

1594
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 1: feel shame, they feel depression, and you know, they they

1595
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:19,520
Speaker 1: sort of beat themselves up rather than recognizing those other influences.

1596
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:21,679
Speaker 1: So it really is a double edged sword here. Yes,

1597
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:23,680
Speaker 1: you want to inspire people, Yes you want them to

1598
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:26,879
Speaker 1: have that motivational story, but you don't want to completely

1599
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:31,839
Speaker 1: erase the reality of corporate power, of the union busting,

1600
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:34,280
Speaker 1: of the fact that you know, wages have been stagnant

1601
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: for decades and decades because of intentional government policy that

1602
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: is not your fault. You don't want to just pretend

1603
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: like that doesn't exist, because you know, you're worried about

1604
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,679
Speaker 1: how it might sound, and you just want to focus

1605
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 1: on the individual responsibility part of it.

1606
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 2: Well, when I think whenever, this is why it's complicated.

1607
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 2: What I think that they are trying to get at

1608
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 2: is where an alone I object to, you know, people

1609
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 2: can go read the record. I've been against CRT since

1610
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 2: before it was cool. I just want to say I

1611
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 2: was one of the first people against the sixteen to

1612
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:04,599
Speaker 2: nineteen project and trying to come out against it, and

1613
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:07,640
Speaker 2: it was because I actually think that it leads to

1614
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 2: a nihilistic message in which you lead yourself to believe

1615
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 2: it is impossible to enact government programs that can get

1616
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 2: you out of this because racism, sexism, and all this

1617
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 2: other stuff is so oppressive that it's not possible. And

1618
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 2: it's like, no, wait, hold on a second, that's actually

1619
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 2: not true. That is a historical So there is actually

1620
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:29,639
Speaker 2: a way to use I think the Tim Scott idea

1621
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 2: that it is possible to work yourself out of this.

1622
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 2: And also kind of what you and I are talking about,

1623
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 2: which is the ability of government policy to come together

1624
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 2: to actually give people the floor, the equality opportunity in

1625
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:42,759
Speaker 2: order to move forward and to achieve a better life.

1626
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 2: I actually think there is a better way. And so look,

1627
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 2: obviously it's multifaceted, and you know, you literally debate and

1628
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 2: sit here forever. But I was very frustrated by the

1629
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:52,559
Speaker 2: conversation because I just felt like it was all just

1630
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:55,799
Speaker 2: trading places about. You know, it's like, oh, well, it's

1631
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 2: like when the Nasdaq says you have to have a

1632
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 2: black person on their board or whatever to go public.

1633
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, who gives a shit? Are they doing business

1634
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 2: better or not? Are they paying their employees better or not?

1635
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,679
Speaker 2: I care less who the executives on the boarder directors are.

1636
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 2: You know, It's like that, And there is also no

1637
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 2: evidence by the way that diversity of boards has led

1638
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 2: to better corporate practice. If anything, the diversity movement has

1639
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 2: been the greatest boon in history to Fortune five hundred

1640
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 2: companies because they use it to cover for stock buybacks

1641
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:29,759
Speaker 2: or cutting their employees, or cutting benefits, outsourcing jobs, destroying

1642
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 2: the American dream. Like it's all the smoke screen. People

1643
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 2: just need to wake up to that.

1644
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 1: I think representation has value. I genuinely do. Like I

1645
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:42,760
Speaker 1: think it mattered from a representation standpoint that we had

1646
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 1: Barack Obama as president as one example. But it's like

1647
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 1: so far from the entire picture, and so much of

1648
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 1: our politics is exactly like that exchange between Tim Scott

1649
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: and Sunny houstin where like you're not even equipped to

1650
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 1: rebut what Tim Scott is saying because you're not even

1651
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: looking at these other you know, real challenges and the

1652
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,840
Speaker 1: whole rest of the picture, and so you end up

1653
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: with this very surface level debate about whether there you know,

1654
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,640
Speaker 1: are enough press or class and it doesn't end up

1655
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: really surfing our politics very effectively. I would say, I

1656
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 1: agree with you, all right, Tager, what are looking at?

1657
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:25,840
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things to do is to revisit

1658
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,639
Speaker 2: some of the main characters from the Russia Gate era.

1659
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 2: We all know who they are, seth Abramson, others who

1660
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 2: got filthy rich during and spreading you know, copium to liberals.

1661
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 2: One of the best is Muller, She wrote in account

1662
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 2: on Twitter that probably many of us are sadly familiar

1663
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:46,320
Speaker 2: with from over the years, who's constantly tweeting about how

1664
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 2: Trump is just one second away from it finally all

1665
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:53,680
Speaker 2: closing in on him. Well, a new investigation, actually by

1666
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 2: an anonymous Twitter account Freudian Slip, has revealed the depth

1667
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 2: of some of the most psychotic behavior on the Internet

1668
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 2: that I have seen in quite a long time. So

1669
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

1670
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 2: This is the first tweet of the expos of nearly

1671
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:11,360
Speaker 2: one hundred that he put out there Froudian slip the

1672
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:14,599
Speaker 2: mother she wrote, expose a wild, chaotic ride through Alison

1673
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:17,600
Speaker 2: Gill's narrative world where little is what it seems to be.

1674
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:19,680
Speaker 2: Stay to the end if you want your jaw to

1675
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 2: go and hit the floor. Now he focuses in on

1676
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 2: or maybe or she focuses in on. A couple of

1677
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,599
Speaker 2: claims that Alison Gill, the molo she wrote account actually

1678
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 2: made who runs a popular podcast and really monetized her

1679
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 2: entire brand online as you know, sticking it to Donald Trump.

1680
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:39,600
Speaker 2: First and foremost was that she was a quote disabled

1681
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 2: American fing veteran who had served in the United States

1682
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:47,559
Speaker 2: Navy who was suffering from PTSD from the First Gulf War. Well,

1683
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

1684
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:53,720
Speaker 2: While Allison Gill had constantly claimed to be a nuclear

1685
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 2: engineer from the United States Navy, it turns out she

1686
01:29:57,160 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: actually studied to be a machinist Nate, completed three month

1687
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 2: basic training but didn't even finish the full study program. Furthermore,

1688
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 2: it was revealed that she was a veteran of the

1689
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 2: Gulf War era, not necessarily of the Gulf War, and

1690
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,559
Speaker 2: actually by her own definition of stolen valor that she's

1691
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:19,600
Speaker 2: leveled against others. Well, she certainly flirted right up to

1692
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 2: the line of claiming effectively that she had served in

1693
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,679
Speaker 2: combat when in reality she was somebody who had served

1694
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 2: in the military at that time, and then didn't actually

1695
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 2: finish the job that she had claimed repeatedly online that

1696
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 2: she had engaged in. But second, what I think is

1697
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,200
Speaker 2: also crazy is the level to which she spun a

1698
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 2: persecution narrative, not according to this reporting. Let's put this

1699
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 2: up there, the next one up there on the screen.

1700
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 2: She had claimed repeatedly that she had actually been fired

1701
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 2: from the United States government for her tweets for her podcast.

1702
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 2: And it turns out, though that an internal US government

1703
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 2: investigation found that she wasn't actually fired. She was off

1704
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 2: offered relocation which he had voluntarily rejected, which the form

1705
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 2: right in front of you actually shows. She spun this,

1706
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 2: you know afterwards as a case of some you know,

1707
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 2: employee discrimination, fired allegedly for having PTSD, and even filed

1708
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 2: an equal opportunity complaint. None of these actually came to

1709
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 2: any fruit or revealed that you know, was revealed any

1710
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 2: wrongdoing on the part of the government. And then the

1711
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 2: most bizarre one to me, let's put this up there

1712
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 2: on the screen, was putting and tweeting out photos in

1713
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:39,759
Speaker 2: which she had alleged she had been attacked by her husband,

1714
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 2: who was she accused of, an abuser, a manipulator, or drunk. Well,

1715
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 2: she tweeted out, you know, photos of injuries that happened

1716
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 2: to her. But what actually was revealed from the Freudian

1717
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 2: slip account is that at least some of these photos

1718
01:31:57,560 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 2: appear to have come when she was almost killed in

1719
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 2: a car accident. And really, what this entire thread revealed

1720
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:05,400
Speaker 2: to me, of which you know I looked, you know,

1721
01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 2: she hasn't disputed at least the very concrete claims within

1722
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 2: this she's claiming persecution is the level to which you

1723
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:17,480
Speaker 2: can just put things out online that both become reality

1724
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:21,720
Speaker 2: but can ensnare you in a bunch of different narratives

1725
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 2: all while you are cultivating this persona which you are

1726
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 2: saying is being persecuted for putting out the truth of

1727
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 2: which was all fundamentally not true, not only from her

1728
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 2: personal narrative, but about Russiagate itself. And this person was

1729
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,960
Speaker 2: held up again as a russiagay hero. This is somebody

1730
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:45,719
Speaker 2: who has gained tens of hundreds of thousands of followers

1731
01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:49,759
Speaker 2: on Twitter, who the thread goes into financially profited from

1732
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 2: the persona from the brand online engaged repeatedly with fans

1733
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:56,680
Speaker 2: and led them to believe all of this and conjured

1734
01:32:56,760 --> 01:33:01,679
Speaker 2: up this story of prior service and of a history

1735
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 2: of persecution, which also ended up end up being true

1736
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:08,960
Speaker 2: in terms of their family background. And the bizarre behavior

1737
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 2: that is exhibited here should be a cautionary tale to

1738
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 2: people who fall easily prey to personas that you can

1739
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 2: see on Twitter and others, and to the idea that

1740
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 2: everything that's happening online either stays there doesn't have a

1741
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:25,560
Speaker 2: connection itself to the real world that can't be revealed.

1742
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,519
Speaker 2: And it's one of those where I just found it

1743
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 2: to be so revealing about who some of the central

1744
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 2: characters who found identity in this anti Trump crusade online

1745
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 2: were and how so much of it really does reveal

1746
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 2: like a pathological sickness at the heart of so much

1747
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 2: of what happened at that time and still continues to

1748
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 2: reverberate in our current politics. So that's that's kind of

1749
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 2: the expose. Crystal. I'm not so sure if you were

1750
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:52,760
Speaker 2: able to.

1751
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:55,600
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Cyber's monologue,

1752
01:33:55,640 --> 01:34:01,919
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1753
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:03,599
Speaker 2: Okay, Christal, we're you taking a look up.

1754
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 1: Well, guys, the media has finally started to admit that

1755
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,040
Speaker 1: maybe Biden's age, and not even just his age, but

1756
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 1: his clearly declining abilities are an actual issue for him.

1757
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: And the reason they're doing this, which now, which is

1758
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 1: going to become quite clear in a moment, is because

1759
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:21,879
Speaker 1: you have a massive donor and elite freak ap about

1760
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 1: this state of affairs. So The New York Times wrote

1761
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:25,800
Speaker 1: quite an extraordinary piece here. Let's go ahead and put

1762
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:29,600
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. They talk about the complicated

1763
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:33,920
Speaker 1: reality of being America's oldest president, President Bidens asking voters

1764
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:36,599
Speaker 1: in the White House until age eighty six, renewing attention

1765
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:40,360
Speaker 1: to an issue that poles show trouble most Americans. And

1766
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:42,880
Speaker 1: they've got a bunch of heavy hitters on this article.

1767
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:44,519
Speaker 1: By the way, keep this up on the screen, because

1768
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to read a little bit from this. You know.

1769
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: They mix into this piece a bunch of hero arc

1770
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 1: narratives about our strong and viral leader alongside these anecdotes

1771
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 1: about some real struggles in terms of just understanding like

1772
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 1: the basics of what's going on and recalling certain basic facts.

1773
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:04,040
Speaker 1: So they say, there was the time last winter when

1774
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 1: President Biden was awakened at three am while on a

1775
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:09,040
Speaker 1: trip to Asia and told that a missile instruct Poland,

1776
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:11,640
Speaker 1: touching off a panic that Russia might have expanded the

1777
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine to a NATO ally within hours in

1778
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:17,360
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, mister Biden consulted his top advisors,

1779
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:20,240
Speaker 1: called the President of Poland and the NATO Secretary General,

1780
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:22,880
Speaker 1: and gathered fellow world leaders to deal with the crisis.

1781
01:35:23,160 --> 01:35:25,840
Speaker 1: And then or there was the time a few weeks

1782
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 1: ago when the President was hosting children for take your

1783
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: Child to Work Day and became mixed up as he

1784
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: tried to list his grandchildren. Quote, so let me see,

1785
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:38,640
Speaker 1: I got one in New York, two in Philadelphia or

1786
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:42,520
Speaker 1: is it three? No? Three? Because I got one granddaughter?

1787
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 1: Who is I don't know, you're confusing me. He also

1788
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,280
Speaker 1: drew a blank when asked the last country he had

1789
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,840
Speaker 1: visited and the name of a favorite movie. Put the

1790
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: next screen up here, guys, that has some of the

1791
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:58,600
Speaker 1: details about the way that his staff has limited his appearances,

1792
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 1: has limited his schedule to accommodate the realities of the

1793
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,960
Speaker 1: president today. They say his staff schedules most of his

1794
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:10,400
Speaker 1: public appearances between noon and four noon and four and

1795
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:14,200
Speaker 1: leaves him alone on weekends as much as possible. Aids

1796
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 1: limit exposing the president to news media interviews when he

1797
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:19,920
Speaker 1: could make a politically damaging mistake. For comparison, he's given

1798
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 1: just a fourth of the interviews that Trump did in

1799
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:24,599
Speaker 1: the same period, and a fifth of the interviews that

1800
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 1: mister Obama did in the same period, none at all

1801
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 1: to reporters from a major newspaper. And they say White

1802
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,840
Speaker 1: House officials have not made mister Biden's doctor available for

1803
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:39,639
Speaker 1: questioning as previous presidents have. Now keep in mind, these

1804
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:43,840
Speaker 1: are the limitations that exist today, and he is asking

1805
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:47,559
Speaker 1: to be re elected and would be eighty six years old,

1806
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 1: so quite a number of years down the road from today,

1807
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 1: and you know, you can project into the future. Nobody

1808
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 1: knows for sure what type of limitations may be placed

1809
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 1: on him at that point in time. So this shows

1810
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 1: you how far they already are down the road to

1811
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:05,160
Speaker 1: purtailing any of his activities and even his ability and

1812
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:07,599
Speaker 1: accessibility to the press, which is, you know, a vital

1813
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 1: part of democracy and being able to assess and question

1814
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 1: the president on key issues of the day. There's an

1815
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: interesting piece of this article where they acknowledge that this

1816
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: has become a major concern among donors and among Wall

1817
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 1: Street elites, which is the whole reason that the media

1818
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:26,680
Speaker 1: is really paying it any attention, now whatsoever. One of

1819
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 1: the reporters was actually on MSNBC where he got asked

1820
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:32,600
Speaker 1: about this report. Listen to the framing and listen to

1821
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:35,639
Speaker 1: how he talks about the concerns among those elites are stake.

1822
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:38,800
Speaker 8: Listen take us behind closed doors party leaders, whether it's

1823
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,559
Speaker 8: a Democratic donors, prominent Wall Street Democrats, what are they

1824
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 8: saying privately, How big of a concern is the president's

1825
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 8: age and what the alternative could be.

1826
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:51,600
Speaker 9: Well, it's the concern I hear all the time. I

1827
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 9: don't think I ever speak with any Democrat who doesn't

1828
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:56,640
Speaker 9: raise that issue. Not that we raise it, they raise it,

1829
01:37:56,720 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 9: you know. And I know that there are people in

1830
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 9: the White House and around it who like and this

1831
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 9: is just a creation of the media or the Republicans,

1832
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 9: it's really not. I hear from almost every Democrat. I

1833
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:07,879
Speaker 9: talked to me. You know, there was a dinner recently

1834
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:11,559
Speaker 9: I was I was told about between you know, former

1835
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:14,639
Speaker 9: governors and senators, all of whom are roughly in by

1836
01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 9: the generation, all of whom thought, no, he shouldn't be

1837
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:19,360
Speaker 9: running as too, you know, he's too old at this

1838
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 9: point there, you know, is the Wall Street you know,

1839
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,599
Speaker 9: a major figure we talk who said, every single donor

1840
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 9: for the Democratic Party they speak with, in fact, brings

1841
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:33,719
Speaker 9: this issue up. The White House gets calls from local

1842
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 9: officials asking about the president's health. I mean, he is

1843
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 9: a constant concern among Democrats.

1844
01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 1: So here's a part in the article where they discuss

1845
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:43,519
Speaker 1: exactly this. Put the quotes up on the screen. Here

1846
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 1: they say uneasy about mister brines Ah suffuses Democratic circles.

1847
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:49,720
Speaker 1: When prominent Wall Street Democrat, who like others spoke on

1848
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:52,720
Speaker 1: the condition of anonymity, noted that among party donors it

1849
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:56,320
Speaker 1: was all anyone was talking about at a small dinner

1850
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 1: earlier this year, former Democratic senators and governors, all of

1851
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:03,679
Speaker 1: them in mister Biden's generation. Everyone at the table agreed

1852
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: he was too old to run again. Local leaders often

1853
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:10,800
Speaker 1: call the White House to inquire about his health. So

1854
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,440
Speaker 1: these are the discussions that are going on in elite circles,

1855
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:18,800
Speaker 1: in democratic donor circles behind the scenes, and that's the

1856
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 1: reason why they are now leaking out into the press.

1857
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,360
Speaker 1: And Sager is also the reason why you see this panic.

1858
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 1: The last attempt to, you know, get Jamie Diamond or

1859
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:30,320
Speaker 1: somebody into the race that they feel like could take

1860
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 1: the reins from Joe Biden, but certainly not enough for

1861
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:36,360
Speaker 1: them to allow an actual democratic process to unfold in which.

1862
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:37,879
Speaker 2: We are and if you want to hear my reaction

1863
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:41,600
Speaker 2: to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints

1864
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 2: dot com. Thank you everybody for bearing with us. We

1865
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:50,679
Speaker 2: really appreciate you. We've got aus we're so excited about

1866
01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:53,720
Speaker 2: the new studio. Counterpoints will be here tomorrow. If you

1867
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:55,240
Speaker 2: can help us out with the new studio, and if

1868
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 2: you want to very first look at it breakingpoints dot com,

1869
01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:00,720
Speaker 2: you'll get it substantially earlier than everybodybody else. We're really

1870
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 2: excited to show it to all of you. Otherwise, we'll

1871
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:19,600
Speaker 2: see you all on Thursday.