WEBVTT - Queer & Now (with Aida Rodriguez) 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.640 But you know I'm gonna do that next time. I'm 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:08.039 in a relationship. When I'm having sex with a dude 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.600 and we're listening to Luther, I'm a whisper in his ear. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:15.640 You know, he was singing to a dude. See how 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.239 he reacts, and based on that reaction, then we'll know 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.200 we can move forward. If hey, if he gets soft, 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.280 he's not the guy for you, and you gotta let 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.720 him go. You gotta he's gotta stay hard through that information, 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.680 you know, or maybe that might entact him. And then 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.360 he gets harder and then you're like, hell, yeah, this 0:00:33.479 --> 0:01:03.560 dude's boke. Let's keep going racist. You can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.759 there it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:11.600 to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.400 podcast where we died deep, deep into the pockets of 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.200 black conspiracy theories and we finally worked to prove that 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.399 each one of those bumps on Morgan Freeman's face represents 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.880 another hard crux that allows him to live forever. That's right, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.040 ladies and gentlemen, he has split his soul amongst all 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.280 of them little dots. I've counted him. He's about three 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.760 hundred and seventy eight split souls at this point. And 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:39.759 I don't know what his plan is. Why he would 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:41.800 hide his hard crux is right in the center of 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.080 his face. That is beyond me. But that's what the 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.560 man is doing that I'm I'm not even sure we 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.400 can call him a man anymore. That goddamn old ass 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:55.160 wizard Morgan Freeman is out here just splitting in little 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.320 ass pieces and and covering himself with it. With them, 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.760 I'm your host, Nankston Kerman coming in misbehaving is always hot, 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.360 as as I like to call it. I'm happy to 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.320 be here. It's it's an exciting episode. This is a 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.200 groundbreaking episode, which I'm not even sure my guest is 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.400 aware of, but it's a groundbreaking episode because it's the 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:18.720 first episode, the first ever episode where we are expanding 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.720 the my Mama told Me multiverse. We are moving out 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.359 of just just black shit and moving into communities that 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.760 that also have conspiracy theories, that also know the dangers 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.000 of Whitey and the White Devil. Do you know what 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.799 I mean. We're we're moving into the my Mama told 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.880 Me multiverse, and my guest today is the perfect introduction 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.200 to that multiverse because she's so goddamn funny. She's hilarious. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.160 You've seen her on so many things. She was on 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.120 Day Ready on Netflix. But more importantly, she has a 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.639 brand new special that is out available to you now. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.880 It technically it's not out as we're talking, but it's out, 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.120 motherfucker's by the time you're listening, and you bitches better 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.280 go listening to it. You you better watch it. Fun 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.720 listening to it, you watch it, you lock your eyes 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.640 on it because it's amazing. She's so funny. It's called 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.440 Fighting Words, and it's on HBO Max and you need 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.560 to go watching, and she's great. Please give it up 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:21.360 for my guests. Miss Ida Rodriguez, I've been laughing. First 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.000 of all, I was like, when I heard the theme song, 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.240 I started like grooving, and then I was listening to 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:33.960 the words and I was like, is this Thundercat? Oh, 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.200 we can't afford Thundercat. But we did get my comedian 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.000 friend Nick Chambers to to put some lyrics and music down. 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.800 So I'm honored. I'm honored that Danster our our dumb ship. 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.160 I just want to say one thing, and in the 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:54.040 Latin X Latin a Latino community. We got black ship too, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:04:00.400 because that's right, that's fairy. I do not mean to 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.840 dismiss the blacks of all communities. I know there are 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.320 blacks everywhere, and I only mean to say that we 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.880 are expanding our universe and and and opening up to 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.000 conversations beyond just black shit, if if we so choose, 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.760 got it nice though, nice? Hell? Yeah, you know, we 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:25.680 got conspiracy theories. We also are the descendants of slaves, 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:31.000 so they're yeah. It's it's almost as if white people 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:32.800 did the same trick to all of us and it 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.360 just worked. It just worked differently, not better, not worse, 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.440 just differently on everybody's ship. They did it in different 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:47.040 dialects and languages. You guys got a sexier dialect. I 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.920 think out of the whole thing, we got shitty ass English, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.760 and I I don't know, I would have rather. Yeah, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:58.800 Spanish sounds cooler for slavery. I think, oh my gosh, this, 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.919 you know what, Let's get castle together, let's do this thing. Yeah, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.520 that's that's my goal. I don't know what you came 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.960 here for. If it's not for cancelation, what game are 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.920 we playing? All right, let's dive in because you came 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.760 with a conspiracy theory that I had heard for years 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.680 growing up. I never knew enough to even verify or 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.080 or deny the validity of this conspiracy theory, but I 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.080 feel like it's a classic, a very classic conspiracy theory 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.440 and pop culture in the black community and all sorts 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.360 of communities, I imagine. But you said, my mama told 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:47.479 me Luther van Drass was secretly gay. Man, I heard 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:52.040 that so much. I guess what makes it so such 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.479 a mystery is that you never saw a Luther with 0:05:55.560 --> 0:06:01.200 a partner, right, none. Yeah, And you know, I have 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.920 a theory on a theory when it comes to this, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:12.080 because if Luther wasn't fact gay and his music that 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:19.200 was about love resonated with so many heterosexual people, yea, 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.720 then it would prove what we hear from the LGBTQ 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:32.000 community all the time is that love is love. Yeah, Okay, 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:36.719 I like this. Okay, So what you're suggesting is is 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.480 that Luther being a person living in the closet for 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.760 lack of a better term, is not at all a 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.440 barrier from our ability to accept the love that he's 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.880 offering to the world. That when he sings these songs 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.640 even though he may potentially be singing about a man, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.360 it's still resonates so well with me or any other 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:01.279 heterosexual person that maybe this gender fluidity isn't this foreign, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.360 dangerous theory, but really it's just the way that we've 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:08.120 always been. Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's exactly what 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.640 I'm saying. I just I was like my ex he 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:18.400 dedicated Superstar to me, that was his song for me. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.560 But he he was also a little bit homophobic, and 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.680 that would be like, yo, you feel about yourrible the 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:32.280 same way Luther feels about his boom. Yeah, okay, So 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:37.200 so was he Were you calling it out where you like, yo, hey, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.360 by the way that song you dedicated to me, you 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.000 know that's a that's a gay man that's singing about 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.960 another man when when he when he's singing it, well, yeah, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:50.280 I was like, allegedly, right, so what does that mean? 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.280 And he did? He was? He like, nah, I get 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.680 the funk out. What was his response to this? Then 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.320 he would say, Luther is not gay, he just keeps 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:09.200 his business to himself. I was like, okay, okay, okay, 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:13.120 because that introduces I think a pretty complicated layer to 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.239 all of this, right that that in a lot of ways. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:22.400 Luther sexuality was a very open secret in popular culture, right. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.240 We all, we is a royal we we all sort 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.800 of knew that Luther was gay, but nobody really wanted 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.960 to talk about it. Do you think that's that's a 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:39.480 reflection of homophobia or is that merely wanting the story 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.120 to still be able to exist for whoever we so 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.839 choose to dedicate our music to. You know, he wants 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.920 to be able to keep it so that when he 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.120 dedicates this song to you, it's not quote unquote tainted 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:57.000 by someone else's experience. Well, I mean, everybody's okay when 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.800 the people are allegedly straight, right, So why does it 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.000 matter even if he was openly gay? Why wouldn't matter? 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.319 Right that? In theory, Luther comes out he says, this 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.120 song is that this song, I wrote it about a man. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.640 It shouldn't change the the lyrics, It shouldn't change the 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.400 feeling that comes from this thing. It should just be 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.880 a different intent. Yeah, then we've placed on it. I 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.880 just stopped listening to Frank Ocean. Yeah, I never stopped, right, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.120 And you know when he was saying Gang, I've didn't 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.679 think about you. Yeah, you know, he could have been 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:42.280 thinking about some penis, Yeah, just like me. And honestly 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.800 that probably makes it connect better for you, y'all boasting 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:54.679 about dick. Yeah wow. Okay, So at what point, let's 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.800 let's trace some of the history here for you. At 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.160 what point do you think you be him aware that 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:06.600 Luther Vandross may have allegedly been singing about men rather 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:11.040 than his predominantly female audience. You know, I would think 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.320 that it was when I got older, because the elders 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.000 in my family used to listen to Luther and I 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.680 was a kid, so I don't know. I thought it 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.719 was just a man singing. But when I got older 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.239 and they started sending me the song saying I'm dedicating 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:32.880 this this to you, So I think that that's when 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.720 I was like, hey, man, I've never seen this man 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.760 where the woman or anybody. I'm always seeing him by himself, 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.199 and I'm like, who is he singing too? And then 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.880 when you watched him, you know, Luther used to wear 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:51.520 the best eyeliner because he used to wear it, you 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.320 know though, and the waterline is what we call and 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.960 he got his eyeliner never ran and I'm always as 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.520 a Puerto Rican girl, we we wear eyeliner. You know, 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.120 sixth grade, we started sneaking the eyeliner to go to 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.880 middle school, and and I would always try to find 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.439 the perfect eyeliner I could put on my water line 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.040 that wouldn't wouldn't smear. You wanted that Luther line. I 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:20.040 wanted that Luther line. So I think it was a 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.320 little bit older, like maybe when I became like a teenagers, 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.880 you know, seventeen eight team. And to his credit in 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.280 terms of the the makeup of it all, he was 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:35.440 a very sweaty man, like objectively a a very sweaty person. 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.920 And for him not to have running eyeliner or runnie 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:44.480 makeup is that's that's impressive, absolutely impressive. And you know, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.000 not only if you say he was sweaty his costumes, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.680 remember the sequence tops the shirts, and that's really hot. 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:57.880 It's super hot. So the lights, you know, And and 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.640 then Luther was an actual reually a real singer, so 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.320 it wasn't there was no auto tune or assistance. He 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.160 wasn't singing the tracks. So that's a lot of cardio, 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.280 you know. I'm like, that's a lot of work. His 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.640 diaphragm is being compressed quite a bit to get some 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.320 of them notes that he's sitting out. Yeah, so I 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.439 I mean he was putting in the work. He was sweating, 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.760 and the eyeliner never ran, never ran him and Prince 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.679 never and so as you're growing up, because I do 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.640 think that this is this is an important element to 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.400 this whole like tracking of someone's sexuality in relation to 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:40.040 popular music popular culture. Are you looking at Luther and going, 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.959 this is a person that I guess is a sexual being. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.840 Is lutheror sexty to you as a kid or is 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.720 he just Luther? Like? Where does he live in in 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.360 that whole spectrum? Oh? Man, he was a captain of 0:12:55.520 --> 0:13:00.400 romantic like the captain of love music like it was 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:05.000 just you know, the quintessential love love song like Superstar 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.360 is probably one of the most beautiful songs I've ever 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.720 heard in my life. Yeah, use a song with Gregory 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:16.000 Hines that was there's nothing that, I mean, some of 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.600 the most amazing music that I would say love just 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:25.120 love music. But we did have sex to it, so 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.560 it was wrong. I mean it was sexy music. It 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.720 was sexual music, and yeah, it's I guess I asked 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:36.400 that question because I'm I'm interested in sort of the 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:41.920 ways that sexuality or a person sexuality rather doesn't necessarily 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.959 matter in terms of our enjoyment of like the art 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.679 that they create that in a lot of ways, if 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.680 you look at these people as poets, right, Like I 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.040 didn't need to want to fuck Walt Whitman to be 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.319 able to enjoy the sexuality that came out of Walt 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.520 Whitman's poetry, Like it still has all of the elements 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:07.000 that you need to feel like a sexy, sensual person. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.280 And I think the same might be true for a 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.480 Luther Vandros. Whereas you know, there are artists who they 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.600 exude a sexuality that you do want to press into. 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.200 I think Luther is one of those that, like, you 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.200 don't you don't want to fuck Luther, but you kind 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.160 of enjoy the sex he's able to create with with 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.240 his music. Absolutely, it's a beautiful soundtrack. And you know 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.120 that's the thing that people who belong to the lgbt 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.480 q I A plus community Hell yeah, hit autum no, no, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.160 you know what I'm saying. The reason that they probably 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.840 feel like we objectify them, We absorb whatever they can 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.200 give us, so long as they remain silent about who 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.880 they are in terms in that aspect, and I think 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.560 that's kind of shitty because, yeah, Kim Kardashian is always 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.240 exuding her sexuality all over the place and people enjoy that, 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.560 and she's rich, rich, rich off of it. So why 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.960 can't Luke to talk about you know, That's why I 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.240 respect Frank Osan, because Frank Osan flipped it. Frank Osen 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.160 was like, I'm a thing about what I want to sing. 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.520 I'm about to tell y'all how much I like, yeah, 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.400 and you can rock with it or you can leave 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.680 it alone. And I respect that. I'm like, why why 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.120 aren't you able? We got We've been hearing these these 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.080 other stories forever. Why not them again? Even more to 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.120 that point, Frank did it at a time where it 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:34.560 wasn't a convenient choice, right that, Like, I think Frank's 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.200 you know, Frank probably came out if I'm remembering correctly, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.880 twenty fourteen, even it might have been that around that 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.000 time with with Channel Orange and or at least preceding 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.720 Channel orangin part of that it's his first album. He 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:54.600 doesn't there's no this isn't a guaranteed like great response 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.200 from the internet and from the communities that are receiving 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.920 this he could have easily been put in a bucket 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.160 that that ruins his career, but he's like, nah, this 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.320 is who I am. I want y'all to know who 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.600 I'm singing about and what these words actually mean, or 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.920 at least some of what it means. And I'm not 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.200 gonna like hide behind the facade of sort of like 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:19.600 veiled general sex syenus in in order to get that across. 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.040 I love Frank Ocean that that mixtape that he made 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.920 before the album is probably one of the best pieces 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.760 of musical art that I've heard. I mean, I I 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.640 love I love Frank Ocean. Everything that he does that 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:38.000 Channel Orange album is epic, and you know, just to 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.360 hear someone just being true and I think, you know, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.520 Frank Ocean is younger than I am, and to he 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:49.320 to see someone at that age teaching somebody older and 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.400 I would say people older than me because I grew 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.480 up around people that were fluid and people that were queer. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.640 But it's dope. I love it, and I'm somewhere just 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.880 goes it down. If I don't get it. People who 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.720 get so bothered by this stuff, like go somewhere. This 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:12.479 is not an invitation that sit down Yeah, don't make 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:16.000 it weird. Just enjoy the thing or or move elsewhere. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.640 But you don't. You don't have to make this your 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:27.920 ship either. Luther sweated so that Frank Ocean could perspire there. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:29.840 It is. We got to put that on a T 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:35.879 shirt somewhere. Okay, let me ask you this, because I 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.919 do think this is an interesting element to it. Right, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.920 You're introducing this Frank Ocean conversation, which I think is 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.160 really important, of him making the choice to come out 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.480 be public with his sexuality in a way that we 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.400 haven't seen from a lot of artists, certainly not at 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:55.240 that point in American history. What do you then think 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.760 is the root cause of Luther not feeling that same 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.080 safety to do what Frank did, or at least even 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.879 remotely introduced the idea that he might be not a 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:13.240 heteronormative man performing in front of you know, women who 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.560 were swooning for him. I think it's generational, Like I think, 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.560 I don't think Frank Ocean felt safe at all. I 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.280 think Frank Ocean took a chance and and knew you know, 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.800 the toxic masculinity has been around forever. I mean, it's 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.080 connected to everything that has been a problem for all 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:34.480 people on the planet. But I think that Luther was 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.840 probably more engulfed in a generation of people that were 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.960 religious because Luther did a lot of you know, a 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.399 lot of music that you know, he he sang, you know, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.960 could sing a gospel song just as much as a 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.800 love song. And I think that it was generational. It 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.800 was a lot of religious connection to a lot of 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.280 singers from that era who who initially started in the church. 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.480 I think there was a lot of that. And I 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.960 do think that the social consequences for being gay during 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.840 a time when AIDS became popular and people were hearing 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.119 a lot about AIDS was probably something that would deter 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:17.560 somebody from saying they were gay because the identifying I mean, yeah, 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:22.400 people would associate being queer with being with AIDS at 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.960 that time, a gay disease is what they used to 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.679 call it. And I think people would be like, no, 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.439 I'm gonna just I'm gonna just roll with this, you know, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.000 I'm gonna just not say anything. I can't imagine. I 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.119 can't imagine how hard it must have been at that time. Yeah, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.920 I think that's a super fair point, and it it 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.239 makes me think about we we've done episodes on like 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.560 Easy E and and even we've talked a bunch on 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:55.000 this show about Magic Johnson and just how quickly during 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:59.080 the periods that they were sort of their HIV positive 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.520 a they get AIDS, whatever it is for them, and 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:07.320 how quickly it turns into a conversation accusing them of 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.040 being homosexual, accusing them of sort of having like these 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:15.920 sordid affairs with men simply because it is a quote 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.440 unquote gay disease at that period, at that point in time, 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.320 we're calling it something that it isn't. It doesn't need 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.240 to be, and it it isn't. But that's that's what 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.600 the world is. And so to your point, Luther may 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.960 be making a choice to sort of like push against 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:37.280 that connection by simply keeping his business to himself. And 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.200 especially in the hip hop community, I can't even imagine, 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.520 you know, like look at the stuff that Little Nozex 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:49.760 goes through ine and lons X pushes back and leans 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.640 into it. But I mean, people are really bothered by 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.080 I don't, Like I said, I don't know for the 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.640 life of me why people care so much about other 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:05.240 people sexuality, sexual preferences and identities. I don't I don't 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.600 for me. You could tell me and I identify as 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.040 elemental P and that's what I want you to call me. 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.399 I'll be like a elemental like crab nets, because let's go. 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.199 I just don't. I'm just saying why people got so 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.880 preoccupied with other people's business like that. Yeah, I do 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.600 think to some extent I feel weird about this, not 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:30.920 because I I disagree with you at all. I think 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.159 you're absolutely right we should just mind our business. But 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.159 I'm nosey as funk. I do want to know what 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.720 people who people are working and how they're doing it, 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.560 but not because either version of it grosses me out 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:43.680 or any version of it grosses me out, but more 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:45.960 because I want to copy you know what I mean, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.040 Like I'm trying to do something weird with my wife 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.919 and see what she's into, and like let me know. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.760 In part of I think to your point, if we 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.760 spent more time allowing people to just voice exactly who 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.560 they are in a public way, we all become more 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.080 liberal and comfortable in our own bodies, that we all 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.919 can suddenly that our expectations shift and now it's not 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.879 this scary, dangerous thing that a man presses into another 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.800 man it's just like, oh, that's what y'all do. I'm 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.240 gonna try that out but in my way and see 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.960 if that makes me feel more whole as a person. 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:27.280 Yeah absolutely, if also it'll it just listen. I think 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.960 that the people who continue to be afraid of the 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.200 that's what it is is underneath of it. Underneath it, 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.760 it's fear, because if you don't agree with the lifestyle, 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.600 you know, like my example, my goal to example, I 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:45.200 don't really like country music like that. I don't ever 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:47.320 go to Garth Brooks page and be like yo, yo, 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.639 shot is trash like I never you know what I'm saying, 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.880 never do this is not my thing. I just don't 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.119 listen to country music. And I think that it is 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:00.359 this very interesting to me how people feel the need 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.120 to police others. And it has something to do with you, 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:06.720 because the only things that I react to react to 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.120 like that where there where you feel a visceral reaction 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:13.520 for me, or it's something that it's it pokes at 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:16.840 something that I'm feeling within myself. Sure you know what 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.760 I'm saying. So lesbians can be around me having an 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:24.800 orgy and I'm not gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:29.480 beat everybody with a belt. This is wrong. I just 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.280 be like, I'm I'm gonna go outside because y'all might 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.920 get something on me, and I'm gonna I like this shirt. 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.000 You know, I'm not at where I need pussy juice 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:43.480 flying on my good show. Yeah, I'll walk away, But 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.439 but do your vot you know, can videotape it, but 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.359 I'm not, you know, I just I just don't understand 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.399 why it's it's such a big deal. And I do 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.840 believe that because of those things, it's probably why someone 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.879 like Luther who made so much money on love music 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.320 that he was also protecting his bag. You know what 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:07.679 I'm saying, like so many people, I mean, I everybody 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.439 that I know when they list like top ten love songs, 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:13.200 they always got to loop the song on the Yeah. 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:16.639 I even even as you're saying it, I'm thinking of 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.000 top ten, like top tens in my head and like 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.960 immediately here and now boom, that's right, it's up there, 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:24.600 you know what I mean. I can't think of many 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.960 that are above that. And I think you made the 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:30.359 point earlier and that we should cover this before we 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.400 run off the break. But I think it's also important 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:36.520 you talked about safety. You talked about sort of like this, 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.919 this question of whether or not people feel safe or 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:42.800 afraid or whatever it is. And I think part of 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:46.199 the way that they take advantage of this, this fear 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:51.120 and this safety is by conflating those things with religion. Right, 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:54.280 So you make it so that if you are not 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.560 following this set of rules, this this traditional set of norms, 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:02.159 you are not only safe for your lifestyle, but you 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.800 are unsafe for your eternal soul. And so all these 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.720 people start to hate the idea of Luther v. Andrew's 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.119 coming out and being his free of self because it 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:16.040 could potentially damn their eternal soul. And that's a pretty 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:19.080 fucked up weight to put on both ends of things, 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:21.840 that both the people that are hating and the person 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.359 that is hated. Yeah, but you know, you know, and 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:26.680