WEBVTT - Zac Blair and Jon Cavalier 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:04.960 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.000 And when I find my ball in a bright egg 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.920 Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Friday bride egg, Lie, 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:40.680 I'm about ready to run off the golf course. All right. Back, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.680 by popular demand, we have a couple of our most 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:48.520 popular guests, PGA tour player Zach Blair and lawyer by day, 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:54.800 phenomenal golf photographer by hobby John Cavalier, you may know 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.000 him as links Gems. Gentlemen, Welcome back. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.560 Hey guys doing thanks, thanks so much. And I feel 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.200 like I should be getting strokes just just by talking 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:06.920 to you guys here. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.680 I need some some strokes. If we ever played from 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.920 Zach for sure, you know, especially coming out of winter. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:17.720 Well, we got to get out somewhere this year. 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.959 Yeah, well, you know, there's so many options. We'll get 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.400 into all the options here and shortly, I'm sure. So 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:30.400 tonight we're gonna do things a little different. You know, 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.080 We're just gonna ask questions and let these two guys talk. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.920 Considering they've you know, they're playing all over the place 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.960 and uh, you know they've they've played everywhere. I'm just 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:47.200 a novice in this threesome here. So both of you, Well, 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.760 Zach you're right out there in the Monterey Peninsula right now, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:55.440 and John you went out there recently. So you know, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.240 let's just cut to the chase and talk about Cyprus. 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.680 You know, Zach, you played there on Monday. Why don't 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.200 you give us a lowdown about how it was. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.079 Yeah, I mean, you know it is. You hear it 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.160 all the time about how great it is, and you 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.959 know how spectacular that place is, and you know, it 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.320 kind of lives up to its reputation every time you 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.440 get out there. It's, you know, pretty breathtaking. It's a 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.320 really fun golf course. That's the best way I can 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:30.880 describe it. It's extremely fun, and it's sporty and you got, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.120 you know, got a bunch of wedges in there, and 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.160 you can get to a couple of the par five 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.720 and a bunch of really good part of threes, and 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.720 you know, it's just really enjoyable. It gets more fun 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.760 each time you go out there. I've been lucky enough 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.200 to play it a few times, so it's a it's 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:46.960 always a treat. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.720 John, you were out there last month, it looked like, 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.160 you know from from the photos, you had an awesome 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.720 day out there. Yeah. 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:59.799 I'm not sure if I played the same course or 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.960 not that Zach played, because I don't remember reaching any 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.239 of the par fives in two or having a bunch 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.200 of wedges in. But I did play a course called 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.480 Cypress Point while I was out there, and I will 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.160 echo what Zach said. It's an amazing golf course. It's 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:20.160 an amazing place, and it's one of those courses that 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.680 it's just packed full of amazing moments. You know, like golf, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.919 we chase these courses and there are certain courses in 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.000 certain places where you have these these moments like seeing 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.000 the alps hole at National Golf Links for the first time, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.280 or seeing the clubhouse and then the ninth and eighteenth 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.960 greens at Shinnecock or the ninth at Yale, where you 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.760 just you get this indelible memory. And it's Cyprus. The 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.600 thing that struck me the most was that it's just 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.160 end to end, wall to wall amazing moments. It's just 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.880 an incredible place to have a golf course. It lived 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.920 up to every bit of hype and expectation that I had. 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.720 And then from just an amazing place. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:11.880 So you know, everybody's seeing the pictures. I've looked at 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:17.000 them for countless hours. I'm curious, since both of you've 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.839 been out of there multiple times, what's the best part 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.920 of the Cypress experience that nobody knows about. 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:32.000 I mean, I just you know, you always hear about fifteen, sixteen, 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.040 seventeen and how amazing those holes are. And you know, 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:40.000 those holes are amazing, they're unbelievable, but every other hole 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.200 on that golf course is pretty unbelievable as well. So 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.960 it kind of you know, those holes one through fourteen 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.520 and they get overshadowed a little bit by by those 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.000 ocean holes. But I mean, every hole on that course 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.640 is so fun and entertaining, and you know, you got 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.760 so many different shots and they you have to play 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.440 and different looks, kind of going through the dunes and 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.680 into the trees and then out of the trees into 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.160 the dunes, and then you finally do get to those 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.200 ocean holls. It's just like it's amazing, but no one 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.440 ever talks about any of those other holes, and they're 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:16.120 pretty awesome. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.520 Yeah, I could not agree with you more. I was 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.279 absolutely blown away with how good the quote other holes 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.120 on the golf course are I Just like Zach said, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.600 you hear about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. Occasionally you hear some 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.840 negative comments about eighteen, but you don't hear much about 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:42.200 anything else. And somebody told me, who I talked to 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.120 before I went out there, that when they had played it, 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.080 the rest of the course is so good that they 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.960 actually sort of forgot about the other holes. And when 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.000 I was there, I found myself in the exact same boat. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.679 It's just so overwhelmingly stunning, and the quality of golf 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.520 is just so good from the very first shot of 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.360 the day that it's really hard to look ahead to 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.800 anything beyond what's right in front of you. I mean, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.760 bottom line, you get holes like eight nine to two 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:16.000 short par fours, the thirteenth hole with the green backstop 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.800 by the bunkers, right next to the ocean. These are 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:23.080 holes that are top fifty in the world, and no 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.880 one ever talks about them. And it's understandable, because fifteen 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.760 through seventeen really are other worldly. I mean, they are 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.080 as good as it can possibly get in the world 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.000 of golf. But I was just stunned by how good 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.159 the rest of the course was it's incredible. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:39.760 It's interesting. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.039 Yeah, I mean, oh no, go ahead. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.280 So I'm curious with you guys both being McDonald and 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.200 Rainer fans, And obviously the Rainer head routed the course 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.520 and then he passed away and mackenzie kind of took 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.320 over the project. How do you guys think the course 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:03.800 would be? Head Ray been there and used template hole 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:04.839 golf into the course. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.200 Yeah, I mean I've actually been. You know, I've talked 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.800 about that before and it's hard to say that it 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.560 would have been better than it is, but I you know, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.440 I argue that I don't think it would have been 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.480 any worse because I mean, that piece of property, with 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.559 how spectacular it is, you see what you know Rainer 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.000 was able to do over at Fisher's Island. I mean, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.680 I think it would have been really good. But obviously, 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.000 you know McKenzie with how magical he was with doing 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.120 his bunkers and everything like that, it fit awesome out there. 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.160 But I mean, I think it would have been really 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.480 special if Rainer was able to do it. But you know, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.640 there's no knocking the way it is now. 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.600 Yeah, you'll never get me to admit that that Rainer 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:56.600 would not have been able to do as good of 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.280 a job as any other architect who had given a 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.640 piece of property. As you guys both know, I. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.680 Think I'm just a Rainer fan to the extreme, so 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:06.160 to speak. 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.880 It's very interesting to think about the piece of property 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.480 that Cyprus sits on and where certain templates would go. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.280 When I was standing on the eighth t at Cyprus, 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.200 I found myself thinking that this would be a neat 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.080 spot to build, sort of an outs punch bowl type 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.000 of a whole if you extended it. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.600 There are a lot of neat possibilities in that regard. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.120 I've also played a lot more mc Rainer courses than 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.839 mackenzie courses, and from sort of just now getting into 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.839 the bigger parts of Mackenzie's body of work, but I 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.199 will say that Mackenzie's style suits that location about as 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.760 good as any style could suit the location. I mean 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.720 the way he does his bunkering, the way he routed 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.280 the golf or I guess Rayner routed most of the 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.520 golf course, but the way he took advantage of that routing, 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.040 the way he sort of ignored the usual way of 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.760 spacing the the part three's and the part five's out 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.760 I thought he did an incredible job. I do think though, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.800 that Rayner would have done a as incredible of a 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.200 job as as mckimsee did. I'll never admit that Rayner 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.120 would be outdone by somebody else. I'm just too big 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:17.439 a fan. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.640 Interesting. So, you guys have both played a ton in 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:29.240 the northern California area, and I'm curious to hear you 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.200 know there's a dearth of great golf out there. How 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.520 you'd rank the courses, say, if you had to go 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:39.000 one through five on the Peninsula and including San Francisco. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:48.319 Well, I've never played San Francisco Golf Club, unfortunately, but 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.439 you know I've I've heard it's great. But of the 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.480 you know, of the courses, and so are we talking 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:03.560 like Cyprus, Pebble, Monterey Peninsula, Spyglass and San Francisco Golf Club. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.720 Yeah, you could go San Francisco Golf Club, Cal Club, 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:14.720 Olympic Club, Pasa Tiempo. All those are in play. Man. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.160 I haven't played enough in San Francisco to really dive 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.679 into that, you know, and I haven't even been out 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.160 to Pasa Tampo. But I mean, as far you know, 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.800 I've played, I've played a lot out as far as 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.760 the ones on the Peninsula go. I mean, I give Cyprus, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.160 you know, the head over heels favorite for me, and 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.240 then two would probably be Pebble Beach. I wish it 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.360 had a little bit more of a rugged look to 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.920 it like Cypress has. I think it's a little too 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.360 cleaned up and everything like that. But then the next 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.360 for me would be the Shor's Course at Monterey Peninsula. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.679 I think that's one of the most unbelievable golf courses 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.600 that no one ever talks about. You never hear anybody 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.520 mention that place, and it's like one of the most 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:10.720 visually most amazing places that I've ever played. You get 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.520 so many of those holes right on the water that 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.920 would be right up there with Pebble for me, and 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:16.400 then Spyglasses. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.880 So we're in large agreements, Zacha. For me, Cyprus is 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.160 by far and away the clear number one, and Pebble 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.439 is by far and away the clear number two, despite 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.560 a few flaws that I think you and I would 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.720 both agree could be cleaned up, although acknowledging that Pebble 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.040 as a public resort course has some limitations that it 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.600 has to sort of adhere to given its business model. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.920 Three for me would be San Francisco Golf Club, which 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.520 is an incredible pilling half the golf course, which you 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.199 really have to see to believe, Zach, You've got to 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:57.319 get out there. You will absolutely adore it. For this 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.319 is where it gets a little tough for me. For 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.000 if I can sort of group them together, he'd be 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:07.520 talking Monterey Peninsula. For me, I believe I would have 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:12.040 a hard time deciding between Dunes and Sure. I love Strands. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.400 The short course is unbelievable. The Dunes course really pleasantly 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.559 surprised me, and we can talk about that in detail 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.880 if you want to, Andy, But for the five spot, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.599 for me, it would be a really difficult call to 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.800 make between Cal Club and Postimpo. I really like both 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:31.600 of them. If you put a gun to my head, 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.480 I'd go with Cal Club, but it's really close. I 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.160 really liked both of those golf closes that happily play 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.200 at any time. There's just a lot of good golf 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.440 between San Francisco and Monterey. And Metal Club is another 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.439 one that I'd consider to be just as just as 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.240 worthy as those two. So I guess I gave you 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:51.240 seven instead. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.040 Of five, But that would be my Listy Metal Club Sawston. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.520 So yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:05.520 about MPCC, which Alan ship Nutt called this week the 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.160 best thirty six holes of golf in America, best thirty 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.679 six hole golf club in America. So love to hear 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.840 what you guys think and of that statement and kind 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.080 of how it would stack up with wing Foot, Baltus Rawl, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:22.640 you know another ones that you've played. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.719 Yeah, I'll go ahead, go ahead. I'm sorry, Zach. I 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.439 don't mean to step on your toes there. I will 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:36.200 say this, I liked it better than Wingfoot and Baltus Raw. 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:39.559 The scenery probably has a lot to do with that, 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:44.320 and again, given that I am the the rank hack 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.120 of the group we have tonight, it also probably has 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.800 a little bit to do with difficulty. I mean, I 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.839 found dunes in Shore to be much more playable to 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.720 some extent in Wingfoot, but to a far extent Baltus Raw, 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.439 which just crushes me. And I do know that it 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.480 is sort of the goal of the club to be 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.319 recognized in that group being of the best thirty six 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.160 hole courses in the world, and I certainly think they're 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.679 on the right path. I mean, the Dunes Course, and 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.040 after Zach gives us the impression, I'll tell you what 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:16.319 I thought of the Dunes. 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:16.160 But. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.440 The two courses just they're incredibly beautiful. They mesh so 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.120 well together. It doesn't feel crowded or cramped at all. 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.120 The property is spectacular and just the ambiance of playing 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:34.400 so many holes with the Pacific Ocean in view is 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.600 an experience that you're just not going to be able 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.360 to duplicate that other clubs around the country. It's just 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.480 it's really a one of a kind experience for a 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:43.440 thirty six hole club. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.280 Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.120 haven't been able to play the Dunes course yet, but 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:57.560 I've played with the Jackson con guys that you know, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.560 we're a major part in doing that out there. I 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.640 was able to to play with them at Scottsdale National 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.680 last week and talked to them a lot about it, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.760 you know, went and walked around, uh yesterday and today 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.080 saw the place, and I mean visually, it's unbelievable, and 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:17.240 I mean just just from the views. I mean, I 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.760 don't know how you could beat that with any other 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.120 thirty six hole course that that that I know about. 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.280 In America. But uh, I mean, like I'm a huge 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:32.040 fan of the Shores course. So if it's anything like 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:36.360 the Shores course as far as playability and fun, I mean, 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.800 that kind of takes the cake for me, because you know, 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.760 Wingfoot is great and Balta Straw they're great, but they're 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.800 you know, they're championship major type tracks and venues. You know, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.160 they're ballbusters. They're gonna you're gonna go out there and 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.720 they're gonna be tough from from the first hole to 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.560 the last. And uh, you know each course, bal To 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.480 Straw and wings you know, they got their course that 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.760 doesn't host the majors, which I've heard both of them 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:10.200 are really good. But I mean i'd probably give it 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.480 to I probably give the nod to Monterey just because 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.640 of how fun they are and how playable they are 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.400 for probably the everyday person. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.160 Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that's the shift 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:28.480 in really architecture and people are starting to realize that 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:33.120 that'sa championship golf and difficulty aren't the you know, really 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.720 true definition of a great golf course. I think they 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.360 have a part in you know, determining certain courses greatness, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.880 but definitely not the shouldn't be the defining factor. So 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:50.120 you know, Zach, You're kind of parlayed perfectly into talking 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.720 about you know, Scott Steel National and Jackson and Conn. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.600 I'm curious what you thought about the bad little nine 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.600 the little part three course that Bob Parsons built out 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.960 there to be, you know, the hardest part three course 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:05.560 in America. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:10.960 I mean, I don't know if I can say enough 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.480 good things about, you know, my experience out Snow National 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.680 just I mean, from the moment we got there till 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.680 the moment we left, I mean, I don't I seriously 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.119 don't know if I've ever been to a club in 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:30.719 my entire life that was as enjoyable and fun and inviting. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.720 And I mean they just did everything that I could 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.399 ever want at a club. From the moment that I 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.280 got out of my car till the moment I left, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:43.000 it was unbelievable. And then you know, the golf was 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.600 just kind of it was awesome. I mean, that place 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.480 is so cool that that little nine hole part three 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:53.680 course is unbelievable. I mean, it's definitely accomplished its goal 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.640 of being the hardest part three course in the world. 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:57.280 I bet. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.480 You can make that place as hard as you would 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:04.000 ever want it to be. I guess on Fridays they 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.239 kind of set it up, you know, as hard as 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.800 they can and give you a chance. If you break 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.040 par or shoot even they give you like a thousand 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.080 dollars bar tab or something like that. So it's a 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.680 pretty cool little, uh little game they get on Fridays. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.359 And I don't think anybody's even touched that, you know, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.520 going out there for the first time that day. But 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.800 I mean it's so cool and at the same time, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:27.880 they can set it up as easy as they want 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.640 it too. There's a lot that the greens are massive 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.160 for the most part, and there's a lot of undulation 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.720 and slope and they can put pins in really easy 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.760 spots and they get really fun for anybody of any 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:44.639 skill level, I guess. But I mean it's so cool. Visually, 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.760 it's awesome. They did a really good job out there, 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.800 and I was able to see, you know, some of 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.520 the other work they did out on the other course, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.480 which is you know, looks like it's pretty tough and 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:59.119 pretty good as well. So I really enjoyed it, you know. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.760 I got a lot of craft. I wrote my newsletter 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:08.720 that Phoenix and Scottsdale was an over like a below 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.520 average golf town, and I just I got by people, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.399 and I'd love to hear your guys's two takes on 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:17.760 on the subject matter. 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:22.520 Yeah, take it away, John. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.680 Well, look, I haven't played a lot of golf in 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.960 the Phoenix and Scottsdale area, and so my response to 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.119 you would be, I think it's reasonable to assume that 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:36.960 there is a reason that I haven't played a whole 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:41.879 lot of golf in the Phoenix and Scottsdale area. I 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:46.760 am not normally a big fan of desert golf usually 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.680 as far as playability goes, it just isn't a style 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.080 of golf that appeals to me. By definition, desert golf 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.359 isn't really can't really be minimalists, which I tend to 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:03.159 gravitate towards that that kind of a style. Everything is manufactured, 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.240 and it's very difficult, I've found for architects, and especially 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.159 since a lot of those courses were built during the 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.200 same time period when a lot of architects weren't. 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:14.560 Even paying attention to that kind of thing. 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.080 What you end up with is a lot of courses 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.560 that don't really fit into my typical preferred style. Of play, 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.320 so to speak. But I've been that once. I played 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.680 half a dozen seven eight courses out that way. I 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.879 liked a couple of them, didn't like a couple others. Again, 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.600 I don't like to criticize an area or a specific 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.680 golf course too harshly, but it's just not an area 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.320 that is my cup of teaths, so to speak. You know, 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.879 there are in the list of places in the United 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:50.840 States that I would rather take a golf trip to. 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:55.879 There are probably thirty or forty locales that would be 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.040 on that list ahead of the Scott's the area. They 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.480 got great weather in the winter, though, so they shouldn't 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:00.920 be too upset. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:05.680 Yeah, I mean, I think the easiest way to put 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.800 that is, like John just said, I think there's so 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:14.480 many areas that are head over heels better, that have 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:20.160 such a bigger group of great golf courses that it's 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.680 hard to head to Phoenix just for the weather or 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.520 just for you know, the handful of good golf courses 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.600 when you could, you know, pick thirty other places in 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:35.200 America that have way more courses that are really really 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.480 good and the weather's probably just as good. 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:46.199 Yeah. Well, that's my whole point was quantity does an 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:51.199 equal quality. So so you know, speaking of we were 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.479 just talking about nine whole courses, I'd love to hear 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.119 some of your guys' favorite nine whole courses that you've played. 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.760 Yeah, I mean that that bad little nine was as 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.080 cool as you get from a little part three perspective. 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.000 But one of my favorite courses I think in the 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:15.879 entire world is Cohukuo Golf Club or golf course whatever 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:20.280 out on the north Shore in Hawaii. It's it's not 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.400 always in the best shape, but i mean, man, it's 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:26.680 on the coolest piece of property, and it's got some 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.240 really cool holes with some great little green complexes, And 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:32.880 you know, I think if that if that place ever 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.359 got any money put into it, I think it would 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:37.840 be the best nine hole course in the world. 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:43.320 Probably I gotta get out to Hawaii. In my book, 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.520 it would be Dunes Club number one by a pretty 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:52.639 wide margin. Mike Kaiser's Playground in southwestern Michigan is uh 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.680 just a terrific place. Again. It's it's got the architecture, 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.920 it's got the vibe. It's got so many holes that 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.120 can be played but from different angles, from different keys 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.640 that really changes the composition. Of the golf course, which 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:11.040 I think is terrific. A close second would be Whitonsville 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.960 south of Boston, which is an old Donald Ross nine 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:18.640 hole course that is both beautiful and just terrific to play, 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:20.159 absolute blast. 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.720 Anybody who lives in the Northeast needs to see that place. 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:28.080 And then beyond that it gets a little bit tough. 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:30.280 There are a couple that I know I will love 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.480 that I need to see, like Culver and Sweden's Cove, 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:40.240 but I think Dunes Club in Whitonsville would be the 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.919 clear top of the list for me for nine hole courses. 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:43.960 YEA. 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:49.399 Another another cool little nine hole course in Saint George's, 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:54.399 Utah is the San Hollow Links nine at Yeah San Holla. 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.680 That's I think that's probably the best course in Utah. 0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:59.680 So that's another cool one to check out if you 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:00.440 ever in the area. 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:06.840 That place looks about as visually stunning as any course 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:08.639