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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the price.

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Speaker 4: You leave someone out of the past, we can enter

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Speaker 4: and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not through with us.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the next picture show a movie the

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Speaker 3: Week podcast debuted to a classic film and the way

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Speaker 3: it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm scott

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Speaker 3: to buy us here again with Tasha Robinson. Just Tasha,

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Speaker 3: no Keith, no Genevieve. But once again we have our

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Speaker 3: special guest, Charles Pramasco.

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Speaker 5: Hello, Charles, Hello, I'm glad to be here. We're visiting

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Speaker 5: as morbid subject matter as possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the week just flew by, didn't it just flew by?

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Speaker 3: And now you're back. In our last episode, we discussed

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Speaker 3: Jonathan Demi's The Silence of the Lamps, and now we're

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Speaker 3: going to dig into Long Legs, the bizarre and audacious

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Speaker 3: new horror movie by Osgood Perkins. After a brief prologue

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Speaker 3: and rural Oregon in the nineteen seventies, Long Legs jumps

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Speaker 3: ahead to the nineteen nineties when Lee Harker, a newly

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Speaker 3: recruited FBI agent played by Mike Monroe, has been assigned

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Speaker 3: to help investigate a perplexing, decades long series of murder

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Speaker 3: suicides that have taken place in homes across the state.

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Speaker 3: The crimes are always perpetuated by the father who murders

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Speaker 3: his wife and children before taking his own life, and

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Speaker 3: they're accompanied by a satanic branding in a cryptographic note

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Speaker 3: signed by a killer who calls himself Long Legs and

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Speaker 3: is played by Nicholas Cage. To say Lee's investigative techniques

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Speaker 3: are unconventional is an understatement. She has psychic abilities that

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Speaker 3: don't always work but prove helpful when they do. She

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Speaker 3: also has a personal steak in the long Legs hunt

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Speaker 3: that comes out over the course of the film. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk about the film in less vague terms after the break.

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Speaker 2: Tomorrow morning is knocking stalk your fridge? Now? How about

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Speaker 2: a creamy mocha rappaccinia drink or a sweet vanilla smooth

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Speaker 2: caramel maybe, or a white chocolate mocha, whichever you choose,

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Speaker 2: delicious coffee waits, find Starbucks Rappacino drinks wherever you buy

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Speaker 2: your groceries.

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Speaker 4: Is it scary being a lady FBI agent? Yeah, take

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Speaker 4: a nice long look.

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Speaker 3: Aletta was left with the bodies sign of one word.

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Speaker 4: I saw a bee strides up out of the sea,

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Speaker 4: seven heads and ten horns, And on his horns he

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Speaker 4: wore ten crowns. On each head was written a blast

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Speaker 4: from his name.

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Speaker 5: Why aren't you telling me.

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Speaker 4: He'll kill and kill again?

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Speaker 3: I know you're not afraid of a little bit of dark,

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Speaker 3: because you are the dark. I don't think I know

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Speaker 3: what either of you think of this movie. So I'm

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Speaker 3: very curious. Let's start again with our guest here, Charles,

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Speaker 3: what did you think of the film? Log links?

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Speaker 5: I am very, very fond of this movie. I you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm a huge horror guy. This is what I go

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Speaker 5: to the movies for. And this is a greade, a

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Speaker 5: USD certified cut of beef. I really enjoyed it. It

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Speaker 5: starts off it's my favorite kind of horror movie, and

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Speaker 5: that it starts up as one type of thing and

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Speaker 5: then ends us a very different type of thing. I

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Speaker 5: think the use of I mean, we're about to talk

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Speaker 5: about a lot of the things I like about it,

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Speaker 5: but just I think it's really well made. The aspect

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Speaker 5: of it that I find most interesting is how personal

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Speaker 5: it seems to be for the director, Oz Perkins, somewhat

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Speaker 5: famously the son of Anthony Perkins, star of Psycho, and

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Speaker 5: it seems like so much of this film is about processing,

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Speaker 5: if not his own trauma, the own complicated feelings left

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Speaker 5: over from his childhood, during which he was son to

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Speaker 5: a father who was a closet and homosexual diet of

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Speaker 5: the AIDS and a mother who died during nine to eleven.

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Speaker 5: Just just huge gales of tragedy thundering all around this kid,

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Speaker 5: and you can only imagine what that does to a person.

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Speaker 5: And I think the long legs who start to get

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Speaker 5: an idea of his you know, in our turmoil, just

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Speaker 5: the stuff thrashing around in his itd It's really raw

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Speaker 5: and really powerful. I liked it a lot, Tasha.

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Speaker 3: I'm suggesting like we're going to get a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a buzzkill happening here. I can just feel it.

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Speaker 3: I can feel it.

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Speaker 6: You know, call me Lady Boskia like that. That is

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Speaker 6: my name. Slash Job, slash Superhero identity, slash Powers. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: this movie just didn't sit that well for me. It

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Speaker 6: was one of the songs that I really enjoyed the

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Speaker 6: experience of watching for the most part, and by the

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Speaker 6: ending it had kind of lost me. And with the

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Speaker 6: actual ending, it completely lost me. I really do not

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Speaker 6: think that this movie stuck the landing. I wrote a

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Speaker 6: piece about that that will be up by the time

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Speaker 6: this podcast airs. The headline on that is long Legs

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Speaker 6: needed another scene, and I will stand by that. But

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Speaker 6: maybe the biggest issue for me here is that there

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Speaker 6: are a bunch of things that this movie does distinctively,

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Speaker 6: and I wanted more of that. Because Perkins has been

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Speaker 6: very clear throughout the press tour for this movie that

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Speaker 6: he's drawing heavily from Silence of the Lambs and Seven

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Speaker 6: and Twin Peaks, and I think that the DNA of

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Speaker 6: those projects is so clear here that it's hard not

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Speaker 6: to make comparisons, especially when a character takes an action

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Speaker 6: that's absolutely identical to an action that a similar character

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Speaker 6: in a similar situation takes in Twin Peaks at a

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Speaker 6: really crucial moment, and I just I found myself thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 6: but I've already seen this before in like the definitive version,

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Speaker 6: and this is just this just feels like a cover

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Speaker 6: of the original. So there was enough of that going

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Speaker 6: on in this movie that I just kept thinking, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: but go back to the thing that makes your movie

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Speaker 6: a distinctive, you know, go back to the part that's

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Speaker 6: just your voice and not your voice singing somebody else's song.

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Speaker 6: I wanted just a lot more of that out of

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Speaker 6: this feature.

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Speaker 5: I feel like I do this because I don't think

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Speaker 5: I know what you're referring to, the big specific thing.

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Speaker 6: What long Legs chooses to do when he's in the

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Speaker 6: room where he meets.

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Speaker 3: Yes, what's that again? Remind me?

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Speaker 5: Can we say it? I guess this will be people

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Speaker 5: who have seen the film, right, this is this is

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Speaker 5: this is what I'm just.

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Speaker 6: I'm trying not to spoil it, because we do get

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Speaker 6: a lot of people listening to this both before and

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Speaker 6: after they've seen the movie.

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Speaker 5: Like, as you may.

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Speaker 3: Recall, okay, oh right, right, right right, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 6: One of the areas that I always turned to Adam

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Speaker 6: and Josh admiringly. They have a really good way of

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Speaker 6: kind of like not just diving straight into and then

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Speaker 6: the movie ends with with that's this happening? You know

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Speaker 6: they can talk about it without just spelling it all out.

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Speaker 3: Did you find it a real head desk moment? Tasha Scott?

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Speaker 6: What Scott underscore.

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Speaker 3: I'm being suggestive, I'll asso say what it kind of is.

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Speaker 6: You're being a dad making a dad joke in the

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Speaker 6: darkest way possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Also you're a monster, poor mister long legs. So

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to say I fall between the two

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Speaker 3: of you, because I think I, on balance, I quite

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Speaker 3: like this movie. I have trouble making sense of it. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: I found whatever internal logic that it was trying to

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Speaker 3: kind of develop, I didn't really get or glow onto

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Speaker 3: by the time we kind of finds its conclusion. But

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Speaker 3: I think it's a film that was so gripping to

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Speaker 3: me as a stylistic exercise and as kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: it felt audacious and in new in its way. In

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Speaker 3: its way, I mean, I think this is Perkins is

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Speaker 3: someone who is you know, comes to movies with a

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Speaker 3: strong knowledge of other movies. I mean, if you've seen

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Speaker 3: The Black Coat's Daughter, I certainly if you've seen I

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Speaker 3: Am The Pretty Thing that Lives in the House. This

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Speaker 3: is a filmmaker who is steeped in horror history and

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Speaker 3: is kind of working a lot of these little archetypes

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Speaker 3: in ideas out in his own way on screen. And

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Speaker 3: I think Long Legs is maybe the most audacious effort

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Speaker 3: he has attempted he's made yet at doing that. And

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, in the character of Lee Harker,

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Speaker 3: you have someone who is similar to Clarice as we

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Speaker 3: will get into later, but you know, also has their

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Speaker 3: own issues. I mean obviously trauma that's related directly to

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Speaker 3: the killer who she's pursuing, but also the special abilities

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Speaker 3: that are make her unique and and and at presence

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Speaker 3: that is so disturbing in a way. You know that

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Speaker 3: that you know she doesn't know how to relate to

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Speaker 3: other people. You get that that incredible scene right at

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Speaker 3: the beginning where where she just happens to know that

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Speaker 3: who they're pursuing is in a house nearby. You know,

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Speaker 3: of course you can't call it in. You can't you

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Speaker 3: can't be you can't be a new recruit calling in

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Speaker 3: uh the f B I for backup, just because you

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Speaker 3: just have a hunch that somebody's in that house. And

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Speaker 3: of course her partner pays dearly for that call. But

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Speaker 3: the film has seen after scene like that. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, I found myself very excited by the film,

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Speaker 3: excited just to get go through it because from the

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Speaker 3: start it just felt so technically audacious and off kilter

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Speaker 3: and chilling in a way that you want a horror

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Speaker 3: film to be. Like the ambience of the film is

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Speaker 3: so dark and upsetting, and I think that's kind of

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Speaker 3: where I want to be with a horror film before

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Speaker 3: anything else, even if the plotting part doesn't make sense, Like,

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Speaker 3: if you can accomplish that much, you've kind of gone

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Speaker 3: pretty damn far in my in.

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Speaker 5: My book, the interesting thing about him, and I believe so.

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Speaker 5: I interviewed Oz Perkins for his last feature, Gretel and Hansel,

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Speaker 5: and I'm pretty sure this was for you, Tasha, right

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Speaker 5: before the pandemic, but the Sudden Supper conversation he really

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Speaker 5: thinks about I think his own movies, less in terms

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Speaker 5: of style or vibes or plot, but really in terms

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Speaker 5: of theme. Like he goes from a set of ideas

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Speaker 5: and then I believe kind of works outward from there,

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Speaker 5: and so a lot of the feeling of being unresolved

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Speaker 5: that I think sometimes has scanned to some people as

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Speaker 5: a lack of cohesion, that it seems like not everything

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Speaker 5: fits together. I guess that's what I prize about it,

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Speaker 5: that he's sort of like circling these ideas and you know,

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Speaker 5: touching on them from different angles, and it accumulates without

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Speaker 5: sort of drawing, you know, a conclusion. It's you know,

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Speaker 5: variations on a theme.

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Writing the piece that I wrote about the end, I

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Speaker 6: spend a lot of time having to contend with what

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Speaker 6: did I actually want because and that, you know, that's

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Speaker 6: something that the editor that I worked with on the

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Speaker 6: piece was kind of pushing me to spell out. But

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Speaker 6: the answer to that question is like, I don't want

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Speaker 6: to tell Oz Parkins how to end his movie. I

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Speaker 6: don't want to say, well, he needed to end it

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Speaker 6: by doing this or making this clear or whatever. It's

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Speaker 6: not that I wanted a specific thing to happen or

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Speaker 6: a specific thing to resolve, or to be told a

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Speaker 6: specific thing about the theme. It's just, you know, in

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Speaker 6: In Silence of the Lambs, it's it's a good example

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Speaker 6: like if the sequel didn't exist, which I would kind

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Speaker 6: of prefer to pretend it does not, we wouldn't know

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Speaker 6: where Hannibal went next, whether he and Clarice ever saw

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Speaker 6: each other again. Like, there's ambiguity there. It's not a

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Speaker 6: major cliffhanger of ambiguity, but it's not a story that

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Speaker 6: like neatly wraps up and finishes in one place and

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Speaker 6: like to look at other endings that are more like

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Speaker 6: long legs endings in terms of ambiguity. I kind of

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Speaker 6: landed on John Carpenter's The Thing, you know, where we're

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Speaker 6: left with all of these big open questions about what

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Speaker 6: we're actually seeing on the screen, what it means, what's

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Speaker 6: going to happen next. I wanted a sense of that

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Speaker 6: kind of like pregnant moment, that kind of sense of

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Speaker 6: threat and menace and specific questions, and instead what I

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Speaker 6: got was just sort of a sense of I'm not

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Speaker 6: sure what the rules of this world are at this point,

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Speaker 6: and I'm not sure any of the directions that these

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Speaker 6: characters specifically or this world in general could go. So

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Speaker 6: I don't know. The theme throughout the movie seemed strong,

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Speaker 6: but to me that ending just kind of like dissipates it,

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Speaker 6: like the puff of smoke out of the broken doll's head.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that kind of when

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Speaker 3: I got as I got further along into the movie

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Speaker 3: and was trying to kind of sort through plot and

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Speaker 3: when you get into when you get into the stuff

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Speaker 3: involving the dolls and the sort of mesmeric quality and

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Speaker 3: all the stuff involving Alicia Witt, who plays Michael Moro's

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Speaker 3: in this it's again one of those things where maybe

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Speaker 3: it makes a certain psychological sense, an internal sense, but

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Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense sense in a way that was

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Speaker 3: terribly satisfying for me. It didn't feel worked out as

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Speaker 3: much as I would have wanted. And maybe that is

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Speaker 3: something that if I studied the film more closely, if

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Speaker 3: I saw it, you know, a second or third time,

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Speaker 3: that it would come through a little bit more. But

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Speaker 3: there was a little bit of sense of a disappointment

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Speaker 3: at the end of the line for me, despite again

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Speaker 3: buying large you very much liking this film. But we have,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we do have at the very least two

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Speaker 3: pretty striking lead performances here that we should probably get into.

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Speaker 3: What did you all think of Let's start with my

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Speaker 3: Mike Monroe's performance here. What do you think of her

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Speaker 3: performance and her character and where that's conceived.

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Speaker 5: I've seen the movie twice now, and I'll say that

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Speaker 5: the first time I saw it, I was not that,

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Speaker 5: you know, I was not as blown away by Mike

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Speaker 5: Monroe's performance as I was by Nicol Stages, because I

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Speaker 5: think hers does not go as big. The first time

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Speaker 5: I saw it, I thought she was kind of a

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Speaker 5: sort of a cipher type, you know, very blank, very serious.

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Speaker 5: But I think the second time I saw it, within

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Speaker 5: that within someone who is very withdrawn and someone who's

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Speaker 5: very subdued, and within someone who's kind of po face,

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Speaker 5: she finds a lot of notes. The scene where she

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Speaker 5: is at Blair Underwood's house for the first time and

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Speaker 5: meets his daughter is really sad and funny, where just

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Speaker 5: the cut to her sitting facing away from this child

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Speaker 5: on like the far end of her bed. It just

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Speaker 5: like she's so uncomfortable and you can tell, and there

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Speaker 5: is a comedy of awkwardness there. But then a few

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Speaker 5: lines later when the Blair Underward's daughter asked Mike Monroe

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Speaker 5: she wanted to be an agent when she was young,

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Speaker 5: and she says, no, I wanted to be an actress,

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Speaker 5: And the kid says something to the effect of like

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Speaker 5: that's bad for children, which is first off, unbelievable to

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Speaker 5: hear coming from Oz Perkins, who did act when he

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Speaker 5: was younger, was starting very young, grew up around showbiz.

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Speaker 5: But just we get this, really this never comes up again.

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Speaker 5: We get this really brief glimpse into Mike Monroe's character,

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Speaker 5: and we see that underneath this kind of effic this

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Speaker 5: exterior is there's much more going on than meets the eye.

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Speaker 6: I had a little bit of a problem with the

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Speaker 6: way her character is written in like the big final scene,

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Speaker 6: in terms of that being the first place in the

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Speaker 6: movie where that kind of like blank affectlessness pushed hard

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Speaker 6: enough that I just kind of didn't buy it, Like

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Speaker 6: her passiveness, her lack of action in a circumstance where

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Speaker 6: that's hard to buy honestly from anybody, you know. I

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Speaker 6: feel like it's very hard to describe to people because

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Speaker 6: it just so much sounds in description like, well, I mean,

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Speaker 6: she's traumatized, she's facing a difficult decision, she's facing an

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Speaker 6: untenable situation, and she makes the choice that she can make.

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Speaker 6: It all seems so justified in description, in explanation, but

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Speaker 6: in execution it just kind of feels like she turns

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Speaker 6: off and is not really there. And I found that

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Speaker 6: a little disappointing, because throughout the entire movie, I actually

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Speaker 6: thought that that kind of lack of affect, especially the

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Speaker 6: thousand Yards stare she kind of picks up when she's

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Speaker 6: sitting in her boss's office being interrogated about things. To me,

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Speaker 6: there's so much nuance in the idea of this woman

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Speaker 6: has been experiencing psychic flashes. She knows they're inexplicable. She

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Speaker 6: knows that she doesn't have like a belief system around them,

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Speaker 6: like she's not going to pull out the crystals and

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Speaker 6: start talking like new Age stuff or whatever. She is

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Speaker 6: experiencing things that are meaningful to her and that can't

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Speaker 6: be passed along, and she knows that there's just no

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Speaker 6: good is going to come of answering questions or submitting

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Speaker 6: to interrogation or explaining how she feels. And I feel

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Speaker 6: like Michael Monroe just pulls off this kind of incredible

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Speaker 6: performance of expressing somebody who's going through life kind of

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Speaker 6: constantly being re traumatized, retraumatized by these horrible flashes, retraumatized

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Speaker 6: by her ongoing contact with her mother and her reminder

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Speaker 6: of all of the baggage that she's carrying there. And

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Speaker 6: she's trying to be a person in the world where

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Speaker 6: she can, but it's kind of exhausting. The moment where

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Speaker 6: her boss says, you know, come in and meet my

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Speaker 6: wife and kid, and she just says, do I have to?

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Speaker 6: I think it's both very very telling and just maybe

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Speaker 6: like a little crack into the interior of what she's feeling.

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Speaker 6: I don't think I've ever seen a Mike and Moreau

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Speaker 6: performance that I didn't like. Somewhere between a whole lot

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Speaker 6: and like Over the Moon, I.

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Speaker 3: Think the kind of key scene for me is the

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Speaker 3: one right after the one you just mentioned Tasha, where

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Speaker 3: she has a moment a scene with her boss's daughter

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Speaker 3: in the girl's bedroom and they actually have a little connection,

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Speaker 3: you know, and the girl wants there to come to

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Speaker 3: her birthday party, and that kind of sets up a

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Speaker 3: bit of plotting that, of course, you know, comes into

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Speaker 3: the climax of the film. But there is kind of

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Speaker 3: a recognition of her as a child, and I think

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Speaker 3: there's a way in which Mike and Moreau's character is

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Speaker 3: Duck in that time as well and has a certain

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Speaker 3: identification with a kid of that age at that moment.

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Speaker 3: So there's that piece of it, I think, And I

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Speaker 3: think there's something just interesting and sad about this being

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Speaker 3: the career that she's gone into and that she is

350
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Speaker 3: certainly not escaping the trauma that's affected her as a

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Speaker 3: child and is kind of having to steer into it,

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Speaker 3: and is also this sort of freak in a way

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Speaker 3: she's not. She seems to understand certain investigative techniques, but

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Speaker 3: there's also this reliance of sorts on her weird instincts,

355
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Speaker 3: the ability to see things that makes her an awkward

356
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Speaker 3: and yet somewhat essential piece of the FBI investigative team.

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Speaker 3: It's an interesting character.

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Speaker 5: One of her I think less talked about performances is

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Speaker 5: really terrific. She has a supporting role. She is not

360
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 5: the final girl in the movie Greta, where crazy Isabella

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Speaker 5: Para terrorizes Cloude Grace Moretz. Mike Monroe is the kooky

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Speaker 5: roommate who also gets into some trouble of her own.

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Speaker 5: But even just in that limited capacity, really good, really imorble.

364
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Speaker 3: She's proud, And I think there's I think there's some

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00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 3: evidence that miss Perkins weirdly has got has come out

366
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Speaker 3: and talked about how little interesting he has in modern

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Speaker 3: horror films, particularly the films of ty West. That was

368
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 3: a very funny interview. But like, there does seem to

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Speaker 3: be some evidence not just on Monroe's casting, but about

370
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Speaker 3: some of the stylistic elements of Long Legs that mister

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Speaker 3: Perkins may have seen the film it follows.

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Speaker 5: I would say that I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: ariast in Gretel and Hansel in the way he has

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Speaker 5: this kind of geometric composition. This guy watches movies. He

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Speaker 5: gets it, he knows.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just not Tye West. He does. He wants nothing

377
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Speaker 3: to do.

378
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Speaker 5: With it, which can we blame him?

379
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Speaker 3: I kind of accept except Maxine Man that one. That

380
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Speaker 3: one let me down. I was really let down anyway.

381
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Speaker 3: What about Nicholas Cage. This is a performance that is

382
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Speaker 3: that you might say is expected of Cage because he

383
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Speaker 3: can he can go out on a limb and play

384
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Speaker 3: some pretty wild characters. And but is this a standout

385
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Speaker 3: for you? Do do you feel like? Did you like Nicholas

386
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 3: Cage's work as mister long Legs.

387
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Speaker 5: I love this one. I've always thought of Nicholas Cage

388
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 5: as like a laser canon, in that he really only

389
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 5: needs to be pointed in the correct direction and then

390
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 5: he is tremendously effective. And I think so many of

391
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Speaker 5: his instincts towards spontaneity, towards unpredictability, towards theatricality. So many

392
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Speaker 5: of the parts of his distinct style that people assume

393
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 5: or just hurling spaghetti of the wall are revealed to

394
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 5: be very calculated and very deliberate in this film. I

395
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 5: think it really shows that he makes choices more consciously

396
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Speaker 5: than people give them credit for. I think the big

397
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,719
Speaker 5: swing aspects of this performance, the sort of high pitched voice,

398
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,199
Speaker 5: the bizarre body language, the cuckoo little cuckoo bit. We

399
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 5: love that cuckoo bit.

400
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Speaker 2: No.

401
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 5: I think that it really goes to show that he

402
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 5: is building something coherent, or at least it makes sense

403
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 5: to me.

404
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Speaker 6: I just I find it interesting that one of the

405
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 6: things I got out of the press kit for this

406
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Speaker 6: movie is that Cage was drawing from the the prophet

407
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 6: in Juliet of the Spirits, the Fellini movie to inspire

408
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 6: this character. And yeah, yeah, I mean, he is somebody

409
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 6: else that watches movies, somebody else that takes his craft

410
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 6: very seriously. And it's always sort of hilarious to me

411
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 6: to see something like one of my favorite Cage movies

412
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 6: of all time is Mom and Dad, you know, the

413
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 6: movie where he Charles is pumping his fist, the movie

414
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 6: where he speaks the line they call it us alls

415
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 6: all because it saws all, one of my favorite Cage

416
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 6: line readings of all time. But like, even in a

417
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 6: movie like that where he just seems like he's yelling

418
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,479
Speaker 6: at the rafters people interviewing him about these movies, you know,

419
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 6: he thinks a lot about the performances, He thinks a

420
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,719
Speaker 6: lot about what he's putting on screen, and he always

421
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 6: seems to have some semi obscure to very high falutin

422
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 6: like inspirations and directions in terms of what he's drawing.

423
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 6: I have to admit that even though I knew going

424
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 6: into this movie that was Nicholas Cage movie. Even though

425
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 6: I really really should have seen him in that performance,

426
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 6: I did not. There's just there's so much makeup, there's

427
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 6: so much lateux on his face. He's doing such a weird,

428
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 6: off putting thing with his voice and his body language.

429
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 6: It honestly wasn't until the closing credits that I went,

430
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 6: all right, that's what I was saying, that's why that

431
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 6: character is that character.

432
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 3: Nicholas Cage disappearing into a performance for a rare time

433
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 3: in his career.

434
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Speaker 6: I mean, to be fair, he's got like thirty pounds

435
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 6: of latex on his face.

436
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 3: He does, But it is right that there is that

437
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: part of it. I think there's a thing with Cage's

438
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 3: really great performances. I think he recognizes material when it's

439
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: good and rises to the occasion because he makes a

440
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 3: lot of films, and there are films where I wouldn't

441
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 3: say he's completely checked out of certain performances. I mean,

442
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 3: but he's been in his share of Geezer to User

443
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 3: type of movies. And there's a difference between Cage and

444
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: those movies and Cage in Joe or Pig or you know,

445
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 3: Long Legs, where it's just like, Okay, he knows he's

446
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 3: in something special. He's producing a lot of the time

447
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 3: he's a producer on this film. I think he is

448
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 3: a good sense of when the material is good and

449
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 3: when he should really kind of bring something special to

450
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 3: the table, and I think he does so here for sure.

451
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 5: If you Scan is a CV, he works with more

452
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 5: first time directors than like most actors. He's definitely someone who, yeah,

453
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 5: thinks about the script more and more than anything. Oh

454
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 5: but just you and Tasha. You had mentioned the makeup,

455
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 5: and I had read a really interesting bit from an

456
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 5: interview with Cage where he says that his you know,

457
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 5: character reason for doing that. He thought long Legs wanted

458
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 5: to make himself beautiful for Satan. He wanted to, you know,

459
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 5: make himself as pretty as possible for the man downstairs,

460
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 5: mister downstairs.

461
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually did a piece about that for Polygons.

462
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 5: That I read is that what I'm talking about.

463
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 6: It might well be. Although the piece that I wrote,

464
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 6: it wasn't Cage that said it. It was the makeup

465
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 6: designer who who was working with Perkins. They were kind

466
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 6: of like reaching for inspirations and the idea that they

467
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 6: lighted on was that he's had so many plastic surgeries

468
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 6: in an attempt to become beautiful for Satan, and they

469
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 6: were all botched. So you end up with this, Like

470
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 6: they looked at, you know, plastic surgery disasters and the

471
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 6: kind of like build up and a creting of scar

472
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 6: tissue that happens in some of these more extreme deformity cases.

473
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 6: But they also looked at things like there was a

474
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 6: moment where they were going to base it on Mason Verger,

475
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 6: the Gary Oldman character in the Silence of the Lamb's prequel,

476
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 6: and they decided that maybe that was a little too extreme.

477
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 6: Cage wanted them to base it on the original family,

478
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 6: the opera, the lawn chainey makeup job, and I think

479
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 6: if you look at what they ended up with, like

480
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 6: there's a little influence from both of them, kind of

481
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 6: in the upturned nose and the just sort of the

482
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 6: overall dimensionality. I wasn't sure what to make of that

483
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 6: when I was watching the film, because it reminded me

484
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 6: so much of Adam Pearson's face and under the skin,

485
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 6: you know, the there's a specific condition that causes facial tumors,

486
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 6: and Jonathan Glazer for under the Skin, you know, met

487
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 6: with this young man who has significant facial deformity and

488
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 6: put him in the movie because he thought it was

489
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 6: an interesting presence. And Pearson has gone on become like

490
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 6: a huge advocate for like, you know, disability awareness and

491
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 6: for like the public presence of people with you know,

492
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 6: marked like different looks. And he's in a new movie

493
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 6: right now, a different man. So I like I was,

494
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 6: I was just not sure given the similarity there in

495
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 6: terms of what his face looks like, if we were

496
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 6: meant to see him as a like a sympathetic finger

497
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 6: because the character Pearson plays in Under the Skin is

498
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 6: just so evocative, you know, there's there's so much that

499
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 6: that character communicates again with body language, with dialogue, in

500
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 6: terms of what his life has been like with his

501
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 6: face and like how difficult he finds it to trust people.

502
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 6: And I kept thinking, like his long legs meant to

503
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 6: be somebody who suffers from, you know, a specific condition.

504
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 6: And then we get to like the laugh sequence in

505
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 6: the hardware store with the disaffected, bored teenage cashier, who,

506
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 6: by the way, is Oz Perkins's daughter, and I'm like, oh, nope, nope,

507
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 6: we're just supposed to be laughing at this dude in

508
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 6: his weird face and his weird behavior.

509
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I read

510
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 3: a huge amount of dimensionality to mister long Legs. Generally,

511
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 3: I think whatever, I think both the psychology is reserved

512
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 3: for Michael Monroe's character and perhaps a little bit to

513
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 3: her mother as well. I just saw long Legs as

514
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 3: a particularly you know, unnerving sort of boogeyman here.

515
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 5: He's a force of nature. He's it's almost surprising when

516
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 5: we find out where he lives and that he's just

517
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 5: around because he feels like, you know, almost like a

518
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 5: spirit like it. It's strange to imagine him literally in

519
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 5: a domestic setting like that. I always imagine that his

520
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 5: little layer was just you know, unstuck in place.

521
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, you don't see him going going to the

522
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: mall or something like that.

523
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 5: And yet and yet he does go to the hardware store,

524
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 5: which is such a funny scene where he's like, you know,

525
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 5: murderers got run errands too. Sometimes you just need to

526
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 5: take an afternoon and knock out some stuff you've been

527
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 5: meaning to do.

528
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 3: He'll be part of it. You could be in a

529
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 3: cure cover band.

530
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 5: Tiny Tim's solo cover act.

531
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 3: So let me I guess one last question before we

532
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: pivot to Connections. Were you scared by this film? It

533
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: was this film scary? Does it matter to you that

534
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: a film is scared, that a horror film is scary? Like,

535
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: what's the what was your scare level on this? Like

536
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: could Genevieve have watched this and been okay?

537
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 6: I don't think Genevieve could have watched it because I

538
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 6: truly do not remember at this point how much of

539
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 6: this we've put on the show versus how much of

540
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 6: it is just like back channel conversation. But her problem

541
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 6: is not so much like she she doesn't love Gore,

542
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 6: but her problem is not with Gore. Her problem is

543
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 6: with tension. And I don't think that this is a

544
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 6: very scary movie. Like I am still kind of a

545
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 6: worse when it comes to horror movies. I hate to

546
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 6: be all like Polygon, Polygon Polygon. But our writer that

547
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 6: covered it wrote a piece that was basically like, this

548
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 6: is a comedy. You know, it's a very dark comedy

549
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 6: with a lot of tension. It's really effective. Like he

550
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 6: loved this movie, but he's also a big horror buff

551
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 6: and he's like, yeah, it's not scary, and that's not

552
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 6: a problem. It's just a problem if you've been paying

553
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 6: attention to Neon's marketing, which is built around it being

554
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 6: like the scariest movie of the year, maybe the scariest

555
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 6: movie of all time, And I just don't think it's

556
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 6: that scary. But there is a lot of just like lingering,

557
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 6: oppressive what's going to happen next to tension that I

558
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 6: don't think would play well with the specific thing that

559
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 6: jenem does not enjoy in this kind of movie.

560
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 5: As for me, I was just going to basically recuse

561
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: myself fro this' where I'm the wrong person to ask,

562
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 5: and that I generally don't find movies scary, especially movies

563
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 5: where like clearly fictitious things happen and anything that is

564
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 5: distanced from reality in any way. I'm like, oh, well,

565
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 5: I don't have to worry about.

566
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 3: That to me.

567
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 5: To me, the only scary movie is The Final Destination Franchise,

568
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 5: because it shows you that death is everywhere waiting for

569
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 5: you in the most banal items you could imagine. That's

570
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 5: the only thing that scares me. I angle all the

571
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 5: knives away from me on my drying rack. Now whenever

572
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 5: I put them in there, but you're.

573
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 6: Not worried that your dishwasher is going to fall open,

574
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 6: scaring a mouse that runs up a wall, causing some

575
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 6: wallpaper to fall, causing a tea kettle to go off,

576
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 6: and like reverse the knives, which you're then going to

577
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 6: fly through the air.

578
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 5: Death finds a way.

579
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: Death finds ou there. It's very famous line from Jeff

580
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 3: Goldbloom in a Jurassic Park.

581
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 5: Another film about people defying the will of God.

582
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 6: That's what really frightens you is people define the will

583
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 6: of God. I'm fascinated with this. Take Charles again as

584
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 6: kind of a whiss, and often it was about supernatural movies,

585
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 6: like I still reach back to the orphanage as maybe

586
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 6: the most unnerved I've been in a film in a

587
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 6: long time. And yeah, it's a bunch of ghosts and

588
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 6: as far as we know, ghosts don't exist. Sorry, are

589
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 6: to our large contingent of ghost chaser fans listening to

590
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 6: this right now, can you point to a movie that like,

591
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 6: actually did scare you?

592
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, my stance on this is not so

593
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 5: different from my wife's. We're the only thing that scares her.

594
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 5: Are really like psychological horror things about the main character

595
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 5: becoming insane because like she was like, well that can

596
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 5: of light on anyone at any time, you could lose

597
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 5: your mind for any number of reasons in any way.

598
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 5: And so yeah, I mean plausibility is the thing I

599
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 5: find the most chilling. You know, A movie that scares

600
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 5: the crap out of me is spoor Loose Vanishing, where

601
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 5: there is an unstoppable force of evil that has crept

602
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 5: into your life and done something that is sort of unremarkable,

603
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 5: disappeared to person you know, which can happen, you know,

604
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 5: but just the aura of darkness that is emanating from

605
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 5: that one. So that's high up on my list. Well,

606
00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 5: I'm going to consider that if something comes to me,

607
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 5: I'll I'll circle back.

608
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. That's another film that

609
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: people should see if they haven't already. Do avoid the

610
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: remake the same director when I hadn't made it, made

611
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 3: it and change the ending less effective, I would say,

612
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: the new ending. But I have to appreciate, just to

613
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: go to Long Legs, that Neon has done the A

614
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: twenty four thing of bringing a lot of people in

615
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: the theater and then disappointing the hell out of them.

616
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: Leave them groaning and leaving up perplexed reviews and ratings

617
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: all over the internet.

618
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 5: I love those f cinema scores. I live for it.

619
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 6: I love it it just specifically by misrepresenting the movie.

620
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 6: You know that that game of it's so important to

621
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 6: get butts in seats that we don't care if they

622
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 6: like it, And therefore we're going to market this film

623
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 6: in such a way that the people that would most

624
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 6: love it won't see it, and the people who are

625
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 6: you know, primed to expect it to be something it's not,

626
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 6: are going to be there day one and then walk

627
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 6: out angry, like I don't understand the impetus to sell

628
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 6: a movie this way.

629
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you know what I'll Audiences did like though,

630
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: the Silence of the Lambs. So we are going to

631
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: talk about the connections between Long Legs and Silence of

632
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: the Lambs in a second, two films that audiences felt

633
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: very different about.

634
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 4: Will you tell me the honest truth about something I'll try.

635
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: Do you still say your prayers? Oh? I never said

636
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 4: my prayers number once.

637
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 6: They scared me.

638
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: Now it's time for connections, when we bring these two

639
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: films together and talk about all the things they have

640
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: in common, Tasha, I guess there's some obvious There's there's

641
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: at least one obvious thing that they have in common, right,

642
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I.

643
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 6: Think there are a billion obvious things. This is a

644
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 6: long list of connections, but maybe one of the most

645
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 6: surfacy and easy to discuss is the fact that these

646
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 6: are both fundamentally movies about young women who are new

647
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 6: b FBI agents. You know, they're coming into the situations

648
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 6: that they're in, you know, both as women in men's

649
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 6: worlds and as kind of like physically diminutive, like non presupposing,

650
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 6: kind of small figures. They're both being kind of like

651
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 6: escorted into the profession by male mentors who are veterans

652
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 6: with like a lot of respect behind their names, who

653
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 6: can kind of give them in roads that they wouldn't

654
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 6: have otherwise and access to the cases that they wouldn't

655
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 6: have otherwise. But they both still have a lot to prove,

656
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 6: you know, they both still have They want to help,

657
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 6: they want to do good, they want to improve the world,

658
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 6: and the fastest way they can do that is both

659
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 6: by kind of being jumped ahead of the line by

660
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 6: these mentors and just by being excellent, like being superlative

661
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 6: at what they do is very important because there nobody's

662
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 6: going to give them grace, you know, if they fail.

663
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 6: They're both in situations where a lot is at stake

664
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 6: for them personally and professionally, because they're new, because they're young,

665
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 6: because they're women, because they're small, and that I think

666
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 6: just infects both of these movies with an extra sense

667
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 6: of threat that has nothing to do with the you know,

668
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 6: the supernatural or killers or super genius killers that provide

669
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 6: some of them more overt threats.

670
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's true, I think, But I also

671
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: think there's some interesting contrasts here when you start to

672
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: thinking about their motives and yeah, because I think you

673
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: do have lect. You're laying it out pretty plainly about

674
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: about Clarice's ambitions, about her getting all the way to the.

675
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 5: FBI memorably parodied Jack Donagie on thirty Rock.

676
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 3: Yes, a lot, so many things, so many things parodied

677
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 3: in thirty Rock very well. But like there is there

678
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 3: is this ambition powerful and you know, she has strong

679
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: career ambitions, you know, and it is she is sort

680
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: of both running away from her past and also connecting

681
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 3: with it as well, given her father's her love for

682
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: her father and his role in law law enforcement, and

683
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 3: her wanting to stake her claim in that arena with

684
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: Michael Monroe in long Legs. So it's a little murkier.

685
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 3: She's I guess, confronting her past too in her way,

686
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: but I think it's a little bit perplexing. She's a

687
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 3: little bit more of a mystery, and she certainly kind of,

688
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: you know, seems to be a mystery to the people,

689
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 3: to her colleagues who are just who kind of need

690
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: her and use her, but don't really know what to

691
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: make of her because she is so strange and enigmatic.

692
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: What does she want? Who is this person?

693
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 5: I guess they both want the same thing. I mean

694
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 5: Clarice and Lee Harker, which is a healing self actualization.

695
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 5: There's something very therapeutic, and this is played literally in

696
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 5: Simcevi Lambs where there's this great scene where there's the

697
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 5: exchange between Clarice and Hannibal where she is trying to

698
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 5: get at things and he keeps telling her that she's wrong,

699
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 5: but he won't tell her what it actually is, which

700
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 5: is the classic therapist thing. They will not actually give

701
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 5: you the answers, but they will very painstakingly lead you

702
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 5: to find that out yourself. And so these twisted therapy

703
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 5: sessions that Hannibal Elector lures Clarican. Although there's nothing that

704
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: transactional in Long Legs until we get to that, you know,

705
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 5: long away to confrontation scene near the end of the

706
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 5: second act, I do think that it's the same impulse

707
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 5: in Lee Harker, that there is a wound inside of

708
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 5: her that she's trying to heal. It's a psychical scar

709
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: from having literally met Long Legs when she was younger,

710
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 5: but in adulthood she doesn't completely comprehend that, and it's

711
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 5: just there's a bad feeling inside of you, and there's

712
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 5: a hope that if you can save enough other people,

713
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 5: then you know you can save yourself, which again you've

714
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 5: seen so many other things play that much more bluntly,

715
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 5: much more amfistedly, and it's done in a sort of sideways, diagonal,

716
00:36:59,160 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 5: twisted way here.

717
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 6: But in both cases it is still about reconnecting both

718
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 6: with a past and with a parental figure that you

719
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 6: have unresolved issues with, you know, Afford Clarice, those unresolved

720
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,959
Speaker 6: issues are much more prosaic, I think in terms of

721
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 6: her father at least just being taken from her early

722
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 6: on and leaving her without a parent figure and ending

723
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 6: her up. You know, in this like first traumatic then

724
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 6: isolated situation, whereas in Long Legs, the unresolved issues are

725
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 6: a lot more, you know, needing to be resolved in

726
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 6: a definitive way for a lot of reasons. But still,

727
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 6: you know, both of these figures are our people who

728
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 6: are carrying around a weight of kind of relationships, parental

729
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 6: relationships in their past that left a humongous mark on

730
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 6: them that they're still trying to resolve in a way

731
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 6: that leaves them as functioning, independent adults. You know, that

732
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 6: kind of like trying to move past the marks that

733
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 6: were left on them by these parental figures. All bee

734
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 6: in very different ways.

735
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 5: Where is Lee Harker's dad. This is not talked about,

736
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 5: this is not addressed. He's not there. We're left to

737
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 5: make all these intimations about who or what he might

738
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 5: have been. But I think that that like really bold

739
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 5: structuring absence, which again is never tended to, it kind

740
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 5: of hangs over the whole movie, and exactly the way

741
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 5: you're talking about where these parental problems, one of them

742
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 5: is attenteeism, and so the vacant space is filled by who,

743
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 5: by long Legs as a surrogate, by the devil as

744
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 5: a surrogate. It's very creepy, very unsettling.

745
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 6: Or maybe not a surrogate. I mean there is also

746
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 6: a long cinematic tradition of you know, Rosemary's babying. And

747
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 6: if we don't know, we don't really know why long

748
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 6: Legs is so specifically fascinated with Lee. We don't know

749
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 6: why that original contact or why she was so important

750
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 6: that the plot could hinge around her and that connection

751
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 6: in this way.

752
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe this is a service level reading of

753
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 5: the plot, but I think long Legs mentioned something about

754
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 5: having been drawn less to Mike Monroe as a kid,

755
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 5: but the mom. The fact that she was a nun

756
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 5: for the church meant that she could gain entry to

757
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 5: people's homes and they wouldn't think twice about it.

758
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 6: And there's also something to be said for, you know,

759
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 6: a Satanist corrupting a nun in the way he does.

760
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 3: Sure, of course, Yeah, I don't know about those dolls.

761
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 3: That's tough.

762
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 5: If I was given a big creepy ceramic dollar, they're like, oh,

763
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 5: how nice. That's lovely. And then as soon as Alicia

764
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 5: went leaves my house, that's going right in the dumpster.

765
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 6: What is so creepy doll like exactly your size, that

766
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 6: was unquestionably modeled to look.

767
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: Exactly like you. I don't know, I don't know. I mean,

768
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 3: it's I guess it's kind of what American girl dolls

769
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: are like generally. I don't know. I went to a

770
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 3: tea party there once. That's all I know about that

771
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 3: about that place. So, you know, one of the other

772
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: sort of dynamics that these two films have in common

773
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 3: are that within the agency, these are women who are

774
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 3: isolated and sort of isolated in the world of men.

775
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 3: I think that's something that's pretty obviously much more thoroughly

776
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 3: interrogated and much more part of the fabric of the

777
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 3: Silence of the Lambs. But I think there's a, you know,

778
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: an otherness to Michael Monroe's presence in Long Legs that

779
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 3: has to do with her being a woman on top

780
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 3: of being this traumatized eccentric with the past in these

781
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 3: different abilities. So I guess maybe that's something worth getting into.

782
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 3: The contrast between these two are the men who surround

783
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: them at their jobs.

784
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 5: Honestly, I think the aspect of women in a man's

785
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 5: world is not played up as aggressively in Long Legs

786
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 5: as it is in Silence of Lambs. We get some

787
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 5: of those early scenes of Mike Monroe at like the

788
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: bureau meeting, where you see that she is the only

789
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 5: woman and see of men, But I don't think that

790
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 5: comes up as much her womanhood as being impediment to

791
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 5: her work or being an asset to her work. It

792
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 5: seems sort of incidental to the type of work she's doing.

793
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's certainly not central to the theme in the

794
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 6: way it is in Silence of the Lambs. But I

795
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 6: do think that both of these movies have kind of

796
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 6: a strong theme of men seeing women as commodities, as property,

797
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 6: particularly the killers at the center of the story. You know,

798
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 6: Buffalo Bill sees women as a source material for his

799
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 6: woman's suit, for his rebecoming. And there's one of the

800
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 6: kind of indelible sequences that spawned one of the biggest

801
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 6: catch phrases out of Silence of the Lambs is him

802
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 6: trying to tell his latest captive, you know, it puts

803
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 6: the lotion on its skin or else it gets the

804
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 6: hose again. And her crying for her mom and him

805
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 6: breaking down and try just visibly trying to resist seeing

806
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 6: her as a person or identifying with her emotions, which

807
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 6: he's not good at. He's not enough of a sociopath

808
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 6: to shrug off this person's feelings and to continue to

809
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 6: even though he's trying so hard to refer to it

810
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 6: as it, Even before she has her emotional breath break down,

811
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,959
Speaker 6: he does the it puts the lotion on its skin line.

812
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 6: But then he turns to his beloved dog just like

813
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 6: the world's fattest toy poodle Precious, and refers to his

814
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 6: captive as she repeatedly like he's doing it consciously and

815
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 6: he can't keep it up with long legs. It's more

816
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 6: about the girls, the girls that he creates in his lab,

817
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 6: and the way that he kind of like fetishizes these dolls.

818
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 6: The fact that the entray to all of these murders

819
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 6: is through the girls in the house, like he does

820
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 6: seem to have a very specific obsession with girls, Like

821
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 6: he could be getting into these houses in other ways,

822
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 6: or ponding or possessing these people in other ways. It

823
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 6: seems important that it's a doll. It seems important that

824
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 6: the way he targets families is specifically because of the

825
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 6: girl's birthdays, and it all kind of seems to come

826
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 6: down to that obsession with Lee and the fact that

827
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 6: you know, a bargain has been struck so that she

828
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 6: won't be taken up, but like other girls have to

829
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 6: kind of be the avatar in her place. So, you know,

830
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 6: even if kind of like that gender tension isn't central

831
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 6: to Long Legs, it's still something that's pretty consciously woven

832
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 6: into the narrative.

833
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 3: And I think they're both when it comes to the

834
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 3: people who are in charge. They're both kind of used

835
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 3: as tools in a way that you know that there

836
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: are instruments from which, rather than as colleagues, they're you know,

837
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 3: Clarice is sent to see Hannibal for reasons other than

838
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: her potential insight into the case. She's sent because they're

839
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: trying to get a reaction. They're out of Lecter and

840
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: Mike Monroe, and she has a certain ability. There's something

841
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 3: kind of freakish about her. You know that she has

842
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: this prescience or vision or whatever, and so that that's

843
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 3: a useful tool. But she's quite set apart from the gang.

844
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 3: She's not really part of the team, and that distance

845
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 3: is pretty palpable in both films. And I also wanted

846
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 3: to mention because it's identally because we brought her up briefly,

847
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: but brooks Myth, who plays Katherin Martin, I love that

848
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: performance in that character in Silence of the Lamps. It's

849
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: something we didn't mention, so I just wanted to mention

850
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 3: mention it here as an example, you know, of Demi

851
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 3: taking the time to create, you know, a real person

852
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 3: out of out of out of a character that could

853
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: have just been a victim. I love that we we

854
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: have her singing to Tom Petty before she gets taken in.

855
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 3: And I like the fact that she is so feisty

856
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: and angry and provocative when she's in a situation in

857
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 3: which you know, you might expect her to be scared

858
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: and silent. Her attempted manipulation of Buffalo Bill, her getting

859
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 3: really really mad at Clarisa's you know, not immediately coming

860
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 3: to her aid. I love all of that. I think

861
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 3: that's a that's you know, that's such a specific character

862
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: that is being drawn that you were just you never

863
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: see that, you never you almost never see someone of

864
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: that kind of dimension in a role like that in

865
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 3: a situation like that, So kudos to Demi and company

866
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: for that.

867
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 6: Also her resourcefulness, you know, the dog trap that she

868
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 6: builds for precious like this. This is coming out of

869
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 6: the novel, so I don't know how much credit a

870
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 6: Demi Kin get for it or the screenwriter, but generally,

871
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 6: in this kind of situation, if the protagonist was trapped

872
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 6: down the well, she would come up with this kind

873
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 6: of gimmick as a way to get out to prove

874
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 6: she's resourceful. I'm looking at you, ten Cloverfield Lane. But

875
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 6: if the protagonist is elsewhere and the person on the

876
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 6: well is just a victim like she is generally not

877
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 6: expected to contribute this much to her own salvation. And yeah,

878
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 6: I agree, she keeps coming up with ways to manipulate

879
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 6: Jamie to better her situation or at least to have

880
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 6: like a heavy agency, to have like a proactive hand

881
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 6: in her own rescue, which is, you know, always a

882
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 6: cool thing you like to see. I think one of

883
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 6: the interesting things about that contrast, though, between the two

884
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 6: lead characters in this case and in terms of their

885
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 6: release with their mentors, is that, you know, we spent

886
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 6: some time discussing Starling's relationship with Crawford, the relationship that

887
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 6: Lee has with her her kind of like you know,

888
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 6: mentor slash boss agent does not seem to have a

889
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 6: first name. Carter played by Blair Underwood, is so much

890
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 6: more skeptical. You know, he's the one that brings her

891
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 6: in because she unquestionably displays psychic power, and then she

892
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 6: just kind of keeps pulling the case forward while he

893
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 6: keeps sort of like questioning like how she's doing it,

894
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 6: where stuff is coming from. Like his whole job here

895
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 6: is just sort of like to be the skeptic about

896
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 6: the person that he put on the case because she

897
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 6: has access to things that he doesn't. The fact that

898
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 6: the FBI doesn't particularly interrogate where she gets the information

899
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 6: that we know where she's she's gotten it from is

900
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 6: just sort of a little fascinating to me. But then

901
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 6: the fact that he's just like sitting her down in

902
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 6: his office like grumping at her about her psychic powers,

903
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 6: like as she had come to him and said, by

904
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 6: the way, I'm psychic and I can help you out.

905
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 6: You know, he's got the evidence, you got all the clues,

906
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 6: mister policeman. You could have saved her. And yet you're

907
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 6: sitting around, like continue to yell at your employee because

908
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 6: basically you're just upset the psychic powers exist.

909
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 5: It did seem to me that as soon as she

910
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 5: demonstrates this, even you know, like somewhat facility for psychic powers,

911
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 5: they know what to do with her, Like they've got

912
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 5: a department for this, they have protocols for sussing these

913
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 5: people out. Like she gets fed into a system and

914
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 5: assigned to a unit where it's like, oh, so, clearly

915
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 5: the FBI knows that telepathy exists in some capacity and

916
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 5: they're accounting for that.

917
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, And that's such a weird sequence too, just in

918
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 6: terms of her being put in such an oppressive situation

919
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 6: and system. Maybe stress testing is part of it, but

920
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 6: nobody ever says anything to her, you know, apologies for

921
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 6: terrifying you and putting you through the ringer. That was

922
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 6: an important part of it.

923
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 5: I think about this, and I would love to ask

924
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 5: Oz about this, but I'm pretty sure that some of

925
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 5: the abstracts signs that they show her during that test

926
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 5: of her skills whatever. Those are compositions from later in

927
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 5: the movie. There are like exterior shots of buildings where

928
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 5: it's the same combination of like swirls and circles. I

929
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 5: think that's like a sort of creepy, subconscious, subliminal thing

930
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 5: that he's doing.

931
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 6: Okay, that would be a really neat thing to interrogate,

932
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 6: like later on Freeze Frame in terms of what her responses.

933
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 3: Are second viewings bring.

934
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 5: You here, Charles, I don't know. I mean, it's just

935
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 5: when they started showing for all this stuff like this

936
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 5: has to have some kind of significance beyond just showing

937
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 5: someone random things. And again, this is the same thing

938
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 5: I noticed in Gretel a Hansel. He thinks very geometrically

939
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 5: about composing a frame where he's all about like the

940
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 5: odd intersection of angles. He has a very German expressionist

941
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 5: way of thinking about this, especially with buildings. Yeah, his

942
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 5: movies look different than other peoples, which is always nice.

943
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: These are the sort of insights that our listeners could

944
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: get from the book Colors of Film.

945
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, many of them. Oh oh, the color grading

946
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 5: on this film. I could talk about this. I mean,

947
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 5: this has nothing to do anything, but this is the

948
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 5: best looking digital film I have seen, maybe since Zodiac,

949
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 5: which I feel like that's the greatest hint for a

950
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 5: moment of all is making digital film look good.

951
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it is a pretty cool looking film.

952
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 5: It seems like it's antiseptic, but it's crisp at the

953
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 5: same time. It has all these dull, muted colors, but

954
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 5: they still seem very sharp and very not washed out.

955
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 5: It's good.

956
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: It looks like. Yeah. Well, that's the thing about David

957
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 3: Fincher generally, it's like he does these digital He will

958
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: do these films digitally and prove that it could be

959
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 3: done really really well, and you're like, great, why can't

960
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 3: anyone else do that?

961
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 5: It makes drabness look good? Yeah, you have to, I

962
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 5: guess that's the idea. You have to like do something

963
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 5: with the idea of drabness and then go from this.

964
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, right, exactly exactly. It suits him, It

965
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 3: suits him well. Is his subject matter.

966
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 6: I have nothing to say about the idea of drabness,

967
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 6: but to steer us back to connections, Yes, I want

968
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,919
Speaker 6: to bring up something that I found interesting in both

969
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 6: of these movies. Although we could also talk about the

970
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 6: Fincher inspirations and just how maybe a straight line between

971
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 6: Silence and the Lambs to Seven to this movie in

972
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 6: terms of griminess, the point that I wanted to make

973
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 6: was jumping off something Scott had said about just like

974
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 6: the emotion that we see in the women in these films.

975
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 6: I think one kind of strong comparison between the both

976
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 6: of them that just struck me as really interesting is

977
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 6: like Starling in addition to being a woman's woman in

978
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 6: a man's world, is not coming across. I guess we

979
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 6: talked about this a little in terms of she is

980
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 6: not a strong female character TM.

981
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 5: She doesn't have Trinity syndrome.

982
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, she doesn't have Trinity syndrome, but I mean in

983
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 6: the narrative sense, but also in the you know, she

984
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 6: has emotions, and like the moment where she breaks down

985
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 6: outside the parking lot after seeing lecture and more so

986
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 6: after you know makes gesture, She's traumatized and she breaks

987
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 6: down and weeps, and then Demi cuts directly from her

988
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 6: weeping at the car to an extreme close up of

989
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 6: her face as she's on the firing range firerygun. Just

990
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 6: this moment of how she reacts to fear and trauma

991
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 6: and embarrassment is important, but it also doesn't define her,

992
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 6: you know, It's it's not the summary ever.

993
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 5: Very broadcasting is coded, and I just I love.

994
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 6: The fact that she's allowed to be as nuanced as

995
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 6: she is. You know, she's allowed to be scared in

996
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 6: a scary situation, but that doesn't make her weak. She's

997
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 6: allowed to have an emotional response to a lot of

998
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 6: things that go on in the film, and we see

999
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 6: it on her face. Lee, by contrast, I think, also

1000
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 6: has her moments of you know, extreme terror and extreme emotion,

1001
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 6: and we see her coping with it, I think by

1002
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 6: by shutting down, by letting as little out as possible.

1003
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 6: And I do think Mike Monroe brings across that contrast

1004
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 6: of she's not emotionless, she's affecting emotionless in order to

1005
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 6: cope with some of the stressors that she's been She's

1006
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 6: trying to appear professional, which is something we see Startling doing,

1007
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 6: you know, quite a lot, especially when dealing with Lecter,

1008
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 6: kind of like pushing all her emotions down to deal

1009
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 6: with later. But it kind of feels like with Lee,

1010
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 6: that's her whole life.

1011
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think for all of her performed stoicism performed

1012
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 5: or not. The most affecting shot in the movie, and this,

1013
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 5: you know, you can tell because it's been fore grounded

1014
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 5: in a lot of the advertising is her watching something

1015
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 5: very scarring, very upsetting, happen through a window, and her

1016
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 5: reaction of utter terror and horror clasping her hand to

1017
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 5: her mouth over her face, which I've always thought is

1018
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 5: such an overplayed gesture, But when you see this in

1019
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 5: the moment, it feels so sincere and so authentic, and

1020
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 5: you suddenly all of that not fragility, but just that

1021
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 5: vulnerability that you're talking about, the fact that she's not superhuman,

1022
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 5: the fact that that she's not bulletproof, surges right to

1023
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 5: the fore. You see that, and she is as shocked

1024
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 5: and as frightened as we are.

1025
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of the trick to both of

1026
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 3: these films, too, is that Demi and Perkins both established

1027
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 3: such a great deal of intimacy and connection to the

1028
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 3: perspective of their protagonists. We're so close to them, you know,

1029
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 3: we experiencing their terror and their vulnerability right alongside them

1030
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: the whole film. It's unrelenting in that way, and it

1031
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 3: makes it scarier because we feel the film as if

1032
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 3: we are that that those characters, even if even if

1033
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: Clarice is ultimately more easily identifiable, not as much of

1034
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 3: a mystery to us as Mike Monroe.

1035
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 5: Very first shot at long Legs is a long POV shot.

1036
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 5: It's all about putting us into subjective perspectives and making

1037
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 5: us feel as small and confused as a kid.

1038
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and doing the doing the trick of keeping the

1039
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: frame at a kind of a one three, three to

1040
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 3: one ratio before expanding out.

1041
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 5: I love that.

1042
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1043
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 5: I mean the rounded corners remind me of family home movies,

1044
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 5: which is I assume what he's going for that the

1045
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,919
Speaker 5: you know, nostalgia memory, but in a very dark, corrupted way.

1046
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 5: And and also the fact that I'm thinking about connections to Zodiac,

1047
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 5: which is one of the main influences online.

1048
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1049
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 5: The shot through the car window is one of the

1050
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 5: best in the in Zodiac when it lis'en a hurdy

1051
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:47,919
Speaker 5: gurdy man.

1052
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, holy moly, Uh yeah, of course, of course. Yeah.

1053
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 3: The lot of those notes that Longley Legs leaves behind. Again,

1054
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: maybe Perkins isn't into the modern films, but he has

1055
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: certainly seen Zodiac as well. That is a sure thing.

1056
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 6: Speaking of those notes, as Scott, I believe you wanted

1057
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 6: to bring up something regarding a serial killer frontemies, and

1058
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 6: this seems like a terrific end of that.

1059
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 3: I did, but now I don't know what I was

1060
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 3: thinking about.

1061
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 6: I mean, both of these movies have kind of like

1062
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 6: central serial killers who have a visibly unhealthy obsession with

1063
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 6: the protagonist and help her out in written form, among

1064
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 6: other things.

1065
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 5: They're weirdly drawn to each other there, I mean, like

1066
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 5: for the fact that their enemies, they're also obsessed with

1067
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 5: getting close to each other, figuring each other out.

1068
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 3: They are they are, though I guess maybe maybe the

1069
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 3: difference in terms of the threat level is different, even

1070
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 3: though I guess I feel the threat level is for

1071
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: our women is quite high. In both films, there is

1072
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 3: a sense, we feel a certain point that Hannibal Lecter

1073
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: wants Clarice to be alive and so and so that

1074
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 3: that is a little different.

1075
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 5: He says on that phone call at the end, he says,

1076
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 5: the nicest thing you can say to another person, which

1077
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 5: is the world some more interesting place with you in it.

1078
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1079
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 6: And also the nicest person thing you can say to

1080
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 6: a person, which is effectively paraphrased, I have decided not

1081
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 6: to come murder you and eat you.

1082
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. It's a little different with Long Legs,

1083
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 3: because there's a sense of a you know, ever, present

1084
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 3: and encroaching danger, even though there's a collaboration and a

1085
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 3: connection there that that's different. I mean, if you talk

1086
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 3: about if you think about her relationship with her colleagues

1087
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 3: and her relationship with her mother, her relationship with long Legs,

1088
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 3: I don't know who's who's closer, who's closer to who?

1089
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 3: You know, who is she closest with? You know, who's

1090
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:43,479
Speaker 3: to say?

1091
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,280
Speaker 6: With that in mind, here's just a big general question

1092
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 6: I have for you, Lecter helps Starling. I think out

1093
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 6: of a very layered sense of boredom, curiosity like enjoying manipulation,

1094
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 6: enjoying her needing hand, generally not liking a lot of

1095
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 6: the men that he's dealt with, and kind of wanting

1096
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 6: to I mean, he wants to show up Crawford, he

1097
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 6: wants to show up Chilton. He kind of wants this

1098
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 6: like fragile little girl with the cheap shoes on her

1099
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 6: first real case to you know, prove herself like better

1100
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 6: than all of them, you know, with his help in

1101
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 6: a guiding sort of way. But also I just I

1102
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,919
Speaker 6: think I think she intrigues him, and I think he's

1103
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 6: bored and is just playing.

1104
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 5: I hate to say, just like Zendae and challengers. It's

1105
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 5: very very so.

1106
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 6: She just wants to see some good tennis, Charles.

1107
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 5: He just wants to see some good investigation, some.

1108
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 6: Good procedural Why does why does long Legs start feeding

1109
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 6: Lee information? I don't understand his motivation there, Like is

1110
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 6: it a classic serial killer? I dare you to catch me,

1111
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 6: but you're not gonna like what is it? Because of

1112
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 6: their past history. I don't think I understand him well enough,

1113
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 6: and I don't think he wants to get caught, So

1114
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 6: why does he sneaking to her house and feeder or info?

1115
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 5: Clearly I have not considered this until right now. This

1116
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 5: is the first time I have thought about this. But

1117
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe it is similar to what you said

1118
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 5: about there is an element of paternalism I think in Hanniballecter.

1119
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 5: Where as much as he is like the you know,

1120
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 5: debon or older man, he's also the daddy figure. And

1121
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 5: I think there is something in long Legs, you know,

1122
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 5: the literal question of parentage set aside that sees maybe

1123
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 5: having been partnered with Alisha Whitt or maybe having met

1124
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 5: Mike Manrow and she was a little kid. But I

1125
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 5: think he does feel some sort of fatherly, you know,

1126
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 5: feelings about her and maybe doing this as a way

1127
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 5: of getting close to her or helping someone. But you know,

1128
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 5: he could have killed her that first night when he

1129
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 5: tromped into her house and left the note, but he didn't.

1130
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 6: As a sort of parting shot. My husband talks about

1131
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 6: this point in silence and lambs all the time, and

1132
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 6: I think that he would feel a little cheated if

1133
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 6: I didn't bring it up. Both of these movies do

1134
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 6: have the serial killer like leaving notes behind, like leaving

1135
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 6: kind of evidence of what they're communicating to the protagonist,

1136
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 6: and Long Legs kind of gets around the fact that

1137
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 6: this is physical evidence she could show to other people

1138
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 6: by also leaving her a threat, you know, making it

1139
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 6: clear that there will be consequences if she's allowed to

1140
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 6: use the information. She's just not allowed to say where

1141
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 6: it came from. I think that's a really interesting plot

1142
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 6: point that I'm also not sure what he's getting at there.

1143
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 5: It creates a secret between them, they have like a

1144
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 5: little thing to share.

1145
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 3: That's good.

1146
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 6: I like that Lecter also leaves a secret for Starling,

1147
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 6: a note on a map that leads her in a

1148
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 6: particular direction, but it's first of all, it's not just

1149
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 6: a secret for her, you know, she shares it with

1150
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 6: her bestie, the only other woman that we get anything

1151
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 6: much out of. At the Bureau again, Ardelia played by

1152
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 6: Cassie Lemons, still don't get quite to the back Dell test.

1153
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 6: They just talk about Lecter. But that's not the point.

1154
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 6: The point is that he leaves her a note in

1155
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 6: ballpoint pen on the map, and if she was fully

1156
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 6: paying attention and she would realize that means he has

1157
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 6: a pen. And if she had caught that clue, if

1158
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 6: she had realized, since he's definitely not supposed to have

1159
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 6: a pen, that was on the long list of things

1160
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 6: that she had to make sure she absolutely did not do.

1161
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 6: If she had taken the next intuitive step reading that

1162
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 6: note and instead of just trying to parse out what

1163
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 6: it meant, parse out wait, how did he leave me

1164
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 6: this note? A lot of lives might have been saved.

1165
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 5: The medium was the message for him.

1166
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 6: Well later though, the medium was the stabbing. But you know,

1167
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 6: all it all works out in the end in terms

1168
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 6: of ongoing story.

1169
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 3: Okay, well, we'll leave it at that fine point, right

1170
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 3: the silence.

1171
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 6: Of the lamb ballpoint Scott, Oh, he.

1172
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 3: Got me you got me. That was kind of what

1173
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 3: I was going for and didn't get there. The Silence

1174
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 3: of the Lamps is currently streaming on Prime Video, but

1175
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 3: it's leaving soon. You can also rent it anywhere, or

1176
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 3: better still, pick up the Criterion DVD or Blu Ray.

1177
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 3: Long Legs is now in theaters, just delighting people. People

1178
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: can't get enough of mister.

1179
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 5: Longke's fever sweep at America.

1180
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 3: They love it. We'll be right back with your Next

1181
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 3: Picture Show. Finally, it's time to recommend a film or

1182
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 3: film related item that complements this set of episodes. We

1183
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 3: call it your Next Picture Show in the hopes it'll

1184
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 3: put some interesting choices on your radar. Charles, we should

1185
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 3: dig in a little bit to Oz Perkins. One thing

1186
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 3: question I wanted to ask you. I think you for

1187
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 3: quite some time were watching every film on Netflix and

1188
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:41,479
Speaker 3: ranking it.

1189
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 5: For Netflix originals, not every film on Netflix, only the

1190
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 5: ones Netflix was.

1191
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 3: Was I'm a Pretty Thing one of those? Or was it?

1192
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 5: It was? This was for a long time when people

1193
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 5: are like, well, what are the good Netflix original movies?

1194
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 5: That was one of my go to titles.

1195
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 3: I like that one a lot, so it's pretty decent.

1196
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 3: I think people track down the big list, they would

1197
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 3: find it a pretty solid spot.

1198
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 5: That's got to be like top thirty, top twenty five.

1199
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so that's really worth checking out. And it's

1200
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 3: another piece that if you like long legs, I think

1201
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 3: you probably dig a lot of this. This one. It's brief,

1202
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 3: it's only in a nice hour in twenty nine minutes,

1203
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 3: very atmospheric, stars Ruth Wilson as a young nurse who

1204
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 3: takes care of this elderly author who's like upstairs somewhere

1205
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 3: in this house that is haunted. Ruth Wilson is just

1206
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 3: such a fascinating actress, and I think Perkins kind of

1207
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 3: it knows the casting is a big part of what

1208
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 3: makes the film so affecting effective. I should say I

1209
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 3: remember her really. The first impression she made on me

1210
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 3: was in that show Luther, the BBC show with Eaters Elba,

1211
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 3: where she's kind of a serial killer in that or

1212
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 3: a bad I think a serial clear on that. And

1213
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 3: there's something just so unique and unsettling about her presence.

1214
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 3: And then this movie, which again I think is designed

1215
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 3: to potentially frustrate your normy viewer, your casual Netflix viewer,

1216
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 3: but does have that great atmosphere and a real sense

1217
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 3: that this is a filmmaker who kind of knows his material,

1218
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 3: knows previous films, knows the horror genres, kind of deconstructing

1219
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 3: it before your eyes.

1220
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean to that same point. To continue the

1221
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 5: Oz Perkins hype train. I was a really big fan

1222
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 5: of his last feature, which is called Gretelin Hansel and

1223
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,919
Speaker 5: is a retelling of the old fairy tale, but as

1224
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 5: the title would suggest, womanhood and honestly like feminism in

1225
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 5: a very formally codified way, is a really big part

1226
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 5: of it. You see Gretelin Hansel going through the woods,

1227
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 5: they run into the old Witch, who's played by the

1228
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 5: great Alice Kriege, really terrific performance. And the conflict that

1229
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 5: it ultimately comes down to is between Gretel and the Witch.

1230
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 5: The Witch who is a sort of militant second wave

1231
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 5: Valerie Solanas scum type feminist who is like, you need

1232
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 5: to kill your little brother because as a man, he

1233
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 5: is the enemy, and these are absolute lines. And then

1234
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 5: you've got like third wave Gretel who's like, well, I

1235
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 5: think there's more nuanced to the situation than that. I

1236
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 5: love this little boy. He's very dear to me. It's

1237
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 5: obviously played with more intelligence that I'm describing it right now,

1238
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 5: but these sort of internecine conflicts between women, which is

1239
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 5: translated into witchcraft and witchery. It's another example of taking

1240
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 5: a really specific subset of horror where I'm the pretty

1241
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 5: thing that lives in the house as a haunted house movie,

1242
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 5: Gretelin Hansel's Full Horror and Long Legs a serial killer.

1243
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 5: Gredelin Hansel again really clever. Just like I guess I

1244
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 5: was Sounds of Lambs, He's doing the smart version of

1245
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 5: every choice that he could possibly make.

1246
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 6: I feel like I'm just not on Oz Perkins's wavelength

1247
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 6: because I you know, I I've seen the black Coat's Daughter,

1248
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 6: I've seen i Am the pretty thing. I've seen Gretelin Hansel,

1249
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 6: and I had the same sort of issues with all

1250
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 6: of them that I had with leg Long Legs, just

1251
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 6: in terms of I just want more here, like I

1252
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 6: want I want more of a sense of who these

1253
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 6: characters are with this world is or what's going on.

1254
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 6: Maybe he's just too elusive or allusive for me, but

1255
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 6: I'm looking at.

1256
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 3: And elusive.

1257
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 5: Use your use your allusion.

1258
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 6: That is what I'm saying. But I I'm looking on

1259
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 6: a letterbox here and to sort of remind myself of

1260
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 6: how I responded to these films. And I just want

1261
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 6: to note that, you know, frequent a fan of The

1262
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 6: Avy Club and The Dissolve, Craig J. Clark has a review,

1263
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 6: a letterboxed review of Gretel and Hansel that starts a

1264
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 6: film that asks what of Hansel and Gretel? But in

1265
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 6: alphabetical order.

1266
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: That's kind of the classic. That's kind of the classic

1267
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 3: letterbox review.

1268
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 5: Just that's what letterbox is for. We should not be

1269
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 5: giving away the good stuff for free.

1270
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 3: A beautiful one line quip.

1271
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 6: Oh, I mean there's more to it. That's just that's

1272
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 6: the part that I really enjoyed.

1273
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 3: That's the throat clear.

1274
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 5: That's how you write a lead right there.

1275
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it. I like it. So, you know,

1276
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 3: check out the work of Osburgers or don't.

1277
01:04:58,400 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 5: Find out find out for yourself.

1278
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 3: You're exactly fine, exactly.

1279
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 6: I will say all of these movies are beautiful, visually beautiful,

1280
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 6: Gironel and Hansel, and in particular, like, I love this aesthetic,

1281
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 6: and maybe that's why it bugs me that I just

1282
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 6: don't feel there's there's enough story nuance because I want

1283
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 6: to spend a lot of time in this cinematic world.

1284
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 6: It's it's gorgeous, Like he just he has a real eye.

1285
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 6: The compositions are are great, like the realizations of the

1286
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 6: world are fantastic. Maybe I just want to see him

1287
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 6: him an Arioster. I just want to see them like

1288
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 6: directing other people's work and focusing on like this level

1289
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 6: of what art.

1290
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 3: What do we do with Ariosta right now? What do

1291
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 3: we do it? Just saying oh my god, heresy? All right, Well,

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01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 3: that's it for this edition of the Next Picture Show,

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01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 3: but we'll be back next week. For now, we welcome

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01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 3: your feedback on the Silence of the Lambs, Long Legs,

1295
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 3: and anything else film with related you'd like to talk about.

1296
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 3: Email us at comments at Next Picture Show dot net,

1297
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:58,919
Speaker 3: or leave us a voicemail at seven seven three two

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01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 3: three four nine three zero. Before we close out this

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01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 3: week's episode, where can we find everyone these days?

1300
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 6: Tasha Robinson, Well, I have a little bit of news.

1301
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 6: I think this is the first podcast since this happened.

1302
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 6: I'm still up to Polygon, but I have been promoted.

1303
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 6: I'm now the entertainment editor at Polygon dot com. I

1304
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 6: am still writing there although well, we'll see if I

1305
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 6: continue to have time to write given the given the

1306
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 6: expanded duties that I am facing. But that's that's still

1307
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 6: where you can find my writing entertainment editor at Polygon

1308
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 6: dot Com. I am on Blue Sky at Tasha Robinson.

1309
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 6: I'm on Letterbox, which I don't keep up very well

1310
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 6: at Tasha Robinson. And looking back on my Oz Perkins

1311
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 6: reviews is a great reminder that I need to catch

1312
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 6: up and log a bunch of stuff. What about you, Charles,

1313
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 6: written any books lately?

1314
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean nothing, no breaking news on that front.

1315
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 5: Most of the freelance I do can be found in

1316
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 5: the pages of The Guardian. That's where I'm at mostly

1317
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 5: these days. And you can find all of my best

1318
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 5: work of all on Twitter or ex if you're a

1319
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 5: dorkt at into the crevass and my username display name

1320
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 5: is my name Charles Promesco, easy to find. And so yeah,

1321
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 5: I wrote a little something about long legs and about

1322
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 5: the personal connections and the family subtext of Oz Perkins's backstory.

1323
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 5: That's at The Guardian if you'd like to read that.

1324
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 5: That's tremaine to what we're doing here.

1325
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, and any books, Oh.

1326
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, I mean one more. Yeah, I guess this

1327
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 5: is the last time I wrote.

1328
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 3: A book.

1329
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 5: Came out last year. It's really good. It's called The

1330
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 5: Colors of Film, The Story of Cinema and fifty pallets.

1331
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 5: It's lovely, it's pleasing to the eye. It looks great

1332
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 5: on a coffee table. You can put it next. I've

1333
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 5: heard it goes very well in the bathroom. It's very

1334
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 5: modular book. You can read like three minutes of it

1335
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 5: and then put it back down, so it's great for

1336
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 5: the toilet. I'm proud of it. I think it's I

1337
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 5: think it's okay.

1338
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. The publisher at no point said Charles, we can't

1339
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 3: afford the color here. We have to go. We can't

1340
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 3: publish this color. Do this in black and white.

1341
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 5: I mean, I am very I'm really pleased to say.

1342
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 5: You know, your friend and mine, Mike Dangelo, who is

1343
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 5: color blind, says he still got a lot out of

1344
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 5: it because one of the things the book includes is

1345
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 5: specific pantone codes that you can look up, and I

1346
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 5: guess even within color blindness, you can start to see

1347
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 5: difference there and consistency there, and you can get context

1348
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 5: for that. I was really surprised and pleased to hear

1349
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 5: that that's so great.

1350
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 3: I love it. As for myself, you can find me

1351
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:24,879
Speaker 3: on Blue Sky and also on X at Scott Underscore

1352
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 3: Tobias on X at Scott Tobias with no underscore on

1353
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 3: Blue Sky. You can find my work primarily or at

1354
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 3: least half of it, on The Reveal, which is the

1355
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 3: newsletter I write with Keith Phipps's Thereveal dot substack dot com.

1356
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 3: You can also find my work in New York Times

1357
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 3: and Vulture, The Guardian other fine publications. As for our

1358
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 3: absent co hosts, Keith is in league with me at

1359
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 3: The Reveal. He's mostly at Blue Sky social media wise

1360
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 3: at k Phipps three thousand, and you can also find

1361
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 3: his work in Vulture, TV Guide, The Ring or another

1362
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 3: find publications. Genvief Cooski, who will mostly post pictures over

1363
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,679
Speaker 3: dog and Garden on Instagram. She is the senior TV

1364
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 3: editor at Vulture. You can stay updated on the Next

1365
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 3: Picture Show at Next Picture Show dot net and on

1366
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 3: Blue Sky at the Next Picture Show. Get bonus content

1367
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 3: and open discussion at Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show,

1368
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 3: and as always, we appreciate your ratings and reviews. On

1369
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 3: Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the

1370
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 3: show special thanks again to Charles here for joining us.

1371
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 3: Charles first time, but it was Hopefully we're going to

1372
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 3: have you on again.

1373
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 5: This is great first time longtime. I'm one of those.

1374
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 5: I'm a first time long time and I can't wait

1375
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 5: to come back.

1376
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 3: I loved it. This is great. Thanks to Dan the

1377
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 3: Big Jakes for his assistants producing this podcast. The Next

1378
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 3: Picture Show is proud to be part of the Film

1379
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 3: Spotting family of podcasts. Please tune in next time

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01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 2: Y