Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done, Yay, that's messed up in SVU podcast Coming
Speaker 3: to you fast from I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 4: My name is Lisa. I'm a host.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm the other host. My name is Kara. What
Speaker 4: can we get you?
Speaker 1: We are a podcast about Law and Order SVU the
Speaker 1: true crimes that the episodes are based on. And we
Speaker 1: like to talk to guests sometimes in our episodes, and
Speaker 1: first I like to catch up in chat.
Speaker 4: And we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back in the like just the recent time machine,
Speaker 1: the smaller time machine. We were or I was away
Speaker 1: for like two and a half weeks. We were on
Speaker 1: a little VACA and now we're back. But I was
Speaker 1: happy that on my VAK I got to see Lisa
Speaker 1: in person. I was on the East Coast.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't say enough Colin Klank to have
Speaker 2: a ledge in the deep end of the pool. In
Speaker 2: the pool, I've been talking about it NonStop. I've never
Speaker 2: seen anything like it. But what a blessing to be
Speaker 2: able to sit on a ledge in the deep end
Speaker 2: with a cocktail on the pool.
Speaker 4: I can't. I love the ledge. I love the ledge.
Speaker 1: I also love it because, like Rosie wants me to
Speaker 1: swimmer to the deep end sometimes, and she can swim,
Speaker 1: but if she tries to grab onto me, it's like
Speaker 1: before she drones me.
Speaker 4: I have the ledge, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I've anything like it.
Speaker 2: So that's a cool invention that I hope to see,
Speaker 2: you know, infiltrate the systems. I'm actually kind of a trendsetter.
Speaker 2: So I had Handy Andy come to town, to my house,
Speaker 2: not to town.
Speaker 4: I don't know why I'm speaking like this, but he
Speaker 4: hung up all my.
Speaker 2: Rt a class act like very good was able to
Speaker 2: do some tough pieces in the brick. But we put
Speaker 2: one of my art pieces in the fireplace, like I
Speaker 2: have non working fire buses.
Speaker 4: So it's hanging on the.
Speaker 2: Back of the fireplace which is painted black, and it's
Speaker 2: this pink Damien Davis piece, and I'm like, I've never
Speaker 2: seen that before. Like that's fucking cool that I have
Speaker 2: an innovative way to hang art. So I just I
Speaker 2: feel really cool and chic about that because everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 2: put candles there. I had toys in there, but whatever.
Speaker 2: But no, I'm gonna have a fucking actual art piece.
Speaker 2: Feels cool. Yeah, that's really fucking cool.
Speaker 1: I love that, cause every fireplace in New York City
Speaker 1: is pointless, like they don't work, so like, yeah, turned
Speaker 1: it into a little display. I was in the woods
Speaker 1: of Vermont for a week. That was fun as well.
Speaker 1: Had a great time with the kids. Rosie got to
Speaker 1: reunite with her little bff who moved to New Jersey,
Speaker 1: so that was cute.
Speaker 4: They had a little week together.
Speaker 1: Just for those of you that aren't worried or have
Speaker 1: been messaging me about the potty training journey, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I will just update you that Oscar did
Speaker 1: poop his pants every single day of this vacation.
Speaker 4: So we are exactly where I left you. It's going on.
Speaker 1: He's very smart and he's very like articulate, and I'm
Speaker 1: kind of like, can you just poop in the potty?
Speaker 1: Can you put it where you put your pee? And
Speaker 1: he goes, I can't, it's not I can't do that.
Speaker 1: And he says a lot of crazy stuff about like
Speaker 1: I think he's fearful because the thing is he wears
Speaker 1: a pull up every night. If he really had to poop,
Speaker 1: he just poop in the pull up. He doesn't, he's
Speaker 1: scared to do it in the pot There's something going on.
Speaker 1: So we just have to get him over this roadblock,
Speaker 1: and we will and we will. There is a potty
Speaker 1: training specialist that's in the mom group. But I don't
Speaker 1: want to spend the money. So he won't shit in
Speaker 1: the pull ups. He'll only shit in his underwear. And
Speaker 1: my mom keeps going offer him a pull up, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, Mom, that's not it. He wears a pull
Speaker 1: up at night. He doesn't like, he'll he'll hold it
Speaker 1: in for like three days where he could easily at night,
Speaker 1: be like and let it go. Yeah, okay, I get that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I won't say every single day. He
Speaker 1: held it in for three days and then we had
Speaker 1: a nice time, you know, we had it. But then
Speaker 1: it's like the whole time, you're worried. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: and Colin, you know we're talking about Colin. My brother
Speaker 1: has lovely pool. Colin is you know, not a parent,
Speaker 1: and it's just like, okay, so he's not gonna poop
Speaker 1: in the pool, right, And I'm like, Colin, I swear
Speaker 1: to God on everything, I'm not gonna let him poop
Speaker 1: in your pool, like I will not, like, don't worry
Speaker 1: so and he hasn't.
Speaker 4: He's never done that in his life. Thank god.
Speaker 1: I've never been the source of a code brown but
Speaker 1: he Yeah, we're still working on it. So I appreciate
Speaker 1: all your messages and so of solidarity. A lot of
Speaker 1: you have messaged me that you're in a similar kind
Speaker 1: of hell. And I feel like this is the last hump.
Speaker 1: Once we get over this, the rest of parenting's gonna
Speaker 1: be smooth sailing. I don't even care what happens after
Speaker 1: that drug habit don't care. Uh, this is the worst
Speaker 1: thing that could possibly be. And I'm kidding obviously, but.
Speaker 2: Wait, what other activities besides shitting his pants did the
Speaker 2: kids do at camp?
Speaker 4: What are the hell?
Speaker 1: Well, Rosie loved like tried to do archery. She gets
Speaker 1: a little bit frustrated because she can't do archery with
Speaker 1: like the bows are huge, Like they're big, but they
Speaker 1: give them the smallest one, but they're too big for
Speaker 1: She's a five year old. And so she did a
Speaker 1: little bit of that, a lot of arts and crafts.
Speaker 1: You know, pearlar beads. You put them on like a thing,
Speaker 1: and then you you iron it and they they mold together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm talking about I knew that from the moment
Speaker 2: you said it. I was a big glad girl. Oh okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Rosie in the art barn Uh started to make a
Speaker 1: the flag of China. Basically, I don't know what else
Speaker 1: to say. She was doing a pearlar beads of the
Speaker 1: flag of China and I was like why.
Speaker 4: She was like, I just like it. It's red with
Speaker 4: the gold stars.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I mean, I guess they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna own us all it one day, so you
Speaker 1: might as well gonna jump on it, Rosie. And then
Speaker 1: she mostly just played with her friends. It was a
Speaker 1: little bit of a rainy week. We got some beautiful
Speaker 1: days though she wasn't. She did a little bit of
Speaker 1: lake swimming, but you know, she's a she's an uppity
Speaker 1: California bitch, and she doesn't want to go into like water.
Speaker 4: She can't see the bottom.
Speaker 1: You know, she did some, but she the first day
Speaker 1: she really tried to take her swim test and she's
Speaker 1: a great swimmer, but the swim test is hard, like
Speaker 1: you have to do a full length and back and
Speaker 1: then you have to tread for two minutes. And that's
Speaker 1: just not the kind of swimming she does. Like she
Speaker 1: does flipping around, flopping, you know, doing whatever she wants.
Speaker 1: And she I was like, I think we should wait
Speaker 1: till you're six, and she was like, I'm gonna try it.
Speaker 1: And she tried it. She gave up halfway through. It
Speaker 1: didn't work.
Speaker 2: But did she know did she give up and go yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm out, or did she have a full meltdown.
Speaker 1: No, no meltdown. She just goes, I can't do this.
Speaker 1: I want to get out, and so she got out.
Speaker 1: We'll do it next year.
Speaker 2: I saw a kid having a meltdown during a swim
Speaker 2: test when I was home in Skokie.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, girl, you're not right. No you're
Speaker 2: not gonna get past because you're crying more, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If it was in a pool, I really think she
Speaker 1: could have done it. Just the water makes her too nervous,
Speaker 1: the dark water. But we had a blast. We had
Speaker 1: a really great time. A lot of my friends were there.
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of old friends. It was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. I went to the Sunset Park pool giant.
Speaker 1: I felt like I was in the hype like in
Speaker 1: the musicals. It was the biggest public pool I'd ever
Speaker 1: been into.
Speaker 2: But New York hettie pools are such there's so many rules.
Speaker 2: It's like you everything needs to be in a locker.
Speaker 2: They watch you shower before you go in. You cannot
Speaker 2: bring a newspaper out there. You can have your phone anything,
Speaker 2: like there was an announcement going we see you with
Speaker 2: your phone and if you do not put it in
Speaker 2: your locker right now, you will be asked to leave.
Speaker 2: Like you cannot have anything but sunblock, a towel, sandals,
Speaker 2: you can't even you have to go out in your
Speaker 2: bathing suit and you can have I brought my goggles.
Speaker 4: Wait what, let's back up to the watching you shower.
Speaker 2: What do you mean, like now you have to sprits,
Speaker 2: you have to get you have to wet yourself in
Speaker 2: the shower.
Speaker 4: You know that's always the rule. Oh, in your suit,
Speaker 4: in your suit, in your suit.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, they're not there's not like
Speaker 1: a weird thing where they're like watching.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this isn't you know the concentration camp.
Speaker 3: No, well I mean you took there but yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: the you're in your suit.
Speaker 4: They do not strip you naked. They do not cavity.
Speaker 1: So for some reason I was like, wait, what, like
Speaker 1: are they trying to make sure people don't have like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: I was thinking.
Speaker 4: My mind just went to naked shower watching. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It is a high immigrant area, so it was interesting
Speaker 2: to watch, like the teens staff trying to explain you
Speaker 2: have to have a lock to an elderly man who
Speaker 2: is not really speaking English and find out the teens
Speaker 2: are like just go like.
Speaker 4: They couldn't handle.
Speaker 2: I like being like seeing the culture of elderly people
Speaker 2: who can't speak English and teens with summer jobs. I
Speaker 2: really like that coinciding in front of my face, Like
Speaker 2: that was pretty exciting to see.
Speaker 1: I took a kid to a public pool in New
Speaker 1: York once, but it was pretty like it was like
Speaker 1: a normal size. But this one you're talking about, and
Speaker 1: this one that in the Heights scene is filmed in,
Speaker 1: which is called the high Bridge Pool in Washington Heights.
Speaker 2: These are nuts. They're huge, huge for the whole time.
Speaker 2: I felt like I was in sand lot, like I
Speaker 2: was ready. Wow, oh I care. I saw the movies
Speaker 2: that I've wanted to see, you know, with our vacation time.
Speaker 2: So yes, I saw Inside Out too, and I saw
Speaker 2: Long Legs.
Speaker 4: Okay, thoughts and prayers.
Speaker 2: And then I read an article about Long Legs which
Speaker 2: I really liked on Vulture. But then I came home
Speaker 2: and watched this movie called Villains, and the actress from
Speaker 2: Long Legs is in it, and it's like a fully
Speaker 2: different person. I could not tell it all because at
Speaker 2: the end of Villains, I go, this girl's good, like
Speaker 2: this was exciting, googled it same woman, and I go,
Speaker 2: I just watched you in the same week, Like, how
Speaker 2: do I not know scream queen?
Speaker 4: Wait?
Speaker 2: Have you seen it follows? Yes, we've talked about it
Speaker 2: on here. Yeah we did.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm scarious movie I've ever seen. She's in that, right, yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, Okay, Wait,
Speaker 3: so I'm gonna watch that.
Speaker 4: I think you're.
Speaker 2: Not gonna get You're not gonna.
Speaker 4: Get through it.
Speaker 2: I bet you want say, I don't even think you'll
Speaker 2: even make it a half hour.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Now you're fucking you're fucking waving a red
Speaker 1: flag in front of me right now.
Speaker 4: You without I don't think you'll even last.
Speaker 2: I don't think you'll last because I've tried to rewatch
Speaker 2: and can't finish it again.
Speaker 1: But oh my god, Okay, that's so scary. Jared always goes,
Speaker 1: I think you'll like it. It's not super gory, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: but it's not cory.
Speaker 2: It's not gory. It's tense. It's just very tense. Like
Speaker 2: I'm on edge. I am on edge, and I don't like,
Speaker 2: I can't even handle it. There are movies where like
Speaker 2: even in Bridesmaid it's like some of us on like
Speaker 2: the tensions too much for me, honestly. Yeah, like I
Speaker 2: don't like where I'm like, they're not gonna speak.
Speaker 4: I'm like I can't.
Speaker 1: Oh, kid, I need to know what you thought about
Speaker 1: those two movies though. Give me your ratings. Well Inside
Speaker 1: Out too, I enjoyed thoroughly.
Speaker 2: The kid pack at the movie theater is incredible at
Speaker 2: AMC and Union Square. Like usually when you get one
Speaker 2: of those kid boxes, you know, it's like a flat
Speaker 2: box and so the popcorn is just like, loosen this box,
Speaker 2: do you know have you ever gotten a kid pack?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: You always get this, No, but I know I got
Speaker 2: the idea. But you know, they're like a flat box,
Speaker 2: so this they aren't. It's a small little bag of
Speaker 2: popcorn and a drink, and for two dollars more you
Speaker 2: can get a real candy.
Speaker 4: And then the box all closes.
Speaker 2: Because in my head, I go, great, I'm gonna get
Speaker 2: this kid's pack and then I'm gonna fucking go to
Speaker 2: the bathroom with it.
Speaker 4: This sucks.
Speaker 2: And it was all closed and in this little bag,
Speaker 2: and I'd never seen a kid pack so good. I
Speaker 2: love it. I did need innovation. I needed more soda.
Speaker 2: I have to. I have to graduate from the kid pack.
Speaker 2: But for under ten dollars, I got a candy, a
Speaker 2: small popcorn, and a small drink. Like that kind of
Speaker 2: is unheard of. Like I do feel like I'm cracking
Speaker 2: some kind of code. Yeah, but anyway, I tell them
Speaker 2: light on the ice about the movie. Okay, so I
Speaker 2: loved it, but it's the exact same movie. It's like, uh, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't have control of her brain anymore. We're in
Speaker 2: this other thing and now we have to come back.
Speaker 2: Like it is the exact same movie. But I obviously,
Speaker 2: you know, I enjoyed it. I like sadness being a
Speaker 2: little hero. I liked the new Kid. I liked it.
Speaker 2: But it's it's the same but worse.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I thought it was like.
Speaker 1: The same but not as good and but not bad
Speaker 1: but so good, you know, not as good like I mean,
Speaker 1: I cried in Inside Out and then this one I
Speaker 1: was like, I didn'taid. I was also like running after Oscar,
Speaker 1: so I was not as focused, but I didn't.
Speaker 4: Cried inside Out too.
Speaker 2: But my another friend was like, oh, I cried in
Speaker 2: that movie, and I knew the exact moment, like the
Speaker 2: moment something happened. I go, this is where this bitch
Speaker 2: was crying. And I called her. I go, did you
Speaker 2: cry here? She goes, yeah, I go, I knew it,
Speaker 2: And it was just the purse. It was the moment
Speaker 2: where it's like maybe when you grow up, you just
Speaker 2: don't have joy in your life.
Speaker 4: And that made her cry.
Speaker 2: Oh even though our friend is doing great, it's fine,
Speaker 2: she'll be okay.
Speaker 1: Also, I don't have like a ton of anxiety. That's
Speaker 1: not like a plight of mine. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people really that really resonated with how anxiety
Speaker 1: takes over.
Speaker 4: All your other emotions.
Speaker 2: You don't think being a control freak is a manifestation
Speaker 2: of some sort of anxiety.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure probably, But I don't think I have
Speaker 1: like I guess I don't have like chronic anxiety. I
Speaker 1: don't have like you know. I'm not medicated for my
Speaker 1: anxiety or anything like that. You know, I think the
Speaker 1: anxiety is a huge problem for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I have I have it to that level.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right, No people have felt seeing for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're sitting here telling me I've got a problem,
Speaker 1: So I guess I better look in the mirror.
Speaker 2: No, I just I assume if you want to control things,
Speaker 2: you are scared of something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no I well, I'm not like sitting here
Speaker 1: being like I have no fears. I'm fearless, like I
Speaker 1: obviously have fear. It's like, I don't think anxiety like
Speaker 1: ruins my no, but it runs like other emotions.
Speaker 2: It helped me realize psycho comedians that we know or
Speaker 2: like people in our business because of like with Riley
Speaker 2: and Hockey, like suddenly when she loses her inner being
Speaker 2: and moral compass. She becomes someone that's like, if I'm
Speaker 2: good at hockey, I will have friends and I have
Speaker 2: to do anything I need to do to get good
Speaker 2: at hockey.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, I know psychopaths like this, I definitely do.
Speaker 2: And then Long Legs was so we but I liked
Speaker 2: that it was spooky.
Speaker 4: I'm like into it.
Speaker 2: It was Yellow Jacket Sea where you're like you think
Speaker 2: it's one thing and then it's actually something else, Like
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that many cop or like detective things
Speaker 2: where at the end it is just spooky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we should be yeah, like we should
Speaker 1: be able to talk about it now because it's so
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen Long Lives and you want to
Speaker 1: watch it fast forward, it's been out for months, but
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna give my review and there will be
Speaker 1: some spoilers.
Speaker 4: I just thought it was so good.
Speaker 1: Leading up to the end, and then because the the
Speaker 1: cinematography is amazing, the acting is good, like the vibe
Speaker 1: throughout the first half, I'm like, I am scared.
Speaker 4: I'm on the edge of my seat, what's happening.
Speaker 1: And then just at the end, it's just like, Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you the story of everything that's happening,
Speaker 1: and then it's just an explanation at the end, Like
Speaker 1: the end of the movie is a nothing burger, and
Speaker 1: that bothered me, Like it the end, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: haunted doll, Like I don't know, it's just like I
Speaker 1: hated the end.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that I did screenshot in
Speaker 2: the Vulture article and it's an oz good quote, like
Speaker 2: the creator of it, but he was saying how the
Speaker 2: Devil's always behind her, and there's actually like Vulture has
Speaker 2: a series where there's the Devil is hidden in the
Speaker 2: background of all of these scenes. So that's kind of cool,
Speaker 2: Like you have to look at these photos because one
Speaker 2: you really really have to look, like it's not clear,
Speaker 2: but you see the devil everywhere, and the devil is
Speaker 2: guiding her. And basically what the Vulture article said was
Speaker 2: because the devil wants the worst thing possible, and her
Speaker 2: shooting her mother dead is the worst thing you can do, imagine,
Speaker 2: and that's why he lettered all of it. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like it's just like the devil wants to do
Speaker 2: devilish things, right, and there's not much more to it.
Speaker 2: It's just like demonic and so because we always are
Speaker 2: trying to find purpose and like why people are bad,
Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't know. The Devil's just bad
Speaker 2: and he wants it to be worse. Some people want
Speaker 2: to be Ursula, honey, you know, yeah, I just yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess, like no, but it was weird. I hated
Speaker 2: it the devil.
Speaker 1: I mean also like also, like Nick Cage is terrifying
Speaker 1: in it, Like that opening scene is so scary.
Speaker 2: Okay, he's screamed, I screamed, I shot But the man,
Speaker 2: it's so goofy.
Speaker 4: It's so goofy.
Speaker 1: Then yes, why are we then in his house watching
Speaker 1: him by himself? Why are we watching him drive his car?
Speaker 1: Because it's in the basement. He's he lives in the basement.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that of the mom's house.
Speaker 3: Oh he does. That's what I got from this vulture
Speaker 3: when I don't understand. Oh I didn't get that.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean. I don't get a lot of things,
Speaker 2: like True Detective. I remember when I watched that, I
Speaker 2: had to read every article and RecA I just don't
Speaker 2: get things. So that he lives in the mom's basement
Speaker 2: and that's why the bug comes out and she can't
Speaker 2: get into it and does it and she's like, what's
Speaker 2: down here?
Speaker 4: And he's living there.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't even put that together, so I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: I didn't get that. But like even watching him drive
Speaker 1: his car, it's like, let's leave him like this mysterious figure,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't really want there to be alone time
Speaker 1: with him. And then you know, Nick Cage is just
Speaker 1: fucking it's camp I mean, he's like camping it up
Speaker 1: with this character. Like, but there was a lot I
Speaker 1: liked about it, and I found going to watch it enjoyable.
Speaker 1: But I just was like the end was like it's
Speaker 1: it's all like a pop out to me. You know
Speaker 1: some movies it's like, oh, you're just trying to be
Speaker 1: so weird, and it's it's a full like marketing thing,
Speaker 1: like it's so it was so hyped as the scariest
Speaker 1: movie you'll see this year, and da da da, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought I had silence of the
Speaker 1: Lambs vibes at the beginning, like she's this weird little
Speaker 1: weirdo with her mom, and like, you know, I liked it.
Speaker 2: I thought Living City, I don't get why you have
Speaker 2: to be a lone female woman detective in the woods.
Speaker 1: Get a house I know with a neighbor, please living
Speaker 1: oh was living in the middle of nowhere. Get a
Speaker 1: dog or something like Jesus. Also, Blair Underwood SVU Alum
Speaker 1: is all one of the very few cast members.
Speaker 2: I have a huge Oh yeah, Blair Underwood. Of course,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I got so hyped up. We were texting
Speaker 2: about this, but we do have a huge story. So
Speaker 2: I did a show in Connecticut and I'm talking to
Speaker 2: a listener and this is the story. So what's up Connecticut.
Speaker 2: So basically, she's a listener. She's in her car, she's
Speaker 2: listening to our episode Poison, whenever that episode came out
Speaker 2: with Tom Scarett, and we're talking about and this, I
Speaker 2: guess it's a nice time stamp.
Speaker 4: It's when I did Whippets.
Speaker 2: So I'm on, I guess the podcast talking about how
Speaker 2: I love whippets and how I only did it the
Speaker 2: one time. I've not done it since, but I did
Speaker 2: love it and I would do it again. And then
Speaker 2: you start saying, well, no, Colin our neurologist are podcast neurologist.
Speaker 2: He said that he has a patient who is fully
Speaker 2: brain dead. Paralyzed because of his whippet's addiction and how
Speaker 2: dangerous it really is. And this woman in the car
Speaker 2: realizes that her ex husband is Colin's patient and her
Speaker 2: that's who we were talking about. So she's listening to
Speaker 2: our podcast as just a podcast listener. Realizes your brother
Speaker 2: is the doctor of her ex husband who is brain
Speaker 2: dead because of fucking whippets.
Speaker 4: Well that's dark. It is really dark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she she didn't actly, it's the.
Speaker 4: Best thing that's happened to her.
Speaker 2: They got divorced, she has a daughter, she's doing a
Speaker 2: good job, she makes a lot of money. I mean,
Speaker 2: it is sad, of course. She's like, yeah, I saw
Speaker 2: him on OA. She didn't feel like it was a
Speaker 2: hip a violation.
Speaker 1: It's not like my brother gave away any describing details
Speaker 1: of this person.
Speaker 4: But wow, that was in her vibe. That wasn't her
Speaker 4: vibe at all.
Speaker 2: She I got a note hand it's me backstage from
Speaker 2: her and her friend like they were down to talk
Speaker 2: about it. They it honestly like repeating it. It is
Speaker 2: pretty dark, but hanging out with them was not dark.
Speaker 2: So it didn't really like settle with me, okay, but
Speaker 2: it was She's like, yeah, it was like Russia Shana,
Speaker 2: and I see him fucking doing whippets, you know, like
Speaker 2: at their family Russia Shaana. And that's like Steve O,
Speaker 2: like I might do it one more time, but now
Speaker 2: actually I might not because I don't.
Speaker 4: I can't risk it. Like he's never gonna know his child.
Speaker 4: It is sad. It's sad.
Speaker 1: I mean, I really can't see you doing whippets at
Speaker 1: Russia Shana. But yes, I mean you never know. It's
Speaker 1: like it's tough, like it sucks. Yeah, Like the first
Speaker 1: time I ever did ecstasy as it was called back
Speaker 1: in the day, Molly md me, Like I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't do this again. This is like the best
Speaker 1: thing ever, like I you know, like I was definitely
Speaker 1: and I have gone on to do it a couple
Speaker 1: of more times, but very very distance, big distances in between,
Speaker 1: because yeah, you gotta be careful, slippery slope.
Speaker 2: And I had another listener interaction. I went to the
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Cyclones game. But what's amazing was Friendship Bracelet night,
Speaker 2: and so I knew I was gonna get friendship bracelets
Speaker 2: and I made some and like they all say, Brooklyn
Speaker 2: and baseball, but it's because they can't call it Taylor
Speaker 2: Swift night. They played Taylor Swift the whole baseball game.
Speaker 2: Every game on the field was about Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1: Like it was wild. It was so cool, and I
Speaker 1: got just wow. Yeah, and you have the bracelets. Where
Speaker 1: did you get base all like charms? You ordered them
Speaker 1: or you went to do like a bead shop? Now, No,
Speaker 1: it was it was the Cyclones had Friendship bracelet night.
Speaker 1: They they gave us. Oh they had oh cute, Okay,
Speaker 1: they gave us. I thought you meant you made them
Speaker 1: in advance. Okay, I made some as well for the
Speaker 1: friends that came with me. I made Cyclones once, but
Speaker 1: then they gave me for clu. Yeah, because I was like,
Speaker 1: where'd you get baseball charms? You have like a bad
Speaker 1: dealer now, Like, but I do have some new beads.
Speaker 1: I have some new charms. I'm working diligently. I'm making
Speaker 1: a lot. I have like four bead projects happening at
Speaker 1: once at the moment. Next time I come to New York,
Speaker 1: I'm coming to the apartment. Now that I know the
Speaker 1: art is hung, I'm worried that I'm gonna be waiting
Speaker 1: into a pool of friendship bracelets by the time I
Speaker 1: get there.
Speaker 4: So there's SPADs.
Speaker 2: There's loose SPADs everywhere around my apartment. It's the new
Speaker 2: bobby pin. It's the new Bobby pin. Like I'll drop
Speaker 2: a bead and be like, well there, it's the new
Speaker 2: water bottle with one sip left. Oh my god, I'm money.
Speaker 2: They're still around. Wait, hold on, you went to see
Speaker 2: Oh Mary I'm Broadway.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yes, I went to see Oh Mary on Broadway. Very
Speaker 1: fun very funny show.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't really, I just I thought it was great.
Speaker 2: Well, so someone I know comes up to me and
Speaker 2: he goes, I finally met one person who didn't like it.
Speaker 2: And then when they told me who it was, I go, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: this man is in the closet. Of course he doesn't
Speaker 2: like a performance of like full gay absurdity. He'd and
Speaker 2: thought it was cheap or whatever because he's in the
Speaker 2: closet and married to a woman when he's clearly gay.
Speaker 2: And my friends started laughing. But it's like, bro, if
Speaker 2: you're the only person who doesn't like it, it's so
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you who it is so everyone can
Speaker 2: hear you laugh. Okay, yes, okay, I can't wait for
Speaker 2: you to nurse the chot. Are you ready? I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I want to time it perfect. You got the chat up? Okay,
Speaker 2: I got the chat up. I haven't hit Entrea. Okay,
Speaker 2: I hated it. Oh my god, that is so hilarious. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's so oh my.
Speaker 1: God, crazily. I was talking about this person last night. Wow,
Speaker 1: I was talking about this person last night. I saw
Speaker 1: Eddie Redmain on my walk to see Oh Mary. When
Speaker 1: I saw it, Oh, because he's on Broadway too, so
Speaker 1: we saw each other.
Speaker 2: You saw the Danish girl. He probably told us. I
Speaker 2: bet he told his friends too. I saw some woman.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's why. Okay, we I mean, we've
Speaker 2: been gone for so long. Oh, if anyone can help me,
Speaker 2: I guess I'll bring this up. So I have like
Speaker 2: a new one two three, there's like I have a
Speaker 2: new like hook thingy. But outside of keys, what else
Speaker 2: am I hanging on the hooks an umbrella? There's still
Speaker 2: four more hooks left? What are people hanging on their hooks?
Speaker 1: Oh, you'll think of stuff like let's say you're like
Speaker 1: doing a like a gig one.
Speaker 4: Time or something like.
Speaker 1: I don't know, there might be something you need like
Speaker 1: a security pass, like don't forget it every day, you know,
Speaker 1: or like security.
Speaker 4: Yes, I don't know, Like we're not gonna do work
Speaker 4: at the un no.
Speaker 1: You know if you work on like a TV production
Speaker 1: or something like that where there's like past Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Guess who I'm at.
Speaker 2: Someone that's a party planner who does the Vanity Fair
Speaker 2: Oscar party and they're gonna do this.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I said, what's the most expensive party that you plan?
Speaker 1: I bet you peppered them with questions.
Speaker 2: What's the most expensive you asked? I said, what's the
Speaker 2: most expensive event you guys have done? And he said
Speaker 2: the Vanity Fair Oscar party, And all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I went, okay, like we have a convo.
Speaker 4: Go in now. Yeah that's fun. Yeah, that was the threat.
Speaker 4: Get them to come on the pod. We'll do it.
Speaker 2: Oh. Also, thank you to everyone that came to show
Speaker 2: and tell at Union Hall. I'm and I do another
Speaker 2: one in October. Casey is getting mad at us, but
Speaker 2: I it's he's pissed.
Speaker 4: We will not stop talking.
Speaker 1: Every time we say that, though, they send us messages
Speaker 1: that are like tell Casey to shut up, and it's
Speaker 1: like Casey's not really doing anything that bad. It's not
Speaker 1: like he's fuming. He's sitting here grinning with his cute
Speaker 1: baby like he's not mad at us.
Speaker 4: I think he's just like, Wow.
Speaker 1: Every minute you guys ramble about nonsense is more time
Speaker 1: I have to edit to make you sound normal.
Speaker 4: No, but thank you for coming.
Speaker 2: Everyone was so funny and so down the clim and
Speaker 2: I'm doing it again in October, so come to show amazing.
Speaker 1: It was so speaking of thank you, Yes, I would
Speaker 1: hope to come be on be at one on one
Speaker 1: at some point.
Speaker 4: That sounds so fun.
Speaker 1: But if you want to see Lisa Moore, go to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up live dot com. Go to the Lisa's
Speaker 1: website tab that has her link. Treat all her ticket links.
Speaker 1: And if you guys haven't, if you've been living under
Speaker 1: a little pumpkin, we are doing a Spooky season tour.
Speaker 1: We're going to be in Denver on October sixteenth, Phoenix
Speaker 1: on October seventeenth, San Diego on the twentieth, Los Angeles
Speaker 1: on the twenty first, San Francisco on the twenty second,
Speaker 1: and Portland on the twenty third. We're going bing Bang
Speaker 1: bong baby and listen and Lisa's in San Diego the eighteenth, nineteenth,
Speaker 1: doing that before the before we I'm.
Speaker 2: Doing like a many fall winter tour random dates until
Speaker 2: the special drops. So you come to see me, Come
Speaker 2: see me, mostly Toronto. We need Toronto, and that's.
Speaker 4: Gonna be I am.
Speaker 1: We're pretty positive these are going to be our only
Speaker 1: tour dates for the coming fall and winters.
Speaker 4: So we'll see you guys in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: But if you live remotely close to any of these locations,
Speaker 1: come come make the track because this is the only
Speaker 1: all we're offering for twenty twenty four. And yeah, that's
Speaker 1: messed up. Live dot com has all those ticket links.
Speaker 1: Don't Google because people are always telling us like I
Speaker 1: Googled and then I got a I got a bad
Speaker 1: ticket link. I got scammed. Just we have all the
Speaker 1: correct links on our site. And yeah, should we get started.
Speaker 1: We've got a great episode lined up for you.
Speaker 4: Here we go.
Speaker 1: Okay, today we are doing the episode Dearly Beloved from
Speaker 1: season twenty, episode nineteen. This air two days after Rosie's
Speaker 1: birthday April fourth, twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you watch it at the hospital? I don't
Speaker 3: think I watched it at the hospital.
Speaker 1: I probably definitely had it on MYDVR when I got
Speaker 1: home and was probably watching it while I dealt with
Speaker 1: the new days of motherhood. And this episode starts with
Speaker 1: the song Dreams by Beck playing.
Speaker 4: I don't know that off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: I just watched with the captions on, and you know,
Speaker 1: the show doesn't often pay for known music, but when
Speaker 1: they do, it's music by a scientologist.
Speaker 4: And so, I mean Beck is a scientologist. I didn't
Speaker 4: know that well.
Speaker 1: I've always heard he was a scientologist, but now I'm
Speaker 1: now I'm googling it and I'm seeing like a Daily
Speaker 1: Beast article from twenty nineteen claiming saying Beck claims he
Speaker 1: was never a scientologist, but Lea Remeni and others call
Speaker 1: bs so I could be one of those things where
Speaker 1: he grew up in it, but like now as an adult,
Speaker 1: he doesn't.
Speaker 4: He doesn't take it. And I like Beck's music. I'm not.
Speaker 4: I was just kind of trying to make a joke.
Speaker 1: But you know, Mike Rinder famously from the Scientology show
Speaker 1: that Lea Remeni made and her they don't think they were, Like,
Speaker 1: he's acting like he was never a scientologist, but like
Speaker 1: that's because now he's getting labeled like he's never gotten
Speaker 1: attack like we did and blah blah blah. So Remedie says,
Speaker 1: pussy move, you can.
Speaker 4: Quote me on that. What are you gonna do? I'm
Speaker 4: not going to fight le A Remedy on anything. Okay.
Speaker 1: So the groom is like, you know, the guy is
Speaker 1: polishing his shoes, buttons, cuffs, getting his boat tie on.
Speaker 4: It's definitely a wedding. And this groom is like, there's
Speaker 4: a crease in my collar? Are my eyebrows too bushy?
Speaker 1: And I guess I just like really never considered a
Speaker 1: groom ever caring that much. Like I always assume groom's
Speaker 1: just like strapped on that cumber bund and got out there.
Speaker 1: But as this guy seems very invested, he gets a
Speaker 1: call from an unknown number and he can't believe someone
Speaker 1: is calling him on his special day. But it could
Speaker 1: be a patient. It's he's a shrink. So we cut
Speaker 1: to the gals and the bridal suite and they seem
Speaker 1: much more chill, like one of them is like I
Speaker 1: have weed and like they're drinking champagne. The vibe is upbeat,
Speaker 1: and the bride goes, I'm getting married today, and if
Speaker 1: I'm lucky pregnant tonight and I'm like, oof, queen, it's
Speaker 1: your day, but not my not on my list of
Speaker 1: goals for my wedding night. Okay, So then the bride's
Speaker 1: dad walks her down the aisle. The beck is still playing.
Speaker 1: The wedding is at a church. Everyone looks excited. The
Speaker 1: priest starts his god talk and immediately launches in to
Speaker 1: speak now or forever hold your piece, And who should
Speaker 1: stand up but Sharie Appleby the actress who played the
Speaker 1: victim in the episode Military Justice that we've covered that
Speaker 1: just aired in the SVU Universe five seasons ago. She's
Speaker 1: so recognizable to me and like having her be the
Speaker 1: main victim of two episodes with only five seasons, Cushion,
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I mean when I say it
Speaker 1: takes me out of it a little bit, because, like,
Speaker 1: you know, but also love her and unreal. I think
Speaker 1: she plays like sort of unlike lightly unstable. I think
Speaker 1: she plays it really well. She interrupts to tell the
Speaker 1: shocked crowd that the groom raped her gasps everywhere like
Speaker 1: the whole crowd. Obviously, this is hundreds of extras. They
Speaker 1: are all gasping. In the next scene, Crisy and Benson
Speaker 1: are there on the case and he's like, fada, what's
Speaker 1: up like talking to the priest, and the priest is like,
Speaker 1: I don't know who else to call. Everyone's inside, but
Speaker 1: it's not pretty inside. The vibes are in shambles. Sharie
Speaker 1: Apple be aka Kitty Bennett is like, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: was just trying to help. Like her reaction is truly wild.
Speaker 1: She's like, why is everybody so upset? Like she doesn't understand,
Speaker 1: like the bombshell she's just dropped, I guess. The groom
Speaker 1: refuses to walk away from his possible bride to be
Speaker 1: to talk to Careesy, and the bride is just sobbing
Speaker 1: to her mother. Benson takes Kitty away and she yells, Lana,
Speaker 1: one day, you'll thank me for this, And one of
Speaker 1: the bride'smaids is like, bitch, shut the fuck up and
Speaker 1: like try to let to rap at her. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love her. She's like, you psycho, bitch, get out of here.
Speaker 1: You just ruin my friend's life. Benson breaks it up
Speaker 1: and Kitty's acting like she just told the bride that
Speaker 1: she had toilet paper on her shoe. She's like, I
Speaker 1: just wanted somebody to know, like she's acting really, really
Speaker 1: weirdly nonchalant, and Benson goes, well, now everybody does know.
Speaker 1: And now we're at the credits and Rowins is here
Speaker 1: now and she and Benson are talking to Kitty.
Speaker 4: The groom.
Speaker 1: Josh Hensley, who they referred to as doctor Hensley a
Speaker 1: lot throughout the episode, is a therapist, so I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's they call him a psychologist. So later,
Speaker 1: so he's a psychologist and he's the groom. She says
Speaker 1: she went to see him on December eleventh. She knows
Speaker 1: the exact date without having to look at a date
Speaker 1: book or a palm pilot or anything, and it was
Speaker 1: a few months after her mom died. She said she
Speaker 1: saw him after work. A receptionist had booked the appointment,
Speaker 1: but she must have gone home at that point. He
Speaker 1: was really nice and professional.
Speaker 4: At first.
Speaker 1: She told him her story that she's the only child
Speaker 1: that her dad left and she just missed her mom
Speaker 1: so much. She started to cry, and that's when he
Speaker 1: came and sat next to her on the couch and
Speaker 1: he asked to give her a hug, and he said
Speaker 1: it was normal and Live goes it's not, and it's like, okay, Live,
Speaker 1: you're correct, But also, mister Noodle bought you jewelry, so
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know the actual line on
Speaker 1: therapy therapist's behavior. So then he started to stroke her hair,
Speaker 1: and she said she knew it wasn't normal, but she
Speaker 1: was too scared to stop them. He pushed her back,
Speaker 1: put his hand up her skirt. She told him to stop,
Speaker 1: he didn't listen. He forced himself on her, and she
Speaker 1: said she just laid there like a rag doll until
Speaker 1: it was done. Now we cut to Hensley, the groom,
Speaker 1: and he's freaking out like I'm with a detective on
Speaker 1: my wedding day, Like he truly has bride vibes, And
Speaker 1: he says he has no idea who Kitty even is,
Speaker 1: but she just ruined the best day of his life.
Speaker 1: Kitty tells liv she never told a soul about the attack.
Speaker 1: She was too ashamed and she was afraid that no
Speaker 1: one would believe her. The next day, she called in
Speaker 1: sick to her job, and then like after that, she
Speaker 1: ended up missing so much work over this incident that
Speaker 1: the job let her go. So they asked her, have
Speaker 1: you had any contact with him after the assault, and
Speaker 1: she just shakes her head. And then they're like, well,
Speaker 1: how'd you find out about the wedding? And she says
Speaker 1: on Instagram and she goes, I never thought the police
Speaker 1: would be getting involved. And it's like, ma'am, you've leveled
Speaker 1: a huge accusation at a two undred wedding, Like, come
Speaker 1: on now, Like, I don't understand how you thought the
Speaker 1: cops were not going to be involved at all. She's like,
Speaker 1: I just wanted him to be punished and humiliated, like
Speaker 1: I was, I guess. And then back to Josh. He
Speaker 1: needs to talk to Lana and Rollins is like, what's up?
Speaker 4: Dog? Like?
Speaker 1: She says she was your patient and he's like that's
Speaker 1: not true. That never happened. There's no appointment, and Crisey's like,
Speaker 1: we'll go find out, and he goes, let's go to
Speaker 1: my office right now. There's no file, no billing record, nothing,
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, why would she accuse you?
Speaker 4: And he's like, I have no clue.
Speaker 1: So then Rollins goes into guy's girl mode, you know,
Speaker 1: she goes, maybe it was like a fling, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it was like a last hurrah before your wedding.
Speaker 4: I know how you guys do.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I have never ever cheated on Laana
Speaker 1: And he's like, this will destroy me.
Speaker 4: You guys got to help me.
Speaker 1: Like you're honestly on his side, like a little bit
Speaker 1: at the beginning, You're like, wow, is she just like
Speaker 1: making this up out of nowhere? Because it's just weird
Speaker 1: that there would be zero connection that that's what he's maintaining.
Speaker 1: Back at the precinct, Benson is like, Kitty seems like
Speaker 1: a typical victim and Crisey's like yeah, but the dude
Speaker 1: swears he's never seen her. And Ben's like, well, why
Speaker 1: don't you guys go confirm that the appointment happened. So
Speaker 1: now they're at Chelsea Medical and a receptionist is on
Speaker 1: the phone making an appointment for a chemical peel. So
Speaker 1: this is this receptionist handles all kinds of things from
Speaker 1: chemical peels to therapy. Okay, we got lip injections to hysterectomies.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on at Chelsea Medical. And
Speaker 1: they're like, Hi, we're from SVU. You know what that is, right,
Speaker 1: you watch TV? We need to confirm an appointment, And
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, doctor Hensley's on his honeymoon. She's like
Speaker 1: just sort of not getting it, and they're like, we know, sweetie,
Speaker 1: we just need to look at his appointment book. And
Speaker 1: she's like, isn't that like a hip of violation and
Speaker 1: Creasy goes h no, because we don't need to see
Speaker 1: medical records, so it's cool, which.
Speaker 4: Is a lie.
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole reason why you write your name
Speaker 1: now on like stickers when you sign in to medical
Speaker 1: offices is because then they remove the sticker immediately. Because
Speaker 1: sign in sheets are a hip of violation. You can't
Speaker 1: just show people Like technically, I'm not even allowed to say, Lisa,
Speaker 1: I know you go to doctor so and so on
Speaker 1: this podcast. That's like a violation of HIPPA, you know, like.
Speaker 4: Not what you've had done a doctor.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: But if okay, so.
Speaker 1: If I worked at a doctor's office because I worked
Speaker 1: at my mom's office and I had to get hip
Speaker 1: A certified, and if I said, oh, you've been a
Speaker 1: patient of my mom's for a long time, that would
Speaker 1: be a hip of violation, like because even though it's
Speaker 1: just a pediatrician, you know, like even though it's like
Speaker 1: you know, that's not likely like releasing anything about your
Speaker 1: medical actual history.
Speaker 4: It's a violation even to say who your doctor is.
Speaker 1: So Cariese kind of fudges it, and the girl gets
Speaker 1: the book and the calendar and there is no appointment
Speaker 1: for that date, but there is one for seven fifteen,
Speaker 1: and it says Hannah Berkowitz with a phone number, and
Speaker 1: they are written in pencil. Careesy points out, so they
Speaker 1: could have been changed, and the lady's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess if the client changes, but you can also
Speaker 1: tell when something's been erased in pencil, and there's there
Speaker 1: was nothing in the six fifteen slot.
Speaker 4: So on the way out, Cariese says.
Speaker 1: He memorized the phone number by Hannah's name, so if
Speaker 1: Kitty was there, maybe Hannah saw her leave. So now
Speaker 1: they're at a toe above the rest ballet studio, and
Speaker 1: I'm it's I don't really think ballet's studios do kind
Speaker 1: of like cute sceneames like that. But maybe maybe I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: and she's talking to Hannah Brookowitz.
Speaker 4: I just don't think like to's should be in the
Speaker 4: name of anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, toe should be men's toe should be illegal,
Speaker 1: as you've said previously, which I do think would be
Speaker 1: good merch.
Speaker 2: I could have been a bow above the rest, a
Speaker 2: bow above the a bun above the yeah buds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, we could have done something better.
Speaker 1: And Hannah Brookwitz is played by Poppy Lou who if
Speaker 1: you watch Hacks, she is Debra's blackjack dealer and a
Speaker 1: very funny character. And she actually posted a very cute
Speaker 1: photo from the set of her and Lucy Lou, who
Speaker 1: directed this episode in case anybody Yeah, Lucy Lou directed
Speaker 1: this episode, and she says in the caption that their cousins,
Speaker 1: and she's likelu she was like, oh my god, so
Speaker 1: honored to work with you. You're one of my like Asian
Speaker 1: female role models. But then she also mentions family again,
Speaker 1: so I do think maybe they're related, and she goes,
Speaker 1: Lucy Lou does whatever she wants, like casting me as
Speaker 1: Hannah Burkowitz lol, because I mean I think clearly that
Speaker 1: as you know, really seem like who you'd imagine when
Speaker 1: you imagine a hannahburk Witz. And she said they spoke
Speaker 1: Mandarin on the set to one another, and she was
Speaker 1: like so pumped she got to work with Lucy low
Speaker 1: so kind of some cute behind the scenes if we
Speaker 1: couldn't get Poppy Lou on the pod, we at least
Speaker 1: got her Instagram caption. So talking to Rollins and Careese,
Speaker 1: she goes, oh, yeah, that night December eleventh. You don't
Speaker 1: even have to tell me twice again. Nobody checks their calendars.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows exact I don't know where I was two
Speaker 1: days ago. I have to look at my Google calendar
Speaker 1: for everything. I would be I would be charged with
Speaker 1: a crime. Like I would be like, I don't know me.
Speaker 1: Like if they took my phone and they were like,
Speaker 1: you can't look at your Google calendar, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't tell you, like where I was,
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 4: So it's wild.
Speaker 1: She goes, oh, yeah, December eleventh, I know showed my
Speaker 1: appointment that night. I had a big recital in Philly.
Speaker 1: Was like getting back to the city because of traffic
Speaker 1: in the tunnel, like she knows so many details. Rollins
Speaker 1: is like, Okay, doctor Hensley, did he ever do anything
Speaker 1: weird with you?
Speaker 4: Like, try anything?
Speaker 1: And she's like, I'm gay actually, and doctor Hensley helped
Speaker 1: me come out two years ago. She's like, is he
Speaker 1: in some kind of trouble and Caresey Cresy probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: be answering, like as a cop, I don't think you're
Speaker 1: supposed to like give out more information. And Creasy goes,
Speaker 1: one of his female patients may have had some issues,
Speaker 1: and I think that's too much to disclose. But Hannah goes,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, is her name Kitty Bennett? And they're like,
Speaker 1: how do you know who Kitty Bennett? And she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know her in real life, but she stalked
Speaker 1: me on Instagram. She's like, I left a comment on
Speaker 1: one of doctor Hensley's photos, So again I have to
Speaker 1: I should have also called this out earlier, when we
Speaker 1: found out that Kitty found out about the wedding from
Speaker 1: his Instagram. I don't think most therapists have their instagrams open.
Speaker 1: I don't think if they do, they're not letting their
Speaker 1: they're not letting patients follow them, you know, like they
Speaker 1: probably restrict their follower like, you know, there's just no way.
Speaker 1: So she commented on her therapist's photo, and then Kitty
Speaker 1: started following her, dming her, insisting they get coffee to
Speaker 1: talk about the doc, and Hannah's like, I don't even
Speaker 1: tell my best friend about my therapy. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to spill my guts to some rando, especially about this
Speaker 1: doctor who basically saved my life. And she said she
Speaker 1: responded to Kitty's first message, but that unfortunately gave her
Speaker 1: license to write her every single day for a month.
Speaker 1: And Hannah's like, finally I had to block like and
Speaker 1: she goes that chick is straight up psycho. So that's
Speaker 1: the end of Act one. At the top of AC two,
Speaker 1: Rollins is busting into the precinct. She's like, I tracked
Speaker 1: down three of Hensley's other patients, so they all had
Speaker 1: glowing reviews. Kitty Bennett, on the other hand, has a
Speaker 1: record disorderly conduct, shoplifting a restraining order, and the restraining
Speaker 1: order was filed by a guy named Bo Albrecht.
Speaker 4: So they go talk to Bo.
Speaker 1: And he's telling Rollins and Creasy that Kitty is quote
Speaker 1: unquote looney Tunes. He said he met her one set
Speaker 1: of cooking class, complimented her sou.
Speaker 4: Fle and then she blew up his Facebook messenger.
Speaker 1: He says he was just trying to be nice, but
Speaker 1: then she found out he was a trainer. She started
Speaker 1: sending him daily videos of herself exercising and sexy jym outfits.
Speaker 1: He told her he had a girlfriend. She accused him
Speaker 1: of leading her on, so he blocked her. She started
Speaker 1: harassing the girlfriend, like showing up at her waitressing job.
Speaker 1: That's when he got the restraining order. So Live brings
Speaker 1: Kitty into her office to clear some shit up, and
Speaker 1: she's like, you've engaged in some stalking behaviors, ma'am, and
Speaker 1: she goes, well, BO said he was single and I
Speaker 1: apologized in court. Like It's like this is where I
Speaker 1: think Shori Applebee is good because at this point I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this woman is kind of like a little bit off
Speaker 1: her rocker like, and she's like, I just I thought
Speaker 1: he was single. And then Liv brings up Hannah and
Speaker 1: Kitty's like, okay, okay, yeah, sure I may have crossed
Speaker 1: the line with Hannah, but I was just desperate to
Speaker 1: talk to someone who knew doctor Hensley to understand why
Speaker 1: he targeted me.
Speaker 4: And Liv says, well, there's no record.
Speaker 1: Of the appointment, and to me, that doesn't make any difference,
Speaker 1: Like he could have bought a completely new appointment book
Speaker 1: after he rapes a patient, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like in a pencil book if it was like a
Speaker 1: computer thing where you can like track things that have
Speaker 1: been deleted and this and that. Okay, a penciled in
Speaker 1: date book. I'm not buying it. So she's like, what
Speaker 1: are you saying? I made this up? And Lives like no,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and Kittie's like, look, I'm not some choir girl.
Speaker 4: I fucked up.
Speaker 1: But that's why he thought he could get away with this,
Speaker 1: and that is something we've seen that is like predators
Speaker 1: know who to choose right, Like we've seen that lives like,
Speaker 1: let's start over. I want to believe you. I need
Speaker 1: you to help me. Are there any details that you
Speaker 1: can remember, like smells, anything from you know, the attack,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I just remember lying on that red
Speaker 1: leather couch, staring up at the ceiling and praying for
Speaker 1: it to be over. So now Rollin's and Creasy are
Speaker 1: at this very beautiful a loft apartment of doctor Hensley
Speaker 1: and Lana, and He's like, my leather couch is burgundy,
Speaker 1: not red, and Careesy goes red Burgundy. We're not really
Speaker 1: sure w William's here. And I liked that. I enjoyed
Speaker 1: that a lot because this guy's like a fool like
Speaker 1: red Burgundy's in the Red Family Dog, So how would
Speaker 1: she know about the red leather couch at all if
Speaker 1: she was never in your office? And Lana pipes in
Speaker 1: and goes, well, it's on his website. There's a picture
Speaker 1: of him at his desk and you can see the
Speaker 1: couch in the background. And Chrisy asks, well, is there
Speaker 1: any chance that you had some kind of interaction with
Speaker 1: this woman that she construed as flirtatious? And He's like,
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything, and Lana's like, does this
Speaker 1: woman have a history of this kind of thing? And
Speaker 1: the cops obviously are like not going to share that,
Speaker 1: but they're like, did anything weird like come up on
Speaker 1: your phone or on social media that has been like
Speaker 1: strange lately? And the couple like share a look, and
Speaker 1: then Lanna's like, well, actually, last month, someone sexted Josh
Speaker 1: a bunch of nude pics and Hensley's like, I didn't
Speaker 1: think of it because it didn't seem connected. The photos
Speaker 1: were all different women, like pulled from a pornos site.
Speaker 4: I thought it was spam.
Speaker 1: And then Lana brings up a dating profile and at
Speaker 1: first it seems like Josh is like, don't like, you know,
Speaker 1: but then they don't really comment on that again. And
Speaker 1: someone emailed Lana a link to Josh's dating profile page
Speaker 1: and he's like, I've never online date and she's like,
Speaker 1: and I could tell after I looked at it for
Speaker 1: a while that the page was fake, Like all the
Speaker 1: pictures were from Google. Some of the info was wrong.
Speaker 1: But I mean, honestly, if you are going to cheat,
Speaker 1: you are going to put wrong info. But the pictures
Speaker 1: from Google is not a good. Is not a good,
Speaker 1: but she said. Lana says she replied to the email
Speaker 1: that sent her the link and it bounced back. Then
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, and also, we had a burglary at
Speaker 1: our apartment two months back. They reported it to the police,
Speaker 1: but nothing was stolen, so they figured it was just kids.
Speaker 1: All they did was poor tomato juice all over our
Speaker 1: wedding invitations. Okay, bloody Mary. So now Rollins and Benson
Speaker 1: are talking to Kitty and she's like, now they're saying
Speaker 1: I burgled them, and Rollins is like, the text the
Speaker 1: fake dating profile, they all track back to your old job,
Speaker 1: and Kitty's like, I was just trying to protect Lana,
Speaker 1: to tell her the truth about her fiance. I guess
Speaker 1: I get that with the fake dating profile, Why did
Speaker 1: you just send him a bunch of nudes of people
Speaker 1: from a pornos site. That's what I don't get. That
Speaker 1: doesn't I don't see.
Speaker 4: What that does.
Speaker 3: But you know, yeah, like she is nutty nutty, But
Speaker 3: the look of this man, I don't trust this man
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 4: The moment I saw him, I was like, not not
Speaker 4: my kind.
Speaker 1: I know. I feel actually like a loser because like
Speaker 1: I believe him for the first quarter of the episode,
Speaker 1: like I'm like, and then after I was like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: I know this up. Like I was like, yes, this
Speaker 1: guy's bad, but I cannot believe you were tricks by him.
Speaker 1: I was tricked a little bit because I don't understand
Speaker 1: the doubling down. We're going to get into it, obviously,
Speaker 1: but the doubling down of I don't have any idea
Speaker 1: who this person is. It's like there's evidence of everybody
Speaker 1: meeting each other, like anyone you've spent time with, there's
Speaker 1: evidence of that pretty much. You know, cameras, you don't
Speaker 1: know about d Like, it just seems like an idiot's
Speaker 1: thing to go. I never heard of that person, you know,
Speaker 1: and to be so adamant. Let's go to my office
Speaker 1: right now and check it out. I think that's like
Speaker 1: why I was believing it, but I'm dumb. I'm hating myself.
Speaker 1: But also I think she emailed those pictures because she wanted,
Speaker 1: like Lana to find them and be like, you're cheating.
Speaker 1: These are your girlfriends or something. But feels he could
Speaker 1: be like these are famous porn stars. Look at But
Speaker 1: so now Rollins is like, okay, so maybe you met
Speaker 1: him somewhere and you thought he was single and you
Speaker 1: felt disappointed, And She's like, no, I saw him for therapy,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, can't they just like dump her phone
Speaker 1: records to see if she called to make the appointment,
Speaker 1: or like triangulate GPS to see if she was at
Speaker 1: the office the day that she said, like she has
Speaker 1: a date and a location.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I famously listened to Cereal twice through, so I'm very
Speaker 1: interested in cell phone towers. Liv Is like, Babe, there
Speaker 1: are so many inconsistencies. We're just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what happened. And then Kitty like runs to the bathroom
Speaker 1: and throws up, and then Benson clocks a pregnancy test
Speaker 1: in the trash. She asks, Kitty, are you pregnant? And
Speaker 1: she says, after the rape, I missed a period. I
Speaker 1: thought it was just stress, and then the nausea started,
Speaker 1: So I honestly just took a pregnancy test right before
Speaker 1: you guys got here. She's like, I'm pregnant and he
Speaker 1: did this to me, and it's like, okay, let's test
Speaker 1: this fetus.
Speaker 4: This is actually a great break in the case, you know.
Speaker 1: So at a medical facility getting blood drawn, Kitty's telling
Speaker 1: Live about how she always dreamed of being a mom.
Speaker 1: She had a baby doll with a bottle when she
Speaker 1: was little, and her imaginary husband was a prince named Sebastian.
Speaker 1: And then, very nonchalant, she just goes, I never thought
Speaker 1: my baby's father would be a man who raped me,
Speaker 1: Like she's just saying, it's so nonchalant, You're like, what's happening.
Speaker 1: Live's face gets weird as she tells the Emmy like
Speaker 1: put a rush on that blood work, and then she's like,
Speaker 1: a judge can't force me to keep the baby right
Speaker 1: and lives like no, and neither Conductor Hensley and Kitty
Speaker 1: goes good because I could never love a baby that
Speaker 1: was conceived by a monster, and Live follows her with
Speaker 1: a kind of look on her face, and Kitty's like,
Speaker 1: you don't think I should keep it, do you? And
Speaker 1: Lives like whatever you decide, and now Live I get it,
Speaker 1: like once per season they slap you in the face
Speaker 1: with somebody being like, how could I ever keep.
Speaker 4: The child of my rapist?
Speaker 1: And like we do know that Olivia is a child
Speaker 1: of rape, and like, I think we need to like
Speaker 1: let this lady do her thing. Like it is weird
Speaker 1: how much she is getting involved in making faces and stuff.
Speaker 1: Especially season twenty, Katy wants to know what Live would do,
Speaker 1: and Live as usual is struggling with being able to
Speaker 1: like say her truth.
Speaker 4: She's like, it's hard for me to be objective. You're
Speaker 4: really raw right now.
Speaker 1: With some distance, you'll realize that this baby is half yours.
Speaker 1: No matter what happened to you, he or she the baby,
Speaker 1: it's not their fault. And She's like, weird, it's weird.
Speaker 1: It's weird, and I'm going to talk about it more
Speaker 1: later for sure, and she's like, but if I wait,
Speaker 1: and it's too late, and Lives like, maybe talk to someone,
Speaker 1: and Kitty goes like another psychologist. Thanks, I'm good. Like literally,
Speaker 1: it's so weird, it's very it's just wild. After twenty seasons,
Speaker 1: like we know this character, Like we know what Olivia
Speaker 1: would do, and there's a lot of out of character
Speaker 1: shit in this episode for her, Like I don't think
Speaker 1: she would suggest to someone who is just raped by
Speaker 1: their therapist to go to a therapist right away, Like
Speaker 1: I think she would probably be like there's counselors women
Speaker 1: that you can speak to, you know, Like and anyway,
Speaker 1: He's like, as soon as these labs come back, I'm
Speaker 1: going right to the clinic and I'm getting rid of
Speaker 1: this thing. And I don't know why Olivia's having such
Speaker 1: a reaction. I literally wrote down, I go suddenly she's
Speaker 1: a crisis pregnancy center employee, like lying basically being like, actually,
Speaker 1: your baby's already fully talking in the womb, you know,
Speaker 1: so like we still aren't positive that she's not that
Speaker 1: she's telling the truth, Like we don't know yet. Liv
Speaker 1: looks upset, like she's going to be sick or something,
Speaker 1: and then she steps into the stairwell of the hospital
Speaker 1: and she's like breathing heavily and has to like calm
Speaker 1: herself down that's really wild to me. This woman has
Speaker 1: watched a lot of pregnant women terminate their rapist children
Speaker 1: on this show, and I think has advised for it,
Speaker 1: And now suddenly, in season twenty, it's coming over her
Speaker 1: with such a rush that she has to go be privately.
Speaker 4: Catching her breath. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Back at the precinct, doctor Hensley's getting swabbed and saying
Speaker 1: this woman must have a personality disorder and she needs help.
Speaker 1: He's like, once these labs come back, I'm cleared, right,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is like, not necessarily, and Creasey's like once
Speaker 1: up at a time, but Hensley's like, well, one thing
Speaker 1: I know is that I'm going to sue the shit
Speaker 1: out of this woman, and like I'm taking her for
Speaker 1: every penny in her bank account. After this is all over,
Speaker 1: And the next scene, Liv is like looking forlornly through
Speaker 1: the blinds of her office, you know, once again, thinking
Speaker 1: about being the child of an assault, and Rollins comes
Speaker 1: in and is like you okay, babe, and Live goes
Speaker 1: sure in a way that basically means when am I
Speaker 1: ever okay? And Rollin says, Kitty is not your mom,
Speaker 1: and Live goes well, she might as well be. She
Speaker 1: actually recalls hearing her mom say on the phone when
Speaker 1: she was fifteen, the words quote, how could I love
Speaker 1: someone that was conceived by a monster? And yeah, Kitty
Speaker 1: said those words verbatim. So I bet that that is
Speaker 1: very triggering. But we've never heard that before. Like that,
Speaker 1: lives mom treated her like she was on the phone.
Speaker 1: Yeah she was on the phone. She was on the phone, but.
Speaker 2: I didn't say it to her, but I think she
Speaker 2: was a drunk, Like I think she probably did mean it.
Speaker 1: She wasn't drunk, But at this point, the girl's fifteen,
Speaker 1: Like I could see you saying that when they're like
Speaker 1: a baby and you're becoming a new mom and.
Speaker 4: You're like, how do I look?
Speaker 1: It's like she's fifteen, Like this is around the time
Speaker 1: where Livia Benson starts dating older college professors and shit,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have bigger fish to fry than whether you
Speaker 1: light love her or not.
Speaker 4: You gotta help her.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't This is all like
Speaker 1: not jibing with me, just with like the past. Live
Speaker 1: has wet eyes, she's very emotional, so obviously this is
Speaker 1: the moment Careese bursts in and he's like, DNA results
Speaker 1: are in. It's a match, done, done, And then I wrote,
Speaker 1: is this guy a fucking psychopath? And like the answer
Speaker 1: is yes, Like that's what I like when you're watching
Speaker 1: this movie, this episode. I know that they're doing this
Speaker 1: on purpose, but like the doubling down, the I don't
Speaker 1: even know her, there is no record, there is no
Speaker 1: evidence take my DNA in this twenty previous seasons of
Speaker 1: this show, whenever somebody willingly offers DNA, they take that
Speaker 1: as like, this guy's probably not guilty because he's willingly
Speaker 1: offering DNA.
Speaker 4: Does this man think that he is outsmarting DNA?
Speaker 1: Or maybe he doesn't know there's a pregnance he must
Speaker 1: otherwise why is he giving his DNA?
Speaker 4: Right? So, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Liv goes pick him up, so Rollin's and caresy bang
Speaker 1: on his door.
Speaker 4: He opens it and he's like what now, And it's like,
Speaker 4: what do you mean? What now? You?
Speaker 1: You are acting like you've done nothing. You have literally
Speaker 1: been matched. They're like, bad news, Doc, the paternity test
Speaker 1: came back and you're it. Lana looks like she's been
Speaker 1: punched in the gut, like she doubles over, like she
Speaker 1: is upset.
Speaker 4: Henley's like, this is a mistake.
Speaker 1: And they're like, DNA doesn't liebro and he's like, Lana, listen,
Speaker 1: I did not rape that woman.
Speaker 4: She says, shut up, shut up for once in your life.
Speaker 4: Shut up.
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, trouble in paradise. I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: these two were a solid front. But she's like, shut
Speaker 1: the fuck up, you idiot, and Carisee's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with your wife on this one. Why don't you
Speaker 1: shut your damn pie hole. He tells Lana he loves her,
Speaker 1: don't give up on me. As Cariese's like hauling his
Speaker 1: ass off down the hauling cuffs. In interrogation, Hensley is
Speaker 1: still sitting there going I didn't rape Kitty, and Benson's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so are you? Like is she the virgin Mary? Like,
Speaker 1: how the hell did she get pregnant with your child?
Speaker 1: And he says I lied about one thing and Benson goes, oh,
Speaker 1: only one, and he goes, okay, more than one. Kitty
Speaker 1: and I had consensual sex, he says, three times before
Speaker 1: I ended it. I couldn't admit it before, and Benson goes, yeah, conveniently,
Speaker 1: now that the DNA's come back, You've admitted it. And
Speaker 1: he's like, well, she accused me of rape in front
Speaker 1: of my entire family, and Benson's like, yeah, it would
Speaker 1: have been like a lot easier for you to just
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, sorry, I had a wild
Speaker 1: affair with this woman for three days, like three months ago,
Speaker 1: and it's over and I didn't you know whatever. But
Speaker 1: Benson's like, you think you're really convincing, and you're convincing
Speaker 1: everyone around you, and I don't believe a word that
Speaker 1: comes out of your mouth. And He's like, hear me out,
Speaker 1: and Benson's like, all right, for shits, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: He goes Kitty was never my patient. We met at
Speaker 1: a bar around the corner, the empty room. It's a
Speaker 1: block from Kitty's apartment. Corisie and Rollins are watching on
Speaker 1: the other side of the mirror, and Rollins is like,
Speaker 1: so much for not cheating on your wife, you know,
Speaker 1: or your fiance. He goes on that Kitty was sitting
Speaker 1: at the bar alone. He bought her a drink, talked
Speaker 1: to her for ten minutes and realized how easy this.
Speaker 4: Was going to be.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, why did so you already like
Speaker 1: hate him now because it's like, why would that even
Speaker 1: be a thing that you're like talking about the game
Speaker 1: of it all, Like you just realized within ten minutes
Speaker 1: that you could fuck this woman, like you're gross. So
Speaker 1: why does she claim she was your patient? They're like,
Speaker 1: and he says, because she's vindictive, and he's like, you
Speaker 1: don't believe me, and Live goes, well, lie to me
Speaker 1: once you know, she's like, fool me once. Shame on,
Speaker 1: shame on me, right, noot, shame on you. Sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: George W. Bush right now, he says, Okay, the second
Speaker 1: time we slept together, she gave me a key to
Speaker 1: her apartment four B and he throws the key down
Speaker 1: on the table. He's got it in his pocket because
Speaker 1: he has it on him at all times, and he
Speaker 1: had it when he was arrested surprise in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night. So at Katy's apartment building, Rollins is
Speaker 1: winded from taking the stairs the elevators out. Cariese's asking
Speaker 1: is live okay with all this? And Rolind's like it's
Speaker 1: been tough, but she's hanging in there. They knock on
Speaker 1: the door, no one answers. They try the key. It
Speaker 1: doesn't work. Rollins is like, why play with us on
Speaker 1: this whole key thing? Like, and then Careese clocks the
Speaker 1: security camera that's up in the hallway and goes roll
Speaker 1: footage to quote Lisa. Is it Lisa that says that
Speaker 1: roll footage from?
Speaker 4: So it's like, why am I blanking on her last name?
Speaker 1: Barlow? Lisa Barlow? She's always like and nah, roll footage.
Speaker 1: So next scene, Benson, Rollins, and Creasy are gathered around
Speaker 1: for a little show of the footage, and on it
Speaker 1: you can see Hensley arriving, knocking at the door, Katie
Speaker 1: opening the door in a sexy dress, and then kissing him,
Speaker 1: like them embracing and making out so pretty wild.
Speaker 4: The security camera got that.
Speaker 1: I feel like, normally you'd let someone in, shut the door,
Speaker 1: then kiss, but you know, they couldn't keep their hands
Speaker 1: off each other and lives like they're both liars. Done done, Okay,
Speaker 1: So now they show this. They're showing this footage to
Speaker 1: Kitty and she's like, I know how this looks, and
Speaker 1: she's like, okay, so I did sleep with him a
Speaker 1: few times, but it was after he raped me in
Speaker 1: his office.
Speaker 4: I'm not lying about that.
Speaker 1: And they're like Josh says, you guys met at a
Speaker 1: bar and the bartender confirmed seeing you together. She goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that was a few days after my appointment. And
Speaker 1: they're like an appointment that nobody can confirm. And then
Speaker 1: they're like, did you give him your kety apartment? She goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I changed the locks after he dumped me, and
Speaker 1: Rollins says, like, is that what this is about right now?
Speaker 1: You were hurt, slept with him and found out he
Speaker 1: was engaged. She goes, no, that's not what happened. She says,
Speaker 1: after he raped me, I went to confront him outside
Speaker 1: his office. She said she was going to the cops,
Speaker 1: and then he talked her out of it. He insisted
Speaker 1: they go to a bar so he could explain himself.
Speaker 1: He said she wanted to be overpowered. There's a condition
Speaker 1: for it. It's called erotic rape fantasy disorder. How she
Speaker 1: played with her hair, how she'd cross her legs so
Speaker 1: he could see up her skirt, that she was seducing him.
Speaker 1: All of these were factors that he diagnosed in her.
Speaker 4: And then you took him home.
Speaker 1: They asked her and she's like, he said, I had
Speaker 1: intimacy issues. That the grief for my mom was masking
Speaker 1: my real problems and that he was going to help me.
Speaker 4: Work it out.
Speaker 1: She says she's sorry, she knows she screwed it up,
Speaker 1: and she's like, is he in jail now?
Speaker 4: And they're like, well, he was a rain, but he
Speaker 4: made bail.
Speaker 1: So if he gets in touch with you, you've got to
Speaker 1: tell us and lives like, we're going to continue investigating,
Speaker 1: and they're like, there's nothing else you're hiding and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: nothing else, and I'm sorry I didn't tell you the
Speaker 1: whole truth. And of course, as they're walking out, Lana's
Speaker 1: at the front desk, the wife the fiance. Kitty goes
Speaker 1: off immediately like what are you doing here? I'm the victor,
Speaker 1: you're not the victim.
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 1: I have your disgusting fiance's baby and my belly. Like
Speaker 1: she's like really going off on this woman, and Lana's like,
Speaker 1: please leave me alone. Robins tells Kitty to chill. Lana's like,
Speaker 1: why does she hate me so much when she's the
Speaker 1: one that destroyed my life? And then Benson takes Lana
Speaker 1: in her office and she's like, well, that could be
Speaker 1: Josh's fault.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Lana's like, last weekend, I was walking down the aisle
Speaker 1: and this nightmare just keeps getting worse. Or it's the
Speaker 1: I'm like, or it's the greatest bullet dodge of all time, bitch,
Speaker 1: like you should run. She tells Benson that Josh finally
Speaker 1: admitted the affair, and Live asks how did you guys
Speaker 1: first meet? And Lana goes, oh, Josh was my therapist
Speaker 1: and it's like, uh, like the groan that I groaned,
Speaker 1: Like she said, well no, but we didn't start seeing
Speaker 1: each other until he stopped being my therapists. Like, I'm
Speaker 1: a real estate broker and he reached out so I
Speaker 1: could help him find a loft in Manhattan, and I
Speaker 1: was going out with another guy and he convinced me
Speaker 1: to break it.
Speaker 4: Off, and Lives like did you want that?
Speaker 1: And then Lana like dodges the question, and she's like,
Speaker 1: Josh was always a really great boyfriend. He taught me
Speaker 1: about classical music, Russian novels, took me to galleries and museums,
Speaker 1: and lives like, is that shit you like to do?
Speaker 1: And Lona's like, Josh makes all the decisions, like she's
Speaker 1: like a robot, and Benson's like, what do you mean,
Speaker 1: and She's like, like in the bedroom, he likes to
Speaker 1: be dominant, and then liv goes, is that what you like?
Speaker 1: And Lana goes sure, but like in the same way
Speaker 1: that Live said sure earlier, like not really. So at
Speaker 1: the coffee machine, Rollins asked to Live like, oh, how
Speaker 1: to go with Lana and Lives like, oh, she's a
Speaker 1: hot mess and Hensley's doing a number on her. She
Speaker 1: tells Rowlinds the whole story. She's like, get this' he
Speaker 1: was her therapist. They discuss how this guy knows exactly
Speaker 1: how to manipulate Lana.
Speaker 4: His power over her is almost pathological.
Speaker 1: Benson thinks Kitty was telling the truth and Rollins is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've seen victims before go back and sleep with their rapists.
Speaker 1: And this is literally the plot of the movie l
Speaker 1: with Isabelle Upeer that I mentioned when we covered Shattered
Speaker 1: a couple weeks ago, so not to give it away,
Speaker 1: I went to the Wikipedia of it, but like, essentially
Speaker 1: the plot of the movie is this woman is raped
Speaker 1: and then she begins to sort of like play a
Speaker 1: cat and mouse like courtship game with her rapists, where
Speaker 1: she continues to have sexual contact with him.
Speaker 4: So obviously that's deeply.
Speaker 1: Psychological and I'm not going to comment on why anyone
Speaker 1: would do that. But we've seen people on this podcast.
Speaker 1: We've talked about people that message their rapists afterwards flirt
Speaker 1: with them. You know, there's all kinds of reasons people
Speaker 1: do things like this. CARIESI interrupts and is like, guys,
Speaker 1: the police are responding to a nine one one call
Speaker 1: at Hensley's place.
Speaker 4: Uh oh.
Speaker 1: When they get to the scene, they hear it's a
Speaker 1: female intruder. It's Kitty Bennett. They're like, we waited for
Speaker 1: you because we know you.
Speaker 4: Guys know her.
Speaker 1: So when they walk into the apartment, Kitty has a
Speaker 1: broken bottle to Hensley's neck. Lana is in the kitchen
Speaker 1: and they're like. She's saying she's gonna kill him if
Speaker 1: he doesn't admit to raping her, and Kitty is on edge.
Speaker 1: She's like, come any closer and I'll do it, and
Speaker 1: Rollins is like, then I'll have to shoot you. Like
Speaker 1: Rollins has her gun out and Benson is like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's just talk. Kitty's like about what this thing that's
Speaker 1: growing inside of me? Like she is not happy to
Speaker 1: be pregnant with this man's baby. She presses the bottle
Speaker 1: to Hensley's neck and is like, tell them about the
Speaker 1: rape fantasy, about how I wanted it because I didn't
Speaker 1: bite back, and they pan to Lana and she looks terrified,
Speaker 1: but there's also like a quick flash of recognition on
Speaker 1: her face and the sectress does do a good job
Speaker 1: with that, I would say, And then Kitty goes, maybe
Speaker 1: I should kill you just so you don't hurt anybody else,
Speaker 1: and Benson is like still trying to diffuse, and then
Speaker 1: Lanna goes, go ahead and kill him, and Lana goes,
Speaker 1: I know you're telling the truth.
Speaker 4: I know he raped you, And Kitty's not buying it.
Speaker 4: She goes, oh, dare you?
Speaker 1: Like I think she thinks Lana's making fun of her
Speaker 1: or like fucking with her to try to get her
Speaker 1: to do what she wants, and Lana says, no, he
Speaker 1: said those exact same things to me, remember Josh, the
Speaker 1: first time we had sex after he raped me, and
Speaker 1: Lana breaks down sobbing.
Speaker 4: Kitty looks shocked.
Speaker 1: Benson gets her to drop the bottle and she basically
Speaker 1: like falls into Benson's arms and like is finally being
Speaker 1: believed after being fucking gas lit all the way all
Speaker 1: over Manhattan and back like this episode is gaslighting in
Speaker 1: a nutshell. Lana's telling her story about how her and
Speaker 1: Josh went out looking for lofts like they were having
Speaker 1: drinks afterwards. He really helped her build her confidence because
Speaker 1: she was new to real estate. He was charming, supportive
Speaker 1: of her career. Then they went to go look at
Speaker 1: some listings once aloft in Chelsea, the one they live
Speaker 1: in now. They were checking out the bedroom. He grabbed
Speaker 1: her started kissing her. She was flattered. She kissed back,
Speaker 1: but then he pushed her hard onto the bed, climbed
Speaker 1: on top of her. She told him to stop, over
Speaker 1: and over, and it just made him more aggressive. He
Speaker 1: assaulted her and then she drove him home like she
Speaker 1: was like blaming herself, like I'm an idiot. Then I
Speaker 1: drove him home. She's so confused about what had happened.
Speaker 1: He called her the next day and asked her to
Speaker 1: put in an offer on the loft, and when the
Speaker 1: seller accepted, he shows up to her place.
Speaker 4: With flowers and champagne.
Speaker 1: Truly psychopathic behavior like to then date her and live
Speaker 1: with her in the apartment where that crime was where
Speaker 1: he committed. That crime is like off the charts insane.
Speaker 1: He tells her the flowers in the champagne are an
Speaker 1: apology for being so rough, and when she tried to
Speaker 1: talk about it, he's like, it's okay that you used
Speaker 1: your sexuality to seal the deal with us, you know,
Speaker 1: And I fucking hate this freak so hard now, like
Speaker 1: I cannot Like it's you go to school for so
Speaker 1: many years to be a psychotherapist, to be a therapist,
Speaker 1: to be a counselor of any kind, and it's like
Speaker 1: your goal should be you want to help people, and
Speaker 1: this guy's goal is like I want to fucking overpower
Speaker 1: people and manipulate them and get what I want, Like
Speaker 1: what a cycle you should have worked.
Speaker 4: On Wall Street?
Speaker 1: Anyway, Rollins goes he he's sick, and then asks Lana,
Speaker 1: are you willing to testify against him?
Speaker 4: And she's like I.
Speaker 1: Didn't really want to admit what he really was until
Speaker 1: I heard Kitty say those same things that he said
Speaker 1: to me, and then she goes, yes, I'll testify. So
Speaker 1: Benson's like pick him up again. So now a brassy
Speaker 1: lady lawyer who I don't think we see again so
Speaker 1: I'm not really going to get into who she is.
Speaker 1: Walks into interrogation where this psychoedoc is sitting and Benson
Speaker 1: tells her it's a new case, rape one and the
Speaker 1: lawyer's like, oh, you sank your claws into another victim,
Speaker 1: and Benson's like, your client's the one with the clause.
Speaker 1: A grieving woman came to you for help and in
Speaker 1: the space of an hour you ruined her life. And
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, well, what's the new case. Like, no
Speaker 1: one even like fights that one. They're like fair enough,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, what about this new case, and
Speaker 1: she drops a bomb. She goes The complaining witness is
Speaker 1: Lana Stalworth, and the lawyer goes very funny and he's like,
Speaker 1: Lanna would never turn on me. And we've seen these
Speaker 1: guys on these episodes that they're like, I know I
Speaker 1: control her. She'll never say anything, like Andrew McCarthy in
Speaker 1: Slaves when he's like, she won't say anything. She's under
Speaker 1: the bed and she knows to listen to me anyway
Speaker 1: and lives like oh dog. She's in front of the
Speaker 1: grand jury as we speak. And then psycho boy is like,
Speaker 1: I gave both those women exactly what they wanted. And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, you con them into believing that's what
Speaker 1: they wanted. And like any good con man, you've convinced
Speaker 1: yourself that your victims got what they deserved. You are done, doctor,
Speaker 1: You're done, And I love that. It's a fun Livia moment.
Speaker 1: The guy grunts, but he looks like he got got
Speaker 1: and he knows it. So now Live and Kitty are
Speaker 1: walking along the rut water. He's obviously got jail time.
Speaker 1: She's been seeing a therapist that Live recommended that, and
Speaker 1: that female therapist is already really helping her.
Speaker 4: She hasn't decided what to do about the baby.
Speaker 1: I thought for sure I was going to get an abortion,
Speaker 1: and lives like and now, and she said, I felt
Speaker 1: the baby kick this morning, and it reminded me of
Speaker 1: what you said. What happened to me is not this
Speaker 1: baby's fault. And I wrote, OMG, what you literally heard
Speaker 1: your mother say that at fifteen? Like, I know you
Speaker 1: turned out to be like a great person, but like
Speaker 1: that's been you like your whole life. Why are you
Speaker 1: fighting for this very fragile woman to keep her rapist baby?
Speaker 1: Like I don't get it, Like lives like it's still
Speaker 1: gonna be hard. I've known people in your position. They
Speaker 1: raise the child. Some days they don't even think about it,
Speaker 1: and other days, you know, even though your baby was
Speaker 1: conceived in an act of violence, your baby is innocent
Speaker 1: and deserves to be unconditionally, unconditionally loved. If you decide
Speaker 1: to become a mother, promised me that you'll remember that,
Speaker 1: and she says she will, and Live says, take care, and.
Speaker 4: Katy will I don't think that this character should have.
Speaker 1: A kid, right, this guy's kid. How do you know
Speaker 1: that this sociopathy is not like genetic in his case?
Speaker 1: You know, Live goes, but I love they do this thing.
Speaker 1: Live goes, okay, take care. They're on the side of
Speaker 1: the water and Kitty just walks off to nowhere, and
Speaker 1: I guess Live's going to go back the other direction,
Speaker 1: but Live doesn't go anywhere, so she just stands there
Speaker 1: staring out by, like you know, after Kitty as she
Speaker 1: walks away, and that's dick wolf baby, And then I wrote,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but this is coming off very right wing
Speaker 1: talking point. The whole babies are innocent, Like also, the
Speaker 1: baby's not a baby yet.
Speaker 4: I mean the fact that she felt a kick.
Speaker 1: I'm like, she should have had this done way earlier,
Speaker 1: like in my opinion, but also it's very out of
Speaker 1: character for Olivia and it does not make sense that
Speaker 1: she would push this woman to the edge, more so
Speaker 1: than many other victims she's dealt with in this situation.
Speaker 1: And I went on Reddit and a lot of people
Speaker 1: there agree with me. A lot of people were like,
Speaker 1: this is so out of character. We know her, this
Speaker 1: is not what Olivia would do, and I was like,
Speaker 1: it's weird. Lucy Lou directed the episode because I feel
Speaker 1: like she would have had something to do with the writing,
Speaker 1: and I was wondering if the writing was like one
Speaker 1: of the sort of like men I've heard about on
Speaker 1: the show that are not, you know, always the best,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't.
Speaker 4: So it's such a weird move.
Speaker 1: It's a really fucking weird move for her to go
Speaker 1: all pregnancy crisis and then like then it's like in
Speaker 1: two seasons or whatever, she's taking that girl from Ohio
Speaker 1: like fighting for her right to get an abortion and
Speaker 1: she's thirteen, Like, I don't think this woman and she's
Speaker 1: lost her job, She's.
Speaker 4: Got a long road of therapy ahead.
Speaker 1: We think, adding the stress of raising this baby is
Speaker 1: helpful for her.
Speaker 4: I just don't get it. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: I second everything that you just yeah, yeah, anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's not the cooler move like you know girls
Speaker 2: did that where she keeps this baby out of spite
Speaker 2: and it's like you're not doing anything cool, You're doing
Speaker 2: what everyone does, keeping it Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not like this is this woman's last
Speaker 1: chance to have a child, and like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just seems like so fucking weird. I normally I
Speaker 1: feel like live is just like you'll know what you
Speaker 1: need to do when the time is right, moving on,
Speaker 1: you know, Like this is so much pregnancy crisis center
Speaker 1: like rhetoric to me. But anyway, I'm excited to hear
Speaker 1: you talk about some crimes.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm not. I don't know, maybe I'm not. Okay,
Speaker 4: So there's a few cases. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel like I keep getting these multi case episodes.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: So the first case is the Lamar Edgerson case. This
Speaker 2: went down in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and he was a
Speaker 2: nationally recognized therapist who used hypnosis to sexually assault patients
Speaker 2: over a course of several years. So yeah. He was
Speaker 2: finally charged in twenty eighteen after certain patients came forward.
Speaker 2: On April twenty seventeen, a woman reported that Edgerson sexually
Speaker 2: assaulted her at his business called Family Harmony. She woke
Speaker 2: up during hypnosis and caught him performing oral sex on
Speaker 2: her and then claiming it was part of the treatment.
Speaker 2: He also picked her up from a bar once and
Speaker 2: took her to his house and raped her, and then
Speaker 2: he emailed her a bunch to say sorry, but also
Speaker 2: wanted to like sexy email time and just the mess.
Speaker 2: And Ederson pled guilty to three counts of rape and
Speaker 2: no contest to one other rape on Wednesday, July twenty ninth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and he was sentenced to twelve years in prison,
Speaker 2: where he still is right now.
Speaker 1: Wow, well, I'm glad he got jail. I mean, it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like enough. This seems like you are a
Speaker 1: danger to society. I don't think you should be out there.
Speaker 1: I'm sure hypno's a license, I'm sure hees no, but
Speaker 1: I mean even just your no no of course, but
Speaker 1: like even just your general demeanor that that's what you
Speaker 1: think is like normal. But also I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there needs to be like clearer boundaries. I feel like
Speaker 1: with what therapists, how much a therapist is like allowed
Speaker 1: to be in your life. Like I've had friends who
Speaker 1: have been like, oh yeah, I text my therapist all
Speaker 1: the time, and we went and did something together, like
Speaker 1: they went to like a concert together, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's weird, Like I've only ever texted my therapist about
Speaker 1: I'm running late, or like, you know, it's only scheduling.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, maybe people have it set up where
Speaker 1: you can text if you have a major problem and
Speaker 1: there's some kind of setup you have that they give
Speaker 1: you like a quick tool to but even then it's
Speaker 1: like off hours. I don't really I think that there
Speaker 1: just needs to be very clear because there's all these
Speaker 1: therapists out there going this is part of your treatment.
Speaker 4: Me picking you up from a bar, it's part of
Speaker 4: your treatment. Me like doing this.
Speaker 1: It's you know, like they can just say that it's
Speaker 1: like a catch all, and I just feel like it's
Speaker 1: important to know that your therapy should basically just be
Speaker 1: happening either on zoom or in an office, and you
Speaker 1: should really not be interacting outside of your sessions at all.
Speaker 1: And we have therapists that follow us, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: they can pipe in. But and I understand the like curiosity.
Speaker 1: I've been so curious about some of my therapists before,
Speaker 1: like I've tried to see if they have Instagram. I've
Speaker 1: definitely like checked to see, like, oh, what are their
Speaker 1: lives like? Because now it does feel one sided. They
Speaker 1: know everything about you and you know nothing. You know,
Speaker 1: so but I have learned over the years. That's like
Speaker 1: that's the like lean into that, like you don't need
Speaker 1: to take on anybody else's baggage. But like, you know,
Speaker 1: I know, I get the curiosity, but like, no commenting
Speaker 1: on your therapists Instagram page if you do find it.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no no. And so I mean I agree,
Speaker 4: it just sucks. I'm glad he got caught.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I'm curious about hypnosis, but it
Speaker 2: is pretty dangerous, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's another episode of this, right, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of hypnosis therapies. You know, child's identity where they made
Speaker 1: he made the kids have sucks with each other.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like with crimes, this kind of small you know,
Speaker 2: it's like many media outlets, but it's the same information
Speaker 2: over and over and over and all of them like
Speaker 2: it was one press release from the police department and
Speaker 2: that's that. And so I am curious, like did the
Speaker 2: writers really find this article?
Speaker 4: Do they have pings?
Speaker 2: Like is it just a concept of you know, bad
Speaker 2: bad therapists? But it made me, yeah, kind of wonder Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2: So the next case is the Shelby McDowell case, and
Speaker 2: this is a wedding crasher situation. So, Florida, October twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: twenty year old Shelby McDowell arrived at a Palm Coast
Speaker 2: wedding and she was wearing a black wig. In the beginning,
Speaker 2: she's a blunt and she was not invited, but she
Speaker 2: was there to spy on her boyfriend and named a
Speaker 2: man named Darby John's wild name.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: She saw him dancing and kissing another woman and rushed
Speaker 2: shover through a drink at the both of them and
Speaker 2: then punched her and she then fled to the bathroom
Speaker 2: where things escalated. McDowell says a few bridesmaids pulled her
Speaker 2: out by her feet and punched her to punish her
Speaker 2: for what she had done. And so but the resort
Speaker 2: officials say when they came in to break up the fight,
Speaker 2: that McDowell was actually on top of a victim, punching
Speaker 2: her in the face. So why, I don't know what
Speaker 2: happened in the bathroom. She was arrested and charged for battery.
Speaker 2: But the twist is very angered, goes west. John told
Speaker 2: police that he is not her boyfriend. She says they
Speaker 2: dated for two years. He also said that he was
Speaker 2: not kissing that woman either, that they were just walking
Speaker 2: to the dance floor when they were attacked. McDowell was
Speaker 2: arrested for battery and transported to the Flagler County Jail.
Speaker 2: She did say she was sorry to the Palm Beach
Speaker 2: Post that she was very apologetic towards the bride and
Speaker 2: groom and never intended for it to get so out
Speaker 2: of control. But what's funny to me is she's apologetic
Speaker 2: for ruining the wedding, but not to the woman she
Speaker 2: punched in the face, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Or nothing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, But it's also like, do you think that her
Speaker 1: and that guy were dating? Do you think that guy
Speaker 1: is just like lying and being like gaslighting and being like,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's been like secretly dating her for two
Speaker 1: years and then kind of like, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: we're not dating.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I because of the move, because of Ingrid goes west,
Speaker 2: they can believe it, and because I think people are
Speaker 2: out there being kookie. I mean, she looked like a
Speaker 2: good time girl. I'll say that much. But the wig
Speaker 2: I don't see.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I didn't get the impression that she's because even okay,
Speaker 2: you're if you were going out for two years and
Speaker 2: your boyfriend took someone else to a wedding or you
Speaker 2: weren't invited, that would be an issue beforehand. That would
Speaker 2: be like I'm going to the wedding, Like why would
Speaker 2: he take another person?
Speaker 4: Right right? Like he must be a real.
Speaker 2: Scum lord, like like but if they had an actual,
Speaker 2: real relationship for two years, this would be really bad behavior.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think maybe.
Speaker 3: He wasn't invited with a plus one, but he but
Speaker 3: and then he's dancing with this woman.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Tell us what you guys think, Yeah, if you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, this is not that old of a case.
Speaker 3: If anybody knows anything more about Shelby McDowell case, let
Speaker 3: us know.
Speaker 4: No, And it was like on the cut, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean? Yeah, that's where I was reading, because
Speaker 4: it's like.
Speaker 1: At everybody loves a wild met wedding meltdown, like everyone Yeah.
Speaker 2: A wedding crasher, punched in the face, getting dragged out
Speaker 2: by bridesmaids.
Speaker 1: Remember the woman he was than doing trying to do
Speaker 1: a spin move off of the pole in the middle
Speaker 1: of the dance and just took down the whole wedding tent.
Speaker 4: It was like a huge viral video like love that.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: Love that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this one's a little meteor. This is the
Speaker 2: Susan Polk case. She was a California woman, mother of
Speaker 2: three and ended up murdering her husband, who was her
Speaker 2: therapist when she was a teen.
Speaker 4: No, so very many layers here.
Speaker 2: She says that he took advantage of her when she
Speaker 2: was an underage patient, but basically her one of her
Speaker 2: sons found doctor Frank Felix Poke's dead body in the
Speaker 2: pool of the house that they shared, like in the
Speaker 2: backhouse guest house pool area.
Speaker 4: He called the police.
Speaker 2: They were rich mansion, huge house, like very wealthy in Arenda, Florida.
Speaker 2: And so it says California in your notes. Y, Yes,
Speaker 2: that's what I meant. Yeah, or Rinda, California, which is
Speaker 2: by San Francisco. And then so the son called the police,
Speaker 2: and around nine pm on October fourteenth, two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: the cops arrived and they found doctor Polk in the
Speaker 2: main room of the poolhouse on his back, lying in
Speaker 2: a bunch of blood. So the son, Gabriel Polk, was
Speaker 2: fifteen years old at the time, and to dispatchers he said,
Speaker 2: my mom shot my dad, who was seventy at the
Speaker 2: time of death. I'm adding that he did not say
Speaker 2: that to the dispatcher, but he was not shot. The
Speaker 2: kid just you know, was probably overwhelmed with all the blood.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no shootings. But the dad was dead twenty
Speaker 2: two hours prior to the body being found, and he
Speaker 2: was stabbed. He was stabbed more than twenty times, and
Speaker 2: he was also hit in the back of the head
Speaker 2: with a blunt object.
Speaker 4: So that's that.
Speaker 2: Gabe also told police that he was like waiting for
Speaker 2: his dad to go to a baseball game that afternoon,
Speaker 2: but by the time like nine pm rolled around, the
Speaker 2: dead didn't show up. He was like, maybe I should check,
Speaker 2: but the mom was like, oh, I don't know where
Speaker 2: your dad is. And so at nine pm, he like
Speaker 2: finally went and found his dad. There were no signs
Speaker 2: of a struggle or forced entry to the poolhouse, so
Speaker 2: more cops came. They interviewed Gabe and they learned that
Speaker 2: his parents had a failing marriage, and Susan then spoke
Speaker 2: to the police. She explained how she met him as
Speaker 2: a teen when she had behavioral issues and the school
Speaker 2: recommended that she see a therapist. He was twenty five
Speaker 2: years older than her, and her mother believed that he
Speaker 2: was taking advantage of her, and her mom claims that
Speaker 2: he raped her daughter by hypnotizing and drugging her. Susan, however,
Speaker 2: was in love with him and she did not see
Speaker 2: it as like abusive or exploitative. But the mom never
Speaker 2: reported him to the police, but she did make them
Speaker 2: stop seeing each other. So, you know, while she's a
Speaker 2: teen under her mom's roof, everything is chill. But then
Speaker 2: the relationship started back up when she was like around
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty in college. So while in college she sees
Speaker 2: this other therapist. She discloses the information, but instead of
Speaker 2: going to the police, which she should have done as
Speaker 2: like a mandatory reporter or something, he calls Polk's wife.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, what So then his wife wants a
Speaker 2: divorce with you know, doctor Felix, and he goes, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: we can get divorced.
Speaker 4: And then he marries Susan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, his twenty year old woman that he's like literally
Speaker 1: been svengaliing since she was a teen.
Speaker 4: Ugh, ugh, it's right.
Speaker 2: And they were married December nineteen eighty one and they
Speaker 2: had three sons, Adam, Eli and Gabriel. When the kids
Speaker 2: moved out, their marriage began to deteriorate, and she was
Speaker 2: planning on moving to Montana and like, you know, splitting
Speaker 2: from him, and it was just too much constant fighting.
Speaker 4: They were at each other's throats and she wanted out.
Speaker 2: But while she was away, police found out that Felix
Speaker 2: took steps against her in the divorce, so she like
Speaker 2: he got a restraining order against her to give himself
Speaker 2: sole custody of their children and sole possession of their home.
Speaker 2: So while she's in Montana trying to figure out her
Speaker 2: Eprey love second half of life under the Tuscan Sun,
Speaker 2: he's at home, plotting, going to lawyers and trying to
Speaker 2: fuck her over, fuck money over. Like he had her
Speaker 2: monthly payments reduced from six thousand to seventeen hundred dollars
Speaker 2: a month, and so when she saw what Felix did,
Speaker 2: she was fucking pissed. So she got her son Gabriel
Speaker 2: to help move his stuff into the guest house behind
Speaker 2: their home. She's like, fuck this, I'm staying in the mansion.
Speaker 2: He's getting into the poolhouse. And in three days before
Speaker 2: the murder, Felix had actually called nine one one to
Speaker 2: report a domestic dispute after his wife kicked him out
Speaker 2: of the main house and changed the locks on the doors.
Speaker 2: So so now we're getting into the nitty gritty of
Speaker 2: the evidence. Everything else is, you know, just setting up
Speaker 2: the scene of where they're at marriage wise, and maybe
Speaker 2: some motives. But Felix had a clump of hair in
Speaker 2: his hand at the murder scene, and the DNA proved
Speaker 2: that it did belong to his estranged wife, Susan. One question,
Speaker 2: she seemed very aloof. She was not shocked that her
Speaker 2: husband was dead, and she was like, oh, yeah, we
Speaker 2: were actually going to get divorced anyways.
Speaker 4: So I kind of obsessed with her, Okay.
Speaker 2: So she did eventually admit to doing it, but did
Speaker 2: claim self defense. She said there was a fight that happened,
Speaker 2: and he grabbed a knife and attacked her, and fearing
Speaker 2: for her life since she'd been abused before, she had
Speaker 2: to fight back. She argued self defense, but prosecutors and
Speaker 2: police did not believe her. She claims that, you know,
Speaker 2: he's a liar. He turned the kids against her and
Speaker 2: told the kids that she was mentally ill. But she
Speaker 2: did murder a man, so you know, he might have
Speaker 2: been onto something. Finally, in court, she decided to fire
Speaker 2: her lawyers and represent herself at this twenty two week
Speaker 2: long murder.
Speaker 4: Trial in two thousand and six.
Speaker 2: And let me tell you all the quotes of like
Speaker 2: all the other lawyers were like she fucking crushed. They
Speaker 2: were like her cross examination was killer. We don't know
Speaker 2: where she came from, Like everyone was praising her, like
Speaker 2: lawyer skills on the stand got but even like a
Speaker 2: wilder twist to this case. The trial was supposed to
Speaker 2: happen in two thousand and four, but Pamela Vitali, the
Speaker 2: wife of Polk's attorney Dan Horowitz, was found stabbed to
Speaker 2: death inside their home.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So a teen who lived nearby, Scott de Leski,
Speaker 2: was convicted of torturing this woman to death. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: the lawyer dropped out of the case. And then after
Speaker 2: Polk publicly suggested that he was involved in his wife's murder,
Speaker 2: why would she.
Speaker 1: She just didn't care. I mean, she's she's on one. Okay,
Speaker 1: she's on one.
Speaker 4: So it's whoever.
Speaker 2: Children did testify against her in court, and she then
Speaker 2: cross examined her sons.
Speaker 4: No, yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: Svu's even done that, had a mom representing herself cross
Speaker 1: examining her own kids.
Speaker 2: No, we gotta we gotta pitch, we gotta pitch something.
Speaker 1: Because imagine me being like Oskie, tell the truth to
Speaker 1: the court.
Speaker 4: Knock on wood. Yeah, so she was just like badger.
Speaker 2: You know, they were badgered by their own mom, and
Speaker 2: it got one, it got wild, and you know how
Speaker 2: women are.
Speaker 4: Usually judged and stuff.
Speaker 2: It probably doesn't look good because even in certain cases
Speaker 2: in SVU, the dude lawyers are like, you know, I
Speaker 2: can't be yelling at a schoolgirl up there, like you
Speaker 2: need to do it, you know, like optics do matter,
Speaker 2: and so like just watching her bade her sons on
Speaker 2: the stand. But one child, the middle child, Eli, did
Speaker 2: stand as her defense witness. The jury deliberated it for
Speaker 2: four days and did find her guilty of second degree
Speaker 2: murder of her husband and received a sentence of sixteen
Speaker 2: years to life. She was denied parole in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: and is not eligible again until twenty twenty nine. And Horowitz,
Speaker 2: the lawyer that you know, dealt with all that tragedy.
Speaker 2: He said, it's a shame because he really believed that
Speaker 2: she was clearly schizophrenic, but she would not allow him
Speaker 2: to use that in core, and so he's like, you know,
Speaker 2: should rather be convicted of murder than admit that she
Speaker 2: had mental issues?
Speaker 1: And if she had schizophrenia, it's hard to believe she
Speaker 1: would be so good at like crushing her defense.
Speaker 2: You know, Well it could have been one of her
Speaker 2: you know, split personality.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, we're being interesting.
Speaker 2: I feel like we have gone backwards in I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, split personnel like that.
Speaker 4: Is not schizophrenica. It's not schizophrenia.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I mean sure people suffering from schizophrenia
Speaker 1: have good days and bad days, But how can you
Speaker 1: be sure it's going to be a good day and
Speaker 1: crush it in court?
Speaker 4: Like I don't know. I mean, she probably had.
Speaker 1: Some diagnosis, but Also, she's been married to a man
Speaker 1: for twenty years who's a cheater and was setting her
Speaker 1: up to fuck her over, and also was probably manipulating
Speaker 1: her and gat lighting her for twenty years. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: he probably called her crazy every day.
Speaker 2: I know, But I wonder if this is like when
Speaker 2: a major league pitcher is, you know, high as a
Speaker 2: kite and just pitches a no hitter, Like yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: it's just the situation where she's just in.
Speaker 1: Her bag, you know, yeah, ready to go in her element.
Speaker 1: I love it all right, Well, thank you. Those were
Speaker 1: all quite interesting. If anyone has any more information about
Speaker 1: what happened at that wedding brawl, I'd really love to know.
Speaker 1: I'd really love to know if they were really dating
Speaker 1: or not. We suld like a pitch.
Speaker 2: We should make an internet video pleading for someone to
Speaker 2: reach it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come forward, please better yet the woman, let's get
Speaker 1: her on. Okay, we don't have a guest today, so
Speaker 1: let's get dive right into our post mortem a wedding
Speaker 1: I'm happy was ruined in this episode. I will say
Speaker 1: that this guy is a like, maybe one of my
Speaker 1: most hated villains in SVU history, because I hate that
Speaker 1: he made me believe him at the beginning, Like he
Speaker 1: was so committed to his own lie that I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy, they're not even showing the guy with a
Speaker 1: shifty eye. There are the shows making you think that
Speaker 1: this guy that there's some other reason, there's some other wild.
Speaker 4: Twist that's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: The twist is just that he's a psychopath, gaslighter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, raped his fucking wife too, or fiance. Thank god
Speaker 2: she didn't marry him. And it's arrogance. It all goes
Speaker 2: down to arrogance. You thought you were gonna get away
Speaker 2: with all these fucking lies. Of course he did, but
Speaker 2: nah no, But it's the case.
Speaker 1: So it's also freaky to think about someone like this,
Speaker 1: like fully chose psychotherapy as avenue because of what he
Speaker 1: knew he could accomplish with it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like he never was like, oh, I want to help
Speaker 1: people with their mental health problems. I think he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this would be a great way to control women and
Speaker 1: like get people to do what I want them to
Speaker 1: do and like be a crazy, like be a.
Speaker 2: Psychotic a position of authority. Yeah, you know that's what
Speaker 2: good the doctor, the trust of it all.
Speaker 4: Wait.
Speaker 2: I know we're on this episode and we're talking about
Speaker 2: just therapists, people taking advantage of their positions of power,
Speaker 2: all of that. SV has had a few like hypnosis
Speaker 2: therapy episodes, but there's new Scott Peterson stuff, and I
Speaker 2: feel like I have to really watch it because you know, I, uh,
Speaker 2: I didn't defend him.
Speaker 4: I know that he killed her. I just think the
Speaker 4: police work wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1: No, I hear what you're saying, but watching this doc
Speaker 1: the doc is making me fully like just his demeanor,
Speaker 1: like the way he hawks, the way he's talking to
Speaker 1: Amber knowing his wife is missing and he's not like
Speaker 1: telling her, And like, you.
Speaker 4: Know what's the new doc on? Is it Hulu or Netflix?
Speaker 2: It's on Netflix, Okay, because now they're all popping up
Speaker 2: all their stuff right now, so I don't know which
Speaker 2: one's the one that everyone's talking. I think it's called
Speaker 2: American Crime, the Lacy Peterson the Murder or something like that,
Speaker 2: or Disappearance of Lycy.
Speaker 4: I'd have to.
Speaker 2: Watch it before next week and have my full retraction.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because a few people have messaged us
Speaker 1: being like, ah, have you guys watched this but I
Speaker 1: watched an episode of it with my family, because you know,
Speaker 1: my family loves to get together when we're all together
Speaker 1: for our summer vacation and watch a bunch of fucking
Speaker 1: crazy true crime.
Speaker 4: So we watched an episode of that.
Speaker 1: Then I watched an episode at the end of my trip,
Speaker 1: just folding laundry the night before I left for the airport,
Speaker 1: and was like, I guess I'll tap back into this,
Speaker 1: And what's so crazy is like, maybe we talked about
Speaker 1: this when we originally did Scott Peterson, and I apologize
Speaker 1: if I'm repeating myself, but like we were so focused
Speaker 1: on the Amber Fry of it all, Like they were
Speaker 1: barely dating. They were dating a few a couple months
Speaker 1: or something when Lacy went missing, Like they were not
Speaker 1: dating for that long.
Speaker 4: Like everyone was like Amber Fry.
Speaker 1: Like when I remember the coverage of it, it was
Speaker 1: just Amberfry, like the affair, da da da dah, Like, yes,
Speaker 1: that's a huge smoking gun. Obviously, that's sallacious. But like,
Speaker 1: in my mind, I think she had something to do
Speaker 1: with it. Like when I was like young, listening to
Speaker 1: the coverage.
Speaker 4: Jaman A.
Speaker 1: She Monica Lewinsky exactly exactly what I was gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: it's literally the way the media framed it as this
Speaker 1: other woman. It's like she dated a nice guy that
Speaker 1: she who she thought was a nice guy that her
Speaker 1: friend set her up with, who said that his wife
Speaker 1: had passed away and he didn't want to have his
Speaker 1: own children, and that he wanted to be a father
Speaker 1: to her kid. She was that's all this woman was doing.
Speaker 1: Then she wore a fucking wire to help the police.
Speaker 1: She didn't have to do any of that in this thing.
Speaker 1: They're talking about how good of an actress she was.
Speaker 1: They're like, we didn't tell her what to say. This
Speaker 1: bitch knew how to get stuff out of him. She
Speaker 1: was full cooperating and helping the cops. She called the
Speaker 1: cops to tell them that she was dating him. Like,
Speaker 1: and it's just crazy to me how in my mind
Speaker 1: Amber Fry was a villain in this because Lacey was
Speaker 1: like the girl. It's like, oh, in every story there
Speaker 1: has to be like the good girl and the bad girl,
Speaker 1: and like that's kind of not what it was at all. No, anyway,
Speaker 1: that's my little that's my little soap box on that.
Speaker 1: But I got to finish. There's three episodes of it,
Speaker 1: and I haven't watched the third episode, so I got
Speaker 1: to finish it.
Speaker 4: We'll both we'll both do that for next time.
Speaker 2: Oh and we talked about this earlier because we're talking
Speaker 2: about long legs and Nicholas Cage. But I also want
Speaker 2: to say I rewatched Renfield again and we interviewed one
Speaker 2: of the actresses from it. And remember when I met
Speaker 2: Ben Schwartz, He's like, it's a bond, like no one likes.
Speaker 2: It's not doing well. I've watched it like four times.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 4: You love it. I love it. I really do. So
Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe I'm a fan. Maybe I'll watch
Speaker 4: it on a plane. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I just read the worst fucking book for my book club,
Speaker 1: and I'm so annoyed that I spent so much time
Speaker 1: reading it.
Speaker 4: It was so bad.
Speaker 1: It's called The Unwedding and it's literally the log like
Speaker 1: the press line for it is like white Lotus meets
Speaker 1: Agatha Christie, and it's like, fuck you, that is not
Speaker 1: this at all. I could However, as I was reading it,
Speaker 1: I was like, this could easily be optioned and turned
Speaker 1: into a great television show with good writers. Turning this
Speaker 1: garbage garbage book into a good because like just the
Speaker 1: setup of it is like a good concept or whatever,
Speaker 1: but it's it's so bad. I went to book club
Speaker 1: and I go and I just walked in the door,
Speaker 1: and I was like, who's ready to shit on this
Speaker 1: book with me?
Speaker 4: Like everybody, like.
Speaker 1: Everybody hated it, but only two people finished it, Me
Speaker 1: and on other person. And that made me annoyed to like,
Speaker 1: I just why am I in a book club? Why
Speaker 1: am I rushing to finish these books when no one's
Speaker 1: reading them? But whatever, the person who recommended the book
Speaker 1: didn't finish it, and you know who it is, and
Speaker 1: it's just annoying anyway, so I will.
Speaker 4: Anyway, the.
Speaker 1: Person who recommended it did not finish it.
Speaker 4: It did not get to a pivotal part of it.
Speaker 1: I go, well, then after the disaster happened, She goes,
Speaker 1: when did that happen? I'm like, the first third of
Speaker 1: the book, Like, she did not even get close to
Speaker 1: finishing it.
Speaker 4: That's what you get for being in a book club,
Speaker 4: you fucking nerd.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I'm trying to read more
Speaker 1: and book clubs like hold me accountable because I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got to finish because I don't want to be
Speaker 1: the only person at the thing that hasn't read it,
Speaker 1: And then every time I go, I'm like one of
Speaker 1: the only people per people who has read it. But
Speaker 1: send me good book, Rex, you know what I want
Speaker 1: to read All Fours by Miranda July.
Speaker 4: Okay, I want to read that book. I don't know
Speaker 4: why you're pointing at me.
Speaker 1: I'm pointing at you because I have some gossip noted
Speaker 1: in your brain. Okay, anyway, I thought maybe you knew
Speaker 1: who about you knew of her anyway, but that's not
Speaker 1: what I have to tell you.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 1: The fucking takeaway from this episode is, don't I know
Speaker 1: your therapist knows a lot about you. I know your
Speaker 1: therapist might act like they care for you genuinely, but
Speaker 1: there needs to be a boundary between people and therapists.
Speaker 1: Don't date your therapist. Don't marry your therapists. I don't
Speaker 1: care if they're done your therapist. It's not a good
Speaker 1: idea and scene or scene wait on.
Speaker 4: We have to move on. But we haven't seen each
Speaker 4: other in a while. Okay.
Speaker 2: One I did go to a secret domino night and
Speaker 2: I played dominoes at like a closed down restaurant where
Speaker 2: we got to smoke weed inside my friend DJ for
Speaker 2: a little bit of it.
Speaker 3: I won a few games. It felt incredible. I bet
Speaker 3: that was the night of your life.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 2: And then oh, I so I'm gonna go again next month,
Speaker 2: I think, but it's once a month. But guess what,
Speaker 2: So October, I think it's going to coincide with another
Speaker 2: dream event where I am judging. I'm on the judging
Speaker 2: panel of the Simpsons Trivia costume contest William for O October.
Speaker 2: I already bought part of my costume. I'm not in
Speaker 2: the competition. Mine's gonna be kind of basic. But I
Speaker 2: get to judge, and I'm so excited. It's like Domino Nights,
Speaker 2: Simpson's judging.
Speaker 4: I'm like, Ah, New York.
Speaker 1: I'm a person that's planning to go to the You
Speaker 1: listen to our podcast, you got a leg up. You
Speaker 1: know what Lisa will like. She's gonna like the deep
Speaker 1: cut costumes. You got to get in there. That's my
Speaker 1: tip to you. Maybe go back listen to some of
Speaker 1: our episodes where she talks about specific Simpson's references. Quickly
Speaker 1: go back and leave through two hundred episodes of this podcast,
Speaker 1: you can figure it out.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: For my birthday dinner that's happening this week, I was
Speaker 2: trying to make everyone dress like Carrie Bradshaw and then
Speaker 2: it hit me and I'm like what am I doing?
Speaker 4: And I canceled the theme.
Speaker 2: I said, please just wear whatever you want and everyone
Speaker 2: was so relieved.
Speaker 1: Like so, it's like, my brother is going to Fire
Speaker 1: Island this week on Friday, and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's so fun. And he was like yeah,
Speaker 1: but they're like making us bring all these costumes and
Speaker 1: stuff and he's like not into it. And I'm like
Speaker 1: that's the fun part. Like he's like so not into
Speaker 1: the costumes and the dressing up, and like I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get him to embrace Wait.
Speaker 2: Should we all dress now? Because he's so boring in
Speaker 2: terms of wardrobe. I was like, should we all dress
Speaker 2: like our friends? Who's turning? But like, what are we
Speaker 2: gonna wear?
Speaker 4: Like Swell, he's been wearing a lot of tank tops lately.
Speaker 4: I might get into a tank It's so funny.
Speaker 2: That's what Lane said to me when I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm thinking what's to get for Michael, and
Speaker 2: he said he's wearing a lot of tank tops, so
Speaker 2: I guess people have noticed from coast to coast.
Speaker 4: Oh, Michael's been tanking lately, tanking hard. So funny.
Speaker 1: Really, I'm about to take and seef he wants to
Speaker 1: go to the beach this weekend.
Speaker 2: Wait, but at your brother's house. There was a moment
Speaker 2: where I went, hey, Oscar, can you bring me my hat?
Speaker 2: And both you and jured were like, he's not gonna
Speaker 2: do it, and he did. So It's amazing. Oscar doesn't
Speaker 2: do anything we ask him to do. So you have
Speaker 2: a once again, you have a power over my children
Speaker 2: and Rose both of them grabbed me things while I
Speaker 2: was in the body of water and didn't want to
Speaker 2: get out. And then while we were in the pool,
Speaker 2: we kept making the kids check to see how hot,
Speaker 2: if the hot tub was hot enough for us, We
Speaker 2: kept being like, is that a way?
Speaker 3: Yet?
Speaker 1: She loved the stickers you brought her when we were
Speaker 1: packing for camps. She was like, what about my stickers
Speaker 1: from Lee's. I was like, I have them.
Speaker 2: Well, she's so mature because she used on her face
Speaker 2: like she used the shitty stickers that were just like
Speaker 2: the brand name and like the filler stickers on the sheet,
Speaker 2: and she was like, I'm saving the good stickers for later.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, you're maturing already, Like you know,
Speaker 2: you got to take care of your stickers.
Speaker 4: She does.
Speaker 1: She knows what's a quality sticker, what's not. Let's move
Speaker 1: on to our what would this your peg do? This
Speaker 1: is our weekly segment where we point you guys towards,
Speaker 1: you know, a book, an article, something that gives you
Speaker 1: more information about what we talked about today. And today
Speaker 1: I wanted to point you to a Psychology Today article
Speaker 1: titled are You Being Gaslighted? I think I hear people
Speaker 1: a lot of times misusing gaslighting. I don't think everybody
Speaker 1: understands what it means. I think people sometimes mean it's
Speaker 1: somebody yelling at you to amp you up, or something
Speaker 1: like that to get you, Matt, And that's not what
Speaker 1: gaslighting is. And I think we don't really talk enough
Speaker 1: about how much gaslighting is used in abusive relationships, which
Speaker 1: obviously is what's happening in this episode a lot.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: The article outlines the multiple stages of gaslighting, disbelief, defense, depression.
Speaker 1: It also details all the signs on how to know
Speaker 1: if you're being gaslet. So for more information head over
Speaker 1: to Psychology Today dot com. The link is in our
Speaker 1: show notes for today. It's also going to be in
Speaker 1: our stories the day that this episode comes out, and
Speaker 1: then saved forever in our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page.
Speaker 1: And if you're not following on our Instagram page, What's
Speaker 1: What's Up? It's That's Messed Up Pod. It's where we
Speaker 1: post homework, It's where we post fun little videos and stories,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's where we can.
Speaker 4: Talk to a lot of you.
Speaker 1: Actually, Also, if you're trying to get in touch with us,
Speaker 1: dm us babies.
Speaker 2: And next week, please keep continue joining us forever and ever.
Speaker 2: We will be doing the episode titled Mama from season nineteen,
Speaker 2: episode twenty two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and come see us live and we love you guys,
Speaker 1: See you next week. That's Messed Up as an exactly
Speaker 1: write production. If you have compliments you'd like to give
Speaker 1: us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us
Speaker 1: an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at.
Speaker 1: Glitter Cheese As always, please see our show notes for
Speaker 1: sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.
Speaker 1: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly gen
Speaker 2: Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media dot dun