1
00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:05,200
Speaker 1: And so he wanted me to know like he's seeking

2
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: me out, not the other way around. The problem carry

3
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: and this is something that I had to unpack as

4
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 1: I got older that I never really talked about is

5
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,800
Speaker 1: I got that letter during the Final four and I

6
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,119
Speaker 1: was so not ready for that. So you guessed it.

7
00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: The infamous and famous Fab five member Jalen Rose on

8
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:47,519
Speaker 1: the podcast today Getting Naked. Every champion and every champion

9
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,239
Speaker 1: is to be a champion of Champion and carry Champion,

10
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 1: and carry Champiana Champion and carry Champion, and carry champions

11
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 1: and sports and entertainment connect in the world of vulnerable considered.

12
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 1: We come and motivail from entertainments elite. It's the difference

13
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,039
Speaker 1: between what it's real and with the public seas. So

14
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: here's your favorite celebrities behind the scenes. It's refreshing. Then

15
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: the whole story specific life all to rendivents to shake

16
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 1: the person that you hear. We gotta champion. They carry Champion.

17
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 1: They did it. It's the greatest of sports and entertaining.

18
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,520
Speaker 1: Can Naked with Harry Champion. They carry champions. To be

19
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 1: a champion, a champion, they carry Champion, they Champion, they

20
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,560
Speaker 1: carry Champion, they carry Champion Sportson and the Taming and

21
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 1: Naked Today, our guest is Um, a friend, a colleague,

22
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 1: and excellent NBA player NBA Vett retired. Most notable though,

23
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 1: if I have to be honest, for me, I came

24
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 1: to know one Jalen Rose when he was playing at

25
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 1: the University of Michigan. Y'all know the Fab Five and

26
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 1: if you don't do your homework excellent documentary on ESPN

27
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: produced by Jalen Rose that tells the story of a

28
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: group of kids who we're from the streets, who did

29
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 1: something special you know what I mean, And by special,

30
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,760
Speaker 1: I mean change the way we see college basketball unbeknownst

31
00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 1: to them. I believe in the process. But they were

32
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: able as freshman's sophomores make it to the championship game.

33
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: A lot of I think a lot of rules were

34
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: made and brules were broken, uh to introduce them as

35
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,639
Speaker 1: they were in terms of the Fab Five. But Jalen

36
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 1: Rose is just much more than the Fab five, right

37
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,040
Speaker 1: he is. Um. He's a good guy. He's a friend,

38
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,799
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, and I'm I like telling the

39
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 1: story of people that I know but actually knowing more

40
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,919
Speaker 1: about them. So when I interviewed him. In particular, it

41
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,799
Speaker 1: was to find out what I didn't know, and his

42
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 1: story is layered in deep. I didn't know his father

43
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 1: was a number one draft pick. I didn't know he

44
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,639
Speaker 1: didn't know his dad. I didn't know that there were

45
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 1: letters or a letter written from his father that really

46
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: perhaps affected him while playing in a very important game.

47
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 1: I share all this with you all to tell you

48
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,239
Speaker 1: that this story is special. And Jalyn took some time

49
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,959
Speaker 1: to really get naked for us, and I appreciate you,

50
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,639
Speaker 1: my friend. We'll pick it up where he starts talking

51
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 1: about you know what made you? I love to ask

52
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 1: that question because we have energetic imprints of our family

53
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,960
Speaker 1: members on us as we become adults. And he has

54
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 1: a very special story. Jalen Rose gets naked. I hope

55
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 1: you all enjoy it. While I'm in this single parent situation,

56
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: the youngest of four, I never met my biological father,

57
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 1: who was the number one pick in the nineteen seven

58
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:33,400
Speaker 1: NBA draft. I always felt like I was more special

59
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 1: than everybody else. I used to say that when I

60
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 1: was young, I had a rational confidence, like people see

61
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 1: me talk trash. When I got to college that it

62
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: just start. Then you know that I've been doing that

63
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 1: my entire life. It was almost away of survival sometimes

64
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And so even though we

65
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 1: were poor, the entire block, the entire neighborhood, the entire

66
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,320
Speaker 1: community was as well. So I didn't necessarily feel like

67
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 1: it because you get teased about anything anyway, Bumps on

68
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: your face, being skinny, having patches in your parts, holes

69
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: and your shoes. People gonna tease you anyway, you know,

70
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 1: And and then you realize sometimes people are gonna tease

71
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: you that can also beat you in the fight. So

72
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,240
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta accept it and live to see

73
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: another day. And so for me, it was about survival.

74
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,000
Speaker 1: It was about having a goal of trying to take

75
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 1: my family out of the neighborhood. I never liked having

76
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,040
Speaker 1: kerosene heaters in the house. There were certain some there

77
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: were certain winners where we didn't have heat, and I

78
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 1: boil water to wash up that type of thing, But

79
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 1: it didn't feel abnormal because we weren't the only family

80
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 1: on the block that was required to do that. But

81
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 1: I definitely was always felt like I was driven to

82
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 1: do something special, but it takes a long time to

83
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 1: get there. If you didn't have to boil water growing up,

84
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,720
Speaker 1: then you're not a real one and you can't be

85
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Okay, no doubt, No doubt. I tolst that.

86
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,480
Speaker 1: I was like that, if you didn't have water, you

87
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: too fancy mm hmm. Correct. What I have noticed about

88
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:32,280
Speaker 1: you is your incredible and I don't know if it

89
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 1: is a personality that that you've learned growing up, but

90
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,280
Speaker 1: you're an incredible way of connecting people. As long as

91
00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 1: I've known you, you've always been a connector. You've always

92
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: been easy. And some people might say, oh, he politicking,

93
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,039
Speaker 1: you know, that's that word we use, right, But why

94
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,480
Speaker 1: not why not just try to get along? Why not

95
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 1: try to make people come together? Why not be pleasant

96
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,599
Speaker 1: when the situation isn't pleasant? Where does that come from?

97
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,840
Speaker 1: It came from being a have not and always feeling

98
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 1: and appreciating the people that I saw give back to

99
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,279
Speaker 1: me in their own way. And it wasn't only always

100
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: about money. So like my grandfather, Paramour Hicks Senior, Bainbridge, Georgia,

101
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 1: we used to go down there in the summer. He

102
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 1: had a grocery store, so he had his house, but

103
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 1: he turned the you know, the garage into a like

104
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 1: a grocery store, a penny candy store. And he was

105
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 1: always like Immack Lee dress. He always had nice hats.

106
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,919
Speaker 1: He used to smoke cigarettes and he used to smoke cools,

107
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: and he used to always tell me, don't smoke cool,

108
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: be cool. And then he started calling me long boy

109
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 1: when I was young, because obviously I was taller whatever.

110
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 1: So that's what my grandparents and my mother and uncle's

111
00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 1: called me and my family since I was young, and

112
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:07,120
Speaker 1: like like like like just growing, continuing to like see

113
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 1: role models in my life. His son, Paramour Hicks Jr.

114
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 1: Was like the Muhammad Ali and my family. He worked

115
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 1: at the plant forty plus hours a week. I'm gonna

116
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: get this double time. I'm gonna work saturdays. But he

117
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 1: also was a great artist. He's the president of the

118
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 1: bowling league, the president of the community block club. Like

119
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 1: he was that person drive past the house and check

120
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 1: on everybody and bring food at night. And so I

121
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 1: had those people in my life. I had an older brother,

122
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: I had two older I have two older brothers, and

123
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 1: so I I have a really great family. Dynamic, had

124
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,840
Speaker 1: a great high school coach, and Perry Watson was like

125
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: a father figure to me. And and Martin. You know,

126
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: during the five years, his name took a lot of slander,

127
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 1: but for those that don't know, like the money that

128
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: he ended up getting was because he worked at the

129
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 1: plant and he got an eye injured and that was

130
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 1: his settlement money. And he was basically somebody that was

131
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: just trying to influence young people in the community ten

132
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: years before I ever got to Southwestern. So like seeing

133
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 1: other people give and I'm I don't talk about it

134
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 1: a lot publicly, but I have a tattoo to say

135
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: God's favorite. Like, my faith is really strong. And we

136
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 1: joke as black people that our faith had better been

137
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 1: strong at the four or fifty years of slavery and

138
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 1: all the hymns and all the stuff we've gone through, Right,

139
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,120
Speaker 1: but my faith is really strong. So I think all

140
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 1: of those things kind of carried me to the point

141
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,079
Speaker 1: where if I had something to give back, I was

142
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 1: willing to do it. And it just as I started

143
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,959
Speaker 1: to be able to give back more, I tried to

144
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,319
Speaker 1: do it more responsibly, but also try to do it

145
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,199
Speaker 1: where it could be meaningful. He mentioned you mentioned the

146
00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,960
Speaker 1: male figures, strong male figures in your life, but you also,

147
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 1: I said, your father wasn't there and you never you

148
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:03,920
Speaker 1: never met him? Is that as of late? Have you

149
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 1: met your father? So Jimmy Walker died in the late

150
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,840
Speaker 1: two thousand's, I believe it was two thousand and seven,

151
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 1: and I went to his funeral with Dave, being they

152
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: were back court mates with the Pistons and I was young.

153
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 1: I did my entail. I was like, oh, the reason

154
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,959
Speaker 1: why he ain't around is because because I has basketball

155
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 1: cur I'm like, you know, he had traded in December,

156
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 1: but I was born in January, so in my mind

157
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 1: as a kid, I validated it. So I didn't really

158
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 1: even asked my mother about my father or about our

159
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,199
Speaker 1: circumstances or surroundings. I saw what it was. He just

160
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 1: wasn't there, so I wasn't gonna burden her with it.

161
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna be what he was supposed

162
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 1: to be mine. So he wore number twenty four in

163
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 1: high school. I wore number forty two out of spite mhm.

164
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 1: I was like, he gonna know my name, and I'm

165
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,680
Speaker 1: gonna make a name for myself and for my family,

166
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 1: And so I did use that as motivation. Definitely, coming

167
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,559
Speaker 1: from a single parent situation, never knowing my father, knowing

168
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 1: that he also was a professional athlete that allegedly had

169
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: thirteen kids by eleven women. Wow. Wow, you know what

170
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: that's called? Right when you when you don't talk about

171
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,319
Speaker 1: something that's blatantly missing in your life, do you know?

172
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 1: My therapist told me that's called fragmentation. My father wasn't

173
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 1: around and we never talked about it, and I thought

174
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:46,960
Speaker 1: that was dope. Like, I never brought it up until

175
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,560
Speaker 1: it was time for me to bring it up because

176
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,079
Speaker 1: other kids bring it up. So you talked about it.

177
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 1: But it causes something that wasn't familiar with. It's called fragmentation,

178
00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 1: which sometimes forces us to to to question our realities

179
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 1: because we don't know what's right and what's wrong or

180
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 1: what's real or is that real? Or is that really happening?

181
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: And I've seen that play out in my life. I'm like,

182
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: what I see is different from what everybody else sees.

183
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 1: There's this fragmentation there because no one's talking about it.

184
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,559
Speaker 1: It's the elephant in the room for two Uh, he

185
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna know me, but it's never talked about. How do

186
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: you how do you see and you may not feel

187
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,960
Speaker 1: like it's fragmentation, but how do you see that disconnect

188
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 1: playing out when you become this the superstar player on

189
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,679
Speaker 1: that First of all, I'm obviously collegiate level, that's when

190
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,319
Speaker 1: the world knew you. But you had this level of

191
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 1: fame prior to you get to the collegiate level. And

192
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,480
Speaker 1: it's crazy. Do you see it playing out your father

193
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: not being there now that you look back on it,

194
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 1: because hindsight is always cliche. Yes, And that fragmentation played

195
00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,520
Speaker 1: out via jealousy. And I always looked at grand Hill

196
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:06,199
Speaker 1: as somebody that had the life that I wanted, and

197
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,959
Speaker 1: like many when the Cosby Show happened or the Jefferson's happened,

198
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 1: like to see families together that were well dressed, they

199
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 1: were well spoken, that were like entrepreneurs like that, that

200
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,560
Speaker 1: was rare. So I looked up to people like Don

201
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 1: Cornelius on Soul Train, and I knew that he made

202
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 1: sure that they never got the answer wrong because he

203
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: never wanted to make us look bad, and he was

204
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,960
Speaker 1: putting on all of the artists and the allowing us

205
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,679
Speaker 1: to express ourselves. You know, like there's a many years

206
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 1: that we've been you know, suppressed, and so that is

207
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 1: a level of fragmentation. You're right, and out of sight,

208
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 1: out of mind for me allowed me to stay focused

209
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,959
Speaker 1: on myself and not try to take on a lot

210
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,600
Speaker 1: out of pain or anger or disappointment of a relationship

211
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: that I wasn't old enough to nurture what might be

212
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,839
Speaker 1: the results of it. So I got a letter from

213
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,079
Speaker 1: him while I was in college, and he wrote it

214
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,839
Speaker 1: because Mitch Album was doing the fare five book and

215
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,400
Speaker 1: he was never seeking to like, you know, get in

216
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 1: my shadow or nothing like that. He had his own career.

217
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,439
Speaker 1: He's a better player than me. He has it like

218
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 1: forty in college, like he was a beast, And so

219
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,439
Speaker 1: he wanted me to know like he's seeking me out,

220
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 1: not the other way around. The problem carry and this

221
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,839
Speaker 1: is something that I had to unpack as I got

222
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,560
Speaker 1: older that I never really talked about is I got

223
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 1: that letter during the Final four and I was so

224
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,679
Speaker 1: not ready for that. That wasn't the time. I wasn't

225
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 1: ready for that. But set the set the scene. Set

226
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,959
Speaker 1: the scene for the folks who may not know the

227
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: legacy of the Fab five in the Final four and

228
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 1: when you get this, so like one of the beautiful

229
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 1: things about the Five five brotherhood, shout the seaweb Juwan

230
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: Ray and Jimmy and shout to the Wolverines. Finally beat

231
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 1: Ohio State. We're gonna act like we do. That's that's congratulations.

232
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: I substitute that being Buck Eye. Y'all know how we

233
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: do it. You know what I mean. Shout to my

234
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 1: brother Jim Jackson. So many cats like I love for

235
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 1: Ohio stage. You know what it is. Um and So,

236
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: being a member of the Fab Five, Mitch Album, who

237
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 1: covered the team, ultimately wrote a best selling book about

238
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 1: our group. And he had the access because obviously he

239
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 1: was working in the media, and so while he was

240
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 1: writing that book, he was called clearly reaching out to

241
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 1: certain people to talk to about it, and Jimmy Walker

242
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: was one of the people he reached out to. Jimmy

243
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,520
Speaker 1: Jimmy don't necessarily want to do it, but Jimmy wrote

244
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 1: me a letter to said that he did it, and

245
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 1: da la la. Anyway, Mitch got the letter and he

246
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 1: gave it to me the night before the game. And

247
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 1: by no means is he the reason why we win

248
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: the championship. I'm blaming him. I'm making a connect by

249
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: no means, But I can't front like the Carolina game.

250
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 1: People look at seaway of time out, like that's my

251
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 1: brother and I'm a teammate. And if you ever played

252
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 1: team sports or like really being invested in something, you

253
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: really love the people that you're rocking with, everybody, when

254
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 1: you lose, go look at what they could have did better,

255
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 1: include me. And I feel like that was the worst

256
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 1: game I played in the year, not even close. Like

257
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 1: this is not the rest of the world saying it,

258
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 1: this is me saying it. And as I got older,

259
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute, I'm still walking around

260
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 1: with this same letter seven years ago that I got

261
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 1: as a college kid that I wasn't ready to open then.

262
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 1: So clearly that has some mental trauma because I didn't

263
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 1: open it until seven years later. I carried around like

264
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: lanus in a in a blanket, like just with me

265
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 1: everywhere I went, just kept it Kevin in the backpack,

266
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: Kevin and and stuff, kept it with me, with me,

267
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 1: with me, with me. Never opened it. I ain't open

268
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 1: it until I was in the league and I was like,

269
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 1: you know what I'm about to I'm about to read this.

270
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 1: It was the last dance year. That was the year

271
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 1: I actually actually read it too, m hmm. And in

272
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,240
Speaker 1: the letter, he just let me know that he wasn't

273
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: trying to ride my coattail or nothing like that, that

274
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: he was proud of me. It was all positive, and

275
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 1: we kept some dialogue and I told him I was

276
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 1: gonna try to come see him. I never tried to. Uh,

277
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to go see him. Ultimately, he ended

278
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: up passing, but I did get a chance to tell

279
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,840
Speaker 1: him I love him. I'm I'm grateful for him that.

280
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 1: You know, he gave me the basketball jeans and him

281
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,360
Speaker 1: not being in around gave me the motivation. It gave

282
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 1: me the courage. Do you know how um much pain

283
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:26,160
Speaker 1: I hear in that statement. I'm pretty sure it exists.

284
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: So people see me now, right, they like he got

285
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: new years now, Yeah, these from years I got as

286
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 1: soon as I got dreamed. You look good, you look good,

287
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 1: you look good. You know, he growing his hair out.

288
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 1: Like I look back at pictures of me when I

289
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:52,159
Speaker 1: was in college, ball head, bumpy face, bad team, Jalen

290
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: like he was hazardous to my health? What do you mean?

291
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: Why was that Jalen hazardous to your health? Because he

292
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 1: he had no filter and he was uh, he was

293
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 1: willing to be reckless. And he was also willing to

294
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,879
Speaker 1: not only do that for himself, but definitely willing to

295
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 1: do it for the people that he loved. Like that's that,

296
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 1: That's just that, that was just the nature of a young,

297
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 1: angry person that I was. And I think back to

298
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: this interview that we had when we was about to

299
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 1: play Duke and we was all sitting there and I

300
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: was like, I don't have a fresh cut, Like I'm broke.

301
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 1: I don't even want to do this right now. I

302
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 1: don't even that's not even what you should have been

303
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,159
Speaker 1: worried about, right Like to me, I was like, I

304
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 1: don't even feel like doing this right now. And it

305
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: was the one when we like and you hear it

306
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 1: and I said, I said, oh, what up? Detroit can't

307
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: get a fresh cut every day, you know what I mean?

308
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: Like that was the insecurity. I was broke. I couldn't

309
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 1: get a fresh cut, and like, I'm on national I'm

310
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,439
Speaker 1: on the big stage. So yes, I I look at

311
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 1: my younger self and I do see his anger. I

312
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: do see his pain in frustration with family, with society

313
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 1: and all of that. And so I'm I'm I'm so

314
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 1: very fortunate that I've been able to mature and over

315
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 1: overcome a lot of that anger and that hostility that

316
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 1: I had in my head, in my heart, and also

317
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: the way that the men of your life that were

318
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: in your life poured back into you. You know, the

319
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,199
Speaker 1: way in which how you describe your grandfather and how

320
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 1: people take care of you. UM, and showed you things

321
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 1: that you remember. I see that playing out because I

322
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 1: met Jalen, met him, knew of him way before, but

323
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: met him, uh when he was an adult. UM. You

324
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 1: know what you I don't know if you remember this.

325
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,199
Speaker 1: I have told you to remember the time I met

326
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: you at the bar with my homegirl and you was

327
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 1: trying to holler at her. Remember that before I Before

328
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 1: I got he said, here's the thing. Am I with

329
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 1: my homegirl in l A. We're in downtown, I think,

330
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,439
Speaker 1: And maybe you were already working at ESPN, but you weren't.

331
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: You know, Jalen Rose NBA analysts at ESPN, but she

332
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: was an analyst. And my home girl comes in. She

333
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 1: was bad, like you're bad broad and I remember bad.

334
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 1: He probably like six one light skin mix, you know,

335
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 1: yo m O. And and we're all sitting there and

336
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: I was working at the Tennis Channel at the time.

337
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 1: When we were talking and he was at my girl,

338
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: like at her, but real respectful, not inappropriate. I don't

339
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: have a disrespectful story. And I was like, yeah, no,

340
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna Tennischanna. I'll bet you I'll probably wear he

341
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: ESPN sooner. He's like, good for you, like kind of

342
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, how many broads at me telling me

343
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 1: that's where they're gonna work, and and and and then

344
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: and then you and my friend exchanged numbers. I don't

345
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: know whatever happened. And she wasn't like a close friend.

346
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 1: She was something somebody was hanging out with for a

347
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: couple of years. But y'all exchanged numbers and y'all hung out,

348
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: and he was real smooth with it. He was just like,

349
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: let me let me call you. And she was trying

350
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: to and she was trying to act like she wasn't excited,

351
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 1: but she was excited. She went to the bathroom. She

352
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: was excited to talk to you. She's like, oh my god.

353
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: And I thought it was I thought it was cute.

354
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: I felt the way I felt away because you ignored me.

355
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: But I was like, my ego, my ego as big

356
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: as hell. I was like, I'm bad too. I know

357
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: I ain't light skinned with good hair, but still I'm cute.

358
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: And then don't try to smooth it out now and then,

359
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: which was great because to me, I think God works

360
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: in mysterious ways. Because I didn't get to experience you

361
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: like that. I'm pretty sure you don't know who that is.

362
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: I don't remember her name either at the time. But

363
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: the reality is is that I got to meet you

364
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: in a real, full experience a way when I worked

365
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: with you, and there wasn't none of this awkwardness like

366
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 1: we were all so it all works. It worked out perfectly. Um,

367
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 1: But I do remember thinking, what a nice macau you

368
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 1: know you meet you live in l A. You meet

369
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: athletes all the time, and then it's not always the

370
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: best story. You meet famous people all the time. It's

371
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 1: not always the best story. But I remember you being

372
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: like good for you try it like encouraging. That's why

373
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: I said, you always have the ability to be kind

374
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: no matter what. You should always know your surroundings and

375
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: your circumstances. So for that I appreciate you. Whether people

376
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: want to believe, because I do know that when we're

377
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: really kind, people don't want to believe it. We always

378
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: want to think the worst. We think there's some agenda

379
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: behind people being kind, and that's just not the case.

380
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: So then here you go. You are coming off of

381
00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: I think arguably, if not the most defining moment in

382
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: college sports. What you all did with the Fab five

383
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: really redefined what college athletics look like for basketball players,

384
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: for black men specific leagues, very very similarly to what

385
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: Alan Iverson did for when he decided to change the

386
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: face of the game. People develop when you don't live

387
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: up to that level of excellence or people say you

388
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: haven't lived up to that level of excellence, i e.

389
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: For you not winning the national championship. People develop habits.

390
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: They either have like they try to medicate their way

391
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: through the disappointment, whether that be at all in drinking,

392
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: or people lie and and create different realities. How did

393
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: you cope with not winning? Did you have to medicate?

394
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, you went to the league, But did

395
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: you have to medicate? Did you have to find a

396
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: way to cope with what wasn't No matter how popular

397
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: you guys were, at the end of the day, you know,

398
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: everybody want to win it all. We're competitives, all, correct. So,

399
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, I'm from the northwest side of Detroit.

400
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: I was born in seventy three, raised in the eighties

401
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: during the Reagan crack era, and a lot of cities,

402
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: clearly the entire nation and urban communities were affected, and

403
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: and Detroit were was hit hard, if not just as hard.

404
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: And so I've been hardened by my upbringing. And as

405
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: I'm older now, man, I look back at it and

406
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: it just it's just like a great foundation that I

407
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: could keep building on and building on and building on,

408
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: and and it's like, well, it's like Ashford and Simpson.

409
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: You build it up and build it up, and dude,

410
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: we're slid. So like that, that's that's kind of how

411
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: I am approach, like the journey and the things that

412
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: I've overcome that were failures, because a lot of times

413
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: what you may see as a success accomplishing the goal,

414
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: accomplishing a dream, everybody else can still try to act

415
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: like on ain't all that y'all won the championship, but

416
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: you only have five points. Oh, y'all have a six

417
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: game win streak, but you ain't play right. So people

418
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: can always minimize what you do, no matter what it is. Hey, Brian,

419
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: you got fold championships, but hey, you had to go

420
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: to three different teams like it can always made right.

421
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: So when I was in high school going to Southwestern,

422
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: our school had lost the state championship eight years in

423
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: a row before I got there. Okay, I played jv

424
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: my freshman year and I played varsity my sophomore year.

425
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: My sophomore year, we won the pr CL, We won

426
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: the city, and we lost the state championship for the

427
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: ninth consecutive time. It was like Jerry West of your Lakers.

428
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: It was crazy, right, And my junior year, going into

429
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: that season, there was a writer that still rights in Detroit.

430
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: Shout to McK McCabe. I'll say your name good, Mick McKay.

431
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: You know feel good. I love you, you know what

432
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Uh. He always wrote bad about our program.

433
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: He always you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I know

434
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: he didn't know me, you know what I'm saying. And

435
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: I saw that he was only writing that about me

436
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: because how well we was doing it bugged me out,

437
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,239
Speaker 1: like wait a minute, Like we got the number one

438
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: team in the city, the state, in the country and

439
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: this and I'm like hold on, like this gave me

440
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: like and so that started to teach me about it.

441
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: Then we learned that no matter what you do, they

442
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: will still find something correct. People gonna people can criticize

443
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: whatever you do. Like and so when I realized that,

444
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna do my best to be

445
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: my best, make out of the sacrifices I can make.

446
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, losing stinks, it hurts. When we lost the duke,

447
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah stunk, it hurt. We cried, But I did say

448
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: I looked up to Vegas and they just beat them

449
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: the year before, like they was better than us. Right,

450
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: at some point, you gotta look in the mirror and

451
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: do you see yourself as your representatives? Like so you

452
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: learned in high school not to medicate when people criticize

453
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: or you in a different way, meaning like you're like,

454
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 1: all right, look, no matter what, like I gotta look

455
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: at this big picture. Well, the word medicating started way

456
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: before the Fat five because I'm the product of my environment.

457
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: And I might have been exposed two joints in forty

458
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: ounces as a teenager. That might have been something I

459
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: might have had somebody caught for me as an underage.

460
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: By the way, that it's legal, it's fine, it's legal now.

461
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: That have happened before and around fifteen years of age,

462
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: that might have happened and it wasn't because I want

463
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: to lost a basketball game. But what I'm saying is,

464
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: did you use it to cope? Okay, it's it's it's it's.

465
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: One of the things I try to encourage those to

466
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: do is to try to allow people to keep their

467
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: innocent young people to keep their innocence as long as possible. Like,

468
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: I know, the Internet exists, television exists, sex, drugs, exposure

469
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: to everything, music or whatever. But the more you could

470
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: keep their minds and their hearts like focus on their

471
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: goals and dreams and pure and innocent and like happy

472
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: about the arnie and not heartened by the journey, you

473
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: give them a chance to like shape who they are. Yeah.

474
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: I didn't get that chance. Yeah, you know I was

475
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: one of those kids like I might have been a youngster, like, hey,

476
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: you about to get some of this cold forty five?

477
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: Put you to sleep? You know what I'm saying? You know, yeah,

478
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: my mom my mom would be like I'd be like, mom,

479
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: let me. My mom would be mad at me if

480
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: I made her drink wrong, and then if I made

481
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: it wrong, she make me have it. She'd like sip

482
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: that I'm like, I don't want it, but I was like,

483
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: but maybe yeah. By the way, for those who don't know,

484
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: when I say cold forty five, that's Billy d You know.

485
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You're a legendary pitchman and handsome,

486
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: well spoken guy. Hey, everybody, don't go anywhere. You know

487
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: what we gotta do. We gotta pay the bills, will

488
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: be back and just a moment with Jalen rose a

489
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: naked Every champion and every champion is to be a

490
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: CHAMPI out of champion and carry Chappion and carry Chappion.

491
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: Champion and carry Chappion and carry Chappi and the taming

492
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: can make it work, Harry Chappion and carry Chappion is

493
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: to be a champion. A champion. They carry Chappi and Chappi,

494
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: and they care with Chappi and they care with Chappie.

495
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: Can make it work. Hey, everybody, thank you for hanging

496
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: in there. I gotta pay these bills. As I often

497
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: say every single week, I'm glad you stayed because Jalen

498
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: tells a very beautiful story and I think this will

499
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: help you understand who he is and how he moves Jalen,

500
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: what's up the beauty of your story? As we talk

501
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: about what what didn't happen is what you did make happen?

502
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: Like you know, I was there. I'm old enough to

503
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: remember when you produced a beautiful Fab five doc um.

504
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: And I'm old enough to remember that you were able

505
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: to tell your own story and create your own narrative

506
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: in spite of what people may have said, you know

507
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: what I mean, win or loo wos. You were able

508
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: to tell your own story. I think that's the most

509
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: important thing for any human being. It's a create their

510
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: own narrative, because people will tell you a story, not

511
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: the way in which you wanted to be told um.

512
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking what a wonderful, beautiful accomplishment. And

513
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: for someone who lived through the Fab five era and

514
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: have my Michigan shirt from Target. I used to be like,

515
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: y'all made y'all made a paraphernalia popular. My mom's like,

516
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: why do you want a Michigan cercy? That's because I'm

517
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: gonna that. She's like, no, you know, I was like,

518
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: I won't be happening, but okay. But the point of

519
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: the matter is is that it was cool. It was popular.

520
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: It was as you know. I I was proud of you,

521
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, as a colleague, but also as somebody who

522
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: came full circle. The story has always been and you

523
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: always your line is always the same, Your story is

524
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: always the same. It's always been like see Webb is

525
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: never recovered, Like he's fine, We're all good, We're all friends.

526
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Now when I go back to being that politician and

527
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: taking care of everybody, Um, do you have the report

528
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: with him that and the rest of the crew that

529
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: you wish you that you wish you should have had,

530
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: or is has that ship sailed? That's a terrific question.

531
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad you asked that in the con context

532
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: of the Fab five dot And that was still a

533
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: time I remember I had the like legendary debate with

534
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: Skip and I talked about his high school stats or whatnot.

535
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: Like that was at a time where athletes were required

536
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: to only either stick the sports or only talk about

537
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: the sport that they played. So I'll just remember like

538
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: from two thousand and seven and two thousand and twelve,

539
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: like I was just working that best day and from

540
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and two to two thousand and seven doing

541
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: MTV Movie Awards, Top rain Boxing NFL Network sidelines. It

542
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm here, and it's like, hold on,

543
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: y'all think and this is like the public and like

544
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: just you know, people that see you as a former athlete, like, oh,

545
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: he could he talking about football, talking about baseball? You're

546
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 1: talking about it all right, So let me get this right.

547
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: So you didn't play anything everything, but don't put me

548
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: in a box. And so executive producing that documentary was

549
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: also important to me because as an athlete having his

550
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: own production company, I just did a play called the

551
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: Greatest Love Story Ever Told, Story of Mary and Joseph.

552
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: And it was around the time when Chop Tyler Perry

553
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: started his Chilling circuit Um stage plays, and so I

554
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: was taking pride in doing a lot of things that

555
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: athletes are doing now that seemed normal, not clearly that

556
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: I was the first. I mean, Shaq was doing movies,

557
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: I mean Fred the Hammer Williamson in the sixties and

558
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: Jim Brown was doing the movies like by no means

559
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: uh am I the first, but like and doing that

560
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: documentary meant that. So hiring Aaron Cohen, who now is

561
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: going on to do multiple projects with ESPN Bason Air

562
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: first project he did was fast five dot and he

563
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 1: just crushed it with the last dance. Now he's he's

564
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: turning downwards. So I turned around and say them like,

565
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: so I ain't got another project, you know what I mean?

566
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: And to answer your fat five part of it, I

567
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: had two endings. The ending that I wanted was gonna

568
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: have it ma fio. So who's gonna be suited and booted,

569
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: hats on scarves on big ta abole, my big chairs, lobster,

570
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: double triple bottles of champagne all on the table like

571
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: we won the Game of life. That's what I wanted

572
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: the ending to be. M hmm. If we were gonna

573
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: get a current interview from sea where then it ended

574
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: up being what it ended up being. And so in

575
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: theory over that tenure period, I mean, we can't hide

576
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: the fact that y'all ain't seeing us in front row

577
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: at the Piston game. You know what I mean, y'all

578
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: ain't seeing us in the front row at the Michigan

579
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: game in July coaching right, So I can't act like

580
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: it's where I've thought it would end up currently. But

581
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: what I will say, it's a lot better than it

582
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: used to be. And I see a time in the

583
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: near future where we'll get in the same place at

584
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: the same time and break bread as brothers and talking

585
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: about the things we like and don't like, and hopefully

586
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: we'll get past it and break another barrier um, because like,

587
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: we've invested so much in each other and the public,

588
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: and so many people have invested so much in us.

589
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: And I know what it looked like to see your

590
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: favorite group breakup. I remember EPM D broke up? How

591
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: cat like what FJ you know what I mean? Don't listen,

592
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: listen you like how even no addition? Oh my god,

593
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: this is the fact of my life. Ice Cube was

594
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: leaving n W A that changed my entire world. That

595
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: that crushed into our world, right right, So I know,

596
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: I understand how it's important for the public and the

597
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: culture who made us. We don't even want to be

598
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: called Fast, We want to be called five times. That

599
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: was a dumb name, like right, yeah, you guys didn't know, right,

600
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: And so based on all of those things, like I

601
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: was there when he got inducted into the Hall of Fame.

602
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: I was happy to go support them type of thing.

603
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: And hopefully we could be in a harbor to support

604
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: Juan and the team, So you know, it's uh, that's

605
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: what's the here's the Year's the thing when you when

606
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: you guys are because you guys were kids kids like

607
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: we we don't we forget, especially when you when you're

608
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: calling him these these your kids. You don't grow up man,

609
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: especially no offense. I don't grow up to much much

610
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: much later in life. I'm not even talking about in

611
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: your twenties, maybe your thirties, you know what I mean,

612
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: kind of getting it in your forties. So you take

613
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: these kids and you put them in these positions and

614
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: they can't process a lot. So it's hard. And if

615
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: you're not doing the work to understand what's going going on,

616
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, see Web, but I I I feel

617
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: like I see a lot in him, and I see

618
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: a lot of disappointment and rage and sadness and what

619
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: about me? And and I deserve and a lot of

620
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: I am you know. And that happens when you feel

621
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: like you have been treated unfairly in life, which brings

622
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: me back to what I have been able to see

623
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: you do with the cars that you have been given,

624
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 1: which is a beautiful thing. Um and it's and it's

625
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: in it's rare as a black man to see you

626
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: to prosper in that way, and then they get then you.

627
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: Then you get the naysayers who who who have tried

628
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: to say, oh, but he didn't, but he like you

629
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: said earlier, they're always finding something wrong. Do you have

630
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 1: any regrets about your professional career and how you handled

631
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: it on and off the court, and regrets may not

632
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: be the word. Do you have any redos? Do you

633
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: have any redos in a professional career as a basketball player,

634
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: not as an analyst, but as a basketball player that

635
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: you would rather do again? M Redus, I definitely would

636
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: have won one championship in college, definitely would have won

637
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: one in the league. Um, but what does that do

638
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: when you win and chip? What does that do? What?

639
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: Why would that be a redo for you? Does it

640
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: just solidify your legacy? Does it make your words more

641
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: powerful when you talk on TV? What? No? And no

642
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: and no no, no. I'm glad, I'm glad you deciphered that.

643
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: And I have an example for that. And his name

644
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: is Scottie Pepper. You ain't lying, and I want Scottie

645
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: you're listening, stop talking. Go ahead. As much as we

646
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: talk about winning at all costs, you write and how

647
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: it seems to be the thing that's gonna make us

648
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: the most happy. And I know some of that's out

649
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: of his control, because when people rapping about you in songs,

650
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: and they ain't necessarily rapping about you, but they're rapping

651
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: about somebody to carry your name, like, you can't control that.

652
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: But either way, he reminds me that just winning championships

653
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily make you happy. And I'm glad you asked

654
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: the question that you asked, because in theory, no, winning

655
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: those championships does not validate me more to myself. It

656
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: probably validates more me more to some people who are

657
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: gonna shallow look at me shallow like a job anyway,

658
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: and put me in that box. But it's just a

659
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: sense of being able to see your hard work in

660
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: the journey that you've accomplished to get a chance to

661
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: compete against the best and the best, to have that

662
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: crown and achievement. It's more. It's more for that reason

663
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: than it is for like people to pat me on

664
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: the back, because all people to turn around to do

665
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: and say, all you want is one like we got,

666
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: you only got one like them. That's one more. That's

667
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: what more do you do. Yeah, you are now um,

668
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: working at ESPN and you have been able to take yourself.

669
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: I remember you even to explaining this to me and

670
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: telling me how the journey started for you, what you

671
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: were doing and how you like you mentioned earlier, freelance

672
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: and working all these different places, and then you work

673
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: yourself into the spot the position where you want to be,

674
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: and you find yourself around these different platforms and you

675
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: and you live in and you get to the point

676
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: where you're like the face accountdown and you're doing all

677
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: these different things. Jalen n Kobe get up, you get

678
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: these big deals, and then you find that the business

679
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: is the business. What's your overall takeaway? Um, Because for

680
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: me it was different. I came in as a journalist

681
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: and you know what my my story is, and I've

682
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: shared that with you personally and professionally. But you know

683
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: I had to walk away because I had to find

684
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: my worth and find where I've where I felt appreciated,

685
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: as we all have to do in all relationships. What's

686
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: your overall takeaway when you look at from the moment

687
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: you started your your analysts career to where you are now,

688
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: also including the moments when everybody loves you and you've

689
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: got a pilot on ABC and you acting in it.

690
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, good job, by the way,

691
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: but take like all of that, like all the things

692
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: that you've been able to do, and then where you

693
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: are now, I see ebbs and flows, I see highs

694
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: and lows, but I see you staying consistent. How what's

695
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: your biggest takeaway of this, this post NBA career now

696
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: working as an analyst? What are you giving that information

697
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: out right? So my biggest takeaway and by the way,

698
00:42:54,320 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: congratulations on everything you accomplished. Then now like to see you, Jamale,

699
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: Michael Smith, people that I consider family, brothers and sisters.

700
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: You know I work with Michael Numbers never lied before

701
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: it became his and her. Jamale's from Detroit, like pass family,

702
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: and you talked about your relationship with me as well.

703
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: I think my biggest takeaway has it's thread in each

704
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: of you guys, It's woven and each of you gouts situations.

705
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: It's continue to fight for my voice and what ends

706
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: up happening is there are times when I need to

707
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: go to work and do COUMT down on a Sunday

708
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: afternoon after like understanding what just happened with Brianna Taylor,

709
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: and I'm just like sweating through my shirt. And we've

710
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: seen the political cycle change from a lot of more

711
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: of stick to forts when Colin was taking the knee,

712
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: to like when the presidential cycle kind of changed and

713
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: it became a lot more divisive. It became like politics

714
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: immersed itself so much into sports that we couldn't even

715
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: act like we were ignoring it anymore. Right, and so

716
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: as um as somebody that my culture has named their

717
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: kids after me, and I don't know, I don't know.

718
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: I don't know a kid that's not named Jalen. Sorry,

719
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what's named go ahead Tory. And I

720
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: just saw an article to somebody sent me today, like

721
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: the most popular name in college basketball. But understanding where

722
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: I came from and starting to make a lot of

723
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: my goals and dreams come true, it never took me

724
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: away from the authenticity of who I am, and I

725
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: make sure that those don't get separated. And I don't

726
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: have to tell you that's the toughest thing to do.

727
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: I'll give you a perfect example. The Kyle Rittenhouse verdict

728
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: came up, and I've been watching the trial. I saw

729
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: how the judge was behaving, saw the jokes that he

730
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: was making, and I saw like the politicism of who

731
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: was backing him and the things that were being said,

732
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: to the point where they started to make sure that

733
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: we know, so you're all ain't surprised, there's a good

734
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: chance that he gonna get off. Don't be surprised, like

735
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: we don't want you all be surprised, right, And so

736
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: he gets off and we're about to do a show.

737
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: I think we were in the garden or in Barclay's

738
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: one of them, and I just remember standing and I

739
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: was I was so disappointed, and I was glad that

740
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: we were addressing the topic. And I was just trying

741
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: to recall so many different stories of black men that

742
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: have been murdered by the police. And so as we

743
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: started to talk about the Jacob Blake thing, I miss

744
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: speak and say, um that he was murdered by police.

745
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: Greeney corrects me, I correct myself, said he was shot

746
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: seven times, And I definitely want to apologize to his

747
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: family from miss speaking, but I do understand he was paralyzed.

748
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: I do understand that, um. Because of that, Milwaukee Bucks

749
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: were the first team that eventually led to so many

750
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: different teams in sports and ultimately the NBA not playing

751
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I'm happy that they got rewarded

752
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: ultimately by winning the championship. Years later, I felt like

753
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: God was calm with it worked in their favor. But

754
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: what I noticed is there was a segment of the

755
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: population that sees me not normal NBA analysts. They see

756
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: me as the figure and the culture that I just described.

757
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: They see me as a founder of a high school

758
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: for a decade. I have to remind myself that they

759
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: see me as I'm not just here to talk about ball.

760
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: So when I make a mistake, they're gonna try to

761
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: reverse engineer the mistake and act like they care about

762
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 1: what I said about him, But really they're just trying

763
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: to make it like people like me are spreading misinformation

764
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: to create a narrative, but ignore the facts of what

765
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: happened in the case, whether he got acquitted or not.

766
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: And to your question, those circumstances continue to remind me

767
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: how the work that's happening in the community, it's so

768
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: precious and it inspires me to continue to do it

769
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: and do more. And I know that when I speak,

770
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: it's not just X and those normal analysts. It's like

771
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: you're talking for his people, and are you ready for this?

772
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: Carry do you think about tearing me down with that?

773
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: You certain buzz words like dumb. So just think about

774
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: this now. As an underrolled student in high school, I

775
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: mean the Dean's list in college, I graduated from the college.

776
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm a founder of a school, my best selling author,

777
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: currently write a column for The New York Post and

778
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: do a podcast, The Renaissance Man. So if you can

779
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: try to paint me is dumb, you then try to

780
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: elevate the journey of the people behind me, and then

781
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: you can out roll that same thing rents and repeat

782
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 1: over to the people that look like me. But we're

783
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: not going for that. And so that's what I continue

784
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: to learn, and I know I get it, like like

785
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: like I guess if if I guess, if I was

786
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: a woman, I could say there are times, unfortunately that

787
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: I see in the industry that as they start to

788
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: get older, their bodies changed, how their fashion changes, dot

789
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: a ah, they may not be the flavor of the

790
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: moment for people like me wearing a goldie and saying

791
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: arrest the cops that murder Brianna Taylor like that, don't

792
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: necessarily endear you in a lot of spaces. Yeah, of course,

793
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,919
Speaker 1: Well I don't think. I don't think that speaking truth

794
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: to power endears you to anybody. I think sometimes it's

795
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: a necessary evil, like watching your own clothes because I

796
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: don't like to watch which somebody else is doing. But

797
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: it's a necessary evil. Speaking truth to power doesn't endear

798
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: you to anybody, woman, man, child, boy girl. Which is

799
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: what what I'm hearing you say is, And this may

800
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: not be what you're saying, but what I'm hearing is

801
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: that the plant I need to be on this platform.

802
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: It's necessary because I'm speaking for people that don't have

803
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: a voice. And yeah, yeah, Also, to be honest, not

804
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: many people that have my background that you can take

805
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: them to the chapel, you can take them to the block,

806
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: take them to the power. You want to go to barbershop,

807
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: you want you want, you want to go to the

808
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,959
Speaker 1: there like where you wanna go, you want, you wanna

809
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: go to school like you want to do Yeah, And

810
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: so that is the value. It's almost like when raps

811
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 1: started to become popular, maybe epm D made the song

812
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: keep the crossover, but we was trying to keep wrap

813
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: yeah from becoming mainstream because we knew What's wrap became mainstream,

814
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: we was gonna lose it to the almighty dollar. Yeah, right,

815
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: And so that is the That's the importance for me

816
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: is if I'm able to continue to maintain the way

817
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: I've been able to, I know I can be that

818
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: credible voice that may not always you know, get uh,

819
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: I guess appreciated by mainstream America, but I know I'm

820
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: speaking but people for sure. And by the way, though

821
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: Jalen he says something about like, you know, getting order

822
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: and changing at different women like I. My hope for

823
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: everybody in this business to who who does what we

824
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: do is to watch that we can watch them evolve.

825
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: Like if I'm still talking about the same thing I

826
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: was talking about and trying to dress how I dressed

827
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: when I was on first take, I'm an idiot. If

828
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to sell sex, I'm an idiot. Like

829
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: that don't work. We've seen we have colleagues who have

830
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: gone way beyond that, and they still selling sex. I'm

831
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: talking about men and women. If they're still doing that same,

832
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: that same sticky years later, I don't care how much

833
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: money it's making you, You're an idiot. And you're really

834
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: not for the cause, You're for the fame. And so

835
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: you have to realize that as I've watched you evolve

836
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: and and transition, it's a welcome transition. It's a welcome transition,

837
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: and it allows you to live in a lot of

838
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: different worlds where you are very impactful. Everybody can't live

839
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: in a different world, Like you just talked about all

840
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: the places you can be and we're you can live

841
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: and everyone thinks they can do that. Everybody can't do that.

842
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: So so so the goal I would hope is that

843
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm not carried from twelve when the world was introduced

844
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: to me, that that I am living in a world

845
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: where I I know what my purpose is and that's

846
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: to help brown girls, Like it's a brown woman to

847
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: to be a phase to be unapologetic about that. I say,

848
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: whether you like it or not, um, but I know

849
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: that the work that I'm doing because being the first

850
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: is always the hardest. You've been the first in a

851
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: lot of situations, so you gotta take the heat. You're

852
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 1: the you, like maybe the only constant I think on countdown,

853
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, who else is the constant? Right? Like

854
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: that's the first in itself, especially on that platform where

855
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: they change it every five minutes and they mad at

856
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: everybody every five seconds. And know that when people come

857
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 1: to you, they're trying to be you or some form

858
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: of you, Like I know that these girls are trying

859
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: to be some form of me and what I used

860
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: to be, right and but but know that what you're

861
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: doing is definding so much for so many men. I

862
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Raymond the other day. He told

863
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: me some stuff you said to him. He was like,

864
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: that's my dog. I was like, right, Like, you're doing

865
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,439
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do, right, the first real big

866
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: superstar in basketball from his home state. I think I

867
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: maybe I'm maybe making that up, but I really think

868
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: it is. And ultimately what he wants to do right,

869
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: say what you want about you. He's the first to

870
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: be so ridiculous and so many ways will still be

871
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: accepted right. So so it's a beautiful thing that I'm

872
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 1: witnessing happen. And I love what you said about what

873
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 1: you find yourself now, um and being a mainstay at

874
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: the network, And who cares what I think about Like

875
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: I have my own experience, You have your own experience.

876
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: We process it differently. I came in very differently than

877
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: you came in. I was treated very differently than you've

878
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: retreated all the same, but you know what I mean,

879
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: everyone has their own experience. I want to end this

880
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: podcast with what I asked you before off the top,

881
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: because you said something I thought was powerful and I

882
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: think it'll be helpful. Do you ever find yourself because

883
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: what wasn't present in your life doesn't necessarily determine who

884
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: you are because you've made the best of it. But

885
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: do you ever find yourself wishing you could have had

886
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: a conversation with your father? I wanted to meet him

887
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: in person, for sure. Like it's one thing to be

888
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: able to talk to him on the phone, and I'm

889
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 1: glad I had that piece and be able to tell

890
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: him that I appreciate him, I love him, and I

891
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: don't have any hard feelings. But to meet him in

892
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: person would have provided a different level of gravity to

893
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: the circumstance, right assist a closure. You know what I mean?

894
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: That I didn't get a chance to look him in

895
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: his eyes, shake his hand, hug his neck type of thing.

896
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, that that bothered me for a while, and

897
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: that ultimately is what made me walk away from the game.

898
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: When I stopped playing, I could have played a couple

899
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: of more years. And I decided to go work for

900
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: ESPN at that time because I was already working in media.

901
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: You don't just walk away from the league making what

902
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: I made, and then making what I made start doing multimedia,

903
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: and so I just felt like I wanted to start

904
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: something different. So, yes, I do feel like that has

905
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: a purpose in my head and heart. That's definitely unfulfilled.

906
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: M hm. And what do you do with that? Do

907
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: you know? Or is it to be continued? I? Uh,

908
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: I don't mean to be me, you know what, I

909
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,399
Speaker 1: mean to be rude. I don't mean to be disrespectful.

910
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: I don't mean to like be naive. Maybe right there

911
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: were days, weeks, months, and years that I didn't think

912
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: about my father, understandable at the focus on what was

913
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: happening right now, this concrete jungle that I'm growing up in,

914
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: Like how mun get to school? You know what I'm saying?

915
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: Like I gotta worry about all of this. And so

916
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: as I matriculated as a young man, I tried to

917
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: like not worry about the things that I could control.

918
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,919
Speaker 1: And I had a terrific mom I lost my mother

919
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: in February, and I missed her so much February second,

920
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: and she protected me from all of that stuff because

921
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: she worked at the plant, but she also worked at

922
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: the bar, so I got a chance to see all

923
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: sides of working nine to five, Jennie Rose. But then

924
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: we at the barn, I'm giving people their drinks and

925
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: giving and I'm drinking Shirley Temples and putting money in

926
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: the pinball machine. You know what I'm saying. And that

927
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: that that gave me a level of They gave me

928
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: a level of perseverance that I felt like failure wasn't

929
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: an option. So as I started having success and all

930
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: of my goals and dreams started to come true. And

931
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: I say this to any people, especially black people, guys

932
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: that don't know your father or don't know your mother whatever,

933
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: like at some point, you gotta let it go. Like

934
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: you can't be out here thirty five, still blaming your

935
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: mother and father, needtiful decisions you made, like you just can't.

936
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm live this. I'm telling you you can't do that.

937
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: You sound crazy now, Like address your trauma, like get

938
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: the therapy and the support that you need. But sometimes

939
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: that dysfunction is what can actually that stumbling body can

940
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: actually be your stepping stone to your opportunities. But it's

941
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: dressed in overalls and you don't even see it, and

942
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: so you can't. I can't. And I didn't always blame

943
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: what I didn't have for what wasn't happening. I was like,

944
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: I'm be the guy the breaks this glass ceiling. And

945
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: I'm so very fortunate that sports and entertainment and being

946
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: educated and doing that in this dogg eat dog field

947
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: where you know how it works, you know, rents and repeat.

948
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: When you're the player, it's like, after a couple of years,

949
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: how much you make, Oh, it's just somebody that's cheaper,

950
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: you know. And I got at and so I've been

951
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: really fortunate that I've been able to maintain doing what

952
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm doing. And we'll see, you know, how long it

953
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: continues to happen like this. Yeah, but you're never You've

954
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: never falling off because you've got too many talents. Um,

955
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: I already know that there's just that next chapter of greatness.

956
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: It's never and and it's not for the approval of

957
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: anybody else, but just for yourself, you know what I mean.

958
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: Thank you? I see I see a big, huge, gigantic future. Um,

959
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on Naked. I

960
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Jalen Rose, my pleasure years. You poor and

961
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: dumb that's been sitting in the fridge for a year.

962
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: You rich this really rich black over here, real rich black.

963
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: I hit my hands out on the day and she

964
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: didn't even know what it was. He was born it

965
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: and she he was like, that's dom Perry ya. It

966
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: supposed the ball. It's supposed to blah ball boo. I

967
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: say this because it's true all of us as adults,

968
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: especially when you become aware of yourself as an adult.

969
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time trying to figure out

970
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: our childhood and how it made us who we are today.

971
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: And once we break down those images, those ideas, those

972
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: memories and we really come into our own we blossom

973
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: and it's something special and beautiful. And I believe that

974
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: is what is happening with my friend Jalen Rose. Nothing

975
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: is wrong, Everything is right, Everything is as it should

976
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: be right. We judge ourselves so much, but rething is

977
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: as it should be. I appreciate him telling his story

978
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: about his father because it really does show me two things.

979
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: One incredible determination. He has been able to succeed in

980
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: spite of because of the images that were in his life,

981
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: his mother. He talks about that he lost his mother recently.

982
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: I know that had to be painful, and again I'm

983
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: sending you so much love, my brother. I'm sorry. But

984
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,919
Speaker 1: then look at what he's been able to do. He's

985
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: the guy that I know as an NBA player, has

986
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: a veteran that is giving great analysis on ESPN. There's

987
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: the actor in him that I'm pretty sure that he

988
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: has yet to talk about. But I love that he

989
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: is so much more than what we see on the surface.

990
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: I say that for you all as well. There's so

991
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: much more. Don't be afraid to go out and show

992
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: people who you are. Don't be afraid to make mistakes,

993
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to be like I don't have it.

994
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful to be authentic and true and naked.

995
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: We spend so much time pretending like everything is okay,

996
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: myself included. I'm glad Jayleen took some time today to

997
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: share his story. We're back next week. I appreciate you

998
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: all support. M HM