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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The then underage girls say

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Speaker 1: they were lured by the cash. My mother was on

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Speaker 1: drugs at the time and she could have provide for me,

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Speaker 1: and I was pretty much homeless. Fromer Palm Beach Police

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Speaker 1: Chief Michael Riders as many of the girls didn't know

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Speaker 1: each other but had the same story. We believe that

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Speaker 1: this would end up in a prosecution that would incarceraate

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Speaker 1: mister Epstein for the remainder of his life. Federal prosecutors

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Speaker 1: even had a fifty three page indictment ready to go,

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Speaker 1: according to a court filing, but Epstein, a hedge fund

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Speaker 1: manager who famously piled around with Donald Trump, Bill Clinton,

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Speaker 1: and Prince Andrew, never faced those serious charges. Instead, a

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Speaker 1: plea deal was struck. He pleaded guilty to two counts

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Speaker 1: related to solicitation of prostitution and only served thirteen months

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Speaker 1: in a county jail. I cannot believe it. A fifty

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Speaker 1: three page indictment and he managed to dodge it because

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Speaker 1: he's rich and piled around with rich people and famous politicians,

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Speaker 1: including Clinton and Trump. There's even suggestions that Clinton would

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Speaker 1: go with him on a private plane to a quote

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Speaker 1: private island where young girls were brought in. That's yet

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Speaker 1: to be proved. But what I know right now, and

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Speaker 1: this is not about politics, he piled around with Trump too,

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Speaker 1: although I don't know anything about Trump being on a

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Speaker 1: private plane on a private island, but I do know this.

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Speaker 1: He must have some kind of pull to escape a

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Speaker 1: jail sentence after a fifty three page indictment. Well, the

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Speaker 1: case is cracked open right now. Millionaire Jeffrey Epstein now

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Speaker 1: facing sex trafficking charges involving dozens of little girls as

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Speaker 1: young as fourteen that we know of, who all separated

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Speaker 1: in time and space, claimed they were paid to perform

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Speaker 1: rape acts on the pedophile. He's been hiding out in

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Speaker 1: Paris before his arrest, where they broke down his door

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Speaker 1: of his mansion. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Justice delayed, but is

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Speaker 1: it justice denied? Straight out to Dave Mattcrime online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Dave Mack, what's it all about? It

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Speaker 1: comes down to a very rich man in Epstein, with

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Speaker 1: very rich and powerful friends, taking advantage of young women

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Speaker 1: in various stages of distress in life. They were young.

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Speaker 1: We're talking as young as fourteen, and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: doing it for a number of years. This whole thing

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Speaker 1: unraveled cause apparently this secret deal that was arranged and Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you know much better about this than I do. This

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Speaker 1: secret deal that was arranged that gave him thirteen months

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Speaker 1: even though there was a fifty three page indictment and

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Speaker 1: he was expected he could spend the rest of his

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Speaker 1: life in jail. They never let the victims know about

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Speaker 1: this deal, and by law they had to. So over

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Speaker 1: the years there'd been a number of lawsuits filed back

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Speaker 1: and forth, and finally one of these lawsuits popped up

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Speaker 1: where mister Epstein admitted that he was actually untruthful in

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Speaker 1: his accusations against the women and their attorney, and that

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Speaker 1: now is what has allowed this to come back open again. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, let me break that down. So

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Speaker 1: everybody remembers Bill Cosby, right, So at some point Bill

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Speaker 1: Cosby America's quote funny man claimed all of his rape

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Speaker 1: accusers were liars, that they were lying about him. They

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Speaker 1: sued him for slander, saying they were telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: And that's really what cracked this case open because he

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Speaker 1: had to give a deposition because of the lawsuit, and

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Speaker 1: in that deposition he admitted he gave people queludes and

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Speaker 1: then took advantage of them. Dad all came back to

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Speaker 1: haunt him when those depots were made public. In this case,

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Speaker 1: what Dave Mack just said, I think Jason Oceans is

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Speaker 1: that after a fifty three page indictment, he gets a

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Speaker 1: light sentence of about thirteen months, which he does at

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Speaker 1: a let me say, country club, prison work release in

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Speaker 1: a county, in a county, walks free. He should have

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Speaker 1: done life plus twenty. And when these girls were accusing

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Speaker 1: him and trying to find out what was happening, he

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Speaker 1: sued them. Is that the way it went down Jason,

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Speaker 1: you know, just a little more background. He allegedly flew

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Speaker 1: with former President Clinton, you know, twenty some odd times

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Speaker 1: down to this private island. So in terms of the

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Speaker 1: why the prosecution didn't go forward either powerful people, it

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Speaker 1: is about politics to some degree for sure. And if

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Speaker 1: you've heard, if you're listening to the initial clip, you

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Speaker 1: know her mother was drug addicted. There were a lot

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Speaker 1: of problems with these these victims because that was probably

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Speaker 1: why they were picked, so that there was some level

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Speaker 1: of distrust in what they might say but this this

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Speaker 1: Crime Victims Act suit, that was what triggered this to

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Speaker 1: come back into the open and revisit all of it.

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Speaker 1: So let me understand. Tell me one more time, in

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Speaker 1: simple terms, Dave Matt, how did this blow open? As

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, it came down to the lawsuit back and

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Speaker 1: forth and the depositions where mister Epstein actually finally had

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Speaker 1: to admit in public that even though during the course

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Speaker 1: of the investigation he accused these victims of lying and

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Speaker 1: accused their attorney of lying, the attorney's name is mister Bradley,

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Speaker 1: and he accused everybody of lying when it finally came

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Speaker 1: back around, and it goes to the fact that the

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Speaker 1: prosecution that's never actually made the victims aware of the

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Speaker 1: sentence that they had agreed to with regard to Epstein

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Speaker 1: only getting thirteen months, and based on the way the laws,

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Speaker 1: they had to be notified that this was these were

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Speaker 1: the terms of the sentence. So with him being allowed

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Speaker 1: to get away with this probb you know, the deferred

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Speaker 1: prosecution if you want to call it that, the women,

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Speaker 1: the girls sue him for libel and slander or is

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Speaker 1: that wrong? They did they actually it spun around in

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Speaker 1: that deposition because they were claiming that they were never

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Speaker 1: informed about his sentence, and that's where they challenged him

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Speaker 1: in all things from the sentence to the fact that

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Speaker 1: he accused them of lying. And that's when the depositions

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Speaker 1: came out and he admitted that he actually did lie

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Speaker 1: about them lying. So here's a that we know of

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Speaker 1: as young as fourteen years old. A little girl brought

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Speaker 1: to a mansion, told she's going to have an interview

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Speaker 1: to be a model. She's taken upstairs to meet Epstein

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Speaker 1: and it turns into a rape. Joining me right now

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Speaker 1: is a very special guest, Les Nichols, the past president

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Speaker 1: of the National Coalition to Prevent Child Sex Abuse and Exploitation.

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Speaker 1: Les Nichols, thank you for being with us now. A

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Speaker 1: consultant at R. L. Nichols and Associates. Les Nichols, explain

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Speaker 1: to me your understanding of the facts surrounding these claims

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Speaker 1: against millionaire Jeff Epstein. I'll say this, this sits into

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Speaker 1: a much bigger pattern in worldwide as well as US society.

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Speaker 1: The scope of sex abuse and the scope of sexual

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Speaker 1: trafficking is just unimaginable to most people. And some of

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Speaker 1: the points that were brought up earlier about regarding the

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Speaker 1: civil suit or the civil suits. It's interesting because those

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Speaker 1: are what drive things forward. It is rarely the criminal

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Speaker 1: cases that really change things. It's the follow up civil

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Speaker 1: cases with the depositions and the exposure that starts to

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Speaker 1: change the elements in our society, whether it's it's organizations, institutions,

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Speaker 1: whether it's government institutions, that starts to change what happens

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Speaker 1: as a result of these. But this is the scope

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Speaker 1: of sexual trafficking is maybe one hundred b in a year.

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Speaker 1: What I'm asking is, what is your understanding of the

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Speaker 1: facts of this case involving Jeff Epstein. My understanding is

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Speaker 1: that he participated in sexual trafficking, which is a huge industry.

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Speaker 1: He had the wherewithal to be able to cover this up.

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Speaker 1: He had the access, he could afford it, he could

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Speaker 1: buy the privacy, he could share that with others who

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Speaker 1: were in powerful positions such as was mentioned earlier, the

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Speaker 1: number of times that President Clinton traveled with him would

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Speaker 1: make it very accessible to him if he participated in it,

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Speaker 1: and he simply benefited at a much higher scale from

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Speaker 1: what many people do at a much lower scale. As

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Speaker 1: a b an area, he was able to multiply what

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Speaker 1: he was able to Day Matt Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, we got bogged down in the mechanics of

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Speaker 1: the previous lawsuit. What is your understanding of the facts

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Speaker 1: in this case that mister Epstein was able to procure

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Speaker 1: women from all over enough, They're not women of their girls.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I'll tell you what this case is about.

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Speaker 1: This case is about a billionaire who has been getting away,

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Speaker 1: according to the prosecution, for decades of picking up little girls,

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Speaker 1: using other women, his so called assistants and partners to

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Speaker 1: go procure little girls as young as fourteen, bringing them

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Speaker 1: to his mansion, whether it be in New York, Miami,

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Speaker 1: a private island, and raping them, flying them all around

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Speaker 1: in private planes to other locations to pass the girls

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Speaker 1: around to other men, very powerful men that could pay

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Speaker 1: to have these girls. That's what the case is about.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. It ended with sexual abuse

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Speaker 1: and intercourse and then a pat on the back. You've

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Speaker 1: done a really good job, like you know, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, and here's two hundred dollars. You know, before

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Speaker 1: you know it, I'm being lent out to politicians and

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Speaker 1: to academics and to people that royalty and people that

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Speaker 1: you just you would never think, like, how did you

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Speaker 1: get into that position of power in the first place

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Speaker 1: if you're this disgusting, evil, decrepit person on the inside.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing an alleged Epstein victim, Virginia Roberts, who was

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Speaker 1: a girl at the time. She says she began being

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Speaker 1: prostituted out by Jeff Epstein to many, many powerful men.

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Speaker 1: Will she be believed? Jason Oceans, a New York attorney,

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Speaker 1: joining me, my stomach is hurting right now. But as

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Speaker 1: a trial lawyer, I would have to as a prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: acknowledge my victims have credibility issues. They're going to be

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Speaker 1: attacked because their children. They're going to be a tap

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Speaker 1: because they sued for money damages Epstein. They're going to

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Speaker 1: be a tap because maybe their mom had a drug

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Speaker 1: problem or they were transient. But those are just the

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Speaker 1: kind of people that somebody like Epstein would pick as

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Speaker 1: a victim. He's not going to try to go meet

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Speaker 1: my little girl over at our Methodist church during Sunday

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Speaker 1: school and get her out of that to go fly

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Speaker 1: off in his private jet. No, that ain't going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Predators like him look for vulnerable victims. That's why these girls,

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Speaker 1: That's exactly why these girls have credibility issues, and that

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Speaker 1: does not mean they're not telling the truth. And also,

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Speaker 1: Jason Oceans the fact that there are so many of

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Speaker 1: them that don't know each other, that have not communicated

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Speaker 1: with each other, that are separated in time and space.

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Speaker 1: They could not collaborate on a story, have the same story.

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Speaker 1: That is not a coincidence. Jason H s Now, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you. I think your narrative is

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Speaker 1: right on point in terms of, you know, what would

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Speaker 1: look to be, you know, a diabolical plot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all the things we're in place to be able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, manipulate this from power and politics and money

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Speaker 1: and all of that make a collective cabal in something

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Speaker 1: that's just absolutely evil. I want you to take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend Stephanie Goske at NBC. This is

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Speaker 1: a video of Jeffrey Epstein's home, taken by investigators during

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Speaker 1: a search of the multi millionaire's Palm Beach mansion. It

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Speaker 1: is where Epstein was involved with at least forty underage girls,

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Speaker 1: some of whom he had sex with, according to court

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Speaker 1: filings obtained by NBC News, several of his accusers speaking

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Speaker 1: out for the first time to the Miami Herald. I

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Speaker 1: was sixteen, I was sixteen. I started going to him

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Speaker 1: when I was like fourteen, fifteen, fourteen, turning fifteen. A

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Speaker 1: report from the Palm Beach Police Department alleges the girls

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Speaker 1: were promised money in exchange for massages, and that a

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Speaker 1: female who recruited young teens for the tycoon allegedly told

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Speaker 1: one victim, the more you do, the more you get paid.

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Speaker 1: He just laid down in his towel on his stomach

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Speaker 1: and he was just talking to people on the phone.

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Speaker 1: When he flipped over. That's when he said, Okay, you

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Speaker 1: can go ahead and take off your shirt and pants.

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Speaker 1: The accounts include accusations from indecent exposure to inappropriate touching

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Speaker 1: to rate your hearing. Urfrid Stephanie Goske at NBC and

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Speaker 1: one of the alleged victims to Joseph Scott Morgan forensics

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Speaker 1: expert Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

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Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon, Joe Scott, here's an issue. There's

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Speaker 1: no DNA there's no fingerprints, there's no ripped clothing, there's

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Speaker 1: no forensic evidence at all. Because that does not mean

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Speaker 1: the incidents did not occur. That means that so much

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Speaker 1: time has passed, nothing is left. And you know he's

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Speaker 1: had those mansions cleaned, deep cleaned, triple clean, steamed, scrub,

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Speaker 1: you name it, Joe Scott. Yes, you're absolutely right. No

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Speaker 1: physical evidence in that sense. This has been going on

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Speaker 1: for fourteen years. Nancy. The first complaint came up back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and five. Let's think about that two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, and lord knows what was happening before then.

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Speaker 1: But let me tell you about some other evidence that

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Speaker 1: can come to light. I take exception with journalists using

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Speaker 1: the term lolita express. I think that it diminishes what

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Speaker 1: these little children have gone through. That's the plane that

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Speaker 1: he used to fly back and forth. You do have

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Speaker 1: other evidence here. You've got things called flight logs they'll

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Speaker 1: have to talk about. The prosecutor can talk about who

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Speaker 1: was on board those planes. You can bring that pilot

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Speaker 1: to task that can talk about the timeline, who they

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Speaker 1: flew down there, and all these other peripherals. Because let

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Speaker 1: me tell you, as the cops begin to apply pressure.

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Speaker 1: Now that the floodgates are open to all of these

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Speaker 1: peripheral individuals that are looking to see their lives completely

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Speaker 1: destroyed by this, they're going to start to sing, and

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Speaker 1: you're going to have testimonial evidence at that moment in

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Speaker 1: time that will come forward. And another thing, Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: you referred to his private plane as Lolita Express. Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott is referring to a very famous work of fiction

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Speaker 1: where a young girl referred to as Lolita had relations

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Speaker 1: with a professor, a much older professor. Not only was

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's private plane called nicknamed Lolita Express, his private

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Speaker 1: island was known as Orgy Island. That's just kind of

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Speaker 1: thing I would want a jury to hear. But another thing,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, you and I prosecuted in testified at

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Speaker 1: state level. This is the fits. They ain't played, Joe Scott, No,

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Speaker 1: they're not. He has certainly messed with fire at this

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Speaker 1: point in time, because you know, we go back to

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Speaker 1: this idea of sexual trafficking. All the stars of the

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Speaker 1: stuff started down in Palm Beach. Now he has gone, well,

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Speaker 1: he's gone to the Virgin Islands. Now he's crossed over

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Speaker 1: international waters. He's gone to one of our territories. He's

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Speaker 1: this is where this trafficking comes in. He is taking

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Speaker 1: these poor children down to this island so that he

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Speaker 1: can literally pass them around among his wealthy and powerful

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Speaker 1: friends to use these poor kids however they see fit.

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Speaker 1: And now he's going straight into the teeth of the fits.

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Speaker 1: You know, Joe Scott, Remember we were just at crime

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Speaker 1: con in New Orleans, and you know, of course I

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Speaker 1: had my children with me because I was going to

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Speaker 1: be gone over two nights, that's the rule. Did you

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Speaker 1: see my little girl, Lucy, She's going to be well

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Speaker 1: and a couple of months. These girls are just twenty

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Speaker 1: four months older than my little Lucy, my little sweet girl.

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Speaker 1: And I just don't understand how this has been hidden

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Speaker 1: and covered up for so long. Listen to our friend

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Speaker 1: Stephanie GOsC at NBC. He arranged it so that he

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Speaker 1: got work release, which meant that he had a valet,

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Speaker 1: a driver that he hired pick him up at the

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Speaker 1: jail every day and essentially drive him to an office.

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Speaker 1: The former US attorney who approved the deal, Alexander Acosta,

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Speaker 1: is now President Trump's Secretary of labor and a possible

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Speaker 1: pick for Attorney General. A Labor Department spokesperson tells NBC

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Speaker 1: News that the US Attorney's office defended the deal across

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Speaker 1: three administrations, and pointed out that Secretary Acosta was asked

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Speaker 1: about the plea deal during his confirmation hearing last year.

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Speaker 1: Professionals within a prosecutor's office to side that a plea

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Speaker 1: that guarantees that someone goes to jail, that guarantees that

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Speaker 1: someone registered generally, and that guarantees other outcomes is a

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Speaker 1: good thing. The former Palm Beach police chief disagrees. I

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Speaker 1: think almost the entire system failed them crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. He arranged it so that he got work release,

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Speaker 1: which meant that he had a valet, a driver that

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Speaker 1: he hired pick him up at the jail every day

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Speaker 1: and essentially drive him to an office. The former US

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Speaker 1: attorney who approved the deal, Alexander Acosta, is now President

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Speaker 1: Trump's Secretary of Labor and ap pick for attorney General.

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Speaker 1: A Labor Department spokesperson tells NBC News that the US

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Speaker 1: Attorney's Office defended the deal across three administrations and pointed

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Speaker 1: out that Secretary Atcosta was asked about the plea deal

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Speaker 1: during his confirmation hearing last year. Professionals within a prosecutor's

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Speaker 1: office decide that a plea that guarantees that someone goes

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Speaker 1: to jail, that guarantees that someone registered generally, and that

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Speaker 1: guarantees other outcomes is a good thing. The former Palm

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Speaker 1: Beach police chief disagrees. I think almost the entire system

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Speaker 1: failed them. You're hearing our friends Stephanie Gosq at NBC, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know what has hit the fan. Finally and it's

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Speaker 1: been a long time coming. Billionaire that's b a zed brother.

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Speaker 1: Billionaire pedophile Jeff Epstein just arrested in a new underage

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Speaker 1: X case. And I don't know why they keep saying

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Speaker 1: underage sex is statutory rape when a child is just

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Speaker 1: fourteen years old. What I don't understand is many years

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Speaker 1: ago he was busted on this. His case allegedly implicates

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Speaker 1: royalty g I wonder who that is, presidents and many

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Speaker 1: other rich, powerful and influential targets. So somehow this guy

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Speaker 1: manages to be in the county jail, which nobody does

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Speaker 1: for a sentence over twelve months. Ever, he stays in

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Speaker 1: the county jail and actually has a valet, a private driver,

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Speaker 1: pick him up every day, drive him to his office,

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Speaker 1: and for three three presidential administrations. I'm talking about Republican

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Speaker 1: and Democrat. They have defended the Plea Deal, and now

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Speaker 1: the guy in charge of the deal, Acosta, is a

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Speaker 1: potential US Attorney General over my cold dead body. I

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Speaker 1: don't care if he's a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent,

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Speaker 1: a Green, a communist, I don't care what he is.

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Speaker 1: This is wrong, This is so wrong. Finally, Epstein goes

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Speaker 1: to jail. The hedge funder, who twelve years ago wiggled

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Speaker 1: out of similar charges of raping young girls, is going

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Speaker 1: to appear in a federal court in Manhattan charges of

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Speaker 1: trafficking dozens of little girls between two thousand and two

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Speaker 1: and two thousand and five in New York. In Florida,

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Speaker 1: where he has mansions. He was busted at Titterboro Airport

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey. That's a private airport where only private

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Speaker 1: planes land. At the same time he was busted, about

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Speaker 1: twelve federal agents were literally breaking down the door of

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Speaker 1: his fifty million dollar mansion on East seventy one and

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Speaker 1: the Upper East Side to execute search warrants straight out

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Speaker 1: to Karen Stark joining me New York Psychologists. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Karen dot com. Before I get into

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Speaker 1: the psychology of this, tell me about as seventy first Street.

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Speaker 1: What kind of area is that the brief side, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it's a very wealthy area. Right right around that area

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Speaker 1: you'll find Um, the ex mayor of Bloomberg. It's it's

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Speaker 1: really where one of the places where the elite of

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Speaker 1: New York reside. And it's right there on the East River,

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Speaker 1: so you can look out on the water if you're

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Speaker 1: up in one of those penthouses. Karen Stark, do you

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Speaker 1: think he had any inkling or do you think for

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Speaker 1: all these years he was laughing on the inside, And

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Speaker 1: you know, he did not quit abusing girls that never happened.

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Speaker 1: Didn't happened. You're right now that he had gotten away

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Speaker 1: with it, chumming around with all his rich friends. Not

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Speaker 1: only do I think that he had an instinct that

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Speaker 1: he got away with it, Nancy, I think that he

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Speaker 1: was really full of pride and excited and proud of

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was able to get away with it,

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Speaker 1: because he has no conscience. And I want to add

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Speaker 1: something about these girls. They're miners. There is a reason

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Speaker 1: why miners cannot be held in any kind of as

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Speaker 1: being responsible for what happened to them, because they can't

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Speaker 1: make those kind of decisions. They're easily influenced. You can

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Speaker 1: tell them, come on up, you're going to be a

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Speaker 1: model and push them into a situation like that, so

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Speaker 1: nobody can be None of these girls can be held

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Speaker 1: responsible for what happened to them. Last darfriend as CBS

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Speaker 1: major Garrett, what is mister Epstein's connection to former President

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton? And how well, given that it's in Palm Beach,

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Speaker 1: does he know the current president Donald Trump. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to want to get too far out of my

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Speaker 1: repertorial abilities here. This is not a story I've followed closely.

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Speaker 1: They are associated by name. I believe they've traveled together,

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and former President Bill Clinton. I have no

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Speaker 1: clue whatsoever how well Jeffrey Epstein knew or didn't know

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, either before he was president or as president.

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Speaker 1: I do know in general, and I mean in a

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Speaker 1: very general sense, having been down to Palm Beach a

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Speaker 1: lot in and around the Trump story, both campaign and presidency,

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people who are well healed and

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Speaker 1: wealthy tend to know one another, bump into each other

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Speaker 1: at the same places. That's a general impression. I don't

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Speaker 1: have any specific information about times or places, or whether

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Speaker 1: or not they know each other very well at all,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think part of the problem to Les Nichols,

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Speaker 1: special guest joining us, the past president of the National

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Speaker 1: Coalition to Prevent Child Sex Abuse and Exploitation, Les Nichols,

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Speaker 1: I think part of the problem is that people, the

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Speaker 1: public believe the rich, the powerful, the educated would never

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Speaker 1: do something like this. So what in your mind does

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Speaker 1: a sex predator look like a child sex trafficker. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question, because that is the first stumbling

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Speaker 1: bog for the general public is that there is no

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Speaker 1: profile for a for a sexual predator, particularly people who

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Speaker 1: would exploit children. They could be from any walk of life.

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Speaker 1: And that's what makes it even harder because the more

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Speaker 1: we look up to people, the more coverage provides them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at a local level, we think of our

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Speaker 1: coach or a teacher, or a minister, or someone who's

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Speaker 1: just a wonderful volunteer in the community, and we look

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Speaker 1: up to that person. If we would never imagine that

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Speaker 1: they are a sexual predator interested in sex with children.

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Speaker 1: Then just magnify that to someone like Bill Cosby or

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Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky, people that people admire would want to emulate.

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Speaker 1: And then you get up to a level like a

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Speaker 1: billionaire like mister Epstein, And it's just it's just so

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Speaker 1: hard for people to get their head around the fact

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Speaker 1: that anyone could do this. But literally anyone could, male

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Speaker 1: or female. There's fairly recent studies as much as seven

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Speaker 1: percent of the US adult population have some level of

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Speaker 1: sexual interest in children. That's about sixteen to seventy million

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Speaker 1: Americans that have have some level of sexual interest in children.

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Speaker 1: Very hard for people to understand. What about it to you, Karen,

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Speaker 1: start psychologist, I think Less Nichols is right. Less Nichols

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Speaker 1: now consultant in R. L. Nichols and Associates. Karen, I

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Speaker 1: remember prosecuting Childlein Station cases and very often the purps

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Speaker 1: would be educated, that have a great job, that have

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Speaker 1: a wife and a family. Here with Epstein, he's a

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Speaker 1: hedge fund expert, he is a billionaire with mansions all

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Speaker 1: over the world. A lot of people would not think

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Speaker 1: of him as a pedophile. But I guarantee you those

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Speaker 1: Ritzy country gloves or he brushed elbows with all the

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Speaker 1: other millionaires. They all knew that all go he's into

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Speaker 1: little girls. I guarantee you they all knew, Karen. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they all knew Natty, or many of them knew.

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Speaker 1: But you see the fact that you had that kind

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Speaker 1: of a sexual predo predilection. I'm not coming out with

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Speaker 1: the right word. If you are inclined to be somebody

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Speaker 1: who goes after young girls, then it doesn't matter whether

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Speaker 1: it's somebody you would think on the street, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: he looks that way, or a very wealthy person, or

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Speaker 1: the head of a company, somebody in politics. It can

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Speaker 1: cross all lines because it's a desire, and that kind

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Speaker 1: of a desire, which is not the norm, nevertheless, exists

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Speaker 1: in our society. And you could be sure it's everywhere.

431
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, they really want

432
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: to see him go to prison. They want to see

433
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: him punished for the crimes that he committed. We know,

434
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: because of evidence that has come to light over the

435
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: past several years, that he wasn't just doing this in

436
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: Palm Beach. He's accused of trafficking girls in New York

437
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: and other places. Around the world. And you know, the

438
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: question is out there is why haven't federal authorities reopened

439
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: this case or at least opened a new case in

440
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: another jurisdiction. And I think that these women feel that

441
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: prosecutors in the Justice Department has just worked to help

442
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: cover up this case rather than expose and you know

443
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: what Epstein did, and to find some kind of justice

444
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: for these girls. Billionaire hedge funder Jeffrey Epstein just arrested

445
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: his door literally broken down. The doorman and his New

446
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: York high rise says that there was a constant stream

447
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: of girls going in and out of the apartment at

448
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: all hours, a continuous parade into Epstein's apartment of young

449
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: girls that they look like models, and he couldn't even

450
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: tell their ages, he says, because of all the makeup

451
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: they were. As a bizarre coincidence, Woody Allen charged by

452
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: his family with child sexy use and Bill Cosby lived

453
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: there too. Wow. Okay. The doorman, who wanted to remain anonymous,

454
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: says that he has a daughter he's just turning fourteen,

455
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: and that he would put a bullet in Epstein's head.

456
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: But you know that's neither here nor there. An indictment

457
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: to be unsealed, including victims witnesses who spoke to the

458
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Feds over the past several months. Dave Matt, what's it

459
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: all about, Nancy. We've been expecting this. Federal prosecutors announced

460
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: sex trafficking and conspiracy charges against Jeffrey Epstein, and some

461
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: experts are suggesting that this federal indictment is really a

462
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: placeholder for prosecutors expecting a much larger superseding indictment to

463
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: be forthcoming. The then teen girl victims elated that something's

464
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: finally happened. Epstein has been hit. Was hit with a

465
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: slap on the wrist twelve years ago after more than

466
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: thirty underage girls were brave enough to come forward and

467
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: describe being lured by money and threats to Epstein's mansions

468
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: in Manhattan at a Caribbean island known as Orgy Island

469
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: in Palm Beach. There they perform sex acts with a

470
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: wealthy hedge funder and all of his friends that go

471
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: from erotic massages to statutory rape. He managed to plead

472
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: guilty to very small charges with one inconsequential let me

473
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: just say, very light charges involving only one single minor

474
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: under the age of eighteen. He got eighteen months in

475
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 1: a Florida State jail and they closed the investigation. He

476
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: only served thirteen months where he would have a valet

477
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: pick him up every day and go to his office.

478
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: Then he goes back to the Upper East Side to

479
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: celebrate his release with his close pal, Britain's Prince Andrew.

480
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: Back to Dave Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

481
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: You know how much I do not care about politics,

482
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: but could you tell me again how many times did

483
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: Clinton flight President Bill Clinton fly on the Lolita Express

484
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 1: private plane of Jeffrey Epstein's to Orgie Island twenty six times? Nancy,

485
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: that's what's been documented, twenty six Okay, Jeffcott Morgan again,

486
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: could you explain to me how that can be corroborated. Well,

487
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: there are things called flight logs, Nancy. That means that

488
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: every time that plane takes off, it has a registered

489
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: tail number, and that plane is giving evidence. And trust me,

490
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: if former President Clinton is in tow, if he is

491
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: on this plane, there's going to be corroborated through logs. Say,

492
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: for instance, he has a secret Service detail that tracks

493
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: along with him wherever he goes. So you can actually

494
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: pair those two things up. So the time that the

495
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: plane leaves and you know, pair that up with the

496
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: time that a secret service brought President Clinton to the

497
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: airport to put him on the plane. I guess they

498
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: traveled with him. So once they travel with him, they

499
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: have to fly back. You know what time did the

500
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: plane land? Then when do they get into limos and

501
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: take back off again? So this is going to be

502
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: easily easily documented by prosecutors moving forward. You know, it's

503
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: such a hot potato right now because a Costa is

504
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: within the Trump administration. So this is dragging Trump into

505
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: the whole thing too. I mean, the implications of this

506
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: are are huge. So you've got Acosta embedded within the

507
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: current presidential administration, You've got Clinton on the Lolita Express.

508
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: Good gravy to Less Nichols, child protection consultant at R. L.

509
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: Nichols and Associates. You know, when people here at the

510
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: phrase child sex trafficking, they think, for instance, Thailand or

511
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: other countries that seem so far far away. It's happening

512
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: right here, Less Nickels, right under our noses. Oh is

513
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: it ever? And in fact, Nancy, you know, when you

514
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: fly into Atlanta, airport, the belief still the largest airport

515
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: in the country. What you're greeted with or warnings about

516
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: sexual trafficking and posters in the airport about sexual trafficking.

517
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: That's because Atlanta has become the leader. Out of about

518
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: nine or ten cities in the US, it's currently the

519
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: lead for sexual trafficking and for tourism sexual tourism. And

520
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: the reason is the location and the ease. I mean,

521
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: Atlanta is so perfectly located. In the central location. About

522
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: two thirds of the country can get to Atlanta in

523
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: about two and a half hours. You can fly in

524
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: in the morning, have an arrangement, have someone pick you

525
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: up in their limo, have sex with a child, fly

526
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: back home that night, have dinner with your family. It's

527
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: just so easy. You know, when you say sexual tourism,

528
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: I know that that's a common phrase, but it almost

529
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: makes it sound like, you know, it's innocent, it's just

530
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: a fun thing. Yeah, it's just harmless, I know, but

531
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: that's that's one of the terms used to describe it

532
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: to Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney joining me from New York. Jason.

533
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 1: Under federal law, the victims had to be notified when

534
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: this slap on the wrists went down thirteen months in

535
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: a private valet, but they weren't and then they file

536
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: suit over that what really cracked this case wide open

537
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: and ends up with Epstein being arrested again as front

538
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: door literally broken into with a battering ram. Well, that

539
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: was under the Crimes Victims' Rights Act. They pursued the victims.

540
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: One of the victims pursued that, and eventually the court

541
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: ruled that recently that it needed to be opened up

542
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: and that that non prosecutorial agreement, the NPA was not

543
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: valid because they weren't notified. So they used that act,

544
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: that federal act, to crack the non prosecuting Prosecutorial Agreement,

545
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: the NPA. They popped that open. The government initially argued that,

546
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, some of the victims might be harmed by this,

547
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: which is possible. There were financial settlements that could come

548
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: into play. But nonetheless, the prosecutors made I believe, as

549
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: we all do here, the right decision to reopen it

550
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: up and and and and take a good fresh look

551
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: and obviously to the point of an indictment here and

552
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: the rest, well, another group I want to look at

553
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: are all of those women as so called assistance that

554
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: would allegedly go out and find the victims and bring

555
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: them in for their quote modeling appointments. We wait as

556
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,