WEBVTT - *Happy Enough* Isn’t Enough with Abby Wambach 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:01.800 Hi Catherine. 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:03.280 Oh hi Chelsea. 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:05.360 Hi, you're talking to a forty nine year old woman. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.200 I mean, birthday, What a birthday? I had? Oh so 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.880 much love. You should see my house just covered in 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:18.040 flowers and champagne and drugs and cheese. It's just a fantasy. 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:19.480 I'm living out my fantasy. 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:20.560 That's great. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.520 What did you do on the day, Well, I have 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.160 some guests. I have about four friends at my house. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.920 They came in. So we had a big party Saturday 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.600 night for my friend Kelly and I. We had a 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.960 joint birthday party, which was really fun. Yeah, everybody got 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.800 real fun and we did dance. We did dance it, 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.400 we did dancing. My friend's like, are you Mollie because 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.760 you only dance when you're on Mollie. I'm like, then 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.319 I must be on Mollie anyway, you know how much 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.199 I love drugs. So we had a big party. Then 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.840 we got up the next day yesterday for my birthday, 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:59.240 and it was a blizzard, like blustery, crazy winds. That's 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.480 a good thing, right, I mean it was pretty gnarly conditions. 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.160 But for me, you know, it's fine. I love it. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:06.640 I love the cold, and I love that. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:08.880 And I mean I at one point it was skiing 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:10.560 down the mountain and the wind was so strong it 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.280 stopped me, like I'm going downhill and I just stopped. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.040 But I had a great time. I had a great 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.119 dinner at my favorite restaurant last night with a bunch 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.640 of my friends, and it was just one of those days, 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.840 like lots of lots of laughter, lots of surprises. My 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:28.960 friends always kind of set me up, set up a 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.760 little surprise area, you know, on the on the mountain somewhere, 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:34.920 and they put up a little happy birthday banner and 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.440 they were playing Bruce Springsteen for me, and they had 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.720 drinks and food and it was just really fun. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:43.800 You sound very loved up by all your phone. 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.319 I do feel loved. I feel very loved and I 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.520 love everyone. And I also lost my phone, so I 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.000 can't even check all my messages. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:52.840 I mean, that's great for your mental health, just like 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:54.880 no social media, no no. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:54.920 I know. 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.200 And plus I put oh yeah, I put I put 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:58.960 out my birthday video, so I have to see how 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.320 that performed. I want to see what my reactions are. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.840 But my friend just DM me saying your birthday videos 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:05.360 on the Today Show, so I guess it was a 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.880 big hit, fantastic. I added a second show in Vancouver. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.639 I added a second show in Didney, Australia. I added 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.919 the Santa Barbara Bull in August. Yay, you leave it there, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.720 huge and so yeah that was I performed there my 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:21.320 last tour and I was like, I need to come 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.359 here every time I perform. So that's exciting. And yeah, 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.240 I have added a bunch of new tour dates. I'm 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.400 going to be touring through all of twenty twenty four. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.120 I had such fun shows last weekend. We went to 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.960 Edmonton and Calgary. I brought one of my daughters. Well 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.360 she's my son. We call her my son, but everyone's 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.679 the opposite sex in our family, and everyone knows who's what. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:41.000 It doesn't really matter. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:42.800 They called me dad, so I have to call them 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.280 a son. And we went to Edmonton and Calgary, which 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:46.080 were awesome shows. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:46.360 Again. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.000 So yeah, anyway, I have Canadian dates left, but there's 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.400 only tickets left for the Vancouver show. Second show March thirtieth, 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.240 so awesome. Yeah, Okay, that's the story. 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:58.720 Morning glory good. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.919 Are you watching anything good anything on TV? Or watching 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:02.880 or movies you've seen? 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.000 No, I've been reading and writing mostly when I in 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.880 my spare time. I haven't watched anything in a few days. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.760 Yeah, I just went and saw. It's like barely on 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.400 in the theaters anymore, but I've just went and saw 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.400 the Zone of Interest. Did you see it? 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:16.600 No? No? No, what's up? 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.160 It is about Auschwitz and it's about a family that 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.520 lives right outside of Auschwitz and someone who works at 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.000 the camp, and it is I guess they actually screened 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.560 it at Auschwitz as well for people to come see it, 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.440 because it's such like an important film. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.640 How lovely. I didn't know Aschwitz had a screening room. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.320 I did neither, but you know that place has really 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:37.960 turned around. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.560 Yeah, it almost feels like a horror movie. It's very unnerving. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:45.760 It's called Zone of Interest, the. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.360 Zone of Interest, and it's up for an oscar or 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.560 two as well. It's haunting in a way that you 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.440 don't expect. And I've never seen anything like this. Oh 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.160 with that topic, so I great. Yeah, I would recommend. 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.680 I do have a follow up from one of our 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.800 callers from a recent episodisode, Akroneffa, who called in on 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.720 the Nicolevant episode. She wrote in to thank us for 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:11.040 chatting with her, and she says, I'm doing very well. Honestly, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.760 since having the opportunity to speak with Chelsea and Nicole, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.919 my perspective on losing my mom has changed. It was 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.600 their insistence that our mothers are always with us something 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.960 clicked in me, and I told myself that that's something 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.440 I will never question again. It almost felt sacrilegious to 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.640 my own intuition and inner knowing to constantly question if 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.680 my mom and ancestors are with me. So after that day, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.000 I made a decision to no longer question it, and 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.680 it's stuck. I also forgot to mention this during the podcast, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.120 but Chelsea was part of my decision to do ayahuasca 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.240 last year in Peru, and I got confirmation then too 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.440 that my ancestors are all around me. I'm grateful to 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.800 have had this fact confirmed again by Chelsea and Nicole. Sincerely, Akernaffa, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.120 I know, just a total sweetheart. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.839 Okay, our guest today is a two time Olympic gold 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.920 medalist and author of the number one New York Times 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.080 bestseller wolf Pack. Together with her wife Glennon Doyle, she 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.919 co hosts the award winning, critically acclaimed We Can Do 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.880 Hard Things to podcasts. So please welcome back to the show. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:10.680 Abby womback. 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:12.320 Are you in Whistler? 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:16.320 I am, Yes, I am. Where are you, sister? 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.119 It's in La at home. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:19.279 Are you guys at the beach? 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.560 We rented a place a block from our house that's 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.479 actually like right on the beach, so she can go 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.800 and write and paint there and that's really fun. So 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:29.359 we have like direct views. 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.800 That's cute. When she's not painting and writing there, What 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:32.960 are you using the house. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.560 For hanging out? Yeah, we do our work, most of 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.640 our real work in our real house, so we just 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.680 go over there for fun watching the sunset. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.760 That's cute. That's very cute. I haven't seen you since 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.159 the Angel City game, that's right. Congrats on Angel City 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.520 by the way. What an incredible organization to be a 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:51.880 part of. 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.560 Yeah, it's so cool. We're so proud of it. And 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.240 you know, it's just kind of like the beginning. I mean, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.920 just in terms of the business itself, in the business 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.000 of women's sports and the business of women's soccer, things 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.280 are really looking up. There's huge potential for growth and 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.880 literally to be sitting in the stands every single game, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:16.560 every single home game for Angel City. It feels actually 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.280 like a dream because I was there twenty years ago 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.760 when there was like forty to fifty people in the 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.720 stands and I was like still playing as hard as 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.599 I could, and so the experience for not just the 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.840 players is just drastically different. But to just go into 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.760 being into that environment, it's just it's really special. It's 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:37.679 really really special. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.640 Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to hear about how it 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.480 feels as a retired athlete to be a part of that, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.400 because it must be bittersweet. 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:53.120 Yes, very much jealous. There's a huge jealousy component. And 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.080 also this is kind of what I did all of 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.919 that work for. Early on in my career, one of 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.400 my coaches said to me, is like the first year 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.880 of my professional career. He said, well, everything that you've build, 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.000 it's going to be ten x one hundred x bigger 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.960 ten years after you retire. And I was just like 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.920 like fuck you, Like no way, Like it's gonna be 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.200 big while I'm here, you know, like I'm going to 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.800 reap the rewards for this, and he's like, no, you won't, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.240 and he was right. Sadly, Yeah, I made money, but 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.720 I didn't make nearly as much money as they're making now, 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.520 which is really great. You know, the World Cup, the 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.000 Women's World Cup is like one of the top four 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.080 or five viewed sporting events on television in the world 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.960 of all sports. That's above the Super Bowl, that's above 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:46.120 the NBA playoffs, like the number four out of ten. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.840 So we've come a long way. And yeah, I wish 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.680 I was out there playing, capable of still playing on 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.720 some level. But also I'm so tired, Like my body's old, 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.480 and it's fine, and it's totally both things can be true. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.960 I can have a little bit of fomo and also 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.320 just be sitting in the in the stands, you know, 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.119 reveling at the women on the field. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.560 Yeah, because you're part of it. You know, even though 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.520 you're not on the field, you definitely have a big 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.840 part in it. And so that must be fulfilling. It's 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.120 fulfilling to watch female succeed from my vantage point when 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:21.680 I don't really have. I mean, I've invested in a 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.120 lot of female sports because of obviously the uptick and 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.400 the you know, it's like women have been underserved for 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.200 so long. We serve it up and look how we 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.760 show up for each other. It's obvious and ridiculous where 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.680 we drive the entire economy. So that's really nice to see. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:38.320 I mean, you don't have to be in sports to 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.840 appreciate that women are getting the you know, attention that 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.720 they deserve and the respect that they deserve. And we 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:45.560 have a long way to go still, but it's nice 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.720 to see it happening in strides. I would say, Okay, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.960 so listen, I know you started therapy recently. 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.680 Yes, I have been in and out of therapy since 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.600 I guess college. My college coach forced me into therapy. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.320 It was not a willing participant. Let's just say that 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.440 I was not doing well in school. I was really 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.920 probably partying too much. And back then, this is in 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.520 the late nineties, gayness wasn't cool or hip. It was 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:19.080 like frowned upon. And she thankfully had a gay brother 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.280 and noticed that I was kind of having some of 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.920 these tendencies and wanted me to have somebody professional to 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.760 talk to. So I got into therapy then, and I 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.400 just recently started about six months ago, now, I guess. 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.720 And it all started because I did an Enneagram test 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.240 and we had an aneagram expert on. Her name is 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:47.400 Suzanne Stabil. She's incredible and She basically kind of said, look, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.320 you're an enthusiast. You need to work on your shadow side. 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.000 And when she said it, like it was like this 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.319 full body like Okay, finally you're right. I know it. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.960 I've always known it. Avoided the sadness, I've avoided the 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.960 pain of my life. I've avoided and I you know, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.080 for a lot of years I used I used drugs 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:11.839 and alcohol to numb the moments of those pains and 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.720 sadnesses and grief and heartbreak. And so I decided to 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.320 be kind of proactive about it, and I've been doing 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:23.079 quite a bit of work and it's been really fucking fascinating. Chelsea. 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.480 I have to tell you, and I didn't know this 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.920 at the time, but you know, my brother passed away 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.120 a couple months ago. So the world and the universe 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.440 kind of works in interesting ways to help, you know, 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:40.040 these little whispers help you prepare for what's ahead, and 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.199 so that's been really helpful through the grieving process of 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:44.280 losing my brother. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:45.839 I'm so sorry about your brother. 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.000 Yeah, it's so sad, and it's so it was such 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:54.160 a tragic you know, he's fifty one, and I'm so 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.400 glad that I started this work six months ago. I'm 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:03.160 so glad that I started to like create a relationship 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:08.880 with the sadder parts of myself and that has been 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:13.120 kind of a revolution for me. And PS like still 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.240 in the middle of this grief shit, like, wow, it's intense, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.320 it's really something. But I have like the professionals in 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.840 my life to help steer and guide me. And you know, 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:28.000 Glennon's obviously very enlightened in the world of feeling things. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.800 And so just weird because Glennon is working on we're 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.680 kind of like we've switched positions. She's working on different 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.680 stuff and I'm working on this sadness piece and the 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.600 sorrow and this grief piece right now. And I just 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.280 think that therapy has been And every time I go 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.520 I'm about to go into a therapy session, I'm like, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:47.720 I should probably just cancel. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.880 I don't really need it totally. That's exactly what happens 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.280 when you need it the most, right. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.760 Yeah, I don't really need this. And then after the 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.079 therapy session, I'm like, Okay, that was smart. I'm glad 0:11:58.120 --> 0:11:59.200 that I did not cancel. 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.320 Yes, Well, do you think there's a relationship between having 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.400 a relationship with the sad parts of yourself and your 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.839 shadow in your relationship with your shadow self, because I 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.240 think let's talk about the shadow self. For those of 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.760 us who are listening who aren't really familiar with that term, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.120 what does that mean to you? 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.560 Abby, I would say, I would say sadness is a 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.600 component of my shadow side. So as like a Gemini, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.800 I'm I'm born June second, so my sign is Gemini. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:33.120 I have like two parts to myself. I have always 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:40.840 identified more with the happy, joy, enthusiastic, light parts of myself, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:47.080 and I have pretty much ignored all of the sad, depressing, grieving, sorrow, 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.520 heartbreak shadow sides. It's easier to kind of think about 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.760 as in like light and dark. However, the more work 0:12:55.800 --> 0:13:01.480 I'm doing, the more I'm understanding that those are just 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:06.679 binaries that help our brains understand what feelings are. And 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:12.200 recently I feel like words are so incomplete when it 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.120 comes to this deep, hard work that I'm trying to do. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:18.800 So the way that I would think about the shadow 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.200 side are the parts of myself because Glenna and I 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.199 we do ifs, which is internal family systems, were versed 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.400 in it, and that's kind of the way in which 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:32.480 we are entering into the therapy space. We all have 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.839 parts of ourselves. And if you can imagine sitting at 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:41.120 like a table, and you have like a capital S 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.080 part which is like the wise, the smart, the one 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.960 that knows all the other parts, the one that accepts 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.880 and loves all the other parts of yourself. The shadow 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.880 side is like the fear and the terror, and the 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.840 anger and the trauma and the judging, like all of 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.320 these parts that are part of who we are, part 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.600 of why we are the way we are for certain reasons, 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.120 based on our experiences, based on our families, based on 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.840 our past, and those parts of myself. I've never really 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.000 given a voice at the table. I've never given a 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.640 chance to speak up. I'm like, nope, putting you away, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.840 locking you in the room, don't like you, you know. 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.880 And I've gotten heartbroken before, and so I then utilized 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:32.040 all these other modalities to avoid numb, to not deal with. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.400 So the irony of this grief now that I'm going 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.440 through is that because I have so many other unresolved 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.120 heartbreaks or grief that I've gone through, I'm also dealing 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.960 with them. It's like fucking whack themle I'm like Jesus Christ. Okay, okay, 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.440 we're going to go to nineteen ninety six here. Oh okay, great, 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.760 let's go. So that's kind of how I would talk 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:59.800 about the shadow side of myself at least. And it's complicated. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.240 It's not like one size fits all. It's not black 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.800 or white, it's not good or bad. It's just like 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.440 the human experience that I'm trying to have. I'm trying 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.560 to experience it more fully. And the more I do 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.120 this work, the more I realize the shadow side is 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:20.840 not dark. It's just a part of the spectrum of 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.680 my humanity. And it's something that I've kind of always 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.720 been a little afraid of, meaning like afraid of death, 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.000 you know, all of the Catholic things that I was 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:36.280 indoctrinated into believing. I'm trying to unwind and un unbelieve 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.000 because I don't think that it's it's light and dark 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.680 or good or bad. It's just people, complicated people having 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.840 gone through complicated circumstances that create parts of ourselves that 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.040 we either want to face or we don't. And I'm 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.240 finally just wanting to face myself. Now. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.000 Wow, Yeah, I think a lot of us can relate 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.760 to you learn so much about yourself through therapy that 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.400 you have to start to unlearn so many things. The 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.920 more you learn, the more you need to unlearn. And 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.280 so it's like this toggle back and forth. And I 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:12.480 know from personally when I didn't understand that what shadow 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.680 self meant for a long time, and when I was 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.800 in therapy it was revealed to me. But I assumed 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.760 all those negative thoughts or wanting bad things to happen 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.280 to bad people, or people to get their karma that 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.600 they deserved, or to be invidious of another, those were 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.120 all qualities that made me a bad person. When those 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.320 are just thoughts that are happening, you don't have to 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.880 subscribe to them or participate even in them. It's a 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.480 totally normal and human nature to have negative thoughts about situations, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.520 about yourself, about others about, to have lustfulness, to have jealousy, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.520 to have any of the things that are thought to 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:53.120 be negative. And the actual healthiest way to deal with 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.120 all of that is by acknowledging that they exist and 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.440 not letting them overpower you. And by that acknowledgment that 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.720 all of these thoughts exist in all each of us, 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.960 you aren't letting them overpower you. It's when you are 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.960 denying those thoughts and trying to put them away where 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:08.800 they do take over. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.359 It's good, that's exactly right. It's really good. 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.119 And I think also what's interesting about what you're saying 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.720 is one of the things that people who refused to 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.040 go to therapy, people who refuse to seek help, they 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.840 think they can get away with that and that it 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.560 won't knock on their door, and your grief and your 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.679 trauma don't go anywhere. They only get bigger inside of you. 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.800 They get bigger and bigger and bigger until there is 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:39.280 a break. And then sometimes that break is disastrous to 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:44.239 your well being, and sometimes it's easily recoverable. You can 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.760 go to therapy, you can like you know, seek out answers, 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.479 and it can be trying, but like, there is no 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.440 shortcut around it. So by evading all of these issues. 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.439 And there are people in my life who do this, 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.439 who are like, I don't have anything to I have 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.399 nothing to learn, like I want to do that, I 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.800 don't want to go there, And it's like, okay, but 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.280 it doesn't. Your life doesn't have to be this way. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:09.000 There is unadulterated joy and bliss waiting on the other side. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.000 For you, if you just have the bravery and guts 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.399 to go through this little tricky path that you're going 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:15.240 to have to go through. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:21.040 Yeah, it's scary. It's it's scary, it's expensive, Like it 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.480 feels like therapists are impossible to get booked right now, 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.359 and and so I do want to just say, like 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.320 it is a privileged position. I do feel privileged to 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.840 be able to provide and create an environment to be 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.440 in a therapy space. But I come from a family 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.159 who doesn't really subscribe to it. I mean, I have 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.520 a couple of brothers and sisters who are in therapy, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.040 but for the most part, my family's like therapy, what 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.600 are you gonna you know, what is that going to 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.320 teach me? And I don't think that we get away 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.040 with much as human beings. I think that some things 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.760 haunt us, you know, like we have like a deeper knowing. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.800 Like I mean, it's like when Suzan said, I think 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.720 that you're going to have to spend some time working 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.159 on your shadow side. It was like the secret I 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:12.120 have been keeping to myself from myself that she exposed 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.080 out loud, and it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.080 that's the thing I've been avoiding my whole life. That's 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.159 the work I need to do. And I'm finally, you know, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.359 in a space that I've been sober for you know, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:29.400 seven eight years now, and I'm solid in my marriage 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.320 with Glennon, and we're finally like in a place where 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.920 we're both doing like extremely personal work on our own selves. 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:38.760 And I think that we both needed to find each 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.240 other to be able to do this work. And so 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.320 I do feel lucky to be able to do it, 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.320 but I also know that they're I don't I don't 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.720 know if we get away with much. I think that 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.439 I think that even in our last breath, it's something 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.960 that will. I just want to make my transition into 0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:00.800 the next phase of whatever existence is after life. I 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.080 want to make that as peaceful as possible. And so 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.840 I want to do the work so that I feel 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.800 like all of it has been all of the stones 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.080 have been unturned as much as I possibly can. 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.680 And also so you don't have to repeat performance, right like, yes, 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.600 God forbid, we are being reincarnated and come back. I 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:20.439 don't want to come back. I want this to be 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.480 the last rodeo, like let me. I just want to 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.760 nail everything. I'm supposed to now give me a challenge. 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:27.720 I'm fucking on it, you know what I mean. I 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.879 don't want any hoops to jump through after this. I 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.679 want to go to sleep. Okay, so we're gonna take 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.200 some callers. Abby, thank you for your openness. I think 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:40.280 it's always fascinating to hear about, you know, people's lives changing. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.080 I mean, people's lives are always changing, and being open 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.600 to it is such a beautiful, bountiful thing to do. Like, 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.359 to be open to change in your life and to 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.879 not have this narrow minded view of things is just 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.960 like it's the key to freedom and happiness. Okay, we're 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:04.360