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Speaker 1: Hi Catherine.

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Speaker 2: Oh hi Chelsea.

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Speaker 1: Hi, you're talking to a forty nine year old woman.

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Speaker 1: I mean, birthday, What a birthday? I had? Oh so

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Speaker 1: much love. You should see my house just covered in

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Speaker 1: flowers and champagne and drugs and cheese. It's just a fantasy.

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Speaker 1: I'm living out my fantasy.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 1: What did you do on the day, Well, I have

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Speaker 1: some guests. I have about four friends at my house.

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Speaker 1: They came in. So we had a big party Saturday

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Speaker 1: night for my friend Kelly and I. We had a

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Speaker 1: joint birthday party, which was really fun. Yeah, everybody got

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Speaker 1: real fun and we did dance. We did dance it,

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Speaker 1: we did dancing. My friend's like, are you Mollie because

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Speaker 1: you only dance when you're on Mollie. I'm like, then

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Speaker 1: I must be on Mollie anyway, you know how much

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Speaker 1: I love drugs. So we had a big party. Then

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Speaker 1: we got up the next day yesterday for my birthday,

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Speaker 1: and it was a blizzard, like blustery, crazy winds. That's

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Speaker 1: a good thing, right, I mean it was pretty gnarly conditions.

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Speaker 1: But for me, you know, it's fine. I love it.

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Speaker 3: I love the cold, and I love that.

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Speaker 1: And I mean I at one point it was skiing

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Speaker 1: down the mountain and the wind was so strong it

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Speaker 1: stopped me, like I'm going downhill and I just stopped.

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Speaker 1: But I had a great time. I had a great

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Speaker 1: dinner at my favorite restaurant last night with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of my friends, and it was just one of those days,

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Speaker 1: like lots of lots of laughter, lots of surprises. My

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Speaker 1: friends always kind of set me up, set up a

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Speaker 1: little surprise area, you know, on the on the mountain somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and they put up a little happy birthday banner and

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Speaker 1: they were playing Bruce Springsteen for me, and they had

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Speaker 1: drinks and food and it was just really fun.

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Speaker 2: You sound very loved up by all your phone.

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Speaker 1: I do feel loved. I feel very loved and I

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Speaker 1: love everyone. And I also lost my phone, so I

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Speaker 1: can't even check all my messages.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's great for your mental health, just like

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Speaker 2: no social media, no no.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 1: And plus I put oh yeah, I put I put

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Speaker 1: out my birthday video, so I have to see how

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Speaker 1: that performed. I want to see what my reactions are.

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Speaker 1: But my friend just DM me saying your birthday videos

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Speaker 1: on the Today Show, so I guess it was a

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Speaker 1: big hit, fantastic. I added a second show in Vancouver.

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Speaker 1: I added a second show in Didney, Australia. I added

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Speaker 1: the Santa Barbara Bull in August. Yay, you leave it there,

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Speaker 1: huge and so yeah that was I performed there my

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Speaker 1: last tour and I was like, I need to come

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Speaker 1: here every time I perform. So that's exciting. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have added a bunch of new tour dates. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be touring through all of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I had such fun shows last weekend. We went to

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Speaker 1: Edmonton and Calgary. I brought one of my daughters. Well

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Speaker 1: she's my son. We call her my son, but everyone's

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Speaker 1: the opposite sex in our family, and everyone knows who's what.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: They called me dad, so I have to call them

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Speaker 1: a son. And we went to Edmonton and Calgary, which

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Speaker 1: were awesome shows.

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Speaker 3: Again.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, anyway, I have Canadian dates left, but there's

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Speaker 1: only tickets left for the Vancouver show. Second show March thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: so awesome. Yeah, Okay, that's the story.

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Speaker 3: Morning glory good.

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Speaker 2: Are you watching anything good anything on TV? Or watching

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Speaker 2: or movies you've seen?

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Speaker 1: No, I've been reading and writing mostly when I in

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Speaker 1: my spare time. I haven't watched anything in a few days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just went and saw. It's like barely on

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Speaker 2: in the theaters anymore, but I've just went and saw

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Speaker 2: the Zone of Interest. Did you see it?

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Speaker 1: No? No? No, what's up?

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Speaker 2: It is about Auschwitz and it's about a family that

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Speaker 2: lives right outside of Auschwitz and someone who works at

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Speaker 2: the camp, and it is I guess they actually screened

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Speaker 2: it at Auschwitz as well for people to come see it,

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Speaker 2: because it's such like an important film.

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Speaker 1: How lovely. I didn't know Aschwitz had a screening room.

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Speaker 1: I did neither, but you know that place has really

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Speaker 1: turned around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost feels like a horror movie. It's very unnerving.

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Speaker 1: It's called Zone of Interest, the.

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Speaker 2: Zone of Interest, and it's up for an oscar or

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Speaker 2: two as well. It's haunting in a way that you

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Speaker 2: don't expect. And I've never seen anything like this. Oh

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Speaker 2: with that topic, so I great. Yeah, I would recommend.

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Speaker 2: I do have a follow up from one of our

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Speaker 2: callers from a recent episodisode, Akroneffa, who called in on

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Speaker 2: the Nicolevant episode. She wrote in to thank us for

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Speaker 2: chatting with her, and she says, I'm doing very well. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: since having the opportunity to speak with Chelsea and Nicole,

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Speaker 2: my perspective on losing my mom has changed. It was

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Speaker 2: their insistence that our mothers are always with us something

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Speaker 2: clicked in me, and I told myself that that's something

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Speaker 2: I will never question again. It almost felt sacrilegious to

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Speaker 2: my own intuition and inner knowing to constantly question if

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Speaker 2: my mom and ancestors are with me. So after that day,

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Speaker 2: I made a decision to no longer question it, and

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Speaker 2: it's stuck. I also forgot to mention this during the podcast,

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Speaker 2: but Chelsea was part of my decision to do ayahuasca

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Speaker 2: last year in Peru, and I got confirmation then too

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Speaker 2: that my ancestors are all around me. I'm grateful to

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Speaker 2: have had this fact confirmed again by Chelsea and Nicole. Sincerely, Akernaffa,

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Speaker 2: I know, just a total sweetheart.

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Speaker 1: Okay, our guest today is a two time Olympic gold

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Speaker 1: medalist and author of the number one New York Times

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Speaker 1: bestseller wolf Pack. Together with her wife Glennon Doyle, she

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Speaker 1: co hosts the award winning, critically acclaimed We Can Do

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Speaker 1: Hard Things to podcasts. So please welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Abby womback.

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Speaker 3: Are you in Whistler?

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Speaker 1: I am, Yes, I am. Where are you, sister?

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Speaker 3: It's in La at home.

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Speaker 1: Are you guys at the beach?

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Speaker 3: We rented a place a block from our house that's

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Speaker 3: actually like right on the beach, so she can go

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Speaker 3: and write and paint there and that's really fun. So

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Speaker 3: we have like direct views.

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Speaker 1: That's cute. When she's not painting and writing there, What

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Speaker 1: are you using the house.

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Speaker 3: For hanging out? Yeah, we do our work, most of

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Speaker 3: our real work in our real house, so we just

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Speaker 3: go over there for fun watching the sunset.

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Speaker 1: That's cute. That's very cute. I haven't seen you since

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Speaker 1: the Angel City game, that's right. Congrats on Angel City

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Speaker 1: by the way. What an incredible organization to be a

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Speaker 1: part of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so cool. We're so proud of it. And

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Speaker 3: you know, it's just kind of like the beginning. I mean,

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Speaker 3: just in terms of the business itself, in the business

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Speaker 3: of women's sports and the business of women's soccer, things

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Speaker 3: are really looking up. There's huge potential for growth and

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Speaker 3: literally to be sitting in the stands every single game,

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Speaker 3: every single home game for Angel City. It feels actually

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Speaker 3: like a dream because I was there twenty years ago

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Speaker 3: when there was like forty to fifty people in the

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Speaker 3: stands and I was like still playing as hard as

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Speaker 3: I could, and so the experience for not just the

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Speaker 3: players is just drastically different. But to just go into

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Speaker 3: being into that environment, it's just it's really special. It's

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Speaker 3: really really special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to hear about how it

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Speaker 1: feels as a retired athlete to be a part of that,

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Speaker 1: because it must be bittersweet.

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Speaker 3: Yes, very much jealous. There's a huge jealousy component. And

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Speaker 3: also this is kind of what I did all of

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Speaker 3: that work for. Early on in my career, one of

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Speaker 3: my coaches said to me, is like the first year

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Speaker 3: of my professional career. He said, well, everything that you've build,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be ten x one hundred x bigger

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Speaker 3: ten years after you retire. And I was just like

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Speaker 3: like fuck you, Like no way, Like it's gonna be

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Speaker 3: big while I'm here, you know, like I'm going to

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Speaker 3: reap the rewards for this, and he's like, no, you won't,

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Speaker 3: and he was right. Sadly, Yeah, I made money, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't make nearly as much money as they're making now,

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Speaker 3: which is really great. You know, the World Cup, the

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Speaker 3: Women's World Cup is like one of the top four

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Speaker 3: or five viewed sporting events on television in the world

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Speaker 3: of all sports. That's above the Super Bowl, that's above

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Speaker 3: the NBA playoffs, like the number four out of ten.

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Speaker 3: So we've come a long way. And yeah, I wish

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Speaker 3: I was out there playing, capable of still playing on

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Speaker 3: some level. But also I'm so tired, Like my body's old,

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Speaker 3: and it's fine, and it's totally both things can be true.

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Speaker 3: I can have a little bit of fomo and also

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Speaker 3: just be sitting in the in the stands, you know,

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Speaker 3: reveling at the women on the field.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're part of it. You know, even though

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Speaker 1: you're not on the field, you definitely have a big

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Speaker 1: part in it. And so that must be fulfilling. It's

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Speaker 1: fulfilling to watch female succeed from my vantage point when

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Speaker 1: I don't really have. I mean, I've invested in a

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Speaker 1: lot of female sports because of obviously the uptick and

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Speaker 1: the you know, it's like women have been underserved for

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Speaker 1: so long. We serve it up and look how we

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Speaker 1: show up for each other. It's obvious and ridiculous where

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Speaker 1: we drive the entire economy. So that's really nice to see.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have to be in sports to

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Speaker 1: appreciate that women are getting the you know, attention that

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Speaker 1: they deserve and the respect that they deserve. And we

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Speaker 1: have a long way to go still, but it's nice

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Speaker 1: to see it happening in strides. I would say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so listen, I know you started therapy recently.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have been in and out of therapy since

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Speaker 3: I guess college. My college coach forced me into therapy.

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Speaker 3: It was not a willing participant. Let's just say that

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Speaker 3: I was not doing well in school. I was really

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Speaker 3: probably partying too much. And back then, this is in

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Speaker 3: the late nineties, gayness wasn't cool or hip. It was

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Speaker 3: like frowned upon. And she thankfully had a gay brother

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Speaker 3: and noticed that I was kind of having some of

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Speaker 3: these tendencies and wanted me to have somebody professional to

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Speaker 3: talk to. So I got into therapy then, and I

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Speaker 3: just recently started about six months ago, now, I guess.

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Speaker 3: And it all started because I did an Enneagram test

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Speaker 3: and we had an aneagram expert on. Her name is

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Speaker 3: Suzanne Stabil. She's incredible and She basically kind of said, look,

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Speaker 3: you're an enthusiast. You need to work on your shadow side.

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Speaker 3: And when she said it, like it was like this

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Speaker 3: full body like Okay, finally you're right. I know it.

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Speaker 3: I've always known it. Avoided the sadness, I've avoided the

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Speaker 3: pain of my life. I've avoided and I you know,

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Speaker 3: for a lot of years I used I used drugs

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Speaker 3: and alcohol to numb the moments of those pains and

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Speaker 3: sadnesses and grief and heartbreak. And so I decided to

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Speaker 3: be kind of proactive about it, and I've been doing

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Speaker 3: quite a bit of work and it's been really fucking fascinating. Chelsea.

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Speaker 3: I have to tell you, and I didn't know this

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Speaker 3: at the time, but you know, my brother passed away

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Speaker 3: a couple months ago. So the world and the universe

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Speaker 3: kind of works in interesting ways to help, you know,

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Speaker 3: these little whispers help you prepare for what's ahead, and

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Speaker 3: so that's been really helpful through the grieving process of

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Speaker 3: losing my brother.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry about your brother.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so sad, and it's so it was such

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Speaker 3: a tragic you know, he's fifty one, and I'm so

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Speaker 3: glad that I started this work six months ago. I'm

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Speaker 3: so glad that I started to like create a relationship

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Speaker 3: with the sadder parts of myself and that has been

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Speaker 3: kind of a revolution for me. And PS like still

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Speaker 3: in the middle of this grief shit, like, wow, it's intense,

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Speaker 3: it's really something. But I have like the professionals in

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Speaker 3: my life to help steer and guide me. And you know,

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Speaker 3: Glennon's obviously very enlightened in the world of feeling things.

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Speaker 3: And so just weird because Glennon is working on we're

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Speaker 3: kind of like we've switched positions. She's working on different

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Speaker 3: stuff and I'm working on this sadness piece and the

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Speaker 3: sorrow and this grief piece right now. And I just

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Speaker 3: think that therapy has been And every time I go

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Speaker 3: I'm about to go into a therapy session, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I should probably just cancel.

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Speaker 1: I don't really need it totally. That's exactly what happens

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Speaker 1: when you need it the most, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't really need this. And then after the

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Speaker 3: therapy session, I'm like, Okay, that was smart. I'm glad

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Speaker 3: that I did not cancel.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Well, do you think there's a relationship between having

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Speaker 1: a relationship with the sad parts of yourself and your

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Speaker 1: shadow in your relationship with your shadow self, because I

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Speaker 1: think let's talk about the shadow self. For those of

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Speaker 1: us who are listening who aren't really familiar with that term,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean to you?

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Speaker 3: Abby, I would say, I would say sadness is a

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Speaker 3: component of my shadow side. So as like a Gemini,

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm born June second, so my sign is Gemini.

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Speaker 3: I have like two parts to myself. I have always

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Speaker 3: identified more with the happy, joy, enthusiastic, light parts of myself,

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Speaker 3: and I have pretty much ignored all of the sad, depressing, grieving, sorrow,

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Speaker 3: heartbreak shadow sides. It's easier to kind of think about

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Speaker 3: as in like light and dark. However, the more work

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Speaker 3: I'm doing, the more I'm understanding that those are just

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Speaker 3: binaries that help our brains understand what feelings are. And

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Speaker 3: recently I feel like words are so incomplete when it

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Speaker 3: comes to this deep, hard work that I'm trying to do.

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Speaker 3: So the way that I would think about the shadow

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Speaker 3: side are the parts of myself because Glenna and I

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Speaker 3: we do ifs, which is internal family systems, were versed

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Speaker 3: in it, and that's kind of the way in which

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Speaker 3: we are entering into the therapy space. We all have

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Speaker 3: parts of ourselves. And if you can imagine sitting at

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Speaker 3: like a table, and you have like a capital S

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Speaker 3: part which is like the wise, the smart, the one

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Speaker 3: that knows all the other parts, the one that accepts

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Speaker 3: and loves all the other parts of yourself. The shadow

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Speaker 3: side is like the fear and the terror, and the

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Speaker 3: anger and the trauma and the judging, like all of

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Speaker 3: these parts that are part of who we are, part

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Speaker 3: of why we are the way we are for certain reasons,

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Speaker 3: based on our experiences, based on our families, based on

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Speaker 3: our past, and those parts of myself. I've never really

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Speaker 3: given a voice at the table. I've never given a

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Speaker 3: chance to speak up. I'm like, nope, putting you away,

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Speaker 3: locking you in the room, don't like you, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I've gotten heartbroken before, and so I then utilized

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Speaker 3: all these other modalities to avoid numb, to not deal with.

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Speaker 3: So the irony of this grief now that I'm going

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Speaker 3: through is that because I have so many other unresolved

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Speaker 3: heartbreaks or grief that I've gone through, I'm also dealing

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Speaker 3: with them. It's like fucking whack themle I'm like Jesus Christ. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 3: we're going to go to nineteen ninety six here. Oh okay, great,

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Speaker 3: let's go. So that's kind of how I would talk

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Speaker 3: about the shadow side of myself at least. And it's complicated.

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Speaker 3: It's not like one size fits all. It's not black

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Speaker 3: or white, it's not good or bad. It's just like

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Speaker 3: the human experience that I'm trying to have. I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to experience it more fully. And the more I do

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Speaker 3: this work, the more I realize the shadow side is

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Speaker 3: not dark. It's just a part of the spectrum of

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Speaker 3: my humanity. And it's something that I've kind of always

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Speaker 3: been a little afraid of, meaning like afraid of death,

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Speaker 3: you know, all of the Catholic things that I was

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Speaker 3: indoctrinated into believing. I'm trying to unwind and un unbelieve

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Speaker 3: because I don't think that it's it's light and dark

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Speaker 3: or good or bad. It's just people, complicated people having

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Speaker 3: gone through complicated circumstances that create parts of ourselves that

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Speaker 3: we either want to face or we don't. And I'm

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Speaker 3: finally just wanting to face myself. Now.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, I think a lot of us can relate

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Speaker 1: to you learn so much about yourself through therapy that

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Speaker 1: you have to start to unlearn so many things. The

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Speaker 1: more you learn, the more you need to unlearn. And

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Speaker 1: so it's like this toggle back and forth. And I

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Speaker 1: know from personally when I didn't understand that what shadow

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Speaker 1: self meant for a long time, and when I was

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Speaker 1: in therapy it was revealed to me. But I assumed

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Speaker 1: all those negative thoughts or wanting bad things to happen

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Speaker 1: to bad people, or people to get their karma that

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Speaker 1: they deserved, or to be invidious of another, those were

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Speaker 1: all qualities that made me a bad person. When those

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Speaker 1: are just thoughts that are happening, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: subscribe to them or participate even in them. It's a

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Speaker 1: totally normal and human nature to have negative thoughts about situations,

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Speaker 1: about yourself, about others about, to have lustfulness, to have jealousy,

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Speaker 1: to have any of the things that are thought to

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Speaker 1: be negative. And the actual healthiest way to deal with

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Speaker 1: all of that is by acknowledging that they exist and

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Speaker 1: not letting them overpower you. And by that acknowledgment that

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Speaker 1: all of these thoughts exist in all each of us,

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Speaker 1: you aren't letting them overpower you. It's when you are

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Speaker 1: denying those thoughts and trying to put them away where

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Speaker 1: they do take over.

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Speaker 3: It's good, that's exactly right. It's really good.

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Speaker 1: And I think also what's interesting about what you're saying

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Speaker 1: is one of the things that people who refused to

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Speaker 1: go to therapy, people who refuse to seek help, they

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Speaker 1: think they can get away with that and that it

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Speaker 1: won't knock on their door, and your grief and your

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Speaker 1: trauma don't go anywhere. They only get bigger inside of you.

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Speaker 1: They get bigger and bigger and bigger until there is

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Speaker 1: a break. And then sometimes that break is disastrous to

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Speaker 1: your well being, and sometimes it's easily recoverable. You can

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Speaker 1: go to therapy, you can like you know, seek out answers,

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Speaker 1: and it can be trying, but like, there is no

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Speaker 1: shortcut around it. So by evading all of these issues.

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Speaker 1: And there are people in my life who do this,

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Speaker 1: who are like, I don't have anything to I have

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Speaker 1: nothing to learn, like I want to do that, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to go there, And it's like, okay, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. Your life doesn't have to be this way.

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Speaker 1: There is unadulterated joy and bliss waiting on the other side.

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Speaker 1: For you, if you just have the bravery and guts

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Speaker 1: to go through this little tricky path that you're going

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Speaker 1: to have to go through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's scary. It's it's scary, it's expensive, Like it

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Speaker 3: feels like therapists are impossible to get booked right now,

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Speaker 3: and and so I do want to just say, like

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Speaker 3: it is a privileged position. I do feel privileged to

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Speaker 3: be able to provide and create an environment to be

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Speaker 3: in a therapy space. But I come from a family

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Speaker 3: who doesn't really subscribe to it. I mean, I have

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Speaker 3: a couple of brothers and sisters who are in therapy,

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Speaker 3: but for the most part, my family's like therapy, what

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Speaker 3: are you gonna you know, what is that going to

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Speaker 3: teach me? And I don't think that we get away

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Speaker 3: with much as human beings. I think that some things

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Speaker 3: haunt us, you know, like we have like a deeper knowing.

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Speaker 3: Like I mean, it's like when Suzan said, I think

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Speaker 3: that you're going to have to spend some time working

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Speaker 3: on your shadow side. It was like the secret I

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Speaker 3: have been keeping to myself from myself that she exposed

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Speaker 3: out loud, and it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's the thing I've been avoiding my whole life. That's

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Speaker 3: the work I need to do. And I'm finally, you know,

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Speaker 3: in a space that I've been sober for you know,

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Speaker 3: seven eight years now, and I'm solid in my marriage

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Speaker 3: with Glennon, and we're finally like in a place where

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Speaker 3: we're both doing like extremely personal work on our own selves.

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Speaker 3: And I think that we both needed to find each

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Speaker 3: other to be able to do this work. And so

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Speaker 3: I do feel lucky to be able to do it,

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Speaker 3: but I also know that they're I don't I don't

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Speaker 3: know if we get away with much. I think that

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Speaker 3: I think that even in our last breath, it's something

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Speaker 3: that will. I just want to make my transition into

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Speaker 3: the next phase of whatever existence is after life. I

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Speaker 3: want to make that as peaceful as possible. And so

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Speaker 3: I want to do the work so that I feel

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Speaker 3: like all of it has been all of the stones

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Speaker 3: have been unturned as much as I possibly can.

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Speaker 1: And also so you don't have to repeat performance, right like, yes,

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Speaker 1: God forbid, we are being reincarnated and come back. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to come back. I want this to be

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Speaker 1: the last rodeo, like let me. I just want to

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Speaker 1: nail everything. I'm supposed to now give me a challenge.

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Speaker 1: I'm fucking on it, you know what I mean. I

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Speaker 1: don't want any hoops to jump through after this. I

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Speaker 1: want to go to sleep. Okay, so we're gonna take

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Speaker 1: some callers. Abby, thank you for your openness. I think

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Speaker 1: it's always fascinating to hear about, you know, people's lives changing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, people's lives are always changing, and being open

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Speaker 1: to it is such a beautiful, bountiful thing to do. Like,

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Speaker 1: to be open to change in your life and to

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Speaker 1: not have this narrow minded view of things is just

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Speaker 1: like it's the key to freedom and happiness. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna take a break and we'll be right bay and

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Speaker 1: we're back with aviy wand back Olympic gold medalist and

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Speaker 1: author also. Okay, so we have some questions, Catherine, like,

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Speaker 1: we have some callers. Let's get going. Let's see what

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Speaker 1: we've got on the deck for today.

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Speaker 2: This next question I think fits in exactly what we

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Speaker 2: were just talking about. But Allison says, Dear Chelsea, I've

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Speaker 2: gone through some changes in the last six months and

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Speaker 2: have become very introspective and reflective. I've started working on

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Speaker 2: myself in order to be more confident and happy in

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Speaker 2: my life. And one thing I'm looking for help with

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Speaker 2: is forgiving myself of awful things that I've said to

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Speaker 2: people in the past when it was insecure and hurting. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: I would never say these things now that I've grown

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Speaker 2: as a person, but sometimes when I'm meditating or just

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Speaker 2: thinking to myself, a memory reminds me of a time

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Speaker 2: when I was a manager in retail and snapped at

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Speaker 2: a subordinate or didn't take someone's mental health issues seriously.

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Speaker 2: I've also said mean things when my temper flares up.

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Speaker 2: I won't remember saying it, but my sister said that

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Speaker 2: I really hit below the belt sometimes when I'm mad,

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Speaker 2: As I've learned to calm down and not lose control.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Chelsea, I hardly get mad anymore and have learned

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Speaker 2: to take a beat before responding. I know I need

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Speaker 2: to stop beating myself up about it, but is it

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Speaker 2: really worth apologizing to these people for things I said

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Speaker 2: years ago. I know we give ourselves closure, but I'm

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Speaker 2: wondering if others need that too. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: all your help. This podcast has been a real part

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Speaker 2: of my progression and self awareness. Sincerely, Allison and I

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Speaker 2: should say her subject line was therapized and ready to apologize,

432
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 2: So therapy has been a big part of this transition,

433
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: I think for her.

434
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean that's a very interesting question because it's like

435
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 1: how big was the infraction and how offensive were you

436
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: and is there a need to apologize so many years

437
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,479
Speaker 1: later If it was, like, you know, you snapping at

438
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: an employee, I mean, if you really feel the need

439
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: to go and do that, then yes, go, but also

440
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: it should be measured, like don't bring up something that

441
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: someone is probably not going to even remember. I mean,

442
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: it's a nice it's a nice idea, but it's more

443
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: kind of selfish than anything else in terms of if

444
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 1: it wasn't a big deal and you're just like, you know,

445
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: trying to make yourself feel better. I mean, you obviously

446
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: know if there are people in your life that you

447
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: really hurt, and that starts with your family and your

448
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: closest friends. When you're talking about employees, and if there's

449
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: like I would say, there's a statute of limitations with

450
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: regards to employees, Like if it was five years ago

451
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: and you snapped at someone, I don't know that you

452
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: need to send that person a letter. You can but

453
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: that's up to you. I just don't think that's a requirement.

454
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: If your sister has called you out on it repeatedly,

455
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: then that's the person you need to apologize too, and

456
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: any other people that have called you out on it

457
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: and said that their feelings have been hurt. And I

458
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: personally subscribe to this theory of you always get a

459
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: chance to make a new impression. And while this isn't

460
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: true for everyone in your life, you usually circle around

461
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: the people that you've hurt as an opportunity to resurface

462
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: in a way where they can see that you've changed

463
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: and they can see your growth, and you can act

464
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: in kindness and you can kind of make a new

465
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: impression to replace the last impression. I believe that to

466
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: be true. That has been true in my life, and

467
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: when I have that opportunity, I take it. So it's

468
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: more of like the opportunity presenting itself and me taking

469
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: it and leveling up to that moment, not seeking out

470
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: the moments. But that's just me. So it's whatever is

471
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: going to be best for your development and your peace

472
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: of mind. But also just think about when you're dealing

473
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: with these instances, who has really been heard and who

474
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: was just like, okay, whatever, that's just you know, a

475
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: moment in a day that they're nobody's going to remember totally.

476
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: I also, I just want to add it sounds to

477
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 3: me a little bit like you have a little bit

478
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 3: more work to do in the self forgiveness department, because

479
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 3: once you can access and create a relationship with yourself

480
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 3: around that kind of forgiveness of maybe what headspace you

481
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: were in, or what protective parts were rising up in

482
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: you to say these you mean things, or whatever it

483
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: might be, if you do actually truly understand those elements,

484
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 3: then self forgiveness can come because you can understand that

485
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 3: you were just trying to protect yourself for whatever reason.

486
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 3: We all were born and raised in different families, in

487
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 3: different houses, with different belief systems. You have different traumas,

488
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 3: you have different backgrounds, you have different experiences than all

489
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 3: of the people that you meet in your life that

490
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: give evidence as to why we respond in certain circumstances

491
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: rather than others. And I think that if you can

492
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 3: do a little bit more digging as to the why

493
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: of where you were at the time, what made you

494
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: respond or interact with people in certain ways that now

495
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: make you feel bad there was. I mean, this is

496
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: the work for me that I've done in my sobriety,

497
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 3: because you know, the shame is what just took me

498
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: down for so many years and kept me in the fight,

499
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: kept me in the grips of addiction for so long.

500
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: And until I figured out that addiction was serving a

501
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: part of me, that it was protecting me, that it

502
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: was protecting me in some ways, I was then and

503
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: only then able to forgive myself for the self harm

504
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: that I was inflicting upon myself. And that is when

505
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: I realized, oh, okay, then the amends come out because

506
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 3: you don't have shame around the action. So then you

507
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: can go and say all of your apologies, whether they

508
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: land or not is not your business, right. You only

509
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 3: can clean up your side of the streets. So that's

510
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: all I'll say.

511
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, I think that's very true because yeah,

512
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: we can also labor like our bad behavior, and it's

513
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: like that's not an act of kindness or forgiveness to

514
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: anyone either sitting there and ruminating over what you did

515
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: what you did. It's like you should also be able

516
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: to recale great your focus on the future and changing

517
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: that behavior and not repeating past mistakes right, and that

518
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: also gives you a sense of, oh, okay, some of

519
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: those apologies may not be necessary because you've actually learned

520
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: that you can do better when you know better.

521
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: Yep.

522
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you know, if you do decide

523
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: to like DM an old coworker or you know, discuss

524
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: it with your sister. I think Chelsea's point of not

525
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: making it about yourself is really important. So like, rather

526
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: than saying I've changed, I've changed, just like focus on

527
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: like here is my apology for how I was before and.

528
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: Making it light like, you know, I've been doing some

529
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: work on myself and I felt like this might have

530
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: been a pretty crappy thing to say to you at

531
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: this time. Just want to let you know I apologize,

532
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, and then that's actually takes it all off

533
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: of your plate and you don't have to even look

534
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: for a response, and if you get one, great, And

535
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: that's a generous, gracious person.

536
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Where our next question comes from Aarin. She was

537
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: a graphic designer. Aaron says, Dear Chelsea, on your episode

538
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 2: with ze Way, you talked about aging and how there's

539
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: a double standard for women. I've been thinking more about

540
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: that and wanted your advice. I've always looked quote young

541
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 2: for my age. Recently, several people have told me how

542
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: young I look. These were isolated events and by themselves

543
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 2: didn't bother me, but the collection of experiences have me

544
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: feeling self conscious. On one hand, I'm youthful and society

545
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: tells me that's a good thing, and I'm so lucky.

546
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: On the other hand, as I advance in my career,

547
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: I wonder if my appearance is holding me back. I

548
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: work in a male dominated field world really and feel

549
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: like I'm already second guest because I'm a woman. I

550
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: worry that looking younger is not helping my case. I've

551
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: been interviewing for some jobs, and some are in leadership positions.

552
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: My mom suggested I wear more makeup and interviews to

553
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: look older, but first, I suck at makeup, and second

554
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: it seems disingenuous. I want to be respected for being me.

555
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of sexism in the corporate world,

556
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: and I'm definitely jaded. I just don't know what to

557
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: do if I need to change my appearance, dress more mature.

558
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: I've even considered wearing fake glasses to get more respect.

559
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: Any advice would be great. Aaron hi erin Hi yo,

560
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: yo yo.

561
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: How's it going? Thanks for having me? Yeah, this is

562
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: Abby wamback our special guest for today. Hi Abby, what

563
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that?

564
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 5: Well?

565
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts, mostly because I haven't

566
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 3: subscribed to the patriarchal ideas of what womanhood could be.

567
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: I've kind of gone the opposite route. However, I've recently

568
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: texted Chelsea a couple of months ago because my face

569
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: is starting to get older and I'm getting you know,

570
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: crows feets and discolored eyes, the whole thing. So trying

571
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: to figure out what the next steps are because you

572
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: are going to get older. I do understand that it

573
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: might feel bad to present younger and you aren't getting

574
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: the same kind of spect I also think you teach

575
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: people how to treat you one way or another energetically.

576
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of like the idea that you

577
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 3: might be seen as like an underdog. I thrive in that, like, oh,

578
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 3: you think that I'm young, Oh you think I'm not

579
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: good enough, Like, oh, I can't wait to prove you wrong.

580
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: To me, it feels like it can be a positive,

581
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: but I totally understand how it can feel lonely and

582
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: debilitating on some level to try to progress in your career.

583
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: I'm not the person to talk about makeup with because

584
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, no makeup is the best option.

585
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 5: I'm kind of same boat.

586
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, and I don't think that. I mean,

587
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: how old are you? I'm twenty eight, Okay, you you

588
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 3: look like you're twenty eight to me, I don't.

589
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 5: I feel like, Yeah, everyone else in my life lately

590
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 5: I've been telling me differently, so that's good to hear.

591
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, I hate the idea. I mean, my

592
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: dad with my friend with this recently, or my friend

593
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: is dealing with this in her job recently, that she

594
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: needed to be dressing in a certain way for men

595
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: to take her seriously. And I take a lot of

596
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: offense to that, Like, I really don't think we should

597
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: be reorganizing our looks to make people respect us more.

598
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: That's not where respect comes from. Yeah, you want to

599
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: throw on a pair of glasses, great, okay, But it's like,

600
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: it's your disposition and it's your self assuredness that are

601
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: going to gain respect from others and your work and

602
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: your performance at work. So when you sharpen all of

603
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: those things and focus on the task at hand. It's

604
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: going to be indebutable, like how valuable you are based

605
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Your looks are going to

606
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: become they're they're the first thing that people see and

607
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: the first thing that people ingest. Unfortunately, but that doesn't

608
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: have to be the way it remains. And I think

609
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: our behavior dictates how we are treated in a workplace,

610
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: even when you are surrounded by men, because eventually, after

611
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: enough time goes by and you prove yourself to be

612
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: a valuable employee, people are going to respect that and

613
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: expect you to deliver value. Right, They're going to expect

614
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: And so I think the quickest road there is the

615
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: direct one where you're just proving by your performance how

616
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: valuable you are and standing assuredly in your own shoes,

617
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, standing up tall, standing up for yourself, not waffling,

618
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 1: not wavering. When men are trying to intimidate you, or

619
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: they're just intimidating you and they're not trying you, Actually,

620
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: that's a signal for you to be like, Okay, this

621
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: is my opportunity. This is my opportunity to stand my ground.

622
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: This is my opportunity to make a contribution here, Whether

623
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: it's conversational. Whether it's like workflow wise or it's about

624
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: a project, it's actually like an opportunity to gain respect

625
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 1: each time that you deliver something of value. Because what

626
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 1: I'm hearing from you is that you have a lot

627
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: of self respect, right yeah, so use that in your job,

628
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: and then that is going to be an undeniable thing

629
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: to people. Once you just keep putting that foot forward,

630
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 1: people are going to realize your value and you're going

631
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: to get past the hair and the makeup and all

632
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: that bullshit. That's all noise, that's I'm not real. Nobody

633
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: can be judged solely based on their appearance. That was

634
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: a very hard lesson for me to learn, because I

635
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: believe everyone was supposed to be physically attractive for me

636
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: to connect with. That's what I believe. For a long time,

637
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I don't like the way that

638
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: person looks. I don't think we can connect. It's like, wait,

639
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: what I mean? People aren't here to physically please me?

640
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: So it's actually so the opposite is true for you too,

641
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: Like you know you're you are physically pleasing too many people,

642
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: but that is not where your value comes from. So

643
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: the two things are very separate, and they should stay separate,

644
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: you know. And I wouldn't count out to what any

645
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: anybody's expectations are. You don't need to dress up or

646
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: any of that bullshit. That's just that's nonsense.

647
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 5: You know.

648
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: You stick to what you know, and you stick to

649
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: what you're good at, and people will catch on.

650
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 3: I also think you said something in your letter that

651
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: is really important. You said, I'm starting to become self conscious,

652
00:33:54,400 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: and that is problematic when you start only seeing herself

653
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: through the eyes from other people towards yourself. Becoming self

654
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: conscious is to become aware of who you are and

655
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: then to see out with your own eyes, to become

656
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: the positive way of being. Like, to know thyself is

657
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: such an important quality. But watch the vantage point. The

658
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 3: vantage point is really important when it comes to self consciousness.

659
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: And I think that the male gaze we forget that

660
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: we shouldn't be putting our consciousness in the eyes of

661
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: the male gaze.

662
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something I struggle with for sure. It's how

663
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 5: people perceive any constent.

664
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, y yes, I mean welcome to humanity, right, I'll

665
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 3: do it. Instagram, all social media. It makes us all

666
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 3: fucking crazy like that. But at the end of the day,

667
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 3: you have to figure out what you want to feel

668
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: and how you want to look. I mean, our kids,

669
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: they use makeup and stuff, and we are conscious. We're

670
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: always trying to ask. I'm like, are you doing this

671
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 3: for you or for other people? And they know better.

672
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: They're in high school now, they're like, I'm doing it

673
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 3: for my own sense of self and we're like, okay,

674
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: like we'll figure we'll deal with that problem another day.

675
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: But that self consciousness piece was something that really stuck

676
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 3: out in your letter.

677
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good that's a good point.

678
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think people are sort of simple when

679
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: it comes to like someone wearing a power suit and

680
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: a pair of glasses. Might you know, some people might

681
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: think they're smarter or more powerful, but you have to

682
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: do what makes you feel powerful when you're going into

683
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: these interviews. And to me, it doesn't sound like throwing

684
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: on too much mescara is going to actually make you

685
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 2: feel more powerful, right, It'll make you feel a little awkward.

686
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, going in with the look that

687
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: makes you feel most powerful, and also like you seem

688
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: like a very confident person, so like really channeling that yeah, awesome.

689
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Resting in who you really are is actually

690
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: the most powerful version of yourself that you can be,

691
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: regardless of whether what situation, whether it's a work dynamic

692
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: or whether it's a personal dynamic or it's a new

693
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: person dynamic that you don't know. Resting like not pushing

694
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: and actually resting in who you are, being present minded

695
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: when you are there and you are in focus, that's

696
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: what creates a flow state. That's what when you are

697
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: really there, like working to the best of your ability

698
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: and focusing on what your strengths are, knowing that you're

699
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: of value like that projects to the next person, then

700
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: that comes off of you and then that's that's kind

701
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: of an undeniable way to be. You know, people can't

702
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: argue with that because they don't know what it is,

703
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: but they know that they need to respect it.

704
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: That's right.

705
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much.

706
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: Well you're welcome, so much, good luck and thank you.

707
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: So go into your next meeting and tell all those

708
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: jackasses to go fuck off. I will perfect tell them

709
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: I sent you.

710
00:36:49,560 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: Oh bye, okay, all right, well, our next caller is Chloe.

711
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: Chloe says, dear Chelsea, longtime fan, love the show. I'm

712
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: in my mid thirties and have been with my husband

713
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: for over ten years. We met in my early twenties

714
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: and have had a really great relationship. We've always been

715
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: a bit different, me being more adventurous, outgoing and a dreamer.

716
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: He's more down to earth and practical. He's handsome, has

717
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: a good career, and has always treated me well. I

718
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: always thought that our opposites attract type relationship was a

719
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 2: good thing, but as the years have gone on, I

720
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: feel like we've only grown more different and this has

721
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: caused a lot of resentment. I feel like I'm being

722
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: stifled and not living to my full potential. In an

723
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 2: effort to help him feel more comfortable, I have a

724
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: lot of things that I'm passionate about, my career, home renovation, travel,

725
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: I fucking love skiing, and my friends. And side note

726
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: about the home renovation, they recently purchased like a house

727
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: to restore together, and I think that's been sort of

728
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: a bone of contention. All of this can be very

729
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: overwhelming for my husband. Additionally, I've always been straightforward about

730
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: not wanting kids, and although he says he's okay with this,

731
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: his words and actions throughout the years make me think otherwise.

732
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 2: I don't want either of us to have to compromise

733
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: so significantly for the other. And there hasn't been cheating,

734
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: lies or scandal that people typically associate with a good

735
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: reason for divorce. So am I wrong to feel that

736
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: I might want one? I recently asked him for a

737
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: trial separation and he has been devastated by this. Although

738
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: some friends are very supportive, others think I'm crazy for

739
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: leaving such a good man. Sometimes I do too, as

740
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: an outsider. Do you feel my concerns could warrant a

741
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: divorce or do I try and work it out? Chloe?

742
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 6: Hi, Chloe, Hey, how's it going?

743
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: Hi?

744
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: How are you? This is Abby, our special guest.

745
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 6: W I'm back Hi Abby, Hi Chelsea, Hi Catherine.

746
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: Hi, Hi Chloe. So you asked your husband for a

747
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: trial separation, but you're not separated yet, not officially. So

748
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: listening to your letter be read by Catherine, I did

749
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: not think you were going to go there. Can you

750
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: get into more specifics of what drove you to this separation.

751
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: It seems that he's leaning on you a little bit

752
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 1: more heavily.

753
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that you know, with relationships,

754
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 6: it's never like one. I mean it can be, but

755
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 6: a lot of times it's never just one specific thing.

756
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 6: And I think that the final breaking point for me

757
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 6: is we have this incredible, incredible home that I'm obsessed with.

758
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 6: It's kind of like my project. It brings me a

759
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 6: lot of purpose and joy. He fucking hates it, and

760
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 6: we just kept arguing about it, and really it was

761
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 6: just the culmination of everything of where our relationship was going,

762
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 6: you know, him wanting maybe a little bit more of

763
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 6: a simple life, simple career, you know, maybe starting a family,

764
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 6: and me going in this other direction where I'm really

765
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 6: growing a lot in my career, growing a lot in

766
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 6: my passions. You know, I still like absolutely love to

767
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 6: travel and be with my friend and have a really busy,

768
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 6: crazy life that doesn't include the family. And there was

769
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 6: just something that happened with this house that we have

770
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 6: that was just a breaking point. I was just like,

771
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 6: I gotta, I gotta step away from this. I just

772
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 6: don't know if we are headed in the right direction anymore.

773
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like he shouldn't be a part of

774
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: that project to begin with, because, first of all, the

775
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: number one reason couple's breakup is from a house renovations

776
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: that happens I've been in. I was in a relationship

777
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: with a man we were building. We bought these things

778
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: and we were renovating them, and our designer was like,

779
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: the number one reason couple's breakup is because of this,

780
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, who are those

781
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: people cut to? We fucking broke up. So, I mean

782
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: because he was so annoying about this, and I was like,

783
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck, Like I couldn't believe he

784
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: wanted to go to all these appointments with me, and

785
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: it was just so annoying. But like, it's not for everybody.

786
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: That's your passion clearly and not his. So like does

787
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: he need to be involved?

788
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 6: So we tried it both ways. We've flip flopped it

789
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 6: several times. We've had this home for about five years now,

790
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 6: and we've tried it where he's fully involved. We've tried

791
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 6: it where it's partly involved, completely not involved, and none

792
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 6: of the options have worked.

793
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: None of the options have worked.

794
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 6: None of the options have worked.

795
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 1: Okay, and so you think a trial separation is where

796
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: you're at.

797
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 6: We are in trail separation right now. But we've been

798
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 6: doing this now for a while, probably about six months

799
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 6: or so, and I think where I'm at right now

800
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 6: that I really need some help and advice on is

801
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 6: I don't feel any different than I did when I

802
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 6: asked for this. You know, when I asked for this,

803
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 6: I actually felt really relieved. And the things that I

804
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 6: do that are kind of separated from him excite me.

805
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 6: And when I think about getting back together, I'm like,

806
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 6: it gives me a lot of anxiety, to be honest,

807
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 6: and the hard part is is he is overall a

808
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 6: very good man. He is honest, he is good looking,

809
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 6: he has a great job, He's always been very good

810
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 6: to me. But I feel like I'm at this breaking

811
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 6: point of like, is this still what I want to

812
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 6: do for the rest of my life? I'm fucking scared

813
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 6: of being alone. Am I giving up somebody who is

814
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 6: a really, really good person who loves me a lot,

815
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 6: just for the sake of more freedom?

816
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: Are you guys in therapy?

817
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 5: Yes?

818
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? And has that gleaned any different feelings for you?

819
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 1: Or is it just not really?

820
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 6: I feel like it's just a competition constantly of like

821
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 6: who's the better person or who's the worst person. I

822
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 6: feel like we've changed therapists three times, and unfortunately way, you.

823
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: Should change therapists if they're not working. That's what the

824
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: problem so many people is that they think that they're

825
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: stuck with the one they found. It's like, no, there

826
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: are a million therapists out there. Well, they may be

827
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: very busy right now, there's always somebody else, you know,

828
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I mean, from what you're saying,

829
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: it seems like you have one foot out the door

830
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: and you are out the door. And I mean a

831
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: lot of people would be listening to this, and I'm

832
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: sure are going, what's this woman's problem? You've got all

833
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: these things that so many women would want, but it's

834
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: still not enough for you. And that's fine too, Like

835
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: you should know what's enough for you if this is

836
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: going to fulfill you. You're saying that you're being excited by

837
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: all these other things outside of your life that aren't

838
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: involved in your marriage. I mean, that's your answer right there, right,

839
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: And you want me to tell you to leave your husband? Gosh,

840
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: I don't.

841
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 6: I mean it's so fucking hard, you know, Like, yeah,

842
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 6: you're right. A lot of women, including my friends, including

843
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 6: my mother, they're all like, are you crazy? You know,

844
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 6: he's crazy about you and you've got such a good

845
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 6: thing going that so many people want.

846
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 5: But I don't know.

847
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 6: Maybe I am crazy, and maybe I don't.

848
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: I don't think you're crazy. I just I just want

849
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: to acknowledge all the women that are listening to this

850
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: thinking because I know they are going, oh my god,

851
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: what's this woman complaining about? And I would like to say,

852
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: good for you for knowing that this isn't enough. Like

853
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: it's good for you for being in touch with yourself

854
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: and enough to know, Okay, I'm scared of being alone,

855
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: but I'm not scared enough to not do it. That

856
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: is a very powerful thing for a woman to feel,

857
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: and I applaud that. And I think that you know

858
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: the answers to these questions. And so I'm not going

859
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: to give you any answers because I'm not going to

860
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: decide your relationship for you, because you've already figured it out. Abby,

861
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: You're nodding, what are you thinking?

862
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 3: Well, I think that I don't know, Chelsea. I don't

863
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 3: think you've been married and divorce right.

864
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: No, No, I didn't want to get divorced, so I

865
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: didn't get married.

866
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think I might be the only one

867
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: who's been through a divorce on this on this.

868
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: Little perfect what don't you take it?

869
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

870
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 3: And I mean, Chelsea, you said it right. It sounds

871
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 3: to me like you already know what you know and

872
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: you're pulling the crowd with which you know. All of

873
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 3: these people, myself included, can give you all the advice

874
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 3: in the world, but you're the only one that really

875
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 3: knows what you want. And people grow apart. I mean,

876
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: I cared so much for my first wife, like we

877
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: were mad about each other, and then things change, Life happens,

878
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 3: You get to change your mind, you get to go

879
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: in a different, a totally different direction what I want

880
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 3: to say. And this was true for me, and I

881
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 3: think it's true for all of us. There's something inside

882
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 3: of you. Might be deep, you might be just starting

883
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 3: to listen to her, but there's a part of you

884
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 3: that is inside of you that you are listening to

885
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: and it's always been there, And just turn up the

886
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 3: volume on her a little bit now. Doesn't mean you're

887
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 3: going to get a divorce. I have no idea, but

888
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: there's something that it's trying to say, and I think

889
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 3: that you deserve to sit and listen to that little

890
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 3: part of you you and ps no matter what you decide.

891
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 3: I'm here to tell you it's going to be okay.

892
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is.

893
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 3: It already is okay because you've got you. And that

894
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: was one thing that I forgot when I was going

895
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 3: through my divorce because I was so a mesh with

896
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: my ex that I forgot that I had me independent

897
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 3: of that other person. And that is a hard truth

898
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: to swallow, especially because you committed to this marriage. And ps,

899
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: if you do choose to get a divorce, that does

900
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: not mean that your marriage was a failure. These are contracts.

901
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 3: Maybe your contract with this person is up. That's for

902
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: you to decide, and it's gonna be okay. And I

903
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 3: know how fucking hard it is, and I'm sorry because

904
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 3: it is a really big stress and it is hard.

905
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 3: Both things can be true at the same time. Staying

906
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: is hard, leaving is hard.

907
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

908
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 6: I mean so much of what you said hits so true.

909
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 6: I do feel like there is this internal voice that's

910
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 6: just like screaming that something's not right.

911
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 3: Chills. I just got chills all over my body.

912
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

913
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: And also, you know it's not going to feel like

914
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: this initially, but when you leave a situation that isn't

915
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: right for you. You're acting in service to both of you,

916
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: to you and your husband, because he deserves to be

917
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: with someone who does love him and who he can

918
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: share his life with and you know, not have to

919
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: have a person there kind of figuring out.

920
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 3: There is no such thing as one way liberation. Liz

921
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 3: Gilbert says that there is no such thing as one

922
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: way liberation. You will be doing him a service. Also.

923
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 6: Oh, I believe that too, you know, especially with the

924
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 6: Although he says that he is happy enough with me

925
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 6: to stay with just me together without having a family,

926
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 6: I do think deep down that's really what he wants

927
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 6: to and I think that in this I could really

928
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,439
Speaker 6: see that for him in the future, and I want

929
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 6: him to have that if that's what she really wants.

930
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, happy enough isn't good enough?

931
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 6: So true?

932
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Okay, Well I'm glad you called in.

933
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 6: I am so grateful and glad that you guys had me. Honestly,

934
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,479
Speaker 6: I mean, I've tried a lot, tread therapy, tried taro

935
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 6: and tell a lot of things. I'm like, hey, I'm

936
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 6: gonna try Chelsea and whatever. Awesome guess she has on board.

937
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you so much for calling in, and good

938
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: luck to you, Thank you bye. That's a good caller

939
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: for our listeners to listen to.

940
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like the answer is easier when it's like, Okay,

941
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 2: this person is a monster. When the person's not a monster,

942
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: it's such a harder decision.

943
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like it's so powerful to just go

944
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: this is good, but it's not good enough. Yeah, this

945
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 1: isn't enough for me. Like that's our lives are supposed

946
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: to be as as great as we can possibly make them,

947
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: not just like Okay, I hit this marker, I'm good,

948
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: right Abby? What what you never? Are you? A? Seven?

949
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: Enthusiasts on the Enneagram? Okay, yeah, I'm an eight?

950
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 3: What is an eight? Chelsea? What's an eight?

951
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: An eight is a fixer like come in, fix it

952
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,959
Speaker 1: and then but but harsh, like hard, like just wants

953
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: to come in fix everybody's problems and then fuck off.

954
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 1: That's exactly who I am. I'm like, please don't bother

955
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: me again. Okay, but seven, that's interesting to know the

956
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: enthusiast has has to do work on their shadows self,

957
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: because this enthusiast is like the happiest kind of number

958
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: on the on the spectrum. I think forward facing like

959
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: big vibes, good vibes, happy. Yeah, So that's interesting because yeah,

960
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: if I have this new therapist who says, like, if

961
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: this is true, the equal and opposite thing is true. Right,

962
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: if you're feeling great and you're feeling expansive and you

963
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: want and you're just joyful, like be careful because they're

964
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: the equal and opposite part is true too, and you're

965
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: just not tuned into that. And it's like, oh, Okay,

966
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: that's important to know. You know, everything is a balance,

967
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: You're not just nobody is one thing, and in fact,

968
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: if somebody is a lot of they're also a lot

969
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: of the opposite of that thing.

970
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: That's right. And I think that I, I mean, my

971
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 3: whole family would describe me as like an M and M.

972
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: I have like a hard exterior shell, but I'm so

973
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 3: gooey and like soft on the inside. But because of

974
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 3: what I did for so long as an athlete, you know,

975
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: I basically put on armor to protect myself from these

976
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 3: parts of sadness or sorrow or heartbreak or grief. And

977
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 3: I did a really good job because I'm very strong

978
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: and I'm very powerful and I have a lot of willpower.

979
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean all the parts of yourself have

980
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 3: to get seen and they need the light of day.

981
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 3: It's hard work, I tell you what, It's not easy.

982
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 3: It's not easy to sit and literally sit in the

983
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 3: grief and let it drop from your head. You know,

984
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 3: I went through a few weeks of bargaining and trying

985
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: to find the justice in it and trying to understand

986
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 3: it and make meaning of it. And it's like, I

987
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 3: don't I don't think that that's you can't do grief

988
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 3: in your head. It's just got to go through you,

989
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 3: all through your body. And you know, Chelsea, I know

990
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 3: you lost your brother when you were super young, which

991
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: is a different experience. But it's just like it's the

992
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: worst and also oddly the best. It's weird to go

993
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 3: through the to go through it the way that I'm

994
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 3: going through it. It's like I feel like I'm really trying.

995
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 3: I'm honoring my brother, whatever the fuck that means.

996
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 1: Well, I think as an adult, especially someone who has

997
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: been to therapy, you have way more tools to deal

998
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 1: with that kind of loss, and you can make more

999
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: sense out of it. Even though it's senseless, it is

1000
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: a fact of life and a part of life that

1001
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: we all have to deal with is losing loved ones.

1002
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 1: And as we get older, we have more skill sets

1003
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: and we have more capacity to understand that life is

1004
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: bigger than what we know, and that we know less

1005
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: than we think we do, and we accept that we

1006
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 1: don't know and there are things we don't have answers

1007
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: to and that we never will And so trying to

1008
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: make sense out of death is pointless. There is no sense.

1009
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: It's not sensical. It's the same thing that's what happens

1010
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: in war. It's not sensical. There's no way to make

1011
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: sense of it, you know. So I think you know

1012
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: your body has to go through a grieving process separate

1013
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: from your mind, and you have to have a lot

1014
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: of work under your belt to understand the difference between

1015
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: those two things, and that the that they your mind

1016
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: and body work in concert, but they're also very disconnected,

1017
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,439
Speaker 1: you know, until you do the work to connect them.

1018
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 1: That's why, like when people get nervous they start shaking

1019
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: or they start quivering, it's like that's because your brain

1020
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: is sending your body a signal that you're not comfortable,

1021
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: that you're not prepared, that you're scared, that you're fearful,

1022
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: that you're nervous, whatever those signals are. It's like, that's

1023
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: how everything works in that circuitry. It's not easily measured,

1024
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: so people don't take it seriously. You know, energy and

1025
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: and body mind chemistry and connection. I mean, we're learning

1026
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: more about it now, but it is fascinating and I

1027
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: love to learn about that because you hear about so

1028
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: many people. You know, they have a physical reaction to something,

1029
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 1: but they don't understand why because their brain has repressed

1030
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: that memory, but their body remembers that feeling.

1031
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: Well. Yeah, being an athlete, I think that, especially an

1032
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: elite athlete for thirty plus years, I learned how to

1033
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 3: mind over matter physical experience. So the suffering that it takes,

1034
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: the lifting weights, the sprints, the diety like whatever it was,

1035
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 3: I was able to do it. And so I have

1036
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 3: this unconscious belief I think that I can beat grief,

1037
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: that like, I don't need to do it because I

1038
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 3: know how to mentally leapfrog all of these difficult things,

1039
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 3: these outward these external struggles, and that just ain't it.

1040
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 3: It's just not it. And I've thought a lot about

1041
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: that in the last few months, like, oh my gosh,

1042
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 3: this is unlike anything I have been tested at and

1043
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 3: it's confusing for my body because my body's like, we

1044
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: can do anything. You are a superstar, like what's happening,

1045
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 3: And my body's like, Nope, can't do it. Like just

1046
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 3: even these last two weeks, I've been like I can't

1047
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: even go for a walk. I've just like kacooned myself.

1048
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 3: And there's this little wise part of myself that's like

1049
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 3: speaking up, going, yes, this is what you need. Be still.

1050
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 3: You have used your body to jump out of grief before,

1051
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 3: you have used your body to overcome and not pay

1052
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 3: attention to some of this stuff. So it's to be still,

1053
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 3: feel sorrow, feel sad, whatever it might be.

1054
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: Absolutely Okay, we're going to take a break and we'll

1055
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: be right back to wrap things up with you. Abby

1056
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: wan back. Okay, we're back, Abby. Thank you for your candor.

1057
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,959
Speaker 1: I loved hearing you talk about therapy. I'm sure many

1058
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: of our listeners also loved it. It's so nice when

1059
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: you are able to talk freely about getting help right Like,

1060
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: it's such a gift to other people to hear that

1061
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: you're not nobody's alone and nobody's going through it as

1062
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: something that no one else has been through because that's

1063
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: just not true.

1064
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 3: That's right. Every person on the planet has and is

1065
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 3: or is currently experiencing something that you're experienced, Like this

1066
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: experience down here is not one sided. We're doing it together.

1067
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 3: Whether we will like that or not, it's happening, and

1068
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 3: there are experts out there that can help navigate and

1069
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 3: help us navigate for ourselves the life that we want

1070
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 3: and the way in which we want to go about it. Right,

1071
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 3: And I get that not everybody buys into some forms

1072
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 3: of therapy, but there are so many different kinds of therapy.

1073
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: You know, you have talk therapy, you have a lot

1074
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 3: of psychedelic stuff that's happening in the world. You've got

1075
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 3: for me, this IFS Internal family systems. People should look

1076
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 3: into it because it's a totally different approach where it

1077
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: makes it so much less personal, which feels counterintuitive, but

1078
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: it really works for me because especially with all the

1079
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 3: shame stuff that I could go down with it with

1080
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 3: my addictive behaviors. There's just so many different kinds. So

1081
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: maybe you go to a therapist and it doesn't work

1082
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 3: for you, find a different therapist that's in a different

1083
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 3: genre of therapy.

1084
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, IFS. I've read about and I'm interested and curious

1085
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: to hear more about it. We should find somebody who

1086
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: could speak to that. Catherine on the podcast because I

1087
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: liked what I read so far.

1088
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 3: Dick Schwartz is the guy. We actually just had him

1089
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 3: on our podcast. He's like the father of it.

1090
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 1: And okay.

1091
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 3: He took me, Glennon and Amanda through an exercise, an

1092
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 3: IFS exercise, which I think you should just have him

1093
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 3: on it. It's super interesting. I think that you would

1094
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 3: actually really really like it, Chelsea, love it.

1095
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we will thank you Abby so much. So

1096
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 1: great to see you.

1097
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 3: So good to see you guys. Thank you so much

1098
00:56:59,480 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: for having me.

1099
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, anytime, take care and come back for sure. Okay. So,

1100
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is my game.

1101
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry I misspoke.

1102
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: I have added more shows. I added a second show

1103
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: in Vancouver, so I have two shows in Vancouver March

1104
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: twenty ninth March thirtieth, I am coming to Calgary, Victoria, Colowna.

1105
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: Then I've added another show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth,

1106
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: So I have two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth.

1107
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: For other shows in Australia at New Zealand, go to

1108
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler dot com. And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman,

1109
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: Oklahoma on May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which

1110
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: is May fourth, and then I'll be at the YouTube

1111
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: Theater May eleventh in Los Angeles with Matteo Laine and

1112
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: Vanessa Gonzalez and Fortune Femster and Sam Jay. Those are

1113
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: my updates and more shows are coming, so pay attention.

1114
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

1115
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

1116
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 2: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

1117
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and

1118
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot

1119
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: com