WEBVTT - Making History in Hollywood, with Debra Martin Chase 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.800 Welcome to Made by Women, a new podcast by the 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.760 Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. At a 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.319 moment when businesses face some of the biggest challenges in 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.800 recent history, we bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.600 shared learnings to help you successfully navigate in today's environment. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.159 Every Thursday, Made by Women will showcase the experiences of 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.640 legendary women, entrepreneurs, fierce up and comers, and everyday women 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.720 who found success their own way. Consider this your real 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:45.680 world n b A designed for the new Now. I'm 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.880 Kim Azzarelli and thanks so much for joining us today. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.160 Most career paths aren't a straight and narrow line, and 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.639 that's a good thing. Da Brow. Martin Chase graduated from 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.560 Harvard Law School in the early eighties and practiced law 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.160 for the better part of the decade. Her love for 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.560 films and an interesting career opportunity led her to the 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.160 entertainment industry, where she would become the icon who brought 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.160 us fan favorite films like The Princess Diaries, The Sisterhood 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.920 of the Traveling Pants, and The Cheetah Girls. Most recently, 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:26.320 her company, Martin Chase Productions produced Harriet, the critically acclaimed 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.160 film based on the life of the underground railroad freedom 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.560 fighter Harriet Tubman. Debra is the first black woman to 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.800 produce a film that grossed over a hundred million dollars, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.080 and to date her films have grossed over half a 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.480 billion dollars at the box office. In this episode of 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.520 Made by Women, Seneca Women's Sharon Boone interviews her longtime 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.120 friend Deborah Martin Chase. Here how Debora got her start, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.640 the ways she updated her business approach to stay current 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.600 through changing times, and how she worked her way to 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.400 the top of an industry notoriously tough on women, especially 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:07.320 black women. Enjoy their conversation, Debora, thank you so much 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.320 for joining me today. I'm Made by Women. Happy to 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.919 be here, Sharon, So Deborah for our listeners. How did 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.000 a Harvard Law school graduate end up working in motion 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:22.639 pictures and television? I have always loved film and television. 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.800 My dad was the biggest film and television buff that 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.120 I ever knew, and so I grew up in a 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.320 household where we talked about movies at the dinner table. 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.480 And you know, I was that kid that sat in 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.079 the movie theater all Saturday afternoon and watched up over 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.040 and over again. And you know, I also realized how 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:49.560 important the images that I saw on screen were to 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.919 my p O V on the world. And then the 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:57.120 themes even though you're you know, you are realizing and 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.160 at the time, you know, had the messages and the 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.799 themes had a huge impact on my development as a person. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:08.040 So it was always the dream. I didn't know anybody 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.040 in the entertainment business. I had no idea how to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.960 get into it. So I went to law school and 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.880 I practiced for a few years and constantly talked about 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.160 getting into the entertainment business. And finally just reached that 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.400 point in my life where you know, I was a 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.520 really good lawyer, but I didn't love it. And I 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.720 was like, if not, if I don't try to get 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.040 into the entertainment business now, then when would I ever 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.760 do it? So I jumped off the cliff. So dere 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:38.720 we then, what was your first job in the in 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:40.920 the industry? You did you follow in love with it 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.320 right away or did it take you some time to 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.119 to find your place? You know, Listen, Like I said, 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.040 it was like a dream come true. So I actually, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.400 while I was still practicing law, I spent a year 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.920 learning about the business and I knew that I wanted 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:01.559 to come up with the ideas for movies and television, 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.360 and that was either a producer or you know, kind 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.839 of inside the the system, it was a studio executive 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:14.320 for two years. Columbia Pictures had an executive development program 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.359 that was started by the then chairman, Victor Kaufman that 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.040 was designed to bring people into the industry from different disciplines. 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.320 But you know, I came in as an experienced lawyer, 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.039 So I ended up spending the first year in the 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.600 legal department because they had like an experience lawyer who 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.520 was willing to work her butt off and they didn't 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.000 have to pay me. And then my my and my 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.960 big break was I sat next to the new chairman, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.239 Frank Price, at a program luncheon and we hit it off, 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.000 and about two months later he brought me up to 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.960 be his executive assistant and that I went with him 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.840 to all of his meetings. I read scripts for him. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.839 We would sit in the evening in his office and 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.400 I got to ask any questions that I wanted to 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.760 about the decisions he had made throughout the day. He 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:06.159 really just wanted me to learn um and so yeah, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.359 I was pinching myself. It was like I worked super hard. 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.440 I made no money in Retrospect. I look at it 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.880 as my graduate school, but I was your training in 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:21.159 the thick of it. Yes, exactly, exactly from the hands 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.520 of you know, Frank in Retrospect was one of the 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.839 last of the old fashioned studio bosses, so learning right 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.560 from him. So that's amazing. So that was that internship 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.239 gave you a foot in the door, which I'm sure 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.240 hopefully that happens for people today to to get that 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:44.880 foot in the doors. It's hard. It's really hard. It's 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.960 really it's gotten harder because just the business has become 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.920 more corporate. There's a group of us that are really 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:56.760 trying to make a difference. So so look that experience. 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.599 Why did you decide to start your own production and company? 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.320 What was the sport that really drove you to do that? 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.760 You know, it just became inevitable thing. It wasn't so 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.320 much that I planned it. After working with Frank for 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.920 six months, I was a studio executive at Columbia Pictures, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.440 and then I went to run Denzel Washington's production company 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.320 for four years, and then I partnered with Whitney Houston 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.479 and we started a company at Disney and that was 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:31.560 for five years. And when that company kind of came apart, 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.799 you know, I started and it was I had Princess 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.520 Diaries was in the can, but it had not come 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.920 out yet, and in my gut, I felt that the 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:44.599 movie was going to be something special. But I started 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.640 going on interviews and and basically, you know, I was 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:53.560 interviewing with prominent white male producers who had companies to like, 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.680 come in and you know, probably be their number two person, 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.320 and I just said, I don't, this is not what 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.440 I want to do. Yes, So being number two didn't 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.320 That wasn't a good concept for you. It's not the 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.880 number two so much. It's that I didn't want to 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.920 work to realize their visions, you know, the movies that 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.200 they wanted to make. I had realized, or I had 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.360 come into my own creative voice and vision, and I 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.840 realized that if I was gonna, you know, do anything, 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.800 it was time for me to to explore that. And plus, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.840 there weren't any black women making movies. So I just 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.080 kind of fell into it. And what really happened is 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.120 I just decided again I kind of banked on Princess 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.840 Diaries being something, and so I was, you know, out 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.320 of work for a few months, and I just said, 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.000 you know, I'm gonna wait until the movie comes out, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.280 because if it is a success, it put it would 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.240 put me in that next league up. Thankfully it was, 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.920 and I ended up, like the second week it was out, 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.840 the head of the student at the time, you know, 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.280 Jacobson at Disney called me and gave me my own deal, 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.520 which we didn't realize at the time, but maybe the 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.840 first black woman producer to have a deal at a 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:15.320 major studio, which is Bathless. Now, were there any tough 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.280 moments sort of along that path, you know, that made 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.440 you sweat or wonder whether it was gonna happen at all, 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.000 or you're just confident that it was just gonna all 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.320 work out. Strictly doing that that the period a few 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.960 months before the movie came out, and when you know, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.920 our company ceased to be I remember, I would sit 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.640 out on my patio here in Los Angeles at night, 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.520 would not in my stomach and I would just say 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.280 to myself, Okay, I just don't believe that I have 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.760 come this far to fail. I mean, really, it was 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.640 an act of faith at that point. Not to just 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.320 take a job, but to to to kind of, you know, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.240 bet on myself that something would happen with the movie 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.720 and for me. Where do you think that strength came from? 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.480 What made Juice so strong when you face those those 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:07.520 obstacles at the time, You know, it boils down to faith, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:13.360 faith in yourself and just kind of you know, faith 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.760 in the universe. Like I said, I just kept saying, 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.560 I can't believe that the universe would bring me this far. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.080 And I know I knew that I had put in 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.720 the time and the energy and the hard work and 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.679 the passion. You know that I just didn't think that 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.040 all of that would be for not that I would 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:36.640 be rewarded for for everything, but you know it was 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:41.160 I bet on myself, which is I encourage people to 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.800 do because at the end of the day, you know, 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.360 you have to. Yeah, that's great advice for particularly for 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.080 the women entrepreneurs who are listening to us today, and 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.200 it's clearly paid off. You know, among your work, you've 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.480 produced some some of the most beloved franchises. You know, 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.720 we mentioned the Princess stories. You know, the Sister had 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.520 the t on Pants, one of my favorites. The Cheetah girls. 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.760 How did you land such big films? I mean, did 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.920 you think that you could ever be so successful? When 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.800 I was in really starting things up, I didn't allow 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:20.840 myself to really focus on the inequities in the marketplace. 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.320 You know, the fact that as a black woman, you know, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.480 basically I started out having to prove to the industry 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.040 that somebody who looked like me was capable of producing 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.920 mainstream movies, where my white male counterparts we're just like, okay, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.240 I'm here, like, you know, how am I gonna How 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.120 am I gonna make a lot of money? But I 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.600 just kept my eyes were on the prize, and I 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.840 think it did help that this was a second career 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.760 for me. So I had the knowledge that, you know, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:57.479 look if push came the shop and I failed fabulously, 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.560 you know, and and was flat on my face, that 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.600 I could always you know, hang a shingle out as 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.119 a lawyer and you know, put a roof over my head. 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.000 But you know we were going to let you do that. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:14.760 So listen, how many times did I sleep on your 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:19.199 u in that that bedroom? I know, I know, I know, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:23.440 But when I looked around the industry, you know, at 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.960 that time, Basically, if you were a black producer, you 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:35.480 were only making black product, whereas every you know, white producers, male, female, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.360 Hispanic producers were making black product as well. So I 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.560 went to the agencies. At the time, I was with 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.400 the William Morris agency, but I went to all of 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.800 them and I said, look, you need to send me 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.679 the stuff that you send the white producers. Don't just 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.199 send me the stuff that you think I should be doing. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:12:00.480 Let me make that decision. I had produced Rogerson, Hammer, Stunts, Darrella, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.920 and the unpublished manuscript for The Princess Diaries came to 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.840 William Morris. It had been turned down by I don't 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:14.800 know fifteen publishers, but the agent called me. He said, well, 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.000 you just did Cinderella. I thought that this might be 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.880 up your alley. And I read the book that night 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.720 and I was like, oh, I get this, and you know, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.960 sold it to Disney. And then that, you know, success 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.320 helps you get more success in the sense that you know, 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.160 all of a sudden, I was on the map as 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.200 an established producer. Actually, the sister of the Traveling Parents 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.600 was one of the few things like Kevin McCormick, who 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.920 was a senior executive at Warner Brothers actually called me 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.280 after Princess Diaries and the book had been out and 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.400 was a success, and he said, you know, again, I 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.240 thought this might be something you'd be interested in. Read it, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.040 immediately loved it. You know, knew it had a huge 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.200 fan base, and you know, made those movies. We know 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.960 that those great ideas always need funding to really become 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.600 a reality. And you know, personally, I've always been appalled 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.640 by the lack of access to capital for women own businesses, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.280 with such a small percentage lists and five percent of 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.600 funds for your capital going to women o businesses, and 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.679 a small percentage of bank loans. You know, yet you know, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.040 women control like a large percentage of purchasing power. I'm 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.040 sure that the film industry is not immune from this either. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.240 So how did you tackle sort of this mismatch with 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.680 a great idea? But do you have problems getting funding? 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.960 You know, of the stuff I've done has been financed 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:47.079 by the major movie studios or television slash cable networks. 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.480 I just I've been you know, I'm saying based in 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.280 Disney for fifteen years. You know, I've just been in 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.520 that pool. But that being said, there's a long stretch 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.520 in there. Know, it probably ended maybe five years ago, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.280 where the studios and the network nobody was interested in 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.480 stories about people of color, nobody were interested in stories 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.400 about women. And while I have done other things, that 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.120 is clearly my bread and butter, my my passion is 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:22.320 you know, telling those stories and shattering stereotypes and and 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:27.520 projecting you know, complex interesting images for both groups. And 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.640 I found myself kind of throwing stuff up against the wall, 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:34.000 you know, because the people weren't interested in what I 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.160 was really interested in. I couldn't get the stuff I 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.720 wanted to do. Finance and the other stuff just wasn't 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.880 meaning anything to me. It was a little tough period, 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.640 but the journey was a good journey. You know, Listen, 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:50.880 I've learned. Someday, I said, I'm going to write a 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.280 book about what I've learned about life from from Hollywood, 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:00.200 because you know, I've learned about faith. I've learned, know, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.760 We've been reinforced that you've got to you know, believe 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.000 in yourself, as I said earlier, and it's also particularly 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.800 It's always been true, but particularly in these times where 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.840 the world and culture and politics is changing so rapidly, 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.680 you have to stay nimble and you have to stay open. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.320 But you know, for a producer in Hollywood to have 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.720 a home for fifteen years at a major studio, and 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.640 I'm very grateful, but I realized that I had gotten stale. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.480 That I you know, I was doing business in the 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.040 same way that I've been doing it for fifteen years 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.160 at the same company, in the same way, and everything 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.440 had changed. I had changed the business and changed, the 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.720 world had changed, the company has changed. You know, I 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.440 think your tendency when you've had some success, it's just 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.160 to drill down on how you've been doing things, because 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.440 you figure you just it's just another wall, when in fact, 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:01.440 this was a sea change, and so thankful I took 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:06.040 a step back. I diminished my overhead for for nine 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.280 months and just kind of opened myself back up to 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.600 new ideas and new ways of thinking about product and 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:19.920 the business. And it really it was like the perfect 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:27.160 thing because it just positioned me to reboot, relaunch myself 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:31.440 and my business. So, you know, given today's conditions and 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.120 you're you're describing that you you made a pivot at 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.640 that time, and looking at the the world today, a 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.400 lot of companies have had to pivot their business models 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.720 and their operations due to the pandemic um has has 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.200 your business been reshaped? Have you had to pivot again 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:54.000 during this time? No, thank you. I am so grateful. 0:16:54.560 --> 0:17:00.400 I that pivot put me in position to being really 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.520 good through this pandemic. And I said this at the outset, 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.840 it's you know, there there were businesses that had old 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.639 business models at the start of this that we're just 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:18.720 hanging on. And so the pressure from the shutdown and 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.680 and everything you know that we're going through took them 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.600 out right. Because what I've learned is you have to change. 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.479 You have to stay abreast of what's going on and 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.800 stay you know, relevant. It's like you have to keep 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.679 your business model current because you never know what's gonna happen. 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.560 And I think unfortunately, we've seen a lot of businesses 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.760 that that may not come back and sort of you know, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.639 in that vein for for that entrepreneur who missed it 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.880 the first go around and needs to pivot to survive 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.520 going forward. Is there one piece of advice that was 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.600 critical to your success that you could tell our listeners 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.119 about to day. I know you mentioned being nimble and 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:08.280 being current, Nimble, current and open, and as I said, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:12.400 I think open is really important in the sense that 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.919 it's human nature to keep doing things, particularly again if 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.960 you if you've had some success, to continue to do 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.480 things in the same way, because there's a comfort level 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.119 that obviously sets in. But you have to be willing 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.440 to look at things from other points of view and 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:39.159 other perspectives and question your assumptions periodically so that because 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:44.639 things are changing so rapidly, the technology is changing so rapidly, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:49.840 our culture is changing so rapidly. I was listening last night. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.760 Obviously the state of Mississippi just got rid of the 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.080 Confederate flag, you know, as part of its flag, and 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.240 they were saying that in a poll a year ago, 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.920 over fifty of Mississippians did not want to change the flag. 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:10.199 Here we are a year later, and over fifty wanted 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.480 to change the flag. So so what, you know, it's 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.960 been a year. You gotta stay on top. Things are 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.040 changing all the time, and that's going to impact your 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.879 business and how people respond to you. I think about 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.280 the power of the movie you've done, and you know, 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.320 starting not to think about Harriet in this moment in time, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.760 and you know, I was sort of thinking to myself, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.199 you know, your story is always reshaped. Sort of the 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.440 images and some of the misperceptions that you know, many 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.040 of us are sort of grappling with. Right now, what 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:46.240 would Harriet do today? The thing about Harriet's life that 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.199 is so inspirational is putting it mildy, but also I 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.480 think so relevant for right now is that she was 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.479 born a slave and destined to be a slave her 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:03.840 entire life. But she said no, and she decided that 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.440 she was going to change the course of her life, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.359 her family's life, many other black people's lives, and in 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.159 doing all that helped changed the course of our nation. 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.080 Look at what has come out of the protests. You 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.840 know that people said enough, we're not taking this anymore. 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.280 You know, we all have the ability, we have a voice, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.439 and whether we use it individually in you know, in 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.359 our homes or in our churches, our schools, or whether 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.399 we're using it in the streets to peacefully peacefully protests, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.200 and we got to use it at the ballot box. 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.880 But I think you know, carry it stands for standing 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.560 up for your right, standing up for what you believe in, 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.560 standing up for you know, your freedoms. They mentioned at 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.440 the very beginning of our interview that you know, we've 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.320 known each other for many, many, many years, and and 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.879 how many amazing friends we have in common. Can you 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.159 tell me how it's important? Have you know those networks 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.320 spent to you? And what and what advice would you 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:08.879 give like the young person as to how do you 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:16.080 how would someone build a network? My female friendships like you, 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:20.639 my dear female friends, have been invaluable to me. I 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.240 went to Mount Holio and Wellesley me. I'm a I'm 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.399 a women's college graduate. I believe in the power of 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.959 women and and friendships and our collective power. Particularly you know, 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:37.119 when I came to Hollywood and I was alone in 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:42.200 many ways, you know, the path, the road not traveled 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:47.360 I was taking, and particularly at that time because there 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:52.080 were so few opportunities for black people and for women 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.520 in general, there was that kind of cutthroat mentality. So 0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:59.440 you're all, you know, I was having to look over 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:03.960 your show there, and so I just having this amazing 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.760 network of friends in like you and New York and 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:13.480 d C Chicago really kept me, you know, just connected 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.800 and grounded. And we you know, Sharon, we would go 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.240 out to dinner with you know, a little group of us. 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.080 I remember, you know, we go to dinner and we 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:26.040 talked about what we were each going through in our 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.679 own realms and we would recognize the you know the 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:34.080 similarities of the challenges and just you know, show each 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.240 other up emotionally and nothing else much less you know, 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:42.000 with information and you know, helping each other practically where 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:46.240 we could, But the emotional support was key. Yeah, it's 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.479 been keeping having you in my life and you've been 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.240 a huge supporter and you know, I love you, Jearlie 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.200 in any event, but it just reminded me. I was 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.280 on a call with young Black women partners at the 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:00.320 majority firms and young Black women general accounts so in 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.640 and some of them talked about, particularly now, the sort 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:08.320 of the isolation still being the only one and grappling 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.280 with how you even have conversations, you know, and this 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.000 with the civil unrest, and I encourage them to reach 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.960 out to each other and to make sure we continue 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.080 to use our network to support each other. I mean, 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:23.919 it's just so important to be able to pick up 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.520 the phone and ask that girlfriend, like, you know, this 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.800 happened to me? Am I crazy? Or did this happen 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:35.359 to you too? Absolutely, they're common things that we go 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.239 through and so just being able to first of all, 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.959 be able to talk about it and not hold it inside, 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:46.240 you know, just starts the process of resolving it or 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:48.600 figuring out how you're going to handle it. But then 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:53.920 also just to be able to share experiences is critical. 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.119 It is critical. So in that vein that was so 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:01.960 with the young I'm not entrepreneurs listening to us right now, 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.560 who is thinking about, you know, writing her own script 0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:08.480 and her own future and looking for those tools and 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:12.920 resources that they made need to achieve their dreams. Now, 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.440 what would be that one big piece of advice that 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.639 you would give that person? I think for one of 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.679 it is figure out what you really want to do, 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:27.480 you know, what really means something to you, Because whatever 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.119 you choose to do, you're gonna have to work really 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.480 hard at it. You know, we all know, we all 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.399 listen to our mothers and our our our grandparents, and 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:39.359 we know that it's still if you're black, you know, 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.320 and as women, you gotta work twice as hard in 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.560 order to get you know, half half. That's just that's 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:51.280 still the reality. So if you're going to put that 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:57.080 kind of time, effort, dedication, passion, commitment into something, make 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:00.080 sure it's something that is meaningful to you, that you 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.880