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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we're going on tour and you can come

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Speaker 1: out and see us in Orlando on August twelfth, Nashville

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Speaker 1: on September sixth, and we're gonna wrap it all up

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Speaker 1: on September ninth in our hometown of Atlanta, GA.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And these are the last shows of the year.

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Speaker 2: This has been a really good show this year. We're

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Speaker 2: super excited about it, and this is going to be

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Speaker 2: your only chance to be in the theater with us,

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Speaker 2: and you know, like fifteen sixteen hundred of your closest pals.

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Speaker 1: So go to stuff youshould know dot com and check

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Speaker 1: out our tour page for links and information, and you

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Speaker 1: can also go to link tree slash sysk for the

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Speaker 1: same stuff. We'll see you guys this August and September.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck

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Speaker 1: and Jerry's here. You know, the usual gang of idiots,

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Speaker 1: and this is Stuff you Should Know. Very nuts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kind of had to say something like thin stunt

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 2: Right off the bat?

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Speaker 1: Oh, sure, right off the bat, like a bunt that

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Speaker 1: hits you yourself in the foot.

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Speaker 2: So you were, of course referencing Mad magazine, and that

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Speaker 2: was how they referred to themselves to their staff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, basically forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the great all time satirical rags, one

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Speaker 2: of the earliest. It's funny. Right before you got on,

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Speaker 2: Jerry said something about did the Cracked website come after

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Speaker 2: the Mad magazine? And I said, well, I think she

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Speaker 2: conflated them. And I was like no, I was like,

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Speaker 2: Cracked was Cracked and Mad was Mad, right, And I

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Speaker 2: very quickly looked up because I was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think Cracked was kind of like a Mad ripoff,

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Speaker 2: but they were pretty close together. Mad started in fifty

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Speaker 2: two and Cracked started in fifty eight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but was very far from the only Mad imitator.

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Speaker 1: I won't say rip off, but imitator. What else there was?

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Speaker 1: Hugh Hefner had one called Trump. Oh yeah, there were

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Speaker 1: other ones called Humbug, both of which Mad originator Harvey

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Speaker 1: Kurtzman worked on. There was apparently it was like a

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Speaker 1: thing like Mad made such a splash early on, as

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Speaker 1: we'll see that it basically created a whole new genre,

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you and I were both fans as young'in's right.

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Speaker 2: I mean we've talked about this.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was going through. There's a site called

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Speaker 1: Doug Guildford's Mad Cover Site.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can spend a lot of time there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can. I believe he has like, like, I

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Speaker 1: think there's five hundred and fifty three total original issues

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Speaker 1: that they ever released, and I believe he has them all,

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Speaker 1: at least the cover scan and then some of them.

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Speaker 1: He's gone to the trouble of scanning the contents too,

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Speaker 1: so you can read Mad Magazine online.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I went through and looked at covers until I

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Speaker 1: started recognizing when like I own that, and then kept

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Speaker 1: going through and then they started to taper off and

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Speaker 1: I didn't recognize them anymore. In doing so, I was

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Speaker 1: able to go back and figure out that I was

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Speaker 1: an avid Mad magazine reader from September of nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: six through September of nineteen eighty eight, my entire tenth, eleventh,

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Speaker 1: and twelfth years of life.

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Speaker 2: I did the same thing. Awesome, because I was kind

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Speaker 2: of curious too. I was like, when did I even start?

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Speaker 2: And man, I was, of course I'm a little older

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Speaker 2: than you, but I was earlier aged as well, because

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Speaker 2: I was into it from like eighty to eighty five ish,

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Speaker 2: so I was like nine through fourteen and fifteen and

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Speaker 2: then a little bit after that. I'm sure, but I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you were like me. Mad was an

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Speaker 2: expensive magazine for a kid.

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Speaker 1: It was cheap and even said so on the cover.

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Speaker 2: It was more expensive than other magazines, and one reason

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Speaker 2: is because they did not until two thousand and one

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Speaker 2: have advertisements to also bring in money, so they made

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Speaker 2: their money off of newsstands and subscriptions. And I just remember,

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Speaker 2: you know, throwing down for a Mad cost a little dough,

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Speaker 2: So I didn't have a ton of them. Got some

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Speaker 2: hand me downs from Scott, of course, nice, but so

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Speaker 2: many of those covers and movie parodies, especially from the

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Speaker 2: great Mort Drucker, really just stuck with me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, same here, and he was far and away

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Speaker 1: the greatest of all the Mad illustrators, and all of

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Speaker 1: them were really great in their own way, but Mort

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Speaker 1: Drucker was. Yeah, if you're familiar with Mad, all of

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Speaker 1: the movie parodies, the TV parodies that were just that

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Speaker 1: looked dead on like the people. That was Mort Drucker.

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Speaker 1: And he was named at least in one of the

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Speaker 1: articles I read as possibly the greatest caricature artists of

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Speaker 1: all time, like in history. Yeah, and I would not really,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't go against that.

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Speaker 2: Now. He did almost exclusively movies though, because their TV

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Speaker 2: guy was Angels. Yeah, angela tourist did mostly TV and

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Speaker 2: Drunker did mostly movies.

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Speaker 1: But they, I mean, they had similar styles. It wasn't like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Night and Day, like comparing Don Martin and

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Speaker 1: you know, more Drucker or something like that. But and

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Speaker 1: no shade on Angelo Torres's work either. So but yes,

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Speaker 1: they were more expensive than comic books for sure, Like

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Speaker 1: even out of the gate the first Mad magazine cost

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Speaker 1: twenty five cents, which is like several hundred dollars today,

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Speaker 1: I presume. So, yeah, it was when you can get

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Speaker 1: a comic book for like ten cents at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And and you know, it cannot be overstated how

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Speaker 2: much Mad sort of laid the groundwork for modern satire. Uh.

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Speaker 2: And then as we'll see, all so musical satire and

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Speaker 2: things like the Onion and the National Lampoon, things like

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Speaker 2: that probably wouldn't well, they maybe would have eventually existed,

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Speaker 2: but they certainly had a nice paved road in front

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Speaker 2: of them thanks to Mad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of hard to imagine the

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Speaker 1: world without things like the Simpsons and The Daily Show

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Speaker 1: and all that. But I don't know. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: could argue that it would be at least a different world,

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Speaker 1: like you were saying, if not that they didn't exist

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Speaker 1: at all because of Mad magazine. It's crazy. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things that Mad magazine did is another thing

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Speaker 1: that it's really hard to imagine not existing in the world,

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Speaker 1: is teaching healthy skepticism to kids, adolescents basically. And I

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Speaker 1: guess Art Spiegelman he created mouse Right, I mean us,

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Speaker 1: the graphic novel. Okay, he had a great quote that

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Speaker 1: I think really kind of got it across. At the

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Speaker 1: point of Mad, especially early on through the mid seventies,

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Speaker 1: is that the entire adult world is lying to you,

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Speaker 1: and we are part of the adult world. Good luck

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Speaker 1: to you. And that was I mean, that's what they did,

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Speaker 1: and it was a I mean, I'm sure I learned

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Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism from Mad as well. Absolutely, you

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Speaker 1: just couldn't read it and not pick it up, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the toly. So shall we talk history.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk history, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: All right, well we got we have to talk about

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Speaker 2: EC Comics. It was short for Education Comics, founded in

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Speaker 2: forty four by a guy named Maxwell Gaines, who was

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Speaker 2: one of the progenitors of comic books period, and EC

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Speaker 2: Comics was ended up merging with Detective Comics. But I

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Speaker 2: hope I didn't get this wrong to form what we

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Speaker 2: knew later on as DCAY and from the Maxwell gain

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Speaker 2: side and from EC Comics we got titles like The

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Speaker 2: Flash and Hawkman, Green Lantern and Wonder Women were probably

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Speaker 2: the biggest ones. And I guess I should say this

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Speaker 2: was the original incarnation as all American publications, right, and

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Speaker 2: then later became EC.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But those characters he helped bring to reality. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he was a legend in the field, still is

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Speaker 1: in the field of comics. But he died early, I guess,

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Speaker 1: fairly youngish and at least suddenly I think I saw

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Speaker 1: a boat accident or something like that. And his son,

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Speaker 1: William Gaines Bill Gaines, took over the family business, and

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Speaker 1: he had slightly different tastes than his father. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: really interested in printing religious tracts or comics that featured

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Speaker 1: people who were hurting you know, camels and sheep and

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Speaker 1: talking about God. He wanted to basically go in the

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Speaker 1: exact opposite direction, so he changed the name of EC

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Speaker 1: from Education Comics Entertainment Comics, and he started publishing what

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Speaker 1: became some of the most notorious, gory, violent, gleefully sick

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Speaker 1: horror magazines around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was sort of a way to

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Speaker 2: stand out because comics were huge, huge business. I think

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Speaker 2: by the nineteen fifties there were about one point two

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Speaker 2: billion comics sold a year.

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Speaker 1: That's like the number of podcasts now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. In twenty five percent were crime and horror,

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Speaker 2: well kind of like podcasts actually, and so easy you know,

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Speaker 2: Tales from the crypt We have Easy to thank for that,

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Speaker 2: and just lots of that. You know. You could sort

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Speaker 2: of see the foundation of MAD being laid, even though

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Speaker 2: MAD didn't do horror sci fi per se. Of course,

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Speaker 2: they dabbled in that and satire, but they started to

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Speaker 2: tackle things with themes like you know, racism and police

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Speaker 2: corruption and bigotry and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's like the contours of teaching kids like hey,

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Speaker 1: these things exist. But it was in the form of

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Speaker 1: like horror comics or war comics or Cowboy comics or

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Speaker 1: something like that, right, yeah, yeah, And so this is

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Speaker 1: a time where I mean we're talking the early fifties, right,

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Speaker 1: this is like Pleasantville type America, and they're talking about

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Speaker 1: like drug addiction and stuff to ten and twelve year old.

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Speaker 1: So it was pretty groundbreaking what they were doing. And

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Speaker 1: they because of that, they drew the attention of the

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Speaker 1: moral panic that started to erupt over comic books that

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Speaker 1: apparently was brought on by a psychiatrist named Frederic or

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Speaker 1: Friedrich Wertham Vertum probably Fredrick Wortham, but he wrote a

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Speaker 1: book called Seduction of the Innocent and then he specifically

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Speaker 1: called out some of the ec comics and described, you know,

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Speaker 1: what was going on in them, and it was basically saying,

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Speaker 1: comic books are corrupting our youth. They're the reason that

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Speaker 1: juvenile delinquents exist. It's comic books. And the Senate and

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Speaker 1: Congress said, oh, we should, we should look into this. Then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, they formed a Senate subcommittee in

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Speaker 2: spring of nineteen fifty four, as they do as they do,

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Speaker 2: and that Wortham or Wam as you I think probably

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Speaker 2: correctly pronounced thanks. He kind of opened up by saying

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Speaker 2: this is one original quote. I hate to say it's senator,

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Speaker 2: but I think Hitler was a beginner. Compared to the

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Speaker 2: comic book industry, they get the children much younger, so

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Speaker 2: you can kind of see the hysteria going on of

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Speaker 2: what they call the comic book menace.

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Speaker 1: Plus completely ignoring the Hitler youth right exactly.

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Speaker 2: And one very famous exchange that if you look up

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Speaker 2: anything on this these subcommittee hearings came between Gaines's son, who,

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Speaker 2: like you said, took over for Pops, and a senator

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Speaker 2: named Estes Kefalver Keith Keith Walver hm not Cafalver, Keith Aalver.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Keith Aver. I can't remember if

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Speaker 1: this is the thing. Miss Keith fav hearings or if

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Speaker 1: he held some other stuff, but he he was. He

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Speaker 1: liked to hold hearings from what I understand.

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Speaker 2: Of course, he was a Democrat from Tennessee. And there

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Speaker 2: was one exchange between Gaines and Keith Aalber where he says,

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Speaker 2: where they're talking about, you know, one of the covers,

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Speaker 2: and he said, this seems to be a man with

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Speaker 2: a bloody axe holding a woman's head up which has

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Speaker 2: been severed. From her body. Do you think this is

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Speaker 2: in good taste? And this is after Gaines had already said,

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Speaker 2: you know, our limit is to publish within the bounds

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Speaker 2: of good taste. Uh huh. And Gaines said, yes, sir,

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Speaker 2: I do. For the cover of a horror comic, a

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Speaker 2: cover in bad taste, for example, might be defined as

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Speaker 2: holding the head a little higher so that the net

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Speaker 2: can be seen dripping blood from it, and moving the

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Speaker 2: body over a little further so that the neck of

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Speaker 2: the body could be seen to be bloody. And the

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Speaker 2: senator said, you have blood coming out of her mouth,

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Speaker 2: and gain says a little And Keithalver says, here is

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Speaker 2: blood on the acts. I think most adults are shocked

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Speaker 2: by that. So that was a very famous exchange where

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Speaker 2: Gaines he went on to basically make the point in

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Speaker 2: what may have been the first you know, mic drop.

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Speaker 2: I won't read the whole quote, but he basically is

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Speaker 2: talking about the fact of juvenile delinquency. He said, it's

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Speaker 2: a product of real environment in which the child lives,

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Speaker 2: and not the fiction he reads. There are many problems

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Speaker 2: that reach our children today. The problems are economic and social,

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Speaker 2: and they are complex, And he was right but it

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Speaker 2: didn't matter. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean, looking back seventy five years later, you're just

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Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, that's neat that that happened. But

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Speaker 1: if you kind of put yourself in this moment, Bill

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Speaker 1: Gaines was the only comic book publisher, as far as

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Speaker 1: I could tell, who is willing to step up to

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Speaker 1: the Senate and be like, no, this is all wrong.

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Speaker 1: This guy's a crackpot. We actually have real societal problems

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Speaker 1: that are causing juvenile delinquency, and you guys are coming

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Speaker 1: after comic books. He took on the Senate, or at

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Speaker 1: least the Senate Committee, and it was a They were

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Speaker 1: very public hearings, and he stepped up when no one

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Speaker 1: else would. And I read an account of the whole

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Speaker 1: thing on the Comics Association site and they said that

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Speaker 1: at first he was just killing it, but then he

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Speaker 1: started to kind of slow down, lose focus, and he

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Speaker 1: ended up getting pummeled by the senators, and some of

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Speaker 1: his less desirable quotes ended up on the front page

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Speaker 1: of the New York Times. They equated it to him

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Speaker 1: taking Benza Dream too early so that he peaked and

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Speaker 1: started to get tired during the hearings. Because the hearings

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Speaker 1: were postponed, but regardless he got he was defeated. And

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Speaker 1: some people actually say, if he hadn't drummed up all

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Speaker 1: that attention and drew the ire of the Senate, who

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Speaker 1: knows what would have happened. But the upshot was that

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Speaker 1: the comic book publishers got together and said, who whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: You guys don't have to censor us. We don't need

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Speaker 1: government sensors. We can do this ourselves. We're going to

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Speaker 1: create the Comic Magazine Association of America, and within that,

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Speaker 1: we're going to create a committee, a review board called

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Speaker 1: the Comic Code Authority, and every single comic book that

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Speaker 1: is published in this country will be reviewed and either

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Speaker 1: given a stamp of approval or rejected by the Comics

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Speaker 1: Code Authority. And you can rely on us. Just stay

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Speaker 1: out of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was this is about three months in

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Speaker 2: change after the end of the hearings, so they were

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Speaker 2: clearly kind of working on this. You know, I doubt

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Speaker 2: if they just threw that together last second, like they

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Speaker 2: saw the writing on the wall and got together. And

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Speaker 2: you know, this was good in a way because it

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Speaker 2: kept the Senate out of their business. But what it

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Speaker 2: also did was kind of self censor because you couldn't

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden get a comic out there unless

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Speaker 2: it had this stamp of approval from the Code Authority,

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Speaker 2: and if it had the word weird or crime or

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Speaker 2: terror or horror just in the title, it was rejected

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Speaker 2: right off the bat.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so the I mean, the choice was clear. It

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Speaker 1: was either you know, fold your operation or start submitting

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Speaker 1: to these standards that the Comic Code Authority is laying

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Speaker 1: down now. And Bill Gaines said, We're okay, that's it.

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Speaker 1: We're just not going to publish those comic books anymore.

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Speaker 1: And he stopped publishing almost every single comic book he

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Speaker 1: had except for one. There was one comic book that

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Speaker 1: they had released previously, and it was a humor comic

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Speaker 1: and it was called Tales Calculated to Drive You Mad.

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Speaker 1: And that was the origin of Mad Magazine. It was

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Speaker 1: a humor comic book. That was the one thing that

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Speaker 1: remained after Bill Gains burned down his entire comic book

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Speaker 1: publishing empire. Rather than submit to censorship, you forgot the

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Speaker 1: colon I was leaving that for you.

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Speaker 2: Calculated to drive you mad. And by the way, mad

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Speaker 2: is always in all caps colon humor in a jugular vein.

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Speaker 1: Good. It is good. So it's not an overstatement to

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Speaker 1: say that Bill Gaines was a bit of a hero

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Speaker 1: for being willing to stand up to, you know, a

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Speaker 1: moral panic and put himself out there is potentially the

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Speaker 1: face of, you know, the evil that everybody was worried about,

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Speaker 1: and then just saying like, Okay, I lost, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to just you know, if you beat you

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Speaker 1: beat me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to join you.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go figure out another way to do it.

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Speaker 1: So he just kept going in a different direction.

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Speaker 2: All right. I think that's a very robust setup for us.

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Speaker 2: So we're gonna collect our thoughts and we'll be right

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Speaker 2: back jogging job. I know we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: things we love with Mad. But two movie parodies that

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Speaker 2: really stood out were movies that I didn't even see

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Speaker 2: at the time, actually three of them. And that was

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Speaker 2: kind of the fun thing about Mad is I wasn't

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Speaker 2: allowed to see some of this stuff. Oh okay, but

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Speaker 2: I could read the parody, so I remember crime More

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Speaker 2: versus crime More instead of Kramer versus Kramer was a

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Speaker 2: big one. Being not all there for being there and

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Speaker 2: the one for the Shining, and I can't remember it

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Speaker 2: wasn't the Shinning that was the simbsence. I can't remember

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Speaker 2: what it was called. But I remember reading the Shining

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Speaker 2: parody too, like long before I could see that.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I want to read that one. I'll bet

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Speaker 1: it was just legendary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember any particular ones, but I mean I

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Speaker 1: know that there were ones on like Alf and Rambo

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Speaker 1: and see here.

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Speaker 2: Were just after me. Yeah, combined, we have a really

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Speaker 2: good swatch.

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Speaker 1: But they would also do like like adult stuff. This

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Speaker 1: wasn't like they weren't like what's the cool movie with

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Speaker 1: teens right now? Like they did a cover one on

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Speaker 1: La law Well, Cramer versus Creamy, Kramer versus Creamer. It's

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Speaker 1: a great example too. But that's funny. That's like people

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Speaker 1: getting their news from the Daily Show. Today. You're getting

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Speaker 1: to watch movies that you weren't allowed to see through

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Speaker 1: Mad magazine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and we'll kind of see why here in

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Speaker 2: a minute. That was a very nice setup. Actually think

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Speaker 2: so too.

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Speaker 1: My thoughts still aren't collected, though, so we might be

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Speaker 1: in trouble.

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Speaker 2: All right, So tales calculated to Drive You Mad is

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Speaker 2: the only title that Bill Gaines stuck with. He had

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Speaker 2: a cartoonist named from EC, named Harvey Kurtzman, who was

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Speaker 2: an army vet in World War Two and he did

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Speaker 2: military comics for EC, but kind of got tired of

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Speaker 2: this and was like, you know, I'm a funny guy,

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Speaker 2: I got a sense of humor. I'd rather work on

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Speaker 2: humor things because I'm a big fan of humor magazines.

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Speaker 2: And he said, why don't we spoof other comics, Like

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Speaker 2: do a comic that satirizes and spoofs comics, And so

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Speaker 2: they started doing that. They started spoofing horror comics, sci

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Speaker 2: fi comics. Bill Gains was beside himself. He thought it

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Speaker 2: was brilliant and mad sort of as we knew it

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Speaker 2: was really born when Kurtzman had that idea.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of the reasons it was so brilliant

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Speaker 1: was because they were using the same artists and writers

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Speaker 1: who were creating those comics for the spoof. So they

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Speaker 1: were really like dead on and they looked like they

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Speaker 1: were supposed to look, and like they had this like

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Speaker 1: the in joke humor that of anybody who was a

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Speaker 1: fan of those comics. So it was a pretty cool

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Speaker 1: idea to start, and it was right up Kurtzman's alley

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Speaker 1: for sure, because he'd kind of got on board with

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Speaker 1: some of the other comics like war comics and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. But it wasn't It was not a hit

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Speaker 1: out of the gate at all. It was apparently I

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Speaker 1: think issue number four in nineteen fifty three, that was

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Speaker 1: the one that really kind of caught everyone's attention because

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Speaker 1: they lampooned Superman with the pretty obvious title super Duperman.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's really involved and funny, and it's still today.

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Speaker 1: I was reading it this morning, I was like, this

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Speaker 1: is pretty funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree that very first panel has a

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Speaker 2: super Duperman punching an old person on crutches. It was

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Speaker 2: very dark character. Clark Bent was the the you know,

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Speaker 2: the alter ego and the reason it's noteworthy because they

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Speaker 2: had Dave Ruce helped us with this. He pointed out

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Speaker 2: they had already done these spoofs like Flesh Garden and

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Speaker 2: dragged Net instead of Dragnet for the TV side, but

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Speaker 2: they got sued, well not sued, but they got a

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Speaker 2: cease and desist from DC Comics and sort of strysand

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Speaker 2: effect before strysand was knew that there was going to

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Speaker 2: be an effect named for her, right, it got attention

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, kids were reading these comic parodis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a good one in June nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: four on Starchy, which was Archie, And I mean it

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Speaker 1: was again really like well drawn, really interesting if you

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Speaker 1: took a like a Archie and ran it through like

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Speaker 1: what would happen in the real world, but it's still

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Speaker 1: a parody. That's what they came up with. And like,

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Speaker 1: so comic books were incredibly popular at the time, Like

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Speaker 1: you were saying, they're billions being printed, right, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: this magazine or this comic book was spoofing comic books.

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Speaker 1: So they just went in and just caught on like wildfire.

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Speaker 1: So this was the one that Bill Gaines had left

401
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Speaker 1: after he stopped publishing the horror comics and the Cowboy

402
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Speaker 1: comics and the war comics and the sci fi comics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you sort of hinted that, you know,

404
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: Kramer versus Cramer and La Law these were sort of

405
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Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily stuff for kids, And that happened when

406
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Speaker 2: they made this, which from a comic book perioding and

407
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Speaker 2: satirizing other comic books to a magazine satirizing other magazines.

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Speaker 2: A couple of stories why this happened. One was that

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Speaker 2: Gaines was like, hey, listen, we're not going to be

410
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Speaker 2: under the Comic Code Authority if we turn ourselves into

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Speaker 2: a magazine. But apparently one of the real reasons that

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Speaker 2: wasn't as public was Harvey Kirchman wanted to do this.

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Speaker 2: He was sort of bored with a comic book thing,

414
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Speaker 2: wanted to get into magazines, and so to keep Kertzman around,

415
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Speaker 2: who was just a key early COG, switched to a

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Speaker 2: larger format, to a glossy magazine, and all of a

417
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Speaker 2: sudden they were spoofing magazines. And Kurtzman specifically even said

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Speaker 2: for the past two years now, Matt has been dulling

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Speaker 2: the senses of the country's youth. Now we get to

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Speaker 2: work on the adults, right, even though I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure there were some adults reading it, but every kid

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Speaker 2: I knew read it.

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Speaker 1: But it did definitely like update their readership into a

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Speaker 1: slightly higher age category from you know, I think teenagers

425
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 1: read comic books back then, but this was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you could find teenagers and now maybe college kids reading

427
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: it as well because it was just geared slightly differently

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Speaker 1: just by default, because it was parodying other magazines. Right,

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Speaker 1: So Harvey Kurtzman has like fans still today who are like,

430
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Speaker 1: if Kurtzman had never left, who knows how great Mad

431
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Speaker 1: magazine would have been, because he was a perfectionist genius,

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Speaker 1: which was his undoing, Like apparently he would miss publication

433
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: dates because he was just tinkering with stuff endlessly. Everything

434
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: needed to be tinkered with, and apparently he was really

435
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: good at it. I read an article or an interview

436
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: with Al Jaffey, who is the longest running cartoonists at MAD,

437
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: and he was saying, like Kurtzman was the best editor

438
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: he'd ever worked with, but everything needed editing, everything needed tinkering,

439
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: which ma everything delayed and more expensive. And the reason

440
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: Kurtzman left was not because Gaines said, hey, you need

441
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: to to rain all this in or fired him or anything,

442
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: but Gains very wisely retained editorial control. So Kritsman had

443
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: to go ask Gains for everything, and Chrismin did not

444
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: like that. Geniuses typically don't like that kind of thing,

445
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: and so he struck out on his own after just

446
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: a couple of years.

447
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know this is you know, when they

448
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: made that switch to the magazine, This is when they

449
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: all of a sudden could do like TV shows and movies.

450
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: They got a whole lot more political and then as

451
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: we'll see song periods and stuff like that. Another big,

452
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: sort of long standing tradition with Mad was skewing marketing

453
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: and pr and advertising, and they because they didn't have ads.

454
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: And that was one of the things I loved about Mad,

455
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: even though it cost a little more, is that every

456
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 2: page was you know, some things were funnier than others, obviously,

457
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: but every page each had funny content on it. The

458
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: spoof ads, to me, were great. Everything they did was

459
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 2: funny because they didn't have to just sort of bow

460
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: to the advertiser. And it really would have been I

461
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: don't never saw any post two thousand and one editions.

462
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: It would be really weird for me to see a

463
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: Mad magazine with a legitimate advertisement in it. I wouldn't know.

464
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: I would look for the jokes still, somebody.

465
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little mind warping when you were used

466
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: to it for decades, totally, you know not And yeah,

467
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: that was a big part of it too. It's like,

468
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: I mean, that's probably the most ubiquitous way people are

469
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: lied to on a daily basis is through advertising. So

470
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: it was essential that they lampoon ads too, just to

471
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: They couldn't just leave those alone. It would have been

472
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: distinctly impure, and neither Harvey Kurtzman nor Bill gains would

473
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: have stood for that for sure.

474
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: All Right, So Kurtzman and Leaves in nineteen fifty six,

475
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: this is what you were talking about with Hugh Heffner.

476
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: He had his satirical humor magazine called Trump Believe it

477
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: or Not, four issues. Then he went on to work

478
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: for the other one you mentioned, Humbug, which was only

479
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: about eleven issues. But he, you know, like you said,

480
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 2: he still has people that sort of bowed him today

481
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: because he laid the groundwork and the foundation for sort

482
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: of satire as we know it today.

483
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. He also went on to create a longstanding Playboy

484
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: cartoon from the sixties to the seventies called Little Annie Fanny,

485
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: and it was just a dirty cartoon that apparently, yeah,

486
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: really fulfilled him as an artist. But yeah, he was

487
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: just a legend, just as much as like Bill Gaines

488
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: was maybe more in some circles for sure, but after Kurtzman,

489
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: and Kurtzman is very much credited with establishing the tone,

490
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: the voice, the idea behind MAD that was carried on

491
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: essentially until twenty eighteen, maybe as we'll see, but and

492
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: in turn also creating laying the foundation for American sattire

493
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: to come. Right after that, a guy named Al Feldstein

494
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: came on board, and I get the impression a little

495
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: more of a workhorse and a little less of a

496
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: endlessly tinkering perfectionist. And he brought on some of the

497
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: names that you are familiar with, like Mort Drucker and

498
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: Al Jaffy and Don Martin and just these longtime MAD contributors.

499
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: They came on under Al Feldstein's overseeing ship. You like that,

500
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: Huh yeah?

501
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: Sure. In fact, Senate committees should not be committees on

502
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: oversight anymore. They should be on overseeing ship.

503
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: I agree, it's got a little more flair to it.

504
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: So Feldstein, one of the key things, besides, like you said,

505
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: hiring you some legendary staff, was bringing on a legendary mascot,

506
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: and that is Alfredy Newman. He named Alfredy Newman or

507
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: attached that name. Apparently that was a kind of a pseudonym.

508
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: They used a lot of kind of goofy, funny pseudonyms

509
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: in the office for different things. ALFREDY Newman was one

510
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: of them. But if you don't know anything about Mad

511
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: magazine and you've never picked up an issue, you still

512
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: probably can look at the little little Opie Taylor, redheaded,

513
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: gap tooth, big eared. Well, I was about to say kid,

514
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: but it was always hard to determine Alfredy Newman's age

515
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: in a way, and that was part of the fun,

516
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: I guess. But that was the mascot. They wanted a mascot,

517
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: they got one, along with the the I don't know

518
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: what you would call it a slogan, yeah, catchphrase, which

519
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: is what me worry? What comma me worry?

520
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny. I always read it as what me worry?

521
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Wow, Well you're we got two different brains, huh.

522
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: I guess, so, I mean still the same thing.

523
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: Really, I guess.

524
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: So he was the first one to bring that image.

525
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: I believe the first cover was issue number twenty five,

526
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: but he had been sort of used in the magazine

527
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: previous to that, and in the mid seventies there was

528
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: an interview where he said, you know, I got this

529
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: thing from this postcard in the early nineteen fifties that

530
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: had the caption me Worry, I like that me y,

531
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. And in nineteen sixty five this and of

532
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: course this is you know, ten years before he admitted this.

533
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: But in nineteen sixty five Man was actually sued by

534
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: the widow of a cartoonist named Harry Spencer, who said, Hey,

535
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: this postcard that you're going to talk about in ten

536
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 2: years was stolen from my husband's work and he's had

537
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: this copyright since nineteen fourteen. It's the name of the character,

538
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: is the original Optimist or the me worry guy and

539
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: mad and fighting the lawsuit said all right, listen, we

540
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: know this image has been used before besides us, so

541
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: readers find uses of Alfredy Newman out there. And they

542
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: came back with a bunch dating back to the nineteenth century.

543
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, they traced it all the way back. There was

544
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: a couple of historians that are mentioned in a Paris

545
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: Review article. It's really interesting. It chronicles the evolution of

546
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: Alfredy Newman. But they traced it back to an eighteen

547
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: ninety four play called The New Boy. And they think

548
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: that it's probable that the character that look that face

549
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: is a mashup of the two actors that played the

550
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: lead in The.

551
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: New Boy, Ron Howard.

552
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ron Howard and Ron Howard sor ye. And this

553
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: play like took America by storm. It was a big

554
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: deal in the late nineteenth century. These actors were very

555
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: much celebrated, and this character entered the pop culture and stayed.

556
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: But over time people forgot where he came from originally

557
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: until I mean, we're talking like the twenty ten's before

558
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: somebody said it goes as far back as this for sure.

559
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Dave was kind of enough to include a

560
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: bunch of cool uses. There was an auto parts store

561
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: that used it, a soda Happy Jack soda in the

562
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, a pain reliever in nineteen oh eight, all

563
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: kinds of uses, and the judge basically was like, hey, listen,

564
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: this is in the public domain. Everyone is using this.

565
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but everyone is using this goofy

566
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: guy's face. And the Mad magazine or I'm sorry, the

567
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: original affording human painting was by Norman Mingo, and for

568
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: Mad they had some pretty strict rules of usage, which

569
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: was you had to always have a forward, either a

570
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: forward face face like not from an angle or from

571
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: profile or anything like that, or just fully the back

572
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: of his head that had been done, and any other

573
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: usage of the face that was any different had to

574
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: go through what I sort of think was probably a

575
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: pretty strict like that was probably a pretty serious meeting

576
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: at Mad magazine. If they wanted to change that in

577
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: any way.

578
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'd be like, convince us, why right, exactly. But

579
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: that's why that that Alfredy Newman is just so recognizable

580
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: even when he's Yeah, I remember he was Lindy England.

581
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: Wasn't that the private Abu Grabe who had the picture

582
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: of her taken like pointing, like with with gun fingers

583
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: at a like a naked, hooded, tortured prisoner.

584
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: Remember they did Alfredy Newman on the cover as her. Yeah,

586
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: and you knew exactly who he was spoofing, but you

587
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: also could totally see that it was Alfredy Newman. All

588
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: of it is because that Norman Mingo one just hit

589
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: it so perfectly out of the game that there was

590
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: just no reason to alter it at all.

591
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know, I never really thought about

592
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: it's so ubiquitous and so just sort of burned in

593
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: my brain. I was a kid, and it never occurred

594
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: to me just what brilliant branding that was to not

595
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: only just have this mascot and slogan, but to not

596
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 2: change it and have it appear in much the same

597
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: way every single time that you saw it, and you know,

598
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: as a kid you were being I remember when I

599
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: was first thinking about tattoos, I thought about getting Alfredy Newman.

600
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: I would like it more than what I ended up getting,

601
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: so I probably should have. But it was such a

602
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: sort of iconic and still is such an iconic brand mark.

603
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Same with the masthead too, the logo, the shape

604
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: of the letters spelling out MAD all caps, that kind

605
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: of thing just as much as him. The two went

606
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: together just so perfectly well for sure. Yeah, But because

607
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: they established that Harry's Spencer did not have any sort

608
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: of copyright over Alfredy Newman or over that kid, that image,

609
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: you could do and use Alfredy Newman yourself if you

610
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: wanted to be a big jerk, and Mad couldn't do

611
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: anything about it because they don't own the copyright to

612
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: the image. It's in the he's in the public domain.

613
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: But Alfredy Newman himself, any usage that has ever been

614
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: created for mad if you if you use that, they

615
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: could sue your pants off. It's just if you went

616
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: out and created a new ALFREDY Newman type named it

617
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: something different, then technically they couldn't do anything, but the

618
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: whole world would be mad at you. I think unless

619
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: it was really great.

620
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: I know a certain jerk in Kansas that's a pretty

621
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: great at photoshop.

622
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: And then one last thing about mister A. E. Newman.

623
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: That name was one of the hilarious, like made up

624
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: names that they would use to like sign fake letters

625
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: to the editor and that kind of stuff. That's where

626
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: they were like, I think this name goes with this

627
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: guy very.

628
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: Well, totally one of the mini pseudonyms. I was just kidding,

629
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: by the way about the jerk part. He knows who

630
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: he is, sure, and he'll laugh at this, you hope.

631
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: All right?

632
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: Should we take a break, I guess all right, we're

633
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: gonna come back and talk, probably too briefly about some

634
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: of these legendary staffers that they had for you know,

635
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 2: fifty years or so.

636
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna staff it up.

637
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: Things and jogging job.

638
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 1: Okay, Chuck. So I mentioned ourselves as the usual gang

639
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: of videots. It's what everybody at Mad called themselves and

640
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: called the whole crew, and everybody was very happy to

641
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: be called that they were. Everybody had a really good

642
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: sense of humors another way to put it, most of them,

643
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: as we'll see. But I mentioned al Jaffe earlier and

644
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 1: he apparently holds the Guinness record for the longest career

645
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: as a comic artist. He started drawing for Mad in

646
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five. Yeah, and when did he retire.

647
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: He retired in twenty twenty and very sadly, I mean

648
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,959
Speaker 2: say sadly because he passed away. But he passed away

649
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: at one hundred and two on April tenth of this year,

650
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: on twenty twenty three. So had a I mean just

651
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: a legend, what a life. Ended up going away with

652
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 2: Kurtzman when he did Trump and Humbug, but came back

653
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: to Mad magazine and was most well known for doing

654
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: the fold, in which if you if you know Mad,

655
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: you know the if you don't. It was the very

656
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: last interior page of the magazine, like the inside of

657
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: the back cover, basically where you would it was a

658
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: visual trick where you would fold you know, it would

659
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 2: be a picture and it would have text at the bottom,

660
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: and then when you folded it over in a certain way,

661
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: it would form a new picture, and not only that,

662
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: but all new texts, Like I can't imagine laying these

663
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: out was easy considering the text, like the picture is

664
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: one thing, but to lay it out and have it

665
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: say something different is a whole other thing.

666
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: And it also sents some like significant stuff too, like

667
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: it was often about like taxes or the government doing

668
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: something shady or something like that.

669
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, the two would always be they would always sort

670
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: of link together. So whatever you had on that first

671
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: initial thing might be it was kind of set up

672
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: punchline basically, is how it worked for sure.

673
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: And he in that interview I read with him, he

674
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: said it take it to about two weeks to make

675
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: one of those things. I believe it, and that the

676
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: artists and I guess writers were all expected to produce

677
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: twenty and then later on twenty five pages of material

678
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: a year, and that was just the requirement. And if

679
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: you hit it, it's not like you or didn't hit it.

680
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: It's not like you were fired. But they did an

681
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: annual trip abroad for like a week or two, all

682
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: expenses paid by MAD and if you didn't hit your

683
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: your quota, you weren't on that trip.

684
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: Wow, it's pretty funny. I'm sure I'm not the only

685
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: kid who tried to guess what the fold end image

686
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: would be just by looking at the unfolded image. Sure,

687
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 2: I used to stare at that thing trying to guess

688
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: what it might be. And Jaffie was also popular for

689
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: something that I had, the little side books I bought

690
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 2: of snappy Answers to Stupid Questions?

691
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: Did you like those?

692
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: Loved them?

693
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: So? Do you have a favorite? Oh? No, okay, you

694
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: just loved.

695
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: Them all, like a favorite joker, a favorite book, a

696
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: favorite edition Anne.

697
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, favorite snappy Answers to Stupid Questions page?

698
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: Do you have one?

699
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: No, I was just asking for you.

700
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: Okay, no, no, no, but I loved him.

701
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: Okay, what about So that's al Jaffy. That's right, We're

702
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: moving on to Dick Department. I've never known how to

703
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: say this man's name, Dick de.

704
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: Bartolow de Bartolo.

705
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: I think he was the one who wrote most of

706
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: the parodies of TV movies. Just essentially any satire of

707
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: like one of those two things was probably written by

708
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: him between nineteen sixty four to twenty seventeen.

709
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and de Bartolo was born in nineteen forty five,

710
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: so he was submitting by nineteen sixty one as a

711
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 2: like sixteen or seventeen year old and getting some of

712
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: that stuff in there. And the best I can figure

713
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 2: is he was kind of a full time staffer either

714
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: at twenty or twenty one.

715
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: It's really cool.

716
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: He's just a kid, and like you said, partner with

717
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: Mort Drucker and the great Angelo Taurus, who, as you

718
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: will see, is one of a sort of group of

719
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: legendary Latin American or Latin and then American writers. He

720
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: was Puerto Rican. And then they also had a couple

721
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: of guys that we're going to talk about named Stregio

722
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: Aragones and Antonio Prohyas.

723
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: Very nice. Oh, we're going to talk about it now.

724
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: So pro Hyas was the creator of Spy versus Spy, right.

725
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: Yes, And one of the reasons Cuban, Yeah.

726
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: One of the reasons why he was so interested in

727
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: the Cold War and all of the horribleness of it

728
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: and futility of it. That was basically the ultimate message

729
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: of Spy Versus Spy is you know, like, yeah, you

730
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: can nuq one another, but we all lose was just

731
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: like that's the general theme. But because he was Cuban

732
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: and because he had been expelled from Cuba by Castro,

733
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: which like, man, if you were in the sixties, that's

734
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: like one of the most political things you can do,

735
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: be expelled from Cuba by Castro.

736
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, go to America and be famous and make lots

737
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: of exactly.

738
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: But he was famous already in Cuba when he showed

739
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: up at the offices of MAD and apparently did not

740
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: speak a lick of English, but his fourteen year old

741
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: daughter did, so he brought her with him and she

742
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: helped translate the interview and basically got across that her

743
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: father was interested in working for MAD and Bill Gaines said,

744
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: you're hired, or he probably said tell him he's hired.

745
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. He passed away in nineteen ninety eight. Sergio

746
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: Aragonis is still with us at eighty five years old.

747
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: He is Mexican and was a very successful cartoonist in Mexico.

748
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: Showed up in nineteen sixty two asked for prehia, saying

749
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: you know, I know, you've got a guy here that

750
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: could probably help interpret. Apparently that didn't work out, so

751
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: He just said, all right, well, here's my cartoons, these

752
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: one panels, and Mad was like, we don't really do

753
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: these one panels. But then someone said, you know, I

754
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: really like these. Maybe we can do Like our magazine

755
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: is so chock full of stuff, maybe we can squeeze

756
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: in even more by doing what's called marginals, which is

757
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: in the margins of the magazine. They would sneak in

758
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: these little one panel cartoons.

759
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, like just very they just made Mad that one

760
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: more thing. It was just one more thing that was like, oh,

761
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: this is Mad magazine, you know.

762
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

763
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder if he also was responsible, you know,

764
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: like the interstitial little cartoons of you know, like the

765
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: guy sweeping up the logo of bloopers and practical jokes

766
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: with Dick Clark and Ed McMahon. They were very much

767
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: like that, And I'm wondering if they hired him to

768
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: do that too. I hope they did, because if not,

769
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: they kind of ripped them.

770
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: All, you know what. I seem to remember knowing that

771
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: to be true. But I'm not gonna say absolutely, but

772
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: that does really ring a bell.

773
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: Okay, good good, I'm glad, So.

774
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: We're gonna say definitely.

775
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: Maybe there's another guy too that was worth mentioning. His

776
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: name was Dave Berg. He did the lighter side of

777
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, pretty funny, like multiple panels of you know,

778
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: I guess, pretty funny stuff. The one that I always remember.

779
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: His drawing was amazing too, not quite as it was

780
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: much more linear and angular than more drunker stuff, but still,

781
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, visually interesting. There was a guy shaving in

782
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: his beard and he was halfway done when his like

783
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: wife or girlfriend calls from the other room, like, I

784
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: changed my mind, keep your beard, and he's like making

785
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: this face in the mirror. For some reason, ten year

786
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: old Josh thought that was remarkable and remembered it. I

787
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: don't even think I laughed at it, but for some reason,

788
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: it just stuck with me.

789
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 2: Right, It's funny how that stuff happens.

790
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But he apparently was the one conservative, religious,

791
00:44:54,440 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: white suburban dude gentile. Most of the other well, I

792
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: shouldn't say most, but a lot of the others in

793
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 1: the whole conceit of mad especially earlier, was like Jewish. Yeah,

794
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: so Dave Berg was just very much intension, I guess

795
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: with the rest of the staff. Yeah, and al Jeffie

796
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: said that he kind of acted like he felt like

797
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: he was keeping carrying the whole thing on his back.

798
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 2: And the magazine or just the conservative man.

799
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: The magazine, like it was all him or something like that.

800
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: So he seems like a pretty interesting dude. But if

801
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: you remember that that comic The Lighter Side of There

802
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: was very frequently a late middle aged gentleman with like

803
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: a pipe and a leisure suit. Yeah, he's always being

804
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: put upon by hippies. I'm under the impression that that

805
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: was him doing himself.

806
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to remember what that

807
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 2: character looked like.

808
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: He had glasses, whitish, shortish hair, and it was everything

809
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: was almost always done from the bust.

810
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: Up with the pipe. Yes, okay, I'm looking at him now.

811
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: I think things like Hank Hill. Yeah a little bit,

812
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: now that you mention it, for sure.

813
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: I bet that totally is him.

814
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 1: So that's Dave Burg, and I think he was worth

815
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 1: calling out for sure.

816
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we did mention mort Drunker, but I

817
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: wanted to recognize that he passed away in twenty twenty,

818
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: and I think he was in his nineties, So like

819
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 2: these guys are living in their mid eighties to nineties

820
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: and into the hundreds, not all of them, but like

821
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: maybe there's something to humor and laughter, right being medicine.

822
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 2: Who knows, But we did mention Don Martin briefly. I

823
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: wanted to talk a little bit more about him because

824
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: he was there from nineteen fifty six to nineteen eighty eight.

825
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: Was known as Mad's maddest artist. He did. He had

826
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: a very distinct style that, like you said earlier, was

827
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: nothing like the sort of caricature realism of a mort

828
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: Drugger or Taurus, but very distinct style. Did a lot

829
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 2: of poem parodies, did these singld character like single page

830
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 2: character parodies, like it would just be a big picture

831
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: of like Moses and then just a bunch of little

832
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: like things about Moses, like a comment on the sandals

833
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: or you know how he did his nails, and you know,

834
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: a line pointing to this part on Moses's body. So

835
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: a lot of those, but mostly did he had these

836
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: comic strips. They were he did two to three per

837
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: issue and they were maybe a couple of pages usually,

838
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 2: but it was just sort of a good old fashioned

839
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 2: comic strip, and that was sort of Don Martin's jam.

840
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everybody had a very long face and very

841
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: long feet. Yeah, it was just yeah, his stuff is unmistakeable.

842
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: You could spot it anywhere even with your eyes closed.

843
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: So the thing is, like you said, these people were

844
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: living into their eighties, nineties, hundreds even, and a lot

845
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: of them were working like up until very shortly before

846
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: their deaths. So these people worked at this magazine putting

847
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: this magazine out for decades upon decades, and as a result,

848
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: Mad had the same voice like all throughout. It was

849
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: just the thing that changed was the stuff that was parodying,

850
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: you know. So I just think that's really cool. It

851
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: also explains why in the Simpsons that when bart and

852
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: Milhouse are reading Mad magazine that they're talking about Spiro

853
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: Agnew and Barton Milhouse go, they're talking about that Spiro

854
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: Agnew guy again. He must work there, And I remember

855
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: thinking the exact same thing, because these guys are by

856
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: the way, Spiro Agnew was vice president to Nixon, right.

857
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: Just a I remember that's how that name exactly.

858
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure, me too. I knew that name for

859
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: a good six seven years before I knew who he was,

860
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: and that that was like this kind of unspoken, unwritten

861
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: tradition for kids that started reading it in like probably

862
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: the early eighties onward, because these dudes were still talking

863
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: about spear Wagnu in like nineteen eighty six.

864
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no reason that a twelve year old in

865
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: the mid eighties should know anything about spiritual now.

866
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: But I just thought that Simpson's joke was just dead on.

867
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. I don't remember that joke, but that's awesome.

868
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: So another thing we need to talk about is a

869
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: very big lawsuit. They were no stranger to lawsuits. They

870
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: were no stranger to the FBI kind of sniffing around

871
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: every now and then because they were subversive and counterculture,

872
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 2: and so the FBI of course would always be interested

873
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: in that. But a big lawsuit happened in nineteen sixty

874
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 2: one when Mad released a special called sing Along with Mad,

875
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: which had twenty song parodies popular music, and the first

876
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 2: exhibit in the trial was a musical salute to a hypochondriac,

877
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 2: sung to the tune of Irving Berlin's A Pretty Girl

878
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: Is Like a melody called Luella Schwartz describes her malady.

879
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: So the estate of Berlin was not happy about this,

880
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: sued and the judge, and this ended up being a

881
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 2: landmark decision because it went all the way to the

882
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, like any any satire and that we you know,

883
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 2: enjoyed today, we can kind of trace back to this

884
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 2: lawsuit where a judge said, as a general proposition, we

885
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 2: believe that parody and satire are deserving of substantial freedom

886
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 2: both his entertainment as a form of social and this

887
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: is a key part, and as a form of social

888
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 2: and literary criticism.

889
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mad magazine did that boom, So yeah, the Estate

890
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: of Irving Berlin didn't know who they were taking on,

891
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: but that's.

892
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,959
Speaker 2: Pretty cool and they're taking on freedom.

893
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: Right, Dave. Dave traces that straight to weird Al Yankovic,

894
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: which I mean, that's a pretty obvious example. Like his

895
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: parody music, you can like he can just do that

896
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: apparently he asks typically, but weird Al to bring it

897
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 1: full circle is a huge Mad fan. Not that surprised.

898
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: Sure who made it onto the cover in twenty fifteen,

899
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: and it was one of those rare covers where alfredy

900
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: Newman's expression is different. He actually looks concerned and weirded out,

901
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: being close to weird out and weird it all has

902
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: the alfredy Newman expression on his face.

903
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 2: Oh, very interesting, man.

904
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: We just wrapped up like eight different parts of this

905
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: episode into the one cover.

906
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 2: I have to look that up. Mad magazine was very popular.

907
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: It reached its peak in the sort of the late

908
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies at a circulation rate that topped out

909
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 2: at a little more than two point one million magazines,

910
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: which is a lot. It was like just behind Time

911
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: and Newsweek and circulation numbers. I never really kind of

912
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: knew how many people read magazines back huge. Yeah, I

913
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: mean two point one in circulation is there's a lot

914
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: of folks reading that.

915
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think people really kept eating like news Newsweek

916
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: in Time and US News and will report until the

917
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: early early two thousands, like magazines worth thing until then

918
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: in the internet said I got this.

919
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's sort of you know, the story of

920
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 2: MAD to a large degree. Even though their readership did

921
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: slip after the nineteen seventies, I think it was probably

922
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: doing all right in the eighties. And Dave makes a

923
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: great point that like everyone probably says, you know, my

924
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: five or six years with Mad were the best, because

925
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: those are the ones that you knew and loved so much.

926
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 2: But I think we all know that the eighties Mad

927
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: magazines were the best ar away and you know, they

928
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: screwed everyone. They didn't pick sides obviously they were you know,

929
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: lefties in general, but they would they would make fun

930
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: of all politics. But you know, as with all magazines,

931
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 2: it would eventually dwindle. They tried to save it at

932
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: various points. I remember when they moved to LA in

933
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: the late twenty teen, I knew a few people, like

934
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: they basically hired a new staff of like kind of

935
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: cool young comedy people, and I knew a few of

936
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 2: them that ended up working for the newer iteration of Mad.

937
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: But sadly that wouldn't last too long either, Right.

938
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, who anybody you want a name check? I'm curious.

939
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think. Oh, Brian Possain worked for him,

940
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 2: I think, and then well that's true, saying's like, all right,

941
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: you're a little older. Ali Gertz she did I'm not

942
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: sure if she still does it, but did a Simpsons

943
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: podcast for Max Fun and as a singer sort of

944
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: song parody person herself, and met her to Max Fun.

945
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: She co hosted a trivia with me. Ali's great. She

946
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: was one of the editors. And then there was someone

947
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: else too. I knew, and I was just they were

948
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 2: all very excited, you know at the time obviously to

949
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: sort of take on this huge mantle like comedy brand.

950
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 2: But you know, with these huge corporate mergers a time

951
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: Warner I believe own them in the two thousands, they

952
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: merged with AT and T and that was sort of

953
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: the death knell.

954
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so finally in twenty nineteen, Mad magazines stopped

955
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: publishing original content. They still put out issues once in

956
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: a while, and if you look at the cover of

957
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: the issue, you're like, oh, this is new, Like they're

958
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: parodying everything everywhere all at once. But or say, like,

959
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: what was another one? Oh, I can't remember right now,

960
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: but current scept Westworld, right, but that West World issue

961
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: was all about tech. So they would go back and

962
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: look through all the archives and find some good stuff

963
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 1: about tech, put it all together in a compilation issue,

964
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: then slap like a current thing on the cover. That's

965
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: what they're doing today. So there's still that's got to

966
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 1: be a pretty fun job going through the Mad archives

967
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: to pull together new issues compilation issues.

968
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 2: I know a couple of guys who might be pretty

969
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 2: good at Yeah.

970
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: But that's the state of Mad today. Hey, for sure,

971
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: and I wanted like seeing what happened to Mad or

972
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: where it is today really kind of drives home what

973
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: our colleague Jack O'Brien did for Cracked. Cracked had gone

974
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: the way of Mad easily in the nineties, like long before.

975
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: While Mad was still doing pretty good, Cracked had just

976
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: kind of limped off and was just a brand somebody

977
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: owned somewhere. And apparently Jack went to the owner, found

978
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: out who owned it, and went and said, hey, can

979
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: I try to revitalize Cracked on the internet, and whoever

980
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: owned it said do your best, and he did, Like

981
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: Cracked the website like just kind of blew up and

982
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: introduced the whole new generation of people that Cracked.

983
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. Hello, Jack listened to the daily

984
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: es Eyite guys, he's in Miles, been doing that show

985
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: for a while.

986
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've been at it daily for a long time.

987
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 2: You've been a guest more than once, and I've never

988
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: been two times.

989
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: I'm remember of the two timer club.

990
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: That's right, I'm a no timer. Mad TV is something

991
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 2: we should mention that ran for fifteen seasons, believe it

992
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 2: or not. And I watched at first from ninety five

993
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 2: to two thousand and nine, and they had little nods.

994
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 2: Alfredy Newman was there early on for a few seasons

995
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 2: Spy versus Spy. They would do these little animated spy

996
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: versus Spy shorts. But it was it was a good

997
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 2: show man and they and if you look at their

998
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: roster of people like well, a lot of them went

999
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: on to be big, big names in comedy Ike Barnholds,

1000
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: Deborah Wilson, Nicole Sullivan, of course, the great Alex Borstein,

1001
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: Orlando Jones, Will Sasso. It's where Key and Peel met there. Yeah,

1002
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: Andy Daly, Terran kill him, just like a sort of

1003
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,479
Speaker 2: a who's who of comedy people.

1004
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: Okay, great?

1005
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, So did you never watch that?

1006
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: Really? I mean here or there?

1007
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh it was good.

1008
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: It was not in my wheelhouse at the time. I

1009
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: don't know what I was into, but it wasn't that.

1010
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: It might have been like when I would have watched

1011
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: it would have been during a time when Saray Night

1012
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: Live was actually good, So I might have been watching that.

1013
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: Or I'll bet I was watching Mystery Science Theater three

1014
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: thousand instead. I'll bet that's what I was watching.

1015
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: Were you only allowed one comedy show?

1016
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: Okay? I had a lot of self discipline back then,

1017
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,439
Speaker 1: and I was only I only allowed myself one comedy show.

1018
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: No, that's good stuff.

1019
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: So you got anything else about Mad Magazine?

1020
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 2: No, I mean that's that's the briefest of overviews that

1021
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: this is one that you know, we could go on

1022
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 2: for days, but we'll keep it at an hour.

1023
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll keep it in an hour, and we'll always

1024
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: keep Mad Magazine in our hearts.

1025
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: That's right.

1026
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: Since Chuck said, that's right everybody, that means it's time

1027
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: for listener mail.

1028
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this a Lady Trucker or Lady Trucker,

1029
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: Lady Trucker one more time. Hey, guys, love the show

1030
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: and listen to it at least three or four days

1031
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 2: a week. I was listening to the Trucking episode on

1032
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 2: my way to work. Really loved it. I work for

1033
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: a three p L third part party logistics company, and

1034
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 2: we are basically a company that rents truckers to move

1035
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: shipments for our customers, basically where the middleman. The industry

1036
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: is currently only made up of thirteen point seven percent women,

1037
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: And there's a really cool organization called Women in Trucking.

1038
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: You can find Women in Trucking dot org. Their mission

1039
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: is to help bring more women into the industry and

1040
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 2: help them overcome any obstacles in their paths. The company

1041
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 2: I work for is designated a women in Trucking company,

1042
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: with over half of our staff, including the owner, being women.

1043
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: The women are so supportive of one another and make

1044
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: sure to help each other out whenever possible. It's a

1045
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 2: really great industry to be a part of, and groups

1046
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: like this help to make that possible every day. I

1047
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: hope there are some young women out there who were

1048
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 2: listening to your episode and started thinking about joining this field.

1049
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: Trucking used to be just for men, but it's for

1050
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 2: us too. Keep up the great episodes. And that is

1051
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: Amanda from Pittsburgh.

1052
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: Amanda, what a great email, and yeah, shining some light

1053
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: and some quarters we weren't fully aware of in the

1054
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: hopes of luring people to those new quarters.

1055
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if that peach your interest and you're a woman,

1056
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 2: you can check out Women and Trucking dot org or

1057
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: maybe read the article how female truckers are Changing the

1058
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 2: industry that is on Dat dabt dot com and that

1059
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 2: might further peak your interest, because hey, you can make

1060
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: a hundred grand a.

1061
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: Year from my as well. Thanks again, Amanda, and thanks

1062
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: to everybody who writes in on a regular basis or

1063
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: even one time. We always appreciate your emails, even if

1064
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: we don't get a chance to read them on the

1065
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: air or respond. We here you and we appreciate you.

1066
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: So never forget hashtag. Never forget that. If you want

1067
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: to get in touch with this, like Amanda did and

1068
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: like everybody else does, you can send us an email,

1069
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

1070
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1071
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: more podcas guests my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1072
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.