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Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through

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Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and

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Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners,

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Speaker 1: old listeners. Wherever you are in the world, it is

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Speaker 1: so great to have you here back for another episode

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Speaker 1: as we, of course break down the psychology of our

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Speaker 1: twenties today, I hope you are ready for a big episode,

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Speaker 1: a very long episode, an incredibly interesting episode. We are

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Speaker 1: talking about the psychology of plastic surgery. We know that

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Speaker 1: there is this huge intersection between plastic surgery and psychology,

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Speaker 1: between plastic surgery and insecurity, social conditioning, social media, self confidence,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it stirs up a lot of debate online

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Speaker 1: and in our own conversations. I've always wanted to do

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Speaker 1: an episode on this, but I'm not an expert, so

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Speaker 1: I thought I would bring on somebody who most certainly

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Speaker 1: is somebody who has decades of experience navigating this industry,

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Speaker 1: navigating the emotions to do with plastic surgery, navigating every

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Speaker 1: single little bit and part of this experience and of

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Speaker 1: this process. So I'm so excited to have him on

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Speaker 1: board for a super interesting conversation. Whatever you believe, I

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Speaker 1: just feel like you can learn so much from how

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Speaker 1: he approaches this, what we talk about, the nooks and

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Speaker 1: crannies that we get into. So without further ado, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the complex, interesting, incredibly fascinating psychology of plastic surgery.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Rowdy Robert, and welcome to the show. Can you

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself to the audience and just tell them a

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Speaker 1: bit about who you are and what you do.

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Speaker 2: Sure, my name is Roddy Rabon. I'm a Wards certified

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Speaker 2: plastic surgeon out of Beverly Hills in California in the

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Speaker 2: United States. I've been a BORD certified plastic surgeon, practicing

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Speaker 2: predominantly i would say, esthetic surgery for over twenty years

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Speaker 2: in this sort of epicenter of Beverly Hills, and I've

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Speaker 2: done I kind of uniquely find myself doing all aspects

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Speaker 2: of plastic surgery. Usually, the minute you tell someone you

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Speaker 2: do plastic surgery, their next question is, oh, really, okay, great,

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Speaker 2: what do you specialize in? And I kind of find

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Speaker 2: myself a little bit of a unicorn in that I

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Speaker 2: literally do face those eyelid breasts, bellies, et cetera, etc.

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Speaker 2: So I do the gamut of plastic surgery.

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Speaker 1: This is the question I've always wanted to ask a

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Speaker 1: plastic surgeon, which is, how did you find yourself in

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Speaker 1: this industry, slash in this space, like when you went

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Speaker 1: and did your MD or I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: process is in the US. Did you know you wanted

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Speaker 1: to do plastic surgery or did you just kind of

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Speaker 1: like trip and fall into it.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. The answer is that people go

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Speaker 2: about it in both ways. Some people know early on.

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Speaker 2: I would say most sort of find theirselves trip and

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Speaker 2: fall into it. I always always wanted to do something

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Speaker 2: in design fusion with science, you know. I actually wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a mechanical engineer for a period of time,

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Speaker 2: and then I wanted to be an architect. So plastic

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Speaker 2: surgery was the minute I decided. I went to college

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Speaker 2: at UCLA, which is down the street from my home,

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Speaker 2: and I went in as a biochemistry major just simply

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Speaker 2: because I liked science and science came pretty naturally to me.

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Speaker 2: But I always knew that I needed to do something

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Speaker 2: in the design aesthetic, creative realm. But I had a

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Speaker 2: very strong liking towards the sciences, mechanical and civil engineering.

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Speaker 2: So when you actually really really think about it, plastic

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Speaker 2: surgery is that beautiful fusion. And then I always loved entrepreneurship.

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Speaker 2: I love business, I love you know VCS, I love

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Speaker 2: Shark Tank, And then when you think about plastic surgery,

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Speaker 2: it is actually the perfect tricycle. It's you know, business, medicine,

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Speaker 2: and design all merged into one, and for you to

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Speaker 2: be arguably successful, you need to sort of excel in

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Speaker 2: all three categories. If you imagine one of those wheels

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Speaker 2: being smaller than the others, you're not going to get

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Speaker 2: very far. So it was actually the minute I got

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Speaker 2: to undergrad, I knew pretty quickly that I wanted to

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Speaker 2: do something in the medical space. And the only thing

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Speaker 2: in medicine that allows you this degree of latitude into

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Speaker 2: creative element really is plastic surgery, not orthopedics, not ovgyn,

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Speaker 2: not pediatrics. So it was plastic surgery or bust.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting that you say it's like almost a

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Speaker 1: creative part of medicine, and I feel like when I

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Speaker 1: first hear that, I'm like, wow, that sounds that's like, actually,

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Speaker 1: that sounds strange. And then I'm like, well, yeah, you are.

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Speaker 1: You're like sculpting the body and changing it to match

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Speaker 1: someone's vision for how they want to look, which is

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Speaker 1: the fact that they're putting their care in your hands

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Speaker 1: to execute their vision is also pretty amazing. Like there

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Speaker 1: must be a great deal of trust in that as

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Speaker 1: well for you to have these people come.

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Speaker 2: To Yeah, I mean I actually take it with great

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Speaker 2: reverence and a certain degree of stress associated with it.

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Speaker 2: You know. I think the sign of a great surgeon

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Speaker 2: is one who has a certain degree of humility and fear.

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Speaker 2: And that fear is you know, you say people are

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Speaker 2: God fearing and that you know, they have respect for

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Speaker 2: something outside of themselves. And so when people come to

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Speaker 2: you and they say, you know, whether it's a young

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Speaker 2: girl or a young gentleman or an older person or

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Speaker 2: what have you, and there's something about themselves that doesn't

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Speaker 2: is incongruent with the way them see themselves, and they

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Speaker 2: ask you to help them get there, it's a very

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Speaker 2: sizable responsibility, and so I take it as such. So

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Speaker 2: I have always been in awe with what I get

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Speaker 2: to do on a daily basis, I never take it lightly.

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Speaker 1: One more icebreak. A question for you, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this is if this is a weird question

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Speaker 1: and you cannot answer it if you don't want to.

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Speaker 1: What was the first surgery that you performed as a

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Speaker 1: plastic surgeon? Do you remember?

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Speaker 2: Of course I do. I remember it vividly. So I've

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Speaker 2: been in practice now twenty plus years. And you know,

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Speaker 2: every pilot, every police officer, every person does has a

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Speaker 2: first of something right the first time a fly plane,

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Speaker 2: and you think to yourself like, okay, but like those

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Speaker 2: other jobs, like who cares if you mess it up?

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Speaker 2: Who cares if you fuck it up? But with surgery,

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Speaker 2: the first person is you know, you know it's going

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Speaker 2: to have to is the one who who is your icebreaker.

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Speaker 2: So the first turger I did actually was a breast augmentation.

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Speaker 2: And a very dear friend of mine, who I adore

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Speaker 2: and was at my wedding and is still a very

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Speaker 2: close friend of mine, always had great faith in me,

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Speaker 2: and she sent me one of her friends who had

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Speaker 2: had a few kids, and I ended up doing a

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Speaker 2: breast augmentation on her. And I remember her very very

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Speaker 2: well because she was so sweet and so bubbly. She

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Speaker 2: had had four children, and yeah, I did. My first

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Speaker 2: case was a first breast dog and it actually went

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Speaker 2: quite well. Yeah, she's still sending me patient, so I

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Speaker 2: think it was a success.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's good. Moving on to like the actual questions

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Speaker 1: around the nitty gritty of plastic surgery. One thing I

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Speaker 1: feel like we need to get out of the way

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Speaker 1: slash discuss discuss is the difference between plastic surgery and

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Speaker 1: cosmetic prosages or cosmetic surgery. I'm of the I feel

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Speaker 1: like I think they're kind of different. Am I wrong

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Speaker 1: in that? Or are they quite similar?

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Speaker 2: So I think you ask a very good question. If

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Speaker 2: the goal of today's episode is to educate and elevate

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Speaker 2: people's understanding, then you got to understand the alphabet soup,

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Speaker 2: you got to understand the vocabulary, You got to understand

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Speaker 2: the glossary of plastic surgery. And so, unlike all other fields,

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Speaker 2: plastic surgery is very confusing. And that's not by accident,

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Speaker 2: because ultimately a lot of it is driven by mating marketing.

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Speaker 2: You don't get confused when you have an arrhythmia and

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Speaker 2: your heart is not functioning correct, you go to a

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Speaker 2: cardiologist there's no confusion on that. When you have a

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Speaker 2: ovarian cyst, you go to your obgyn, you're a gynecologist,

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Speaker 2: you're obstetrician. There's no confusion in that. But in the

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Speaker 2: area of cosmetics, my god, there are thousands of different

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Speaker 2: providers with all kinds of names and things like that.

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Speaker 2: So the way it works is as follows. When you go,

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Speaker 2: at least in the United States, when you go to

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Speaker 2: medical school, you are all equal, and then you have

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Speaker 2: to select a specialty. You say, Okay, when I'm done

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Speaker 2: with my four years of med school, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be a again orthopedist, neurologist, psychiatrist, blah blah blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: And one of those is a plastic surgeon. There is

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Speaker 2: no cosmetic surgery residency. There is no just plastic surgery.

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Speaker 2: There are dermatologists, and there are ear nose and throat doctors,

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Speaker 2: but cosmetic surgery is not a residency. You then go

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Speaker 2: into being a plastic surgeon, and in your training, which

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Speaker 2: is quite diverse, one of the things that you learn

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Speaker 2: is esthetics, beauty cosmetics, so you'll learn burn surgery, you'll

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Speaker 2: learn reconstructive surgery, with microsurgery, you'll learn hand surgery blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and one of them is beauty or

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Speaker 2: aesthetics or cosmetic surgery. Then if when you graduate you decide,

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Speaker 2: you know what I really like cosmetic surgery, I really

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Speaker 2: want to specialize in this in my career, then you

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Speaker 2: will take additional training, but you will be a or

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Speaker 2: certified plastic surgeon who specializes in esthetic surgery, which is

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Speaker 2: what I do. Then comes, you know, years go by,

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Speaker 2: and then the field of medicine, naturally, like all other businesses,

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Speaker 2: is driven by money. Non cosmetic things like my gallbladder,

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Speaker 2: my hernia becomes poorer and poorer. So what that does

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Speaker 2: is it drives people who are not trained in esthetic

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Speaker 2: surgery to then change directions mid mid game and say,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I can do this? How hard could

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Speaker 2: this be? And then they then start to take any any,

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Speaker 2: any variety of lessons, whether that be online, watching a friend,

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Speaker 2: going to courses whenever they want, and then overnight they

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Speaker 2: can deem themselves as cosmetic surgeons. I know that's hard

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Speaker 2: to imagine. I know it's really like, no, come on.

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Speaker 2: And so if you go look at cosmetic surgeons and

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Speaker 2: you start to say, okay, well where what is your

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Speaker 2: actual training in you will find out that they were

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Speaker 2: general surgeons, they were obgyns, they were radiologists, they were

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Speaker 2: er physicians, and at some point in their career they decided,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to do a shit anymore, and then

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Speaker 2: they get whatever degree of training which is not very regulated,

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Speaker 2: and then they call themselves cosmetic surgeons. So the answer

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Speaker 2: is your listeners need to sadly do their home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I agree with that entirely, And it's so

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Speaker 1: interesting to hear like behind the scenes of like the

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Speaker 1: labels and like you said, the alphabet soup. I also

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Speaker 1: just think like, if you're going to permanently change the

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Speaker 1: way you look and undergo surgery, it's not something necessarily

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Speaker 1: to skimp on or to cut corners with. So you

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Speaker 1: like bring up a very interesting point, which is like

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Speaker 1: think this through, and there's multiple sides to think through

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Speaker 1: before I go further in that kind of direction. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about plastic surgery specifically in our twenties. Really,

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Speaker 1: I just have to ask how many people are getting

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery in their twenties. What is the most popular

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Speaker 1: age group that you see that gets gets work done.

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Speaker 2: So that's very interesting. So it turns out that every

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Speaker 2: decade has its more common procedures. I will say more

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Speaker 2: than ever before. Younger and younger patients are coming in

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Speaker 2: to get surgery. Why is that social media? The end?

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Speaker 2: We've always had young people having surgery. My sister who's

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Speaker 2: almost sixty, had her nose done thirty some odd years ago.

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Speaker 2: My mom who's eighty five, had her nose done sixty

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Speaker 2: years ago. So it wasn't crazy to go to a

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Speaker 2: nose job. But this idea of Belahadee cat eyes, mini facelifts,

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Speaker 2: lip lifts, I mean, there's an bbl's LiPo fat transfer,

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Speaker 2: rib remodeling. There's some crazy things that are getting done,

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Speaker 2: and they're getting done younger and younger. The only reason

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Speaker 2: that is occurring social media. That being said, you know

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Speaker 2: there's things that have happened at different ages in our life.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with twenties. What are the things that

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Speaker 2: people come in commonly for their twenties that are within

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Speaker 2: reason and what are some of the fad things that

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Speaker 2: I think are a little overboard. If your twenty year

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Speaker 2: old young lady and your breast never really fully developed,

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Speaker 2: and you find that while you love your body, and

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Speaker 2: you think everything about yourself is amazing. You work out

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Speaker 2: and everything, but you just simply never developed much breast tissue.

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Speaker 2: Then getting a breast augmentation is not an unreasonable concept,

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Speaker 2: and that happens often in your twenties. If you were

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Speaker 2: born and you were unlucky and your nose just was

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Speaker 2: crazy out of balance with your face, and you inherited

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Speaker 2: a big nose and otherwise we're a beautiful young lady.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't seem crazy to alter your nose and get a

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Speaker 2: rhinoclassic That happens in your twenties. If you were born

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Speaker 2: with a very weak chin just because genetically or mathically

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Speaker 2: you never developed and you have a massive underbyte, it's

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Speaker 2: not crazy to get a small chin implant or an

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Speaker 2: enhancement of your chin to create harmony and balance. That

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Speaker 2: happens in your twenties. Conversely, now we're getting people calling

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Speaker 2: about browlifts, but you're twenty. Lip lifts, facelips, necklifts, rib remodeling,

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Speaker 2: those are some really extreme surgeries that are not we're

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Speaker 2: nevers it really designed or really indicated for young adults.

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Speaker 2: So I think the question you're going to lead to

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Speaker 2: eventually is where's the line right, and the answer is

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Speaker 2: who knows, and that line is drawn by both surgeon

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Speaker 2: and patient. But I don't know if that answers your question,

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Speaker 2: but those are often the surgeries that are getting done.

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Speaker 1: I think it, know, it totally does. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like this isn't even broader discussion of like what is

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Speaker 1: the point where you get something done because it is

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Speaker 1: a gen you and deep insecurity for you, And then

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Speaker 1: what is the point you get something done with there

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Speaker 1: is genuinely nothing wrong and genuinely nothing that a surgery

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Speaker 1: could actually do, Like you're saying a browlift for someone

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Speaker 1: who is, you know, twenty two or twenty three, And

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's where the entrance of social media

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Speaker 1: has probably greatly, greatly swayed people. How have you seen

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Speaker 1: face tune or Instagram dysmorphia, dysphoria change how people perceive

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Speaker 1: normal beauty Like you mentioned some of those really extreme procedures.

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Speaker 1: Are you also seeing younger people coming in for perhaps

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Speaker 1: more surgeries than they need so like repeat people coming

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Speaker 1: in and changing back to a certain way, or you know,

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Speaker 1: redoing their nose or redoing their eyes or redoing their

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Speaker 1: cheeks multiple times in the span of years. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to see how you've seen the impact of this even further.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we got to start with the psychology of beauty,

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Speaker 2: plain and simple. This is well before any social media.

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Speaker 2: This goes back to Cleopatra. This goes back to the Amazon.

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Speaker 2: You know, you go to the Amazon right now with

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Speaker 2: a bun in a tribe where no one's seen any

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Speaker 2: human beings outside of the Amazon, and there you're gonna

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Speaker 2: know who the queen of the tribe is. She's the

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Speaker 2: one with the most beautiful neck and the You know,

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Speaker 2: beauty is not a concept of modern times. Beauty is

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Speaker 2: something that we know. There's tons of studies that show

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Speaker 2: that like monkeys will go to the more attractive puppet

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Speaker 2: than the other than the other puppet. So there is

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Speaker 2: an inherent built in us to desire to you know,

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Speaker 2: it comes from mating, right. Animals in the wild will

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Speaker 2: go to the more attractive bird or the more attractive flower.

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Speaker 2: So there is that, and then there is this turbocharged version,

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Speaker 2: this version where you have this sort of innate being

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Speaker 2: in our beings as people, this desire to look good

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Speaker 2: or feel good or present our best, and then you

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Speaker 2: pour gasoline on it and I think that's essentially what

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Speaker 2: social media has done in modern society. We've had billboards,

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Speaker 2: we have actors and actresses, we had magazines, we had celebrities,

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Speaker 2: we had models. This has existed for over two hundred years, right,

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Speaker 2: and you know, Oh, I think Merilyn Monroe so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, look at Grace Kelly. And it always

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Speaker 2: sort of people admired and wanted to sort of emulate

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Speaker 2: some of these people. But it was still manageable because

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Speaker 2: those people were those people like, Oh, I really want

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Speaker 2: to go to this place I see in this postcard.

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Speaker 2: It's a real place, right, you can actually go there.

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Speaker 2: And then we get into the modern world where manipulation, alteration, fabrication,

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Speaker 2: whether it's AI, face tuned filters, angles and morph, and

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Speaker 2: then reality changes. And because inherently we are vulnerable, right,

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Speaker 2: We're all vulnerable sixteen seventeen eighteen, Even grown ass adults

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Speaker 2: are immature and have insecurities. Then you massively, at a

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Speaker 2: very high level, you start bombarding people with images. Right

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Speaker 2: social media. You'd see a billboard while driving, Let's say

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Speaker 2: you drive on Sunset Boulevard, You'd see twenty five billboards

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Speaker 2: over five miles. You now see twenty five images within

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Speaker 2: five seconds. Yeah, and these images are bombarding you. Secondly,

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Speaker 2: they are not real. So you're looking at a destination like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, look how beautiful these trees and the water.

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Speaker 2: There is no place. This island doesn't exist. It's not

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Speaker 2: a real island. She doesn't look that way. No, look

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Speaker 2: at Chris Jenner. Look at the excitement that Chris Jenner

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Speaker 2: generated with her face lit right, there must be one

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Speaker 2: trillion views or comments. Well, yes, she looks good. But

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Speaker 2: the reason she looks so good is she's face tuned

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Speaker 2: every image that's come out over the last six months.

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Speaker 2: And now that her image, she cannot stay up on it.

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Speaker 2: People are noticing that she doesn't look as glossy and

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Speaker 2: amazing as she did the first couple of months because

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Speaker 2: she's face tuned everything. So people are thinking that, wait,

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Speaker 2: you have flawless skin. No, she doesn't have flawless kin.

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Speaker 2: She's almost seventy. She has a good facelift, she looks amazing,

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Speaker 2: but she doesn't have flawless skin. So what I'm getting

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Speaker 2: at is there's this balance between what is reasonable and

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Speaker 2: what is organic and what is part of humanity. And

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Speaker 2: then there's this gasoline that you poured on this smoldering

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Speaker 2: part of us, and then it's gotten out of control.

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Speaker 2: And then what happens is ninety percent of us are

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Speaker 2: subject to being impacted. And so when you're immature and

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Speaker 2: you're vulnerable, and you're thirteen or twelve or eight or

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Speaker 2: nine or sixteen or seventeen, and almost every human being

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Speaker 2: goes through a little awkward time. Her voice is changing,

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Speaker 2: their growing hair in places they shouldn't be growing wall whatever.

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Speaker 2: You look at these images and you get fomo and

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Speaker 2: all this sort of sense of like, oh wow, I'm

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Speaker 2: so far from that. My god, how ugly am I?

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Speaker 2: And you're so far from a place that doesn't exist.

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Speaker 2: And there's an amazing saying is so it creates what sadness, depression, anxiety,

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Speaker 2: And there's a very great saying. It says that your

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Speaker 2: happiness is based on the delta between where you are

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Speaker 2: and where you think you ought to be. I'm a

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Speaker 2: repeat that your happiness is based on where you are

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Speaker 2: and where you think you ought to be. So you

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Speaker 2: are here, I make X, I look like this, this

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Speaker 2: is my wife, And where you think you ought to

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Speaker 2: be is the relativeness of where you think you could

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Speaker 2: be and when where you think you could be should

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Speaker 2: be flawless skin with an amazing boyfriend, living on a boat,

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Speaker 2: driving a rolls Royce blah blah blah, skinny body, big

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Speaker 2: but small waist, then you are far far away from that,

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Speaker 2: which then leads to feeling sad, depressed, anxious. And then

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Speaker 2: what you do is you chase it. And that's where

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Speaker 2: we are today. And so I think that the amount

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Speaker 2: of mental dissatisfaction and sadness amongst insecure people ranging from

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Speaker 2: eight nine all the way up to grown ass adults

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Speaker 2: is so massive, and I really really think social media

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Speaker 2: is to blame. It's not plastic surgery, it's not the

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Speaker 2: chase to be beauty. It's the fact that you're creating

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Speaker 2: these alternative universes that will never exist. It's like porn,

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Speaker 2: it's not real. Yeah no, So anyways, that's the problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah No, I totally agree with you, and I agree

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Speaker 1: with you as someone who has seen that happen to

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Speaker 1: me in my own life, where I've been like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this person is just so amazing. If I had that,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't all these other things change? And we know, like psychologically,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know this as well. Obviously, like

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Speaker 1: with hedonic adaptation, you could have surgery. It might change

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Speaker 1: your life normally you are actually going to return to

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Speaker 1: a baseline level of happiness. It's exactly what you were

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Speaker 1: saying about. You know, Chris Jenna got this surgery and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure for her she was thinking this will be

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Speaker 1: the one that eliminates all insecurity, and yet she still

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Speaker 1: face tunes, and yet there's probably still things she doesn't like.

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Speaker 1: There's like an inner critic in all of us that

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Speaker 1: social media and the unrealisticness of beauty is really kind

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Speaker 1: of promoting. This kind of brings me to I think

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Speaker 1: probably one of the more controversial questions of this interview.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a short break and then when

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Speaker 1: we return, I'm going to pose it to you, So

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Speaker 1: stay with us. This is the question I wout to ask.

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Speaker 1: Can someone be truly body positive and still want to

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Speaker 1: change how they look? Is there I guess something that

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Speaker 1: surgery can never fix within somebody.

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Speaker 2: So the answer is, let me get let me make

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Speaker 2: sure I understand the question. Can somebody truly love themselves

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Speaker 2: as we say today be body positive? I think I'm

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Speaker 2: amazing and still find benefit from a surgery? Is that.

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Speaker 1: What the question is, I think still find benefit from

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Speaker 1: a surgery or still find themselves thinking about a surgery?

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Speaker 1: Does thinking about a surgery no go ahead?

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Speaker 2: So the answer is absolutely yes. So that would equate

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Speaker 2: the ideal patient. The ideal patient is one who comes

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Speaker 2: to you who is otherwise very happy in their life.

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Speaker 2: They have stability in their interpersonal relationships. They come in

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Speaker 2: with a very finite issue, one that can easily be

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Speaker 2: agreed upon, and as a result, the correction or the

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Speaker 2: eradication of that one very as if issue can foresure,

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Speaker 2: and I have now witnessed it for twenty plus years

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Speaker 2: dramatically change, enhance, and improve the quality of life of

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Speaker 2: that person. So let me give you such examples. So

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Speaker 2: you see a young lady and they come into your office.

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Speaker 2: I refer to my four nieces, and they are boss ladies.

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Speaker 2: Ones in law school, one's a venture capitalists. They played sports,

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Speaker 2: their soccer, one was valedictorian by all intensive purposes, kicking

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Speaker 2: ass boyfriends, everything, love their moms just a great like

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Speaker 2: great great girls. Yet because of genetics, while they are

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Speaker 2: beautiful and have great skin and nice teeth and everything,

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Speaker 2: with all fairness, all four of my niece had bad noses,

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Speaker 2: and so these four nieces of mine on their own

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Speaker 2: really disliked their noses. Every other aspect of their lives

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Speaker 2: were kick ass on ninety percent of whatever. So we

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Speaker 2: sat down individually and I mentioned them because there's so

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Speaker 2: four different young ladies of all different ranges, and we

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Speaker 2: identified the issues. We had discussions, and we said, okay,

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Speaker 2: if we alter your nose and create a better harmony,

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Speaker 2: not perfection, not the nose on Angelina and Jolie, or

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Speaker 2: let me see what Margaret, a better looking nose on you?

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Speaker 2: Would this create a little bit a better appearance and

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Speaker 2: hence make you happier? And the answer is all four

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Speaker 2: of them, all four of their noses were done at

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Speaker 2: different times in their lives, different ages. All four of

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Speaker 2: their noses still have flaws, because I'm a critic and

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Speaker 2: I know, and all four of them are over the

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Speaker 2: moon about their noses and had hence moved on and

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Speaker 2: never looked back. So nothing about the way they love

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Speaker 2: themselves has holistically changed, but that one entity about themselves

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Speaker 2: is significantly improved, which then adds to their overall confidence.

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Speaker 2: Could they have lived life without it? Sure? Had they

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Speaker 2: not had the means, would it have drastically changed their lives. No,

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Speaker 2: but the fact that they were lucky enough to be

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Speaker 2: able to afford it, have a surgeon who executed it

428
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: and it ended up being positive has unarguably changed or

429
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 2: trajectory of their life. And I can tell you that

430
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: ninety five percent of my patients their lives have been

431
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: massively improved by whatever surgery they did, whether it was

432
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: a mommy makeover after having multiple kids. And I can

433
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: give you the stories behind these people. So, if you've

434
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 2: had three kids, you kick ass, you love your husband,

435
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 2: your husband loves you, your children are healthy, you do yoga,

436
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: you go fix your body, and now your insides match

437
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: your outsides. No amount of diet exercise would have changed it. Right,

438
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: So these are such examples that connect with stories. We

439
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: are very good at isolating. Ah, you should just love yourself,

440
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: if your husband should love you. This is all nonsense.

441
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: So the answer your question is when a patient is

442
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: a good patient, a well qualified patient, and has a

443
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: stability around themselves and we're fixing a very finite issue,

444
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: then yes, I do think they can be body positive

445
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: and yet still have a dramatic improvement in their life. Mmm.

446
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: I find that interesting. Because I definitely see the point.

447
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: But what with with your nieces, like what made them bad?

448
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: What made them bad noses? Or like what made the

449
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: body of the of the woman who's given birth a

450
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: bad body? Like you mentioned that they these women were

451
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: already in the ninetieth percentile, and this woman already had

452
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: everything she wanted. What do you think it was about

453
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: changing this bad part of them or this I guess

454
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: you know part of them. They didn't like that that

455
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: meant something to them, do you know what I mean?

456
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: First question is yeah, yeah, I understand. The first question

457
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: is defining bad. Bad is a relative Paul is a

458
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: relative term. Good is a relative term. I use the

459
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: word in a very simple fashion, but it's it's it's

460
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: much more complicated that. First of all, I'm not the

461
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: one that tells them it's bad. So let's be very

462
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: very clear. These people come to me, I don't. They

463
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: don't come to me and say, hey, doctor Bond, how

464
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: you doing great? So what do you think of me? Go, well,

465
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: you look pretty good, but your nose is bad. That's

466
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: not how this goes. This is a person who has

467
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: been dwelling on this subject matter for years, seeks out help,

468
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: comes to the office and I say, how can I

469
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: help you? And they say, well, I'm not so happy

470
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: about my nose. What is it about your nose that

471
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: you dislike? Well, I don't like this huge hump, I

472
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: don't like that it's droopy. I don't like that my

473
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: tip is massively bulbous. And that doesn't make it bad.

474
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: That makes it bad to them. There is no such

475
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 2: thing as bad. If that girl or that guy loved

476
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: those features, then it would be good to them. So

477
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: when I say bad or good, it's relative to the

478
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: way they perceive themselves as to either what they would

479
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: like and or what they used to be. So then

480
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: people who like to people who like to sort of

481
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: be naysayers like to be like, well, what's wrong with it?

482
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: Who says that a hump is bad? And they like

483
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 2: to sort of play that game. Then I ask you,

484
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: why did you put on lipstick this morning? Are you

485
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: wearing mascara? Have you done your nails? Do you cut

486
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: your short, trim your split ends? Do you wear perfume?

487
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: Do you have jewelry? Well, why do you do any

488
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: of those things? What's wrong with you without perfume? Why

489
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: are you shaving? You under your arms? So if we

490
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: want to play that game, everyone will fail because it's

491
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: not about the actual, absolute meaning. This is okay, and

492
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: that's not because all that is is a line in

493
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: the sand. Who are you to tell me that I'm

494
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: allowed to put on mascara, but when I get a tattoo,

495
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: I've gone too far. Who are you to tell me

496
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: that I'm allowed to put botox, but if I get

497
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: a nose job, it's too far. No one can say

498
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: that it's about relativism, and relativism is a dangerous area.

499
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: So because no one can make that definition, it's a

500
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: slippery slope. Because the person who has had forty seven

501
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: surgeries can now reverse the argument, like, so, but who

502
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: said forty seven is bad? Why is it only two?

503
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: But we're talking about mentally stable, healthy individuals who look

504
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: at themselves and feel, you know what, I don't really

505
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: love my saggy breasts, and to them it's bad, and

506
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: then there's people to them it's great. And what we

507
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 2: have to do as a society is make sure that

508
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: we don't get too far off the spectrum. And we

509
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: were doing okay because you know, at the end of

510
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: the day, we had realistic images of what could be.

511
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: But I think the dangerous area, the dangerous waters we're

512
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: in now, is that things are so accessible. You can

513
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: go to Turkey, you can go to downtown, you can

514
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: go to Miami. Things have become relatively affordable, even though

515
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: everybody bitches expensive. I mean, you could literally go and

516
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: get a boob job for nothing, and images are endless.

517
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: So this is a cocktail or a recipe for a

518
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: very bad outcome. Does that answer your question as to

519
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: what defines the person as a bad nos or what

520
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: my Nieces felt was a bad nose?

521
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, and I think it's it's like a

522
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: very like you said, it's it's incredibly complicated, and I

523
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: think I think the line some people would draw is

524
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: that there's a difference between the scar and permanently altering

525
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: how you look.

526
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 2: Like.

527
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: You can take the Mascar off, you can't take the

528
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: nose job off.

529
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: What do you tell people? What do you tell people

530
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: with tattoos?

531
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: No, I know I would have seen the same thing

532
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: where it's like.

533
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: I mean tattoo tattoo young adults. Not not really, No,

534
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: that's a lie. Those are what people tell themselves. But

535
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: tattoos are essentially permanent, even if you remove it, you

536
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: have the scar of it, and the reality is that

537
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: again I agree with you, it's all a sense of relativism,

538
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: and I think it's great to play Devil's advocate because

539
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: we need to make sure that we find center ground.

540
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: Center ground is that we're not far left, we're not

541
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: far right, whether that's in politics, whether that's in religion,

542
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: and whether that's in plastic surgical philosophy. So I do

543
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: agree that each will find that center area and draw

544
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: that line. And yes, for someone, mascaro is reversible, yet

545
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: a tattoo is not. For some people, tattoo is not

546
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: really reversible because I can cover it. So there's all

547
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: these versions of the way we sell it to ourselves.

548
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: I think the key is and it has been for

549
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: me because ultimately I'm the gatekeeper, right, I'm the one

550
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: that is there. I'm the one that will facilitate this

551
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: alteration in you. So I take that responsibily, quite heavily.

552
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: And there are many patients over the course of twenty

553
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: years that I have redirected, readvised, recentered, and refused.

554
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: Let's talk about those patients because I think regardless of

555
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, if you're listening to this, regardless of whether

556
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: you think plastic surgery is a good idea, you've had

557
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: it done yourself, or you're one of those people who's like,

558
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: I would never do that. I want to go through

559
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: the psychological process of loving my body as it is.

560
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: I think we can all kind of that there is

561
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: a level where someone seeking out plastic surgery might be

562
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: a little bit problematic. Can you tell me when you know, oh,

563
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: instances where you've been like, this person is probably not

564
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: a good candidate for plastic surgery.

565
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: Great question. So, first and foremost, my overall philosophy is

566
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: not that plastic surgery is good for everyone. As a

567
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: matter of fact, absolutely it's not good for everyone. My

568
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: simple philosophy is that if you are the right candidate,

569
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: and we've been sort of touching on what that is,

570
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: and you do a good surgery and you find a

571
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: good surgeon who collaborates with you. My experience for twenty

572
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: plus years is that the overwhelming majority of those patients

573
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: do well. That doesn't mean everyone should be doing it. Conversely,

574
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: there are absolutely people that shouldn't be doing it that

575
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: are seeking it and who are those people? And I

576
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: tend to be a bit more transparent if you follow me,

577
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: on social media. You listen to my podcasts. Everything in

578
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: anything that comes out of my mouth is cautionary. I

579
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: live and die. I'm sort of the Howard Stern meets

580
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: Heraldo uh and the you know, reportive investigator of plastic surgeons.

581
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: I'm the guy that everyone keeps sending dms to, like, Hey,

582
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: should I do this procedure? This sounds fishy? No. So

583
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: these are the things that would be a concern to me.

584
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: Number one is when a patient comes in to you

585
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: and says how much they dislike something. They describe it

586
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: to you in great detail of much how terrible it is,

587
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: and when you look at them you simply just don't

588
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: see it, Like I genuinely don't know what you're talking about.

589
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: A perfect example is a girl that came in just

590
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: today who wanted a knows job, a revision knows job,

591
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: and at the end I said, listen, I have to

592
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: tell you. I think your nose looks great. That has

593
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 2: a little bump on it and a little dis But

594
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: those things are like minor by and large, you look good.

595
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: I wouldn't touch it. So red flag number one is

596
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: what they see you don't see. Right. If my son

597
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: comes to me who's four years old and says, Papa, Papa,

598
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: do you see the monster? And I'm like, I don't

599
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: know what you're talking about. Babb blah, you know, I

600
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 2: don't see what you see. Second thing that's a red

601
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: flag is when they make it seem as though this

602
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: issue is really the end all be all, it's going

603
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: to change their lives. They apply too much emphasis on something.

604
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: You can tell that psychologically, they've attached too much value

605
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: to this item. Right. And while I think changing the

606
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: way you look creates a sense of confidence, which then

607
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: bleeds into your personal relationships, I cannot tell you the

608
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: countless number of people who have had surgeries and as

609
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: a results, have massively kindled their interpersonal relationships with their

610
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: loved ones, their boyfriends or girlfriends, their husbands, their wives.

611
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 2: But when you're making it sound like this is going

612
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: to change your life, like you just got you know,

613
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, brain transplant, that's a concern when patients

614
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: don't track the risks when you talk to them, I explain,

615
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: you know, I'm very underpromised over deliver kind I'm very like,

616
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: and then this can happen, and then this can happen,

617
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 2: and then you could be paralyzed and then you could die.

618
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: Like I'm very much doomsday because I like to push

619
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: the dooms because if you go through the doomsday conversation,

620
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: you're still on board. It means that you know, you

621
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: understand the real risks. But when they actually act like nothing,

622
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: like they don't register it, it's a concern to me

623
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 2: that they're not going to follow through. When they have

624
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: any type of psychological condition, whether they have borderline disorder,

625
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: they're very jittery, dismissive, they're very labile in their emotions.

626
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: They're crying and then they're excited, they're angry and then

627
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: they're depressed. Any type of mood swings I won't do.

628
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: And when they're asking for things that are extreme that

629
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: I just like, Like if you're five foot two and

630
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: you weigh one hundred and twenty five pounds and you're

631
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: an a cup and you bring me a photo of

632
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: some huge star and you're like, I want these massive boobs,

633
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: it's like and there's no way that's going to happen.

634
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: So remember, I don't want to be entangled in a

635
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 2: marriage with someone with a bad outcome. So as much

636
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: as it is my responsibility to prevent them from doing it.

637
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: I don't want to get involved in this with you

638
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: because you're ultimately going to be a patient who is

639
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: going to be dissatisfied or unhappy or not have a

640
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: good outcome. So I spend a lot of time trying

641
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: to make sure that I marry the right people, because

642
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 2: once I operate on you, you're my forever responsibility. Right.

643
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: It's not like I sold you a bag, a handbag

644
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: of the mall and you're happy and you return it.

645
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: You're like, this bag sucks. You're like, okay, here, buddy,

646
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: here's your money back. Just be well, this is kind

647
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: of like we're forever tie. So I am very cautionary

648
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: about making sure that the patients are have realistic and

649
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: doable expectations and they're emotionally stable and to be present

650
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: in that moment.

651
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: I want to hone in on the second point you

652
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: said here, because I think this is interesting and I

653
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: feel like the listeners will want me to talk about

654
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: this a bit. The patient who is like this is

655
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: gonna be the thing that changes my life. Why for

656
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: them would you not operate on that kind of person?

657
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: Do you think it's because they like that there's a

658
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: deeper psychological insecurity going on, or a deeper relationship with

659
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: their body that like surgery can't fix. What about that

660
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: kind of patient would maybe scare you as a as

661
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: a surgeon.

662
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: So listen, every single person has insecurities, period. So this

663
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: notion that you know, the person who has insecurities is

664
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: unstable and you should love your body is nonsense. Again,

665
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 2: I'm not going to allow these terminologies to float around,

666
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: or at least in my presence, because it just then

667
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: makes people who actually had surgery and have an amazing

668
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: outcome feel bad about themselves. Every single person, myself and clue,

669
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: my wife, the supermodel, the girl walking down the runway,

670
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: Victoria secrets has insecurities. That's part of being human. It's

671
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: about being in the center. It's about that insecurity, being

672
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: within reason where it doesn't consume you. It's about that

673
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: insecurity making sense in reality. This dimple in my butt

674
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: makes me a little insecure. It doesn't mean that I

675
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: can never be naked in front of anyone again. Do

676
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 2: you see how there's a difference between the two of those.

677
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: So everyone that comes to me is fixing an insecurity.

678
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: Every single human being that I've operated on doesn't like

679
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: the thing that they're operating on, whether it's the mole,

680
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 2: whether it's the breast, whether it's the nose, it's the eyelet.

681
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: That's an insecurity. Where it becomes a concern is where

682
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: that insecurity is so grand and it is so you

683
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 2: describe it as like as it's altered your entire life,

684
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: you having an ugly nose or not, or a big

685
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: nose or nose that doesn't fit your face. It's not

686
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 2: altering your very existence. It's not preventing you from getting

687
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 2: a job, it's not preventing you from finding a good

688
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: it's not preventing you from having a loving relationship. It

689
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: might make you feel happier and you'll be a little

690
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: more confident, and you'll take a few more pictures, and

691
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: you'll be a little bit more aggressive in life. But

692
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 2: so it's about appropriateness of that emotion. So it's kind

693
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: of like the difference between being scared of dogs and

694
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: being a little careful around dogs, and then being so

695
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: scared of dogs that you see is dog across the

696
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: street and you cross the street to the other side.

697
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: So it's the difference between being reasonable and it's making

698
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: sense and being irrational. There are irrational fears, and there's

699
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: irrational emotions, and when the emotion is not congruent with

700
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: the condition, it's a red flag, right to red flag.

701
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like love bombing someone. It's like,

702
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: how could you love me? You've only met me for

703
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: two hours? So when the love doesn't balance out with

704
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: the reality of our relationship, and it's the same thing

705
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: when the condition, Now, god forbid, God forbid, you've been

706
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: burned and your face has been mutilated, and you're telling

707
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: me it's destroyed your life. Well, that's a goddamn appropriate discussion.

708
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: Hmm. But the right because the yeah, no, I see

709
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: what you mean.

710
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the condition warrnts the emotion. But when you

711
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: come to my office and you're just flabbergasted and just

712
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: for clempt and you're just beside yourself, and I ask, okay, well,

713
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 2: what's going on. You're like, this mole, it's just which mole?

714
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: This one right here? Oh okay, what about it? Well

715
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: it's just ruined my life and I just can't and

716
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: my boy, and you're like, okay, this is just this

717
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: is a problem. And I you know, I obviously use

718
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: that as a silly example, but it can be your nose,

719
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: it can be your breast, it can be anything, but

720
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: you have to be reasonable about it. And that's what

721
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: I mean about emotional stability. And the truth is most

722
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: consults that surgeons do is about fifteen minutes. That's the average.

723
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: My console to one hour. What do you think I'm

724
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: doing for the additional forty five minutes.

725
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: I would just say probably interrogating those full things right,

726
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: making sure that this person is emotionally ready one hundred percent.

727
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: What I'm doing is digging. I'm digging, I'm having conversation

728
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: with you. I'm asking about your profession, what do you do.

729
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: I can examine you in five minutes and tell you

730
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: what surgery you need. I've been doing this for twenty years.

731
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: I don't even need to have a conversation with you.

732
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: Just send me your pictures. But the consult is actually

733
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: an interview. It's for you to interview me and like,

734
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: I don't I like this guy. He seems cool. I

735
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: don't like this guy. He seems arrogant. It's that, And

736
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 2: then for me to interview you, you don't sound like

737
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: you're going to be a good patient for me to

738
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: take care of. I'm not so sure. I can make

739
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: you happy, right, I'm not sure if I can make

740
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,479
Speaker 2: you happy. And the problem with what I do that's

741
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: totally different than every other specialty is what I produce

742
00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: is subjective. Yeah, when you go get your gallbladder remove,

743
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 2: how many patients are unhappy about their gallbladder being removed?

744
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: It's out the end unless it's like a side effect.

745
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, genuinely, right of course if you have a complication.

746
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: But I'm saying is there's no variation of out, it's

747
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: out or it's not right. But when you do your nose,

748
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: I have four million permutations. And while you and I

749
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: may have a lot of conversation, who on earth can

750
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: predict what your nose is going to look like? You

751
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: go to sleep, you wake up, and you are a

752
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: different person. Do you understand how scary that experience is

753
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: for both of us? What if you hate it and

754
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: I think it looks amazing, it's subjective. You say what

755
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 2: is this ugly thing? And I say, what do you mean?

756
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: This is a work of art. It's disgusting. I hate it,

757
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: So you better bet I'm going to spend hours, forty

758
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: five extra minutes digging to make sure that you and

759
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: I are going to be a good flash. And in

760
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: all the years I've been in practice, I've done a

761
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: pretty good job. Of Course, a few people slip through

762
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,959
Speaker 2: the cracks, yeah, of course, but but by and large,

763
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: I think it's worked well for me.

764
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: Follow up question here, This is so fascinating. I feel

765
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: like I'm learning. I'm learning a lot. When you have

766
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: one of those patients who fits all four criteria, well,

767
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: let's say three of the I guess I think you

768
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 1: goay four or five. Let's say three of the four

769
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: or five? What do you what do you say to them?

770
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: Do you say, here's a therapist I think you should

771
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: go see. Do you say here's a friend of mine.

772
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: Do you say give it six months? Like, what's your

773
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: protocol for those patients who you're like, this isn't this

774
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: isn't gonna be a good idea for you?

775
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: A great question, And actually that is probably the most

776
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: challenging console is to go into a room someone's come

777
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: to see you, they paid you a fee. You internally

778
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: realize this is not gonna work, and you have to

779
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: you have to walk them off the ledge and tiptoe

780
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: out of the room. So it depends if they are logical.

781
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: I will spend time, and I will spend the energy

782
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: because I have them and I have captivated their attention,

783
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: and frankly, they only will respect the voice or the

784
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: reason of a plastic surgeon, not their mom my mom

785
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: said the same thing, or my friends. Those people don't count.

786
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 2: I'm a professional who stands to make money from this. Remember,

787
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 2: my incentive is to make a living. So if I'm

788
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: telling you that this is a bad idea, I am

789
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: foregoing thousands of dollars of benefit. I don't get an

790
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: Academy award, I don't get any trophies. I just lose money.

791
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: So if they're rational in that they're logical, I can

792
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: sense that I could educate them. Then I will take

793
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: the time to be like, listen, let me show you

794
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: a photo, let me draw this, let me do this,

795
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: let me show you that this is why, that this

796
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: is that, And occasionally I can walk them back to

797
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 2: where they can see that this is a bad idea.

798
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: If I find that there's just no getting around it.

799
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: I'll never disrespect the patient or ever make them feel

800
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: bad about what they're saying. I'll never say you know what,

801
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 2: you're crazy, I don't even know what you're talking about

802
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: that's just never gonna go overwhell. So I'll often if

803
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: I don't feel that I can really connect with them

804
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: and educate them as to why, I'll often tell them that,

805
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: you know, you have a very complicated situation, and to

806
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,959
Speaker 2: be honest with you, I don't think I'm skilled enough.

807
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: Like I don't think I'm good enough to fix this problem.

808
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: In other words, I'm the issue here in terms of skill,

809
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: then you, because at the end of the day, they're

810
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: going to go and get it done. I cannot tell you. Actually,

811
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: I can tell you one third of my practice is revisional.

812
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: One third of my practice is someone that went somewhere,

813
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 2: got it done, and it's a bad outcome. So I

814
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: know unfortunately, and that have happened to me thousand times

815
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: where I've seen patients, I've walked them off the ledge.

816
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 2: I told them it's a bad idea. Yet they go

817
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 2: out one door and into another door and the next

818
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: guy says, no, no, no, that guy doesn't know what

819
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: you're talking about. They do the surgery, and then they

820
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: come back here and ask me how to fix it.

821
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, because I have their notes, right, I'm like,

822
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: I saw you four years ago didn't I tell you

823
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: not to do your nose? Didn't I tell you to

824
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: leave your breast alone? And so I know a lot

825
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: of people are they want to hear what they want

826
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: to hear, and I can only do so much to

827
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 2: guide them. So I would say fifty percent of the

828
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: patients that are in that category, I can educate them,

829
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 2: and I can gradually and slowly reel them back. And

830
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: then the other half they're gonna go elsewhere no matter

831
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: what I tell them. They're just they're just have a

832
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: B line to get this done. And you turn, you

833
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: look at social media every day, look at how many

834
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: people have gotten so far bizarre in terms of they

835
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: look the way they look. You don't. Chances are they

836
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 2: met someone along the way that said no, and they

837
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: just said bucket, I'm gonna go somewhere else. I don't care.

838
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: My job is to not per harm them. That's my

839
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: first duty. My first duty is You've come to me,

840
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to participate. I'm not gonna drive

841
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: you to a bank robbery. I'm not facie, I'm not

842
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: your uber driver. I'm not going to take you to

843
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: your weird ass destination.

844
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: That's a good analogy that's a very good analogy. I

845
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: like that we're going to take one more short break

846
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: and then I want to get to surgery addiction and

847
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: maybe some advice you have for people in their twenties

848
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: about surgery. About your things, I feel like we've been

849
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: circling the drain on this one. I think it's come

850
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: up like in a couple of times, which is surgery addiction.

851
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: You said a third of your patients are there for revisions.

852
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: People give you a laundry list of things that they want.

853
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: We've all seen people who have been I would genuinely

854
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: say disfigured by plastic surgery. What's been your experience with that?

855
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: And how do you two questions, what's been your experience?

856
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: And this being a psychology podcast, what do you think

857
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: the psychology behind that is?

858
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: Okay? So they represent point one percent of patients. Let

859
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: me reiterate body dysmorphia to the term for what you're describing,

860
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: represents point one percent of the patients out there. The

861
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: overwhelming majority of patients are normal, regular folks like you

862
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: and me. Have an issue or two that they don't

863
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: like that they identify a surgeon and go get done.

864
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: The fact that they have a bad outcome is not

865
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: because they are crazy and they have body dysmorphia. It's

866
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 2: because they pick the shitty surgeon. And the reason they

867
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 2: picked the city shitty surgeon is because there are for

868
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: every one good surgeon, there's fourteen Charlatans running around acting

869
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 2: like they're experts. Now, to address your true quint question

870
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 2: is is body dys morphia people These people that look

871
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 2: like the cat lady, that look literally unrecognizable, Well, they're fascinating.

872
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: That's why they occupy so much of the discussion when

873
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: it it's a plotic surgery. I've done one hundred podcasts

874
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: and every podcaster asked me about body dysmorphia because it's fascinating,

875
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: like it's a train wreck. We're all watching like what

876
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: the hell? Why does she look like that? And moreover,

877
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 2: who did that to her? Yeah, So the issue is twofold.

878
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: The issue is what's wrong with the person, and the

879
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: second issue is who would have done that to that person?

880
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: So body dysmorphia is a psychological condition, and it's a

881
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: condition in which you see yourself as different than you

882
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: really are, much like people who have anorexia and they

883
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: are not well and they have some degree of paranoia,

884
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 2: and they have an underlying true psychological condition. So they

885
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: need to be on medication, just like a schizophrenic needs

886
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: to be on a medication, just like someone who hear

887
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 2: voices needs to be on a medication and seek psychological health. However,

888
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:05,439
Speaker 2: because often they're estranged, because often they're isolated. Often they're

889
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: just by themselves. Often they're at the end of their

890
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: life span in terms of the money they've spent on themselves.

891
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 2: They're usually not at a job with their husband and kids.

892
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: Not those people I'm talking about buddismorphia, people who walk

893
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: around You're like, whoa. There's no one who can intervene

894
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: in those people. So that's not the issue. The issue

895
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 2: is who the hell operated on this lady seventeen times. Yeah,

896
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 2: that's the sick part. The sick part isn't that they

897
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: are that she was somebody showed up, She went to

898
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: somebody's office having had three facelifts, looking literally like a

899
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 2: stretched tambourine, and someone said, sure, I'll take your twenty

900
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: thirty forty fifty grand and do another facelift. That's the

901
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: sick part, because that's literally like child abuse. As far

902
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, it's like elderly abuse. This person is

903
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 2: not well. So it happens. I'm lucky and that it

904
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: doesn't happen in my office. Occasionally they'll get through the window.

905
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 2: If you call my office and you say I've had

906
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: four facelifts and I'm thinking something's not right and I

907
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 2: want to fifth, we just don't see you. I'm so sorry.

908
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: You know, there's nothing, there's nothing we can do to

909
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: help you. We're not going to engage the dialogue. There

910
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: is no scenario in which zero where you need five

911
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: facelifts before fifty.

912
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: That's one. Like that's literally like one every five years.

913
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: And it happens. There's a girl. There was a girl

914
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 2: what is the name of that, And I don't know.

915
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: She was like literally or six facelift and she's like fifty,

916
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: So Faddy, it is more fifth, Thank the Lord. It's

917
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: a very small minority.

918
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: I think it's an addiction right as well. Right, you

919
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: have to treat this as one plea psychological.

920
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: One hundred, one hundred percent. It is the same exact

921
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 2: area in the brain that leads to cocaine addiction, alcoholism, gambling, pornography.

922
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 2: It is a impulse.

923
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: Two final questions for you. The first one is, here's

924
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: your space, is to just address the biggest myth about

925
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: plastic surgery that you want to address. And the second

926
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: one is more specific to our audience, but I'll let

927
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: you do that one first. What's the biggest myth that

928
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: you want to address here about plastic surgery?

929
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 2: So I think I have been blessed over twenty plus

930
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: years to have been graced with so many amazing interpersonal experiences,

931
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: thousands of letters and thank you notes and gifts and

932
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: chocolates and pictures and reviews from people whose lives I've improved.

933
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: So I don't like when plastic surgery gets a bad rap,

934
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: because inherently it's an incredible tool. That being said, my

935
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 2: biggest qualm and my biggest message is that tool is

936
00:53:54,960 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: a very very sharp knife. And if that knife is incore, technically,

937
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 2: incorrectly handled, used on the wrong patient, done in the

938
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: wrong way, can create everlasting damage. And because of the

939
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: things we discussed, more damage is being done than ever before,

940
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: thereby tainting and ruining the beautiful possibilities that a good

941
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: plastic surgical experience can bring. So what I say is

942
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: people are now treating plastic surgery, operating going under anesthesia,

943
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 2: like it's literally going and getting extensions. They have lost

944
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: their reverence for it, they have lost their fear of it,

945
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 2: they have lost their You know, if you were going

946
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: to do something super significant in your life, you would

947
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: do a tremendous amount of analysis before. Plastic surgery is

948
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: no longer in that category. It's like a whimsical decision.

949
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 2: And that is my biggest concern for young adults is

950
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 2: it's something you feel like you want and the biggest

951
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 2: issues at twenty you can't afford it. So what I

952
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: see more than ever is that when you're twenty five

953
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: thousand dollars is a lot of money at twenty, and

954
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: as a result, when someone good is ten grand and

955
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: someone mediocre is five grand, you have to have it.

956
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: I have to have this now, and you forego what

957
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: you would normally have done in any other scenario, and

958
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 2: you say, ah, how bad could it be? Because it's

959
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: getting extensions. And so a lot of the revisions I

960
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 2: do are in people who had surgery as young adults

961
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 2: and at that time, aside from the fact that their

962
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: wisdom hadn't settled in there's a reason why twenty year

963
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 2: old people do stupid shit, and sixty year old people

964
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 2: are like, God, when I was twenty, what the thing?

965
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 2: Because that's when you are in the military, that's what

966
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 2: you get into fights, that's when you go to war,

967
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: that's when you protest, that's when you are at a

968
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: certain place in your life that you're conquering things. You

969
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: don't make always the best judgment, and the problem is

970
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: that you don't have the finances to do what's better.

971
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 2: So my biggest advice is save your money. So if

972
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 2: you can't afford the person that you did homework on

973
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: that's ten grand, don't kid yourself that the four grand

974
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: three grand guys just as good. Or I'll go to

975
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, the Bahamas or Turkey or Greece. I'm saying,

976
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 2: be wise, put your mature thinking cap on and just

977
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 2: treat it with the reverence that it deserves. And if

978
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: you do that, then I hope for you that you

979
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 2: will be a part of what I experience in my practice,

980
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: which is amazing transformative experiences, and that's what it should be.

981
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: Ninety nine per cent of plastic surgery should be amazing, like, Wow,

982
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: this was fucking great. I'm so happy I did this,

983
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: And there's just a lot of bad decisions being made.

984
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great advice. Now that we have you in

985
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: the advice giving mood, this is the question that we

986
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: ask everybody, which is a piece of advice you would

987
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: have for yourself in your twenties or people in their twenties.

988
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: Now that has nothing to do with what we talked

989
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: about today.

990
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 2: So I think for me personally, one of the things

991
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: that I probably overdid that I wish I didn't is

992
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 2: I spent too much of my young adult worrying about

993
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: getting where I needed to go in life. So there

994
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: are two major paths in life, those that really plan

995
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 2: and those that don't plan enough. And generally the conversation is, hey,

996
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 2: you got to have a planned kid like, you can't

997
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: just let the universe take you where it goes that

998
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: you're never going to get there. And that's actually quite true.

999
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 2: But because of my personality, I think I overplanned and

1000
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: overworried and overstreet rest about my destination. And so I

1001
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 2: got to where I got in life, which I'm so grateful.

1002
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: I got married and I had kids a little bit late,

1003
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 2: and I had a wonderful practice. Everything about my life

1004
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 2: is where I always imagined it to be, But I

1005
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 2: think I worried too much about getting here, and it

1006
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: took a little bit of the fun out of it.

1007
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 2: I was all then too worried about making it to

1008
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: my end destination and not enough time not smelling the

1009
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: roses or watching the view, but relaxing a bit. And

1010
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 2: so for the type A people who are out there,

1011
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 2: you can probably release the reins a bit and you'll

1012
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: as long as you're headed in the right direction, you'll

1013
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: probably get to your end destination without having to knuckle

1014
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 2: grip it all the way there.

1015
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: I love that advice, and you know what, it's very

1016
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: pertinent because that is the question I get. The theme

1017
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: of questions I get all the time, which is like

1018
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: how do I know that I'm on the right path?

1019
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: Like how do I do I know where I'm going?

1020
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: So I like what you said, like the destination will

1021
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 1: be there. You can take a bit of time.

1022
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you've got to have you've got first

1023
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,479
Speaker 2: of all, if you don't, if you're not on a path,

1024
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 2: you will make it anywhere. So you don't know that

1025
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: you're on the right path. But you need to be

1026
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 2: on a path, that's first of all. You have to

1027
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 2: be in the thing. You have to be in the game,

1028
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 2: and that path has to be one that's worthy of traveling,

1029
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 2: even if it ends up not being the one. So A,

1030
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: you can't not be on a path, and B pick

1031
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: a path that's worthy of traveling and don't worry about

1032
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 2: it if it's the path. If you are on a

1033
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: path and it's a path worthy traveling, the path will

1034
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 2: present itself.

1035
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: I want to say thank you so much for coming

1036
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: on the podcast.

1037
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 2: Yes can I can I have a moment to plug

1038
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 2: my podcast? Yeah?

1039
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1040
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: I think that if people enjoyed this dialogue, which I

1041
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 2: hope they did, meaning if you have any interest in

1042
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: cosmetic surgery, which most people find kind of curious or

1043
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 2: fascinating or whatever, I have an amazing podcast called Plastic

1044
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 2: Surgery on set. As from this podcast you can get

1045
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: a gauge of how I communicate information and it really

1046
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 2: covers everything in plastic surgery, from minor things to major things,

1047
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: to trends to disasters, catastrophes, to patients, to their journeys

1048
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 2: to experts, to et cetera. It's called Plastic Surgery on Censored.

1049
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 2: You find it all over to place Spotify Apple in

1050
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: the description as well. Yeah, and and I think that

1051
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: for anybody who wants more of this kind of stuff,

1052
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,439
Speaker 2: you can kind of dig in and do a little

1053
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: deep dive there, and then if they want to follow

1054
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: me or anything, it can always come onto our Instagram

1055
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: and and peruse at doctor roddy Raban, which is dr

1056
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 2: r A d y r A HbA N. So we'd

1057
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: love to have some of your twenties. My dream is

1058
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: to get a hold of all the twenties twenty year

1059
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,959
Speaker 2: old before they do shitty mistakes. Yeah, that's my goal

1060
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: is to get ahead of it, not to fix it afterwards.

1061
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: So good on you for having a podcast that is

1062
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 2: specifically targeting young adults, because often the choices we make

1063
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: in young adulthood are the ones that forever change our lives,

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Speaker 2: and if we can alter them early enough, maybe the

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Speaker 2: trajectory will be better.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Well, it was such a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: have you on board. If you enjoyed this episode, give

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Speaker 1: us a five star review, share it with a friend,

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01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: and follow us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast if

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Speaker 1: you want to, you know, give any feedback. If you

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Speaker 1: have any further questions or thoughts about this episode or

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Speaker 1: any other episodes, if you want us to expand on

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01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: anything we talked about, or if you just want to

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Speaker 1: see behind the scenes, we'd love to have you over there,

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Speaker 1: But until next time, stay safe behind, be gentle to yourself.

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Speaker 1: We will talk very very soon.