Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder what your life would have been
Speaker 1: like if you had made different choices? You mean, like
Speaker 1: if I had tea this morning instead of coffee, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. Like if six people had voted differently in
Speaker 1: Florida in the year two thousand, well the whole world
Speaker 1: would be different in that case. Sometimes I wonder, like
Speaker 1: what would have happened if I didn't go on that
Speaker 1: first day with my spouse, or you know, we went
Speaker 1: to a different restaurant, or we went for coffee instead
Speaker 1: of dinner, yeah, I know, or like if you had
Speaker 1: um conceived your children one minute earlier or a minute later.
Speaker 1: It's incredible and thinking about all the other different lives
Speaker 1: you might have lived. But the amazing thing is that
Speaker 1: there are some physicists out there that think that those
Speaker 1: other us they might be real. They might be out there,
Speaker 1: they might be living your other lives. And this is
Speaker 1: not a theory or an idea. They think it might
Speaker 1: be reality. That's right somewhere out there. There's another podcast
Speaker 1: talking about whether you might be real. I am Poorhand
Speaker 1: number one thou seventy six, and in this universe, I
Speaker 1: am a cartoonists and I'm Daniel number zero and I'm
Speaker 1: a particle physicist. I smashed particles together at the large
Speaker 1: hay John Collider. Oh wow, so this time I get
Speaker 1: we get Daniel number zero like the original. This is
Speaker 1: the prototype. Yes, so you know it might not all
Speaker 1: be functioning. There's still some bugs being worked out. This
Speaker 1: is the beta version of Daniel Daniel zero point zero,
Speaker 1: Daniel the mold Um And this is our podcast Daniel
Speaker 1: and Jorge explain the universe. And this time we're not
Speaker 1: just going to take the universe and explain it to
Speaker 1: you in a way that actually makes sense. We're gonna
Speaker 1: go bigger. We're gonna go beyond. We're gonna go multi
Speaker 1: We're going plaid beyond the diverse, bigger than the universe.
Speaker 1: That's right, bigger than the universe. We're going to think
Speaker 1: about the depths of infinity. What is infinity? How far
Speaker 1: can you go? How infinite is the universe? Are there
Speaker 1: other universes out there? I know this sounds like a
Speaker 1: crazy call in show. You might have a three in
Speaker 1: the morning on an a M radio station, but it's
Speaker 1: a real science podcast to be on the program. The
Speaker 1: MULTIVERSEUS multivirus, multiverse, It's echoing through all those other universes, right,
Speaker 1: that's right. Um, the multiverse is an amazing concept, mostly
Speaker 1: because it gets you to think about the concept of infinity.
Speaker 1: You know how if things really go on forever and
Speaker 1: you get to try everything, then anything that's possible eventually
Speaker 1: will happen, no matter how improbable, it's probably happening in
Speaker 1: an infinite multiverse. That's right. That's the wonderful, mind bending
Speaker 1: concept of the multiverse. That's what makes it such an attractive,
Speaker 1: like philosophical idea. I mean, the multiverse is really penetrated
Speaker 1: into into culture. And I know that because when I
Speaker 1: was typing multiverse into my phone, it auto corrected for multiverse,
Speaker 1: like that's a word in my phone's library, which means,
Speaker 1: you know, it must be a real thing, right, So
Speaker 1: not not multiplication, not, um, you know something basic the
Speaker 1: multiverse was to go to with multi Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: really smart device, Like, oh, are you talking about the multiverse? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's complete the multiverse. My phone is totally ready for
Speaker 1: this podcast. I know all about the multiverse. The machines. No,
Speaker 1: that's right. So in today's episode, we thought we would
Speaker 1: take the concept of the multiverse and break it down
Speaker 1: for you, explain to you, what is it? Why is
Speaker 1: it a real thing? Why do scientists talk about it?
Speaker 1: And are they actually crazy? Is it even possible that
Speaker 1: there's more than one universe out there? That's right? Doesn't
Speaker 1: even make sense? And as usual, Daniel went out and
Speaker 1: asked people on the street if they knew what the
Speaker 1: multiverse was. Before you hear them, think to yourself, what
Speaker 1: is your idea of the multiverse? Would you answer this question?
Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say, do you know what
Speaker 1: the multiverse is? Not? Really? Have you heard of the multiverse? No?
Speaker 1: I haven't you heard of the multiverse? No? My impression
Speaker 1: from having been around this kind of science for a
Speaker 1: few years is that it's a bit fantastical and it
Speaker 1: does not seem likely to be the truth. I think
Speaker 1: of it as like a serious of like our universes
Speaker 1: are like all kind of connected to the bar separate.
Speaker 1: That's from comic books, isn't it okay? So most of
Speaker 1: people didn't seem to know what the multiverse was, which
Speaker 1: was surprising to me as a comics fan who was
Speaker 1: very familiar with the DC Universe, multiverse and the Marvel multiverse.
Speaker 1: That was my favorite answer. The one person who said
Speaker 1: isn't that a thing from comic books? I love that answer.
Speaker 1: I love the answer, and I should reveal a secret, Horry,
Speaker 1: which is one of these answers was from my wife.
Speaker 1: I will not tell you which one. I will not
Speaker 1: tell you which one. And the for the purpose of
Speaker 1: contemper of continuing her enonymity. But one of those is
Speaker 1: her ANSWER's interesting? You mean the one with the beautiful voice, right,
Speaker 1: the one where she's like, this is a ridiculous question,
Speaker 1: and I can't believe you're interviewing me for your podcast.
Speaker 1: So many better things to do, trying to make dinner here,
Speaker 1: I make dinner. Excuse me, no dinner. I interviewed her
Speaker 1: while I was making dinner anyway. Um, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people, yeah, do they just haven't even heard of it, right,
Speaker 1: Like some people haven't heard it at all. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: interesting because and this is one of these words that
Speaker 1: you would think sort of explain itself, just with the
Speaker 1: word multiverse, like a multiple universe, and nobody sort of
Speaker 1: even try to guess. I don't know, I don't think
Speaker 1: that explains itself. I mean, if you ask me the question,
Speaker 1: what is on multiverse, I might say it's a poem
Speaker 1: with multiple stanzas, you know, like multiverse, I wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 1: think crazy physics theory that spans the depths of infinity
Speaker 1: or comic book and constant. And you know, I have
Speaker 1: a quibble with the word, you know, like if universe
Speaker 1: is supposed to mean everything, then how can there by
Speaker 1: definition be a multiverse? Right, Like you can't have multiple everything's.
Speaker 1: It's like a uni universe. That's right. If I say
Speaker 1: give me all your money, and you give me all
Speaker 1: your money and then and then you still have money,
Speaker 1: then you haven't really given me all your money. Right.
Speaker 1: I want to rob. I want to rob the multibank.
Speaker 1: What is the multiverse? The multiverse is a concept in
Speaker 1: physics which tries to grapple with infinity and grapples with
Speaker 1: infinity and multiple different ways. So there's the multiverse, but
Speaker 1: it's actually multiple different multiverse theories, right, But they all
Speaker 1: share one thing in common, which is that they're trying
Speaker 1: to explain when there's an arbitrary nous. They're trying to
Speaker 1: grapple with the fact that our universe seems random, like
Speaker 1: it's this way and not that other way. And the
Speaker 1: way they explained that is by suggesting maybe every way
Speaker 1: is explored by the multiverse and we just happened to
Speaker 1: live in this one. Right. And so when you find
Speaker 1: something in the universe which seems like it could have
Speaker 1: been different, and you'll wonder why is it this and
Speaker 1: not something else, the multiverse is there to calling you
Speaker 1: and say, well, maybe everything is explored somewhere, and there's
Speaker 1: no reason for it to be this and not the other.
Speaker 1: It's just random. Right. So that's kind of the reason
Speaker 1: why physicists considerate. But as a concept, what does it mean.
Speaker 1: It means multiple universes, right, that's it's a contraction of
Speaker 1: multiple universes. Yeah, it means multiple universes. Um. But then again,
Speaker 1: different physicists mean different things by by that. And so
Speaker 1: there's a guy named Max tech Mark. He's a really
Speaker 1: smart guy. I read his book. It's called Our Mathematically Universe,
Speaker 1: and it's a fascinating book. It's like six pages. It's well,
Speaker 1: it's well written, but in it he has a really
Speaker 1: nice categorization of the different kinds of multiverses. So I
Speaker 1: thought we'd follow that. Okay, so wait, there's like multi multiverses.
Speaker 1: That's right, multi multi multiverse, the uni multi multi universe.
Speaker 1: That's right, exactly. Um, they all have the same agent actually,
Speaker 1: so you can just pay them all directly. Okay, So
Speaker 1: there's what you're saying. There's a way to classify the
Speaker 1: different versions of the idea of the multiverse. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're like three layers into the inception here,
Speaker 1: be prepared for more levels. I talk about what it's like,
Speaker 1: what is one What what is one version of the multiverse.
Speaker 1: It's like the idea that there are multiple versions of
Speaker 1: like like our universe is just one version of the universe,
Speaker 1: and there might be other versions of the universe out there. Right,
Speaker 1: that's the kind of basic idea, right, that's the whole
Speaker 1: overall arching framework. But what the multi means depends on
Speaker 1: what you mean by the uni. Right. So for example,
Speaker 1: so let's get concrete, right, Um, some people think about
Speaker 1: the observable universe is our universe. That's just everything we
Speaker 1: can see, right. Remember you can't see the whole universe
Speaker 1: because light doesn't travel infinitely fast. It travels its speed
Speaker 1: of light, and so you can only see as far
Speaker 1: as light has had time to travel in the history
Speaker 1: of the universe. Right, it's all everything we can see
Speaker 1: because there might be stuff that we can't see in
Speaker 1: the universe exactly, there's other stuff out there. Now, some
Speaker 1: people think, oh, the multiverse is all these different bubbles.
Speaker 1: There's like my observable universe, and then somewhere super far away,
Speaker 1: maybe there's another me, and that other me has an
Speaker 1: observable universe that's centered around them, Okay, And so from
Speaker 1: that concept, the multiverse is probing the fact that the
Speaker 1: universe seems to have started randomly, Like why do we
Speaker 1: have the Milky Way? And why does the Milky Way
Speaker 1: look the way it does and not like another galaxy.
Speaker 1: You can trace that all the way back to like
Speaker 1: the initial conditions of the universe, the arrangement of molecules
Speaker 1: in the very very early universe, which inevitably led to
Speaker 1: the Milky Way. What if that arrangement had been a
Speaker 1: tiny bit different, right, you had coffee instead of tu
Speaker 1: had had taken that break differently, or whatever, some tiny
Speaker 1: thing had been different than the Milky Way would look different.
Speaker 1: So that simplest multiverse is just the way of saying
Speaker 1: every possible initial condition for the universe started somewhere else,
Speaker 1: and so all those other possibilities might be out there
Speaker 1: there's a version of Jorge, you know, with the blonde hair,
Speaker 1: and there's a version of the of the Earth where
Speaker 1: there's big lying blue dragons streaking through the skyle. Right,
Speaker 1: But you're sort of assuming that the space we're in
Speaker 1: our universe goes on forever infinity. Yes, And you're saying
Speaker 1: that a version of the multiverse is one in which
Speaker 1: if you just keep going in one direction, at some point,
Speaker 1: things will start to kind of repeat itself, but maybe
Speaker 1: not quite the same way, that's right, because they start
Speaker 1: from different initial conditions, right, Okay, but there's still the
Speaker 1: same universe. It's the same space, right. Okay, So that's
Speaker 1: one idea. It's the same space and the same laws
Speaker 1: of physics. But remember what is the concept that that answers? What? What?
Speaker 1: What problem in physics? Does that address the problem in
Speaker 1: physics and addresses is the fact that, you know, we
Speaker 1: don't know why we have this set of initial conditions
Speaker 1: and not some other. Right, one of the particles that
Speaker 1: started off this observable universe arranged in that way and
Speaker 1: not another. And this is just the way of saying
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because every possibility is tried, so we
Speaker 1: don't have to answer that question anymore? But well, why
Speaker 1: do physicists have so much trouble with this concept? Like
Speaker 1: why couldn't just we just be a random role of
Speaker 1: to die? And that's just the way it is. Why
Speaker 1: does it need whether is it? Why does there need
Speaker 1: to be every possible role of to die? Are you
Speaker 1: you're basically asking me why do physicists look for answers? Right?
Speaker 1: I mean that's the job. You know, you look at
Speaker 1: the university and say, why is it this and not that?
Speaker 1: Is there meaning to it? Or is it random? Right?
Speaker 1: Because if there's meaning to it, then you can get
Speaker 1: some inside. You could have just said, hey, look there's
Speaker 1: a hundred elements in the periodic table and that's all
Speaker 1: there is. And why that hundred elements? I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just random? Right? Well? I mean no, I mean
Speaker 1: in the sense that it could be. It's like I
Speaker 1: have five dollars in my pocket, and you know, I
Speaker 1: could spend time thinking about why I have five dollars,
Speaker 1: or I could spend an infinite amount amount of time
Speaker 1: thinking about why I don't have six dollars, seven dollars,
Speaker 1: eight dollars, ten dollars. Do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: why can't I just be happy that with the fact
Speaker 1: that I have five dollars. Well, I think you hit
Speaker 1: the nail. The head physicists are never happened. That's the problem.
Speaker 1: The comdue to our deep seated depression that we need
Speaker 1: to answer this question. No, we want to know why,
Speaker 1: and and the answer it's just a random choice, is
Speaker 1: not satisfied. Okay, but this seems to be like the
Speaker 1: most vanilla version of the multiverse. You're just saying that
Speaker 1: the multiverse. One version of the multiverse issues that it's
Speaker 1: so big and that there's sort of different neighborhoods where
Speaker 1: different things could have happened. That's right, So that's the
Speaker 1: most vanilla. So now let's go to chocolate chip. Let's
Speaker 1: go to the slightly more interesting multiverse flavor. What if
Speaker 1: in other parts of space, deep deep, deep, far away,
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't just the initial conditions of where the
Speaker 1: part how the particles were arranged, but maybe the constants
Speaker 1: of the laws of physics themselves are different. Like what
Speaker 1: if the mass of an electron is different bijillion light
Speaker 1: years away, or the strength of gravity is different bijillion
Speaker 1: light years away, Because there's nothing that says that's not possible.
Speaker 1: There's nothing that says that's not possible. Because these numbers,
Speaker 1: we have no reason to explain what the mass of
Speaker 1: the electron is, we have no reason to explain why
Speaker 1: gravity has the strength that does a right And so
Speaker 1: you think, well, maybe they're just random. So that's the
Speaker 1: way to answer to say, well, oh, it's just a
Speaker 1: random number. And every possibility is tried eventually, and we're
Speaker 1: just in the one that happens to be this one.
Speaker 1: We're just in the neighborhood where the electron ways, you know,
Speaker 1: point six ev exactly. And there's two varieties of this one, right,
Speaker 1: there's either the laws of physics are different somewhere else
Speaker 1: in our very very large universe, or you have like
Speaker 1: different spaces, so like these universes are not connected, Like
Speaker 1: there's the space of our universe and somehow there's another
Speaker 1: universe with a different set of laws of physics because
Speaker 1: the masses of the electron at different, the strength of
Speaker 1: gravity is different, and those spaces don't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: be connected. What do you mean, like you can't travel
Speaker 1: in a straight line from one area to the other
Speaker 1: one because something would stop you. Yeah, that one makes
Speaker 1: me a little bit more sense, because it's weird to
Speaker 1: have different masses of the electrons in the same space.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's possible, right, but it's seems
Speaker 1: somehow more comforting if those other universes with different laws
Speaker 1: of physics were somehow disconnected from hours. Okay, but what
Speaker 1: would stop you from going to that other universe? Well,
Speaker 1: if it's not connected to ours, you just can't get there,
Speaker 1: you know. I Mean, we had a whole podcast about
Speaker 1: like the shape of space, right, and we're talking about
Speaker 1: how space could be infinite, or it could be closed.
Speaker 1: It could be that you could travel forever and come
Speaker 1: back to where you started, etcetera. It's like close pockets
Speaker 1: of space. Yeah, it could also be disconnected, right, you
Speaker 1: could have two separate pockets of space that you just
Speaker 1: can't travel from one to the other, like bubbles of space. Right.
Speaker 1: And then if you have two, you could have three,
Speaker 1: you could have four, you could have a jillion, right.
Speaker 1: Why not? There, it's on sale, take as many as
Speaker 1: your life. Uh. Okay, So let's get into the other
Speaker 1: types of multiverses. But first let's take a quick break. Okay.
Speaker 1: So we're in the chocolate chip flavor multiverse where we're
Speaker 1: literally the universes are like chocolate chips, you know, like that,
Speaker 1: you're like little chocolate chips sprinkled in in on in
Speaker 1: the ice cream of infinity. Yeah, exactly, and each each
Speaker 1: one could be infinite, right, and then you just you
Speaker 1: can think of them as like layers in a pastry,
Speaker 1: or you can think of those chocolate chips or something,
Speaker 1: or you could think maybe Daniels should have eaten something
Speaker 1: before he did this podcast, or because all of his
Speaker 1: analogies seemed to be about food. Um, but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the general idea, okay, that that there could be other
Speaker 1: universes with different constants of the laws of physics, which
Speaker 1: would have, you know, a big impact, because if the
Speaker 1: electron wait a different amount, everything would be different, if
Speaker 1: neutrons that different, if the force of gravity or the
Speaker 1: force of the strong force was different the place, everything
Speaker 1: would look different. Oh, I see, because these all these numbers,
Speaker 1: you know, these constants in the laws of physics, they
Speaker 1: seem to be random. It's kind of what you're saying, right, Well,
Speaker 1: they we don't have explanations for them. That's not the
Speaker 1: same as their random, right. One explanation for not knowing
Speaker 1: why the numbers are they are what they are is, oh,
Speaker 1: they're random, but there is no explanation, and so we
Speaker 1: can just sort of put the question aside. And I see,
Speaker 1: it's possible that the electron weighs as much because of
Speaker 1: some mathematical fundamental, you know, construction of the universe. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Like say, for example, I lose two hundred bucks, and
Speaker 1: the very same day you tell me, hey, look I
Speaker 1: found two hundred bucks. Well that could be random, right,
Speaker 1: or there could be a simpler explanation, like you owe
Speaker 1: me two hundred bucks. Huh, yeah right. You don't sound persuaded,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying this is all hypothetical, and yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: so you know I actually three hundred bucks. Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: wait for the check. Um, I want to pay an
Speaker 1: ice cream please. Um. The goal of physics, remember, is
Speaker 1: to explain these things. It's not just to say, well,
Speaker 1: that's kind of a mystery head scratch, maybe it's random, right,
Speaker 1: is to say, what could explain it? Is there a
Speaker 1: deeper theory of physics that doesn't have these arbitrary numbers
Speaker 1: in it, right, that can explain why the electron is
Speaker 1: the way it is that would be a better theory
Speaker 1: of physics. Like just saying it's random. It's just not
Speaker 1: satisfactory to a physicist. That's right. To me, it's not
Speaker 1: satisfactory at all. It's like saying, stop asking questions. Okay.
Speaker 1: So then you have to posit the idea that maybe
Speaker 1: it's not random. And if it's not random, one possible
Speaker 1: explanation is that they all exist. You have to positive
Speaker 1: is random and then right, and that every possibility is
Speaker 1: tried somewhere, and that this ours was just chosen randomly.
Speaker 1: Oh I see, okay, all right, yeah, alright, alright, so
Speaker 1: let's go past chocolate chip. Okay, what's another flavor of multiverse?
Speaker 1: This is I would say this is like the rainbow
Speaker 1: Sherbet flavor of the multiverse. Flavors of multiverse. You know
Speaker 1: there's only four um. This one is the quantum mechanics multiverse.
Speaker 1: This one says, you know what happens when a particle
Speaker 1: has to make a random choice. Right, the Shortinger's cat
Speaker 1: is either dead or alive, and it's random. Right, A
Speaker 1: particle goes to the less split of the right slit.
Speaker 1: It's random. It's very uncomfortable for there to be no
Speaker 1: reason why it chooses one and not the other. So
Speaker 1: this is a version of quantum mechanics called the multi
Speaker 1: world's hypothesis, called the world's interpretation. Where both happened, the
Speaker 1: universe splits, and both things happened. The particle goes into
Speaker 1: the less slit and the right slit. Shortinger's cat is
Speaker 1: dead in one universe and alive in the other one.
Speaker 1: So every quantum interaction generates another universe where the other
Speaker 1: random thing has happened. So every choice of every electron
Speaker 1: and quantum particle in all of existence, every time it
Speaker 1: makes a decision, generates a whole new universe. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not a tiny theory, right, I mean we judge these
Speaker 1: theories based on like how simple are they? How compact
Speaker 1: link can you explain everything? And this theory generates a
Speaker 1: whole entire universe for every particle interaction. Ever, right, that's
Speaker 1: a lot of universes, So it's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of simplicity. Is the idea that they like these things
Speaker 1: get generated or is it just that everything, every possibility
Speaker 1: exists at the same time. Do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: is it kind of like it actually pops into existence?
Speaker 1: Is it into the past as well as the future. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they are created in that moment. They only
Speaker 1: start from when the choice happen because they split, right,
Speaker 1: So the number of universes is growing and we all
Speaker 1: just exist at the same time, like in the same
Speaker 1: spot in the universe in reality, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like are we on top of each other?
Speaker 1: That's not a well defined question, right, We're not in
Speaker 1: the same space because you know, our past is different
Speaker 1: from the other universe is past, right in our in
Speaker 1: our past the cat is dead or in their past
Speaker 1: the cat is alive, and so we can't interact with
Speaker 1: them at all. They would be like in a different space.
Speaker 1: I mean there's it would be a universe be just
Speaker 1: as valid. There would be ice cream and pretzels and
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff in that universe as well, although
Speaker 1: it would just be slightly different and we can't travel
Speaker 1: from one to the other. They're like causally disconnected, right
Speaker 1: because they have a different past history, So you can't
Speaker 1: get from one of the other. So where is that one?
Speaker 1: That question requires you to like put both of them
Speaker 1: in some space and then answer the question of how
Speaker 1: to get from one to the other. But they're just different,
Speaker 1: you know, they're like it's like asking how close is
Speaker 1: the page in this book to that page and that
Speaker 1: other book in China? You know, like there are different books,
Speaker 1: you know, right. Yeah, So that's the quantum mechanical and
Speaker 1: that was sort of mind blowing. And before people think
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous, remember that there is no satisfactory answer to
Speaker 1: the question and quantum mechanics of how that randomness has
Speaker 1: chosen Why the electron turn left and right? Yes, exactly
Speaker 1: why I left and not right? Yeah? And so that
Speaker 1: randomness is frustrating, right, and you'd like to have an answer,
Speaker 1: and the answer we have from quantum mechanics. The Cope
Speaker 1: Hagan interpretation, the alternative to the multi worlds says that
Speaker 1: it makes a choice. The universe throws a dice, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of crazy. Also, you know, like where
Speaker 1: is this dice? Who's in charge of throwing it? How
Speaker 1: does it work? You know? Is it really random? Why
Speaker 1: not strange? I find it natural? Doesn't? You know? Like
Speaker 1: the universe just made the decision and that's what it is.
Speaker 1: You like to live in a very decisive universe. It
Speaker 1: just like makes forward, you know. Um, Okay, so so
Speaker 1: that's the quantum mechanics multi world version of a multiverse. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so you're saying there's a fourth type, right, so
Speaker 1: we're getting crazier and crazier. Yeah, that was the rainbow
Speaker 1: shirt butt. So now where it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: this is the version of the multiverse where you like um,
Speaker 1: empty the freezer and mix everything together in a blender
Speaker 1: rainbow rainbow shirt, but pistachio, right, put in some liquorice
Speaker 1: in there. This is the idea that every possible theory
Speaker 1: of physics has its own universe, right. And to think
Speaker 1: about this you have to think about the relationship between
Speaker 1: physics and math. Right, So we use math to describe
Speaker 1: what's happening in the physical universe, right, But sometimes you
Speaker 1: can come up with a theory that doesn't reflect what's
Speaker 1: actually happening. Right, And this happens all the time. Theorists
Speaker 1: physicists come up with ideas like, oh, maybe the universe
Speaker 1: works this way. I have a beautiful mathematical theory which
Speaker 1: could describe a universe. But then they go when they
Speaker 1: check it, and no, doesn't describe our universe. F equals
Speaker 1: three m A yeah, and that would be a theory
Speaker 1: of a universe, but it wouldn't describe what's happening around me. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean not that specific example, but that's the general
Speaker 1: idea construct a different set of physical laws that are
Speaker 1: self consistent. Right. They have to be self consistent, non contradictory,
Speaker 1: and have all the right mathematical properties. There are more
Speaker 1: theories of physics than than just the one that describes
Speaker 1: our universe. Right, So Max teg Mark, he thinks that
Speaker 1: the universe is mathematical, right. That that because the universe
Speaker 1: can be represented by a mathematical construct, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: laws of physics. That means that it is those laws
Speaker 1: of physics, which means that if there are other laws
Speaker 1: of physics that you could put together, they also have
Speaker 1: their own real universes out there, and somewhere out there
Speaker 1: there is a universe following f equals three m A
Speaker 1: or whatever. The other laws of physics are not just
Speaker 1: the constant in our formulation of the laws of physics,
Speaker 1: but just like a whole different equation. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: imagine far in the future we've answered all the questions
Speaker 1: about the constants. We know why the electron has a mass.
Speaker 1: It is why the Higgs is with gravity all this stuff,
Speaker 1: we still have the laws themselves. We have to wonder,
Speaker 1: like why these laws? Why does the universe follow these
Speaker 1: laws and not these other very reasonable set of laws
Speaker 1: that my math professor were there put together and could
Speaker 1: work for his own universe, right, really, why these are
Speaker 1: not some other? So like what are some things that
Speaker 1: could change mathematically? Do you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: F doesn't equal? Is that the only physics equation you know?
Speaker 1: Or you keep going back to that one. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: challenge you give me another physics equation. I mean, I
Speaker 1: could say things like the lagrange and and potential energy,
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm not sureing a lot of people
Speaker 1: to understand that that's exactly right. Like there are i mean,
Speaker 1: even the whole concept of how energy works, right, Like
Speaker 1: we talked to another podcast about the theory of everything,
Speaker 1: how everything we're discovering is just the consequence of the
Speaker 1: universe at its lowest level. You know, is the universe
Speaker 1: at its lowest level strings and they have some interaction
Speaker 1: and everything follows from that. Or are the tiny quantum
Speaker 1: loops or are they point particles in the way they
Speaker 1: interact everything that that the that makes the universe university
Speaker 1: comes from its basic structure, and so you could ask,
Speaker 1: like it could its basic structure be different because those
Speaker 1: rules of interaction be different, right, Um? And yeah, and
Speaker 1: you can you can start from a totally different point
Speaker 1: and say I'm gonna build a universe out of tiny puppies, right,
Speaker 1: and they interact in this way, and then you can
Speaker 1: get a universe. Right, Like, build a universe. What would
Speaker 1: it look like? Maybe it wouldn't be very interesting. Maybe
Speaker 1: would have this rich, complex structure that we have right, right,
Speaker 1: but it's a valid universe. Do you have a universe
Speaker 1: with nothing in it? A completely empty universe? Right? There?
Speaker 1: You go, no nothing in it, no interactions. Boom, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a theory of physics that might
Speaker 1: be out there, right, that's the idea. That's the idea
Speaker 1: that if there's a consistent set of laws, then it exists. Right.
Speaker 1: That would be like the you know, the all black chocolate,
Speaker 1: that deep chocolate, nothing in it. Okay, So let me
Speaker 1: see if I can break this down. There's four kinds
Speaker 1: of multiverses. The first kind of multiverse is one where
Speaker 1: it's just so big that you you can live in
Speaker 1: different neighborhoods of it, and which might be different versions
Speaker 1: of each other, just because space is infinite and you're
Speaker 1: at some point going to repeat this universe, but maybe
Speaker 1: slightly different within our own still sort of universe space exactly.
Speaker 1: And those different neighborhoods are all different because they started
Speaker 1: slightly differently in the very beginning, and that's the randomness
Speaker 1: that that first Vanilli multiverse is exploring, Okay, very beginning
Speaker 1: of how the particles were put together. Okay, version number two,
Speaker 1: the chocolate chip is plays of the chocolate chip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the chocolate chip is that maybe there are other pockets
Speaker 1: of in our universe where the constants of our the
Speaker 1: loss of physics are different. And then there was a version,
Speaker 1: the quantum mechanics version, where that says every time that
Speaker 1: you open the box and the cat dies, that generates
Speaker 1: a whole universe. And there's one where the loss of
Speaker 1: physics itself, the math changes from university universe, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And for comic book fans, we could have a level five,
Speaker 1: which is Marvel universe versus DC universe versus independent upstart
Speaker 1: comic universe. Yeah, but then you had infinite crisis on
Speaker 1: infinite Earth that all collapse and then you have to
Speaker 1: reboot fifty two a few years ago, and there's a
Speaker 1: version of the universe where the DC movies are actually good.
Speaker 1: But you know those are I like the DC movies? Now, yes,
Speaker 1: they are good. I am pro DC. Oh man, you
Speaker 1: are the you are the anti Daniel. That's what We're
Speaker 1: gonna have a d C versus Marvel throat down. Um.
Speaker 1: On that note, let's take a quick break. So those
Speaker 1: are That's kind of the breakdown of all the different
Speaker 1: kinds of multiverses. But at the course, the same idea
Speaker 1: is that there are different versions of our universe out
Speaker 1: there in existence. That's right. My big question is are
Speaker 1: we ever going to know if these other universes exist? Like,
Speaker 1: is it even possible to verify that they're there, that
Speaker 1: they exist, and could we get there? Ever? The short
Speaker 1: answer is probably not right, And the long answer is
Speaker 1: it depends on the flavor of multiverse we're talking about.
Speaker 1: The simplest one. We're talking about, you know, things that
Speaker 1: are just sort of far away. Then yeah, you just
Speaker 1: wait long enough and eventually light from there will reach
Speaker 1: us and we will see that other version of you
Speaker 1: that married that other person, and you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: have kids and gets to spend their money on cool
Speaker 1: bicycles and cars and all sorts of stuff. And you
Speaker 1: can answer the question, what I've been happier, Well, if
Speaker 1: you could zip through the universe, you would eventually find
Speaker 1: another Earth. Yeah. If the universe really is infinite and
Speaker 1: the initial conditions are random, then everything that's possible will
Speaker 1: happen and you just have to go far enough away.
Speaker 1: Max Techbar tried to calculate, like how far is it
Speaker 1: away from us? Is that other you? You've got some
Speaker 1: ridiculous numbers like ten to the ten to the one hundred,
Speaker 1: So like, I mean, that's a number that's bigger than
Speaker 1: I can even imagine. Remember it's ten to the eighties,
Speaker 1: and there were particles in the universe, So ten to
Speaker 1: the ten to the one hundred is like a good,
Speaker 1: good jigabillion. But in principle, that person is out there.
Speaker 1: It's out there, it's just separated by distance from us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's that's one possible multiversity you could actually test,
Speaker 1: but it would take forever and so it's not really satisfying.
Speaker 1: The other flavors are mostly different races, you know, like
Speaker 1: the ones where the laws of physics are different or
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics has made a different choice. Those universes we
Speaker 1: can't ever visit, we can't interact with them. Almost by construction,
Speaker 1: there's no way to interact with them. And so if
Speaker 1: you can't interact with them, you can't like send a
Speaker 1: probe or get data from them. You know, then there's
Speaker 1: no way to ever prove that they exist. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no way to ever say here, we can visit them,
Speaker 1: or we can we can demonstrate conclusively that it's real
Speaker 1: and not just an idea, like we can't ever touch it,
Speaker 1: touch that that those other universes or get there. But
Speaker 1: you're saying that you're telling me the other today that
Speaker 1: we might be able to prove mathematically that they exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a nice argument um by several people, including Sean Carroll,
Speaker 1: that says that what if you had a theory of
Speaker 1: physics which required the multiverse? Right, what if the only
Speaker 1: theory of physics we could come up with here require
Speaker 1: there to be other universes, and the hard work there
Speaker 1: is figuring that out. Meaning in theory, you could know
Speaker 1: that there is a multiverse and that other multiverses exist,
Speaker 1: but you could still not be able to touch and
Speaker 1: or visit them. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to come up
Speaker 1: with a theory that absolutely requires the existence of the multiverse.
Speaker 1: The unique solution to the theory is that the multiverse exists.
Speaker 1: So in principle, I think Sean is right, it's possible,
Speaker 1: but I think it's very difficult to construct that kind
Speaker 1: of theory to prove the multiverse exists. So so it
Speaker 1: kind of seems like it's kind of if we can't
Speaker 1: ever go to these other universes or visit them. Um,
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's pretty much just the U universe,
Speaker 1: you know, Like that's right, the one we have is
Speaker 1: pretty much it for us. It's pretty much the only
Speaker 1: one we have, right for all practice rises, and I
Speaker 1: think that's where we should focus. And the reason I'm
Speaker 1: down on the multiverse is that I feel like a
Speaker 1: little bit it's a it's giving up, you know, it's saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: we don't know what the mass of the electron is,
Speaker 1: but maybe there is no answer. Maybe the electron is
Speaker 1: different here and somewhere else, and so let's just stop.
Speaker 1: And I never want to stop asking, right, I always
Speaker 1: want to say, maybe there's another theory explains it. Maybe
Speaker 1: there's a way to unravel this mystery. So the multiverse
Speaker 1: and the entropic principle, it's a way of sort of
Speaker 1: shrugging and saying, and that's not very signed. Do you
Speaker 1: want to keep taking that whole look for that one
Speaker 1: sort of unifying theory. So far, we've been making progress
Speaker 1: so far, we've figured things out. So far, when things
Speaker 1: have seemed inexplicable, we'd rerealized why they had to be
Speaker 1: that way, and it turned out there could have been
Speaker 1: no other way because we understood something in a level
Speaker 1: deeper which explained it. So I think the multiverse we're
Speaker 1: gonna look back on a hundred years and laughed, you know,
Speaker 1: and Wenna say, all those guys had no idea what
Speaker 1: was going on. Everything they thought was random was determined
Speaker 1: by laws of physics they just hadn't discovered yet. But
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think the lesson is to
Speaker 1: really focus on the one universe we have. You know,
Speaker 1: that's the only one I've got, So I'm going to
Speaker 1: spend my time trying to figure it out. So make
Speaker 1: your choices carefully. That's right, That's right because you only
Speaker 1: have one go around so far until physics finds the multiples.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you for joining us. I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed that, or I hope there's a version of the
Speaker 1: universe where you enjoyed that and I understood it as well.
Speaker 1: See you next time. Thanks for listening. If you still
Speaker 1: have a question after listening to all these explanations, please
Speaker 1: drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or email us at
Speaker 1: Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.