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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. We are so glad you're here. We're

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Speaker 1: also going to welcome our super producer, mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 2: I guess welcome back. We love you so much. He

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Speaker 2: has a big podcast.

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Speaker 3: You guys know how much I love neckties.

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Speaker 2: You guys know I have so much. That's the talk about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like curling your necktie. Oh god, now we have.

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Speaker 4: To do you have a tie rack that would do

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Speaker 4: you have enough ties that would necessitate an entire rack?

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Speaker 2: An entire rack?

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Well that's uh, that's mister Noel.

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Speaker 2: Brown, because I have one time.

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Speaker 4: You know what, man, every time I have to put

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Speaker 4: it on, I have to look up a YouTube video

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Speaker 4: on how to tie it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even joking. Only do a.

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Speaker 3: Half windsor That's the only one I've learned how to

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Speaker 3: do off a memory.

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Speaker 1: You guys don't know the different knots, full windsor or bust.

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Speaker 1: For me, guys, I'm Ben Bullen. We are We are

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Speaker 1: following up on a conversation we had earlier, longtime ridiculous historians.

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Speaker 1: We're you know, we're no better than anyone else. We're

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Speaker 1: not some sort of uh moral nor intellectual signposts for

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Speaker 1: the world but for yourself. But we do know, I

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Speaker 1: would say, we do have a pretty good spidery sense

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Speaker 1: for things that seem normal yet are ridiculous, And that

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Speaker 1: is why we're doing this episode about neckties.

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Speaker 4: Well, when you give it a little extra thought, it

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Speaker 4: does start to resemble some weird future fashion thing that

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Speaker 4: to the time traveler, the unsuspecting time traveler, just makes

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Speaker 4: no sense.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm trying to think of an example Inmoli Man,

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Speaker 2: you don't know how to use the three seashells.

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Speaker 4: That is ben you mind reader, that is exactly that specifically,

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Speaker 4: and the flavor of that. In science fiction, there's always like,

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Speaker 4: you know, some weird like cylindrical hat or something like that.

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Speaker 4: It's shaped like a you know, polygon or something like.

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Speaker 4: That's not what cylindrical means, but you know what I'm

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Speaker 4: saying it does. It's not functional. It's just a little

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Speaker 4: bit of an odd choice that clearly came from somewhere, but.

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Speaker 1: Where but where's Yeah, there's it's almost functioning like flare.

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Speaker 1: Generally speaking, the necktie today is decorative. It is ornamental

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Speaker 1: rather than functional. Think about it. A tie goes around

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Speaker 1: your neck, but it's not going to keep you warm

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Speaker 1: the way a scarf would. It's not a good it's

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Speaker 1: not a great napkin. It's not a great mop nor

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Speaker 1: great towel. You could do a tourniquet if you had to,

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Speaker 1: You really could.

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Speaker 4: You could put it around your head if you wanted

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Speaker 4: to go full office Rambo mode. If I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 4: I believe Young Gizmo did that in Gremlins too, the

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Speaker 4: new batch.

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Speaker 2: He wore a neck tie at his head and.

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Speaker 4: Was shooting those pesky gremlins with a paper clip bow

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Speaker 4: and arrow with flaming match sticks.

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Speaker 2: You know what to neat about a tie, though?

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Speaker 4: Is a tie not only is it an accoutrement or

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Speaker 4: a decorative, ornamental piece of kit itself. You can even

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Speaker 4: decorate the decorative thing with like tie pins.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, anyone's wondering clipping ties? Fifteen ties, fifteen ties.

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Speaker 5: We were waiting for the number. I've already given my number,

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Speaker 5: and it's embarrassing. So you guys win by default.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, I've got a I'm not going to do

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Speaker 1: show until here, But I have inherited several very old ties.

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Speaker 2: Ties.

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Speaker 1: It's okay where them at fancy occasions, because that's what

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Speaker 1: a tie is supposed to tell you in modern day civilization.

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Speaker 1: If you see someone walking around they got a tie on,

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Speaker 1: it's as though there's it's like having.

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Speaker 2: A fancy watch.

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Speaker 1: It's like they're saying, look at me, world, I'm doing

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Speaker 1: important stuff today.

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Speaker 4: It's like, look at me, world, I have enough money

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Speaker 4: that I can invest in this stupid thing around my neck.

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Speaker 2: You know, I love the idea of a black tie affair. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It really is the mark of the fanciest of engagements

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Speaker 4: or dinners or parties.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me to all of the one time

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Speaker 1: I got punked so hard by our buddy Miles Gray

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Speaker 1: over at Daily Zeitgeist because I said I didn't understand

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Speaker 1: fancy wristwatches. I said, it's either money laundering after a

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Speaker 1: certain threshold, or it's just a status symbol. In a

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Speaker 1: world where everyone has smartphones, your wristwatch just says look

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Speaker 1: at me, I could tell time twice.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 4: I will say, as I've gotten a little older and

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Speaker 4: I've started to maybe get a little more interested in

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Speaker 4: some of the finer things in life, whether I own

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Speaker 4: them or not, I do appreciate the engineering that goes

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Speaker 4: into a really really high end wristwatch. And similarly with

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Speaker 4: like a nice, really nice necktie. You know, it is

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Speaker 4: not engineering exactly, but the fabric, the weave, the knits,

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Speaker 4: you know, the pattern, the crazy pattern like it damn flashes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is crazy too, So let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: The idea of tying stuff around your neck as a

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Speaker 1: flex is surprisingly old. If you go back to ancient

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Speaker 1: civilizations far before Seville Row or Savile Row, you can

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Speaker 1: you can see that China, Roam, the Egyptians. These people

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Speaker 1: were rock and stuff around their neck and it was

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Speaker 1: not functional. It was a status symbol.

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Speaker 4: It also wasn't like a typical blinged out neck piece,

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Speaker 4: you know, a necklace.

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Speaker 2: That is a different class of accoutrement.

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Speaker 4: We are specifically talking about carefully tied pieces of cloth

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Speaker 4: wrapped around one's neck. Since the item is only shown

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Speaker 4: in images of Chinese soldiers terra cotta sculptures rather from

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Speaker 4: the second century BCE, it did appear to be either

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Speaker 4: a sign of rank perhaps or some sort of like

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Speaker 4: like you'd see a general wearing those those metals on

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Speaker 4: their chest or whatever, or the epaulets, is that what

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Speaker 4: they're called, the things.

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Speaker 1: On the shoulder ail eplets.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm, so yeah, it would seem to be an

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Speaker 4: indication of one's status within a military organization.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we see this again as well. In ancient Rome,

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Speaker 1: a world away, they had a strip of linen that

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Speaker 1: they called a sudarium and you worred around the neck

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Speaker 1: or sometimes in the early days, you tied it around

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Speaker 1: the wrist, as was the fashion at the time, and

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Speaker 1: it was dude's rocking this. It meant the same thing,

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Speaker 1: some sort of exemplary performance. In ancient Egypt, they would

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Speaker 1: take a similar kind of cloth, they would adorn it

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Speaker 1: with precious stones, and pharaohs would wear it.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Archaeologists have in fact found what they believed to

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Speaker 4: be some sort of I guess, protective or magical talismen

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Speaker 4: referred to as the knot of isis wrapped around the

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Speaker 4: necks of mummies, meant to be some sort of protection

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Speaker 4: in the afterlife. It is called this because it resembles

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Speaker 4: a knot that would have been used to secure garments

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Speaker 4: worn by Egyptian gods, and we're talking about knots.

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Speaker 2: It's really hard not to us keep it. We're keeping it.

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Speaker 4: It was accidentally on purpose, you know, not to think

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Speaker 4: about the way neckties are tied in various fashions.

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Speaker 1: And as our pals Ven Rafael Schneider points out writing

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Speaker 1: for Gentlemen's Gazette, certain members of tribes over in Oceania

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Speaker 1: also wore neck adornments. It's it's impossible to establish the

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Speaker 1: specific period of time when the first person began to

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Speaker 1: wrap knotted fabric around their necks, but it's pretty evident

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Speaker 1: that neckware of some sort has a tradition, a global tradition.

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Speaker 1: It's not just in the Americas, it's not just in

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Speaker 1: Western Europe. Across the world, various cultures, neck adornment of

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Speaker 1: some sort was seen as a mark of distinction. To

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Speaker 1: your point, now that maybe distinction of military office or

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Speaker 1: simply royalty. It is for the fancy people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a sign of opulence, you know, again, a bit

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Speaker 4: of a flex, like a fancy wristwatch.

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Speaker 2: There it is.

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Speaker 1: And we know, we were looking into this together. We

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Speaker 1: know the ancestor of what we call the modern necktie,

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Speaker 1: of which Max has how many Max seventeen seventeen.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right. I remember these things.

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Speaker 1: It's important data, right, Like when we go to a

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Speaker 1: friend's nice house and we immediately look up Zillow.

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Speaker 2: God, people love it. When you do that, people love it.

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Speaker 1: So the ancestor of the modern tie goes back probably

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Speaker 1: to the sixteen hundreds. It's a story that is ridiculously

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Speaker 1: rife with mercenaries, war, and you'll love this our returning characters,

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Speaker 1: Noel Brown, it's the Macaroni's.

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Speaker 2: Right, we called them that.

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Speaker 4: But wasn't that referring to like the high fashion of

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Speaker 4: the Italians?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it was referring to doodle dandy song.

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Speaker 1: Yes, what would be called Dandy's If you if you

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Speaker 1: look back to the story of why people wear ties now,

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Speaker 1: then you're really looking at Croatian mercenaries in France under

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Speaker 1: the Sun King.

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Speaker 4: And of course Louis the fourteenth, they employed Croatian mercenaries

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Speaker 4: during various battles.

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Speaker 2: As folks of their statue are wont to do.

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Speaker 4: These mercenaries wore decorative scarves or knotted neckerchiefs as part

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Speaker 4: of their military kit their uniforms. The demarcation of officers

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Speaker 4: and rank was determined by the quality of the fabric.

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Speaker 4: The finer the fabric, the higher the rank. The coarser

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Speaker 4: the fabric, the lower the rank.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're in the trenches, you might have burlap

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Speaker 1: on your neck, right, maybe died somehow, But if you were,

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Speaker 1: if your officer class, then you have better fabric and

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Speaker 1: probably better patterns approaching damn flash. The front line soldier neckerchiefs.

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Speaker 1: And I love the word neckerchiefs too, almost as much

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Speaker 1: as I like cravat, which we're about to get to. Yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: with the croats, with the Croatians. These neckerchiefs are knotted

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Speaker 1: around the soldier's necks and they have a function. They're

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Speaker 1: meant to hold up capes the ends of the cloth.

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Speaker 1: This basically this cape fastener. They're arranged in a bow.

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Speaker 1: If you're a fancy boy, they get finished with a

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Speaker 1: tuft or a tassel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you're a regular dude, you just tie it off

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Speaker 1: and hope your cape does like, does its job and

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Speaker 1: stays on.

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Speaker 4: Ben, I propose we bring back capes just in regular

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Speaker 4: walking around type of situations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was talking a couple.

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Speaker 4: Of the moves you can do the way you can

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Speaker 4: kind of whip it in front of your face in

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Speaker 4: a show of a mystique.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can do a Dracula, you can do the shadow.

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Speaker 1: You can also do a beautiful entrance and exit. Talking

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Speaker 1: with our pal Hally Fry a few years ago, I

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Speaker 1: kind of asked her about that because she also did

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Speaker 1: a show for a while called Dressed, which is all

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Speaker 1: about the history of fashion.

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Speaker 4: Well, and she's also she literally makes all of our

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Speaker 4: own clothes, that is true, and they're great, mainly Star

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Speaker 4: Wars themes or Haunted Mansion themes.

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Speaker 1: So a nice inspirational thing. This tells us just how

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Speaker 1: great our good friend Holly is. A nice inspirational anecdote

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Speaker 1: about her. She hit me back and she said, bin,

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Speaker 1: just be the change. Just start wearing a cape. And

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm too short, and she said that's what's

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Speaker 1: stopping you, your ideas and your preconception. So Holly also

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Speaker 1: obviously rocks capes. Unanimously agree.

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Speaker 4: I have a bit of a gray stripe in my

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Speaker 4: hair that I think is kind of cool, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of barbers seem to think it's cool.

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Speaker 2: Holly thought it was really cool and thought.

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Speaker 4: I shouldn't stop there, and she brought me some silver

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Speaker 4: hair dye to the office so that I could like

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Speaker 4: lean into it even further. I'm like, but Holly, it's

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Speaker 4: already silver. She's like, no, no, you can plus that.

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Speaker 2: Make it gray.

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Speaker 1: Streak up, you bad boy. I can hear it in

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Speaker 1: her voice, make it pop. So these scarves were in

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Speaker 1: addition to being cape fasteners, all right, that's the spoiler,

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Speaker 1: that's the origin story. In addition to that function, they

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Speaker 1: were known as kind of branding or uniform colorful patterns

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Speaker 1: and designs. Again, not as intricate as obviously the designs

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Speaker 1: that Dan flashes over at the Shops by the Creek,

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Speaker 1: but still flashy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, these colorful scarves did, in fact at this point

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Speaker 4: have somewhat of a function, but because you know, they

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Speaker 4: were meant to secure another garment, but the king was

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Speaker 4: more impressed with the fashion sense that they kind of represented,

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Speaker 4: and Louis the thirteenth decided he was going to co

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Speaker 4: opt this fashion, these neckerchiefs, and require them to be

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Speaker 4: worn at royal events. This is almost like the very

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Speaker 4: first introduction of the black tie affairs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well done.

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Speaker 1: This is the This is crazy because you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of fashion trends come top down, some come bottom up,

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Speaker 1: but a lot come top down. And the people of France,

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Speaker 1: starting with the richie Riches, first called this successory a

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Speaker 1: crow at croat after the Croatian mercenaries known to wear them.

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Speaker 4: Would a crow at be a single Croatian? Yes, but

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Speaker 4: specially different, Yes, that's right. So it is a fun

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Speaker 4: example that we see in this historic game of telephone

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Speaker 4: that we're always looking at, where a mispronunciation or just

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Speaker 4: something being a little too hard for the average folks

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Speaker 4: to say results in a word becoming a different word

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Speaker 4: just for convenience sake, and then that word is the

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Speaker 4: one that kind of just takes off.

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Speaker 1: So the the French public is calling this the crow at,

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Speaker 1: and then it becomes, to your point, it becomes corrupted

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Speaker 1: to la cravat or cravat or cravat in English exactly.

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Speaker 4: And over the next couple of years, this fashion trend

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Speaker 4: absolutely dominated across France and then eventually spread to the

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Speaker 4: rest of Europe. There was a bit of a function

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Speaker 4: still at this time. It was in fact a little

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Speaker 4: more comfortable than what we know historically as the heavily

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Speaker 4: starched linen ruffs that you know we're talking about, oh

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Speaker 4: you know, yeah, the big round thing that goes all

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Speaker 4: the way around the neck and you'll often see in

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Speaker 4: fancy portraits of royalty. It is absolutely absurd looking. But

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Speaker 4: that's another example of a thing out of context. It

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Speaker 4: just looks idiotic and uncomfortable. But for whatever reason, it

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Speaker 4: was considered super cool and the height of trendiness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look at me. I can hire someone to fold

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Speaker 1: by collars for me. Look at all the folds. That

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Speaker 1: was their first day of flashes. But the so the

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Speaker 1: cravat is cool because it's still showing off your neck

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Speaker 1: flex but it's way looser, it's way less rep than

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Speaker 1: these linen ruffs. And the cravats become more popular with

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Speaker 1: the wealthy. They also become more and more intricate. They're

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Speaker 1: increasingly elaborate. They're incorporating lace to their cravats, sophisticated knots,

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Speaker 1: all all this stuff. Like if you looked at the

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Speaker 1: fanciest ties in this period of time, you would think

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Speaker 1: who else would wear this other than mister Worldwide, by

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Speaker 1: which we mean Pitbull of course.

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Speaker 2: And if you can picture it too, they did have

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Speaker 2: a lot.

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Speaker 4: I think I was maybe a sort of misspoke when

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Speaker 4: I described the rough There certainly were different types of ruffs.

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Speaker 4: The ones that I'm picturing are the ones that would

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Speaker 4: go around in like a circle, like encircling your neck

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Speaker 4: like a frickin planet. But then the other kinds of

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Speaker 4: roughs were much more the very fancy linen collars that

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Speaker 4: would get stuffed into your shirt. The cravat was just

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Speaker 4: a little bit more of a simplified version of that.

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Speaker 4: But early cravats were intended to kind of be stuffed

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Speaker 4: into the front.

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Speaker 2: Of the shirt.

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Speaker 4: Which I don't know this for sure, Ben, but I

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Speaker 4: imagine is where the expression stuff shirt comes from, when

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Speaker 4: you're referring to.

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Speaker 2: A fancy boy who's like a little bit up his

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Speaker 2: own butt.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. I haven't looked into that etymology. Please find us

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Speaker 1: on Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. We'd love to hear about this.

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Speaker 4: This has been Nola's wildly speculative etymology corner.

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Speaker 2: We do know a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: We do know that the cravat was not just a

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Speaker 1: craze in France via Croatia. We know the cravat spread

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Speaker 1: to other parts of Europe. When Charles the Second over

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Speaker 1: in England, he's known for a few things. When he

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Speaker 1: encountered the cravat and won the throne, he was all

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Speaker 1: about this. So again, the king is always the taste maker, right,

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Speaker 1: That's why Cathilian Spanish still has a manufactured lisp.

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Speaker 2: Right Bathdona.

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Speaker 1: So over the course of the next century, the cravat

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Speaker 1: moves with the tantrums of empire.

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Speaker 4: So that's great empire. I mean, it's very clear everyone

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Speaker 4: totally understands what this means. This is about the monarch

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Speaker 4: kicking and screaming and pounding their tiny fists and feet

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Speaker 4: on the ground because they have to have what they

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Speaker 4: want and if you don't give it to them, then

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Speaker 4: you will be beheaded.

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Speaker 2: And there we go.

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Speaker 1: That's how the cravat catches on in Germany, and then

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Speaker 1: of course our friends across the Atlantic, the English colonies,

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Speaker 1: they start rocking this flex as well. At this point

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Speaker 1: there are numerous variations on the idea of the cravat,

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Speaker 1: but still they don't look like the relatively slim modern

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Speaker 1: ties we see today. As a matter of fact, as

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Speaker 1: we know here Nol people didn't even call them ties

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Speaker 1: for a while.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's sort of like the way you might call

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Speaker 4: a particular style of hat, the stetson, you know, or

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Speaker 4: something like that.

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Speaker 2: They were. It's almost a kind of form of branding.

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Speaker 4: So you had a variation of a tie that Louis

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Speaker 4: the fourteenth was quite fond of called steinkirk.

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Speaker 2: That's the steinkirk.

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Speaker 4: It is, Yeah, sporting a single knot and a much

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Speaker 4: narrower shape, beginning to resemble what we know today is

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Speaker 4: the modern necktie.

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Speaker 1: This is where we see the setup for the stars

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Speaker 1: of the song Yankee Doodle Dandy stuck a feather in

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Speaker 1: his cap and called it macaroni.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That is referring to the folks we mentioned before, the

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Speaker 1: sort of metro sexuals of their time, the taste makers,

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Speaker 1: these young men who were fashion aficionados. I guess we

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Speaker 1: would call them clothe horses, right. They started in the

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Speaker 1: late seventeen hundreds tying their neck wear in increasingly difficult

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Speaker 1: and intricate knots and styles which were sort of like

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Speaker 1: a code, so you could see someone and know their identifications,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Just like how honestly, like how punk dudes

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Speaker 1: have different patches on their jackets.

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Speaker 4: Of course, yeah, people in you know, motorcycle gangs, yes, as.

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Speaker 1: Well as well everybody in a motorcycle gang. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: tuning into the show.

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Speaker 4: Can we add too that the whole term of macaroni

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Speaker 4: it was it wasn't just referring to Italians. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I guess you know that we do also often think

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Speaker 4: of Italian culture as being very high fashion as well.

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Speaker 4: But it was a little bit more of a catch

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Speaker 4: all term for But it was kind of a pejorative,

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Speaker 4: right Like, it wasn't a compliment. It was referring to

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Speaker 4: people that dressed so fashionably, you know, in the styles

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Speaker 4: of the time, that they kind of looked ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the idea.

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Speaker 1: The idea was, Yeah, calling someone a macaroni was not

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Speaker 1: a comp It was saying, look at this fet fancy boy. Basically,

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Speaker 1: there maybe was even a little bit of veiled homophobia

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Speaker 1: in there. There was an implication for sure. And we

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Speaker 1: see still the cravat or the idea of decorative neckware, nakerchiefs.

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Speaker 1: He keeps getting adopted by powerful people. In the early

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, this guy named Napoleon, who is most famous

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Speaker 1: for a cameo appearance in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

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Speaker 1: He did some other stuff and he was he you know,

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Speaker 1: he got punked by a gang of rabbits one time.

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Speaker 1: He also, during the Battle of Waterloo, rocked a cravat,

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Speaker 1: And you had this great, great point, Noel, about the

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Speaker 1: origin of a black tie event. It all goes back

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Speaker 1: to a young dandy named Bo Brummel.

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Speaker 4: Bo Brummel helped to really solidify the way we think

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Speaker 4: of tying a tie or a cravat. He was a

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Speaker 4: young hip fashion icon and was a big fan of

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Speaker 4: wearing a very complicatedly tied cravat. But when he did it,

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Speaker 4: it was almost like a magic trick.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: He had this style and flare with which he was

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Speaker 4: able to tie his tie that really turned heads.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and his style was expensive in terms of time,

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Speaker 1: just like when you see someone on Instagram or TikTok

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Speaker 1: saying here's my guide to how you do this.

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Speaker 4: Thing, however, or like a cooking show where it's like

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Speaker 4: there's always like the Great mitchellin websketch that's making fun

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Speaker 4: of Gordon Ramsey, where he's like, you didn't even show

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Speaker 4: the step where you did the potato thing.

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Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned, it might as well be magic.

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Speaker 1: Locally, gradings simply cooked exactly Shakespeare's just would in order.

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Speaker 2: That's a great I'm not just good at this as

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Speaker 2: you are. Will you stay? Oh gosh, what agreed? Will

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00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: you stay forever? Yeah? I'm sorry.

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00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 4: Please watch this, guys, just type in Mitchell and weblook.

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Speaker 4: It is very very funny.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, type in Mitchell, weblook and just nuts. And so

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00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: the issue here, or the I would say the allure,

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Speaker 1: is that Bo Brummel is able to ask people not

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Speaker 1: to pay for expensive materials necessarily, but to pay with

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Speaker 1: their time. So his style becomes a matter of technique

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00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 1: rather than a matter of finance, which means middle class

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Speaker 1: and upper class folks alike can say, oh, yeah, I know, Bo,

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Speaker 1: here's my fancy, fancy thing. And because of this, now

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Speaker 1: we see the evolution of the cravats from a decorative

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Speaker 1: neck dressing to a very intricate thing. It's a statement

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Speaker 1: of ability, not just a statement of socioeconomic status.

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Speaker 4: Which is neat because it does kind of level the

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Speaker 4: playing field many ties today. You would really have to

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00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: look very hard, or like flip it around and see

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Speaker 4: the label to tell whether it was in fact a

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Speaker 4: fancy tie or not. But what really does the trick

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Speaker 4: and sets it off It's part of an outfit is

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00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 4: how well that half windsor is tied and how well

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00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: spaced it was, Because again I have to look up

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00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 4: a YouTube video every time and I still barely get

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00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 4: it right. It really does require a little bit of

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Speaker 4: precision to get it looking really sharp and have the

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Speaker 4: right length, have the square of the not perfectly spaced.

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Speaker 1: Hit your gig line. Yeah, this is all true. Women

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00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: go crazy for a sharp dressed man. We're also shouting

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Speaker 1: out our buddy bo Brummel here because Noel he is

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Speaker 1: the guy who started the trend of wearing black evening wear.

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Speaker 1: He is the black tie event guy.

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00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: He is. Indeed, I knew we were going to get there. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Pamphlet was actually circulated called neck Cloth. It sounds kind

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00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 4: of like a death metal band name a little bit.

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00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 4: I could picture catch you picture of this word when

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Speaker 4: you're looking at it on paper written in that crazy,

436
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 4: unintelligible death metal script.

437
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: I could also see it being a neckclothitania. I could

438
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: see being a HP Lovecraft monster like totally lou It

439
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: is the real title. It's a pamphlet that comes out

440
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighteen, and it has fourteen ways to tie

441
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: a cravat. It probably possibly leads to the common phrase

442
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: we used to describe this stuff today, the.

443
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 4: Tie, because it's so funny and I never would have

444
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 4: thought about this, Ben, But the tie. It refers more

445
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 4: to the act than the object.

446
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, the verb.

447
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: Right, because as as the not becomes more important than

448
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: the material used to create the knots, as as that

449
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, inversion or inflection point hits, people are more

450
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: now referring to the act of the tie. I don't

451
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: care if it's made of silk or you know, a

452
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: common cotton thread. I want to see how you rolled it.

453
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: Did you do a mathematical did you do the American?

454
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: The Irish? The male coach? These are all knots that

455
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: are in the reverse Calgary, Yeah, all the good ones.

456
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the good ones. Did you get did you

457
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: get it? Doggye style? But it is.

458
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 4: But it is interesting though, because it does sort of

459
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 4: like it's a different kind of exclusivity. You know that's

460
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 4: not based on it's based on kind of like being

461
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 4: in the know rather than you know, necessarily having a

462
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 4: ton of money.

463
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's it's arguably merit meritocratic, right, if you

464
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: can figure out how to tie the knot. Then someone

465
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: may say, you know what kind of respect you all

466
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: fabric but I am in awe of your tact. Yes,

467
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: you know techability, you all noting abilities and for a while, yeah,

468
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: obviously this was one of those why would you do

469
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: it flexes. Just like most people don't own a yacht today,

470
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: until the eighteen sixties, most people didn't own a fancy

471
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: cravat or a tie. We know that by eighteen forty

472
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: thing people had started saying tie instead of cravats, But

473
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: until like it took twenty years. Until the eighteen sixties,

474
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: the tie was handmade, right fashioned from muslin or lace

475
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: or linen, and then it had to be constantly laundered

476
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: and pressed. That's usually going to be done by servants.

477
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: So only only the fancy boys wore it because these

478
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: things were and the keyster when it came to upkeep,

479
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: it was a status symbol. It said I can hire

480
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: people to do beat me. Here Max, it said I

481
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: can hire people to.

482
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 4: Do for me, and it remains the status similar to

483
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 4: this day. In business, for example, you know there are

484
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 4: professions where if you're not wearing a suit and tie

485
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 4: to work, you are not considered professional and you will

486
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: get dinged, you know, and possibly even told to go

487
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 4: home and change. There are certain restaurants, for example, high

488
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 4: fine dining restaurants, where they will have a suit and

489
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 4: tie on, you know, like to loan out to folks

490
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 4: who dare show up, you know, not dress properly.

491
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's true. The lunar suit for you.

492
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: We do have the Industrial Revolution to thank or accuse

493
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: for the popularity of the necktie the late eighteen hundreds

494
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: in the West, working professionals became increasingly aware of how

495
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: they looked, to your point, when they're out in public,

496
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: and the tie provided a way to mark their appearance

497
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: as an individual of note, similar to certain hats. So

498
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: more and more men in the middle class are dressing

499
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: for success. They want to be upwardly mobile. They want

500
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: to have a tie, a nice hat, a nice suit,

501
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: perhaps a see your sucker, And the industries of the

502
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: world answer them. The sewing machine is invented, the assembly

503
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: line is invented. It is easier now at this point

504
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: in time to buy a tie because they're no longer handmade.

505
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: You can go to a store and they may have.

506
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: Fifty ties, they may have three different varieties of ties.

507
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: Find the one that.

508
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: Fits for you. This is increased availability, continued popularity. Uh,

509
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: the fanciest dandies in London or wearing this, which makes

510
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: them taste makers. People are following them along and they

511
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: just keep getting more and more complicated with the knots.

512
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: I think there was like an arms race. Sure, fanciest

513
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: necktie knot?

514
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: I mean, ben nodding is in its own right kind

515
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 4: of a form of technology.

516
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and really quickly.

517
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 4: But am I the only one that whenever I hear seersucker,

518
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 4: it just sounds like an insult to me.

519
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: That's funny.

520
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: I do like it is nowhere where you could call

521
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: someone a seersucker. We should do that next time we're

522
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: in a different country together.

523
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

524
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: We mentioned the American and the Irish, the male coach,

525
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Excuse me, we should also mention

526
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: the four in hand not one of the most well

527
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: known conventional tie knots today. It was created in the

528
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. Why did it get the name.

529
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: The four in hand being better than one in bush? Yes, yes,

530
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken now, the knot actually resembled the

531
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: way a driver would tie the reins to their carriage

532
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: pull or the harnet.

533
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: I guess what would you call it?

534
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: The yoke or whatever that was attached to the four

535
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: horses drawing the carriage.

536
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: So the name did feel kind of like a natural fit. Yeah, yeah,

537
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: because it looked like that. Think four in hand, four

538
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: horses in hand. There's another theory that it's named specifically

539
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: after a famous carriage driving club in London, the fore

540
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: in Hand, and that they loved the branding and helped

541
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: popularize the knot. This is where we see another neck

542
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: accessory come into play, the Ascot name for the Royal

543
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: Ascot race.

544
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: And then of course kiss my Royal Ascot.

545
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: And then of course the problematic ugh loved by some,

546
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: hated by others, the bow tie.

547
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's a vibe, you know, it is

548
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 4: definitely a vibe, But it is it has come to

549
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 4: occupy a different kind of echelon.

550
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: I guess of you know, fashion.

551
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: Choice policy wonks, Kentucky Derby types.

552
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 4: I had to I tell you, Nation of Islam, you know,

553
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 4: really popularly good with with their with their bow ties.

554
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: Did I tell you I had to wear a bow tie?

555
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: Recently?

556
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: Forced you to do this? Why did they hurt you.

557
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: You know, I had that Knoxville thing, so, oh, that's right.

558
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: I had to wear a bow tie for a thing.

559
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: But Knoxville does seem like bow tie country.

560
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: Yes, shout out to our our Paltillan fagate.

561
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: It was to see dandy.

562
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: Well, in my defense, I do know how to tie

563
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: a bow tie, so I wasn't wearing a clip on,

564
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: which is apparently the fashion.

565
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 2: Sin really, oh Sin, thank you?

566
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah, because you can tell, you can tell,

567
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 4: you could always tell for sure.

568
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: So in the nineteen twenties we know that a New

569
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: York tie maker named Jesse Langsdorf changed the game because

570
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: he figured out you could cut fabric at an angle

571
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: and then sew it together in three segments, which allowed

572
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: a tie to go back to its original shape after

573
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: you curled it and nodded it around your neck, which

574
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: meant now you didn't have to have a team of

575
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: servants to continually launder or impress your tie. Makes it

576
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: even more accessible for people around the world.

577
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 4: Well, not to mention that Langdorf's tie, the fabric of

578
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 4: it was very I guess, springing, and it would kind

579
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 4: of retain its shape a lot better than the previous

580
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 4: types of fabric where you would have to press.

581
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: Them and launder them in order for them to keep

582
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: their shapes.

583
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there were other moments of evolution along the way.

584
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: The duke of Windsor created the windsor not.

585
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: But is there a full windsor I'm sorry, I was

586
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 4: joking earlier about half joking. Half Windsor is the one

587
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: we know that I think is the most popular, kind

588
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 4: of basic not for a neck tie.

589
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: But is there a full windsor a full I don't

590
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 2: think there is. There is one hundred.

591
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, my friend Vick's big fan of that one. Yeah.

592
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 3: Basically the way he just grabs it to me is

593
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 3: just another It's another rap.

594
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's another go round.

595
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 4: You just need you have to have for another lap

596
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 4: around the tree, exactly.

597
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 3: You just need a longer tie to do it you

598
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 3: can't do with a standard tie.

599
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we also know.

600
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: We also know that ties in bright colors and celebratory

601
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: dan flash patterns were introduced in the post World War

602
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: two boom. They're still kind of popular. Nineteen fifties. You

603
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 1: see the skinny tie as well.

604
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: I like the skinny tie. I think it's kind of

605
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: kind of kind of hip.

606
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: I prefer skinny tie. David Lynch is a skinny tie guy.

607
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: That's what I got with me.

608
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, the men in black, they get skinny ties, you

609
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: know what I mean. David Duchovny as a fox molder

610
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: skinny tie.

611
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,959
Speaker 4: I just find them to be sharp and a little

612
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 4: less old fashioned looking, you know.

613
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, because what we're talking about is in contrast to

614
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies extra large ties. They were called kipper ties,

615
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: you know. They're the ones that almost look like a

616
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: clown would wear.

617
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 2: One under very cartoonist yes, yeah.

618
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: And today there are hundreds of other interesting things about ties,

619
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: you know. The it's a work in progress, it continues today.

620
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: It does not serve a physical function. It serves a

621
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: socioeconomic function. And they're all sorts of arbitrary rules about

622
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: where and why you should wear a tie a specific way,

623
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: why you shouldn't, what is appropriate, what's not, what's not.

624
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: I think they're thank you for that, thank you for

625
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: that rimshot.

626
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: Max. Can you hear my headshake?

627
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 4: I could hear your eyes and I'm moving air around

628
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 4: with MYO.

629
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: So that's our that's our show. That is the history

630
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: of neckties. We solved it.

631
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: Can I give you prop can I give you props though,

632
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 4: real quick, Ben for finding a copy of this neckcloth

633
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: Titania pamphlet. Uh, and it does have just these lovely

634
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 4: little diagrams. Let's see what do we have here, I mean, zoom, man,

635
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 4: We've got.

636
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 2: The Oriental that age so well.

637
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Napoleon, which is a little bit more of

638
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 4: like an old timey kind.

639
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: Of just draped. It looks super lazy. Yeah, very I agree.

640
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 4: Uh, the American, which is sort of just tied in

641
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 4: the middle, and none of these really outside of the

642
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 4: what is I can't read the text because it's all

643
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 4: written in very flourishy handwriting and it's a little bit

644
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 4: of a low rest graphic. But very few of these

645
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 4: tie methods resemble the modern neck tie, except for this

646
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: sixth one down, which again I can't read it. It's

647
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: like the mail coach or the mail coach, okay, mail

648
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 4: coach that no one has that hanging straight down. But

649
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 4: most of these other ones look more like you got

650
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 4: a bow tied around your neck.

651
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

652
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: And they all look like they're turtlenecks for some reason.

653
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, or like really high collar kind of you know,

654
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 4: the starch high collars.

655
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: And then at the bottom.

656
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 4: It shows you the way of folding, and I guess

657
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 4: to preserve the shape for when you're storing it and

658
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 4: when you're done with your fancy So.

659
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: Weird, dude.

660
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: Also, do people wear ties with turtlenecks?

661
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: That would be that's like putting a hat on a hat.

662
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 4: That suspenders plus a belt. Isn't exactly It seems a

663
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 4: little unga potchka. To quote my my favorite podcast, The

664
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 4: dough Boys.

665
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: Yeah we know, still neckties showed no signs of abaiting

666
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: and popularity. They're the most famous gift given on Father's Day.

667
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 4: Here ordering on lazy right, Like I like getting well

668
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 4: into the territory of lace.

669
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: I think so too.

670
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 4: Unless it's a tradition and your father truly does just

671
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 4: love ties, and you're you're picking out something very clever

672
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 4: that they would enjoy, he might just put up with it.

673
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: To jump in here real quick. It is actually funny

674
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 3: because now at the Williams household, it's much more likely

675
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: for my father to give me a tie than the

676
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: other way around.

677
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: Good turnment thing tabled, Yeah, perfect, Like the office, get

678
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: your numbers up.

679
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: Of just yelling about numbers there are there. It is

680
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: a numbers game. Then it is a numbers game.

681
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: One other thing we should say before we end. There

682
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: is a word, and this will help our pals at

683
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: the Williams Compound. There is a word for people who

684
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: collect ties. Gravitologist.

685
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: Give me that that, give me that necktie.

686
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 4: I must snatch off your necktie in my collection because

687
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 4: I'm a gramatologist.

688
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: Sounds hilarious.

689
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: It sounds like something we would have made up.

690
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: Just hang it out. Have we talked about uluologists oolologists.

691
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: It's it's an egg thing. It's like someone who studies eggs.

692
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 4: I learned it from this game that I love and

693
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 4: I've become obsessed with and it's changed my relationship with birds.

694
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 4: It's called Wingspan, and there's a particular type of bonus

695
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 4: card that involves collecting lots of eggs in particular habitats

696
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 4: in the game.

697
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: And it is the Ula Lagist card.

698
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: Oh fascinating. Okay, I was thinking of ula elation, but

699
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 1: that's definitely a different thing.

700
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: This is cool.

701
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: I look forward to playing Wingspan with you in the future,

702
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:30,479
Speaker 1: and folks, we look forward to hearing your crazy necktie stories. Yes,

703
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 1: the current most expensive deck tie in the world cost

704
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: around two hundred and twenty thousand dollars by a new

705
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: It's got diamonds on it as the main thing. And

706
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 1: if we've said anything off, perhaps it's because we are

707
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: translating from a non English language. If that is the case,

708
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: if that is funny or interesting to you, join yeah,

709
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: join us later this week, because what are we doing.

710
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 4: We're doing a history of Well it's gonna be probably

711
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 4: one in a series. I don't think we've started this

712
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 4: series yet, history of Weird and Ridiculous mistracks.

713
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: Okay, well, then we're back in maybe big.

714
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: Big thanks to super producer mister Max Williams, big big

715
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, as well as

716
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: Eves Jeff Goat. Christopher hasiotis here in spirit.

717
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 4: Can we just say huge congratulations to Jonathan Strickland aka

718
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 4: the quist for I guess sixteen years of the podcast

719
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 4: tech Stuff, and he is going to be stepping down

720
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 4: from that show soon and I think we're gonna be

721
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 4: doing some guesting on his last episodes of tech Stuff,

722
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 4: so be on the lookout for that.

723
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 2: We'll let you know when those are coming. But love

724
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: that guy, Hate that guy, Love that guy?

725
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Jonathan, answer my text anyway, so big big

726
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: thanks too, of course, aj Bahamas, Jacob's big big thanks

727
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: to Gabe Luzier, The Rude Dude's over at Ridiculous Crime

728
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: and Noel big big thanks to you, my guy.

729
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 2: Oh Gus. Well bet we'll see you next time, folks.

730
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

731
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows