1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mob never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen. And today this we we are discussing 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: something that was highly demanded by listeners. We are discussing 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: a rock star who goes by a notorious RBG, or, 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: as I call her, the grand Dame of descent, none 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: other than Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Yeah, Ruth 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg has probably been blowing up your social media 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: feeds of late, because ever since her descent that she 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: wrote in the Supreme Court case Burrowell Versus Hobby Lobby, 11 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: it's as though we cannot stop talking about how incredible 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: she is. Because this was a thirty five page descent 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: she wrote in that to that five before Supreme Court ruling, 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: part of which she read from the bench, which justices 15 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: don't typically do. It's basically like a sassy finger snapping Yeah, 16 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: if you severely disagree with what the Court has ruled, 17 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: you will read your descent from the bench. And I 18 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: also like that she, Ruth bid Ginsburg wears a especially 19 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: fierce jabeau, which is the name for the judicial caller, 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: like the lace collar that you might see. She has 21 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: one that is it's almost Game of Thrones that she'll 22 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: wear when she reads the descent. And so just for 23 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: a quick rundown, the Supreme Court ruled five to four 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: basically that the government cannot require certain employers to provide 25 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: insurance coverage for methods of birth control and emergency contraception 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: that conflict with their religious beliefs. It's popularly called the 27 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: hobby lobby decision. And uh, Justice Ginsberg Man, I mean, 28 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: she wrote a strongly worded thirty five page descent that 29 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: everybody's talking about. Um. I mean, this is hardly her 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: first foray into women's rights and gender issues. Way more 31 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: on that later, But in her descent, she was joined 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: by Justice set of Mayor, who fully supported it, and 33 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: Justices Briar and Kagan who supported all but one section. 34 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: And that group right there of Ginsburg, Sta, Mayor, Kagan, 35 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: and Briar are considered the liberal group on the Supreme Court. 36 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: They tend to vote together, um, and and the three 37 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: women in particular and kind of understandably also tend to 38 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: vote together. And and just to give you an idea 39 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: of this descent, which I feel like there it's not 40 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: very often that we here quotes from Supreme Court descents 41 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: being circulated almost viral style on social media. But the 42 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: Court I fear has ventured into a mind field. Is 43 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: a Twitter friendly quote, for instance, from that Descent that 44 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: has made its way all around the internet. Yeah, it 45 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: was even incorporated into a song by that one guy 46 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: who does a song a day project or whatever. He 47 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: incorporated that into some of his lyrics. Some other things 48 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: that she wrote, um are that, and I think this 49 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: is important if you're going to have a discussion about 50 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: birth control and reproductive freedom and all that stuff. I mean, 51 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: money plays a huge part in this right And one 52 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: thing that Ginsburg wrote was it bears note in this 53 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: regard that the cost of an i u D is 54 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: nearly equivalent to a month's full time pay for workers 55 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: earning the minimum wage. So yes, women are still free 56 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: who work for hobby lobby to go get an i 57 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: u D. They will just have to drop serious cash 58 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah. I d s do not come cheap 59 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: at all, but they are the most effective form of 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: birth control on the market, and they last for up 61 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: to five years, so it makes it financially infeasible for 62 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: a lot of these women to go and get what 63 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: is considered to be the best of the best in 64 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: terms of birth control, and a lot of what she 65 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: does in this Descent is distinguish the legal protections afforded 66 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: to and necessarily afforded to via freedom of religion in 67 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: the United States, the legal protections afforded to specific religious 68 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: organizations and nonprofit groups from the interests of for profit corporations, 69 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of what she does is sort of 70 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: asked this bigger question of, well, if we offer a 71 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: religious exemption in this situation in something that not only 72 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: has a bearing, perhaps on women's sexual activity, which gets 73 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: way too much focused in the whole birth control debate 74 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: in quotes, but also on women's health care in general, 75 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: because birth control serves more functions healthcare wise than simply 76 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: preventing pregnancy. So if you make this exemption, then where 77 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: will that stop. So there's a quote, for instance, from 78 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: the Descent saying, would the exemption extend to employers with 79 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: religiously grounded objections to blood transfusions such as Jehovah's witnesses, 80 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: antidepressants with scientologists, medications derived from pigs, including anesthesia, intravenous fluids, 81 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: and pills coated with gelatin with certain Muslims, Jews and Hindus, 82 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: and vaccinations not much help there for the lower courts 83 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: bound by today's decision. Hence, as she goes on to 84 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: finally conclude the issue of the court venturing into a 85 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: potential mind field, Yeah, and um, you know google, definitely 86 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: google the full Descent. We won't just read it to you. 87 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: This podcast will not just be us reading the Descent 88 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: to you, although you know it makes for good reading. Um. 89 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: But Ginsburg was interviewed by Katie Kirk in a highly 90 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: circulated video and she came out and said that she 91 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: does believe that her male colleagues, save Brier, on the bench, 92 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: do have a blind spot when it comes to women. 93 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: And she went on to tell Katie Kirk that no, 94 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: she did not believe that the male justices in this 95 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: case understood the ramifications of their decision. And one thing 96 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: that jumped out to me in that conversation with Kirk 97 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: was how Ginsburg underscored the vital importance of access to 98 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: birth control for all women, not just women of higher 99 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: socioeconomic means who are not as affected directly by this 100 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: hobby lobby decision to be able to control their own, 101 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: as she put it, destinies, because if you don't have 102 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: access to birth control, that I mean, that takes that 103 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: removes so much choice. Yeah. I got into a rather 104 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: fruitless Facebook conversation about this with a male Facebook friend 105 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: who basically is like, well, you know they're not going 106 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: to cover my root canal, so why should they cover 107 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: your birth control? And I said, well, but your root 108 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: now does not affect your ability to make decisions for 109 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: yourself in terms of your life and your family and 110 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: your money, because it won't sideline you and take you 111 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: out of the workforce the way that maybe an unintended 112 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: or unhealthy pregnancy would. Yeah. And when it comes to 113 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: this issue freedom of religion, which is something that a 114 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: lot of people bring up as well, because obviously that 115 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: is a right that needs to be protected, that there's 116 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: a fundamental foundation of the u s Constitution. But as 117 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: Ginsburg put it so well, and as she she sort 118 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: of echoed this in the interview what she wrote in 119 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: the Descent about how one has the freedom to move 120 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: one's arm until it hits the other fellows knows, And 121 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: it's the same way with speech, and it's the same 122 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: way with religion. You can exercise your right freely until 123 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: it's affecting other people who don't share your views. And 124 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: she goes on to talk about how is she this 125 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: is nothing against her, you know, thinking that hobby the 126 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: owners of hobby Lobby shouldn't believe what they believe. She said, 127 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: They're free to believe what they want to. However, you 128 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: have no constitutional right to then voice that belief on 129 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: the women who work for you. So a lot of 130 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: a lot of young women I think our age essentially 131 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: did the Internet version of giving her a prolonged standing ovation. 132 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: Because hearing that from someone with such power, I think 133 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: it was very empowering for us to hear about. I 134 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: think that's a big reason why this episode has been 135 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: so highly requested. And I'll tell you Caroline that simply 136 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: spending a weekend reading all about her for this podcast 137 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: was so inspiring because I was not aware. Obviously I 138 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: was aware of, you know, work that she's done on 139 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, but I was not aware of the 140 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: extent of her legacy and what she considers her legacy 141 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: to be someone who has fought for her entire career 142 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: for the rights of women. Yeah, and so when you 143 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: have things like the notorious RBG t shirts for instance, 144 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: I mean people who created that and other stuff like 145 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: stickers that they posted all around d C and everything. 146 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: These people worshiped her before this hobby lobby case even 147 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: came around because of her amazing legacy. So her descents 148 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: in two cases Fisher versus University of Texas, which weakened 149 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: affirmative action laws and Shelby County versus Holder, which weakened 150 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act, led to n y U law 151 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: students Shanna nis Nik creating that notorious RBG tumbler that 152 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you have already been to, 153 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: and Amina to Sao and Frank Chi creating the can't 154 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: spell Truth without Ruth stickers that ended up getting posted 155 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: all over d C. And what's so awesome is at 156 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is aware of this stuff. She was 157 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: somebody walked up to her in a restaurant and showed 158 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: her the stickers, and she has she had to ask 159 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: her staff like, what is this notorious business? And they 160 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: explained that, I mean, you know, you're talking about notorious 161 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: b I G. Who's this large African American man with 162 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: a large presence and it's being applied to teeny tiny 163 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a rapper. I mean, that's the thing. 164 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: It's like gangster rapper. And you have this like ty 165 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: little Jewish woman who weighs like as much as a 166 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: handful of pebbles, but she's so powerful. And there is 167 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: this incredibly charming part of that Katie Kirk interview where 168 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: Kirk asks her about the notorious RBG stuff, and she's 169 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: clearly tickled and at one point says, there is nothing 170 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: on the website that is not both pleasing and humorous 171 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: and in this massive grin, so she she knows she's 172 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: a rock star. And there was an article in The 173 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: New Republic that I posted a while back now on 174 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: the stuff I've Never Told You Facebook page about this 175 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: notorious RBG like Internet fame focus on Ruth Bader Ginsburg. 176 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: And then you also have sort of in the same 177 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: vein the text with Hillary Clinton where she's wearing sunglasses 178 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: and it's this very funny meme and also the Internet 179 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: fame that broke out around uh Texas politician Wendy Davis. 180 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: And it's important because it's essentially millennial women and men 181 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: providing this I don't know, like new form of coolness 182 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: to these radically powerful women who for a long time, 183 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: uh or maybe not treated as such awesome rock stars 184 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: by young people. Yeah. I mean generally society's view of 185 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: powerful women is not necessarily an overwhelmingly positive one. But 186 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: then you do have these young whipper snappers. I'm thirty, 187 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: I can say that. I mean this this younger generation 188 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: of like more liberal feminist individuals coming up who were like, 189 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: right on, you're a strong, powerful woman, and you're sticking 190 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: up for other people's rights, and we're going to celebrate 191 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: you the only way we knew how, which is on 192 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: the internet, which means a bajillion other people can celebrate 193 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: with us. Yeah. And it's not only just a celebration 194 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: but also an acknowledgement of these women as role models. 195 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: And I think it's it's exciting. Um. And one other 196 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: word about the descents, because it has been Ruth Bader 197 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: Ginsburg's descents, particularly in Supreme Court season, that propelled her 198 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: internet fame. Just for a note, she read from the 199 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: bench her descents five times last year, which is pretty 200 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: much unprecedented for a justice. She's fired up and she's 201 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: going to put on her fierce Game of Thrones esque 202 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: Jabou and read her descent. You can't stop Ruth. You 203 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: can't stop Ruth, cannot stop Ruth. So who though is Ruth? 204 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: Who is the real notorious RBG Caroline. Yeah, because you 205 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: can tell in our voices that we are glowing talking 206 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: about her because she is so amazing. Well, so what 207 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: made her that way? And we will certainly look into 208 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: that in just a moment. So. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was 209 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: born Ruth Joan Bader in Brooklyn during the Great Depression, 210 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: and she told makers that when she was growing up, 211 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: her mother gave her two important pieces of advice. One, 212 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: be a lady, I don't be distracted by anger or resentment. 213 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: They only stap energy and waste time, which I think 214 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: she clearly has taken to heart. And to be independent. 215 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: She said she hoped I would meet Prince Charming, but 216 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: she stressed the importance of being able to make it 217 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: on my own. Yeah. Well, so I think she definitely 218 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: took these pieces of advice to heart. She ended up 219 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: going to Cornell where she met future husband Marty Ginsburg. 220 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: She was seventeen, he was eighteen. They married in nineteen 221 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: fifty four, right after she graduated, and he himself would 222 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: become a very accomplished lawyer. And listening to listening to 223 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: her talk about Marty is like I people just hoped 224 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: to find that kind of life partner. She said that 225 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: what she really appreciated about him was that he really 226 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: cared about what I thought. And she said, and this 227 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: during a time when most men hoped that women didn't 228 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: have a brain. Now, her family wanted her to marry Marty. 229 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: That's really fine, but just be a high school teacher. 230 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: And they were kind of disappointed when she decided to 231 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: pursue law, but at the same time, they were relieved 232 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: that she was at least married. Yeah, And they said, hey, 233 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: at least she has a husband whole supporter, and when 234 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: she goes off on this crazy adventure, well, it would 235 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: be a crazy adventure because when she got into Harvard Law, 236 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: where Marty also ended up going with her, she was 237 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: one of nine women in a class of more than 238 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: five hundred. Yeah. And she admitted to makers also that 239 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: she definitely felt the pressure all eyes on you, and 240 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: she had this feeling that if you failed, if you 241 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: answered a question wrong, if you didn't do something up 242 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: to standard, you were failing your entire sex. She definitely 243 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: had that pressure writing on top of her. But during 244 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: this time she wasn't just another law student. She was 245 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: also a mom of fourteen month old Jane, So on 246 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: top of her coursework and caring for the kiddo, Ruth 247 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: also ended up taking Marty's classes and writing his papers 248 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: for him because he was being treated for testicular cancer. 249 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: And so she says it was during this time in 250 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: her life that she realized how little sleep she could 251 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: get by on and how much she could stretch her 252 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: day out because she had to go to class, you know, 253 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: come home, take care of the baby, do Marty's work, 254 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: and then do her own work when she slept eight 255 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: or used the bathroom. I have no idea. Yeah, just 256 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: reading about that made me tired. Yeah. And then she 257 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: graduated law school from Columbia, not Harvard, because even though 258 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: she was ranked first in her class at Harvard Law, 259 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: the dean at the time just refused to grant her 260 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: a degree, seeing how she was a woman and even 261 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: though she had done her coursework there. But thankfully Columbia 262 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: accepted her and graduated her. And when it came time 263 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: for jobs, she received no offers. The same thing happened 264 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who was the 265 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: first female justice on the Supreme Court. And at one 266 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: point she even had to explain to it might have 267 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: been that dean at Harvard or a professor at Harvard, 268 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: how she was going to justify taking a job that 269 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: should be going to a man at a law firm. 270 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: So that was the climate when she got out of 271 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: law school. Yeah, and because she couldn't find a job, 272 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: she ended up being a law professor amid a bunch 273 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: of other things that she was doing at the time. 274 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: And we will definitely talk about this in just a 275 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: second when we look at her legal career. Um she 276 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: taught at Rutgers and received tenure there in nineteen sixty nine. 277 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: But more recently in her personal life, she has experienced 278 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: a lot of health problems that have led a lot 279 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: of people to continue to question this poor woman about 280 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: when she's going to retire. Just leave her alone already. 281 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, in n was treated for colon cancer, and 282 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine she underwent surgery for pancreatic cancer. 283 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: But the woman never missed a single oral argument during 284 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: those periods. She always made sure to get her treatments 285 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: on a Friday, so she had the weekend to recover 286 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: her so she could be back on the bench on Monday. 287 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: And who advised her to do that, standard O'Connor. That's right, 288 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: because she did the same thing. Yep. And when her husband, 289 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: Marty died in two thousand and ten, Ruth Peter Ginsburg 290 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: was on the bench the next day to hear arguments 291 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: because quote, that's what he would have wanted. So there's 292 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: really no stopping Ruth. It's true. And when you look 293 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: at her career, even before she is appointed to the 294 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, it is nothing short of incredible. And if 295 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: you are a woman listening to this podcast, pay attention 296 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: because Ruth Peter Ginsburg has done a whole lot for you. Yeah. 297 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: And I thought that um New Yorker writer Jeffrey Tubbins 298 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: profile of her was so fascinating, so enlightening. It really 299 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: hit home how just how brilliant and accomplished she is. 300 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: She is the current courts most accomplished litigator, and Tubin 301 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: points out that part of her success is that Ginsberg 302 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: had quote exquisite timing. She brought women's rights cases at 303 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: precisely the moment the Supreme Court was willing to decide 304 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: them in her favor. And as we'll talk about, she 305 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: also had a very strict m O that she pursued 306 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: as far as bringing these cases because she didn't believe 307 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: in trying to set up all the dominoes at once 308 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: and knocked them all down at once. She believed in 309 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: going after all of these stereotypes about women that were 310 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: written into law, that were actual policy, and just knocking 311 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: them down one by one. And one of the ways 312 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: that she was able to do that too was by 313 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: presenting cases that demonstrated not necessarily how gender discrimination negatively 314 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: impacts women, but how negatively impacts men. Because if you 315 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: were bringing these cases before a Supreme Court at the 316 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: time filled with all male justices, then you need to 317 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: get inside their heads some so that they can relate 318 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: more closely to that. And that was another strategy that 319 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: she used that made her so successful in front of 320 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: the court. And in the nineteen sixties, this was the 321 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: Supreme Court uh the Warren Court, and she talked about 322 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: how during the era of the Warren Court, discrimination against 323 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: women was seen as more of a protective thing. So 324 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: there was this case where, um, there was a discrimination 325 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: case involving allowing women to be on jerry's because at 326 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: the time men had to go for jerry duty, but 327 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: it was only I think it was just optional for women. 328 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: And there was a case involving I think a wife 329 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: being murdered by a husband. There was a history of 330 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: domestic violence, and the guy ended up getting off partially 331 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: because there was an all male jury. And so she 332 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: was talking about how, you know, the first thing they 333 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: had to do was dismantle these sort of paternalistic and 334 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: protective ideas that were essentially it's discrimination just under the 335 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: guise of something that's actually doing women a favor. Well, 336 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: you don't. You don't have to be on a jury 337 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: and hear all those gory details if you don't want 338 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: to be right. And it's interesting to hear her take 339 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: on the court, the warr In court of the sixties, 340 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: and how she then echoes that when she talks about 341 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: her male colleagues in the hobby lobby case having a 342 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: blind spot, because she says that, I don't think and 343 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: this is the warr In court, I don't think they 344 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: regarded discrimination against women as discrimination at all. These are 345 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: people who thought they were good fathers. They were good 346 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: husbands and they didn't understand barriers that women faced as discriminatory, 347 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: and so just talking about how important, like Christan said, 348 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: it was to dismantle all of those preconceived notions. So 349 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties, she is working as the associate 350 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: director of the Columbia Law School Project on International Procedure, 351 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: which sends her to Sweden. So she's like, oh, what 352 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: am I gonna do. I'm just gonna teach myself Swedish 353 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: and so she did, big deal. So she then travels 354 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: to Sweden learns all about their legal system while she's 355 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: working with Swedish University's faculty and writing a book about 356 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: their legal system. And this was that this was highly 357 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: influential period for her because this is what really got 358 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: her thinking about the intersection and importance of women in 359 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: the law. So in Sweden, she was at the University 360 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: of Lundon. She noted to her interviewer that of the 361 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: school's students were women versus four percent of law students 362 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: in the US. During this time, Also, she observed a 363 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: core proceeding where the judge was an eight months pregnant lady. 364 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess as opposed to an eight months 365 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: pregnant man. And it wasn't weird, it wasn't a thing. 366 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: It was just life. It was just a judge who cares. 367 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: It was just Sweden. It was just Sweden. And also 368 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: at this time, an Arizona woman was in the news 369 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: a lot for traveling to Sweden for an abortion after 370 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: she had taken the lidamide in the U s which 371 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: is known to cause a lot of terrible birth effects. 372 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: And then Bader Ginsburg read Simone de Beauvoirs Second Sex, 373 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: and she says that was an eye opener. Maybe the 374 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: law can catch up to changes in society. Yeah, it's 375 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: this complete, almost like the perfect storm of all these 376 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: things going on around her and all the experiences that 377 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: she had faced. Even when it came to her working 378 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: at Columbia Law School, she completely acknowledges that that was 379 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: a byproduct of affirmative actions starting to take place, of 380 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: people saying, okay, you top tier schools, do you have 381 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: a woman. Do you have a woman? Do you have 382 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: your woman? And she was like, I'll be a woman. 383 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: I'll be someone's woman. Take me um. And so in 384 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: the seventies she's still a professor. She's also a litigator, 385 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: and she is arguing several of the most important women's 386 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: rights cases in the Supreme Court's history. And I believe 387 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: she went before the Court five times one four of 388 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: her cases, which, in case you aren't great with statistics, 389 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: that's a really good record. And she worked to persuade 390 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: the justices at the time that the Constitution was not dead. 391 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: This is really significant. So this idea of a living constitution, 392 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: in other words, that what the framers are are, like 393 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: constitutional framers wrote, is something that can evolve alongside society. Yeah, 394 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: And one of her big cases was in nineteen seventy one, 395 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: it was Read versus Read. She succeeded in persuading the 396 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: justices that a clause in the Fourteenth Amendment applied not 397 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: just to race, but also to sex. And it's the 398 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: clauset says no state shall deny to any person within 399 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. And building 400 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: off of that success at early success, like I said earlier, 401 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: she made an effort to slowly and steadily go after 402 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: these government policies that descrimin needed based on sex, and 403 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: a few significant milestones in the seventies, she co founded 404 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: the Women's Rights Law Reporter, the first law journal in 405 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: the US devoted to gender equality issues. That was in 406 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. In nineteen seventy two, she became the first 407 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: tenured woman at Columbia Law School. Like I said, she 408 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: was like, I'll be your woman here. Let let it 409 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: be me. And she also co founded the Women's Rights 410 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: Project at the a c. L U to take on 411 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: issues of gender discrimination. And then in nineteen seventy four 412 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: she co authored the very first textbook on sex discrimination law. 413 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: This woman literally wrote the book on sex discrimination, gender discrimination, 414 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: women's rights in the legal context in the United States. Yeah, 415 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: and so as far as uprooting gender discrimination, you know, 416 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: Kristen mentioned earlier that Banner Ginsburg thought it was very 417 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: important to not just show how women were being hurt 418 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: by gender discrimination, but to show that men, especially fathers, 419 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: were also being hurt too. In nine five, she argued 420 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: a sex discrimination case on a man's behalf, Stephen Weisenfeld, 421 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: who was a widower who was not allowed to collect 422 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: Social Security benefits after his wife had died. Now, these 423 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: are benefits that if Steven had died, his wife would 424 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: have been able to go to the office collect these benefits. 425 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: You know, have money to support her and the child. 426 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: Why it doesn't make any sense. Why would the man 427 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: not be allowed to collect benefits when his wife had 428 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: died because the wife wasn't the breadwinner? Caroline right, And 429 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: so Bader Ginsburg is talking about this stereotype that had 430 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: been written into law, the one she wanted to undo 431 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: in this case was the idea of man as breadwinner, 432 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: woman as caretaker. The the idea that was etched in 433 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: stone at the time that it couldn't be the other 434 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: way around. And even if a man was a breadwinner, 435 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: why would he ever want to collect benefits in the 436 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: wake of his spouse's death. And she won, of course, 437 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: because she is the notorious RBG has always been as 438 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: all she's pretty much has always been. And so Jimmy 439 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: Carter President, Jimmy Carter peanut farmer, uh in nineteen eighty 440 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: he recognized that there was a notorious RBG in his 441 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: midst and so he appointed her to the DC Circuit Court. 442 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: But she did not use her position. It's often noted 443 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: to be some kind of liberal fire brand. Uh. There 444 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: there was a Columbia Law School professor Jamal Green who 445 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: said she fundamentally does not believe that large scale social 446 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: change should come from the courts, which is notable because 447 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: we often here today, especially with these kinds of cases 448 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: such as the hobby Lobby decision coming out about activist judges, 449 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: and while Ruth Bader Ginsburg would probably be seen at 450 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: by conservatives as one of those activist judges, that is 451 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: fundamentally not the way she sees the function of the court. Yeah, 452 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: it's not her style. She did actually take issue with 453 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: roe versus Wade. I was. I knew nothing about this. 454 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: I was. I was pretty surprised to read it. But 455 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: it makes sense when you look at her style. She 456 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: thought that Roe versus Wade sort of bulldozed the conversation. 457 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: She wanted to see the abortion debate, the abortion legislation, 458 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: the abortion court decisions go the way that her sex 459 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: discrimination cases did, take it down one at a time. Basically, 460 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: open a dialogue with legislators. Don't tell them, here's what 461 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: your deal is, guys. You open that dialogue to say, 462 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: here's a ruling, go forth and make it right. Well, 463 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: and that is probably why you see the Court handling 464 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: gay marriage and the United States in the way that 465 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: it is. It's taking it more on a. I mean, 466 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: it was able to take care of the federal aspect 467 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: of gay marriage in terms of taking out that clause 468 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: in Doma, but when it comes to the state by 469 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: state gay marriage laws, they want to leave it for 470 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: now at least up to the states. And she talks 471 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: about how with o versus Wade, what it did was 472 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: its focused on Texas, which had the most intense, surprise 473 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: UH anti abortion laws in the country at the time, 474 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: and she said that by sort of wrapping the whole 475 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: issue of legalized abortion up into one decision, that actually 476 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: gave anti abortion activists a single target to unify around 477 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: and actually empowered them in a way to you know, 478 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: to to make their campaign even more Um, I don't 479 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: know even more powerful what you could say, because what 480 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: are we seeing right now? We're seeing Roe v. Wade 481 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: being eroded? Guess what, state by state? And then in 482 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: n three, RBG is appointed to the Supreme Court by 483 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: President Bill Clinton. She becomes the second woman and the 484 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: first Jewish woman to sit on the bench. Yeah, she 485 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: joined Sandard O'Connor, who had been the lone woman on 486 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: the court since Reagan appointed her in N one. And 487 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: then when Sandard O'Connor stepped down. She retired from the 488 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: court in order to care for her husband. In two 489 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: thousand six, she was replaced by Samuel Alito, and ripe 490 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: to Ginsburg was a little bummed out by it, Let's 491 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: be honest, because Alito way more conservative than Sandrad O'Connor. Well, so, 492 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: then in the mid to late two thousand's, um, we 493 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: see Ginsburg like really becoming this this four I mean, 494 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: not that she wasn't a force already, but we see 495 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: her passion clearly in in a few specific cases. Well, 496 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: she starts dissenting, she becomes what do you call her? 497 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: The Queen of descent, the grand Dame of descent. Um. 498 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: If anyone wants to put that on a T shirt, 499 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: I'll take it. Um. So there are two cases in 500 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: two thousand seven that are super big and important, she 501 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: wrote a beautiful descent in Gonzala versus Carhart, which is 502 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: the case where the court upheld the federal ban on 503 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: part partial birth abortions with no provisions for a mother's 504 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: life being endangered. So, writing for the majority, Justice Kennedy wrote, 505 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: while we find no reliable data to measure the phenomenon, 506 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: it seems unexceptionable to conclude, some women come to regret 507 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: their choice to abort the infant life they once created 508 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: and sustained. And then I picture Ginsburg like flaming up 509 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: like a phoenix from the fire and writing a dissent, 510 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: and she says that Kennedy invoked an anti abortion chibalist, 511 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: for which it concededly has no reliable evidence. Women who 512 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: have abortions come to regret their choices and consequently suffer 513 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: from quote severe depression and loss of self esteem. This 514 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: way of thinking reflects ancient notions about women's place in 515 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: the family and under the constitution, ideas that have long 516 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: since been discredited. Well, and who helped discredit those ideas 517 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: she did? She did so her The fact that she 518 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: writes these powerful descents makes so much sense what you 519 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: once you see her legal legacy leading up to that, 520 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: and in that descent to she pointed out that the 521 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: protection of reproductive rights is not about some quote vague 522 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: or generalized notion of privacy, but rather about quote a 523 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: woman's autonomy to decide for herself her life's course and 524 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: thus enjoy equal citizenship stature. And that right there goes 525 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: right back to what she was talking about to Katie 526 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: Kirk about the importance of birth control access in terms 527 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: of a woman controlling her own destiny. That's absolutely right. 528 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: And so also in two thousand seven you get the 529 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: Lily lad Better case being thrown out, and don't worry, 530 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: we'll explain Ginsburg writing another slow dunk descent. So basically, 531 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: long stray short, Lily lead Better had been working for 532 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: a good year. She had climbed up the ladder to 533 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: become a manager. Found out after she retired that she 534 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: the whole time had been making a lot less than 535 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: her male counterparts, including men not only on her own level, 536 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: but even men below her, were making more. She sues 537 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: and a jury awards her nearly four million dollars. Awesome, okay, 538 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: but Goodyear appealed and the case made it all the 539 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: way up to the Supreme Court, who then throws it out. 540 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: Justice Alito, writing the opinion for the court, basically said 541 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: that Leadbetter had waited too long and that claims for 542 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: pay discrimination had to be brought within a hundred eighty 543 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: days of the violation, which would have been a little 544 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: crazy when you think about it, because that means she 545 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: would have had to appeal each and every paycheck. So 546 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: in her descent, Ginsburg said, how could she have appealed 547 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: the stuff when she didn't even know? She said, the 548 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: court's insistence on immediate contest overlooks common characteristics of pay discrimination. 549 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: And this goes back to a or forward, I guess 550 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: to a conversation that I feel like has been going 551 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: on a lot lately, which is, you know, the conversation 552 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,959 Speaker 1: of do you be polite and not talk with your 553 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: coworkers about how much you make? Because that being polite 554 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: means that a lot of women don't realize that they're 555 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,479 Speaker 1: making a lot less than their male counterparts. And so 556 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: Ginsburg and this is another descent that she read from 557 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: the bench, meaning that she was really pod She basically 558 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: invited Congress to overturn her colleagues decision, which is super 559 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: powerful because so she she is not known for like 560 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 1: fiery or flowery language in her descents that she writes, 561 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: So when she read her descent from the bench, she 562 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: also made it more colloquial so that it could get 563 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: picked up by legislators and by people on the internet 564 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: and by news outlets so they could easily turn it 565 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: into sound bites and spread it. And it spread like 566 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: wildfire Girl. She invited Congress to overturn the decision, putting 567 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: it front and center in the media. And one of 568 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: the first things that Barack Obama did when he became 569 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: president was to sign a bill into law over ruling 570 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: the lad Better case. And so then we get the 571 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: Lily Lead Better Fair Pay Act of two thousand nine. 572 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: Bamp dropped the mic notorious. So right now, these dissents 573 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: that she has been writing and notably reading from the 574 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: bench are crucial because it's not just an exercise in 575 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: a Supreme Court justice grabbing the mic and saying, well, 576 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: this is why I disagree with you. But actually that 577 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,959 Speaker 1: is a process of law making, because there have been 578 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: cases and she thinks there will be more cases where 579 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: decisions are overturned and enacted in favor of the dissenting opinion. So, 580 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: when she's talking to Katie Kuric about the Hobby Lobby 581 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: decision and also Citizens United, which is a very closely 582 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: aligned decision sort of teed up for Hobby Lobby, which 583 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: is the Supreme Court decision that essentially rendered you know, 584 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: corporations being treated as people. She thinks that eventually at 585 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: least Hobby Lobby will be overturned. That in the future, 586 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: the descent that she writes will get its do it 587 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: will get its its day in court. And I mean, clearly, 588 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: we've established that she is all about women's right, it's 589 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: all about reproductive choice, all about feminism, etcetera. And she 590 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: thinks though that that all of this is so important 591 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: specifically not just because it affects women, but it's also 592 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: because it affects poor women. In particular, she has said 593 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: when it comes to ro versus Wade and now birth 594 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: control access are e hobby lobby quote, we have a 595 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: policy that affects only poor women and it can never 596 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: be otherwise. And I don't know why this hasn't been 597 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: said more often. The basic thing is that the government 598 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: has no business making that choice for a woman. And 599 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: she goes on to say, I think the side that 600 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: wants to take the choice away from women and give 601 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: it to the state, they're fighting a losing battle time 602 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: is on the side of change. Well, the question, though 603 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: Ruth pitter Ginsberg is eighty one years old, the question is, well, 604 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: who is going to be the agent of that change. 605 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: It is not going to be Chief Justice John Roberts 606 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 1: and Alito and Scalia, who I really enjoyed the fact 607 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: that Scalia and Druth Pittter Ginsberg actually pretty close. Yeah, Trivia, 608 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: Ruth and Marty would spend every New Year's Eve with 609 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: Scalia and his wife, and they often went to the 610 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: opera together. Yeah. So because I mean she thinks, like, 611 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, this is business. Obviously, it's okay if you disagree. Um, 612 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 1: and and they both have tremendous respect for each other. 613 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: But who is it going to be? I mean, the 614 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 1: women on the court is very important because of that 615 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: issue that she talked about in the beginning of uh 616 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: that we mentioned in the beginning about perspective and male 617 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: justice is possibly sometimes having that blind spot. Yeah, and 618 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: I mean she she talks like, part of the reason 619 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: it's so critical for women to be at the table, 620 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, in the Supreme Court is the same reason 621 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: that it's important for women to be at any table, 622 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: is that if you lose those other perspectives, you lose 623 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: a lot. You lose a lot more than just a 624 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: woman talking, You lose an entire lifetime of experience, especially 625 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: from someone's amazing and experienced as Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Well, 626 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: and on the plus side, when it comes to the court. 627 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: Elena Kagan is not only the newest justice, but she's 628 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: also the youngest justice. She'll be there for a while 629 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: along with Sony, said a mayor. But now the big 630 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: question when it comes to Ruth beder Ginsburg, now that 631 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 1: we love her so much, everyone's asking her to leave. 632 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? Yeah? And I I I think you 633 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: should stop asking people when they're going to retire um 634 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: and leave her alone. But I mean, she's handling it 635 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: so graciously. She's like, look, guys, I'm fine. I'm gonna 636 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: stick around until i just can't do it anymore and 637 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: then I'll stop. But I mean, there is a strategy 638 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: behind the pressure being put on her to leave now 639 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: while there is a Democrat in office, because you know 640 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: then it will be Obama selecting her successor. So people 641 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: are saying, you know what, Ruth, go ahead and you 642 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: make an exit. That way, we will be guaranteed to 643 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: have another liberal justice in your place, because if the 644 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: next president is a Republican a lot more conservative, there 645 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: bore probably tap a conservative replacement should she leave during 646 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: that term, and then the court would be overwhelmingly conservative, 647 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: even with Kennedy's swing vote yes. And I mean I 648 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: can I can see the logic in a lot of 649 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: these liberal commentators. Point. I get it. But when you 650 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: think about when you go back to Ruth Bader Ginsburg 651 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: the lawyer, her style, her style is very slow, but 652 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: steady wins the race. It's not about installing activist judges 653 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: and thinking only about the short term and thinking only 654 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: about oh no, we need OBAMAA to appoint a liberal 655 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: justice so that we can continue to have this balance 656 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: on the court or whatever. It's much more the long view. 657 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: And uh, Lynda Greenhouse, who is a Yale Law School 658 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: fellow and former New York Times Supreme Court correspondent, talks 659 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 1: about this long view of history that she imagines Ruth 660 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg holds. Uh. She says, quote, she has to 661 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: believe that justice will win out in the end, or 662 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: that if it doesn't, her departure at one point or 663 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: another couldn't be the major factor. And Greenhouse goes on 664 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: to say, I think this, and I bet Ginsburg does too, 665 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: that really it should be up to legislators to legislate. 666 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: You shouldn't have a court job. It is to legislate 667 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: every single aspect of our lives. Vader Ginsburg is very 668 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: in favor of having that two way street, of being 669 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: like we're going to rule on something and now society 670 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: take it, take it from there. I also wonder too, 671 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: if some of this, you know, people watching their watches, 672 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: keeping out on their watches to see like, okay, when Ruth, 673 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: when are you gonna leave? When are you gonna leave? Gale. 674 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 1: It's partially because she is rather small, and she speaks 675 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: rather slowly, and she her staffers even have a trick 676 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: where if she says something or they ask her a question, 677 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,959 Speaker 1: you wait, you count to like two or three Mississippi, 678 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: because she usually just takes a minute naturally to answer you. 679 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 1: So some see that as a sign of her frailty. 680 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: But in fact, she still writes incredibly fast. She's one 681 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: of the fastest writers and responders still on the court. Well, 682 00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: she had to be if she was up at two 683 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: am writing her husband's papers in law school. Right. Well, 684 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: but I thought she told the cutest story because she 685 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: is like this woman is hyper aware of what's going 686 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: on around her. It's not like she's in some bubble 687 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: and she was talking, she was commenting on the view 688 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: like she she took too long to stand up from 689 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: the bench one time, and people were like, oh, no, 690 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: she's so old and frail. And she was like, actually, 691 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: do you want to talk about, you know, men not 692 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 1: feeling comfortable kicking off their shoes around women. I kick 693 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: off my shoes under the bench, and she's like one 694 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,720 Speaker 1: kind of got away from me, and so I couldn't 695 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: stand up fast enough because I couldn't find it with 696 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: my foot. I mean, God, Dad, I just love her. 697 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: I just I think this view that Greenhouse Yalaw Professor 698 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: Greenhouse pointed out is so perfect as far as like 699 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is bigger. Justice in the United States 700 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: is bigger than one person on the court. And I 701 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: do subscribe to Ginsberg's thought that hey, things, things will 702 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,439 Speaker 1: work out. Time is on our side. I certainly hope, So, 703 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,240 Speaker 1: I certainly hope. So yeah, I am. I am choosing 704 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: to be optimistic. Well, if anything, it makes me really 705 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: happy that we have a rock star in an eight 706 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: year old Supreme Court justice, woman who worked for her 707 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: entire life tirelessly legally advocating for the rights of women. 708 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: That's amazing. That to me says that you know, time 709 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: maybe is on our side. If if that's our celebrity 710 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: right now. If that's the woman we're putting on t shirts, 711 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: then the women you know growing up now we'll have 712 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,879 Speaker 1: a brighter future. Agreed. So I hope that this satisfied 713 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: all of the requests that we've gotten recently for this episode, 714 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: and we now want to hear your thoughts on the 715 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: notorious r b G send them our way. Mom Stuff 716 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com is our email address. 717 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: Have any of you met her out of curiosity, just 718 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: let us know you can email us. You can also 719 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast and also messages on Facebook. 720 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with 721 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: you right now. Will I have an email here from 722 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 1: Stacy Regarding best friend, She says, I thought i'd email 723 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: as I like possibly everyone feel. My relationship with my 724 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: VFF is a little unique. What actually makes our friendships 725 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: as special and so important to the both of us 726 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: is that we are in the same stage in our 727 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: lives and we have the same priorities in our life. 728 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 1: We both decided to leave little Old New Zealand to 729 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: seek greener pastures, her to l a myself to Taiwan. 730 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: Within two weeks of each other. We were going through 731 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: the exact same transitional issues at the same time, and 732 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: we're absolutely vital to each other in dealing with homesickness, culture, 733 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: shock and decision and the crippling self down that comes 734 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: with the job hunt. We don't have our families here 735 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: with us, and even if we did, they wouldn't understand 736 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: what we were going through in the way that we 737 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: need them to. Instead, we have each other, and thank 738 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 1: God for modern technology. I talked to the BFF every 739 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: day about every major and trivial thing in my life. 740 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: There may be sixty miles between us, but we've made 741 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: it seem like nothing. In fact, look at this. The 742 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 1: two of us are writing a book together. It's called 743 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: My Best Friend Is Better Than Yours and Other Truths. 744 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: She says, keep doing what you're doing. Living in an 745 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 1: Asian country and the weekly dose of English discussion is 746 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: always a welcome relief. So thank you, Stacy, and I've 747 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: got one here from William. He rights Good evening, ladies. 748 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of the show and I'm hoping 749 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: for some help. I will be running the Detroit Marathon 750 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: this year with the Hope Water Project. Our goal is 751 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 1: to drill wells for the Potoc tribe in Kenya, and 752 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: they are forgotten people first and foremost. They need a 753 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: reliable source of clean water. How is this the women's issue? Well, 754 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: the women and children of the po talk walk for 755 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: miles daily in search of any water source. Typically they 756 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: have to share it with animals and you can only 757 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: imagine the filth and disease that comes with it. By 758 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: drilling wells, we were able to provide the most valuable 759 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,360 Speaker 1: of resources, time, time to be industrious, time to educate 760 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: the youth, and time to build a community. To remove 761 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: these people from the grips of poverty. Provides the funds 762 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: for clean water for one person, and I would love 763 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: to have participation from every state of the Union. If 764 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: the United States is a country in which we are 765 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: able to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, I want 766 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: to provide these bootstraps on the other side of the world. 767 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: I don't know people in all fifty states, and by 768 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: the nature of your business, you do be eternally grateful 769 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: if you could promote this for me. And I'm not 770 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: above bribery. I think there might be a case of 771 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: bills too hard, A dale with your name's on us. 772 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: If you can help me out things. So everybody go 773 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: check out the Hope Water Project and support William who 774 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: is running in the Detroit Marathon this year to help 775 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,280 Speaker 1: fund that, which sounds like a fantastic initiative. So thanks 776 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: to William, and thanks to everybody who's written to us. 777 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,279 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 778 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: email address, and if you want to read along with 779 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 1: all of the fantastic sources that we've found about the 780 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: notorious RBG, well you can find that podcast, as well 781 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: as all of our other podcasts and sources, well as 782 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: all of our blogs and videos over its Stuff I've 783 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com for more on this and 784 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot 785 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: com