WEBVTT - How the Rules of War Work 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.479 from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.840 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is always Charles W. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:25.479 Chuck Bryant Party and we're recording this is stuff you 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:31.880 should know the aggressive version. Hey dude, Hey, dude, how 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.559 are you? I'm tired. Hey, We're almost out of here. Man, 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.720 I'm not. Let's wrap this puppy up. I'm not almost 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:40.320 out of here. This is just like the middle of 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.519 my day. You're working to like ten, and then you 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:48.440 working Saturday. I'm working Sunday, So are you, Poul? That's right? Um, Chuck? Yes, Josh. 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.199 Do you remember when we talked about brainwashing? We did 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.120 a brainwashing one, right, Yeah? I enjoyed that one. I 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.760 did too. Do you remember we talked about the Koreans 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:06.080 brainwash American Peo dotes that's against the rules the rules 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.679 of what the rules of war. I have more examples. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.920 Do you have you ever heard of the dak How massacre, 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.959 the Dacha? Yes, yeah, you have the Dacha massacre. Yes 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.160 you have, well, I mean you've you secretly told me, 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.760 have you seen well, you've seen Shutter Island, right, Yeah. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:27.680 I didn't realize it was a connection there. Yeah, the 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.200 flashbacks where Leonardo DiCaprio is like in the army and 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:35.200 they're at this concentration camp and they're shooting the German guards. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:41.080 That actually happened, Yes, at Dachau. The American liberators who 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.399 came like came and saw this and like, we're apparently 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.680 so overwhelmed by it that they lined up the s 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:51.200 S officers against the wall, seventy five of them and 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:55.360 shot him. I guess I didn't know about it then. Yeah, so, um, 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.800 it didn't come out until two do one actually that 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.880 this actually happened. It was covered up, ignored, but it 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.480 was against the rules. I can't do that, ABU great, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.320 remember that one. Yeah, that's been the news that was 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.480 against like six or seven different rules, and all of 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.600 these are there against the rules of war. It's actually 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.600 kind of to me a triumph of the human spirit 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.600 to know that there we've tried to figure out how 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:30.040 to create structure insanity in a chaotic and insane institution. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.799 That's why do we look at it? What's another way, Well, 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.239 what I was the most struck with was that how 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.680 messed up it is that you have to keep revisiting 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.359 this over the years because all of these rules that 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.400 are in here are there because someone tried to do 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.920 something awful to someone else, and that they said you 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.160 can't do that in war, right, And so then then 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.000 they said, oh, well, then let's think of something else 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:52.840 awful we can do, and then they said, well, you 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.120 can't do that now either. Well. In this article that 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.800 Julia Layton wrote how the Rules of War work, she 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.000 makes the point that as the technology of war progresses, 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.560 it usually means that we're going to we are figuring 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.680 out more horrible ways to inflict damage on one another. 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.519 And so as that happens as technology progresses, the people 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.240 who oversee the rules of war are trying to come 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.959 up with new ways to stem that progression. Right. But yeah, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.600 that that's a little mopier way of looking at it 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.440 than mine. That's weird because you're usually the moupier one. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.000 Usually interesting, Chuck, Let's talk about the rules of war. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.679 Where did they come from? How long have they been around? Well, 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.560 they've been around for a long time, but prior to 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:40.920 the nineteenth century, they were established per battle and per 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.720 countries participating in that battle, and that was where they 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.480 ended there, like for this skirmish where you can do this, 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.040 this and this, but you can't do this, this and this. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.680 Once that skirmish was over, or once that war was over, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.040 then they would say, all right, for forget all that then, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:56.840 and let's just we'll make up a new set of 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.160 rules if we fight again. Yeah, And then next time 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.840 they were like, no, was scalping. That was messed up 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:05.440 last time, do not scalp in this one. Finally, at 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.080 some point, uh, well, actually we know exactly the point. Um. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.280 In eighteen fifty nine, a guy named Henry de Nant, 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.840 who went on to found the Red Cross UM and 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.880 was one of the was the co recipient of the 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:24.440 first Nobel Prize. I understand, huh. Um came upon a 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:29.200 battlefield after the Battle of Salaferno in Italy in eighteen 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:35.880 fifty nine. That's German and Italian in one podcast. Um. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.320 He came upon this battlefield, I guess right after the 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.760 battle that happened, and there were all these dying wounded 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.400 soldiers laying around, and he he gathered up the villagers 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.480 around the countryside and said, we have to treat these 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:52.080 people and treat everybody both sides because we're human beings 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.119 and that's what we do. That's one of the things 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.920 that the Red Cross still does today in wars. Their 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.640 neutral party, not on either side, the Red Cross and 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.599 the Red Crescent um and they treat everybody regardless of 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.880 um what side they're on. Sure, right, Um, So that 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.120 happened in eighteen fifty nine. It gave birth to the 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.359 Red Cross, and it gave birth to the first Geneva Convention, right, yes. 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.480 And I think I told you at some point we 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.240 were chatting about this that the whole convention aspect of 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.840 it kind of cracks me up a little bit because 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.839 I always picture like a bunch of world leaders with 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.000 their name tags. Hi, my name is kaiserville Helm mulling 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:33.520 about some Hilton conference room. Imagine that's how it went out. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.279 But uh, with the first Geneva Convention, is uh when 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.440 they in eighteen sixty four, did you already say that 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:45.520 they started becoming an international thing where it crossed the boundaries, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:50.159 that crossed the time frames and there were solid rules 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.839 for everybody for any more they were just standing rules 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.039 of war. That looks more sustinct way saying it. Sure, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.520 and the first, the first Geneva Convention produced the Convention 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.040 for the Amelioration of the Edition of the Wounded and 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:05.400 Sick and Armed Forces in the Field. Yeah. Yeah, that 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.159 was the first one. Like you said, over time, as 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.120 we saw new atrocities take place, they went and created 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.800 and amended the existing conventions, created new ones. So there 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.880 was a Convention Um that addressed sick shipwrecked members of 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.240 the Armed Forces at sea. Yeah. They forgot the seamen 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.240 and the first one and they said, yeah, we gotta 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.400 think about those guys exactly. There's the rules can governing 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.000 the treatment of POW's. And then the fourth Convention Um, 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.920 which is ratified in nineteen fifty four, was the treatment 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:41.479 of civilians, not surprisingly shortly after World War two. Yeah, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.920 and actually after World War two that drove the first 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.440 Geneva Convention, and actually the first three we're all created 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.680 before World War two, um, And people were like, that's 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.919 really nice, we like that, it's a great idea. And 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.800 then World War two happened and everybody came to the 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.599 table under the auspices of the u IN and said 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.360 we we need these. So a hundred and ninety countries 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.280 have ratified the Geneva Conventions, and you get the impression 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.560 that if you want to be recognized as a sovereign 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.400 nation internationally, that's one of the steps toward toward being 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.840 an independent nations. You got to ratify the Geneva Conventions. Yeah, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.200 otherwise what are you doing? You're just some rogue jerk 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.760 jerk country. So that's the Geneva Conventions, and we'll get 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.520 more into those later, but they're also everyone's heard of 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.280 the Geneva Convention. Not many people have heard of the 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.760 Hague Conventions, although they should because they were just as important. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.120 There were the Haguen the Netherlands is where these took place, 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:44.480 and they were called the also called the International Peace Conferences. Yeah, 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.120 about the same time that the Geneva Conventions were being held, right, Yeah, 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:52.520 And they had one in seven They were gonna have 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.760 one peace conference and then they decided to cancel it 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.920 and have a World war instead, and that was World 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.120 War One, obviously, and they the hag Conventions fall into 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.960 categories of combat, weaponry, property rights, and duties of neutral countries. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.560 But in addition, so a lot of the a lot 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.680 of the rules established in the Hage Conventions are similar 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.800 to the rules of the Geneva convensions. They overlap, but 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.080 one of one of the things that defines the Hague 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:25.520 Conventions specifically is that there are steps outlined to prevent war. Right, 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.480 So there's UM two in the lead up the build 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.520 up to war. There's steps you have to take too 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.880 to be in step legally with the Hag Conventions, which 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.040 are there's like a thirty day cooling off period time 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:44.800 out right, UM, arbitration, mediation, liberation, Sorry that was in 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.960 access UM Committees of inquiry. Yeah, Basically, you have to 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.920 UM also declare war formally, or you have to declare 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.280 an ultimatum saying like give me back my sandwich and 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.160 pull your troops out of my South Asian territories, or 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.040 I'm gonna come at you. And that's after they've gone 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.280 through all the previous steps, the thirty day time out 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.320 in the corner and everything else has failed. Then you 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.040 have to officially send the evite saying we're going to 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.120 attack you at some point, not to distance surprise attack 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.800 illegal Pearl harbor and actually right, that's illegal. UM. That's 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:26.320 one of the reasons why they the democratic peace theory works. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.080 So democratic peace theories based on the idea that democracies, 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.720 especially democracies that follow these conventions, are so transparent that 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.160 two democracies will never go to war because they're both 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.960 following the same transparent steps in the lead up to war, 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:46.600 and communication will be um much more open um. One 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:51.520 of the you a surprise attack is impossible, not only illegal, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:56.840 but impossible because they have vibrant independent media. Right, so 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.959 so democratic piece theory says that two democracies will never 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.040 go to war. I don't know that's necessarily true, but 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.720 it's based in part on this Hague convention. Thanks so 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.600 combat and weaponry and the Hague Conventions. They're pretty obvious. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.200 Things like you can't fly a white flag and then 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.280 shoot someone in the face, which apparently Iraqi soldiers did 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.160 in two thousand three in the US invaded. Not very nice. Illegal, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.960 You cannot if a person has surrendered or as injured, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.160 then that's it for them. You can't go shoot them 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.319 in the face. I mean, you gotta treat him. While 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:30.920 we'll get to that in a minute too. If a 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.840 person has a visible or an audible speech impediment, you 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.440 can't make fun of him. That's very true. You can't 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.400 attack a defenseless person. You can't like attack a hospital 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.439 or a building being used as a hospital. No, that's 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.600 what they call using a human shield. And there's a 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.880 huge no no, and it's yeah, that's big time jerk 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.040 quality right there. Uh. Natural, And see, this is what 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.360 I thought was kind of interesting. National and cultural symbols 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.680 are protected, So you can't desecrate a flag or use 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.200 the enemy's flag. You can like dress up as a 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.520 soldier and say I'm really a Nazi, even though all 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.920 those movies they always did stuff like that. Yeah, well 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.600 it's illegal. Inglorious. Maybe it's sensible, but it's illegal. Yeah. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.520 The whole movie they were dressed up, well not the 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.760 whole movie, but a significant portion of it. Yeah, they 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.520 dressed his Nazis to kill Nazis. That was a great movie. 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.480 It was pretty awesome, Chuck. You also can't hide out 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:29.280 in museums or libraries, well yeah, you can't. Certainly can't 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.400 bomb them, just like just like a hospital, they're protected 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.559 as well. To talk a little more about later, Um, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.680 and there's certain weapons you can't use. The Higgs specifically, 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.200 says Um. The right of belligerents to adopt means of 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.120 injuring the enemy is not unlimited. Right, So basically, you 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.000 can't use poison bullets, you can't use poison gas, you 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.480 can't use weapons that are designed to inflict further harm 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.079 beyond the initial injury. Yeah, Like they have those bullets 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.160 that once they get inside of you start doing all 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.000 sorts of wacky thing for further damage. Like they have 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.960 the bow ties that spin around, flapping dickies. Uh. Chemical 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:11.680 and biological warfare is made illegal all the way back in. Yeah. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:16.240 Sarin gas, chlorine gas, uh, mustard gas, all those are 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:21.480 old timey poison gases. Yeah. Yeah, smallpox can't do that. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.280 So we were talking about wounded and sick. Uh. Basically 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.719 the Hague Conventions spells it out pretty clearly. If you're 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.480 wounded and you're sick, or if you see us another 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.079 soldier an enemy that's wounded or sick, you gotta help him. Yeah, 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:35.880 and we should probably say about at this point that 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.640 you can, um, you can break down the Hagen Geneva 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:43.160 Conventions by like combat weaponry treatment a civilian ship, or 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.560 you can look at them the rules for overarching as 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.439 they apply to the different groups involved, and the group 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.439 with the least amount of protection are active combatants, right, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.199 but once you be once you're injured or you're sick 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.240 and you're no longer capable of fighting, you slip into 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:02.600 the sick or wounded soldier category and you suddenly enjoy 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.400 far more protections than if you have a gun and 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.880 you're coming at somebody. Right. Well, yeah, not like I said, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.960 not only can you not uh shoot the guy in 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.480 the face, you have to help them or at least 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.600 allow them to be helped by like the Red Cross, 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.720 right and chuck Like, you can't just walk away right now, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.200 like after a battle. You can't just walk away from 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.720 the battlefield after you've won. You can't just release the chows. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.880 Which did you know that that's what childs were originally 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.960 bred for in China? Did not know that they would 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.160 release them onto the battlefield? They chew the throat side 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.360 of survivors. Yes, is that what the suckers are? So 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.880 puffy and mean? Um, we used to have childs. Actually 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.760 they're not mean, so you, but they are protective. You 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.679 can do some damage, true, Um, but you can't release 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.480 the child's out in the battlefield. But not only that, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.520 you can't just walk away from the battle field. You 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:55.480 you have to um help injured soldiers. You gotta help 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.240 it the injured, and you gotta clean your plate. You 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.280 can't just leave the deadline around every No, as a 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.960 matter of fact, you have to give the enemy soldiers 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:10.120 that you've killed a burial that's appropriate to their religions. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.240 You're supposed to and at the beginning of every war, 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.839 they're supposed to be a graves Registration Service, which is 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.000 neutral party like the Red Cross, and it's possibly operated 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.680 by the Red Cross. Where you bury a bunch of 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.160 soldiers and you say you you contact the graves Registration 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.240 Service and say, there's a bunch of dead soldiers here 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.760 we killed, and they're buried here and here the coordinates, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.640 and the the graves Registration Service provides each side with these coordinates. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.080 After the wars, the bodies can be exhumed and sent home. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.840 Well yeah, not only that, but you're you're supposed to 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.360 return all property found on the body. So you can't 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.720 like you see in the movies where you go looting 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.280 the body of of trinkets and things to take home 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.520 like a broach. Right, let's say you can't do that. 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.240 You're supposed to mail that to their next of ken, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.440 which kind of wonder about that how often that happens. 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.640 I wonder it myself. You cannot perform experiments on a 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.960 wounded or sick person like the Nazis love to do. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.720 That's a big one. Uh. And that's about it for 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.040 the second wounded, and it's biological experiments. But I think 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:21.320 also brainwashing sure constitute an experiment, and you're not allowed 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.960 to do that either. UM. So let's say that you 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.040 have been caught, you you are, you received treatment from 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:33.920 the enemy, um, and they're like, well, you're well, now 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.520 you're a pow. Do you still have some pretty wide 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.600 um protections? Actually? Yeah, this is a fact at your 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.840 next cocktail party that you should pull out of your 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.040 hip pocket. You. If you're a pow, you're a prisoner 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.840 of the country, not a prisoner of the soldier or 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.920 the platoon or the commander in chief of that region. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.800 You're a prisoner of the United States of America if 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.600 that's who is fighting against America America. But not only that, um, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:08.040 your detention is legal under international law. Therefore, an escape 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.200 is illegal and can be punished unless you make it 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.440 to your other side, to your side, and then they 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.640 wipe this slight clean, right, it's totally clean like you 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.800 were never captured in the first place. So if you're 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.880 a spy and you're caught and your hell is a POW, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.280 you're going to be tried as a spy and possibly hanged. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.760 If you escape two, say an occupied territory that your 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:36.000 army controls, you are your detention is just wiped off 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.400 the map. And if you're caught again, say as a 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.240 regular soldier, you can't be tried as a spy. It's 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.920 like it never happened. Isn't that interesting? That's kind of 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.160 cool telling about name rank and serial number. Yeah, you've 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.880 you've often heard that in movies. Um, that is definitely 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.200 a part of the Third Geneva Convention. But it is 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.720 not merely for name identification. But you are awarded privileges 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.360 if you are an off sir in europow, Like you 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.200 don't have to dig the latrine ditches like the privates 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.600 and the corporals do. If you're an officer, you have 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.000 a little bit of a I don't know about cush 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.439 your life, but you could drink ticket every day. You 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.919 can train. But it's like when you see all the 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.639 World War two movies, like The Great Escape, the Officers, Um, 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.560 they were always had a little bit better deal than 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.959 than their men, like they were the ones. Like Hogan's heroes, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:32.119 Hogan was always meeting with the uh what was with claim? 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:34.840 But the rest of the guys wouldn't meet. It was 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.280 always Hogan because he was the main, the main man. 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.840 Did you ever see Auto Focus? You're gonna say that 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.200 it's hard to watch Hogan's heroes ever again? And auto Focus? God, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.720 I love that. Yeah, it's right up your alley. H 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.600 The other thing about POWs is, um they are prisoners, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.240 much like a civilian prisoner would be, and they're innocent 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.000 until proven guilty, supposedly, and you have to treat him 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:03.520 as such. Um. So, if you are captured, is a 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.159 POW you are, or if you're captured you're required to 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.439 grant this person POW status if you're supposed to err 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.480 on the side of caution. There's very sure whether they're 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.560 POW or not, right, but there's a very specific qualifications 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.440 that you have to classify them. If they are obviously 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.840 members of the armed force. They can be a member 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.880 of a militia or a volunteer corps. Right, still got 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.240 to be a pow. Right, they could be some guy 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.440 who you who happened to be like carrying a gun 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.359 out in the open, and you still have to say 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:36.520 we're going to treat you like a POW until we 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.040 set up a tribunal and they say, no, he's not 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.760 a POW. Is a common criminal. Members of the media 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.560 traveling with the armed forces, they have to be granted 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:49.040 POW status and it's about it a cruise of merchant 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.720 marine and civil aircraft they're working with army. One of 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.240 the reasons why Abu Grab and the treatment, the degradation 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.880 at Abu Grab was so illegal was because these combatants 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:05.880 weren't granted POW status right off the bat. These captured 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:11.119 combatants were treated as criminals. Basically, they were imprisoned. So 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.600 that's one. You can't imprison a POW. You can intern 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.919 them in an internment camp. Do they have borders, but 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.080 not a cell. It's another one. Unless they're like a 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.240 specific danger, then you can work around that, which is 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.840 probably what they said. Um, you can't subject them to 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:31.120 degrading treatment interrogation. Interrogation basically amounts to you ask him 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.840 a question and it's up to them whether they want 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.600 to answer it or not. And if they don't want 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.520 to answer then you that's it. You can't ask them 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.720 again even they can't be coerced or tortured under any 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:46.399 definition of torture. Um, and you can't, um, they can't 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.439 their detention can't be paraded in front of the media. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:53.760 That was another thing too. I mean you remember Lyndy 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.560 England right, pointing and like, did you ever see the 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.360 mad magazine one? Or is alfredy Newman is now it's again? Um? 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.280 So there were several reasons why Abu Gray was just 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.840 so horrendous. Well, yeah, and you also have to grant 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:14.280 them any any rights that your own soldiers get like food, water, shelter, clothing, exercise, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.520 correspondence like you have to. You have to let them 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.880 know exactly where they are, and you have to make 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.800 them available to receive mail from their families. Yeah. Not 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.280 only did you have to tell them where they are, 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.199 you have to give them the mailing address so that 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:34.600 they can receive care packages, letters, whatever. Crazy So Chuck, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.879 that's POWs right, Ah, yeah, pretty much. Let's talk about civilians. 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.800 Do you remember Red Dawn. We've talked about this often. 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:46.359 I should say that recently when we were hanging out 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.560 with our friend Chad, he remarked after I said that 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.960 I had just recently seen The Fly David Krodenberg's The 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.200 Fly for the first time, that he had just seen 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.640 Red don for the first time. And you, I thought, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.840 we're gonna beat him up, punch him in the face. 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.520 I just don't understand how you could. He's our age 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.400 our ages. Yeah, he seems like it. He should have 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.840 seen Red Dawn long before this. That's hadn't seen war 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.240 games if you were a child, like a teenage boy 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.359 in the eighties. So back to it, read Dawn. Well, okay, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:23.520 so you remember Harry Dean Stanton where Jed and Charlie 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.639 Sheen come to Jed and who it was Swayzie and 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.800 Jean wasn't. Yeah, but I can't remember Thomas. Did they 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.359 all three go? Possibly, but it was definitely Jed and 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.320 his brother, Um, And they go to see their father, 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.000 who happens to be Harry Dean Stanton. He's in turn. 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.040 Notice he's not in a cell. They've put up fencing 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.840 around the drive in right, and they're projecting propaganda up 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:52.040 onto the screen and they're playing like Russian Soviet music. Um, 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:57.680 that's legal. Right. When he passes by, I think Arturo's father, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.400 who's getting like a German shepherd to the face. Yeah, 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.840 that's highly illegal. Can't use the dogs, No, you can't, 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.159 um the chows. No, no child's, no German shops, no 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:11.080 dogs of any kind. Um. When the Russians landed and 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.399 opened fire on the unarmed high school students, that's highly 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.479 illegal to I mean, they just flat out shot up 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.359 that teacher, remember that. Yeah, and that kid too. Yeah, 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.920 the kid's hanging out the window. That was one of 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:25.640 the most disturbing images of my young life. Very impactful. See. 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.440 I wanted to be a wolverine. Oh yeah, so did I. 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.040 And and I guess all little boys like playing war. 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:32.639 But I mean I didn't know I was going to 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.280 be a peace nick later on. But at the time, man, 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:37.720 I was like, bring it, I'll get a gun, I'll 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.560 go to the woods, pack of football and some canned beans. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.840 I wish that, um, you could take the video of 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.199 your life and edit it, because I would make a 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:53.080 montage of all the times I shouted wolverines, like in 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:55.520 the woods. There's a kid. That's what I would do 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:57.760 with my time. It was more than once. Um, so 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:03.080 Red Dawn somewhat on the Soviets took care of the 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:06.680 civilians to a certain extent. They legally interned others, they 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:10.080 illegally attack some with dogs. But um, let's say you 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.000