1
00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

2
00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,639
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,760
Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

6
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

7
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What

8
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at

9
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. We have

10
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Ryssel? Indeed,

11
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,200
Speaker 1: we do lots of interesting stuff to talk about this morning.

12
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: So first of all, a blockbuster report. Now this is

13
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 1: being disputed, but we'll get into all of it about

14
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 1: who actually blew up the Nordstream pipeline and how precisely

15
00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 1: they did it. You definitely want to hear the details there.

16
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 1: We also have the highlights and low lights from the

17
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,720
Speaker 1: Twitter hearings yesterday from both sides, New AI wars reaching

18
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,679
Speaker 1: new heights. I guess you've got Microsoft and Google kind

19
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,960
Speaker 1: of going at it. Very interesting in terms of the

20
00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,199
Speaker 1: future and big implications here for I think the news

21
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,960
Speaker 1: media and what it's going to mean for online news

22
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,120
Speaker 1: in particular. We have Donald Trump accusing Ron DeSantis of

23
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,119
Speaker 1: being a groomer, DeSantis now firing back as the Republican

24
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: primary continues to heat up. And quite an extraordinary reaction

25
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,679
Speaker 1: to the Biden State of the Union coming from a

26
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 1: former Democratic member of Congress. We will play that for

27
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,480
Speaker 1: you too. Also excited to welcome to the show, Trevor Aarinson.

28
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,560
Speaker 1: He has a new podcast out, Blockbuster, reporting about how

29
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 1: the FBI infiltrated Black Lives Matter protests in Denver in particular,

30
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 1: and the allegation here is that they basically tried to

31
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: make this thing more violent and to entrap people. Sort

32
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: of echoes of co intel pro here. So Trevor's going

33
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: to come on. He's going to tell us all about

34
00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: his reporting. But first we wanted to start with some

35
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: big news with regards to the Ukraine War. Yeah, that's right.

36
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: So President Zelenski leaving Ukraine and traveling to the United

37
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: Kingdom this morning. He's actually in France. So yesterday in

38
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: the UK he made an impassioned speech at Westminster for

39
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 1: fighter pilots and sorry for fighter jets to be delivered

40
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 1: to Ukraine from the UK and they are open to

41
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: that possibility. Here's what he had to say. It's I

42
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 1: will explain, is the helmet of a real Ukrainian pilot.

43
00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 1: He's one of our most successful asis and he's one

44
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 1: of our kings. And the writing on the helmet rits

45
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 1: we have freedom, give us wings to protect it. So

46
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: that was President of Zelenski at Westminster. It was a

47
00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: big speech in the UK. He was greeted on the

48
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 1: tarmac by She's Sunak And accordingly to the UK press

49
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,639
Speaker 1: and some leaks out of the UK government, they are

50
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,960
Speaker 1: highly considering actually turning over F sixteen. Let's go and

51
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,680
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen. So what we

52
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,680
Speaker 1: do know is that the Prime Minister said that Ukrainian pilots,

53
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 1: as a quote first step, will begin their months long

54
00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 1: training on NATO platform NATO standard aircraft. Now they're going

55
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 1: to be trained. That doesn't necessarily mean that the jets

56
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: are going yet. However, they said that all options were

57
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: on the table. The Defense Secretary has now been tasked

58
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: with investigating which jets that the UK might be able

59
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 1: to supply to Ukraine. So the Prime Minister just said

60
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 1: it would be a quote long term option. So this

61
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: of course has been probably behind the tanks which they

62
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 1: just got British challenger tanks, leper tanks from the US,

63
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 1: from Germany and from elsewhere. This has probably been the

64
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,120
Speaker 1: top ask of the Zelenski government outside of a no

65
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 1: fly zone. It was totally off the table for basically

66
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 1: the entire year. But you know, as I often say,

67
00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 1: on a long enough timeline, they do appear to get

68
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,800
Speaker 1: whatever they want. The other question, too is about how

69
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 1: the rest of the NATO countries will react. So France

70
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 1: of course has its own jets, of the US has jets.

71
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,279
Speaker 1: President Biden shot down that report about the Pentagon saying

72
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,599
Speaker 1: that they were warming to providing jets to Ukraine. He

73
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,920
Speaker 1: was set point blank, no, we're not going to send

74
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 1: F sixteen's. However, some of the wording here of what

75
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 1: we're looking at is NATO standard aircraft F sixteen not

76
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: being specifically named, so another aircraft could be sending there.

77
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,280
Speaker 1: But of course, you know, it would be an extraordinary move.

78
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,800
Speaker 1: It would be effectively the most escalatory piece of weaponry

79
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,919
Speaker 1: that we could provide the Ukrainians literally outside of a

80
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,919
Speaker 1: direct no fly zone and intervention into the conflict. Crystal. Yeah,

81
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 1: and it's worth keeping in mind with regards to how

82
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 1: we ended up agreeing to sending tanks, that there was resistance,

83
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,839
Speaker 1: especially actually coming from the Pentagon right up until the

84
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 1: moment when they decided. They ultimately came and said all right, fine,

85
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 1: we're going to send tanks. And part of how that

86
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,679
Speaker 1: all happened is there was a lot of pressure coming

87
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 1: from Germany because Germany was under pressure to send tanks

88
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,320
Speaker 1: and they didn't want to be out there alone, so

89
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 1: effectively they sort of pressured the US, and ultimately, because

90
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 1: we seem to always do this, we caved and said,

91
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 1: all right, finding we will send the tanks. So are

92
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: you going to have a similar dynamic here where the

93
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 1: UK is on board with sending fighter jets but wants

94
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: us to go along with them, You know, the UK,

95
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,159
Speaker 1: whether it is under newm Prime Minister Rishie Sunak or

96
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,840
Speaker 1: previous prime minister. This was now two prime ministers to

97
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 1: go Boris Johnson. They have been among the most bellicos,

98
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: the most hawkish, the most pro escalation. Famously, Boris Johnson,

99
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, flew to Kiev early on in the conflict

100
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,960
Speaker 1: and delivered the message probably on behalf of the US

101
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: that even though peace talks were sort of moving forward

102
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: and they were coming close to potentially some sort of deal,

103
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: that the US and the UK did not want a

104
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,799
Speaker 1: deal at that time. So they have been our close

105
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 1: partners in terms of a strategy that has just consistently

106
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 1: left to escalation after escalation after escalation. I think it

107
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 1: is always important to go back to the way this

108
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,480
Speaker 1: was sold to the American people at the beginning, and

109
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 1: what we were told were going to be the parameters

110
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 1: of our support. The parameters of that support were going

111
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 1: to be we will provide whatever weapons we can for

112
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,840
Speaker 1: Ukraine to defend themselves, and offensive capabilities, tanks and especially

113
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 1: longer range missiles and doubly especially fighter jets totally off

114
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: the table. Joe Biden says, no, We're not going to

115
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 1: do it. He's said that before about many other things

116
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: that we ultimately ended up shipping. So I wouldn't take that.

117
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 1: I would take that with a lot of grains as sault.

118
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 1: We'll see, you know. Boris Johnson, Prime Minister Johnson, Former

119
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,480
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Johnson was actually here in the United States

120
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: just last week campaigning to send F sixteens to the Ukrainians.

121
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,719
Speaker 1: He's been calling for more fighter jets that go over there.

122
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm a couple of minds of this. Of course, I

123
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 1: do want the Europeans to take the vast majority of

124
00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 1: the AID, So it's one of those things I'm like, hey,

125
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 1: you know you want to send it there, all right,

126
00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,320
Speaker 1: that's on you, but don't get us into your mess.

127
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: But in a lot of ways, it also doesn't work

128
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 1: like that, right because we are all NATO allies, and

129
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 1: if somebody attacks Britain, well we're all in it no

130
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 1: matter what. So I don't really know how exactly we

131
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,200
Speaker 1: should look at this. The real question is always going

132
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 1: to come down to Washington. What does Washington think? What

133
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: are they going to do? Are they going to join

134
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 1: the UK? I mean, it's almost never happened that, you know,

135
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: outside of DC, that another country is willing to give

136
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 1: something even more offensive to the Ukrainians without the US

137
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 1: joining in part. So we'll see if Biden can keep

138
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: the pressure against that inside of the Pentagon. Personally, I'm

139
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 1: a bit skeptical of all of them. Yeah, well, and

140
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: Russia rightly, I think at this point sees this as

141
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 1: a proxy war with the US specifically and NATO more broadly.

142
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 1: Are they going to make a crucial distinction between whether

143
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,320
Speaker 1: it's the Brits or US that's in the fighter jets.

144
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 1: I highly doubt it, right. So Christopher Caldwell had actually

145
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: a great op ed in the New York Times. Go

146
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 1: ahead and put this up there on the screen. I

147
00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: thought we'd read some of it to all of you,

148
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: because he did a very good job of articulating it.

149
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 1: So Russia and Ukraine have incentives to negotiate, the US

150
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 1: has other plans. That's the headline. So what he reads

151
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,160
Speaker 1: here is that the United States recent promise to ship

152
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: M one Abram tanks to Ukraine with swift response to

153
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 1: a serious problem. The problem is that Ukraine is losing

154
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 1: the war, not as far as we can tell, because

155
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,920
Speaker 1: its soldiers are fighting poorly or its people have lost heart,

156
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,240
Speaker 1: but because war has settled into a World War One

157
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: style battle of attrition, complete with carefully dug trenches and

158
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,680
Speaker 1: relatively stable fronts. Such wars tend to be won, as

159
00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 1: World War One was, by the side with the demographic

160
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 1: and industrial resources to hold out the longest. Russia has

161
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,599
Speaker 1: three times Ukraine's population and intact economy, superior military technology

162
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, Russia has its own problems. Until recently,

163
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 1: a shortage of soldiers, vulnerability of arms, deposts, and missile

164
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,200
Speaker 1: strikes slowed its westward progress. Both sides thus have an

165
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,319
Speaker 1: incentive to come to the negotiating table. The Biden administration

166
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 1: has other plans. It is betting that by providing tanks,

167
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 1: it can improve Ukraine's chances of winning the war. In

168
00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,960
Speaker 1: a sense, the idea is to fast forward history. Fast

169
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,199
Speaker 1: forward history from World War One battles position to World

170
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 1: War II battles of movement. It's a plausible strategy. Eighty

171
00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 1: years ago, the tanks of Hitler and Stalin revolutionized warfare

172
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 1: not far from the territory that is being fought today.

173
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,199
Speaker 1: But the Biden strategy has a bad name escalation. Beyond

174
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 1: a certain point, the United States is no longer quote

175
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 1: helping or quote advising or quote supplying the Ukrainians the

176
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: way that it did, say the Afghan Mujahadin. It is

177
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,560
Speaker 1: quote replacing Ukraine as Russia's main battlefield adversary. It is

178
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,839
Speaker 1: hard to say when that point will be reached, or

179
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 1: whether he has been already. With whom is Russia at war,

180
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,720
Speaker 1: Ukraine or the United States Russia started the war between

181
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 1: Russia and Ukraine. Who started the war between Russia and

182
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 1: the United States. The sudden policy lurch has the look

183
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 1: of an accident, and he talks about the way that

184
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,600
Speaker 1: the tanks were ultimately shipped because of the Germans and

185
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 1: what they were asking of us. But ultimately, what he

186
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,559
Speaker 1: comes down to and what he points is that where

187
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,680
Speaker 1: that line is as to when we are replacing Ukrainian

188
00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: forces as opposed to supporting Ukrainian forces, Well, it's a

189
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,200
Speaker 1: complicated question. I you know, it's one of those like

190
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,439
Speaker 1: the famous quote about pornography from the Supreme Courts, Like,

191
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,560
Speaker 1: I know, when you see it, to me, tanks and

192
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: jets look very close to the replacement line. I probably

193
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 1: could have made a good case basically all the way

194
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 1: back to the beginning. But the point that he's making

195
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 1: is that, look, I mean, Ukraine is a polity that

196
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 1: does not exist without the West period. They're literally fold tomorrow.

197
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 1: So they have no industrial base, they have no economy,

198
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: their entire population is already weaponized towards total warfare, and

199
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: that's just simply not going to cut it in an

200
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 1: actual conflict. Now, with the help of their allies or

201
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 1: how able to hold on the question though, and you

202
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,720
Speaker 1: know you use the word defense, I already know the

203
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,640
Speaker 1: Ukraine stands will say, well, they're defending their territory, they

204
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: were invaded, and I'm like, yeah, absolutely, and again I've

205
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 1: said this. I would do the exact same thing if

206
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 1: I were them. The question to us, though, is like, well,

207
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 1: where's our line? Are we willing to go to war

208
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 1: and let Ukrainian jets bomb Crimea? I mean or sorry,

209
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,240
Speaker 1: US provided jets to bomb Crimea. That's a whole whole

210
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 1: other ballgame in terms of the way that they consider it.

211
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 1: You know, bombing eastern Ukraine is a whole other scenario.

212
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 1: And the Ukrainians, by the way, you know, all the

213
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 1: polling coming out of Ukraine, in the at least western

214
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 1: part of Ukraine, the people who massively support the Zelenski

215
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 1: government ninety one percent of them want to retake Crimea.

216
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,120
Speaker 1: They look at it as a total non negotiable thing

217
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 1: that we would tell them not to do it. Listen,

218
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 1: you can do what you want, what you do with

219
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,680
Speaker 1: our weapons, though, We're going to have some say in that,

220
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 1: and I think we probably should. There's a couple of

221
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: really key points that he makes here as you lay

222
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 1: on saber targeting, Crimea is a different thing, a different beast.

223
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 1: And what he says in this piece is President Biden's

224
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 1: own advisors are divided on how aggressively to pursue the war.

225
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 1: Some even proposed to chase Russia out of Crimea. That

226
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 1: would promise a new kind of mission for NATO, the conquest,

227
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,040
Speaker 1: annexation and garrisoning of a population that doesn't want it.

228
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 1: So with regards to Crimea, I think he lays that

229
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 1: out extremely well. The other piece here is that, you know,

230
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 1: he reminds that we have to keep in mind not

231
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 1: just what's good for us or good for Ukraine in

232
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: the short term, but how are you going to bring

233
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 1: this thing to a close? And when or if is

234
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,959
Speaker 1: Russia likely to fold? Like you have to get into

235
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 1: their shoes, and how they're looking at this as well,

236
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 1: And he warns we should not forget that whatever values

237
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 1: each side might bring to it, this war is not

238
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,320
Speaker 1: at hard a clash of values. It is a classic

239
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,559
Speaker 1: interstate war over territory and power caring at a border

240
00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 1: between empires. In this confrontation, mister Putin and his Russia

241
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 1: have fewer good options for backing down than American policy

242
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,600
Speaker 1: makers seem to realize, and more incentives to follow the

243
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 1: US all the way up the ladder of escalation. That

244
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 1: is a dire warning right there, because what does the

245
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 1: ladder of escalation look like when you're talking about two

246
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,800
Speaker 1: nuclear armed superpowers. I don't think that is a place

247
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 1: that any of us want to go, and that our

248
00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 1: policy makers should be ultimately pushing us. So I think

249
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,839
Speaker 1: he lays out the stakes here quite well and has

250
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 1: some clear thinking about what we're doing. How we have

251
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 1: just sort of climbed this ladder of escalation with very

252
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 1: little debate, with very little thinking, and where this could

253
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 1: ultimately all lead. Well, well, I think we'll all find out.

254
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,960
Speaker 1: And look, things on the ground are actually shifting quickly.

255
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen right now.

256
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: It looks like a offensive sometime in this month of

257
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,679
Speaker 1: February is going to be mounted by the Russians somewhere

258
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 1: in eastern Ukraine. A lot of intelligence coming out spy

259
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,960
Speaker 1: satellites and others indicating that there's a lot of railway

260
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,959
Speaker 1: activity and a lot of troops that are being brought

261
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,679
Speaker 1: to the front line, and so this will also be

262
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: a critical test of Ukrainian forces after they had their

263
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 1: significant victory in the Spring offensive, and so how they've

264
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,360
Speaker 1: held up through the winter. There's been relentless amounts of

265
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 1: shelling missile attacks all across the city. Their resolve doesn't

266
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 1: seem to be folding. But look, you think Zelensky leaves

267
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: Ukraine begging for weapons, you know, just because it's out

268
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,840
Speaker 1: of the goodness of his heart or because things going well. No,

269
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: like he's doing it because he desperately obviously looks like

270
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 1: he needs it in order to get the job done

271
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 1: the way that he sees it. That's part of why

272
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 1: he came to Washington. That's part of why he's in

273
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 1: Paris today, and it's part of why he was in

274
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 1: the UK. And he's probably going to go to Berlin

275
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,679
Speaker 1: next and that's not a surprise to anybody. All Right,

276
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 1: let's go to the next one. Here, quite a bit

277
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 1: of discussion. We're going to lay it all out for you.

278
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,480
Speaker 1: Seymour Hirsch, the famous Politic Surprize winning journalists who uncovered

279
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,480
Speaker 1: the Myli massacre, has put out a new report on

280
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 1: his substack. He says, quote, how America took out the

281
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 1: nord Stream pipeline his subhead is. The New York Times

282
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,280
Speaker 1: called it a mystery, but the United States executed a

283
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,040
Speaker 1: covert sea operation that was kept secret until now, So

284
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: it's worth noting a couple of things. Number one is

285
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 1: that Hirsch is basing this all of this on an

286
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,040
Speaker 1: anonymous source, but I'll read to you exactly what he says.

287
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 1: The US Navy's Diving in Salva Center is found at

288
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 1: an obscure location, down in a country lane in rural

289
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: Panama City, a now booming resort in the southwestern pa

290
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 1: can Handle of Florida. The complex is nondescript as its location.

291
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 1: The center has been training highly skilled deep water divers

292
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,120
Speaker 1: for decades who were once assigned to the American military

293
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: units worldwide capable of technical diving to do the good

294
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 1: using sea four explosives to clear harbors and beaches of

295
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 1: debris and unexploited ordinance, as well as the bat like

296
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,560
Speaker 1: blowing up for an oil rigs, fouling intake valves for

297
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: undersea power plants, destroying locks. The Panama City Center, which

298
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 1: boasts the second largest indoor pool in America, was a

299
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: perfect place to recruit the best and most taciturn graduates

300
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: of the diving school who successfully last summer when they

301
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 1: were authorized to do a two hundred and sixty feet

302
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 1: operation under the surface of the Baltic Sea. So here

303
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 1: is his specific allegation. Last June, Navy divers, operating the

304
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 1: cover of a widely publicized Midsummer NATO exercise known as

305
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 1: Baltops twenty two, planted remotely triggered explosives that three months

306
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 1: later destroyed three of the four Nordstream pipelines, according to

307
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 1: a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning, I

308
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,240
Speaker 1: will note that he is single sourcing this. He says,

309
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 1: it's somebody who has since been interviewed. He says, somebody

310
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: who would certainly be in the No. Two of the pipelines,

311
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 1: which were collectively known as Nordstream one, providing Germany and

312
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,240
Speaker 1: much of Western Europe with cheap Russian gas. A second

313
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 1: pair of pipeline is called Northstream two, but were not

314
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 1: yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian

315
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,160
Speaker 1: border and the bloodiest wars since nineteen forty five, President

316
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 1: Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for of Vladimir

317
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 1: Putin to weaponized natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

318
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 1: So this was denied by the White House. They say, quote,

319
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,800
Speaker 1: this is false and complete fiction. This claim claim is

320
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 1: completely and utterly false. So the rest of the report

321
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 1: goes more into the strategic position of the North Stream

322
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 1: pipeline itself, but the core allegation is that US Navy divers,

323
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 1: acting under the authoration of the President, were sent in

324
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: June of twenty twenty two to plant explosives that were

325
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 1: triggered months later on the pipeline. And of course, you know,

326
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 1: this is an explosive allegation because look, Seymour Hirsch, you

327
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 1: cannot deny it covered one of the biggest scandals entire

328
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 1: Vietnam War and is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, and

329
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: anything that the man has to say, I think that

330
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 1: we have to take very seriously. Yeah, and I think

331
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: zooming out from this report, which has a lot of specificity,

332
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,679
Speaker 1: I really encourage you to read it in depth about

333
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 1: the considerations about the motive here, the fact that the

334
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,880
Speaker 1: US has long sort of hated these pipelines. They talk about,

335
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, the political fears with regards to the pipelines

336
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 1: are real. Putin would now have an additional and much

337
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,919
Speaker 1: needed major source of income. Germany and the rest of

338
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 1: Western Europe would become addicted to low cost natural gas

339
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 1: applied by Russia, while diminishing European reliance on America. Then

340
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 1: once the war starts, as Saber laid out, they're thinking,

341
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,920
Speaker 1: all right, this is a way for Putin to sort

342
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 1: of weaponize his control over energy with regards to Germany

343
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 1: specific specifically and Europe more broadly. So the motive makes

344
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 1: some sense, makes a lot more sense than the motive

345
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 1: of Russia to blow up their own infrastructure and source

346
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 1: of revenue ever did So that's number one. And like

347
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 1: I said, there's a lot of details here that are

348
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,200
Speaker 1: worth taking a look at, including the fact that these

349
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: divers planted the explosives in advance, even talks about the

350
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,439
Speaker 1: operation that they used as cover, which countries sort of

351
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: collaborated and knew about it, who knew when, who was

352
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 1: involved in the deliberations, etc. When and how they decided

353
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: ultimately to detonate. But you know, this fits with what

354
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 1: the US motive could be, and it also fits with

355
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 1: the fact that we have now after the fact, had

356
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: multiple horses put this latest one up on the screen

357
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,240
Speaker 1: that oh, in all the investigations of who blew up

358
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 1: the nord Stream pipeline. Now you've got a German top

359
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 1: official saying, lo and behold, we didn't find any evidence

360
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 1: of Russian sabotage. And this is not the first investigation

361
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 1: that came to this conclusion. Now what they say is,

362
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 1: I guess it's just going to be a mystery. We'll

363
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: never know who did it. Well, there's only a few

364
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: culprits who really would be capable of this sort of

365
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 1: very intricate, elaborate mission. And you know, the US, UK, Russia,

366
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 1: there aren't a whole lot of others that could have

367
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 1: probably pulled this off by themselves. Yeah. My only personal

368
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 1: thing with this is, I honestly I've always thought, at

369
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: least in the last couple of weeks, especially since that

370
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 1: came out, I was like, what if it was Ukraine.

371
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: What if we're the ones who gave them the capability?

372
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 1: A they have a clear motive to do so. Sure,

373
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 1: they blew up the Crimeane Bridge. They literally assassinated somebody

374
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: in Russia. I mean, it's not outside of their playbook,

375
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: but it's just that they would have the capability. So

376
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: I was like, well, but then it's one of those

377
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 1: where like, did we give them the capability and we

378
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 1: trained them at this facility? Even Okay, let's say it

379
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,120
Speaker 1: was Ukraine who was giving them to know how, the tools,

380
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: the weapons that every the targeting out, all of that

381
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 1: would have to come from US or potentially the UK,

382
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 1: and I mean US in the UK and this whole

383
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 1: conflict have been fairly inseparable. So listen, it's a single,

384
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: anonymous source, so you should keep that in mind as

385
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: you read this. I will just say that, you know,

386
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm not opining on knowing for sure what happened here,

387
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: but the motive for the US makes a hell of

388
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 1: a lot more sense than the motive from Russia ever did.

389
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of this that, you know, kind

390
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: of fits and lines up and could potentially make a

391
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: lot of sense in explaining what the hell exactly happened here. Again,

392
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 1: the White House denies it. Everybody involved denied it or

393
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't comment or whatever. But the US motive, like the

394
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: NATO motive, has always made a lot more sense than

395
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: the Russia did it motive. Well, it's one of those

396
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: where like somebody had to do it right, and it's

397
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 1: not that hard to figure out that there's only like

398
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: four or five countries that actually could. So it's like, well,

399
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 1: then which one you did? And well, current really forensic

400
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: evidence says that it wasn't the Russians, or at least

401
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: there's no evidence pointing to that now. To be clear,

402
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 1: they haven't released evidence about ruling out other culprits either.

403
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: They're just like, no, no no, no, it doesn't look like

404
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: it was Russia. It's like, well, okay, then, so we

405
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: have some questions. At the time of the attack, a

406
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 1: lot of people were passing around this clip of President

407
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: Biden talking about the North Stream pipeline. Let's take a listen.

408
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 1: If Russia invades that means tanks or troops crossing the

409
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: border of Ukraine again, then there will be there will

410
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: be no longer a north Stream too. We will bring

411
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: it into it it one way or the other. So look,

412
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people were talking about that

413
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: at the time. I tried my best here to just

414
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: be like, we're never going to know. The thing that

415
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 1: it was always the sketchiest to me, if people will remember,

416
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: is that Polish MEP who was Ann Applebaum's husband, literally

417
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: one of the chief Russia hawks here in Washington, who

418
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: writes for The Atlantic being like, thank you America, thank

419
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 1: you President Biden, tweeting a screenshot of the explosion of

420
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: the pipeline. He later deleted it several days later. No explanation,

421
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: and once again, let's just read it. The White House,

422
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: let's put this up there on the screen, says that

423
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: this is comple utterly false and a complete fiction. That's

424
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: Adrian Watson, a spokesperson for the White House National Security Council,

425
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: and spokespeople for the CIA Department and CIA and State

426
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: Department both said the exact same thing. So remember right

427
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 1: now as to who actually has all of the evidence,

428
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: it's Sweden and Denmark. Sweden in particular had some of

429
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: the forensics that they have in their laboratories. We should

430
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: also recall that it was deliberately called an act of

431
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: sabotage by almost everybody that was involved, and that's what

432
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: the current evidence, according to the Swedes and to the Danes,

433
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 1: that's what it all points to. The only question is

434
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: who undertook that sabotage. We'll have a link to that

435
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: report in the description if people want to go and

436
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: read it for themselves. Two final things to say. Number One,

437
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: the Krumlin is responding this morning. They're saying that the

438
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: world should know the truth about who's sabotage the Nord

439
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: Troum gas pipelines and that those responsible should be punished.

440
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: And this is directly, you know, in relationship to this

441
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: report from sy Hirsh and the other thing. Just in

442
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: terms of the stakes here, blowing up these pipelines is

443
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 1: an active war. I mean directly, blowing up the Nord

444
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: stream pipelines is an act of war. So if it

445
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 1: is true that the US was behind this attack, behind

446
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: this sabotage, that is truly an extraordinary and very dangerous

447
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: act ultimately. So that's why we focused on this, That's

448
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: why we went in you know, great depth when it

449
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: originally happened, and why we'll continue to pay attention to

450
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: how this all developed. Yeah. Absolutely, and you gotta wait

451
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,479
Speaker 1: for evidence though. That's the one thing is you know, everybody,

452
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: people were very quick on the draw to assign blame.

453
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: But as as we said at the time, let's wait,

454
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: and the longer we waited, a lot of the cynics

455
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: actually were vindicated. So if you just waited, and you

456
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: know what, you wouldn't have actually looked like you were

457
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: jumping to conclusions based on preconceived notions, especially because now

458
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: a lot of the people who immediately were like, yeah,

459
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: it was Russia, now they look like idiots. So true anyway, Yeah,

460
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: it always does a favorite, that is true, especially when yeah,

461
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: multiple investigations have said we haven't found any evidence of Russia,

462
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: and if it wasn't Russia, then it was somebody in

463
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: the NATO alliance, which is just basically defect over. Well

464
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: and I both know if they found a single nail

465
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: with a single cryllic rheteran at the bottom of the ocean,

466
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: they would have been like you, it was foodin right.

467
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: So if they had even one scrap that they could

468
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 1: put out there, Listen, we invaded a rack on, you know,

469
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: some bullshit yellow cake. So if they even had that

470
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: they would go with I'm honestly shocked that they didn't

471
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: just fabricate some evidence. To be honest with you, it

472
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: may still come. You never know, we'll see, all right,

473
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: So big Twitter hearings in the House yesterday. This is

474
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: kind of the GOP now that they're in controls their

475
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: first big foray into their investigations into quote unquote the

476
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: weaponization of government. You had a number of former high

477
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: level Twitter executives there, you know, basically the long and

478
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: short of it. We'll play some clips from all of

479
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: this and you can see what you think about it.

480
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: Long Jhore. It is, of course Republicans focused in particular

481
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: on the censoring of the Hunter Biden laptop story, I think,

482
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: with some justification and focusing on some other areas of

483
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: concern where this or that person was censored. Marjorie Taylor

484
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: Green asking questions about her own deplatforming from Twitter. Democrats

485
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: were focused a lot on number one, saying like, oh,

486
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: this is all a giant waste of time, and number

487
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: two that they actually didn't do enough to censor extreme content,

488
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: especially leading up to January six. So that was kind

489
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: of the overall. That was like the part what the

490
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: partisan sides were joking about. We had Joel Roth, who,

491
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: of course you guys probably know, former high level Twitter executive,

492
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: the adpend piece for the New York Times and became

493
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: very known throughout his role in the Twitter Files, his

494
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: appearances in the Twitter Files talking about how the Hunter

495
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: Biden laptop story was censored initially because it bore the

496
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: hallmarks of Russian misinformation. Let's take a listener to what

497
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: he had to say. In twenty twenty, Twitter noticed activity

498
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: related to the laptop. At first glance bore a lot

499
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: of similarities to the twenty sixteen Russian hack and league

500
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: operation targeting the DNC, And we had to decide what

501
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: to do, and in that moment, with limited information, Twitter

502
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: made a mistake. Under the distribution of hacked material policy,

503
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: the company decided to prevent links to The New York

504
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: Post stories about the laptop from being shared across the service.

505
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: Within the just mere minutes or hours after The New

506
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: York Post published its story on the Hunter Biden laptop

507
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: at eight fifty one am, you sent a message to

508
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: a team part of your team, I assume, and you

509
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: said it isn't clearly violative or a hacked materials policy,

510
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: referring to the story. So bottom line their story is

511
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: the government didn't actually talk to us about this specific thing. However,

512
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: they seem to have taken remember that letter that was

513
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: published and shined by all the generals and whatever, saying

514
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: this bears the hallmarks of Russian disinformation. They apparently took

515
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: that very seriously. Number one. Number two, the idea that

516
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,959
Speaker 1: hacked materials shouldn't be distributed, or that there was some

517
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: grave error in the way that they handled the WikiLeaks information.

518
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: I just think this is total nonsense. I mean, journalists

519
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: get information from a variety of sources, oftentimes very sketchy,

520
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: sometimes hacked materials all the time. That material even if

521
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: this was a Russian hacked and dump operation, it still

522
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: shouldn't be banned. So that's another piece. And then finally, Sager,

523
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like what happened here potentially is

524
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: the same thing that happened with Facebook, where you had

525
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: all these meetings with the FBI and they're saying, oh,

526
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: something might come, Well, worry, something's gonna come. Something's gonna come,

527
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: Something's gonna come. And then when this story drops and

528
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: you have official Washington come in and save all the

529
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: harmmarks of Russian misinformation, they were primed to act even

530
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: without needing the government to tell them specifically to act

531
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: on this particular piece of informa. Ohah, absolutely, I mean

532
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: the FBI fingerprints on this are everywhere, and I believe

533
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: you know, we have this next one here, which shows

534
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: Jim Jordan actually talking to Jim Baker, who was literally

535
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: worked for Jim's comy was since it was actually got

536
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: in trouble at the FBI for mishandling Russia. Gates specifically

537
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: then hired by Twitter, which it's like, how can you

538
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: just continue to fail upward? Like imagine getting fired from

539
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: your job for doing a bad job and then getting

540
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: paid millions of dollars more to go work at one

541
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: of the biggest tech companies in the world. It's insane.

542
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: And of course you know he also denies any FBI

543
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: fingerprints on all of this, but he literally was the

544
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: FBI General counsel. Let's tay a listen to what he said.

545
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: Mister Baker, you said you didn't talk with the FBI

546
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: that day. Did you talk to the FBI about the

547
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden laptop story prior to then or after that day?

548
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sure I can answer this question

549
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: consistent with the restrictions that I talked about in my

550
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: open simple questions. You talked the FBI about the Hunter

551
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: Biden story? I do, to the best of my recollection,

552
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: I did not talk to the FBI about the Hunter

553
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Biden story before that day. You talked to him after

554
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: you said you don't recalls? Is real? Your sponsors real?

555
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: Specific to the chairman. You said I did not talk

556
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: to the FBI about the Hunter Biden laptop story that day.

557
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: I assume that day is October fourteenth. I would know

558
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: if you talked to him on the thirteenth or before,

559
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: or if you talked to him on the fifteenth and after.

560
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: I don't recall speaking to the FBI. Sitting here today,

561
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't recall speaking to the FBI at all about

562
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden matter. But then why you answer, why

563
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: did you answer the way you did? A bigger partner

564
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: I you back think I don't recall the classic It

565
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: doesn't recall, doesn't recall anything great way to avoid a

566
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: perject some other information comes out later. I don't know

567
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: that's possible. I just happened to work for them. I

568
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: just happen to be good friends with all the people

569
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: who signed this BS letter, which says it has all

570
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: the hallmarks of Russian disinformation. I also happened to just

571
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: get fired from the FBI for, you know, lying to

572
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: an inspector general and for being all over Russia Gates way,

573
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: you know whatever, I don't recall. That's why I'm sitting

574
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: before you people today. I mean, it's so cool, like

575
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: it's so mucky and disgusting, and look, I wish we

576
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: could move past this, but it does matter. I mean,

577
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: you can't have these former cops, top law enforcement officials

578
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: then going to go work in the private sector taking

579
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: their cues in order to censor a legitimate story. We

580
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: always go back to this. Look, the day that the

581
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: story broke, we're like, yeah, I mean, we'll cover it tomorrow.

582
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: It was one of those things where it's like and again,

583
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: all the Biden coruption stuff actually hadn't come out. A

584
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: lot of it was more just like the original first exactly,

585
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: that's the first initial impression that we had, and we're like,

586
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, we'll cover it tomorrow. We were literally on

587
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: the air by the end of the day. You can't

588
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: click a link on it on Twitter, and now we

589
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: have to not even just have to talk about it.

590
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: That's a way bigger story, and really I think was

591
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: across the Rubicon moment for a lot of people, just

592
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: the extraordinary links that they would go to and listen.

593
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: What we're about to show you shows exactly why you

594
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: cannot let governments have this type of paths, right, You

595
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: can't because it just goes one of the it goes

596
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: down a very dangerous road. I saw AOC and I

597
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: saw Jamie Raskin both talking about like, there are so

598
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: many other things we could be doing with our time.

599
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: We could be focus on healthcare, jobs, et cetera, et cetera,

600
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: and agree like I definitely want the government to focus

601
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: on those issues as well. But I don't think you

602
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: can hand wave away how important you know, core speech

603
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: rights are, how important, like the core infrastructure of our

604
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: democracy ultimately is. And so even as if you believe,

605
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: as I do, that Republicans have basically partisan motives here,

606
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, the idea of a few billionaires in cahoots

607
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: with government into like a secret collaboration controlling the platforms

608
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: that millions and millions of Americans use to communicate, especially

609
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: about political topics. It's an important issue, so to just

610
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: handwave it away, and so there's so much more important

611
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: stuff we could talk about. I just don't agree with

612
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: that perspective whatsoever. Now to the point of the partisan

613
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: nature of this inquiry, little language warning here, but also

614
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: part of what came out is listen, it's not just

615
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: the Democrats, not their working the refs in terms of

616
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: Twitter and these other platforms, Republicans and specifically Donald Trump

617
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: were asking for certain content to be censored as well.

618
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to that. Earlier, you testified about

619
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: a twenty nineteen tweet that was about President Trump, and

620
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: I think it was from miss Tigan. What was the

621
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: tweet about? Would you like me to give the direct quote? Yeah,

622
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: please excuse my language, this is a direct quote. But

623
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: Chrissy Teagan referred to Donald Trump as a pussy ass bitch. Okay,

624
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: free speech? And what happened after Miss Tagan posted or tweet?

625
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: What did the White House do? What did the Trump

626
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: White House do? From my understanding, the White House reached

627
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: out to ask that this tweet be removed. It was

628
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: my team's job the spell underneath the policy for abusive behaviors,

629
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: and we evaluate it underneath our insults policy. At that time,

630
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: up to three insults were allowed, and so it was

631
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: our job to determine how many insults were included within

632
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: that phrase. So the Trump White House reached, not an agency,

633
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: but the White House reached out and requests that you

634
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: removed the tweet. From my understanding, yes, In any case, apparently,

635
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: according to this testimony, Donald Trump specifically asked for this

636
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Christy Tagan tweet to be taken down and censored based

637
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 1: on their hate speech policies. There's also been reporting from

638
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone that they had an entire database of Republican requests. Now,

639
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: some of those were requests of like, hey, this tweet

640
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been taken down, put it back up. Others

641
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: of them were things like this of you know, hey,

642
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: take this one down and violates the hate speech policy,

643
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: et cetera. But whether it was a request to bring

644
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: something back or take it off, all of this also

645
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: shows that Republicans were happy to use this sort of

646
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: elite access that they had to Twitter to work the

647
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: Russ's well, I also just hate the way he is

648
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: so bureaucratic. They're like, well, we have an insult policy.

649
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: You're allowed to have three ins. Oh why why are

650
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: we only allowed to have three ins? All right, sorry,

651
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: it's America. You know, some people are annoying and they're

652
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: allowed to say whatever they want. I just don't under

653
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: all of the bureaucracy that they invented. It was all fake.

654
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: You know. They're like our hack materials policies BS. You

655
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: literally make this stuff up on the spot, you know,

656
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's easier a free speech policy because then

657
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: you actually don't have to invent any of this other

658
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: nonsense in order to take stuff down. If it's illegal, okay,

659
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: take it down, everything else, leave it up there. It is.

660
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: It's just not difficult to actually figure out the solution

661
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: to this. It really does drive me crazy when I

662
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: listen to these people talk. Yeah, I mean, you've just

663
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: and part of the problem. Listen. I don't want to

664
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: make it like these decisions would always be clear cut.

665
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I think it's challenging. I think under even the best

666
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: of intentions, you are going to have borderline cases. You're

667
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: going to have issues where it doesn't fall on the

668
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: side of free speech. Is it too far as the stocks?

669
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: I mean, these are not simple questions to answer here.

670
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: But the total lack of transparency, the fact that this

671
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: is all happening in a black box, the fact that

672
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: you have powerful government elites and agencies like the FBI

673
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: collaborating to work the refs to get their interpretation of

674
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: the rules imposed on all this and again all happening

675
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: in secret. That is a major major problem for our

676
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: democracy when these tools are so core to speech at

677
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: this point, so actually saw Corey Bush, Congressman, make a

678
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: good point about how, in her view, there should be

679
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: some sort of public ownership so that you have some

680
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: sort of democratic accountability. In my opinion, that's the only

681
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: direction to actually solve these problems. The other direction to

682
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: go and would be to break up some of these

683
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: platforms so that they have less individual power. But I

684
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: think the bottom line, whatever you think the right solution

685
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: is here, the bottom line is having this kind of

686
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: power consolidated in the hands of a few totally unaccountable

687
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: people in it all happening in secret, is a disaster

688
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: for absolutely everybody. Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, let's move on speaking

689
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: of technology and what some of the possible potential designs

690
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: are potential disasters. All of that big war breaking out

691
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: right now between Microsoft and Google with being and the

692
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: incorporation of AI, specifically chat GPT, which Microsoft has invested

693
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: some ten billion dollars into the open AI platform. The

694
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: CEO of Microsoft, Satya and Nadella, just gave an interview

695
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 1: specifically about how they planned to take on Google. Here's

696
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: what he had to say. I mean, look, I have

697
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: the greatest of admirations for Google and what they've done,

698
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: and you know, the their unbelievable company with great talent,

699
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 1: and you know, and I have a lot of respect

700
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: for Sondara and his team, so therefore, I just want

701
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: us to innovate, right, so there's always I mean, we compete.

702
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: Today today was a day where we brought some more

703
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: competition to Search. We've been added, believe me, I've been

704
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: added for twenty years and I've been waiting for it.

705
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: But look, at the end of the day, let's not

706
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, we they are the eight hundred pound gorilla

707
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: on this which is what they are. And I hope

708
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: that with our innovation, they will definitely want to come

709
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: out and show that they can dance. And I want

710
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: people to know that we made them dance, and I

711
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: think that'll be a great day. I want people to

712
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: know that we made them. Guess what they are dancing.

713
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: I can tell you that. Let's put this up there

714
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: on the screen. Google is now unveiling its new AI

715
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: powered search and map features. After all of the Microsoft

716
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: announcements about how they're gonna use open Ai and incorporate

717
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: it into the Microsoft Team Suite, into Microsoft Office. Now

718
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: it's all about the war for search. So I tried

719
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: this morning. I actually downloaded the bing app and tried

720
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: some of the new bing ai stuff. It hasn't been

721
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: rolled out yet to the general public, but I was

722
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: looking at some tech journalists that they gave some of

723
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: the AI capabilities too. Yeah, I gotta be honest, it

724
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: looks cool, like you can you know, it's just like

725
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: chat GPT. You can literally go into being be like,

726
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: write me what is the best way to brew French

727
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: press coffee or something like that, instead of a link

728
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: to some recipe dot com. Yeah, it gives you it's like, well,

729
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: you know, here's the best thing to do. It was like, wow,

730
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: that's kind of cool. Who is you know? So and

731
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: so helped me get from point A to point B

732
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: with you know, saving the most amount of gas and

733
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: it spits it all out creaming. It could be a

734
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: game changer. It really could. Like this could resuscitate bing

735
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: big league. I really think so. I think so too. Reportedly.

736
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean it's funny that Google just like jumped down

737
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: literally the next thing. We're like, ah, we're doing it too.

738
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: We got the same thing. But I mean, reportedly, their

739
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: technology is not as far along. I've tried, but it's

740
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: just not as good. It's not as good as what

741
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: open Ai was able to create with chat GPT. So

742
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: microsoftware once got a big leg up. I think in

743
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: terms of Google, I think it's hard to wrap your

744
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: head around how transformative this could potentially be. I mean,

745
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: when you think about it as you described it, like, oh,

746
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: is that really a big deal that when I ask

747
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: for like, oh, what's the best pizza place in DC?

748
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: Instead of getting a list of links with articles or

749
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: different restaurants, I mean, oftentimes if you're searching on Google,

750
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: what you're going to get is a lot of paid

751
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: advertisements for pizza in DC. Instead of getting that, you're

752
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,439
Speaker 1: going to get an actual, like written paragraph that has

753
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: internalized all of this information to give you an actual,

754
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: more human response like that's cool. But the other piece

755
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: of this is when you think about so I was

756
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about the news industry, because obviously that's

757
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: what I'm most familiar with. You know, if you are

758
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: going to them and you're saying, like tell me about

759
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: Zelenski's trip to the UK, You're not going to then

760
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: have to go and click through an article on the

761
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: Daily Beast, NPR, CNN, wherever they're going to have an

762
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: article sort of taking all of that information together and

763
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: present it to you. Well, what does that mean? That

764
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 1: means why are you going to pay for a paywall

765
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: for any of these news organizations. You're not clicking through

766
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: to their website, so you're not seeing whatever ads have

767
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: been paid to be placed on these websites. So this

768
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: could really upend the business model for news. It could

769
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: really undermine the business model for online news in particular.

770
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: And I think what's very likely to happen is look,

771
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: the New York Times, Washington Post, like the big boys,

772
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 1: the AP, the Reuters. They're going to be fine because

773
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: they do that original report. They're so large, they have

774
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: so many resources behind them. But I suspect this is

775
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: going to kill a lot of news outlets ultimately. I mean,

776
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: you already start to see the beginnings of that BuzzFeed

777
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: laid off what twelve percent of their workforce or whatever.

778
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: They're already leaning on chat GPT to write the articles.

779
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: But it's not just that. It's not just that some

780
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: of the just you know, sort of baseline blocking and

781
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: tackling of regurgitating articles based on what's already been produced

782
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: by other journalists is going to be now automated. It's

783
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: also the fact that if you are searching for news,

784
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: many fewer people are going to actually click through the articles.

785
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: They are going to rely on what bing and Chat

786
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: GPT ultimately tells them is going on. So this could

787
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: be this could be revolutionary. It could be a massive

788
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: disruption in terms of journalism and the news media. Oh absolutely.

789
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: And already you know you're seeing the business incentives. The

790
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: Alphabet stock the parent company of Google drop by seven

791
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: percent on the news of this, and Microsoft already you

792
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: know where I think the biggest innovation is going to

793
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: come is going to be in the team suite, Like

794
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: what I was looking at in terms of how I

795
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: don't use Microsoft teams, but I know a lot of

796
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: you office workers do. And for the chat function and

797
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: all that stuff, they're going to do AI generated chats

798
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: where if you ask something, AI will draft an email

799
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: for you, they'll draft a response for you. You You can

800
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: imagine already. I mean for a customer service perspective, we

801
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: already have to do customer service here. It's a pain

802
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: in the ass sometimes and just you know, figuring out

803
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: somebody's exact issue you have AI generated you know, somebody's

804
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: like I don't know how to connect to the podcast

805
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: player and immediately just replies with a spit out function form.

806
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: You can imagine a lot of people, including us, would

807
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: absolutely pay something like that if you think about so

808
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: much of what that would mean at you know, the

809
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: big big companies, places like Salesforce and others who entire

810
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: jobs is literally just data organization deploying for business purposes.

811
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: The ability to have search function. It would eliminate so

812
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: much data entry. I mean, there's the sky is the

813
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: limit here, I think yeah for that, And then you know,

814
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: education and businesses where I think this is going to

815
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: have the biggest impact. But culturally you are right. I mean,

816
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: for the news business, this is bad. Yeah, this is

817
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: real bad. The other thing that I'm really just starting

818
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: to wrap my head around is, you know, it seems like, okay,

819
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: it's AI. It's just like gobbling up all of this

820
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: information and producing for you like what it has internalized

821
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: based on what's out there. But there are also human beings,

822
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: programmers and executives behind the scenes who are making certain

823
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: rules about how this operates, what type of information it

824
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: puts out, what type of information it takes in, and

825
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: all of those things will ultimately shave you know, when

826
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: you ask it, for example, what happened with the nord

827
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: Stream pipeline. Who sabotaged it? Well, what kind of a

828
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: response are you going to get if the bulk of

829
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: the reporting initially was it was Russia, it was Russia,

830
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: it was Russia, We're sure it was Russia, Russia had

831
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 1: the motive, etc. And you have just a few lonely

832
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: reports that are like, hey, we didn't find any evidence

833
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: it was Russia. And by the way, here's a Pulitzer

834
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: Prize winning journalist who has a long story about how

835
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: they think it is actually the US. What is the

836
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: definitive response that's ultimately going to be put out there.

837
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: So that's another piece of this that I think we're

838
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: only starting to really dig into and think about, is

839
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: none of this stuff is just neutrals. It all is

840
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 1: driven by decisions that are being made by human beings

841
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. And so, just like when we were

842
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: talking about Twitter and algorithm and banning and how censorship

843
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: all those things work on those platforms, having a level

844
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: of transparency around the way that chat GBT is developed,

845
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: around the parameters that exist for what sorts of results

846
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: it produces, is going to be equally important, and I

847
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: think also you can see the way that this can

848
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: lead to further industry consolidation, both in the news industry

849
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 1: also in the tech industry. I mean, if you've got

850
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: Microsoft and Google that are miles ahead of everybody else

851
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: in terms of their technology, what do you think that

852
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: that's ultimately going to mean for literally any other player

853
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: in the space. It's a big question. Nobody knows. There's

854
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: already a lot of controversy online around chat GPT and

855
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: trying to ask it, you know, questions and go against

856
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 1: social orthodoxy and answers like I don't know. I'm staying

857
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: away from that one. Yeah, it's not great, that's probably

858
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: the best That might be the best direction to go

859
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: is rather than you know, opining I don't know. Yeah,

860
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: let's go to the next one on zoom and big

861
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: layoffs continuing in the tech industry. eBay latest company, let's

862
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen. They're laying off

863
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: five hundred workers for four percent in total of its

864
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: overall workforce. So why does that matter? Well, that of

865
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: course shows e commerce and it's just another example of

866
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: major tech companies that are having to lay off some workers.

867
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: He said that the company had to do layoffs after

868
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: examining the macroeconomic environment over the past several months, and

869
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: he said that the cuts will strengthen eBay's ability to

870
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: deliver better experiences for its customers, and they are just

871
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: going to try and focus on the areas where they

872
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: make the most impact, not the only one. The biggest

873
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: probably is the next one here. Let's put it up

874
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: there on the screen. Zoom. Now Zoom is a is

875
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: announcing layoffs, and that it's CEO is going to cut

876
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of his pay, including some thirteen hundred

877
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: employees or about fifteen percent of its overall workforce. That

878
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: isn't just us, that's global in terms of all the

879
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: people who will be laid off. But I mean, that

880
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: is just insane. And you know, look, by the way,

881
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: his salary was three hundred thousand dollars, so you know,

882
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent cut goes down to six. But in

883
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: terms of stock and all that he's doing just fine.

884
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,919
Speaker 1: For the people who are at the company and they're

885
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: losing their wages and their jobs, it's really not And

886
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, I mean, Zoom and Peloton

887
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: were like the quintessential pandemic stocks like this is it.

888
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 1: It's going to blow the door off. Work has changed forever,

889
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, actually, it turns out a lot

890
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: of people really like hybrid work. Sure, zoom usage is up,

891
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: but is it going to take over the world in

892
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: the way that people thought, like, no, absolutely not. It

893
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: was one of those completely narrative driven things. And so

894
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: they expanded big time. They had all this stock they

895
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: had is cash infusion, and unfortunately, you know, now they're

896
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: going to have to lay off a lot of people.

897
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: But overall, you were just looking at the cost of

898
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: cheap money of like a lot of excitement and all

899
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: that was happening in twenty twenty, and when the dam

900
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: bursts in the Federal Reserve raise rates, a lot of

901
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: people got laid off in the process. Yeah, I mean,

902
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: and you had a huge, huge stock market, you know,

903
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: spikes that were driving these mass evaluations that led to

904
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: a lot of companies, a lot of tech companies in particular,

905
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: that were like the pandemic stocks, a lot of them

906
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: adding thousands of workers and getting a bit out over

907
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: their skis. Now they all will pollow or sorry, we

908
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: expanded too fast, But I'm sure that's cold comfort of

909
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: the workers that are losing their livelihood right now. I

910
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: think there's a few things to say about this. I

911
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: thought Derek Thompson when we had him on, he sort

912
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: of dug into what's going on with the tech session.

913
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: Part of it is just like what we said, these

914
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 1: were pandemic stocks that when people were at home, they're

915
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: ordering this and that online and they're doing all their

916
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 1: on Zoom and whatever. These things blew up big and

917
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: they're watching Netflix. And now that we're getting back to

918
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: a more sort of normal time, there has been a

919
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: natural recession in terms of what's going on with these

920
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: tech companies. That's part of it. Part of it. He

921
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: thinks it could be a kind of groupthink where you

922
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: see other companies doing it, and by the way, you

923
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: see them being rewarded with their stock price bumping up

924
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: when they lay off workers, which is kind of gross,

925
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: but that's the way our economy works, and so that

926
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: creates an incentive to follow along and say, you know what,

927
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm also going to cut five percent of my workforce

928
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: and try to get that stock bump, which ennoors to

929
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: executive benefits and shareholder benefits as well. So that could

930
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: also be part of what's going on here, but it

931
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: is part of my monologue today. I'm talking about some

932
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: of the weirdness in the economy, and this is one

933
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: of the stories that is part of that weirdness because

934
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: at the same time as we're seeing these hundreds and

935
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of tech workers being laid off, we're

936
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: also seeing lowest unemployment since nineteen sixty nine. Isn't that

937
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: what it's So it's it's a strange story. And of

938
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: course the tech growth of the tech sector has been

939
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: what has undergirded the rise of an upper middle class.

940
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: So much of our economy and our culture is geared

941
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: towards that upper middle class. And now that you see,

942
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, a recession in this one particular sector, that

943
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: is undoubtedly going to have some you know, sort of

944
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: trickle I don't want to use the term trickle down,

945
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: but it's going to have cascading ramifications, let's say that.

946
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: And at the same time, what's growing is actually jobs

947
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: at the bottom end of the spectrum of service sector jobs,

948
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: and then also more sort of middle skill nursing and

949
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: healthcare jobs as well. So it's it's a strange time

950
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: where the upper middle class has kind of taken a haircut. Actually,

951
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: the very wealthy have taken a huge haircut because of

952
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: how much they're invested in the stock market, and the

953
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: people in the bottom quintile, because the labor market is

954
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: so tight, have at least gotten a little bit of

955
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: a pay raise. Now. Is not enough to make up

956
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: for four years to get screwed over, not even cold.

957
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: But it is a little bit of a rebalancing that's

958
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: happening right now. I guess how I would put it,

959
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: No question, it's a really weird situation. I'm looking forward

960
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: to your monologue on it. Yeah, I'm going to figure

961
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: it all out for you, guys. Don't worry, all right,

962
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: So let's talk about our former president here and what

963
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: he's up to. We referenced this on our State of

964
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: the Union live stream. By the way, thanks to all

965
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: of you guys for joining us. We had a lot

966
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: of fun that night, great insights from our friends at

967
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: Counterpoints and Colin Marshall as well. Okay, so let's go

968
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen. From Trump, he

969
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 1: is going after DeSantis, alleging that he was grooming high

970
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: school girls. He reposted a photo that purported to show

971
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: DeSantis while he was a I think twenty three year

972
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 1: old teacher drinking and partying with his high school students.

973
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: This is something that's been passed around previously, but Trump

974
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: added his own, his own flare to it. He reposted

975
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: the photograph and he said, or is it here? Here

976
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: the photo that had originally like the post original, he said,

977
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: here's Rond to sanctimonious grooming high school girls with alcohol

978
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: as a teacher. And he said, that's not Ron, is it?

979
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: He would never do such a thing. So that was

980
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: the Trump side of the equation. Many have pointed out

981
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: that with all of the photos of Trump with Epstein,

982
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, maybe this isn't like clean blow to land

983
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: on Ron to sanctimonius here. But Trump has never been

984
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: one to worry about whether he's going to be called

985
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: a hypocrite, so he's going all in. No, certainly not.

986
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: This is the thing with Trump. No matter what, you

987
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: can try and stay out of the gutter, you can

988
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 1: try and stay out of the muck, he will bring

989
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,959
Speaker 1: you down with him. And I thought that was really

990
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: evident in the DeSantis response to all this. Just he

991
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: addressed yesterday, Let's take a listen. I'm an a former

992
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: President Trump yesterday made a series of post on true

993
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: social directed at you. Some were insinuating that. So here

994
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: here's what I'd say about all that. Again, I get

995
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: you guys want the controversy. So would your proposal legislation

996
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: against defamation address those posts could be considered damaged? Well

997
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: if you think. When we did the defamation panel yesterday,

998
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: I made the point. Look, I have a platform. It's

999
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: different for me because I can fight back, and people

1000
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: just know I face defamatory stuff every single day I've

1001
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: been governor. That's just the nature of it. But I

1002
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: have a platform to fight back. A lot of these

1003
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: other people that are more little, they don't necessarily have

1004
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: a platform to fight back. And so in terms of

1005
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: our reforms, I really want to empower them more so

1006
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: than people that occupy high positions like me. It just

1007
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: goes with the territory. You gotta have a thick skin.

1008
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: It's also just practically speaking, I would not take time

1009
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: out of being governor to be fighting lawsuits. It's just

1010
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: not practical in terms of what we're doing. But I'd

1011
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: also just say this, I spend my time delivering results

1012
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: for the people of Florida and fighting against Joe Biden,

1013
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: That's how I spend my time. Not a bad response.

1014
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: He tries to take the high road. I just don't

1015
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: think it's possible, especially if he's ever going to run

1016
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: for president. I mean, it's possible, we could see it.

1017
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: We have some polling data that kind of is all

1018
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: over the place and indicate some things. And otherwise. Of course,

1019
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: he's a strong and a beloved figure, but so is Trump.

1020
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: And Trump just has a unique ability also to just

1021
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: get under someone's skin. The reason also why he's doing

1022
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: this is he's warning DeSantis. He's like, this what you're

1023
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: in for. Ye. He's like, this is a tiny little

1024
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: taste of what's going to happen if you run against me.

1025
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean that's I actually thought DeSantis's response was probably

1026
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: the right note to strike. You can't say nothing, because

1027
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: then you just look like you're getting owned, Like you

1028
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: look weak, right. But you also, I mean, in my opinion,

1029
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: if he had really gotten into the mud and like

1030
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, talked about Epstein or whatever and like taking

1031
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: some direct shots, I think that's also not going to

1032
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: work out well for you, because there's no one better

1033
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: at this thing than Donald Trump. So to say, basically, look,

1034
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm focused on delivering results. And by the way, I

1035
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: don't spend my time, you know, trashing other Republicans or

1036
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: smearing other Republicans. However he put it, I think that's

1037
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: probably the best he could do right now. But I

1038
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: also is not clear to me that Ron DeSantis is

1039
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: ready for this. And I was thinking back to the

1040
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: glorious twenty sixteen Republican primary debates, and I mean, you know,

1041
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: Jeb Bush, all of them, Marco Rubil, all of them

1042
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to handle Trump, and they

1043
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: just failed so badly. Jub getting up there and being like,

1044
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: you need to apologize to my wife, and Trump's of

1045
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: course like, no, not going to do it. Marco Rubio

1046
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: trying to like get in there for making comments about like, oh,

1047
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: your dick is small or whatever. I mean, none of

1048
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: this worked out for them whatsoever. And so it's a

1049
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: very difficult thing when you're head to head with him,

1050
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: face to face with him on a debate stage. And

1051
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 1: by the way, all of these other also ran Snikkiy Haley,

1052
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: Mike Pence, Mike Pompeio, whatever, Chris the New News they

1053
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: can are running now. None of these people have a

1054
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: prayer of facing this guy down on a debate stage

1055
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: and like making this work for them. So so anyway,

1056
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: this is big time warning shots from Trump at DeSantis

1057
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: in terms of, hey, buddy, you ready for this, because

1058
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: this is what is coming at you and so much worse.

1059
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: There was other weirdness though from Trump. No one saw

1060
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 1: this coming. On the night of Biden's State of the Union,

1061
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: go and put this up on the screen. He was

1062
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 1: posting on Truth's social these like sort of nice comments

1063
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: about Biden. He says, Look, he worked hard tonight. It's

1064
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: not a natural thing for him. It never was, it

1065
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: never will be. But you've got to give him credit

1066
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: for trying. I disagree with him on most of his policies,

1067
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: but he put into words what he felt and he

1068
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: ended up the evening far stronger than he began. Give

1069
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 1: him credit for that. Many things weren't mentioned that should

1070
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: have been, but that's for another time. I've done a

1071
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: little clip. Perhaps you'd like to watch it. Good Night, everybody,

1072
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: and God bless America. And that wasn't all. He also

1073
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: posted Biden's doing better now, far fewer stumbles, and his

1074
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: wife Jill is looking lovely tonight in beautiful purple dress,

1075
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: clapping and applauding with great enthusiasm. I don't know. I

1076
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: was Kyle and I were debating whether this is somehow

1077
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: strategic or whether this is just Trump, you know, opining

1078
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: off the cuff as he does and not like really

1079
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: thinking that hard about it. He also put in a

1080
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: video that was much harder hitting and you know, aggressive

1081
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: and negative on the Biden speech. So there were there

1082
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: were sort of two sides of the coin there. But

1083
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, what did you think about the soger.

1084
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: I just think Trump likes to be a color commentator,

1085
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: and you know, his most natural role is like cultural critic.

1086
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: I always actually so true, you know, whenever I used

1087
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: to interview him, I used to think about that. I

1088
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: be you know, he's not just the president, like he's

1089
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: Donald j. You know, he's Trump, and Trump to me

1090
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: is a cultural figure much more than he ever was

1091
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: a political figure. Part of why he ever even became president.

1092
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: He loves to be the cultural commentary. Yeah, my firsonal favorite,

1093
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: which is like Jade Vance looking great tonight. You know,

1094
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: it was like, what what are you doing? He's like

1095
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: sitting there watching TV, just live tweeting it. But you know,

1096
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's who the man is. This

1097
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 1: is a very clear view into it. Yeah, So Kyle

1098
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: Sarry was that he's doing like a little bit of

1099
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: a face turn because he realizes that he has appear

1100
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: somewhat less crazy so that Republicans will think he's like electable.

1101
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: But personally, I don't think there's those levels of chess

1102
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: going on. I think he's just saying what he felt

1103
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: in the moment and yeah, and not putting all that

1104
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: much thought into it. So anyway, in terms of the

1105
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: state of the overall race, here's just some of the

1106
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: numbers that are coming on. Again, I cannot possibly overstate

1107
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: how all over the place the poles are of the

1108
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: Republican primary right now. Some of them have Trump up

1109
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: by thirty points, some of them have DeSantis up by

1110
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: close to that. And you know, the state poles tend

1111
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: to show Winford DeSantis. Some of them show DeSantis doing

1112
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 1: well if it's just a head to head, but then

1113
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: losing if it's a wider field. They are all over

1114
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: the map. In any case, here's the latest one. This

1115
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: from morning Console is put this up on the screen.

1116
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: They're doing their primary tracker as they did last time around.

1117
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: This one has a wide field they tested. Trump comes

1118
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 1: in at forty nine percent, DeSantis thirty one percent. Next

1119
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 1: down the list is Mike Pence seven percent, Nikki Haley three,

1120
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: Lisz Cheney two, Ted Cruz two, et cetera, et cetera,

1121
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: et cetera. So basically the only real players are Trump

1122
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: and DeSantis. Mike Pence getting is seven to ten percent.

1123
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: That actually seems pretty consistent from pole to poll does.

1124
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: But the margin between Trump and DeSantis and who is

1125
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: on top, I just don't know what to make of

1126
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: it because the poles. One day, I'll see one that

1127
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: has Desanti's way up, next day way up, and they'll

1128
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: be supposedly similar samples from similarly sort of placed polsters,

1129
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 1: and I literally don't know what to make of it. Yeah,

1130
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: I mean, there was another one that came out late

1131
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: last night that we weren't able to cut, which showed

1132
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: DeSantis forty five forty one actually beating Trump, but only

1133
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: in a head a head Yeah, and so if Nikki Haley,

1134
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: Mike Pens and others all ran, then it actually showed

1135
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: that Trump would win. Shocker. Yeah, exactly what we've been

1136
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: talking about. And by the way that is almost certainly

1137
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 1: going to happen, because Nikki Haley is basically a leaked

1138
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: to the entire press score that she's going to announce

1139
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: in like six days for president. Yeah's announced it next week, Yeah, exactly.

1140
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: So it's over like it's gonna happen. Some of the

1141
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: anti Trump vote then is going to get blood off,

1142
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: and guess what's gonna happen. Trump is gonna win. So

1143
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: that scenario just looks overwhelmingly more likely. Chris Nunu of

1144
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: New Hampshire, Yeah, appears like he is also moving towards

1145
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: a run, which I mean you might be like, who

1146
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: and what and why do I care? I mean, the

1147
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: reason it's significant is because New Hampshire obviously is a

1148
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: key or a Lee primary state, and so if you're

1149
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: and I also think it's a state where DeSantis does

1150
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: appear to be pulling well in terms of these early polls.

1151
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: So if Sununu is able to like rob DeSantis of

1152
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: that potential win, it could end up being significant. So

1153
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: that's another one that I'm sort of taking a look at.

1154
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: And there's also reporting this morning which we've kind of

1155
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, already touched on here as well. That there

1156
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: is a bit of a freak out among the Republican

1157
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: donor set in particular, and like official Republican establishment types,

1158
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure out they believe that Trump

1159
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: is very beatable, that Biden would have a good shot

1160
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: at beating him and would struggle with other candidates. By

1161
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: the way, the White House thinks the same thing. They

1162
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: think Trump is the easiest path for them ultimately to

1163
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: win reelect. I don't know. I mean, that's probably right,

1164
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: but I also always caution against underestimating Donald Trump. But

1165
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: there are efforts to behind the scenes from Coke Network,

1166
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: Americans for Prosperity, Chamber of comm or like all these

1167
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: group Club for Growth, that's the other big one, to

1168
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: try to come up with some strategy to perhaps unite

1169
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: behind one candidate, most likely Weron DeSantis, to try to

1170
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: take out Trump. But you know, these other candidates are

1171
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: obviously not following the game plan, if the game plan

1172
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: is to consolidate against one person, because they're already building

1173
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: their own networks and planning their own campaigns and unlikely

1174
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: to be swayed by that. Absolutely all right, last thing

1175
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: here for you, we took note of quite a remarkable

1176
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: bit of commentary following Joe Biden State of the Union speech.

1177
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: This was over on Fox News. Harold Ford Junior. I

1178
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys remember this guy. It was

1179
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: a Democratic congressman. He's always sort of like positioned himself

1180
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: as a moderate slash corporus kind of a guy. Here's

1181
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: what he had to say in critique of Joe Biden's speech. Harold,

1182
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about polls right before the midterms,

1183
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: and they didn't turn out how Republicans thought they were

1184
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: going to with Democrats outperforming where they were, and that

1185
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: has emboldened this president and this White House. Look we

1186
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: talk about his energy and Larry touch On, he's eighty

1187
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: years old. It took him thirty minutes to get out

1188
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: that chamber. He even said another thirty minutes. Sayd they

1189
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: not gabbled the thing down. I agree with you, Lar,

1190
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: I don't like when American presidents pit US companies against people.

1191
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: I know what the President's trying to get it, but

1192
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: we need a fair tax system. But Farmer was good

1193
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: to us during COVID. Big oil is important to us

1194
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: as we now find ourselves at a war, in a

1195
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine. So I think that that us supposed

1196
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: to zim thing is not necessarily a thing to do.

1197
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: But we need a fair tax code. Even you and

1198
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: I start talking about how we could agree with the

1199
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: medicaid expansion by making work requirements. Those are the things

1200
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: I need. I agree with you. Yeah, he agrees. You

1201
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,959
Speaker 1: know what, we really agree with it. We all got

1202
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: to just get together. He stop pitting companies against people.

1203
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: And big Pharmer they were good to us, Big Oil

1204
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: they were good to us too. Oh my god, I

1205
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: don't even know. Like that is probably what the most

1206
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: perfect distillation of corporatism. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah,

1207
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: that was a former It used to be a real

1208
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: Morning Joe. Regular guys literally don't or was. It's like,

1209
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: what are you doing? And yeah, it's insanity that anybody

1210
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: would think that way. It's also a perfect example, by

1211
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: the way, Larry Kudlow used picked by Trump why because

1212
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: he supposedly looks good and does well on television. I

1213
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: don't really know where anyone got that idea, but that's

1214
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: what they believe. That's it. Big Pharma was good to

1215
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: us during the pandemic. How can you possibly believe that,

1216
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: like Pfizer, let's keep in mind Pfeiser very good to us,

1217
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: yea set to increase the price of the vaccine by

1218
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: four hundred percent. People. So the idea that these companies

1219
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: are like, oh, they're just out there for the good

1220
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: of their Okay, they made so much money off of

1221
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: the backs of US taxpayers based on by the way,

1222
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: research that was originally funded, the technology originally funded that

1223
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: you know, this research came from US taxpayers. So, I mean,

1224
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: it's just it's just a blatant display of corporatism. It

1225
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: reminded me, Sager of our favorite Stephanie Ruhle moment where

1226
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: it's like, of all the things that you could criticize

1227
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: Biden for this speech, this is what you're upset about. Like,

1228
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: that's the best part of the speech. That he's going

1229
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: after these people who have been screwed over the American public,

1230
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: who've been price gouging them, jacking up their prices and

1231
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: pretending like, oh, it's just inflation while their profit margines

1232
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: go through the roof. That's he needs to lean into

1233
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: that more. And so it reminds me of Stephanie Rule

1234
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: when he said something about you know, Main Street and

1235
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: Wall Street and whatever, and she went on her whole,

1236
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: like I don't live on Park Avenue, but I live

1237
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: pretty close, and you know I got there because I

1238
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: worked my butt off, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

1239
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: So they take umbrage at like, actually the better things

1240
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: that Biden does and completely ignore the failings. It's an

1241
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: amazing moment. It's one of those where I'm never going

1242
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: to get I can't imagine going to national television and

1243
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: then be like, you know what, I got to stick

1244
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: up for big Farba. Yeah, well, it'd be worth taking

1245
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: a look at it x. I guess I was going

1246
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: to say, be worth taking a look at, like who's

1247
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: he lobbing for these days? What kind of boards is

1248
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: he sitting on? There might be some financial disclosures that

1249
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: may need to be made there as well. These people

1250
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: are so shameless, Cristal, were we taking a look at

1251
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: it was the best of time? It was the worst

1252
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: of times. One of the strangest features of the very

1253
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: strange time that we are living in is the bizarre

1254
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: mixed bag which is our current economy. Is it terrible?

1255
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: Is it phenomenal? Kind of depends on what metric you're

1256
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: looking at, who you ask and what factors weigh most

1257
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: heavily for you and your analysis. So I wanted to

1258
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: spend some time today digging into the confusion and exposing

1259
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: the reality, a reality that most Americans are experiencing as

1260
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: deeply painful, even as the White House does a victory lap.

1261
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: So we've got split screens of record breaking job numbers

1262
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: and catastrophic layoffs. Joe Biden, as he laid out in

1263
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: the State of the Union addressed Tuesday night, plans to

1264
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: run on a strong economy bolstered by new manufacturing jobs

1265
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: with the Inflation Reduction Act, while Republicans plan to run

1266
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: against him on how the economy is actually terrible and

1267
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: people are struggling with high inflation, So what the hell

1268
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,439
Speaker 1: is actually going on? Well, first, we've got to set

1269
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: some standards here of what it would mean to have

1270
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: a quote unquote good economy. I certainly don't judge by

1271
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: the stock market or corporate profits, but I also don't

1272
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: judge it by the unemployment rate alone. After all, if

1273
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of jobs but they're all crappy jobs,

1274
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: I would not call that a strong economy. What I

1275
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: care about is how your average working class citizen is doing,

1276
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: How stretched, and how stressed they are, how easily they

1277
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: can afford the basics of his stable existence, food, shelter, healthcare.

1278
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:18,919
Speaker 1: When I look at the data there, it is a

1279
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: pretty ugly picture across the board. First of all, we

1280
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: should listen to what Americans themselves are saying about their

1281
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: own economic situation, and by large numbers, they say it

1282
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 1: absolutely sucks. Forty one percent of respondents in a New

1283
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: Washington Post ABC newspoles say they are worse off since

1284
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 1: Biden took office. Only sixteen percent say they're actually better off.

1285
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: Those are the worst readings on that metric in the

1286
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: history of that poll, dating back thirty seven years record breaking.

1287
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: Voters also give Biden poor marks for his handling of

1288
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: the economy. He only has a thirty seven percent approval

1289
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: rating there. It makes sense, then, that voters buy a

1290
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: wide margin say their top priority right now is strengthening

1291
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: the economy. Seventy five percent of all voters name suggest

1292
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: this as a top priority for the President and Congress.

1293
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: The next highest priority, at sixty percent, is ways to

1294
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: reduce health care cost, another economic issue. But maybe these

1295
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: voted are I'll just listen in a Fox News buying

1296
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: into their gloom and their economic doom. Well, here are

1297
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: some hard numbers that make a case for much more

1298
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: than an economic mass delusion. First of all, sixty four

1299
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: percent of all Americans say they are living paycheck to paycheck.

1300
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: That is an increase of nine point three million Americans

1301
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: who are living hand to mouth as compared to twenty

1302
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: twenty one, and it is also one of the highest

1303
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: levels ever recorded. That squeeze is showing up in consumer

1304
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: spending numbers. Americans just don't have the cash to make

1305
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: the purchases that they were making just a year ago.

1306
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 1: Here's the Wall Street Journal with some details. Quote, retail

1307
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: purchases have fallen in three of the past four months.

1308
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: Spending on services, including rent, haircuts, and the bulk of

1309
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: bills was flat in December after adjusting for inflation, the

1310
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: worst monthly reading in nearly a year. Sales of existing

1311
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: homes in the US fell last year to their lowest

1312
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: level since twenty fourteen as mortgage rates runs. The auto

1313
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: industry posted its worst sales year in more than a decade.

1314
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 1: The share of monthly income that American set aside for

1315
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: savings was three point four percent in December. That's down

1316
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: from seven point five percent just a year earlier, and

1317
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: from a record high back in April of twenty twenty.

1318
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: So consumers have cut back, but even with those cutbacks,

1319
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: credit card debt is skyrocketing. It also actually hit a

1320
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: new record. This is particularly painful right now since the

1321
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: Fed's interest rate heights have led to a spike in

1322
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: credit card interest rates. These numbers all together they tell

1323
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: a really grim tail of how the American consumer is doing.

1324
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: They are being forced to spend down their meager savings

1325
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: and take on a debt load that has just been

1326
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: made much more expensive thanks to high interest rates. In fact,

1327
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: credit card balances have jumped fifteen percent year over year.

1328
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: That's the largest increase in more than twenty years now.

1329
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: The key problem here causing all of these issues is

1330
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: a really simple one. Wages are too low and costs

1331
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: are too high. And actually, as much as this economic

1332
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: moment does feel really weird, this is not a new

1333
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: problem at all. As with so many current problems, the

1334
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: pandemic revealed and accelerated a lot of trends which already

1335
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: existed over the past forty years. As union power has declined,

1336
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: wages have stagnated, and worker's share of the pie has

1337
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: decreased corporations, they were able to rake in record profits

1338
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: and give the people who actually work to generate those

1339
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: profits the short end of the stick. Now you can

1340
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: see in this chart how workers produce more and more,

1341
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: but their hourly compensation barely budged. Wages were flat, but

1342
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: costs certainly don't stop going up, especially cost of education,

1343
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 1: cost of health care, cost of housing. I know we

1344
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 1: like to pretend that inflation just started in the past

1345
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: couple of years, but in reality, when it comes to

1346
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: the basic building blocks of a stable middle class life,

1347
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: inflation has been ripping American families to shreds for decades

1348
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: now and now as inflation soared, also in goods across

1349
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: the board, and pandemic era relief programs all expired. This

1350
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: dire situation has left Americans desperate and left them really

1351
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: cash strapped. There's actually some conflicting data about whether or

1352
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: not wages have kept up with inflation in the post

1353
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: pandemic era. The answer may look different depending on where

1354
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: you are on the income ladder. But what's not in

1355
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: doubt is that there are no more checks coming, no

1356
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 1: more expanded child tax credit, no more pandemic loans, to

1357
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: help people deal with what has actually been a forty

1358
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: year disaster in the making. So the economic crisis today,

1359
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 1: in reality, it's the same crisis that has been building

1360
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,759
Speaker 1: and building and building my entire life. It's a crisis

1361
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: of jobs that don't pay people enough to be able

1362
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 1: to live, an economy that often turns out a lot

1363
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 1: of low paid, precarious service sector or gig work employment,

1364
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: but doesn't allow you to escape the cycle of scraping

1365
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: by paycheck to paycheck. High inflation and dramatic cust to

1366
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: social spending have just brought all of this pain to

1367
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: the surface. So who are you going to believe, Joe

1368
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 1: Biden or your lying bank account? And Zaga the backdrop

1369
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: of course for all of this. And if you want

1370
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium

1371
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com. All right, Zacher, what

1372
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 1: are you looking at? Well? When the Biden administration signed

1373
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: the Inflation Reduction Act, which significantly increased funding for the IRS,

1374
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 1: they made a promise taxes would not go up on

1375
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,759
Speaker 1: people making below four hundred thousand dollars a year or more.

1376
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,640
Speaker 1: The increased funding for agents would be solely dedicated to

1377
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,640
Speaker 1: going after wealthy tax cheats, who, by some estimation, have

1378
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: skipped out on hundreds of billions of dollars in unpaid

1379
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: taxes they legally owe over the last few decades. It

1380
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: is something Biden has stuck to and touted, including in

1381
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: his State of the Union addressed Here was his promise. Again,

1382
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,799
Speaker 1: not even Crystal Claire, I said at the very beginning,

1383
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 1: under my plans, as long as I'm president, nobody earning

1384
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,560
Speaker 1: less than four hundred thousand dollars will pay an additional

1385
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: penny in taxes. Nobody, not one penny. However, as critics

1386
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: of the IRS like myself noted at that time, while

1387
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 1: I believe strongly that enforcement against the rich should take place,

1388
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: many of us noted that the actual behavior of the

1389
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 1: the IRS does not give them the benefit of the doubt.

1390
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: And sure enough, literally the day of the State of

1391
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 1: the Union, the IRS, flush with more cash than it

1392
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: has had nearly a decade, put out new guidance to

1393
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: show us exactly who they will be going after. The

1394
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: new notice reads quote. IRS introduces new Service Industry tip

1395
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: reporting program. Oh tell me more. IRS is establishing a

1396
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: new program called the Service Industry tip Compliance Agreement, which

1397
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,879
Speaker 1: will quote take advantage of advancements in point of sale,

1398
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: time attendance systems and electromet payment settlement methods to improve

1399
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: tip reporting compliance. The notice will literally involve monitoring employers

1400
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 1: and their point of sale systems in the service industry

1401
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 1: to record the exact amount of tips given by customers.

1402
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 1: The program is effectively blackmail. The IRS tells employers the

1403
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: program is totally voluntary and by signing up though for

1404
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 1: their dystopian surveillance, you get liability from Audit. Great for

1405
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: the business owners, but for the servers, what this effectively

1406
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: means is the IRS is coming for your two or

1407
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: three dollars tips on a cup of coffee and make

1408
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: sure every recent is paid by you is accounted for. Now.

1409
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: Look is the law that you should report that it is.

1410
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 1: I would never encourage you to break the law. I

1411
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: would only say, when it's legal to pay somebody two

1412
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: bucks an hour they happen to get some tip income,

1413
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: you hang onto that instead of forking it over to

1414
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam when you're trying to make ends meet. I'm

1415
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: not gonna cry about it. Neither should the goddamn government. Unfortunately,

1416
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: this latest action vindicates all past IRS behavior enforcing the

1417
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,599
Speaker 1: law most stringently against the poor while the rich get

1418
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: a free ride. The latest data out of the IRS

1419
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 1: or twenty twenty one tells us that the IRS is

1420
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 1: five point five times more likely to audit a low

1421
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 1: income earner claiming earned income tax credit than literally anyone else.

1422
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,600
Speaker 1: Imagine that somebody making effectively a poverty line, who is

1423
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: literally working and has kids who might have mistakenly filled

1424
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 1: out a form is the one who deserves audits, not

1425
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: the uber rich. In fact, in the twenty twenty one

1426
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: report I mentioned, they outline the odds of what it

1427
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 1: is like to be a millionaire in this country and

1428
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: get audited. Quote, the odds of millionaires receiving some attention

1429
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 1: by the IRS is two point eight percent. You dig deeper,

1430
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: the oddsit millionaires received a regular audit by a revenue

1431
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: agent one point one percent less than the audit rate

1432
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: of the targeted lowest income wage earners, whose audit rate

1433
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: was one point twenty seven. The richer you are, the

1434
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: less likely you are to get audited. Why because it

1435
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: takes effort. Rich people can fight back. Past IRS data

1436
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 1: also vindicates this. Twenty twenty data totals that the IRS

1437
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: is three times more likely to audit someone making less

1438
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: than twenty thousand dollars a year than someone in the

1439
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: top one percent of American income. Imagine that twenty thousand dollars.

1440
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: That's poor for a household income. Consider the immense stress

1441
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: of an audit when people are buying yachts with money

1442
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: that they owe to the government. This highlights the role

1443
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 1: of surveillance tech in our lives. Venmo PayPal point of sale.

1444
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: It's great, but the downside is it's tracking everything that

1445
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 1: we're doing. Right now, the Biden administration is still on

1446
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: the book. Full scale financial spying is going to effect

1447
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:05,479
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. The rule entails Venmo, PayPal, and

1448
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 1: other companies issuing users ten to ninety nine K tax

1449
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: forms if they exceed six one hundred dollars in payments

1450
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 1: over the course of a year. It's a previous change

1451
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: from before when people were only given such forms if

1452
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: they exceed twenty thousand dollars and two hundred transactions. The

1453
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: clear motive for lowering the threshold from twenty thousand to

1454
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: six hundred. They want to capture every single cent of

1455
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 1: the gig economy that might be taking place. Again, legally

1456
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: you are supposed to do that. But are we really

1457
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: going to cry about the crumbs here in relative terms

1458
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: to the FEDS when they mean the world to the

1459
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: service sector workers. You certainly won't me saying that this

1460
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: is the biggest problem inherent to the build up of

1461
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 1: the IRS. There is no mandate in any of this

1462
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: legislation that actually restricts them from cracking down on the

1463
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: poor until they can prove that or are legally mandated

1464
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: to do so. They're gonna do what they do best,

1465
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: going after poor people and the most vulnerable amongst us,

1466
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: because that what's easy. Screwed up man, I hate this, yeah,

1467
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean, And if you want to hear my reaction

1468
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 1: to Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints

1469
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: dot com. So joining us now we have Trevor Aronson. Welcome, Hi,

1470
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: I think for me, yeah, of course. So in addition

1471
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: to the podcast, you wrote down a lot of your

1472
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: reporting and a fantastic piece for the intercept. Let's go

1473
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen. The headline here

1474
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: is the Snitch in the Silver hearse the FBI paid

1475
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 1: a violent felon to infiltrate Denver's racial justice movement, and

1476
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: this dude, one of his calling cards was he drove

1477
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 1: this quite notable silver hearse around in Denver and at protests, etc.

1478
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: So he became well known quite quickly, kind of out

1479
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: of nowhere within Denver. Before you get into the story,

1480
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 1: what sort of tipped you off to this dude? What

1481
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: sort of you know, got your interest as a journalist

1482
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: and led you to to follow down this path and

1483
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,760
Speaker 1: pull this thride. Yeah, So for the last ten to

1484
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 1: fifteen years, I've been reporting on the FBI's counter terrorism

1485
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 1: program and its use of informants and sting operations to

1486
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,600
Speaker 1: find would be terrorists and really kind of highlighting this

1487
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: question of whether the FBI is finding real terrorists or

1488
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:20,799
Speaker 1: creating them through these sophisticated stings where they provide everything

1489
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 1: that they need, including the weapons and the money and

1490
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: all of the planning. And so during the summer of

1491
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, it was the longest suspicion of mine that

1492
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: the FBI may use these types of tactics against demonstrators,

1493
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 1: particularly given the climate that the summer of twenty twenty

1494
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: was happening in. There were a lot of there was

1495
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: a drumbeat for this idea that ANTIFA and BLM, where

1496
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: anti government extremists, were potentially violent. The FBI had previously

1497
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: designated black political activists as so called black identity extremists,

1498
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 1: and so there seemed to be a predisposition within the

1499
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:56,560
Speaker 1: FBI to view these demonstrations not as First Amendment protect activity,

1500
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: but potentially as something potentially something viol And the question

1501
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: for me was whether they would use these tactics and

1502
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 1: powers that had been deployed in the War on Terror

1503
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: against these activists. And my suspicion was that they would.

1504
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: And so I'd spent a good amount of time trying

1505
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: to find an example of that and find recording on that,

1506
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: and you know, at first wound up empty, and then

1507
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 1: eventually came across this case through a source that revealed

1508
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 1: recordings and about three inner pages of internal documents that

1509
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,679
Speaker 1: showed that the FBI did precisely that, using an undercover

1510
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: informant to infiltrate groups in Denver and then try to

1511
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: set them up in violent crimes. Yeah, I mean, this

1512
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: reads like a straight up entrapman scenario. We're talking about

1513
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: giving out guns, urging activists to become more violent, go

1514
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 1: on the offensive against the police, all while getting straight

1515
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: up paid by the FBI. Go into the sum of

1516
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: the details on this story. Sure, so, Mickey Windecker was

1517
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: this guy with a long, long history of deception and violence,

1518
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, a mon. His convictions were for sexual assault.

1519
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: He had sex with a fourteen year old when he

1520
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,440
Speaker 1: was twenty and ended up pleading that down to misdemeanor

1521
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: sexual assault. He spent two years in prison for stuffing

1522
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: a gun in someone's face and was convicted for felony menacing.

1523
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,719
Speaker 1: While he was in prison in the early two thousands,

1524
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: he was approached for a murder for hire and instead

1525
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: of doing that, ends up becoming an informant. And as

1526
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: far as we know, that's the beginning of his career

1527
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: as a police cooperator. And then you fast forward twenty

1528
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: years in the summer of twenty twenty, he goes to

1529
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: local police working with the FBI through the Joint Terrorism

1530
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,520
Speaker 1: Task Force and says, Hey, I know about these protesters

1531
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 1: who are saying incendiary things, and do you want to

1532
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: hire me as an informant to look into this? And

1533
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 1: I think it's important to keep in mind that what

1534
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: Mickey reported to the FBI was nothing more than first

1535
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 1: Amendment protected activities. These were things that protesters had said,

1536
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 1: very incendiary things and certainly questionable, but nonetheless protected by

1537
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 1: free speech rights. And yet the then Openness investigation using

1538
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: him as a paid informant. And then what he did

1539
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: was kind of insert himself as a leader. And not

1540
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: only did he insert himself as a leader, but he

1541
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: took out tactics from the co intel pro playbook of

1542
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties. He would accuse the real leaders of

1543
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 1: the Denver movement of being police cooperators, of being FBI informants,

1544
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 1: essentially marginalizing them as a result, and in that leadership

1545
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 1: vacuum kind of rose up in prominence among the activists.

1546
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 1: And then once he was in a leadership role, he

1547
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: was encouraging violence. He was in apartments filled with guns,

1548
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: his heart had guns in the back, and he was

1549
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: encouraging protesters to get more and more violent. And by

1550
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 1: the end of August twenty twenty, a number of the

1551
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: protests in Denver had turned extremely violent, with basically full

1552
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: on assaults against police buildings. Police officers were officers were injured,

1553
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 1: protesters were injured. Mickey's fingerprints were all over those and

1554
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 1: encouraging the violence, and so he was doing that more

1555
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 1: broadly in the Denver activist community, turning these pro tests

1556
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 1: that were otherwise peaceful into something much more violent, and

1557
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 1: at the same time was trying to entrap protesters into plots.

1558
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 1: You know, the most significant that he tried was to

1559
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 1: rope two protesters into a supposed plot to assassinate Colorado's

1560
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 1: Attorney General Phil Wiser. Ultimately was unsuccessful, but you know,

1561
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: try to get protesters to move more and more toward

1562
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: those kinds of violent plots so much. Yeah, and when

1563
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: you talk about First Amendment protected speech from these protesters

1564
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 1: that he was reporting to at THEI, it was things

1565
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 1: that you know, we've all probably heard, at least on

1566
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: television or if you've been to any prot that we're

1567
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: going to burn it down. Things of that nature were

1568
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 1: what they were saying to him. Talk to me, Trevor

1569
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 1: about how he sort of picked out the leaders he

1570
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: was going to target, what kind of tactics he used,

1571
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 1: and what kind of like direction he attempted to push

1572
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 1: them in. So one of the things that Mickey did

1573
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: that was quite helpful to his ability to infiltrate the

1574
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 1: Denver activist groups was that, you know, when you look

1575
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,600
Speaker 1: at Mickey, there's this initial feeling that you have, like,

1576
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 1: how did this guy infiltrate these groups? Right, he dresses

1577
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:14,679
Speaker 1: like a biker, he's got military style uniform, and he's old. Right,

1578
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: He's pushing fifty years old in the group of protesters

1579
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: who were in their teens and twenty somethings. So he

1580
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: was by himself quite suspicious. And what he did that

1581
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,560
Speaker 1: was quite effective was that he allied himself very quickly

1582
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 1: with activists, with the Young Democratic Socialists of America or

1583
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: why DSA, very young activists, arguably very naive activists, and

1584
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 1: those activists became his allies. And so what ended up

1585
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,600
Speaker 1: happening was that the protesters, who were rightfully suspicious of

1586
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 1: this old guy dressed like a biker coming into the

1587
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 1: protest advocating violence, had their suspicions somewhat undermined by the

1588
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 1: fact that they saw him with these young allies. And

1589
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,759
Speaker 1: there was this feeling that Denver protesters described to me that, Okay,

1590
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,759
Speaker 1: this guy seems really suspicious, but he's with the hy DSA,

1591
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 1: so he must be okay. And that allowed him to

1592
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 1: essentially rise up in the movement and become someone that

1593
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 1: people started to trust. At the same time what he

1594
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: would do anytime someone became suspicious of him. You know,

1595
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 1: the most notable example of this is a man named

1596
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: Trey Quinn who was one of the leaders of the

1597
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: demonstrations in Denver. Trey very quickly suspected that this Mickey

1598
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: guy was an informant. He didn't have proof, and he

1599
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:28,719
Speaker 1: ended up doing a test where he went to Mickey

1600
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 1: and he said, speaking holy in hypotheticals, you know what

1601
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 1: if we went and burned down a neighborhood. And Mickey's like, oh, yeah,

1602
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: I can get that done. I know a guy we

1603
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: can do that, And to Trey, that meant this guy

1604
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,880
Speaker 1: was clearly an agent provocateur. And so what Trey then

1605
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 1: does is pack away from him. Mickey at that point

1606
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: realizes that Trey's kind of on to him, and so

1607
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: what Mickey does is then accused Trey of being an

1608
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 1: FBI informant himself to all of the other activist community,

1609
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:57,759
Speaker 1: and that allows Mickey to kind of create a vacuum

1610
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:00,799
Speaker 1: that he then fills, and once he's in that LEADLeadership position,

1611
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: he's pushing more and more people toward violence and getting

1612
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 1: people to go out and you know, attack police buildings,

1613
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: getting people out to talk about violent plots, and all

1614
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 1: of this is then being reported back to the FBI.

1615
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 1: It's important to understand too, according to these FBI reports,

1616
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 1: Mickey wasn't just investigating possible crimes. He was basically collecting

1617
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: intelligence on all of the demonstrators. And so much of

1618
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 1: the information that's in the FBI files is related to

1619
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: information about activists, activists who are not charged with crimes,

1620
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:31,920
Speaker 1: Activists who we are not suspected of crimes, but were

1621
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: simply going out, you know, performing their First Amendment protected activities,

1622
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,640
Speaker 1: and they were then getting FBI files back in the

1623
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 1: Denver office. Again, this is very reminiscent of what we

1624
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 1: saw during the co Intel pro days. This is also

1625
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 1: directly contrary to what the FBI has stated publicly to Congress.

1626
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,640
Speaker 1: Christopher Ray, the FBI Director, has spoken before Congress a

1627
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 1: number of times and said, we don't investigate ideology, we

1628
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: don't investigate speech. And that's exactly what happened in the

1629
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: Denver case, and I think it's reasonable to assume that

1630
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:03,920
Speaker 1: it may have happened in other cities as well. In

1631
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: the summer of twenty twenty oh. I mean there's no

1632
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 1: question about it. So my last question for you is

1633
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:11,839
Speaker 1: are there any people who were charged based on this information?

1634
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 1: And are we going to have ag Gresh and Whitmer

1635
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 1: situation where those people potentially are going to get off

1636
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 1: Because clearly, I mean, in a lot of ways, he

1637
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 1: had trapped many people who were in the commission of

1638
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 1: some of these crimes. So the assassination plot that they

1639
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: attempted to construct against Colorado's Attorney general was very similar

1640
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 1: to the type of tactic he saw in the Greshen

1641
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: and Whitmer case. Ultimately, that was unsuccessful. The two people

1642
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 1: who were part of the supposed plot backed out. But

1643
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: one of those people, I mean one of those activists,

1644
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: a man named Zebediahs Hall, did end up purchasing a

1645
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: gun for Mickey and ultimately was charged with purchasing a

1646
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: gun for a felon, the irony being, of course that

1647
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 1: Mickey was a felon, but he was also an FBI informant,

1648
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:52,680
Speaker 1: and so he purchases a gun using FBI money to

1649
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 1: give the gun to the FBI informant, who then gives

1650
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 1: it to the FBI right totally victimless crime. And so

1651
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 1: zeb you know, in the show in Ala boys. We

1652
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 1: describe how Zeb you know, you know, admits what he did,

1653
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 1: admits that he was wrong, he shouldn't have done it.

1654
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 1: But the important part to understand is that one of

1655
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: the reasons that Mickey was able to get activists to

1656
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: do things that they might not have otherwise done is

1657
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: that part of his identity was this looming sense of violence.

1658
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:18,840
Speaker 1: You know. He described how he had fought with the

1659
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: Peshmerga in Iraq, fought against ISIS. He had pictures of

1660
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 1: his phone on his phone of dead ISIS fighters, some

1661
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,120
Speaker 1: of them. In some of them he's standing over the

1662
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 1: dead bodies. And so there was always this sense that

1663
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 1: the activists had that Mickey was dangerous and that he

1664
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,599
Speaker 1: could physically harm them. And so a number of activists,

1665
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,000
Speaker 1: including Zeb, described that once they got close to Mickey,

1666
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:40,719
Speaker 1: they felt they couldn't back away from him for fear

1667
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: that he would physically harm them, and they felt a

1668
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, compelled to do the things that he had

1669
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 1: asked them to do, which again I think is part

1670
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 1: of the more insidious tactic that the FBI used in

1671
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: this regard that they inserted Mickey knowing that he was

1672
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 1: a person who would would be quite intimidating and then

1673
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 1: once people got close to him, they felt they couldn't

1674
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: back away, and that's how he was able to entice

1675
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,440
Speaker 1: people into that's further crime. It is It is insane.

1676
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,680
Speaker 1: I mean, there would be have been no crime of

1677
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 1: purchasing gun for a felon if you didn't have the

1678
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: FBI encouraging, setting up, paying for and like intimidating this

1679
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:18,799
Speaker 1: person ultimately into committing this crime. So far from disrupting crime,

1680
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 1: they're actually creating and encouraging it. Not to mention you

1681
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 1: know that under with Mickey's encouragement, the Denver protests turn

1682
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 1: far more violent. My last question for you, Trevor, is

1683
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 1: you know what was the fallout in the activist community,

1684
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: because obviously part of the goal of co Intel pro

1685
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,799
Speaker 1: was like to disrupt these groups and pit them against

1686
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 1: each other. Were they successful ultimately in doing that in Denver? Yeah,

1687
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 1: So if one of the FBI's goals was to undermine

1688
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,479
Speaker 1: the movement and undermine these groups, they were successful. You know,

1689
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 1: starting in late September there was an abrupt stop to

1690
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: these demonstrations in Denver. A lot of these groups splintered,

1691
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 1: a number of groups that were allied together ended up

1692
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 1: splitting apart, and a lot of that was due due

1693
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: to the confusion and distrust that was sown as a

1694
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,719
Speaker 1: result of Mickey's activity. You know, many people in Denver

1695
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 1: suspected that there were FBI infiltrators in their groups. They

1696
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 1: started to trust each other less and as a result,

1697
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: started to organize with each other less and ultimately that

1698
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: undermined the movement. You know, that's exactly what the Church

1699
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: Committee found in nineteen seventy five that in co Intel

1700
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: pro the FBI deployed this tactic to devastating effect in

1701
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 1: order to undermine black political movements throughout the country, and

1702
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,639
Speaker 1: we saw that it happen exactly in Denver, that because

1703
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:32,240
Speaker 1: of Mickey's infiltration, not only did these protests turn violent,

1704
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: not only were people attempted to be set up in crimes,

1705
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:37,800
Speaker 1: but the overall movement ended up being harmed as a

1706
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 1: result of the distrust that was engendered due to his activities. Yeah,

1707
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: absolutely unbelievable. Great work tracking all of this down. I

1708
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 1: know you spent I can't even imagine how many hours

1709
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 1: you spent digging into this. I've listened to the first

1710
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast that are out they're both fantastic guys.

1711
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: Check it on. It's called Alphabet Boys and Trevor, thank

1712
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. We're super grateful.

1713
01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: That's right. We're going to have a link to that

1714
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 1: podcast rubscription, so go ahead and subscribe. Thanks rerever. It's

1715
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,759
Speaker 1: been an eventful week here at the State of the Union.

1716
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:09,759
Speaker 1: Got called anti semi it's okay, well, very warm. Welcome

1717
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 1: to many of the new JRI listeners who have joined

1718
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 1: us since then. We really appreciate so many of you

1719
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 1: taking advantage of the discount. We just had a meeting

1720
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,679
Speaker 1: yesterday with this new set team. Things are exciting people.

1721
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 1: It's exciting lots of ideas that are bubbling up here,

1722
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 1: and I think people are really going to enjoy the

1723
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 1: look of the show. We are doing our absolute best

1724
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 1: to bring you the best quality product for your heart

1725
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: earned money, and we never ever take advantage of it,

1726
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: so thank you all so much for that. We'll have

1727
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,600
Speaker 1: great content for you over the weekend. We'll see you

1728
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: next week. Love you guys, See you next week.