WEBVTT - #072 Jason Flom with Noura Jackson - RE-RELEASE 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:08.360 Nora Jackson is an extraordinary person who has been through 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.600 an ordeal that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.760 as you know for listening to her episode that originally 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.000 aired in November of twenty seventeen. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.160 Nora was wrongfully convicted of the murder of her mother. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.160 Both of her parents were murdered, and she was left 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.320 an orphan with no brothers and sisters when she was 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.480 wrongfully convicted and ended up serving eleven years in prison. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.839 Of course, the Tennessee Supreme Court unanimously overturned her conviction 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.800 and set in there ruling that the prosecutors had lied 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.400 and cheated and broken so many rules. There were too 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.800 many to count, too many examples of prosecutorial misconduct, too 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:50.559 good into in one recording. Nora, The good news is 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.800 since the episode aired, she's moved from Tennessee to New York. 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.440 She now lives in Brooklyn, and she is a sophomore 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:04.000 in college to thirty two. Her freshman year, she achieved 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.000 a three point sixty seven GPA. I know she's going 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.600 to improve on it this year. She started in an 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.520 organization called Meet Your Mentor, and she is working with 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:20.600 some other incredible, dynamic women Sarah Rappold, Stacy Ryan, and others, 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.640 and Meet Your Mentor is an organization that is dedicated 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.440 to helping exoneries formerly incarcerated people get back on their 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.000 feet and get a fresh start. Nora is a hero 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.800 of mine, and I'm super proud of everything she's doing. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.959 I fell into the hands of a corrupt detective. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.160 I was naive enough to believe that I would be 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.160 able to just present all of my proof of actual innocence, 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.720 that they would investigate adequately, and so that I wouldn't 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.320 be going to prison because I was a good person. 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:57.360 I hadn't do anything wrong. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.240 In the back of your mind, you say, well, when 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.920 we go to a hearing, we go to court, the 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.960 truth will come out. The prosecution from day one knew 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:10.240 I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected from 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.600 the lower courts all the way up to the United 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:13.640 States Supreme Court. 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.400 You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really, 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.320 in that moment unchecked authority. 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.480 Don't presume that people are guilty when you see him 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.520 on TV, because it may just be a dirty da 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.440 that is trying to rise upward. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:38.560 Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I am particularly honored actually 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.400 today to have in the studio Norara Jackson. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.960 Nor Jackson was convicted in two thousand and nine of 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:45.720 killing her mother. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.120 Jackson was eighteen when her mother, Jennifer Jackson, was found 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.480 murdered stabbed at least fifty times in the bedroom of 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.920 her East Memphis home. In two thousand and nine, a 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.600 jury convicted Jackson of second degree murder. 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.720 Nora Jackson has maintained her innocence. In twenty fourteen, the 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.639 Tennessee Supreme Court overturned the conviction because of prosecutorial misconduct. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.600 And ordered a new trial, claiming the lead prosecutor, now 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.639 District Attorney Amy Wyrick, withheld a witness statement from the defense. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.200 Stephen Jones, is facing misconduct charges for not turning over 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:22.120 a key witness statement. District Attorney Amy Wyrick also is 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.560 facing misconduct charges connected to the case. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.000 In May twenty fifteen, Jackson's attorneys accepted a plea deal 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:33.280 of voluntary manslaughter from prosecutors, avoiding a potentially lengthy new trial. 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.119 She could have fought for another ten years on principle, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.560 I don't know anybody who would give up their thirties 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:39.560 for principal. 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:46.560 Nora Jackson is officially a free woman today. Nora, welcome 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.000 to the show. Thank you, and we have with you 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:53.360 Bryce Benjett. You're lawyer from the ennisonce Project, and Bryce, 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.200 welcome to you too. Glad to be here. This story 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.920 just really shocked my conscience and you. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.080 Lived through it unfortunately. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.200 Yeah, there were times when I didn't know if I 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:05.440 would make it to the other side. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.160 But here I am. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.240 Nor Let's go back to it was really not that 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.240 long ago. I mean two thousand and five. You were 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:15.560 still a teenager. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.520 Yeah, I turned eighteen in March of two thousand and five, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:20.919 so I was just at the age where, you know, 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.479 there was no issue with them charging me as an adult. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.640 Right, Just another terrible circumstance of your case, And it 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.799 started with one of the worst things that anyone can experience, 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.640 which is the murder of your mother. And you had 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.159 already been through so much because your father was murdered 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.640 sixteen months earlier. 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.480 Correct in January of two thousand and four. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:41.920 But they weren't together, No, no, no. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:42.839 No, they weren't. They weren't together. 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:44.920 My parents had split up when I was like eighteen 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:49.400 months old, and they shared custody for about eight years, 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.000 and then there was an eight year period where I 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.839 didn't see my father, and that's another interesting story. I 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.279 actually walked into a convenience store about a year before 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:57.640 he was killed and found him. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.919 So I lived with my mom my entire life. 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.279 So the death of my father, it did really rock me, 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.479 especially since there was like that newfound relationship there with him. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:08.440 But my mom was my rock. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.960 The death of my mother's mother, my grandmother, was the 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.960 first one that happened in the summer of two thousand 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.240 and three. Then the death of my father in two 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.559 thousand and four, and then my best friend was actually 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:22.640 killed in a car wreck on the way to my 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.080 house in January of. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:24.880 Two thousand and five. 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.120 So that was a really really rough year for me, 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.599 a really rough time, and my mom was the one 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.640 that was actually able to get me through all of that. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.600 I had pulled back from a lot of my friends. 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.320 Anybody that has a single parent will know that that 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.240 relationship is kind of sacred. It's totally different than if 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.400 you're raised in a two parent household and. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.680 You were an only child as well. Yes, so yeah, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.160 I can imagine that would create even a stronger bond 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.560 because there's no one else. It's no buffer, right, it's 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.359 just you and your mom and your mom Jennifer Jackson 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.240 was a successful banker as well, right investment bank. 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.520 But yeah, she was actually a broker. She worked in 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.680 the stock market. She was a bondsman, and she was 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.080 very successful. And she'd actually just wanted a word about 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.200 three months before she was killed, and it was a 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.200 really big deal. They gave her like a gold bat 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.520 for like a heavy hitter because of all the money 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.080 that she had brought in, and I was her date 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:13.359 for that. 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:13.880 Actually. 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.120 So you have all of these successful bondsman's there with 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.160 their trophy wives and or their girlfriends, and you know, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:20.760 my mom is like kind of like the star of 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.360 the evening and here she comes with her eighteen year 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:23.800 old daughter. 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:25.719 So it was really really fun. 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.799 Yeah, it sounds like an awesome event, and she sounds 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.960 like an awesome woman. It's worth noting that the murder 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.080 of your father went unsolved and still unsolved. Correct, It's 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.240 only worth noting as it relates to this particular case 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:41.800 about your mom because of the fact that there could 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:46.560 be some correlation. But let's go back to the terrible 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:47.839 night when this happened. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:53.120 So at that time I came home, and retrospectively, I 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.240 can look back and see that there were signs that 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.360 something bad had gone on in my house that night. 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.440 I walked into the kitchen and I saw and broken 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.000 glass on the floor, so I looked up at the window. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.400 My mom had actually broken into that same door once 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.560 before when she had lost her keys. There's a way 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.000 to enter into our garage from the backyard. We had 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.360 a gate that went into our backyard. Then you could 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.440 go down a hallway which led to our garage, and 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.000 you could enter into the kitchen through a side door 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.720 in the garage. There was no key to that door 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.000 because there was a latch actually in the middle pane. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.760 It would slide up and slide over, and that's how 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.440 you would enter into the house was through that latch. 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:33.800 I remember having friends over like all the time, and 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:35.880 they kept like trying to open the door because we 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.880 had a fridge outside, and like everybody was like, what 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:39.520 is going on with this door? And there's this like 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:41.720 tiny little piece of metal that would hinder you from 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:42.760 going outside. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:43.840 So that's what. 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.360 Makes me feel like anybody that was involved in anything 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.160 that took place that night and killing my mom, they 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.960 had intimate knowledge of our house, but at the time, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.400 it still didn't alarm me. What alarmed me was when 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.640 I got ready to go to my room, which was 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:58.840 across from my mom's room, and the light was on 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.000 in the bedroom. The door was halfway open, so that's 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.280 what caused me to go into the bedroom and. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:08.920 I saw my mom and. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:19.760 I'm sorry, take your time, And you know, I'm not 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.760 really even sure of what I remember versus what I've 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.680 heard along the way, especially like from trial and transcripts 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.920 and things like that, but i do remember walking in 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.960 and seeing her naked body on the floor and my 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.079 first reaction was to just pick her up, and she 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.559 was so heavy, and. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.439 I'm looking and I don't even know if I registered 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:43.040 at the time. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:43.640 I must have. 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.840 I mean, somebody gets shot, you know, there's like a 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.559 pool of blood. I don't even remember there being a 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.560 pool of blood. I remember they're being blood everywhere, like 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.640 on the sheets and even on the walls, and I'm 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.680 just like screaming, and then I know I wanted help, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:01.640 so I run across the street and I go get 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.520 a neighbor. And at that point, I'm thinking about the 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.400 broken glass, and I'm like, somebody broke into my house 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.600 and so he comes with me, and I guess I 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.040 run in the house in front of him. That's what 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.800 he said at trial, which they inadvertently made a huge 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.000 deal about. I didn't give a fuck who was in there. 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:18.959 I knew a man was behind me with a gun, 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.040 and I knew my mom was in there on the floor. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:22.720 That was like my life. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.640 That was my cheerleader, that was my coach, and I 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.760 needed to get to her. And so I went back 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.160 in there, and the neighbor across the street, I think 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.079 his girlfriend actually pulled me away from her and told 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.719 me to call nine wood would So I called nine 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.920 one one and I'm just I'm screaming. And at one 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.800 point they asked me if she had been shot, and 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.560 I said no, But I just remember sitting out on 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:48.200 that curb. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.280 You know, I watched plenty of TV and I know that. 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:51.880 You know, the. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.360 EMT goes inside and they bring the body out on 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.239 the gurney if it's going to go to the hospital. 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.320 And the gurney came out and nobody was on it, 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.040 and that's just went I lost it. They actually put me. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.839 It's so ironic because it was like foreshadowing what was 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.120 going to happen. I was so uncontrollable trying to run 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:11.520 in the house. They put me in the back of 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:12.120 a cock car. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:12.720 At one point. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.760 I don't even know what to say. 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.000 It's one thing that I see. I represent a number 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.520 of people who have been convicted of a murder of 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.280 a family member, and just to have that trauma of 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.640 what you're talking about, and then to be sort of 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:38.719 re traumatized by being convicted for it is just unimaginable. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.000 And I think that police, when they're faced with a 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.360 situation where they don't know who did it, rather than 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.880 looking at the evidence, they start looking at suspects, and 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:53.319 they do these suspect driven investigations where they look at 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.600 the person and try to make a case against the person, 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.560 rather than looking at the evidence and trying to follow 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.200 where the evidence leads. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.560 And the interesting and disgusting thing is that the day 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.280 of my mom's funeral, they had two detectives waiting on me. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.360 My mom was killed on June fifth. June sixth, I 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.400 stayed with a family friend. June seventh, my aunts came 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.600 into town and they tried to take me. I wouldn't 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.600 go with them, so June eighth. They came and got 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.280 me and they were like, you're coming with us. We 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.160 stayed downtown in a hotel room and they left me there. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.440 They went somewhere and they left me there, and so 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.320 one of the people that attended our church came to 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.000 pick me up and she was like, why are you 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.200 by yourself? I was sitting on the curb. She was like, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.280 you need help, Like, I'm going to take you to 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:36.000 see somebody. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:37.120 So she takes me. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.480 To a child psychologist and he's talking to me and 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:40.160 he was like. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:41.640 This girl is in shock. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.480 She needs to be surrounded by people that can pay 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.600 attention to her and give her what she needs and love, 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.920 and they need to give her some type of security. 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.400 So my aunt's solution to that was to take me 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.040 to Lakeside, which is a behavioral health center. So we 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:58.960 go to Lakeside. I don't think at the time, I 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.319 was really aware of the fact that I was eighteen, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.760 so they couldn't put me in there. So what they 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.679 did was they told me, we will involuntarily commit you 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.680 and it'll be a seventy two hour mandatory minimum and 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.880 you will miss your mom's funeral. So they knew that 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:15.680 I signed whatever they put in front of me to 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.520 go inside. So when I went inside, I was there 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.080 for two days, and then they were supposed to pick 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.320 me up for my mom's funeral. My best friend that 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.400 was killed. Her mom actually came up there and brought 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.440 me clothes the night before. So I just remember, like 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.719 I'm sitting up there waiting on my aunts to pick 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:31.600 me up to what I know is my mom's funeral. 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.120 It's kind of morbid, like in my dead best friend's clothes, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.880 and they're not there. So at this point, I begin 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.280 to like shred a whole box of Kleenex, and then 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.000 I begin to freak out. We didn't have access to phones, 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.840 so my nurse starts to call them. Nobody's answering, so 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:48.640 then I really start to freak out. So they give 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.800 me a sedative, and when my aunts get there, they're like, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.880 get in the car. You know, it's not a big deal. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.400 You're not going to miss it. The show's not going 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.600 to start without us, like they referred to it as 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.000 a show, and I do remember that. And so we're 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.040 sitting at the funeral and we leave. I don't even 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.600 go to anything that they have after the funeral. I'm 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.439 pretty sure. I heard that they had a reception. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:09.080 I didn't go. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.000 They took me straight back to Lakeside. I walk into 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.040 the doors of Lakeside and I'll never forget. My nurse's 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.280 name was Chris, and I just really, really really was 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.480 clinging to her at that time because she reminded me 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.560 of my grandma, and she was like, baby, She was like, 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.079 I have to take you into the office. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.160 You have some people here that want to talk to you. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.560 I don't even know what I'm thinking, Like maybe it's 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.839 like old friends, maybe it's a visit, maybe somebody's here 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.920 to see me. And I walk in and it's two 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.880 detectives with a camera and they hand over a piece 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.360 of paper and so at this point Lakeside has become 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.439 very overprotective of me. They're reading the paper and they 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.920 were like, are you kidding me? Like you picked this 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.600 day of all days, and it's the Affidavid with the warrant. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.680 It was very apparent that the attack or the killer 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.120 was injured at the scene of the crime, so they 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.720 needed to photograph my body in its entirety and get 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.320 some DNA, which I had already provided the first day, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.319 and so they took my clothes off, and I mean, 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.440 if you look at these pictures, you can tell whatever 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.000 since that I had left at that time left me. 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.440 I just it was like out of body. I couldn't. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.440 I could not cope with reality at that point, and 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.200 I had no choice but to go with it because 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:25.840 at this point i had nobody left. So I'm taking 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.680 off my clothes and they're photographing me, and I'm thinking, like, 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.960 I just wanted to lay down and die. At that point, 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.320 I just I didn't. I did not have the wherewithal 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.360 to continue. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.320 I'm just trying to process, Well, you just told me 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.240 you were, still, as you said, a child. I mean, 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.400 the idea that they would strip you at that point, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.200 I mean, you're not even stripped of everything except your dignity, 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.120 and then they took that away too. How how that's 0:14:53.760 --> 0:15:00.240 even possible is hard for me to process. You've I've 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.560 been through everything that a human being can possibly adore. 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.120 You're not even twenty years old yet, right, You're all 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.600 alone in the world, and how the fuck did you 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.000 find the strength to persevere? 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:13.880 Oh? 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.800 Well, my mom told me when my best friend and 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.960 and id that grief is like Sarah. You know, that's 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.400 the name that she wanted to name me, and she 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.760 was like, you go through sadness and then you go 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.400 through anger, and then you go through resentment, and then 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.280 you go through acceptance, and then you go through healing. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.120 And I wanted to go through those things. So the 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.200 anger is what drove me. When I was first arrested, 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.560 I remember being in the jail, sitting on my bunk 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.840 and watching, like everybody else in the pod of the jail, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.920 watch the television where they were talking about eighteen year 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.880 old girl arrested for killing her mother who was stabbed 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.040 over fifty seven times. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.320 Prosecutors have not announced if they will be seeking the 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:57.040 death penalty. 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.840 She's been charged with first degree murder, which carries us 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.520 in life without parole, life with pearl, and even the 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.120 death pen you know. And it just was like going 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.040 on and on, and I remember sitting there thinking like, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.640 I wonder if they will try to give me the 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:14.320 death penalty. The Constitution, they guarantee the right to a 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:15.480 speedy and fair trial. 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.160 That's what it says in black and white. 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.480 But the reality of the situation is you will sit 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:21.520 there for as long as they deem necessary. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.640 Amy Wyrick was determined to be my prosecutor. She was 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.600 a death penalty lawyer, and she was on what they 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.720 used to refer to as the death squad, which meant 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.440 that she was qualified to try death penalty cases. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:35.960 Amy went out on maternity leave. Do you think that 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.240 she handed the case over to somebody else. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:39.200 No. 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.360 I sat there and waited for her to go on 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.080 maternity leave, to have her child and come back. Amy 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.480 was determined to try that case. 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.280 I wasn't there, but it's pretty clear that she saw 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.200 you as a real stopping stone to where she wanted 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:54.160 to get to in her career. 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:54.880 Correct. 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.360 This was the biggest and longest running case with the 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.400 most evidence in the most exhibits and Shelby County history 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.560 at the time, it was very clear to her that 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.520 this could be like a career making case, especially if 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.960 she got a conviction. Yeah, so she played like a 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:09.680 win at all costs game. And you know one of 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.520 the things that Amy Wyrick likes to hold on to 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:17.040 and like she steadfast on, is that we had forty witnesses. Okay, 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.760 you did, but let's look at what those forty witnesses presented. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.480 You had TBI, the Tennessee Bear of Investigation that testifies 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.080 that the DNA that they analyzed belonged to somebody else. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.959 You have Kirby McDonald, Sophie Cooley, Perry Brassfield, Andrew Hammock, 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.320 Joey McGoff. You have all of these children, because they're 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.920 still children at the time, testifying that I smoked pot 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.560 and that I drank at a party. But they were 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.919 doing the same thing, and they're not on trial for 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.040 killing anybody. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.600 That does not make you a murderer. 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:52.919 They made a big deal out of the idea that 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.679 you were this craze druggie, right when in fact you 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.479 were a typical eighteen year old. You're having, you know, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.280 some beers, you're smoking some p That's what eighteen year 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.600 olds do. You were no drug addict. 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.080 I'm a diabolical killer, and then I'm a pothead. I'm 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.680 someone that can totally get rid of any trace evidence 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.400 that made blood disappear off of clothes that they pulled 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.520 out the back of my car, Clothes that they had 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.359 that I had on that night, that was able to 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.239 overtake a woman that was five to eleven. I don't know, 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.600 like without she was on I'm five to three. She 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.240 was an avid runner, she worked out at the time, 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.600 I was a chubby, little pothead, Like, there's no way 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.560 my mom would have kicked my ass any day of 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.800 the week, you know, And they said this, I mean, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.200 she fought for her life. I mean, if you look 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.520 at the pictures, like she she went down swinging, there's 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.760 no way that anybody walked away from there unscathed. And 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.320 you know what's crazy is that, I know I remember 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.320 like in situations where like I was in danger and 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.360 I know my mom. There's no way my mom left 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.680 this world willingly. You know, she she took something from 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.640 those people, whoever it was. So that is what they 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.200 use for the warrant for my body. You know, there 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.160 would have been evidence of some type of attack. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.399