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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine this scene. A beautiful

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Speaker 1: brunette English professor at a local college found dead by

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Speaker 1: who else, her husband. He tells police he left the

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Speaker 1: house for a really quick trip, just running to Walmart

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Speaker 1: and back. But he says when he got home, his

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Speaker 1: gorgeous wife, Emily Mason, is dead and she didn't go easily.

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Speaker 1: There was a war between the gods. She put up

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Speaker 1: a fight. She was home with her two small daughters.

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Speaker 1: What a coinkie ink. Hubby leaves just for a short

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Speaker 1: while and comes back, and all of this happens in

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Speaker 1: the short moments he's gone. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What happened

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Speaker 1: to this beautiful young professor out of Swainsborough? Joining me

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Speaker 1: an all star panel. Karen Smith, forensics expert out of

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Speaker 1: the Florida jurisdiction. Ashley Wilcot judge, lawyer anchor. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com, well known reporter,

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Speaker 1: wt OC reporter dal Kennedy Karen Stark psychologist joining us

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Speaker 1: from Manhattan. You can find her at Karen Stark dot

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Speaker 1: com and Crime Online dot com. Investigative reporter author of

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Life to see USI behind the Casey Anthony trial.

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Speaker 1: Robin will Nski straight to dal Kennedy with wt OC DW.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with the timeline and the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: First of all, let's hear everything you know about the

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Speaker 1: crime the Let's hear everything you know about the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about a small house in Swainsborough, Um Swainsborough.

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Speaker 1: Let's set the scene. Okay. I'm split my time, as

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Speaker 1: everybody knows, between New York and Atlanta, and when I

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Speaker 1: drive south from Macon, if I have to go beyond that,

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Speaker 1: you go through Emmanuel County, and it is beautiful. If

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Speaker 1: you like wide open spaces, you're not gonna find high

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Speaker 1: rises or congested streets and honking horns. It is out

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Speaker 1: in the country and it's beautiful. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: many exits does Swainsboro have Emmanuel County on the interstate

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Speaker 1: now three or one? Probably probably three, A couple of

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Speaker 1: places where you would go through an even smaller town

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Speaker 1: to get to Swainsboro, and then the ones that are

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Speaker 1: that are more direct. Smaller town is there beside Swainsborough

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Speaker 1: and lu Hey. That's where I'm coming from. I say,

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Speaker 1: I'm from Macon. We didn't even live in the city.

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Speaker 1: We lived in rural, unincorporated bib County on a red

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Speaker 1: dirt road with tree in the middle of it in

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Speaker 1: front of our driveway. And my grandfather Doug our well okay,

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Speaker 1: and built the house. So believe me. I'm all about

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Speaker 1: small towns. But what town is smaller than Swainsborough that

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Speaker 1: you have an exit? Was? What is it? You would

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Speaker 1: have Oak Park, which you pass by on the interstate

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Speaker 1: and if you you know, if you blink, you've missed it.

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Speaker 1: I have been to oak Park. I have had dinner

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Speaker 1: in someone's home in oak Park and it's lovely. And

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Speaker 1: so there's the oak Park exit. That's Emmanuel County, not Swainsborough,

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Speaker 1: but still in the county. What's the other you claim

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Speaker 1: there are three exits. I'm not sure I believe you. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think if you if you got off the soaper

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Speaker 1: to and exit, you could take a roundabout way to Swainsborough. Now,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, it's Soaperton an Emmanuel County. Oh that's

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Speaker 1: Truthlin County. But you know you you'd go a roundabout

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Speaker 1: way to get there. I knew it. I knew it.

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Speaker 1: I caught you in an inconsistency. And here's my point.

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Speaker 1: I'm not just doing it for the fun of it,

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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcote to torture dal Kennedy. My point is you've

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Speaker 1: got a town which I think I have identified as

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Speaker 1: having one exit on the interstate. Okay, who else is

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Speaker 1: going to get into the area, unknown, unseen? And in

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Speaker 1: that small slice of time, break in to Emily Mason's home,

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Speaker 1: murder her, with her children home, and then the husband

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Speaker 1: comes home miraculously from Walmart, right exactly. So that's the point.

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Speaker 1: It's a very small community, and it's you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: knows everybody kind of community. And not only that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh I just ran to the store. How often have

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Speaker 1: we heard that before? You know? When it reminds me

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Speaker 1: of dal Kennedy, it reminds me of my rural area,

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Speaker 1: Rutland in Bibb County. I don't know if you're familiar

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Speaker 1: with that. You may be. It's off of the Harleybridge

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Speaker 1: Road exit south of Macon. And I go to a

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Speaker 1: little United Methodist church, Liberty United Methodist Church when I'm

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Speaker 1: in Macon, and there was a guy there, a lawyer

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Speaker 1: who his family had gone to the church in the past,

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Speaker 1: but he ended up dead apparently from slipping and falling.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was like, mmmmm, she did it. Long story short

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Speaker 1: in this case where everybody is Ashley Wilcott just said,

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Speaker 1: knows each other. Then suddenly she ends up dead. I

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Speaker 1: keep asking you about the scene because I want Karen Smith,

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Speaker 1: our forensics expert, to weigh in. Robin, tell me about

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Speaker 1: the murder of Emily Mason. What happened to her? Because

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Speaker 1: this is significant and I'm going to have our psychologists

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Speaker 1: weigh in on the significance of the mode of murder. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's the deal. She was bathing her children in a

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Speaker 1: bathtub and then suddenly somebody breaks into the house and apparently,

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Speaker 1: according to the medical examiner, she had knife wounds in

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Speaker 1: her neck. Nancy, somebody stabbed her with a knife three

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Speaker 1: times with a steak knife. Interesting, it was a stake

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Speaker 1: knife from the home. You know that's significant. Karen Starr

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Speaker 1: a psychologist. You can find her at Karen Stark dot com.

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Speaker 1: Joining us today out of Manhattan, Karen, Strangulation and stabbing

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Speaker 1: deaths are I have called in the past sweetheart murders.

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Speaker 1: Not that your sweetheart did it, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: you are so intimately connected with the victim you have.

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Speaker 1: It's not like shooting them at fifty paces. You have

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Speaker 1: to get up close to them. They're looking in your eyes.

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Speaker 1: Often is if you are strangling them when you stab them.

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Speaker 1: Unless you do it from behind, they see you, they

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Speaker 1: know you're stabbing them, and you're very close proximity to them.

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Speaker 1: It's an intimate murder. So here we've got the state

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Speaker 1: knife from the home, which suggests to me was this

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Speaker 1: planned or no? Because the perp used the state knife

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Speaker 1: from the home. Karen, I mean, I've been in your apartment,

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Speaker 1: your Luck's pad, and Manhattan with all of your many

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Speaker 1: many dogs that love to bark at the same time

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Speaker 1: people have a set of State knives. It's very easily

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Speaker 1: identifiable if it comes out of your kitchen. Not only that, Nancy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to what you just said

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Speaker 1: about a sweetheart murder, because that intimacy makes all the difference.

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Speaker 1: It means that the person who's committing this crime has

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Speaker 1: no problem letting that other person that they're killing know

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Speaker 1: that they are doing this. So they have so much

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Speaker 1: rage and anger that they actually want the person to know.

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Speaker 1: There's tremendous build up there, and it's very very different

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Speaker 1: than walking away, not being closed, letting somebody think I

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Speaker 1: don't know who it is. Right before they die. They're

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Speaker 1: enjoying this killing and the stabbing in the net. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's clearly to kill that. You know that's going to

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Speaker 1: be a mortal wound. I mean, the phrase go for

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Speaker 1: the juggular could not be any more true than it

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Speaker 1: is in this case. And Karen Smith, forensics expert. Guys,

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, listen to this. We've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: experiment recreations together. She's fantastic. Karen Smith, let me talk

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Speaker 1: to you about this for just one moment. It's a

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Speaker 1: steak knife out of the family home. That's highly significant.

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Speaker 1: You know what I like about steak knives. They're a

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Speaker 1: great way to get the perps DNA because if they

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Speaker 1: have a wooden handle, that DNA gets down in the

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Speaker 1: grooves of the wood. You don't always get that with

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Speaker 1: a plastic hand. All we might get a good fingerprint,

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Speaker 1: but you don't get that DNA down in the handle.

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Speaker 1: Another thing I love about knives, Karen Smith, is that

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Speaker 1: when the purp stabs, very often their hand will go

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Speaker 1: down the knife past the little hilt and they can

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Speaker 1: get sliced two when they stab that and gives their DNA. Right,

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Speaker 1: you find it right there on the scene if you

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Speaker 1: collect it properly. Karen Smith, that's absolutely right. A lot

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Speaker 1: of times in short sharp force injuries with knives, they

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Speaker 1: will slide down the hill, they'll go past that and

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Speaker 1: they'll cut their hand. A lot of times they'll cut

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Speaker 1: their forearm if it's a frenzy type killing, and that DNA,

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Speaker 1: that mixture can be found, and just looking at the

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Speaker 1: blood stains and looking at differences between the victim's blood

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Speaker 1: and perhaps some passive dripping that may have been left

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Speaker 1: at the scene on the way out of the crime

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Speaker 1: scene through the front door threshold, down the sidewalk to

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Speaker 1: an area where they may have had a transport like

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Speaker 1: a car or ran away. You can follow that trail

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Speaker 1: and if it's not the victims, you can sure bet

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Speaker 1: it's the perpetrator. Oman. Let's keep Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter where you can find this in all other

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Speaker 1: breaking crime and justice Knees Robin, you said she was

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Speaker 1: stabbed I think three times in the net. Was she

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Speaker 1: in the tub or were her girls in the tub?

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Speaker 1: And how old were the daughters. So the girls were

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Speaker 1: in the tub, and I know that one of the

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Speaker 1: daughters was four years old. Was she in the tub, Robin,

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Speaker 1: She was not in the tub. No, she was bathing,

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Speaker 1: So she was bathing them. You know you kind of

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Speaker 1: lean over the tubs and bathe your child with a

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Speaker 1: washcloth or whatever. So she was not in the tub,

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Speaker 1: but her child was in the tub. Oh my stars,

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Speaker 1: because that used to be the special time I have

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Speaker 1: with the twins. I would take each one into the

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Speaker 1: bathroom one at a time and let somebody else play

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Speaker 1: with the other twin and I would stay there for

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Speaker 1: like an hour with each twin before I had to

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Speaker 1: go to war. It would play in the water, would

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Speaker 1: sing ABC's. I mean, it was a really wonderful time.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about her and I mean I would

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Speaker 1: be completely hunched over the tub talking to them, washing them,

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Speaker 1: making sure they didn't slip underwater. Ashley, do you remember

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Speaker 1: those days with your children. I can distinctly remember that.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was some of my favorite time because

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Speaker 1: they loved bath and I love bath. That was the

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Speaker 1: end of the exhausting day and it was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we get fun time in the bathtub, and then you

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Speaker 1: get all the remember all the different like, oh, what's

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Speaker 1: the phone, the pink foam called mister bubbles? What does

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Speaker 1: that stuff used to have? As kids, like, we love

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Speaker 1: bathtime in our house when they were little, and I

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Speaker 1: would read them books in there. I immediately started teaching

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Speaker 1: them their ABC's when they were just you know, able

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Speaker 1: to sit up. And I well, for me, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the end of the day because I would bathe them

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Speaker 1: and then I'd have to climb out the back window

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Speaker 1: so in wet clothes from the bath so they would

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Speaker 1: now I was going to chel Lynn to hop on

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Speaker 1: the air or that have a big fit. But it

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Speaker 1: was still one of my favorite times. And I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to imagine this mom, beautiful professor English professor, gorgeous long

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Speaker 1: brunette's shiny hair, bathing her children, her two little girls,

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Speaker 1: and being stabbed literally in the jugular. A gorgeous young

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Speaker 1: college professor in rural Georgia in her home bathing her

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Speaker 1: two little girls, one of them aged four, when someone

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Speaker 1: comes in stabs her in the neck brutally. What a

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Speaker 1: crime scene with the little girls watching as mommy is

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Speaker 1: stabbed dead. Coincidentally, it's when Daddy had left home just

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Speaker 1: briefly to go to Walmart, comes home to a seen

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Speaker 1: I mean, I see Grace, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. I want to go to dal Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: WTOC reporter. So tell me about the husband. What do

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Speaker 1: we know about the husband? Walt Mason was also a

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Speaker 1: professor at the same community college where his wife was

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Speaker 1: a teacher. He taught physical education. The two of them

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Speaker 1: had been on staff. They had met there and you know,

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Speaker 1: they had they had gotten married and had two two children,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they had been there in the community

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Speaker 1: for a few years when this happened. So they both

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Speaker 1: taught together. You know, Karen, start working together is very

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Speaker 1: very difficult. Why Well, because it's just too much time

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Speaker 1: spent together and too many differences that can come up.

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Speaker 1: What if one person is doing much better than the other.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of competition, and so it's it's not

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Speaker 1: the most ideal situation. I often work with couples that

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Speaker 1: work together. I see them just to help them figure

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Speaker 1: out how they can get along and make something like

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Speaker 1: that turn out to be okay. It's very challenged. Robin

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Speaker 1: Molinski Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robin. You know,

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Speaker 1: a murder like this doesn't just happen out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: What was brewing within that home before Emily was murdered

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Speaker 1: right in front of her children. Well, here's the problem.

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Speaker 1: When this guy comes home and he finds his wife

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Speaker 1: on the floor dead, with the blood and the kids,

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Speaker 1: he's calling nine to one one. Nancy's screaming and shocked

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Speaker 1: that he leaves for however long he's out, and he

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Speaker 1: comes home and now my wife is dead. And here's

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Speaker 1: how he gets jammed up in this is that when

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Speaker 1: police ask him question number one, were you guys separating?

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Speaker 1: Were you guys getting a divorce? Are there marital problems?

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a police officer's job. Police one

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Speaker 1: on one I call it. And he says to the

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Speaker 1: police office, who show up at the house on this

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Speaker 1: nine one, responding to the nine one one, Paul, Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had marital problems, so ding ding ding. Now they're thinking, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: she hated him. He hated her, and I believe that's

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Speaker 1: how he got jammed up in this situation. Well wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, what do you mean. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you mean by jammed up. I mean

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Speaker 1: his wife's dead on the floor while he had a

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Speaker 1: convenient trip to Walmart. But what were the what was

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Speaker 1: the marital problem? I mean they were fighting, they had arguments.

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Speaker 1: As he put it, it it wasn't a perfect marriage, and

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Speaker 1: people argue in their relationship. To Dal Kennedy, WTOC reporter

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Speaker 1: who has cracked a lot of stories revolving around this case,

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Speaker 1: Dal Kennedy, what was the problem. Why did he blurt

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Speaker 1: out to police they had marital problems. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that was brought up was that that she was

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Speaker 1: perhaps maybe more assertive, and that he felt insecure, you know,

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Speaker 1: from her success, from her academics, um, you know, one

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Speaker 1: person teaches an academic subject and teaching physical education, that

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Speaker 1: maybe there was some insecurity on his part his teaching

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Speaker 1: compared to hers. UM. There were also, you know, witnesses

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Speaker 1: that she was critical, openly critical of him towards other people,

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Speaker 1: and you know he perhaps resented some of that. Oh

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Speaker 1: my goodness. Ashley Willcott judge the lawyer anchor. You can

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Speaker 1: find her Ashley Walcott dot com. My dad was so happy,

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Speaker 1: My mom worked, h so proud of her achieving. She

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Speaker 1: went from bank teller to the CFO of a company.

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Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, I never heard him say a word,

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Speaker 1: and he was right there, Ashley, and he and mother

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Speaker 1: both would come to many of my trials. Could not

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Speaker 1: have been prouder. And so when I hear stories like this,

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Speaker 1: all I can do is compare it to my dad

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Speaker 1: and my husband David. If I something good happens with me,

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Speaker 1: he's thrilled and likewise, uh and bottom line, he taught

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Speaker 1: pe she taught English literature. The paycheck was probably the same.

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Speaker 1: So who cares? Well that shot should be in a

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Speaker 1: perfect marriage, right, you should have a partner that supports

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Speaker 1: you in your efforts, support you in your career, support

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Speaker 1: you and all your successes. That's how it should be.

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Speaker 1: But we all know that doesn't always happen. Egos get involved,

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Speaker 1: and let's be honest. You know, Nancy, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people have marital issues. So the fact he said, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had merital issues, does that mean he committed this murder?

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not, so as you will, Coot, you're the

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Speaker 1: juvenile judge. The children had to see what happened, and

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Speaker 1: there is a host of difficulties of putting children this

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Speaker 1: young on the stand. For instance, they may be nonverbal,

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Speaker 1: they may be so traumatized they can't relate what they saw.

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Speaker 1: They may not want to get their dad in trouble.

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Speaker 1: And I remember in the Josh Powell case, Remember he

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Speaker 1: killed his wife, Susan Powell later on years later killed

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Speaker 1: the two boys. When the two boys were asked what

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Speaker 1: happened to night mommy disappeared, they drew a picture of

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Speaker 1: them in the car with their dad and mommy in

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Speaker 1: the car trunk. Okay, so they did not say what happened,

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Speaker 1: but the picture showed at all. I worked with many,

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Speaker 1: many child victims and a host of felonies, and you

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Speaker 1: have to be able to spend time with them, not

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Speaker 1: pressure them, get them to open up, and they speak

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Speaker 1: their own language. Like in every indict when you have

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Speaker 1: to give a general time period when the crime happened,

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Speaker 1: I would say things like was the Christmas tree up

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Speaker 1: when this happened? Would the Easter bunny come? Did you

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Speaker 1: have as you already picked out your Halloween outfit? Things

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Speaker 1: like that to get a time reference. So actually, there's

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Speaker 1: a host of problems with putting children on the stand.

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Speaker 1: And then of course the defense always claims their line absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So two things Number one is, when you have children

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Speaker 1: make any statements, it can be used and should be

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Speaker 1: used for law enforcement to thoroughly investigate and try to

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Speaker 1: find other evidence that links the crime to the actual

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Speaker 1: defendant who's accused of murdering this person. Number two is, yes,

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Speaker 1: they're a host of shoes, you know as well as

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Speaker 1: I do. Though the defendants have the right to confront

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Speaker 1: and so theoretically, yes, the children may need to testify.

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Speaker 1: What's crucial then, is to do it in a child

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Speaker 1: friendly manner as much as possible to lessen the trauma

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Speaker 1: to that child if they have to testify. So Robert Willinsky,

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, the girls had to

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Speaker 1: see mommy gets stabbed. She was bathing them. Yes, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: the four year old definitely saw it happened that I

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Speaker 1: know for sure. I'm looking at a photo of them.

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Speaker 1: The four year old has a beautiful, long brunette shiny

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Speaker 1: hair like her mom. And oh, they're so cute. Mommy's

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Speaker 1: holding them sitting on a family's sofa, and the other

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Speaker 1: one is really a taught I'm not totally sure she'd

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Speaker 1: sit up on her own, but probably so. Dal Kennedy

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Speaker 1: WTOC what can you tell me about what the girls

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Speaker 1: maybe said about when mommy was stabbed in the neck

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Speaker 1: during bathtime? She referred to it, and they never really

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Speaker 1: understood what she meant. But she referred to the brown

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Speaker 1: man or a man wearing brown being in the house

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Speaker 1: and chasing mommy, you know, from the bathroom, back back

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Speaker 1: past the bathroom, you know, in the other rooms, and

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Speaker 1: they could hear, you know, they could hear commotion. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine this being the last memory of your mother,

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Speaker 1: hearing her running from room to room screaming where the

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Speaker 1: man in brown chased her? What a child will do

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Speaker 1: to cover for their dad? Is that what happened? Hi?

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here? Have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors,

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Speaker 1: somebody at work, a crush? Fifty seven percent of Americans

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00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 1: and met to keeping an eye on their own online reputation.

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Speaker 1: Forty six admit to using the Internet to look up

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Speaker 1: somebody from their past. But Google and Facebook, that's yep

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00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: of the iceberg when it comes to finding personal information.

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00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 1: There's an innovative new website called Truthfinder. It's now revealing

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00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,080
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Speaker 1: through hundreds of millions of public records in a matter

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00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:20,200
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00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,080
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00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,800
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00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: slash Nancy right away to start searching truthfinder dot com

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00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: forward slash Nancy truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy. Find

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Speaker 1: the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine as a

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Speaker 1: child sitting in the bathtub, your mom bathing you, your

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Speaker 1: little sister there, and you hear your mom running from

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Speaker 1: room to room screaming. That's your last memory of mommy.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened when young mom and college professor

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Speaker 1: Emily Mason was murdered in her own home at her

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Speaker 1: daughter's bathtime. She had been bathing the two little girls,

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Speaker 1: one an infant, one four years old, when she was

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Speaker 1: brutally stabbed in the neck multiple times. The dad had

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Speaker 1: conveniently gone to Walmart came home to find Emily dead.

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Speaker 1: For the longest time, the children couldn't speak until one

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Speaker 1: child said it was the man in brown or words

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Speaker 1: to that effect. It wasn't long after when Emily's husband

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Speaker 1: was indicted, Walter C. Mason Junior. Is it true he

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Speaker 1: was indicted, was booked in two years, passed to dal

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Speaker 1: Kennedy WTSC. Yes. The whole community was waiting on Walt

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Speaker 1: Mason to face trial and for you know, the evidence

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Speaker 1: to come forward. So dal Kennedy w t OC. He's

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Speaker 1: charged with murder, a brutal murder. His children are taken

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Speaker 1: away from him. Of course he's on bond, he has

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Speaker 1: to wait two years. In fact, he actually had to

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Speaker 1: leave Emmanuel County. He was so shunned he left the county.

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Speaker 1: Of course, ashe Wilcott, judges will order no contact with

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Speaker 1: the children, only supervised contact, right, So he had no

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Speaker 1: way of knowing exactly what his children were saying, right Ash, Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: that's typical. Why is that, Well, it's because they don't

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Speaker 1: he's accused of the crime, right, somebody else had these children,

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Speaker 1: and they do not want him to be around the

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Speaker 1: children unsupervised because they're fearful. Probably rightfully, so, if somebody's

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Speaker 1: been charged that something's going to happen to those children,

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Speaker 1: that they're going to do something to the children. You're right,

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Speaker 1: their witnesses, their witnesses to mommy's brutal stabbing death. But

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Speaker 1: then everything changed because not long after that, somebody robbed

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Speaker 1: a coffee store employee at knife point. Somebody robbed a

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Speaker 1: coffee store employee at knife point, emphasis on knife point.

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Speaker 1: And the robber was not Emily's husband, Walter C. Mason Junior.

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Speaker 1: The robber was Philip Scott Kirby Senior, Dal Kennedy. Did

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Speaker 1: the coffee shot robbery occur in Swainsborough? It did. So

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Speaker 1: you've got in a very very small town, a rural area,

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Speaker 1: another knife related incident, a violent knife related incident. But

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Speaker 1: still it means nothing to Emily's murder. But the fact

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Speaker 1: that he robbed at knife point, Karen stark, typically in

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Speaker 1: this day and age, robberies are done with a gun.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he used a knife, another knife related

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Speaker 1: incident in this small town, to me, is a red

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Speaker 1: flag right there. Karen starts, Yeah, especially because it's a

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Speaker 1: small town. They don't see that many incidents of people

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Speaker 1: being killed. And as we said before, this is somebody

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Speaker 1: who murders and enjoys it, so wants that contact and

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Speaker 1: intimacy that we talked about and that would make them wonder.

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Speaker 1: I always think about why you would want money so

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Speaker 1: badly you would hold someone at knife point or gunpoint

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Speaker 1: to get it. It's a whole other mentality. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you're going into Macie's and shoplifting. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you're picking up a five dollar bill off the ground

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Speaker 1: and not trying to find out who did it. You're

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Speaker 1: willing to hold a knife to somebody's face to take

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Speaker 1: their money, and you mean it. They're so afraid they

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Speaker 1: give you what you want. It's that mentality. It's probably

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Speaker 1: something most of us can cannot relate to. So you've

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Speaker 1: got another knife incident in a very small town. Now

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Dal Kennedy w t OC.

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Speaker 1: What was Philip Scott Kirby Senior doing for a living

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Speaker 1: at the time Emily was murdered at bathtime? He was

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Speaker 1: a repairman. He was a repairman, what kind of repairman? What?

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Speaker 1: What did he do? Like? Refrigerators, heating, what heating, heating

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Speaker 1: and air conditioning. So this is the guy that did

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Speaker 1: water heaters, heating and air repairs in Swainsborough. Can I

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Speaker 1: ask you one question, Dal Kennedy? What color was his

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Speaker 1: uniform brown well brown shirt other than having a brown

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Speaker 1: shirt on. What else can you tell me, Dale Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about a pair of sweatpants

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Speaker 1: at the scene of Emily's murder in that blood soaked scene,

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Speaker 1: and a wedding band. The hair was sort of a

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Speaker 1: mystery that they could not match it up to anything

426
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: until Philip Kirby is convicted, he's sent to prison and

427
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: his DNA is put into the state database. His DNA

428
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: matches up to fat hair. Wow, Now what he can argue.

429
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: Of course, what Philip Kirby can argue is that he

430
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: did repairs in the home and that was simply one

431
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: of his hairs. We know Kirby had worked in Emily's

432
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: home as a repairman. But what more can you tell me?

433
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: Because somebody's got to explain the way his wedding band,

434
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: Robin Willinsky, was that his wedding band? Yeah, it was

435
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: his wedding band. During the crime, he dropped his wedding band.

436
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: He didn't wear the wedding band on his finger like

437
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: a normal person. Because he's using his hands to fix

438
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: things in the house, the heat and the air conditioner.

439
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: His wedding band when he was wearing a chain. I've

440
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: seen women do this where you wear the wedding band

441
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: on a chain instead of on your finger. Well, as

442
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: a guy, he did the same thing because he's using

443
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: his hands, and in the context of the crime, when

444
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: he's running after her with the knife, running down the hallway,

445
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: stabbing her in the neck, the wedding band that's on

446
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 1: a chain around his neck falls off, and he's claiming

447
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: it's not his ring, but it is his ring. Here's

448
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: the reality though. He was just in the home the

449
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,479
Speaker 1: day before making a repair. That's his defense. It was unusual, Nancy,

450
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: for a case to progress like it did and then

451
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 1: go in a completely different direction. Initially, the husband, Walt Mason,

452
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: was the prime suspect, was arrested, was even indicted. And

453
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, from what you might consider circumstan angel evidence.

454
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: When you know was a spouse or you know a

455
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: person is found murdered the you know, most of the

456
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: time the first suspect is the spouse, and his alibi

457
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: was I had gone to the store for a few minutes,

458
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: you know, just across town, in the small town of Swainsboro.

459
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: When I came back, my wife is brutally murdered, here

460
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: in the floor. The kids are in the other room.

461
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: You know, investigators had a hard time believing that a

462
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: beautiful young college professor, Emily Mason bathing her two infant

463
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: girls when she's stabbed brutally in the neck. Her husband

464
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: almost immediately under suspicion, arrested and indicted. He is so

465
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: shunned in the Swainsborough neighborhood, and why shouldn't he be?

466
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: The girls are taken away. It was so bad he

467
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: moved out of the county and then in a fluke

468
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: two years a later, another guy, Philip Kirby, robs a

469
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: coffee shop at knife point. He gets tested, he has

470
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: to submit to DNA and bam, the case breaks wide open.

471
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: His DNA matches hair at the scene of Emily's murder

472
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: years before, and a wedding ring is found. It's his

473
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: wedding ring. Then he explains, well, you know what, I

474
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: work on home repairs. I wear it on a chain

475
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: around my neck. It fell off. You can't frame me

476
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: for murder. But what about this Dall Kennedy WTOC reporter,

477
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: How can you explain that the night of Emily's murder

478
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: he has found covered in blood in a car near

479
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: the home. His claim was that he was in a

480
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: car wreck and that that was the explanation for his

481
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: wounds and for the blood. Darn. Oh, he's got an

482
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: answer for everything. But wait a minute, Robin Willinski, what

483
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: did he say about the wedding band? Did he say

484
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: he lost the wedding band during the car wreck? He

485
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: can't explain in away the wedding band. He yes, he

486
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: could say anything, that he lost it in the car wreck,

487
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: that he lost it here, he lost the there, it's

488
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: not his ring. He's got every excuse in the book.

489
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: But he stages Nancy this car accident. This car accident

490
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: is just two miles from the house, and he drives

491
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: his vehicle into a dick idiot, so he gets hurt.

492
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: What an idiot, Karen Stark, Why don't you have to

493
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: Why don't you just go home and clean up? Why

494
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: stage a car crash? Well, I don't know if he

495
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: was such an idiot, Nancy, because he was worried. I'm

496
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: guessing that if he went home, maybe that his wife

497
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: the wedding band he wore around his neck would notice

498
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: that there was all this blood. There must have been

499
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: that much blood that he felt he couldn't get away

500
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: with going home, and so he decided to crash his

501
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: car and make his look as though he had been

502
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: in this terrible accident. And that was theod Oh, what

503
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: a tangled web we weave when first we practice too

504
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: deceived Ashley Wilcote. Can you imagine him, Ashley in the

505
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: car leaving the murder, and then he touches his neck

506
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: and finds out the wedding band isn't there? Listen the

507
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: good news for us as criminals, they're not always what's smart.

508
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: They're not, and they panic and they make stupid decisions

509
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: and do stupid things, and quite frankly, wa wa wait.

510
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: Despite the DNA evidence matching up to the hair there,

511
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: prosecutors felt that's just not enough. He was just in

512
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: the home repairing the day before. Even though the little

513
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: girl says it was the man in brown, there were

514
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: arguments that she may have said the brown man versus

515
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: the man in brown. They still didn't feel they had

516
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: a case. And then Kirby was set to be released

517
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 1: on the coffee store robbery. Then evidence comes forward. The

518
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: state digs, They dig, and they dig, and they find

519
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: the receipt for that wedding band. It's the same exact

520
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: wedding band found in the home. Listen to this. The

521
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: unsolved murder of Emily Mason has kept tongues wagging in

522
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: Emmanuel County for more than a decade. Today, prosecutors made

523
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: their move, had arrested their suspect in this case. Just

524
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: as he was about to walk out of prison, a freeman,

525
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: Philip Kirby, traded one jumpsuit for another and walked into

526
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: Superior Court to hear the charge of felony murder against him.

527
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: Judge Cathy Palmer told him he's accused in the two

528
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: thousand and two murder of Emily Pastona Mason, a wife

529
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: and mother assaulted in her family's home. Had just recently

530
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 1: had decided to review older case files, and based on

531
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: the review of that case, Fowle, it was determined that

532
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: it was time to proceed forward with it. Wow, you're

533
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: hearing our friend dal Kennedy from WTOC who was with

534
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: us right now. You know, one thing always stuck in

535
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: my mind now the entire time when the husband, Walter

536
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: was being shunned, when his children were not really allowed

537
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: to see after his wife's murder, when everyone thought he

538
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: was guilty, her family stood by him, Her family, Emily

539
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: Mason's family and his family of course stood by him.

540
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: They never believed it, Dale, Is that true. It is

541
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: they were. They were extremely supportive. It was interesting the

542
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: time frame of that, because prosecutors announced Philip Kirby as

543
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: a person of interest as a suspect when they dropped

544
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: the charges against Walt Mason, and Philip Kirby went to

545
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: prison and served his full term. And that's why there was,

546
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, more than a decade between him named as

547
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: a suspect before he ever went to trial. Is it true,

548
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: Dal Kennedy, did this guy, Phillip Scott Kirby Senior had

549
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: a prior rape charge. Yes, that is true. The prosecutors

550
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: actually brought a witness of a co worker that when

551
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: he had come back from the Mason house was talking

552
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: about her and said that he was going to go

553
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: back to see her sometime. Well, you know, I've been

554
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: wondering over and over and over in my mind, Robin,

555
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: what was the motive? And now we know he was

556
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: in the home the day before doing a hot water

557
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: heater repair and he sees her And it reminds me

558
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: of the recent case of Jamie Class. The Purp in

559
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: that case, is behind the school bus and he sees

560
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: Jamie class the little girl get off the school bus,

561
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: the red headed girl, and he says, I'm taking her.

562
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: It's just like that. Can I tell you what happened

563
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: to me? Karen Stark as a prosecutor, I was having

564
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: I tried to paint the inside of my house, and

565
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: I was just running out of time, working, working, So

566
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: I finally hired some guy, a friend of a friend

567
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: whatever recommended. I was getting ready to leave one morning

568
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: he came in to finish the painting. Do you know

569
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: this guy had to be six or five, grabbed me

570
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: and kissed me right on the mouth, right on the

571
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: Mouthcaren Stark, Well, that inspired a section in my new book,

572
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim. But when you invite let people

573
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: in your home, that's a very tricky situation. Karen. Can

574
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: you imagine this perv telling people at work, I saw

575
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: this beautiful mom, I want to go back and see her,

576
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: and not being aware of the fact that, I mean,

577
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: how ridiculous, Nancy, that he doesn't think well, somebody might

578
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: take notice of that, the fact that I'm saying I

579
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: want to go back and check this woman out and

580
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that story about you. How awful

581
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: people have to be very, very careful when there's a

582
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: stranger in your home that needs to really be pushed

583
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: into everybody's consciousness. I don't want to sound like I'm

584
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: blaming her, because I'm not. She didn't even know he

585
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: was coming in the day that he came in and

586
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: murdered her. I mean, in her mind, this is just

587
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: a hot water heater repair guy, you know, Nancy, I

588
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: agree with you on your point about Jamie Cloths and

589
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: the suspect who saw her and grabbed her from the

590
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: bus stop. This is the same thing. This crime was

591
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: one hundred percent premeditated, and that this repair guy saw

592
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: this beautiful woman, saw the two little girls, kept thinking

593
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: about it, thinking about it, thinking about it, and came

594
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: back and committed this horrendous crime. It was one hundred

595
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: percent premeditated. It's like an animal out in the wild

596
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: that sees another animal says I'm going to tear its

597
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: throat out, and that's what happened. He sees this beautiful

598
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: young mom. If you could see a picture of her

599
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: right now, which you can crime online, this beautiful or

600
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 1: skinlet's like porcelain long, beautiful, dark brown, shiny hair, chestnut colored, big,

601
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: perfect smile, holding these bays bees. He sees that and

602
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: instead of thinking, what a gorgeous mom, what a happy family,

603
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: his instinct is to stabber in the throat and try

604
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: to rape her. It's the difference and a regular person

605
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: and a predator. Like you walk through the park or

606
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: you go on a walk and you see a bunny

607
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: rabbit cross your path, is your instinct to chase it

608
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: down and tear its throat out? Probably not, but that's

609
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: what a predator would do. And that's what this guy is.

610
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: And these children grow up deep in their subconscious knowing

611
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: mommy was giving them a bath when she was brutally attacked.

612
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: Their last memory of mommy is her running from room

613
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: to room screaming. And it was not daddy, it was

614
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: this guy. Philip Scott Kirby Senior, may he rot in Hell.

615
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,