WEBVTT - David Freiberg 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.560 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:19.079 My guest today is David Ryper. David, there's a Mickey 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.599 Thomas Starship and you're the Jefferson Starship. Explain to me 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:24.560 what's going on here. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:33.720 Oh okay, that sounds a bit confusing. Okay, So there 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:39.320 was a Jefferson Starship and that was Paul Cantner. Actually, 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.000 Paul Kntnor, Grace Slick and I were starting it kind 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.840 of because we we were what was left of Jefferson, 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.239 part of what was left of Jefferson Airplane when they 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.440 decided not to be Jefferson Airplane anymore. And we had 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.920 recorded a couple of albums and we thought we need 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.279 to go out on the road, and we didn't know 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:00.520 what to call it. And so I'm going way back 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:01.400 to the beginning here. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.559 So well, actually I'd like to go back to the beginning. Leader, Okay, 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:06.560 let's just talk. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:08.320 I gotcha right now. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.840 My understandings, there's two acts, and why are the two 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:13.080 acts and what is the difference? 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:21.800 Okay. Paul Kantner restarted Jefferson's Starship in the nineties after 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.000 it was did not exist for the for the for 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:29.440 the five last five years of the eighties, it became Starship. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.319 But then at the end of that Starship ceased to exist. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.640 So Paul thought, well, a fine time, just restart and 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.440 do what I want to do, what I've always loved 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.320 to do, So we restarted Jefferson Starship. So Mickey Thomas 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.440 was the lead singer in Starship. He wanted something to do. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.640 So I do not know anything for a fact here. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:54.320 I assume that he so going against all the legal 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.720 things he managed to I guess he could call it 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:02.280 Starship featuring Mickey Thomas or Mickey Thomas's Starship, and they 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.520 would let him do that. But meanwhile, there's this other 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.320 Jefferson Starship that was existing with Paul Kantner right along 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:16.000 the way, and this band is what is left. We 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.760 were all in the final version of Jefferson Starship when 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.519 Paul passed away in twenty sixteen. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.320 Okay, if I go to see Jefferson Starship and you 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.560 do many gigs on the road, what material am I 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:30.079 going to hear? 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:37.640 Stuff from the whole Jefferson Starship, airplane even Starship era. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.639 We'll do it all, Okay, I don't know whether you're 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.919 actually going to hear every single song we ever did. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.000 That would be impossible, but yeah, we do it from 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:48.880 all the eras. 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.160 And do you do the same set every night when 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.160 you have like a run of dates or do you 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:53.919 vary it up? 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.240 We vary it up. I mean that all depends on 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:02.000 what we're doing, meaning what Okay, Well, say we were 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:07.280 going out opening up for bt O and UH and 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.000 Uh Marshall Tucker and so we only had a half 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.560 hours being the opening band for this last little bit, 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.799 and so we just had it. We did do the 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.720 same set there because we picked the songs, the songs 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.639 that they thought that the audience would have to hear. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.919 So we fit squeeze seven songs into a half an hour. 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:31.080 So it's pretty good. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.160 Okay, I'm interesting because it's a big catalog and I'm 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.480 familiar with it. What are the sevens I could guess, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.560 But what are the seven songs people have to hear? 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.120 Well? I don't know this. This are the ones we 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.480 came up with that we could fit, we could piece 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.640 together that would would work. Okay, what did we do? 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:52.920 We did find your way back? We did miracles. Then 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:57.080 we did Nothing's going to stop us now? And we 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:05.960 did uh why rabbit and we did. We built this city, 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.040 and we did Jane, and then we did Somebody to Love. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.800 If we were lucky, it had ended before thirty minutes. 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:19.240 Okay, you're eighty six years old, Yeah, soon to turn 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.120 eighty seven. What is keeping you on the road. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.240 These people that are in the band right now, that 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.800 we get along so well, and the whole thing. When 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:34.680 Paul passed away, we said, well, now what are we 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.440 going to do? We love each other so much, and 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.840 Grace and Grace Slick decided that she thought she thought 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.360 the band should go on, and she and she had 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.120 the key to the highway, so she gave us the license. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.760 Well, you've been doing this for sixty almost years at 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:59.719 almost sixty. What is the difference going out at eighty 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:02.320 as opposed to twenty six? 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.040 Well, I can move around a little better back when 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.400 I was twenty six. I'm a little slower, I say, 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.560 I don't know. I can still sing knock on wood. 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.359 Let me ask questions a little. A lot of people 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.840 don't live to eighty six. There are people who are 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:28.559 totally spried Cochin and able into their nineties. Their acts 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.880 on the road today in their late seventies were on 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.360 the road and can't sing. I guess what I'm saying 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.839 is so many people are plagued by health proms. You're 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.599 obviously talking to me, But you've lived so long. Is 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.280 it because the luck of the genes? Or is it 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:50.120 because you take such good care of yourself? What explains 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:51.520 your spryness. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.520 I go with the former, the luck of the genes, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.400 because I haven't particularly taken very good care of myself. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.640 I mean, I do, you know, I do go to 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.640 the gym and work out now to to keep my 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:11.400 you know, my you know, my self, you know, torso safe, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:17.080 you know, keep it in shape. But other than that, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.200 I mean I try to eat a sensible diet, and 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.560 not that I don't have any problems I have. I 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.640 have a I have an artificial heart valve, you know, 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:29.960 but it seems to be working. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:32.760 Since where you know, you're doing great. It's like my 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.440 doctor says, all of his patients who lived to ninety 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.839 have had at least one bout of cancer. Have you 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:38.560 had cancer? 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.640 I just had a couple of lymph nodes that had 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.440 ever removed, But knock on wood, I don't have any now. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.440 So what pills do you take every day? And how 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:52.840 many pills. 0:06:53.400 --> 0:07:01.000 Oh, I take about I don't know, two, three, four, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.919 about five six pills twice a day something like that. 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.760 Okay, there are a lot of people who say, I 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.560 don't want to take pills, and going back to my 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.640 doctor again, is you take the pills. They're going to 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.360 keep you alive. They're doing things. You have a viewpoint 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:16.200 on the pills at all. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.560 Well, my only only thing I can I can fathom 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.440 is that they are keeping me alive because I ain't dead. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:25.800 You know. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.080 Okay, how old did your parents live to? 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.280 Mom made it to ninety two and dad made it 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:33.960 to eighty eight. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.320 Okay, not the same in my family. But you do 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.440 have good genes. Okay, when you live to eighty six, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.800 a lot of friends pass away before you do. How 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.000 do you metabolize that? How do you cope with it? 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:55.080 You have to accept it? And I don't know. I've 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.240 I tend to accept that. The universe, I'm not I'm 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.360 not sure the law of conservation of energy, you know, 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.920 if if it exists, it's going to exist in another 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:14.080 form somehow, nothing disappears, you know, it's either mass or 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:19.280 it's energy, and and so I don't know. I don't know. 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.320 I have yet to find out, I suppose. Okay, So 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.000 if I find out I've forgotten. 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.800 Other than your bandmates, do you have a best friend 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.480 someone you can call or if some of those people 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.840 passed away and you've had to switch to another person. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.680 A lot of them passed away, sure, most of them. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.120 Wow, Okay, let's go back to the beginning. So where 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:47.239 are you from originally? 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.480 Well? I was born in Boston, And what did would 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.800 your parents do for a living in Boston? My dad 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.120 came from a fairly wealthy family and it was right 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.040 in the in the during the depression, so they seem 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.240 to have kept him in Harvard for the whole depression. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.240 And when I was born, I think I think he 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.000 had he has four Harvard degrees, so it makes me 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.679 think that he couldn't figure out what else to do 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.040 and he ended up being an attorney. I think he 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.480 was working for the New England Dairy Farmers or something. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:25.679 He was their attorney. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.880 Then how do you meet your mother? What was her story? 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:35.480 They were both from Cincinnati and they I don't know, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:41.439 they ran into each other and I and I believe 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.520 dad's college roommate married my mom's sister. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:50.360 So okay, So how long did you live in Boston? 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:57.880 Only until I was about this Second World War? My 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.000 dad went in the Navy and my mom went back 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.520 to live with their parents in Cincinnati. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.839 Okay, do you have any memories of that era? 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:16.080 Yeah? I few still linger tell me, Oh, I remember, 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.360 you know, saving saving cans and things like that for 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:27.480 for for the war effort. Yeah. Uh. And terrible stories 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:32.200 that came back being Jewish RADI stories came back, you know. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.520 So the war ends, then what happens? 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.839 Uh? I was I end up? I end up? Uh? 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:49.240 My dad was an in the Attu Island for most 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.320 of the war, just the Boer War he called it. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:57.960 Nothing ever happened. And then the then before he got discharged, 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.960 they stationed it in North Carolina, and I'd had one 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.760 to the second grade in North Carolina. And then when 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.640 he got discharged, we moved back to Cincinnati, which is 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.600 where I stayed until I moved out here in nineteen 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:13.319 fifty nine. 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.440 Okay, you're living in Cincinnati. You have brothers and sisters, 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.280 two brothers and a sister. Yes, And where are you 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:21.199 in the hierarchy. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:23.559 I'm the oldest, the oldest. 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.200 All the hopes and dreams were in you. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.400 They're all still here. I don't know whether his hopes 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.400 and dreams. I thought he thought he was going to 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.240 get a doctor or a lawyer or something. 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.480 What have your siblings been up to? What would their 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:37.480 lives look like? 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.800 My brother was an advertising art director for all of 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.760 his life, and I know he's kind, but they're all 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.079 into They're all into music a little bit. I mean 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:53.640 he plays viola and string quartets, as did eye when 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:54.600 I was in high school. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.240 But okay, you're going to school, what kind of kid 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:00.480 and what kind of student? Were you? 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:07.160 Terrible? I didn't get along with my father. He expected 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.600 me to hit the books. Because I think I've looked. 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:16.080 I kind of learned that that he uh he didn't 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.320 do well in school, but he got into Harvard anyway, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.800 and he and then he learned to buckle down and 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:27.160 get things done, thus the four Harvard degrees. But uh 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.880 so he wanted me to and I completely revolted it, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.760 and I must I do not remember doing this on purpose, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.920 but I did terribly in high school. He really wanted 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.600 me to go to Harvard, but there was no way 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.160 that I was. I couldn't make myself do homework. But 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.040 I was very interested. I was playing in the orchestra. 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.640 I was playing, you know, in high school. I played 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.440 violin and viola and the orchestra and string quartets. It 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.600 was pretty good for a high school guy. But I 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.760 wasn't prodigy or anything. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.640 Where did the music come from? There was there music 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:06.559 in the house. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.720 Constantly he played. They played classical music, and he liked 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:18.760 He liked Benny Goodman, he liked Lewis Armstrong and all 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:24.200 the Broadway hits. They were always playing and we could 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.160 sing them all, you know, all the kids. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:32.560 Okay, you're of an age you could remember the birth 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.640 of rock and roll. Can you tell me your first 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.280 experience of hearing Rocket eighty eight or Rock around the Clock? 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.600 And you know, did you like it? Did you dislike it? 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.680 I did like it, but it was so frowned upon 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:51.080 in my house. I mean, I could not get a guitar. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.440 I really wanted a guitar, but I could never I 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.720 never bought one until I had moved to San Francisco, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.560 and I was by about almost twenty two, I think, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:02.920 before I bought my first guitar. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.680 Okay, you graduate from high school, then what do you 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:08.719 do in Cincinnati? 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.439 I went to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:15.959 And did you graduate? 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:23.160 No? I I changed my major every semester. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:25.880 How many years did you go to Miami? 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.920 I got three and a half. I think I got 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.400 I had one hundred and twenty units, but they were 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.880 all in different places, and it had taken me another 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:41.520 three years to graduate to get a major. And I thought, well, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.520 I'm going to end up being an English major, and 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.200 what am I going to do with that, you know? 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.280 And so I just I spent the whole time kind 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.280 of trying. First thing, my father said, you got to 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.560 be a scientist or or you know, or something, because 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.000 science is what's coming, you know. And so I try 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.880 and I failed. That is so I spent most of 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:09.000 my time screwing around, acting in place in the drama department, 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.840 but I took no classes in drama and singing and 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.200 singing in the choir and the and the Menscale club. 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.880 But I took no classes in music, even though I 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.160 had been recruited there by the head of the viola 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.840 department when I played viola in high school to go 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.200 there to study music. But music was nothing a good 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.240 Jewish boy was supposed to do unless you were David, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.480 you know. Unless you were pick one, you hooty menu 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:37.120 and I don't know. 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.560 Okay, so you're there in Miami. I assume on your 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:50.720 father's dollar. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.960 Right, absolutely wasting every penny of it. 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.640 Okay, how do you decide to drop out? And what 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:57.840 does your father say? 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.800 Oh? We we ended up not talking mostly, you know. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.080 I rebelled and I married the Catholic girl, my Catholic 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:13.080 girlfriend from college, and we got married and we just 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.160 knuck out of town and moved to San Francisco. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.520 Okay, let's back up. Tell me about meeting this woman 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:20.360 and getting married. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.200 I don't know things happened. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.000 How'd you decide to get married? 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:37.520 Oh? I don't know. That part is pretty doesn't remain 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:38.960 with me very much anymore. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:41.800 Okay. How long were you married to that woman? 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.120 Until a year after we got to San Francisco. 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.800 Okay, so you're with this woman? Why san Francisco. 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.800 I know when I was about a teenager, all of 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.760 us piled in a car and shrove all through the 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:02.920 United States. And when we came into San Francisco one summer, right, 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.000 all of us in the car. They come around on 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.879 the US one oh one coming into San Francisco, and 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.040 it was just about sunset. The fog was coming in 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.960 the sky was pink. It was the most beautiful thing 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.640 I'd ever seen. And we probably had the best dinner 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.520 I've ever had. And I just thought in my head, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.960 I'm going to live here and somehow, And so that's 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.520 why I probably picked that. And also, I mean there 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.600 was the beat Nicks were out here, and I kind 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.960 of I was interested in that. And I was interested 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.639 in folk music, although I had didn't have a guitar yet, 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.040 but I was. I was always listening to it and 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.000 singing it. And I was a big peat Seeger fan, 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:47.359 and I love the Weavers. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:54.080 And so, okay, you're talking to your new wife, what 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.600 is your pitch and what is the dream of what's 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.960 going to happen once you get to San Francisco. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.119 Think most of us was getting out of Cincinnati because 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.840 she wasn't having a good time there either. She wanted 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.480 to get away from her mother and I wanted to 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:09.480 get away from my father. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.359 Although, okay, you get to San Francisco, what are you 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:13.760 living on? 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:22.840 I tried to I had a little a little inheritance 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.400 that I already had. It came from my grandparents, I think, 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.920 so I went through that pretty quick. But I was 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.399 supposed to have a job at a I don't know, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:39.480 some trucking company, but it turned out not to be 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.160 there when I got there. So I think I worked 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:47.040 for a pawn shop in Oakland until I got a 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:52.040 job with the Southern Pacific Railroad in their main office 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.360 in San Francisco, and because I liked trains, but after 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.439 I got there, I learned that that they didn't really 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:03.359 like trains. They like money. And so I worked my 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.399 way up and I was a freight rate analyst, but 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.960 I was a but back up a little bit. The 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.680 wife disappears, and I have no idea where she's gone. 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.560 A little bit slower. You go to work one day 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.120 and you come home she's not there. 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:25.119 She's not there, and no sign of her. The cops 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:26.160 haven't heard anything. 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:28.120 Is there stuff going? 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.720 No? Some of it? Okay, you know, it's not like 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.359 you know. I have no idea what happened. And the 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.760 only thing I could think of to do was I 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:44.920 went out and bought a guitar and I started to 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.280 learn how to play guitar, and eventually I found her. 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.280 Some I think I was driving through Golden Gate Park 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:52.639 and I saw her, and I ran over to he 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.920 and say, hey, what's going on? And she came back 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.040 and she was pregnant. 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.119 Pregnant with someone else's baby. 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.479 Someone else's baby. 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.200 Okay. Just to get the timeline straight, how long after 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.879 she had disappeared did you run into it? 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:12.240 Oh? Matter of weeks? 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.360 Okay, So she had already found somebody else. You were 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:17.680 oblivious if. 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.840 It wasn't with them anymore. She wanted to come back. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:21.879 Oh, and you said. 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:30.800 I said, I'm a nice guy. I said, well, okay, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.840 but meanwhile, I'm gonna do what I'm going to do. 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.199 So I was, I was playing the guitar, and I 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:37.040 was okay. 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.720 Just to get to the end of her story first, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:44.199 you think I can. Did she move back, did she 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.840 have the baby? How long much longer did you live together? 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:56.440 She did have the baby, and I don't know because 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.679 then I turned into a folks singer. So I first, 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.800 I'm working for the Southern Mississi Southern Pacific, and I'm 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.000 playing and I'm playing on weekends and and and our 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.959 week nights whenever at the folk at the folk clubs 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.119 on hot night and andy knights, you know, And so 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.520 I'm listening to people that are up there, and I say, well, 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.399 if they could do that, I can certainly do that. 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:24.760 So I get up there and sing, and I saw, uh, 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.040 there was a note on the on the bulletin board 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:32.119 said wanted folk singers for Peace to travel through Mexico 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.560 all the way down to Central and South America, with 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.440 bringing nothing with us but living with the people and 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.960 to spread peace and happiness and brotherhood. And I said 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.480 that sounds very interesting, and so I got in touch 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.960 with the guy. He ended up being a Vietnam vet 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:55.720 who was definitely anti war. And this other there was 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.760 a girl named Sandy Rudin, little Jewish girl who knew 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.600 lots lots of folk songs and wanted to do it. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.240 And I did it, and we were the three. And 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.119 I actually talked to Southern Pacific into giving me a 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.600 leave of absence. I was a freight raided analyst by then, 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.280 and I got permission. 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:21.760 Okay, Africa, a little lightning round? Yeah you or did 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.439 you not raise that child? 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:25.000 I didn't. 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:30.120 Okay, what year did all this happen that you went 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.440 took the leave of absence and went on the folks 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:33.120 singing tour? 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:35.840 Probably nineteen sixty two? 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.280 Okay, So this guy had been to Vietnam early when 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:45.360 most people weren't even aware of it. Yeah, well right, okay, 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:48.800 just to go back to something you said earlier. Okay, Now, 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.359 most people today are unfamiliar with Beatniks. They don't even 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:56.359 remember Dobie Gillis and the Energy Krebs. So can you 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.400 give us a few words about Beatnicks? 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.200 Oh, I don't know North Beach, I don't know Allen Ginsberg, 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:12.760 Jack Carrouac. They're playing bongos and the New Lank You know, 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:20.160 everybody's a cat, you know. Can you dig it? Poetry 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.240 recitals in coffeehouses? 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:27.080 To what degree? Was it limited to San Francisco? Was 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:29.560 it a completely you know, it's totally different today with 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:34.920 the Internet, etc. But yeah, what did people in Ohio 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:37.560 know about Beatniks or what was going on in San Francisco? 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:38.400 If anything? 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:44.120 I on the road by Jack Carrouac, I mean, and 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:47.280 I don't know. I just knew they were there, and 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:49.920 I knew there was a lot of jazz being played there, 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:57.800 and you know, and I don't know. Okay, that wasn't 0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:59.600 really the reason I picked it. I picked it because 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:01.160 it was just so beautiful. 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:05.679 Okay, And what exactly was your motivation to buy guitar 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:06.520 and play music. 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:10.639 That was the big mystery. I don't know. I had 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:12.879 always wanted one, and I never did it. And so 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:15.240 I said, well, screw all this stuff that's supposed to 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.280 be happening in my life. I'm going to do what 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:20.679 I want to do, you know. So I went and 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:23.280 bought the guitar and got a bunch of sing out 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:26.040 music and started learning learning how to how to play 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.720 and fingerpick and stuff. And it came pretty naturally to 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.359 me having played, you know, a strange instrument before. 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:35.600 Okay, so now you're on this tour with the woman 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:38.959 in the Vietnam veteran down to Mexico. Tell me about that. 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:44.000 Yeah, okay, we go down to a folk club and 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.679 I don't know. We went and we figured out a 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.439 way to take the train to Mexico ally, get and 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:57.320 go across from Calexico to Mexico ally and take the 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:01.800 third third class train to Mexico City. That's what our 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:08.119 and so we missed. We missed the train. We just 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:09.760 missed it when we got there. So we had to 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.160 stay overnight. You couldn't stay in the station. They wouldn't 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:16.679 stay in the station, and through the miracle of miracles, 0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:20.919 the guard for the station said, you can stay in 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:25.240 the back of my pickup trucks. I had a panel 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:28.640 truck panel truck, and so he let us. He was 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.520 really friendly and you're nice and and this is about 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:37.280 all that we found in Mexico when we were there, 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:42.080 people that were very friendly. So anyway, we eventually again 0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:44.160 on the train the next day, and we have very 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:48.400 little money, and all we're eating is like what what 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:55.200 the vendors are selling at every stop, you know, liketo, potato, tacos, 0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:59.320 you know things. And we and by the time we 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:01.439 got to mexic Go City, I think we had twelve 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:06.000 pesos between three of us. But we managed to get 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.359 to the American Friends Service Committee and told them what 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:11.080 we were doing for peace, and that they gave us 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:13.560 some people that we could talk to at the University 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.560 of Mexico and people at people places we could possibly 0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:21.440 stay and and and we went out and we started 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:27.159 went there, met some people, met met an art student 0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:30.399 who was impressed with what we were doing, and people 0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:35.600 took us seriously and it was kind of amazing. And 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:38.240 Uh offered us that we could stay at his house 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:41.560 and sleep on. We were sleeping on the floor, but 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:44.120 you know, it was some place to stay. And we'd 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.480 go out in the daytime and and and sit up 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:50.199 in applaza somewhere and leave our guitar cases opens and 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:54.280 sing and people actually three paytos, and and you know, 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:57.600 I guess, I guess we were okay, I don't know. 0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:02.320 We found a kosher restaurant when sang in Mexico City 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:07.000 and sang there because she she we knew how aneguila 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:15.960 and that's you know, anyway, that worked too. And and 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:20.040 one day a somebody asked us to come sing. What'd 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:22.679 you come and sing at our meeting? Because they liked 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:24.680 how we sounded. So so okay, we'll come and sing 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.800 at your meeting and go to the meeting. And it's 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:34.120 none of us really spoke Spanish except for restaurants, right, 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:38.879 and so but we could understand uh uh because the 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.600 speaker was was screaming young even period is smooth and 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:47.280 things like that, and so so well we went along 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:49.840 with it, you know, and we got up and we 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:55.960 compared peach Cheeger to peach Cheeger's problem with the government, 0:27:56.040 --> 0:28:00.280 to the muralist Hiciros, who was in jail as a 0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:03.320 political prisoner at the time, and and we're saying, if 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:07.760 I had a hammer, you know, went across fairly well. 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:11.600 And then we went back and back to the other 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:13.520 thing is I smoked pot for the first time in 0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:19.320 Mexico City too. I remember somebody was, okay, keep telling 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.720 the story, which is pretty important in my life. Actually, 0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:27.960 I'm sure it was. Anyway, So so anyway, we go 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:32.520 back to the to the artist's house, wake up in 0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:34.959 the morning to banging on the doors, and it's the 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:39.760 Federal Federal Allays and apparently that was the guy that 0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:46.080 was yelling yanker imperialless was the Cuban ambassador. And they 0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:50.880 drag all of us down down the headquarters, questioned us 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:55.840 all day, put us in a jail overnight, wake us 0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:58.440 up in the morning, put us in the car, and 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:01.160 drive us directly up to an amor An Airlines flight. 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.920 Put us on the plane, and somehow we were in 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:07.680 first class eating mangoes for breakfast. And I don't but 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:11.280 they send us to San Antonio. I guess it was 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:12.680 the first plane out. I don't know. 0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.320 Okay, so now you're in San Antonio. 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:19.760 Now we're in San Antonio and Sandy's we're all furious 0:29:19.800 --> 0:29:22.360 about well, what did we do? We sang a song. 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:25.720 You know this is this is wrong. We got to talk. 0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.080 We have to do something about this. Well, Sandy's college 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:34.880 roommate was Lyndon Johnson's person, personal secretary, personal attorney, I 0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:38.920 mean so, and he's up in Austin. So we hitchhike 0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:44.440 up to Austin and while she's looking for for her 0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:48.840 for her roommate's father, which never really turned turned out 0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:52.640 too much. Michael, Michael Gramleck was this guy's name. And 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.280 we go to the to the student union where the 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:01.600 the Folk Alliance is is having, you know, their their 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:05.640 weekly meeting, and with we sing some songs and trade thing. 0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:08.840 And there's this girl with the autoharp and long hair 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:13.720 and she's singing this beautiful loud voice and she's doing 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:18.280 Irish murder ballads. And we said, but you know, you're 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:22.479 really great. He says. There is a scene that's happened 0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:25.600 up in San Francisco. If you want to come out, man, 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.520 feel free into the friend that was standing there with her, Uh, 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:32.959 feel free to I mean you can stay in our 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:37.000 sofa until you find something to do it. You really 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:42.400 could go somewhere, and and then we then we went 0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:47.160 back to San Francisco, and they did and they showed up. Well. 0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:52.400 The girl was Janis Joplin and the guy was Chet Hilms, 0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:58.600 who opened the Avalon Ballroom, and and Chet used to say, 0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.320 if Freiburg hadn't been deported to Mexico, maybe none of 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:02.200 this would happen. 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:14.160 I don't know. Okay, So now you're back in San Francisco, 0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:17.040 you go back to work for the railroad for. 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:19.600 A short amount of time untill I just couldn't take it. 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:23.440 And I met this we had. I met this girl 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:28.000 named Mikaela, who we seemed to bond and make could 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:32.120 sing very well together. I mean she she was left handed, 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:34.880 so that makes it really good for right handed and 0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:37.280 left handed guitar players to play on one mic, because 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:40.840 you don't get in any others way like Lennon and mcartney, 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:44.400 you know. Anyway, So we had worked up a bunch 0:31:44.400 --> 0:31:47.440 of songs, and we had a bunch of stupid, silly, 0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:49.800 funny pattern that went along with it, and we were 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:52.560 going over with the audiences and in the folk clubs, 0:31:53.280 --> 0:31:57.080 and we managed to little tour and we made it 0:31:57.120 --> 0:32:01.960 down to San Jose and I met a guy that 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:06.480 was playing good banjo and stuff and loved to smoke 0:32:06.520 --> 0:32:11.800 pot named Paul Cantner, and he was just hanging out 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:13.400 at the at the folk Club. He was still going 0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.200 to San Jose State, I think at the time, and 0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:20.720 I and I stayed at his house whenever we played there, 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.800 and we stay up all night smoking and picking. And 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.480 we worked our way down to Los Angeles and to 0:32:26.560 --> 0:32:30.120 Pasadena at the ice House, and we played there, and 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:34.240 the manager decided he would he would manage us and 0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:38.960 find us gigs. And this had to be sixty three 0:32:39.960 --> 0:32:47.160 because I was there when JFK was was it. Yeah, 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:50.360 you always remember that. Of course she remembers everywhere there 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:56.120 were We were right right. But he managed to get 0:32:56.200 --> 0:32:58.360 us out on a tour of various clubs, you know, 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:05.600 st all over Christmas Week that was Lovely Oklahoma, Chicago, Detroit, 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:09.760 and we ended up playing at the bottom Line in 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:14.760 New York City. I think we followed Woody Allen actually, 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:17.600 and we did our little spiel and he had got 0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:22.840 people record company people to come. What was his name, 0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:28.720 I forgetting who is the doors producer? Paul was Paul 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:33.360 Rothchild and he was electure records, and he was there 0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:37.400 and he called. He gave us a phone call, and 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:39.280 we went in, went in to see him in his 0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:43.240 office and he says he told us, he actually told 0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:46.440 us this. He says, let me tell you, folks, songs 0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:48.520 are not going to last much longer than this new 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:52.120 group from England. I said, what group from England? He 0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:55.720 said to Beatles, He says, they're never going to make it. 0:33:56.640 --> 0:33:58.680 He says, but I could get you in one like 0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:01.240 the new Christie minstrels, maybe these big things. Maybe I 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:03.760 could get you guys in one of those. What would 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:06.360 you think of that? And we thought about it and said, well, 0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:09.640 I don't know. Maybe. And I hadn't heard the Beatles yet. 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:16.680 And we're driving down and we're driving down to Washington, 0:34:16.760 --> 0:34:20.600 DC for our last East Coast thing, and the Beatles 0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:23.120 come on. The I Want to Hold Your Hand comes 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:28.440 on and it knocked us out. What was he talking about? 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:33.799 You know? And uh? And that was just funny things 0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:36.600 that happened. And when we got to Denver on our 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:40.440 way home, the Beatles played on Ed Sullivan and we 0:34:40.480 --> 0:34:44.960 saw that and I could see this was done. And 0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:49.279 Michaela and her husband when they got married. He was 0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:54.439 playing bass with us. It's called David Michaela with Bob 0:34:54.520 --> 0:35:02.359 Conker on bass and wit you know, really schlocky, but 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:05.440 they laughed at it. He made the face at the 0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:12.440 right time, they'd laugh. So they when they got married, 0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:17.319 they stopped smoking pot and thought that I should too, 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:23.480 and it wasn't going to happen. Their sense of humor changed. 0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:28.920 So and so, and I got there, and I just 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.800 got back to San Jose and hooked up with Paul 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:34.640 and he had a little like communal thing in the house. 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.759 And I stayed there and we decided we were going 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.600 to go to La and see if we could be 0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:46.520 folked to it. That might be fun. But and so 0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:51.040 we got down there and with the help of the girl, 0:35:51.440 --> 0:35:53.799 the secretary of the man, the guy at the Bob 0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.440 I think his name is Bob Shane, that the manager 0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.920 of the ice house in Pasadena. She was she but 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:05.160 Laurie I think her name is Laurie Spring. And she 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:07.960 helped us find a place to live and actually ended 0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:09.959 up sharing it with us because she needed a place 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:13.239 to And it was in Venice, like four doors from 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:18.880 the beach, which is pretty good but not conduced it 0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:24.080 to and and the whole. I mean that time was 0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:28.000 not the time to be forming a folk group. It 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.200 was a time to be forming a rock and roll band. 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:36.160 And David Crosby I had run into him there and 0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:40.680 in uh at the ice House when his was Les 0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:43.400 Baxter's Balladeers. It was the folk group he was in. 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:49.200 He and his brother were in it. And we just vibe, 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:51.440 says to tout know that we both we know we 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:54.520 must both must have smoked so and so I was 0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:59.120 fast friends with him from then on. So and he 0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:02.120 would come by our place while he's bumming around, and 0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:06.000 he still didn't And Jim Jim, it was Jim McGuinn 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:09.200 who was who was playing Beatles songs in the bar 0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:13.840 outside at the Troubadour all night long and for me 0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:18.160 trying to form a band. And but meanwhile we're living there. 0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:25.040 And Dino Valenti, who was a singer, folks singer that 0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:27.840 I had met in San Francisco when I was singing 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:31.440 with MICHAELA and stuff. And he comes by and he 0:37:31.520 --> 0:37:35.720 has this a lead sheet for this song called Pride 0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:42.000 of Man, which by Hamilton Camp and uh, and he 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:44.640 gives it to me because he doesn't he didn't read 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.880 music and he couldn't figure it out. So anyway, so 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:51.160 that that was just it ended up being quick still 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:57.439 or messenger service first first single, I believe anyway, that's 0:37:57.480 --> 0:37:58.600 jumping around a little bit. 0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:02.799 No, that's perfect. I just got a question. Yeah, did 0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:05.160 you know when he was Jet Powers before he was 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:06.160 Dino Valente? 0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:10.040 No, he was always Dino Valenti. I mean I knew 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:14.120 that he was Jet Power. I learned that from him. 0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:16.560 I mean, you know, he hung up. He was the 0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:19.120 kind of guy. I mean, if you could do something 0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:22.799 for him, he'd be your friend, you know, and so 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:24.920 I could drive him. I just kind of was interested 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:27.839 in him because he was he was such a all 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:30.040 out guy. I mean, you know when he's singing, man, 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:33.239 you're stomping and you know, and I said, well that 0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:37.280 that's a hell of an act. That and I probably 0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:40.040 learned a little bit about singing, and I learned about 0:38:40.040 --> 0:38:42.160 a lot of things not to do, you know. But 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:44.600 he wrote some pretty damn good songs. 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:48.200 Okay, you're living in Venice with Paul Canner and the 0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:52.359 woman Dino Valenti comes through. What's the next step for you? 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:52.880 After that? 0:38:54.960 --> 0:38:59.879 Uh, shortly after that, we figured out this isn't working, yea, 0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:07.359 and moved back to San Jose and with somebody who 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:10.239 had opened up the what was it called the off 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:13.040 Stage was the folk club in San Jose and had 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:15.440 taken it over and wondered if we would help him 0:39:15.480 --> 0:39:19.920 run it, and so, okay, there's something to do. So 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:23.359 we did that, and we stayed, you know, in this 0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.640 in the Santa se area for a while and did 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:34.239 that and tried to make that work, and it ultimately 0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:38.840 went the way of all the folk clubs and and 0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:42.160 so we ended up moving to the city and we 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:46.719 were kind of, I don't know, we might have dealt 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:50.120 a little a little pot just so we had some 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:53.840 to smoke, but it definitely didn't make us any money. 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:59.359 But one day I'm driving in San Francisco. We moved 0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:03.600 into a flat in the Fillmore district, right across from 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:12.279 one of the biggest notorious badass tenement thing as you 0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:17.000 could imagine. And I was driving around and I turned 0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:19.600 made a left turn and I didn't realize it was 0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:22.320 it was after four o'clock and there's no left turns, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.840 and I make the left turn and I get busted. 0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:31.040 The guy looks fine, pot under the seat, and I 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:37.160 go off to jail and a girlfriend I had bailed 0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:41.200 me got my bail out, and and I felt, God, 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:43.000 what am I going to do? Man? I don't want 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:45.319 I don't want to call attention by if I live 0:40:45.400 --> 0:40:49.399 with these people, it might hurt them because I never 0:40:49.600 --> 0:40:54.080 consider getting arrested, right, you know, because I don't know. 0:40:54.320 --> 0:41:00.560 I was naive. I guess was this pot dude? Man, 0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:04.480 you have a good time note anybody you know? Yeah, 0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:11.280 But they were serious about it. So so I thought, well, 0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:16.120 I'll get a straight job, and so I look good, 0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:20.520 maybe they'll be. So I got a job at a 0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:25.440 freight forwarding company and I moved out, and after a 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:29.040 couple of couple of about a month of paychecks, I 0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:34.239 managed to get a place in Merin County, and the 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:39.080 little house in San Quentin Village overlooked the Sandrafell Bridge. 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:42.279 And I go to work and I do my my 0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:47.640 letters and forums and stuff and hating it every second, 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:51.760 and go back across the bridge every night, get stoned 0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:56.520 and get out my twelfth drink and figure out how 0:41:56.520 --> 0:41:59.520 to play all the Beatles songs you know, and sing 0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:01.920 them at the time of my voice to the Sandrafell Bridge. 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:06.040 You know. And I did that for like a month, 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:08.839 two months, you know, And one day there's a knock 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:14.640 on the door and it's a friend, a loose friend 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:18.200 called Otis, and he says, hey, you got any pot, 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.400 And I said, sure, I got some seeds and stems. 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:24.440 Come on in, you know, and I said, here, help yourself. 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.560 And by the way, listen to this, I said. So 0:42:28.239 --> 0:42:30.799 I had an audience for me. So I sang them 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:33.239 all the Beatles songs. And he was just sitting there 0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:36.439 and look at visioning and saying, and he says, he says, 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:38.839 okay about the pot, He said, can I get you? 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:40.879 Can I get ten dollars worth? And I said, look, 0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:43.160 I don't think this is ten dollars worth here, man, 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:46.920 it's just mostly sees. Take it all, forget it, you know. 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:51.560 And he says, no, no, no, no, take five. I said, 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:55.640 well take it anyway. I'll take the five. Okay. He 0:42:55.760 --> 0:43:00.399 leaves and the next day there's a knock on the door. 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:06.279 The next night and it's the state narcotics officer and 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:13.839 the sheriff and the district attorney, and apparently they were 0:43:13.840 --> 0:43:16.520 trying to he told he told them that I was 0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:23.759 his dealer and I had never sold him anything, you know, 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:28.520 And I said, and the ten dollar bill was marked 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.880 five dollar bill was his, so they couldn't get me 0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:39.040 on sales. But they arrested me for possession and they 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:42.759 found seeds in the trunk of my car, which made 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:48.080 them to confiscate my car, took me off to jail, 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:53.000 and I and I I couldn't ask the girlfriend for 0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:58.439 anymore bail. And I, you know, I probably had enough 0:43:58.480 --> 0:44:02.000 money coming to me from my last paycheck from from 0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:05.839 from the place to pay to pay them on. But 0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:09.680 nobody to hunt to, nobody that had any property enough 0:44:09.760 --> 0:44:13.239 that would, you know, to guarantee it. And so I 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:15.600 was stuck there. I was sat in there for thirty 0:44:15.680 --> 0:44:21.799 days and Paul comes and visits me. 0:44:22.080 --> 0:44:24.520 Wait, wait, before Paul visits you, what's it like being 0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:26.480 a nice Jewish boy in jail. 0:44:28.680 --> 0:44:32.120 In Santrafel, California. It was not any real big deal. 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:34.600 I mean, it wasn't nice or anything, you know, And 0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:36.880 it was It wasn't in the beautiful new building that 0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:40.080 they have out there. It was in the old courthouse 0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.000 in the middle of Santafel. And I kind of probably 0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:44.920 went back to the Civil War as far as I 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:48.839 know when it was a built but and and so 0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:51.319 I don't know if they made They took me out 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:54.600 of the general population, made me a trustee. So I 0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:59.080 was sitting. I don't know why they did that, because 0:45:00.239 --> 0:45:02.560 be a trustee, you're supposed to be convicted of something. 0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:07.000 And I hadn't even gone to trial yet, so anybody 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:11.200 but I was there, you know, with I don't know 0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:16.080 the elite people, I guess of the jail. And Paul 0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:19.040 comes to visit me and he notices there's a little 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:22.080 hole in the ancient window and he slides a little 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:30.520 joint through there. And meanwhile I was telling me, me 0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:33.399 and Marty Ballad are getting it. We're going to put 0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:35.719 a band together, which is what all of us were 0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:39.280 thinking about, because we had all bought, you know, electric 0:45:39.320 --> 0:45:42.680 instruments because we knew that was where we had to 0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:49.120 go if we wanted to sing anywhere. And he says, he, well, 0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:52.600 that's that's really great. So what And he says, I 0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:55.400 think we're going to call it Jefferson Airplane. And I 0:45:55.440 --> 0:46:00.480 didn't ask him what that meant, but I said, that's perfect, 0:46:01.520 --> 0:46:03.399 and he said, yeah, I would be able. I hope 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:06.160 you get out of here soon I said, well, I 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:11.560 don't know, I trust I will and uh. And so 0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:15.280 shortly thereafter they I had to go to a court appearance, 0:46:15.320 --> 0:46:18.360 and they decided, well, if you're not going to get bail, 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.040 we don't want to get stuck feeding you for two years. 0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:26.160 So they you don't look dangerous, so they just let 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:28.560 me out of my own recognizance and they i'me out 0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:34.280 in the streets, and some friends had gotten my guitar 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.120 and everything from the house, and my check was there, 0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:45.640 but of course I lost my job, and and so 0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:50.080 I'm there and I MC John Chippolina and Jimmy Murray 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:53.440 and I were already trying kind of had the idea 0:46:53.520 --> 0:47:07.040 that Dina was looking to form a band. I think 0:47:07.080 --> 0:47:11.120 he through Dino could probably it was just loosely. I 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:16.960 had met him and and they and I don't know, 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:19.439 and we were hanging out. I had no place to stay. 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:22.200 I was sleeping on people on girls floors and stuff, 0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:26.719 you know, anywhere I could sleep, and Dino was in jail, 0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:30.200 so we had to do something else. So we said, well, 0:47:30.239 --> 0:47:32.160 let's I guess we'll have our own band, you know. 0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:34.640 And so we were hanging out in the park and 0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:37.239 saucelito and pick and sing, and you know a lot 0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:40.720 of people were doing that. And there was this guitar 0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:44.279 player named Skip came down and and we played with 0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:46.480 him and said this, this could work, This could work 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:51.879 because Jim he fit in pretty well, good looking kid, 0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:54.520 he and he played nice guitar and sang really well. 0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:59.080 So we took Paul up. Marty Ballen was opened had 0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:03.040 opened the Matrix Club in San Francisco where the Jefferson 0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:07.239 Airplane rehearsed, and Paul and Marty said, you know, you 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:10.040 guys come over and practice here sometimes if you get 0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:15.560 something together. And so we went over there with a 0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:21.840 guy named Casey who was a jazz drummer. We just 0:48:21.880 --> 0:48:25.959 got some big sticks. That's the thing that you could play, 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:29.879 you know, rock and roll, And we bought Skip over 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:33.719 and we tried to tried to do some stuff and 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:36.960 it wasn't really working too well. And Marty walked in 0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:42.919 and he said to Skip, do you play drums? He said, 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:45.279 I played snare drum in high school. I played snare 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:48.680 drum in the high school band. And he said, you're 0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:59.319 Jefferson Airplane's new drummer, and he was Skip Spence, Skip spence. Yep, next, 0:48:59.360 --> 0:49:02.880 what next? What's going to happen? Is all of a sudden, 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:06.280 that first bust is going to come up for trial, 0:49:07.880 --> 0:49:11.880 and so I have and I go over there and 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:17.720 they find me guilty and sentenced me to a sixty 0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:21.920 day sentence in San Bruno Prison in San Francisco, and 0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:24.960 I have two weeks to get my stuff together and 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:28.759 turn myself in at police orcer headquarters in San Francisco. 0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:33.960 And so John and Jimmy and I are turning to 0:49:33.960 --> 0:49:36.120 fair what are we going to do? And I said, well, 0:49:36.520 --> 0:49:40.759 it's only sixty days, so I get I'll get out 0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.040 of there probably, and if I behave well, I'll get 0:49:44.040 --> 0:49:51.240 out a little earlier than that. So I'll see you laters. 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:54.839 But meanwhile, I took some acid on the day night 0:49:54.840 --> 0:49:57.400 before I had to turn myself in and met a 0:49:57.400 --> 0:50:02.799 girl named named Tangerine who I'd known, and we had 0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:07.160 a really good time. And as I'm turning myself in, 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:12.239 I'm still stone quite a bit. And the door I 0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:15.000 take to take the elevator up from the ground floor 0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:18.200 to the to the jail floor, and I pushed the 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:22.040 jail button and the door closes, and then it opens 0:50:22.080 --> 0:50:28.000 and nobody's there. I said, I push it again. The 0:50:28.000 --> 0:50:32.880 door closes and then it opens. Nobody's there. What am 0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:35.680 I If it does it again, I'm going to take 0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:38.880 that as an omen and just leave. I push the button, 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:46.960 it closes and it goes up. And so that's and 0:50:47.400 --> 0:50:53.200 on on the TVs in the jail there there's the 0:50:53.280 --> 0:51:02.200 Turtles playing Ellinorgy. You're looking swell. So I don't know 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:05.920 as little as I didn't know that drummer was getting anyway, 0:51:07.360 --> 0:51:12.399 So off the sand, off to San Bruno, and they 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:14.160 want me to cut my hair or else I'll have 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:18.240 to stay with the gay guys. And I said, well, 0:51:20.280 --> 0:51:22.200 probably I should have stayed with the gay guys. But 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:26.920 I cut my hair, and and somehow, because I seemed 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:30.560 kind of harmless, they made me a trustee again and 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:35.400 I could I could lock myself and when they're in 0:51:35.400 --> 0:51:39.160 a free time, then I had I had a cell 0:51:39.280 --> 0:51:41.640 that look look was right, so you could see the 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:45.080 TV set, the one TV set for everybody right was there. 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:50.960 And so but they locked you in to that, I said, 0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:54.319 well that looked like a plus to me, to be 0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:57.760 locked in, not being able to talk, you know, in 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:03.360 interact with anybody else, and so I did that. And 0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:09.880 uh and in forty five days I got out and 0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:14.080 they had took me back, raced me at at city Hall. 0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:19.719 Had to go up and see my my uh, probation guy, 0:52:21.320 --> 0:52:23.960 and but he was not he was out to lunch. 0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:26.480 So I had had to come back in two hours. 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:32.080 So John Chippolina and Jimmy Murray were picking me up, 0:52:32.760 --> 0:52:37.360 you know, and and uh, and they told me that 0:52:37.440 --> 0:52:41.640 they found two They found two guys from merced Or 0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.560 they thought he were for mer said or, I don't know, 0:52:44.640 --> 0:52:50.680 modesto and a drummer and another guitar player. And and 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:53.160 I think that we could have a band with them, 0:52:53.280 --> 0:52:57.279 and I said great. And so we all smoked a bunch. 0:52:57.680 --> 0:53:01.200 Finally got to smoke a little pot. Well, yeah, that 0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:04.319 was what that was what I did every day and 0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:08.920 not in jail though, But and uh, so I go 0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:13.400 up and he says, he says, you know, the probation 0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:17.080 officer says, I know there's nothing wrong with pot. I 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:19.759 know it should be legal, but it isn't. So I 0:53:19.840 --> 0:53:24.040 wanted you to understand, to take it more seriously. So 0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:27.360 I gave you this little sentence so you so you'd understand. 0:53:27.440 --> 0:53:30.879 So so just stay away from that stuff. I said, 0:53:30.880 --> 0:53:33.279 oh yeah, I'll never get to touch a stone out 0:53:33.320 --> 0:53:37.640 of my mind. But and so I go back down 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:42.359 and it's Gary Duncan and Greg Alamore, the other guys 0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:50.680 from for Quicksellar Messenger Service. We start practicing and the 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:54.840 basement of some a girl, a girl's house named after 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:58.799 her name was Chris Brooks, and so she thought she'd 0:53:58.840 --> 0:54:07.160 be our manager or whatever, and and that's and so 0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:10.880 we get it together and we come up with the 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:17.600 Quicksilver Messenger Service thing because John Okay, Gary Duncan, and 0:54:17.640 --> 0:54:22.439 Gregor mare Elmore or virgos born on the seventh of September, 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:27.439 John Chipley and I were virgos born on the same day, 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:32.920 twenty fourth of August. And Jimmy Murray, who he didn't 0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:35.520 really last all the way to Soil. We made the records, 0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:40.000 but there's too much work for him. I think he 0:54:42.600 --> 0:54:45.720 was a Gemini, and we all had the ruling planet 0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:49.680 of Mercury, which is quicksilver, and he's the mess So 0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:52.959 we all came and it was me or Murray something 0:54:52.960 --> 0:54:56.480 I came Quicksilver Messenger Service. That seems ridiculous, but it 0:54:56.600 --> 0:54:59.359 sounded good to us. So there we are. 0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:03.520 Okay, you got the band together, when do you start 0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:05.920 playing out? How does it end up that you end 0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:07.359 up getting a record deal. 0:55:09.160 --> 0:55:12.439 It took us a long time, a really long time, 0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:16.960 but the committee gave us our first gig. You remember 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:22.360 the company, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Howard Hessemen. Yeah, well I 0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:24.719 knew Howard. I was an old buddy from when he 0:55:24.760 --> 0:55:26.560 was a folks when I was a folcusinger. I used 0:55:26.560 --> 0:55:29.560 to sleep on his floor every now, you know. And 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:33.040 he was a bartender at at the at the coffee 0:55:33.040 --> 0:55:41.640 gallery for his day gig. And uh so anyway, uh so, 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:44.480 they I think they gave us one hundred bucks to 0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:48.880 come play their Christmas party and that was fairly successful. 0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:52.240 And they said, we wondered if we'd record a version 0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:55.759 of the Star Spangled Banner. And we found somebody and 0:55:56.080 --> 0:56:01.960 we did that, and we moved to Marine County somehow 0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:08.279 with in an old shack in Larkspur. No longer there. 0:56:08.320 --> 0:56:11.799 It's all built up into nice things now. And we 0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:17.160 just played all day and night, smoked and played, smoked 0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:23.000 and played, you know, and had some some hippie hippie 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:28.880 managers that brought us lots of health food. You know, 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:36.960 all in one cereal and lots of you know, organic honey, 0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:41.839 and we had food to eat and and we we got, 0:56:42.320 --> 0:56:46.239 we got. We started getting gigs at the Avalon and 0:56:47.840 --> 0:56:51.839 I met my first my next wife there, which was 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:57.520 Julia Dreyer, who was known as Girl, and she was 0:56:57.560 --> 0:57:03.000 hanging with us too. And there's lots of stories. 0:57:03.520 --> 0:57:06.320 Okay, you're living in Larkspur. 0:57:07.000 --> 0:57:08.240 It's gonna get too detailed. 0:57:08.760 --> 0:57:11.239 The hippies are giving you, you know food, What are 0:57:11.239 --> 0:57:12.839 you living on? You know, you don't know. You don't 0:57:12.880 --> 0:57:14.520 have a regular job, no straight job. 0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:19.400 We got occasional gigs and people would help us. 0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:23.160 I don't know what was going through your mind. 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:27.240 That this was really fun when we played, you know, 0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.600 and they didn't have a I had never played bass before, 0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:34.400 but somebody had to and so since I had played 0:57:34.440 --> 0:57:37.800 twelve string, I don't know what that had to do 0:57:37.880 --> 0:57:42.240 with it, but I played bass, and so I was 0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:45.840 figuring that out and we played. We learned a bunch 0:57:45.840 --> 0:57:49.000 of songs, folks songs, but Pride to Man among them, 0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:51.800 and it all sounded good. We started playing at the 0:57:51.800 --> 0:57:56.120 fillmore in the Avalon, and we got a pretty good following. 0:57:56.240 --> 0:57:59.160 Okay, a little bit slower. You remember the opening in 0:57:59.200 --> 0:58:01.880 the film, wore the opening of the Avalon and what 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:02.520 that was like? 0:58:05.040 --> 0:58:06.160 Not particularly No. 0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:08.760 Okay, Then let me ask you another one. How about 0:58:08.840 --> 0:58:13.240 Ken Keezy the Mary Prankster's Acid. Was that something that 0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:14.120 was on your radar? 0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:19.240 Oh yeah, oh yeah, we were well that had to 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:22.200 be on everybody's radar if you were anywhere in San Francisco. 0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:25.000 Sure I knew knew all of those guys. I mean 0:58:25.040 --> 0:58:29.160 we were all buddy, I mean we all came to 0:58:29.200 --> 0:58:32.800 see each other play The Grateful Dead and Greick Silver 0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:36.840 and Airplane and a Big Brother and Holding Company where 0:58:36.840 --> 0:58:41.120 they're there, Hello Janis again, thank you? Okay. 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:45.840 First band to have a hit out of the San 0:58:45.840 --> 0:58:51.240 Francisco scene was the Jefferson Airplane in sixty seven. So 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:54.280 did you feel left downery feel if they can make it? 0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:55.080 We can make it? 0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:03.120 But everybody thought they could make it. But I don't know. 0:59:04.280 --> 0:59:07.800 We're playing and we have a We have a manager 0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:19.000 who was an astrologer. His name was Amber Ambrose Hollingsworth. 0:59:20.120 --> 0:59:23.720 And as soon as he became our manager, he somehow 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:26.880 managed to find a Volkswagen convertible and all of a 0:59:26.920 --> 0:59:29.480 sudden he was wearing the latest clothes from you know, 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:37.840 from the Los Angeles hippies were wearing and we to 0:59:37.960 --> 0:59:42.880 call behind back. We were calling Ambrose Hollywood, you know. 0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:49.840 But that was too bad. But unfortunately he got into 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:53.960 this accident that left him paralyzed, driving driving over the 0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:57.200 driving over the bridge. And a and a friend of 0:59:57.640 --> 1:00:02.520 and a friend of a guy named Ron Polti who 1:00:02.600 --> 1:00:06.960 is the friend friend of Nick Gravinidis who played with uh, 1:00:08.080 --> 1:00:12.720 Mike Bloomfield and the Electric Flag. Okay, he's from the 1:00:12.800 --> 1:00:17.640 Chicago the Chicago guys. He did. He decides he'd like 1:00:17.720 --> 1:00:20.160 to be our manager, and they said, well, what do 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:22.840 you need? He said, I think at that point we 1:00:22.840 --> 1:00:24.520 were living in a house that was right in the 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:26.840 middle of Mill Valley, which was right out in the 1:00:26.880 --> 1:00:31.720 open and terrible place to try to rehearse or anything. 1:00:32.320 --> 1:00:34.320 And so we want to have a hot we want 1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:36.760 to be on a farm with with the barn we 1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:40.040 can practice in. And in a week he had us 1:00:40.080 --> 1:00:44.720 in a barn we could practice it in Olema, which 1:00:44.760 --> 1:00:48.960 is out of near Point Ray Station. And the Grateful 1:00:49.000 --> 1:00:54.680 Dead had had what used to be a children's summer 1:00:54.760 --> 1:00:58.160 camp in Lagunitas, not you know, down the road from 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:00.920 where we were, and they moved in there for the 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:06.640 summer and they were practicing there. And so one day 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:11.440 we were cleaning some pot in a big bowl, and 1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:13.120 all of a sudden we hear a bunch of whooping 1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:17.280 outside and it's grateful dead dressed like Indians. It's because 1:01:17.320 --> 1:01:19.320 we were the cowboys living on the ranch and they 1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:25.440 the war Path come in and attack us, and so 1:01:25.480 --> 1:01:29.120 we all thought that was really funny, and get around 1:01:29.160 --> 1:01:34.600 and everybody gets gets stoned, and yaki aka yaka, that's funny, okay. 1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:38.200 And then they go home. And meanwhile Dino was there. 1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:42.120 He wasn't in the band, but he's hung with us 1:01:42.240 --> 1:01:45.600 a bunch, and he said, you know what we should do. 1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:52.240 We should practice up Elijah was a wooden Indian and 1:01:52.320 --> 1:01:56.040 sing this song. And then when they're playing at the 1:01:56.040 --> 1:02:01.240 fillmore dress up in cowboy things with bandanas over our 1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:04.640 faces and guns and tie them to their amps in 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:09.040 Saint Elijah was a wooden Indian. And everybody thought that's 1:02:09.040 --> 1:02:12.440 a wonderful idea. I don't know why they thought that, 1:02:12.680 --> 1:02:21.080 but it ended up getting us busted again, because you know, 1:02:21.720 --> 1:02:26.120 I mean, John Chippolina had ancient some ancient rifles that 1:02:26.200 --> 1:02:28.480 were most of them were let it up, but they 1:02:28.480 --> 1:02:31.600 were just collectors items, you know. He liked old things 1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:36.040 and so that was part of it. So we had 1:02:36.080 --> 1:02:42.320 a panel truck that was our equipment truck and quotes, 1:02:44.120 --> 1:02:48.080 and so we dragged off. We get to to the 1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:55.160 fillmore and the airplane's going over and so Grateful Dead 1:02:55.200 --> 1:02:59.800 aren't quite on yet and so we had to say, okay. 1:02:59.840 --> 1:03:01.680 So we throw all the stuff in the back of 1:03:01.680 --> 1:03:05.040 the truck and there's smoke, a few joints, and all 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:07.720 of a sudden there's door open. Front door opens it 1:03:08.040 --> 1:03:14.160 and there's a revolver pointing it and we thought it 1:03:14.240 --> 1:03:17.240 was probably one of the other guys with the phony gun. 1:03:17.680 --> 1:03:20.160 Look at no, it's real and it was the police. 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:26.360 Uh oh. And they grabbed me and girl and Jimmy 1:03:26.400 --> 1:03:28.240 Murray out of the back that we were the eyes 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:31.160 that were there. Throw us in the back of the policeman. Well, 1:03:31.240 --> 1:03:34.240 they're going to search the truck. And I had some 1:03:34.320 --> 1:03:40.680 joints in my pocket, but Jimmy had stashed it under 1:03:40.960 --> 1:03:43.600 his gig stuff under something and then the truck, which 1:03:43.600 --> 1:03:46.920 is the wrong thing to do, but he did. And 1:03:46.920 --> 1:03:48.880 he said they're going to find joints in there, man, 1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:51.280 and they're going to find it. And I said, well, well, 1:03:51.360 --> 1:03:53.440 everybody's got to help me. We got to eat all 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:56.880 we got to eat all the spots. So we eat 1:03:56.920 --> 1:04:00.120 all the pot because they had they had Jimmy Or 1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:02.600 he was six foot four, so they handcuffed him, but 1:04:03.080 --> 1:04:05.760 girl and me they didn't handcuff because we were they 1:04:05.800 --> 1:04:08.880 didn'tren't worry too much about us, and so we did that. 1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:13.040 And then they ship us off the tail overnight and 1:04:13.080 --> 1:04:18.040 we're out first thing in the morning, and uh and 1:04:18.120 --> 1:04:23.080 they are they arrest once again. They found pot in 1:04:23.120 --> 1:04:28.840 this in this vehicle. They're gonna confiscate it and sell it. 1:04:31.280 --> 1:04:33.160 And the guy that owned the owned the owned the 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:36.760 van said, if they try to toe that, I never 1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:39.560 I never really fastened the drive shaft in, so it's 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:45.120 going to fall out. And so I don't think they're 1:04:45.160 --> 1:04:48.160 never going to be able to sell it. And so okay, 1:04:48.960 --> 1:04:53.360 And so meanwhile there's this lawyer named Brian Rohan. I 1:04:53.360 --> 1:04:54.320 don't know if you've come across. 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.920 I used to email from him. Yeah before he passed away, yep, yeah, 1:04:58.080 --> 1:04:58.840 yeah yeah. 1:04:58.720 --> 1:05:02.600 And uh so he decided he represented us and got 1:05:02.680 --> 1:05:06.440 us out immediately immediately and decided they were going to 1:05:06.520 --> 1:05:08.160 make an example of it, and they were going to 1:05:08.240 --> 1:05:12.280 try the truck and every vehicle that came across their desk. 1:05:12.320 --> 1:05:14.640 They were going to make them go to you know, 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:16.600 they're going to fight it as long as they could 1:05:16.680 --> 1:05:19.920 and make it cost so much money for them for 1:05:20.000 --> 1:05:23.000 them to do that they'd stop it. And at worked 1:05:23.000 --> 1:05:28.720 they did stop confiscating us. So anyway, so one day 1:05:28.720 --> 1:05:31.760 we went went out went to the to the to 1:05:31.800 --> 1:05:37.000 the the auction for the cars for the state at 1:05:37.000 --> 1:05:40.840 Saint Quentin, actually right outside Saint Quentin, and there was 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:44.120 there was the van with the drive shaft in the back, 1:05:45.240 --> 1:05:49.880 and we bought back for fifty bucks and a guy 1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:53.520 put the drive shaft back in drove away. So anyway, 1:05:55.240 --> 1:05:58.439 Little Tails, I'm remembering much too much. 1:05:58.760 --> 1:06:01.320 No no, no, no, no, no, it's all good. This is cold. 1:06:12.400 --> 1:06:15.560 How does the band ultimately get a record deal with Capitol? 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:19.120 I think the president came by and saw us one 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:25.560 night when we played at a fair gig, and he 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:29.560 liked us. But it was just like nineteen six, I 1:06:29.560 --> 1:06:31.640 mean we were really late. I mean this was sixty 1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:35.080 seven and we still hadn't signed you know, right, And 1:06:36.720 --> 1:06:41.200 he said, we'll think about it, And meanwhile, Monterey Pop 1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:44.320 is happening, and we get invited to it, even though 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:48.200 we had didn't have any record or anything. But so 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:51.760 far as San Francisco was concerned, I mean, people would 1:06:51.760 --> 1:06:53.480 come to see us just as much as they'd go 1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:56.479 see the Big Brother or Jefferson Airplane or the Dead 1:06:56.560 --> 1:07:00.000 or anything, because they all liked us as much as anything, 1:07:00.160 --> 1:07:01.600 you know what I mean, that was all equal in 1:07:01.640 --> 1:07:04.240 San Francisco. But go out in the road, well that 1:07:04.320 --> 1:07:06.760 was another thing. So we'd have to have a record 1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:09.960 for that. So we realized we better do this sometime 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:15.400 and so but meanwhile we did get to go to Monterey. 1:07:16.040 --> 1:07:20.919 That was probably the best festival that ever happened. I think, 1:07:21.920 --> 1:07:23.040 best one I ever saw. 1:07:25.360 --> 1:07:28.000 Okay, and then how do you end up getting signed 1:07:28.000 --> 1:07:29.280 and making the first album? 1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:31.760 Then he went for it and gave us a pretty 1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:35.680 good deal. Apparently it was not smooth sailing, of course, 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:40.800 because it was Quicksilver Messengers, But we went down and 1:07:42.720 --> 1:07:45.720 recorded with the same Nick Nick Nick Gravin. I just 1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:49.480 wanted to do it. And Harvey Brooks, who was the 1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:55.400 bass player, well really famous bass player, played on all 1:07:55.440 --> 1:07:56.600 the Bob del and stuff, and he. 1:07:56.640 --> 1:08:00.160 Played in al Cooper in Super Session Harvey's. 1:07:59.720 --> 1:08:02.760 Two and he was it was in the Electric Flag. 1:08:03.640 --> 1:08:06.400 Was really close to our managers, you know. I think 1:08:06.440 --> 1:08:09.480 he gave him the flag that had an electric thing, 1:08:09.480 --> 1:08:14.320 and that was the elect caused the name to happen, 1:08:15.360 --> 1:08:19.040 the Electric Flag. Okay, So anyway, where was I? Okay? 1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:21.400 So he and Harvey Brooks are trying to do it, 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:24.080 get us do it, and we had this long song 1:08:24.120 --> 1:08:28.400 that we wanted to get on the albums called the Fool. 1:08:30.200 --> 1:08:34.040 And I had written the words when I apparently when 1:08:34.080 --> 1:08:36.840 I was high on acid, because when I woke up 1:08:36.880 --> 1:08:39.639 in the morning that after the acid chip, I looked 1:08:39.640 --> 1:08:42.960 at my typewriter and there were the words. I must 1:08:43.000 --> 1:08:47.080 have typed it out, and I said, this sounded like me, So, 1:08:47.240 --> 1:08:51.639 you know, very very hippish, very very very one world, 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:56.000 you know. And we had the song, this bunch of 1:08:56.120 --> 1:08:59.240 changes that we were turning into a very big thing, 1:08:59.240 --> 1:09:00.960 and when we played it, it got a lot of 1:09:01.640 --> 1:09:04.720 a lot of very good reactions. So we tried to 1:09:04.760 --> 1:09:09.600 do that and it went pretty good, except for the 1:09:09.680 --> 1:09:13.000 long one. Because Gary decided he had been We've been 1:09:13.000 --> 1:09:15.479 watching how the Beatles did things one track at a time, 1:09:15.720 --> 1:09:17.360 and he wanted to do it that way, and it 1:09:18.680 --> 1:09:22.880 just when we heard the final result, we said no, 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:26.479 we got to do it live, play it all at once, 1:09:26.800 --> 1:09:29.960 and we had complete commit The contract was good because 1:09:29.960 --> 1:09:32.160 we could do whatever we really wanted to do, so 1:09:32.200 --> 1:09:34.400 we could we didn't have to put it out until 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:38.200 we were done with it. But Harvey said, I've spent 1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:40.680 enough time on this. I have other things I have 1:09:40.760 --> 1:09:45.120 to do, so he left it with Nick and I 1:09:45.160 --> 1:09:49.880 think there was a jazz critic named Pete Welding who 1:09:50.000 --> 1:09:54.440 ended up being the nominal co producer with Nick Revenitis. 1:09:55.040 --> 1:09:57.679 But anyway, so we went back and we actually rehearsed 1:09:57.680 --> 1:10:01.360 it in the studio a couple of months that figured 1:10:01.360 --> 1:10:05.200 out how we really wanted to do it, and played 1:10:05.240 --> 1:10:07.800 it on the road a bit, and then went back 1:10:08.120 --> 1:10:11.360 and finished the record and it finally came out in 1:10:11.520 --> 1:10:13.840 sixty eight, which is really late. 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:20.400 Okay, so the record gets good reviews, what's your experience 1:10:20.479 --> 1:10:23.960 being in the band? Does it? Does sales meet your expectation? 1:10:24.160 --> 1:10:27.639 Or you're disappointed there's not a hit? What happens there? 1:10:28.000 --> 1:10:31.960 Yeah, there wasn't. Actually the only actual hit was was 1:10:32.000 --> 1:10:35.240 the full really, but it was too long to be 1:10:35.400 --> 1:10:38.040 to be really get played on the radio, so and 1:10:38.080 --> 1:10:40.400 it couldn't have been and it couldn't be edited down 1:10:40.439 --> 1:10:43.479 to anything because it wasn't a pop song. It was 1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:49.439 this big production. And anyway, Gary Duncan was when we 1:10:49.479 --> 1:10:54.479 went out on the road, he started he started shooting methodrym, 1:10:56.760 --> 1:11:04.680 which was disastrous. He's got completely completely paranoid, you know, 1:11:04.760 --> 1:11:09.160 and everybody was against him and played okay, played too 1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:13.280 many notes, but you know, uh, and he ended up 1:11:13.360 --> 1:11:18.360 quitting the band right after we had recorded live in 1:11:19.439 --> 1:11:22.479 at the Fillmore East and the Fillmore West. What was 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:24.160 going to be our We were going to record a 1:11:24.200 --> 1:11:27.000 live album for the next thing, and he decides he's 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:31.840 gonna he's gonna quit, and so well we decided, well 1:11:31.880 --> 1:11:34.120 we want to record one last thing. So we had 1:11:34.120 --> 1:11:39.600 one last session and we go into the studio. We 1:11:39.720 --> 1:11:43.440 played our song that turned out to be called Calvary. 1:11:43.920 --> 1:11:46.880 But the guy had an idea for the for the title, 1:11:48.920 --> 1:11:51.960 and he was watching us there. He was going to 1:11:52.080 --> 1:11:56.040 make the album cover and he said, well, see that, 1:11:56.360 --> 1:11:59.960 nobody's talking to each other and it's all and Duncan's 1:12:00.640 --> 1:12:03.840 fucked up and you know, and he said, wow, it 1:12:03.840 --> 1:12:08.880 looks like Happy Trails to me, and uh, oh yeah, 1:12:08.880 --> 1:12:12.760 a good name for the album. Okay, I you know, 1:12:12.880 --> 1:12:16.799 I refuse to get negative because he's gonna leave. Something's 1:12:16.800 --> 1:12:19.639 going to happen. I don't know. He shouldn't leave because 1:12:20.520 --> 1:12:23.160 he was he was a great rhythm guitar player and 1:12:23.200 --> 1:12:25.360 a great and a great lead guitar player too, and 1:12:25.400 --> 1:12:28.840 he was really good and and he was kind of 1:12:28.840 --> 1:12:30.519 like the machine of the band. But we're going to 1:12:30.560 --> 1:12:33.720 have to do something, and so he leaves, and so 1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:36.479 it was left for us to finish the album without him, 1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:45.200 and so we did. We finished the Calvary song and 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:49.479 uh recorded Happy Trails with Greg Ellenmore singing the only 1:12:49.720 --> 1:12:53.080 only song he's ever sung just as a joke at 1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:57.559 the end, and uh, and we end up with the 1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:01.720 who Do You Love Sweet? On the first side and 1:13:02.120 --> 1:13:06.360 with the combination of the beginning was from the New 1:13:06.439 --> 1:13:14.040 York Fillmore, the middle part was from San Francisco Fillmore, 1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:16.560 where the whole audience in the band and everybody and 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:22.240 anywhere within blocks was all stoned on acid. And the 1:13:22.720 --> 1:13:25.719 end I believe we probably might have used the Fillmore East, 1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:29.280 but maybe not maybe maybe at all. At the mid 1:13:29.320 --> 1:13:32.599 midway part has shifted to San Francisco, and it took 1:13:32.680 --> 1:13:35.559 up the whole first side, and it was the biggest 1:13:35.560 --> 1:13:36.599 selling record you made. 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:42.519 How on the third album does Dino Valente come in 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:44.320 and Nicky Hopkins. 1:13:45.520 --> 1:13:48.280 Well it was Dino didn't come in the third album 1:13:48.439 --> 1:13:51.479 was the fourth album? Okay, Nicki came in on the 1:13:51.520 --> 1:13:54.280 third right, Well, they quit on New York. They played 1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:56.840 their last gig on Gary played his last gig on 1:13:56.920 --> 1:13:59.960 New Year's Eve and ended up coming back the next 1:14:00.040 --> 1:14:05.240 New Year's Eve. So we had a year. I don't Nicki. 1:14:05.360 --> 1:14:08.680 Nicki was in town. I think he'd played with on 1:14:08.760 --> 1:14:12.000 Steve Miller's album. Then he played on Jefferson Airplanes album 1:14:12.640 --> 1:14:14.800 and we had one we were coming up next at 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:18.400 Wally Hyder's. And he had a very an affinity with 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:21.160 John Chippelina. He really they were really hit it off. 1:14:21.920 --> 1:14:25.480 They were if you want to go to stop astrologically, 1:14:26.000 --> 1:14:28.639 he was. He was the obsolete opposite of me and John. 1:14:28.680 --> 1:14:31.479 He was born on February twenty fourth, which is exactly 1:14:31.560 --> 1:14:36.320 six months apart. So anyway, they were they were very 1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:41.280 much alike. Hell, they both collected things and I don't 1:14:41.320 --> 1:14:46.120 know that. They just they became. So he decided he 1:14:46.360 --> 1:14:50.080 joined Quicksilver. So we made this album with NICKI. 1:14:52.479 --> 1:14:54.400 How did you feel about him joining? How did you 1:14:54.439 --> 1:14:55.880 feel about the album. 1:14:56.200 --> 1:15:00.560 Got him joining? Yeah, he saved us, he said, I 1:15:02.320 --> 1:15:05.360 never I never got very happy about the songs I 1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:09.600 sang on that album. But there there are people that 1:15:09.720 --> 1:15:15.799 love them. But I don't quite understand. But but everybody 1:15:15.840 --> 1:15:18.840 tells it. It's everybody. Every singer is his own worst, 1:15:19.000 --> 1:15:24.839 worse critic, you know. So I'll never be satisfied with anything. 1:15:24.960 --> 1:15:29.760 So okay, the next album, Dino comes in, how does 1:15:29.800 --> 1:15:31.760 he get into the band? 1:15:32.240 --> 1:15:35.240 Came back the next next year, but I wanted to 1:15:35.240 --> 1:15:39.439 get Gary back in the band, and Dino came with him. Well, 1:15:39.560 --> 1:15:42.599 he said, I know that's going to be trouble because 1:15:43.920 --> 1:15:47.400 Dino has to run things. I mean, he doesn't know 1:15:47.479 --> 1:15:52.880 anything else. He can't cooperate with anybody. So I knew 1:15:52.920 --> 1:15:56.920 him by then and said, well, oh well, let's see 1:15:56.920 --> 1:16:01.599 what happens. So the first thing was that we're gonna 1:16:01.680 --> 1:16:05.600 We're gonna record an album in Hawaii. That sounded like 1:16:05.640 --> 1:16:09.559 a wonderful thing to do because he wanted to go 1:16:09.600 --> 1:16:14.120 to Hawaii. I guess, I don't know. There was no 1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:16.960 real studio that we could record them and over there. 1:16:17.160 --> 1:16:19.720 So we're going to build it. And Capitol had given 1:16:19.800 --> 1:16:26.600 us an eight track to work with, and so the 1:16:26.680 --> 1:16:30.439 plan was made. I wasn't very big part of that, 1:16:31.120 --> 1:16:33.920 but the plan was made. There was this old boy 1:16:33.960 --> 1:16:38.480 scout ranch way out in the out Holai Eva on Oahu, 1:16:40.520 --> 1:16:43.320 out for a bunch of cane fields, and it was 1:16:43.320 --> 1:16:46.360 a boy scout ranch and they had a big, nice, 1:16:46.400 --> 1:16:52.920 big room and enough places for everybody to stay, and 1:16:52.960 --> 1:16:57.200 it was pretty cheap. It only had one drawback. It 1:16:57.240 --> 1:17:03.680 didn't have electricity, but we say, oh well we'll get it. 1:17:03.840 --> 1:17:08.000 We'll get a generator. You know, no problem, they have generators. 1:17:08.200 --> 1:17:11.000 And so we get we get over there, everybody comes 1:17:11.040 --> 1:17:14.240 over and every every and Dino is really happy. You know, 1:17:14.479 --> 1:17:16.200 he's going to live it up. Man. We're in a 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:19.519 big time band, man, you know. And so everybody gets 1:17:19.520 --> 1:17:25.280 a convertible and and we get there and they cannot 1:17:26.600 --> 1:17:29.600 get a good ground on that, on that anywhere on 1:17:29.640 --> 1:17:33.479 the property they keep there. They couldn't get the ground. 1:17:33.520 --> 1:17:36.960 So you record something and going that'd be a huge 1:17:37.000 --> 1:17:41.040 buzz on everything. And they couldn't get it ground It 1:17:41.040 --> 1:17:43.160 took him two weeks to get it grounded. Right. So 1:17:43.200 --> 1:17:47.800 we're sitting there renting cars, and we sit there and 1:17:47.840 --> 1:17:53.679 waste two weeks. We have a rented beautiful grand piano, 1:17:53.800 --> 1:17:55.920 and you know, and what was going to be the 1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:59.200 it was it was really the kind of the living area, 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:01.439 you know, in the living room area, and we built, 1:18:01.840 --> 1:18:05.280 we had a we had a little little control room, 1:18:05.360 --> 1:18:08.320 and it was it would work fine. And eventually it 1:18:08.360 --> 1:18:14.120 did work okay, And but it was crazy Dena wouldn't 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:19.320 let any wives go over there. That he made the rules. See, 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:22.760 no wives were allowed to go with us. 1:18:23.040 --> 1:18:26.280 So that album is known for fresh air. Have another 1:18:26.400 --> 1:18:32.120 hit of fresh Air? Yeah, you know it ends up 1:18:32.120 --> 1:18:34.160 being a different band now with Dino in it. 1:18:35.000 --> 1:18:39.519 Yes it does. And I kind of knew that, but 1:18:41.320 --> 1:18:42.760 I don't know. I didn't. I didn't want to be 1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:49.519 in that band without Gary. And then, as it turns out, 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:55.720 before we left Hawaii, Ron Poulte our manager, Quiz, Tohn 1:18:55.760 --> 1:19:02.040 Ceppelina Quiz and Nicki Quitz, and I say, well, if 1:19:02.080 --> 1:19:05.439 I quit, there won't be any I don't want to be, 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:08.280 you know, And so I say I'll stick around for 1:19:08.320 --> 1:19:13.559 a year. If nothing happens, I'm out of here. I mean, 1:19:13.560 --> 1:19:21.719 if I'm not doing something, you know, and nothing happened. 1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:25.519 I mean we we got another album probably out of 1:19:25.560 --> 1:19:28.400 some of the stuff that the next one that came out, 1:19:30.800 --> 1:19:32.760 I think it had what About Me on it, right, 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:35.160 which was which was a pretty good song. I like 1:19:35.280 --> 1:19:37.000 that song. I like to sing that song. That's a 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:42.000 good song. But I could see nothing was happening anyway. 1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:46.320 I ended up Mike, excuse another pot bust is coming up. 1:19:46.560 --> 1:19:52.960 So they always ends up good though, you know, first 1:19:52.960 --> 1:19:55.080 one ended up I had, I got the band. 1:19:56.680 --> 1:19:58.920 Yeah, what happened with the second boss? 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:04.800 It was dismissed Byron Rohan got it dismissed. So I 1:20:05.120 --> 1:20:07.960 never but you know, it got me out of the 1:20:08.040 --> 1:20:11.680 job where I was wasting my time. Really, you know, 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:15.800 it wasn't going to help me get anywhere or do 1:20:15.880 --> 1:20:20.920 anything that I could do. I could end up being 1:20:20.960 --> 1:20:23.680 a clerk for the rest of my life. But I 1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:26.720 really wanted to sing and play, you know. So it 1:20:26.800 --> 1:20:32.320 put me into Quicksilver. Actually, and and this next one 1:20:32.600 --> 1:20:34.280 handily gets me out of Quicksilver. 1:20:43.160 --> 1:20:46.200 So now you don't have a band. What's the plan? 1:20:49.000 --> 1:20:52.960 Well, that was an entertaining bus too, but that gets 1:20:53.000 --> 1:20:58.240 boring talking about bus, so let's get that. Uh. First 1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:00.240 thing I did was I got out my base wanted 1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:02.599 to play a little bit. So there's this band called 1:21:02.640 --> 1:21:06.040 the Asa Cups that a girl, all girl band, and 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:09.160 they had another and they had formed a different thing, 1:21:09.200 --> 1:21:11.160 and they wanted to wonder if I'd played bass because 1:21:11.160 --> 1:21:14.000 their bass player had stopped them. So I just did 1:21:14.040 --> 1:21:18.080 it for a couple of few months, and I started 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:21.040 hanging out with Mickey Hart from the From the Dead. 1:21:21.080 --> 1:21:24.800 He hadn't ranch in Nevado, that's you know, you know, 1:21:24.840 --> 1:21:28.519 a couple of miles away from me, and I started 1:21:28.520 --> 1:21:31.839 hanging with him. He was making his his first solo album, 1:21:32.720 --> 1:21:34.519 and so I hung with him and sang a bunch 1:21:34.560 --> 1:21:41.439 of songs and helped helped engineer. Started thinking of me 1:21:41.520 --> 1:21:44.479 being an engineer, but I did engineer whole tower of 1:21:44.560 --> 1:21:49.000 power horn session. So so you know, I was just 1:21:49.479 --> 1:21:52.160 started hanging with him and you know, and singing, singing 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:54.759 a bunch of the songs on his album and playing 1:21:54.800 --> 1:21:57.360 a bunch of the stuff. And there was a song 1:21:57.400 --> 1:22:02.120 called And meanwhile, over in San Francisco, Crosby was making 1:22:02.160 --> 1:22:05.559 his his album if I, if I could only remember 1:22:05.640 --> 1:22:11.280 my name, And and that was turning into a group 1:22:11.360 --> 1:22:15.960 thing too, because everybody, you know, all all a lot 1:22:16.000 --> 1:22:19.519 of the dead, and Paul and Grace and I were 1:22:19.560 --> 1:22:21.919 over there for a lot of the sessions, just just 1:22:21.920 --> 1:22:23.679 just to hang and watch out and see if there's 1:22:23.680 --> 1:22:28.599 anything we could do. And there was a whole thing 1:22:28.680 --> 1:22:36.120 called the what they call it, where everybody like Crosby, Nash, 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:44.160 Phil Lesh, Paul, Grace, Me, Crosby, course Jerry Garcia would 1:22:44.200 --> 1:22:47.120 be there and we'd all just hang out, be jamming 1:22:47.200 --> 1:22:51.360 on songs. And I mean, I learned how to play 1:22:51.560 --> 1:22:55.080 that song, the Grateful Dead song, the Loser. He was 1:22:55.120 --> 1:22:57.200 writing that at that point. So he was playing that, 1:22:57.240 --> 1:23:00.000 and we ever teaching to everybody, and we were all 1:23:00.160 --> 1:23:02.880 playing that, and every bit of it was recorded on 1:23:02.960 --> 1:23:07.839 two tracks, and it was called the Paro the Planet 1:23:07.840 --> 1:23:11.840 Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra, the PAO tapes, and that 1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:16.840 got out as an underground thing. So these long long 1:23:16.960 --> 1:23:21.360 jams on on one song or so anyway, So that 1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:24.599 was happening, and so I was hanging out with Paul 1:23:24.640 --> 1:23:27.160 and Grace a lot, and I heard this one song, 1:23:27.240 --> 1:23:30.680 I heard them singing on it. Would sound really good. 1:23:30.680 --> 1:23:33.479 It's called Blind John the guitar player, and they could 1:23:33.479 --> 1:23:36.200 sing on it if they if they wanted to, and 1:23:36.240 --> 1:23:38.280 said you want to sing it? So they said sure, 1:23:38.439 --> 1:23:41.240 So we brought him over to Mickey's and they we 1:23:41.320 --> 1:23:44.960 sang the background vocals and Grace actually I saw her, 1:23:45.439 --> 1:23:48.120 said I heard, I heard a piano part for that, 1:23:48.320 --> 1:23:55.160 she played the piano. And shortly after we finished Mickey's album, 1:23:55.880 --> 1:24:00.360 Marty left the airplane and Paul and Grace asked me 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:05.280 to come and sing the harmonies and be the other 1:24:05.680 --> 1:24:07.639 other guy singer because they had to be two guys 1:24:07.640 --> 1:24:12.640 and a girl. And so that got me into Jefferson. 1:24:12.320 --> 1:24:24.559 Airplane, okay, and Jefferson the Airplane that ultimately disintegrates. 1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:27.719 Right, So meanwhile, there's there's some time off after after 1:24:27.880 --> 1:24:31.960 all the touring for they were touring uh Long John Silver, 1:24:32.080 --> 1:24:33.840 I think that was the name of the album, right, 1:24:34.800 --> 1:24:40.559 But Paul and Grace both owed Narcia record, so the 1:24:40.600 --> 1:24:43.000 first one ended up being Baron von told Booth and 1:24:43.040 --> 1:24:46.000 the Chrome Nun, which is credited to Paul, Grace and 1:24:46.040 --> 1:24:49.160 me because we just got together and put it to 1:24:49.400 --> 1:24:51.720 you know, got it together, and everybody else in San 1:24:51.720 --> 1:24:55.880 Francisco because Jerry Garcia is on it, and Mickey Hart's 1:24:55.920 --> 1:24:58.160 on it, you know, Yorman jack Aer on it, you know, 1:24:59.360 --> 1:25:03.360 everybody's it. And that that was pretty good. And then 1:25:03.400 --> 1:25:07.439 then Grace O had had one called Manhole and it 1:25:07.560 --> 1:25:10.400 was the same thing. You know, we used the Great 1:25:10.400 --> 1:25:15.360 San Francisco Wealth of Musicians and we did that one, 1:25:15.439 --> 1:25:17.000 and then we had had to figure out what are 1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:21.760 we going to do? And Pete Sears was was was 1:25:21.840 --> 1:25:26.080 up playing get Nick doing a Kathy m MacDonald album in 1:25:26.120 --> 1:25:29.439 the same in another studio at Wally Hyder's, and I 1:25:30.200 --> 1:25:33.439 coveted him when I first saw him. He was playing 1:25:33.439 --> 1:25:38.519 with John Schippolina's band after he left Quicksilvery, and there 1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:41.439 was a guy named Jim McPherson and him that played 1:25:41.479 --> 1:25:45.679 both played keyboards and bass, and so they switched back 1:25:45.680 --> 1:25:48.040 and forth, and I thought that would be great because 1:25:49.000 --> 1:25:50.760 I would love to be in a band with him 1:25:50.800 --> 1:25:54.880 because he played them both beautifully, you know, and he 1:25:55.000 --> 1:25:59.040 was and so I brought I hinted it Paul and Grace, 1:25:59.280 --> 1:26:01.720 you know, to meet this guy. So I brought him 1:26:01.720 --> 1:26:05.559 over and he played jammed a little blue song which 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:09.639 Grace turned into Better Lie Down I think on her 1:26:09.720 --> 1:26:14.639 album and and they got to know him, which is 1:26:14.960 --> 1:26:19.240 very good. And so when it came time what are 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:20.439 we going to do? How are we going to get 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:23.880 to band together? And said, well, and what are we 1:26:23.920 --> 1:26:27.280 going to call it? Well, you know, you know that 1:26:27.520 --> 1:26:32.640 you know about Paul's blows against the empire, had it 1:26:32.880 --> 1:26:37.280 was who the cast was, who played the players? Where 1:26:37.320 --> 1:26:40.920 he called it the Jefferson Jefferson Starship Crew. So he 1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:44.439 had already had the name. It seemed obvious that that's 1:26:44.479 --> 1:26:49.559 what we should let the name turn into. And everything 1:26:49.600 --> 1:26:54.280 went that way. And so when Pete Didget, I think 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:57.519 he was playing with a Rod Stewart album in England, 1:26:58.040 --> 1:27:01.600 and when when that was over, he came back and 1:27:02.080 --> 1:27:04.800 we went on the first tour without him because he 1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:07.840 was finishing that record. But he came back and was 1:27:07.880 --> 1:27:11.080 on all the all the Jefferson Starship albums. 1:27:12.680 --> 1:27:17.440 Okay, the first one, Dragonfly. There's one successful track, Caroline, 1:27:17.560 --> 1:27:20.920 sung by Marty, but Marty isn't in the band. How 1:27:20.960 --> 1:27:22.800 does that work? And how does Marty end up in 1:27:22.800 --> 1:27:23.200 the band. 1:27:24.240 --> 1:27:26.200 Well, that's how he ended up in the band, I think, 1:27:28.439 --> 1:27:33.200 because because he didn't like what was happening between Yorman 1:27:33.160 --> 1:27:36.600 and Jack and Paul and Grace, and nobody wanted to 1:27:36.640 --> 1:27:39.400 do what he wanted to do. I think, what's just 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:44.679 sing Marty ballance songs, you know, And and that worked 1:27:44.800 --> 1:27:48.120 that he could still write with with Paul and so 1:27:49.080 --> 1:27:52.160 I assume that's why why he agreed to come back 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:55.599 and do Red Octopus with us. 1:27:55.840 --> 1:28:00.880 Red Octopus is a gigantic success with Miracles. Did you 1:28:00.920 --> 1:28:03.040 guys know it was going to be so big? 1:28:04.840 --> 1:28:10.760 I could feel. I never wanted to think about, oh, 1:28:10.800 --> 1:28:13.080 this is going to be really big or anything like that. 1:28:13.120 --> 1:28:16.840 I just wanted but I knew that that one from 1:28:16.920 --> 1:28:19.280 the moment we played it in the studio. I mean, 1:28:19.320 --> 1:28:21.280 because we rehearsed it and it was a lot of fun. 1:28:21.720 --> 1:28:25.960 When we played it in the studio, every everybody did 1:28:26.000 --> 1:28:29.080 exactly the right thing. That was like that was like 1:28:29.120 --> 1:28:30.200 a magical one to me. 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:35.400 Okay, this is the first time you've been making music 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:37.960 for years, but this is the first time you've been 1:28:37.960 --> 1:28:40.600 involved with something that is commercially successful. 1:28:42.080 --> 1:28:45.360 He yeah, And. 1:28:46.840 --> 1:28:50.000 Was your life now different? Were you making any money? 1:28:50.080 --> 1:28:52.400 It was a big band and you didn't write the hit, 1:28:53.000 --> 1:28:54.800 but you were on the album. How did it all 1:28:54.800 --> 1:28:55.240 work out? 1:28:55.320 --> 1:29:00.880 For you worked that great, I thought. I mean, I 1:29:00.880 --> 1:29:02.880 mean we had a song, I think song on the 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:08.360 album that it wasn't a hit, but it got played. 1:29:10.640 --> 1:29:13.719 Actually I played the the intro that the we're gonna 1:29:13.760 --> 1:29:17.040 look at the beginning was mine. So that's kind of 1:29:17.080 --> 1:29:18.599 the first hook. 1:29:20.120 --> 1:29:25.640 So the next album is successful, not as successful as Redoctopus, 1:29:25.680 --> 1:29:30.600 almost nothing could be right. And then you know the 1:29:30.720 --> 1:29:36.440 band starts, you know, switching into something different. Okay, yeah, 1:29:36.880 --> 1:29:37.800 tell me about that. 1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:45.360 Oh what was that Kevin Beamish? Right? 1:29:47.080 --> 1:29:49.680 Will you make another record? And that is nowhere near 1:29:49.680 --> 1:29:54.200 as successful? When's the change? Ron Nevison comes in? You 1:29:54.240 --> 1:29:58.200 write the same gene you're on that album. Yeah, but 1:29:58.320 --> 1:30:04.519 ron Nevison is is about Lucy Goosey, like San Francisco. No, no, 1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:06.760 So how did you feel about all that? 1:30:07.920 --> 1:30:11.000 I thought he did a great job actually, but he 1:30:11.080 --> 1:30:14.400 had his own problems, but he got it done. I mean, 1:30:15.760 --> 1:30:18.200 you know, I wasn't the only writer. I mean I 1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:21.320 started the song and my friend Jim McPherson and I 1:30:21.360 --> 1:30:26.320 wrote that wrote the melodies and the changes and the words. 1:30:26.439 --> 1:30:28.760 I mean, he helped me with the words. Basically I 1:30:28.760 --> 1:30:31.720 had the melody and the changes, but Craig came up 1:30:31.760 --> 1:30:35.479 with that great rock arrangement, so that's the CASEO and 1:30:35.560 --> 1:30:38.680 Paul came up with the intro, so that was his 1:30:38.760 --> 1:30:42.800 little lick at the beginning. So that's so they each 1:30:42.840 --> 1:30:44.160 got's points on it. 1:30:44.200 --> 1:30:48.960 So okay, then there's another album, you know with ron 1:30:49.080 --> 1:30:54.120 Nevisin where Craig writes the hit find Your Way Back. Yeah, 1:30:54.439 --> 1:30:57.080 And how does Nicky Thomas get in the bed? 1:30:58.560 --> 1:31:03.439 Well, he was in the band for when Grace left. 1:31:03.800 --> 1:31:07.519 He was he sang Jane, didn't he right? 1:31:07.560 --> 1:31:09.240 But how did you find him? How were you? He 1:31:09.320 --> 1:31:11.400 was working with Elvin Bishop. How did he end up 1:31:11.400 --> 1:31:12.080 in your band? 1:31:12.920 --> 1:31:17.080 Well, Marty and Grace both quit and Paul and I 1:31:17.120 --> 1:31:20.479 agreed with him, said said he thought we needed a 1:31:20.520 --> 1:31:24.760 new lead singer, so we started auditioning people and we 1:31:24.840 --> 1:31:29.040 had Jane. So it kind of seemed like the person 1:31:29.080 --> 1:31:31.400 that sang Jane best was gonna was going to be 1:31:31.479 --> 1:31:39.880 the guy. And uh, I don't know quite remember how 1:31:39.880 --> 1:31:43.160 he be came who talked him into coming in? 1:31:46.520 --> 1:31:49.040 Okay, how do you ultimately leave? 1:31:51.400 --> 1:31:54.240 Well, there's a few albums before I know, we'll tell 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:59.719 you the story. Uh. He brought in Peter wolf Right, 1:32:00.120 --> 1:32:05.880 who was the most. If anybody's around and you need 1:32:05.960 --> 1:32:09.080 keyboards played, it'd have to be him, because he was 1:32:09.160 --> 1:32:14.400 a genius and he was he was great. But I 1:32:14.439 --> 1:32:17.480 don't know, I was doing less. I was doing much less. 1:32:18.600 --> 1:32:20.800 You know. I'd sing and maybe I'd get to play 1:32:20.800 --> 1:32:23.920 a little keys or something here, or play a little bass. 1:32:24.360 --> 1:32:29.400 And it felt like they were going more towards being 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:33.120 a corporate kind of band, you know what I mean, 1:32:33.640 --> 1:32:35.320 where they're going to say, Okay, we'll sit here and 1:32:35.400 --> 1:32:38.719 we'll listen to people's songs and we'll pick the songs 1:32:38.760 --> 1:32:42.160 we're going to do, which is what it turned into 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:45.640 after I left and Paul left, and so you know, 1:32:46.240 --> 1:32:48.400 and it was trying of it was moves to pull 1:32:48.600 --> 1:32:53.519 push Paul out, you know, because nobody wanted to do 1:32:54.120 --> 1:32:56.920 his crazy songs or anything, you know, and I kind 1:32:56.920 --> 1:33:00.719 of like Paul's crazy songs. Some of them were really good. 1:33:01.479 --> 1:33:06.280 And uh, but I also have a hard time quitting band. 1:33:06.360 --> 1:33:08.160 Says well, I noticed I should have quit Quick Sliver 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:11.559 before I did, and I probably should have quit this one. 1:33:12.120 --> 1:33:13.840 Well how did it add? Did they push you to 1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:14.439 you jump? 1:33:15.720 --> 1:33:19.280 Oh? They pushed, they pushed, But I saw it coming. 1:33:20.120 --> 1:33:21.720 I mean I could. I could tell by all the 1:33:21.760 --> 1:33:24.960 contracts that were being signed and things like that. Oh, 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:27.640 people could be fired from the band. Okay yet da 1:33:27.680 --> 1:33:30.680 yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I said, I said, SKay them, 1:33:30.800 --> 1:33:32.800 now they can fire me. So I expected it. I 1:33:32.800 --> 1:33:36.640 expected because I wasn't doing anything and I and I 1:33:36.720 --> 1:33:40.120 was thinking about getting out myself, you know, So that 1:33:40.280 --> 1:33:46.760 just made it final. So you know, I didn't take 1:33:46.760 --> 1:33:50.200 it that hard. Actually, and you know, if I if I, 1:33:50.200 --> 1:33:52.680 if I hadn't been it didn't get out of it, 1:33:52.720 --> 1:33:56.040 I probably never would have met my wife. Now went 1:33:56.280 --> 1:34:03.160 the magnificent Linden Imperial and uh and so I was 1:34:03.240 --> 1:34:04.160 quite happy about it. 1:34:04.200 --> 1:34:07.720 Actually, okay, you're out of the band. What are you 1:34:07.720 --> 1:34:08.559 going to do for money? 1:34:10.360 --> 1:34:16.120 Oh, I'll screep it up somehow, you know, I had 1:34:16.120 --> 1:34:20.519 some money anyway, pushed it put away and so I 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:22.400 don't know, I went. I started. I hung out with 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:26.920 Gary Duncan again, who seemed to be reasonable again. And 1:34:27.000 --> 1:34:31.720 actually that's how I met Linda. You know. I got 1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:33.920 a phone call and he says, hey, David, I got 1:34:33.920 --> 1:34:36.920 this chick singer coming coming around and I need to 1:34:36.960 --> 1:34:41.600 do some background vocals and and because the ones that 1:34:41.640 --> 1:34:43.880 are on there. Man, the girls got too screwed up 1:34:43.920 --> 1:34:46.439 and I can't use any of it. He says, Okay, 1:34:46.520 --> 1:34:49.360 I'll come over. And so I ended up picking up 1:34:49.400 --> 1:34:53.120 this chick singer at the bus stop and bringing them 1:34:53.160 --> 1:34:55.639 over to it to his studio, and it was Linda 1:34:55.680 --> 1:35:00.559 Imperial and h just like falling off a lall we're saying, 1:35:01.000 --> 1:35:05.000 I think four did four background four songs, backgrounds topped 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:09.920 a bottom in one day and it was beautiful. 1:35:11.120 --> 1:35:14.719 Okay, Well, how long did it last with the marriage 1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:16.320 with the woman you met at the film bore? 1:35:18.160 --> 1:35:22.080 Oh? Julia, Well, I have a beautiful daughter with her. 1:35:22.560 --> 1:35:31.960 Jessica girl, Yeah, girl, girl, Julie, Julia. We got divorced, 1:35:33.080 --> 1:35:36.200 very dignified. I mean it was it was easy. We 1:35:36.240 --> 1:35:38.080 all just got together and said, well what do we have? 1:35:38.240 --> 1:35:40.679 We have this house? Okay, you want me to buy 1:35:40.800 --> 1:35:44.200 your half of it? And she said that sounds really good. 1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:46.080 So I bought her half of the house. I don't 1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:51.000 think her lawyer liked it, but she insisted that's all 1:35:51.040 --> 1:35:51.479 she wanted. 1:35:53.280 --> 1:35:58.000 Okay, at this late date, do you get any royalties. 1:35:59.439 --> 1:35:59.760 From what? 1:36:00.280 --> 1:36:05.599 From records? Songs? Sure enough to live on. 1:36:09.680 --> 1:36:10.040 Close? 1:36:10.520 --> 1:36:15.559 Oh that's good, that's good. So the way you tell 1:36:15.640 --> 1:36:19.640 the story is you were kind of bumping around and 1:36:19.680 --> 1:36:21.120 he said I want to I kind of want to 1:36:21.120 --> 1:36:24.000 do this, and you were kind of falling into things. 1:36:24.600 --> 1:36:28.600 Is that an accurate description or were you really aggressive? 1:36:28.640 --> 1:36:32.360 Has got a bad connotation, But were you more like, well, geez, 1:36:32.400 --> 1:36:34.000 I kind of want to do this. You know, I 1:36:34.040 --> 1:36:36.800 met this guy. This guy seems to be going somewhere. 1:36:37.400 --> 1:36:40.000 You know, if we look back, what was it like? 1:36:41.320 --> 1:36:43.880 I didn't really think about it like that. I think 1:36:43.920 --> 1:36:47.800 I wanted to go. I wanted I wanted to be 1:36:47.920 --> 1:36:55.200 in a band where everybody respected each other and and 1:36:55.200 --> 1:36:59.479 and you know, and I don't think I ever found 1:36:59.520 --> 1:37:01.200 one it till I was in the one that I'm 1:37:01.240 --> 1:37:07.280 in now, because that feels great, It's absolutely great. 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:11.720 And then, you know, if you weren't living in San Francisco, 1:37:11.840 --> 1:37:14.400 you were hearing about the hate ashbery, you were hearing 1:37:14.400 --> 1:37:17.240 about drugs, hearing about Summer of Love. What was your 1:37:17.280 --> 1:37:18.000 take on all of that? 1:37:20.000 --> 1:37:25.519 Oh yeah, that was kind of a mistake. I mean, 1:37:25.560 --> 1:37:27.640 nothing lasts forever. I mean, you can't come out and 1:37:27.680 --> 1:37:34.760 find and as soon as it hit the I saw 1:37:35.240 --> 1:37:40.200 somebody like like guys in Vietnam, looking at the Quicksilver 1:37:40.280 --> 1:37:46.360 Messenger service, uh album on in Time on Times, Time 1:37:46.400 --> 1:37:50.559 Magazine's cover or something like that. And once once you're 1:37:50.600 --> 1:37:54.280 in Time magazine or stuff like that, it's all over 1:37:56.160 --> 1:37:58.679 because because it can't it can't be the same. Everybody's 1:37:58.720 --> 1:38:00.559 going to want to come out and see. It has 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:03.160 to be turned into a one way I mean, yeah, 1:38:03.200 --> 1:38:05.360 it has to be turned into a one way street 1:38:05.520 --> 1:38:08.439 because there's too many, too much traffic and you know, 1:38:08.560 --> 1:38:10.560 everybody's coming out to see the hippies who went to 1:38:10.600 --> 1:38:11.800 Meriton County last year. 1:38:12.439 --> 1:38:18.320 You know, So before it got all the publicity, was 1:38:18.360 --> 1:38:20.120 it a dream? Was it great. 1:38:21.160 --> 1:38:24.719 For Yeah, for a few months, I'd say maybe six, 1:38:25.240 --> 1:38:30.200 but you know it it's you know, it wasn't that 1:38:30.439 --> 1:38:33.559 cut and dried. But for the first year it was 1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:36.080 fine until it got really big. And then when it 1:38:36.080 --> 1:38:39.800 gets really big, it's it's too big to I mean, 1:38:39.920 --> 1:38:41.639 San Francisco couldn't hold all that. 1:38:43.920 --> 1:38:49.320 So being a folks singer, yeah, seeing everything, what do 1:38:49.360 --> 1:38:53.000 you see in today's world? So he can do There 1:38:53.040 --> 1:38:55.559 was a thought back in the sixties music could change 1:38:55.560 --> 1:38:59.760 the world. How do you feel about today's world and 1:39:00.200 --> 1:39:03.080 can it be changed by music? Does it even need changing. 1:39:04.720 --> 1:39:10.759 It certainly seems like it needs changing, but it could help. 1:39:12.240 --> 1:39:14.720 I don't think it could do it. I don't think 1:39:15.439 --> 1:39:19.240 any one thing could change. People have to change, and 1:39:19.400 --> 1:39:22.320 are they going to I don't know. But all you 1:39:22.320 --> 1:39:24.520 can do is try. 1:39:24.720 --> 1:39:28.120 Well, would you consider yourself an old hippie you never 1:39:28.200 --> 1:39:31.599 sold out, or how do you view yourself? 1:39:33.040 --> 1:39:35.040 I don't know. I kind of sold out. I made 1:39:35.080 --> 1:39:40.280 money doing stuff, But yes, I still agree I haven't changed. 1:39:41.560 --> 1:39:43.519 It sounds to me like you kind of made money 1:39:43.520 --> 1:39:44.200 by accident. 1:39:45.479 --> 1:39:48.120 Well, I was in the right place at the right time, 1:39:49.200 --> 1:39:55.040 I must admit. I mean that's part of it. But 1:39:55.160 --> 1:40:03.880 you have have some talent and and I still have 1:40:04.040 --> 1:40:09.679 values and and I know that people in our band 1:40:09.720 --> 1:40:13.400 do that when we have now really do and we're 1:40:14.840 --> 1:40:18.840 trying trying to change things. But all we can all 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:23.799 we can do is is is singing and and and 1:40:24.000 --> 1:40:27.400 so that people are all just people, man, They're all 1:40:27.520 --> 1:40:32.960 just people, and they ain't that much different anywhere you go. 1:40:34.720 --> 1:40:36.880 And anybody that tells you any different is trying to 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:37.439 get something. 1:40:40.120 --> 1:40:45.719 So what do you want to be remembered for? Don't 1:40:45.720 --> 1:40:49.639 need to be remembered. I don't know that's a basic question. 1:40:50.080 --> 1:40:50.920 Maybe you don't care. 1:40:53.120 --> 1:40:57.240 I don't know. I want to remember for a guy 1:40:57.280 --> 1:41:00.679 that did the did the right thing for as he could. 1:41:02.720 --> 1:41:05.840 I don't know. That's the kind of all I can 1:41:05.880 --> 1:41:06.280 ask for. 1:41:07.280 --> 1:41:10.280 And you still are in contact with the beat people. 1:41:10.320 --> 1:41:13.680 You're out on the road with Jefferson Starship, but all 1:41:13.720 --> 1:41:17.800 the other people from San Francisco band, some you were in, 1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:21.120 some you weren't, who are still alive, which is a 1:41:21.160 --> 1:41:24.280 big thing. Is there still a community you still talk 1:41:24.400 --> 1:41:26.760 to them, or is basically everybody's doing their own thing. 1:41:27.800 --> 1:41:31.240 Well, unfortunately, I'm the only time I ever see any 1:41:31.880 --> 1:41:38.160 old friends is that it's somebody else's funeral. But I'm 1:41:38.200 --> 1:41:43.519 just trying to to make it to be positive through 1:41:43.560 --> 1:41:45.840 what's happening now, and that's hard. 1:41:47.040 --> 1:41:51.439 The heavy lift. Okay, David, you've belistening to David Freiburg, 1:41:51.479 --> 1:41:54.120 who was there when it all happened in San Francisco 1:41:54.240 --> 1:41:57.440 and you know him of course from Quicksilver Jefferson Starship 1:41:57.760 --> 1:42:01.320 Still Jefferson Starship. I want to thank you for taking 1:42:01.360 --> 1:42:04.599 this time to speak with my audience. Got back until 1:42:04.720 --> 1:42:07.120 next time. This is Bob left six 1:42:28.840 --> 1:42:28.880 H