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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is David Ryper. David, there's a Mickey

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Speaker 1: Thomas Starship and you're the Jefferson Starship. Explain to me

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Speaker 1: what's going on here.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, that sounds a bit confusing. Okay, So there

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Speaker 2: was a Jefferson Starship and that was Paul Cantner. Actually,

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Speaker 2: Paul Kntnor, Grace Slick and I were starting it kind

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Speaker 2: of because we we were what was left of Jefferson,

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Speaker 2: part of what was left of Jefferson Airplane when they

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Speaker 2: decided not to be Jefferson Airplane anymore. And we had

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Speaker 2: recorded a couple of albums and we thought we need

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Speaker 2: to go out on the road, and we didn't know

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Speaker 2: what to call it. And so I'm going way back

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Speaker 2: to the beginning here.

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Speaker 1: So well, actually I'd like to go back to the beginning. Leader, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's just talk.

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Speaker 2: I gotcha right now.

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Speaker 1: My understandings, there's two acts, and why are the two

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Speaker 1: acts and what is the difference?

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Speaker 2: Okay. Paul Kantner restarted Jefferson's Starship in the nineties after

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Speaker 2: it was did not exist for the for the for

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Speaker 2: the five last five years of the eighties, it became Starship.

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Speaker 2: But then at the end of that Starship ceased to exist.

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Speaker 2: So Paul thought, well, a fine time, just restart and

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Speaker 2: do what I want to do, what I've always loved

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Speaker 2: to do, So we restarted Jefferson Starship. So Mickey Thomas

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Speaker 2: was the lead singer in Starship. He wanted something to do.

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Speaker 2: So I do not know anything for a fact here.

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Speaker 2: I assume that he so going against all the legal

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Speaker 2: things he managed to I guess he could call it

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Speaker 2: Starship featuring Mickey Thomas or Mickey Thomas's Starship, and they

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Speaker 2: would let him do that. But meanwhile, there's this other

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Speaker 2: Jefferson Starship that was existing with Paul Kantner right along

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Speaker 2: the way, and this band is what is left. We

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Speaker 2: were all in the final version of Jefferson Starship when

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Speaker 2: Paul passed away in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if I go to see Jefferson Starship and you

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Speaker 1: do many gigs on the road, what material am I

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Speaker 1: going to hear?

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Speaker 2: Stuff from the whole Jefferson Starship, airplane even Starship era.

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Speaker 2: We'll do it all, Okay, I don't know whether you're

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Speaker 2: actually going to hear every single song we ever did.

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Speaker 2: That would be impossible, but yeah, we do it from

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Speaker 2: all the eras.

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Speaker 1: And do you do the same set every night when

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Speaker 1: you have like a run of dates or do you

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Speaker 1: vary it up?

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Speaker 2: We vary it up. I mean that all depends on

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Speaker 2: what we're doing, meaning what Okay, Well, say we were

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Speaker 2: going out opening up for bt O and UH and

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Speaker 2: Uh Marshall Tucker and so we only had a half

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Speaker 2: hours being the opening band for this last little bit,

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Speaker 2: and so we just had it. We did do the

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Speaker 2: same set there because we picked the songs, the songs

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Speaker 2: that they thought that the audience would have to hear.

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Speaker 2: So we fit squeeze seven songs into a half an hour.

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Speaker 2: So it's pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm interesting because it's a big catalog and I'm

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Speaker 1: familiar with it. What are the sevens I could guess,

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Speaker 1: But what are the seven songs people have to hear?

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Speaker 2: Well? I don't know this. This are the ones we

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Speaker 2: came up with that we could fit, we could piece

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Speaker 2: together that would would work. Okay, what did we do?

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Speaker 2: We did find your way back? We did miracles. Then

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Speaker 2: we did Nothing's going to stop us now? And we

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Speaker 2: did uh why rabbit and we did. We built this city,

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Speaker 2: and we did Jane, and then we did Somebody to Love.

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Speaker 2: If we were lucky, it had ended before thirty minutes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're eighty six years old, Yeah, soon to turn

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Speaker 1: eighty seven. What is keeping you on the road.

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Speaker 2: These people that are in the band right now, that

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Speaker 2: we get along so well, and the whole thing. When

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Speaker 2: Paul passed away, we said, well, now what are we

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Speaker 2: going to do? We love each other so much, and

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Speaker 2: Grace and Grace Slick decided that she thought she thought

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Speaker 2: the band should go on, and she and she had

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Speaker 2: the key to the highway, so she gave us the license.

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Speaker 1: Well, you've been doing this for sixty almost years at

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Speaker 1: almost sixty. What is the difference going out at eighty

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Speaker 1: as opposed to twenty six?

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Speaker 2: Well, I can move around a little better back when

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Speaker 2: I was twenty six. I'm a little slower, I say,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I can still sing knock on wood.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask questions a little. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't live to eighty six. There are people who are

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Speaker 1: totally spried Cochin and able into their nineties. Their acts

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Speaker 1: on the road today in their late seventies were on

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Speaker 1: the road and can't sing. I guess what I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is so many people are plagued by health proms. You're

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Speaker 1: obviously talking to me, But you've lived so long. Is

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Speaker 1: it because the luck of the genes? Or is it

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Speaker 1: because you take such good care of yourself? What explains

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Speaker 1: your spryness.

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Speaker 2: I go with the former, the luck of the genes,

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Speaker 2: because I haven't particularly taken very good care of myself.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I do, you know, I do go to

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Speaker 2: the gym and work out now to to keep my

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Speaker 2: you know, my you know, my self, you know, torso safe,

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Speaker 2: you know, keep it in shape. But other than that,

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Speaker 2: I mean I try to eat a sensible diet, and

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Speaker 2: not that I don't have any problems I have. I

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Speaker 2: have a I have an artificial heart valve, you know,

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Speaker 2: but it seems to be working.

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Speaker 1: Since where you know, you're doing great. It's like my

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Speaker 1: doctor says, all of his patients who lived to ninety

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Speaker 1: have had at least one bout of cancer. Have you

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Speaker 1: had cancer?

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Speaker 2: I just had a couple of lymph nodes that had

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Speaker 2: ever removed, But knock on wood, I don't have any now.

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Speaker 1: So what pills do you take every day? And how

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Speaker 1: many pills.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I take about I don't know, two, three, four,

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Speaker 2: about five six pills twice a day something like that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there are a lot of people who say, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to take pills, and going back to my

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Speaker 1: doctor again, is you take the pills. They're going to

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Speaker 1: keep you alive. They're doing things. You have a viewpoint

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Speaker 1: on the pills at all.

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Speaker 2: Well, my only only thing I can I can fathom

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Speaker 2: is that they are keeping me alive because I ain't dead.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how old did your parents live to?

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Speaker 2: Mom made it to ninety two and dad made it

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Speaker 2: to eighty eight.

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Speaker 1: Okay, not the same in my family. But you do

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Speaker 1: have good genes. Okay, when you live to eighty six,

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends pass away before you do. How

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Speaker 1: do you metabolize that? How do you cope with it?

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Speaker 2: You have to accept it? And I don't know. I've

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Speaker 2: I tend to accept that. The universe, I'm not I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure the law of conservation of energy, you know,

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Speaker 2: if if it exists, it's going to exist in another

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Speaker 2: form somehow, nothing disappears, you know, it's either mass or

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Speaker 2: it's energy, and and so I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I have yet to find out, I suppose. Okay, So

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Speaker 2: if I find out I've forgotten.

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Speaker 1: Other than your bandmates, do you have a best friend

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Speaker 1: someone you can call or if some of those people

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Speaker 1: passed away and you've had to switch to another person.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them passed away, sure, most of them.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, let's go back to the beginning. So where

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Speaker 1: are you from originally?

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Speaker 2: Well? I was born in Boston, And what did would

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Speaker 2: your parents do for a living in Boston? My dad

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Speaker 2: came from a fairly wealthy family and it was right

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Speaker 2: in the in the during the depression, so they seem

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Speaker 2: to have kept him in Harvard for the whole depression.

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Speaker 2: And when I was born, I think I think he

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Speaker 2: had he has four Harvard degrees, so it makes me

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Speaker 2: think that he couldn't figure out what else to do

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Speaker 2: and he ended up being an attorney. I think he

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Speaker 2: was working for the New England Dairy Farmers or something.

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Speaker 2: He was their attorney.

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Speaker 1: Then how do you meet your mother? What was her story?

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Speaker 2: They were both from Cincinnati and they I don't know,

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Speaker 2: they ran into each other and I and I believe

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Speaker 2: dad's college roommate married my mom's sister.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So how long did you live in Boston?

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Speaker 2: Only until I was about this Second World War? My

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Speaker 2: dad went in the Navy and my mom went back

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Speaker 2: to live with their parents in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you have any memories of that era?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I few still linger tell me, Oh, I remember,

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Speaker 2: you know, saving saving cans and things like that for

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Speaker 2: for for the war effort. Yeah. Uh. And terrible stories

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Speaker 2: that came back being Jewish RADI stories came back, you know.

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Speaker 1: So the war ends, then what happens?

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Speaker 2: Uh? I was I end up? I end up? Uh?

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Speaker 2: My dad was an in the Attu Island for most

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Speaker 2: of the war, just the Boer War he called it.

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Speaker 2: Nothing ever happened. And then the then before he got discharged,

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Speaker 2: they stationed it in North Carolina, and I'd had one

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Speaker 2: to the second grade in North Carolina. And then when

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Speaker 2: he got discharged, we moved back to Cincinnati, which is

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Speaker 2: where I stayed until I moved out here in nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty nine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're living in Cincinnati. You have brothers and sisters,

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Speaker 1: two brothers and a sister. Yes, And where are you

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Speaker 1: in the hierarchy.

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Speaker 2: I'm the oldest, the oldest.

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Speaker 1: All the hopes and dreams were in you.

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Speaker 2: They're all still here. I don't know whether his hopes

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Speaker 2: and dreams. I thought he thought he was going to

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Speaker 2: get a doctor or a lawyer or something.

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Speaker 1: What have your siblings been up to? What would their

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Speaker 1: lives look like?

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Speaker 2: My brother was an advertising art director for all of

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Speaker 2: his life, and I know he's kind, but they're all

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Speaker 2: into They're all into music a little bit. I mean

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Speaker 2: he plays viola and string quartets, as did eye when

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Speaker 2: I was in high school.

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Speaker 1: But okay, you're going to school, what kind of kid

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Speaker 1: and what kind of student? Were you?

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Speaker 2: Terrible? I didn't get along with my father. He expected

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Speaker 2: me to hit the books. Because I think I've looked.

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Speaker 2: I kind of learned that that he uh he didn't

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Speaker 2: do well in school, but he got into Harvard anyway,

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Speaker 2: and he and then he learned to buckle down and

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Speaker 2: get things done, thus the four Harvard degrees. But uh

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Speaker 2: so he wanted me to and I completely revolted it,

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Speaker 2: and I must I do not remember doing this on purpose,

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Speaker 2: but I did terribly in high school. He really wanted

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Speaker 2: me to go to Harvard, but there was no way

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Speaker 2: that I was. I couldn't make myself do homework. But

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Speaker 2: I was very interested. I was playing in the orchestra.

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Speaker 2: I was playing, you know, in high school. I played

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Speaker 2: violin and viola and the orchestra and string quartets. It

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Speaker 2: was pretty good for a high school guy. But I

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Speaker 2: wasn't prodigy or anything.

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Speaker 1: Where did the music come from? There was there music

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Speaker 1: in the house.

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Speaker 2: Constantly he played. They played classical music, and he liked

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Speaker 2: He liked Benny Goodman, he liked Lewis Armstrong and all

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Speaker 2: the Broadway hits. They were always playing and we could

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Speaker 2: sing them all, you know, all the kids.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're of an age you could remember the birth

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Speaker 1: of rock and roll. Can you tell me your first

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Speaker 1: experience of hearing Rocket eighty eight or Rock around the Clock?

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Speaker 1: And you know, did you like it? Did you dislike it?

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Speaker 2: I did like it, but it was so frowned upon

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Speaker 2: in my house. I mean, I could not get a guitar.

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Speaker 2: I really wanted a guitar, but I could never I

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Speaker 2: never bought one until I had moved to San Francisco,

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Speaker 2: and I was by about almost twenty two, I think,

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Speaker 2: before I bought my first guitar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate from high school, then what do you

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Speaker 1: do in Cincinnati?

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Speaker 2: I went to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: And did you graduate?

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Speaker 2: No? I I changed my major every semester.

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Speaker 1: How many years did you go to Miami?

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Speaker 2: I got three and a half. I think I got

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Speaker 2: I had one hundred and twenty units, but they were

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Speaker 2: all in different places, and it had taken me another

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Speaker 2: three years to graduate to get a major. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to end up being an English major, and

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Speaker 2: what am I going to do with that, you know?

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Speaker 2: And so I just I spent the whole time kind

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Speaker 2: of trying. First thing, my father said, you got to

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Speaker 2: be a scientist or or you know, or something, because

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Speaker 2: science is what's coming, you know. And so I try

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Speaker 2: and I failed. That is so I spent most of

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Speaker 2: my time screwing around, acting in place in the drama department,

244
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Speaker 2: but I took no classes in drama and singing and

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Speaker 2: singing in the choir and the and the Menscale club.

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Speaker 2: But I took no classes in music, even though I

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Speaker 2: had been recruited there by the head of the viola

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Speaker 2: department when I played viola in high school to go

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Speaker 2: there to study music. But music was nothing a good

250
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Speaker 2: Jewish boy was supposed to do unless you were David,

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Speaker 2: you know. Unless you were pick one, you hooty menu

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Speaker 2: and I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're there in Miami. I assume on your

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Speaker 1: father's dollar.

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Speaker 2: Right, absolutely wasting every penny of it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how do you decide to drop out? And what

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Speaker 1: does your father say?

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Speaker 2: Oh? We we ended up not talking mostly, you know.

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00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 2: I rebelled and I married the Catholic girl, my Catholic

260
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 2: girlfriend from college, and we got married and we just

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Speaker 2: knuck out of town and moved to San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's back up. Tell me about meeting this woman

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Speaker 1: and getting married.

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Speaker 2: I don't know things happened.

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Speaker 1: How'd you decide to get married?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know. That part is pretty doesn't remain

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Speaker 2: with me very much anymore.

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Speaker 1: Okay. How long were you married to that woman?

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Speaker 2: Until a year after we got to San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're with this woman? Why san Francisco.

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Speaker 2: I know when I was about a teenager, all of

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Speaker 2: us piled in a car and shrove all through the

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Speaker 2: United States. And when we came into San Francisco one summer, right,

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Speaker 2: all of us in the car. They come around on

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Speaker 2: the US one oh one coming into San Francisco, and

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Speaker 2: it was just about sunset. The fog was coming in

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Speaker 2: the sky was pink. It was the most beautiful thing

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Speaker 2: I'd ever seen. And we probably had the best dinner

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Speaker 2: I've ever had. And I just thought in my head,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to live here and somehow, And so that's

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Speaker 2: why I probably picked that. And also, I mean there

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Speaker 2: was the beat Nicks were out here, and I kind

283
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Speaker 2: of I was interested in that. And I was interested

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Speaker 2: in folk music, although I had didn't have a guitar yet,

285
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 2: but I was. I was always listening to it and

286
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 2: singing it. And I was a big peat Seeger fan,

287
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Speaker 2: and I love the Weavers.

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Speaker 1: And so, okay, you're talking to your new wife, what

289
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 1: is your pitch and what is the dream of what's

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00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 1: going to happen once you get to San Francisco.

291
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Speaker 2: Think most of us was getting out of Cincinnati because

292
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 2: she wasn't having a good time there either. She wanted

293
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 2: to get away from her mother and I wanted to

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Speaker 2: get away from my father.

295
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Speaker 1: Although, okay, you get to San Francisco, what are you

296
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Speaker 1: living on?

297
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 2: I tried to I had a little a little inheritance

298
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,400
Speaker 2: that I already had. It came from my grandparents, I think,

299
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,920
Speaker 2: so I went through that pretty quick. But I was

300
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 2: supposed to have a job at a I don't know,

301
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 2: some trucking company, but it turned out not to be

302
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 2: there when I got there. So I think I worked

303
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 2: for a pawn shop in Oakland until I got a

304
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Speaker 2: job with the Southern Pacific Railroad in their main office

305
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, and because I liked trains, but after

306
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,439
Speaker 2: I got there, I learned that that they didn't really

307
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 2: like trains. They like money. And so I worked my

308
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 2: way up and I was a freight rate analyst, but

309
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 2: I was a but back up a little bit. The

310
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 2: wife disappears, and I have no idea where she's gone.

311
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. You go to work one day

312
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,120
Speaker 1: and you come home she's not there.

313
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 2: She's not there, and no sign of her. The cops

314
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 2: haven't heard anything.

315
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 1: Is there stuff going?

316
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 2: No? Some of it? Okay, you know, it's not like

317
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 2: you know. I have no idea what happened. And the

318
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 2: only thing I could think of to do was I

319
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,920
Speaker 2: went out and bought a guitar and I started to

320
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 2: learn how to play guitar, and eventually I found her.

321
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 2: Some I think I was driving through Golden Gate Park

322
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Speaker 2: and I saw her, and I ran over to he

323
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 2: and say, hey, what's going on? And she came back

324
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 2: and she was pregnant.

325
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Speaker 1: Pregnant with someone else's baby.

326
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,479
Speaker 2: Someone else's baby.

327
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Speaker 1: Okay. Just to get the timeline straight, how long after

328
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Speaker 1: she had disappeared did you run into it?

329
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 2: Oh? Matter of weeks?

330
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So she had already found somebody else. You were

331
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 1: oblivious if.

332
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 2: It wasn't with them anymore. She wanted to come back.

333
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 1: Oh, and you said.

334
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: I said, I'm a nice guy. I said, well, okay,

335
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 2: but meanwhile, I'm gonna do what I'm going to do.

336
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,199
Speaker 2: So I was, I was playing the guitar, and I

337
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: was okay.

338
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: Just to get to the end of her story first,

339
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,199
Speaker 1: you think I can. Did she move back, did she

340
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: have the baby? How long much longer did you live together?

341
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 2: She did have the baby, and I don't know because

342
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 2: then I turned into a folks singer. So I first,

343
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 2: I'm working for the Southern Mississi Southern Pacific, and I'm

344
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 2: playing and I'm playing on weekends and and and our

345
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,959
Speaker 2: week nights whenever at the folk at the folk clubs

346
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 2: on hot night and andy knights, you know, And so

347
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 2: I'm listening to people that are up there, and I say, well,

348
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 2: if they could do that, I can certainly do that.

349
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: So I get up there and sing, and I saw, uh,

350
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 2: there was a note on the on the bulletin board

351
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: said wanted folk singers for Peace to travel through Mexico

352
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: all the way down to Central and South America, with

353
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 2: bringing nothing with us but living with the people and

354
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 2: to spread peace and happiness and brotherhood. And I said

355
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 2: that sounds very interesting, and so I got in touch

356
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: with the guy. He ended up being a Vietnam vet

357
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: who was definitely anti war. And this other there was

358
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: a girl named Sandy Rudin, little Jewish girl who knew

359
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 2: lots lots of folk songs and wanted to do it.

360
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 2: And I did it, and we were the three. And

361
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 2: I actually talked to Southern Pacific into giving me a

362
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: leave of absence. I was a freight raided analyst by then,

363
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 2: and I got permission.

364
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: Okay, Africa, a little lightning round? Yeah you or did

365
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: you not raise that child?

366
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 2: I didn't.

367
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: Okay, what year did all this happen that you went

368
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: took the leave of absence and went on the folks

369
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 1: singing tour?

370
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: Probably nineteen sixty two?

371
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: Okay, So this guy had been to Vietnam early when

372
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 1: most people weren't even aware of it. Yeah, well right, okay,

373
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: just to go back to something you said earlier. Okay, Now,

374
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: most people today are unfamiliar with Beatniks. They don't even

375
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: remember Dobie Gillis and the Energy Krebs. So can you

376
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 1: give us a few words about Beatnicks?

377
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know North Beach, I don't know Allen Ginsberg,

378
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: Jack Carrouac. They're playing bongos and the New Lank You know,

379
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 2: everybody's a cat, you know. Can you dig it? Poetry

380
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: recitals in coffeehouses?

381
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: To what degree? Was it limited to San Francisco? Was

382
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: it a completely you know, it's totally different today with

383
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: the Internet, etc. But yeah, what did people in Ohio

384
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: know about Beatniks or what was going on in San Francisco?

385
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: If anything?

386
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: I on the road by Jack Carrouac, I mean, and

387
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just knew they were there, and

388
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 2: I knew there was a lot of jazz being played there,

389
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: and you know, and I don't know. Okay, that wasn't

390
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: really the reason I picked it. I picked it because

391
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 2: it was just so beautiful.

392
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: Okay, And what exactly was your motivation to buy guitar

393
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: and play music.

394
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: That was the big mystery. I don't know. I had

395
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: always wanted one, and I never did it. And so

396
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: I said, well, screw all this stuff that's supposed to

397
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: be happening in my life. I'm going to do what

398
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 2: I want to do, you know. So I went and

399
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: bought the guitar and got a bunch of sing out

400
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: music and started learning learning how to how to play

401
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: and fingerpick and stuff. And it came pretty naturally to

402
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 2: me having played, you know, a strange instrument before.

403
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so now you're on this tour with the woman

404
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 1: in the Vietnam veteran down to Mexico. Tell me about that.

405
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, we go down to a folk club and

406
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: I don't know. We went and we figured out a

407
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 2: way to take the train to Mexico ally, get and

408
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: go across from Calexico to Mexico ally and take the

409
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: third third class train to Mexico City. That's what our

410
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: and so we missed. We missed the train. We just

411
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: missed it when we got there. So we had to

412
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 2: stay overnight. You couldn't stay in the station. They wouldn't

413
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 2: stay in the station, and through the miracle of miracles,

414
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: the guard for the station said, you can stay in

415
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: the back of my pickup trucks. I had a panel

416
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: truck panel truck, and so he let us. He was

417
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: really friendly and you're nice and and this is about

418
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: all that we found in Mexico when we were there,

419
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: people that were very friendly. So anyway, we eventually again

420
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: on the train the next day, and we have very

421
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: little money, and all we're eating is like what what

422
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: the vendors are selling at every stop, you know, liketo, potato, tacos,

423
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: you know things. And we and by the time we

424
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 2: got to mexic Go City, I think we had twelve

425
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: pesos between three of us. But we managed to get

426
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: to the American Friends Service Committee and told them what

427
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: we were doing for peace, and that they gave us

428
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: some people that we could talk to at the University

429
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: of Mexico and people at people places we could possibly

430
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: stay and and and we went out and we started

431
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 2: went there, met some people, met met an art student

432
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: who was impressed with what we were doing, and people

433
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: took us seriously and it was kind of amazing. And

434
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: Uh offered us that we could stay at his house

435
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: and sleep on. We were sleeping on the floor, but

436
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 2: you know, it was some place to stay. And we'd

437
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: go out in the daytime and and and sit up

438
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 2: in applaza somewhere and leave our guitar cases opens and

439
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: sing and people actually three paytos, and and you know,

440
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess we were okay, I don't know.

441
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: We found a kosher restaurant when sang in Mexico City

442
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: and sang there because she she we knew how aneguila

443
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: and that's you know, anyway, that worked too. And and

444
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: one day a somebody asked us to come sing. What'd

445
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 2: you come and sing at our meeting? Because they liked

446
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: how we sounded. So so okay, we'll come and sing

447
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: at your meeting and go to the meeting. And it's

448
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 2: none of us really spoke Spanish except for restaurants, right,

449
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 2: and so but we could understand uh uh because the

450
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: speaker was was screaming young even period is smooth and

451
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: things like that, and so so well we went along

452
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: with it, you know, and we got up and we

453
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: compared peach Cheeger to peach Cheeger's problem with the government,

454
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: to the muralist Hiciros, who was in jail as a

455
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: political prisoner at the time, and and we're saying, if

456
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: I had a hammer, you know, went across fairly well.

457
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: And then we went back and back to the other

458
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: thing is I smoked pot for the first time in

459
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: Mexico City too. I remember somebody was, okay, keep telling

460
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: the story, which is pretty important in my life. Actually,

461
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was. Anyway, So so anyway, we go

462
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: back to the to the artist's house, wake up in

463
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 2: the morning to banging on the doors, and it's the

464
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: Federal Federal Allays and apparently that was the guy that

465
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: was yelling yanker imperialless was the Cuban ambassador. And they

466
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: drag all of us down down the headquarters, questioned us

467
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: all day, put us in a jail overnight, wake us

468
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: up in the morning, put us in the car, and

469
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: drive us directly up to an amor An Airlines flight.

470
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: Put us on the plane, and somehow we were in

471
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: first class eating mangoes for breakfast. And I don't but

472
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: they send us to San Antonio. I guess it was

473
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: the first plane out. I don't know.

474
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: Okay, so now you're in San Antonio.

475
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: Now we're in San Antonio and Sandy's we're all furious

476
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: about well, what did we do? We sang a song.

477
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: You know this is this is wrong. We got to talk.

478
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: We have to do something about this. Well, Sandy's college

479
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: roommate was Lyndon Johnson's person, personal secretary, personal attorney, I

480
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: mean so, and he's up in Austin. So we hitchhike

481
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: up to Austin and while she's looking for for her

482
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: for her roommate's father, which never really turned turned out

483
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: too much. Michael, Michael Gramleck was this guy's name. And

484
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: we go to the to the student union where the

485
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: the Folk Alliance is is having, you know, their their

486
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: weekly meeting, and with we sing some songs and trade thing.

487
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: And there's this girl with the autoharp and long hair

488
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: and she's singing this beautiful loud voice and she's doing

489
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: Irish murder ballads. And we said, but you know, you're

490
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 2: really great. He says. There is a scene that's happened

491
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: up in San Francisco. If you want to come out, man,

492
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: feel free into the friend that was standing there with her, Uh,

493
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 2: feel free to I mean you can stay in our

494
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: sofa until you find something to do it. You really

495
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: could go somewhere, and and then we then we went

496
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: back to San Francisco, and they did and they showed up. Well.

497
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: The girl was Janis Joplin and the guy was Chet Hilms,

498
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: who opened the Avalon Ballroom, and and Chet used to say,

499
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: if Freiburg hadn't been deported to Mexico, maybe none of

500
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: this would happen.

501
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, So now you're back in San Francisco,

502
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: you go back to work for the railroad for.

503
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: A short amount of time untill I just couldn't take it.

504
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: And I met this we had. I met this girl

505
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: named Mikaela, who we seemed to bond and make could

506
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: sing very well together. I mean she she was left handed,

507
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: so that makes it really good for right handed and

508
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: left handed guitar players to play on one mic, because

509
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: you don't get in any others way like Lennon and mcartney,

510
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: you know. Anyway, So we had worked up a bunch

511
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: of songs, and we had a bunch of stupid, silly,

512
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: funny pattern that went along with it, and we were

513
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: going over with the audiences and in the folk clubs,

514
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: and we managed to little tour and we made it

515
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: down to San Jose and I met a guy that

516
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: was playing good banjo and stuff and loved to smoke

517
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: pot named Paul Cantner, and he was just hanging out

518
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: at the at the folk Club. He was still going

519
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: to San Jose State, I think at the time, and

520
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: I and I stayed at his house whenever we played there,

521
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: and we stay up all night smoking and picking. And

522
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: we worked our way down to Los Angeles and to

523
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Pasadena at the ice House, and we played there, and

524
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: the manager decided he would he would manage us and

525
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: find us gigs. And this had to be sixty three

526
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: because I was there when JFK was was it. Yeah,

527
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: you always remember that. Of course she remembers everywhere there

528
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: were We were right right. But he managed to get

529
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: us out on a tour of various clubs, you know,

530
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: st all over Christmas Week that was Lovely Oklahoma, Chicago, Detroit,

531
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: and we ended up playing at the bottom Line in

532
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: New York City. I think we followed Woody Allen actually,

533
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: and we did our little spiel and he had got

534
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: people record company people to come. What was his name,

535
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: I forgetting who is the doors producer? Paul was Paul

536
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: Rothchild and he was electure records, and he was there

537
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: and he called. He gave us a phone call, and

538
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: we went in, went in to see him in his

539
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: office and he says he told us, he actually told

540
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: us this. He says, let me tell you, folks, songs

541
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: are not going to last much longer than this new

542
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: group from England. I said, what group from England? He

543
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: said to Beatles, He says, they're never going to make it.

544
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: He says, but I could get you in one like

545
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: the new Christie minstrels, maybe these big things. Maybe I

546
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: could get you guys in one of those. What would

547
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: you think of that? And we thought about it and said, well,

548
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe. And I hadn't heard the Beatles yet.

549
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: And we're driving down and we're driving down to Washington,

550
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: DC for our last East Coast thing, and the Beatles

551
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: come on. The I Want to Hold Your Hand comes

552
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: on and it knocked us out. What was he talking about?

553
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: You know? And uh? And that was just funny things

554
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: that happened. And when we got to Denver on our

555
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: way home, the Beatles played on Ed Sullivan and we

556
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: saw that and I could see this was done. And

557
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: Michaela and her husband when they got married. He was

558
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 2: playing bass with us. It's called David Michaela with Bob

559
00:34:54,520 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 2: Conker on bass and wit you know, really schlocky, but

560
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 2: they laughed at it. He made the face at the

561
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: right time, they'd laugh. So they when they got married,

562
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: they stopped smoking pot and thought that I should too,

563
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: and it wasn't going to happen. Their sense of humor changed.

564
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: So and so, and I got there, and I just

565
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 2: got back to San Jose and hooked up with Paul

566
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: and he had a little like communal thing in the house.

567
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: And I stayed there and we decided we were going

568
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: to go to La and see if we could be

569
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: folked to it. That might be fun. But and so

570
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: we got down there and with the help of the girl,

571
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 2: the secretary of the man, the guy at the Bob

572
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: I think his name is Bob Shane, that the manager

573
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: of the ice house in Pasadena. She was she but

574
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: Laurie I think her name is Laurie Spring. And she

575
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: helped us find a place to live and actually ended

576
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,959
Speaker 2: up sharing it with us because she needed a place

577
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: to And it was in Venice, like four doors from

578
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: the beach, which is pretty good but not conduced it

579
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: to and and the whole. I mean that time was

580
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: not the time to be forming a folk group. It

581
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: was a time to be forming a rock and roll band.

582
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: And David Crosby I had run into him there and

583
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: in uh at the ice House when his was Les

584
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: Baxter's Balladeers. It was the folk group he was in.

585
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: He and his brother were in it. And we just vibe,

586
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: says to tout know that we both we know we

587
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: must both must have smoked so and so I was

588
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: fast friends with him from then on. So and he

589
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: would come by our place while he's bumming around, and

590
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: he still didn't And Jim Jim, it was Jim McGuinn

591
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: who was who was playing Beatles songs in the bar

592
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 2: outside at the Troubadour all night long and for me

593
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: trying to form a band. And but meanwhile we're living there.

594
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: And Dino Valenti, who was a singer, folks singer that

595
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: I had met in San Francisco when I was singing

596
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: with MICHAELA and stuff. And he comes by and he

597
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: has this a lead sheet for this song called Pride

598
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: of Man, which by Hamilton Camp and uh, and he

599
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: gives it to me because he doesn't he didn't read

600
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: music and he couldn't figure it out. So anyway, so

601
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: that that was just it ended up being quick still

602
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 2: or messenger service first first single, I believe anyway, that's

603
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: jumping around a little bit.

604
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: No, that's perfect. I just got a question. Yeah, did

605
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: you know when he was Jet Powers before he was

606
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: Dino Valente?

607
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: No, he was always Dino Valenti. I mean I knew

608
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: that he was Jet Power. I learned that from him.

609
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he hung up. He was the

610
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: kind of guy. I mean, if you could do something

611
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 2: for him, he'd be your friend, you know, and so

612
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: I could drive him. I just kind of was interested

613
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 2: in him because he was he was such a all

614
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: out guy. I mean, you know when he's singing, man,

615
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: you're stomping and you know, and I said, well that

616
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 2: that's a hell of an act. That and I probably

617
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: learned a little bit about singing, and I learned about

618
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: a lot of things not to do, you know. But

619
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: he wrote some pretty damn good songs.

620
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: Okay, you're living in Venice with Paul Canner and the

621
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: woman Dino Valenti comes through. What's the next step for you?

622
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: After that?

623
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: Uh, shortly after that, we figured out this isn't working, yea,

624
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: and moved back to San Jose and with somebody who

625
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: had opened up the what was it called the off

626
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: Stage was the folk club in San Jose and had

627
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: taken it over and wondered if we would help him

628
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: run it, and so, okay, there's something to do. So

629
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: we did that, and we stayed, you know, in this

630
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: in the Santa se area for a while and did

631
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: that and tried to make that work, and it ultimately

632
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: went the way of all the folk clubs and and

633
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: so we ended up moving to the city and we

634
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 2: were kind of, I don't know, we might have dealt

635
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: a little a little pot just so we had some

636
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: to smoke, but it definitely didn't make us any money.

637
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 2: But one day I'm driving in San Francisco. We moved

638
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: into a flat in the Fillmore district, right across from

639
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: one of the biggest notorious badass tenement thing as you

640
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: could imagine. And I was driving around and I turned

641
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: made a left turn and I didn't realize it was

642
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 2: it was after four o'clock and there's no left turns,

643
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: and I make the left turn and I get busted.

644
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: The guy looks fine, pot under the seat, and I

645
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: go off to jail and a girlfriend I had bailed

646
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: me got my bail out, and and I felt, God,

647
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: what am I going to do? Man? I don't want

648
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: I don't want to call attention by if I live

649
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 2: with these people, it might hurt them because I never

650
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: consider getting arrested, right, you know, because I don't know.

651
00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: I was naive. I guess was this pot dude? Man,

652
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: you have a good time note anybody you know? Yeah,

653
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 2: But they were serious about it. So so I thought, well,

654
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: I'll get a straight job, and so I look good,

655
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: maybe they'll be. So I got a job at a

656
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: freight forwarding company and I moved out, and after a

657
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: couple of couple of about a month of paychecks, I

658
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: managed to get a place in Merin County, and the

659
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: little house in San Quentin Village overlooked the Sandrafell Bridge.

660
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: And I go to work and I do my my

661
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: letters and forums and stuff and hating it every second,

662
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 2: and go back across the bridge every night, get stoned

663
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: and get out my twelfth drink and figure out how

664
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: to play all the Beatles songs you know, and sing

665
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: them at the time of my voice to the Sandrafell Bridge.

666
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: You know. And I did that for like a month,

667
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: two months, you know, And one day there's a knock

668
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: on the door and it's a friend, a loose friend

669
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: called Otis, and he says, hey, you got any pot,

670
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: And I said, sure, I got some seeds and stems.

671
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 2: Come on in, you know, and I said, here, help yourself.

672
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: And by the way, listen to this, I said. So

673
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 2: I had an audience for me. So I sang them

674
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: all the Beatles songs. And he was just sitting there

675
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 2: and look at visioning and saying, and he says, he says,

676
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 2: okay about the pot, He said, can I get you?

677
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 2: Can I get ten dollars worth? And I said, look,

678
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: I don't think this is ten dollars worth here, man,

679
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 2: it's just mostly sees. Take it all, forget it, you know.

680
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: And he says, no, no, no, no, take five. I said,

681
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: well take it anyway. I'll take the five. Okay. He

682
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 2: leaves and the next day there's a knock on the door.

683
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: The next night and it's the state narcotics officer and

684
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 2: the sheriff and the district attorney, and apparently they were

685
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: trying to he told he told them that I was

686
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: his dealer and I had never sold him anything, you know,

687
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: And I said, and the ten dollar bill was marked

688
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: five dollar bill was his, so they couldn't get me

689
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: on sales. But they arrested me for possession and they

690
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: found seeds in the trunk of my car, which made

691
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: them to confiscate my car, took me off to jail,

692
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: and I and I I couldn't ask the girlfriend for

693
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 2: anymore bail. And I, you know, I probably had enough

694
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: money coming to me from my last paycheck from from

695
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: from the place to pay to pay them on. But

696
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: nobody to hunt to, nobody that had any property enough

697
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: that would, you know, to guarantee it. And so I

698
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: was stuck there. I was sat in there for thirty

699
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: days and Paul comes and visits me.

700
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, before Paul visits you, what's it like being

701
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: a nice Jewish boy in jail.

702
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: In Santrafel, California. It was not any real big deal.

703
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't nice or anything, you know, And

704
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: it was It wasn't in the beautiful new building that

705
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: they have out there. It was in the old courthouse

706
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: in the middle of Santafel. And I kind of probably

707
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: went back to the Civil War as far as I

708
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 2: know when it was a built but and and so

709
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: I don't know if they made They took me out

710
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: of the general population, made me a trustee. So I

711
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: was sitting. I don't know why they did that, because

712
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: be a trustee, you're supposed to be convicted of something.

713
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: And I hadn't even gone to trial yet, so anybody

714
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: but I was there, you know, with I don't know

715
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: the elite people, I guess of the jail. And Paul

716
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: comes to visit me and he notices there's a little

717
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: hole in the ancient window and he slides a little

718
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: joint through there. And meanwhile I was telling me, me

719
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 2: and Marty Ballad are getting it. We're going to put

720
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: a band together, which is what all of us were

721
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 2: thinking about, because we had all bought, you know, electric

722
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: instruments because we knew that was where we had to

723
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 2: go if we wanted to sing anywhere. And he says, he, well,

724
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: that's that's really great. So what And he says, I

725
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 2: think we're going to call it Jefferson Airplane. And I

726
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: didn't ask him what that meant, but I said, that's perfect,

727
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, I would be able. I hope

728
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: you get out of here soon I said, well, I

729
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: don't know, I trust I will and uh. And so

730
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: shortly thereafter they I had to go to a court appearance,

731
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: and they decided, well, if you're not going to get bail,

732
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: we don't want to get stuck feeding you for two years.

733
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 2: So they you don't look dangerous, so they just let

734
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: me out of my own recognizance and they i'me out

735
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 2: in the streets, and some friends had gotten my guitar

736
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: and everything from the house, and my check was there,

737
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: but of course I lost my job, and and so

738
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: I'm there and I MC John Chippolina and Jimmy Murray

739
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 2: and I were already trying kind of had the idea

740
00:46:53,520 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: that Dina was looking to form a band. I think

741
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: he through Dino could probably it was just loosely. I

742
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: had met him and and they and I don't know,

743
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 2: and we were hanging out. I had no place to stay.

744
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: I was sleeping on people on girls floors and stuff,

745
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 2: you know, anywhere I could sleep, and Dino was in jail,

746
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: so we had to do something else. So we said, well,

747
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: let's I guess we'll have our own band, you know.

748
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: And so we were hanging out in the park and

749
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: saucelito and pick and sing, and you know a lot

750
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: of people were doing that. And there was this guitar

751
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 2: player named Skip came down and and we played with

752
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: him and said this, this could work, This could work

753
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 2: because Jim he fit in pretty well, good looking kid,

754
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: he and he played nice guitar and sang really well.

755
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: So we took Paul up. Marty Ballen was opened had

756
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: opened the Matrix Club in San Francisco where the Jefferson

757
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: Airplane rehearsed, and Paul and Marty said, you know, you

758
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: guys come over and practice here sometimes if you get

759
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: something together. And so we went over there with a

760
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: guy named Casey who was a jazz drummer. We just

761
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,959
Speaker 2: got some big sticks. That's the thing that you could play,

762
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 2: you know, rock and roll, And we bought Skip over

763
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: and we tried to tried to do some stuff and

764
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: it wasn't really working too well. And Marty walked in

765
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 2: and he said to Skip, do you play drums? He said,

766
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: I played snare drum in high school. I played snare

767
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: drum in the high school band. And he said, you're

768
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 2: Jefferson Airplane's new drummer, and he was Skip Spence, Skip spence. Yep, next,

769
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 2: what next? What's going to happen? Is all of a sudden,

770
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 2: that first bust is going to come up for trial,

771
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: and so I have and I go over there and

772
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 2: they find me guilty and sentenced me to a sixty

773
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: day sentence in San Bruno Prison in San Francisco, and

774
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: I have two weeks to get my stuff together and

775
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 2: turn myself in at police orcer headquarters in San Francisco.

776
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 2: And so John and Jimmy and I are turning to

777
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: fair what are we going to do? And I said, well,

778
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 2: it's only sixty days, so I get I'll get out

779
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: of there probably, and if I behave well, I'll get

780
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: out a little earlier than that. So I'll see you laters.

781
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 2: But meanwhile, I took some acid on the day night

782
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 2: before I had to turn myself in and met a

783
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 2: girl named named Tangerine who I'd known, and we had

784
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: a really good time. And as I'm turning myself in,

785
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: I'm still stone quite a bit. And the door I

786
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: take to take the elevator up from the ground floor

787
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: to the to the jail floor, and I pushed the

788
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: jail button and the door closes, and then it opens

789
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: and nobody's there. I said, I push it again. The

790
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: door closes and then it opens. Nobody's there. What am

791
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: I If it does it again, I'm going to take

792
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: that as an omen and just leave. I push the button,

793
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: it closes and it goes up. And so that's and

794
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 2: on on the TVs in the jail there there's the

795
00:50:53,280 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: Turtles playing Ellinorgy. You're looking swell. So I don't know

796
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: as little as I didn't know that drummer was getting anyway,

797
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 2: So off the sand, off to San Bruno, and they

798
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: want me to cut my hair or else I'll have

799
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 2: to stay with the gay guys. And I said, well,

800
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: probably I should have stayed with the gay guys. But

801
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: I cut my hair, and and somehow, because I seemed

802
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 2: kind of harmless, they made me a trustee again and

803
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: I could I could lock myself and when they're in

804
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: a free time, then I had I had a cell

805
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: that look look was right, so you could see the

806
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: TV set, the one TV set for everybody right was there.

807
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: And so but they locked you in to that, I said,

808
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 2: well that looked like a plus to me, to be

809
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: locked in, not being able to talk, you know, in

810
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 2: interact with anybody else, and so I did that. And

811
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: uh and in forty five days I got out and

812
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: they had took me back, raced me at at city Hall.

813
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 2: Had to go up and see my my uh, probation guy,

814
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: and but he was not he was out to lunch.

815
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: So I had had to come back in two hours.

816
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: So John Chippolina and Jimmy Murray were picking me up,

817
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 2: you know, and and uh, and they told me that

818
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: they found two They found two guys from merced Or

819
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: they thought he were for mer said or, I don't know,

820
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 2: modesto and a drummer and another guitar player. And and

821
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: I think that we could have a band with them,

822
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 2: and I said great. And so we all smoked a bunch.

823
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: Finally got to smoke a little pot. Well, yeah, that

824
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 2: was what that was what I did every day and

825
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: not in jail though, But and uh, so I go

826
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: up and he says, he says, you know, the probation

827
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: officer says, I know there's nothing wrong with pot. I

828
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: know it should be legal, but it isn't. So I

829
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 2: wanted you to understand, to take it more seriously. So

830
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 2: I gave you this little sentence so you so you'd understand.

831
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 2: So so just stay away from that stuff. I said,

832
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I'll never get to touch a stone out

833
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: of my mind. But and so I go back down

834
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 2: and it's Gary Duncan and Greg Alamore, the other guys

835
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: from for Quicksellar Messenger Service. We start practicing and the

836
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 2: basement of some a girl, a girl's house named after

837
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 2: her name was Chris Brooks, and so she thought she'd

838
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: be our manager or whatever, and and that's and so

839
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 2: we get it together and we come up with the

840
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: Quicksilver Messenger Service thing because John Okay, Gary Duncan, and

841
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 2: Gregor mare Elmore or virgos born on the seventh of September,

842
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,439
Speaker 2: John Chipley and I were virgos born on the same day,

843
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: twenty fourth of August. And Jimmy Murray, who he didn't

844
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: really last all the way to Soil. We made the records,

845
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: but there's too much work for him. I think he

846
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 2: was a Gemini, and we all had the ruling planet

847
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: of Mercury, which is quicksilver, and he's the mess So

848
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,959
Speaker 2: we all came and it was me or Murray something

849
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: I came Quicksilver Messenger Service. That seems ridiculous, but it

850
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 2: sounded good to us. So there we are.

851
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you got the band together, when do you start

852
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: playing out? How does it end up that you end

853
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: up getting a record deal.

854
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 2: It took us a long time, a really long time,

855
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 2: but the committee gave us our first gig. You remember

856
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 2: the company, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Howard Hessemen. Yeah, well I

857
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: knew Howard. I was an old buddy from when he

858
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: was a folks when I was a folcusinger. I used

859
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: to sleep on his floor every now, you know. And

860
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: he was a bartender at at the at the coffee

861
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: gallery for his day gig. And uh so anyway, uh so,

862
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: they I think they gave us one hundred bucks to

863
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: come play their Christmas party and that was fairly successful.

864
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 2: And they said, we wondered if we'd record a version

865
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: of the Star Spangled Banner. And we found somebody and

866
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: we did that, and we moved to Marine County somehow

867
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 2: with in an old shack in Larkspur. No longer there.

868
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: It's all built up into nice things now. And we

869
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 2: just played all day and night, smoked and played, smoked

870
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: and played, you know, and had some some hippie hippie

871
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: managers that brought us lots of health food. You know,

872
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: all in one cereal and lots of you know, organic honey,

873
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 2: and we had food to eat and and we we got,

874
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 2: we got. We started getting gigs at the Avalon and

875
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 2: I met my first my next wife there, which was

876
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: Julia Dreyer, who was known as Girl, and she was

877
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: hanging with us too. And there's lots of stories.

878
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you're living in Larkspur.

879
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 2: It's gonna get too detailed.

880
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: The hippies are giving you, you know food, What are

881
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: you living on? You know, you don't know. You don't

882
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: have a regular job, no straight job.

883
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: We got occasional gigs and people would help us.

884
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what was going through your mind.

885
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 2: That this was really fun when we played, you know,

886
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: and they didn't have a I had never played bass before,

887
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 2: but somebody had to and so since I had played

888
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 2: twelve string, I don't know what that had to do

889
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 2: with it, but I played bass, and so I was

890
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: figuring that out and we played. We learned a bunch

891
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 2: of songs, folks songs, but Pride to Man among them,

892
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: and it all sounded good. We started playing at the

893
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: fillmore in the Avalon, and we got a pretty good following.

894
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit slower. You remember the opening in

895
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: the film, wore the opening of the Avalon and what

896
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: that was like?

897
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 2: Not particularly No.

898
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: Okay, Then let me ask you another one. How about

899
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: Ken Keezy the Mary Prankster's Acid. Was that something that

900
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: was on your radar?

901
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, we were well that had to

902
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: be on everybody's radar if you were anywhere in San Francisco.

903
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: Sure I knew knew all of those guys. I mean

904
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: we were all buddy, I mean we all came to

905
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 2: see each other play The Grateful Dead and Greick Silver

906
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: and Airplane and a Big Brother and Holding Company where

907
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: they're there, Hello Janis again, thank you? Okay.

908
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: First band to have a hit out of the San

909
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: Francisco scene was the Jefferson Airplane in sixty seven. So

910
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: did you feel left downery feel if they can make it?

911
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: We can make it?

912
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: But everybody thought they could make it. But I don't know.

913
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: We're playing and we have a We have a manager

914
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: who was an astrologer. His name was Amber Ambrose Hollingsworth.

915
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: And as soon as he became our manager, he somehow

916
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: managed to find a Volkswagen convertible and all of a

917
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: sudden he was wearing the latest clothes from you know,

918
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: from the Los Angeles hippies were wearing and we to

919
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: call behind back. We were calling Ambrose Hollywood, you know.

920
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: But that was too bad. But unfortunately he got into

921
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 2: this accident that left him paralyzed, driving driving over the

922
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 2: driving over the bridge. And a and a friend of

923
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: and a friend of a guy named Ron Polti who

924
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: is the friend friend of Nick Gravinidis who played with uh,

925
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 2: Mike Bloomfield and the Electric Flag. Okay, he's from the

926
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 2: Chicago the Chicago guys. He did. He decides he'd like

927
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 2: to be our manager, and they said, well, what do

928
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: you need? He said, I think at that point we

929
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: were living in a house that was right in the

930
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: middle of Mill Valley, which was right out in the

931
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 2: open and terrible place to try to rehearse or anything.

932
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: And so we want to have a hot we want

933
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: to be on a farm with with the barn we

934
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: can practice in. And in a week he had us

935
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: in a barn we could practice it in Olema, which

936
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 2: is out of near Point Ray Station. And the Grateful

937
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: Dead had had what used to be a children's summer

938
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 2: camp in Lagunitas, not you know, down the road from

939
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 2: where we were, and they moved in there for the

940
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 2: summer and they were practicing there. And so one day

941
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 2: we were cleaning some pot in a big bowl, and

942
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: all of a sudden we hear a bunch of whooping

943
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: outside and it's grateful dead dressed like Indians. It's because

944
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 2: we were the cowboys living on the ranch and they

945
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: the war Path come in and attack us, and so

946
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 2: we all thought that was really funny, and get around

947
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 2: and everybody gets gets stoned, and yaki aka yaka, that's funny, okay.

948
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 2: And then they go home. And meanwhile Dino was there.

949
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: He wasn't in the band, but he's hung with us

950
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: a bunch, and he said, you know what we should do.

951
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 2: We should practice up Elijah was a wooden Indian and

952
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 2: sing this song. And then when they're playing at the

953
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: fillmore dress up in cowboy things with bandanas over our

954
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 2: faces and guns and tie them to their amps in

955
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: Saint Elijah was a wooden Indian. And everybody thought that's

956
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 2: a wonderful idea. I don't know why they thought that,

957
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: but it ended up getting us busted again, because you know,

958
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 2: I mean, John Chippolina had ancient some ancient rifles that

959
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 2: were most of them were let it up, but they

960
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: were just collectors items, you know. He liked old things

961
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 2: and so that was part of it. So we had

962
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 2: a panel truck that was our equipment truck and quotes,

963
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 2: and so we dragged off. We get to to the

964
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: fillmore and the airplane's going over and so Grateful Dead

965
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 2: aren't quite on yet and so we had to say, okay.

966
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 2: So we throw all the stuff in the back of

967
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 2: the truck and there's smoke, a few joints, and all

968
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 2: of a sudden there's door open. Front door opens it

969
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 2: and there's a revolver pointing it and we thought it

970
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: was probably one of the other guys with the phony gun.

971
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 2: Look at no, it's real and it was the police.

972
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 2: Uh oh. And they grabbed me and girl and Jimmy

973
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: Murray out of the back that we were the eyes

974
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 2: that were there. Throw us in the back of the policeman. Well,

975
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 2: they're going to search the truck. And I had some

976
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 2: joints in my pocket, but Jimmy had stashed it under

977
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 2: his gig stuff under something and then the truck, which

978
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 2: is the wrong thing to do, but he did. And

979
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 2: he said they're going to find joints in there, man,

980
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 2: and they're going to find it. And I said, well, well,

981
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 2: everybody's got to help me. We got to eat all

982
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 2: we got to eat all the spots. So we eat

983
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 2: all the pot because they had they had Jimmy Or

984
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: he was six foot four, so they handcuffed him, but

985
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 2: girl and me they didn't handcuff because we were they

986
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 2: didn'tren't worry too much about us, and so we did that.

987
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: And then they ship us off the tail overnight and

988
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 2: we're out first thing in the morning, and uh and

989
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 2: they are they arrest once again. They found pot in

990
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: this in this vehicle. They're gonna confiscate it and sell it.

991
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 2: And the guy that owned the owned the owned the

992
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 2: van said, if they try to toe that, I never

993
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 2: I never really fastened the drive shaft in, so it's

994
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 2: going to fall out. And so I don't think they're

995
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 2: never going to be able to sell it. And so okay,

996
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 2: And so meanwhile there's this lawyer named Brian Rohan. I

997
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 2: don't know if you've come across.

998
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: I used to email from him. Yeah before he passed away, yep, yeah,

999
01:04:58,080 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: yeah yeah.

1000
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 2: And uh so he decided he represented us and got

1001
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 2: us out immediately immediately and decided they were going to

1002
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: make an example of it, and they were going to

1003
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 2: try the truck and every vehicle that came across their desk.

1004
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 2: They were going to make them go to you know,

1005
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 2: they're going to fight it as long as they could

1006
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 2: and make it cost so much money for them for

1007
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 2: them to do that they'd stop it. And at worked

1008
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 2: they did stop confiscating us. So anyway, so one day

1009
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: we went went out went to the to the to

1010
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: the the auction for the cars for the state at

1011
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 2: Saint Quentin, actually right outside Saint Quentin, and there was

1012
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 2: there was the van with the drive shaft in the back,

1013
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 2: and we bought back for fifty bucks and a guy

1014
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 2: put the drive shaft back in drove away. So anyway,

1015
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,439
Speaker 2: Little Tails, I'm remembering much too much.

1016
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no, it's all good. This is cold.

1017
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: How does the band ultimately get a record deal with Capitol?

1018
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 2: I think the president came by and saw us one

1019
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: night when we played at a fair gig, and he

1020
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 2: liked us. But it was just like nineteen six, I

1021
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 2: mean we were really late. I mean this was sixty

1022
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 2: seven and we still hadn't signed you know, right, And

1023
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: he said, we'll think about it, And meanwhile, Monterey Pop

1024
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 2: is happening, and we get invited to it, even though

1025
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 2: we had didn't have any record or anything. But so

1026
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 2: far as San Francisco was concerned, I mean, people would

1027
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 2: come to see us just as much as they'd go

1028
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,479
Speaker 2: see the Big Brother or Jefferson Airplane or the Dead

1029
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: or anything, because they all liked us as much as anything,

1030
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, that was all equal in

1031
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: San Francisco. But go out in the road, well that

1032
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 2: was another thing. So we'd have to have a record

1033
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: for that. So we realized we better do this sometime

1034
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 2: and so but meanwhile we did get to go to Monterey.

1035
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 2: That was probably the best festival that ever happened. I think,

1036
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 2: best one I ever saw.

1037
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: Okay, and then how do you end up getting signed

1038
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 1: and making the first album?

1039
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 2: Then he went for it and gave us a pretty

1040
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 2: good deal. Apparently it was not smooth sailing, of course,

1041
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 2: because it was Quicksilver Messengers, But we went down and

1042
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 2: recorded with the same Nick Nick Nick Gravin. I just

1043
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: wanted to do it. And Harvey Brooks, who was the

1044
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 2: bass player, well really famous bass player, played on all

1045
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 2: the Bob del and stuff, and he.

1046
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: Played in al Cooper in Super Session Harvey's.

1047
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 2: Two and he was it was in the Electric Flag.

1048
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: Was really close to our managers, you know. I think

1049
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 2: he gave him the flag that had an electric thing,

1050
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 2: and that was the elect caused the name to happen,

1051
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 2: the Electric Flag. Okay, So anyway, where was I? Okay?

1052
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: So he and Harvey Brooks are trying to do it,

1053
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 2: get us do it, and we had this long song

1054
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 2: that we wanted to get on the albums called the Fool.

1055
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 2: And I had written the words when I apparently when

1056
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 2: I was high on acid, because when I woke up

1057
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 2: in the morning that after the acid chip, I looked

1058
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: at my typewriter and there were the words. I must

1059
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 2: have typed it out, and I said, this sounded like me, So,

1060
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 2: you know, very very hippish, very very very one world,

1061
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 2: you know. And we had the song, this bunch of

1062
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 2: changes that we were turning into a very big thing,

1063
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 2: and when we played it, it got a lot of

1064
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 2: a lot of very good reactions. So we tried to

1065
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 2: do that and it went pretty good, except for the

1066
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 2: long one. Because Gary decided he had been We've been

1067
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 2: watching how the Beatles did things one track at a time,

1068
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 2: and he wanted to do it that way, and it

1069
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 2: just when we heard the final result, we said no,

1070
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 2: we got to do it live, play it all at once,

1071
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 2: and we had complete commit The contract was good because

1072
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 2: we could do whatever we really wanted to do, so

1073
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 2: we could we didn't have to put it out until

1074
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: we were done with it. But Harvey said, I've spent

1075
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 2: enough time on this. I have other things I have

1076
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 2: to do, so he left it with Nick and I

1077
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 2: think there was a jazz critic named Pete Welding who

1078
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:54,440
Speaker 2: ended up being the nominal co producer with Nick Revenitis.

1079
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,679
Speaker 2: But anyway, so we went back and we actually rehearsed

1080
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 2: it in the studio a couple of months that figured

1081
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 2: out how we really wanted to do it, and played

1082
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 2: it on the road a bit, and then went back

1083
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 2: and finished the record and it finally came out in

1084
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 2: sixty eight, which is really late.

1085
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so the record gets good reviews, what's your experience

1086
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: being in the band? Does it? Does sales meet your expectation?

1087
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 1: Or you're disappointed there's not a hit? What happens there?

1088
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there wasn't. Actually the only actual hit was was

1089
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 2: the full really, but it was too long to be

1090
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 2: to be really get played on the radio, so and

1091
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: it couldn't have been and it couldn't be edited down

1092
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 2: to anything because it wasn't a pop song. It was

1093
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 2: this big production. And anyway, Gary Duncan was when we

1094
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: went out on the road, he started he started shooting methodrym,

1095
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 2: which was disastrous. He's got completely completely paranoid, you know,

1096
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 2: and everybody was against him and played okay, played too

1097
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 2: many notes, but you know, uh, and he ended up

1098
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 2: quitting the band right after we had recorded live in

1099
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 2: at the Fillmore East and the Fillmore West. What was

1100
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 2: going to be our We were going to record a

1101
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 2: live album for the next thing, and he decides he's

1102
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 2: gonna he's gonna quit, and so well we decided, well

1103
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 2: we want to record one last thing. So we had

1104
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 2: one last session and we go into the studio. We

1105
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,440
Speaker 2: played our song that turned out to be called Calvary.

1106
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 2: But the guy had an idea for the for the title,

1107
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 2: and he was watching us there. He was going to

1108
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 2: make the album cover and he said, well, see that,

1109
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: nobody's talking to each other and it's all and Duncan's

1110
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 2: fucked up and you know, and he said, wow, it

1111
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 2: looks like Happy Trails to me, and uh, oh yeah,

1112
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 2: a good name for the album. Okay, I you know,

1113
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,799
Speaker 2: I refuse to get negative because he's gonna leave. Something's

1114
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 2: going to happen. I don't know. He shouldn't leave because

1115
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 2: he was he was a great rhythm guitar player and

1116
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 2: a great and a great lead guitar player too, and

1117
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 2: he was really good and and he was kind of

1118
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 2: like the machine of the band. But we're going to

1119
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 2: have to do something, and so he leaves, and so

1120
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 2: it was left for us to finish the album without him,

1121
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 2: and so we did. We finished the Calvary song and

1122
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 2: uh recorded Happy Trails with Greg Ellenmore singing the only

1123
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 2: only song he's ever sung just as a joke at

1124
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 2: the end, and uh, and we end up with the

1125
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 2: who Do You Love Sweet? On the first side and

1126
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 2: with the combination of the beginning was from the New

1127
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 2: York Fillmore, the middle part was from San Francisco Fillmore,

1128
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,560
Speaker 2: where the whole audience in the band and everybody and

1129
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 2: anywhere within blocks was all stoned on acid. And the

1130
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:25,719
Speaker 2: end I believe we probably might have used the Fillmore East,

1131
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 2: but maybe not maybe maybe at all. At the mid

1132
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 2: midway part has shifted to San Francisco, and it took

1133
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 2: up the whole first side, and it was the biggest

1134
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 2: selling record you made.

1135
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: How on the third album does Dino Valente come in

1136
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: and Nicky Hopkins.

1137
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 2: Well it was Dino didn't come in the third album

1138
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 2: was the fourth album? Okay, Nicki came in on the

1139
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 2: third right, Well, they quit on New York. They played

1140
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 2: their last gig on Gary played his last gig on

1141
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: New Year's Eve and ended up coming back the next

1142
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 2: New Year's Eve. So we had a year. I don't Nicki.

1143
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 2: Nicki was in town. I think he'd played with on

1144
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: Steve Miller's album. Then he played on Jefferson Airplanes album

1145
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 2: and we had one we were coming up next at

1146
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 2: Wally Hyder's. And he had a very an affinity with

1147
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 2: John Chippelina. He really they were really hit it off.

1148
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,480
Speaker 2: They were if you want to go to stop astrologically,

1149
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 2: he was. He was the obsolete opposite of me and John.

1150
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 2: He was born on February twenty fourth, which is exactly

1151
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 2: six months apart. So anyway, they were they were very

1152
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: much alike. Hell, they both collected things and I don't

1153
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 2: know that. They just they became. So he decided he

1154
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 2: joined Quicksilver. So we made this album with NICKI.

1155
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: How did you feel about him joining? How did you

1156
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: feel about the album.

1157
01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 2: Got him joining? Yeah, he saved us, he said, I

1158
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 2: never I never got very happy about the songs I

1159
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:09,600
Speaker 2: sang on that album. But there there are people that

1160
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:15,799
Speaker 2: love them. But I don't quite understand. But but everybody

1161
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 2: tells it. It's everybody. Every singer is his own worst,

1162
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:24,839
Speaker 2: worse critic, you know. So I'll never be satisfied with anything.

1163
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: So okay, the next album, Dino comes in, how does

1164
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: he get into the band?

1165
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 2: Came back the next next year, but I wanted to

1166
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 2: get Gary back in the band, and Dino came with him. Well,

1167
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 2: he said, I know that's going to be trouble because

1168
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 2: Dino has to run things. I mean, he doesn't know

1169
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 2: anything else. He can't cooperate with anybody. So I knew

1170
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 2: him by then and said, well, oh well, let's see

1171
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 2: what happens. So the first thing was that we're gonna

1172
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 2: We're gonna record an album in Hawaii. That sounded like

1173
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 2: a wonderful thing to do because he wanted to go

1174
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 2: to Hawaii. I guess, I don't know. There was no

1175
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 2: real studio that we could record them and over there.

1176
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 2: So we're going to build it. And Capitol had given

1177
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:26,600
Speaker 2: us an eight track to work with, and so the

1178
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 2: plan was made. I wasn't very big part of that,

1179
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 2: but the plan was made. There was this old boy

1180
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:38,480
Speaker 2: scout ranch way out in the out Holai Eva on Oahu,

1181
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 2: out for a bunch of cane fields, and it was

1182
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 2: a boy scout ranch and they had a big, nice,

1183
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 2: big room and enough places for everybody to stay, and

1184
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 2: it was pretty cheap. It only had one drawback. It

1185
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 2: didn't have electricity, but we say, oh well we'll get it.

1186
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 2: We'll get a generator. You know, no problem, they have generators.

1187
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 2: And so we get we get over there, everybody comes

1188
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 2: over and every every and Dino is really happy. You know,

1189
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 2: he's going to live it up. Man. We're in a

1190
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 2: big time band, man, you know. And so everybody gets

1191
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 2: a convertible and and we get there and they cannot

1192
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,600
Speaker 2: get a good ground on that, on that anywhere on

1193
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 2: the property they keep there. They couldn't get the ground.

1194
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 2: So you record something and going that'd be a huge

1195
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 2: buzz on everything. And they couldn't get it ground It

1196
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 2: took him two weeks to get it grounded. Right. So

1197
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 2: we're sitting there renting cars, and we sit there and

1198
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:53,679
Speaker 2: waste two weeks. We have a rented beautiful grand piano,

1199
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 2: and you know, and what was going to be the

1200
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 2: it was it was really the kind of the living area,

1201
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 2: you know, in the living room area, and we built,

1202
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 2: we had a we had a little little control room,

1203
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 2: and it was it would work fine. And eventually it

1204
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 2: did work okay, And but it was crazy Dena wouldn't

1205
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 2: let any wives go over there. That he made the rules. See,

1206
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 2: no wives were allowed to go with us.

1207
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: So that album is known for fresh air. Have another

1208
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: hit of fresh Air? Yeah, you know it ends up

1209
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: being a different band now with Dino in it.

1210
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 2: Yes it does. And I kind of knew that, but

1211
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. I didn't. I didn't want to be

1212
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 2: in that band without Gary. And then, as it turns out,

1213
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 2: before we left Hawaii, Ron Poulte our manager, Quiz, Tohn

1214
01:18:55,760 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 2: Ceppelina Quiz and Nicki Quitz, and I say, well, if

1215
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 2: I quit, there won't be any I don't want to be,

1216
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 2: you know, And so I say I'll stick around for

1217
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 2: a year. If nothing happens, I'm out of here. I mean,

1218
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 2: if I'm not doing something, you know, and nothing happened.

1219
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 2: I mean we we got another album probably out of

1220
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that the next one that came out,

1221
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 2: I think it had what About Me on it, right,

1222
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 2: which was which was a pretty good song. I like

1223
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 2: that song. I like to sing that song. That's a

1224
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 2: good song. But I could see nothing was happening anyway.

1225
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 2: I ended up Mike, excuse another pot bust is coming up.

1226
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 2: So they always ends up good though, you know, first

1227
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: one ended up I had, I got the band.

1228
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened with the second boss?

1229
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 2: It was dismissed Byron Rohan got it dismissed. So I

1230
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 2: never but you know, it got me out of the

1231
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 2: job where I was wasting my time. Really, you know,

1232
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 2: it wasn't going to help me get anywhere or do

1233
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: anything that I could do. I could end up being

1234
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 2: a clerk for the rest of my life. But I

1235
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 2: really wanted to sing and play, you know. So it

1236
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 2: put me into Quicksilver. Actually, and and this next one

1237
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 2: handily gets me out of Quicksilver.

1238
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 1: So now you don't have a band. What's the plan?

1239
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, that was an entertaining bus too, but that gets

1240
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 2: boring talking about bus, so let's get that. Uh. First

1241
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 2: thing I did was I got out my base wanted

1242
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 2: to play a little bit. So there's this band called

1243
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 2: the Asa Cups that a girl, all girl band, and

1244
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 2: they had another and they had formed a different thing,

1245
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 2: and they wanted to wonder if I'd played bass because

1246
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 2: their bass player had stopped them. So I just did

1247
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 2: it for a couple of few months, and I started

1248
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 2: hanging out with Mickey Hart from the From the Dead.

1249
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 2: He hadn't ranch in Nevado, that's you know, you know,

1250
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 2: a couple of miles away from me, and I started

1251
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:31,839
Speaker 2: hanging with him. He was making his his first solo album,

1252
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 2: and so I hung with him and sang a bunch

1253
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 2: of songs and helped helped engineer. Started thinking of me

1254
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 2: being an engineer, but I did engineer whole tower of

1255
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 2: power horn session. So so you know, I was just

1256
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 2: started hanging with him and you know, and singing, singing

1257
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:54,759
Speaker 2: a bunch of the songs on his album and playing

1258
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 2: a bunch of the stuff. And there was a song

1259
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 2: called And meanwhile, over in San Francisco, Crosby was making

1260
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,559
Speaker 2: his his album if I, if I could only remember

1261
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 2: my name, And and that was turning into a group

1262
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 2: thing too, because everybody, you know, all all a lot

1263
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 2: of the dead, and Paul and Grace and I were

1264
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,919
Speaker 2: over there for a lot of the sessions, just just

1265
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 2: just to hang and watch out and see if there's

1266
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:28,599
Speaker 2: anything we could do. And there was a whole thing

1267
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 2: called the what they call it, where everybody like Crosby, Nash,

1268
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 2: Phil Lesh, Paul, Grace, Me, Crosby, course Jerry Garcia would

1269
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 2: be there and we'd all just hang out, be jamming

1270
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 2: on songs. And I mean, I learned how to play

1271
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 2: that song, the Grateful Dead song, the Loser. He was

1272
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 2: writing that at that point. So he was playing that,

1273
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 2: and we ever teaching to everybody, and we were all

1274
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 2: playing that, and every bit of it was recorded on

1275
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:07,839
Speaker 2: two tracks, and it was called the Paro the Planet

1276
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 2: Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra, the PAO tapes, and that

1277
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 2: got out as an underground thing. So these long long

1278
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 2: jams on on one song or so anyway, So that

1279
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 2: was happening, and so I was hanging out with Paul

1280
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 2: and Grace a lot, and I heard this one song,

1281
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 2: I heard them singing on it. Would sound really good.

1282
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:33,479
Speaker 2: It's called Blind John the guitar player, and they could

1283
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 2: sing on it if they if they wanted to, and

1284
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 2: said you want to sing it? So they said sure,

1285
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 2: So we brought him over to Mickey's and they we

1286
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 2: sang the background vocals and Grace actually I saw her,

1287
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 2: said I heard, I heard a piano part for that,

1288
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 2: she played the piano. And shortly after we finished Mickey's album,

1289
01:23:55,880 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 2: Marty left the airplane and Paul and Grace asked me

1290
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 2: to come and sing the harmonies and be the other

1291
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:07,639
Speaker 2: other guy singer because they had to be two guys

1292
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 2: and a girl. And so that got me into Jefferson.

1293
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: Airplane, okay, and Jefferson the Airplane that ultimately disintegrates.

1294
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:27,719
Speaker 2: Right, So meanwhile, there's there's some time off after after

1295
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 2: all the touring for they were touring uh Long John Silver,

1296
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:33,840
Speaker 2: I think that was the name of the album, right,

1297
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 2: But Paul and Grace both owed Narcia record, so the

1298
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 2: first one ended up being Baron von told Booth and

1299
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 2: the Chrome Nun, which is credited to Paul, Grace and

1300
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 2: me because we just got together and put it to

1301
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 2: you know, got it together, and everybody else in San

1302
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 2: Francisco because Jerry Garcia is on it, and Mickey Hart's

1303
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 2: on it, you know, Yorman jack Aer on it, you know,

1304
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 2: everybody's it. And that that was pretty good. And then

1305
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 2: then Grace O had had one called Manhole and it

1306
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 2: was the same thing. You know, we used the Great

1307
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 2: San Francisco Wealth of Musicians and we did that one,

1308
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,000
Speaker 2: and then we had had to figure out what are

1309
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 2: we going to do? And Pete Sears was was was

1310
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 2: up playing get Nick doing a Kathy m MacDonald album in

1311
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 2: the same in another studio at Wally Hyder's, and I

1312
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 2: coveted him when I first saw him. He was playing

1313
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 2: with John Schippolina's band after he left Quicksilvery, and there

1314
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 2: was a guy named Jim McPherson and him that played

1315
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:45,679
Speaker 2: both played keyboards and bass, and so they switched back

1316
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 2: and forth, and I thought that would be great because

1317
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 2: I would love to be in a band with him

1318
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 2: because he played them both beautifully, you know, and he

1319
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 2: was and so I brought I hinted it Paul and Grace,

1320
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 2: you know, to meet this guy. So I brought him

1321
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 2: over and he played jammed a little blue song which

1322
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:09,639
Speaker 2: Grace turned into Better Lie Down I think on her

1323
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 2: album and and they got to know him, which is

1324
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 2: very good. And so when it came time what are

1325
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 2: we going to do? How are we going to get

1326
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 2: to band together? And said, well, and what are we

1327
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 2: going to call it? Well, you know, you know that

1328
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:32,640
Speaker 2: you know about Paul's blows against the empire, had it

1329
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 2: was who the cast was, who played the players? Where

1330
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 2: he called it the Jefferson Jefferson Starship Crew. So he

1331
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 2: had already had the name. It seemed obvious that that's

1332
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:49,559
Speaker 2: what we should let the name turn into. And everything

1333
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 2: went that way. And so when Pete Didget, I think

1334
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 2: he was playing with a Rod Stewart album in England,

1335
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 2: and when when that was over, he came back and

1336
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 2: we went on the first tour without him because he

1337
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 2: was finishing that record. But he came back and was

1338
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 2: on all the all the Jefferson Starship albums.

1339
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:17,440
Speaker 1: Okay, the first one, Dragonfly. There's one successful track, Caroline,

1340
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 1: sung by Marty, but Marty isn't in the band. How

1341
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 1: does that work? And how does Marty end up in

1342
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 1: the band.

1343
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:26,200
Speaker 2: Well, that's how he ended up in the band, I think,

1344
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 2: because because he didn't like what was happening between Yorman

1345
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:36,600
Speaker 2: and Jack and Paul and Grace, and nobody wanted to

1346
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 2: do what he wanted to do. I think, what's just

1347
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 2: sing Marty ballance songs, you know, And and that worked

1348
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 2: that he could still write with with Paul and so

1349
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 2: I assume that's why why he agreed to come back

1350
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 2: and do Red Octopus with us.

1351
01:27:55,840 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: Red Octopus is a gigantic success with Miracles. Did you

1352
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 1: guys know it was going to be so big?

1353
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 2: I could feel. I never wanted to think about, oh,

1354
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:13,080
Speaker 2: this is going to be really big or anything like that.

1355
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 2: I just wanted but I knew that that one from

1356
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 2: the moment we played it in the studio. I mean,

1357
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 2: because we rehearsed it and it was a lot of fun.

1358
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 2: When we played it in the studio, every everybody did

1359
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 2: exactly the right thing. That was like that was like

1360
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 2: a magical one to me.

1361
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:35,400
Speaker 1: Okay, this is the first time you've been making music

1362
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 1: for years, but this is the first time you've been

1363
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,600
Speaker 1: involved with something that is commercially successful.

1364
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 2: He yeah, And.

1365
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: Was your life now different? Were you making any money?

1366
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: It was a big band and you didn't write the hit,

1367
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 1: but you were on the album. How did it all

1368
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 1: work out?

1369
01:28:55,320 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 2: For you worked that great, I thought. I mean, I

1370
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 2: mean we had a song, I think song on the

1371
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 2: album that it wasn't a hit, but it got played.

1372
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:13,719
Speaker 2: Actually I played the the intro that the we're gonna

1373
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 2: look at the beginning was mine. So that's kind of

1374
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 2: the first hook.

1375
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:25,640
Speaker 1: So the next album is successful, not as successful as Redoctopus,

1376
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 1: almost nothing could be right. And then you know the

1377
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:36,440
Speaker 1: band starts, you know, switching into something different. Okay, yeah,

1378
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: tell me about that.

1379
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 2: Oh what was that Kevin Beamish? Right?

1380
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 1: Will you make another record? And that is nowhere near

1381
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 1: as successful? When's the change? Ron Nevison comes in? You

1382
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 1: write the same gene you're on that album. Yeah, but

1383
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:04,519
Speaker 1: ron Nevison is is about Lucy Goosey, like San Francisco. No, no,

1384
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 1: So how did you feel about all that?

1385
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 2: I thought he did a great job actually, but he

1386
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 2: had his own problems, but he got it done. I mean,

1387
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 2: you know, I wasn't the only writer. I mean I

1388
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,320
Speaker 2: started the song and my friend Jim McPherson and I

1389
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 2: wrote that wrote the melodies and the changes and the words.

1390
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 2: I mean, he helped me with the words. Basically I

1391
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:31,720
Speaker 2: had the melody and the changes, but Craig came up

1392
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 2: with that great rock arrangement, so that's the CASEO and

1393
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 2: Paul came up with the intro, so that was his

1394
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 2: little lick at the beginning. So that's so they each

1395
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 2: got's points on it.

1396
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 1: So okay, then there's another album, you know with ron

1397
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Nevisin where Craig writes the hit find Your Way Back. Yeah,

1398
01:30:54,439 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 1: And how does Nicky Thomas get in the bed?

1399
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 2: Well, he was in the band for when Grace left.

1400
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 2: He was he sang Jane, didn't he right?

1401
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 1: But how did you find him? How were you? He

1402
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: was working with Elvin Bishop. How did he end up

1403
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: in your band?

1404
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 2: Well, Marty and Grace both quit and Paul and I

1405
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 2: agreed with him, said said he thought we needed a

1406
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:24,760
Speaker 2: new lead singer, so we started auditioning people and we

1407
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 2: had Jane. So it kind of seemed like the person

1408
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 2: that sang Jane best was gonna was going to be

1409
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:39,880
Speaker 2: the guy. And uh, I don't know quite remember how

1410
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 2: he be came who talked him into coming in?

1411
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you ultimately leave?

1412
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 2: Well, there's a few albums before I know, we'll tell

1413
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:59,719
Speaker 2: you the story. Uh. He brought in Peter wolf Right,

1414
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:05,880
Speaker 2: who was the most. If anybody's around and you need

1415
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 2: keyboards played, it'd have to be him, because he was

1416
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:14,400
Speaker 2: a genius and he was he was great. But I

1417
01:32:14,439 --> 01:32:17,480
Speaker 2: don't know, I was doing less. I was doing much less.

1418
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 2: You know. I'd sing and maybe I'd get to play

1419
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 2: a little keys or something here, or play a little bass.

1420
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 2: And it felt like they were going more towards being

1421
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,120
Speaker 2: a corporate kind of band, you know what I mean,

1422
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 2: where they're going to say, Okay, we'll sit here and

1423
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:38,719
Speaker 2: we'll listen to people's songs and we'll pick the songs

1424
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 2: we're going to do, which is what it turned into

1425
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:45,640
Speaker 2: after I left and Paul left, and so you know,

1426
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 2: and it was trying of it was moves to pull

1427
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 2: push Paul out, you know, because nobody wanted to do

1428
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 2: his crazy songs or anything, you know, and I kind

1429
01:32:56,920 --> 01:33:00,719
Speaker 2: of like Paul's crazy songs. Some of them were really good.

1430
01:33:01,479 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 2: And uh, but I also have a hard time quitting band.

1431
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:08,160
Speaker 2: Says well, I noticed I should have quit Quick Sliver

1432
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 2: before I did, and I probably should have quit this one.

1433
01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:13,840
Speaker 1: Well how did it add? Did they push you to

1434
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:14,439
Speaker 1: you jump?

1435
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 2: Oh? They pushed, they pushed, But I saw it coming.

1436
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:21,720
Speaker 2: I mean I could. I could tell by all the

1437
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 2: contracts that were being signed and things like that. Oh,

1438
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:27,640
Speaker 2: people could be fired from the band. Okay yet da

1439
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,680
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I said, I said, SKay them,

1440
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:32,800
Speaker 2: now they can fire me. So I expected it. I

1441
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:36,640
Speaker 2: expected because I wasn't doing anything and I and I

1442
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 2: was thinking about getting out myself, you know, So that

1443
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 2: just made it final. So you know, I didn't take

1444
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 2: it that hard. Actually, and you know, if I if I,

1445
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 2: if I hadn't been it didn't get out of it,

1446
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 2: I probably never would have met my wife. Now went

1447
01:33:56,280 --> 01:34:03,160
Speaker 2: the magnificent Linden Imperial and uh and so I was

1448
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 2: quite happy about it.

1449
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:07,720
Speaker 1: Actually, okay, you're out of the band. What are you

1450
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:08,559
Speaker 1: going to do for money?

1451
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll screep it up somehow, you know, I had

1452
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 2: some money anyway, pushed it put away and so I

1453
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 2: don't know, I went. I started. I hung out with

1454
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 2: Gary Duncan again, who seemed to be reasonable again. And

1455
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 2: actually that's how I met Linda. You know. I got

1456
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:33,920
Speaker 2: a phone call and he says, hey, David, I got

1457
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:36,920
Speaker 2: this chick singer coming coming around and I need to

1458
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:41,600
Speaker 2: do some background vocals and and because the ones that

1459
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 2: are on there. Man, the girls got too screwed up

1460
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 2: and I can't use any of it. He says, Okay,

1461
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 2: I'll come over. And so I ended up picking up

1462
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 2: this chick singer at the bus stop and bringing them

1463
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:55,639
Speaker 2: over to it to his studio, and it was Linda

1464
01:34:55,680 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 2: Imperial and h just like falling off a lall we're saying,

1465
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 2: I think four did four background four songs, backgrounds topped

1466
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 2: a bottom in one day and it was beautiful.

1467
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:14,719
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, how long did it last with the marriage

1468
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:16,320
Speaker 1: with the woman you met at the film bore?

1469
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 2: Oh? Julia, Well, I have a beautiful daughter with her.

1470
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:31,960
Speaker 2: Jessica girl, Yeah, girl, girl, Julie, Julia. We got divorced,

1471
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 2: very dignified. I mean it was it was easy. We

1472
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 2: all just got together and said, well what do we have?

1473
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:40,679
Speaker 2: We have this house? Okay, you want me to buy

1474
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 2: your half of it? And she said that sounds really good.

1475
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 2: So I bought her half of the house. I don't

1476
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 2: think her lawyer liked it, but she insisted that's all

1477
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:51,479
Speaker 2: she wanted.

1478
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 1: Okay, at this late date, do you get any royalties.

1479
01:35:59,439 --> 01:35:59,760
Speaker 2: From what?

1480
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:05,599
Speaker 1: From records? Songs? Sure enough to live on.

1481
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:10,040
Speaker 2: Close?

1482
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:15,559
Speaker 1: Oh that's good, that's good. So the way you tell

1483
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:19,640
Speaker 1: the story is you were kind of bumping around and

1484
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 1: he said I want to I kind of want to

1485
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:24,000
Speaker 1: do this, and you were kind of falling into things.

1486
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:28,600
Speaker 1: Is that an accurate description or were you really aggressive?

1487
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 1: Has got a bad connotation, But were you more like, well, geez,

1488
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 1: I kind of want to do this. You know, I

1489
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:36,800
Speaker 1: met this guy. This guy seems to be going somewhere.

1490
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,000
Speaker 1: You know, if we look back, what was it like?

1491
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:43,880
Speaker 2: I didn't really think about it like that. I think

1492
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 2: I wanted to go. I wanted I wanted to be

1493
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 2: in a band where everybody respected each other and and

1494
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 2: and you know, and I don't think I ever found

1495
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:01,200
Speaker 2: one it till I was in the one that I'm

1496
01:37:01,240 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 2: in now, because that feels great, It's absolutely great.

1497
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:11,720
Speaker 1: And then, you know, if you weren't living in San Francisco,

1498
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 1: you were hearing about the hate ashbery, you were hearing

1499
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: about drugs, hearing about Summer of Love. What was your

1500
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 1: take on all of that?

1501
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was kind of a mistake. I mean,

1502
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:27,640
Speaker 2: nothing lasts forever. I mean, you can't come out and

1503
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:34,760
Speaker 2: find and as soon as it hit the I saw

1504
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:40,200
Speaker 2: somebody like like guys in Vietnam, looking at the Quicksilver

1505
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 2: Messenger service, uh album on in Time on Times, Time

1506
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 2: Magazine's cover or something like that. And once once you're

1507
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,280
Speaker 2: in Time magazine or stuff like that, it's all over

1508
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 2: because because it can't it can't be the same. Everybody's

1509
01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:00,559
Speaker 2: going to want to come out and see. It has

1510
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 2: to be turned into a one way I mean, yeah,

1511
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 2: it has to be turned into a one way street

1512
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:08,439
Speaker 2: because there's too many, too much traffic and you know,

1513
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:10,560
Speaker 2: everybody's coming out to see the hippies who went to

1514
01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 2: Meriton County last year.

1515
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 1: You know, So before it got all the publicity, was

1516
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,120
Speaker 1: it a dream? Was it great.

1517
01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:24,719
Speaker 2: For Yeah, for a few months, I'd say maybe six,

1518
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 2: but you know it it's you know, it wasn't that

1519
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:33,559
Speaker 2: cut and dried. But for the first year it was

1520
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:36,080
Speaker 2: fine until it got really big. And then when it

1521
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:39,800
Speaker 2: gets really big, it's it's too big to I mean,

1522
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:41,639
Speaker 2: San Francisco couldn't hold all that.

1523
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:49,320
Speaker 1: So being a folks singer, yeah, seeing everything, what do

1524
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 1: you see in today's world? So he can do There

1525
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 1: was a thought back in the sixties music could change

1526
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 1: the world. How do you feel about today's world and

1527
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:03,080
Speaker 1: can it be changed by music? Does it even need changing.

1528
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:10,759
Speaker 2: It certainly seems like it needs changing, but it could help.

1529
01:39:12,240 --> 01:39:14,720
Speaker 2: I don't think it could do it. I don't think

1530
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 2: any one thing could change. People have to change, and

1531
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:22,320
Speaker 2: are they going to I don't know. But all you

1532
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,520
Speaker 2: can do is try.

1533
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 1: Well, would you consider yourself an old hippie you never

1534
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:31,599
Speaker 1: sold out, or how do you view yourself?

1535
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. I kind of sold out. I made

1536
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:40,280
Speaker 2: money doing stuff, But yes, I still agree I haven't changed.

1537
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:43,519
Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you kind of made money

1538
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:44,200
Speaker 1: by accident.

1539
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:48,120
Speaker 2: Well, I was in the right place at the right time,

1540
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 2: I must admit. I mean that's part of it. But

1541
01:39:55,160 --> 01:40:03,880
Speaker 2: you have have some talent and and I still have

1542
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:09,679
Speaker 2: values and and I know that people in our band

1543
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:13,400
Speaker 2: do that when we have now really do and we're

1544
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 2: trying trying to change things. But all we can all

1545
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:23,799
Speaker 2: we can do is is is singing and and and

1546
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:27,400
Speaker 2: so that people are all just people, man, They're all

1547
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 2: just people, and they ain't that much different anywhere you go.

1548
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:36,880
Speaker 2: And anybody that tells you any different is trying to

1549
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:37,439
Speaker 2: get something.

1550
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:45,719
Speaker 1: So what do you want to be remembered for? Don't

1551
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 1: need to be remembered. I don't know that's a basic question.

1552
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't care.

1553
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. I want to remember for a guy

1554
01:40:57,280 --> 01:41:00,679
Speaker 2: that did the did the right thing for as he could.

1555
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:05,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's the kind of all I can

1556
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:06,280
Speaker 2: ask for.

1557
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: And you still are in contact with the beat people.

1558
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:13,680
Speaker 1: You're out on the road with Jefferson Starship, but all

1559
01:41:13,720 --> 01:41:17,800
Speaker 1: the other people from San Francisco band, some you were in,

1560
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 1: some you weren't, who are still alive, which is a

1561
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 1: big thing. Is there still a community you still talk

1562
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 1: to them, or is basically everybody's doing their own thing.

1563
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:31,240
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, I'm the only time I ever see any

1564
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 2: old friends is that it's somebody else's funeral. But I'm

1565
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:43,519
Speaker 2: just trying to to make it to be positive through

1566
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:45,840
Speaker 2: what's happening now, and that's hard.

1567
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:51,439
Speaker 1: The heavy lift. Okay, David, you've belistening to David Freiburg,

1568
01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 1: who was there when it all happened in San Francisco

1569
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:57,440
Speaker 1: and you know him of course from Quicksilver Jefferson Starship

1570
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 1: Still Jefferson Starship. I want to thank you for taking

1571
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 1: this time to speak with my audience. Got back until

1572
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:07,120
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left six

1573
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 2: H