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Speaker 1: A warning.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide

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Speaker 2: that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If

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Speaker 2: you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to

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Speaker 2: the end of this episode to find out where help

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Speaker 2: is available.

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Speaker 1: Who was Byron's alibi?

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Speaker 3: Kelly Moffitt is his alibi, Debbie Moffatt is his alibi.

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Speaker 3: Bram Nisley is his alibi. Tara McDowell is his alibi.

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Speaker 3: Evlyn Case's mom is his alibi.

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Speaker 2: Byron Case's attorney, Brian Russell, is naming all of the

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Speaker 2: people who he says can verify Byron's whereabouts after Anastasia

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Speaker 2: supposedly got out of Justin's car at Truman Road and

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Speaker 2: the I four thirty.

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Speaker 3: Five, so Don Rand is an alibi witness, the two

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Speaker 3: undisclosed witnesses at the other gas station are his alibi witnesses,

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Speaker 3: and there his alibi be because Anastasia was alive when

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Speaker 3: she got out of that car at Truman Rode in

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Speaker 3: I four thirty five, he was somewhere else the entire

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Speaker 3: rest of the night and has people to place him

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Speaker 3: somewhere else the entire rest of the night. If she

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Speaker 3: got out of the car. Byron didn't do it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Leah Rothman, this is the real killer. Episode eight?

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Speaker 2: What about Bob, Anastasia, Justin, Byron, and Kelly go out

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Speaker 2: that fateful night, Anastasia ends up dead. Justin commits suicide.

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Speaker 2: That leaves just Kelly and Byron. If we rule out

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Speaker 2: a stranger killing, which was what Byron's did, defense attorney

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Speaker 2: offered up as a possibility a trial, what makes the

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Speaker 2: most sense that Byron or someone else did it? Attorney

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Speaker 2: Brian Russell says he and the team believe they have

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Speaker 2: uncovered some information that could point to the someone else.

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Speaker 3: The other thing about Byron's case that really made me

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Speaker 3: go I don't think Byron did it is when I

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Speaker 3: was reading a report from Deputy Eperson that he wrote

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Speaker 3: the day after Anastasia was found. And this is a

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Speaker 3: four page handwritten report, which police don't usually take the

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Speaker 3: time to do a four page handwritten report unless it's

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Speaker 3: something important.

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Speaker 2: Remember, Deputy David Epperson is the first person to find

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Speaker 2: Anastasia's body at Lincoln Cemetery at three forty four am

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Speaker 2: on October twenty third, nineteen ninety seven. The next day,

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Speaker 2: he comes into contact with Anastasia's dad, Bob Whitbule's Fugen,

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Speaker 2: and he writes a report about it.

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Speaker 3: Deputy Eperson records an interaction that he had with Bob

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Speaker 3: Whipple's Fugen where at a different cemetery, a cemetery called

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Speaker 3: Highland Cemetery, and mister Whipples Fugen shows up there and

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Speaker 3: says sees them and says, oh, I'm looking for Lincoln Cemetery.

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Speaker 3: I'm the father of the victim that was found there.

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Speaker 3: I just want to be close to where she was found,

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Speaker 3: which makes sense if you're a grieving father. But he

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Speaker 3: keeps asking Eperson if the crime scene looked like it

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Speaker 3: was tampered with, can you show me where a body

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Speaker 3: was found so I can be close to it. Eperson

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Speaker 3: politely tells him, well, I can't share that information with you,

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Speaker 3: but you should talk to the detectives if you want

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Speaker 3: that information. He says, can you tell me where Lincoln

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Speaker 3: Cemetery is. I've never been to Lincoln Cemetery before you.

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Speaker 3: So Epperson gives mister Whipples Fugen directions to Lincoln Cemetery

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Speaker 3: and then he uh follows him there a couple minutes later,

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Speaker 3: and when Eperson finds mister Whipples Fugen and Lincoln Cemetery.

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Speaker 3: He finds mister Whipples Fugen standing in the exact spot

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Speaker 3: where Eperson found Anastasia's body without anyone telling him where

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Speaker 3: her body was. And it was in that moment there

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Speaker 3: I was just like, well, Byron didn't do this.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to read from some of the report Deputy

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Speaker 2: Eperson wrote on October twenty fourth, at seven am, the

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Speaker 2: day after Anastasia was found murdered. He writes that he

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Speaker 2: and two other deputies were sitting at the entrance to

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Speaker 2: Highland Cemetery. Yes, there's a third cemetery in the area.

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Speaker 2: While sitting there, Eperson writes that Bob Whipples Fugen pulled

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Speaker 2: up in a quote blue four door Chevrolet Corsica with

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Speaker 2: damage to the front quarter panel on the driver's side.

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Speaker 2: He writes that Bob approached and said he was quote

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Speaker 2: the father of the murder victim found in Lincoln Cemetery

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Speaker 2: and he wanted to know if Highland Cemetery was Lincoln Cemetery.

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Speaker 2: Bob tells Eperson he's never been to Lincoln Cemetery. Eperson

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Speaker 2: tells Bob they're not the same, and he gives him

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Speaker 2: directions there. Bob then requests Eperson take him to the

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Speaker 2: place where the body of his daughter was found. Eperson

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Speaker 2: tells him he can't do that and that he should

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Speaker 2: contact the detective unit for a possible escort. Bob then

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Speaker 2: starts talking about the events prior to Anastasia's death. Bob

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Speaker 2: tells Eperson that his daughter had been emotionally disturbed for

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Speaker 2: the last several months and talked of suicide, but had

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Speaker 2: never acted on it. He describes his daughter as quote frisky,

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Speaker 2: and that she would never have been killed without a struggle,

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Speaker 2: and that she would die before ever letting anyone mess

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Speaker 2: with her. Bob states that her boyfriend was not violent

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Speaker 2: and he didn't believe he would kill her. Bob goes

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Speaker 2: on to tell Eperson that he had last spoken with

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Speaker 2: the boyfriend the night of October twenty second, around ten pm.

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Speaker 2: The boyfriend had told Bob he and Anastasia had been arguing.

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Speaker 2: She got out of the car at the stoplight at

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Speaker 2: Truman Road and the I four thirty five and began walking.

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Speaker 2: The boyfriend left her and went home. Epson writes that

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Speaker 2: mister Whitbeles Fuchen believed quote a stranger had picked her

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Speaker 2: up and told her that they would go to an

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Speaker 2: interesting place, a cemetery, and after getting to the cemetery,

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Speaker 2: the stranger shot her. Eperson notes that mister Whitbles Fugen

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Speaker 2: kept his composure through the conversation and continued making references

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Speaker 2: to the crime scene, stating quote, I hope they got

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Speaker 2: all of the evidence and did not miss something. According

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Speaker 2: to Epperson, Bob then says he's going to go to

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Speaker 2: Lincoln Cemetery and probably just quote walk the cemetery with

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Speaker 2: his hand on the wall, thinking about my daughter. About

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Speaker 2: two minutes after he leaves, Eperson and the other deputies

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Speaker 2: decide to go to Lincoln Cemetery to check on Bob's

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Speaker 2: well being. When they arrive, Eperson writes, quote, upon approaching

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Speaker 2: the circle drive, I observed mister Whipple's Fugen to be

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Speaker 2: standing with his hands on his hips, standing directly over

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Speaker 2: the exact location where I had found Anastasia's body on

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Speaker 2: ten twenty three, ninety seven. Mister whipples Fugen was looking

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Speaker 2: at the ground for approximately five seconds before turning around

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Speaker 2: and seeing me. Eperson goes on to write quote, upon

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Speaker 2: seeing me, he appeared startled and turned around, walking very

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Speaker 2: quickly towards my police vehicle with his left hand talked

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Speaker 2: firmly in his pocket. Mister whipples Fugen approached me and asked, quote,

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Speaker 2: am I close? Eperson writes, referring to where the body

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Speaker 2: was found. Eperson details quote I again advised mister whipples

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Speaker 2: Fugen that he should come intact the detective unit for

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Speaker 2: specific information, and he spontaneously stated, what are you guys

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Speaker 2: doing following me? I'm not the bad guy. You guys

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Speaker 2: should be out looking for the bad guy exclamation point.

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Speaker 2: Here's Sean O'Brien, one of Byron's attorneys, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, and this is like the day after all of

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Speaker 4: the you know, activity around the crime scene. The crime

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Speaker 4: scene tape is down, all that's been removed, but he's

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Speaker 4: right there on the exact spot, and so, you know,

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Speaker 4: that's really suspicious, and nobody.

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Speaker 2: Here's Byron's attorney, Nicole Gordon. It's clear, and that report

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Speaker 2: that Eperson is suspicious Abob should have been you know,

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Speaker 2: fertile ground for kil Gore, but it just wasn't. Although

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Speaker 2: Eperson and one other deputy write reports about this interaction

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Speaker 2: with Bob, it seems Sergeant Gary Kilgore does nothing with it, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's first talk about Bob's Remember at the scene, investigators

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Speaker 2: discovered paint chips and broken glass on a tree not

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Speaker 2: far from where Anastasia's body was found. Here's Sean again.

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Speaker 4: Epperson notes in his report that he saw Bob's car

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Speaker 4: had damage to the front quarter panel, so he made

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Speaker 4: a note of that, of course he's aware of. He

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Speaker 4: also worked the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Any broken glass on Bob's.

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Speaker 4: He didn't make a note of broken glass, about headlight

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Speaker 4: glass or anything, so that we don't know, and nobody

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Speaker 4: ever followed up the paint chips that were on the tree.

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Speaker 4: Those have been lost we were looking for.

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Speaker 2: Here's investigator Quinn O'Brien, also on Byron's team.

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Speaker 5: He's at the scene. The deputies who picked up the

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Speaker 5: paint chips in the autoglass said that the damage to

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Speaker 5: the tree looked fresh because everything was on top of

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Speaker 5: the grass, and you know, the paint was still on

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Speaker 5: the tree.

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Speaker 2: Were there any reports that noted what the paint chips were.

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Speaker 5: We were trying to find that for some reason. I

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Speaker 5: want to say that it's blue, but I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I know that they excluded Justin's car as having contributed

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Speaker 5: to the paint ships.

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Speaker 2: Justin's car was processed inside and out. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: read from the report written about that quote. A scrape

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Speaker 2: was present on the front passenger bumper. It was related

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Speaker 2: that this scrape occurred before this homicide. A light coating

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Speaker 2: of soil was present on the tires. This coating was

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Speaker 2: too light for collection. No accumulation of soil was observed

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Speaker 2: in any of the wheel wells. No obvious blood was

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Speaker 2: observed on the inside or outside of this vehicle. Luminol

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Speaker 2: was sprayed on the interior of this vehicle. No significant

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Speaker 2: activity with the luminol was observed indicative of the absence

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Speaker 2: of blood. It's noted that Sergeant Kilgore presented photographs of

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Speaker 2: tire tracks at the scene. They were compared to the

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Speaker 2: tires on Justin's vehicle.

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Speaker 6: Quote.

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Speaker 2: The tires on this vehicle did not match the tracks

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Speaker 2: in the photographs. When it comes to Byron's car, I

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Speaker 2: don't have any documentation that says it was processed and

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Speaker 2: or rolled out. Remember, there are conflicting reports of where

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Speaker 2: his car was that night. It might have been in

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Speaker 2: a shop, or it might have been parked at his mom's.

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Speaker 2: But because Bob took photos of Byron's car. I can

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Speaker 2: tell you it was white and it had a big

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Speaker 2: dent in the front bumper, no broken headlight glass. Though

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Speaker 2: you can see photos of Byron's car on the Real

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Speaker 2: Killer Podcast Instagram page, Bob's car was never examined. Okay,

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Speaker 2: going back to Deputy Eperson's report, because Bob has more

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Speaker 2: to say that day. Bob tells Eperson at eleven thirty

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Speaker 2: the night of October twenty second, while he was out

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Speaker 2: looking for Anastasia, he stopped at the gates of Mount

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Speaker 2: Washington Cemetery. Remember that's where Anastasia was dropped off to

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Speaker 2: meet Justin. Bob tells Eperson that the gate was locked,

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Speaker 2: and he pondered for a moment, hopping the fence to

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Speaker 2: go into the cemetery to search for his daughter because

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Speaker 2: he quote, since she was in real danger at that time.

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Speaker 2: Bob says he heard a loud gunshot, possibly from a

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Speaker 2: large caliber rifle, and he immediately turned in the direction

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Speaker 2: of the Cimarron apartments, believing the noise came from that direction.

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Speaker 2: Eperson writes, quote mister Whipplesfugen stated at that time he

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Speaker 2: clapped his hands together and yelled boom, there goes the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Mister Whipplesfugen then stated, at that time, I knew my

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Speaker 2: daughter was dead. Bob tells Eperson that he then began

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Speaker 2: driving back and forth on Truman Road searching for his daughter,

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Speaker 2: but never checked cemetery. Epperson continues to write, quote, I

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Speaker 2: observed mister Whipplesfugen's demeanor to change when he began talking

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Speaker 2: about the gunshot and described his actions upon hearing the gunshot.

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Speaker 2: He appeared to switch from grieving parent to excite it

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Speaker 2: and colorful describing in detail his emotion upon hearing the gunshot.

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Speaker 2: Here's Brian again about it.

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Speaker 3: He talks about hearing a gunshot and thinking I just

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Speaker 3: knew my daughter was dead at that point, and the

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Speaker 3: Cimarron apartments.

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Speaker 1: He mentions the Cimarron.

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Speaker 3: Correct, he doesn't mention Lincoln Cemetery, but if you put so,

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Speaker 3: he was when he claims that when he heard this

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Speaker 3: thing that sounded like a gun shot, he was at

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Speaker 3: the south gate to Mount Washington Cemetery and he heard

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Speaker 3: it coming from the direction of the Cimarin apartments. So

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Speaker 3: you know, when you look at it on a map

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Speaker 3: kind of you know, if he heard a gunshot from

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Speaker 3: that direction. Lincoln said pemetary is fair game, and hearing that.

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Speaker 2: I put a map of the area on the Real

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Speaker 2: Killer podcast on Instagram so you can see where Mount

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Speaker 2: Washington Cemetery is in relation to Lincoln Cemetery and the

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Speaker 2: Cimarron apartments. So Bob says, in that moment he hears

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Speaker 2: the gunshot, he feels he just heard the shot that

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Speaker 2: killed his daughter Anastasia. But that's at eleven thirty pm.

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Speaker 2: Kelly says Byron killed Anastasia sometime before nine PM, which

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Speaker 2: seems to check out because Kelly is home in time

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Speaker 2: for her curfew around nine nine thirty. Unfortunately, we don't

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Speaker 2: know Anastasia's time of death. I reach out to doctor

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Speaker 2: Thomas Young, the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy. First

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Speaker 2: he declines to be interviewed. Then I write him again

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Speaker 2: and ask if there's any way to determine even a

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Speaker 2: window of time for Anastasia's death.

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Speaker 1: He writes back, quote.

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Speaker 2: Time of death to terminations only work in detective fiction.

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Speaker 2: But I have a follow up question for doctor Young

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Speaker 2: because in his autopsy report he said that Anastasia's corneas

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Speaker 2: were clear, So I write asking him if her clear

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Speaker 2: corneas can tell us anything about the time of death.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Young never responds to that question. In my very

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Speaker 2: simple Google search of this, I find articles, including one

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Speaker 2: from the National Institutes of Health that says within two

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Speaker 2: to three hours after someone dies, the corneas start to

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Speaker 2: get cloudy. If the eyes are open, the clouding happens

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Speaker 2: much faster than if the eyes are closed. Based on

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Speaker 2: the crime scene photos, Anastasia's left eye was open, her

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Speaker 2: right eye was closed. So if Anastasia's corneas were clear

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Speaker 2: when the autopsy was performed, which was around nine thirty am,

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Speaker 2: then what does that mean in terms of when she

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Speaker 2: was killed. Could Bob have heard the shot that killed

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Speaker 2: Anastasia at eleven thirty pm or did she die sometime

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Speaker 2: before nine pm? When Bob says that he hears a gunshot,

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Speaker 2: does he go toward it?

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Speaker 3: I believe he says he drove up and down Truman

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Speaker 3: Road after hearing that, which means he would have driven

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Speaker 3: past one of the entrances to Lincoln Cemetery, the very

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Speaker 3: entrance that Kelly later says they used to go into

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Speaker 3: Lincoln Cemetery. But mister Whippleschugen says of a you know

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Speaker 3: everywhere I went last night. I went everywhere but Lincoln Cemetery.

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Speaker 2: Basically, Bob says he has an alibi right that he

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Speaker 2: gets off work at six o'clock and goes to John

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Speaker 2: Fisher's house. Bob told Sergeant Kilgore after work on the

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Speaker 2: twenty second, he stopped off at his friend John Fisher's

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Speaker 2: house for a meeting because he was supposed to run

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Speaker 2: as a team member in a marathon in Kansas City.

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Speaker 2: How closely did investigators look into Bob's alibi.

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Speaker 6: They didn't. There's no report of them interviewing John Fisher.

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Speaker 2: I reach out to who I believe is the correct

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Speaker 2: John Fisher, but have yet to hear back.

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Speaker 1: Here's Quinn.

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Speaker 5: It has always bothered me and a lot of other

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Speaker 5: people that Bob Whitbolsphugen places himself everywhere that night except

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Speaker 5: exactly where Anastasia's body was found. It also bothered Deputy

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Speaker 5: Eperson enough that Bob was found exactly in the spot

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Speaker 5: where his daughter's body was lying the next day before

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Speaker 5: anyone had told him that's where Anastasia's body was. He

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Speaker 5: thought that was suspicious. I agree. Also when they ask

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Speaker 5: Bob if he keeps guns in the house or if

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Speaker 5: he has guns. He says, I don't keep guns in

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Speaker 5: the house. The next question the deputy should have asked

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Speaker 5: him was, Okay, where do you keep your guns?

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Speaker 2: Because so I reach out to Bob via email and

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Speaker 2: he agrees to be interviewed. You should know that he

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Speaker 2: is currently in prison. I'll tell you why he's there

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Speaker 2: very soon. When we speak, Bob makes it clear he

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to talk so much about the investigation. He

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Speaker 2: really wants to keep the conversation to talking only about

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Speaker 2: Anastasia's life, death, and Byron's guilt. I record four calls

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Speaker 2: with him, some of which you've heard in episodes one

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Speaker 2: and two, but the connection isn't great. So I ask

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Speaker 2: if we can do a proper interview arranged by the prison,

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Speaker 2: where he can be in a quiet room on a

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Speaker 2: phone line with a cleaner connection. Bob says yes. Then

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Speaker 2: I write again, trying to nail down a day and time.

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Speaker 2: He offers up some options, but then also says he

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Speaker 2: no longer sees the need to talk with me. I

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Speaker 2: reach out to him a few more times, he stops

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Speaker 2: responding altogether. Obviously, I have one thousand questions for Bob.

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Speaker 2: Among them, I'd like to know what he thinks about

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Speaker 2: Deputy Eperson's report, and I'd like to know more about

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Speaker 2: the investigation he was conducting at the same time Kilgore

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Speaker 2: was conducting his. I hope we will be able to

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Speaker 2: connect again sometime soon.

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Speaker 1: Here's Nicole again.

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Speaker 7: Bob inserts himself and the investigation pretty early. I cannot

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Speaker 7: pretend to know what his motive was or why he

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Speaker 7: did that. It could be a number of reasons. He

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Speaker 7: could be trying to attaint the investigation. He could have

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Speaker 7: a personality disturbance that would cause him to do something

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Speaker 7: like this, or he could want the attention. Or he

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Speaker 7: could be a grieving father, or he could be a

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Speaker 7: grieving father, or he could be a suspect. You know,

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Speaker 7: there's a handful of reasons why someone would involve themselves

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Speaker 7: so heavily and an investigation, and I really don't know why.

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Speaker 1: Here's Sean.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not going to judge a man who just

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Speaker 4: lost his daughter. If something happened to either of my daughters,

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Speaker 4: I would probably be involved in trying to figure out

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Speaker 4: what happened. I would want answers. I don't fault them

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Speaker 4: with it all, but I don't think I would be

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Speaker 4: as weird as Bob in going about it and distrusting

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Speaker 4: and paranoid about the detectives and their motives, you know.

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Speaker 4: But he does have some legitimate beefs about the quality

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Speaker 4: of this investigation.

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Speaker 2: And there is something interesting that happens in the course

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Speaker 2: of the investigation between Bob and Kelly. We mentioned this

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Speaker 2: briefly in episode five. Here's Nicole.

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Speaker 7: Kelly reached out to Bob up through email and let

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Speaker 7: him know that she was sorry for what had happened.

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Speaker 7: Her story was the same, I mean, at this point,

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Speaker 7: according to her, Anastesia got out of the car. Everyone's

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Speaker 7: story is a line, and she just wants to tell

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Speaker 7: Bob that she's sorry for what happened.

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Speaker 1: And she asked me, I'm going to read you.

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Speaker 2: Kelly's email dated May twelfth, nineteen ninety eight. This is

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Speaker 2: roughly seven months after Anastasia's murder. Kelly writes, quote, dear

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Speaker 2: mister Whipples Fugen, I don't even know how to begin this.

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Speaker 2: I'm Kelly Moffatt, Byron's girlfriend. I just wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: to you about everything that has gone on. No one

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Speaker 2: else in my life knew Anastasia and Justin or they

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Speaker 2: don't want to talk about it. I have blocked everything

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Speaker 2: out for some time. I pretty much severed all ties

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Speaker 2: with that part of my life. I guess I was

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Speaker 2: hoping it was all a bad dream that I would

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Speaker 2: wake up from. I know now that I won't wake up,

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Speaker 2: and I need to talk to someone. I miss Anastasia

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Speaker 2: and Justin so much. I'm not going to try and

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Speaker 2: pretend that Anastasia and I were best friends. But I

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Speaker 2: liked her and we had fun together before her death.

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Speaker 2: I got to see what Anastasia was like on her own.

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Speaker 2: We would have girl talk on the phone and whine

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Speaker 2: about our boyfriends. She was always sarcastic and witty. I

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Speaker 2: think we could have been great friends. For the first time,

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Speaker 2: I feel I have really mourned her loss and am

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Speaker 2: now realizing that she is gone. It hurts a lot,

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Speaker 2: and I feel that I'm grieving alone. Byron has a

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Speaker 2: tendency to block things out. He has hardly ever spoken

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Speaker 2: of his loss of Justin, Anastasia, and his father. When

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Speaker 2: I bring it up, he grows quiet and upset or

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Speaker 2: ignores it. He is dealing with things in a very

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Speaker 2: unhealthy manner. But I can't make him see it. I

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Speaker 2: would appreciate it if we could get together and talk.

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Speaker 2: It would mean a lot to me if we can

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Speaker 2: swap stories and help each other through this. Sincerely, Kelly,

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Speaker 2: and then they continue talking right right.

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Speaker 7: There's an exchange between she and Bob that goes on

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Speaker 7: for a couple of months. At one point they talk

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Speaker 7: about an arrangement to meet, and Bob says that he

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Speaker 7: thinks it's best for them to meet in a quiet

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Speaker 7: place that he is hard of hearing, but that he

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Speaker 7: would let Kelly decide. Does anything come of we don't know,

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Speaker 7: not through email, it doesn't.

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Speaker 6: We don't know if they ever met.

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Speaker 2: The team says, once again, it's the timeline that raises

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Speaker 2: some questions, specifically how Bob and Kelly talking might relate

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Speaker 2: to Sergeant Kilgore's letter to Bob in August of nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety eight. Remember, kil Gore wrote basically, a stop harassing

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Speaker 2: me and don't come to me if you don't have

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Speaker 2: something new and viable.

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Speaker 1: Letter. Here's Sean again.

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Speaker 4: Now there is a place where Sergeant Kilgore in his

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Speaker 4: letter saying listen, I've had enough for you.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 4: That's the tone of the of the letter that he

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Speaker 4: sends kill Gore says, we have exhausted our leads in

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Speaker 4: this case. We don't have anywhere else to go. I mean,

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Speaker 4: if you have something, bring it to us. And of

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Speaker 4: course it's after that that Kelly then changes her story,

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Speaker 4: and you know, by her own statement in that conversation

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Speaker 4: that was recorded between her and Byron, says, Anastagia's creepy

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Speaker 4: dad has been calling and emailing me and bugging me about.

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Speaker 1: This, you know.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's huge that he was involved in

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Speaker 4: this investigation.

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Speaker 2: So here are the dates surrounding all of these events.

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Speaker 2: It seems Kelly's first email to Bob is on May twelfth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight. The few emails go through May, she

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Speaker 2: writes again in early July. What happens after that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Kelly may have written Bob and wanted

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Speaker 2: to quote swap stories for a purely innocent reason because

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Speaker 2: she was hurting and simply needed to connect with someone

401
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Speaker 2: who was also grieving. Okay, back to the timeline, kil

402
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Speaker 2: Gore writes that stop harassing me letter to Bob on

403
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Speaker 2: August twenty first, nineteen ninety eight. The next day, on

404
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Speaker 2: August twenty second, Kelly meets with Kilgore and tells him

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Speaker 2: she thinks Byron is acting weird and he might know

406
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Speaker 2: more than he's saying, but she doesn't think it's a

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Speaker 2: murder type of thing. Kelly doesn't completely change her story

408
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Speaker 2: until two years later, on September nineteenth, two thousand and

409
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Speaker 2: she says that comment about Anastasia's creepy dad to Byron

410
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Speaker 2: in that June fifth, two thousand and one recorded phone call.

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Speaker 2: So did Kelly and Bob ever talk or meet up?

412
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 2: Is the reason she started to change her story connected

413
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: to Bob? Or Is it because she was a traumatized

414
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Speaker 2: teenage girl and the truth was starting to eat her alive.

415
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Speaker 2: Earlier this episode, we talked about the report Deputy David

416
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: Epperson wrote about seeing Anastasia's dad, Bob Whitblesfugen, standing at

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Speaker 2: the exact spot where her body was found in Lincoln

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Speaker 2: Cemetery the day before, well on October twenty second, nineteen

419
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Speaker 2: ninety eight, one year to the day Anastasia was killed.

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Speaker 2: Bob is back at Lincoln Cemetery, here's Attorney Nicole Gordon,

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Speaker 2: and Eperson.

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Speaker 7: Is there's just strange and so Epson describes his encounter

423
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Speaker 7: with him and says that he's driving a different car.

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Speaker 7: He notes that Bob's you know, so he's taking Bob in.

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Speaker 7: He's suspicious of Bob the entire.

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Speaker 6: Time, and I can't recall.

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Speaker 2: Here's some of Eperson's four and a half page handwritten

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Speaker 2: report from that encounter. Eperson writes that it's nine fifty

429
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: five pm on October twenty second, nineteen ninety eight when

430
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: he first sees Bob, who was sitting in his car

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00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: near Lincoln's Cemetery with his engine and lights turned off.

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Speaker 2: Eperson asks what he was doing, and Bob says just

433
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: looking at the downtown skyline. A bit later, Eperson sees

434
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: Bob again and he decides to follow him. He locates

435
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: Bob at the south gate of Mount Washington Cemetery. Eperson writes, quote,

436
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 2: upon contacting mister Whipple's Fugen, he appeared nervous. Bob goes

437
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 2: on to talk about the caravan of cars and how

438
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: investigators haven't followed up on how he obtained some secondhand

439
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: information about the knight Anastasia was killed. Quote four parties

440
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: had been riding around with a loaded gun and that

441
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: the victim had been shot accidentally. Eperson goes on to write,

442
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: I'm not sure whether he speculated at this point, but

443
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: he went on to say after the accidental death, the

444
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: victim's boyfriend wanted to call the police, but he was

445
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: threatened by another member of the party, so he did not.

446
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: The boyfriend then became afraid, so the next day he

447
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: went out and bought a gun for his protection. Two

448
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 2: days later, he was found dead in Kansas. Eperson writes, quote,

449
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: mister Whipples Fugen stated he believed the boyfriend was murdered.

450
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: Bob then goes on to recount the night of October

451
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, including hearing the gun shot.

452
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: This time, he says it was around midnight. Bob says

453
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: he knew it was a large caliber, not a twenty

454
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: two caliber, but not a shotgun either because he used

455
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: to shoot guns with his grandfather. Bob then starts asking

456
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: Eperson questions about the case. Eperson says he is unaware

457
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: of any new leads. Eperson writes quote. He then asked

458
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: if the crime scene looked like it had been set up.

459
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: Eperson tells Bob the crime scene was processed by the

460
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 2: investigative unit and he would have to contact them for

461
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 2: any information. Bob then states that the detective had labeled

462
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: him as a suspect, and he stated, quote, I couldn't

463
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: have did it. I didn't get off work until nine.

464
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: Eperson writes, quote. Mister whitbeles Fugen seemed upset about his

465
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: daughter's death, and it should be noted it had been

466
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: one year, almost to the hour since the homicide. I

467
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: ask Attorney Brian Russell if Deputy Eperson's reports about Bob

468
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: in and around Lincoln Cemetery were ever handed over to

469
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: Byron's trial attorney.

470
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: That eperson reports were.

471
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: Yes.

472
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: I believe hort Lance had the reports before trial.

473
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: So Byron's defense attorney had Eperson's reports but never used

474
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: them at trial. I reach out to David Eperson, who

475
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: sounds like he's open to talking with me. He asks

476
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: me to call him back the following week, and I do.

477
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: I try him several times after that, but he hasn't

478
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: returned any of my calls. As Byron's legal team dives

479
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: deeper into their investigation of Bob, they say it's what

480
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 2: his ex wife, Anastage's mother Betsy Owens, tells Sergeant Kilgore

481
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: back on November seventh, nineteen ninety seven. That makes them

482
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: take note. Here's Nicole again.

483
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 6: I'm sorry.

484
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 7: After Bob and Betsy divorced, Betsy's neighbor approached Betsy and said,

485
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 7: I'm glad the pub doesn't live here anymore.

486
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: Betsy tells Kilgore that her neighbor, who was the grandmother

487
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: of the child Betsy used to babysit, came over one

488
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: day and told her that Bob had done some inappropriate

489
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: things to her grandchild. To protect the identity of this

490
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: neighbor and her family, we've edited out their names to begin,

491
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: Betsy says the grandmother came to her and told her

492
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: that Bob had come to the door nude when this

493
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: grandchild was dropped off for babysitting. Betsy continues with.

494
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 8: Another granddaughter had accused him some hoeffectual sometime. Never I

495
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 8: know whether was reported or whatever. She was just happy

496
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 8: before so getting them out of there. So I always

497
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 8: made sure, what you know, I never let his want

498
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 8: kid go over to his house. He took one of

499
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 8: my kids a couple of years ago over there in

500
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 8: the six weeks she wanted to come home, and I

501
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 8: worked at philspe I rate. I thought itself right if

502
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 8: he did anything that she would be the best thing

503
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 8: you do you know, any him ever sexually I know

504
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 8: who never had sexually suddenly in.

505
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 9: My kids using on anything ever said? You know she

506
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 9: will give you any indication that it was going on.

507
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 8: No, So, as far as I know, nothing hands.

508
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: Betsy goes on to talk about one of her other daughters,

509
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: who I'm also not going to name. Betsy's particularly hard

510
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: to hear during this next part, so I will tell

511
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: you verbatim what she says, which is that one of

512
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: her daughter's preschool teachers said this daughter quote acted like

513
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 2: a child who had been sexually molested or abused. Betsy

514
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: goes on to say, quote, but I don't have any

515
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: proof one way or the other. Kilgore asks if Betsy

516
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: ever called the police about any of this. Betsy says, yes,

517
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: but she gave up calling the police after this war

518
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: time when Bob quote beat me up and threw me

519
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: out in the rain. Betsy says, police told her she

520
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: could leave, but she couldn't take the kids with her

521
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: without a court order, so she stayed because she couldn't

522
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: leave her kids behind. Kilgore then circles back to the

523
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: neighbor grandmother's story asking if the grandmother ever called the

524
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: police on Bob.

525
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 8: From then I understood shouldn't get the place because she

526
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 8: didn't want to hurt play.

527
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, what would be Why didn't you say that the

528
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 9: actor did make physical compact.

529
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 10: With the downtown.

530
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 8: Possibly can slay or something. I was laying down, rusting,

531
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 8: and I could hear him on the bedroom.

532
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 11: They were up on a point of video games and

533
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 11: he was up on the top.

534
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 9: By the.

535
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 8: Like, and I could hear on that thanky to go

536
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 8: downstairs or basebook to get something. And after a few

537
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 8: minutes a dole this was re quite, I'm gonna get

538
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,239
Speaker 8: out for me got up and the little girl had

539
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 8: gone home. And so I didn't think anything. You know,

540
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 8: you know, I want to hear your own she left

541
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 8: Jamie Loft when things that came back up, students or

542
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 8: what so, I don't know what happened, but ever done

543
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 8: anything it scared to girl of a look or she

544
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 8: left them at home and told her her family and died.

545
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 8: And why away do you recall what it was that

546
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 8: she she said? Wether he was exposing in himself to home.

547
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 7: Or what.

548
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 8: I'm not sure. I don't know alight, you'd have to

549
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 8: die better. I'm sure they got a better the home.

550
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 8: Sometimes over everything that's happened on a book goes though.

551
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 8: Uh And.

552
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 10: Do you don't believe he was in one of you

553
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 10: in dating?

554
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 8: I don't think.

555
00:34:59,120 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 10: I don't think she.

556
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, I love see and trying something back when she know,

557
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 8: you know, because she you know, suddenly ended up over

558
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 8: a jumping that she didn't want to to go back.

559
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 11: Kind of relationships she had had with them, with their father.

560
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: She did not want to live back there.

561
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 8: If she had had felt like she had any other options,

562
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 8: she would have chose her And the way she moved

563
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 8: into justice that she had no place really to go.

564
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 8: And I thought that was surprised that she moved back

565
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 8: after that, you know, why did he didn't add the

566
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 8: place off to go.

567
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 2: Betsy says things were complicated at her house with her

568
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: current husband, who was a recovering drug addict. It got

569
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: to the point where Anastasia didn't want to be at

570
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: her house either. Betsy goes on to tell Kilgore more

571
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: about how Bob had been physically abusive during their marriage.

572
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: Betsy says that Bob would beat on her and that

573
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: Bob's mother would tell her to keep her mouth shut

574
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: or she'll get beaten even harder.

575
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 10: I mean because of UH getting beat up too many

576
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 10: times that type of thing. Yeah, I wasn't going to

577
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 10: subject to kids too big violent arguments, and and they

578
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 10: were pretty violent, bloodsy physically abusing and dating station.

579
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 8: As a pit or whatever wance or why is to

580
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 8: get her to Iron left or world or to all

581
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 8: of them, you know, no bruthals. You know, he didn't

582
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 8: realize I don't think the power that he had or whatever.

583
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 8: But I tried to protect the kids as much as

584
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 8: possible too, and eventually got them out of there.

585
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: In one of Anastasia's journal entries, dated March eighteenth, nineteen

586
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: ninety seven, about seven months before she was killed, she

587
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: writes this about Bob wanting her to get off the phone. Quote,

588
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: my dad just started going off on me for speaking logically,

589
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: and finally I couldn't take it anymore. The night before,

590
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: my dad slapped me twice when I talked back to him.

591
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: All I did was tell him to ask me to

592
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: turn down the stereo instead of stomping in my room

593
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: and doing it. I thought about taking a razor to

594
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: my wrist, but then decided I liked my wrists too much.

595
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: Back to Betsy and Sergeant Kilgore.

596
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 9: Would you be shocked or surprised if if I had

597
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 9: been amazing his gildn Im'd be disappointed with the kids.

598
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 8: That will tell me about the kids that the fall

599
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 8: well educated in school? That rit you or shocked would be.

600
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 11: Based on what you've sild me to them.

601
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 8: I don't know, surprisingly shocking, thanking the advocate that higher

602
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 8: degree of emotion. Part of me wonder for where was people?

603
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 8: They have not looked at a for stage. But you

604
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 8: know she's ben being to death.

605
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 11: I might have thought, you know, he might.

606
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 8: Have had something to do with him, because he could

607
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 8: get really angry at it.

608
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 11: But you know, as far as I long, he hasn't

609
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 11: had any.

610
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 9: Weapons before we were married, or acts to him interest

611
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 9: over the entirety, just because I'd never allow Weathers in

612
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 9: top the drama him.

613
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 11: I mean, I got a good temper on me and

614
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 11: you know, but what starts coming after me?

615
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 8: You know our dad I didn't have any Well, we

616
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 8: get back to me.

617
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: So Betsy says a lot during her interview with Kilgore.

618
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 2: She says Bob used to physically abuse her, and although

619
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: she doesn't believe Bob was abusing Anastasia or any of

620
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: her other daughters. She does wonder where Bob was and

621
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: what went on the night he was out searching for Anastasia.

622
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: The only thing I'm thinking is why didn't Kilgore ask

623
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: Bob about what Betsy said about him? These are some

624
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: explosive allegations. Why were they not followed up on?

625
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 7: Here's Nicole so in that same report, in the interview,

626
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 7: the eleven seven, ninety seven interview with Betsy, she tells

627
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 7: Kilgore that Bob worked at a children's home in Illinois,

628
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 7: which whoa and he was a social worker, and so

629
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 7: looking further into that, there's a lot of issues with

630
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 7: this children's home, and in fact with a lot of

631
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 7: children's home funded by Catholic charities.

632
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 6: And it was in the paper.

633
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 2: According to Betsy, she met Bob while he was working

634
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: as a social worker at the Covenant Children's Home in Princeton, Illinois,

635
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: back in the late seventies. There were some serious issues

636
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: while she and Bob were there, which had absolutely nothing

637
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: to do with either of them. A counselor pled guilty

638
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: to sex assault charges involved two teenage boys. There was

639
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: a sixteen year old boy who raped and murdered a

640
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: ten year old girl. Betsy actually testified at that trial.

641
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: Bob did not.

642
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: This may be a good time to point out that

643
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: Bob didn't testify at Byron's trial either. Why didn't either

644
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: the prosecution or the defense call Bob? Did prosecutors view

645
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: Bob as a liability to their case? Could some of

646
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: his actions have caused reasonable doubt in the minds of

647
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 2: the jurors, or did prosecutors not want to further traumatize

648
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: a grieving father. Either way, I find it very strange.

649
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: Something Brian Russell finds strange is how Bob handled or

650
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: mishandled Anastasia's cries for help, considering he had worked as

651
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: a youth counselor Here's Brian, I.

652
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: Found it really interesting in the context of mister Whipple's

653
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 3: fe game, especially because when his daughter keeps talking about

654
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: suicide or being depressed, and how he just seems to

655
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 3: have such a flippant attitude about it when he should

656
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: know or should have known that, you know, my daughter's

657
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 3: in crisis and needs help, and he just buried his head,

658
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: buried his.

659
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 6: Head in the sand.

660
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: I mean, he also took out a second life insurance

661
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 3: policy on her, so maybe he was taking it serious.

662
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 2: Yes, you heard Brian correctly. According to police reports, it

663
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: seems Bob had two life insurance policies on Anastasia. The

664
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: first one he took out in February of nineteen ninety

665
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: two for twenty thousand dollars.

666
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: Bob was the beneficiary.

667
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: That was paid out May nineteen ninety eight, so about

668
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 2: seven months after Anastasia's death. The other policy was taken

669
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: out on October twentieth, nineteen ninety seven, two days before Anastasia.

670
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: That policy was for twelve thousand dollars and Bob again

671
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: was the beneficiary. It should be known that Bob didn't

672
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: seek this policy out. It was basically a solicitation call

673
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: from J. C. Penny because he had a JC Penny

674
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: credit card. I don't know if this policy was ever

675
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 2: paid out. Did Bob have policies on all of his kids?

676
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: I also don't know that.

677
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: Here's Anastasia's mom, Betsy, talking to Sergeant Kilgore about one

678
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 2: of the insurance policies.

679
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 11: Where Robert was kind of pissy. He got an art

680
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 11: why he just got more one.

681
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 12: Thousand dollar accidental death and insurance policy on her but

682
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 12: then he found out that it wasn't going to cover

683
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 12: because she was eighteen in that full time student.

684
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 10: So he's loll pissed off about that way.

685
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 8: At least his expenses got paid for where ye I

686
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 8: guess he had two thousand at work on her. So

687
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 8: we split the funeral bell.

688
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 10: And a half and my my stuffs paid it because.

689
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 11: They didn't have and.

690
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 9: So I don't know his his robber been pretty ubserve overall.

691
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 11: Yeah, he even went to the well. At first it

692
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 11: was like we're gonna have you know, we're gonna bury her.

693
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 11: And the next day it's like, well.

694
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 10: We got a crematory, you know.

695
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 11: I well, I said, well, well, I asked him, well,

696
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 11: don't they need to keep the body, you know, can

697
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 11: stay after I ever have to exu it, you know,

698
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 11: instead of having a crewmated, and uh, all of a

699
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 11: sudden it was he wanted to have a crewmated. Why

700
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 11: and well, that's what she would want, That's what her

701
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 11: friends say that she would want. You know, she and

702
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 11: I talked about her being in a casket, and you

703
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 11: usually don't have a casket on a cremation, so him

704
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 11: and she didn't carry you know, she started that bar.

705
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 11: I don't care what you do with the just put

706
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 11: me in the box and down stainly. I can be

707
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 11: taken a quide aways, but he wanted to ClearMate it,

708
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 11: and I wasn't going to hide.

709
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: I asked Nicole her take on the insurance policies. It

710
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: was weird because I was suspicious of the insurance policies,

711
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: but then in the reports it says it was like

712
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: a mat and I don't think it matters whether it

713
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 2: was a solicitor call or Bob sat. You don't want

714
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: it to get a policy because I just think that

715
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 2: it's hard to look at this case and not consider

716
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 2: that fact, which was totally not considered by either side

717
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: of trial. So I mentioned earlier that Bob is in prison.

718
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: Now you're going to hear why.

719
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: Bob is currently residing with the Missouri Department of Corrections

720
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: serving a seven year sentence for statutory a sodomy of

721
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: a minor.

722
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 2: Anastasia's father, Bob Whitbolsfugen, is currently in a Missouri prison

723
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 2: serving a seven year sentence for statutory sodomy. The case

724
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: originates in twenty sixteen. There's a lot of back and

725
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: forth in the courts than in twenty nineteen. Bob pleads

726
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 2: guilty and is sentenced to seven years with five years

727
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: of SES, which is a suspended executed sentence. This essentially

728
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: gives Bob supervised probation for five years. If he doesn't

729
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: meet all of the conditions of his probation, then the

730
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: court will revoke his probation and give him prison time.

731
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: He also has to register as a sex offender. Here's

732
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: attorney Nicole Gordon.

733
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 7: So, I think that was an issue at one time.

734
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 7: You know, when he was first placed on probation, he

735
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 7: was allowed to have access to the young children in

736
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 7: his FAEM family with supervision, so he could be around

737
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 7: the younger kids with their parents around.

738
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 6: And then something happened and they said no.

739
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 7: They took that away specifically, And so I went to

740
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 7: a violation hearing and they had talked about previous violations

741
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 7: where drinking was an issue, and I believe pornography was

742
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 7: also an issue. But in this particular hearing, he had

743
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 7: dumped shovels in the victim's yard.

744
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: What does a mean no dumped shovels.

745
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 6: I don't know. It was just a weird thing that

746
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 6: he did that the court didn't like.

747
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: Multiple shovels.

748
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 6: Yes, the court said shovels.

749
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

750
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: Now this weird shovels thing is hearsay, right. But Nicole

751
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: sent me the notes she took and emailed to Byron's

752
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 2: other lawyers after attending Bob's probation violation hearing on the

753
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: morning of September thirtieth, twenty twenty one, and it's in

754
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: her notes, writes prosecutor accused Bob of quote very disturbing behaviors,

755
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: saying that Bob dropped off a quote pile of shovels

756
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 2: in the victim's yard. It seems after violating his probation

757
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: six times from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two. In

758
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 2: November of twenty twenty two, Bob's probation is finally revoked

759
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: and he's sentenced to the seven years. Here's investigator Quinn

760
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 2: O'Brien talking about that hearing where it all went down.

761
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 5: Like, I don't know much about the victim. I just

762
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 5: went to the probation revocation hearing and Bob's attorney put

763
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 5: him on the stand. This just I mean, when we

764
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 5: talk about getting chills, Bob was on the stand and

765
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 5: his attorney is giving him a direct examination, and the

766
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 5: attorney is asking Bob if he feels any remorse or

767
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 5: if he understands that what he did to this young

768
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 5: woman was wrong. And bob answer is that this young

769
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 5: woman isn't directly related to him. He tried to treat

770
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 5: her like one of his daughters, but he understands now

771
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 5: that because she's not his daughter, there are certain boundaries

772
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 5: that he could not cross with her. There were certain

773
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 5: things that he should not do with her in the

774
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 5: home because this young woman isn't his daughter. And I'm

775
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 5: sitting here thinking that's a confession.

776
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

777
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 5: I had always thought, given Anastasia's desperation not to move

778
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 5: back with back with her father, she clearly has some trauma.

779
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 6: She's suicidal.

780
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 5: I can't I just can't even speak it into existence.

781
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 5: It's just when Bob said on the stand that he

782
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 5: treated the young woman that he raped like he would

783
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 5: have treated his own daughters, I was horrified. I mean,

784
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 5: that's it's no I know what he did, I know

785
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 5: what he prefered to you. I know what he did,

786
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 5: and I don't think I don't think I could even

787
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 5: say it out loud. It's it's disturbing, and I know

788
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 5: that it happened more than once because who reported it?

789
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 5: She reported to her mother, and eventually her mother was

790
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 5: the one who called it in because the young girl

791
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 5: was able to identify a birthmark in a private area

792
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 5: on Bob's body that she would not have seen unless

793
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 5: Bob had his pants off in her presence. And when

794
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 5: this young person's mother heard that, it finally clicked and

795
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 5: she believed her daughter and reported it. And it's unspeakable.

796
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 5: But even during the probation revocation hearing, the prosecutor brought

797
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 5: up like this isn't the first time that you've even

798
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 5: been charged with something like this, And I was a

799
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 5: little stunned. But in Missouri, if you're not convicted of

800
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 5: a crime, if you're only charged with a crime once

801
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 5: that once you're acquitted, or if the charges are dropped,

802
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 5: that record becomes sealed, Like I can't get it. So

803
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 5: if Bob has been charged with, or been investigated for,

804
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 5: or even arrested for molesting children before this, those records

805
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 5: are going to be sealed in Missouri because he wasn't

806
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 5: convicted of them.

807
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't have a transcript of what was set

808
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: in court at Bob's final probation revocation hearing, Quinn is

809
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 2: telling me what she says she heard, Like Nicole Quinn

810
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 2: sent me her notes from that hearing. I don't see

811
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 2: anything in there about Bob saying he didn't know he

812
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: couldn't treat the victim as one of his daughters. Doesn't

813
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: mean it wasn't said. It's just not in Quinn's notes.

814
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: What is in Quinn's notes is that Bob blames this

815
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: situation on his daughter's death, and that Bob says, quote,

816
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: I am the problem. He says, even his daughters point

817
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: out to him, he is the problem. One interesting detail

818
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: that may mean absolutely nothing is that the attorney who

819
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: represented Bob at these hearings is the same attorney who

820
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 2: represented Kelly when she came forward. Anyway, just because Bob

821
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 2: is in prison for doing what he pled guilty to doing,

822
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 2: which sounds like it was pretty awful, doesn't mean he

823
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: has done anything else to anyone else, and it especially

824
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: doesn't mean he did anything to Anastasia. But Byron's team says,

825
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: although there are several things that make them suspicious of Bob,

826
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: like Deputy Eperson's reports, the stories Betsy shared, and why

827
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 2: he is currently incarcerated. There is also someone else who

828
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 2: is on their radar, Patrick Rock. We talked about Patrick

829
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 2: Rock in episode three. He is a close family friend

830
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: and has referred to himself as at times as Anastasia's

831
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: godfather and adoptive uncle. He started and still maintains the

832
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: Anastasia Memorial website. He also emailed several times with Byron

833
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: on behalf of himself and Bob. Here's Nicole again.

834
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 6: Pet Rock is a family friend.

835
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 7: He inserted himself in the investigation, primarily with about the

836
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 7: reward and starting the website. Managing the website, he would

837
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 7: call and ask Kilgore, Hey, I'm going to post this information.

838
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 7: I'm going to post this article. And I think that

839
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 7: there was tension there, but not like it was with Bob.

840
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 7: Can I also add something?

841
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 3: Yeah?

842
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 7: Bob asked Sergeant Kilgore whether pat had an alibi and

843
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 7: told him that if she had made it to a pavement,

844
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 7: she knew his number by heart and she would have

845
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 7: called him.

846
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 6: We know that they spoke often.

847
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 7: Pat Rock said that he spoke with Anastasia the monday

848
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 7: before she died. She had called him in the evening

849
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 7: to confide in him about what was going on. And

850
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 7: so Pat Rock is at someone that kill or would

851
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 7: want to talk to and officially get on the record.

852
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 7: But that doesn't happen.

853
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: Were phone records Were their phone records ever pulled in

854
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: this case? No, that's right.

855
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: No phone records were pulled in this case at all.

856
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: Not Justin's phone records, Byron's phone records, Kelly's phone records,

857
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 2: or Bob's phone records. Not the dairy Queen's payphone records,

858
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: the records for the payphone at the gas station where

859
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 2: two people allegedly said they saw a young woman use

860
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: the phone, Not the phone records from the Phillips sixty

861
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 2: sixth station in Kansas where Justin called Anastasia's house, the

862
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 2: same gas station where Kelly said she called Anastasia. They

863
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: also didn't pull Byron's beeper records. Sergeant Kilgore never had

864
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: any of those records pulled. Okay, Back to Patrick Rock,

865
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 2: Anastasia's mom, Betsy Owens, talks about him in that interview

866
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 2: with Kilgore on November seventh, nineteen ninety seven. Here she

867
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: is talking about some of her conversations with Anastasia in

868
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: the three days leading up to her death, which included

869
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 2: how Anastasia didn't want to talk about God.

870
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 8: And we believe that I attributed to this one thing.

871
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 8: Pat Rock. I checked his name on there, who has

872
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 8: an atheist and has been kind of an usual friend

873
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 8: with the family.

874
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 10: I did not approve of him. I've been keeping.

875
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 8: Kids away from when Bob had it been it's like

876
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 8: one of the kid's birthdays this weekend, and his brother

877
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 8: calm and keep this guy away for the kids.

878
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: That's he just said.

879
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 2: At one of the kid's birthdays that week, Bob's brother

880
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: told him to keep Patrick away from the kids, but

881
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: Bob was going to let them see him over at

882
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: his house. Betsy then says she told one of her

883
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 2: brothers she thought Patrick was quote a latent pedophile. Here's Nicole, but.

884
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 6: She's suspicious, she says.

885
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 7: Betsy tells Detective Kilgore that her Bob's brother, Hugo, is

886
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 7: also suspicious that Pat Rock had approached Bob at a

887
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 7: party that they were all at and told Bob to

888
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 7: keep the girls away from Pat Rock.

889
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 2: Although Betsy and perhaps Bob's brother are suspicious of Patrick Rock,

890
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 2: there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Patrick Rock

891
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 2: is or ever was, a pedophile. Attorney Brian Russell says,

892
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 2: but wait, there may be two more reasons why Kilgore

893
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: should have paid more attention to him during the investigation.

894
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: Family had said Anastasia's family had said at the time

895
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 3: that if she called for a ride, she would have

896
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 3: called Pat Rock. Pat Rock changed his phone number the

897
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 3: day after her body was found. We also know that

898
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 3: he was involved in the Negro Leagues. In Kansas City,

899
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: there's a Negro League's museum and he was kind of

900
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 3: an amateur historian for that, and one of the things

901
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 3: we found in our investigation is that he liked to

902
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 3: go try to find graves of Negro League players and

903
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 3: Lincoln Cemetery is a historically black cemetery. Charlie Parker is

904
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 3: buried there and four Negro League players are buried in

905
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 3: Lincoln Cemetery. There's a working theory that he could have

906
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 3: been familiar with the cemetery, and when we went out

907
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 3: there one day to see if we could locate some

908
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 3: of those headstones for those players, we spent a significant

909
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 3: amount of time wandering around looking at greystones. And it's

910
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 3: hard to do in that cemetery because so because the

911
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 3: gravestones are all flat, dirt has gathered on a lot

912
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 3: of them, and there's even grass growing on a lot

913
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 3: of them, so sometimes you could step on a headstone

914
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 3: and not even realize you're on a headstone and you

915
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 3: have to clear it off. And we were doing that

916
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 3: for a decent amount of time before we were like, okay,

917
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 3: this is kind of pointless. Literally, as we were about

918
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 3: to give up, I looked down and found one of

919
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 3: them right there, and we measured it off and it

920
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: was like about sixty feet away from where Anastasia's body

921
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 3: was found. Maybe another coincidence of the many that are

922
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 3: in this case.

923
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: Where is Pat Rock today?

924
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 7: Pat Rock lives in Ukraine, moved there six months ago

925
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 7: with his girlfriend possibly wife, who's from Ukraine.

926
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: I write to.

927
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: Patrick Rock in Ukraine requesting an interview. He responds and

928
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 2: declines to talk on the phone or over zoom, but

929
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 2: says he might be willing to answer my questions via email,

930
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: but because he is skeptical and cynical about my intent,

931
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: he first gives me homework.

932
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: He wants me to review.

933
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: All of the evidence on the stasia dot org website

934
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: that he says proves Byron is guilty. Here is some

935
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: of his first email to me, we've hired an actor

936
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 2: to read it.

937
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 13: Please be assured that we all firmly believe in the

938
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 13: jury's final verdict. I established the case against case webpage

939
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 13: to answer many of the half truths and misinformation provided

940
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 13: by supporters. I would hope you have already viewed it

941
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 13: before having contacted any of us.

942
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: Patrick goes on to talk about Justin Bruton's death, saying

943
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: it wasn't fully investigated and there might be evidence that

944
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 2: contradicts or clouds the ruling of a probable suicide.

945
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: Patrick says, the.

946
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 13: Truth is that the investigation into his death was ruined

947
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 13: by the first officer who found his body. Body and

948
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 13: the weapon were moved, the grass around the scene was trampled.

949
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 13: The entire crime scene was absolutely tainted.

950
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: I read the link Patrick sent me about Justin's death.

951
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: To me, there's nothing that seems to point to anything

952
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 2: other than suicide. In fact, the coroner said the manner

953
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 2: of death was suicide, not probable suicide, like Patrick states.

954
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: Then mister Rock mentions something that Byron wrote.

955
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 13: A bizarre short fiction he wrote and placed on his

956
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 13: website between the time of the murder and his arrest,

957
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 13: in which he told his own fictionalized version of the

958
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 13: murder placed one hundred years in the past.

959
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: Now this is true.

960
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 2: It seems Byron wrote letters to a fictitious mister White

961
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: in sort of a Charles Dickens's voice and old fashioned font.

962
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: There are also the faces of Justin Kelly in Anastasia

963
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 2: photoshopped onto Victorian era clothed bodies. The letters are dated

964
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 2: with various months and days, but no years. Patrick says

965
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: they were written between the time of the murder and

966
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 2: Byron's arrest. I don't know when Byron actually wrote them, anyway.

967
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: In these letters, Byron writes about a lot of things,

968
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 2: including introducing Anastasia and Justin being enamored with Kelly, Kelly's

969
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: alleged infidelity, working at a restaurant, and the deaths of Anastasia,

970
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 2: Justin and his dad. Basically, he tells the same story

971
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: he always has, just set in another time.

972
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: But in one letter he.

973
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: Writes he is quote quite adept at excuses, and that

974
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 2: quote this shall no doubt be my undoing. Someday I

975
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: email Byron about this, and he writes, in part quote

976
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 2: what have come to be called mister White letters, which

977
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 2: I always considered the Gray letters, actually were all written

978
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 2: for my personal website.

979
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: It was partly a.

980
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 2: Way for me to put the past in its place,

981
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: describing different periods of my life in three distinct shades,

982
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: each of which represented a particular era. Black represented my

983
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 2: dark history, specific with drug use. Gray represented the more

984
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: recent past and explored the pain of loss. White represented

985
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: the present and an overcoming of all that came before.

986
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 2: It was all very cathartic and clearly beyond anyone's ability

987
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: to comprehend outside of the light cast on it by

988
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 2: the guilty verdict at my trial. Back to Patrick Rock's

989
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 2: email to me, he goes on to say, quote.

990
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 13: I met Byron Case while Anastasia was alive. I knew

991
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 13: the details of their relationship with each other, going back

992
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 13: to their high school days, and I communicated with him

993
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 13: sporadically in an adversarial manner at his instigation following her murder.

994
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 13: Until I attended his trial and heard the evidence myself,

995
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 13: I did not know whether he was guilty or not.

996
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 13: Sitting and listening for those four days convinced me of

997
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 13: his guilt. Patrick continues, as much as I love Denistasia,

998
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 13: I see my duty these days as to protect society

999
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 13: by working to count of the misinformation or kill her

1000
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 13: support or spread. I cannot bring her back. He killed

1001
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 13: her more than a quarter century ago. He killed her yesterday,

1002
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 13: he will kill her tomorrow. It is a sorrow and

1003
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 13: loss with which I live every day. I do not

1004
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 13: receive any joy from his suffering. But I believe he

1005
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 13: would have killed again by now, perhaps more than just

1006
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 13: a second time, had he not been put safely away

1007
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 13: twenty three years ago. But having personally been slandered and

1008
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 13: cyberstock more than once by a number of his friends

1009
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 13: and family. I hope you understand my reluctance to get

1010
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 13: more involved in your project without some better idea of

1011
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 13: its intent.

1012
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: After that email, I get another one from Patrick. He

1013
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 2: says he's writing because he's heard that I went to

1014
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: Kelly's mom's house and harassed her. Patrick says the FBC

1015
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: Free Byron Case group has been harassing all of them,

1016
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 2: especially Kelly, for years. In fact, Kelly also emails accusing

1017
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 2: me of harassing her mother. In one email, Kelly writes, quote,

1018
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 2: when you were a little girl, is this how you

1019
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 2: pictured your career as a journalist? Harassing the family and

1020
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: friends of an eighteen year old girl who was gunned

1021
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 2: down by people she trusted.

1022
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: You must be so.

1023
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 2: Proud, I assure Patrick and Kelly in multiple emails, they

1024
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 2: are mistaken.

1025
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't me.

1026
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 2: I have never been to Debera Moffatt's house. I've never

1027
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 2: spoken with her. That's not how I operate. I'm an

1028
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 2: independent journalist and aligned with no one. Eventually, Kelly believes

1029
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: me and apologizes. Still, I was quite upset by the

1030
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 2: whole thing, so I asked Byron's legal team if they

1031
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 2: went to Deborah Moffatt's house, and to my surprise, they

1032
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 2: say yes they did. They send me a statement which

1033
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 2: explains that they went there looking for Kelly, but there

1034
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 2: was no harassment or intimidation. They said they talked to

1035
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: Deborah and the exchange lasted about three minutes and was conversational.

1036
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 6: They said they left their.

1037
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 2: Business card so it was clear who they were and

1038
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 2: why they were there. Then they said, quote, the evidence

1039
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 2: is very clear that Byron Case is innocent of the

1040
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,919
Speaker 2: crime for which he has spent more than twenty years

1041
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 2: in prison. We will continue working on his case, and

1042
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 2: we will continue to act ethically and with integrity within

1043
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 2: the legal system to correct this injustice. Sean and Quin O'Brien.

1044
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 2: Needless to say, this whole alleged harassing of Deborah Moffatt

1045
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 2: thing gets in the way of me asking Patrick some

1046
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: very important things. I eventually send him my list of questions.

1047
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 2: I hope he will respond. In the meantime, this needs

1048
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 2: to be said and heard loud and clear. Neither Bob Whitbulesfugen,

1049
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 2: nor Patrick Rock have ever been charged or convicted of

1050
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 2: anything related to Anastasia's death.

1051
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 5: Even if Bob Whitble's Fugen is a child molester, I

1052
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 5: don't know if he's a murderer and to have murdered

1053
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 5: his daughter, and I just can't fathom that a father

1054
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 5: would do that to his daughter.

1055
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: Next time on the Real Killer.

1056
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 7: We know from what Don Wright told us that Anasasia

1057
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 7: was wearing socks, Birkenstock like styled sandals and baggy blue jeans.

1058
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 7: Those aren't the clothes she was found in.

1059
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: The sixty four thousand dollars. Question is this did Anastasia

1060
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 2: go home that.

1061
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 3: Night where Bob says I found her blue jeans in

1062
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 3: the washing machine. I found a pair of her underwear

1063
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 3: soaking in the utilities sink.

1064
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 6: That's what she was.

1065
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 3: Wearing at Dairy Queen and if those made at home,

1066
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 3: that means she went home, and if she went home,

1067
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 3: Byron didn't do it.

1068
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1069
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 2: those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you,

1070
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 2: or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,

1071
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: please no help is available. Call or text nine to

1072
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 2: eight eight, or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis

1073
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: Lifelines website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To

1074
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 2: see photos, maps and documents related to this season's story,

1075
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 2: follow The Real Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK

1076
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 2: podcast on TikTok. The Real Killer is a production of

1077
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 2: AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive

1078
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 2: producers Leah Rothman and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written

1079
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggy,

1080
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 2: mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine,

1081
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 2: Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Voice acting

1082
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 2: by Art Garza. Legal council for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas,

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Speaker 2: Executive producer for iHeartMedia.

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01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: Maya Howard