WEBVTT - 4. Ice Cold 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.240 Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:08.600 not be suitable for all listeners. When I investigate these cases, 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.400 my first task is to earn the trust of victims, 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.120 loved ones, and law enforcement. I have to prove that 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.000 I'm not some bloodsucking parasite, just here for a few 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.280 days to extract trauma, microwave it and pop out watery 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.720 entertainment trash. So many people hate the media, and I 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.880 get it. I've been on both sides, interviewer interviewee. I've 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.040 seen media repeatedly get things wrong, and when you read, 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.840 or watch or hear something false reported as fact, of course, 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.240 you're going to lose trust. Many years ago, I quit 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.280 grad school and gave up on the idea of a 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.199 full time journalism career. I left my apartment in New 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.120 York and moved to a shack in Oregon. My journey 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.720 back is bizarre, a ten year odyssey, culminating in season 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:54.280 one Missing in Alaska. Now I'm free. Here's what I see. 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.680 I see a news industry self immolating at the altar 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.480 of objectivity, leach the value by private equity and big 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:06.160 tech captive to insincere bias accusations as its favorability sinks 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.880 into the sewer alongside Pennywise, who at this point might 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.640 be more trusted. I see media busses preach free speech 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.920 than muscle employees with opinions, or worse, hire employees who 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:23.120 have none, vanilla automaton scribes. I see a bipolar political media, 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:28.280 either sycophantic or unnecessarily pugilistic. I see hack profiteers in 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.280 charge of the entertainment industry, doltish gatekeepers breaking the bones 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.800 of narrative innovation. I see entertainment companies put up pride 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:40.120 flags while funding demagogues. I also see thousands of local 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.560 and regional reporters working hard for little pay because they 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.720 care about their communities. I hope you see them too. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.840 In the true crime industry, I see predatory sponges who 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.880 soak up other people's labor and squeeze out uncredited derivative 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.120 works for clout and cash. In the process. They have 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.600 I suppose created a new genre half true crime. Take 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.080 Crime Junkie, one of the most popular shows in the world, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.040 A show that faced repeated allegations of plagiarism, A show 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.520 that won Best Crime Podcast at this year's iHeart Podcast Awards. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.480 In twenty eighteen, Crime Junkie did an episode on Robert Fisher. 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.360 Here's some of what they said. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.440 Robert Fisher was off work on April ninth, two thousand 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.640 and one. False and spent the day installing attic insulation 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.000 false and got an oil change false. That evening, he 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.000 took his daughter Brittany to a church event. 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:34.520 False. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.280 Police suspect he used gasoline to help burn down his house. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:38.800 False. 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.120 It took hours for the house to burn down. 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:41.519 False. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.160 He frequented strip clubs. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:43.560 False. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.880 He had a black lab named Blue false. Who shows 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.600 up in home videos false. Mary's forerunner was wiped clean. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:51.080 False. 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.560 There wasn't a single fingerprint, hair, or fiber on or 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:55.959 in it. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:56.440 False. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.960 Police found footprints leading from the suv to a case. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:00.760 False. 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.680 Spelunkers searched the cave with robot cameras. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.840 False. I understand that I have the luxury of spending 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.519 years on a single story. I find details others miss 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.120 in this case, I don't blame Arizona reporters, the police, 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.440 or the FBI for making mistakes. They worked hard in 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.840 two thousand and one, and they're too busy wrangling today's chaos. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.080 To focus full time on the past. On the other hand, 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.240 I have no problem calling out entertainers who can't even 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.120 get basic facts correct but go on to fame and 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:35.880 fortune by freeloading off actual journalists. They are toxic copy 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.960 and pasters who perpetuate myths and pollute case canon. They 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.640 do tangible harm, and they waste your time. You can't 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:48.200 solve mysteries with fake clues. For example, the footprints allegedly 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.960 found leading from Mary's suv to a cave fascinating if true, 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.080 but it's not. Why should you care? Well? If I 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.240 say police found footprints from the suv to a cave, 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.480 but no return tracks, you might think understandably that Robert 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.680 died by suicide in the cave. His body must be 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.760 in there somewhere. But if I say no, that's false, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.040 your mind opens up. Maybe he's alive, and maybe you'll 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.520 help us look for him. The small stuff matters. Details matter. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.080 From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three. I'm John Walzac and 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.320 this is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.920 who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.560 up their suburban home and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.799 three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:51.960 your help. The early confused days of this case gave 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.720 birth to myths that persist today, including the man in 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.920 the woods and the footprints the man in the wood. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.520 We received information from a witness, as citizen who had 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.520 observed what he thought to be the vehicle of mister 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.800 Fisher and the dog of mister Fisher, and in fact 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.200 saw a person that he thought was mister Fisher. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.240 This statement about a mystery man in the woods is incorrect. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.200 It's based on erroneous early reports. Right now, all indications 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:21.279 are that he is alive. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.000 We know he was seen yesterday morning at eleven by 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.840 the witness, the original witness, and that he's on the move. 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.800 Notice how a vague sighting got more specific. We know 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:36.120 the witness saw Fisher yesterday at eleven am. That's false, Greg, 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.400 the camper who found the suv never saw anyone in 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.320 the woods. Meanwhile, the Arizona Republic reported that pilots with 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.880 the state Department of Public Safety or DPS, also saw 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.760 the man in the woods near a cave. Quote a 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.320 man was spotted on the ground between the truck and 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.200 the cave. He appeared aware that the police helicopter was overhead. 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.120 It was unclear whether the man was armed or how 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.720 long he had been in the area. This is false. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.880 The pilots didn't see anyone. My goal here is not 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.640 to humiliate law enforcement. In fact, debunking this myth makes 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.159 them look better. Early on, they were heavily criticized for 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.120 flying over the suv before reaching it on the ground, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.279 possibly alerting Fisher that they found him, giving him time 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.880 to run. But since the man in the woods is 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.760 myth not fact, this is moot. I'm also not trying 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.479 to slam the Arizona Republic. Reporters covering breaking news do 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.160 their best to determine which rumors are true. Sometimes they 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.200 make mistakes. It's okay to admit that to fix it. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.159 The problem is that the original false version often lives 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:45.039 on no matter what. This is also true of the footprints. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.800 The grid search covered approximately five hundred yards and a 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.479 one mile square trying to locate any footprint. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.919 Everyone scans dirt and snow looking for tracks. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.440 In fact, a helicopter search of the area spotted footprints 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.800 where Fisher's current dog were found on Friday. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.800 A track that has been found leaving the area where 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:04.480 the truck was. 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.120 Wait, they did find footprints, Yes, they. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.360 Did, a mile or so south of the truck. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.880 A mile from the suv, not leading from the suv 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:14.880 to a cave. 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.240 Going down into the reservation area. The tracks went down, 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:19.640 but there was no tracks coming back out. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:21.880 The size of their boot trim size thirteen. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:23.200 I don't know if it's him. 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:27.160 It's not something about his physical appearance that nobody ever mentions, 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:28.440 as he had small feet. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.280 John Roden, a Fisher family friend, he had. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.559 Like size eight feet unusual. Really, Yeah, and you cannot 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:37.000 change your feet size that much. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.160 Mary Beth Rodin, John's wife, how sure are you that 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:40.920 it was size eight? 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:41.800 Is that a guess? 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.200 I'm pretty sure. If it wasn't size eight, it was 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.040 size nine, which is still small. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:47.520 It was not size thirteen. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.200 No, it was not even size little bitty feet. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.200 When they found the forerunner, they found a set of 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.600 size thirteen prints leading away from it. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.239 Those were not his feet. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.240 And let's say, I have a long list of questions, 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.160 and this was one that I just didn't think anybody 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:04.720 would remember his shoe size. 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.480 Because it was weird. Yeah, we won hunting. We shared 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.160 a tent with him as like, wow, you got small feet. 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.400 So the Rodents say Robert wore an eight to nine shoe. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.720 In addition, the sneakers police found in his worklocker were 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.120 a nine point five. Neither is even close to at thirteen. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:25.200 In the end, myth, police found Robert Fisher's footprints leading 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.240 from Mary's fore runner to a cave. Verdict. Police did 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:33.920 find prince size thirteen a mile away, likely left by 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:39.360 someone scavenging for elk antlers. Myth. The Arizona DPS pilots 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.080 and Greg the camper saw the man in the woods, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:49.000 probably Robert Fisher. Verdict false. A few weeks after the 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.840 search ends, HeLa County Detective Brian Hay boards a helicopter 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:53.920 in Payson. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.120 And then we flew at nighttime over the entire area 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:58.720 looking for campfires. 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:04.280 Eyes, you're in a helicopter flying under a blanket of stars, 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.640 trying to spot flickering dots in a vast obsidian forest. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.360 Nights up there can be rather cool. Maybe he would 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.960 have a campfire that we could pinpoint and with GPS 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.240 located five to seven them. And then we followed up 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.080 on foot and patrol vehicles. What area did you search 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:28.200 virtually all the woods within three or four miles five miles. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.320 Of the fore runner, and none of those leads spand 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.280 out no On May eleventh, two thousand and one, police 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.800 finally track down Greg, the camper who located Mary's four 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:42.240 runner twenty two days earlier. Greg left Arizona before they 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.839 can meet him in person, so they interview him by 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.040 phone at his brother's house in Oregon. They find him 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.720 highly suspicious. Why did he flee so quickly? Why did 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.960 he disappear for weeks? Did he help Robert escape? Four 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.439 days later, they get copies of security tapes from cameras 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.000 at the gas station where Greg used a payphone to 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.040 call his friends, who in turn called the police. There's 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.160 no sign of Greg or Robert on the tapes. May 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:14.760 twenty eighth, Memorial Day, A Blazing Summer begins. June twenty third, 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.280 twenty eight year old Honey Hanjor joins a flight simulator 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.880 club in Phoenix. Soon he'll pilot a plane into the Pentagon. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.520 July tenth, a Phoenix FBI agent pens a memo warning 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.920 of the possibility of a coordinated effort by Osama bin 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.920 Laden to send students to the US to attend civil 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:38.760 aviation schools. July nineteenth, the Maricopa County Attorney's Office releases 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.360 an indictment charging Robert Fisher with murder and arson. The 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.560 longer he evades authorities, the more he melts into state lore, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.480 a homicidal phantom wandering the wilderness alongside the likes of 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.680 the Muggy On Monster, Arizona's Bigfoot. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.720 His suv may have been found, but triple murder suspect 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.720 Robert Fisher has never been located. With that in mind, 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.160 he County authorities are planning a second all out man 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.480 hunt for Fisher in hopes of finding him dead or alive. 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.080 Robert Fisher is the primary suspect and the murder of 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.360 his wife and two children, whose bodies were found in 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.800 their burning Scottsdale home last April. Scottsdale police say the 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.599 home was rigged to explode in order to hide the homicides. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.760 Even though Fisher hasn't been seen since the incident, Scottsdale 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.079 police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.960 You know, we have to base our investigations on fact, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.280 and we have no evidence to show that Rappert Fisher 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:35.600 is dead. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.679 He may or may not be living somewhere in that area. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.080 Nothing would please us more than to find the body. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.520 The search is scheduled for August and is being billed 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.280 as a quote training exercise, but it will, no doubt 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.439 focus on the numerous caves found in the area where 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.920 Fisher's SUV was discovered. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.280 But the thirch never takes place. The HeLa County Sheriff 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.640 cancels it, saying, quote, we've turned up no new leads. 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.600 We're satisfied that the chances he's up there are slim 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.920 to none. August eleventh, nearly seven million people watch America's 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.880 Most Wanted, which features a four minute segment on Fisher. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:18.280 It generates fifty two new leads. August eighteenth, five forty 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.680 nine PM, a man calls the TV tip line from 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.920 Pietro's Italian restaurant in Chester, Virginia, just south of Richmond. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.240 This is Robert Fisher. He says, you'll never catch me. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.920 I'm glad I killed the bitch. The call is brief, 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.600 it isn't recorded. Scott Steel Detective John Kirkham tells the 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.000 media quote, some things were said in the call that 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.920 led us to believe it was Robert Fisher. Police in 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.120 Virginia find no proof the caller was actually Fisher. For 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.000 a time, they stake out the restaurant to no avail. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.640 September tenth, two thousand and one, the Arizona Republic runs 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.720 a quick update quote officials now concede he meaning Fisher 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:01.120 may be dead. Nine to eleven. We just had a. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.199 Plane crash and grew up before all the World. 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.559 Trade sent to transmit a second alarm. 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.680 And starving little katy companies into the area. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:11.679 Yeah, Hi, hey, tho, she fell a baller from the 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:12.160 two to one. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.360 Yeah, you guys should call them Anhattan dispatch and let 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.320 him know. I had never seen so much smoke coming 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.040 through a film as I speak in the World Trades 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.160 and up by the water upon it. It's unbelievable. 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:22.240 They have the art on the news. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.200 Stations, but they only gave a second larn there. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.160 It's like to set the long spee on it. They 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.079 should go to a fifth instantly with the he goes 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.400 to the side of the building. It looks like the 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:37.400 numerous flaws exploded out. It's it's insane right now as 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.240 somebody answer to every available ablist that they could possibly 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.960 get over there, This is going to be the event 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:45.760 of the century. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.800 Only a month after America's Most Wanted elevates Fisher to 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.600 national prominence, nine to eleven wipes him away. He falls 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.480 into a fugitive sweet spot. The post nine to eleven, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.960 pre social media, pre smartphone, don'nut whole, federal resources and 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.959 public attention turned to terrorism. On October twenty fifth, as 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.840 the US bombs the Taliban in Afghanistan, Detective Kirkham tells 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.720 the Arizona Republic that Fisher is likely alive. Quote. I 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.840 don't believe that he's up in the woods. I don't 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.800 believe that he committed suicide. He was not intent on 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.720 taking his own life. His intent was to take care 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.920 of his problem and move on with his life. No remorse, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.680 no regret. He's probably living in another state and working 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.360 at some menial job. I think that we'll probably find him. 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.560 It may be tomorrow, it may be years down the road. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.480 It depends on us finding the mistake he made that 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.280 we haven't picked up on yet, or on him making 0:14:41.320 --> 0:15:09.360 a mistake. In February two thousand and two, the FBI 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:10.280 joins the case. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.080 I was the first agent assigned. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.640 Robert Caldwell Scott Sell came to. 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.040 The FBI to help find Inzana Probo cause to believe 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.200 he fled the state. So therefore the FBI now has 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.400 jurisdiction to assist them. If a fugitive fled the state, 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.960 it's called unwulf of flight to void prosecution. So they 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.240 came to us, sat down with their detectives. We went 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.960 through everything, developed a ton of leads, came up with 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.680 some investigative strategies, and went to work. 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:39.000 Caldwell starts digging into Fisher's past, including his childhood. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.480 Nothing came up that was ever like he was a 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.000 trouble kid, or did drugs. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:44.960 Or killed animals. 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:46.400 No, nothing at all. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.000 Caldwell immediately knows that the case is cooler than cool. 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.360 It's ice cold. Publicity is key. On April fourth, two 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.960 thousand and two days before the first anniversary of the murders, 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.600 he and Detective Kirkham hosts the one hour public chat 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.840 on FBI dot gov. Two months later, the bureau deploys 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:07.800 its most valuable pr weapon. 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.760 Fisher is still very much a priority with the FBI. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.480 He's on the ten most wanted list, right along with 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.440 the likes of Osama bin Laden, Eric Rudolph. 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.600 There is Robert William Fisher. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.840 At the time, Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber, is 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.560 hiding in the forested mountains of North Carolina. Bin Laden 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.920 is on the run in Afghanistan or Pakistan. His last 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:33.000 known location was the Tora Bora Cave complex. Rudolph is 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.800 arrested in two thousand and three. Bin Laden dies in 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.760 twenty eleven. Only Fisher remains free. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.520 Forty two year old Robert Fisher is a fugitive. He 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.720 is a phantom. He is a hunting figure in the 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.840 history of Arizona. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.920 On August seventh, two thousand and two, the Arizona Republic 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.760 runs a poll on its website, what do you think 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.480 happened to Robert Fisher escaped and is living in the US? 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.800 Eighty percent himself after the murders, nine percent still in Arizona, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.800 seven percent died of exposure while on the run shortly 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:12.080 after the murders four percent. The next few years, Speed 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.800 by the US invades Iraq, Facebook launches, Hurricane Katrina hits 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.480 New Orleans, Kanye the Killers, and Taylor Swift break into 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.359 pop culture. Nothing much happens with the Fisher case. In 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.880 April two thousand and six. At the five year mark, 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.840 Detective Kirkham tells the Republic quote, no one believes he's 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.320 dead in a cave. We would have found some trace 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.800 of his body by now. Three months later, Kirkham, only 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:42.359 forty seven, dies of a stroke. Summer two thousand and six, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.840 multiple serial killers stalk the Phoenix Metro, including the Baseline 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:48.960 Killer and the serial shooter. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.040 I was heavily involved in that investigation. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:53.880 Scottsdale Lieutenant Hugh Lockerbye. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.280 These guys running around Phoenix to shooting at people and 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:57.120 killing them. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.960 The serial shooter, not to be confused with the Phoenix 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.920 Ceial Street shooter, the Phoenix Freeway shooter, or the Scottsdale 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.880 spree shooter different cases. Ends up being two men meth 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.320 fueld roommates who kill eight people, including one in Scottsdale. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.520 Police arrest them on August third, two thousand and six. 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.280 A month later, they identify and arrest the Baseline killer 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.920 with the help of Stephen Pitt, a forensic psychiatrist, who 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.919 himself is murdered in twenty eighteen by the Scottsdale spree shooter. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.800 I don't want to give you the wrong idea Despite 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.280 a few high profile crimes, Scottsdale is for the most part, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.080 incredibly safe. In twenty twenty three, with a population of 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.400 two hundred and forty five thousand, it had one homicide. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.720 It's very much a metropolitan area, just a suburb of Phoenix. 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.159 Here we are in Phoenix, Arizona. 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.720 Yeah, excuse me, Scott Steel, Arizona. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:50.320 Pardon me. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.880 For a while, the Fisher case is in limbo. Police 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.760 are busy chasing serial killers. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.359 But by two thousand and seven, I take it over 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:03.480 and I'd meet Bob call Immerse myself talking to the family. 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.840 Members, including Mary's dad, Bill Cooper. Two years later, in 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:13.280 December two thousand and nine, Bill dies. April twenty third, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.320 twenty eleven, the Arizona Republic headline FBI manhans still on 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.399 for Robert Fisher, suspect and murders in one likely is alive. 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.399 Agent Caldwell says, quote, all our evidence has been that 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.800 he's the kind of guy who wouldn't go kill himself. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.480 He took a lot of belongings from the home, clothing, guns, 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.560 like he was moving himself out. None of that stuff 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.000 was found in the vehicle. He's out there hunting fishing, 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.199 chewing tobacco with a sore back. In the lobby of 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.760 the FBI's Phoenix office, a wanted poster of Fisher hangs 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:50.080 directly above Osama bin Laden. Nine days later, Navy seals 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.840 kill bin Laden in Pakistan. In April twenty twelve, the 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.800 Pacin Roundup reports that the FBI quote believes Fisher may 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.760 be living in the Blue Ridge Reservoir area as a hermit, 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.960 or squatting in a trailer cabin or an old home 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.439 in the woods. Fisher walks with an exaggerated upright walk, 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.000 has a bad back, probably has long hair, and is 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:16.160 homeless looking. In twenty fourteen, Hugh Lockerbie, then a detective, 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.800 tells the Arizona Republic Fisher is likely living somewhere out 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:25.560 west New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, Arizona, even Canada, quote anywhere 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.040 where he can hunt fish keep a low profile. In 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.600 twenty sixteen, at the fifteen year mark, the FBI releases 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.919 ads progressed images of Fisher. There's no reason to believe 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:40.080 he's dead, they say. Bob Caldwell later retires, but he 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.639 remains deeply invested in this case and retains a strong 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:45.680 personal animosity towards Fisher. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.919 He thinks he's a real man's man when he's not. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.680 He's not a ladies man. He's kind of a failure 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.160 of life. He's a bully to women. I don't think 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.720 he's got the guts to come forward. He's a piece 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:57.399 of shit. If he is alive, he needs to be 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.760 brought to justice. And I don't care if there's somebody 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.440 else out there that's like, well, he's good to me. 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:02.919 Whatever. 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.800 No, there's a bigger picture here now. He's going to 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:07.919 get his justice one day. It's going to be up 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.560 there or down there, whichever, but it's going to. 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:12.280 Happen one day. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.320 But he needs to get his justice here first. 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.440 In Scottsdale, Hugh Lockerby is promoted from detective to lieutenant. 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.880 He began his career as a patrol officer whose beat 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.639 included the Fisher House. In fact, he was working the 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:25.680 night of the murders. 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:28.200 I wonder how close I was to Fisher, Like I 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.600 wish I could retrace my steps. How close did I 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.960 drive by his house? How close did I drive by 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:33.639 the bank? 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:34.640 Did I pass him? 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:35.600 When he was leaving town? 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.240 On November third, twenty twenty one, the FBI removes Fisher 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.760 from its ten most Wanted list. According to the Associated Press, 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:48.560 he's only the eleventh person since nineteen fifty removed before apprehension, death, 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.320 or dismissal of charges, and that more or less brings 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.040 us to today. The current investigators are Scott Steel, Detective 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.280 John Heinzelman, an FBI special agent. Taylor Hannah tell me 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.080 the FBI's official position on whether or not Robert Fisher 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:04.080 is a lot or dead. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.400 There is no official position. My background is in science. 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.320