Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may
Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. When I investigate these cases,
Speaker 1: my first task is to earn the trust of victims,
Speaker 1: loved ones, and law enforcement. I have to prove that
Speaker 1: I'm not some bloodsucking parasite, just here for a few
Speaker 1: days to extract trauma, microwave it and pop out watery
Speaker 1: entertainment trash. So many people hate the media, and I
Speaker 1: get it. I've been on both sides, interviewer interviewee. I've
Speaker 1: seen media repeatedly get things wrong, and when you read,
Speaker 1: or watch or hear something false reported as fact, of course,
Speaker 1: you're going to lose trust. Many years ago, I quit
Speaker 1: grad school and gave up on the idea of a
Speaker 1: full time journalism career. I left my apartment in New
Speaker 1: York and moved to a shack in Oregon. My journey
Speaker 1: back is bizarre, a ten year odyssey, culminating in season
Speaker 1: one Missing in Alaska. Now I'm free. Here's what I see.
Speaker 1: I see a news industry self immolating at the altar
Speaker 1: of objectivity, leach the value by private equity and big
Speaker 1: tech captive to insincere bias accusations as its favorability sinks
Speaker 1: into the sewer alongside Pennywise, who at this point might
Speaker 1: be more trusted. I see media busses preach free speech
Speaker 1: than muscle employees with opinions, or worse, hire employees who
Speaker 1: have none, vanilla automaton scribes. I see a bipolar political media,
Speaker 1: either sycophantic or unnecessarily pugilistic. I see hack profiteers in
Speaker 1: charge of the entertainment industry, doltish gatekeepers breaking the bones
Speaker 1: of narrative innovation. I see entertainment companies put up pride
Speaker 1: flags while funding demagogues. I also see thousands of local
Speaker 1: and regional reporters working hard for little pay because they
Speaker 1: care about their communities. I hope you see them too.
Speaker 1: In the true crime industry, I see predatory sponges who
Speaker 1: soak up other people's labor and squeeze out uncredited derivative
Speaker 1: works for clout and cash. In the process. They have
Speaker 1: I suppose created a new genre half true crime. Take
Speaker 1: Crime Junkie, one of the most popular shows in the world,
Speaker 1: A show that faced repeated allegations of plagiarism, A show
Speaker 1: that won Best Crime Podcast at this year's iHeart Podcast Awards.
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, Crime Junkie did an episode on Robert Fisher.
Speaker 1: Here's some of what they said.
Speaker 2: Robert Fisher was off work on April ninth, two thousand
Speaker 2: and one. False and spent the day installing attic insulation
Speaker 2: false and got an oil change false. That evening, he
Speaker 2: took his daughter Brittany to a church event.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: Police suspect he used gasoline to help burn down his house.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: It took hours for the house to burn down.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: He frequented strip clubs.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: He had a black lab named Blue false. Who shows
Speaker 2: up in home videos false. Mary's forerunner was wiped clean.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: There wasn't a single fingerprint, hair, or fiber on or
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: Police found footprints leading from the suv to a case.
Speaker 1: False.
Speaker 2: Spelunkers searched the cave with robot cameras.
Speaker 1: False. I understand that I have the luxury of spending
Speaker 1: years on a single story. I find details others miss
Speaker 1: in this case, I don't blame Arizona reporters, the police,
Speaker 1: or the FBI for making mistakes. They worked hard in
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, and they're too busy wrangling today's chaos.
Speaker 1: To focus full time on the past. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: I have no problem calling out entertainers who can't even
Speaker 1: get basic facts correct but go on to fame and
Speaker 1: fortune by freeloading off actual journalists. They are toxic copy
Speaker 1: and pasters who perpetuate myths and pollute case canon. They
Speaker 1: do tangible harm, and they waste your time. You can't
Speaker 1: solve mysteries with fake clues. For example, the footprints allegedly
Speaker 1: found leading from Mary's suv to a cave fascinating if true,
Speaker 1: but it's not. Why should you care? Well? If I
Speaker 1: say police found footprints from the suv to a cave,
Speaker 1: but no return tracks, you might think understandably that Robert
Speaker 1: died by suicide in the cave. His body must be
Speaker 1: in there somewhere. But if I say no, that's false,
Speaker 1: your mind opens up. Maybe he's alive, and maybe you'll
Speaker 1: help us look for him. The small stuff matters. Details matter.
Speaker 1: From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three. I'm John Walzac and
Speaker 1: this is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man
Speaker 1: who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing
Speaker 1: up their suburban home and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty
Speaker 1: three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need
Speaker 1: your help. The early confused days of this case gave
Speaker 1: birth to myths that persist today, including the man in
Speaker 1: the woods and the footprints the man in the wood.
Speaker 3: We received information from a witness, as citizen who had
Speaker 3: observed what he thought to be the vehicle of mister
Speaker 3: Fisher and the dog of mister Fisher, and in fact
Speaker 3: saw a person that he thought was mister Fisher.
Speaker 1: This statement about a mystery man in the woods is incorrect.
Speaker 1: It's based on erroneous early reports. Right now, all indications
Speaker 1: are that he is alive.
Speaker 3: We know he was seen yesterday morning at eleven by
Speaker 3: the witness, the original witness, and that he's on the move.
Speaker 1: Notice how a vague sighting got more specific. We know
Speaker 1: the witness saw Fisher yesterday at eleven am. That's false, Greg,
Speaker 1: the camper who found the suv never saw anyone in
Speaker 1: the woods. Meanwhile, the Arizona Republic reported that pilots with
Speaker 1: the state Department of Public Safety or DPS, also saw
Speaker 1: the man in the woods near a cave. Quote a
Speaker 1: man was spotted on the ground between the truck and
Speaker 1: the cave. He appeared aware that the police helicopter was overhead.
Speaker 1: It was unclear whether the man was armed or how
Speaker 1: long he had been in the area. This is false.
Speaker 1: The pilots didn't see anyone. My goal here is not
Speaker 1: to humiliate law enforcement. In fact, debunking this myth makes
Speaker 1: them look better. Early on, they were heavily criticized for
Speaker 1: flying over the suv before reaching it on the ground,
Speaker 1: possibly alerting Fisher that they found him, giving him time
Speaker 1: to run. But since the man in the woods is
Speaker 1: myth not fact, this is moot. I'm also not trying
Speaker 1: to slam the Arizona Republic. Reporters covering breaking news do
Speaker 1: their best to determine which rumors are true. Sometimes they
Speaker 1: make mistakes. It's okay to admit that to fix it.
Speaker 1: The problem is that the original false version often lives
Speaker 1: on no matter what. This is also true of the footprints.
Speaker 4: The grid search covered approximately five hundred yards and a
Speaker 4: one mile square trying to locate any footprint.
Speaker 1: Everyone scans dirt and snow looking for tracks.
Speaker 5: In fact, a helicopter search of the area spotted footprints
Speaker 5: where Fisher's current dog were found on Friday.
Speaker 4: A track that has been found leaving the area where
Speaker 4: the truck was.
Speaker 1: Wait, they did find footprints, Yes, they.
Speaker 4: Did, a mile or so south of the truck.
Speaker 1: A mile from the suv, not leading from the suv
Speaker 1: to a cave.
Speaker 4: Going down into the reservation area. The tracks went down,
Speaker 4: but there was no tracks coming back out.
Speaker 1: The size of their boot trim size thirteen.
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's him.
Speaker 6: It's not something about his physical appearance that nobody ever mentions,
Speaker 6: as he had small feet.
Speaker 1: John Roden, a Fisher family friend, he had.
Speaker 6: Like size eight feet unusual. Really, Yeah, and you cannot
Speaker 6: change your feet size that much.
Speaker 1: Mary Beth Rodin, John's wife, how sure are you that
Speaker 1: it was size eight?
Speaker 7: Is that a guess?
Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure. If it wasn't size eight, it was
Speaker 6: size nine, which is still small.
Speaker 7: It was not size thirteen.
Speaker 6: No, it was not even size little bitty feet.
Speaker 7: When they found the forerunner, they found a set of
Speaker 7: size thirteen prints leading away from it.
Speaker 6: Those were not his feet.
Speaker 7: And let's say, I have a long list of questions,
Speaker 7: and this was one that I just didn't think anybody
Speaker 7: would remember his shoe size.
Speaker 6: Because it was weird. Yeah, we won hunting. We shared
Speaker 6: a tent with him as like, wow, you got small feet.
Speaker 1: So the Rodents say Robert wore an eight to nine shoe.
Speaker 1: In addition, the sneakers police found in his worklocker were
Speaker 1: a nine point five. Neither is even close to at thirteen.
Speaker 1: In the end, myth, police found Robert Fisher's footprints leading
Speaker 1: from Mary's fore runner to a cave. Verdict. Police did
Speaker 1: find prince size thirteen a mile away, likely left by
Speaker 1: someone scavenging for elk antlers. Myth. The Arizona DPS pilots
Speaker 1: and Greg the camper saw the man in the woods,
Speaker 1: probably Robert Fisher. Verdict false. A few weeks after the
Speaker 1: search ends, HeLa County Detective Brian Hay boards a helicopter
Speaker 1: in Payson.
Speaker 5: And then we flew at nighttime over the entire area
Speaker 5: looking for campfires.
Speaker 1: Eyes, you're in a helicopter flying under a blanket of stars,
Speaker 1: trying to spot flickering dots in a vast obsidian forest.
Speaker 5: Nights up there can be rather cool. Maybe he would
Speaker 5: have a campfire that we could pinpoint and with GPS
Speaker 5: located five to seven them. And then we followed up
Speaker 5: on foot and patrol vehicles. What area did you search
Speaker 5: virtually all the woods within three or four miles five miles.
Speaker 1: Of the fore runner, and none of those leads spand
Speaker 1: out no On May eleventh, two thousand and one, police
Speaker 1: finally track down Greg, the camper who located Mary's four
Speaker 1: runner twenty two days earlier. Greg left Arizona before they
Speaker 1: can meet him in person, so they interview him by
Speaker 1: phone at his brother's house in Oregon. They find him
Speaker 1: highly suspicious. Why did he flee so quickly? Why did
Speaker 1: he disappear for weeks? Did he help Robert escape? Four
Speaker 1: days later, they get copies of security tapes from cameras
Speaker 1: at the gas station where Greg used a payphone to
Speaker 1: call his friends, who in turn called the police. There's
Speaker 1: no sign of Greg or Robert on the tapes. May
Speaker 1: twenty eighth, Memorial Day, A Blazing Summer begins. June twenty third,
Speaker 1: twenty eight year old Honey Hanjor joins a flight simulator
Speaker 1: club in Phoenix. Soon he'll pilot a plane into the Pentagon.
Speaker 1: July tenth, a Phoenix FBI agent pens a memo warning
Speaker 1: of the possibility of a coordinated effort by Osama bin
Speaker 1: Laden to send students to the US to attend civil
Speaker 1: aviation schools. July nineteenth, the Maricopa County Attorney's Office releases
Speaker 1: an indictment charging Robert Fisher with murder and arson. The
Speaker 1: longer he evades authorities, the more he melts into state lore,
Speaker 1: a homicidal phantom wandering the wilderness alongside the likes of
Speaker 1: the Muggy On Monster, Arizona's Bigfoot.
Speaker 8: His suv may have been found, but triple murder suspect
Speaker 8: Robert Fisher has never been located. With that in mind,
Speaker 8: he County authorities are planning a second all out man
Speaker 8: hunt for Fisher in hopes of finding him dead or alive.
Speaker 8: Robert Fisher is the primary suspect and the murder of
Speaker 8: his wife and two children, whose bodies were found in
Speaker 8: their burning Scottsdale home last April. Scottsdale police say the
Speaker 8: home was rigged to explode in order to hide the homicides.
Speaker 8: Even though Fisher hasn't been seen since the incident, Scottsdale
Speaker 8: police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.
Speaker 9: You know, we have to base our investigations on fact,
Speaker 9: and we have no evidence to show that Rappert Fisher
Speaker 9: is dead.
Speaker 8: He may or may not be living somewhere in that area.
Speaker 5: Nothing would please us more than to find the body.
Speaker 8: The search is scheduled for August and is being billed
Speaker 8: as a quote training exercise, but it will, no doubt
Speaker 8: focus on the numerous caves found in the area where
Speaker 8: Fisher's SUV was discovered.
Speaker 1: But the thirch never takes place. The HeLa County Sheriff
Speaker 1: cancels it, saying, quote, we've turned up no new leads.
Speaker 1: We're satisfied that the chances he's up there are slim
Speaker 1: to none. August eleventh, nearly seven million people watch America's
Speaker 1: Most Wanted, which features a four minute segment on Fisher.
Speaker 1: It generates fifty two new leads. August eighteenth, five forty
Speaker 1: nine PM, a man calls the TV tip line from
Speaker 1: Pietro's Italian restaurant in Chester, Virginia, just south of Richmond.
Speaker 1: This is Robert Fisher. He says, you'll never catch me.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I killed the bitch. The call is brief,
Speaker 1: it isn't recorded. Scott Steel Detective John Kirkham tells the
Speaker 1: media quote, some things were said in the call that
Speaker 1: led us to believe it was Robert Fisher. Police in
Speaker 1: Virginia find no proof the caller was actually Fisher. For
Speaker 1: a time, they stake out the restaurant to no avail.
Speaker 1: September tenth, two thousand and one, the Arizona Republic runs
Speaker 1: a quick update quote officials now concede he meaning Fisher
Speaker 1: may be dead. Nine to eleven. We just had a.
Speaker 10: Plane crash and grew up before all the World.
Speaker 5: Trade sent to transmit a second alarm.
Speaker 10: And starving little katy companies into the area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi, hey, tho, she fell a baller from the
Speaker 1: two to one.
Speaker 10: Yeah, you guys should call them Anhattan dispatch and let
Speaker 10: him know. I had never seen so much smoke coming
Speaker 10: through a film as I speak in the World Trades
Speaker 10: and up by the water upon it. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: They have the art on the news.
Speaker 1: Stations, but they only gave a second larn there.
Speaker 10: It's like to set the long spee on it. They
Speaker 10: should go to a fifth instantly with the he goes
Speaker 10: to the side of the building. It looks like the
Speaker 10: numerous flaws exploded out. It's it's insane right now as
Speaker 10: somebody answer to every available ablist that they could possibly
Speaker 10: get over there, This is going to be the event
Speaker 10: of the century.
Speaker 1: Only a month after America's Most Wanted elevates Fisher to
Speaker 1: national prominence, nine to eleven wipes him away. He falls
Speaker 1: into a fugitive sweet spot. The post nine to eleven,
Speaker 1: pre social media, pre smartphone, don'nut whole, federal resources and
Speaker 1: public attention turned to terrorism. On October twenty fifth, as
Speaker 1: the US bombs the Taliban in Afghanistan, Detective Kirkham tells
Speaker 1: the Arizona Republic that Fisher is likely alive. Quote. I
Speaker 1: don't believe that he's up in the woods. I don't
Speaker 1: believe that he committed suicide. He was not intent on
Speaker 1: taking his own life. His intent was to take care
Speaker 1: of his problem and move on with his life. No remorse,
Speaker 1: no regret. He's probably living in another state and working
Speaker 1: at some menial job. I think that we'll probably find him.
Speaker 1: It may be tomorrow, it may be years down the road.
Speaker 1: It depends on us finding the mistake he made that
Speaker 1: we haven't picked up on yet, or on him making
Speaker 1: a mistake. In February two thousand and two, the FBI
Speaker 1: joins the case.
Speaker 9: I was the first agent assigned.
Speaker 1: Robert Caldwell Scott Sell came to.
Speaker 9: The FBI to help find Inzana Probo cause to believe
Speaker 9: he fled the state. So therefore the FBI now has
Speaker 9: jurisdiction to assist them. If a fugitive fled the state,
Speaker 9: it's called unwulf of flight to void prosecution. So they
Speaker 9: came to us, sat down with their detectives. We went
Speaker 9: through everything, developed a ton of leads, came up with
Speaker 9: some investigative strategies, and went to work.
Speaker 1: Caldwell starts digging into Fisher's past, including his childhood.
Speaker 9: Nothing came up that was ever like he was a
Speaker 9: trouble kid, or did drugs.
Speaker 7: Or killed animals.
Speaker 6: No, nothing at all.
Speaker 1: Caldwell immediately knows that the case is cooler than cool.
Speaker 1: It's ice cold. Publicity is key. On April fourth, two
Speaker 1: thousand and two days before the first anniversary of the murders,
Speaker 1: he and Detective Kirkham hosts the one hour public chat
Speaker 1: on FBI dot gov. Two months later, the bureau deploys
Speaker 1: its most valuable pr weapon.
Speaker 11: Fisher is still very much a priority with the FBI.
Speaker 9: He's on the ten most wanted list, right along with
Speaker 9: the likes of Osama bin Laden, Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 4: There is Robert William Fisher.
Speaker 1: At the time, Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber, is
Speaker 1: hiding in the forested mountains of North Carolina. Bin Laden
Speaker 1: is on the run in Afghanistan or Pakistan. His last
Speaker 1: known location was the Tora Bora Cave complex. Rudolph is
Speaker 1: arrested in two thousand and three. Bin Laden dies in
Speaker 1: twenty eleven. Only Fisher remains free.
Speaker 8: Forty two year old Robert Fisher is a fugitive. He
Speaker 8: is a phantom. He is a hunting figure in the
Speaker 8: history of Arizona.
Speaker 1: On August seventh, two thousand and two, the Arizona Republic
Speaker 1: runs a poll on its website, what do you think
Speaker 1: happened to Robert Fisher escaped and is living in the US?
Speaker 1: Eighty percent himself after the murders, nine percent still in Arizona,
Speaker 1: seven percent died of exposure while on the run shortly
Speaker 1: after the murders four percent. The next few years, Speed
Speaker 1: by the US invades Iraq, Facebook launches, Hurricane Katrina hits
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Kanye the Killers, and Taylor Swift break into
Speaker 1: pop culture. Nothing much happens with the Fisher case. In
Speaker 1: April two thousand and six. At the five year mark,
Speaker 1: Detective Kirkham tells the Republic quote, no one believes he's
Speaker 1: dead in a cave. We would have found some trace
Speaker 1: of his body by now. Three months later, Kirkham, only
Speaker 1: forty seven, dies of a stroke. Summer two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: multiple serial killers stalk the Phoenix Metro, including the Baseline
Speaker 1: Killer and the serial shooter.
Speaker 9: I was heavily involved in that investigation.
Speaker 1: Scottsdale Lieutenant Hugh Lockerbye.
Speaker 12: These guys running around Phoenix to shooting at people and
Speaker 12: killing them.
Speaker 1: The serial shooter, not to be confused with the Phoenix
Speaker 1: Ceial Street shooter, the Phoenix Freeway shooter, or the Scottsdale
Speaker 1: spree shooter different cases. Ends up being two men meth
Speaker 1: fueld roommates who kill eight people, including one in Scottsdale.
Speaker 1: Police arrest them on August third, two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: A month later, they identify and arrest the Baseline killer
Speaker 1: with the help of Stephen Pitt, a forensic psychiatrist, who
Speaker 1: himself is murdered in twenty eighteen by the Scottsdale spree shooter.
Speaker 1: I don't want to give you the wrong idea Despite
Speaker 1: a few high profile crimes, Scottsdale is for the most part,
Speaker 1: incredibly safe. In twenty twenty three, with a population of
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty five thousand, it had one homicide.
Speaker 12: It's very much a metropolitan area, just a suburb of Phoenix.
Speaker 4: Here we are in Phoenix, Arizona.
Speaker 3: Yeah, excuse me, Scott Steel, Arizona.
Speaker 5: Pardon me.
Speaker 1: For a while, the Fisher case is in limbo. Police
Speaker 1: are busy chasing serial killers.
Speaker 12: But by two thousand and seven, I take it over
Speaker 12: and I'd meet Bob call Immerse myself talking to the family.
Speaker 1: Members, including Mary's dad, Bill Cooper. Two years later, in
Speaker 1: December two thousand and nine, Bill dies. April twenty third,
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, the Arizona Republic headline FBI manhans still on
Speaker 1: for Robert Fisher, suspect and murders in one likely is alive.
Speaker 1: Agent Caldwell says, quote, all our evidence has been that
Speaker 1: he's the kind of guy who wouldn't go kill himself.
Speaker 1: He took a lot of belongings from the home, clothing, guns,
Speaker 1: like he was moving himself out. None of that stuff
Speaker 1: was found in the vehicle. He's out there hunting fishing,
Speaker 1: chewing tobacco with a sore back. In the lobby of
Speaker 1: the FBI's Phoenix office, a wanted poster of Fisher hangs
Speaker 1: directly above Osama bin Laden. Nine days later, Navy seals
Speaker 1: kill bin Laden in Pakistan. In April twenty twelve, the
Speaker 1: Pacin Roundup reports that the FBI quote believes Fisher may
Speaker 1: be living in the Blue Ridge Reservoir area as a hermit,
Speaker 1: or squatting in a trailer cabin or an old home
Speaker 1: in the woods. Fisher walks with an exaggerated upright walk,
Speaker 1: has a bad back, probably has long hair, and is
Speaker 1: homeless looking. In twenty fourteen, Hugh Lockerbie, then a detective,
Speaker 1: tells the Arizona Republic Fisher is likely living somewhere out
Speaker 1: west New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, Arizona, even Canada, quote anywhere
Speaker 1: where he can hunt fish keep a low profile. In
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, at the fifteen year mark, the FBI releases
Speaker 1: ads progressed images of Fisher. There's no reason to believe
Speaker 1: he's dead, they say. Bob Caldwell later retires, but he
Speaker 1: remains deeply invested in this case and retains a strong
Speaker 1: personal animosity towards Fisher.
Speaker 9: He thinks he's a real man's man when he's not.
Speaker 9: He's not a ladies man. He's kind of a failure
Speaker 9: of life. He's a bully to women. I don't think
Speaker 9: he's got the guts to come forward. He's a piece
Speaker 9: of shit. If he is alive, he needs to be
Speaker 9: brought to justice. And I don't care if there's somebody
Speaker 9: else out there that's like, well, he's good to me.
Speaker 12: Whatever.
Speaker 9: No, there's a bigger picture here now. He's going to
Speaker 9: get his justice one day. It's going to be up
Speaker 9: there or down there, whichever, but it's going to.
Speaker 6: Happen one day.
Speaker 9: But he needs to get his justice here first.
Speaker 1: In Scottsdale, Hugh Lockerby is promoted from detective to lieutenant.
Speaker 1: He began his career as a patrol officer whose beat
Speaker 1: included the Fisher House. In fact, he was working the
Speaker 1: night of the murders.
Speaker 12: I wonder how close I was to Fisher, Like I
Speaker 12: wish I could retrace my steps. How close did I
Speaker 12: drive by his house? How close did I drive by
Speaker 12: the bank?
Speaker 6: Did I pass him?
Speaker 12: When he was leaving town?
Speaker 1: On November third, twenty twenty one, the FBI removes Fisher
Speaker 1: from its ten most Wanted list. According to the Associated Press,
Speaker 1: he's only the eleventh person since nineteen fifty removed before apprehension, death,
Speaker 1: or dismissal of charges, and that more or less brings
Speaker 1: us to today. The current investigators are Scott Steel, Detective
Speaker 1: John Heinzelman, an FBI special agent. Taylor Hannah tell me
Speaker 1: the FBI's official position on whether or not Robert Fisher
Speaker 1: is a lot or dead.
Speaker 13: There is no official position. My background is in science.
Speaker 13: Previous to this, I was working on my PhD in biology,
Speaker 13: so I approach this case very scientifically. There are one
Speaker 13: hundred thousand pet theories hypotheses out there of what happened
Speaker 13: to Fisher, and so I really wanted to approach this
Speaker 13: case with none of those right. I wanted to re
Speaker 13: examine all the facts and the actual evidence and see
Speaker 13: what we could do with that. What I did not
Speaker 13: want to do is come on and create any theories
Speaker 13: or hypotheses based on just my assumptions. So I would
Speaker 13: say the Bureau has no stance. I think we are
Speaker 13: open to the fact that he could be dead or alive,
Speaker 13: and that obviously we are going to try to find
Speaker 13: him either way.
Speaker 14: So Fisher was on the ten most Wanted list from
Speaker 14: twenty two to twenty twenty one. Can you talk about
Speaker 14: the criteria for how somebody gets included on the list
Speaker 14: and why he was removed?
Speaker 6: Sure?
Speaker 13: So the criteria typically is just how beneficial is it
Speaker 13: going to be to that case. There are a lot
Speaker 13: of really bad people out there. There are a lot
Speaker 13: of people that have done crime is very similar to
Speaker 13: Robert Fisher, right it in America, sadly, and not all
Speaker 13: of them were on the Top ten list. He was
Speaker 13: initially added to get his picture out there, to get
Speaker 13: the story out there and hope someone would see him.
Speaker 13: After twenty years, all those tips didn't lead to the
Speaker 13: resolution of his case yet or to finding him. So
Speaker 13: opposed to taking up one of those spots that could
Speaker 13: be used for another case, That's why we decided to
Speaker 13: take him off the Top ten.
Speaker 1: Agent Hannah and Detective Heinzelmann still get leads almost every week.
Speaker 12: Maybe there's somebody out there that knows him or helped
Speaker 12: him along the way. Even twenty years ago. This says, well,
Speaker 12: he called me and I gave him a ride or
Speaker 12: I picked him up where the forerunner was, and I
Speaker 12: drove him to flag Staff or whatever it is. But
Speaker 12: I always thought that law enforcement was going to figure
Speaker 12: that out, they were going to catch him, so I
Speaker 12: didn't want to come forward. And now I'm finally saying, Okay,
Speaker 12: I'm older, I'm going to come forward.
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk investigators. Ask me to emphasize this point.
Speaker 1: If you know something, please speak up. If you had
Speaker 1: an affair with Robert Fisher, if you helped him escape,
Speaker 1: if you know him today and you're worried about legal culpability,
Speaker 1: you're not the target Fisher is. Please come forward to
Speaker 1: law enforcement or to me. In the meantime, Scottsdale and
Speaker 1: the FBI are always looking for ways to develop new leads.
Speaker 13: For example, we geographically cluster relatives at one point to
Speaker 13: see if there were any hot spots, and there was
Speaker 13: one identified. There was a timeframe where people unrelated reporting
Speaker 13: someone that matched his description in a certain area, and
Speaker 13: that was one that really got our attention. We sent
Speaker 13: agents is prior to me coming to the case to
Speaker 13: interview all those people and obviously to search. This was
Speaker 13: a fisherman that was transient through that area. So it's
Speaker 13: still hard. But again you find Fisher.
Speaker 6: You just call that number right there. I will make
Speaker 6: sure that.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 13: I actually do not remember, just because I've gone through
Speaker 13: so many I just remember it's town or all fishermen,
Speaker 13: So they knew all the people coming and going, and
Speaker 13: this was a new individual that came through town that
Speaker 13: resembled Robert Fisher, and there were multiple reports seemingly unrelated.
Speaker 13: It was in the US.
Speaker 1: As far as physical evidence, what might exist today and
Speaker 1: what could it tell us, investigators don't know for sure
Speaker 1: what Fisher took with him and what burned in the fire.
Speaker 1: None of his belongings were ever located. They think he
Speaker 1: took a thirty eight Revolver, camping supplies, clothing.
Speaker 13: And a bike that he did use pretty frequently was missing,
Speaker 13: and we would have found remants.
Speaker 5: Of the bike.
Speaker 1: Up next, that.
Speaker 11: Is Robert Fisher's mountain bike that he gave me.
Speaker 1: If you like this show, please download our first two seasons,
Speaker 1: Missing in Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates,
Speaker 1: visit meon thirty three dot com or follow me on
Speaker 1: Twitter at John waalzac j O n Wa l Czak.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Jim roden knew the entire Fisher family.
Speaker 1: He was Robert's friend and Britney's youth pastor. His brother
Speaker 1: John and sister in law Mary Beth are the couple
Speaker 1: you heard earlier who remembered Robert's two size Jim, John
Speaker 1: and Robert went hunting together. They also went camping with
Speaker 1: their wives and kids. Brittany was even at Jim's house
Speaker 1: two days before the murders for a sleepover with friends,
Speaker 1: supervised by Jim's wife. So I was surprised to hear
Speaker 1: that Scott.
Speaker 11: Steel Peede never interviewed me, real never interviewed me, And
Speaker 11: that was the weirdest thing. It's like I knew his
Speaker 11: daughter I spoke at the memorial. Did no never interviewed me,
Speaker 11: never been interviewed.
Speaker 1: Jim met Robert in the nineties. At the time, many
Speaker 1: people called him Bob. What did Jim call him?
Speaker 11: Not Bob, It's Robert. I toy with people's names just
Speaker 11: to poke m around. So I'm Pastor Cupcake, and my
Speaker 11: wife after this whole thing went down, she was half
Speaker 11: convinced that we were going to hear him outside our
Speaker 11: window whispering a pastor Cupcake, like he'd be on the
Speaker 11: lamb and maybe come to our house. And say pastor cupcake.
Speaker 11: So there was that kind of silly relationship.
Speaker 6: Eating all the.
Speaker 11: Cupcakes that Mary made and him calling me pastor cupcake.
Speaker 11: He got a kick out of that. Lying in a
Speaker 11: tent and I'm a little bit of a youngest child
Speaker 11: shock jockey, and I think I was mimicking a gang
Speaker 11: banger hunting. We're going to sleep and I'm just talking
Speaker 11: inner city talk without the F bomb word.
Speaker 12: But he was rolling.
Speaker 11: He just thought gangstas going hunting, and I had him
Speaker 11: rolling it because he loved that good old boy Americana military,
Speaker 11: redneck outdoorsman Copenhagen, tobacco, fishing, cabellas you got it pass
Speaker 11: pro shop though it wasn't there at the time. You know,
Speaker 11: had his own little fishing boat and pickup truck, and
Speaker 11: he was a jim rat and he would ride that
Speaker 11: mountain bike.
Speaker 1: The missing bike, every day.
Speaker 11: He was putting miles on that mountain bike. I happened
Speaker 11: to own that mountain bike about a year before this
Speaker 11: whole thing went down. He gave me that mountain bike
Speaker 11: as a gift, which was I was stunned. But I
Speaker 11: had a mountain bike stolen my first year marriage. It
Speaker 11: was a brand new Specialized stump jumper calm left it
Speaker 11: behind at my parents' house. They were broken into, got
Speaker 11: a phone call, bike's gone. I used the insurance money
Speaker 11: to pay my seminary bill. Robert knew that story, and
Speaker 11: this is probably five years later. He invited me over
Speaker 11: to the house one night and he said, hey, I.
Speaker 6: Want to give you something.
Speaker 11: I want to give you this, and I'm like, whoa.
Speaker 11: I remember when he bought that bike and just going, oh,
Speaker 11: that is a nice mountain bike. Never said anything to him,
Speaker 11: but he knew the story me losing my mountain bike,
Speaker 11: and so he gave me that bike. And that was
Speaker 11: probably a year or a year and.
Speaker 1: A half before the murders, somewhere.
Speaker 11: Around nineteen ninety nine. At the time, it was just like,
Speaker 11: no way, I feel really loved by this guy. I've
Speaker 11: invested in his life spiritually and is encouraging him in
Speaker 11: the ways of the Lord in his marriage. And this
Speaker 11: seemed to be him just saying, hey, thanks, peace, I.
Speaker 1: Do we go to his garage.
Speaker 11: That is that is Robert Fisher's mountain bike that he
Speaker 11: gave me some pretty good shape, yeah, aluminum. That was
Speaker 11: the top of the line Specialized mountain bike, and that
Speaker 11: was probably a twenty eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: Bike, about fifty four hundred dollars today. So this is
Speaker 1: the bike that the FBI thinks is missing.
Speaker 11: Probably, but he gave it to me a year before
Speaker 11: he did this thing.
Speaker 14: You still write it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we head back inside and speak of salvation. Can
Speaker 1: Robert Fisher be redeemed in the eyes of his God?
Speaker 11: Absolutely, eternally forgiven and redeemed absolutely? That is the scriptures,
Speaker 11: and that is the Jesus that we proclaim. As far
Speaker 11: as the debt to society, that's a different set of ethics.
Speaker 11: It's the Ted Bundy story. Ted Bundy claims to have
Speaker 11: fully confessed, repented with remorse, and received Jesus as personal
Speaker 11: Lord and savior. But the next day he's going to
Speaker 11: the electric chair. And I'm fine with that set of ethics.
Speaker 11: Isaiah fifty three. Surely he has borne our griefs and
Speaker 11: the pain that we've taken on from other people sinning
Speaker 11: against us, but also our personal expressions of sin and sinfulness.
Speaker 11: He carried that to the cross as God incarnate. And
Speaker 11: so if there's not hope for a murderer, there's not
Speaker 11: hope for anyone. You can be forgiven eternally, but there
Speaker 11: will be consequences. In the best story is that you go,
Speaker 11: man up, turn yourself in, let the judges sort that out.
Speaker 11: Cast your soul upon the grace of God. Let him
Speaker 11: sort out your soul and your crimes. And the Lord
Speaker 11: is merciful and forgiving for the repentant soul.
Speaker 14: Do you feel like it's possible for him to be
Speaker 14: redeemed if he lives an alternative life and never comes
Speaker 14: forth and.
Speaker 11: Pay no, no, Because that's a secret. Nothing ever gets better.
Speaker 11: Festering in the darkness. That's evidence of an unrepentant heart.
Speaker 11: A repentant heart pulls it out into the light. They
Speaker 11: want to live before God and man like, even if
Speaker 11: they've got to pay the price. I did this, I'll repay.
Speaker 11: What does restitution look like? I can't make restitution, but
Speaker 11: I'm going to have to be taken out, so capital
Speaker 11: punishment is You.
Speaker 14: Know, if he surface today, would you be willing to
Speaker 14: meet with and council?
Speaker 11: One hundred percent?
Speaker 12: I've known that, and I go.
Speaker 11: I'd visit him. I'd visit pretty much anyone in prison. Absolutely.
Speaker 14: If he's out there, will you speak to him spiritually
Speaker 14: about where he stands now and what he has to
Speaker 14: do to find reduction.
Speaker 11: The simple path forward is First John one nine. If
Speaker 11: we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
Speaker 11: forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Speaker 11: When we bring ourselves out into the light and we confess,
Speaker 11: and which means say the same thing about it that
Speaker 11: God says about it. Almost leg at oh is the Greek.
Speaker 11: Just say, admit it. It's sin, it's wrong, it's detestable.
Speaker 11: It's an infinite, eternal violation of God's goodness and holiness.
Speaker 11: And I stand condemned. No matter what the law the
Speaker 11: courts do to you. To find forgiveness before a righteous
Speaker 11: and loving judge running in this lifetime, that gets you nothing,
Speaker 11: just slight delay in judgment day which relative to each
Speaker 11: it's like that's a spit in the ocean. So come
Speaker 11: clean before it's too late. Confess your sin, Come out
Speaker 11: into the light, face up to what you did. Find
Speaker 11: redemption before the Lord. I would certainly visit him, say, man,
Speaker 11: tell me all about it. I don't hate you as
Speaker 11: an image bearer. We've all done terrible things. This is extreme,
Speaker 11: but in terms of needing a redeemer, a savior. We're
Speaker 11: on eagle ground before the foot of.
Speaker 1: The cross, Jim, and I know this message isn't for everyone.
Speaker 1: It's for an audience of one. Robert. If you're listening,
Speaker 1: if you believe in God, if you believe in Hell,
Speaker 1: if you don't want to go to Hell.
Speaker 11: Come forward, come into the light.
Speaker 1: Next time, I'm missing in Arizona.
Speaker 7: It's eleven fifty one am on a Tuesday, and we're
Speaker 7: looking for some mysterious shock in the woods in Arizona.
Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three
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Speaker 1: online at neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter
Speaker 1: at John Wallzac, j O, n W A. L. Czak.
Speaker 1: Paul Duckan is our executive producer. Chris Brown is our
Speaker 1: supervising producer. Hannah Rose Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemperlin
Speaker 1: is our researcher. Ben Bolan is a consulting producer. And
Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer, John Wallzac Crime Junkie
Speaker 1: statements voiced by Noel Brown. Cover art by Pam Peacock,
Speaker 1: Neon thirty three. Logo designed by Derek Rudy. Our intro
Speaker 1: song is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first
Speaker 1: two seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska and Missing
Speaker 1: on nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give
Speaker 1: us a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a
Speaker 1: co production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three.