Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren's Ema Coming to you from the
Speaker 1: friendly home office of Austin, Texas. We are back. We
Speaker 1: took a little break, not from the pod, but just
Speaker 1: we got out of Austin for a little bit, took
Speaker 1: a little trip.
Speaker 2: We've been everywhere. I mean, I was in Cabo to
Speaker 2: celebrate your birthday. I came home to help Taylor pack
Speaker 2: up for college and shop for college. Then I went
Speaker 2: back to Cabo for my girl's annual girls trip slash
Speaker 2: one night bachelorette party. Then we went to Idaho, which
Speaker 2: was lovely. Then we went to Colorado for one night
Speaker 2: to see a concert at Red Rocks because neither of
Speaker 2: us had been. It was on our bucket list. And
Speaker 2: now we're back here and I have to give Chris
Speaker 2: Harrison an absolute commendation right now, a gold star. We
Speaker 2: are sitting in our office. You may have seen in
Speaker 2: the news Austin has set a record. It's something like
Speaker 2: over forty straight days of for one hundred.
Speaker 1: Next Monday, it's breaking.
Speaker 2: Oh, we're gonna get a cold wave. What's it going
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 1: Down in the high eighties?
Speaker 2: Wow, and at the sweater winter front moving here.
Speaker 1: I'm getting all of our jackets out today.
Speaker 2: So it's been so hot and now listen. First, I
Speaker 2: was a little I don't know if perturbs the right word.
Speaker 2: But without consulting me, without even sending me a link
Speaker 2: of visual aid, getting my opinion at all, Chris Harrison
Speaker 2: purchased a fan for our office where we record the podcast.
Speaker 2: He said, it's so hot in there. We got to
Speaker 2: get the light fixture out. We're putting a fan in
Speaker 2: and I'm like, even check with me, okay, but he
Speaker 2: did an absolutely stellar job. Why did I even question
Speaker 2: your taste? This fan is perfect, It matches our desk,
Speaker 2: The esthetics are on point. I can't I want to
Speaker 2: kiss you. You did such a great job.
Speaker 1: It spins around and blows air, which is fantastic.
Speaker 2: Wait are you saying you didn't think about you lost and.
Speaker 1: The look are are weak? Rope quick and I want
Speaker 1: to go back our trip to Colorado. We both wanted
Speaker 1: to go to Red Rocks. If you have grown up
Speaker 1: in the seventies eighties around then, you obviously knew the
Speaker 1: hugely popular famous YouTube video The Sunday Bloody Sunday video
Speaker 1: and it was shot at Red Rocks and it was
Speaker 1: this iconic video and I've always wanted to go to
Speaker 1: Red Rocks. It turned out a good friend of ours,
Speaker 1: Parker McCollum, was playing at Red Rocks and he put
Speaker 1: on a show with Will Beckman and Randy Rogers. It
Speaker 1: was an epic night. But what I love most about
Speaker 1: that night is Lauren and I were sitting in the amphitheater.
Speaker 1: I don't know we met thirty people came by. I
Speaker 1: don't know, a bunch of people. We just met so
Speaker 1: many great people in Colorado. So much love to Denver,
Speaker 1: much love to the folks at Red Rocks. I loved
Speaker 1: everybody coming up and saying hello. And I do love
Speaker 1: that when people swung by and they said, hey, I
Speaker 1: listened to your podcast. You said you like it when
Speaker 1: people come say hello. I said, no, I do.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: It's great. And so everybody was in a good mood.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place and it was emotional walking in there.
Speaker 1: It really is a spectacular venue. I posted a picture
Speaker 1: from the venue and everybody says the same thing, most
Speaker 1: iconic venue ever. And I agree. A lot of stairs,
Speaker 1: a lot of stairs.
Speaker 2: I had several tequilas, and at the end I had
Speaker 2: to walk up those stairs. That was what Chris called
Speaker 2: a sobering moment.
Speaker 1: That was a sober up moment. But by the way,
Speaker 1: a huge shout out to Parker McCollum, who headlined for
Speaker 1: the first time at Red Rocks. Sold it out, dude,
Speaker 1: rushed it, killed it.
Speaker 2: A wonderful friend of ours. He's just so talented.
Speaker 1: And his beautiful wife, Hallie Ray. Yes. Oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: I have to get on the podcast because we were
Speaker 1: in backstage with Halle Ray and I learned something about
Speaker 1: her and the Bachelor I did not know. I won't
Speaker 1: spoil it here, but I said, you have to come
Speaker 1: on and tell the story. So she's going to come
Speaker 1: on soon and tell this crazy story. Now, another thing
Speaker 1: we glossed over, and I want to go back because
Speaker 1: it kind of leads to I need to.
Speaker 2: Pause for a second. You keep telling me I was
Speaker 2: gloss and things. I was trying to compliment you on
Speaker 2: the fan.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I love that you are a fan. Oh my god, dad.
Speaker 1: Joke number one being your girl's trip. You've been posting
Speaker 1: a lot on Instagram about your girls trip. Yes, and
Speaker 1: people have reached out and said, this is a remarkable
Speaker 1: group of women. I love your girls' trips, Like this
Speaker 1: is crazy that you fourteen fifteen, sixteen of you would
Speaker 1: ever get together every year without fail. Unless someone is
Speaker 1: dying or someone's giving birth. Those are the only reasons
Speaker 1: you're allowed to skip life and death. Yes, and even then,
Speaker 1: like you've had multiple show up pregnant, like ready to
Speaker 1: give birth.
Speaker 2: But they still say, say, give me a mocktail.
Speaker 1: I'm here for the vibe, and I love the fact
Speaker 1: that because you're going to lead us into today's topic
Speaker 1: of the most dramatic podcast ever, but it kind of
Speaker 1: goes back to this strong group of girls who look
Speaker 1: after each other no matter what.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I actually wanted to ask you about
Speaker 2: it because I have found myself making these sort of
Speaker 2: big statements because this trip we just had. We've been
Speaker 2: friends for about fifteen years. In the beginning, when everybody
Speaker 2: was kind of you know, a lot of us are
Speaker 2: Midwesterners and we're getting married in our mid twenties, and
Speaker 2: so we had bachelorette parties and we had weddings to
Speaker 2: see each other at. And then when more and more
Speaker 2: of us were getting locked down. We said, hey, we
Speaker 2: might not have all these weddings, so let's do one
Speaker 2: trip a year guaranteed to see each other. And it
Speaker 2: has been so good for maintaining our friendship. We look
Speaker 2: forward to it every year. It feeds our souls. And
Speaker 2: this trip was I think maybe our best trip ever.
Speaker 2: We didn't have any air travel issues, nobody was pregnant,
Speaker 2: so everybody was having real tequila and we just had
Speaker 2: a perfect time. And then I find myself making these
Speaker 2: big statements like nothing makes me happier. I never laugh harder.
Speaker 2: These are my soul sisters. Serious question, as my partner,
Speaker 2: is it annoying when I say things like that?
Speaker 1: Is it at all hurtful or funny? I never thought
Speaker 1: about it till you were saying it. Okay, great send it.
Speaker 1: It is beyond not offensive. It is wonderful, And I
Speaker 1: get it. I have wonderful friends, like good friends. We're out,
Speaker 1: you know, doing our golf thing or on the trips
Speaker 1: to Pebble Beach or whatever. You laugh and you relax
Speaker 1: and you let your guard down unlike any other. And
Speaker 1: it's just those are the people that know you the best.
Speaker 1: These girls have known you before during and after all
Speaker 1: of your work success, babies, whatever it is, divorces, they
Speaker 1: just know, they know all your bugaboos, they know where
Speaker 1: all the skeletons are. So you can just relax and
Speaker 1: be you.
Speaker 2: And there's also no matter what, as much as I
Speaker 2: laugh with you and love you so deeply, it's a
Speaker 2: different relationship. You're my partner versus your friends. You're just
Speaker 2: gonna you know, there's the female connection and bond and
Speaker 2: looking at photos of us and we're all kind of
Speaker 2: laying all over each other, sort of resorting or reverting
Speaker 2: back to when we lived in a sorority house together
Speaker 2: and there was a therapist I think who said on
Speaker 2: Instagram or something. But we're in this era now where
Speaker 2: we kind of demand that our partner be all things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that that really isn't healthy. Like you say, oh,
Speaker 2: my partner's my best friend, and and sure that's great,
Speaker 2: but you know, years ago, people sort of relied on
Speaker 2: other relationships, friends, mentors, family to get different.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people went into work at offices, right, and your work.
Speaker 2: Friends might fulfill a different need than your neighborhood friends.
Speaker 2: And so it's okay for people to be different things
Speaker 2: in your life and to meet and want all these
Speaker 2: different things in your life.
Speaker 1: It's really hard for one person to be all things
Speaker 1: in your life.
Speaker 2: But I have to say, you are the guy that
Speaker 2: bought the right fan.
Speaker 1: I bought the right fan. I know my place and
Speaker 1: I know, but you bring up a really good point.
Speaker 1: It's it's I love you, I love hanging out with you.
Speaker 1: You are a wonderful lover friend, all these things. But
Speaker 1: I also get things from my buddies that you're just
Speaker 1: not going to give me. And that's and that's fine, babe.
Speaker 2: Are you saying I can't.
Speaker 1: You can't be all They golf with you and talks.
Speaker 1: As many personalities as you bring out in a day,
Speaker 1: you still can't be all of them. That brings us
Speaker 1: into today's topic that you wanted to talk about. What
Speaker 1: are we talking about today?
Speaker 2: Well, part of the reason this came up was from
Speaker 2: our wonderful producer Kendall, who I think we might bring
Speaker 2: on because I have a couple questions for her. Actually,
Speaker 2: so we've been kind of talking about a lot of
Speaker 2: people I know watch the show and just like that,
Speaker 2: now I will admit. This is The Sex and the City,
Speaker 2: a spinoff series featuring the women later in life, in
Speaker 2: a different phase of life, decades later after the original show,
Speaker 2: and it's now on season two and I watched. I
Speaker 2: tried to watch the first season and I did not
Speaker 2: like it. I thought the characters were off, the writing
Speaker 2: wasn't as good, the acting wasn't as good. And now
Speaker 2: it's in season two and a lot of people are
Speaker 2: saying it's gotten a bit better. They found their way
Speaker 2: a little bit. And then this moment on a recent episode,
Speaker 2: on episode eight, I was seeing all over Instagram people
Speaker 2: who I follow who watched the show were commenting on
Speaker 2: how powerful it was. And it is a moment where Carrie,
Speaker 2: our main girl, has a conversation with this character, Seema,
Speaker 2: about how Carrie a spoiler alert, Carrie's gotten back to
Speaker 2: dating Aiden from the original series, and they are moving
Speaker 2: fast and furious. A month in, she's saying, we and
Speaker 2: they're so in love again, and they're making plans to
Speaker 2: you know, for her to meet as kids and for
Speaker 2: them to spend time together. But she had plans with
Speaker 2: Seema to do a summerhouse in the Hamptons, and Sema
Speaker 2: tells her, I don't want to do the house anymore.
Speaker 2: I've gotten our deposit back. I can't handle the idea
Speaker 2: of spending all this money to be in a house
Speaker 2: with you and for Aiden to be there all the time,
Speaker 2: right to feel like.
Speaker 1: This is going to be a special girls trip and
Speaker 1: we own this and we're going to have a great
Speaker 1: girl summer, and now you're just going to be hooking
Speaker 1: up with your boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Well, now the dynamic has changed, she's basically saying, and
Speaker 2: she's not mad at Carrie, but Carrie's very hurt by this.
Speaker 2: She says, no, please, I want to do the house together.
Speaker 2: Aiden won't be there all the time. But Sema says,
Speaker 2: for me, I don't want to have that feeling of
Speaker 2: being there with you two as a couple. I don't
Speaker 2: want to do this. So this conversation kind of goes
Speaker 2: viral and everybody's pointing out, what a great conversation for
Speaker 2: the single friend to speak up and say, I'm drawing
Speaker 2: a boundary here, I don't want to do this. And
Speaker 2: it's bringing up these questions of, you know, is it
Speaker 2: okay to be the third wheel? Is it okay to
Speaker 2: invite your friend out on couples things with you? When
Speaker 2: is it not okay? When is it annoying and when
Speaker 2: can the single friend speak up and not sound like
Speaker 2: a jerk by doing it well?
Speaker 1: And as far as the person who just started dating,
Speaker 1: I found it interesting too. And Carrie, I'm not a
Speaker 1: huge sex in the city watcher. I watched the original
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not going to get into these new shows,
Speaker 1: but I watched enough, and I've watched some with you.
Speaker 1: Carrie is very flawed. Like she doesn't really she spoke.
Speaker 1: I got the feeling she was like this really good
Speaker 1: friend or whatever. But she likes she makes a lot
Speaker 1: of mistakes. She leaves her friends in a lurch a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, Carrie's kind of a it's when you watch
Speaker 2: When I watched the show the first time when it
Speaker 2: was on, to then do I did a full rewatch
Speaker 2: of the original series a few months ago, and to
Speaker 2: watch it through the lens of now being in my thirties,
Speaker 2: I'm watching it thinking, speaking of good friends.
Speaker 1: Carrie is she's not a great friend.
Speaker 2: She's in the first couple of seasons, she's a very
Speaker 2: toxic girlfriend. Actually, so, no, Carrie is very flawed. And
Speaker 2: then you look back and think, oh crap, I grew
Speaker 2: up idolizing her when I was in my twenties.
Speaker 1: What did that do to me? And that brings up
Speaker 1: the topic I was thinking too, is from the flip
Speaker 1: side of even though you're in a relationship, it's being
Speaker 1: a good friend. It's not absolutely just bailing on everybody
Speaker 1: because you happen to be in love and having good
Speaker 1: sex these days.
Speaker 2: So there's lots of articles about this moment. HuffPost says
Speaker 2: what and just like that gets right about being the
Speaker 2: only single friend and again dives into this. Now, Kendall,
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you because you had texted us
Speaker 2: producer Kendall.
Speaker 1: And if it's okay, I'm just going to say it.
Speaker 1: Kendall's twenty five years old. Yes, so this helps. So
Speaker 1: she is much younger than us, but she is in
Speaker 1: a committed relationship and has been for five years.
Speaker 2: And Kendall, you texted us as we were talking about
Speaker 2: discussing this topic today and you said we need to
Speaker 2: change the stigma of being the third wheel. So I
Speaker 2: wanted to ask you, what is this? What do you
Speaker 2: think the stigma of being the third wheel is what
Speaker 2: needs to change.
Speaker 3: So I've obviously been in a relationship for five and
Speaker 3: a half years and my best friend is constantly going
Speaker 3: on dates with us, and we always are with her
Speaker 3: just because I live with her too, So it sometimes
Speaker 3: gets tough, like whenever or we want to do things
Speaker 3: on a date night but she asked me to hang out.
Speaker 3: But for her, there's also a lot of positives out
Speaker 3: of it, and I try to tell her that even
Speaker 3: though she feels lonely when she's with us, Like, for example,
Speaker 3: my boyfriend will pay for her dinner because why not,
Speaker 3: and he will set her up on a date, and
Speaker 3: he will give her advice on her dating problems. I
Speaker 3: just feel like there's a lot of positives out of
Speaker 3: it that you can think about and it shouldn't be
Speaker 3: as negative as you think.
Speaker 1: But are there boundaries that you need to set? Are
Speaker 1: there sometimes when you just want to be alone with
Speaker 1: your boyfriend? Or conversely, are there times where hey, I
Speaker 1: just need a girl's night with my roommate. I'm going
Speaker 1: to go out alone without you, without your boyfriend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, kind of the second one. There are more
Speaker 3: times where I want to kind of just be with
Speaker 3: her and I have to tell my boyfriend, like, hey,
Speaker 3: I want to go out with her and have a
Speaker 3: girl's night.
Speaker 1: Lauren does that to me too?
Speaker 2: Well, I actually was going to say, I am so
Speaker 2: part of the reason I wanted to ask you, Kendall,
Speaker 2: I am so sort of unfamiliar with this because I've
Speaker 2: never done this. I have never really said, hey, do
Speaker 2: you friend hang out with me and my boyfriend. I've
Speaker 2: never done what Carrie did of expecting a friend to
Speaker 2: kind of come in and vibe with like my boyfriend
Speaker 2: being a part of Honestly, you know, what you have
Speaker 2: to think is who's the third wheel here in the
Speaker 2: situation with Carrie and Sema and the Hampton's house really
Speaker 2: aid in the boyfriend is the third wheel they were
Speaker 2: bringing in?
Speaker 1: Well, she should be. If Carrie wasn't a crappy friend,
Speaker 1: which she is, that would be the case. But I
Speaker 1: think the way she probably is, And I think this
Speaker 1: tells two different types of people. A selfish person who's
Speaker 1: just all about their new relationship and they're you know
Speaker 1: that glow and the endorphins are firing, and you just
Speaker 1: you leave Seema, you leave your friend in a lurch.
Speaker 1: Or there are those who would make the guy the
Speaker 1: third wheel and I'm all about my girlfriend. I'm all
Speaker 1: about getting up and I'm chatting with her late at night,
Speaker 1: we're watching Bravo, We're having coffee in the morning, and
Speaker 1: so there's I think there's two different types of friends here.
Speaker 2: I think Sema knew which type of friend Carrie was,
Speaker 2: and that's why she's smartly set a boundary, said I
Speaker 2: don't want to do this, because she knew what it
Speaker 2: would turn into. Carrie's saying he won't be there all
Speaker 2: the time, But Seeman knew what would happen if you
Speaker 2: had a friend where you believed you're like, no, I
Speaker 2: know how she is hill pop in and out, will
Speaker 2: see him sometimes. I just have always prioritized my friends.
Speaker 1: But that's not crazy. That's not a thing to laugh
Speaker 1: at or make fun like. That's a good thing. That's
Speaker 1: a very healthy thing to do. And I think for
Speaker 1: some reason, if you go back to the question you
Speaker 1: ask Kendall about the stigma that that is one of
Speaker 1: those things of once I get married, once I have children,
Speaker 1: even this is my new life and I have to
Speaker 1: forsake all of what I had before, And that's not
Speaker 1: the case. In fact, you need to work harder and
Speaker 1: foster the relationships that you had, keep those girlfriends, keep
Speaker 1: those guy friends, and look there are boundaries. I'm painting
Speaker 1: with a broadbrush, disappearing every weekend all weekend to go
Speaker 1: get hammered and play golf. No, it's not what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. I'm just saying, foster those relationships because it's healthy.
Speaker 2: Now. I do think there's an age thing here. I
Speaker 2: do think when you're younger, you can really get swept
Speaker 2: up in a relationship and you know you're so in
Speaker 2: love and suddenly your borderline living together. And I probably
Speaker 2: did that in my very early twenties. I'm talking maybe,
Speaker 2: and I'm nineteen twenty twenty one, still in college. But
Speaker 2: then I learned the lesson of prioritizing my friends and
Speaker 2: learned that my friends were going to be the ones
Speaker 2: there with me through everything. Carrie in her early fifties.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if this character has
Speaker 2: fully learned that lesson.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I was basically a professional third wheel for almost
Speaker 1: a decade.
Speaker 2: You know what, I wanted to ask you about this
Speaker 2: because the truth is, and I almost feel weird admitting
Speaker 2: this out loud, I have not had very long spans
Speaker 2: in my life where I've been single, and I looking back,
Speaker 2: I mean almost every time I got into a relationship.
Speaker 2: I remember thinking to myself, I wish I could be
Speaker 2: single longer. I actually want to be single longer, but
Speaker 2: I don't know just the way the timing has worked out.
Speaker 2: I've sort of met somebody, and that's also a beautiful
Speaker 2: thing I'm very grateful for, but I don't really know
Speaker 2: what it's like to long term third wheel it.
Speaker 1: How long were you?
Speaker 2: I mean you were single for almost a decade.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look for first of all, I get what
Speaker 1: you're saying, and we're not getting married for another few months.
Speaker 1: If you want to date, just date around a little bit,
Speaker 1: just to get it out of your system.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to give up the fan guy. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to give up the guy who picks the
Speaker 2: perfect fan without even needing my help.
Speaker 1: Our situations were very different, obviously, because I had been
Speaker 1: married for what seventeen years, and so when I got
Speaker 1: out of my marriage, I made a concerted effort to
Speaker 1: be single and to not dive into something for a
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. First and foremost, I wanted to reconnect
Speaker 1: and really make sure my kids are okay. And I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to concentrate or spend any energy anywhere else,
Speaker 1: and I knew I couldn't and I wouldn't be very
Speaker 1: good at that unraveling my life hosting the show that
Speaker 1: I was hosting all of the shows. It was a mess,
Speaker 1: and so I knew I was not going to be
Speaker 1: good for anybody, and I was just going to stay
Speaker 1: single and date a little bit. But that made me
Speaker 1: a professional third wheel for all my married friends who
Speaker 1: have kids, and I was even This is the the
Speaker 1: pin ultimate moment is I was the twenty seventh wheel.
Speaker 1: There were thirteen couples on a huge birthday trip down
Speaker 1: to Cabo for one of my dearest friends. She was
Speaker 1: nice enough, they were nice enough. This couple was still
Speaker 1: nice enough to include me. And there were thirteen lovely
Speaker 1: couples and Chris Harrison, I was the twenty seventh wheel.
Speaker 1: It was awkward, it was weird, and I knew everybody there,
Speaker 1: so it was still friendly and everybody was nice to
Speaker 1: make me feel included. But it was a thing. It
Speaker 1: was still a thing to be like, I'm alone here.
Speaker 2: How did that feel?
Speaker 1: It's intimidating. It's a lot to take in. You have to, really,
Speaker 1: I think one of the most powerful things in the world,
Speaker 1: and this is what I wanted to take from this podcast.
Speaker 1: It's the most powerful thing in the world, man or woman,
Speaker 1: to be comfortable being alone. If you can master that,
Speaker 1: if you can force yourself to be alone and be
Speaker 1: comfortable going to a movie, going to dinner, traveling, even
Speaker 1: really being comfortable in your own skin being alone, you
Speaker 1: will be the most powerful person. And I know it's
Speaker 1: tougher for women. This is the patriarchy speaking here. I
Speaker 1: know it's tougher. Like I can go to a bar
Speaker 1: and even though it's a little awkward, you know, I
Speaker 1: know I'm not going to probably be hit on by
Speaker 1: a bunch of creepy guys.
Speaker 2: No, that is true. I mean, now, when I was
Speaker 2: traveling for work, if I went and sat at a
Speaker 2: bar just because I'm getting dinner alone, that it was.
Speaker 2: It has a different look to it, which is totally unfair.
Speaker 2: But also I think maybe it's I will agree it's
Speaker 2: tougher for women, but I think because women share more,
Speaker 2: we talk more, we engage more, and so when you're alone,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it feels lonelier. But then I
Speaker 2: also think women are stronger than men no offense emotionally,
Speaker 2: so maybe it's hard for men to be alone. I'm
Speaker 2: thinking of how usually after loss men get into relationships. Quicker,
Speaker 2: let me ask you this, though, you're talking about the
Speaker 2: comfortability of being alone in this character getting back to
Speaker 2: sex and the City. Seema, she's been single a long
Speaker 2: time and one of the things she says to Carrie
Speaker 2: in this conversation is Carrie, you've had two great loves.
Speaker 2: I've had none. Yeah, And I think she's in her
Speaker 2: fifties and she's saying, I don't know if I ever
Speaker 2: will have a great love, And of course Carrie's telling
Speaker 2: her you will, and she's saying, I don't even want
Speaker 2: to hear that. And watching that scene, I kind of
Speaker 2: realized this is something I don't understand. I don't understand
Speaker 2: what it's like to be older and to maybe feel
Speaker 2: like you've never had that great love, you've not even
Speaker 2: loved and lost, you've never had it. I don't understand
Speaker 2: what being single for a really long time feels like. So,
Speaker 2: even if you've gotten comfortable with being on your own,
Speaker 2: what happens when you're just lonely though, when you just
Speaker 2: want companionship? And does that make it harder to be
Speaker 2: around couples when you're in that place.
Speaker 1: It does, and I think it would be harder to
Speaker 1: be around. And it's how I think the age thing
Speaker 1: is huge here. I think for Kendall going through this
Speaker 1: at twenty five, it's very different than when I was
Speaker 1: going through it. And even when I was married, I
Speaker 1: had a good friend of mine get divorced. My best friend,
Speaker 1: oldest friend in the world. He had gotten divorced and
Speaker 1: he had been with this girl since junior high high school,
Speaker 1: so I mean, he was ready to tear the world open,
Speaker 1: and he did. He was going to Vegas, he was partying,
Speaker 1: go you know, it was nuts, and he came out
Speaker 1: and visited us and we didn't have kids yet, but
Speaker 1: we were married, and he went out like we would
Speaker 1: go to dinner and he's like, well, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go out in LA and he brought a girl home
Speaker 1: to my house and I'm like, dude, we're in such
Speaker 1: different life places right now, Like I love you, but
Speaker 1: I had to draw some boundaries of just not hanging
Speaker 1: out with him very much at that time, which is fine.
Speaker 1: We're still dear friends. But it was I think it's
Speaker 1: different when you're older and my friends saw me getting
Speaker 1: divorced realized what I was going through, the kind of
Speaker 1: be there for me. And when you're older, the wives
Speaker 1: are pretty happy when you come take their husband away.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, go play golf.
Speaker 2: I love the alone time. Well, like I love your
Speaker 2: divorced friend Chris. He's great, he takes you on walks.
Speaker 1: But there was also that I was you know, obviously
Speaker 1: I was hosting the shows. I could go to a
Speaker 1: lot of events, get invited to a lot of events.
Speaker 1: I didn't have my person right, you know how that
Speaker 1: is if you go to the Globe. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: didn't have a plus one for all these parties I
Speaker 1: was going to. And at the time, because I was
Speaker 1: older and divorced, most of my friends were married and
Speaker 1: most of them had kids. So it was very difficult
Speaker 1: to call one of my buddies and say, hey, you
Speaker 1: want to go to this party with me, because that's
Speaker 1: when the wives really were like, yeah, like, no, you're single,
Speaker 1: You're going into a Hollywood party. We know what Harrison's doing,
Speaker 1: or we think we know. I don't really want you.
Speaker 2: It's okay to go golf. I don't want you to
Speaker 2: go party.
Speaker 1: And I definitely felt a pullback from my married friends,
Speaker 1: especially the women on that.
Speaker 2: Did you get to the point where you felt lonely?
Speaker 2: Or was that time being single kind of all good,
Speaker 2: rediscovering yourself, learning how to date time both.
Speaker 1: There were time I knew it was good for me,
Speaker 1: but I'm like you, I had been married essentially since
Speaker 1: I was eighteen years old. I'd never been alone. So
Speaker 1: that's another reason I was forcing myself to feel I
Speaker 1: didn't know if I was dependent independent. You have this
Speaker 1: idea of who you are, but you don't know until
Speaker 1: you go through this. Turns out I'm a pretty independent person.
Speaker 1: I did like my alone time, sometimes too much. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of lonely times. You know, when I
Speaker 1: had the kids, the house was full, it's loud, there's homework,
Speaker 1: you're doing stuff, you're driving all over. It was the
Speaker 1: week I didn't have the kids, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: especially that first night, when it's so quiet and you're
Speaker 1: just laying there, and if I didn't have anything to do,
Speaker 1: you're just you know, home, and you cook yourself in,
Speaker 1: cooking dinner for one, eating for one. It's tough to
Speaker 1: force yourself into that emotional space. It does get lonely.
Speaker 1: I totally feel that, and to your original question of
Speaker 1: when you're older and you just feel like, I'm never
Speaker 1: going to find that, and then you get to the
Speaker 1: point where you think to yourself, I don't even want
Speaker 1: to I'm so set in my ways. But even for
Speaker 1: people like that, I think you can still meet that
Speaker 1: one person that just shakes everything up.
Speaker 2: Usually when you are fully like I'm done, that's when
Speaker 2: the person comes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that when that love rock hits you,
Speaker 1: it's when you least expect it to. I think when
Speaker 1: we're desperately looking for something, it's hard to find because
Speaker 1: you're trying to put so much pressure on.
Speaker 2: Every meeting every day as the single friend when you
Speaker 2: were in those single friend years, Because that's what this
Speaker 2: is all about, looking back, what did you enjoy more
Speaker 2: if you were around other couples twenty seventh wheeling it
Speaker 2: or if you were around other single friends those couple
Speaker 2: other guys who were single and you were going out together.
Speaker 1: It was both the only thing I love because I
Speaker 1: have dear, dear friends, as you know, because now they're
Speaker 1: all friends of ours that they were amazing and they
Speaker 1: you know, really included me and made sure especially on holidays,
Speaker 1: you know, so look out for your single friends on holidays.
Speaker 1: Make sure they have a place to go on Easter, Christmas,
Speaker 1: New Year's you know, all the things. That was wonderful
Speaker 1: to have people in my life that would just say no, no,
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous, you're not going to be because I would
Speaker 1: if my ex had the kids for Christmas, I would
Speaker 1: go see them Christmas morning and the Christmas night. You know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to stay in California, so I wasn't with
Speaker 1: my family. I would be alone, and that's lonely. I
Speaker 1: don't care who you are. So my friends would say no, no,
Speaker 1: come have dinner. My mistake and what I quickly learned
Speaker 1: was I was filling that void. I would go to
Speaker 1: parties because I got invited to a lot of events,
Speaker 1: and so I started going. I went solo to a
Speaker 1: lot of these things. I was trying to kind of
Speaker 1: push my boundaries, and I just found I was filling
Speaker 1: the void with nonsense. You know, like my grandmother I said,
Speaker 1: you know, surround yourself with people who were equal or
Speaker 1: greater than I was not doing that. I was going
Speaker 1: to poker tournaments or parties or events, and I was
Speaker 1: just like I'd leave at the end of the night
Speaker 1: going what the hell? I felt more lonely because I
Speaker 1: didn't have one good conversation. I didn't make one good connection.
Speaker 1: It was a soulless Hollywood party that didn't give me anything.
Speaker 1: And so it's like that drug where you take drugs
Speaker 1: and you get a very momentary high and then you realize,
Speaker 1: I'm going to come down lower than I was.
Speaker 2: So you experienced all the different single friend, third Wheel
Speaker 2: twenty seventh Wheel moments.
Speaker 1: You actually literally had a.
Speaker 2: Very similar experience to the sex and the City scene
Speaker 2: we're talking I mean, the sorry, the end, just like
Speaker 2: that scene we're talking about, which was that you were
Speaker 2: the twenty seventh Wheel in this Cobo trip. And in
Speaker 2: this situation, the character Sema is saying, no, I don't
Speaker 2: want to do this house. I don't want to do
Speaker 2: this rental house in the Hamptons. What would you have
Speaker 2: done in that situation? Would you have still done a
Speaker 2: rental a summer rental with a friend of yours if
Speaker 2: they were suddenly in a relationship.
Speaker 1: I'm on SEMA's side. I'm team Sema on this, not
Speaker 1: having watched it, but just feeling she had. She got
Speaker 1: into this idea with the notion that it's her and
Speaker 1: Carrie hot Girl summer. We're gonna have a blast in
Speaker 1: the Hamptons. That dynamic completely changed. Carrie expected her to
Speaker 1: just roll with it. No, it's still going to be fun.
Speaker 1: Carrie's getting the best of both worlds, Sema. I'm going
Speaker 1: to have you. I get to hang out and have fun,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to have Aiden and I get to
Speaker 1: hook up with him.
Speaker 2: Carrie being selfish again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I get to go to bed with him,
Speaker 1: and I get to wake up with him, and we
Speaker 1: can go on long walks and I'll be with you.
Speaker 1: You know, we'll have fun. That's not fun for Sema.
Speaker 1: Seema's not getting her fill.
Speaker 2: I actually think Carrie is prioritizing herself to the point
Speaker 2: of that she's going to make both these people she
Speaker 2: cares about unhappy because Aiden is going to be like, well,
Speaker 2: I want to be with you for this summer, but
Speaker 2: you're with Sema. And SEMA's going to say, well, this
Speaker 2: was supposed to be our summer in the Hampton's and
Speaker 2: now Aiden's always around. I think from both perspectives, you
Speaker 2: can't change the parameters of what the original setup was.
Speaker 2: You know, when you're talking about something this big and
Speaker 2: I feel that way. I don't know, honestly, even down
Speaker 2: to a dinner. Sometimes you and I have gone to
Speaker 2: dinner and we think we're going on a couple's dinner,
Speaker 2: and then our friends show up with their kids and
Speaker 2: we're thinking, wait, we thought this was a kind of
Speaker 2: a couple's double date night. Now it's sort of family dinner,
Speaker 2: which would be fine, but you can't change the parameters
Speaker 2: without a heads up and an FYI, and hey, we
Speaker 2: thought we were getting into something different here.
Speaker 1: The question I have for you, and this really pertains
Speaker 1: to women more than men, because guys, we really don't
Speaker 1: do this. But this episode kind of touched on this
Speaker 1: as well. Needing validation about the relationship you in, like
Speaker 1: Carrie wants to hear that everyone's excited for her about
Speaker 1: her and Aiden and needing that validation, and especially needing
Speaker 1: it from a single friend who's kind of lonely and
Speaker 1: trying to get through her own stuff. Do you feel
Speaker 1: that from any of your friends. Have you ever experienced
Speaker 1: that guy? Because guys really don't like if a buddy
Speaker 1: of mine starts dating a girl, he's not like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: what do you think they may ask? What you think,
Speaker 1: but it's not such a big deal.
Speaker 2: But you had me meet your friends when you kind
Speaker 2: I mean, didn't you hope your friends liked me?
Speaker 1: No, for sure, but it's not such a I didn't
Speaker 1: need their approval like it wouldn't. Our relationship didn't hinge on.
Speaker 1: I didn't need their positivity. I didn't need them to say,
Speaker 1: make me feel good about myself.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting. I definitely sense, yes, that Carrie wants her
Speaker 2: friends to be happy for her. I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's that well, I don't know. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: I would say I would want my friends to be
Speaker 2: happy for me. I would want them to like the
Speaker 2: person I was dating. And you can see that Carrie's
Speaker 2: a little hurt that she feels Sema isn't happy for her.
Speaker 2: And I do think Carrie's valid in that. But this
Speaker 2: is a very great area of Also, how much is
Speaker 2: Carrie talking about this relationship? And this I can see
Speaker 2: is a female thing because with women, what do I
Speaker 2: always tell you, talking is the activity. I have lost
Speaker 2: my voice still from this girl's trip I went on
Speaker 2: because I talked to thirteen women for three straight days,
Speaker 2: and for I can imagine when you're the single friend
Speaker 2: the third or fifth, or seventh or twenty seventh wheel.
Speaker 2: If your friends are talking about their relationships all the time,
Speaker 2: if you're the only one who's not at least got
Speaker 2: something going on that could be wearing. I remember I
Speaker 2: was at a lunch once with a couple of girlfriends,
Speaker 2: and my one friend was planning her wedding, I was engaged,
Speaker 2: another girl was dating somebody, and this girlfriend of ours,
Speaker 2: I mean, she didn't have even a date on the horizon,
Speaker 2: and she kind of had a meltdown mid lunch. We're
Speaker 2: talking and she literally slammed her fork on the table
Speaker 2: and said, if you don't stop talking about your relationships,
Speaker 2: I'm going to kill myself.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, okay, And there was this.
Speaker 2: Deafening silence in the entire restaurant, and it was too much, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, that was I was her. We all thought
Speaker 2: that was kind of a crazy moment. But looking back
Speaker 2: on it through this lens, I think, you know, but
Speaker 2: maybe she just felt so isolated from the conversation all
Speaker 2: the time and felt like she couldn't contribute, And maybe
Speaker 2: I needed to have more empathy.
Speaker 1: For that, And I think I would take it a
Speaker 1: step further. The kid talk. You know. I think it's
Speaker 1: always great when you go in and we all want
Speaker 1: to catch up on each other's kids and what's going on.
Speaker 1: But especially if you have kids and the other couple
Speaker 1: doesn't or the other person doesn't, Please don't spend the
Speaker 1: entire dinner talking about little Susie, little Johnny in everything
Speaker 1: they're doing. It's wonderful to be caught up. I don't
Speaker 1: need to know every time little Timmy got up to
Speaker 1: bat and t ball, and I definitely don't need to
Speaker 1: see the videos little Susie's piano recital or SOFP but whatever,
Speaker 1: same thing, like, take a moment, catch everybody up, move on.
Speaker 2: I was thinking the other day, remember when we used
Speaker 2: to do disposable cameras.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so.
Speaker 2: Maybe you'd get your vacation pictures back months later and
Speaker 2: maybe you show someone a few photos. And we actually
Speaker 2: all even thought that was a bit exhausting. Now we
Speaker 2: show everybody pictures and photos and videos from like every
Speaker 2: event all the time. So it really takes a lot
Speaker 2: to be a supportive friend and look at all that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know what, you just put that in perspective.
Speaker 2: For me, I need to be more empathetic about the
Speaker 2: single friend and the third wheel because I am the
Speaker 2: one who's a little All my friends talk about their
Speaker 2: kids and I listen and I'm supportive. Then I start
Speaker 2: to claze over a little bit. And it's not that
Speaker 2: I don't care about their kids. I love their kids,
Speaker 2: but I don't have kids, and I don't understand all
Speaker 2: these moments, And you know what, on the note of
Speaker 2: Sema and setting, honestly, I just kind of excuse myself
Speaker 2: from those conversations. I'll listen, I ask about their lives.
Speaker 2: I want to hear, but if it's getting to the
Speaker 2: point where I know I'm starting to be I don't
Speaker 2: want to be bored by my friends, so I'll kind
Speaker 2: of get up and go have a different convo and
Speaker 2: change the vibe.
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, when it comes
Speaker 1: to the Seama Carey Bradshaw moment, it's the difference of
Speaker 1: your expectations going into a situation. If Seema thought she
Speaker 1: was going in for a girl's week or girls month
Speaker 1: whatever in the Hamptons, and all of a sudden she
Speaker 1: wants to change the dynamic, It's the difference between your
Speaker 1: expectations and then being forced into a situation she was
Speaker 1: being forced into a situation that she did not want
Speaker 1: and wasn't prepared for and didn't want to set up for.
Speaker 1: And so that's what's not fair. You change the dynamic.
Speaker 1: You did a one eighty on her, and so yeah, Carrie,
Speaker 1: once again you're selfish.
Speaker 2: But it's it's like Kendall was just saying, I mean, Kendall,
Speaker 2: that was so interesting to hear from you that you
Speaker 2: see positives about also being that single friend that you
Speaker 2: know your boyfriend can set this person up or you know,
Speaker 2: you can ensure that she's not alone. But there are
Speaker 2: boundaries both ways. Kendall, you got to tell your friend
Speaker 2: your roommate, which is harder. Hey, sometimes I need a
Speaker 2: date night. Have you been able to have those conversations.
Speaker 3: Yeah? I have.
Speaker 1: And what's the negative? You said positive? So what's the
Speaker 1: worst thing about it?
Speaker 3: She struggles finding a person because she sees my boyfriend
Speaker 3: and how good he is to me and how he's
Speaker 3: a great guy, and she goes on these dates and
Speaker 3: she kind of starts to compare these guys to my boyfriend.
Speaker 3: So it's almost like she has a hard time like
Speaker 3: finding the guys that meet her expectations. So that's definitely
Speaker 3: a negative to it, just kind of feeling lonely.
Speaker 2: On her end. Well, you can't take that on Kendall.
Speaker 2: No matter, she's going to have her expectations from guys.
Speaker 2: She's seen her whole life, and that's not all on
Speaker 2: you and your boyfriend. I will say again, I think
Speaker 2: what's so great about this conversation on and just like
Speaker 2: that is it brings up as we're talking about the
Speaker 2: boundary setting, think you also have to say to your friend,
Speaker 2: I can't fulfill you emotionally, like I can't be meeting
Speaker 2: the needs that a romantic relationship would be for you.
Speaker 2: I can't ensure that you're not lonely. Again. One person
Speaker 2: can't be all things, and just like your partner can't
Speaker 2: be all things, if you're single romantically, your friend can't
Speaker 2: be all things. I've had issues with friends before where
Speaker 2: they were single and they kind of were I think
Speaker 2: demanding too much from me of hey, like I can't
Speaker 2: have dinner with you every Saturday night, you know, But
Speaker 2: then it goes the other way of Hey, when you're
Speaker 2: the one in a relationship, you can't expect that your
Speaker 2: single friend is going to always be okay with you.
Speaker 2: Canceling on them for the boyfriend and that kind of thing,
Speaker 2: and that's a very carey thing to do.
Speaker 1: So as we wrap this up, might takeaways and giveaways
Speaker 1: from this ay, And I'm speaking from experience because again,
Speaker 1: I was that third wheel professionally for a long time.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to be that third wheel. Don't be
Speaker 1: afraid to be alone. It is intimidating to go to
Speaker 1: a movie alone, it's intimidating to go eat. It's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Put yourself in the uncomfortable. Try to make that comfortable
Speaker 1: for yourself, because man, when you own that, it's really powerful.
Speaker 1: You feel like you can do anything because it opens
Speaker 1: up every situation that you feel like you can just
Speaker 1: walk into. And it really also opens you up to
Speaker 1: finding a healthy relationship. I think it made me more
Speaker 1: prepared that I'm confident, I'm happy, I'm good, I'm good
Speaker 1: as a father, I'm good as a friend. I can
Speaker 1: give myself to somebody, and I think it makes me
Speaker 1: a better boyfriend, fyance husband. So that's my takeaway. Set
Speaker 1: those boundaries, be comfortable with it, but don't be afraid
Speaker 1: to be alone. Any massive takeaway lessons for you, LZ.
Speaker 2: Well there's a part of the scene where Sema says
Speaker 2: that she needs space and Carrie says, no, I don't
Speaker 2: want to give you space. Space is bad for friendship,
Speaker 2: and I disagree. I think that's an immature thing of
Speaker 2: Carrie to say, and I think the space goes both ways.
Speaker 2: It is okay we live in an era of constant connection.
Speaker 2: It is okay to not talk to your friend or
Speaker 2: your partner every day, and it is okay that someone
Speaker 2: maybe doesn't want to go on that dinner and be
Speaker 2: the third wheel. And it is okay that you want
Speaker 2: the date night and you don't want your friend to
Speaker 2: come be the third wheel. Make space, set those boundaries,
Speaker 2: and you know what, maybe this third wheel thing is
Speaker 2: a great gauge for both friendships and partnerships. You want
Speaker 2: to be with somebody who is okay being the third
Speaker 2: wheel sometimes but not all the time. You want somebody
Speaker 2: who knows who they are, a friend who knows here's
Speaker 2: the space I need, here's the kind of friendship I want.
Speaker 2: And you also want a partner who knows that. And
Speaker 2: then you want a person a both a friend and
Speaker 2: a partner who's like, hey, I can hang with you
Speaker 2: and your boyfriend or hey, yeah, I'd love to come
Speaker 2: spend time with you and your girls. So really find
Speaker 2: the people who are cool being the third wheel.
Speaker 1: A real friend is going to be there whether they're
Speaker 1: dating not dating third wheel, they can do both and
Speaker 1: be there for you. Thank you for this. That was
Speaker 1: a great topic today. I loved it. It's very interesting
Speaker 1: because it opens up and obviously it hits personal to
Speaker 1: me because I did it for so long. But it
Speaker 1: was a very interesting topic.
Speaker 2: We may bring Kendall's boyfriend and roommate on. No, we
Speaker 2: won't do that to you, Kendall.
Speaker 1: And one last thing, this is a huge week. We
Speaker 1: already dropped our daughter off at college. I was at
Speaker 1: the gym this morning and ran into a mom that
Speaker 1: we know, and I said, how are you doing. She said, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, I have so much anxiety. Just dropped our
Speaker 1: son off for the first day at middle school junior
Speaker 1: high we used to call it. And she's like, it's
Speaker 1: just so different. The kids are so much bigger than
Speaker 1: he is. And I remember that vaguely of that jump
Speaker 1: from fifth to sixth grade or six to seventh depending
Speaker 1: on where you are in the country and how the
Speaker 1: grades work, or that move from middle school to high
Speaker 1: school when all of a sudden you see your kid
Speaker 1: up against an eighteen year old man and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what are they doing around these massive
Speaker 1: human beings? It is. It's a lot, and so I
Speaker 1: know a lot of parents are making that journey going
Speaker 1: out of town, dropping kids at college, or getting going
Speaker 1: at kindergarten and elementary school, junior high, high school. So again,
Speaker 1: I said it last week, but I just I was
Speaker 1: reminded of it today that a lot of people are
Speaker 1: going through it, and so I feel for you. It's
Speaker 1: an exciting time, but I know it's also an anxiety
Speaker 1: ridden time. And for all the parents whose kids are
Speaker 1: going through rush, especially the girl moms and dads. Wow,
Speaker 1: do I feel you because we have friends going through
Speaker 1: that as well. Every stage is so fun, it's exciting,
Speaker 1: and it's just new and different. But I feel for
Speaker 1: you and this too. She'll pass and we will get
Speaker 1: through it together. Thank you for joining us today. Always
Speaker 1: love talking to you and diving into these topics, and
Speaker 1: we'll do it again because we have a lot more
Speaker 1: or to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at the most Dramatic Pod ever, and make sure
Speaker 1: to write us a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next time.