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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best to Coast to Coast podcast,

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Speaker 1: And if you want to hear more than just this

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Speaker 1: highlight of the show, become a Coast Insider and you

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Speaker 1: can listen to the complete program, plus recent episodes featuring

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Speaker 1: the true story of Butch Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kid,

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Speaker 1: the emerging field of regenerative medicine, and the mysterious site

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Speaker 1: known as America's Stonehenge. Head on over to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast a um dot com and sign up for Coast

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Speaker 1: Insider to start listening. Now, here's a highlight from Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast AM on I Heart Radio. How do you

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Speaker 1: take on some of the most iconic characters in the

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Speaker 1: world and make them your own? Our guest tonight, as

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Speaker 1: firsthand knowledge, Kenny Johnson is here with us. We've been

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Speaker 1: talking on and off on on air here and and

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Speaker 1: off air about some of these shows. Uh, one of

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Speaker 1: my favorites. I grew up on the courtships of Eddie's father,

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Speaker 1: so I wanted Bill Bixby to be my dad. Not

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Speaker 1: that I had anything against my dad, but I just

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Speaker 1: wanted a cool, hipster dad that you know, never hit.

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Speaker 1: So I was all about that and then along comes

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Speaker 1: the Incredible, which I thought it was funny. I asked

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Speaker 1: you off fair and I'll bring it up real quickly.

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Speaker 1: I needed to know this because my buddies and I

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Speaker 1: still have a bet about this growing up. When when

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Speaker 1: the name was changed from the iconic Bruce Banner to

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Speaker 1: David Banner as David Trader, I was very happy that

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Speaker 1: the superhero had my name. But the whole deal was

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Speaker 1: I remember everybody talking about, well, they had to change

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Speaker 1: the name because Bruce just sounded way too gay for

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Speaker 1: a lead character. My oh my, and you're you're aware

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Speaker 1: of that weird urban legend, right. I have heard of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it always makes me chuckle. Uh and

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Speaker 1: it's sort of sad and peculiar to h But no,

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Speaker 1: the reason I was trying what I was trying to

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Speaker 1: do when I did created the Hulk because they all

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Speaker 1: they gave me the opportunity to do. Let me see

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Speaker 1: what they said. We have five of the Marvel comic superheroes.

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Speaker 1: Captain America was one of them, The Man from Atlantis

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Speaker 1: was one of the Human Torch was one. Mary Marvel

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Speaker 1: was one, or I think it was Miss Marvel, I remember, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And uh, and this thing ludicrous, think all the Incredible Hulk,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want to do any of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: I I I was, didn't I do by a six

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Speaker 1: million dollar man biannic woman Already I'm be coming into

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Speaker 1: the sci fi pigeonhole, you know. And uh, but but Susie,

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Speaker 1: my wife had given me, who's the most literate person

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Speaker 1: I've ever known, except our daughter, Katie, had given me

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Speaker 1: a copy of Leams a Rob to read. And I

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Speaker 1: was in the middle of reading it. So I had

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Speaker 1: Jean Valjean and the Fugitive and concept in my head,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, well, let me see, there's a

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Speaker 1: way to take a little picture of Hugo and a

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Speaker 1: little bit of Robert Louis Stevenson's Jackel and Hide and

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Speaker 1: this ridiculous thing called The Incredible Hulk and make it

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Speaker 1: an adult and an adult drama. And I said. I

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Speaker 1: went to Frank Price, who was head of Universal and

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Speaker 1: had been courting me about this, and I said, Okay, look,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it, but it's got to be done my way,

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Speaker 1: and it's got to be my casting. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to have some actors shoved down my throat that you

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Speaker 1: guys want. I want to know, so I want to know,

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Speaker 1: you know. So they said all right, and they and

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Speaker 1: I wrote the pilot for The Incredible Hulk incept seven days,

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Speaker 1: the whole two hour movie in seven days script and

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Speaker 1: we shot the white pages of my first draft. But

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Speaker 1: when they sent the agents sent the draft to the

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Speaker 1: only actor that I wanted to go to was Bill Bixby,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and I'm told that when Bill was handed

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Speaker 1: the script, Bill said, I don't even want to read

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Speaker 1: anything that's called The Hulk, you know, and this agents said,

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Speaker 1: yes you do. And Bill read it. And we had

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Speaker 1: met each other just casually a couple of times earlier.

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Speaker 1: But uh, but I had seen him in a television

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Speaker 1: play in I seventy three called steam Bath. You can

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Speaker 1: get it on Netflix. It's a It was a TV

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Speaker 1: drama about people that are in a steam bath, a

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Speaker 1: Valerie parion, Bill Bixby and and several other people, and

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Speaker 1: they slowly realized there's no way out, and that what

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Speaker 1: they really are in his purgatory and the little Puerto

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Speaker 1: Rican steambat attendant who has just sort of knocking around

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Speaker 1: is really God and it's it's and Bill did a

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Speaker 1: performance that was just to die for. And it stuck

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Speaker 1: with me so strongly for four years that when I

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Speaker 1: was casting, uh that when I said who do I want?

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Speaker 1: I said I want Bill, you know, and uh. And

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Speaker 1: he read the script and came in and said, are

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Speaker 1: we really gonna do? It's gonna be like this? Do

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Speaker 1: I get a suffer? Is it gonna be a drama?

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Speaker 1: Psychological drive said yes, that's what I want to do

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Speaker 1: and uh, and that's that's what we set out to do.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we were. We were very lucky and

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Speaker 1: had had a good run. It's something when you're watching

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Speaker 1: what is essentially a corny superhero movie and or a

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Speaker 1: TV series and to have had the empathy and ethos

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Speaker 1: that you brought. I remember crying at the end of episodes,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I wasn't an overly sensitive kid, but

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Speaker 1: we all had that connection with kind of feeling like

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Speaker 1: the loner at times and sometimes just not fitting in it.

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Speaker 1: No matter how good things start to get you, you've

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Speaker 1: kind of got the reality of life again. And then

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Speaker 1: there is there any more iconic scene in any TV

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Speaker 1: program than the bags slung over the shoulder and the

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Speaker 1: thumb going out. That's right, and Joe Harnell's brilliant piece

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Speaker 1: of music that became iconic in its own right right now.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's exactly what what I was striving for was.

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Speaker 1: And that's, as I said, echoes of that have come

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Speaker 1: into the novel and the Man of Legends too, because

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Speaker 1: here's a guy that is cursed essentially the a kind

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Speaker 1: of way. It's the classic Greek tragedy where the hero

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Speaker 1: brings down upon himself. The hero tampers with things better

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Speaker 1: left to God, and the gods don't like that. And

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Speaker 1: it's a reluctant hero that's right, oh absolutely, which makes

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Speaker 1: it even better if you've got a guy out there.

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Speaker 1: That's why I always found characters like Superman and Captain

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Speaker 1: America so bland, because what else could they do? And

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Speaker 1: in this case, he had to temperate because even in

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Speaker 1: his hero form he was a violent force of nature.

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Speaker 1: Is very bad. I think part of the reason that

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Speaker 1: connected with so many people, um and and the largest

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Speaker 1: audience was adult women, kids. The largest audience for the

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Speaker 1: Hall for all of my shows has been adult women

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Speaker 1: and then adult men, and then teens and then kids

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Speaker 1: in that order. It's like the perfect demographics. And I

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Speaker 1: think David's because I've always been more interested in in

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Speaker 1: relationships and the emotional structure and and uh uh and

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Speaker 1: and the characterizations of people uh than I have in

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Speaker 1: blowing things up in spaceships and all of that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff. I mean, V was never about reptilians and

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Speaker 1: big spaceships and everything. V was about power and about

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Speaker 1: how you how you react, how different people react when

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Speaker 1: suddenly this hyperpower rolls into their life and changes their

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Speaker 1: life forever, and how did they react to it. While

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Speaker 1: some people will suck up to it like the V

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Speaker 1: she French did in World War Two was sucking up

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Speaker 1: to the Nazis and a granddad had to aggrandize themselves

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Speaker 1: and to benefit themselves. Uh. The middle of the road,

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Speaker 1: people will say that they'll be the go along to

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Speaker 1: get along people and they'll keep my head down and

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Speaker 1: they won't bother me. Um. And then other people will say,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, no, this is this power is being abused

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Speaker 1: and we have to fight back. And that's that's what

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Speaker 1: V was really about. Was it was Spartacus in the

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Speaker 1: Revolt of the slaves, it was the American Revolution, it

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Speaker 1: was apartheid, it was all of that when unoppressed people,

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Speaker 1: you know, are determined to fight back against hyperpower and um.

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Speaker 1: And the exciting thing for me now is that I

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Speaker 1: discovered a couple of years ago that I owned the

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Speaker 1: motion picture rights to v and we are setting out

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Speaker 1: to try to do it and set it up as

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Speaker 1: a really big movie. All of the major studios came

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Speaker 1: after it. And you know, when something like that happen'd

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Speaker 1: you get a lot of new best friends in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they all came after me and offer

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Speaker 1: So it was this something you created or was this

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Speaker 1: something you adapted from the story that came out of

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Speaker 1: my pea brain that was yours? Yeah, exactly, And well,

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Speaker 1: bravo sir. That was truly one of the best sci

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Speaker 1: fi movies and mini series I've ever seen. Well, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it, and it you know what it's it is

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Speaker 1: the highest rated work of high science fiction in the

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Speaker 1: history of television. And really it even beat The Day After, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was, well the Day After. It was really more

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Speaker 1: of a docu drama, but it had that sci fi

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Speaker 1: kind of creep factor of what's it like after the Holocaust? Again?

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Speaker 1: Again it was it was it was more of a

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Speaker 1: what of you then? You'd have to say, well, Dr.

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Speaker 1: Strangelove was science fiction. Two or so was fail safe

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Speaker 1: science fiction. But I got you right. Um, but V

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Speaker 1: was was clearly, you know, sort of purely science fiction.

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Speaker 1: And uh. And so the plan, the game plan is

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Speaker 1: to do V the movie first, and then I wrote

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Speaker 1: a novel a few years ago called V The Second Generation,

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Speaker 1: which picks the story up twenty years later. So we

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Speaker 1: have enough to do really a sci fi trilogy, and

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Speaker 1: and we're endeavoring. I decided not to do it with

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Speaker 1: the studios because I was concerned about getting edged out

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Speaker 1: of the creative control. And no, could that happen? No, no, no.

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Speaker 1: But but speaking of creative control, I have a funny

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Speaker 1: Stanley story just quickly to share with you. For the

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Speaker 1: second two hour movie that we did, UM of the Incredible,

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Speaker 1: the Incredible Hulk. Yeah. Um, I wrote a scene where

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Speaker 1: the where the Hulk had to fight with a bear

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Speaker 1: because I was always looking for worthy adversary, you know,

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Speaker 1: and um, and I wrote a scene really good. And

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Speaker 1: I was sending the scripts to Stand just out of courtesy.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't really that involved with the show, but I

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Speaker 1: wanted to see what was going on. And he called me,

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Speaker 1: and he said, God, I love it's to see where

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Speaker 1: the bear is great. A robot it's a bear is great.

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Speaker 1: To fight is great. But you know, Kenny, it really

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Speaker 1: really ought to be a robot bear. And I said, no, Stan,

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Speaker 1: let me explain why. Okay, uh, an audience, particularly an

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Speaker 1: adult audience, will only buy so much. Okay, they'll only

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Speaker 1: give you so many buys. And and now now stand,

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Speaker 1: step back and think about this. We're asking the American

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Speaker 1: people and the worldwide people to buy that Bill Bixby

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Speaker 1: metamorphoses into Lou for Rigno. I said, that's a really

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Speaker 1: big buy. Stand and not just Lou Frigno, but a

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Speaker 1: green and he's green, which I said, Stan, why isn't

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Speaker 1: he red? And I said, the color of rage is red.

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Speaker 1: But they wouldn't let me change the color. Got to

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Speaker 1: change his name, but not the color. And uh uh,

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Speaker 1: And I said, Stan, when you add a robot bear

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Speaker 1: on top of that initial by, you're out of the

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Speaker 1: park and it doesn't make sense anymore. And it's no

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Speaker 1: longer an adult show. And Stan and I went around

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Speaker 1: and around about it for a week or more. He

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Speaker 1: was on the East coast and I was on the

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Speaker 1: west but finally he called me up and said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, You're right, And he said, you you got

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Speaker 1: what you're saying is exactly right. I get it. And

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Speaker 1: since then he has so often said, bless his heart,

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Speaker 1: that he wished I had done all of his shows

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Speaker 1: because because he really felt that the Hulk had had

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Speaker 1: actually sort of kick started you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: other things too. Um and uh, it was it was

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Speaker 1: very rewarding to have somebody that I admire and uh

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Speaker 1: as much as stand to, you know, to come around

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Speaker 1: to that feeling. Now it's important as much as I

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Speaker 1: love and respect Bill Bixby and the work that he did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's important for a lot of people to know, because

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Speaker 1: the end of the series itself, people just remember as

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Speaker 1: the few two hour movies, the Return of the Incredible Hulk,

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Speaker 1: the Something of the Incredible Hulk, and the Death of

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Speaker 1: the Incredible Hulk, and and they introduced Thor and they

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Speaker 1: introduced Matt Murdoch the Daredevil. But you had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with those two hour reunion movies. No, I stepped

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Speaker 1: I was not involved with any of those and uh

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Speaker 1: and I have never even seen them as a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, because I have my friends who worked on

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Speaker 1: them said, you don't want to any they were not

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Speaker 1: what we did. It was not the quality because you see,

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Speaker 1: the theme that was running through all of the Hulk

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Speaker 1: was the enemy within. That's what Bixby was was struggling with,

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Speaker 1: and and I tried to use those that kind of

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Speaker 1: theme all the way through because so many of us

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Speaker 1: have different kinds of enemies within. With with with Dr Banner,

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Speaker 1: it was anger, but with other people it's drugs, drink,

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Speaker 1: it's alcohol, it's obsession, it's greed, it's whatever. And we

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Speaker 1: would do the shows that were thematically we you know that,

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Speaker 1: so that we could really substantive have some substance underneath.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's probably what's made who I've been

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Speaker 1: so lucky to have have created the things that really

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Speaker 1: have become kind of iconic. Dave and Stuck because I

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Speaker 1: never got into this business to try to get rich

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Speaker 1: or or be famous or anything like that. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a good storyteller, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: it was it was so important to me to tell

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Speaker 1: stories that were important. So what I've tried to do

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Speaker 1: is take a high concept situation and then fill it

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Speaker 1: with substance underneath. So that when people I get so

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Speaker 1: many letters from people about v for example, where they say,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was twelve or thirteen years old,

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Speaker 1: I loved all the spaceships and the stuff. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: thirty and thirty five or so and looking at it

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Speaker 1: again and realizing, oh, there was a lot more going

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Speaker 1: on here than I realized. It was all the the

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Speaker 1: the echoes of the French resistance, of the echoes of Nazism,

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Speaker 1: the echoes of the Holocaust and all of that um.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's great when you can when you can

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Speaker 1: take really deep, meaningful stuff like that and put it

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Speaker 1: into a commercial shell that people will tune in to

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Speaker 1: sea and then you can hopefully maybe make something a

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Speaker 1: little thought provoking. Listen to more Coast to Coast a

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Speaker 1: M every week night at one a m Eastern and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast a m dot com for

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Speaker 1: more