Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.
Speaker 2: I am the host of the brandan Mbision podcast Mandy
Speaker 2: Windrif Santos, and I haven't done this since gosh. When
Speaker 2: I first started to do coaching, I offered free sessions
Speaker 2: on my ig Ooh, my microphone is all the way
Speaker 2: over here.
Speaker 1: Hello? Is that better? I got excited, gosh. I started
Speaker 1: doing free sessions back in twenty twenty one. Ray, were
Speaker 1: you one of those free sessions? I was stop, wow,
Speaker 1: look at us now and look at her just showing
Speaker 1: up for my freebies every time because we are back
Speaker 1: at the time though I listen, I did. I had
Speaker 1: two hundred people sign up to the Google form on
Speaker 1: ig for free sessions. I think one hundred of them
Speaker 1: actually ended up booking. And then for the next six
Speaker 1: months I was doing those free sessions and I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that, you know, I'm so glad that I did that,
Speaker 1: and it was it was my way of figuring out,
Speaker 1: like do I even like this? Am I even good
Speaker 1: at this? And it kicked off my whole business. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that happens when you're like listen
Speaker 1: up kids and Ray, you know, because you got a
Speaker 1: baby girl. One of the things that happens when you
Speaker 1: go and have a baby or two and then you
Speaker 1: have a business and you're trying to work on a
Speaker 1: book and run a coaching community, is that you don't
Speaker 1: have as much time to do one on one sessions anymore.
Speaker 1: One It's not like and every business, like literally every
Speaker 1: business coach will tell me, don't do free sessions. What
Speaker 1: are you doing? You shouldn't even be trying to do
Speaker 1: one on ones anymore. It should all be scalable, scale, scale, scale,
Speaker 1: And I'm all for the scaling, but I'm also all
Speaker 1: for staying in tune with what y'all are going through
Speaker 1: in your work lives. Ray, I feel like you have
Speaker 1: evolved so much since you first joined the Mandy money
Speaker 1: Makers in twenty twenty one, twenty two, and I'm so
Speaker 1: proud of you, and it just is I'm glad that
Speaker 1: you were. You were so quick on the sign up
Speaker 1: button for this free session.
Speaker 3: Me too. I needed your advice because you're amazing and
Speaker 3: I am acquin something. So I'm like I'm taking advantage
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 1: Sign yes, all right, Okay, So I mean just to
Speaker 1: catch everybody up on Ray from what I'll tell you
Speaker 1: what I what I know, which is that when you
Speaker 1: joined you were working for a big retailer and you
Speaker 1: were you weren't a recruiter, but you were like tangential
Speaker 1: to the recruiting. You worked in like a software side, okay,
Speaker 1: and then you gotcha and then you joined the Makers
Speaker 1: and you wanted to You wanted to actually get into
Speaker 1: a recruiting level up, level up, which you did, and
Speaker 1: then that job was that the job where you got
Speaker 1: the big First of all, you got into a recruiting
Speaker 1: opportunity and then you got the big rays at that time.
Speaker 3: So actually, let's back up a bit, right. So I
Speaker 3: did the free coaching session, and you told me that
Speaker 3: I wanted to do too many things at once, and.
Speaker 1: Then I needed to it sounds like me.
Speaker 3: Because I wanted to do a podcast, I wanted to
Speaker 3: get a promotion, make more money, start a business, like
Speaker 3: all the things you tell me. I needed to focus.
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, okay, well I'm focusing on earning
Speaker 3: more money because if I can earn more money, then
Speaker 3: I can do more things, right. And so I did
Speaker 3: your free session and then you offered your first cohort
Speaker 3: of coaching. I did that and invested in myself to
Speaker 3: do that, and that put me in a room around
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of boss babes, wonderful women working at
Speaker 3: the Googles, the Microsoft's, all the things. And when one
Speaker 3: of the sessions was like someone said, oh yeah, my
Speaker 3: salary requirements is two seventy five a year, I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: my aim is way too low, way too low. I
Speaker 3: was barely making forty K that year. I think I
Speaker 3: made it fifty K with two jobs. So that told
Speaker 3: you everything you needed to know.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, you had two jobs.
Speaker 3: I had bombed an interview. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1: Girl? Now we're doing let's not don't pop quizzes, but
Speaker 1: I had.
Speaker 3: I had a recruiting interview with him.
Speaker 1: There was never a dull moment, That's what I remember.
Speaker 1: There was never a.
Speaker 3: Horrible I like bombed it, and I was so disappointed.
Speaker 3: Was oh my gosh, like you know, but I kept going.
Speaker 3: And then I landed a role that paid double salary.
Speaker 3: Now you can pick up.
Speaker 1: And that was a couple of years ago. And then
Speaker 1: was there a layoff somewhere in there?
Speaker 3: Ninety days into that new role.
Speaker 1: I got laid off, Yes, and then you fired me
Speaker 1: as your coach.
Speaker 4: No, you did it now came back to my support community,
Speaker 4: and I was like, I don't know what to do,
Speaker 4: and you guys are like, take a minute, take a day,
Speaker 4: take a couple.
Speaker 3: It took like two days, and then I got on
Speaker 3: LinkedIn and started all over.
Speaker 1: With the title now of recruiter or whatever the title was, which, yeah,
Speaker 1: was what got you? You know, you were able to
Speaker 1: then get another role because you already had that title
Speaker 1: even though it was only ninety days, right, And then
Speaker 1: what happened, So it's a good story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I got laid off after ninety days
Speaker 3: with that role. That was the first time in my
Speaker 3: life I ever like could work one job and that
Speaker 3: cover all my expenses, like all the things, right, and
Speaker 3: I like just had made it and I had to
Speaker 3: start back over. So I started back over, started interviewing
Speaker 3: all the things. I had two opportunities. So my boss
Speaker 3: at that previous company had also that had gotten laid
Speaker 3: off two weeks after me. She circled the block because
Speaker 3: I was such a great employee and wanted to bring
Speaker 3: me back on to her new company that she had
Speaker 3: just got a promotion or a role in as the
Speaker 3: director of talent acquisition. And so I had that option
Speaker 3: on the table, but it would have been starting off
Speaker 3: as a contractor. My negotiation power was limited because she
Speaker 3: knew what I made previously, so she only was offering
Speaker 3: two K more. And then it kind of was like
Speaker 3: a little bit of bad juju because the person that
Speaker 3: she was replacing in the role didn't know they were
Speaker 3: getting fired.
Speaker 1: So even though it was a light lift, Oh so
Speaker 1: you would have come in to someone who was getting fired.
Speaker 3: Replacing the head who was getting fired, and they didn't
Speaker 3: know yet. So when she brought me on, like what's
Speaker 3: going to bring me on? I only had an interview once,
Speaker 3: but it would have been contracted because she needs to
Speaker 3: get in, get her feet wet, and then transfer me
Speaker 3: to PERM and I just didn't know what that would
Speaker 3: look like and my negotiation power was limited. So then
Speaker 3: I had this other opportunity on the table, and it
Speaker 3: was working for a nonprofit doing amazing work like great mission,
Speaker 3: and I was able to negotiate a twelve K bomb.
Speaker 1: From what you were making at the other firm that
Speaker 1: laid you off. Yes, amazing chef's cass. Okay, but bring
Speaker 1: up now we're here today and now you are angling
Speaker 1: for promotion.
Speaker 3: Yes, So fast forward two and a half years, I
Speaker 3: am now up. Well, the caveat to this whole story
Speaker 3: is that I am currently interviewing and have gone through
Speaker 3: the final rounds of interviews for this director level role
Speaker 3: I'm currently I started out as a manager. So in
Speaker 3: the midst of interviewing for this director level role, I
Speaker 3: get notified that I got a promotion to be senior
Speaker 3: manager and I'm like, so we're just getting promotions before
Speaker 3: the second promotion to promotions and what could ask So
Speaker 3: this would.
Speaker 1: Have been two steps up because at your firm, it's
Speaker 1: like you're what a manager now and then senior and
Speaker 1: then director.
Speaker 3: No, so it's like they make it's like levels of creativity.
Speaker 1: So listen, a lot of places are like that. It
Speaker 1: can be good for So.
Speaker 3: Depending on what you're on one, yeah, it could be manager,
Speaker 3: senior manager, associate director, director, senior director. And this is
Speaker 3: a director role. Not every team has a senior manager
Speaker 3: level or an associated director level. So I'm going from
Speaker 3: what I thought was a manager to a director, but
Speaker 3: now it's senior manager to director.
Speaker 1: Okay, got it. And so that promotion went through when
Speaker 1: so I.
Speaker 3: Just went through the final rounds of interviews, So we
Speaker 3: are putting in manifesting that I get the promotion and
Speaker 3: just preparing for that negotiation conversation.
Speaker 1: Oh, to clarify, I meant the promotion that you found
Speaker 1: out about while you were interviewing.
Speaker 3: Oh, that one went into effect at the end of January.
Speaker 1: Okay, and you've already been in the interview, so you've
Speaker 1: been interviewing to be on the same team. But take
Speaker 1: that director role.
Speaker 3: Yes, And news is that I've already stepped up in
Speaker 3: that position because we were short staff so there was
Speaker 3: an expectation to do that role. Prior to me going out,
Speaker 3: I had a baby going out on leave, like, hey,
Speaker 3: we need to step up here. Okay, I'll step up.
Speaker 3: Then I came back from leave and continued in that
Speaker 3: same vein leading partnerships because we were still short staffed,
Speaker 3: and then we were able to, like a couple months
Speaker 3: after that, bring on team members, help train them, transition them,
Speaker 3: and then go back to my normal role.
Speaker 1: Okay, alrighty, So heading into this internal role, you're hoping
Speaker 1: you'll get an offer, and your question is how do
Speaker 1: I negotiate more?
Speaker 3: Right, Because I've done a little bit of research as
Speaker 3: it pertains to like previous employees or like people who
Speaker 3: may have been in the role on the team and
Speaker 3: know like what the salary was.
Speaker 1: Around reading between the lines. That means that you asked
Speaker 1: other people right what they were earning. I love that.
Speaker 1: And no, that's just perfect. And Hi to everybody who's
Speaker 1: tuning in online. I see Annas in the chat right now.
Speaker 1: Hi Anna, if you're here, tune in, say hello, Hi.
Speaker 1: Go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I asked, and I have like a general
Speaker 3: understanding of what the role would start at, but no
Speaker 3: great information.
Speaker 1: And how far apart is that from what you're earning now?
Speaker 3: It's like a fifteen K or more bomb.
Speaker 1: It's not terrible, that's not that much. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like a fifty K bump, you know.
Speaker 1: I know it's quick, quick math, but do you know
Speaker 1: what the percentages? Like what percentage raise that might be.
Speaker 3: I can do the math really quick.
Speaker 1: If it's less than fifteen percent, you can just say
Speaker 1: that you gotta put all your business out there. But
Speaker 1: if it's less than fifteen, and certainly it's less than ten,
Speaker 1: there's usually like that much wiggle room in a compensation budget.
Speaker 3: Okay, so it'll be about starting around fifteen percent bump
Speaker 3: and more okay where I land in that range, but
Speaker 3: that's assuming that's the starting range.
Speaker 1: Second question, when you were promoted in January, did you
Speaker 1: get a bump then.
Speaker 3: Yes, six percent from where I was previously? Well, because
Speaker 3: there was a two and a half percent annual and
Speaker 3: then six percent on top of that, so technically eight and.
Speaker 1: A half okay, and then oktcha.
Speaker 3: Now this will be an additional fifteen.
Speaker 1: If you get what you want right.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's like should I even see? This
Speaker 3: is where the anxiety and all the things come in, because.
Speaker 1: It's like, no ask the question. Can I even ask.
Speaker 3: That audacious to like want another fifteen percent? Should I
Speaker 3: take the ten percent? If they've lowered the range? Like
Speaker 3: where do I come in at that? So I'm trying
Speaker 3: to like that's why I need you for it? It like
Speaker 3: help me with this confidence.
Speaker 1: And then well you're in. It's interesting because so yesterday's
Speaker 1: a lunch and level up with Lakeisha and Lakeisha is
Speaker 1: also in a situation where she is at her current firm.
Speaker 1: She uh has taken on a new role and they
Speaker 1: have said this is a lateral move, so no raise
Speaker 1: for you here's your three percent annual inflation whatever. And
Speaker 1: she's a little bit you know, stuck at that, and
Speaker 1: she knows that she should be making more. And in
Speaker 1: your situation, it's it's you have a bit more going
Speaker 1: for you, which is that you were recently promoted. They
Speaker 1: love you. You've been doing the job already, right, they
Speaker 1: really like you. You've been there for two and a
Speaker 1: half years, right, something like that. And I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: nothing is going to give you as much leverage as
Speaker 1: a competing offer that you can put in front of them,
Speaker 1: like cold hard fact. I have been offered, you know,
Speaker 1: let's say it's one twenty, that's what you're aiming for.
Speaker 1: I've been offered one twenty at this firm. I would
Speaker 1: love to stay, but can you match that comp Can
Speaker 1: you match me at the compensation? And then it's an
Speaker 1: easy decision. Happy to stay. Heyba fam, we got to
Speaker 1: take a quick break, pay some bills and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back. However, your market research is still completely I mean,
Speaker 1: and by market research, you know, getting that information from
Speaker 1: former colleagues and kind of looking at the job market
Speaker 1: other comparable titles, and have you done any work to
Speaker 1: kind of see what other ranges are online? Or has
Speaker 1: this job even posted online? And do they have a
Speaker 1: rage range listed with the job description?
Speaker 3: They did not have a range list, but they did
Speaker 3: post externally.
Speaker 1: Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So failing that, I would say you.
Speaker 3: Can about nonprofit sector as well, because that's always the
Speaker 3: caveat is always like or the understanding is that you're
Speaker 3: not ever going to get industry standard Rates's.
Speaker 1: See, they benefit from that, you know. How do you
Speaker 1: know how I feel about nonprofits? I feel like I've
Speaker 1: said it a lot, but nonprofits to me are the
Speaker 1: fact that it's a nonprofit. I don't nego. I don't
Speaker 1: recommend anyone negotiates any differently for a nonprofit versus a
Speaker 1: for profit, because if you look at the nuts and
Speaker 1: bolts of it, they are the same. Like the tax
Speaker 1: structure is different, right, there's tax benefits as a non well, shit,
Speaker 1: there's there's tax benefits for for profits too. They're very similar, right,
Speaker 1: talk about how much taxes is Amazon paid Jeff Bezos
Speaker 1: zero datas, Let's just go buy more Amazon trucks and
Speaker 1: you know that'll decrease our taxable income. I digress. Nonprofits
Speaker 1: do get away in the same way that I think
Speaker 1: government jobs, teachers, even like healthcare jobs to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: get away with this sense of like moral compensation, like
Speaker 1: you're doing good work here, we're a nonprofit so and
Speaker 1: they have this aura and then this myth kind of
Speaker 1: proliferates about there's not that much budget and oh, da
Speaker 1: da da, you know, like we can't afford to pay
Speaker 1: certain things. Come work for us and feel good about yourself.
Speaker 1: But the thing is they can be just as toxic
Speaker 1: as regular jobs. They can be disorganized, they can be capitalistic.
Speaker 1: They got to raise money, right, So I just not
Speaker 1: to harp on that too much, but I just want
Speaker 1: to change mindset around what nonprofits can afford. And at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, they're like any other company,
Speaker 1: and if they really want to keep talent, they'll keep talent.
Speaker 1: And even if they have to post their you know,
Speaker 1: salaries to what's that document called that nonprofits have to file.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know what the name of it.
Speaker 1: Some tax form. Yeah, they may have like they may
Speaker 1: need to post that and whatnot. But I'm just saying
Speaker 1: I want you to walk in there not thinking about
Speaker 1: it's a nonprofit, they probably can't afford this, and just
Speaker 1: go in based on what you're worth, you know, so
Speaker 1: based on what you've learned so far. And oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I was going to say, any data research
Speaker 1: into comparable roles, like in the same industry, have you
Speaker 1: looked on glass or other job listings. You're doing it
Speaker 1: right now, that's fine, let's do it.
Speaker 3: The hard car two is that even though it would
Speaker 3: be a director position, it's still an individual contributor.
Speaker 1: Okay. So some people would say that's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, many people the average salary would be that fifteen percent.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you feel like you're in the right yeah,
Speaker 1: the right marketplace. And so far in your interviews, has
Speaker 1: compensation come up? No, so you're expecting what like when
Speaker 1: you get the offer, we'll just manifest that that then
Speaker 1: you'll have a conversation about comp right, okay. And at
Speaker 1: that point, and this is your boss, I you're interviewing
Speaker 1: with one of.
Speaker 3: Them, one of I reviewed. I did phone screen with
Speaker 3: the TA of the company. Then I did the interview
Speaker 3: with my boss, who I work with closely, and then
Speaker 3: I did a panel interview with some peers, some who
Speaker 3: I may have worked with and some who I may
Speaker 3: have not. And then the last round was with my
Speaker 3: boss's boss, who equally knows me.
Speaker 1: Okay, you went through the ringer, m hm, and how
Speaker 1: much time? Amazing. You know, I'm not really opposed to
Speaker 1: asking about compensation during the interview process, especially if you're
Speaker 1: an external candidate. I don't I don't like the feeling
Speaker 1: of waiting until the final offer to find out what compensation.
Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is, I think that they
Speaker 1: will go low in terms of the pay raise you
Speaker 1: just got one. They'll use that as justification. Now I
Speaker 1: need you to go in with your counter argument, which is,
Speaker 1: this is a new role. I've already been doing it
Speaker 1: for free for how many months now.
Speaker 3: At least like five six?
Speaker 1: Oh lord, so for half a year I have been
Speaker 1: doing the work of a director. I appreciate the title change,
Speaker 1: and that's wonderful, But to fully step into this role
Speaker 1: and feel confident that I'm being paid my market value
Speaker 1: and that I am you know, that I'm being valued
Speaker 1: equitable to what other companies or other organizations pay at
Speaker 1: this level. I was expecting, or I am expecting, you know,
Speaker 1: a fair market rate, which based on my research is
Speaker 1: one fifteen to one twenty or whatever you want to say.
Speaker 1: And if they you know at that point you want
Speaker 1: to role play a little bit like you want to
Speaker 1: for ten, who do you want to be? Do you
Speaker 1: want to be you? Or do you want to be
Speaker 1: the I don't know employer? You want to be the employer? Okay?
Speaker 2: Me?
Speaker 1: All right, I'm adorable. My name is Ray. Everyone loves me. Hi,
Speaker 1: just getting in your zone, getting in the vibe. All right?
Speaker 1: So how would it be? Would it be a phone call?
Speaker 1: Zoom like this? Yes, you in person are remote.
Speaker 3: Well away from home. But I think, honestly, I think
Speaker 3: they're gonna email me and maybe be presented in a call.
Speaker 3: But I think they'll try to like email first, you.
Speaker 1: Know, let's really okay, I'm mad at that. Then okay,
Speaker 1: so you get the email. So let's pretend Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: Ray and I've just gotten this email and it's like, Ray, congratulations.
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 3: It's probably gonna come from talent acquisition.
Speaker 1: Right, and it's going to say, congratulations, we are happy
Speaker 1: to inform me that you have been selected. I don't
Speaker 1: know the languages you've gotten the job se see offer
Speaker 1: details below. And then it will say let's say they
Speaker 1: let's say it's no increase. Let's say they're like, we
Speaker 1: just gave you a raise, here's your same salary. If
Speaker 1: that's the case, I'm pissed. I'm right, and I'm pissed
Speaker 1: because like, not y'all trying to get a steep, steep discount.
Speaker 1: The thing is as if they're looking at external candidates,
Speaker 1: which they likely are, right they've posted it externally. If
Speaker 1: they're looking at external candidates, it's quite possible that those
Speaker 1: external candidates are going to be more expensive than you
Speaker 1: are because they are coming from other companies. And at
Speaker 1: that point, your company knows what you're making. Your company
Speaker 1: doesn't know what they're making. And I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: they would be going for you because you are the
Speaker 1: more affordable option. I'm sure they are choosing you because
Speaker 1: or sorry, choosing me because I'm amazing. But that just
Speaker 1: tells you off jump that they are trying to skate
Speaker 1: by without paying the proper market rate. So if that's
Speaker 1: an email, I'm stewing, I'm stewing, and then I'm replying,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to ask for time timeframe, Oh for
Speaker 1: how long I'm going to stew ten minutes? Not long,
Speaker 1: because all you're going to do now is I was
Speaker 1: send an email back and say thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I am thrilled. How quickly can make it on a
Speaker 1: phone call to discuss the offer and where you can
Speaker 1: say that however you want to take, I prefer to
Speaker 1: do a compensation negotiation by phone. I think that you're
Speaker 1: able to I'm all about vibes, right, and when you
Speaker 1: come into a conversation with the right energy when you're
Speaker 1: coming to them. And this is where as women we
Speaker 1: have to like we do get penalized for being seen
Speaker 1: as power hungry, money hungry, you know, ambitious, opportunistic, and
Speaker 1: I believe in a phone call you're able to get
Speaker 1: your tone as and it shouldn't be this way, but
Speaker 1: this is a reality. I believe that we're able to
Speaker 1: be really intentional with our tone and how we are perceived.
Speaker 1: You can be the same ray that they know and
Speaker 1: that they you know, feel comfortable with, but you can
Speaker 1: still get to the point of what you want, which
Speaker 1: is I'm still ray. I'm still this And by the way,
Speaker 1: the offer to me is low compared to the market
Speaker 1: research I've done to better understand the value of this role.
Speaker 1: And I want to know, is it possible that you
Speaker 1: can meet me at the market range, which is one
Speaker 1: fifteen to one twenty. You've got them on the phone.
Speaker 1: At that point, we're not really role playing anymore. Should
Speaker 1: we should we go into role play?
Speaker 3: Yeah, But one caveat that you can use as a
Speaker 3: tool in your toolkit is that I'm pretty sure my
Speaker 3: peers in the same position would be making more so
Speaker 3: maybe that is not.
Speaker 1: In the same position. So your current colleagues and other
Speaker 1: like on.
Speaker 3: The same team director level colleagues. So I don't know
Speaker 3: how you would be able to pull that information in.
Speaker 1: But but oh gotcha, I wouldn't like I at this point.
Speaker 1: I not that there's anything wrong with you getting that
Speaker 1: information from current employees. There's nothing wrong with that, But I.
Speaker 3: Feel like denying if I got that.
Speaker 1: No, you're gonna say based on my based on my
Speaker 1: own research from trusted sources as well as you know,
Speaker 1: general market research, like and you can have some examples,
Speaker 1: like you can pull up that glass store as an example.
Speaker 1: You can pull up comparable job titles like literally job descriptions.
Speaker 1: You know, they have to publish salary ranges in other states,
Speaker 1: So New York, I know that you're you're in You're
Speaker 1: in the South, and they may write or no, you're
Speaker 1: back up in the Pennsylvania. That's right, Pennsylvania, so even
Speaker 1: better because New York is not that far so they
Speaker 1: can't pull the hole. That's New York. But you could
Speaker 1: get a couple of salaries and have that as your
Speaker 1: market research plus glass store and just have it in
Speaker 1: your back pocket in case they asked to see it,
Speaker 1: which I don't think. I don't know if they will
Speaker 1: or not, but anyway, you know that. And the reason
Speaker 1: I'm like being a bit cautious there is because it
Speaker 1: goes back to like the tone and the feeling you,
Speaker 1: at least in my experience, you get more flies with
Speaker 1: honey in a way, and you don't want to put
Speaker 1: them on like the defensive defensive and start making them
Speaker 1: feel paranoid about well, who she's spoken to? Was it
Speaker 1: so and so? Was it so and so? And also
Speaker 1: there may be not that I'm saying it's justifiable. There
Speaker 1: may be different circumstances to why those colleagues are earning
Speaker 1: a certain amount, And if you bring them up, then
Speaker 1: it's very easy for them to just like, you know,
Speaker 1: dismiss that with like a couple of excuses, Oh so
Speaker 1: and so it's been here longer. Oh so, and so
Speaker 1: you know, excuse me, it's a unique case. They came
Speaker 1: from a different company, they have this many years of experience,
Speaker 1: they have this certification, and then they start like, you know,
Speaker 1: like nitpicking, and next thing you know, you haven't really
Speaker 1: gotten anywhere. So I would keep it broad.
Speaker 3: So based on what I say, let's have the conversation.
Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break. Hey,
Speaker 1: some bills and we'll be right back. Welcome back, be
Speaker 1: a fan, Let's get back to the show. Okay, So
Speaker 1: this is the call that you get on the phone
Speaker 1: after the offer comes through email. Okay, Hey George, George Georgia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hi, Dogeri, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Damn this I was today years old when I knew
Speaker 1: you pronounced it dogeray.
Speaker 3: I think I told you on that first free session
Speaker 3: and then never came up a game.
Speaker 1: Well, it's always right to me. We're cool like that.
Speaker 1: It's right, okay, all right, Hey, it's so listen. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited. I can't believe it. I can't wait. I've
Speaker 1: been doing this job for six months. It just feels
Speaker 1: so right to me. I mean, what was the feedback
Speaker 1: from the team from the interview process.
Speaker 3: The team had nothing but great things to say about you.
Speaker 3: They said that, you know, you're a great contributor on
Speaker 3: the team already, you already have experience being successful within
Speaker 3: that rule and those responsibilities, and they're just super super
Speaker 3: excited to like, have you join within this new capacity.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, I again, I'm really excited. I've I'm
Speaker 1: so passionate about the work. I mean, I'm glad to
Speaker 1: hear that they have acknowledged and seen how hard I've
Speaker 1: been working for the past you know, five six months,
Speaker 1: and this just feels like such a great next up
Speaker 1: for me. So I, yeah, I would love to accept,
Speaker 1: but before I get there, I want to chat about
Speaker 1: the offer. So I saw the offer come through, and
Speaker 1: I and we're going to assume that it's we're keeping
Speaker 1: the compensations the same, Okay. So I have to admit
Speaker 1: I was a little bit surprised and taking it back
Speaker 1: by the compensation offer, you know, the for the for
Speaker 1: the level of work that I'd be doing in this
Speaker 1: role and the fact that I've been already been doing
Speaker 1: it for you know, five six months now, and honestly
Speaker 1: based on the market research that I've done for a
Speaker 1: director level position in our field at comparable organizations incomparable roles,
Speaker 1: this is far below the market rate for this position.
Speaker 1: And I, with all due respect, like, I am so
Speaker 1: excited for this role. I want to I want to
Speaker 1: take it on. I want to keep this momentum going.
Speaker 1: But I don't really feel settled. I don't really feel
Speaker 1: good about, you know, moving forward if I don't feel
Speaker 1: like I am being paid commensurate with my market rate.
Speaker 1: So is there anything you can do to get me
Speaker 1: closer to the market range, which based on my research
Speaker 1: is about one fifteen to one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: So that's a yes, thank you. Bye, I'm just kidding,
Speaker 1: don't do that. You can do that depends on your rapport.
Speaker 1: I like cracking a joke.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we can definitely take it back to the
Speaker 3: team and see, you know, what is possible based on
Speaker 3: the budget and so forth, and I can get back
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 1: I can, okay, yeah, I really appreciate response. You'll get
Speaker 1: back to you, and then they'll go, do do you
Speaker 1: think in that case? I was expecting you to almost
Speaker 1: push back and say, well, you know, given the fact
Speaker 1: that you were recently promoted, we thought that keeping you
Speaker 1: at this level was fair for now, and then we
Speaker 1: could look at we could look at potentially increasing that,
Speaker 1: getting you closer to that, you know, your goal, your
Speaker 1: target compensation goal, maybe in a year.
Speaker 3: So if they said that, what would you say.
Speaker 1: That's okay, Well, now I'm playing both roles, that's fine,
Speaker 1: I'm used to it, I would say, I, yeah, I
Speaker 1: completely understand, And honestly I was thrilled, and yeah, pleasantly
Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised. I want to say surprised. I was.
Speaker 1: I was really pleased, surprised.
Speaker 3: Surprise, yes, but really I.
Speaker 1: Was actually you know, I yeah, I was surprised and
Speaker 1: pleasantly so that I received that promotion in Jenny. But
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is that I have been
Speaker 1: doing the director level position responsibilities and duties for five
Speaker 1: months now, and so leaving aside the reason promotion, I
Speaker 1: think bringing me up to that director level title and
Speaker 1: compensation that has always been my long term goal. I
Speaker 1: feel like it is what I you know, am, That's
Speaker 1: how I should be valued. And I think it absolutely
Speaker 1: reflects the amount of goodwill that I've had, you know,
Speaker 1: showing up and putting my all into this role for
Speaker 1: the last five months, even though I was, you know,
Speaker 1: doing the work of an individual a couple of levels
Speaker 1: and certainly a higher compensation level than I am, And
Speaker 1: to wait a year, it just doesn't feel like that
Speaker 1: really is reflecting the value I've already brought and the
Speaker 1: value I'll continue to bring for the next year.
Speaker 3: Okay, well we'll take that back to the team and
Speaker 3: I'll get back.
Speaker 1: Okay, you look good. Did you something with your hair?
Speaker 1: This is different?
Speaker 4: High?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm high.
Speaker 1: Your teeth whitened? How are the kids? You want to
Speaker 1: put a picture of your baby up in the background?
Speaker 5: Just you know, Oh yeah, I'm prepared to, like, you know,
Speaker 5: reiterate value contributed in future value.
Speaker 3: That is clear. But I'm still, like, you know, just
Speaker 3: a little antsy about it.
Speaker 1: A good problem to have, That's a good problem to have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Like, who gets multiple promotions within one quarter? Like,
Speaker 3: you know, who's catching up? So is catching up?
Speaker 1: I think you've done so well for yourself, I really do.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of other, you know, other potential outcomes.
Speaker 1: So I mean, how do you feel about the responding
Speaker 1: to an email asking for a phone call? Do you
Speaker 1: think they'll do that?
Speaker 3: I'm hoping say better.
Speaker 1: I just think it's so much better on the phone.
Speaker 3: Especially when you have because usually offers are given on
Speaker 3: the phone. Now that I think about it, that you
Speaker 3: we call like hey, just letting you know that we
Speaker 3: would like to extend the offer. Yeah, here's now. What
Speaker 3: do you think as far as negotiations of other items
Speaker 3: within the benefits package? So?
Speaker 1: Oh, good call? What what else do you have going
Speaker 1: on there?
Speaker 3: What else they got PTO?
Speaker 1: Okay? What what PTO do you have?
Speaker 3: Like number of days like four weeks? Okay, So I
Speaker 3: don't know if that'll bump or not, but just you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's something to include if they like,
Speaker 3: don't come all the way with the salary? Should we
Speaker 3: talk one time bonuses like all that?
Speaker 1: So when you got your promotion, did your annual target bonus?
Speaker 1: Do you still to the percentage target bonus? Oh you
Speaker 1: don't Okay, no bonus at all? Okay.
Speaker 3: I know, like thinking about negotiations from the external side
Speaker 3: of things, you can like bring those items in. So
Speaker 3: I just didn't know from an internal stance, like what
Speaker 3: can you use?
Speaker 1: Well, you have you have a leg up here because
Speaker 1: you already know what packages look like right. I mean, also,
Speaker 1: you're in the recruiting space, do you have line of
Speaker 1: sight into other candidates offers at all? No? Okay, I
Speaker 1: mean not candidates for this role, but in general no.
Speaker 1: So so compensation package, I think you have to decide
Speaker 1: what's your end goal. I think for you it's the cash, right,
Speaker 1: Like you want the when you think of total compensation
Speaker 1: and you're thinking of one to fifteen one fifteen base
Speaker 1: is what you're thinking, right, m So I would make
Speaker 1: that clear. Now, they don't offer annual bonuses, so I
Speaker 1: don't know how they would make anything up with a bonus.
Speaker 1: They could do potentially a spot bonus. You have they
Speaker 1: done that before? Have you heard about other people getting it.
Speaker 5: For like performance evaluation type situations and like that.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought, Maybe that could be a potential.
Speaker 1: Oh that's good. So you don't have like a set
Speaker 1: percentage that you are on target to earn like in
Speaker 1: terms of a bonus. But they are known to do
Speaker 1: it if it's been a good they're a good performer,
Speaker 1: and there's money in the the bank for that. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they could make up any gap. Like so,
Speaker 1: let's say they're a hard line like, no, this is
Speaker 1: the salary approved for the role for this year, which
Speaker 1: does me doesn't make any sense because if they were
Speaker 1: trying to hire someone outside, they would have to have
Speaker 1: a budget big enough to meet that market rate. You know, so,
Speaker 1: but anyway, let's just say they're like, no, this is
Speaker 1: the final Then you could say, then you could yes,
Speaker 1: you could counter and ask for a one time bonus
Speaker 1: to close the gap, and then let's revisit it in
Speaker 1: you know, the next review cycle.
Speaker 3: And do you get that in writing, like the whole
Speaker 3: revisit review cycle piece, or do you just faces in writing.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if they could put that in writing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: They probably won't put it in the in the email
Speaker 1: or your employee contract, but you could get them to
Speaker 1: say it in an email. You could be like, well,
Speaker 1: does this all can? I just wanted to clarify I
Speaker 1: will be able to like, there's an understanding that you know,
Speaker 1: next review review cycle compensation will be a compensation increase
Speaker 1: a market rate increase rather a market rate increase will
Speaker 1: be on the table or up for discussion. Then you
Speaker 1: can have them say that in an email.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I guess we'll there go, So what happens.
Speaker 3: I'm expecting to hear something maybe in a week or so.
Speaker 1: I could use a good negotiation outcome. You've been good
Speaker 1: to me so far. You always have like a nice update.
Speaker 1: Even when you're down, you're up at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you know, down in a market like this,
Speaker 1: I just want other people to know that it's still
Speaker 1: possible to negotiate. And I think the challenge is, like
Speaker 1: you said, it's that nerves. It's do I do I
Speaker 1: have the audacity? Should I be asking for this? But
Speaker 1: hell yes? I mean you know, based on your own research,
Speaker 1: what you're earning now is not the market rate for
Speaker 1: the job you will be doing. And so what if
Speaker 1: you're not managing people? The level of expectation, the visibility
Speaker 1: within the company, the demand for your role like that
Speaker 1: should be what comes to the forefront, not how many
Speaker 1: people are you managing. Yeah, I'm good luck, Girly, thank you,
Speaker 1: and thank y'all for tuning in, and Ray, thank you
Speaker 1: for joining me. Good luck girl. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: Heyb a fam, What name is Zoo and my mama?
Speaker 3: Ha a update?
Speaker 1: That's right, Rio, Hey ba fam, I'm back with a
Speaker 1: quick update on this week's QA from Ray, I am
Speaker 1: so excited, y'all. I'm gonna let her fill y'all in
Speaker 1: on her job update, and I'm going to go back
Speaker 1: to enjoying my spring break quote unquote vacation with my
Speaker 1: children on a road trip to Atlanta. Bye him, Mandy.
Speaker 3: I am thrilled to share some life changing news. I
Speaker 3: just accepted the director's talent placement role and get this,
Speaker 3: it was a twenty five K bump in my salary,
Speaker 3: Like I cannot believe it. I'm ecstatic. I thank God
Speaker 3: for just bringing me here and just allowing all of
Speaker 3: the things that you've taught us through the Maker's Community,
Speaker 3: leveraging my own recruiter experience, and really just doing the thing,
Speaker 3: Like can you believe? Just three years ago, I felt
Speaker 3: like I was stuck on my hamster wheel, barely making
Speaker 3: fifty K, working two jobs, feeling overworked, underpaid, overwhelmed. And
Speaker 3: then you know, you just fast forward joining the Maker's Community,
Speaker 3: and now in three years, I have tripled my income,
Speaker 3: purchased my first home, and just well on my way
Speaker 3: to achieving financial freedom and multi generational wealth. And I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you, Mandy and
Speaker 3: the Maker's community. So just thank you so much for
Speaker 3: the support and the encouragement and the space to show
Speaker 3: up and be heard and seen, regardless of what was
Speaker 3: going on in my life at that time. So just
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you, thank you. And this is just
Speaker 3: the beginning. I know more is coming and I just
Speaker 3: can't wait to just share all of the great news.
Speaker 1: Have a wonderful day, okayva fan, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for listening to this week's show. I want to shout
Speaker 1: out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our
Speaker 1: fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to
Speaker 1: shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for
Speaker 1: helping me put the show together. It is not a
Speaker 1: one person project, as much as I have tried to
Speaker 1: make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all,
Speaker 1: and thank Goodness been able to put this team around
Speaker 1: me to support me on this journey. And to y'all,
Speaker 1: ba fam, I love you so so so so much.
Speaker 1: Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to
Speaker 1: the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes.
Speaker 1: Our tenth year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,
Speaker 1: talk to you soon via bye.