WEBVTT - No More Playing Small [BA QA] 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.159 Hey, everybody. 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.560 I am the host of the brandan Mbision podcast Mandy 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:13.080 Windrif Santos, and I haven't done this since gosh. When 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.200 I first started to do coaching, I offered free sessions 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.920 on my ig Ooh, my microphone is all the way 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:19.320 over here. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:26.800 Hello? Is that better? I got excited, gosh. I started 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.200 doing free sessions back in twenty twenty one. Ray, were 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.880 you one of those free sessions? I was stop, wow, 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.040 look at us now and look at her just showing 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.640 up for my freebies every time because we are back 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.639 at the time though I listen, I did. I had 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.920 two hundred people sign up to the Google form on 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.080 ig for free sessions. I think one hundred of them 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.520 actually ended up booking. And then for the next six 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.560 months I was doing those free sessions and I'm so 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.560 glad that, you know, I'm so glad that I did that, 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.120 and it was it was my way of figuring out, 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.240 like do I even like this? Am I even good 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.800 at this? And it kicked off my whole business. And 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.440 one of the things that happens when you're like listen 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.640 up kids and Ray, you know, because you got a 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:17.800 baby girl. One of the things that happens when you 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:19.880 go and have a baby or two and then you 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:21.520 have a business and you're trying to work on a 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.080 book and run a coaching community, is that you don't 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.480 have as much time to do one on one sessions anymore. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.880 One It's not like and every business, like literally every 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.520 business coach will tell me, don't do free sessions. What 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:37.240 are you doing? You shouldn't even be trying to do 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.560 one on ones anymore. It should all be scalable, scale, scale, scale, 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.520 And I'm all for the scaling, but I'm also all 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.360 for staying in tune with what y'all are going through 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.080 in your work lives. Ray, I feel like you have 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.800 evolved so much since you first joined the Mandy money 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:58.320 Makers in twenty twenty one, twenty two, and I'm so 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.120 proud of you, and it just is I'm glad that 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.600 you were. You were so quick on the sign up 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.240 button for this free session. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.400 Me too. I needed your advice because you're amazing and 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.720 I am acquin something. So I'm like I'm taking advantage 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:14.400 right now. 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.760 Sign yes, all right, Okay, So I mean just to 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.280 catch everybody up on Ray from what I'll tell you 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.680 what I what I know, which is that when you 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.520 joined you were working for a big retailer and you 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.880 were you weren't a recruiter, but you were like tangential 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.600 to the recruiting. You worked in like a software side, okay, 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:39.160 and then you gotcha and then you joined the Makers 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.560 and you wanted to You wanted to actually get into 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:47.239 a recruiting level up, level up, which you did, and 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.000 then that job was that the job where you got 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.480 the big First of all, you got into a recruiting 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.280 opportunity and then you got the big rays at that time. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.360 So actually, let's back up a bit, right. So I 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.480 did the free coaching session, and you told me that 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.799 I wanted to do too many things at once, and. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.919 Then I needed to it sounds like me. 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.600 Because I wanted to do a podcast, I wanted to 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.560 get a promotion, make more money, start a business, like 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.760 all the things you tell me. I needed to focus. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.519 And then I'm like, okay, well I'm focusing on earning 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.639 more money because if I can earn more money, then 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.160 I can do more things, right. And so I did 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.519 your free session and then you offered your first cohort 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.960 of coaching. I did that and invested in myself to 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.480 do that, and that put me in a room around 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.480 a whole bunch of boss babes, wonderful women working at 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.880 the Googles, the Microsoft's, all the things. And when one 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.080 of the sessions was like someone said, oh yeah, my 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:48.840 salary requirements is two seventy five a year, I was like, oh, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.360 my aim is way too low, way too low. I 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.240 was barely making forty K that year. I think I 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.560 made it fifty K with two jobs. So that told 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:57.840 you everything you needed to know. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.080 And so, yeah, you had two jobs. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.360 I had bombed an interview. Do you remember that. 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.280 Girl? Now we're doing let's not don't pop quizzes, but 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:10.000 I had. 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.560 I had a recruiting interview with him. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.920 There was never a dull moment, That's what I remember. 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:15.680 There was never a. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.840 Horrible I like bombed it, and I was so disappointed. 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.520 Was oh my gosh, like you know, but I kept going. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.000 And then I landed a role that paid double salary. 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:26.840 Now you can pick up. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:30.359 And that was a couple of years ago. And then 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:32.080 was there a layoff somewhere in there? 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.120 Ninety days into that new role. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.279 I got laid off, Yes, and then you fired me 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:38.839 as your coach. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.800 No, you did it now came back to my support community, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.279 and I was like, I don't know what to do, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.160 and you guys are like, take a minute, take a day, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:49.039 take a couple. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:51.560 It took like two days, and then I got on 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.520 LinkedIn and started all over. 0:04:53.520 --> 0:05:00.760 With the title now of recruiter or whatever the title was, which, yeah, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.880 was what got you? You know, you were able to 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.360 then get another role because you already had that title 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:10.360 even though it was only ninety days, right, And then 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.040 what happened, So it's a good story. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:17.599 Yeah, And so I got laid off after ninety days 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:18.880 with that role. That was the first time in my 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.640 life I ever like could work one job and that 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.480 cover all my expenses, like all the things, right, and 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.800 I like just had made it and I had to 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.000 start back over. So I started back over, started interviewing 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.520 all the things. I had two opportunities. So my boss 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.640 at that previous company had also that had gotten laid 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.920 off two weeks after me. She circled the block because 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.240 I was such a great employee and wanted to bring 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.000 me back on to her new company that she had 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.560 just got a promotion or a role in as the 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.559 director of talent acquisition. And so I had that option 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.760 on the table, but it would have been starting off 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.400 as a contractor. My negotiation power was limited because she 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.919 knew what I made previously, so she only was offering 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.359 two K more. And then it kind of was like 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.760 a little bit of bad juju because the person that 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.040 she was replacing in the role didn't know they were 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:13.839 getting fired. 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.400 So even though it was a light lift, Oh so 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.120 you would have come in to someone who was getting fired. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.080 Replacing the head who was getting fired, and they didn't 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.719 know yet. So when she brought me on, like what's 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.880 going to bring me on? I only had an interview once, 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.280 but it would have been contracted because she needs to 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.159 get in, get her feet wet, and then transfer me 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:37.919 to PERM and I just didn't know what that would 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:42.200 look like and my negotiation power was limited. So then 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.279 I had this other opportunity on the table, and it 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.400 was working for a nonprofit doing amazing work like great mission, 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.120 and I was able to negotiate a twelve K bomb. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.360 From what you were making at the other firm that 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.479 laid you off. Yes, amazing chef's cass. Okay, but bring 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.359 up now we're here today and now you are angling 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:02.920 for promotion. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:08.159 Yes, So fast forward two and a half years, I 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.600 am now up. Well, the caveat to this whole story 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.440 is that I am currently interviewing and have gone through 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.800 the final rounds of interviews for this director level role 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.400 I'm currently I started out as a manager. So in 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.520 the midst of interviewing for this director level role, I 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:33.120 get notified that I got a promotion to be senior 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.080 manager and I'm like, so we're just getting promotions before 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.360 the second promotion to promotions and what could ask So 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:42.040 this would. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.120 Have been two steps up because at your firm, it's 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.960 like you're what a manager now and then senior and 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:47.640 then director. 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:53.800 No, so it's like they make it's like levels of creativity. 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.760 So listen, a lot of places are like that. It 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.680 can be good for So. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.680 Depending on what you're on one, yeah, it could be manager, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:07.760 senior manager, associate director, director, senior director. And this is 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:12.120 a director role. Not every team has a senior manager 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.360 level or an associated director level. So I'm going from 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.960 what I thought was a manager to a director, but 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.240 now it's senior manager to director. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.080 Okay, got it. And so that promotion went through when 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:28.560 so I. 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.680 Just went through the final rounds of interviews, So we 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.480 are putting in manifesting that I get the promotion and 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.280 just preparing for that negotiation conversation. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.360 Oh, to clarify, I meant the promotion that you found 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:42.720 out about while you were interviewing. 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.640 Oh, that one went into effect at the end of January. 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.679 Okay, and you've already been in the interview, so you've 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.640 been interviewing to be on the same team. But take 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:52.480 that director role. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.880 Yes, And news is that I've already stepped up in 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:01.400 that position because we were short staff so there was 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.880 an expectation to do that role. Prior to me going out, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.160 I had a baby going out on leave, like, hey, 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.680 we need to step up here. Okay, I'll step up. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.400 Then I came back from leave and continued in that 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.920 same vein leading partnerships because we were still short staffed, 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.200 and then we were able to, like a couple months 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.960 after that, bring on team members, help train them, transition them, 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.559 and then go back to my normal role. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:39.920 Okay, alrighty, So heading into this internal role, you're hoping 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.760 you'll get an offer, and your question is how do 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:45.880 I negotiate more? 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.400 Right, Because I've done a little bit of research as 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.480 it pertains to like previous employees or like people who 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.560 may have been in the role on the team and 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.160 know like what the salary was. 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.960 Around reading between the lines. That means that you asked 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.480 other people right what they were earning. I love that. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.360 And no, that's just perfect. And Hi to everybody who's 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.720 tuning in online. I see Annas in the chat right now. 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:14.400 Hi Anna, if you're here, tune in, say hello, Hi. 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:15.040 Go ahead. 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.920 Yeah, so I asked, and I have like a general 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.680 understanding of what the role would start at, but no 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:25.280 great information. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.079 And how far apart is that from what you're earning now? 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.080 It's like a fifteen K or more bomb. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.560 It's not terrible, that's not that much. I mean, it's 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.640 you know, it's not like a fifty K bump, you know. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.600 I know it's quick, quick math, but do you know 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.439 what the percentages? Like what percentage raise that might be. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:46.880 I can do the math really quick. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.840 If it's less than fifteen percent, you can just say 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.240 that you gotta put all your business out there. But 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.160 if it's less than fifteen, and certainly it's less than ten, 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.520 there's usually like that much wiggle room in a compensation budget. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:05.880 Okay, so it'll be about starting around fifteen percent bump 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.520 and more okay where I land in that range, but 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:12.960 that's assuming that's the starting range. 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.319 Second question, when you were promoted in January, did you 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:17.160 get a bump then. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.040 Yes, six percent from where I was previously? Well, because 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:25.679 there was a two and a half percent annual and 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.120 then six percent on top of that, so technically eight and. 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:33.240 A half okay, and then oktcha. 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.760 Now this will be an additional fifteen. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:38.880 If you get what you want right. 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.600 Well, I mean it's like should I even see? This 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.439 is where the anxiety and all the things come in, because. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.480 It's like, no ask the question. Can I even ask. 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.800 That audacious to like want another fifteen percent? Should I 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.679 take the ten percent? If they've lowered the range? Like 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.840 where do I come in at that? So I'm trying 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.560 to like that's why I need you for it? It like 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.520 help me with this confidence. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.240 And then well you're in. It's interesting because so yesterday's 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.840 a lunch and level up with Lakeisha and Lakeisha is 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.079 also in a situation where she is at her current firm. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.319 She uh has taken on a new role and they 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.360 have said this is a lateral move, so no raise 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.000 for you here's your three percent annual inflation whatever. And 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:26.839 she's a little bit you know, stuck at that, and 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.200 she knows that she should be making more. And in 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.800 your situation, it's it's you have a bit more going 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.120 for you, which is that you were recently promoted. They 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.760 love you. You've been doing the job already, right, they 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:40.439 really like you. You've been there for two and a 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:45.959 half years, right, something like that. And I mean, listen, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.920 nothing is going to give you as much leverage as 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.680 a competing offer that you can put in front of them, 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.200 like cold hard fact. I have been offered, you know, 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.480 let's say it's one twenty, that's what you're aiming for. 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.280 I've been offered one twenty at this firm. I would 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.600 love to stay, but can you match that comp Can 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.520 you match me at the compensation? And then it's an 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:09.599 easy decision. Happy to stay. Heyba fam, we got to 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.120 take a quick break, pay some bills and we'll be 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:18.760 right back. However, your market research is still completely I mean, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.480 and by market research, you know, getting that information from 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.440 former colleagues and kind of looking at the job market 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.560 other comparable titles, and have you done any work to 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.800 kind of see what other ranges are online? Or has 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.079 this job even posted online? And do they have a 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.760 rage range listed with the job description? 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.440 They did not have a range list, but they did 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:40.400 post externally. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.120 Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So failing that, I would say you. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:49.480 Can about nonprofit sector as well, because that's always the 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.559 caveat is always like or the understanding is that you're 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:57.520 not ever going to get industry standard Rates's. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.599 See, they benefit from that, you know. How do you 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.400 know how I feel about nonprofits? I feel like I've 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:05.080 said it a lot, but nonprofits to me are the 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.880 fact that it's a nonprofit. I don't nego. I don't 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.880 recommend anyone negotiates any differently for a nonprofit versus a 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.640 for profit, because if you look at the nuts and 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.880 bolts of it, they are the same. Like the tax 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.120 structure is different, right, there's tax benefits as a non well, shit, 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.520 there's there's tax benefits for for profits too. They're very similar, right, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.760 talk about how much taxes is Amazon paid Jeff Bezos 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.440 zero datas, Let's just go buy more Amazon trucks and 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.440 you know that'll decrease our taxable income. I digress. Nonprofits 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.120 do get away in the same way that I think 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:42.080 government jobs, teachers, even like healthcare jobs to a certain extent, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.600 get away with this sense of like moral compensation, like 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.880 you're doing good work here, we're a nonprofit so and 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.200 they have this aura and then this myth kind of 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.480 proliferates about there's not that much budget and oh, da 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.600 da da, you know, like we can't afford to pay 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.440 certain things. Come work for us and feel good about yourself. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.360 But the thing is they can be just as toxic 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.440 as regular jobs. They can be disorganized, they can be capitalistic. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.080 They got to raise money, right, So I just not 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:13.800 to harp on that too much, but I just want 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:19.520 to change mindset around what nonprofits can afford. And at 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.320 the end of the day, they're like any other company, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.680 and if they really want to keep talent, they'll keep talent. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.280 And even if they have to post their you know, 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.160 salaries to what's that document called that nonprofits have to file. 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.400 Oh, I don't know what the name of it. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.400 Some tax form. Yeah, they may have like they may 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.320 need to post that and whatnot. But I'm just saying 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.800 I want you to walk in there not thinking about 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.080 it's a nonprofit, they probably can't afford this, and just 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:50.360 go in based on what you're worth, you know, so 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.400 based on what you've learned so far. And oh yeah, 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.760 that's what I was going to say, any data research 0:15:54.840 --> 0:16:00.720 into comparable roles, like in the same industry, have you 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:07.800 looked on glass or other job listings. You're doing it 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:13.800 right now, that's fine, let's do it. 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:18.000 The hard car two is that even though it would 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.880 be a director position, it's still an individual contributor. 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.760 Okay. So some people would say that's great. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:37.360 Yeah, many people the average salary would be that fifteen percent. 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.560 Okay, So you feel like you're in the right yeah, 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:45.320 the right marketplace. And so far in your interviews, has 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:51.120 compensation come up? No, so you're expecting what like when 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.760 you get the offer, we'll just manifest that that then 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:58.040 you'll have a conversation about comp right, okay. And at 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.080 that point, and this is your boss, I you're interviewing 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.160 with one of. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:10.360 Them, one of I reviewed. I did phone screen with 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.600 the TA of the company. Then I did the interview 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.560 with my boss, who I work with closely, and then 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.679 I did a panel interview with some peers, some who 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:25.600 I may have worked with and some who I may 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:31.199 have not. And then the last round was with my 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.119 boss's boss, who equally knows me. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.119 Okay, you went through the ringer, m hm, and how 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.600 much time? Amazing. You know, I'm not really opposed to 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.920 asking about compensation during the interview process, especially if you're 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.320 an external candidate. I don't I don't like the feeling 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.199 of waiting until the final offer to find out what compensation. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.160 The fact of the matter is, I think that they 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.000 will go low in terms of the pay raise you 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.679 just got one. They'll use that as justification. Now I 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.119 need you to go in with your counter argument, which is, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.439 this is a new role. I've already been doing it 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.840 for free for how many months now. 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:13.560 At least like five six? 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.880 Oh lord, so for half a year I have been 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:21.080 doing the work of a director. I appreciate the title change, 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.480 and that's wonderful, But to fully step into this role 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.359 and feel confident that I'm being paid my market value 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.000 and that I am you know, that I'm being valued 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:33.440 equitable to what other companies or other organizations pay at 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:39.239 this level. I was expecting, or I am expecting, you know, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.720 a fair market rate, which based on my research is 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.359 one fifteen to one twenty or whatever you want to say. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:51.520 And if they you know at that point you want 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.119 to role play a little bit like you want to 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.280 for ten, who do you want to be? Do you 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:58.639 want to be you? Or do you want to be 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:03.000 the I don't know employer? You want to be the employer? Okay? 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:03.879 Me? 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.200 All right, I'm adorable. My name is Ray. Everyone loves me. Hi, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.920 just getting in your zone, getting in the vibe. All right? 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.640 So how would it be? Would it be a phone call? 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:23.320 Zoom like this? Yes, you in person are remote. 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.959 Well away from home. But I think, honestly, I think 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.680 they're gonna email me and maybe be presented in a call. 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:32.880 But I think they'll try to like email first, you. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.320 Know, let's really okay, I'm mad at that. Then okay, 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.280 so you get the email. So let's pretend Okay, I'm 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:44.359 Ray and I've just gotten this email and it's like, Ray, congratulations. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:45.080 What's that? 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.040 It's probably gonna come from talent acquisition. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.439 Right, and it's going to say, congratulations, we are happy 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.040 to inform me that you have been selected. I don't 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.760 know the languages you've gotten the job se see offer 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.040 details below. And then it will say let's say they 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.040 let's say it's no increase. Let's say they're like, we 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.840 just gave you a raise, here's your same salary. If 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.320 that's the case, I'm pissed. I'm right, and I'm pissed 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.840 because like, not y'all trying to get a steep, steep discount. 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.600 The thing is as if they're looking at external candidates, 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.320 which they likely are, right they've posted it externally. If 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.840 they're looking at external candidates, it's quite possible that those 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.359 external candidates are going to be more expensive than you 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.440 are because they are coming from other companies. And at 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.480 that point, your company knows what you're making. Your company 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.119 doesn't know what they're making. And I'm not saying that 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.280 they would be going for you because you are the 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:47.280 more affordable option. I'm sure they are choosing you because 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.520 or sorry, choosing me because I'm amazing. But that just 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.439 tells you off jump that they are trying to skate 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.880 by without paying the proper market rate. So if that's 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:04.280 an email, I'm stewing, I'm stewing, and then I'm replying, 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.280 and I'm going to ask for time timeframe, Oh for 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:14.720 how long I'm going to stew ten minutes? Not long, 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:16.399 because all you're going to do now is I was 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.120 send an email back and say thank you so much. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.000 I am thrilled. How quickly can make it on a 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.239 phone call to discuss the offer and where you can 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.280 say that however you want to take, I prefer to 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:31.880 do a compensation negotiation by phone. I think that you're 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.679 able to I'm all about vibes, right, and when you 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.480 come into a conversation with the right energy when you're 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.439 coming to them. And this is where as women we 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.040 have to like we do get penalized for being seen 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.800 as power hungry, money hungry, you know, ambitious, opportunistic, and 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:51.760 I believe in a phone call you're able to get 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.240 your tone as and it shouldn't be this way, but 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.359 this is a reality. I believe that we're able to 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.480 be really intentional with our tone and how we are perceived. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.800 You can be the same ray that they know and 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.400 that they you know, feel comfortable with, but you can 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.200 still get to the point of what you want, which 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.600