1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,159 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 2: I am the host of the brandan Mbision podcast Mandy 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: Windrif Santos, and I haven't done this since gosh. When 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: I first started to do coaching, I offered free sessions 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 2: on my ig Ooh, my microphone is all the way 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: over here. 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: Hello? Is that better? I got excited, gosh. I started 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: doing free sessions back in twenty twenty one. Ray, were 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: you one of those free sessions? I was stop, wow, 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: look at us now and look at her just showing 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: up for my freebies every time because we are back 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: at the time though I listen, I did. I had 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: two hundred people sign up to the Google form on 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: ig for free sessions. I think one hundred of them 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: actually ended up booking. And then for the next six 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: months I was doing those free sessions and I'm so 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: glad that, you know, I'm so glad that I did that, 18 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: and it was it was my way of figuring out, 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: like do I even like this? Am I even good 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: at this? And it kicked off my whole business. And 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: one of the things that happens when you're like listen 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: up kids and Ray, you know, because you got a 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: baby girl. One of the things that happens when you 24 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: go and have a baby or two and then you 25 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: have a business and you're trying to work on a 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: book and run a coaching community, is that you don't 27 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: have as much time to do one on one sessions anymore. 28 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: One It's not like and every business, like literally every 29 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: business coach will tell me, don't do free sessions. What 30 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: are you doing? You shouldn't even be trying to do 31 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: one on ones anymore. It should all be scalable, scale, scale, scale, 32 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: And I'm all for the scaling, but I'm also all 33 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: for staying in tune with what y'all are going through 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: in your work lives. Ray, I feel like you have 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: evolved so much since you first joined the Mandy money 36 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: Makers in twenty twenty one, twenty two, and I'm so 37 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: proud of you, and it just is I'm glad that 38 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: you were. You were so quick on the sign up 39 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: button for this free session. 40 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 3: Me too. I needed your advice because you're amazing and 41 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: I am acquin something. So I'm like I'm taking advantage 42 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: right now. 43 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: Sign yes, all right, Okay, So I mean just to 44 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: catch everybody up on Ray from what I'll tell you 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: what I what I know, which is that when you 46 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: joined you were working for a big retailer and you 47 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: were you weren't a recruiter, but you were like tangential 48 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: to the recruiting. You worked in like a software side, okay, 49 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: and then you gotcha and then you joined the Makers 50 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: and you wanted to You wanted to actually get into 51 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: a recruiting level up, level up, which you did, and 52 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: then that job was that the job where you got 53 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: the big First of all, you got into a recruiting 54 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: opportunity and then you got the big rays at that time. 55 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: So actually, let's back up a bit, right. So I 56 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: did the free coaching session, and you told me that 57 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 3: I wanted to do too many things at once, and. 58 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: Then I needed to it sounds like me. 59 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: Because I wanted to do a podcast, I wanted to 60 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: get a promotion, make more money, start a business, like 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: all the things you tell me. I needed to focus. 62 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 3: And then I'm like, okay, well I'm focusing on earning 63 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 3: more money because if I can earn more money, then 64 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: I can do more things, right. And so I did 65 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 3: your free session and then you offered your first cohort 66 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 3: of coaching. I did that and invested in myself to 67 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: do that, and that put me in a room around 68 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of boss babes, wonderful women working at 69 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 3: the Googles, the Microsoft's, all the things. And when one 70 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: of the sessions was like someone said, oh yeah, my 71 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: salary requirements is two seventy five a year, I was like, oh, 72 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: my aim is way too low, way too low. I 73 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: was barely making forty K that year. I think I 74 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 3: made it fifty K with two jobs. So that told 75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: you everything you needed to know. 76 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, you had two jobs. 77 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: I had bombed an interview. Do you remember that. 78 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Girl? Now we're doing let's not don't pop quizzes, but 79 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: I had. 80 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: I had a recruiting interview with him. 81 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: There was never a dull moment, That's what I remember. 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: There was never a. 83 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 3: Horrible I like bombed it, and I was so disappointed. 84 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: Was oh my gosh, like you know, but I kept going. 85 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: And then I landed a role that paid double salary. 86 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 3: Now you can pick up. 87 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: And that was a couple of years ago. And then 88 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: was there a layoff somewhere in there? 89 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 3: Ninety days into that new role. 90 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: I got laid off, Yes, and then you fired me 91 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: as your coach. 92 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 4: No, you did it now came back to my support community, 93 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 4: and I was like, I don't know what to do, 94 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 4: and you guys are like, take a minute, take a day, 95 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 4: take a couple. 96 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 3: It took like two days, and then I got on 97 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: LinkedIn and started all over. 98 00:04:53,520 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: With the title now of recruiter or whatever the title was, which, yeah, 99 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: was what got you? You know, you were able to 100 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: then get another role because you already had that title 101 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: even though it was only ninety days, right, And then 102 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: what happened, So it's a good story. 103 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I got laid off after ninety days 104 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: with that role. That was the first time in my 105 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: life I ever like could work one job and that 106 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 3: cover all my expenses, like all the things, right, and 107 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: I like just had made it and I had to 108 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 3: start back over. So I started back over, started interviewing 109 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 3: all the things. I had two opportunities. So my boss 110 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: at that previous company had also that had gotten laid 111 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: off two weeks after me. She circled the block because 112 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: I was such a great employee and wanted to bring 113 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: me back on to her new company that she had 114 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: just got a promotion or a role in as the 115 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 3: director of talent acquisition. And so I had that option 116 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 3: on the table, but it would have been starting off 117 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: as a contractor. My negotiation power was limited because she 118 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: knew what I made previously, so she only was offering 119 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: two K more. And then it kind of was like 120 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: a little bit of bad juju because the person that 121 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 3: she was replacing in the role didn't know they were 122 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 3: getting fired. 123 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: So even though it was a light lift, Oh so 124 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: you would have come in to someone who was getting fired. 125 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: Replacing the head who was getting fired, and they didn't 126 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 3: know yet. So when she brought me on, like what's 127 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 3: going to bring me on? I only had an interview once, 128 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 3: but it would have been contracted because she needs to 129 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 3: get in, get her feet wet, and then transfer me 130 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 3: to PERM and I just didn't know what that would 131 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: look like and my negotiation power was limited. So then 132 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 3: I had this other opportunity on the table, and it 133 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: was working for a nonprofit doing amazing work like great mission, 134 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: and I was able to negotiate a twelve K bomb. 135 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: From what you were making at the other firm that 136 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: laid you off. Yes, amazing chef's cass. Okay, but bring 137 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: up now we're here today and now you are angling 138 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: for promotion. 139 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: Yes, So fast forward two and a half years, I 140 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: am now up. Well, the caveat to this whole story 141 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: is that I am currently interviewing and have gone through 142 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: the final rounds of interviews for this director level role 143 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: I'm currently I started out as a manager. So in 144 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: the midst of interviewing for this director level role, I 145 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 3: get notified that I got a promotion to be senior 146 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: manager and I'm like, so we're just getting promotions before 147 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: the second promotion to promotions and what could ask So 148 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: this would. 149 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: Have been two steps up because at your firm, it's 150 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: like you're what a manager now and then senior and 151 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: then director. 152 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: No, so it's like they make it's like levels of creativity. 153 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: So listen, a lot of places are like that. It 154 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: can be good for So. 155 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: Depending on what you're on one, yeah, it could be manager, 156 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: senior manager, associate director, director, senior director. And this is 157 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: a director role. Not every team has a senior manager 158 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 3: level or an associated director level. So I'm going from 159 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: what I thought was a manager to a director, but 160 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: now it's senior manager to director. 161 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Okay, got it. And so that promotion went through when 162 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: so I. 163 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: Just went through the final rounds of interviews, So we 164 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: are putting in manifesting that I get the promotion and 165 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: just preparing for that negotiation conversation. 166 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: Oh, to clarify, I meant the promotion that you found 167 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: out about while you were interviewing. 168 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: Oh, that one went into effect at the end of January. 169 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: Okay, and you've already been in the interview, so you've 170 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: been interviewing to be on the same team. But take 171 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: that director role. 172 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 3: Yes, And news is that I've already stepped up in 173 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: that position because we were short staff so there was 174 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 3: an expectation to do that role. Prior to me going out, 175 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: I had a baby going out on leave, like, hey, 176 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 3: we need to step up here. Okay, I'll step up. 177 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: Then I came back from leave and continued in that 178 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: same vein leading partnerships because we were still short staffed, 179 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: and then we were able to, like a couple months 180 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: after that, bring on team members, help train them, transition them, 181 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 3: and then go back to my normal role. 182 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: Okay, alrighty, So heading into this internal role, you're hoping 183 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: you'll get an offer, and your question is how do 184 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: I negotiate more? 185 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: Right, Because I've done a little bit of research as 186 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 3: it pertains to like previous employees or like people who 187 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: may have been in the role on the team and 188 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: know like what the salary was. 189 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: Around reading between the lines. That means that you asked 190 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: other people right what they were earning. I love that. 191 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: And no, that's just perfect. And Hi to everybody who's 192 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: tuning in online. I see Annas in the chat right now. 193 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: Hi Anna, if you're here, tune in, say hello, Hi. 194 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: Go ahead. 195 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I asked, and I have like a general 196 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 3: understanding of what the role would start at, but no 197 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: great information. 198 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: And how far apart is that from what you're earning now? 199 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 3: It's like a fifteen K or more bomb. 200 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: It's not terrible, that's not that much. I mean, it's 201 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like a fifty K bump, you know. 202 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: I know it's quick, quick math, but do you know 203 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: what the percentages? Like what percentage raise that might be. 204 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 3: I can do the math really quick. 205 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: If it's less than fifteen percent, you can just say 206 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: that you gotta put all your business out there. But 207 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: if it's less than fifteen, and certainly it's less than ten, 208 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: there's usually like that much wiggle room in a compensation budget. 209 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: Okay, so it'll be about starting around fifteen percent bump 210 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: and more okay where I land in that range, but 211 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 3: that's assuming that's the starting range. 212 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: Second question, when you were promoted in January, did you 213 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: get a bump then. 214 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: Yes, six percent from where I was previously? Well, because 215 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: there was a two and a half percent annual and 216 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: then six percent on top of that, so technically eight and. 217 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: A half okay, and then oktcha. 218 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: Now this will be an additional fifteen. 219 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: If you get what you want right. 220 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's like should I even see? This 221 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 3: is where the anxiety and all the things come in, because. 222 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: It's like, no ask the question. Can I even ask. 223 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 3: That audacious to like want another fifteen percent? Should I 224 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 3: take the ten percent? If they've lowered the range? Like 225 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: where do I come in at that? So I'm trying 226 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 3: to like that's why I need you for it? It like 227 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: help me with this confidence. 228 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: And then well you're in. It's interesting because so yesterday's 229 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: a lunch and level up with Lakeisha and Lakeisha is 230 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: also in a situation where she is at her current firm. 231 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: She uh has taken on a new role and they 232 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: have said this is a lateral move, so no raise 233 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: for you here's your three percent annual inflation whatever. And 234 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 1: she's a little bit you know, stuck at that, and 235 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: she knows that she should be making more. And in 236 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: your situation, it's it's you have a bit more going 237 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: for you, which is that you were recently promoted. They 238 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: love you. You've been doing the job already, right, they 239 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: really like you. You've been there for two and a 240 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: half years, right, something like that. And I mean, listen, 241 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: nothing is going to give you as much leverage as 242 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: a competing offer that you can put in front of them, 243 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: like cold hard fact. I have been offered, you know, 244 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: let's say it's one twenty, that's what you're aiming for. 245 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: I've been offered one twenty at this firm. I would 246 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: love to stay, but can you match that comp Can 247 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: you match me at the compensation? And then it's an 248 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:09,599 Speaker 1: easy decision. Happy to stay. Heyba fam, we got to 249 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: take a quick break, pay some bills and we'll be 250 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: right back. However, your market research is still completely I mean, 251 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: and by market research, you know, getting that information from 252 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: former colleagues and kind of looking at the job market 253 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: other comparable titles, and have you done any work to 254 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: kind of see what other ranges are online? Or has 255 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: this job even posted online? And do they have a 256 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: rage range listed with the job description? 257 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 3: They did not have a range list, but they did 258 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: post externally. 259 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So failing that, I would say you. 260 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 3: Can about nonprofit sector as well, because that's always the 261 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 3: caveat is always like or the understanding is that you're 262 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 3: not ever going to get industry standard Rates's. 263 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: See, they benefit from that, you know. How do you 264 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: know how I feel about nonprofits? I feel like I've 265 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: said it a lot, but nonprofits to me are the 266 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: fact that it's a nonprofit. I don't nego. I don't 267 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: recommend anyone negotiates any differently for a nonprofit versus a 268 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: for profit, because if you look at the nuts and 269 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: bolts of it, they are the same. Like the tax 270 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: structure is different, right, there's tax benefits as a non well, shit, 271 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: there's there's tax benefits for for profits too. They're very similar, right, 272 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: talk about how much taxes is Amazon paid Jeff Bezos 273 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: zero datas, Let's just go buy more Amazon trucks and 274 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: you know that'll decrease our taxable income. I digress. Nonprofits 275 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: do get away in the same way that I think 276 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: government jobs, teachers, even like healthcare jobs to a certain extent, 277 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: get away with this sense of like moral compensation, like 278 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: you're doing good work here, we're a nonprofit so and 279 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: they have this aura and then this myth kind of 280 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: proliferates about there's not that much budget and oh, da 281 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: da da, you know, like we can't afford to pay 282 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: certain things. Come work for us and feel good about yourself. 283 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: But the thing is they can be just as toxic 284 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: as regular jobs. They can be disorganized, they can be capitalistic. 285 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: They got to raise money, right, So I just not 286 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: to harp on that too much, but I just want 287 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: to change mindset around what nonprofits can afford. And at 288 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: the end of the day, they're like any other company, 289 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: and if they really want to keep talent, they'll keep talent. 290 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: And even if they have to post their you know, 291 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: salaries to what's that document called that nonprofits have to file. 292 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know what the name of it. 293 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: Some tax form. Yeah, they may have like they may 294 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: need to post that and whatnot. But I'm just saying 295 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: I want you to walk in there not thinking about 296 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: it's a nonprofit, they probably can't afford this, and just 297 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: go in based on what you're worth, you know, so 298 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: based on what you've learned so far. And oh yeah, 299 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: that's what I was going to say, any data research 300 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: into comparable roles, like in the same industry, have you 301 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: looked on glass or other job listings. You're doing it 302 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: right now, that's fine, let's do it. 303 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: The hard car two is that even though it would 304 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 3: be a director position, it's still an individual contributor. 305 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: Okay. So some people would say that's great. 306 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, many people the average salary would be that fifteen percent. 307 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So you feel like you're in the right yeah, 308 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: the right marketplace. And so far in your interviews, has 309 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: compensation come up? No, so you're expecting what like when 310 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: you get the offer, we'll just manifest that that then 311 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: you'll have a conversation about comp right, okay. And at 312 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: that point, and this is your boss, I you're interviewing 313 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: with one of. 314 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 3: Them, one of I reviewed. I did phone screen with 315 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 3: the TA of the company. Then I did the interview 316 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 3: with my boss, who I work with closely, and then 317 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 3: I did a panel interview with some peers, some who 318 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 3: I may have worked with and some who I may 319 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 3: have not. And then the last round was with my 320 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 3: boss's boss, who equally knows me. 321 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: Okay, you went through the ringer, m hm, and how 322 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: much time? Amazing. You know, I'm not really opposed to 323 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: asking about compensation during the interview process, especially if you're 324 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: an external candidate. I don't I don't like the feeling 325 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: of waiting until the final offer to find out what compensation. 326 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is, I think that they 327 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: will go low in terms of the pay raise you 328 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: just got one. They'll use that as justification. Now I 329 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: need you to go in with your counter argument, which is, 330 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: this is a new role. I've already been doing it 331 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: for free for how many months now. 332 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 3: At least like five six? 333 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: Oh lord, so for half a year I have been 334 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: doing the work of a director. I appreciate the title change, 335 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: and that's wonderful, But to fully step into this role 336 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: and feel confident that I'm being paid my market value 337 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: and that I am you know, that I'm being valued 338 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: equitable to what other companies or other organizations pay at 339 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,239 Speaker 1: this level. I was expecting, or I am expecting, you know, 340 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: a fair market rate, which based on my research is 341 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: one fifteen to one twenty or whatever you want to say. 342 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: And if they you know at that point you want 343 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: to role play a little bit like you want to 344 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: for ten, who do you want to be? Do you 345 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: want to be you? Or do you want to be 346 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the I don't know employer? You want to be the employer? Okay? 347 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: Me? 348 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: All right, I'm adorable. My name is Ray. Everyone loves me. Hi, 349 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: just getting in your zone, getting in the vibe. All right? 350 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: So how would it be? Would it be a phone call? 351 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: Zoom like this? Yes, you in person are remote. 352 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,959 Speaker 3: Well away from home. But I think, honestly, I think 353 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 3: they're gonna email me and maybe be presented in a call. 354 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 3: But I think they'll try to like email first, you. 355 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: Know, let's really okay, I'm mad at that. Then okay, 356 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: so you get the email. So let's pretend Okay, I'm 357 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: Ray and I've just gotten this email and it's like, Ray, congratulations. 358 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: What's that? 359 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 3: It's probably gonna come from talent acquisition. 360 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: Right, and it's going to say, congratulations, we are happy 361 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: to inform me that you have been selected. I don't 362 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: know the languages you've gotten the job se see offer 363 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: details below. And then it will say let's say they 364 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: let's say it's no increase. Let's say they're like, we 365 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: just gave you a raise, here's your same salary. If 366 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: that's the case, I'm pissed. I'm right, and I'm pissed 367 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: because like, not y'all trying to get a steep, steep discount. 368 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: The thing is as if they're looking at external candidates, 369 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: which they likely are, right they've posted it externally. If 370 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: they're looking at external candidates, it's quite possible that those 371 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: external candidates are going to be more expensive than you 372 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: are because they are coming from other companies. And at 373 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: that point, your company knows what you're making. Your company 374 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: doesn't know what they're making. And I'm not saying that 375 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: they would be going for you because you are the 376 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: more affordable option. I'm sure they are choosing you because 377 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: or sorry, choosing me because I'm amazing. But that just 378 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: tells you off jump that they are trying to skate 379 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: by without paying the proper market rate. So if that's 380 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: an email, I'm stewing, I'm stewing, and then I'm replying, 381 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: and I'm going to ask for time timeframe, Oh for 382 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: how long I'm going to stew ten minutes? Not long, 383 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: because all you're going to do now is I was 384 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: send an email back and say thank you so much. 385 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: I am thrilled. How quickly can make it on a 386 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,239 Speaker 1: phone call to discuss the offer and where you can 387 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: say that however you want to take, I prefer to 388 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: do a compensation negotiation by phone. I think that you're 389 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: able to I'm all about vibes, right, and when you 390 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: come into a conversation with the right energy when you're 391 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: coming to them. And this is where as women we 392 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: have to like we do get penalized for being seen 393 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: as power hungry, money hungry, you know, ambitious, opportunistic, and 394 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: I believe in a phone call you're able to get 395 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: your tone as and it shouldn't be this way, but 396 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: this is a reality. I believe that we're able to 397 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: be really intentional with our tone and how we are perceived. 398 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: You can be the same ray that they know and 399 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: that they you know, feel comfortable with, but you can 400 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: still get to the point of what you want, which 401 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: is I'm still ray. I'm still this And by the way, 402 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: the offer to me is low compared to the market 403 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: research I've done to better understand the value of this role. 404 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: And I want to know, is it possible that you 405 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: can meet me at the market range, which is one 406 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: fifteen to one twenty. You've got them on the phone. 407 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: At that point, we're not really role playing anymore. Should 408 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: we should we go into role play? 409 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, But one caveat that you can use as a 410 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 3: tool in your toolkit is that I'm pretty sure my 411 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 3: peers in the same position would be making more so 412 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 3: maybe that is not. 413 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: In the same position. So your current colleagues and other 414 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: like on. 415 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 3: The same team director level colleagues. So I don't know 416 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 3: how you would be able to pull that information in. 417 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: But but oh gotcha, I wouldn't like I at this point. 418 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: I not that there's anything wrong with you getting that 419 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: information from current employees. There's nothing wrong with that, But I. 420 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 3: Feel like denying if I got that. 421 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: No, you're gonna say based on my based on my 422 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: own research from trusted sources as well as you know, 423 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: general market research, like and you can have some examples, 424 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: like you can pull up that glass store as an example. 425 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: You can pull up comparable job titles like literally job descriptions. 426 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: You know, they have to publish salary ranges in other states, 427 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: So New York, I know that you're you're in You're 428 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: in the South, and they may write or no, you're 429 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: back up in the Pennsylvania. That's right, Pennsylvania, so even 430 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: better because New York is not that far so they 431 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: can't pull the hole. That's New York. But you could 432 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: get a couple of salaries and have that as your 433 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: market research plus glass store and just have it in 434 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: your back pocket in case they asked to see it, 435 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: which I don't think. I don't know if they will 436 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: or not, but anyway, you know that. And the reason 437 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: I'm like being a bit cautious there is because it 438 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: goes back to like the tone and the feeling you, 439 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: at least in my experience, you get more flies with 440 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: honey in a way, and you don't want to put 441 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: them on like the defensive defensive and start making them 442 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: feel paranoid about well, who she's spoken to? Was it 443 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: so and so? Was it so and so? And also 444 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: there may be not that I'm saying it's justifiable. There 445 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: may be different circumstances to why those colleagues are earning 446 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: a certain amount, And if you bring them up, then 447 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: it's very easy for them to just like, you know, 448 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: dismiss that with like a couple of excuses, Oh so 449 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: and so it's been here longer. Oh so, and so 450 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: you know, excuse me, it's a unique case. They came 451 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: from a different company, they have this many years of experience, 452 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: they have this certification, and then they start like, you know, 453 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: like nitpicking, and next thing you know, you haven't really 454 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: gotten anywhere. So I would keep it broad. 455 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 3: So based on what I say, let's have the conversation. 456 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break. Hey, 457 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: some bills and we'll be right back. Welcome back, be 458 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: a fan, Let's get back to the show. Okay, So 459 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: this is the call that you get on the phone 460 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: after the offer comes through email. Okay, Hey George, George Georgia. 461 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, hi, Dogeri, how are you doing? 462 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: Damn this I was today years old when I knew 463 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: you pronounced it dogeray. 464 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: I think I told you on that first free session 465 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 3: and then never came up a game. 466 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: Well, it's always right to me. We're cool like that. 467 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: It's right, okay, all right, Hey, it's so listen. I'm 468 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: so excited. I can't believe it. I can't wait. I've 469 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: been doing this job for six months. It just feels 470 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: so right to me. I mean, what was the feedback 471 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: from the team from the interview process. 472 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 3: The team had nothing but great things to say about you. 473 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 3: They said that, you know, you're a great contributor on 474 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: the team already, you already have experience being successful within 475 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: that rule and those responsibilities, and they're just super super 476 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 3: excited to like, have you join within this new capacity. 477 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, I again, I'm really excited. I've I'm 478 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: so passionate about the work. I mean, I'm glad to 479 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: hear that they have acknowledged and seen how hard I've 480 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: been working for the past you know, five six months, 481 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: and this just feels like such a great next up 482 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: for me. So I, yeah, I would love to accept, 483 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: but before I get there, I want to chat about 484 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: the offer. So I saw the offer come through, and 485 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: I and we're going to assume that it's we're keeping 486 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: the compensations the same, Okay. So I have to admit 487 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: I was a little bit surprised and taking it back 488 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: by the compensation offer, you know, the for the for 489 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: the level of work that I'd be doing in this 490 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: role and the fact that I've been already been doing 491 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: it for you know, five six months now, and honestly 492 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: based on the market research that I've done for a 493 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: director level position in our field at comparable organizations incomparable roles, 494 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: this is far below the market rate for this position. 495 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: And I, with all due respect, like, I am so 496 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: excited for this role. I want to I want to 497 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: take it on. I want to keep this momentum going. 498 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: But I don't really feel settled. I don't really feel 499 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: good about, you know, moving forward if I don't feel 500 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: like I am being paid commensurate with my market rate. 501 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: So is there anything you can do to get me 502 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: closer to the market range, which based on my research 503 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: is about one fifteen to one. 504 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you so much. 505 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: So that's a yes, thank you. Bye, I'm just kidding, 506 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: don't do that. You can do that depends on your rapport. 507 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: I like cracking a joke. 508 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 3: So yeah, we can definitely take it back to the 509 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 3: team and see, you know, what is possible based on 510 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 3: the budget and so forth, and I can get back 511 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 3: to you. 512 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: I can, okay, yeah, I really appreciate response. You'll get 513 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: back to you, and then they'll go, do do you 514 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: think in that case? I was expecting you to almost 515 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: push back and say, well, you know, given the fact 516 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: that you were recently promoted, we thought that keeping you 517 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: at this level was fair for now, and then we 518 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: could look at we could look at potentially increasing that, 519 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: getting you closer to that, you know, your goal, your 520 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: target compensation goal, maybe in a year. 521 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: So if they said that, what would you say. 522 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: That's okay, Well, now I'm playing both roles, that's fine, 523 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: I'm used to it, I would say, I, yeah, I 524 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: completely understand, And honestly I was thrilled, and yeah, pleasantly 525 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised. I want to say surprised. I was. 526 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: I was really pleased, surprised. 527 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 3: Surprise, yes, but really I. 528 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: Was actually you know, I yeah, I was surprised and 529 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: pleasantly so that I received that promotion in Jenny. But 530 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is that I have been 531 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: doing the director level position responsibilities and duties for five 532 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: months now, and so leaving aside the reason promotion, I 533 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: think bringing me up to that director level title and 534 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: compensation that has always been my long term goal. I 535 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: feel like it is what I you know, am, That's 536 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: how I should be valued. And I think it absolutely 537 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: reflects the amount of goodwill that I've had, you know, 538 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: showing up and putting my all into this role for 539 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: the last five months, even though I was, you know, 540 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: doing the work of an individual a couple of levels 541 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: and certainly a higher compensation level than I am, And 542 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: to wait a year, it just doesn't feel like that 543 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: really is reflecting the value I've already brought and the 544 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: value I'll continue to bring for the next year. 545 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: Okay, well we'll take that back to the team and 546 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 3: I'll get back. 547 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: Okay, you look good. Did you something with your hair? 548 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: This is different? 549 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 4: High? 550 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm high. 551 00:29:54,400 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Your teeth whitened? How are the kids? You want to 552 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: put a picture of your baby up in the background? 553 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 5: Just you know, Oh yeah, I'm prepared to, like, you know, 554 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 5: reiterate value contributed in future value. 555 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 3: That is clear. But I'm still, like, you know, just 556 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 3: a little antsy about it. 557 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: A good problem to have, That's a good problem to have. 558 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Like, who gets multiple promotions within one quarter? Like, 559 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 3: you know, who's catching up? So is catching up? 560 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: I think you've done so well for yourself, I really do. 561 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of other, you know, other potential outcomes. 562 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: So I mean, how do you feel about the responding 563 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: to an email asking for a phone call? Do you 564 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: think they'll do that? 565 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 3: I'm hoping say better. 566 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: I just think it's so much better on the phone. 567 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 3: Especially when you have because usually offers are given on 568 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 3: the phone. Now that I think about it, that you 569 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 3: we call like hey, just letting you know that we 570 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 3: would like to extend the offer. Yeah, here's now. What 571 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 3: do you think as far as negotiations of other items 572 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 3: within the benefits package? So? 573 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: Oh, good call? What what else do you have going 574 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: on there? 575 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: What else they got PTO? 576 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: Okay? What what PTO do you have? 577 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 3: Like number of days like four weeks? Okay, So I 578 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 3: don't know if that'll bump or not, but just you know, 579 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's something to include if they like, 580 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 3: don't come all the way with the salary? Should we 581 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 3: talk one time bonuses like all that? 582 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: So when you got your promotion, did your annual target bonus? 583 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: Do you still to the percentage target bonus? Oh you 584 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: don't Okay, no bonus at all? Okay. 585 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 3: I know, like thinking about negotiations from the external side 586 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 3: of things, you can like bring those items in. So 587 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 3: I just didn't know from an internal stance, like what 588 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 3: can you use? 589 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: Well, you have you have a leg up here because 590 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: you already know what packages look like right. I mean, also, 591 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: you're in the recruiting space, do you have line of 592 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: sight into other candidates offers at all? No? Okay, I 593 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: mean not candidates for this role, but in general no. 594 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: So so compensation package, I think you have to decide 595 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: what's your end goal. I think for you it's the cash, right, 596 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: Like you want the when you think of total compensation 597 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: and you're thinking of one to fifteen one fifteen base 598 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: is what you're thinking, right, m So I would make 599 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: that clear. Now, they don't offer annual bonuses, so I 600 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: don't know how they would make anything up with a bonus. 601 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: They could do potentially a spot bonus. You have they 602 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: done that before? Have you heard about other people getting it. 603 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 5: For like performance evaluation type situations and like that. 604 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: That's what I thought, Maybe that could be a potential. 605 00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: Oh that's good. So you don't have like a set 606 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: percentage that you are on target to earn like in 607 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: terms of a bonus. But they are known to do 608 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: it if it's been a good they're a good performer, 609 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: and there's money in the the bank for that. Okay, Yeah, 610 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: I mean they could make up any gap. Like so, 611 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: let's say they're a hard line like, no, this is 612 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: the salary approved for the role for this year, which 613 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: does me doesn't make any sense because if they were 614 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: trying to hire someone outside, they would have to have 615 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: a budget big enough to meet that market rate. You know, so, 616 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: but anyway, let's just say they're like, no, this is 617 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: the final Then you could say, then you could yes, 618 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: you could counter and ask for a one time bonus 619 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: to close the gap, and then let's revisit it in 620 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, the next review cycle. 621 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: And do you get that in writing, like the whole 622 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 3: revisit review cycle piece, or do you just faces in writing. 623 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if they could put that in writing, Yeah, 624 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: you could. 625 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: So. 626 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: They probably won't put it in the in the email 627 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: or your employee contract, but you could get them to 628 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: say it in an email. You could be like, well, 629 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: does this all can? I just wanted to clarify I 630 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: will be able to like, there's an understanding that you know, 631 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: next review review cycle compensation will be a compensation increase 632 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: a market rate increase rather a market rate increase will 633 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: be on the table or up for discussion. Then you 634 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: can have them say that in an email. 635 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I guess we'll there go, So what happens. 636 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 3: I'm expecting to hear something maybe in a week or so. 637 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: I could use a good negotiation outcome. You've been good 638 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 1: to me so far. You always have like a nice update. 639 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: Even when you're down, you're up at the end of 640 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: the day, you know, down in a market like this, 641 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: I just want other people to know that it's still 642 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: possible to negotiate. And I think the challenge is, like 643 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: you said, it's that nerves. It's do I do I 644 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: have the audacity? Should I be asking for this? But 645 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: hell yes? I mean you know, based on your own research, 646 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: what you're earning now is not the market rate for 647 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: the job you will be doing. And so what if 648 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: you're not managing people? The level of expectation, the visibility 649 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: within the company, the demand for your role like that 650 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: should be what comes to the forefront, not how many 651 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: people are you managing. Yeah, I'm good luck, Girly, thank you, 652 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: and thank y'all for tuning in, and Ray, thank you 653 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: for joining me. Good luck girl. I'm so excited. 654 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 3: Heyb a fam, What name is Zoo and my mama? 655 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 3: Ha a update? 656 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: That's right, Rio, Hey ba fam, I'm back with a 657 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: quick update on this week's QA from Ray, I am 658 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: so excited, y'all. I'm gonna let her fill y'all in 659 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: on her job update, and I'm going to go back 660 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 1: to enjoying my spring break quote unquote vacation with my 661 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: children on a road trip to Atlanta. Bye him, Mandy. 662 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: I am thrilled to share some life changing news. I 663 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 3: just accepted the director's talent placement role and get this, 664 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 3: it was a twenty five K bump in my salary, 665 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 3: Like I cannot believe it. I'm ecstatic. I thank God 666 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 3: for just bringing me here and just allowing all of 667 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 3: the things that you've taught us through the Maker's Community, 668 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 3: leveraging my own recruiter experience, and really just doing the thing, 669 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 3: Like can you believe? Just three years ago, I felt 670 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 3: like I was stuck on my hamster wheel, barely making 671 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 3: fifty K, working two jobs, feeling overworked, underpaid, overwhelmed. And 672 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 3: then you know, you just fast forward joining the Maker's Community, 673 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 3: and now in three years, I have tripled my income, 674 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 3: purchased my first home, and just well on my way 675 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: to achieving financial freedom and multi generational wealth. And I 676 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 3: wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you, Mandy and 677 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 3: the Maker's community. So just thank you so much for 678 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 3: the support and the encouragement and the space to show 679 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 3: up and be heard and seen, regardless of what was 680 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 3: going on in my life at that time. So just 681 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 3: thank you, thank you, thank you. And this is just 682 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 3: the beginning. I know more is coming and I just 683 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 3: can't wait to just share all of the great news. 684 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: Have a wonderful day, okayva fan, thank you so much 685 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: for listening to this week's show. I want to shout 686 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our 687 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to 688 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for 689 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: helping me put the show together. It is not a 690 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: one person project, as much as I have tried to 691 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all, 692 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: and thank Goodness been able to put this team around 693 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 1: me to support me on this journey. And to y'all, 694 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: ba fam, I love you so so so so much. 695 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to 696 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes. 697 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: Our tenth year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time, 698 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: talk to you soon via bye.